What is Tim Burton’s damage?

Johnny Depp.

Is Johnny Depp responsible for Burton’s decline?

Does TB have vices? What is his deal? Just a huge aspie?

When become rich, you lose your touch. He is surrounded by yes men. Nobody will tell him his shit stinks.

He hasn't grown as a filmmaker. He started making weird and whimsical films when he was a young maverick, and he's still at it 30-odd years later. He hasn't matured or expanded his vision.

I think his association with Depp was bad for them both. Burton relied on Depp's name to get his scripts greenlit, no matter how weak they are, and Burton allowed Depp to give lazy performances based on makeup rather than characterization. Together, they've gotten lazier and less mature as they've aged.

His relationship with the edwardian poster girl was weird.

I’ve semi-shared this before but Tim Burton did something on a for a dear friend’s son that was so kind and life-changing that I will always praise him to the heavens. He is a decent, decent person.

He really hasn't done a film since Dumbo (2019) and has a series (Wednesday) coming out and Beetlejuice 2 is in the works.

I don't buy the "all his shit stinks since JD" crap that's going round, around here. YES- Willy Wonka was bad. I actually liked the Alices, and Big Eyes was good too.

Don't drag Tim into the Johnny Depp shithole along with him. Tim has done some great, great work.

Sorry, I’m sure he is kind. But I will never forgive him for that Planet of Apes remake with Marky Mark. 💩💩💩

I stopped watching his films after Sleepy Hollow- which I thought was good but I was simply done with Tim Burton.

A friend insists that Big Fish is very good. I’m curious what DLers think of that one.

I think he got too green screen and it hurt his creativity.

"Big Fish" is a moderately good movie, but it's very much the same sort of whimsy as most other Tim Burton movies.

BIG FISH is best with the scenes involving Finney and Lange. The rest was very uneven.

I thought ALICE was dreadful and let's not forget that stinker DARK SHADOWS.

Big Fish is Deppless, which is why it’s a decent film. None of his half-witted creative choices tarnished it. I’m pretty sure Depp is responsible for the Mad Hatter’s embarrassing “hip hop” dance, and for turning Willy Wonka into a cross between Michael Jackson and Carol Channing.

He became full of himself. I really like "Sweeny Todd" though.

Burton was an animator and artist. He had a unique vision and style. Enjoys being a big film director and making movies. Zero interest in screenplays. Freely admits he hates to read. You can tell a TON about a Hollywood filmmaker not just by the films they make but the projects they attach themselves to. Lets put it this way, there haven't been a lot of amazing screenplays that Burton was attached to that didn't get made.

He looks like a basset hound in that picture upthread.

I think Planet of the Apes was where he veered off course.

I mean, a remake? Tim Burton doing a remake? In the late 90s when the film was announced, it seemed like such a bizarre idea. Tim Burton was such an original director, but suddenly he was doing a remake. How uninspired.

I'll always love Mars Attacks!

I enjoy the Burton-Depp-Helena Bonham Carter collaborations. I enjoyed Dark Shadows too. What was wrong with it? It was just a fun movie inspired by the TV series and Depp was hot as Barnabas.

He's played out.

The schtick works when it works. Like Mel Brooks. But, eventually....

I enjoyed their collaboration's too R20. Nothing was wrong with Dark Shadows. It was a fun movie and as a kid I always watched DS.

I haven’t watch this yet, but it came out a few days ago.

I grew tired of his work because it's so shallow. Usually it's visually stunning, but completely empty. And sometimes the scripts he chooses are just plain bad

I think Burton would be a fantastic Art Director, though.

Yes, I think so too^^

Often filmmakers run out of creative steam as time rolls on. Tim Burton is a textbook case.

Before XM turned into crap, they used to hold extended interviews with artists about the technical aspects of films rather than the typical celebrity claptrap ("it must have been a DREAM to work with Brad & George!"). In an interview with Danny Elfman, he talked about a falling out with Burton and how they didn't just stop working together, they stopped speaking to each other. I can't remember the gist of the interview, but if I recall, it was something like "he was doing the same thing over & over again, I didn't want to do it anymore, so at some point I just gave up & walked away."

So I guess I can see how Burton developed a machine for cranking out middlebrow, but profitable work but just eventually got stale & lost his touch.

I like Sleepy Hollow, but too much of the movie is in front of a green screen and you can tell on newer TVs. I wonder if his movies would've held up if he knocked off the razzle dazzle and had a better script shot on location

I loved SWEENEY TODD. I know folks in these parts like to shit on the singing (or lack thereof), but I think it all worked as a piece. And unlike most of his other films, the musical had a bolt solid construction that didn't allow for his usual narrative meanderings. The story worked, first and foremost, and it forced discipline upon him.

Sweeny worked because Burton didn't write it. Had he started from scratch about a lovelorn butcher who made people into meatpies, it wouldn't have worked -- at all. As previously noted, Burton's visual work is where he excells and even mesmerizes. But, the quality has to start with the project he chooses otherwise his work might as well be Halloween decorations in his front yard.

Edward Scissorhands is a masterpiece and was not as shallow in its meaning as some of his films.

He’s done some stinkers and some good movies—it’s a mixed bag.

But some of the criticism seems valid. How long can you make slick goth-y type movies? And CGI doesn’t seem to work as well for that genre. The Alice in Wonderlands were just trippy and weird and seemed unnecessary, while Sleepy Hollow worked a bit better but did rely on CGI too much for the forest scenes, etc.

Ed Wood is his best film, and probably Depp’s as well. But that one also wasn’t written by Burton.

Beetlejuice and Pee Wee’s Big Adventure are still wonderful.