THEATRE GOSSIP #499: The Endless Bitching About Diverse Casting Edition

Previous thread (full of the aforementioned bitching):

Uggh. You didn't need to ENCOURAGE the race-baiting, OP. Jeez.

In other, happier news...

Mea culpa. Not my intention, but I can see where it will likely be the end result. (That idiocy at the end of the last thread got to me too much. Sigh.)

As a friend used to say, "I'd hate to be hanging by my thumbs since that picture (of K&E) was taken."

It's great Tom Kirdahy is using his millions to develop project on Broadway people actually WANT TO SEE.

Are all the Raisin In The Sun reviews tiptoeing around the truth that this production just sucks? Like Death Of A Salesman?

Who's got an invite for tonight's Gala at the Geffen?

Insofar as colorblind casting, August Wilson had the right idea. WHY??????

Why what?

"Leopoldstadt is two hours and ten minutes long without an intermission?!?!?!?

That's ridiculous!

And, inhumane!

HaHa, "Act 1 of "A Little Life" is two hours and ten mintues, with another two hours to go in Act 2, following an intermission to allow a change of Depaends.

[quote](That idiocy at the end of the last thread got to me too much. Sigh.)

Please identify said idiocy with specifics.

I wonder if New York, New York is the musical alluded to in the last thread in which producers insisted the leads be cast for talent and name value and not skin color? With a budget of $25,000,000 I don't blame them.

r11, Per your request, please see r594 in the previous thread: "The late 2010s and early 2020s will be remembered as a Dark Age for the arts (film, television, theater) because of Woke Culture, which disregards talent and hard work in favor of racial/gender/whatever quotas."

[quote][R11], Per your request, please see [R594] in the previous thread: "The late 2010s and early 2020s will be remembered as a Dark Age for the arts (film, television, theater) because of Woke Culture, which disregards talent and hard work in favor of racial/gender/whatever quotas."

Thank you for clarifying that. I did not make that declaration, but I would amend it to say Woke culture inspired needed changes in programming and casting and, for a while, in the early 2020's the entertainment business prioritized racial and gender identity above talent and work history. That time is passing, and necessary and balanced reforms will remain while the idiocy drops away. Much in the same way beneficiaries of nepotism will get opportunities they never would have even been seen for without familial business connections, tend to stop getting them after a certain point unless they have met the moment

If that once rumored/announced Death of A Salesman starring Lane and Metcalf actually made it to Broadway I think it would have been a box office smash. This current production just doesn’t have Star power.

[quote]Woke culture inspired needed changes in programming and casting and, for a while, in the early 2020's the entertainment business prioritized racial and gender identity above talent and work history. That time is passing, and necessary and balanced reforms will remain while the idiocy drops away.

Let's hope so.

Ladies we have a New (Noup?) Coup De Théâtre

From the NYT Raisin review

[quote] It’s a haunting image that suggests the way the father’s hopes, and perhaps his failures, may be borne into the future — a future O’Hara and the scenic designer, Clint Ramos, literalize in a devastating coup de théâtre at the end.

And a dream Skipper redux

[quote] he transfers some of the dialogue normally assigned to Lena to the ghost of her husband, who wanders atmospherically in and out of the action, looking unmoored.

[quote]the ghost of her husband, who wanders atmospherically in and out of the action, looking unmoored.

As one would.

I think Some Like It Hot will be a test. Once it becomes widely known that the Marilyn Monroe character is being played by a Black woman then some older would-be theatregoers will give it a pass.

GO WOKE, GO BROKE.

[quote]As a friend used to say, "I'd hate to be hanging by my thumbs since that picture (of K&E) was taken."

What does that mean?

[quote]Once it becomes widely known that the Marilyn Monroe character is being played by a Black woman

Will they be calling her "Brown Sugar?"

It obviously means that the photo was taken some time ago, r22.

Umm, R22, it means that the photo is really old. Sorry if the sarcasm went way over your pointy head.

I don't get the "hanging by my thumbs" reference, though.

You can change that to something equally unpleasant, r26.

Oh, he was talking about literally hanging by his thumbs.

I thought it was metaphorical. haha

Never mind me.

Can we have an Alexander Cohen/Hildy Parks-styled retrospective when we hit Theatre Gossip #500? With famous posts performed by Susan Anton, Tom Wopat and Stefanie Powers?

In other news, yesterday (10/25) would have been the late, great Barbara Cook's 95th birthday. Here's a new-to-me clip of Barbara, Audra, and Brian Stokes Mitchell at a 2008 fundraiser for Barack Obama. Just beautiful. She was incapable of singing a false note. I almost forgot how it felt to be proud of my country.

^ me too. Sadly, that country no longer exists.

This looks amazing.

He'll have 21 big stickers with each character's name on it.

Eddie is morphing into Brigitte Nielsen.

That’s who I thought that was at first, R34! Not even joking.

With breasts not unlike Brigitte Nielsen's, except hers moved when she skipped.

I saw the Robert O'Hara RAISIN when it was done at Williamstown a few years ago. Based on the Times review today, it looks like that earlier production was better. The "coup de theater" at the end is quite effective, if it's the same one from Williamstown.

I don't know about NEW YORK, NEW YORK - the film itself wasn't really a hit, but the subject matter would certainly play onstage well if the book is tight. But why, o why does Manuel-Miranda need to be involved?

The book writer for New York New York also wrote the terrible Steel Pier and Thou Shall Not.

Uh-oh, r38.

[quote]But why, o why does Manuel-Miranda need to be involved?

His surname is "Miranda." His FIRST name is hyphenated. (Lin-Manuel.)

Ann-Margret

[quote]But why, o why does Manuel-Miranda need to be involved?

Just to annoy you, R37.

I saw the NY Philharmonic at the Geffen last week. I guess that was their soft open. It was very exciting. I have tickets to another concert next month. They have these lights that lower once the lights go out. They hover like UFOs and then go back up. The acoustics were great. Also- it's sort of in the round. There are seats behind the stage.

Susan Anton! That's a blast from the past. I saw her in a Radio City Rockettes touring show back in the 90s. She was the "star."

Gee, why WOULD a theater producer want Lin-Manuel Miranda involved with his project?

Let's ponder that for a moment...hmmmmm.

Thinking....I almost got it.

Think, Brain, THINK!!!

Lin-Manuel is involved because Ebb is dead. Are Stroman and Thompson a couple?

I saw Susan Anton in the replacement cast of Hurleyburley. The less said about it the better.

Susan Anton, as a very young Miss California, finished in a TIE for 2nd runner up in Atlantic City 1970.

She was with Dudley Moore?

Yes.

She was a tall drink of water

Lowered Expectations.

Everyone who complained about the last thread being boring clearly did not read the provided pdf of the Garth Drabinsky vs. Actors' Equity complaint. Lord have mercy, that thing thing has enough juice to stock a smoothie chain.

Thank you to whoever posted that link! Much appreciated!

Also in that last thread was that delicious blog entry from Portia, who left I'M REVOLTING in a hazy huff.

I saw her in that show before she left. No great loss, nor a great show. But also not sure why that fog was deemed necessary. And she is right about one thing: the casting of the other two black actresses, especially the younger, felt like a quota shove considering the parts.

So thank you to that poster as well.

The last thread had gossip gold, gaylings. Just required a little bit of reading.

Did she go by *Sue Ellen* in her pageant days, r51?

^ Pound Cake Queen 2018

I'm not a damn zip code.

The thing that drives me nuts in a stage piece or a tv show is when it's very obviously cast with a checklist.

"OK, we have 3 blacks, 2 latins, 1 East Asian, 1 South Asian, 1 Middle Easterner, a fat trans in a wheelchair, a bitchy but endearing homosexual....oh, and at least one of the leads is white. DONE!"

Which might work in a modern urban drama or comedy but when it's a piece set in a small town in Iowa in 1912 or a rural village inn Midsomer it doesn't quite connect.

If I recall, Bert Parks used to ratchet up the drama by calling out the full name…apparently a plurality of all Miss America winners had Anne/Ann as their middle name.

I prefer HOMOGENOUS casting.

I'll have you know, r57, that Mary Ann Mobley and Lee Ann Meriwether have always been idols of mine.

I like when they cast hung guys in shows with nudity.

I like potato chips...

I was partial to Rebecca Ann King and Phyllis Ann George

It's also okay to add a V.

^ Marilyn’s story is pretty amazing —that she came out of that childhood alive.

Knowing her story: if you watch her crowning on YT, her family is interviewed live on stage….it’s sickening to see her father & her sisters. Life can be hell.

From inside reports, the actual plot to "New York, New York" bears little to no resemblance to the film. They've basically taken the setting (New York, New York!) and the K&E tunes and written an entirely new plot, in an entirely different era. Which is A-OK by me, as I thought the film left a lot to be desired!

It'll be interesting to see who they grab to star in this...

I'd forgotten about that, r64.

I can assure you Bess Myerson's middle name was not Ann or Anne or even AnnE.

Speaking of AnnE, AnnE Hathaway is rumored to be the lead in New York, New York!

I don't care what anyone is saying now, I would bet the $25,000,000 budget that the two leads in NY, NY will not both be white!

Good for her if she thinks she's up to it, r68...is she up to it?

They should write it for three couples a la On the Town, r69.

r60, fortunately for you, Mr. Williams returns to Broadway tomorrow night (as do several of his costars).

(That link came up yesterday during the Google search for the Donnell pics. The timing seems fortuitous.)

Fuck you all!

Re L.A. tv anchors who got around: long before Miss USA Lu Parker, there was Miss America Tawny(!) Elaine Godin-Little-Schneider-Corsini-Welch…

The Bicentennial Miss America (whore)

Vonda Kay and her "talent."

^ America’s first French-Canadien Miss America

Question answerer and noted author Vonda Kay...

A different era? A budget of $25 million? It's going to be set in Imperial Rome?

After 20 years of embarrassing flops, why would anyone trust a $20,000,000 show to Susan Stroman?

New York New York sounds like a tourist trap.

A friend who saw OKLAHOMA! on the road in Arizona asked an usher who said that the show routinely loses 500 at intermission.....in a 3000 seat house.

[quote]After 20 years of embarrassing flops, why would anyone trust a $20,000,000 show to Susan Stroman?

Because Michael Bennett and Hal Prince were otherwise engaged.

I believe it, R82. While I can applaud any radical reinvention like an old (very sturdy) warhorse like OKLAHOMA, this hyper woke production STINKS. Very off putting from the get go and doesn't remotely welcome those not already on the woke bandwagon. Had they given the older, more moderate crowd 'a place to land' it might have a shot, but it's so overwrought in its own self importance that I'm not surprised people are leaving in droves.

'64

I'm surprised Matthew Warchus doesn't get tapped for more of these NEW extravagant musical comedies. He's certainly far more inventive, and facile with comedy and style than Timbers, Stroman and Ellis. Or Mantello for that matter (not that he's doing many musicals these days).

A Warchus directed 20 million dollar show with Stroman strictly choreographing could be a real winner. Casey Nicholaw is probably the only remaining director/choreographer who knows how to put together a sturdy musical comedy from start to finish. He's not always totally successful, but really seems to have that classic theatrical vocabulary to put together a satisfying evening (often in spite of the material he's been given!)

Donna Axum's talent presentation at 0:30 is really...uh...something.

I was pretty underwhelmed by Stroman's Crazy for You but everybody else loved it.

Any chance of a few songs from The Act (lookin at you, "City Lights") being incorporated into New York, New York?

Having Sugar Kane played by a Black woman doesn't seem to me like it would be a huge issue for audiences--yeah, it's not Marilyn, but Sugar's supposed to be a jazz singer in the 20s, making her Black doesn't seem like that big of a stretch.

I think it's more likely for Some Like It Hot to run in to issues with the trans/nonbinary crowd--they're a humorless lot.

Well, just what is the story with Harrison Ghee (who plays Jerry/Daphne)? I know he's not trans but does he consider himself non-binary?

I worry that today's woke mores will insist in Jerry decidedly coming out as gay at the end of the show rather than....perplexed.

Can we perhaps get into an honest discussion of the pitfalls of excessive diversity casting without using the pathetic idiot MAGA buzzword "woke"?

kthxbye.

That character doesn't come out as gay, R91. In this version, he identifies as non-binary at the end of the story.

I'm not making it up--it's been confirmed online.

What is a more appropriate term for "woke" in these kinds of discussions?

Honest question.

ugh, r94, that's much worse than coming out as gay, at least in a period musical.

Yet again I say "Pendulum, please do your thing."

I meant that for r93 ^^^^^^

R92 wasn't it the Left who came up with the term "woke"?

Oh dear God this sounds far worse than Sugar and that was bad enough.

I agree with R92, at least about the word "woke" and the way it's bandied about.

If it's merely your substitute/shorthand for black, BiPOC, or non-white people, then you're an idiot. And probably a racist.

Cause only idiots and racists are still describing things as "woke" in election season, 2022.

I don't quite see Christian Borle as the handsome Tony Curtis type, but then again, Tony Roberts in "Sugar" also didn't quite fit that aspect of the role. Borle seems more like a natural Daphne.

Sorry, liberals, " woke' is all yours.

It originated in African American English and gained more widespread use beginning in 2014 as part of the Black Lives Matter movement.

I think there might be a little Matrix in the woke genealogy, too.

But I'd say Tony Roberts' casting as Joe/Josephine was one of the failings of SUGAR. That role should have been played by someone sexier like Laurence Guittard or Ken Howard, for example. Joe, as the "straight man" didn't really need someone funny.

I liked SUGAR quite a lot and even saw it a few times. Not brilliant, but great fun.

The Sugar character should be a Trans named Splenda.

Those Twitter photos of Jesse W. don't even do justice to it. It was really like something out of a porn fantasy.

Because it made me laugh, I'll add this post from the 1776 thread:

The name on everybody's lips is gonna be . . . PORKALOB!

The they who's raking in the chips is gonna be . . . PORKALOB!

And, will add, I find it funny thinking that later they'd have to say, "I'm gonna get me, a whole bunch of thems!"

*

That was simply awful.

This may shock the pearl-clutchers, but being woke unto itself is not a bad thing. It's being INSUFFERABLE about it. Broadway shows aren't assholes, people who create/appear in/attend/appraise without attending them can be. And if we're going to trot out "Go woke, go broke," then why not a rallying cry for the other side (or even people who know Oklahoma!, etc. will do just fine in the end)? "Worthy creations survive even the least creative."

Hicks is certainly believable as a jazz singer. I wish this song was better though. It's too similar to "They Just Keep Moving the Line," which is far superior.

I have to assume that Playbill knew what they were getting when they hired Diep Tran. I mean, they have to have, you know, looked at here Tweets? She's always race-baiting...

The danger of making a musical these days based on a classic comedy film is that streaming allows anybody and everybody to watch these iconic movies whenever they wish. The originals are always superior, always.

Is "Some Like It Hot" still set in the 1920s? How the hell does someone come out as nonbinary in the 1920s?

People couldn't see those movies as the Afternoon movie or whatever back in the day?

r106, these are better. And for all the performative outrage and all the effort to get them pulled at first, it seems like they've given up. A simple Google search turned up plenty so they're widely and openly available.

[Quote] How the hell does someone come out as nonbinary in the 1920s?

A tuxedo'll do it.

Does he have an ugly thigh tat?

Non-binary is a made-up category that's, what? 10 years old? Stupid to have that as the resolution. The film has a pretty close to perfect script and ending--you lose that perfect balance and the story line will collapse like a souffle.

They're making the Joe E. Brown character non-binary?

Didn't John Kenley move back and forth in gender presentation?

[quote]What is a more appropriate term for "woke" in these kinds of discussions?

Oh I dunno. Maybe explain what issues you have in simple English without resorting to stupid buzzwords used as a verbal cudgel by racists?

Agreed, R122. For example, my issue with the new Some Like It Hot is what feels like a lack of trust in the source material. If that's the case, write your own inspired by work.

I mean, yeah. There's an enormous number of broadway shows primarily hiring POC.

And they're all tanking. Anybody can see that. And the question is where producers go from here.

I have friends who teach/direct in University theatre programs, and the thing they're worried about now is how to stage...well, anything featuring material that could upset anybody.

Happy 50th birthday, Mr. Audra McDonald!

[Quote] Broadway shows aren't assholes

Thanks r110.

If I was Patti LuPone I would never give an interview to Playbill ever again…not that that matters but Jesus Christ that editor is Cuntine

there's an entire Follies collection of costumes??

[Quote] There's an enormous number of broadway shows primarily hiring POC.

Care to be more specific?

If you think The Beauty That Drives Men Mad was awful imagine 2 and one half hours of it on stage at the Majestic. Yes the whole thing was like that and that was one of its best numbers. I'm not kidding. I wish I were. I'm glad someone enjoyed it. To me it looked cheap, the Gower Champion staging was a major disappointment and Elaine Joyce was completely pointless as Sugar. Without charm, sex or any discernable talent. And I saw it three times. Why? I was a kid and Robert Morse and Cyril Ritchard were legends to me.

No, R129. Sadly, it's photoshopped.

Well for goodness sakes, r132/r129 , it wouldn't be hard to whip one up on the old Huskvarna.

The third time I saw Sugar the pre Chorus Line Pam Blair was Sugar. After the show I literally walked in backstage(nobody was at the stagedoor. Things could be very casual in those days.) to get autographs and the first one I met was Ms Blair. She was the sweetest person imaginable and helped me to get everyone to sign my playbill. She was very kind to a stagestruck kid. I hope she is well.

Playbill will never be able to get rid of Tran and I suspect she's going to be the ruination of it.

So far I don't see any difference in Playbill.com. It's just the same old 2-days-late news and scary red carpet photos like always.

How was she as Sugar, r134?

Mark your calendars...

They weren't very big.

Is that Bert Convy?

Yes, Rose. He played Sugar.

It looks like Joe Namath

For reference.

Joe Namath did Sugar several times through the years.

I remember her being good and better than Joyce.

That's exactly what we expected to hear, r145.

R112, aside from everything else that's wrong about that tweet, it's laughably inaccurate to say that Patti LuPone's recent antics were greeted with "relative crickets." Among my circle of friends and colleagues, people were talking about that brouhaha as much if not more than they were talking about the Porkalob debacle.

The Patti non-fans on here were ripping her to shreds...

I don't see Diep Tran lasting very long.

I can't see the big producers and theater owners who basically buy all the ads that keep Playbill alive, being very thrilled with her.

[quote]There's an enormous number of broadway shows primarily hiring POC.

Oh for God's sake, just say " black," because that's what POC means. All other minorities have been shoved aside.

The problem with the role of Sugar Kane is that Monroe gives one of the greatest comic, touching and physically indelible performances in American cultural history in the film. She is the diamond at the center of the story and is irreplaceable.

It's a sexpot role. How do they play in 2022?

Well, as soubrette is still a casting type...

Thank you, Sue Brett...

Okay, I take it back, the singer playing Sugar is a very good jazz singer, but she's not a dingbat bombshell--and part of the reason the film works is that Sugar Kane is such an over-the-top character--she's no more real than the boys are.

Sydney Sweeney for Sugar!

A few notes from the inside:

- It's doubtful NEW YORK, NEW YORK is the show where someone said "just cast the right people." The producers are relentlessly woke bleeding-heart liberals. Anyway, it's an ensemble cast where the main characters are a Black jazz singer coupled with an Irish piano player; a Jewish violinist, and a Latino musician. It ticks every racial/ethnic box. I bet by the time it opens, it'll have an Asian character.

- The Jerry/Daphne character won't use the word "non-binary," of course. But the character at the end realizes that they are their truest self dressed as a woman. So there is indeed a revision to satiate the minuscule trans crowd.

- Deep Trans, new Playbill editor, indeed won't last a year. Mark my words. The old-school owners are not interested in social change, or doing anything that even faintly whiffs of something fresher than what they've been doing for the past 15 years. It's one of the reasons the previous Editor-in-Chief left. Playbill is nothing but a fangurl ad for Broadway. The owners won't tolerate critique of the industry. When Trans "resigns," and she will, she'll have a Porkabob-level meltdown on the socials, guaranteed.

"Deep Trans." You are a wit, aren't you.

Ooo. I'm wounded. And what are you offering the thread? That's right, nothing.

[quote] Elaine Joyce was completely pointless as Sugar.

They shoulda got Joyce Bulifant.

There is a Joyce Bulifant musical! Sharing the number with Lesley Ann Warren in "The Happiest Millionaire".

Bye Yum Pum Pum, indeed!

Wasn’t Bernie Peters going to tour in Sugar but Gower wanted her for Mack and Mable instead? And Miss Hathaway will not be on broadway anytime soon. She said in an interview that she may be doing a movie musical but not broadway. Her film career is still hot and she’s a mom. She’s not looking to do 8 shows a week.

[quote]I remember her being good and better than Joyce.

Ginny in Billing would have been better than Elaine Joyce. Her career peak was as a frequent contestant (with then husband Bobby Van) on "Tattletales."

I've always had a big crush on James MacArthur as a kid because I loved those Disney movies he was in. In fact I went to a tribute to Lillian Gish because he spoke as she was his godmother. I got to talk to him about his Disney career a bit after and he was very nice.

So I had to read Bulifant's book as she was married to him during those golden Disney years and wow he was quite the selfish, drunken, unfaithful, not above raping his wife monster. And his 'mother' the sweet Helen Hayes... well all she needed was a broomstick to complete the picture.

Helen Hayes was the first lady of being a cunt.

[quote[ Eddie is morphing into Brigitte Nielsen.

I thought he was morphing into Birgit Nilsson.

Man, I had such a huge crush on the blond, older brother in SWISS FAMILY ROBINSON. I'm an '80s baby, but I grew up with a lot of '50s/'60s Disney movies and SFR was definitely a childhood favorite, particularly because of the often-shirtless James McArthur. 😍

[Quote] The old-school owners are not interested in social change, or doing anything that even faintly whiffs of something fresher than what they've been doing for the past 15 years

Why/how did they hire her then? She hasn’t been quiet about her POV has she?

Broadway is in deep shit. The only things that make money are star vehicles: Lea Michele in Funny Girl and Hugh Jackman in The Music Man.

Doing plays and musicals with a diverse cast is great…but it doesn’t make money when said diverse cast is mediocre and said shows with diverse casts are uninspired or poorly produced.

Diversity is a great thing. But talent and brilliance shouldn’t be traded in for diversity check lists.

For example Michael Bennett was a white guy in a “straight” marriage (however fake and a sham the marriage was, this was his “public” persona) and yet he was the BEST person to direct Dreamgirls and made it brilliant to watch.

Hiring a person of color as the director because of the subject matter, may not have created a brilliant state production depending on the talent of the director.

This is the problem Broadway finds itself in today.

The most talented people should get each job, not a diversity quota.

GO WOKE, GO BROKE

[quote]Miss Hathaway will not be on broadway anytime soon. She said in an interview that she may be doing a movie musical but not broadway. Her film career is still hot and she’s a mom. She’s not looking to do 8 shows a week.

Is the schedule for shooting a movie LESS punishing overall for mothers with young children than a Broadway schedule? I would say it's far more punishing, though yes, for a considerably shorter period of time. I guess it would mostly depend on where Miss Hathaway lives and wants to live.

[quote]For example Michael Bennett was a white guy in a “straight” marriage (however fake and a sham the marriage was, this was his “public” persona) and yet he was the BEST person to direct Dreamgirls and made it brilliant to watch.

DREAMGIRLS also had a book/lyrics and music by white men.

In fact, co-choreographer Michael Peters was the only POC on the crew and he worked in conjunction with Bennett.

Does Anne Hathaway have good enough training to be able to sing 8 shows a week and not ruin her voice?

The energy required to perform in a musical eight times a week-- much more strenuous than doing a movie where you don't have to sustain a performance for over two hours at a time.

This is r547 writing (from the previous thread and the current) Just want to peel back the curtain here a little for those interested in how today's casting and programming policies developed into the clusterfuck environment we are just beginning to crawl out of. I don't want to identify myself on a public message board and I assume some will dismiss what I am saying, but I have put decades into this business and most of that has been centered on the casting of actors. Want to preface by reiterating what I touched on in the previous thread: The entertainment business is not and never has been fair and equitable. Never. Talented people, indeed some of the most talented actors, do not have careers that match their talent. Conversely, some very um... limited actors have careers and options that far, far outweigh their gifts when compared to their contemporaries. I am talking about white" privileged" actors here, we aren't even beginning to address diversity. Deirdre O'Connell springs to mind here, getting some recognition in her 60s after decades of excellent work. There are others but multiply her by dozens, and you will understand my point. There always has been and always will be major considerations in casting APART from talent. Does this actor tell the story of the piece in the way the director/ creatives envision it? Does this person make sense with the tone/feel of the show and the existing cast? Does this person have "heat" in the business, or does this person have box office. Those are the types of considerations that people will ADMIT to that go into casting decisions.

Here are some others that functionally occur when directors/producers/creatives are making casting decisions that are ever present but nobody wants to really articulate:

"If I cast this actor, I will get on the radar of their famous mother/brother/sister/friend who is famous and will put me on this famous person's radar and entice them to come on my show for an highly publicized arc or do a play I want to produce on Broadway that needs a name or just give me something to puff myself up over at a dinner party"

"If I cast that actor, over another actor what impact will it have when we announce. Will the press release with this person's name generate buzz and advance, because if my first press release is lacking star power, I will definitely choose an actor I can live with for a brilliant actor if I need that buzz"

"Since two or more members of the creative team cannot agree on the obvious best choice (for purely power struggle/ego reasons) someone everyone can "live with" is hired because the dick sizing in the casting session won't allow one person to grant the other their choice" Note this is mostly a male thing. women tend to be more collaborative.

Just a few examples, there are others. You get the point. Showbiz. Isn't Fair. The most talented person SOMETIMES gets the gig, sometimes doesn't

Casting has never been and never will be focused only on talent, so let's get that understood before we get to diversity.

What also happened is a kind of knee jerk bias against white actors. A few years back a major non profit in NY was producing a Shakespeare comedy and they were pretty direct talking to agents about how they weren't even seeing white actors (male /female/trans/) for 90% of the roles. It was a disaster but the trend continued.

As I said, producers and creatives are now finding ways to say "we love diversity, but the priority is talent, professionalism as well as the "off label" shit I mentioned above that sometimes gets into the mix.

The point here is that show business has never been fair and it isn't for everyone, even if they desperately want it. I asked an agent last week who they were looking for ( in terms of roster) and she told me she is looking for talent first and foremost but mostly in white males., she said everyone is needing white males on their list now because agents have been focusing on finding diverse clients at the expense of white actors.

Speaking of Deirdre O’Connell I stumbled upon some of her self tape auditions that she posted on YouTube. She was absolutely wonderful in each one but did not get the job. I have no idea why she posted them but it proves how someone who is a mega talent doesn’t always get cast.

[quote]There always has been and always will be major considerations in casting APART from talent. Does this actor tell the story of the piece in the way the director/ creatives envision it? Does this person make sense with the tone/feel of the show and the existing cast?

R176, I really appreciate your thoughtful post, but for what it's worth, I think the two examples above are entirely valid reasons for not casting a particular actor in a particular role, even if they are subjectively considered more talented than the person who winds up getting the role. It's the OTHER reasons you cite -- nepotism, etc. -- that are very unfair.

Her name is AnnE.

*I* am the ONLY "Miss Hathaway."

Looks like the Bway sex thread was removed again

[quote]Speaking of Deirdre O’Connell I stumbled upon some of her self tape auditions that she posted on YouTube. She was absolutely wonderful in each one but did not get the job. I have no idea why she posted them but it proves how someone who is a mega talent doesn’t always get cast.

she's amazing. contemporary of Streep (younger by a few years )and every bit as capable. There are a handful of other "mature" actors and actresses just as special and talented as DiDi and I try every chance I get to advance them.

First look at new musical TAMMY FAYE!

With Miss Andrew Rannells.

For r180.

Poor Andy Randelle. Back to slumming on Broadway, eh? TV work dry up?

Jane Hathaway as Sugar Kane......failing that......Jane Hathaway as Sweet Sue.

Lol thanks r183 - I guess there is no conspiracy theory, just a terrible search function.

R176, when casting decisions are being made, how does previous bad behavior fit into the mix?

Situations like Jeremy Piven leaving his show early, Jan Maxwell leaving early. David Burtka leaving early. Then people like Patti LuPone, who freely admitted hiding during Les Miserables rehearsals and while she delivers, always seemed to be a general pain in the ass.

Is there a blacklist or is it dependent on each producer and their feeling that they can manage the situation?

I have been involved in casting for several different productions and trust me, the phrase “life is too short” comes up fairly often. I don’t know why actors think producers and directors don’t make phone calls to people they have previously worked for.

Whoa, Tovah really is delightful isn't she?

Grimes uses more gestures than motorists during rush hour. Comical.

It's very odd that Jared got the only Tony nom and really highlights just how bad Beanie was. I don't know if he's just going through something now but his acting leaves a lot to be desired in the videos I've seen of him. Which sucks because he seems like a great guy and dancer.

[quote]Does Anne Hathaway have good enough training to be able to sing 8 shows a week and not ruin her voice?

She trained at the Paper Mill Playhouse school. They might know what they're doing. And her Mom is an actress who toured in "Les Miz" in the role Anne won the Oscar for.

Anne did Carnival at Encores. If she can do four performances in that football stadium called City Center, she could do Broadway.

Yes, her heart...

"Gee, why WOULD a theater producer want Lin-Manuel Miranda involved with his project?"

No taste?

"For example, my issue with the new Some Like It Hot is what feels like a lack of trust in the source material"

That holds true for just about EVERY adaptation and revival on Broadway today. That and a deep distrust of and disdain for the audience. Broadway has lost faith in itself and its patrons. The contract is broken. And it's tragic.

WHET to Broadway beefcake bottom Nick Adams? Did he get swept up by a sugar daddy?

AnnE almost played Sally Bowles in the last Roundabout revival. Almost. And, so I’ve been told, it was between her and Tammy Blanchard for Gypsy and they went with Tammy. But that was before AnnE’s movie career took off.

Katie Holmes will save Bway!

One thing about “Leopoldstadt:” no colorblind casting there.

Ms. Hathaway? Jane Hathaway?

Now there’s a great musical waiting to be born: “The Prime of Miss Jane Hathaway”

R196 he’s HAWT!!🍆🔥 also DEAD TO ME…and everyone else

[quote]Katie Holmes will save Bway!

Katie Holmes always looks like she needs a nap and a facial.

[quote]When casting decisions are being made, how does previous bad behavior fit into the mix? Is there a blacklist or is it dependent on each producer and their feeling that they can manage the situation?

Why would you want to ask such a ridiculous question? As if there could be some sort of general blacklist that everyone would feel compelled to follow. Who exactly do you think would prepare such a list? The Broadway League? The SDC?

R201, wrong Nick Adams! This one grams!

Incidentally, Nick Adams (the Broadway actor) was when I first learned the meaning of the phrase "smelling cookies," when some DLer used him as an example way back when.

[quote]Katie Holmes always looks like she needs a nap and a facial.

A condition that applies to virtually every Datalounger.

[quote]A condition that applies to virtually every Datalounger.

Don't blame me because Mary Kay discontinued their oatmeal masque, r206.

R204

No shit, Sherlock… I know more than one Nick Adams…and you know no humor.

Am I the only one who thinks New York, New York sounds like a summer show for Radio City Music Hall? Very well-produced and professional, but rather mechanical and basically for tourists.

Speaking of, WHET The Rockettes?

Someone told them to break a leg, r209...and they did.

r209 maybe because it sorta was

[quote]Speaking of, WHET The Rockettes?

If you were a regular reader of playbill.com, you would know that they're busy rehearsing their annual Christmas Spectacular, which opens Nov. 18.

R212 = Diep Tran, Editor in Chief, Playbill

You know what I miss? The ABC theatre listings in the NYTimes. When I was a young gayling growing up in Western Pennsylvania, my stepfather would buy the Sunday Times after church. I would commandeer the Arts and Leisure section and spread it out on the table and study it (after I'd found all of Hirschfeld's Ninas). So many shows I'd never see, but still! I knew the addresses of the theatres, the ticket prices, the performance schedules, the stars ("Last week to see Chita Rivera!"). Yes, the print edition of the Sunday Times does still have the ABCs, but only Six seems to advertise.

For the NYC natives here--interesting take on STRAIGHT LINE CRAZY with Ralph Fiennes as Robert Moses.

Here's the actual review.

O'Connell's hair doesn't fit her face.

I saw STRAIGHT LINE CRAZY in London, so excited because it was final preview at the wonderful Bridge Theatre, but came away totally disappointed in the play and even Fiennes' performance. That Vulture pan could have been written by me. Glad to see the play isn't fooling everybody.

Thank you R176 for articulating what I've also spelled out here in the past. Those "additional" considerations beyond talent -- the "it" or "x" factor. The chemistry not only between that actor and those already cast, but also between the actor and the director/choreographer factor in heavily. There are also those financial and celebrity considerations that bolster the status of the production and those attached to it (like the director or choreographer or lead producers).

It isn't fair. It's never been fair. And it will never be fair. Equality of opportunity is incredibly important. Everyone should have the ability to throw their hat in the ring. But when it comes down to the casting of a 20 million dollar production, you'd be wildly naive to think anyone gives a shit about D&I optics. Not because they're racist or willfully barring those POCs/marginalized groups from ascending into those roles. It becomes about star power, and appealing to the greatest number of people as possible. Males, females, gay, straight, black or white.

Despite what the woke protest, they're not catering solely to a white (or straight) audience. They're catering to the lowest common denominator / broadest possible appeal. They want and NEED to turn a profit. If a property came along that got Black or Latino audiences out in droves, they'd double down on that. They want a sell out. But by sheer math, you have a 75% white US population to factor in. It doesn't mean they WON'T see a non-white play or musical. But I doubt even white audiences would turn out for an old Eugene O'Neill or Shakespearean warhorse unless Nathan Lane, Denzel Washington and some boffo box office stars were headlining. This is showBIZ. The woke academic types need to remind themselves of that.

By that logic, no actor should ever come out.

[quote]Don't blame me because Mary Kay discontinued their oatmeal masque, [R206].

You're not a true Datalounger. The only DL-approved beauty treatment is the Queen Helene Mint Julep Masque.

Or semen.

[quote]R219 The chemistry not only between that actor and those already cast, but also between the actor and the director/choreographer factor in heavily.

Some bitches I’d be happy to name exploit that.

To be honest, I'm surprised Tyler Perry hasn't tried to put Madea on Broadway...not with HIM in the role necessarily but some other actor. (but, he's probably proprietory about the character.)

Black audiences would turn up for THAT! All those black, churchy, sassy stage shows that used to tour any city with a sizable population of black people are proof that black audiences turn up when it's something they really want to see. And, just like white audiences, what they want to see is usually populist junk.

The thing the dumb dumb Woke theater nerds don't get is, black/minority audiences really aren't that enthused about seeing POC actors in some boring old play...unless it's a huge star they recognize/love. And, only bourgie minority audiences have any interest in seeing new plays about black/minority experiences and topics and that's not a particularly huge audience. Which is really no different than ANY topical new play...white or black, you're going to quickly burn through interested audiences in the latest Martyna Majok or Adrienne Kennedy play.

Audiences regardless of color want to see stars and prefer funny to not funny. Or, cheesy melodrama. That's the shit that runs for months and months or years and years.

Chicken And Biscuits was a flop. Same thing.

Reviews of the Tammy Faye musical.

While reading Jesse Green’s mixed review of A Raisin in the Sun, I wondered when some adventurous producer will put on a bold reimagining of that piece with an all white cast.

Not gonna happen, r227.

r224 Don't give Lavarious Slaughter any ideas.

[quote]While reading Jesse Green’s mixed review of A Raisin in the Sun, I wondered when some adventurous producer will put on a bold reimagining of that piece with an all white cast.

What an original idea that's never ever been expressed in the theater gossip threads before!

Lol touché

Miss Ebersole

[quote]Whoa, Tovah really is delightful isn't she?

I don't think this is a popular take, but I liked her more than Andrea Martin in Pippin. Saw Martin twice -- on Broadway and on the LA stop of the tour. Martin was great, but I thought gave a very surface level performance. Tovah earned all the same laughs when I saw her, but I was surprised at how genuinely and deeply she made emotional connections during her brief moments on stage, too.

Thank you, R547 from the previous thread.

Are black audiences supporting "A Strange Loop", or is it more likely the woke (it's shorthand, sorry), virtuecratic diversity [italic]uber alles[/italic] crowd has all seen it by now so it's closing soon?

Surely Tovah didn’t do Martin’s staging?

I saw Priscilla Lopez replacing Martin late in the run. She executed all of the trapeze moves beautifully and was utterly charming.

I saw Priscilla sitting sitting outside a studio waiting to audition for Paper Mill's Pippin around 2000.

^ Oops, she was sitting, not sitting sitting.

[quote]Surely Tovah didn’t do Martin’s staging?

Are you referring to the trapeze routine? If so, she certainly did the night I saw her.

R235, no black audiences are going to ASL. None.

Is sitting sitting anything to do with rape rape?

Tovah gives a beautiful performance in the movie Kissing Jessica Stein. Just lovely.

Sitting sitting is to sitting what rape rape is to rape, r242.

Where there Andy Mientus pics?

Did Ruth Gordon teach Tovah everything she knows?

I’ve enjoyed Tovah since her 12 episode stint on Ryan’s Hope (yes I’m an Eldergay) and I’m happy to see her still getting Broadway acclaim.

And a big, panty-flashin' Sarava to you, r247!

Tovah would give you the paper plate off her fold up table.

[quote]I don't think this is a popular take, but I liked her more than Andrea Martin in Pippin. Saw Martin twice -- on Broadway and on the LA stop of the tour. Martin was great, but I thought gave a very surface level performance. Tovah earned all the same laughs when I saw her, but I was surprised at how genuinely and deeply she made emotional connections during her brief moments on stage, too.

I saw Lucie Arnaz on tour. She was okay. The only other time i saw her on stage was in the original production of "They're Playing Our Song," a show that DL-ers seem to love for reasons that escape me.

The lengthy, well-written posts here about casting are great. Whoever you are, thank you.

R187, Jan Maxwell’s early exit did not really hurt her career at all, and I don’t think it’s fair to lump her in with the others you mentioned. The entire situation around Entertaining Mr. Sloane was toxic, no one was doing anything about it, and so she left when she couldn’t take it anymore. The leaked message was a fuck you to the powers that be for letting things go as far as they did, but it was not even close to revealing everything that was going on behind the scenes.

[Quote] The only other time i saw her on stage was in the original production of "They're Playing Our Song," a show that DL-ers seem to love for reasons that escape me.

Not [italic] that [/italic] again. What is the geriatric joy you queens get in stirring up ancient topics that were relentless and boring the first time? These chats are like producing a revival of [italic] Teddy & Alice [/italic] . It went on too long the first time and here you are trying to do it again.

I think dying hurt Jan Maxwell's career.

What a loser.

Not on the Datalounge r254.

TPOS is a timeless DL topic because it was absolutely terrible but a popular hit. I walked out after the beginning of the second act because I knew it was not going to get better and I had a root canal I needed to get to.

Pricilla Lopez *may* have been sitting outside Papermill playhouse waiting to audition for Pippin, but Tovah Feldshuh was *shitting* outside the Pippin tour auditions.

THAT is what we call commitment!

[Quote] I knew it was not going to get better and I had a root canal I needed to get to.

Its wit was superior to yours though.

Not at all. It was typical of Neil Simon's in the show. You must have stopped seeing Simon after The Odd Couple.

So, with all the smart talk about unfair casting practices, not one or two undeserved jobs - but entire careers not proportional to their talent and appeal?

Not taking the bait r260

Sorry incomplete post at r261

So, with all the smart talk about unfair casting practices, name some broadway folks who have careers they shouldn’t have gotten. Not one or two undeserved jobs - but entire careers not proportional to their talent and appeal?

The bait is still not particularly tasty r263.

What in the world is "sitting sitting"? What are you trying to say, r238/r239? Are you drunk?

I feel sorry for all of you that didn't see Irene Ryan as Bertha in PIPPIN. She didn't need no trapeze.

I did!

Wow!! One of the best theatrical memories. Talk about blowing the roof off the house. Today you would need a trapeze and a quadruple somersault. Even got her autograph at the stage door. She was so frail, small and birdlike and walked away towards Eighth avenue all alone. I was frightened for her. I feel stupid now for not offering to accompany her though she probably wouldn't have wanted me to. Remember this was Eighth Av in the 70s.

[quote]when casting decisions are being made, how does previous bad behavior fit into the mix?

If someone has a consistent reputation for unprofessional behavior or a reputation for being abusive, that person will not show up on a casting director's list. Casting just won't knowingly bring someone in like that. If you are shitty to others, show up on set not knowing your lines, lack sobriety etc, these things will have impact on your reputation. If a person gets sober, gets help and gets better, I am all about second, third, fourth chances provided the talent is there and they aren't abusive assholes. It is always a cost/value analysis. People have deserved and undeserved reputations, and your rep always plays into how people feel about you. My best advice is to NEVER PUNCH DOWN. Never disrespect or devalue anyone junior to you or less accomplished than you. Those people you shit on today may very well be in a position some day to have impact on your career in the future. This is something of a cliché but how you treat my receptionist is something I notice.

Directors/Creatives are human (40-50% of them) and have grudges, personal preferences etc., that can influence how someone is considered. But it can go both ways & it isn't completely unheard of for an actor to refuse to come in for or work for a director/producer/ somebody with whom they have had a bad experience or have heard very negative things about. Example: a Well known actor had worked with a well known director before becoming a well known actor. This director requested this actor for a meeting that would probably become an offer in a decent role in an upcoming project. Agent said actor already booked, I knew this wasn't true, so I asked around. & discovered the director had been verbally abusive to this actor on their project, and others had noticed and discussed it. Confirmed this with the actors' agent. So directors and producers out there, just be aware that if your reputation among actors matters also :)

People have long memories in this business about how they've been treated. Blacklists are illegal but, in truth, everyone has an unofficial blacklist in their head and honestly, this is a business where egos are big and when bruised often seek revenge. My first boss told me, "never fire anyone on the phone and if you have to fire someone, make sure they think the decision was out of your hands" Smart. That receptionist you yelled at and fired might be an exec in 5 years and could be the thumbs up or down on you. That actor you dropped from your list unceremoniously may be a star in 5 years and could be the reason you didn't land that last client.

[quote]So, with all the smart talk about unfair casting practices, not one or two undeserved jobs - but entire careers not proportional to their talent and appeal?

Not sure what the question is here, but yes, it is very possible for an actor to have a career that is not proportional to their talent. Very common in fact.

somewhere in this thread, someone posted a link to a self tape audition DiDi O'Connell did for a Broadway play she didn't get. Go look at that and ask yourself how many movie stars can act that well. Not many

Btw, to the person who asked why someone posts self tapes on YouTube: Actors do self tapes and send them via link to agents who upload them to casting software.

"entire careers not proportional to their talent and appeal" Johnny Depp. And I will not be taking any questions. He has always sucked.

So if anyone wants a spoiler for the coup de theater in the new Raisin in the Sun production, let me know. It’s designed to make all the white people in the audience feel like racists.

Sure. Put up or shut up.

Spoil away, r271.

A giant white hood covers the stage and giant blue animatronic eyes stare out at the audience from eyeholes.

Sounds very Disneyfied, r274.

Close, R274. So here's the spoiler:

The coup de theatre is the Younger apartment set recedes upstage and the facade of a pretty suburban home comes down from the rafters and Travis (the son) is standing in front of it. It’s bright and sunny and hopeful. But then a projection of the “N” word is graffitied across the house. It eliminates any possibility of a happy ending. (Which we already knew…)

Re: people who have had careers "not proportional to their talent and appeal."

Forgive me, but I don't think that question was phrased well. The important thing here is to remember that, in many cases, the source of a performer's appeal may not be something that you or I or any other individual necessarily responds to, but that the general public responds to in a big way. I would personally cite John Wayne as someone whose appeal entirely escapes me except in his very earliest films, when he was breathtakingly gorgeous. Other than that, I would say he could never really act, and of course, he seemed like quite a loathsome human being in his personal life. I can only guess that his appeal was in terms of the archetype he represented to people who love that archetype so much that Wayne's near total lack of talent did not bother them at all.

In her original ending for "Raisin," Hansberry had the family armed and sitting in the new home, waiting to be attacked.

Although I hated the "coup de theatre" at the end of this RAISIN IN THE SUN production, I wouldn't necessarily say it was "designed to make all the white people in the audience feel like racists." Because, after all, those people can tell themselves -- correctly, in most cases, I'm sure -- that they would never commit or support such terrorism, and that they find the very idea of it hateful and disgusting.

Rather, the directorial addition that has the effect you mention -- ARGUABLE "SPOILER" AHEAD -- is the moment when, during Walter Lee's monologue about black people having to engage in minstrelsy and act like Uncle Toms towards white people in order to survive, Walter steps down to the lip of the stage and delivers that entire speech directly to the audience while holding up a RAISIN IN THE SUN Playbill. I mean, really, what message is that supposed to send? That this great play by Lorraine Hansberry is an example of minstrelsy? Did the director actually think about the point he was trying to make here, or did he stage the moment that way just for shock value, even if what it really implies is that this whole production is a minstrel show?

[quote]The coup de theatre is the Younger apartment set recedes upstage and the facade of a pretty suburban home comes down from the rafters and Travis (the son) is standing in front of it. It’s bright and sunny and hopeful. But then a projection of the “N” word is graffitied across the house. It eliminates any possibility of a happy ending. (Which we already knew…)

Is this a joke or is it really happening? Surprised the Hansberry estate, or whoever controls the rights, gave permission for this. Hansberry wrote a beautiful ending, and this sophomoric ending robs it of all its subtlety and nuance.

[quote]Walter steps down to the lip of the stage and delivers that entire speech directly to the audience while holding up a RAISIN IN THE SUN Playbill.

You're joking, right?

If only, R281.

I would boo and leave.

Eldergays, was Will Rogers Follies as boring as it looks?

Yes, r284. Yes, it was.

r284 - It's another example of Tommy Tune working his magic and making it seem like there's more to the show than there is. Also greatly aided by Willa Kim.

Yes please r271

[quote] the Younger apartment set recedes upstage and the facade of a pretty suburban home comes down from the rafters and Travis (the son) is standing in front of it. It’s bright and sunny and hopeful. But then a projection of the “N” word is graffitied across the house.

In other words, assuming the audience that elected to come to your damn production of this BIPOC play is stupid and that Hansberry was, too. Delightful. Another example of puerile directors wanting audiences and critics (mostly the latter) to think about THEM instead of the playwright or performers.

R284-I sat through the first act of Will Rogers Follies and when the house lights came up, decided I'd had enough.My friend and I fled.

If the stories about Tommy Tune being high all during rehearsals for Nine are true, then WRF proved he'd moved on to hallucinogens as well.

My highschool did WRF and I just kept wondering 'why does this musical even exist? who is this for?'

Nominees:

Will Rogers Follies

The Secret Garden

Miss Saigon

Once on This Island

A sad reminder. So unfair that WRF won over both ONCE ON THIS ISLAND and THE SECRET GARDEN, both of which are vastly superior shows.

SAIGON, on the other hand....

Miss Saigon was, and still is, a murky piece of shit.

Saigon isn't a masterwork, but it's a hell of a lot more entertaining and involving than Will Rogers Follies. Why does WRF look like something a mega church would produce?

Why didn't Tommy Tune ever work with Wiliam Ivey Long again after NINE?

Will Rogers had decent french fries. Are they all gone now?

R295-Because Long is a predator.

[quote]As long as it wasn't "On Golden Pond"...

Sorry, Michael Arden has "On Golden Pond" all tied up.

Will Andy be playing Chelsea?

I think Miss Saigon would have won had it not been for Cameron’s feud with Actor’s Equity where he threatened to cancel the whole thing if they didn’t accept Jonathan Pryce for the Engineer.

Cameron left a bad taste in people’s mouth.. particularly Willy Falk

[quote]Cameron left a bad taste in people’s mouth.. particularly Willy Falk

Ha! Or were those roles reversed? Or was Falk someone else's boy in that show?

[quote]Will Andy be playing Chelsea?

No. Michael has daringly cast Andy as the Golden Pond.

^^ Stealth piss post

[R214]: Years ago, a friend of mine used to refer to the Sunday NYT Arts and Leisure section as the “Gay Sports Pages.”

Same guy used to call the Oscars the “Gay Super Bowl!”

Long ago and far away…

The days when the Oscars were the "GaySuper Bowl" are long in the past.

Look for it only in books, for it is no more than a dream remembered ... a civilization gone with the slings ...

I suspect many of the denizens of the Datalounge civilization do much more than remember slings.

[quote]Not that again. What is the geriatric joy you queens get in stirring up ancient topics that were relentless and boring the first time? These chats are like producing a revival of Teddy & Alice . It went on too long the first time and here you are trying to do it again.

And yet your post contributed so much to enlivening the conversation.

R296, and Roy Rogers never met a man he didn’t like…

" Miss Saigon" was a terrible piece of shit in large part because Johnathan Pryce was cast in that role. If it were being staged today, Kim would be played by Fantasia.

Gee I never saw it but The Will Rodgers Follies looks dreadful.

Nine was a very mediocre show dressed up to look dazzling and it was. Has there been a musical production of a Broadway show as good or better since?

Matt Doyle going into LITTLE SHOP. Matt has a very nice cock, btw.

Keith Carradine was very charismatic as Will and deserved the Tony.

[quote]Matt Doyle going into LITTLE SHOP. Matt has a very nice cock, btw.

Too bad they won't be able to work that into the show.

Wish Mike Doyle would go naked again. Still looking good.

From the four 1991 Best Musical nominees, the one that deserved it the most was Miss Saigon, but the best of the four was Once on This Island. The Will Rogers Follies score is horrible and forgettable, and OOTI should have definitely gotten that award, as well as direction. And the Tony won by Hinton Battle was also undeserved. There was no role there. But the category was incredibly weak (however one person not nominated who should have been was Dick Latessa for Will Rogers Follies).

Don't really know why Ms. Tran would take a job at Playbill, whose owners only care about advertising and keeping everyone in the industry happy. Her whole career has been made by acting as the champion for racial equity in the theater. She wrote a scathing takedown of Miss Saigon, among other stories of the same ilk (though chickened out on publishing the #MeToo story while at American Theatre Mag.). Honestly don't think she'll last a year.

[Quote] I suspect many of the denizens of the Datalounge civilization do much more than remember slings.

I think most Dennisons of the Datalounge civilization don’t remember much, except Follies

R315 is a prime example of why someone should not post under the influence of powerful mind altering drugs. Or if one is insane or a victim of dementia.

[quote]I think most Dennisons of the Datalounge civilization don’t remember much, except Follies

I think Phyllis was more of a sling gal than Sally was.

Anyone else hear Cheno has backed out of another major new musical, one that was all set to announce?

When the plant sings FEED ME SEYMOUR will Matt feed him his massive cock?

Sure, nice cock, but how are his balls?

Jeff Goldblum in talks to be the Wizard in the Wicked movies

Nancy and Paul are such a good looking couple.

^ oops....but aren't they?

[quote] Jeff Goldblum in talks to be the Wizard in the Wicked movies

Great casting.

Is Diep Tran a Phyllis or a Sally?

Cheno needs to play Tammy Faye when that London musical comes to Broadway!

R284- I’ve seen it on YouTube twice and love it. Carradine, Hoty, Latessa, and Guffman are great and I love the songs. I’d welcome a revival so I can see it live.

Diep Tran is a Miss Wong, r327.

^ from Mimeo

What was the Cheno musical? Were they going to have her play Miranda in Devil Wears Prada?

Once On This Island will always be one of my favorite theater experiences. LaChanze was radiant and amazing, and the show was just exciting and thrilling. Simple but beautifully staged, acted, and sung. WRF is forgotten garbage. It never should have won, and Keith Carradine was underpowered and forgettable.

Cy Coleman was only good in the 60s. The rest of his stuff is tedious or awful. Like that Horny Receptionist number from Seesaw. Dorothy Fields must have had dementia.

Exactly, r334. There's a reason people don't do it. Musicalizing The Fourposter made sense, but what is in Two for the Seesaw that cried out for second-rate songs?

And good lord, what a shitty 11:00 number for Michele.

r333, I bought my "Once On This Island" ticket off TKTS. I didn't know that much about it and went in with a pessimistic attitude. That original production completely won me over. I now consider that production one of the top ten best Broadway shows I've ever seen. It was a beautiful show, excellent cast, simply, yet very imaginatively, staged. I gave it a standing ovation because the cast earned it. I felt sorry for their performance on the Tony Awards because the show didn't translate well. It was so much better in person.

I thought Seesaw was terrible but that number with Michele Lee is even worse than I remembered. These are the people who wrote Sweet Charity? It seems that in the 70s the talent of the old guard simply vanished.

Nobody Does it Like Me, We've Got It, and It's Not Where You Start are all good Seesaw songs.

R309, then it’s a good thing her character doesn’t make the helicopter

Watching THE PAJAMA GAME and feeling like I’m high. That picnic! My husband is reminiscing about seeing the show on Broadway as a teen. John Raitt has a face for radio.

[quote]It seems that in the 70s the talent of the old guard simply vanished.

Weren't they predicting the death of Broadway in the '70s?

The city almost went bankrupt, too.

And that even partially inspired a song in Seesaw! The show's not a classic, but there's some fun to be had. "We've Got It" is endearingly goofy. And this one includes "I love New York!" five years before the campaign.

[quote]then it’s a good thing her character doesn’t make the helicopter

That could be a whole show by itself. I'm seeing a combination of "Hands on a Hardbody" "Drood" and "Titanic." Fantasia weighs the helicopter down and so each person in the helicopter gets a song about whether they should let Fantasia stay or push her out so they can escape. At intermission, the audience could vote whether she should stay in the helicopter or be pushed out.

Charity's number in the same spot isn't great either, r338. Those are both brassy numbers, r339. Maybe they just weren't good at writing the "I'm devastated, where will I go, but gee it was all worth it and I'm better and stronger for it!" kind of number.

Screw you all! It's 36 years after that Tony clip here, bitches!

Sorry Michele, it's an overwrought number that not even Babs could make work.

[quote]Cy Coleman was only good in the 60s. The rest of his stuff is tedious or awful.

I wouldn't say that. His later shows have lots of flaws, but I really don't think the music is the problem, even if it's not quite as good as his earlier stuff.

Well, I saw SEESAW at least 3 times and just loved it. I also it on tour with Lucie Arnaz and John Gavin and loved it even more.

Most of today's new musicals are dreary in comparison.

Seesaw: The title song, Nobody Does It Like Me, Welcome to Holiday Inn, Poor Everybody Else, It's Not Where You Start---how many other scores can boast as many terrific songs (certainly no contemporary score of the last 20 years)? And even if the rest aren't top-drawer, Larry Fallon's absolutely brilliant orchestrations make up the difference.

It has such a '70s sound, r349.

[quote] "I'm devastated, where will I go, but gee it was all worth it and I'm better and stronger for it!"

Wow, that's the entire theme of the theatrical abortion that was " King Kong, the Musical." It became a female empowerment show in which the heroine betrays Kong in order to get a movie part and then, after he is killed, she ends the show with a song about how everything has empowered HER. It's horrible, but consistent with the bastardization of Broadway.

And Seesaw didn't have a gimmick.

"It has such a '70s sound, [R349]."

And Shakespeare is written in Elizabethan verse--so what? Like Charles Ives wrote, "What does music have to do with sound?"

Seesaw sucked ass.

Speaking of the 70s...

What do we think of this song from ALMOST FAMOUS?

Why *was* Lainie let go? She certainly could sing it.

The director was switched. And he had no time for Lainie, she said.

Lainie got a bit fat in rehearsals, no?

Why was she hired for The Women, then?

Lainie's ass was so fat, she broke the seesaw.

TOO MUCH FOR THE SEESAW.

Bennett didn’t think she looked like a dancer. She was fired but finished the out of town tryout while her friend Michelle Lee rehearsed the changes for broadway during the day. Ouch.

[quote]Bennett didn’t think she looked like a dancer

Yeah, r363, Lainie and her bazongas boucin' around.

I’m Way Ahead is really a sub-standard 11 o’clock number. I can’t imagine Lainie could have made it work, either.

Lainie's interpretive talents could be way off the mark.

Lest anyone ever say it can’t be done... and sung… persuasively.

I just listened to that song from Almost Famous. I've never heard anything like it.

I'm so happy they found a cure for your deafness, R368

Dear haters, time to get off Cy Coleman’s case. If you can’t appreciate his musical genius, time for you to stop imposing your musical ignorance and lousy taste on your betters. Cy was the last of the Golden Age composers (SS excepted of course) who really knew in the depth of his being how music can enhance the theatrical experience and yet not shy away from a little originality now and then. And btw WRF was a delight from beginning to end in every department and I pity you if you think any one of those three turds should have gotten the fucking Tony that year. (And yes, Barnum is pretty much a dog, but whaddya want? It’s circus music (one step above military music) for chrissakes.

Your taste is in your ass.

How triggering is this? I have no idea, but I assume somehow it is…

[quote]And Seesaw didn't have a gimmick.

R353 = Miss Mazeppa

[quote] Eddie is morphing into Brigitte Nielsen.

He wishes! More like Rachel Roberts with a Brigitte Nielsen dyejob and hairdo.

The 70s was a terrible period for Broadway musicals. There are a few good ones from that era (mostly by Sondheim), but almost everything else from then has either terribly dated or has become Diane Paulus fodder, or both.

Does anyone have links to any of the first Theatre Gossip threads?

The earliest I can find is #181.

I'm curious what the FIRST thread was like.

Bitchy I'm guessing.

Some long winded discussion about Follies probably.

[quote]Your taste is in your ass.

Pics please.

Well, I found #50

Fascinating discussions about Scarlett Johannson winning a Tony.

The Cy Coleman scores to both "On the Twentieth Century" (1978) and "Barnum" (1980) are both excellent, what are you talking about?

What about City of Angels? That's another really excellent later-career Colman score.

I Love My Wife has some fun songs too. Supposedly Ethel Merman wanted to record “Everybody Today is Turning On,” but the drug-friendly lyrics made her uncomfortable.

R378 What I remember most about the 2010 Tonys was Sutton Foster's brother and his wife and others bitching afterward about movie stars Denzel Washington, Viola Davis, Catherine Zeta-Jones, and Scarlett Johansson winning that night.

It became a cause célèbre for several stage actors.

Hunter Foster even started a Facebook group called "Give the Tonys Back to Broadway."

Thus, Daniel Radcliffe was snubbed the following year for HOW TO SUCCEED IN BUSINESS WITHOUT REALLY TRYING.

OTTC and Barnum have terrible scores. Century had a great cast and spectacular product and Barnum had Jim Dale. Bigger Isn't Better?

That clip with Tune doing It's Not Where You Start is torture. When I saw it as we left some middle aged queen was talking about how terrible it was and he was right!

The best song in I Love My Wife is a complete rip off of Honey Bun.

I disliked Seesaw so much I didn't go back to see it with John Gavin and now I could kick myself.

Thanks r378. Fun. 2010 seems like medieval history.

[Quote] Did anybody attend the recent workshop of CHARLIE AND THE CHOCOLATE FACTORY? Score by Shaiman/Wittman and directed by Sam Mendes. Starred Brooks Ashmanskas as Willy Wonka.

That Wonka must have had major pedo vibes. Maybe it would have been better. I can just hear Brooks knowingly offeriing the kiddos his everlasting gobstopper.

Not sure why I suddenly want to see this

"LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA - OCTOBER 20: (L-R) Billy Porter and Anderson .Paak are seen as Dom Pérignon and Lady Gaga pursue their creative dialogue at Sheats Goldstein Residence on October 20, 2022 in Los Angeles, California. (Photo by Kevin Mazur/Getty Images for Dom Pérignon)"

R350, you think those songs are good?

City Of Angels is a very fun score, R380. One of my favorites.

Billy Porter IS Gittel Mosca!

[quote]OTTC and Barnum have terrible scores.

[quote]The best song in I Love My Wife is a complete rip off of Honey Bun.

The deafness you demonstrate in your second comment explains the opinion you expressed in your first comment.

[quote] Cy Coleman was only good in the 60s. The rest of his stuff is tedious or awful.

[quote] I wouldn't say that. His later shows have lots of flaws, but I really don't think the music is the problem, even if it's not quite as good as his earlier stuff.

[quote] Well, I saw SEESAW at least 3 times and just loved it.

[quote] Seesaw sucked ass.

[quote] Your taste is in your ass.

[quote] The Cy Coleman scores to both "On the Twentieth Century" (1978) and "Barnum" (1980) are both excellent, what are you talking about?

[quote] If you can’t appreciate his musical genius, time for you to stop imposing your musical ignorance and lousy taste on your betters.

[quote] how many other scores can boast as many terrific songs

[quote] OTTC and Barnum have terrible scores.

[quote] how many other scores can boast as many terrific songs

[quote] you think those songs are good?

DL discourse is so...so.

[quote]Jeff Goldblum in talks to be the Wizard in the Wicked movies

I never miss a Jeff Goldblum musical.

R387, It's a vanity production that got mostly terrible reviews, and that guy is hot only to those who are turned on by low-rent hustlers. So if that floats your boat....

Why is Brick a white male? Hasn't this show been re-imagined for a modern audience?

For DL Trolls, apparently “woke” is defined as “containing black actors.”

I saw the opera Medea last night at the MET.

While Sondra Radvanovsky was incredible in the title role, what completely boring music! There’s a good reason we don’t see this revived much

It isn’t, R397?

Well, I do think it primarily means “shoehorning black actors into roles in which they’re not necessarily right for in a historical or social context.”

[quote] There’s a good reason we don’t see this revived much

So I assumed, which is why I skipped it. Presumably, Callas spent time with this because of the drama in the libretto, not the music. Radvanosky is amazing, but there are lots of opportunities to see her in better operas. She was superb in TOSCA.

Mimi Hines doing a decent job with “People.”

Certainly better than Beanie and Benko.

this isn't an opera thread. take it elsewhere divas.

It's about time we got a new production of Cat on Hot Tin Roof in NYC!

Wondering how many in this thread are under the age of 50. Concert halls and theaters are now offering anywhere from 30%-50% off ticket prices to younger audience members, 35 and under if I remember correctly.

You fossils look at diversity as the death knell but younger audiences are fine with it and in order to survive live entertainment needs to appeal to different sensibilities.

Whine all you want but change needs to happen and happen fast to get a new younger crowd interested. Also, white people are not the majority in the US anymore so relying on a white audience means you are only attempting to draw half, or less than half the US population and then an even smaller portion who want to see concerts or live theater. Things have shifted and the violence we see and desperation from white power groups has to do with the downsizing of a white majority. Go ahead and keep your death grip on things but you will kill what you are trying desperately to hold on to.

These Marys see melanin and their brains explode

Then kill it, R404. Because if sustaining it means more shit like the new 1776, I'd rather it just die.

I suspect it will outlive you r406.

[quote]Concert halls and theaters are now offering anywhere from 30%-50% off ticket prices to younger audience members, 35 and under if I remember correctly.

Umm, when people complain about aggressively "woke" shows, operas, etc., this is obviously not what they're talking about. What are YOU talking about?

[quote] You fossils look at diversity as the death knell but younger audiences are fine with it and in order to survive live entertainment needs to appeal to different sensibilities.

Yeah, one look at the box office grosses in the past year blows your piddling theory right out of the water. Good luck with it.

For the next thread, can we spend ~300 posts bitching about Bock & Harnick?

[Quote] Well, I do think it primarily means “shoehorning black actors into roles in which they’re not necessarily right for in a historical or social context.”

And yet they call “A Strange Loop” woke.

[Quote] Well, I do think it primarily means “shoehorning black actors into roles in which they’re not necessarily right for in a historical or social context.”

Theater is about being creative and reflecting the time it’s being performed.

Interesting that the ONLY criteria the trolls use is race. Romeo and Juliet is only fine if they’re white. Who cares if they aren’t the right height, weight, age, etc….

r409 at some point they have to transition from appealing to the older crowd to enticing younger audiences. It seems like they are working out how to do that, new territory, there is no road map could take minute.

The term woke came from the Black community as a way to mean "I was blind but now I see". It took hold during the Trump admin amid all the protests over Black shootings. From the Black community "woke" was then dragged into white mainstream by some white asshole who mines Black culture for new fodder for white pop culture.

[Quote] Yeah, one look at the box office grosses in the past year blows your piddling theory right out of the water. Good luck with it.

The shows are shitty; we’re coming out of pandemic; ticket prices are insane so overly rely on tourist, most of whom aren’t coming to NYC right now.

THAT’s why theater is doing badly. No one wants to go to yet another jukebox musical or a movie to stage transfer—and yet that’s what they keep hoisting on us.

R413, and then the right wing took “woke” to mean “includes black people.”

r409 you do know that the "woke" ones might be diverse in what shows they choose to see.

[Quote] Wondering how many in this thread are under the age of 50. Concert halls and theaters are now offering anywhere from 30%-50% off ticket prices to younger audience members, 35 and under if I remember correctly.

It’s too late

[quote] [R409] at some point they have to transition from appealing to the older crowd to enticing younger audiences. It seems like they are working out how to do that, new territory, there is no road map could take minute.

Sweetie, younger audiences aren't going to pay these prices. Younger audiences, especially that of the "woke" (your word) variety don't want to pay any price for anything, especially entertainment. They were raised on streaming and bootlegging. They have an unrealistic expectation of what things should cost. (Zero.) And they think they are entitled to such.

[Quote] this isn't an opera thread. take it elsewhere divas.

Let’s talk about the MET.

Interestingly, I saw more young gays than usual lately at the MET. They seem to come out for the hits but aren’t particularly regular opera goers anymore.

[quote] The shows are shitty; we’re coming out of pandemic; ticket prices are insane so overly rely on tourist, most of whom aren’t coming to NYC right now. THAT’s why theater is doing badly. No one wants to go to yet another jukebox musical or a movie to stage transfer—and yet that’s what they keep hoisting on us.

Your theory can be blown up with one word- Leopoldstadt.

It's grossed more than all the "woke shows" over the past 12 months laid end to end. And it's a play. And it has no stars. And it doesn't pander.

r418 are you reading all the posts? Concert halls and theaters offer steep discounts to those under 35, talking 30% -50% off regular prices. Maybe they aren't doing that in New York? If not they better start thinking about it.

Adele, who admits she’s not a fan of musicals, says she saw Gypsy in London and could do a great job with “Rose’s Turn.”

I think she’d be great in Blood Brothers, though. But they’d have to change the setting from Liverpool to London.

[quote]Also, white people are not the majority in the US anymore so relying on a white audience means you are only attempting to draw half, or less than half the US population and then an even smaller portion who want to see concerts or live theater.

Where do you get your info?

White Americans are still the majority at 61% of the population; around 70% if you include white Hispanics.

Latinos are 19%.

Blacks 13%.

Asians 6%.

Yes, R421, I saw the post. Big deal. You can get 30-50% off at TKTS and somewhere around that with just the garden variety discounts on Playbill. That's still expensive and they still will balk. As I said- this generation feels entitled to get their entertainment as cheaply as possible, whether they can afford it or not, and preferably get it for free, or they skip it. Because it's what they were brought up to expect. And the "woke" are even worse because they feel that because they are (fill in the blank) they are entitled to free everything. (And I'm not necessarily speaking of race, but of anyone who dyes their hair pink and decides it makes them "queer.")

worst thread ever?

r420 Woke does not mean Black people or Black related. Leopoldstadt could be thought of as "woke".

Woke is about "I was blind but now I see". The rose colored glasses came off. Somebody slapped some sense into you. You took your head out of your ass. You woke up to some stark truths about life.

r423 where do you get YOUR info?

[quote]And the "woke" are even worse because they feel that because they are (fill in the blank) they are entitled to free everything. (And I'm not necessarily speaking of race, but of anyone who dyes their hair pink and decides it makes them "queer.")

Sweetheart you have a lot of things confused and mashed together in your head. Unless you use woke to mean that someone came to realization or harsh understanding about something they may have been deluded or ignorant about, then you are using it incorrectly.

Woke isn't bleeding heart liberals or those far left loonies that don't bother to question whether their support for things makes rational sense.

Is r387’s production the same staging that was in London with just a different cast ?

Thank you for that, r378. That thread was a really fun read, and shows how much less fun the site is now. Also interesting to see what's still being discussed 12 years later (Steggert's cock was still being discussed just a few threads ago!).

Steggart's nudes leaked, so of course his cock was discussed recently.

Love Coleman's music, too, but they all make better cast recordings than shows.

r431, the fact that Steggert is evidently still relevant enough for his nudes for leak and for people to care is the point. But thanks for playing.

Nudes leak all the time. It doesn't mean the person is "relevant."

R429, certainly not.

So. Anyone want to tell the details about the super secret invitation only Sondheim memorial next month Surely at least one of you queens is on the list.

R420, but the word-of-mouth on Leopoldstadt is terrible.

I was going to go, but after the 8th person told me how disappointing/dull/bad it was, I decided not to. Still have not heard a single person say they they liked it. (They all like the last scene. But that is all.)

You've just described 3/4 of all Stoppard shows, R437. What does that have to do with the fact that it's making money hand over fist? Nothing.

And I've already got my outfit picked out, r436.

[quote]Nobody Does it Like Me, We've Got It, and It's Not Where You Start are all good Seesaw songs.

Carol Burnett and Alan Alda performed "Nobody" in a Christmas skit on The Carol Burnett Show:

But no one remembers that, R440, because the only non-embarrassing things from the Carol Burnett Show are the Mama sketches.

I Love My Wife was very entertaining (for those of us who go to the theatre to be entertained). Bringing the Smothers Brothers in was probably one of the earliest cases of stunt casting but they were perfectly cast and it worked. After they left JImmy Walker from Good Times was supposed to come in with an all black cast but he backed out and the show closed soon after with his replacement. Then along came AIDS and a musical about sexual exploration and wife swapping didn’t seem cute anymore and it pretty much became a forgotten musical. Sad.

r438 I saw Arcadia in its first run at The National - longest three years of my life.

R443, but not as unbearable as THE COAST OF UTOPIA, aka the longest 33 years of my life.

[quote]Adele, who admits she’s not a fan of musicals, says she saw Gypsy in London and could do a great job with “Rose’s Turn.”

She overestimates her alleged talents

The LTC production production of Arcadia was sublime.

David Leveaux's production was garbage.

Bill Heck transforms the return of Take Me Out. He is now the anchor of the piece that way Patrick J. Adams never was. A quietly astonishing performance.

[quote]Interesting that the ONLY criteria the trolls use is race. Romeo and Juliet is only fine if they’re white.

But DL's race-obsessed posters insist that Italians aren't white.

[quote]Romeo and Juliet is only fine if they’re white.

And better when one is white and one is black...n'est-ce pas?

Here’s what I’m guessing about the Sondheim memorial.

Bernadette Peters is invited and VIP

Patti LuPone is invited…but not VIP

Betty Buckley just read about it on Datalounge

I'd like to hear more about that, R447. And any other observations about the cast (improving? stagnating?).

[Quote] Your theory can be blown up with one word- Leopoldstadt. It's grossed more than all the "woke shows" over the past 12 months laid end to end. And it's a play. And it has no stars. And it doesn't pander.

And this play, like every other play, will last only about a year. After the NY Jewish audience has seen it (that audience is particularly interested in it), there will be no other audience.

R452 How Long Did Fat Usher musical run again?

Isn’t Leopoldstadt having a limited season, anyway? 16 weeks or so?

So what? Why are you all trying to pretend that Leopoldstadt is not actually a hit?

[quote] How Long Did Fat Usher musical run again?

Because it’s woke?

More proof that the definition of work is “containing black actors”

[Quote] So what? Why are you all trying to pretend that Leopoldstadt is not actually a hit?

It’s a hit. That’s great. But it doesn’t negate that ticket prices are high and doesn’t mean at all that work plays won’t be hits. Hamilton defines woke and it’s the biggest hit of this generation.

[Quote] Isn’t Leopoldstadt having a limited season, anyway? 16 weeks or so?

I’m sure it will extend if it’s truly a hit, not no play lasts long nowadays

You don't even know what you're arguing, R457.

Sure I do. Go back through the thread and check out how the argument has evolved.

[Quote] But DL's race-obsessed posters insist that Italians aren't white.

Italians are white when it’s convenient for the trolls

Did anyone attend the NY Phil gala performance with Bernadette, Vanessa Williams, Renee Fleming, Brian Stokes Mitchell, Brandon Victor Dixon, Sara Bareilles, Joaquina Kalukango, Lin Manuel Miranda...?

Sounds like a lineup tailor made for PBS.

R456 No, because it won every single award going, but it is shit so people are not going.

Well I don't think NY has had such a prestige hit in quite a number of years. One that anyone who has any pretentions to being an intellectual has to see but nobody likes.

Pretensions

Thank you. Clearly I have no pretensions to being an intellectual.

Leopoldstadt is one of Stoppard's most straightforward plays. Apart from keeping track of the sprawling family, it's not difficult to follow. I just was struck by how it really doesn't have a lot of fresh insight. It's smart and ambitious, huge and well-performed, but it left me cold - and I really went in wanting to have a visceral emotional response to it. It also has a plot development (involving David Krumholtz's character) that seems so preposterous, I can't imagine how it hasn't been mentioned by any critic on either side of the Atlantic. I wouldn't say it's a terrible play by any means, but it really just reaffirms everything you already know going in.

[quote]At a registered address in downstate Illinois, four men convicted of sex crimes share a group home where they live out their days post-incarceration. When a man shows up to confront his childhood abuser, it becomes hard to locate the line between justice and retribution. This gripping, provocative new play from Pulitzer Prize winner Bruce Norris zeroes in on the limits of compassion and forgiveness.

Anyone see this in Chicago or London? It just opened at Playwrights Horizons in NY. Thorny subject matter... to put it lightly.

[quote]OTTC and Barnum have terrible scores.

You're out of your mind.

[quote]R399 I do think [woke] primarily means “shoehorning black actors into roles in which they’re not necessarily right for in a historical or social context.”

If we were sticking to “historical and social context” then Shakespeare plays would only have male casts and Greek tragedy would still be performed in masks.

If turning Broadway into Las Vegas is what's supposed to bring the younger crowds in, I'll take a pass.

KPOP, &Juliet, Beautiful Noise, Moulin Rouge, etc etc etc. Yuck.

[quote]Well, I do think it primarily means “shoehorning black actors into roles in which they’re not necessarily right for in a historical or social context.”

"....for the enjoyment of white audiences"

[quote]Theater is about being creative and reflecting the time it’s being performed.

Huh?

Links, please.

Oh God those Cy Coleman St. James scores are the pits.

GO WOKE, GO BROKE.

[quote] But no one remembers that, [R440], because the only non-embarrassing things from the Carol Burnett Show are the Mama sketches.

Lol. You’re dumb as fuck.

R451-Jesse is much sharper and a lot funnier. His timing with Jesse Williams is perfect.

R458-The actors' contracts for Leopoldstadt run through June.

[quote]Whine all you want but change needs to happen and happen fast to get a new younger crowd interested

Then Broadway shows need to be available on phones.

My "complaint" about woke Broadway is that diversity and inclusion means "black", exclusively. I couldn't care less if a show is cast with a diverse list of performers. However, wouldn't it be nice to spend just as much effort finding Hispanic, Asian, and Native Americans who can do the parts just as well? If Broadway is truly interested in diversity, we need more than just " In the Heights" or " Miss Saigon" to offer employment opportunities to other " diverse" performers. " Black" is not the exclusive property of the meaning of " diversity," and white producers and casting directors should buy into this or the "inclusion" claim is just more bullshit.

What would you say, Wise Casting People, about the crop of 80s-90s musical theatre women? Why didn't any of them have modern versions of a Merman or Martin or Verdon or even Carol Channing career?

The shows just weren't there? The talent? The starpower?

Is Take Me Out as awful as those leaked clips suggest? Dicks aside, the dialogue in those shower scenes is awful, and the story sounds like a bore.

That Fat Usher musical is a true crapfest.

Yes, R482. The play had some relevancy at the time of its original run but now just seems old hat, and the dicks, of which you can see better at any Equinox in Manhattan (including quite a few of the cast) aren’t enough to really carry it.

[quote]The play had some relevancy at the time of its original run

Not everything can be A Thousand Clowns

R484 Just Jesse go there?

There's one exchange in Take Me Out that surprised me, the one where the two Jesses' conversation gets on the subject of recognizing a gay charity, or one involving children, ideas get crossed and the joke is JTF's mind being blown at the concept of self-identifying gay children.

As we approach the historic Theatre Gossip thread #500 can someone suggest an epic header?

R476, waiting for some examples.

Carol Burnett will soon enter the ranks of comics that have aged so badly that people will be wondering why earlier generations found her so funny.

Elton's Tammy Faye musical seemed to get either four star or two star reviews. Given the only review by an American critic I could find (Johnny Oleksinski) panned it, I'd trust the two star reviews more.

Julie Sings Sondheim

I never miss a Jake Shears musical.

THEATRE GOSSIP #500: Quincentenary Follies Edition

[quote]R488 As we approach the historic Theatre Gossip thread #500 can someone suggest an epic header? waiting for some examples.

Salty Dussault,.. something something. I found the text of a bitchy TV Guide article on her I can cut + paste.

That's a shit title

Can't imagine why the Sondheim memorial (if it really exists) should be secret. Just issue tickets to the invitees. If they opened it up to the public, they could fill MSG.

They don't want the riff-raff, r497.

Steve was never popular with the hoi polloi.

You never know what Criswell will do to make a scene.

I wanted to see the off-Broadway Cat on a Hot Tin Roof, but I missed it. I’m glad it’s coming back, but was it really badly reviewed? (I guess I could look it up.)

Drama over at The Lion King.

[quote]“Disney & Lion King management allowed me to be SEXUALLY HARASSED, STALKED, THREATENED, DISRESPECTED, TAUNTED, TORMENTED, GAS-LIT, BULLIED & INTENTIONALLY PLACED IN UNSAFE SITUATIONS by a sociopathic, manipulative & dangerously director,” James said.

Can You Feel the Gaslighting Tonight

The Cost of LIving is a good new play that deserves to run a while. Is it "woke"? It only has 4 characters, one is black and two disabled white actors. The disabilities are central to the story and the fact that they are played by disabled actors adds to the power of the story.

If it's woke, I love it.

I saw Cat with Kathleen Turner. On the downstage left corner was a bar and a barstool set up. Before the show a woman in the front row stood up and moved the stool and pushed the bar. The usher immediately came down and told her she couldn't do that. In a loud voice that echoed throughout the section, she shouted," But, I can't see anything." He told her that if she touched anything else, she would be escorted from the theater. She also chomped on candy throughout the entire show and talked to her companion for the whole show. She didn't ruin the play, as it was excellent. But, I wanted to bash her over the head with the barstool.

R505. Good thing she didn’t pull that shit at Company.

[quote]In a loud voice that echoed throughout the section, she shouted," But, I can't see anything." He told her that if she touched anything else, she would be escorted from the theater.

Did she mention that her Kusturica movie was the hit of all of Europe and Cannes?

possible next thread idea: It's the Fantasy 500th performance of FOLLIES in its 500th Production Around the World, Back on Broadway, and You Pick the Cast!

kind of like most of us have been doing for the first 499 of these threads! But at least it's consistent.

Cast the movie version. Bernadette is Hattie.

THEATRE GOSSIP #500: It Always Comes Back to FOLLIES, So Time to Bring On Those Beautiful Girls, Cause We're Still HERE!

[quote][R488] As we approach the historic Theatre Gossip thread #500 can someone suggest an epic header? waiting for some examples.

Theatre Gossip #500: 1776 2.0: Mx. Porkalob's Revenge

It's my first attempt, but I still think it's funny.

We will hunt you down, r512.

Porky's not important enough. FOLLIES is.

Theatre Gossip #500: “All You Have To Do Is Crook Your Little…” Edition

No, r515.

Theatre Gossip #500: The DL Goes for Booze and Dope Edition

[quote]You never know what Criswell will do to make a scene.

Like what? Rise from a coffin to introduce the proceedings?

Theatre Gossip #500: The When Did I Eat Corn? Edition

[quote]Theatre Gossip #500: The When Did I Eat Corn? Edition

Yeah, that old chestnut isn't tired at all.

How about just the We're Still Here part, r511.

THEATRE GOSSIP #500: Muriel's Menches: We're Still HEEERE, Dammit!

Dear god. Dear sweet merciful god.

We are not even through with thread 499 and we are already arguing about the title of thread 500.

New thread: THEATRE GOSSIP #375: It's 75% of 500

THEATRE GOSSIP #500: The "We're Halfway Through 1,000 and We're HERE! We're Still HERE!" Edition

Theatre Gossip #500: The "We Got Through Herbert and J. Edgar Hoover,...and 499 Gossip Posts" Edition

Theatre Gossip #500: The "All The Chorus Boy Dick Pix We've Been Holding Out On For The Last 499 Posts" Edition

What's going on here with Jim Parsons, in A Man of No Importance, plastic surgery watchers? Just fillers?

I believe he has developed resting twee face r528.

Jim parson’s face has always looked like a mix between a boiled potato and a slapped ass.

He was [italic] born [/italic] with resting twee face.

[quote] “Disney & Lion King management allowed me to be SEXUALLY HARASSED, STALKED, THREATENED, DISRESPECTED, TAUNTED, TORMENTED, GAS-LIT, BULLIED & INTENTIONALLY PLACED IN UNSAFE SITUATIONS by a sociopathic, manipulative & dangerously director,” James said.

Bad bitch wanted some BBC.

Face like a dropped pie.

[Quote] The Cost of LIving is a good new play that deserves to run a while. Is it "woke"? It only has 4 characters, one is black and two disabled white actors. The disabilities are central to the story and the fact that they are played by disabled actors adds to the power of the story. If it's woke, I love it.

Yes.

According to the DL trolls, plays must only be about abled white people or else it’s labeled woke

yes r534 you've made your point.

THEATER GOSSIP THREAD #500: FUCK " FOLLIES."

R467, I think what Leopoldstadt is saying that is new, or at least pitched at our time, is in the contrast between the confidence of the family, and especially its intellectuals, in the first scene and what actually happens. I think Stoppard is telling us no liberal can ever take his or her current position for granted: that the malign, chaotic forces identified in the surrealist Klimt Faculty paintings of which they speak in the play are always there to tear down what sophisticated, educated liberals think of as an inexorable project of increasing civilization. If NY Jews are the only Americans seeing the play that is indeed a pity, because they do already know.

The person or people on here who keep/s saying Stoppard is only watched for the snob value is a dick who just means the plays are difficult, which is sometimes true, but many theatregoers really, honestly like complex plays. Leopoldstadt is not even that. As R467 said, it is quite straightforward. Some of his early plays WERE clever for the sake of being clever, but that has not been the case for decades.

THEATER GOSSIP THREAD #500: Why bother?

THEATRE GOSSIP THREAD #500: Is That All There Is?

This thread is worse than AIDS…

Says someone who wasn't alive during the AIDS epidemic.

r504 [quote]The Cost of LIving is a good new play that deserves to run a while. Is it "woke"?

People are woke ie. awakened, things are not woke.

I just finished David Loud's autobiography and highly recommend it. Great stories, and a very poignant thread through about his struggles with Parkinson's. Much better than that crabby queen who worked with Sondheim and also wrote a book, Paul Ford.

Oh my .. I didn't think it was possible for Jim Parsons to get any uglier - but I was wrong.

Jim Parsons was never a great beauty, but he also wasn’t terrible looking. Whatever he has done to his face recently, however, was deeply misguided. He is almost unrecognizable now. He fully looks like an elderly woman in the posters for his new movie.

He looks a bit like Ann Miller. But without the glamour or mesquite.

THEATRE GOSSIP #500: We’re Still Here Talking About Follies (and Beanie) Edition

Jim Parsons has always been a one trick pony. I remember seeing him in a small role in an indie film a year or so before TBBT, never having heard of him before. I thought- Oh, he's interesting. He has presence and can act. Little did I know it was the same performance he'd be giving throughout the rest of his career with minuscule tweaks here and there.

THEATRE GOSSIP #500: Scenes from a Dungeon - The Stephen Sondheim Memorial

Botox is the devil. Lighter colored hair is the way to go.

Happy 19th Bday, WICKED!

Is it really a 19th birthday when they didn't run for a year and a half.

^ sure, why not. It’s been 19 years since the opening date. I lost two years during the pandemic but I’m not deducting them from my age.

Well, R553, you were still running.

R537, I completely agree with your first paragraph and strongly disagree with your second. Many of Stoppard's plays -- and not just his early works -- are far more difficult and unengaging for the audience than they need to be due to various factors, including too many characters and/or too much theoretical talk. A prime example of this was the unendurable, sleep-inducing COAST OF UTOPIA.

I would say LEOPOLDSTADT is one of Stoppard's most compelling plays because it's literally impossible for anyone, even him, to write about the Holocaust (and what led to it and came afterwards) in a non-gripping way. But even here, the first half or so of the play is nowhere near as engaging as it could have been if there were fewer characters and less of all that theoretical chatter. I've heard several people say, "You have to go into this telling yourself not to worry about keeping all of the family relationships straight." To which I respond, if a huge disclaimer like that is necessary, then I'm sorry, but the playwriting is severely flawed.

Stoppard doesn’t work in those huge theaters. If you’re sitting up in the balcony, it’s difficult to hear and in talky plays, you can lose the plot quickly.

THEATRE GOSSIP #500: The Adele Dazeem Sings Selections from Follies Edition

[quote]He looks a bit like Ann Miller. But without the glamour or mesquite.

MESQUITE? I know she was from Texas, but that's a bit odd.

I always thought she smelled funny.

Thread 500 should be dedicated to DataLounge: The Musical.

Meghan Mullally *is* Young Muriel.

Poor Jim. Now it's so obvious Todd is the younger of the two. Ain't no scalpels goin near that purty face.

Speaking of Megan Mullally, she was once the front runner to play Sally in Follies at one point. If you Google Follies and Megan Mullally, a lot comes up.

[quote]Meghan Mullally *is* Young Muriel.

Thin ice, motherfucker. Thin fucking ice.

Jesse Williams *is* the Dream Boyfriend.

Andrew Rannells singing Elton John? Now why in hell would anyone want to endure that?

Andrew Rannells sucking your cock? Why would anyone want to endure THAT?

Megan looking rough interviewing the late Leslie jordan in Sept

R566 had a couple of ribs removed because he desperately needed a blow job and no creature on earth wanted to give him one.

Bring the whole family!!!!!!!!!

Joy Behar Performer Michael Davis Performer Dorothy Loudon Performer Mort Sahl Performer

R548, He was horrible as Henry Willson in the “Hollywood” series.

Megan seems to back out of shows a lot. I still don’t understand why the Roundabout cancelled Lips Together.... instead of just replacing her.

[quote]He was horrible as Henry Willson in the “Hollywood” series.

I could have lived without seeing him perform the Dance of the Seven Veils in one scene.

[quote]I still don’t understand why the Roundabout cancelled Lips Together.... instead of just replacing her.

My guess is because they are star fuckers and she was the biggest name involved.

Maybe the Roundabout issue wasn’t with Megan…but with the person she had a problem with. Said person has a reputation for being difficult as well. But said person is always working…so who knows?

Patton Oswalt?

As for replacing her, she quit one month before opening night, that'd be quite a challenge to recast so quickly, even more so with the ego issues of being seen as the replacement for the first choice, etc

[r575] Megan said in her podcast that Patton was not the problem she had with that production, but that story was something the producers put out there to explain her leaving - and that the real problem she had was with someone else in the production. She didn’t name him…but he had a wicked time taking me out.

Obviously you mean Mantello, but really, why would the producers "put out" the story that Megan had a problem with Oswalt? I have little if any respect for the Roundabout, but why would they do something like that, ESPECIALLY if it wasn't true?

More on the Lips conflict

Here are the Deadline articles referenced in the last one. The initial story was it was Mantello she had issues with:

Then the followup where "several sources" claimed she tried to have Oswalt replaced. That's the story I remembered, so I was surprised when he showed up on the Will & Grace reboot a few years ago, with all of his scenes opposite Mullally. Which would seem to indicate they'd buried the hatchet...or he wasn't the one she'd had issues with at all.

I want to know what happened with the last season of the reboot of Will and Grace. Why did Megan leave? She seems to have ✨issues✨with colleagues.

Messing hitting her in the head with a fondue pot was the last straw, r581.

Who are the two well-known actors, mentioned in the Comments section of one of the articles above, who banned Mantello from rehearsals? I believe they were referencing a production prior to the Mullaly/Oswalt flap so I guess it wasn't Glenda Jackson and Laurie Metcalf.

Edie Falco & Stanley Tucci, Frankie and Johnny?

Matthew Broderick & Nathan Lane, The Odd Couple?

Julia Roberts & Bradley Cooper and/or Paul Rudd, Three Days of Rain?

Nathan Lane & Laurie Metcalf, November?

What’s amazing is Patti LuPone and Joe Mantello keep sharing scenes on tv shows. How does anyone survive these turbocunts?

They're the Wonder Twins of cuntery!

R581 Let me tell you about Deb Messing.....

Wow Jesse green cannot write at all anymore if he ever could

[Quote] the circumstances informing trenchant performances need not be visible to the audience. They need only be palpable. The rest is up to us.

Re Doyle-

[Quote] To adapt a great Sondheim lyric: Give us less to see.

[Quote] McNally’s frame is a perfect match for Doyle’s essentialist aesthetic, in which the first question asked seems to be: How little do we need? (Call it his Small Bang Theory.)

[quote]Roundabout's artistic director Todd Haimes said in a statement, "We were surprised and disappointed that Megan Mullally had to withdraw from the production immediately in breach of her contract. With the loss of Megan in a four-person ensemble, work has been delayed after only two weeks of rehearsal. We have wanted Joe Mantello to direct this comedy since he staged a reading for us three years ago. We expect to announce replacement casting shortly."

So, Todd Haimes thinks LIPS TOGETHER, TEETH APART is a "comedy?" He really is a dick, isn't he?

Frank Rich called it "a comedy that hurts."

[quote]Who are the two well-known actors, mentioned in the Comments section of one of the articles above, who banned Mantello from rehearsals?

While I don't doubt that Mantello can be a bitch to work with, I just don't believe that any actors, no matter how famous, would have the power to ban the DIRECTOR from rehearsals for a play. That just doesn't happen.

Is comedy that hurts similar to tragedy that soothes? Inquiring minds want to know.

I guess inquiring minds should ask Frank.

Isn't Mantello the announced director for the Sondheim/Ives Bunuel piece (or fragment)?

Nobody told me that Joe Absolom would be naked in the stage version of Shawshank Redemption.

I demand someone go in there and get some pics!

[quote] We start the play naked with just our belongings to hide our modesty

Is it a group shower scene?

Theatre Gossip #500 comes on Devil's Night ... I love it!

Looks like there hasn't been a rush to get to # 500. Whoever starts it be, without a doubt, be criticized for whatever #500 is.

Until then...

Toujours, Bajour!

New Thread, maybe.

That sucks. Others contenders, please.

Until we meet again...