AHS 11: NYC - Official Viewing Thread

Ryan usually likes to torture Nico, so let’s see if it hold true. I’m sure he has what’s left on the edit room floor for his own at home viewing.

Anyone tuning in?

I never bothered with last year after that god awful summer camp shitfest.

Patti LuPone is a singer in a bath house

Charlie looks tight.

lol at Billie Lourd playing a scientist

Zachary Quinto actually looks quite sexy in this role

Leslie Grossman sort of looks different.

Nico Greetham is listed in this episode, but it's almost over

Why are they renting the store at Bleecker and Christopher St? The hype around the West Village for this tv show is odd. Another could be great-but will probably be boring - Murphy special. At least he is getting paid.

It’s the movie Cruising meets AHS in 1981. I’m hooked like meat.

And the AIDS subplot!!

Every gay on the DL would eat this season up. Gay NYC leather serial killer and another spreading AIDS in 1981

My prediction is Billie's character ends up having a Grethe Rask type death ending.

Was my subplot about ripping up my equity card addressed in this first episode?

This season is really bad even by AHS standards. What the fuck were they thinking letting charlie carver become a writer?!

Just from the title I can tell it would be a shitshow. But I will still watch it

Murphy lifted a bit from The Normal Heart with the subplot of the female doctor tracking the mysterious virus. He probably figures he can get away with it because Larry Kramer is dead. I think there will be a twist in which the doctor infects people through injections. I suspect the lesbians will be her first victims.

Murphy kills Larry Kramer off in this?

so is it just gays getting murdered and/or sick?

Why would the same precinct be covering both the piers and the rambles?

Haven’t the Carver twins been acting since they were like five? Why aren’t they getting any better?

Good question, r21.

Can anyone tell me whether it is worth watching?

I read the recap. It is as if the story is written by a 16 years old who thought gay and virus are edgy, intriguing and daring.

Definitely a shitshow!

So Quinto is Wagstaff, Issac Powell is Mapplethorpe, crazy hair is Klaus Nomi - who else is represented?

Take Cruising,A Normal Heart and equal parts shitshow in a blender and this is what you get. Whoever thinks that Dandra Bernhard is sexy needs to get their head checked. She already had a face for radio but all those facial fillers make her look even more freakish.

The gay cowboy ass showing cowboy beating up suspects for the police.....what brain addled mind thought of that shit?The Masked S & M muscle queen motifs something out of a bad comic!!

This is really horrible. Trivializing the AIDS crisis with this absolute mess. Disgusting of Murphy. This is not even campy. It is so bad it was bad. I'm surprised we didn't see nelly queens being murdered while watching the Wizard of Oz with Dark Side of The Moon playing in the background.

[quote]The gay cowboy ass showing cowboy beating up suspects for the police.....what brain addled mind thought of that shit?

William Friedkin, 43 years ago.

lol Dandruff Bernhard

I mean seriously...

Isn't it about to give Billie Lourd and Leslie Grossman a rest already?

These shows are not written so much as “written.”

I’ll admit I lost interest in AHS several seasons ago. Last night, by chance, I watched the two season premiere episodes on FX. I was instantly sucked in by the whole gay/NYC /1981 backdrop with the heavy-handed nod to the (now legendary) 1980 gay, leather, NYC serial killer movie, Cruising, directed by William Friedkin. I enjoyed both episodes so much I could hardly wait for each commercial break to end! I’ll definitely be watching episode 3 next Wednesday night. I just hope this season maintains the same level of energy and polished horror sleaze as was tantalizingly displayed in the first 2 episodes. I’m hooked! btw… I highly recommend it!,

You guys if you ever liked AHS in the past give AHS NYC a try. It’s actually good again!

Don't get too excited, people. This series always starts out strong then meanders and goes off the rails as soon as you're sucked in. Some may say this season has already done that.

R34 I’ll take it epi per epi. If it goes totally batshit next week, I’ll abandon ship again.

As the king of facetiousness, sometime even I can’t even tell what’s real, or not like R32.

Billie Lourd is so one note ugh.

[quote]Patti LuPone is a singer in a bath house

A Bette who couldn't escape her humble beginnings?

Did Ryan make some Carrie Fisher deathbed promise to always give her daughter work or what?

R39 Bryan Lourd is one of Ryan's agents. I think the influence to give Billie work partly comes from Bryan.

R40

well that makes a lot of sense

Billies dad is gay right?

OP yes. We already have Patti Lupone as a bathhouse chanteuse & references to Eigil Vesti & characterizations of Sam Wagstaff & Mapplethorpe and the whole thing is like an expanded version of Cruisin’. In other words, Ryan Murphy is at the derivative game once again. I’ll watch to see who pops up.

Billie’s Dad blows Ryan so his daughter can get work? Is her father not her own agent, he should be able to get work for her that way, otherwise he’s a bad agent or has a terrible client, and neither of those scenarios are very good.

Oh dear. Patti should never be filmed in profile. And why was she wearing Julie Andrews old headpiece from V:V.

If the ratings tank BLAME THE STRAIGHTS FOR NOT TUNING IN!

What the fuck was that.? Middle America does not want to see queers being murdered by a Leather Queen. Plus there was no tension what so ever or remotely scary. The ratings will be in the toilet. "Dahmer" was light years better.

Those NYC piers looked like they were filmed on Lake Huron.

New record for low viewership. AHS is on its way to be CANCELLED

I think he's tired of the show and he's intentionally trying to tank it. They should've ended on the 9th season aka the 9th layer of hell. He needs to do comedies like Glee again, because I think it works like a palate cleanser for him. Too much dark shit and it's becoming one-note. Also have you guys seen old episodes of Glee? It's batshit insane. Remember when the cheerleader with Down's shoots up the school?

R28 If they are going to do shot by shot scenes from Crusin’, why not include the cops making the two trannies blow them in the patrol car?

[quote] These shows are not written so much as “written.”

What?!

Why is Charlie Carver's face so sweaty in every scene?

EVERYBODY's face is sweaty in EVERY scene. They're doing a very good job of making sure the audience knows it's summer. If only they'd put that much effort into a coherent storyline.

Have they put much effort into the costuming and set design? Like, does it look late 70s/early 80s? Or does it seem very much like modern day actors plunked down in an ersatz 70s/80s?

R54 So far street set design has been plies of garbage all over the street, as if the garbage strikes were continuous. Part of that’s probably to hide more contemporary things, but it doesn’t exactly transport one back in time. They got the Central Park light poles correct, but none of the park looked realistic at all. And as I mentioned above, the piers looked like something on the Great Lakes. Interiors are to large looking, as all NYC interiors on film/TV tend to be, but they didn’t spend to much time or energy creating a sense of period with what’s there, they are very spare. The Mapplethorpe loft is the best thing so far.

[quote]Interiors are to large looking, as all NYC interiors on film/TV tend to be

Interesting you say that, I remember the first time I ever went to NYC thinking: "Oh! It looks just like it does on TV... but everything is MUCH smaller!"

Another thought too - it so far sounds like a real "throw in everything and the kitchen sink" of that period in time... I wonder if Madonna will turn up sometime? As a character, I mean, not the person herself.

Well, she would intersect with Paradise Garage, which would be a great setting to have a murderer stalking someone.

[quote]Have they put much effort into the costuming and set design?

Well, they do have the men in jeans that contour their asses and crotches. Which is a welcome alternative to the current body hiding versions.

That's definitely a bonus!

Hairy bodies?

BorderLine.

[quote]Hairy bodies?

A few.

Fascinating to see her there R61, it's hard to see there what she would eventually become (and as for now.. well, the less said the better!)

[quote]too few to mention.

Bugger. I love the look of men from that time.

Easter eggs.

R51, it means that most of Murphy/Falchuk’s scripts seem like lazy first drafts. (Refer to Pose.) Everything is on the nose. They start out with ambitious ideas but don’t invest in telling them well.

After one episode, however, I was pleasantly surprised. Some lines were cringeworthy but overall pretty good.

Those are Easter eggs?

Dandra.

its ok but the banal script blows my mind. yes very seventys maybe

Not very positive of gay folks,,,,,jus what the trumpers/de santis ers want......

saw the "caged meat" and thought of Mam's mussy....

Russell Tovey isn’t aging well. Billie Lourd is terrible. I guess Sarah Paulson and Lily Rabe were busy.

no shit, ms lourd is pitiful. the whole thing is weird

[quote]Billie Lourd is terrible.

Cut the Billie Lourd shit. She had three lines and was absolutely fine.

Billie got the deer murdered, she’s not a sympathetic character. And those looked like regal royal deer from India or Bhutan, not the scrappy Fire Island deer with mange.

I’m tired of all gay actors in gay roles. It’s going to be the same small set of actors playing those roles every time. I’d like to see other actors, including straight ones, given the chance.

If there isn’t a scene of a drunk and stumbling Marsha P and Sylvia, played by some of our finest transactresses formerly of POSE!, saving some wayward cute twinks from murder by throwing bricks at the killer I’m NOT watching anymore!

I've never thought Tovey was attractive until this. Yes, please.

Tovey has activated his Daddy phase persona.

he need hit da gym

I always confuse Tovey with Brian J. Smith

Is this on Hulu right now?

I would pay good money to watch Tovey and Brian J. fuck unrelentingly.

tovey is a bottom

R83 Even better!

Yes it is r81.

And I am enjoying the fuck out of it.

R76 There was a scene where the editor was selecting a picture for the first page. Lots of posing gays and he hated all of them, but paused on that famous picture of Marsha. “This one makes me smile.” 😂

The script is just bad and beats you over the head with the obvious. The acting is questionable.

R86, that scene and the scene where he was found by the two crossdressers depicted as angels. Give me a break!

They were only depicted as angels in the shots of how he saw them in his imagination.

Why is Matt Damon Jr. playing a fag?

As I mentioned on the other thread, I decided this time rather than just reading a thread and commenting on things I haven’t watched, that I would watch along with everyone here instead. I’m in Australia and am unsure if the release schedule is the same so I won’t read a lot of the responses above yet to avoid potential spoilers, and hope I don’t just repeat what everyone else has said.

Watched the first two episodes (all that is available here so far) and I am really surprised, because… I am enjoying it so far! I don’t have a good history with this show, I have never really liked the tone of it, the way the performances are pitched, the mess of plotting, the over-egging, etc. so I’ve never really bothered before. 1984 is the only series I have completed, and that was just to see it through, it was kinda bad.

But this seemed a lot more toned down, less campy, more serious, and I liked that. I also recently watched [italic]Cruising[/italic], and loved it, so it was fun seeing it referenced here too. I mean, it was more than just a reference, wasn’t it? Huge pieces of these episodes were taken straight from the movie, like the music, or the naked cowboy. I could see that this would irritate others, but I got a kick out of it.

I’m not scared, but there is a kind of successful unsettling feeling, I think because we know something is coming and what that something is. I’ve always found the leather scene to be a bit unsettling too (covered faces particularly). But it’s also surprisingly tame in what it shows. Less really is more, sometimes and this is good in this case. There are quite a few threads and characters and sometimes when Billie Lourd turns up, I literally forget she has been in it, haha. I know people don’t like her much here, and she isn’t the best actress, but I find her likable too, you know? I think she’s probably best when being campy rather than serious however. Zachary Quinto is the one I’m not interested in watching so much. The boy in the cage was fiiiiine, though, hehe.

Needs more Sandra Bernhard and Patti LuPone (wonder if she is just going to sing, or have more to do?). Has Leslie Grossman had work done? What I find interesting are all the references. I am not really knowledgeable about gay history or this period, but have picked out a few references like [italic]Cruising[/italic], Patti LuPone is like a Bette Midler character, Russell Tovey’s boyfriend I wonder if he’s a kind of Larry Kramer type character maybe? Obviously there’s the Haitian Robert Mapplethorpe too. I think Sandra’s character is going to bring up the conspiracy theories about the origin of AIDS (Hep B vaccines, maybe?). I am curious what other references will show up or there is that I don’t know yet?

Also, I [italic]like[/italic] most of these characters, I am willing to go on this ride with them. Previous AHS series have just had people be smarmy and catty and treacherous to my eyes. It’s so nice to have a change. Plus this is a better representation of a variety of gay men than the usual focus on stereotypes, which I’ve seen a lot of lately.

I wish I could go to a bathhouse like that. Don’t think we have anything like that here anymore. This was incidentally set the year of my birth, so much has changed!

I’m going to be even more annoyed now when it goes full Ryan Murphy because I am liking this and looking forward to next week! Enjoyed the soundtrack too.

[quote]There was a scene where the editor was selecting a picture for the first page. Lots of posing gays and he hated all of them, but paused on that famous picture of Marsha. “This one makes me smile.”

Aye, but did you notice it came at the same time one of the lesbians (Sandra B?) looked at it and said: "Not a woman in the bunch" or something (referring to all the photos being of men). I thought that was a subtle dig.

r90 is a perfect example of why the DL needs an edit function.

Of course, only I should be able to do the fucking editing.

Er, R92. This is a discussion board, not Twitter. I for one enjoy reading people's takes on things and I assume others do too.

I would enjoy them more if they were presented in the form of interpretive dance r93.

Ok. I'm down for that, R92/R94, haha.

You know a Ryan Murphy dream ballet is going to go off the rails pretty quickly though, haha. Doing an interpretive dance of any of his series could be quite hilarious!

I only say this because I never met a dream ballet I couldn't sleep through.

Someone told me , that Ryan Murphy was really trying to get the writing better this season. Because that’s what we’ve been all bitching about. We’ll see if that happens. But Billie Lourdes a scientist.? She is a total cunt. The only reason she works is because of Ryan Murphy. She kisses his ass. Rude to the crew. Will not talk to the make up department. They are beneath her.

I couldn't find the IG of pretty bouty boy in cage (Stewart), but the actor's name is Taylor Bloom.

The writing better?! Hahahaha! The writing was campy shit from the get go. This is not the beginning of the end for AHS this is the end..

Billie Lourd? She is terrible. Her mom wasn't Debbie Reynolds but Carrie had some talent. Lourd is an entitled and connected cunt.

The latest season should be called AHS SHT.

Like so many, I had given up completely on this whole series, but this one I'm liking, and I suspect I will keep on liking it. Yeah, being so damn gay is a big part of it, but I also think it's moving along nicely with compelling issues already. But again, I admit, it's in large part because seeing gay New York in the early 80s is a big part of the thrill.

Digging it. Clever move to hide the plot until the premiere. I like that all the actors are gay but nobody felt the need to go on a PR tour announcing how gay it is and that if they don’t support this they’re homophobic or a terrible gay person.

I’m looking at YOU, Billy.

Oh, so this BIllie Lourd is Carrie Fisher's daughter? I didn't realise that.

I know this show will not win any awards, but it has been such a pleasant surprise to have two more somber, serious episodes than the usual mess I find this show to be. It makes me hope this will be a more coherent series. But we shall see. I swear the guy has ADHD.

Yep, R100 gay New York at the turn of the 80s is a big thrill for me too. I don't know WHY I find this period in history so fascinating, but I do. And these are all sorts of gay men rather than the caricatures we often see on television.

It's also not so graphic so far, and I think that is really working for this unsettling undercurrent. Too much in your face gore and stuff just doesn't work for me. The worst bit were the needles in the fingers bit, ech!

Please give Billy a cameo. Bitch has been through so much. Yeah, you can kill him off. Cause honestly, we've all been through so much with him, as well.

So, that was the Robyn Byrd Show on television before the torture scene? I have heard this show mentioned before (by Sandra B, funnily enough) but never knew what it was.

For theposters above discussing Issac Cole Powells father....

This is him

Patti LuPone actually didn't annoy me in this for the first time ever, and I wanted to see more of her.

I loved her too in this r106. Although I do want a completely nonsensical scene where she yells at the audience, such as it is.

Oh please, please, please, R107! 🙏 Love that idea, haha!

R97, are you the poster who worked on the Montana's Midnight Manerobics scene in AHS 1984? It sounds like you have some behind the scenes knowledge. If so, we spoke on the Recommendations for Horror Films from late 70s to early 80s thread awhile back.

R104 I moved to NYC during the summer of 1988 to do my internship and I was absolutely transfixed by The Robin Byrd Show, as we had nothing like it back in Pennsylvania. There were weekend nights I didn’t go out just because I wanted to stay in and watch the show and it was free, cheap entertainment. TRANSFIXED I they’ll you!

From NY, met Sandra Bernhard, Joe Mantello, Denis O'Hare, Charlie Carver, Patti Lupone, and Zachary Quinto and never for a second did I get feeling they shot this in NY.

R110, I'll have to try and find some clips of it on YouTube, with any luck some have been posted. My only knowledge of it is hearing Sandra mention it on the David Letterman show and him saying: "they're [the audience] not going to know what that is".

Sandra has a bit where she talks about Robin Byrd in one of her shows.

Billie Lourd has her mom’s distinct voice but none of her grandmothers charm. Pity.

this, this is the 80s. Can we make a show that is this, ryan? Okay, maybe not. I actually kind of like what you are doing here, but can you work INXS into it?

Hey Kajagoogoo turned up in 1984, while not Michael Hutchence in one of the series? You never know, R115!

The character Madonna is supposed to show up briefly and her name not mentioned.

Interesting, R117!

The choice of not mentioning the name too - kinda makes sense, in 1981 she wasn't really anyone, was she? Just playing in bands and working on getting noticed.

Just watched the first 10 minutes. Terrible so far!

I will let you guys know when I am done!

We're holding our breaths!

I couldn’t make it after 10 minutes. It was boring.

I’m somewhat interested in the story, but yikes, the dialogue is so terribly basic.

I hope we continue to be spared a Tovey/Montello sex scene.

The creepy guy from the Bridget Everett show is perfectly cast as..a creepy guy.

Quinto has no range, just different wigs.

I'm 36 minutes into the first episode and still waiting for it to get good.

And ICP's acting is cringeworthy.

What turned me off is Billie acting. It is not so much as acting as reading the dialog out loud. She has no acting skills and the fact that she became an actor is baffling

Just do a Google search of Billie. Her mother is Carrie Fisher. She is a Nepo baby. That explained her getting role despite a lack of beauty talent and overall anything interesting.

Her father, Brian Lourd, opened many doors for Billie.

I like her.

My boy best watch himself.

I better not see any "tapdancing freak without qualifications" or any other "prancing around" or "singing in the street."

He needs to keep his reputation as "worst gay ever."

Wow, that was Patti Lupone? Seriously thought it was a man in drag, possibly Denis O'Hare.

Have you ever seen them in the same room together?

Patti looks like Vincent Gardenia.

Patti is hideous inside and out.

That photographer was hot asf. Just my type!

Agreed. There was a scene of him photographing (think it was Stool Guy), just in his leather pants, no shirt, chain around his neck, sweating in the hot weather, and I was very attracted to him.

I thought Billie Lourd was fine in previous seasons of AHS, especially the one in which she was an uber mean girl. But playing a doctor? It’s like watching bad porn acting.

R134, yeah she is not convincing at all. I thought she was fine as Montana in the 1984 series where she was very campy and over the top, but here I just don't believe her at all. Thankfully she doesn't seem to be in it THAT much (at the moment at least).

I thought she was awful in 1984. I really didn't mind her before that season.

The big hooded leather dude is unnecessary. We already know the killer and he is creepy asf. So far, I am really enjoying this. Of course, it will go off the rails into the supernatural and aliens I’m sure. Horror needs to be realistic to be effective most of the time.

[quote]I thought she was awful in 1984.

To be fair, that whole season was a campy mess, so maybe I didn't notice her being that awful for that reason, hehe.

[quote]The big hooded leather dude is unnecessary.

I'm curious to see where they go with him, because it's like sometimes people see him, sometimes he seems like he might be about to physically hurt someone, other times he's just there, unseen.

[quote]So far, I am really enjoying this. Of course, it will go off the rails into the supernatural and aliens I’m sure. Horror needs to be realistic to be effective most of the time.

Agree with all of this.

Once again Ryan Murphy completely stole my idea for this season. Last year, I posted in a thread on the movie Cruising that Friedkin and DePalma(Dressed to Kill) must have instinctually known that something bad(AIDS) was right around the corner when they made their films in 1980. Both DTK and Cruising both play as moral fables about promiscuousness that would be punishable by death if people didn't change their ways. That is this season in a nutshell, right down to the characters pointing to Charlie and warning, "Something bad is coming for you!" I wish someone would link to the Cruising thread so I can point out my old post.

Murphy has stolen plot lines and casting choices from me here before.

Note to Ryan: If you like my ideas, then hire me as a creative for your production company and actually pay me for my ideas. You are making millions off my Datalounge posts, while I get paid nothing. Do you think that's fair?

Lol.

[quote]Ryan Murphy completely stole my idea for this season.

And I feel just sick about it.

From one of the extras. Haha, must've been quite a fun experience all up!

Also, those butts were cute. Well done, Mr Hernandez!

Were the straight actors required to put in ear plugs so they couldn’t hear her?

Patti’s scenes would have been more exciting if they had been filmed around the Andrew Lloyd Webber Memorial Pool, they just could have built the bath house set all around it and she could have collected the extra fees like Jennifer Coolidge did when they filmed at her house.

I think the big hooded guy is the personification of AIDS. Those who see him will be infected, those who don't won't.

Good theory, R146. I was wondering something like that myself, but realised I couldn't remember who had seen him and who hadn't. At the moment I can recall that our main cute saw him (in the park), Stool guy saw him, Cage guy saw him, Billie Lourd saw him. On the other hand Zachary Quinto hasn't seen him, but he was visiting Billie Lourd with infections... hrm... I'm confusing myself now, haha.

The doctor saw him and ran. This could be the fear and hesitance many doctors felt in the early days. Of course many swallowed it, but how many said “I can’t do it”? I think she’ll have a scene where she comes face to face with Big Daddy and stares him down, and he won’t touch her. Because obviously 99.9999%-100% of doctors never contracted HIV from a patient. Quinto is ignoring him even though he metaphorically is standing right outside his door.

Ahh, yes, R148! That makes a lot of sense. Great thoughts, I like that very much! It also ties in with Quinto's (Sam's??) attitude when he's talking to Billie Lourd where even though he's picked up a number of sexual infections he's basically saying that he's still not willing to put a hold on his sex life. He may be an example of one of those guys who continued to have sex even after they were diagnosed.

The serial killer is so creepy looking. The poor actor playing him is just hideous.

He is very well cast, I agree, R150! I found it hard to look at him, and I hope some of that is makeup and/or prosthetics, otherwise... poor fella!

[quote] The doctor saw him and ran. This could be the fear and hesitance many doctors felt in the early days. Of course many swallowed it, but how many said “I can’t do it”? I think she’ll have a scene where she comes face to face with Big Daddy and stares him down, and he won’t touch her. Because obviously 99.9999%-100% of doctors never contracted HIV from a patient. Quinto is ignoring him even though he metaphorically is standing right outside his door.

I think Big Daddy is a ghost and he will act as kind of protector for the doctor. Some of the characters will have the ability to see ghosts and I could see the doctor having some backstory about seeing ghosts as a child/throughout her life.

As I mentioned above, I predict the doctor Hannah will have a Grethe Rask type ending. I think Zachary Quinto's character Sam knows that Big Daddy died of the mystery illness and is also infected, but is spreading it around. I could see a scenario where Sam or the psycho guy with glasses tracks one of the AIDS patient's to Hannah's office/workplace and goes nuts and attacks Hannah and the patient. She gets cut or stabbed and the patient gets injured as well. She tries to save the patient and ends up getting infected via blood contact. Knowing how AHS flashes forward in episodes, I could see a flash forward to scenes or episodes in the '90s and Hannah is still alive, but dying of AIDS.

[quote] Is this on Hulu right now?

Yup, episodes get released the next day after FX airings.

[quote]Grethe Rask type death

I hadn't heard of this woman, so have just been reading about her now. She got sick in 1974, so could've been infected as early as the mid-60s (she was working in Zaire so that makes sense as it originated from roughly that area). It's so crazy to think of how the virus was out there for so long, this coming storm that no one knew about. Frightening.

The serial killer is the wonderful Jeff Hiller recently lauded for his work in HBO’s Somebody Somewhere.

R51 I think he means “processed”

R155 He was so great in that. It's hard for me to see him as a killer now.

IF BILLIE L'S DADDY TWERNT AN AGENT, SHE WOULD BE A WAITRESS AT NORMS....

She'd be a whoooore

yea if she had the talent for it.....

According to IMDB, the stool guy will be in the last two episodes of the season.

What kind of inheritance did Billie get from a dead mom and dead grandmother in under a few days? It must have been substantial. She most likely only works because she wants too, and feels no need to stretch as an actress because she doesn’t need to worry about not getting a job. Sometimes being hungry gives you reason to try harder and be better.

I think is just fine. I'll take her over Leslie Grossman any day.

R140 you think Ryan was scrolling datalounge, saw your idea and in one year wrote, cast, filmed, edited and got a new season on air? Bless your heart.

I loved the first two episodes, but I also loved the intro to Red Tide. I’m sure soon we’ll find that Sandra Bernhard is behind killing the evil gays along with closeted Tovey as soon as Kal Penn is found out to be a pig bottom murdered by Patti LuPone in the bath house. They always go off the rails.

That said when I saw the torturer all I thought was him as the sassy gay flight attendant in 30 Rock

R164, I sure do! Ryan writes these storylines in a weekend, especially for AHS. Do you really think that he has the luxury of taking a whole year to come up with next season's plot? He's always producing 3 or 4 shows at once, so he has to bang these puppies out fast.

Big Daddy is not a ghost. The reason Quinto doesnt see him is because hes ignoring him, Hes basically Quintos henchman.

It looks like Ryan is rebooting Scream Queens on Netflix. He should do the same thing with AHS. Imagine how much better AHS would be if they could show more sex and gore.

R165 good theory that Kal Penn will be revealed to be a pig bottom. In leather! I don't think Tovey or Snadra Bernhard are killers though. Can someone please find cage boy's IG (from episode 2)?

This is my first introduction to Tovey and I like his screen presence. Flawless, bland American accent (he's from Essex) but looks older than his 40 years. When I first saw him and Mantello as a couple, I thought it was cute that Murphy has a main storyline for oldergays.

Kal Penn is channeling Paul Sorvino in Cruising.

I think Russel Tovey's character is going or went undercover in the leather bars, that's why the box was hidden.

I really hope they don't go in a government conspiracy direction. The spectre of AIDS and a gay serial killer (who is also being stalked by the killer virus) is scary enough.

R165 look at the profile taylor_bloom_nyc

I can't tell if that's him or not. I can't remember what Stewart looks like and there isn't much of an online presence.

If that is him, he's also a musician.

Week one, it looks like the conspiracy angle is the whole purpose for Sandra Bernhard being there. Of course, by the third week everything will go off the rails and we'll find out she's Ronald Reagan's mistress, Big Daddy's mother, and also a genetically modified mummy brought back to life on Plum Island and given the task of spreading an alien virus she picked up in 2560 BC.

I hope the hidden box is filled with souvenirs from Russell Tovey's victims, because he's boring me as a cop.

Klaus Nomi seems to be WITHOUT a German accent!

Thanks r171 that's cage boy with his lush lips. What a boring IG account, I'd expected more from a pretty face. I expected something gratuitous like Jared Reinfeldt's IG account (who plays dead roommate Sully).

Back on topic: remember that each Wed night, 2 new episodes are released. 10 episodes total. So this full season will come out quick!

R174 it appears he's trying to make his music career happen so we may have to wait a while for the thirst traps.

also Jared's boyfriend is cute.

[quote]I think Russel Tovey's character is going or went undercover in the leather bars, that's why the box was hidden.

You've got me thinking: what if the point of Tovey's character (Patrick?) is as an imagining of what might have been the path for Pacino's character after the end of Cruising. Not that he's meant to BE Pacino's character, but that he might have the same or similar backstory. Cruising was set in 79/80 yes? This is 1981. It could fit. He's left his wife and she's discovered mementos of his time undercover. There was a lot of ambiguity over Pacino's character at the end of Cruising and this could explore some possibilities, maybe?

Did anyone have a sharp enough eye to notice which color bandana was missing from his stash to give us insight into what his sexual predilections might be? I’m hoping orange!

What's orange mean, R178?

Anything goes, baby! ANYTHING GOES, or as I like to think of it, all of the above - NO LIMITS!

I should've known that, R180. I just remembered Peaches mentions it in her song "Hanky Code"!

And PS, I think Cage Boy must've been an orange wearer, he was awfully keen to go fuck around with a random voice over the phone!

I know because of the Duncan Black threeway porn.

If it's ANYTHING goes, I'm a bit scared to click that link, haha!

Two orange hankie bottom boys go home with a S&M top, who rides them hard and puts them away wet and they have the time of their young lives.

Just had a flick through it, R185. Not as extreme as I was expecting. In fact, pretty hot!

To the Americans here - when are the new episodes dropped over there? I think they're Thursday evening here in Australia. Just want to make sure I don't start checking posts here before I see the next two and get spoiled.

[quote]he has to bang these puppies

Pics please.

I have a hard time believing RT is 40. He looks so much older than that.

I suppose that must be right. In 2000 he was in an episode of Poirot as a kid, probably couldn't have been more than 17/18 at the time.

R190

Wow... I've rarely ever seen anyone age so quickly and still be so young.

It's the British Curse.

40 isn't fatal.

[quote] I think the big hooded guy is the personification of AIDS. Those who see him will be infected, those who don't won't.

I think it's the other way round. Quinto will most likely get it by being oblivious to the threat, and the others "see" the threat and escape.

Is Quinto just playing an updated version of his Boys in the Band character, or is pretension Gay his one note gay depiction?

The way Zachary Quinto plays gay men is very homophobic.

R196 Weirdly, I agree completely with this statement, they are more evil than his evilest parts he’s played already.

" They always go off the rails." has been said by so many people in here, including me, if Murphy is reading this, please take note. We love it now but we know it will get ridiculous by episode 4.

It’s weird how The Watcher was like one of the first Ryan Murphy productions in ages that went off the rails in just the right way, he needs to do that more often.

The scene where Zachary Quinto calls the pay phone and the cute guy picks up, I remember reading on DL a few years ago about a similar situation. There was a man (maybe an actor?) who lived across from a bar and if he saw a guy he liked he'd call the payphone outside the bar and invited the guy up. Does anyone remember that? I think I also read it in an article about gay NYC in the 70s but I can't remember the site.

I know someone who answered a pay phone at a rest area and went to the caller's house to have sex. The place was well known as a cruising ground and the guy frequently called to see if he could "order in."

R194, the Klaus Nomi and David Wojnarowicz characters both saw Big Daddy, and they both died of AIDS in real life. Sam Wagstaff did as well.

I realize that doesn’t mean much in a Ryan Murphy show, but since they went to the trouble of making it so obvious who the characters are supposed to be, at minimum, all three should have/get it.

Maybe the difference is that Wagstaff was infected two years ago, and therefore stopped seeing Big Daddy and now assumes he died? Who knows.

Maybe all of them are already dead and in some time loop?

Ignore what I wrote at R202. They didn't see Big Daddy; the cat hissed, but they didn't see him when they turned around. I'm guessing they both already have it.

Thanks for the stories about the payphone above. I kinda like that inclusion even more now. It seemed so improbable, but when things like that actually did happen, like the cowboy in a jockstrap, it's actually a cool little inclusion of what the times were like.

That was Rebecca Dayan in the leather club scene. She played Elsa Peretti in the Halston series.

I’m sorry but this is just dull, dull, dull. It might have a shot at being a more coherent narrative than seasons past, but it’s not even remotely the same show. Where’s the archness? The camp factor? The wild tonal shifts and perverse sense of humor?

This is just beyond drab, and after two episodes shows no signs of a quickening pulse. Zzzzzzzz

[quote]To the Americans here - when are the new episodes dropped over there? I think they're Thursday evening here in Australia. Just want to make sure I don't start checking posts here before I see the next two and get spoiled.

New episodes Wednesday night FX Channel and Hulu Thursday.

Does Ryan Murphy ever get anything right? Sure, he puts in real people, Klaus Nomi, Robert Mapplethorpe, Sam Wagstaff etc, but the backstories are fake. Klaus didn't even have a German accent.

In this series, you see Sam Wagstaff manipulating Robert Mapplethorpe, but that didn’t happen in real life. Robert controlled Sam.

Then, there are the actors usually not resembling the real people, in this series, neither actor resembles Sam Wagstaff and Robert Mapplethorpe. Mapplethorpe looks Hispanic and Zac Quinto looks nothing like Sam Wagstaff.

[quote] Mapplethorpe looks Hispanic

Isaac Cole Powell is half Black, he’s not Hispanic.

[quote]New episodes Wednesday night FX Channel and Hulu Thursday.

Ta, R208!

[quote]it’s not even remotely the same show. Where’s the archness? The camp factor? The wild tonal shifts and perverse sense of humor?

It's funny, but those things you miss are the things that irritated me about this franchise, and I guess is why I'm actually liking this one.

R209 - it's hypocritical of me I know, but what you mention would annoy me other times, but here I'm finding it kind of fun.

Isn't Nico still claimingto be straight? Lmao

I haven't seen one cityscape or vintage panorama shot at all. No Empire State or WTC ('Angels in America' managed a CGI shot)? No sense of place. Did they shoot exteriors in Toronto to save money?

I wonder if that's intentional, R213? The world these characters are living in is the West Village. Although they show Central Park too, which is quite far away isn't it? Maybe we're just in gay spaces? It feels like nearly everyone is gay in the scenes we see - I quite like it actually.

I’m really enjoying this for those reasons as well, r211.

Issac makes my messy wet.

Fingers crossed they keep this realistic because so far this is good.

Isaac is amazing. I'm R133 - everything I said about him there, I repeat again.

I love that one of the many things this show is taking from Cruising is the sweaty, masculine aesthetic. It's so fucking pleasing.

I love AHS even though (or perhaps because) it's messy as fuck. What really annoys me though is it's now shown in the UK via Disney+ and the current season is still yet to start - we used to get it the day after when it was available through Sky. No idea when it's going to be on there either which is annoying - like the Hellraiser 2022 movie which we're still waiting for! Such bullshit.

R217, we have Disney+ here and as you say it doesn't have the latest season on it, nor the previous season. I'm watching it on Binge instead, thanks to a friend.

I don't know why this is, except maybe they have deals with certain streaming services to show it first before putting it on Disney+?

Not sure if it’s all shot in NYC but they have been shooting in the East Village.

R210

he is 1/4 black.

[quote]Isaac Cole Powell is half Black, he’s not Hispanic.

That's not really the point I was trying to make. It doesn't matter if the actor is biracial, Hispanic or whatever, the actor looks NOTHING like Robert Mapplethorpe. Robert was of English, Irish, and German descent and had light eyes

My point was, the two actors portraying them look nothing like these men. The actor portraying Klaus Nomi doesn't look 100% like Klaus, but, at least, the hairstyle was correct. I recognized Klaus immediately. I didn't know Quinto was supposed to be Sam Wagstaff until he was called "Sam", there is no resemblance whatsoever.

Just in case you don't know what Robert and Sam looked like, here's a photo.

It's a television show, R221 .

God it's like watching 'Cruising' fan fiction, which was pretty much fan fiction itself in 1980.

Oh, who cares r221?

Any DL thread about a show produced by Murphy isn't complete without someone whining about inauthenticity. Like they were maliciously duped into watching the show because they were promised a documentary based 100% on facts and authentic representation of historical figures and events. And Murphy has done dozens of shows, and people still whine about the shows taking creative liberty.

Like any viewer who is entertained by the show all of a sudden changes his mind, because someone points out historical inaccuracies.

[quote]It's a television show, [R221] .

Again, you cannot be this dense. There should be some resemblance to the real people. I cannot stand when biographies, whether film or TV shows, use performers who in. no way resemble the real people. Seems these producers and directors make zero attempt to hire actors and actresses who actually resemble the real people they are portraying. For me, this is a major distraction.

You and R274 seem rather dim. Or just very young and dumb.

It seems Ryan Murphy has this core group of actors and actresses he continues to work with and refuses to go outside of his safe space. Not putting down the performers, they are fine, I'm always annoyed when the performers don't resemble the actual people they're portraying.

Meant my last post to be for R222 and R224, it's probably the same person.

*

R225, It's bad enough that so many of these Ryan Murphy series is inaccurate in other areas, such as the RM and SW relationship. Anyone who know about these two men, knows that RM was controlling SW, not the other way around.

In fact, years ago on Ovation or A&E (when it was an actual arts & entertainment network) had a biography about Sam, it was very in-depth. Perhaps Ryan Murphy should have done some deeper research. There's nothing worse than fan fiction about real people.

I'm not a RM fan, I've only watched a handful of Ryan's AHS series.. No one has "duped" me into watching this series. I just thought it was going to be an actual horror take on the 1970s NYC underground gay sex scene. I didn't expect it to be an actual replication of the scene.

Was the club supposed to be the Mineshaft? There were only three women ever allowed into the Mineshaft, porn performer Annie Sprinkle was one of them. I wonder if she'll show up. Artist and BSDM enthusiast Camille O'Grady was the other woman.

Read Jack Fritscher's online book about this scene. It's informative and a great read. He was another former lover of Mapplethorpe. Jack is the founding editor of Drummer.

It's okay R227 . Mistakes are expected when one is in a manic state.

[quote]It's okay [R227] . Mistakes are expected when one is in a manic state.

Manic state? I'm sure not any sort of manic state. I also did not think the two posters were either. They were simply uniformed or don't care about any level of accuracy in TV series or film.

However, you sir, sound like a bloody moronic troll. Get help. You need it.

Trolls are always ruining good DL threads. Trolls are never funny either, just ignorant and annoying. Go away.

r226...are you for real ? 1. it might be based on a real character, BUT ITS NOT A REAL CHARACTER. When Murphy wants a real life character in a story, HE NAMES THEM.

Ahh, so Sam Wagstaff is the guy who was played by John Benjamin Hickey in the Mapplethorpe movie?

RM is taking inspiration and putting it all into his weird creative blender. Nothing about this season is based on any of these people’s real stories, as always he’s tossing together a melange of things and throwing it against the wall and seeing what sticks. Even when he uses real people like Feud and Crime Story, he’s still not necessarily being completely accurate, but tweaking the characters and story to meet his dramatic needs in storytelling. I think it’s best to look at it a bunch of Easter eggs and trying to tease out all the references.

[quote]I think it’s best to look at it a bunch of Easter eggs and trying to tease out all the references.

That's how I'm thinking of (and enjoying) it.

billie lourde is a low point of the show, inherited zero talent from her relatives. hope she is written off asap

WTF happened to sandra bernhard? She looks like shit.

She's 65 R237? And she was never cute, she had a great body and a butter face.

I want Issac so bad. So, so bad.

Sandra and Patti should have switched roles.

Why would you go to a bathhouse and see a woman singing to an audience of 3 people at 1 am? Another question… why would you sing and perform in stage clothes for an audience of 3 at 1 am?

I think Patti would have been fun as the lesbian conspiracy theorist…but Sandra as a singer is painful

r241...because you're a professional and you give your all no matter how small the audience or time of performance. We cant all be Broadway stars at the same time.

Patti’s face, voice, and acting is a horror show.

R241 To dispel whatever image you have of bath house concerts, here’s Bette Midler performing at the Continental Baths. And peak time is going to be after 2 AM when the bars close and everyone floods in. The acoustics must have been so perfect, and the musicians are probably from music clubs and Broadway houses happy to pick up after hour gigs.

[quote] why would you sing and perform in stage clothes for an audience of 3 at 1 am?

Those weren't open mic nights at bathhouses, they were paid gigs. Performers like Midler got paid to show up and sing.

Is this worth watching?

I think so R247, but as has been observed, all the AHS start out good and then go off the rails. I have hope for this one though, there's a lot to work with and its fun spotting the 80s people like Klaus Nomi and possibly Madonna. Give it a try, it's only 2 hours if you watch both.

Madonna will pop up more than once but her name won’t be mentioned. Some of her gay friends will have lines. The one cast was blond.

I’m hooked so far but if any aliens show up I’m finished.

Or vampires

[quote] it might be based on a real character, BUT ITS NOT A REAL CHARACTER. When Murphy wants a real life character in a story, HE NAMES THEM.

Yet, he's using the real names of REAL people. Sam is Sam Wagstaff, Mapplethorpe's lover and a very rich art collector. .

Jeez, some of you are so dense. Step away from the drugs.

Is 1981 too early for Madonna to be hanging around with Keith Haring, Jean-Michel Basquiat, and Maripol? That would be a fun little group for the show to bump into in a club somewhere.

R247, I agree with R248 with pretty much everything they said. At this point, after the first two episodes, I am very keen to get home from work tomorrow night and see what episodes 3 and 4 have in store.

I really like them doing two episodes at once. Getting through the latest Handmaid's Tale one episode at a time is kinda dull, to be honest. Or maybe that's just that I'm kinda over that show now.

[quote]Step away from the drugs.

You first.

When did Madonna dye her hair blond? That might be something to look for. She had dark brown hair for much of her NYC days. That Gilroy Bros’ (her band mates) docudrama on Madonna (where that poor young actress playing her died in real life) showed real photos from that timeframe and she had dark hair until, it appeared, 1982/3.

R253 Like Ryan Murphy would care to be accurate! He’d probably have Madonna married to Sean with her doing the Madame X tour in AHS hanging with Jean-Michael, Andy Warhol, Sandra Bernhardt (doing a double role!), and Princess Di at the down town gay clubs.

Hehehe, R257. That did make me giggle.

If you watch the leather bar scene, you can see Pepper in the background.

[quote]WTF happened to sandra bernhard? She looks like shit.

It's obvious Sandra had some 'work' done and it doesn't look very good, she looks unrecognizable. I recognized her voice before I figured out it was her.

At least you still have your hearing r260...too bad about your eyesight.

I don't think she's unrecognizable, she's not like ridiculous Gwen Stefani. She's as good looking as she ever was, she wasn't known for her looks.

When Bette, or another performer, played at the baths did you have to pay extra?

[quote]I don't think she's unrecognizable, she's not like ridiculous Gwen Stefani. She's as good looking as she ever was, she wasn't known for her looks.

Don't be obstinate, while Sandra was not totally unrecognizable, I had to take another look because her face looked so different. I don't understand when not-so-attractive people get plastic surgery done, then end up looking worse, like Joan Rivers, her plastic surgery was awful. It's amazing that so many wealthy people manage to find the world's worst plastic surgeons.

Besides her nose job, what else has Gwen Stefani done to her face? At least Gwen doesn't have big fake tits, her body still looks fairly normal. What else did she have done? Possibly Botox and fillers. Gwen is in her mid-50s, she looks amazing. Guess she doesn't smoke or do drugs, that helps.

Veering way off-topic, thanks to plastic surgery-obsessed queens.

Back to AHS/NYC!

Big Daddy has been seen by some, but we never see him touch or kill anyone. Zachary's character obviously like nonconsensual SM, so may have killed Big Daddy, who's now a ghost.

But the overlaid mix of metaphor, literal violence and AIDS is another heavy-handed overdone Murphy trait. Ghost "killer" plus real killer plus viral killer.

'Cruising,' 'The Normal Heart,' and 'Friday the 13th' tossed into a blender; fun to hate-watch, though.

I pray it stays on track tonight R265! I think it will for another few weeks, anyhow.

Interesting start to this episode. Lol at Billie's character talking medical misinformation.

There's a St. Christopher's medal in the opening credits. I wonder if it's some reference to Big Daddy guiding people out of dangerous situations. Maybe, he'lll put Billie on his shoulders and carry her away from danger in an episode.

Ugh, Tovey's line about going to leather bars was delivered in a hilarious way.

Is the caged guy one of the former child actors from Freaks & Geeks, John Francis Daley?

Don’t care what y’all think, I’m enjoying this season for the first time in years.

R271. Same. It’s very enjoyable. Please don’t go off the rails.

The guy with glasses probably had a boyfriend in the military who was gay bashed.

R270, if only there were a way to find out the names of actors on TV shows and in films... Hmmm....

The Ditch = (mine) Shaft

Cats = Looming Toxoplasmosis

Brownstone = Townhouse

Ascension = Limelight

Locked bar, arsonist fire = UpStairs Lounge arsonist attack

People seeking out real life counterparts on the Datalounge = boring

Writers and show runners who scrape the barrel of history and culture while completely misrepresenting the dead people whose lives they cannibalized = Ryan Murphy Productions

“Madonna” and friends show up next week I believe. One of two or three brief showings. I believe her friend Martin has a line or two. She will not be up close to the camera so it will be a bit of an Easter egg thing every time.

R277 Townhouse the gay bar? I got thrown out of that in summer 2004 for blowing a Russian guy. We were both 21. It was all old guys. My fag hag cousin entertained them with her beguiling stories while I hooked up with the hot Russian. First time I have ever been kicked out for having sex in a gay establishment. I think because it was all older guys it wasn’t appreciated.

'Dahmer' is better.

Alrighty! I just watched episodes 3 and 4 here (getting to 9pm here in Aus seemed to take ages haha). Initially, I was worried that my waiting for the next episodes for a week would be in vain, and the third episode did start slowly, but about half way through it picked up and I was into it. This episode dropped a couple of hints about characters. Had we seen that Billie Lourd and Charlie Carver already knew each other? I couldn't remember. When he said something about being glad they did what they did, I wasn't feeling too keen on that, but we'll see. On another thread, someone asked why Ryan Murphy hasn't worked with Faye Dunaway yet - notice though that the drag queen at the club was called Dunaway? Hehe.

However episode 4! That was a brilliant one. Really well done - a lot of tension there. I love the idea of using a blackout as a backdrop, I legitimately jumped in places, especially the elevator scene. The claustrophobia of that got to me. It felt the whole time during the episode like something was building. Enjoyed it greatly. Like Morris, want to see more of him.

Also, wanna talk about the sex for a minute. I was wondering if it would get a bit more explicit, as that's kinda what I expect, rightly or wrongly, from one of these shows. I'm not a huge fan of sex just for the sake of it/if it's gratuitous, but this episode pitched it just right, every such scene felt relevant, and I LOVED the sweaty feel of it all. Charlie Carver and Isaac Powell looked so good making out and I'll be honest, I stiffened watching it. And we got to see their bums, which is always a good thing to me, hehe.

It made me feel a bit "I've missed out" again, just because I've never been to an orgy, haha. The park looked fun too, while being terrifying at the same time. I think we as gay men often have this link between arousal and fear, especially when things still had to be hidden away like in this timeframe. That's kinda what's a bit spooky to me about this series: being a male that recognises the force of my own sexuality, remembers the dumb things I've done when horny, and thinking of many escapes I might have had.

Really glad to see Patti LuPone do some more, and I really liked her in this! Love Gino. Sandra Bernhard still has nothing much to do. Billie Lourd still can't act. There are a lot of threads going on, and we are getting close to half way. I wonder if they will pull them all together.

The one character I don't like is Zachary Quinto's Sam. I know we're not meant to like him, but he's more the moustache-twirling villain that I expect from a Murphy production. But it doesn't bother me or anything, I just don't enjoy spending time with him, I'd rather watch Charlie Carver walk around in a sweaty singlet and tight jeans, to be honest.

Russell Tovey looked GOOD in that harness and the sunglasses. A right 70s daddy there, yum! He and Joe Montello are really good in their scenes together. I loved having Leslie Grossman back again too.

So, so far, four episodes in, I'm still really liking this!

r264, she had a facelift right before her first season of The Voice, now she gets a ton of filler, especially in her lips.

I find the virus stuff dreary, why cant murphy hire decent fresh writers ???

Perhaps they all died of a virus r287?

Sandra Bernhard is kinda a sad case of a fuck up.

She showed real promise in the The King of Comedy and was funny on Roseanne…but ever since then she’s barley selling Joe’s pub with self produced CD Roms of her singing off key and tired comedy bits.

What’s worse is she turned down Sex and the City money and awards because she didn’t want to act opposite SJP (by her own admission, and yet they are friends now) but she will act opposite master thespian Billie Lourd.

sandra fuked up....whts her daughter look like? imagine havin ole bernhard 4 mommy.

r285...I immediatley caught that too (that Carver and Lourd knew each other), and I dont recall any scene establishing a connection between them...and I watched them twice. Lupone must really have a sense of humor about herself...auditioning the guy dressed like her singing Anything goes. I still stand by my prediction that somehow Tovey is either the bad guy or tied to him somehow. I still think the tall guy is a red herring. (a killer, yes, but a distraction nonetheless)

Has Gideon Glick ever come off as this masc before in anything he’s done? He was almost unrecognizable. Also, I didn’t realize until I looked it up that the guy he’s with is the Gay guy from the Magicians, again, one of his less swishy than usual performances.

I've been in the apartment used as Sam's apartment. It's on Bethune Street. I've gone to few art gallery opening there.

The woman who owns the apartment rents it out for various TV series, movie sets and art gallery shows. The apartment has three levels and is huge. There's also a large terrace, which is the size of a NYC studio apartment.

The Eddie Murphy/Halle Berry film Boomerang was filmed there, as well as an awful movie with Neve Campbell, the name escapes me. The Robert Downey Jr. film, Two Girls and Guy was also filmed there.

At this point, the apartment is so recognizable, it's becoming a running joke.

“The Name Escapes Me” would be a great title for a book or movie.

[quote]Lupone must really have a sense of humor about herself...auditioning the guy dressed like her singing Anything goes.

Hehe, I agree. I enjoyed that a lot.

The real horror this season is that cats could bring something other than pure joy to people.

Love this season. However, I feel like such a cynic for rolling my eyes at the heavy-handedness and preachy line delivery in the orgy scene in the fourth episode where it's about the gays coming together against a dark threat that is picking them off one by one (a term repeated several times now this season).

[quote]Madonna” and friends show up next week I believe. One of two or three brief showings. I believe her friend Martin has a line or two. She will not be up close to the camera so it will be a bit of an Easter egg thing every time.

Wait, so this is a real thing that is happening? When I brought her up originally it was half joking/half "would be a fun idea". I didn't think it would really be on the cards.

[quote]Love this season. However, I feel like such a cynic for rolling my eyes at the heavy-handedness and preachy line delivery in the orgy scene in the fourth episode where it's about the gays coming together against a dark threat that is picking them off one by one (a term repeated several times now this season).

Also loving this season and also agree with you here. That scene just needed to be written a bit differently/better. The show isn't particularly subtle in other places, but that was a bit of a sledgehammer moment. I have no problems with the intent of it as such, just the way it was carried out, perhaps.

[quote]“The Name Escapes Me” would be a great title for a book or movie.

The Neve Campbell movie was so awful, it was easy to forget. Her character was fucking Uncle Junior in it, the elderly actor Dominic Chianese! The younger guy she was fucking wasn't much better. I remember there was som blackmail involved. It was such a weird horrible film. especially as I don't find NC to be so desirable men are fighting over her, she's so mannish.

There was a masturbation scene with Neve using a shower head, I remembered the large stone walled bathroom from that apartment. The bathroom verified it was the same apartment from the other films and the apartment I had been in.

I basically continued watching the film to see that great apartment. It's very distinctive, with the different levels and huge windows. My dream apartment. The woman who bought it didn't pay much for it either.

Does the killer have some sick, twisted idea that killing off all these gay men will draw attention to the problems the gay community face? I was wondering that during his little speech.

R298 I want to believe you are trolling me, but there are to many specific details for this not to be a real thing.

r296...Speeches like that actually happened because the mass of people were oblivious. Think of it like politics today...no matter what comes out, there are almost half the population that thinks its a hoax, etc...no matter what you say or show them. It was very much like that then as well. If it didnt affect you, it wasnt rel and somebody elses problem.

[quote]I want to believe you are trolling me, but there are to many specific details for this not to be a real thing.

Why would I troll you? I was in the same apartment years ago. The apartment is so big you could ride a bike in it.

A friend knows the woman who owns the place. I attended her art gallery events in the 1990s. I assume she still owns it, she was a young Waspy woman, she was very nice. The apartment is on the very west side of the Village, on Bethune Street.

Merce Cunningham also lived in the building, His actual studio was nearby, in Westbeth, which is artist housing.

The apartment owner told us she always rented out the first two floors and the terrace for films, TV series and art gallery events. Her bedroom was on the top floor, no film crew were allowed up there. I went to her art gallery events. I took photos in the apartment, but I cannot post the pics here because my friends are in the photos. They'd be pissed off to see their pics on DL.

What's the point of lying about such a silly thing. I just became fascinated with that woman's apartment, I've always wanted a loft, but this place is better than a loft, there are three levels. This building started as artists housing. When Richard Gere was married to Cindy Crawford they had an apartment in this same building.

Madonna’s friend Martin was into the leather scene. It makes sense he might be in this briefly so why not have her in the background a few scenes? She’ll have brown hair and the only ones who know who it is will be those who really know that time and know her look at that time without blond hair. A fun Easter egg. I think they there is a line about her ending in, “You wouldn’t believe her name if I told you.”

OH...I get the connection between Lourd and Carver now. I think Lourd...or an unseen partner we havent met...used Carver as a sperm donor. Thats why he asked if she had an ultrasound and felt good about what they did. I had to listen to their conversation again to get it.

Why didnt the killer tape the journalists mouth shut when he put him in a drawer in the morgue ? He said his intent was to kill him.

r291 here. Im rewatching the last 2 episodes and something happened to reenforce my theory that Tovey is the bad guy. Remember the cat guy was covered in fleas...as were all his cats. The journalist was yelling at Tovey about giving him fleas and that Tovey was covered in them...prior to him going to the cat guys apartment when they found his body...which had been there at least a week.

About time Ryan Murphy showed Isaac Powell's lovely cheeks. This season is finally getting interesting, took long enough.

God you queens are transparent. Throw in some boys kissing and bare asses you love it. There is zero tension, no scares and AHS hasn't been good since "Freak Show".

[quote]Why didnt the killer tape the journalists mouth shut when he put him in a drawer in the morgue ? He said his intent was to kill him.

Well then how could our hero miraculously save him? The character is so miserable I was hoping he'd freeze.

I don't know but Tovey is probably working with the killer and that's why he won't kill Mantello.

R307 They show his ass? I’m cumming already.

Tovey, feeling his oats in a leather halter and aviators.

R105 - Woah! I had no idea Isaac was Jessica's (from My Big Fat Fabulous Life) brother.

Billie Lourd looked either pregnant or just dumpy in episode 3. This is the best AHS season since Jessica Lange left. I’m expecting Cheyenne Jackson to pop up at some point.

R312 Cheyenne already did the sleazy gay Village period aesthetic in Hello Again, getting fucked by Tyler Blackburn. The sequence starts about 13:00.

So Patrick was a sadistic? I thought the handkerchief meant he was a masachist.

What does Tovey's character see in Mantello's miserable one? It's always an interesting dynamic.

Been a long time since I saw The Normal Heart, but seems like Mantello is a one-note actor in that too. Albeit a good dramatic one.

The biggest joke in all this is depicting the NY Native as a reputable newspaper with journalistic ethics.

"After its initial and pioneering success in making the gay community aware of the AIDS crisis, the paper later became unpopular for promoting conspiracy theories about AIDS and its causes, including the claim that HIV did not cause AIDS. The gay activist group ACT UP boycotted the publication in the mid 1980s. While there was initially some support for the Native's criticism of the governmental and scientific response to the AIDS epidemic, it eroded as Ortleb and the paper endorsed increasingly unlikely alternatives to HIV as the cause of AIDS. The cultural critic and AIDS activist Douglas Crimp wrote in 1987 that "...rather than performing a political analysis of the ideology of science, Ortleb merely touts the crackpot theory of the week, championing whoever is the latest outcast from the world of academic and government research."

[quote]OH...I get the connection between Lourd and Carver now. I think Lourd...or an unseen partner we havent met...used Carver as a sperm donor. Thats why he asked if she had an ultrasound and felt good about what they did. I had to listen to their conversation again to get it.

Ahh! Ok, that would make sense. I don't know what it is with TV and my hearing, but I frequently miss dialogue. I even had my ears tested not that long ago, and they are perfect, so it must be something to do with our television or something.

R306, great pick up! I was getting a bit confused as so many different characters had different health issues going on, but that makes total sense!

[quote]God you queens are transparent. Throw in some boys kissing and bare asses you love it.

Never underestimate the wonders of a bare male ass! Mmmm.

[quote]This is the best AHS season since Jessica Lange left.

I'm not full across all the seasons, but I have read others say this too. It's definitely a polarising one, but I am certainly enjoying it. And seriously for a moment, the occasional bare ass wouldn't really be enough to make me enjoy something I wasn't.

[quote]OH...I get the connection between Lourd and Carver now. I think Lourd...or an unseen partner we havent met...used Carver as a sperm donor. Thats why he asked if she had an ultrasound and felt good about what they did. I had to listen to their conversation again to get it.

Perhaps listen one more time. Not only is Carver the donor, Lourd is definitely pregnant. Carver begins the scene by telling her that she is glowing.

I’ve had feedback from non gay watchers who say this is the most realistic, and thus, terrifying season yet. They love it.

The slow burn builds up a tension that's quite pleasing to me, and I can imagine would be pleasing to others. There feels like there is this inevitable thing building that is going to happen and that can't be stopped.

I thought there were 10 episodes but looking it up, I think there's only 8, meaning we are halfway through already!

There will be 10 epis.

^Oh, grand. Thanks, R321! I didn't see those final two episodes listed elsewhere. The title of those two makes me feel sad already.

If this season is about gay men, why is the promo artwork two women sharing a Twizzler?

I'm enjoying this season so far, but I agree about Billie Lourd. She is just reading her lines, there's no energy. But she's a nepotism baby, why should she try? I'm sick of these actors, musicians, writers, etc. who only have a career because of who their parents are. Most times they aren't talented and it makes for bad entertainment. There are hundreds if not thousands of actresses who could play Lourd's role and do a better job.

I think Lourd is doing a fine job. She is playing a serious, affectless scientist with limited interpersonal skills and a limited sense of other's boundaries.

[r325] Hi Sandra! Welcome to DL! Some people here think you are a brilliant satirist, others claim you are a supreme Fuck-up!

Choose your own adventure!

I certainly wouldn't choose yours!

[quote]I'm sick of these actors, musicians, writers, etc. who only have a career because of who their parents are.

I watched the new Scream the other night and when it got to the credits it was like: "Oh, look! It's Dennis Quaid's son! Oh, there's Cuba Gooding Jr's son!" etc. It was kinda weird.

That strong trans woman of color was the best actress we’ve seen in a long time. EMMY!

Seriously tho, that scene with Tovey going at it with buff glasses guy was HAWT.

I really like this season. That ending scene on the elevator was tense.

Big Daddy is a harbinger and not real, I'm assuming?

What was up when Big Daddy was chasing Patrick in the park and he shot at him but then he was at there.

Was he hallucinating? I'm still confused about Big Daddy being real or not.

I assumed he wasn't real, and being shot and nothing happening makes me think that is the case, but then the thing with that spiky ball on a chain weapon, or him being able to lock the doors of the club slightly muddy the waters for me.

Interesting that the drag queen in the hospital says that they could see that Big Daddy was coming for everyone "not just the boys".

I thought the shot came from the bubbling detective partner?

R333, I thought that he turned up after Big Daddy disappeared because he heard the shots, and had to be quick to make sure Patrick didn't shoot him too.

Big Daddy better leave my baby brother and his friend alone!

R332 - HIV/disease analogy. This season’s disease won’t just be a “gay disease.”

R326 that at r325 is so not a Sandra sentence.

[quote]That strong trans woman of color was the best actress we’ve seen in a long time. EMMY!

Hee!

[quote]Seriously tho, that scene with Tovey going at it with buff glasses guy was HAWT.

Fuck yes!

[quote]I really like this season. That ending scene on the elevator was tense.

A great cliffhanger to end an episode on. Am once again very much looking forward to next week.

charlie and issac the only hotties......alas....... weary of the virus shit, i mean really, still???

Charlie’s gay voice is annoying. Mantello is recreating his performance from Normal Heart. Tovey is doughy but hot.

Just watch ep 5 preview. Yes, it is heading to a trainwreck.

I had no idea that Joe Mantello was such an accomplished theater director. I can't believe that he directed Wicked!! I'm in shock.

He's also quite wealthy and owns homes in NYC, Palm Springs and the Hamptons. I didn't know that Broadway directors made that kind of money.

From the article:

Coming out to his parents was not as easy. In his first year of college, he had a “tortured” relationship with an older man named Kevin. His parents noticed that he had charged a ton of calls on his home number to one phone number in Greenville, S.C., and they asked him who he was calling.

He said, “It’s my friend Kevin,” and clammed up. “Then we went home and my father went to the store and my mother called me in and she said, ‘I have to ask you something. Are you gay?’ And I said yes. And she said, ‘Please don’t tell your father, he won’t be able to handle it. And don’t tell your brothers.’ And I said, ‘O.K.’ Then my father pulled up into the driveway and she said, ‘Richard, Joe’s gay.’ Well, I kind of lost it. I found it such a betrayal. So we sort of exploded and it got very, very tense and my father was thrust into the role of sort of a mediator in calming us both down. But they ultimately had no issues with it.”

[quote] I had no idea that Joe Mantello was such an accomplished theater director. I can't believe that he directed Wicked!! I'm in shock.

Surely you’re kidding? Mantello is much more widely known for his directing career than he is for his acting career, despite the fact that he actually is a very good actor.

Joe Mantello and Isaac Powell are alumni of the same college program.

If former DL fave Terry Miller (D.Savage's open r/s husband) had a cameo, what would he play?

Who is Mantello's partner? His wikipedia says he lives with someone now. Cut(e) little pocket guy but the face isn't for me. Issac is currently single, as far as the public knows.

[quote]Charlie’s gay voice is annoying.

Strong disagree. I was just thinking the other night how I like that voice coming out of a leading man in a show.

Joe Mantello's mother sounds like a cunt.

Only two nights to go to the next two episodes. Haha, this is so strange to me - I haven't counted down until the next episode of something for so long. Part of that is of course being able to binge most shows, but also it's been ages since I've actually looked forward to something too.

Interview With A Vampire, Chucky, AHS ... Gayest TV horror season ever (honorable mention of the new Hellraiser reboot). What a time to be a gay fag.

^Right? God, when I think back to when I was a teen - not that long ago - and you had to squint at and make believe about characters to get a gay reading, and now this generation have so much at their fingertips. It's great.

Issac can sit on my face all day long. My mouth would live on his cock.

I get that he was betrayed by his mother and his coming out was a fiascos..but how does that excuse being so brutal to Idina Menzel during Wicked?

I wonder if the cop's mystery is a red herring, and it's the journalist who has demons of his own, like PTSD? I mean, it's well established that he served in the military. And maybe that's is why the serial killer really spared him?

Sorry,

And maybe that is why ...

[quote]I get that he was betrayed by his mother and his coming out was a fiascos..but how does that excuse being so brutal to Idina Menzel during Wicked?

Mantello's rocky relationship with Stephen Schwartz is legendary. Schwartz didn't like how Joe directed several scenes and wanted them changed. He gave Mantello an ultimatum that if he didn't make changes then he would walk away from the production and they would never hear from him again. Schwartz ultimately won. Mantello was said to be left in tears on several occasions during talks.

R354, do you know what happened between Mantello and Irina Menzel?

He called her Irina.

mantello plays the same character in ev thing he does..... zzzzzzzz

the show plays up to so many gay sterotypes.. bummer.

[quote]the show plays up to so many gay sterotypes

I'm curious, what things do you mean? I feel the show is taking these different aspects of gay life and playing them pretty seriously.

[quote]mantello plays the same character in ev thing he does....

This is the first thing I've seen him in, so this isn't bothering me so much. His character is one of the ones I am enjoying the most.

Mantello needs to stick to directing. He's not a good actor.

He was awful in The Watcher.

But he did creepily fit that midcentury brush cut guy loook that completely skeeved me out.

So this is why Joe Mantello is so filthy rich. And this article was from 2012, so just imagine how much more additional money he's made off Wicked in the last 10 years. He will also make money from the upcoming Wicked movies. He probably has money than Ryan Murphy:

Authors Maguire, Schwartz and Holzman have earned more than $95 million, while director Joe Mantello's take has exceeded $23 million. Others who have profited include set designer Eugene Lee (more than $6.6 million), choreographer Wayne Cilento (more than $6.3 million) and costume designer Susan Hilferty (more than $2.2 million).

Bloomberg.com obtained its information from papers released by the New York State attorney general's office in June 2010. Because newer figures are not yet available, Bloomberg.com says its story "undoubtedly understates total compensation to date for the producers, investors and creative team behind Wicked." A production spokesperson could not confirm the figures to Playbill.com.

I’ve never seen it, but what choreography could Wicked have that’s worth 6.3 million, it’s not like it’s Anything Goes?

Ugh, this show will be dragged with the baby storyline. She must paid the guy for his sperm.

Ep 5 was a letdown. I hope 6 is better.

Episode 5 started off weird and I'm guessing there will be a supernatural with Patti and Sandra's characters.

Leslie touching her coochie in the shower while Russell shaved at the sink was a nod to Dressed to Kill.

Not ANOTHER supernatural element. JFC.

Does anyone else hate Patrick after episode 6? I hope he and Sam get what's coming to them. But, knowing this show Gino will probably die and Patrick gets off scot free much like Constance did in season 1.

I didn’t know we were going to get some Cher Dark Lady action going on here! (lit the candles one by one (CLAP, CLAP!))

I guess I should have seen it coming, Quinto is now embodying Andrew Crispo, the gallery owner and the infamous leather mask killer scenario.

Updated info on the leather mask killers.

R370 Scot free? Patrick has KS. There was no effective treatment back then. And at this point in the story, no one’s been diagnosed with anything other than low red blood cell count. Most people with opportunistic infections like KS as early as ‘81 died during the decade.

Ok, just watched episodes 5 and 6. Will review again before going back to read your opinions.

Ep 5 felt kinda like a filler episode to me, but I got quite a bit of enjoyment out of it still. There were some amusing scenes with Sandra Bernhard wanting to be a psychic. I really enjoyed episode 4 as I said earlier and it felt like they intentionally held off on following that up until the very end. I would've preferred to keep the energy up from episode 4, but I can also see how that is nigh on impossible in a series. And as I say, I got some enjoyment there. Even Billie Lourd made me smile a couple of times.

I would really have liked to have seen more of the lesbians in the journalism scene though. They fought hard for that in the first episode and it seems to have been dropped. But we'll see. It was cool to see the lesbian with the rash back again too.

They also seem to have dropped Theo's vision-powers thingy which he mentioned in the first episode too. He seems remarkably unconcerned about what's happening, but as a character he should surely be having more disconcerting feelings about what's going on, seeing as he has said he has somewhat of a "second sight".

I did jump when Big Daddy jumped out of the closet, I will admit. Also, there was some great soundtrack in this episode too. I had been watching a bit of Koyaanisqatsi before this episode and was sorta thinking of that in places.

Then episode 6 - this felt to me the most like what I think of as a "typical AHS" episode, in the ways that I don't really like. I think my issue is: I don't like Zachary Quinto's character. So I didn't want him to have a history with Patrick. I thought the whole backstory/flashback was the most AHS thing this season in a way I don't particularly like, however, I don't think it's in a "gone off the rails" way, which REALLY annoys me, but more in a "this isn't the way I was hoping the story would go" type way, if you get me. Which is my issue, not the show's. As we get closer to the end, of course they will start exploring the plotlines in more depth and it can't always be in the way that is pleasing to me. Maybe I'm also secretly pissed off because I would never be invited to a party like that, haha (and I'm not even "fat or femme" as Quinto so charmingly put it. Jeez!)

I did get a good jump when Whiteley turned up to remove the body though. Before they showed him, I was wondering if it was going to be Big Daddy. But that was a good choice.

I'm more interested now to see the Pride parade episode, which I assume is coming up after Whiteley flagged it earlier on in episode 5. That could be a good set piece!

So, I was ok with these episodes, but I think I just loved episode 4 so much, and I'm hoping a future episode next week rises to that tension again.

[quote]Does anyone else hate Patrick after episode 6? I hope he and Sam get what's coming to them.

Yeah, I kinda do hate him too, and also hope they get what's coming to them. I was prepared for Tovey to go dark, but still.

I suppose it's meant to reference how when society doesn't care about you, terrible things can happen within the community?

[quote]I had been watching a bit of Koyaanisqatsi before this episode

Absolutely one of my favorite movies of all time. Re-watched it recently and I think it holds up incredibly well.

Yeah, unfortunately I could only find it in pieces on YouTube, R377. I watched the first two pieces, about 20 minutes in total, but then couldn't find the next part.

R378 It’s on Tubi, along with its sequel, which is a free viewing app, or if you have Hoopla through your public library.

Ta, R379. I have Tubi on my television here, so will go have a look next time I have some free tv-watching time.

I rented it on Amazon. $3.99.

Isaac Powell is so dreamy and Carver's acting isn't as bad as it was the first 5 episodes.

If O'Hare was basically ordered to kill Mantello, why did he go to Fire Island and then to the bar to catch the killer ? At first I thought O'Hare was setting him up to kill him, but its as if they teamed up. Major plot hole.

I thinkMantello’s convincing argument to OHare that they have a gay killing serial killer out there, and Mantello can ID him.

I think O’Hare rethought his position/ orders, and decided to team up with Mantello.

And remember, the mob owns and runs these clubs. So the killer, who has begun to terrorize gay customers and the gay community at large, needs to be taken out.

Is there time left in the series for them to incorporate the Club Kids Murder with Michael Alig into the plot?

[quote]I guess I should have seen it coming, Quinto is now embodying Andrew Crispo, the gallery owner and the infamous leather mask killer scenario.

Here we go with RM's convoluted take on reality. Of course, I realize his series have little to do with actual reality. But anyone who knows a bit about that NYC scene which is depicted in this series can easily see he has thrown real peoples names.

Quinto, who who first appeared in this series appeared to be Robert Mapplethorpe’s lover, the very wealthy Sam Wagstaff, suddenly Sam morphs into the fug leather mask killer's accomplice, Andrew Crispo, owner of a NYC gallery. Crispo looked a bit like Jeremy Sisto. RM doesn't even try to hire performers who resemble the actual people.

If people are looking for historical accuracy in RM shows, they are sure not the place to find much of it.

thrown in real peoples names

So, if Patrick saw Whitely when he arrived at the beach house (he did, I watched again), how did he not recognize him in the hospital ? They also used his name...Mr. Whitely when explaining he was one of the cleaners

^^^also, Im sure he saw the flyer...his partner is the one circulating it.

Madonna showed up. Did you see her? Blink and you missed it.

I bet Jonathan Groff was triggered watching Russell Tovey and Zach Quinto make out during the coke-fueled three way.

The last episode is when I turned to my husband and went “THIS is how this show is.” I was like “how does he know Quinto? Did I miss something???” then BOOM 1979

I love that they bother to call in O’Hare and Whitely to dismember the corpse then… just toss it in some sand. R388 he was high as fuck so Tovey didn’t remember the details.

I also love Patti LuPone owning a psychic shop that Sandra Bernhard is going to work in (nights) but then is inexplicably working during the day. And Billie Lourd is now FULLY pregnant and the dad is… Adam? Uhhhh. Did I miss an entire episode?

Anyway nice to see AHS back in full form to start derailing so hard over two episodes. Still waiting for Patti LuPone to find Kal Penn’s corpse in the bath house but she was secretly in cahoots with abs photographer to kill him.

As predicted in the cards, this is increasingly dreadful and uneven. Where would Whiteley have such a high-ceiling dungeon? It's as big as a soundstage.

Why would Big Daddy even bother with the ex-wife? How do ghosts fuck?

Tarot gone wild! Don't even bother with a traditional 7-card layout. Angel of Death time! Whee!

Fire Island! Drugs and partying will kill you! It's like a Chick Comic.

Our Lady J, the screen "writer" is more of a pastiche-assembler.

[quote]I also love Patti LuPone owning a psychic shop that Sandra Bernhard is going to work in (nights) but then is inexplicably working during the day. And Billie Lourd is now FULLY pregnant and the dad is… Adam? Uhhhh. Did I miss an entire episode?

The pregnancy storyline seemed like it was added in at last minute to accommodate Billie Lourd. I wonder if there cut scenes in previous episodes that showed Lourd's character Hannah asking or making an agreement with Adam for a sperm donation. I get the feeling the writers are setting it up so Hannanh ends up dying and Adam is left to raise the child by himself or with a partner.

[quote] Hannanh ends up dying

How would anyone notice?

R391

didn't even think of that

they've both been inside of miss Jonathan

R391 Hot. He could probably relate to the twink they both used like a rag doll.

[quote]If O'Hare was basically ordered to kill Mantello, why did he go to Fire Island and then to the bar to catch the killer ? At first I thought O'Hare was setting him up to kill him, but its as if they teamed up. Major plot hole.

I was confused by this too, but thinking it over, did the Mob Boss guy tell O'Hare to actually kill Gino or just to make the stories stop? Maybe O'Hare realised if he helped catch the killer/kill the killer then that was another way the killings would stop without him having to assassinate someone he actually liked?

[quote]The last episode is when I turned to my husband and went “THIS is how this show is.”

Hehehe that made me laugh, I agree completely. Which is why I guess I didn't like that episode so much.

I actually felt in some ways like we needed one or two extra episodes to make these revelations more palatable. I've said earlier that up until now I've liked most of these characters, in a "I'd like to spend more time in their lives" way.

I still don't think it's as bad as previous seasons, because they are playing it more straight rather than completely campy. Like, I feel an earlier season would've made the sex scene much more focused on thrusting buttocks and luridness. This episode portrayed it in a way that you could tell was a bad idea from the start. And at least Patrick and Sam seemed to feel a [italic]little[/italic] guilty and sorry for the victim. Not enough, obviously, but I also feel an earlier season would've had those characters be much nastier about it.

The storyline about kinky sex gone bad so we have to hide the body is one I've seen done all over the place and I never like it. It always makes me feel icky, but then again, this [italic]is[/italic] a horror show. The hacking of the body was gorier than I was expecting, considering how the camera moved away from most of the previous gore.

Re: the sex scene though, I couldn't understand what was happening when Sam reached down and asked Patrick if he liked that, or he thought the twink would like that, or something, while Patrick was fucking him. I found it hard to hear.

The twink looked better with the hood over his face.

There can be no doubt now that Ryan stole my idea for this season from my post on Datalounge. Notice how he included the shower scene from Dressed to Kill. In my post, I referenced both Cruising and DTK and how they forebode a pandemic that was just around the corner. He absolutely stole my idea. He's done this before, btw.

Why is he earning millions by stealing my ideas?

[quote]That strong trans woman of color was the best actress we’ve seen in a long time. EMMY!

Oh Honey, if they didn't even nominate Naomi Grossman, who made people cry in something called "American Horror Story, Freak Show" as "Pepper" opposite Jessica Lange, they ain't nominating some day player.

Because he's shallow r400. That's what he is, he's shallow.

I was fucking joking. She was horrid. A newer, trannyer version of the community theater acting stylings of Gabourey Sibide.

Russell Tovey and Joe Mantello could not have less chemistry together. Thank god we’ve been spared a sex scene.

Wait, who was the "trans woman of colour" actress in this? Are you guys talking about Dunaway? I thought that was a drag queen!

[quote]That strong trans woman of color was the best actress we’ve seen in a long time. EMMY!

WTF are you talking about?! I didn't see a Black trans actress in this series. Just that masculine lesbian, the sidekick of Sandra's character.

The black 'actress' was a drag queen.

Agreed, R406. I thought that original poster was just having a joke, but others seem to think it's serious?

Are you talking about real life, or the character? Dunaway is played by the person below.

Has anyone noticed Sandra speaks like Jennifer Coolidge in this show with a weird cadence?

Why would they need to dismember and bury the body? Even if the guy's death was drug-related, it was clearly accidental and not the fault of anyone. They were all consenting adults. The worst that would have happened were their reputations being tarnished. Not a big deal for the art gallery owner, who already had a bad reputation, and the cop could have found another occupation.

Yeah, but it would have made for a shit episode.

I need to go back to see the scene of Patrick going to Sam's house re: the boy in the cage complaining. I can't remember it seeming like Sam and Patrick already knew each other there.

Didnt Quinto threaten him about his "secrets" ?

1. Why didn't they take the body on a boat and dump him in the ocean instead of burying him in a shallow grave on the beach?

2. When they showed Billie Lourd the sketch of the killer, she should have recognized him from the hospital.

I thought that didn’t ring true either with Billie and the sketch. Surely she would have noticed how much he looks like someone she knew.

I think the dismemberment was just tied to it being part of the real life Last Call killer storyline and that part of the discovery of who it was being based on the fact the killer must have had a medical background because of the precision of how the bodies were cut up. So, forcing the story to fit the true history.

If Sam Wagstaff and Robert Mapplethorpe were still alive, and seeing the way they were depicted in this series, I wonder, would they have sued?

Mapplethorpe just would have settled by getting a chance to be fucked by Powell.

Powell? That actor was sure not Mapplethorpe's physical type. You need to read the bios about him.

Well he liked well hung Black men like Powell.

Charlie Carver looks like me...if I were a faggot.

They have completely shrugged off that Powell's character is a photographer in recent episodes. And Quinto is playing just a generic rich guy since episode 4ish. What is Mapplethorpe's type anyway?

God, this season is awful.

Fuck off r423

R424 Hi, Ryan!

The writing is DREADFUL even for a Ryan Murphy production. Nothing is adding up, storylines and characters are being discarded. The protagonists are unappealing and disinteresting.

Dont blame Ryan Murphy because you lack comprehension skills r426

R427 is one of Ryan Murphy's writers -- dull, uninspired and confused.

Go the fuck away R426 aka R428. We’ve had sufficient of your nonsense.

You’re an uppity pompous moron, with challenging comprehension skills. The writing and acting are just fine. This is one of Murphy’s best seasons.

I just watched all six episodes and I like it. This is my favorite season in a while.

One of my only complaints- there’s not enough short shorts, crop tops, and high socks! This takes place in the summer, at one point wasn’t it supposed to be 105 degrees out? And everyone is wearing jeans. Tight jeans, which is nice, but still, where’s the shorts? 1981 was full of these little shorts.

I had to laugh when it said the temperature was going to be 105 and Isaac Powells character is seen immediately after in leather pants and vest with the gold chains. And he didn’t even look sweaty.

Russel Tovey is looking hot in this series. Maybe it’s the mustache and greying hair and shoulder gun harness. Yum.

As is Zachary Quinto. Not a great character, but he looks good.

I find the ending of episode six a bit odd. Gino calling Patrick for backup, that's it? Didn't have much of a punch. Has the show run out of filmed material and wait for new stuff to arrive in the editing room? Some poster mentioned that they are still filming, supposedly.

[quote]Well he liked well hung Black men like Powell.

And you definitely know that Powell is well hung?

Mapplethorpe’s type was dark skinned very well hung large Black men.

The only reason Mapplethorpe was involved with a man like Sam Wagstaff, Sam was very rich and influential. Sam wasn’t exactly well hung. Sam introduced Mapplethorpe into a world he would have never been able to enter. Sam opened many doors for RM. The documentary about their relationship was excellent.

Essentially, they both used each other, but Mapplethorpe had much more to gain by connecting with Sam.

Btw, Patti Smith’s book about her relationship with RM is mostly bullshit.

People can have a type for sex partners and then totally different types for romantic partners, Platonic friends, acquaintances, meal tickets, victims, etc.

[quote] they are still filming, supposedly.

No, Tovey posted a 'wrap' on-set photo on his Insta a week ago.

Powell is hot. IDC how hung he is.

r435, thanks for the clarification.

[quote]People can have a type for sex partners and then totally different types for romantic partners, Platonic friends, acquaintances, meal tickets, victims, etc.

Of course, that's true. I have different friends, I do different things with, both male and female friends. There are certain people I can shop with, go to concerts with etc. My partner, hates to shop, I shop with my BFF and my best male friend, they both work in fashion and enjoy shopping.

According to what I've heard, Robert didn't do 'love'. he was extremely cold and detached. He was all business and all sex.

R433 Have you NOT seen Isaac’s famous nude picture by now, I think my grandmother’s seen it. I think the I.P. appreciation thread here has it.

[quote]One of my only complaints- there’s not enough short shorts, crop tops, and high socks!

I hadn't thought of this, but you are right! And I personally really love that look - damn, they're missing a real opportunity here!

[quote]I thought that didn’t ring true either with Billie and the sketch. Surely she would have noticed how much he looks like someone she knew.

Ok, maybe I'm misremembering here, but I thought she [italic]did[/italic] show signs of recognising the picture, and then after a beat she quickly changed the topic to pointing out Gino's KS and telling him he needed to get it checked out.

^Well, to clarify, I'd prefer a polo t-shirt/tank top rather than crop top, but otherwise...

omg sandra bernhard is so bad at beginning of ep 3 it defys the brain. hee hee and ms lorde omg.

Quinto is good, and the hot pervy photographer, Tovey does nothing for us.

[quote]Powell is hot. IDC how hung he is.

You can find out in this thread.

when one thinks of all the studly hot good actors who could have played Tovey's part........gosh.

Wonder what’s up with tovey’s fat cop partner. After Tovey came out and the other cops were kind of sneering, the fat cop came over and Tovey said something like ‘you want to say something, too?’ And the guy said ‘you don’t know anything’. Think he’s a closet gay? Or a family member is? Something made me think he was going to be okay with it.

[quote] Wonder what’s up with tovey’s fat cop partner.

??? He's fat, so he's invisible to other gays in fiction and in real life.

Tovey has a mighty fine ass and pair of tits.

What did the guy in the leather mask die from, asphyxiation or getting fucked too much?

The writing is bad, it alwys is in these pot boilers. don't see why he doesnt hire some more talented writers.

In which darkened corner is Tharah Paulthon lurking? Did they have a parting of ways?

is the nerdy killer with the glasses supposed to be Dan White??

R450 - “ The writing is bad, it alwys is in these pot boilers. don't see why he doesnt hire some more talented writers.”

So is your spelling and grammar R450. But we still allow you to post your drivel here.

yes polly pukefest, go get ur paintbrush and correct some street graffitti.

I think it's very likely that the show will eventually push a sympathetic angle for Whiteley. They were sort of hinting at it when he was asked to cut the body up and spoke about how he'd only done it previously because those were bad people.

I’m in love with Powell. Holy hell he’s sexy and gorgeous.

I did not enjoy seeing, and now cannot unsee, that awkward mess of a kiss between Tovey and Mantello on the beach loungers at the Pines. In addition to an antagonist love relationship, they have zero sexual chemistry.

I'm surprised they didn't give O'Hare's character a hook prosthetic.

BIG daddy can destroy me

Nooo! They killed off the beautiful Theo! This is why you don't accept shots from your crazy ex-bf.

My predictions for the finale

-We see Patrick dying slowly of AIDS and is visited by Barbara's ghost who knows about his involvement in the twink's death and calls him out over it. He finds a way to make some kind of amends. Gino takes care of him and he later finds out he has AIDS as well.

-Sam gets his comeuppance and is "killed by Big Daddy". I think we will get Big Daddy's backstory.

-Hannah gives birth to her baby. She later dies. Based on the phone call from tonight's episodes, I predict that her mother gets custody of the baby for a bit and Adam somehow finds way to gain custody.

My mind went straight to the photo below when I saw Sam, from behind, from the waist up, in a gray turtleneck. Sure enough, the white shorts appeared in the next shot.

Little things amuse little minds.

Just starting on the new episodes and done episode 7. Normally would review them in twos, but wanted to get my thoughts out on this one before I forgot.

I liked this episode much more than episode 6 last week. I felt this, for the most part, pulled the show back on track (Denis O'Hare cutting his hand off so casually I could've maybe done without). I liked Patrick having his moment back at the police station. The only thing is, even more so it makes episode 6 feel like a real anomaly. So, he's correctly pointing out the police indifference to gay murder, but according to last week, he himself is responsible for the death of a gay man. But if I just sorta pay little attention to that, I really liked what they did in episode 7. It felt quite somber at the end too. I'm not even sure - was Gino suggesting we take to violence? It was interesting anyway.

Heading in to episode 8 now.

Finished episode 8. All up, I am very happy as I feel these two episodes are an improvement on 5 and 6. This one was slower and felt like not much was happening for awhile, but I didn't mind that, especially after the tense nature of episode 7. It was interesting to me to see gay life at Fire Island too, having heard so much about it. Including the Meat Rack. For those of you in the know, how accurate was the portrayal?

Someone mentioned not enough short shorts, etc, but we got plenty of that this time. The only thing that seems anachronistic to me is the body types, which makes sense as we are using actors from the 2020s to play 1980s guys.

Happy to spend some more time with the lesbians again! "Only lesbians and early nights around here!" Hee!

Something very somber about this episode too. Fran reading the cards while Theo sees all the deer men. The sadness of a character like Dennis O'Hare's: them making a clear point about older men's place in the community. I actually really like him as an actor - he can take whatever the script wants him to do and make it seem fun.

The only thing I really didn't like is Zachary Quinto's character, yet again! He's just way too over-the-top villainous to me, which feels out of place in this more stripped down feeling in this season. His storylines are the ones that feel most "typical AHS" to me and I don't like that. However, I feel in an earlier season, the scene with him having tied Theo to the tree would've gone in a nastier direction, I was really glad it didn't.

Only two eps to go!

[quote]If O'Hare was basically ordered to kill Mantello, why did he go to Fire Island and then to the bar to catch the killer ? At first I thought O'Hare was setting him up to kill him, but its as if they teamed up. Major plot hole.

Interesting to revisit this, because now we see that Henry is actually in love with Gino, and has been telling the mafia how important Gino is in order to keep him alive, which would explain a lot.

Episode 8 felt like typical Ryan Murphy going off the rails to me.

Adam goes to pay his & Theo's tab at the bar, then he's suddenly at the beach house with Gino, hours later. So he goes to pay the tab, finds Theo gone and just goes back to the beach house?

Big Daddy gets sliced, stabbed and shot, then gets up walks away to stalk others?

Is he a real person or are they all group hallucinating him?

For the first time this season, I'm not anticipating the next two episodes.

Yeah, it doesn’t make any sense that Adam wasn’t wondering where Theo was or looking for him. I’m still looking forward to the finale though. It looks like Theo will be haunting Sam, and Sam will get what’s coming to him.

I wonder if they will tie this season to previous seasons.

The background looks like a hospital corridor and Theo is wearing what appears to be an isolation gown, so maybe we'll be treated to Quinto's mug in half-assed lipoatrophy makeup.

The people who complained about this season not being scary enough may get their wish after all.

r468....season 10 wasnt tied to any prior seasons. Yes, it had aliens, but it didnt tie into season 2 at all. I wouldnt hold my breath. It seems like that entire premise has been abandoned.

I also noticed a big editing problem. After Patrick quit his job as a cop, he then takes dam to the morgue to see if he can identify any of his friends body parts. Shouldnt that scene have come before he quit ?

^^^Adam^^^

[quote]Episode 8 felt like typical Ryan Murphy going off the rails to me.

While I don't quite agree with you there (apart from the stuff with Quinto, maybe), it was an interesting feeling watching episode 8 because it felt almost like a coda to the show. Like, with the serial killer stuff being wrapped up in episode 7 and Gino's big speech to gay men in the newspaper that felt very "final episode" to me. It took me a moment to get into the stride of episode 8. But I personally didn't mind it.

I did know though, as soon as Adam said he forgot his wallet, that Theo was going to be in trouble somehow, being left somewhere alone with Sam.

Poor Theo, but he probably got the most beautiful death sequence in AHS ever.

I guess seeing Big Daddy now doesn't have to tie in with having the virus either. Henry sees him but it's almost like a warning as Theo has the virus, and he runs away and Big Daddy doesn't follow him. Fran can now see him when he turns up to the house, though she couldn't see him in the park. Probably a sign that everyone is noticing the virus now, less about whether they have it or not.

[quote] Fran can now see him when he turns up to the house, though she couldn't see him in the park.

She recognizes him and freaks out when he's at her side of the house. "Oh Shit! There's the Peeping Tom I told you about!"

Ahh, R475, I forgot - she saw him out her window once, didn't she?

But does this mean that she has the virus too or is just noticing it? I'm starting to think more people are seeing it as a combination of many of them having the virus but also others noticing it taking hold in society.

Could it be as simple as seeing the hooded man = HIV, getting attacked (and murdered) by the hooded man = AIDS? And when you survive the attack, you ... survive-survive as in not dying from it?

I think Sandra is doing a great job. The look on her face as each guy turns over the Death card as, holy shit what is going on but not letting on to upset anyone, was perfect.

Big Daddy is definitely a metaphor for AIDS. I think everyone he's appeared to is infected.

Nobody back then who was infected survived. HIV was a death sentence.

I am enjoying this season, but I think a truly great movie or series could be made about gay men living in NYC in the 80s, and this isn't it.

I, too, was wondering why Adam wasn’t concerned about Theo’s location. At the bar, Theo said he wanted to go home, so Adam went to pay, and then, what, just went home without him? Even if Theo went outside for a quick drink with Sam, I would expect adam to stick around and bring Theo home.

He went home to get his wallet, neither had money.

Dreadfully dragging out the overdone AIDS ominous scenes. O'Hare's beach scene was unintentionally comic.

All three left the magically disappearing corpse? I would have unmasked him first thing, and also ripped off his codpiece, then called neighbor Tom Bianchi to take some artful nudes.

Ep. 8 is just a fever dream of illogic.

Ep. 9 & 10 will be more, no plot except dread dragged out to 1987 with gauzy-lensed flashbacks.

This is basically "The Normal Heart" on a bad acid trip.

[quote]I am enjoying this season, but I think a truly great movie or series could be made about gay men living in NYC in the 80s, and this isn't it.

I am with you I think. I am very much enjoying this, which has been a surprise to me because I never usually like AHS/Murphy productions. But I would love a really excellent series done in this time. Maybe not even going too far into the 80s, more the late 70s up to when HIV/AIDS was first identified.

[quote]I think Sandra is doing a great job. The look on her face as each guy turns over the Death card as, holy shit what is going on but not letting on to upset anyone, was perfect.

I really liked that moment too. It was chilling, sad, and well done.

[quote]Could it be as simple as seeing the hooded man = HIV, getting attacked (and murdered) by the hooded man = AIDS? And when you survive the attack, you ... survive-survive as in not dying from it?

It very well could be. I think I have a tendency to look for a deeper meaning in this show, but it is more surface level obvious, I think. Which is fine, as I say, I'm enjoying it.

GD went off the rails. The best season until now. FUCK

[quote] He went home to get his wallet, neither had money.

Theo pulled out a crumpled dollar note (not clear how much it was) and Adam took it to settle the bar bill, then he was out of the picture for the rest of the stuff unfolding at the bar.

Adam would've not let Theo be dragged away by Sam's friends if he had seen it. No way. Adam showing up in the house, helping Gino to fight off the masked guy, was a surprise twist.

[quote] Big Daddy is definitely a metaphor for AIDS. I think everyone he's appeared to is infected.

[quote] Nobody back then who was infected survived. HIV was a death sentence.

I think Murphy is taking his usual creative liberty and let some characters "escape" the serial killer that is AIDS in true horror movie fashion.

Does this show have a gay storyline?

Late to the party, but jeez, the acting in this is especially bad across the board.

R489 is a bitter unemployed actor, who should’ve ended their post with “Late to the party “. The acting is just fine, dear. Season 11 is one of Murphy’s best seasons. Read the reviews.

R484 What ever happened to the Patti Smith series based on Just Kids, I was excited about seeing artsy Gay punk NYC of the 70s and early 80s on screen.

[quote]Theo pulled out a crumpled dollar note (not clear how much it was) and Adam took it to settle the bar bill, then he was out of the picture for the rest of the stuff unfolding at the bar.

He made a face like it was only a dollar and left to get money.

R488 If you’d read at least three of the 487 posts before yours, you would have an answer. Unless you’re trolling, in which case, bravo.

R493 - 😂

R488 = Doofus

R491, I've never heard of this! That does sound really interesting!

Never has it been more obvious that Murphy creates parts for his friends to give them work. Leslie Grossman's character had no purpose in the story. Worse, they're never going to explain why Patrick keep seeing her.

Gino and Patrick have lesions. It's unlikely they'll survive. I winced a little when Adam said he'd never had an STD. That would make him being infected that much more tragic.

I think Big Daddy is appearing to people that are infected as well as people who arent on denial there's something or someone killing off gay men. Fran and Adam both believe there's something sinister brewing in their community.

They've inserted a couple of lines that are making me think Gino and Adam survive. Gino mentions that Italian men get lesions. That might explain his. Adam or Theo mentioned something about using condoms.

I definitely think Hannah is going to die and Adam is going to end up raising the baby.

A baby names Theo.

Middle name Sullivan after his missing roomie.

Thinking about it, the idea of the Frankenstein's Monster at the end of episode 7 is I guess meant to symbolise how even though we as gay men are all different from each other, that if we band together in the face of adversity we can make a big difference?

AIDS united the Gays for a while to raise awareness and make the mainstream care about us for the first time in history. The Sentinel was supposed to be a force to be reckoned with. Gays no longer be ignored, dismissed, treated like punching bags you could hit (or even kill) without consequences.

[quote]AIDS united the Gays for a while to raise awareness and make the mainstream care about us for the first time in history. The Sentinel was supposed to be a force to be reckoned with. Gays no longer be ignored, dismissed, treated like punching bags you could hit (or even kill) without consequences.

We need to keep this energy up, even today.

Since RM likes to connect the seasons... I bet the baby will be someone in earlier seasons

The only possible tie in would be the Angel of Death at the Tarot Reading Room...but it wasnt played by Frances Conroy, and it wasnt a direct link to season 2 where she appeared first.. Season 10 didnt connect at all. Yes there were aliens, but they didnt tie to season 2 either.

This season is kind of a snoozefest. The serial killer that was killing off the gay me around NYC is a Jeffrey Dahmer clone, right down to the hair and eyeglasses.

I know, creative liberty and all, but the baby will never end up with sperm donor Adam. It was established in the Fire Island episode that Hannah is on good terms with her mom, and no judge would give a gay man a baby over even the most distant relative who wants custody back then or even today (even if the mom, like Hannah, made clear she wants the kid to be raised by the gay guy). And AIDS panic was real. Gays were treated like lepers, even regular hospital and ambulance staff refused to even touch a sick gay person. Giving a gay guy custody of a baby? Unthinkable.

[quote]Never has it been more obvious that Murphy creates parts for his friends to give them work. Leslie Grossman's character had no purpose in the story. Worse, they're never going to explain why Patrick keep seeing her.

Leslie's character is Patrick's ex-wife. Don't you recall the scene where they meet at some cafe, so she could sign the divorce papers? Patrick tells her still stills cares about her, but she must realize and understand he's gay.

He still cares about her.

I wish a copy of this version of the song was available on streaming. I see there is a version on YouTube uploaded by "Jevetta Steele - Topic" which usually seems to mean there IS a streaming version somewhere, but I can't find it. There is a version done with a Christian Falk person who has put some electronic booping and percussion behind it, and honestly that does sound quite good (very late 90s), but I would love to find the original somewhere.

Incidentally, if this song was released in 1987, I can imagine there being a call back to it in the final episodes as from the titles of the episodes, I expect we are jumping around between 1981 and 1987.

Will Soundcloud do?

Cheers, R508!

Stool guy is cute. Glad he got another shirtless scene. And a line.

^Agreed, R510. I also recall that scene early on where he disappears into the bathhouse to be poignant (I think that's when Patti was singing "Calling You").

You rang R511? Oh, why yes, I’d be happy to my dear…

Ahaha, R512! Your post made me laugh out loud.

Hannah’s one-way call to her mom (ep 7?) was laughably stupid.

She tells her mom she thinks she has a disease and, because the actress is unable of pausing to react to what her mom surely responded with, she continues by saying she’s thinking of coming for a visit. As if mom wouldn’t have shrieked, “A disease? OMG! Are you okay?”

There was no sense that she was speaking to anyone. And the director was fine with that?

This season is a mess on every level. Story, direction, acting...all abominable.

The folks praising it in this thread are either trolling or paid shills.

I hope Patti sings a closing number in the finale.

R515

It's gay-gay-gay. That's why. Otherwise, I agree with you.

[quote] I hope Patti sings a closing number in the finale.

She should sing "The Morning After" -- love theme from 'The Poseidon Adventure.'

Have any of you had a tarot card reading? Do you think there's anything to it?

r519....yes, and yes

There's a bunch of C and L list female comedians in Hollywood that are into tarot readings I wonder if Ryan Murphy ripped off ideas from them.

R520, Why do you say that?

R519, I don't think there's anything to it. Not anything specific to the actual tarot deck especially. They started out as playing cards. It's a bit like the ouija board which also started out as a game. People put more into them than they are intended for.

If seeing with cards was possible, I don't think it would be limited to tarot, I think you would be able to do it with a normal deck of playing cards too.

I hope they have Patti sing Every Time We Say Goodbye like Annie did for Red, Hot and Blue.

There is something to Tarot cards, if you let them speak to you. The symbolisms of the individual cards are so broad that a lucky card can mean anything from finding a dime on the street to winning the lottery. And why have you found the nickel in the first place? Because you convinced yourself to pay more attention to your surroundings after the Tarot card reading.

That is all that is behind magic spells, curses, fortune-telling, etc.: You allow yourself to see the available opportunities around you and have the courage to take advantage of them without fully expecting to fail, because a fortune cookie or a fortune teller told you it will be fine. People still underestimate the power of expectation and how it can be manipulated by ourselves and others.

The show did point out that most people just want a bit of entertainment and a hopeful message from their tarot card readings. They don't really want their exact future to be revealed to them (especially when it can be interpreted as bad or difficult).

[quote]Have any of you had a tarot card reading? Do you think there's anything to it?

They can be pretty negative.

Cards are for amateurs.

R528 Know this.

Which character was Nico Greetham this season?

Horrible season. Dumb than usual final episode.

r531, are episode nine (Requiem Part One) and ten (Requiem Part II) already out? Official air date is 16th of this month.

The angel of dust/death as a butch muscle pig man is so tired. good god mr murphy, how could u?????

This is a good article on what the show gets right and wrong about New York in the 80s.

written like a comic book fer gays.......weak.

Christ i had to fast forward thru so much .

I def f forwarded thru billie L"s parts. good lord.

^^^evidently talent is not inherited.

how do it end? i could not finish this mess.

Everybody dies.

GOOD

R534, ooh thanks for sharing. I'll definitely be reading that once the final two episodes air.

536-539, and 541 is a blocked. Hmmmm.

^^^Chickenshit.

r532 Yes, you are right. I thought I was watching the final but no...and...episode 8 was dumber than usual.

yah Patti sings in the epsiode.

Patti makes me physically ill. What a homely woman. She looks like a cunt. Glad I wasn’t of the age where she was a thing.

The antlers on the actors made me giggle.

That was probably the worst finale imo of an AHS season.

This was the worst of the AHS series. It was so full of symbolic imagery that the whole thing felt contrived.

Oh you all loved the show when guys were fucking other guys in the baths but when they died because of it you get all negative? Is that it?

Worst Ryan Murphy series ever. Trivializing gay culture while wallowing in the worst stereotypes. Convoluted, simpleminded, nonsensical. Absolute steaming pile of garbage torture porn.

Six Feet Under did the everybody dies thing so much better. I wonder why Billie wasn’t in the last two episodes.

R551 ignorance is bliss I guess

Episodes 9&10 are painful to watch but this season was good. Some good acting occurred.

Episodes 9 & 10 were truly awful, a tiresome mashup of overwrought morbid leftovers and bluntly inept metaphor.

'Longtime Companion + 'Falconhead' (minus the sex) + a lengthy string of cheesy music video bits.

Linked is an example of what the writers and directors were attempting, which that director and Coil accomplished decades ago, and with brevity:

The finale was fine. Not great, but better than the trainwreck you haters are describing.

Did Hannah have the baby or was she still pregnant when she died? I wasn’t paying that close attention to the timeline

And where the fuck was the baby? Another loose end spiraling the drain like deer ticks.

Who was the blond guy Zachary Quinto’s character kissed when he died? I don’t remember him from the earlier episodes.

Just one of his many tricks/victims.

Episode nine was pretty great, with Quinto's character trapped in the hospital of hell. Episode ten had Patrick as blind and broken man in the hospital. I liked that we got a scene of how Patrick and Gino met and that it was Gino's confidence, hitting on him right at the crime scene, that attracted Patrick.

r557, r558 Hannah was still pregnant

Gino looked like a discount Jeffrey dean morgan in this season. It wasn’t a bad look- I liked the grey hair, beard, and worn jeans. He wasn’t any kind of hot in The Watcher. I can see why Patrick went for him.

Did we see Henry dying? He was obviously dead since he was there for the Sam funeral thing, but I don’t remember him dying.

The ending was so sad to me I actually teared up a bit.

[quote]The finale was fine. Not great, but better than the trainwreck you haters are describing.

I agree.

Ab Fab did it better.

[quote]Gino looked like a discount Jeffrey dean morgan in this season.

He had gone full Michael Stipe by the time he was in the casket.

I'm still trying to decide if the last two episodes were brilliant or another copout on Murphy's part.

The show became a real life horror show in the last two episodes, taking all the supernatural elements out of it and presenting a painful and sobering look at what it was like to be a gay man in the 80s and 90s. Was that Murphy's goal the entire time? To present reality as the greatest horror story?

It was all extremely uncomfortable for me to watch, and I'm still thinking about it, so maybe Murphy was brilliant indeed.

[quote]It was all extremely uncomfortable for me to watch, and I'm still thinking about it, so maybe Murphy was brilliant indeed.

I felt the same way. I just watched and took it all in. Sat in the extreme uncomfortable-ness of those episodes. It's not my generation's story, so I feel it's also not my place to really critique it but instead to view it and try to understand the intention of someone who I assume lived through it (Murphy would be the right age for that, yes?). I do think it's so important we don't forget these stories, the community we lost, or lose the lessons we have learnt from it. Very harsh, sobering lessons about the way society abandoned us, but necessary to remember and honour those who went through it.

I am curious as to what they were trying to get at with the last thing we hear Billie Lourd's character say is that maybe the conspiracy theories were true. Is he really trying to say there's some merit to that?

R567 Ew. I thought the hat was more a nod to Larry Kramer.

R570 I got that same impression. In the final montage at the end, the Gino character became an AIDS activist, much like Kramer.

R569 I'm of the generation that lived through the worst horror of the AIDS epidemic, and I think that's why the final two episodes resonated with me so much. I can't tell you how many friends I saw suffer and die through those awful decades.

I'll never forget being at a friend's house back in 1992. He was having a small gathering of 8 people. One year later, I was the only one from that group still living.

And you're right - this should never be forgotten. I do give credit to Murphy for laying bare the horror of it all.

R572 It was an awful time. Going to sleep at night, wondering if the virus was coursing through your veins. Freaking out if you saw a weird sot on your skin or had a cough or the flu. Going to the free clinic to get tested because you didn't want any record of it on your insurance. Having to wait a week for your results, then being ushered into a room to get the results, screaming inside as the clinic worker looked through their paperwork to find your name and your HIV status.

Looking back, it's hard to believe any of us came out of that dark period without being permanently emotionally scarred. And I was one of the lucky ones who never tested positive.

[quote]it's hard to believe any of us came out of that dark period without being permanently emotionally scarred.

I am not entirely sure that any of us did.

So was the gay baby daddy dead at the end to? Where were all the lesbian friends?

I really loved the epilogue episodes but they were very different than the first 8. I got very emotional during 9 and 10.

I think it's important that Ryan Murphy convey the pain and horror of what living in the gay community must have been like in NYC at that time. Many of us weren't there, or are too young to know.

R575 He was the only survivor at the end. I think Adam was loosely based on Peter Staley.

R575 I think Adam at Gino’s funeral repeated Gino’s position at the podium for Patrick’s funeral. It’s meant to convey the tragic cycle of attending the funeral of a friend and loved one, only to succumb to the same illness yourself. Adam was next and so on, and so on. It harkens to the conveyor belt of bodies falling into the grave, but makes it much more personal, as these are characters we’ve come to know and care about.

R572/R573/R574 - I can't even imagine. If it were me I don't think I'd have come out of it sane. Much love to you all.

[quote]Ew. I thought the hat was more a nod to Larry Kramer.

It was. But by placing Larry Kramer in a music video, I could only see Michael Stipe.

I think people just say this kind of thing now without thinking about it:

[quote]If I had one criticism of AHS: NYC it would be that they make a point to highlight the marginilazation of non-cis males in gay narratives and then proceed to marginalize non-cis males in their narrative.

Or this:

[quote]#AHSNYC lacked feminine energy, but I get it bc it was focused on gay men but they definitely suppressed the women this season

[quote] I think Adam at Gino’s funeral repeated Gino’s position at the podium for Patrick’s funeral. It’s meant to convey the tragic cycle of attending the funeral of a friend and loved one, only to succumb to the same illness yourself. Adam was next and so on, and so on.I think Adam at Gino’s funeral repeated Gino’s position at the podium for Patrick’s funeral. It’s meant to convey the tragic cycle of attending the funeral of a friend and loved one, only to succumb to the same illness yourself. Adam was next and so on, and so on.

Sorry, I posted this in the wrong AHS thread:

Adam is the last one standing. No Big Daddy stalking him in the final scene. In Gino's sequence, Big Daddy was always around waiting and stalking him. Nothing like that with Adam.

I still can't get those images of the filthy hospital wards out of my mind. How can humans do that to other humans?

Gay men were viewed as subhumans and hospital workers probably viewed them as not worthy of dignity.

[quote] ... convey the pain and horror of what living in the gay community must have been like in NYC at that time. Many of us weren't there, or are too young to know.

I nice sentiment; thank you. But as someone who lived through all that (NYC native since the late 1960s), this show's portrayal was an uneven, surreal, odd mishmash of misinformation and shitty lurid 'Mario Bava on poppers' cinema.

Blending (eventual enemies) Charles Ortleb and Larry Kramer is just one of the idiotic fictionalizations. The men grew to despise each other, and Ortleb's insane rants about 'dolphin flu" and pig viruses were what shut the 'NY Native' down, not staff deaths (ridiculously 'metaphorized' as Big Daddy using a machine gun).

Inconclusive, overwrought, bad MTV tricks do not 'convey' what happened. I'm not asking for a documentary, but sheesh. Dozens of AIDS-themed films, series, plays and songs tell the story better than this drab, schizoid, grotesque mess.

Uh, it's an American Horror Story take on the AIDS crisis of the 80. Murphy is taking his usual creative liberty.

And it was a Murphy mess, as usual. The 'villain' or 'monster' get shot, then Big Daddy morphs into a blonde beach dude? After all that inane inconsistent ominous shots?

Stupid.

And, as usual, posters complain about watching a messy show by Murphy. These posters will never learn their lesson, won't they?

Like they think have this great power to convince others to not watch Murphy's shows or like them less, because of some anonymous comments at DL.

Murphy has done some fine work. This was not one of them.

This was fine; especially in comparison to the rest of the AHS series. But shows like Feud or his Andy Warhol documentary were definitely better (not without critique either). I enjoyed watching my two episodes of this every week. Would I have told the story somewhat differently? Absolutely, yes, but I'm also not in a position to write tv shows, haha.

It does have me interested to start delving into more of our literature/film/tv on this topic and era, something I've generally avoided.

R590, complaining about complaining; so meta!

r593, you may call it complaining, I call it point and laughing at your village idiot act.

"OMG, you guys! ANOTHER Murphy show that's a total mess!!"

R594, completely not getting it.

It was Murphy at his laziest. Scattershot 80's references with no depth or authenticity, "Oh look, it's sorta, kinda, Mapplethorpe/Larry Kramer/Klaus Nomi" but without having to stick to pesky facts. A mess.

r595, sure Jan. Let's go with that. Gurl, bye.

I'm realising that this was always going to be a difficult show for us to appraise considering the topic. It's too personal, very serious, we all want to see it portrayed a certain way, probably. It's our holocaust, if you will. Of course people are going to have really serious disagreements about it.

[quote] Looking back, it's hard to believe any of us came out of that dark period without being permanently emotionally scarred. And I was one of the lucky ones who never tested positive.

None of us did. We are all scarred and haunted. Getting HIV in the 80s was catastrophically awful but not getting it and living through that time was a close second.

AHS:NYC was an embarrassment to everyone involved. It trivialized and exploited a human rights abuse and tragedy.

It was soft core torture porn. Oh, and AIDS. But not really. Just a little. But yes. But no. Insufferable.

Congrats, R597; three trite clichés in one reply.