Is The Wiz actually a good show/movie?

I liked it. It was interesting because it was much closer to the original book than the 1939 film. For example, Dorothy’s trip was real, not a dream. And Glinda was the good witch of the South. In the 1939 film, Dorothy’s trip was a dream and the witch of the north and Glinda the Good Witch of the South were combined into one character.

The original broadway version has the soul. It made Stephanie Mills a star

The movie and the horrible live version took most of the soul/gospel flavor out of it.

I love “The Wiz” movie. I loved it as a child and watching it as an adult, I find Diana to be obnoxious.

I guess I don’t know what people wanted or expected and found it too dark and gritty and low budget. But that’s why I find it charming.

I don't either version was as good as the stage show. The film was badly done, with Diana Ross miscast and wildly overacting.

The core of the show for black audiences should be Aunt Em's beautiful song "The Feeling We Once Had," but it was given to all of the family in the movie (and the words were changed for no clear reason) and then in the TV show version the staging of Stephanie Mills as Em was so distracting (they kept her awkwardly sitting down during the song so her extreme shortness was not as apparent).

the original stage show was so powerful, especially with the choreography of the dancer who played the twister, and Mills's great performance as Dorothy, and Andre de Shields singing "Y'all Got It!" with so much insane energy.

Did they ever explain why Dorothy was played by a 35 year old woman?

The Live version even took some of the syncopation out of Ease On Down The Road which gave it the gospel/funky feeling. Idiots.

[quote] Oh I was supposed to know the twin brother was hanging? Silly me!

That was not the twin brother. That was the last nobleman to bend the knee to Ser Otto when he announced Aegon was the new king. he was trying to sneak out of the Red Keep, but they caught him and hanged him.

I love the Wiz be because its childhood nostalgia. The first time I saw it as an adult, I thought Diana is too old in this role and is a creepy cunt. I still love it. It has its magical moments. And the wicked witch of the west is down right brilliant with its subversive commentary on capitalism and cheap labor.

oops, wrong thread--sorry.

I love the Emerald City sequence. It's 70's fashions and attitude, filmed on-site at the World Trade Center, and outstanding musical score and adaptions by Quincy Jones.

Nobody beats THE WIZ nobody beats THE WIZ

My favorite parts of the film are when Dorothy and the others get attacked in the subway station by the trashbins and the pillars and the creepy man with the growing puppets, and the gorgeous staging of "Brand New Day" with the rainbows created by the sprinklers.

My least favorite part is when Diana Ross for no clear reason acts like she's having a complete nervous breakdown after arriving in Munchkinland.

It was awful. At least that's what I thought when I saw it. I haven't revisited it.

OP The Wiz was not a rare black show on Broadway. Do some research

turning Dorothy from a young girl(stage) to an elementary school teacher in Harlem (screen)!!!

I'm not a moron, thank you. You mean to say there was TONS of representation on Broadway back then? Black people were getting all the roles? Come on...

R12 all the stuff you liked scared the heck out of me seeing it as an adult. The subway pillars and creepy dolls included.

There was an ACTOR playing the twister in the original? How did that work?

Andrew De Shields played who? He's cool.

R16 Yes, they were.

As much as I love Diana Ross, she really drags this film down. She looks horrible in this. Terrible fashion, terrible hair, she looks gaunt/old. She is so dreary. Dorothy should be full of life, and Diana plays her as depressed and on the edge.

The rest of the cast is great, though.

R17

Well okay then. If you say so it MUST be true.

Someone so polite would never exaggerate.

The film is terrible, but even though it's terrible I could see how a young, high-energy cast could make the same show great fun, and male the audience forget all its flaws.

And youth and energy are exactly what Diana Ross didn't bring to the film...

R18 Me too. I love Diana too and her daughter but her performance is so bizarre. It's not even campy because it's so unlikeable. She acts like a heroin addict who discovers crack.

I was talking to a coworker about this once. She was saying was a great movie it was. I said it was a horrible movie that had some great songs.

No Bad News is a Gospel number,. How do you get more connected to Black culture than that? It's fun.

Agree with those who say great case except the lead, but that's a big except!

The stage show is a mediocre show that was elevated due to Geoffrey Holder's staging.

R23, Great cast, not case!

One of my fav lyrics as sung by the Wiz character in "Nobody."

"I packed up my clothes and I packed up my power, I'm leaving this place in less than one half an hour! If you look in the sky, you'll know who it is, It's not a bird, it's not a plane, it's just a li'l ole Wiz!

And I'm wizzin!"

R25, be careful the DL grammar sleuths will be out to hang you.

Read and learn, bitch R16

More.....

So when will the new "woke" Broadway be doing an all-Asian version of "The Wiz?"

The failure of this film scared Hollywood off of all black projects until Norman Jewison helmed A SOLDIERS STORY. And IIRC, he volunteered to work for scale because he believed in the movie that much.

Thanks, Diana. No one wanted to make another movie with her ass either.

The film soundtrack is AMAZING. Ignore the movie.

Diana Ross, Michael Jackson, Mabel King, and Lena Horne are great singers in their own right.

Ted Ross was a New York theater legend who had a deep baritone.

Nipsey Russell talk-sings his way through the show.

Richard Pryor has a few spoken lines in the album.

It is a who's who of 1970's African American culture.

Fair enough.

I just don't know what was gained by adapting the Wizard of Oz this way. It's a showpiece for great AA performers, yes, but...other than that? (and if it isn't a good adaptation, then how is it a good showpiece for AA performers?)

Maybe I should be asking in a place with more AA people LOL. We're probably mostly white here...

Certainly one of the five worst movies I've ever sat through.

I'm sure Richard Brody in The New Yorker has unearthed it to prove that it's the greatest musical ever made--just MISUNDERSTOOD.

This topic shows up a few times every year…and I know that I’m an eldergay because I have read the old threads and man…I repeat the same shit in every post…I will just have a seat. But I was furious at Miss Ross for years afterwards. She ruined this film and the director Sidney Lumet made it even worse, if possible.

Yes, the music is Quincy Jones and Luther Vandross in their prime. Excellent. But the ugly makeup and costumes are a distraction. There was an ugliness about the hair,makeup and clothing styles in this era.

I watched Foxy Brown a few nites ago, it's always streaming on Tubi. The beginning of the film features a fashion show of Pam Grier wearing the latest styles of the time. Only a naturally beautiful woman with a killer bod could wear any of those revolting fashions and not be a total dog. The fabrics look flammable, even on the screen. Everything is off. The proportions of the garments, the texture and color of the fabrics. It's very funny. That era was challenging for style.

You mean to say there was TONS of representation on Broadway back then? Black people were getting all the roles? Come on...

I'm not the person you asked, but I can answer for him: the answer is, "not frequently." But there WERE certainly musical shows since "Shuffle Along" and before "The Wiz" that had mostly black casts: "The Chocolate Dandies," "The Hot Mikado," "Cabin in the Sky," "St. Louis Woman," "Carmen Jones," "House of Flowers, "Hallelujah baby," "Purlie," "Raisin"

[quote] There was an ACTOR playing the twister in the original? How did that work?

It was a dancer, who had a long chiffon scarf trailing from her--she danced on stage and twirled the giant scarf around to make the effect of the twister. it was a real coup de theatre.

[quote] Andrew De Shields played who? He's cool

Andre de Shields played the title role. He has an extremely peppy song just before he's about to leave Emerald City in his baloon with dorothy called "Y'All got It!". They got a non-singer (Richard pryor!) to play the role for the movie, and so he did not sing the song in it--which is a shame, because despite the stupid title it's one of the best numbers in the show (and with a fine eprformer like de Shields it can bring down the house).

here's a clip of De Shields performing it in an inexpensive production mounted much, much later in life. He's still got it, though. (The song starts :30 into the clip) His crisp movements are remarkable, and yet he's a zillion years old.

[quote]Yes, the music is Quincy Jones and Luther Vandross in their prime.

Huh? The vast majority of the music was by Charlie Smalls.

Paging Lavarious Slaughter!

[quote] But I was furious at Miss Ross for years afterwards. She ruined this film and the director Sidney Lumet made it even worse, if possible.

Ross and Lumet are probably the most important players in the film (Ross in front of the camera; Lumet behind) but they are also the WORST.

Interestingly, Ross criticized Lumet in her book, Secrets of a Sparrow. She said Lumet directed the film as if it were a play and didn't take advantage of cinematic technology. She does have a point, but she doesn't take any blame for the film's failure because of her much-derided performance.

Diana looked like an old hag in this piece of shit.

[quote] You mean to say there was TONS of representation on Broadway back then? Black people were getting all the roles? Come on...

Ok Jada, now we see your agenda.

Why would they get ALL THE ROLES??? First you say "there was no black representation on bway", then you are shown that actually there were quite a few famous shows in the 60s and 70s on bway, plus musical revues. (there also was a healthy off b'way black theatre scene too....ever hear of the "Mama I wnt to Sing" trilogy in the 80s?)

And now it's "They didn't get ALL the roles?" TONS of representation???

I know you an't tell by today's casting in commercials, TV and movies, but African Americans are 13% of the population.

Sidney Lumet director of 12 Angry Men, Dog Day Afternoon, The Pawnbroker, Fail Safe, Serpico, Network, Murder on the Orient Express . . . is not the man to direct a film musical. And changing Dorothy from a young girl to an elementary school teacher in the person of a washed-out looking Diana Ross doesn't work at all. The musical numbers are not well staged choreographed or directed

Well said. But like previously posted, Diana looked like an old hag.

[quote] "Sidney Lumet director of 12 Angry Men, Dog Day Afternoon, The Pawnbroker, Fail Safe, Serpico, Network, Murder on the Orient Express . . . is not the man to direct a film musical."

Stanley Donen or even Vincente Minnelli (if he was well enough at the time) would've done it pretty well, R44. I'm not sure if there were well-known Black directors that would've been considered at the time.

the man for the job would have been Herbert Ross who was busy in the 70s. He directed Goodbye Mr. Chips, The Goodbye Girl, The Turning Point, Footloose, Funny Lady, California Sweet, The Owl and the Pussycat, The Last of Shelia and was the choreographer for Funny Girl 1968. His film Pennies from Heaven has some sensational musical numbers. ⬇️⬇️⬇️

(^.^) California Suite

Vincente Minnelli was completely senile by the time they filmed "The Wiz," r46.

Pennies from Heaven is such a downer. I can't watch it again.

When I saw Vincent’s last film, A MATTER OF TIME, starring Liza Minnelli and Ingrid Bergman, I was appalled by how bad it was. (Spoilers ahead).

Men telling Liza’s character that she was beautiful, the hammy acting…by the time Ingrid was dispatched by that taxicab, I breathed a sigh of relief…

[quote] "Ease On Down the Road" and "Home" seem to be the only two fondly remembered tunes.

Speak for yourself. "Everybody Rejoice/ A Brand New Day," "I'm a Mean ol' Lion," and "Believe in Yourself" are all fondly remembered, as is (no matter what you claim) "No Bad News."

“Brand New Day” makes me want to leap around the office!