Ugly Americans are real...

Yet another reason not to join a cruise: it'll be full of your countrymen, who tend to be jerks.

And you just suffered in silence, OP? Did you say anything to these people? They sound horrible.

I had to stop reading at the running laps around the church. I'm so sorry you had to deal with that.

I read the Positano part by accident. Fucking burn them alive.

I love love love hearing stories about those kinds of Americans!

Don't you live in Germany, Kaspar Hauser? And you are married to an American? Why don't you get a divorce and marry a nice, unassuming German boy like me with a fresh and unperturbed hole?

These Americans sound like they don't exist in real life. They sound so, so stupid!

But still, I want to hear more stories about such Americans. Have they ever visited you in Germany? What did they say about Krautlandia?

Im sorry, OP. Traveling with negative nancies or those who seem live only to spread their misery is the worst. I hope that you can go back to that beautiful place one day, without them.

My favorite "ugly American" anecdote is from Frances Mayes "Under the Tuscan Sun". Americans sitting near her at a restaurant somewhere in italy ordered "Pasta Verde" and then complained to the waiter that the pasta was green.

More stories OP! These are hilarious and terrible!!

Yet you went with them. Re: In-Laws- how didn’t you know this? Why didn’t you speak up - it was your vacation too. Are you always passive? Are you one of those people that is always mad at everyone - even strangers ? I don’t understand your post. Or I don’t believe it.

For the last five years I insist on traveling alone. Never regretted it.

In laws are generally despised

Ouch. Unlucky you, OP. But a cruise ship? That was very brave indeed, but now you know.

Choosing travel companions is a delicate matter. Even people we think we know very well can reveal a side of themselves in travel about which you were quite unaware. There are the cheapskates who will go to any lengths to save 50 cents; the organizers who conduct travel like a military campaign with giant maps and color codes of planned offensive manoeuvres; the ones who have a hundred ideas but insist they just want to follow you, second-guessing you at every step; the gift shop league, forever hunting for some little souvenirs to take back to whothefuckever; the comparative Americans (some of whom OP knows as his family) whose idea of travel is a dick measuring contest in which the USA is always #1; the loud talkers who won't shut up about how weird everything is and who are completely undone by any change of scenery that lies outside their strip mall world...

Americans just won't shut the fuck up for a moment when traveling. Their eyes are shit and their mouths open:

Why are the cars the small?

Why are the churches so big? Why are the ceilings so high? (Correct answer: Because people were smaller back then.)

Why is everyone all dressed up? Is there a wedding or something?

Why can't I find a goddamned Reese's Cup anywhere? Or a wash cloth?

I don't think people are as friendly here and I end up having to do all the talking for them!

I tell everyone we're Americans and they don't even act impressed! You'd think they would be happy to meet some Americans and want to ask us questions.

So you only went to tourist traps and eminent sites full of such people?

And what about the spouse, OP?

It sounds like the issue starts with something other than provincial vulgarians that you already knew to be uncivilized and unreachable.

In other words, your native streets are too narrow for your personal blind spots, girl. And you type like a woman. Are you vaginaed?

R7 That’s a good story. Mayes is one of the top cunts of the western world. My friend was in one of her graduate writing classes and then—unrelated—I became acquaintances with her ex-husband and his wife—the woman he left Mayes for. Typical troubled relationship with her daughter. Similar stories to Martha Stewart and Alexis Stewart. Mayes always reminded me of a scaled down, more refined version of Martha.

EST!

I would have been such a catch -- parent-free by 31.

GGG's post at R5 yet more proof that GGG is not German.

I was about 12, when I realized that traveling with family was the worst possible way to travel, a guarantee of frayed nerves, the crushing of unrealistic expectations, palls cast over amazing places, and vicious fights.

But because I was 12, it was YEARS before I could get out of it!

Mega cruise ships are a blight. They have ruined 21st century travel experience. I say that as someone who worked for a cruise line for 35 years.

The worst tourists I've ever experienced was English people. I was living in London and my father wanted to travel through France, so we headed down, intending to follow our impulses and end up in Nice eventually.

The English tourists in Boulogne on the first day that he decided he had enough and wanted to go back to England. Rude, ridiculed the French for speaking French, stealing flatware and salt shakers from cafe tables, being drunk, making sexist remarks to women, generally acting like ignorant, hateful dayt=ripper shits just wanting loaves of bread to take back. He said that he could stand them in their native habitat but he couldn't take tourists if this is how they were. I assured him that this was a coastal thing but he said, "What if the Chinese in Paris are even worse?"

So I took him to Brighton. For some reason the English were tolerable to him there.

OP, you married into this family. Didn't you already know that they were trashy?

Is this an EST?

One of the worst times in my life, was when I made the mistake of traveling with my in-laws and their little dog "Princess". Before we even left they took us around to meet their friends and extended family. I never made the mistake of traveling with other people again. It was a mess.

Is GGG still hanging around? I blocked it ages ago but I thought it would have gotten bored of pretending to be a gay German by now.

OP's in-laws sound like standard crotchety old people.

Well, even American people recognize that their fellow countrymen (and themselves) are scandalously stupid, hopelessly ignorant and pathetically self-delusional when it comes to assessing their own importance.

I don't care how much I loved my partner, nothing could get me to do an international trip with his family if that is what they were like. I'd judge him for suggesting such a thing.

What does it say about your partner that he made you deal with this...

It's easier to find a spouse then a good travel partner.

To all those wondering why OP didn’t know how trashy/annoying/etc. his in-laws were before taking the trip:

Travel brings out the worst in insecure people.

[quote]When it is pointed out that there are historic buildings on either side, the response was that the entire town should be demolished and rebuilt. One person added "like Dubai".

Uh huh.

Great EST, OP.

Or perhaps it’s a real story.

Either way, this is pretty customary for American boomers.

R31 This OP is a stridently Anti-American and lives in a fantasy world of constant European vs. American identity crisis. I think they're too ignorant about the U.S. to actually be American, but they've at least been here before. I just shrug and move on.

You almost had me until this line:

[Quote] Every meal in Italy was compared unfavorably to the Olive Garden.

You overplayed your hand with that. Otherwise, not bad! A solid 7/10.

OP is Euro-Trash.

I'm in the "this never happened" camp. Too many anecdotes that are a bit on the nose, with some not even making sense. For example, they were concerned about not getting enough steps in, so they get back on the bus instead of walking around the Acropolis. Yet when they were at St Paul's, they were concerned about getting steps in so they power walked around the church. Why would you spend hours looking for Diet Coke when it takes only a few seconds to say "In some countries, Diet Coke is labeled as Coca-Cola Light because Europeans don't use "diet" in marketing. But it's basically the same thing. So if you want Diet Coke, ask for Coca-Cola Light." And like R33 said, you overplayed your hand with Olive Garden.

I have no doubt that sometimes Americans can be clueless when traveling internationally. But this story is likely made up, or these were people that were being forced into taking a trip they didn't want to take. Most people who take the time and expense to travel internationally do so because they want to experience something different, not because they want the experience to be the same as it is in Fresno.

Lying shit stirring, probably British.

I lucked out with my in-laws, though they are European and I'm the American. They are unquestionably much nicer than my own family and easy to be with them. Even so, I wouldn't take a long, complicated, cruise that threw me together with the whole lot of them. My mother-in-law, though, is fearless and will do or try anything, loves new situations, rises to any occasion, is good company and very low-maintenance. When she does suggest something, it's always a good idea.

R33, odd that you would have chosen that sentence. It is absolutely true, though.

R30, The Dubai comment was jarring to me as well. My thought was,"Do you even know what Dubai is?"

For those who asked, I could see my in-laws behavior objectively. My partner took it very personally because they are his family. I expect the emotional fallout to last several weeks.

R35, you are expecting logic. I was very aware of the old saying, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results." Attempting to US dollars when clearly they are not accepted, looking for Diet Coke when it has been explained why Diet Coke is not available in Europe, looking for the perfect refrigerator magnets when clearly every tourist shop has the same merchandise, is not logical behavior. Yet, it was their behavior over and over.

As an FYI, The ages of the group ranged from mid-30s to mid-60s.

Bravo, R15. The rest of you rubes just fell off a turnip truck.

OP, you had me until this:

[quote]Every meal in Italy was compared unfavorably to the Olive Garden.

No one, even the ugliest American, would ever do this. OP Hon, sometimes less is more.

Even if GGG isn’t really German I appreciate him for his enthusiasm and dedication to the ruse.

Dear Penthouse Forum, I can't believe this finally happened to me!

OP/R38, you're German, right? You should have known what Coca-Cola Light is. Why didn't you explain that to your in-law? Instead, you "spent hours" on a knowingly futile effort to find it?

Now that your EST has been called out, you decide to double-down in an effort to convince us that it's all true.

[quote]"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results."

Indeed.

What can I say.. your dollars are welcome. But only your dollars.

R42, I am an American who has lived part of the year in Germany since the early 1990s. I have a vague notion what Coca-Cola light is, but only vague as I don't drink soda. I *do* know why there is no *Diet* Coke in Europe.

I participated on the first of the daily hunts for Diet Coke because, quite frankly, I did not have the balls yet to say, "Do what you want. I am seeing the history." Yes, one does participate in futile efforts for the sake of family and to support one's husband.

These seem to be by British tourists:

Here are some of the most ridiculous (genuine) complaints made by holidaymakers to their travel agent, courtesy of research by a flight booking website

"We could not enjoy the tour as our guide was too ugly. You can't be expected to admire a beautiful view when you're staring at a face like his."

‘The Grand Canyon? It's nothing special’

"The beach had too many fat people. It was gross."

A man claimed that he was no longer able to perform sexually after a chambermaid walked in on his love making and "giggled at his size" before leaving the room.

"The animals at the zoo looked very sad and it made our children cry. Can't they train them to smile?"

"The street signs weren't in English. I don't understand how anyone can get around."

"There was no sign telling you that you shouldn't get on the hot air balloon ride if you're afraid of heights."

"The local women were too beautiful; it made me feel bad about myself."

A man sent a complaint to Disneyworld claiming that it was "too touristy".

"I spent a whole week on safari, and didn't see any good animals. There was only a load of antelopes."

"You said the town was next to a volcano, but we went and there was no lava. I'm pretty sure it was just a mountain."

A man who took a summer cruise around Alaska complained about the weather not being as warm as he expected.

A woman on a Celebrity Cruises ship asked for a full refund because she didn't see any celebrities on board and said the company was guilty of "false advertising" due to the lack of stars.

A lady on a Mediterranean cruise said the sea was too loud and suggested the cabins be "better sound-proofed against the sounds of the sea."

A tourist at a top African game lodge overlooking a waterhole, who spotted a visibly aroused elephant, complained that the sight of this rampant beast ruined his honeymoon by making him feel "inadequate".

A woman threatened to call police after claiming that she'd been locked in by staff. In fact, she had interpreted the "do not disturb" sign on the back of the door as a warning to remain in the room.

"My fiancé and I booked a twin-bedded room but we were placed in a double-bedded room. We now hold you responsible for the fact that I find myself pregnant. This would not have happened if you had put us in the room that we booked."

A guest at a Novotel in Australia complained that his soup was too thick and strong. He was inadvertently slurping the gravy at the time.

"Topless sunbathing on the beach should be banned. The holiday was ruined as my husband spent all day looking at other women."

"No one told us there would be fish in the sea. The children were startled."

"The beach was too sandy."

"We found the sand was not like the sand in the brochure. Your brochure shows the sand as yellow but it was white."

"The brochure stated: 'No hairdressers at the accommodation'. We're trainee hairdressers - will we be OK staying here?"

"There are too many Spanish people. The receptionist speaks Spanish. The food is Spanish. Too many foreigners."

"I compared the size of our one-bedroom apartment to our friends' three-bedroom apartment and ours was significantly smaller."

"I think it should be explained in the brochure that the local store does not sell proper biscuits like custard creams or ginger nuts."

"On my holiday to Goa in India, I was disgusted to find that almost every restaurant served curry. I don't like spicy food at all."

"We booked an excursion to a water park but no one told us we had to bring our swimming costumes and towels."

"It's lazy of the local shopkeepers to close in the afternoons. I often needed to buy things during 'siesta' time - this should be banned."

"We bought 'Ray-Ban' sunglasses for five euros from a street trader, only to find out they were fake."

^ This, it's not just Americans some people are just chronic complainers. Judging by the Brits that hang out on DL they taught Americans everything they know about complaining. Even when there's nothing to complain about Brits will make shit up to complain about

I'm sure it's some kind of defense mechanism about being around things that are unfamiliar. If you reduce everything around you down to your level nothing is overwhelming or scary

I went on a CRUISE and was shocked, I tell you, shocked that the people who went on the cruise with me were provincial and were not well-traveled.

In other news, I went into a maternity ward in a hospital and was shocked, I tell you, shocked at the number of women who just had a baby. The place was filled with them.

I kind of wish that things like R26 (the video) would be taught to ALL Americans, expose ALL Americans to it in schools and again as a requirement before traveling abroad.

I do have a little issue with the last thing... the reason most people, when asked "where are you from" answer with their state, is because we are the United States... technically one country, but individuals identify STRONGLY with their state. Few other countries are really organized the way the U.S. is in this way. It makes sense that Americans would say "I'm from Indiana" instead of "I'm from the United States". And a similar thing with "American"... yes, technically everyone from Canada down to Chili is "American", but this country doesn't have a single word like "Mexican" or "Canadian"... there is no "United Statesian". So we use "American" for that. Even people from other countries (as shown in the very next video after that was discussed!) call people from The United States "Americans".

Still, though, I think we do a HORRIBLE job of educating our citizens about the people of the world, and to have perspectives that can shift to other people and countries and cultures so that we're not so stubbornly self-absorbed and self-centered. Again, it's understandable to a degree, because we ARE such a huge country, and we're fairly isolated from the rest of the world by two huge oceans... the most exotic most people get is going to Canada (where they're mostly like us), or maybe going on a Caribbean cruise (where they're with people mostly like us and stick to tourist traps tailored to people like us).

I wish there were broad motivation to fix this problem in our education and entertainment systems to inform U.S. Citizens about the larger world, and their place in it. But I imagine there is a lot of push back against such things.

R34, I haven’t heard the term Euro-Trash in ages.

It was used casually in Manhattan all throughout the 80s and 90s.

I loved partying with Euro-Trash, back in the day. They can drink an entire bar and still walk in a straight line at 6:00 am.!

Sure, they also snorted those straight lines all night, but they were fun AF.

Same goes for Argentinians. Just trashy AF but the funnest people around back in the day.

Yeah. I miss the 80s and 90s.

[quote]No one, even the ugliest American, would ever do this.

R39, you have no idea what you're talking about. You've clearly never met anyone who lives in flyover country. People say/do shit like this all the time. The only Italian they've ever had is either Chef Boy Are Dee from a can, or Olive Garden. Seriously. Maybe they get pizza from Dominos. They LOVE Olive Garden. It's their "special night out for dinner" place. And so they compare everything to that, and because it's "different", it's "wrong"... not as good.

I have some real hick relatives that live in small towns in southern Missouri, and let me assure you, they LOVE Olive Garden, and they would NOT enjoy a meal at a fine real Italian restaurant... it would seem all "foreign" to their palettes and sensibilities. They are the same people that like their meat WELL DONE. And hate ALL "sea food". Unless maybe it's fish sticks or frozen breaded fried shrimp. MAYBE.

If you deny these people exist, you're almost as bad as the people OP is talking about... just in reverse.

[quote]I *do* know why there is no *Diet* Coke in Europe.

So why is there no "Diet" Coke in Europe?

Americans are in the top five, I would add the British, the Chinese, the German and the Russians....the British because they complain about everything and the Germans/Russians because when they get drunk they are crazy people...Americans are a mix of both.

Best have to be Canadians

[quote]"The animals at the zoo looked very sad and it made our children cry. Can't they train them to smile?"

This never was said, and this never happened.

Trolls always overplay their hand.

If OP is telling the truth he also has to realize that this isn't an 'american" thing as every country can boast appalling tourists.

r50, is a pompous ass who shares his world view from the comfort of his doublewide

How dare you write off 75% of this country because you need to look down your crooked nose at somebody

Hardly, r31. Do you know any of my generation? Like "The Greatest," we became world-wise from war and racism.

But we also met foreign exchange students as we became same; we joined the Peace Corps; we spent college semesters abroad---experiences unavailable to our parents.

We heralded the British Invasion.

So no, we Boomers are not "customary" "Ugly Americans." Not we Liberals, anyway.

r49

[quote] I haven’t heard the term Euro-Trash in ages.

These days, I mainly hear it flung at weird "high-concept" productions of traditional operas or ballets.

The product Diet Coke is available throughout Europe. The brand name in most of Europe is Coca-Cola light. (Sometimes 'light taste' where legally required.) Same packaging, color scheme, logo. It's like Best Foods and Hellman's Mayonnaise in the West/East parts of the US.

Cruise and in-laws? That's Middle America for you. C'mon you had to have known this was coming...

They're almost as bad as friends, who when I say "we're going to..." say something stupid like "I went there in high school" or "I have no desire to go there."

Since 40, I either travel solo, with my partner (who is a good world traveler), or acquaintances who are good world travelers (some of whom are horrible human beings, but at least not ugly Americans abroad). I also judge potential travel mates by their social media inclinations. Anyone who posts ad nauseum about a weekend trip to Las Vegas is autoblock.

R52 the best travelers are European solo travelers or families.

They know how to get in, get out, enjoy what's there for the sake of its being there vs. comparing shit to home, most speak decent English (so you can ask them for insight).

Euros on "friends" trips exist only to get smashed. It's why Prague has signs all over the city not to act like boors if you're a tourist (they deal with a lot of Brits on cheap flights and their German neighbors).

Japanese are second.

The stuff about needing to get their steps in is hilarious. But the story about the Olive Garden was a tad too much.

OP is the asshhole here. Either this is a -10/10 or OP is a complete doormat. OP you are such a jerk they were doing this to make you miserable and who could blame them? If I were with you I'd set off drones in the Sistine Chapel.

R60 spot on!

R55, you may want to go back and re-read because I'm not being a pompous ass, I'm simply stating facts. I grew up in fly-over country. I have relatives in rural midwest and plains states. They don't HAVE the options you have. To them, Olive Garden IS good, IS fancy, and IS what defines their idea of Italian.

The pompous ass was the one who claimed that nobody would ever say such a thing (comparing Italian food negatively to Olive Garden).

You're being a jackass, and you have very little reading comprehension ability

^ You're a pompous ass who's ashamed of his roots and I'm just stating facts, like you

And, of course, the idiots in OP's post are wealthy? Correct?

They sound like white trash! Money sure doesn't buy class.

OP How long have they been your in laws and didn't you know what they were like before this?

R48? After writing "...technically everyone from Canada down to Chili is 'American,'" you have a lot of nerve "educating" other people. Unless of course you have a special recipe you want to share with the class.

An aunt and uncle treated me to a land and sea trip of Greece, my first trip abroad at 21, decades ago. We started in Athens, then hopped from isle to isle by plane. We were part of a group of 6 couples and we three. These fellow Americans were execrable, bitching about everything, complaining constantly, loud. I was mortified. One woman berated a waiter because her salad had only two cucumber slices when others had three or four. Another man insisted on ordering a burger at most meals, then carried on because it was served on sliced bread and did not look like the ones back home. they did not like the hotel breakfasts, which were lovely and plentiful, because it wasn't like American food. I can't even describe how they behaved at a beach in Mykynos. Commandeering lounge chairs, resenting the fee for them, abusing anyone who approached them.

The scenery was gorgeous, weather lovely, and I wandered off by myself whenever I could, just to be free of the embarrassment . The best night of that trip was the one when I went out after dark in Mykynos by myself, met a nice Greek boy, and enjoyed.

R65 is JD Vance.

Italian-Americans laugh at canned spaghetti (Chef Boyardee), the Olive Garden and basically any type of processed Italian food.

In Italy, there is no such thing as Alfredo sauce. Pepperoni and/or pineapple would never be put on pizza in Italy. Marinara sauce doesn't exist in Italy. In Italian, the word "marinara" translates to "mariner's style" which is used to name dishes made with seafood. In America, marinara sauce doesn't have fish in it.

Chicken parmesan is also not a traditional Italian dish.

If most Italian-Americans aren't aware of any of this, do you think non Italian-Americans would know that the Olive Garden doesn't serve authentic Italian food?

Let’s start a thread next about trashy Europeans in Times Square.

I remember a similar story in Connie Francis’s autobio, where she relates how her mother spent her first trip to London criticizing everything & comparing everything to quasi-American equivalents. She said the cabbie turned completely around in his seat & yelled “Bully for you” at her.

Yes, because of course we all know that highly cultured people go on cruises.

Bring some COVID on your next cruise. That'll shut them up.

R74, The passengers on Cunard are not the same as the passengers on Cunard.

I am flummoxed by the response to my Olive Garden comment. Both R50 and F71 have posted good responses. After a nights sleep, it occurs to me that the most likely answer is that the people who take exception to the comment are Olive Garden customers and my comment hit a little too close to home.

[R74], The passengers on Cunard are not the same as the passengers on *Carnival*.

A cruise with the in laws sounds like hell.

Good story, funny.

UK here. Diet Coke is freely available.

R80, news flash. This isn't about you or the UK.

Write more, funny. Yes, sounds like he’ll.

Harsh R81.

I buy Diet Coke for a friend when she comes for dinner, and it's all labeled Coke Zero now. I haven't seen diet "anything" in months. This is CA.

As for the oval pizza, God forbid if they ordered a couple slices to go and saw they were squares, wrapped it paper. Or in a sit down, where it isn't cut and you use a knife and fork.

I'll take "Things That Never Happened" for $1000, Alex.

The Olive Garden line was a big tell. Diet Coke *is* available in Europe, known as Coca Cola Light. And these sorts of people might possibly make it as far as Europe once in their life, but they won't know what Dubai is, much less have any experience being there to compare it favorably to Italy.

"Ugly American" is a very dated stereotype so probably really good for trolling datalounge. By far the least wanted tourists in Europe are the Brits, who take their boorish drunken antics and vomit wherever they go. Israelis get an honorable mention for their aggressive rudeness and tendency to trash hotel rooms. Russians and Chinese are also up there. Americans don't crack the top ten of most-hated, although it's fun to make fun of them. In real life they are mostly polite and friendly, if ignorant, and their urge to tip way more than anyone else endears them to the waitstaff.

If the OP could understand speakers of German or Italian or Chinese, not to mention French or Spanish, he'd be posting similar stories about their behavior as tourists.

At least Americans don't hog empty sunchairs all day with their towels. Or go on drunk rages in the streets of Spanish resorts. Etc.

[quote]Let’s start a thread next about trashy Europeans in Times Square.

Don't let me or anyone else stop you, R72. Go right ahead.

As a follow up thread, may I suggest: "Why do Americans make every fucking little thing a zero-sum game arranged always to crown Americans as winners and the rest of the world as losers"

Another popular game for those always be winning Americans:

"Yeah, but how about the [insert nationality]?"

OP suggests that those of us who thought the Olive Garden comment was going too far must LOVE OG.

No, dear. It's just the opposite. Our point is that everybody knows that it's a highly Americanized caricature of Italian food. Everybody, including the people who go there.

McDonald's continues to be very popular around the world, but nobody who eats there thinks it's fine dining.

Your insistence that all of your in-laws loudly exclaimed that every meal they had in Italy was inferior to Olive Garden is therefore absurd. You may as well have claimed they went to a Michelin-starred restaurant every evening and each time, declared it inferior to McDonald's.

[quote]Our point is that everybody knows that it's a highly Americanized caricature of Italian food.

You are starting with a false assumption. As I mentioned above, part of Olive Garden's marketing is that the chefs are sent to Italy to train before they can work in the restaurant. Many people in the USA *do* think Olive Garden is authentic Italian food. Specifically, my in-laws think Olive Garden is authentic Italian food. The fact that those seven people don't fit your generalization does not make it false. You cannot possibly speak for or about *everybody*.

Similarly, "Diet Coke" does not exist in Europe. A person who is stubbornly insisting on a can with the word "diet" on it, will not find it in Europe. This was my point. She would not accept anything as a substitute. She wanted her can of "Diet Coke", not Coca-cola light or Coke Zero. She insisted on Diet Coke.

R89 You display your own ignorance pretty mightily in claiming that Diet Coke doesn't exist in Europe.

In 2009 icky Vicki Gunvalson of RHOC took a trip to Italy with her mother and daughter.

She defined ugly, entitled Americans

Travel they say improves the mind, an irritating platitude, which frankly, entrenous, is very far from true. Personally I’ve yet to find that longitude and latitude can educate those scores of monumental bores who travel in groups and herds and troupes of varying breeds and sexes till the whole world reels to shouts and squeals and the clicking of Roliflexes. Why do the wrong people travel,travel,travel when the right people stay back home?

Yes, I believe there are Americans who believe that Olive Garden is the ultimate in Italian cuisine. But they aren't the kind of Americans who want to travel, or who can afford to.

Your hubby paid for their tickets, didn't he, OP.

I went a tour of Europe on a bus for weeks when I was in my 20s. It was called Contiki. And I have to say it was a neck and neck race between the Americans and Australians as to who was more embarrassingly low class and fucking clueless.

Few people eschew culture like the Australians, R94. While the Americans set a low bar, they have at least made important and lasting accomplishments.

I'm not usually the one who jumps to stick up for the people of my birth country, but if forced to spend a week on a bus, I would prefer the Americans.

Plot twist: OP’s “Ugly Americans” are BLACK!

0/10. NICE TRY, OP.

R93, no... but close enough.

I think the Olive Garden stuff is plausible because there were cruise tours. So Olive Garden might be a restaurant the people from Ohio and Florida had in common.

Some of the other stories in the Op and other posts might be true, but jokes. Sometimes people are aware of their provincialism and exaggerate it as a way of owning it. The Dubai comment is likely.

A while back I took a week off and went to Cabo, just to relax and recharge.

I overheard this one soccer mom/frau talking to some other tourist, and saying the same thing you'll often hear Americans say when they're abroad:

"This all just reminds me of how lucky we are to be Americans!" and "I'm so glad my kids got to see this so they can understand how fortunate they are!".

In other words, all of this is shit compared to the great and glorious USA.

Mind you, Cabo is basically just one luxury resort after another, with a downtown full of tourist-y restaurants and bars. There really isn't much poverty to see, at least not compared to other, more rustic/rural places in Mexico and Latin America. Obviously, there is an off-the-beaten-tourist-track part of Cabo where the people live, but tourists never go there because there's nothing for them to see or do. I have no idea what this broad was talking about that was so worthy of her pity or that triggered her American superiority complex, but I really wanted to smack her in the face.

All this talk of Olive Garden is triggering me. I have a long-time acquaintance who lives in New Jersey and will travel into Manhattan to spend the day and specifically eat at “TOG” (his connotation) in Times Square.

He came to visit on a work trip not too long ago and wanted to meet over dinner at “TOG.” I flat out refused.

[quote] "Ugly American" is a very dated stereotype so probably really good for trolling datalounge. By far the least wanted tourists in Europe are the Brits, who take their boorish drunken antics and vomit wherever they go. Israelis get an honorable mention for their aggressive rudeness and tendency to trash hotel rooms. Russians and Chinese are also up there. Americans don't crack the top ten of most-hated, although it's fun to make fun of them. In real life they are mostly polite and friendly, if ignorant, and their urge to tip way more than anyone else endears them to the waitstaff.

This is so spot on R85 it needs to be repeated.

Indians are on the up-and-coming list too as they are as rude as Israelis and pushy and demanding too boot. Plus the hygiene thing.

You could be more tolerant of old folks.

You need a sense of humor, desperately.

You sound like you were their problem, like they were trying to get away from you. To do that, they used whatever they could think of. Who likes a miserable sourpuss on vacation? Your spouse definitely suffered.

What's the difference between Diet Coke and Coke Zero?

R5 Didn't you used to write how you want an American boyfriend, all the time?

You are unfunny, OP.

Keep your day job.

[quote] What's the difference between Diet Coke and Coke Zero?

The name

R65, you're beyond the pale. I fucking ate at Red Lobster yesterday and will probably eat at Olive Garden next week. Some being a jackass, making tons of bad assumptions in whatever race you're running to be superior. Jesus.

R90, must be one of the stupidest people on the planet, with their absolutely stubborn refusal to understand or get it. Jesus. THERE IS NO DIET COKE. The fact that the exact same thing is "Coke Lite" doesn't matter to some ignorant American rube who wants their DIET COKE. Are you unaware of how stupid some people can be? Jesus. YOU'RE being stupid. And arrogant, And obstinate. And annoying as fuck.

I understand OP. I've traveled with my "Ugly Canadian" family for many years who tried to find Tim Hortons restaurants (crappy Canadian donut shops) in every city we were in. I now travel alone.

Next time I'm in Europe, I'm going to order a diet coke and ask them to Irish it up a little. Is that okay, at least?

My partner and I invited his parents to travel to London with us and sail back to US on the Queen Mary2. It was a delightful trip. They are both now deceased and we are happy to have the memory. The trip was not a first for any of us but it was the only time we travelled abroad together. We had meals together but had some independence during the two week period. They were lovely travel companions.

Well that's a damn bore r112. Next time bring along a sad bitch cousin or something, somebody known for complaining a lot about everything. Have a real vacation.

The most ridiculous aspect of this thread, when most adventurous Americans travel, they usually do not want to eat and drink what they consume in the US. What's the fun in that? Most travelers want to experience a country's cuisine, that's part of the travel experience.

When I attended college in the UK for a year, one of my American colleagues dragged me to some tourist trap restaurant in London. He craved "a US style hamburger" and French fries! I told him, "You'll likely get a better meal in our local pub!" What a moron.

Took a tour of Italy years ago. Our group had wonderful guides. We usually had breakfast at the hotels, lunch was on us, and every other evening dinner at the hotel or select local restaurants. The hotel dinners were held in a private dining room, in one, there were lovely dark eyed Italian waiters who served from a small buffet table. There was a pasta course, followed by a meal of veal or fish with accompanied by vegetables and a salad which was served at table. Cheese and fruit, coffee and a pastry. The food was excellent, the portions "normal sized". Accompanied by wines, which the tourists swilled greedily. Approaching it all like an all you can eat buffet.

Lol the look of astonishment on the waiters faces as diners got up and brought their plates back for seconds of pasta! The servings were not enough for them. Also insisting that butter be brought to the table for their bread. Then complaining because the butter was not like the type they were used to.

How is butter not the same R115? I don't recall a difference when I traveled.

Have never understood why someone would go on an organized tour

The butter was not salted or processed as ours is, plus it seemed even in restaurants, it was not present at the table unless requested.

Hmm, R118, I don't use salted butter here in the states but like I said I don't remember any huge difference when I was in Europe. Granted I didn't get as far as Italy (on my bucket list). The farthest I've been so far is Spain mainly due to having had family there.

Since my husband died, I've considered it r117. It seems safer, more secure, I like the idea of having an itinerary and tour guides already set and hired. There are just practical things that he was good at and would be harder for me, I think. But I would definitely want some time to just wander as well.

I have a female friend who is so model gorgeous she always stops traffic and mens heads swivel when she walks by but she is also the most untraveled, uncultured, and badly educated person I've ever met. She grew up in Chicago in an Italian neighborhood (she's a white girl of Swedish ancestry) and loves "Italia". The men, the food, the culture. She would absolutely be a horrible tourist in Italy since she equates working class Sicilian-American food as authentic Italian. It almost makes me want to take her on trip there to see her bewilderment and the looks of horror on the faces of Italians once they get past her looks while she is befuddled that Alfredo isn't on the menu and they don't have her "baby" Caesar. She also carries a salt shaker in her purse because restaurant food isn't salty enough for her.

I'll also add her house is done in "Tuscan". I think you can guess what it looks like.

I haven’t met any American tourists like that traveling because I’ve never gone on a cruise or packaged tour. You don’t meet people like that if you go off the beaten path. I can believe OP though because my Oklahoma relative does nothing but complain and compare everything unfavorably to that paradise on earth, Stillwater OK. She didn’t like Italians because “they all look alike.” It’s as if she’s in her own universe with such deeply held preconceptions that she can’t see or hear.

And right at r121 is why I suspect it's actually kind of a thrill to be horrified by travel companions. There is a fun aspect to it, beyond all the pearl clutching. I think you should bring her on that trip, r121. I think you'd both have a blast.

I'll consider it R123. She's a nice, fun person but "oy vey" is she clueless. She get some hot dick though. Lucky bitch.

Even better r124. If she's brings all the boys to the yard, there just have to be some leftovers. That's just math.

Just don't get eaten, like Sebastian.

You had me until the Italian cars. Nah B, shit too made up. Five outta ten.

R125 Straight men, so good luck with that. Not the fake straight ones either.

R126 Strange that you picked that one out because I have heard similar from Americans about European cars. They are so small and sissy, that kind of thing.

R109 "THERE IS NO DIET COKE" Wut?

I don't get the car thing. Most of them drive the same types of Mazdas and Toyotas we do. Same cars, different names even though you will see Citroens too.

R128, and you haven't seen the city cars in Italy. They really do look like toy cars. There is one that isn't really considered a car, the Citroën Ami. A 14 year-old is allowed to drive it before they get their driver's license at 16. The Fiat 500 is everywhere. I believe it is smaller than a Mini Cooper.

R130 How many men in the U.S. do you see driving a car like the Fiat 500?

R131 Obviously I have seen those cars! I've been to Italy multiple times. That is my point.

R128, it's not that. I just don't believe his in laws said that while on vacation. These ESTs always have to many details and the rhythm of their stories, I can always tell when their off. Trust me.

R133, I don't have an opinion about whether OP's story is an EST, but I can't trust anyone who doesn't know the difference between "their" and "they're".

[quote]I have a female friend

Why are you calling someone you clearly loathe a "friend", R121?

I don't loathe her at all R135. She's a complete dingaling and dumb but sweet and very, very loyal.

R134, O whell Take kare kunt.

R131 You have to be 18, not 16, to get a driver's license in Italy.

Americans are horrific world travelers. No need to deflect to Brits, Israelis, Chinese, Indians, and Russians. The world knows about them just like they do about you now.

Don't get me started on all the FAT LEISUREWARE they insist on traveling with, you can spot them from a mile a way. And hear them too.

Please R139. Not ALL Americans are horrific world travelers. Just as not ALL of the others are bad. DL loves to lump everyone into one category.

""This all just reminds me of how lucky we are to be Americans!" and "I'm so glad my kids got to see this so they can understand how fortunate they are!". In other words, all of this is shit compared to the great and glorious USA."

When I was in South America, and saw rural poor little houses that looked like they'd been handmade from local clay, my first thought was "It looks like in Chile, the poor can be homeowners! If only that were true in the US!".

"This all just reminds me of how lucky we are to be Americans!" - LOL - a tacky beach destination with a Costco and Walmart about an hour away from the US border.

Reminds me why I avoid Cabo and Cancun (which I learned is only two hours away from Texas) and unfortunately even gay-friendly PVR these days. Too many of these "fortunate Americans" too lazy and imaginative to go beyond all-inclusives abroad.

Most foreigner these days think the US is a Repuglican gun-crazy shithole LOL. Quality of life in many places far surpasses Karen's bubble of strip malls and Olive Garden.

[quote]What's the difference between Diet Coke and Coke Zero?

Diet Coke - aspartame

Diet Coke with Splenda - sucralose and acesulfame potassium

Coke Zero - aspartame and acesulfame potassium

Coca Cola Light - cyclamate, aspartame, and acesulfame potassium in varying proportions according to the country; not available in US due to cyclamate ban.

Anything "lite", "zero" or "diet" is shit and loaded with chemicals.

Of course ugly Americans exist. Homely people exist everywhere!

R144 and sugar is so great?

I'll take sugar over chemicals any day R146.

and don't forget those wonderful South Americans OP

With problems such as all-night illegal fireworks, late-night residential sidewalk street parties, booming music from parked cars, drag racing, and even a live stripping routine that drew criticism on Twitter."

[quote]I was about 12, when I realized that traveling with family was the worst possible way to travel, a guarantee of frayed nerves, the crushing of unrealistic expectations, palls cast over amazing places, and vicious fights.

For me, traveling with family as a kid is what influenced me to never travel with [bold]anyone ever[/bold].

Also, I'm a very negative, miserable, person, so for the sake of all humanity, it's best that I travel alone. Or just...exist alone, period.

R143 English?

I believe OP; I believe hanging with family can be hell.

r150 They're harmful artificial sweeteners banned in most countries with the good sense to do so (i.e. not America).

r147 You're better off using monk fruit as a sweetener compared to other forms of sugar.

American tourists can be spotted easily, they wear awful clothes. White sneakers and baseball caps are their uniform, as well as a few lardy backsides and foghorn voices.

Allulose is the best artificial sweetener. Tastes closest to sugar. Expensive though.

This had to be on a Carnival Cruise wasn't it OP. Admit it, you rode the equivalent of Walmart of the Seas. What did you expect?

R156, Hah, that is exactly what I called it, a floating Walmart. ;)

R19 Are there good cruises left, in your opinion? I have held a dim view of cruises for a long while. However, a colleague was happy with a European river cruise he took because he got to cover more ground, moving the the next destination while sleeping, than in non-cruise travel. Seems like one would only get one day in the port city at a time, though. I know it's not the point of this thread, but I'm sure more than one of me would love to hear more about whether non-mega-cruises are any good.

There are some good cruises, they just are not bottom of the price range. And they tend to be more moderate ship size as far as cruse ships go. Not those mega, largest in the world until next year types with malls in the center of them or giant open amphitheaters off the back end.

Your in-laws sound very much like an idiot 64 year old woman who used to work for me. She and a friend went to Greece for 10 days. They thought their own faces would be far more interesting for people to look at in photos than the sites they were visiting. They stood in front of the Parthenon and all the other ancient sites in Athens and took photos of each other's punims so close you couldn't even tell where they were. When she brought her photos to work I went through the album and in not a single one could anyone tell where the hell they were. I said "Ethel, didn't you take any photos of the ancient sites in Greece other than your and your friend's faces? ". She stood there looking perplexed.

I'm glad that was back in the 80s. Today I would have been sued for elder abuse in the workplace.

R158, Not R19, but I have to say, take your rose colored glassed off regarding river cruises. You have very little time in a port. Generally, excursions are paid for as part of the cruise price; so, is you decide to go off on your own you are throwing away a couple hundred dollars. The boast are small, so what one can do on board is very limited. The itinerary can change due to river levels. I had one friend whose river tour turned into a coach tour because the river levels were so low. There are several Youtube video about the "surprises" of river cruises.

My experience is that the typical Viking Cruise customer is someone who made a ton of money in a building trade or similar and is going on a cruise because that is what "one does". They get off the boat in a tightly controlled environment of an excursion and get back to the familiar quickly. They are not interested in history or culture. They are just ticking off boxes.

My original posts were about my in-laws, but if someone is complaining that one has to pay for rolls at dinner or to use a toilet, it is probably a Viking Cruise passenger. I heard one berating a waiter for being a "sheeple" because Germany has Socialized Medicine. They are also prone to making inappropriate references to WWII. During a guided tour of a castle, one responded to a scolding by the tour guide with a Hitler Salute. He did not understand that he could go to jail for that in Germany. He also did not understand that US free speech laws do not apply to Germany.

R19, what do you know about Aida cruises?

[quote]American tourists can be spotted easily, they wear awful clothes. White sneakers and baseball caps are their uniform, as well as a few lardy backsides and foghorn voices.

In a nutshell, R154.

Also you may know them by their giant water and beverage bottles for they have a deathly fear of dehydration between the tour bus stop and the cathedral.

Most Americans dress pretty shabbily on their home turf, but when traveling they dress down, taking casual to a new low. They are preoccupied with comfort as though they were going on a safari not a tour of three European cities. The clothes, though, are always shiny and new (you could spot the folding creases and pinholes were they not synthetic.) The giant blinding white sneakers with the Velcro closures are oversized, with super-thick white soles that give them a somewhat uneasy, top-heavy gait. Some women wear flats (perfect for cobblestones) and often some crazy 3/4-length clamdigger sort of thing, but looser and with odd ties flapping around at the bottoms. Men never wear anything that half approaches leather, let alone dress shoes; the big, fat grumpy ones who really resist travel will sometimes wear flip-flops to show their contempt for the ordeal. The clothes stand out because they are so white or light in color and so bereft of shape or cut or fashion. Besides the lack of a trim profile anywhere in sight, the blobby formlessness is aggravated by lots of sticky-outy things: the water bottles attached with carabiners at the waist, little satchels for passports and tucked away money bags, the fanny packs, the little bag for the...

From the Packing List suggestions at ricksteves.com

[quote]Pants/shorts. Bring two pairs: one lightweight cotton and another super-lightweight pair for hot and muggy big cities. Jeans can be too hot for summer travel (and are slow to dry). Many travelers like lightweight convertible pants/shorts with zip-off legs. While not especially stylish, they’re functional in Italy, where you can use them to cover up inside churches while still beating the heat outside. Button-down wallet pockets are safest (though still not nearly as thief-proof as a money belt). If you bring shorts, one pair is probably enough. Shorts can double as a swimsuit for men when swimming in lakes or the sea.

The loudness is odd. They are even louder than they are "back home," and my observation/theory is that many are unaware of how booming their voices are. The assumption that they are invisible and that no one understands what they say is a factor. So is the nervous American habit of people feeling obliged to talk all the time (Italians and Spaniards are not whisper quiet, taciturn types, but they are having actual conversations and enjoying themselves, not making inane observations to break the silence and misery. It also stems from an American desire to identify themselves as Americans, thinking they will get a cookie, maybe. At the hotel, at the restaurant, in that little shop when they use the credit card they can always find some reason to explain that they "we're from Sioux Falls, that's in South Dakota, in the United States of America, and this city is so quaint!" But in the street, in a bar or pub they unknowingly speak louder to attract attention, hoping someone will approach them, "Is that by chance an American accent? Oh, are you visiting from there? How exciting for us to have American guests! What do you think of our country/city? Isn't it quaint?" The loud voices are unwittingly bait, hoping for a fish that never bites. They want desperately to be asked where they are from and what is it like there and what they do on a Saturday night for fun; they want to be asked to talk about themselves and that their houses are bigger, their people bigger, their cars bigger, their streets bigger, their food portions bigger, their drinks bigger....

When this EST is done, I think someone should start a thread about pretentious Euro Trash.

I'll start with, "were on our 6 week vacation here in the US, but since we don't usually tip waiters where we are from, we are going to pretend we didn't get the memo about this tradition in the US to save a couple bucks and stiffing the waitstaff. This will cut down our travel expenses immensely as we do are best to befriend an unwitting American to stay with the entire time to avoid actually paying for a hotel room.

R163, you missed the biggest way to spot an American tourist: custom matching T shirts of the "Let's all Get Ship Faced!" variety. Even if not custom, they will all buy the same T shirt at the first tourist trap.

This thread is more of the same - DLers repeating tropes from the last time they left Flyoverstan back in the 80s.

"I may be a hairdresser at a strip mall in Arkansas, but at least I did not wear white sneakers when I went on the Petrillo tour with Mother and Aunt Gladys back in 1987. Even though they strongly urged me to as the espadrilles I bought from International Male were not all that sturdy."

I’ve mellowed about Americans travelling after a few decades living outside the US. Americans often can’t win. They are condemned for not travelling outside the US and condemned when they do travel outside the US.

I’ve been lucky enough to travel extensively for work and pleasure, and it never ceases to amaze me how worked up people get about other travellers they encounter. People want to automatically put themselves above others in some kind of imaginary hierarchy. The old ‘I’m a traveller, not a tourist’ delusion they’re somehow ‘blending in’ 12 hours after arriving to a country for the first time ever.

Be polite and situationally self aware, but other than that, who cares. Everyone wants something different from travel.

Europeans can be just as rude. I have met many who have come to the US to see it and in the same breath insult the people who live here. "You Americans are fat, you Americans dont have good public transpiration, You Americans houses are too big, You Americans can't speak a second language, You Americans, You Americans......"

Shesh, yes, we know those are true, we don't need to be reminded by every European visitor what's wrong with us. No one was asking in the first place. It's tacky to blurt that shit out in someone else's country. I would never go to the UK and say You Brits drink too much or Paris and say You Parisians are too Cunty.

R152 But you said that Coca Cola Light is banned in US. It's not banned here in Europe. And neither is Coca Cola Zero. But we don't have either of those Diet versions. At least I never saw them.

Artificial sweeteners have never been shown to be hazardous to your health, stop the madness. This coming from someone who probably sticks their tongue in an asshole for sex.

[quote]little satchels for passports and tucked away money bags, the fanny packs, the little bag for the...

Are you kidding? Ever seen European tourists in the US? Same shit. Only socks with sandals instead of bright white athletic shoes. Tourists from anywhere are generally awful. I used to live in a beach town and during the summer I never ventured to the beach or restaurants near the beaches. I'd stay tucked away in my little pocket in a quiet neighborhood and only go to the places familiar to locals. I would finally venture out around October.

R71, Ah, the family memories you've evoked! My Sicilian side comprised the "make the sauce for hours" types, for lasagne usually, but at Christmas to cook snails or eels in! I remember once also my mother had a whim to make gnocchi, so in my Grandmother's apartment's 6' x 4' kitchen on a teeny table, she did, from scratch!

So I was very surprised in Italy to find out that first, Italians are spare with sauce; and second, pasta isn't the meal. Nevertheless, I quickly adapted, thrilled to be eating "authentically"!

The best pizza in my life was on Capri, outdoors, overlooking the sea. The best Coca-Cola was in Florence, soda so cold the liter bottles had ice particles inside, welcome on a sweltering Tuscan afternoon. The best calamari with lemon was on a deck overhanging Lago di Maggiore.

The man who is tired of London may be tired of life, but the man who is tired of Italy and her food is tired of the best of life.

R172 back; I forgot the best! I once, and never before nor since, had deep-fried zucchini flowers, a rare treat for here we don't treasure the precursors to the fruit. The dining was family-style, on a second-floor terrace across the street from the Colosseum at sunset.

Funny. Europeans make fun of American tourists, Americans make fun of European tourists. Everyone dreads the hordes of Chinese tourists and I'm guessing that in the different European countries they mock each other. The Spanish hate the Brits, everyone hates the Germans, etc.

We're all cunts, darlin'.

[quote]Artificial sweeteners have never been shown to be hazardous to your health, stop the madness.

r174 Everyone who isn't Japanese and visits Japan is a 'gaijin' and treated accordingly. They're not rude to you, but you definitely are 'othered' if you look like a foreigner.

That said, they probably don't know what to do when they encounter their half-Japanese natives who look foreign (courtesy of the numerous American soldiers with weak pull out game).

Not quite true R175

I just posted that r177. There is no way you read the entire study and analyzed it properly. None whatsoever.

Stop it.

No, I didn't read it but I don't need to as I've seen other studies.

That study was just published September 7, 2022. Surely you realize how scientific research and discovery works. As more information is gathered, the scientific consensus changes.

R178 from your post.

[quote]Conclusions The findings from this large scale prospective cohort study suggest a potential direct association between higher artificial sweetener consumption (especially aspartame, acesulfame potassium, and sucralose) and increased cardiovascular disease risk.

I swear for a quite a while DL has had someone who works in the artificial sweetener industry pop up with the "they are harmless" stuff every time this subject comes up. Barring anything else, they taste like absolute shit anyway.

[quote] R152 But you said that Coca Cola Light is banned in US.

I said that cyclamate, which is used in Coca Cola Light, is banned in the US—at R143. That isn’t my post at R152.

As far as R152’s assertion that the non-nutritive sweeteners mentioned are banned in “most countries with good sense,” but not the US: with the exception of two, every non-nutritive sweetener approved in the US is also approved by the EU/EFSA.

The two are: cyclamate, which has been banned in the US since 1969 but is EU approved, and monk fruit, which is available in the US but is currently under review and yet approved by the EU.

It would surprise me if a few "sweetener company shills" posted on here, r181. But, honestly, I think it's might be a generational thing. A lot of the DLers, as you well know, are 55+ and grew up on all of this garbage. They were told it was fine and "harmless." They also were more likely exposed to lead as children from the paint used in their homes and their own toys as children, and we already know the negative consequences of lead exposure in childhood.

I'm not saying that there aren't any health conscious people who are 55+, but it is more common with millennials and Gen Z. We're the "label readers" generation. We're also more likely to be vegans (which I am).

*wouldn't

Correction to R182...

"not yet approved by the EU"

R183 I'm of that generation, well tail end, but I was also raised that natural is always better than chemical. No margarine was ever in our house growing up, it was always butter. I read labels and avoid HFCS, artificial sweeteners and most processed garbage. Added sugar is also a no no for me if it's unnecessary like in the chicken salads found in delis. Too many of them have added sugar. Not sure why as it's not something I'd add if I made it at home.

This was a long time ago... Mother and adult daughter visit the Netherlands and have one suitcase dedicated to can and packaged food. You know, because they can't eat foreign food. Looking back I wonder if they really couldn't bring themselves to eat Dutch food or because they were too cheap to eat out. Either way, embarrassing.

I didn't see the above on action. They proudly told me what they did.

Asians do this too R187. They don't do well on foreign food and always seem to travel with noodles and stuff but Dutch food? Kind of understandable them not wanting to eat it. It's rather bland and some it it does seem gross but I wouldn't travel with food at all. Just stick to cheese, bread and Indonesian food.

I definitely acknowledge there are plenty in your generation that are more health conscious r186, but you're still, sadly a minority. It seems like it took ages for some of my older relatives to start actually listening to me and change their diets. But most of them had/have a very blase attitude regarding artificial chemicals, processed foods, high sodium, etc. And they all have high blood pressure, weight issues, hormone imbalances, and/or diabetes. They'd rather eat garbage and spend their hard-earned money on costly prescription drugs to fix what is, essentially, a dietary problem. It's mind-boggling.

R173, I don't know where you live, but many Italian restaurants in CA do the fried zucchini blossoms when they are in season. I like the Osteria Mozza in LA (Nancy Silverton and Joe Bastianich), or Mozza in Newport Beach.

I laughed at 'the best Coca Cola I had was in Italy' bit.

R190, PA. Lucky you, though! (Of course, I could grow my own, but I like the memory as is!)

[quote]The best Coca-Cola was in Florence, soda so cold the liter bottles had ice particles inside

That's actually not very Italian. Coke is usually served room temp or perhaps cool. Icy drinks just aren't an Italian thing. What locale in Florence was this?

I love the little glass Coke bottles you see in bars there. And BTW: Italian Coke is made with sugar not HFCS as it is in the US.

R191, All true!

The trick to eating well in the Netherlands, at least back in the day (aka, not this century!), was to eat Indonesian.

R173 So American.

R193 Yep, and that's because HFCS is subsidised in the U.S. Sugar is cheaper in Europe.

When was in Amsterdam, I was constantly mistaken for a native, and I want to take a moment to feel smug about it! Of course I'm tall and blond/blue (like i could have been an extra in "Midsomnar"), and was wearing a decent coat and leather shoes, that helped.

And I liked the native Dutch foods. The breakfasts were awesome, and the broodjies always tasty, Northern European food isnt bad. It's good, simple, plain food well prepared, with more fish and dairy than in southern cuisines, and fewer fresh veggies, because that's what is naturally available. I seem to be the only one who appreciates northern food, maybe I'm wrong, or maybe these preferences are embedded in my DNA.

When I was in Chile, I could spot the American tourists a mile away, but not because of baseball caps and flip-floos!

No, it was because of their colorful goretex parkas and Patagonia clothes, these weren't flyover louts, these were wrll-educated nature nerds there to see the Atacama or Tierra del Fuego, or who were on their way to Antarctica. But at least they behaved themselves and some made an effort to look presentable at dinner, but during the day they stood out terriblr, among the fashionably dressed Chileans.

Patagonia, lol. I admire the brand and its ethos but oh my God, the clothes are UGLY.

I love this thread. The travel observations (dated and current, the stereotypes, the examples....

and the artificial sweetener debate on the side!

Keep em coming.

[quote]It would surprise me if a few "sweetener company shills" posted on here, A lot of the DLers, as you well know, are 55+ and grew up on all of this garbage. They were told it was fine and "harmless." I'm not saying that there aren't any health conscious people who are 55+, but it is more common with millennials and Gen Z. We're the "label readers" generation. We're also more likely to be vegans (which I am).

Oh for fucks sake. Who knew Gen Z were such pearl clutchers over artificial sweeter. Gen-X were the first to DISTRUST what the big companies said. Everything you think you invented was done already. Vegan? wow, how original. Never heard of it until now. Oh wait, I have, it was around even before I was born. Label reading? Wow, aren't you clever. It's almost as if you were so clueless as to not realize nutritional labels didn't always exist on every product and it was young Gen-X that pushed for that law to go into effect decades ago.

Poor Gen-Z has forgotten that their hundreds of energy drinks loaded with Caffeine, sugar, L-carnitine and taurine all of which are not good for you in large amounts are just as "harmless" as the sweeteners they have vilified if not much worse. In the US, more than 20,000 emergency room visits in 2011 were associated with energy drink use. How many went to the ER for Aspartame? The answer is NONE!

By the way, there are probably more than half a dozen "artificial sweeteners" on the market. Which one exactly do you have a problem with? Which one is the killer? You know they all have totally different chemical make ups right? Oh right, that thought never crossed your simplistic mind.

[quote]I am using Equal in my coffee until you remove it from my cold dead hands.

Ok?

Enjoy your cardiovascular disease and hormone issues. Nobody gives a shit.

There is nothing more DL Aspie than this thread, which is based on an EST, devolving into a conspiracy-theory laden debate about artificial sweeteners.

I cannot stand sugar in coffee or tea and I rarely drink soda, artificial sweeteners are not an issue for me. On the other hand, one would assume 'fake sugar' wouldn't be safe to use. Aren't most of these sugar substitutes basically chemicals?

Wasn't saccharin banned many years ago? This was after years of Sweet & Low supposedly being deemed safe. Seems so much of this crap isn't thoroughly researched before being marketed.

It seems HFCS is added to almost everything. If you care about your health, read the damn labels.

Goodbye saccharine

American tourists in Europe (or Asia, South America, Australia) are at two major "disadvantages" regarding appearance: suitcase packing limitations and over-all purpose. How many stylish pairs of shoes or types of outerwear or dinner outfits can be expected of travellers always sightseeing?

R207, you don't need many.

Fall/Spring/Winter: a good pair of Merrell walking shoes, two or three good pairs of trousers (never jeans), long sleeve wool or cashmere polo shirts, cardigan(s) to match or boiled wool vest, two dress shirts, , shirt jacket or light boiled wool jacket, scarf, and appropriate outer wear such as a oiled canvas jacket. It seems like a lot, but the reality is that the bulk of my suitcase is underclothes as the jacket, outerwear, and one set of clothes is being worn and not packed.

I have learned that having a version of a sweater set is very practical when traveling. Knitwear packs well. A black wool or cashmere polo with a matching black cardigan covers a lot of situations. (Save the snide remarks about pearls.) Also, boiled wool is your friend. It packs well, it is warm, and it can go from sightseeing to a nice restaurant.

Summer: Merrell walking shoes, sandals, three pairs of linen trousers or shorts depending on the case, cotton polo shirts, linen shirts, shirt jacket, swimsuit.

Either can serve me for two weeks. Again, the bulk of my suitcase is taken up with underwear. This can all be in a carry on suitcase. I see American tourists traveling with what seem like coffins on wheels and they still look like an unmade bed.

Or they are not prissy gay men and don't give a fuck what they look like so long as they are comfortable.

Plus a goodly number of "poorly dressed American tourists" are retirees and most certainly don't give AF what they look like at age 75

[quote] are retirees and most certainly don't give AF what they look like at age 75

If they have given up to that extent, then they are the walking dead.

[quote] I see American tourists traveling with what seem like coffins on wheels and they still look like an unmade bed. [quote]

One 24" suitcase can easily fit two weeks' worth of day and night outfit changes and three pairs of shoes. Winter changes things up a bit. But, yes, let's not blame American sloppiness and infatuation with comfort wear to packing limitations.

Don't get me started on men who think cotton sweatpants (the baggy 1980s kind) are a good idea anywhere outside the house or women who think trendy jogging outfits for anyone above a size 6 is a good idea anywhere outside the house. Much less in another country.

One of the reasons old people wear the athletic shoes is because they are comfortable and many have problems with their feet. Much easier to take these on their trips.

Elderly are one thing, and there are tasteful ways to achieve comfort while not looking like a lazy American slob.

Btw, in 2022 everyone wears comfortable clothing when traveling, but there is a stylish way to do so and unstylish ways.

I am the ugly American I hate what I am I am the ugly American I hate what I am I take a picture of your founding father I hate a picture of your local color I take a picture of your founding father I take a picture of your local color We're so ugly, we're so ugly We're so ugly I am the ugly American I am the ugly American I am the ugly American I hate what you are Take a picture of your declasse Take a picture and you only say Take a picture of your ugly country Take a picture and you only say I am the ugly American I am the ugly American I am the ugly American I hate what you are Take a picture of your declasse Take a picture of your declasse Take a picture and you only say Take a picture and you only say We're so ugly, we're so ugly We're so ugly I am the ugly American I know what I am I am the ugly American I am what I am Say you're cultured 'cause you had a king? Your little boys sleep with their sisters I am the ugly American I know what I am I am the ugly American I love what I am

R208, It was rhetorical I traveled all over W. Europe, the UK, and a bit of Morocco for decades. I know how to pack.

My point was that it's just too damn bad that some prisses here take offense when American tourists dress like tourists and not residents with closets/chifferobes with stylish outfits and shoes. I think German women dress the most sophisticated, with Italians second. But would they dress the same fashionable ways to fly here and visit, say, the Grand Canyon?

R208 the UK is part of W. Europe

German women and stylish don't go together to me. Strange. German women always come across as mannish and sensible dressers to me. Most northern European women seem like this to me. Almost dykish even if straight.

SEE ALSO: Dressing Up On Airplanes And Ladies Wearing Gloves, Eldergay Lamentations About The Death Of

R217 But you will never see those women stuffing themselves into leggings to galavant in public.

Your typical American frau will. No one needs to see that.

And their typical overweight BF/husband, at least 20 lbs overweight after a diet of all you can eats and Cheesecake Factory portions, will be a big blob of oversized shirts and baggy shorts past his knees next to her.

You can't beat Americans at tackiness, unless yo're a brash new money Middle Easterner, great company.

Unfortunately finding a tolerable American tourist is the exception rather than the norm. Living in London I see Bob and Patty from Dayton, Ohio almost every day. Always the same look. Baseball cap of local football/baseball club, Mom jeans, New Balance trainers, backpack or fanny pack. They're always so extra. And usually with a bored whiny teenager in tow. Always louder than everyone around them. And very stupid. I do recall one time an American tourist asking me why there was a buzzing sound when the pedestrian crossings turned green and I said oh it's for the blind. And she replied "You let blind people drive! That's crazy!"

I'll never understand why people drag teens and kids along on these trips. My uncle took his 12 year old son to St Thomas and got pissed because all the kid wanted to do was stay in the room with his ipad and play games.

Brits can be just as insufferably thick

"Living in London I see Bob and Patty from Dayton, Ohio almost every day. "

You don't notice tourists like me, with my expensive dark walking shoes and decent jacket, unless I'm carrying a suitcase or standing in line to see the Crown Jewels. No, it's only the "Ugly Americans" who stand out and get noticed, the non-ugly Americans blend into the crowds, until they open their mouths.

It's the same for any tourist or traveler, only the obnoxious ones stand out enough to get noticed.

I have never been on a cruise, but as a nearly 20-year Datalounger, I want to go just to marinate in this type of behavior, only so I can come back here and bitch about it.

Go to a Golden Corral, R225. Same experience, but much cheaper and shorter in duration.

R221 Americans are some of the most clueless travelers. They get lost easily because unlike Suburbanville, USA, streets are not laid out on a grid and marked by street signs at corners (they don't know how to read maps and don't know street names are on buildings).

They don't know how to navigate public transportation systems in cities where it is the most efficient way to get from Point A to Point B because in the US only poor colored people use subways, trains, and buses. They are upset when cars can't fit their gigantic asses because all they know are oversized gas guzzling SUVs and 4x4s (in which they sit in traffic and lines for fast food drive through windows).

Because they are so fat on average, you can spot them by their waddle. Painfully walking amongst fast walking locals, some heaving and out of breath, because they have no exercise in their life and have never walked more than a block in the last six months.

They get upset easily when they get lost and don't know how things work in other country. They do throw tantrums easily. At Istanbul last month (which admittedly is a huge airport), a Karen created a scene at the airport hotel because she could not find the hotel after two hours of searching (yes she was overweight and complained of foot problems). No offense, but if you're so stupid you can't find the only airport hotel in an airport after two hours, that's on you (it's literally on the airport website map).

At restaurants, they criticize every single thing on the menu that isn't a burger and fries (eww, what's THAT? yuck, they eat THAT? I don't know what that is, it sounds gross though).

At airports they are slow and confused, as if they've never gone through a security line before, and don't understand what efficiency is. They hold up everyone and everything to slowly take off all things they should know by now need to come off at airport security (except for shoes, which is a huge plus abroad) but they still take forever and can't get through a line without mouthing off something or other about how inconvenient the process is to the agent or two each other or to random locals who just want them to keep the fuck moving.

The only exception to these stereotypes are 1) clearly wealthy people who travel extensively 2) businesspeople who travel extensively 3) GenZ who travel extensively.

[quote]" I am using Equal in my coffee until you remove it from my cold dead hands." Ok? Enjoy your cardiovascular disease and hormone issues. Nobody gives a shit.

None of which I have. Because, I don't live in a world of conspiracy theories dreamed up by house Fraus.

[quote]Go to a Golden Corral, [R225]. Same experience, but much cheaper and shorter in duration.

You must be one of those poor tacky gay I have read about. The only cruse that's like that is Carnival. Maybe stop being such a tightwad, open your wallet and pay for a decent cruise next time.

R229, eh, not exactly. As I mentioned up-thread. The passengers on a Viking Cruise may dress better (Men in the MAGA uniform of khakis and polos, women in tight dresses with shoulder cutouts and very expensive dyed blond hair) , but they act the same. I have also found that the passengers on Royal Caribbean are just a better class of tacky.

[quote] Go to a Golden Corral, [R225]. Same experience, but much cheaper and shorter in duration.

I have never seen the Amish on a cruise ship.

Americans on holiday are pretty obnoxious to be around, sorry to say. You'd think that they would tend to be slightly more cultured than the average American if they are travelling out of their country (don't a very high percentage of Americans not have passports, or has that changed now?) but they are often as tedious as you'd expect.

And so fucking LOUD. What the hell is wrong with Americans that means they need to shout when talking to someone right next to them?

To be fair, the cost of flying within and outside of the US is expensive. Even staying at a mid range hotel is expensive if you're staying for a few days. So it makes sense that people wouldn't have a passport. If you include a family, it can be overwhelming.

Italian food is different from Italian American food. So if you naturally have a limited palate, I can understand why this would be surprising and somewhat upsetting.

Hotels are actually significantly cheaper outside of the US. You can stay in major international cities for less than $100 night.

I'm not talking about Delhi or Kabul or Bogota. You can find many hotels in PARIS for example for $80 or so a night and roudtrip airfare for $600 (from the West Coast). We are in San Francisco and researching for a Paris trip in January.

Meanwhile, a flight to New Orleans is $900 and hotels seem to be around $200/night.

Daily expenses between the two are expensive.

So, no, cost is not the reason why citizens of the wealthiest nation in the world are travel boors.

^ Woops, daily expensves between the two are comparable is what I meant to say.

[quote]So, no, cost is not the reason why citizens of the wealthiest nation in the world are travel boors.

Of course there are Americans who cannot afford international travel. There are also Americans who say they cannot, yet they can keep two always quite new expensive cars, teeth whitening, food delivery 5x or 6x a week, dog sitters, lawn services, $25,000 kitchen remodels every time the taste in backsplash or countertop materials change, a lot of discretionary shopping, and some expensive vacations in their own country.

The bigger reason is that it simply doesn't occur to them; they've no curiosity. They read a State Department travel advisory for Denmark and are out off but the scary talk of political upheaval and possible demonstrations. They are afraid to leave Chicago for fear that a gypsy in Paris will steal a moneybelt - or shot them in the face! (As happens so often.,)

Americans fear travel. They have in the back of their minds that the USA is so advanced that all other countries must be a hardship: quaint tiny witches' cottages and folkloric clothes, all of the peasants in Brussels or Lisbon or Vienna, just scraping by, warming their hands by a hot coal dropped into a tin can, heating a small pot with but one old potato in it. They think foreigners are lined up to rob them -- and in foreign languages, no less.

Or they think red carpets will be rolled out, opinions will be asked, Levi's jeans will be admired (if mispronounced.) They worry that unattached members of their party will become engaged to green card grabbing foreigners. Then there are the kidnappings, like in those films.

OP, it sounds like your in-laws didn't have much fun. Did they enjoy any of it? What was their favorite part?

I'm guessing their favorite part was when you ditched them for the Amalfi Coast. It was probably the only time they could relax and not have to worry about offending the sensibilities of their uptight son-in-law. They probably hoped that spending hours "searching for Diet Coke" would give them a break from you. But you ended up tagging along anyway just so you could mock them. The power walk at the church was just an excuse to have a moment's respite from the condescension. Getting back on the bus at the Acropolis was just an opportunity to vent to each other about you.

They're probably back home now laughing with their friends about their arrogant prisspot son-in-law.

Yes, ugly Americans are real. A trip to Walmart explains it.

Walmart is a bit extreme. Everyday life in Anywhere, USA will suffice. The guiding principles:

1) Americans don't care about anyone but themselves 2) Americans think situations should be adjusted to cater to them, why do they need to adapt 3) When you think in the mindset of #1 and #2, you are closed minded and selfish, possibly lazy and entitled.

From idiotic MAGATs in Flyoverstani to self-indulgent Coastal liberals, Americans are all about the ME-ME-ME and MY WAY OR NO WAY.

Are all these "Ugly Americans" being described, "oversized shirts and baggy shorts past his knees", from flyover land or a NY or New Jersey suburb?

Most urban people from large cities are somewhat stylish. The only people I see dressed like this in Manhattan are usually flyover tourists, they stick out like a sore thumb. Even poor New Yorkers don't dress in this manner.

The funniest lines about a certain segment of Americans, was from a friend who once took a cross country car trip with her husband, they traveled from their NYC base to California. "Once you get into middle America, even pet dogs are fat! I'm not kidding! The average womens size in some of these places must be 18. I've never seen so many overweight people in my life."

Most wealthy people from large cities are somewhat stylish.

Your typical urban dweller is just as likely to be caught in leisure-comfort-wear, at least two sizes into overweight, even in NYC 24/7. Same trashy mentality, just with some urban edge.

R237, your post only put your own insecurities on display.

My original post was about behavior not appearances or body types. Since the thread has devolved into that, I feel I should make some corrections.

America is a country of extremes. For every morbidly obese person, there is someone who is at the gym five days a week. I have been on several cruises. You see both extremes. Often the gym is packed. Then there is the pairing that I see primarily in the USA: an fit man with a fat wife.

I live in Germany at a seaside resort area. My perception is that Germans are more middle of the road. You don't have the morbidly obese. People are overweight, but but grossly so. Similarly, you don't see gym bodies as much. If a person is fit, it is most likely due to an activity such as biking, hiking, or climbing. Also, I don't see the Jack Sprat couples in Germany.

There's a reason Americans abroad say they're Canadian. Americans (especially American tourists) have a terrible reputation.

R242, I'm not insecure at all. At 57, I'm quite comfortable with who I am. I long ago stopped caring what others think of me. And I try to not judge others. Just enjoy your time here on Earth and live and let live.

Good thing Brits have so much more class.

[quote]Good thing Brits have so much more class.

I just threw up, a lot, in my mouth.

I adore R163.

In the actual novel, the term “ ugly American” is a term of affection.

R163, that "I want a cookie thing is a Mid-West thing. They all think they are Dorthy from Kansas who just arrived at the Emerald City. They want all the city folk to know they are just an innocent corn fed child not some city slicker. They think this makes them appealing because they are honest, good matured REAL Americans.

The loud thing is an East Coast trait. Especially NYC, New Jersey thing. You can always spot the transplants in California because they are exceptionally loud and don't think there is anything wrong with it. They think it's some kind of positive trait that everyone should be loud and outgoing to survive in a city like.. You guessed it, New York. They talk over each other as a way of life. Silence is not golden, it's a weakness.