Billboard: Pop Music Struggling to Create New Stars

You don't say .....

Because people make music for the sole purpose of going viral these days....

When the music industry hopefully soon at this point begins to transition out of its love for Gen Z-inspired nursery rhyme-repetitive song riffs and visually trashy performers, perhaps they'll rediscover original creativity and stars-grooming once again.

It's very simple: it stopped being about singing. They would rather find someone who looks good on glossy paper and can dance a little bit than promote real singers.

Artists now have talked about how they're forced to do make up stupid Tik Tok dances to sell their songs in order to get a viral hit.

The problem is indie music is popular, which is what I listen to. It’s a lot of indie artists / bands releasing a few strong singles with no albums and no record label backing them.

There’s a lot of great songs out there that deserve to be hits on the radio but record labels don’t pick them up and push them.

Like last year I was obsessed with “Bad Kids” by TTRRUUCES and that should have been a huge hit but I don’t even know if they’re on a record label.

It’s not that there’s no good music out there or good artists who could be big, it’s just record labels aren’t investing in them.

Maybe “pop” music is simply dead. It simply has to no place anywhere anymore. Who the hell listens to the radio, there’s no MTV / VH1 anymore. Like what’s pop now?

It’s partly the way the charts are compiled. YouTube videos get counted as a ‘purchase’ (or towards one anyway). I don’t know if Tik tok videos do but it wouldn’t surprise me. An ‘artist’ takes a shit and tweets about it so they go top 10. I’m exaggerating but it’s not that far from the truth.

The era of mega superstars like Madonna or Michael was far far over

I blame technology. First it was auto tuned songs and then auto tuned instruments. And of course “fans” that support untalented performers like Drake, Bieber, Bad Bunny, etc.

Harry Styles and Taylor Swift … why???

At least Ariana and The Weeknd can sing.

Execs are just whining they cant make them the britney factory way anymore. There is niche music for every kind of voice, identity, music style out there, these wannabes are still coming out factory style but execs need to manufacture more pop starlets with different sub genres to cover all the bases with less reward. Its not one giant audience idolizing the same pop star, its a fractured audience.

That's quite good r6 but I cant understand a word they're saying.

Pop music as we knew it is just as dead as network television.

BTS is alive and well. The reunited for a concert in Busan yesterday and showed why no American act can touch them in live performance.

[quote]and the difficulty of influencing TikTok's algorithm

LOL - what they've identified as a flaw is actually a desired feature.

As they say in gaming, Git Gud.

Mainstream music has become far too corporate, and those who may be genuinely talented are manipulated into producing what sells rather than what is original or interesting. The audience should drive what is popular, not the executives.

Let it die, move on to the next thing. The kids already have, why is it taking the adults so long to move on as well?

I can't help but think that streaming is partly to blame. Streaming has made it so there isn't a lot of money to be made in music unless you're a big name. I know people just say who cares that music doesn't sell anymore, acts will make money in touring. What about the people who actually create the music? The songwriters, producers, and musicians that pop music has traditionally relied upon to create hits? I don't see what the incentive is for people with those talents to pursue a career in creating music today.

It's just no longer the gravy train it once was. I don't think you'll have Elton John / Michael Jackson rich pop stars again.

[quote] I don't see what the incentive is for people with those talents to pursue a career in creating music today.

If they're natural musicians nothing will stop them. The rewards just won't be so great.

Who cares anyway? - pop music has been shit for years. It has no value.

There will never be another Madonna MJ level superstar. It is what it is.

[quote]There will never be another Madonna MJ level superstar.

Hope not. They were GHASTLY.

I thought the real problem was that producers are lazy and greedy. It used to be you developed an act and got them gigs on tv and interviews on radio and put out a video to show in clubs when that became popular. Now producers want everything formed and ready to go without doing any work themselves. That is why Beyonce, Rhianna and Taylor are still the only big acts, no guess work or real work required. Also keeping your starring acts inter changeable means you never have to give up most of the profits, at some point they will need to develop acts if they want long money with the talent.

I watched an episode of the Voice recently, I hadn't seen it in years, those kids can't sing, they were terrible. None of them could stay on key and most struggled with their breath control, I was shocked, they were fucking horrible. I'm sure that because of tik tok every young person that does videos believes they have what they need to be a star. It's pitiful.

[quote]There’s a lot of great songs out there that deserve to be hits on the radio but record labels don’t pick them up and push them.

It's like r17 said music is too corporate this destroyed the movie industry too. It became all about safe bets when it used to be somewhat of a gamble. You make something and hope it hits. . . not anymore it has to be a sure thing. Most pop music is written by about three people and they use computers to duplicate similar beats and melodic tracks to whatever songs were most popular before. They aren't creating new music just slightly manufacturing new songs from old via computer.

Greed and risk aversion has killed music and movies.

Because new music sucks so much that people would rather make a 37 year old song one of the biggest worldwide hits in 2022.

Olivia was huge last year and she can't sing at all. This is painful to listen to.

Of course, neither could Britney, Janet or Madonna and they are considered icons today. At least those 3 could at least perform and put on a good show.

So the Disney pipeline to pop stardom is broken? If so, good.

At least Adam Levine is out of the pop music rotation?

R17 R17 Oh come on, that concept has been around forever! It’s always been about selling.

When a new artist had a hit song, the goal was to recreate it again. Just listen to the first singles of The Supremes, Jackson 5, and The Beatles. Their first few hits were just copies of their first hit using the same chords and tempo.

You’re mostly likely to have a hit single with the I–V–vi–IV progression as most of the number one singles of the last 60 years or something use it.

All you need to know if you want to make ppl is I-V-vi-IV and I-VI-IV-V (which is also known as the “Stand By Me” chords).

But there is something to be said about the lack of artist development. I still say the lack of vocal talent is the main culprit, but aside from that, how many of these new acts even do a run of club dates? I know rappers will do walk-throughs and stuff like that, but once upon a time pop singers would do a string of club dates when working new material. There was even a whole MTV special on Britney Spears where she did like four club dates in one night, and this was post-Hit Me Baby One More Time, post-Oops I Did It Again, danced around the VMAs with a snake Britney.

I stopped listening to pop music maybe ten/ fifteen years ago. Listening to the hot 100 now, and some of the songs are pretty good and some of them are bad. There's more shitty country music than there used to be. Bad Bunny's music is bad, but this Steve Lacy guy's music is pretty good. This Omar Apollo guy is also singing a song where the love interest is a guy who is with a woman, so that's interesting. I don't know. I would say it's probably better than it was ten years ago.

I guess I’m officially too old to know pop music. I never thought it would happen.

I looked at the Billboard charts only recognized a few songs

Today's at the forgetting artists are manufactured. No sense of authenticity. Everything is a gimmick and too much fucking rap

The music industry is becoming decentralized. That's not a problem for anyone but the industry. Times change.

Music wasn't meant to create superstars. That was an industrialized outcome to benefit investors.

I can't stand Bad bunny's music, he sounds like a idiot. Olivia Rodrigo is just teen pop.

R7 Like for real

= too much hype + not enough talent

People keep saying that its good that now the music corporations dont get to make big profits anymore but that isnt exactly true. When there was profit to be made, that would incentivise the corps to back up and promote all kinds of musicians. Some of them terrible and formulaic but some of them incredibly unique and talented....if they had an inkling you would sell well, even to a more niche audience, they would do everything in their power to make sure you would, and if you were adamant enough about it, you could keep your creative integrity intact and not sell out.

Also the lack of financial incentive as well as fame being 1000 harder to achieve does affect musician's ambition which before would actually push them into achieving greater things

Now no one is backing up anyone which is ok if you're a music lover who is ok in doing some deep dives on spotify or elsewhere but for the average casual music listener who will only listen to Top 40, it limits what they hear.

It's not the industrialists fault, capitalism is perpetually in motion and serves no master but the capitalist are the only ones really invested and will be fine. This whole thing is a non-story

Pop culture today has reached its ultimate state. It was always been designed to be disposable, except now we consume it and dispose of it within 5 minutes because the newer better thing has already been released.

R9 “The era of mega superstars like Madonna or Michael was far far over”

Words of God 👏👏👏

Too much sampling in songs nowadays.

Bring back rock.

Skid Row, Ozzy, and Red Hot Chilli Pepper have released excellent albums this year.

None of them are pop artists, R45.

Top 40 listening kids today must be tone deaf after growing up on a diet of shit. Can they recognize good music, or do they make fun of it for being old? I recognize there is some good new stuff that breaks through to the masses, but it’s shit for the most part.

Unpopular opinion: I don't give a fuck if some artist can dance. It contributes nothing to the music itself and it's often use to distract from the weak material they are singing. Give me manufactured pop stars like the Motown artists any day.

[quote] Now producers want everything formed and ready to go without doing any work themselves. That is why Beyonce, Rhianna and Taylor are still the only big acts, no guess work or real work required.

Great point--that's risk aversion in a nutshell. You see the same kind of thing with movies too. Hollywood studios want films that will make a profit in China. And that's all they seem to give a shit about. Hence all those superhero movies. Say what you will about Madonna but she definitely had a trajectory where she started off as "Minnie Mouse on helium" to the singer of Frozen, The Power of Goodbye, etc. I rarely feel like pop stars today have anything like that. That makes their music so boring to me. What kind of story are they telling? Nothing.

R47 haven't reports come out that like 80% of music played on spotify is 80 years old? I have a 12 year old niece and 75%of the music she listens to predates the 2000...she is fan of a couple of current bands but is just as crazy for , if not more, for Queen and Prince. I dont think all young people are like this but for sure younger people are much more ok with listening to "old music" than their previous generations were. The thing about having a colossal music collection at you're disposal is that you are going to listen to songs and bands you like, no matter when they recorded their music. That, imo, has been the only upside of music streaming platforms like Spotify.

R50 here, I meant more tan 20 years old, not 80 lol

R50, not R47 here but I would think that the Gen Z people listening to older music form a not-so-silent minority. They are probably less visible than all the Gen Z people who listen to rap. Legacy artists are absolutely a powerhouse on youtube and spotify. Queen, The Beatles and Michael Jackson are the three most streamed legacy artists. They have huge numbers. They are in the top 50 most streamed acts on Spotify which is incredible considering they are not "modern" at all. Guns N' Roses, AC/DC, Metallica, Nirvana, Elton John, all do great numbers as well.

Teens getting into 80 year old music is pretty funny to think about. Imagine them streaming Al Jolson, Fanny Brice and Rudy Vallee in their rooms. Great jazz and blues though.

Thinking back to my youth there were kids who were big fans of the Beatles, The Beach Boys and The Doors, which all pre-dated their births. You see kids today walking around with Nirvana and Pink Floyd t-shirts. My own niece listens to a lot of older stuff, but her dad is a big music buff so she’s been exposed to a lot.

Internet killed the Radio Star.

[quote] haven't reports come out that like 80% of music played on spotify is 80 years old?

Most streamed artists in Spotify history (lead-credits):

1. Drake: 45.6B

2. Ed Sheeran: 34.7B

3. Bad Bunny: 33.4B

4. The Weeknd: 30.4B

5. Ariana Grande: 30.0B

6. Justin Bieber: 29.1B

7. Eminem: 27.5B

Eminem? Wtf.

I guess incel rap transgresses generations

R55 that doesn't contradict what I said, or the study, which I will link below (turns out its 70% , not 80%, but still)

There are a vast vast array of musicians on Spotify...the study is saying that as much as a handfull of current artists may be top sellers, they are a smaller percentage of overall streams when comparing them to all the artists 20 + years old

Music is terrible these days. Some years I was talked into driving my teenaged nephew and some of his friends somewhere. They were talking while I kind of ignored them and one started talking about this great band they'd just discovered. It was Led Zeppelin.

To add to R57 , from the article:

"The 200 most popular new tracks now regularly account for less than 5 percent of total streams."

Dreadful R55.

Here are the current most streamed acts. Looking through the top 200, legacy acts place as follows:

#31 Queen #41 The Beatles #63 Red Hot Chilli Peppers (tjhey beat Michael Jackson!!) #69 Michael Jackson #85 Metallica #94 Elton John #124 Green Day #125 Nirvana #129 Bob Marley #141 Fleetwood Mac #144 Pink Floyd #145 Rolling Stones #159 2Pac #168 Elvis #171 David Bowie #177 Mariah Carey #182 The Foo Fighters #187 U2 #190 Led Zeppelin

I almost never listen to radio but I had a rental last month and turned on the top preset station and didn't recognize anything and it all sounded like pure shit and each song exactly like the last. I turned it off and enjoyed the silence.

Rich people problems

R62 Listen to this.

I missed AC/DC at number 96

I am surprised Madonna doesn't make it in the top two hundred. She's back at 240, a little more popular than Creedence Clearwater Revival. I am hard pressed to think Drake, Bad Bunny, or Ed Sheeran's music will stand the test of time thirty years from now.

R66, most pop music doesn't seem to resonate with the public. Of the 50 most popular songs of the 20th century on Spotify, only like 10 are not rock songs. Mariah makes the list strictly because of all her Christmas material, otherwise she'd be at the same level as Madonna or lower.

I would like to listen to new music, but finding something "good" has become nearly impossible. What exactly is popular these days? The Hot 100 is no longer a good barometer of a song's success thanks to insane fan groups with too much time on their hands manipulating an artist's popularity (looking at you, BTS).

As the article noted, there's a glut of music being released. Making recording equipment cheaper and easier to use has led to way too many songs released.

But this is the problem the entertainment industry's shift to streaming has caused for any medium (film, TV, music): People burn through content so quickly, nothing seems to matter anymore.

R68, I've given up on new music. As someone in their mid 30s, what's the point? It doesn't speak to me and I don't give a shit about it. Just explore older music and be happy.

You shittards act like you don’t know how to listen to music. Fucking ridiculous. Most of you must be told what to like because you don’t even know!

I remember reading an article, maybe five years ago or so, that argued Gaga was the last huge global superstar. The newer crop of stars were just flashes in the pan to one degree or another. That streaming couldn't support the Gagas, Rihanna, Madonnas of the pop world.

Seems the article was spot on.

If we are being honest, Gaga's success was pretty meteoric. As in, she flew high and crashed hard. And within the span of like three years. After Born this Way, she didn't really have another huge single until A Star is Born. Her success seems flukish

I'm a little older than you R69 and I used to have the same attitude because I LOATHE what pop music and Top 40 radio has become. But a few years ago, I decided to have more of an open mind about some of these contemporary artists and their music (just like older generations had to have an open mind about our shit). I have to say, some of the material is really not bad at all. I still prefer the music and the artists of my youth, but there is still some talent out there amongst the crud.

Music needs an entire overhaul, from the charts to radio and even the fucking shammys!!

R73, I do like some of it actually. I think Tame Impala is a good band and I like some of Foster the People's stuff. And that band Maneskin is pretty cool too. But for the most part, I actually listen to stuff that was before my time. I listen to blues, jazz, soul, R&B, rock, hard rock, alternative rock. Most of that stuff (For me) is from the 50s through the 90s.

Great song, r6 - thanks for the rec!

It's crazy how much the movie Bohemian Rhapsody did for Queen's music. They've always been popular, but not like it is now. That movie catapulted them ahead of The Beatles and Michael Jackson, which is an enormous leap in popularity.

R76 Are you referring to R6 or R64?

I quit reading/caring about Billboard charts long ago because their rules are stupid. Whenever the big acts like Ariana Grande and Drake release an album, every single song on the album appears on the chart. At Christmas, the top 10 is nothing but Christmas songs. All it does is promote incumbency of the old artists. The only "artists" to break through now and days are boring, weird, or problematic.

The music industry is broken and they have themselves to blame. Good riddance!

I guess you're right R77. I always think of Wayne's World as the film that immortalized Queen's music, particularly Bohemian Rhapsody the song. The success of the recent biopic certainly helps matters. Brian May and Roger Taylor have done a really great job in keeping their music and legacy relevant to younger generations.

Even though Elton's biopic wasn't nearly as successful as Bohemian Rhapsody, it did similar things for him too. Prior to the movie, he was behind Madonna on Spotify. Now, he's in the top 100 most streamed artists. It's obvious Madonna wants her biopic to do the same thing for her; it's not happening.

R72, the article wasn't about Gaga's career up and downs or even if she deserved her status as Biggest Pop Star in the Land. It was more a piece illustrating that she was the last of what seems to be now a dying breed. They could have picked Rihanna, or even Katy Perry, but both came to fame before Gaga.

I wish I could find the article. IIRC it predicted much of what ended up happening.

The US POP music industry is populated with circumcised schizos, the future is bleak to me. Unlike the British one, though, a lot of intact-donged, creative people there.

Is the current British pop scene better? I remember people were hailing Sam Smith as amazing and I still don't understand his popularity. He sings lower tier Luther Vandross songs.

R85 Their top male pop star is the untalented Harry Styles and “female” is the talent free Dua Lipa. What do you think?

[quote] Pop Music Struggling to Create New Stars

In the 21st century all the people they try to make into stars are either interchangeable Hollywood Boulevard street whores or ghetto thugs who get gunned down

The record industry still needs new, big stars who can tour and always will need that. That is how they are making money now off the back of 360 deals where they take a substantial cut of all revenues the artist accrues. It used to be that the record label may not get a big cut of touring revenue but they make sure they do now for new artists. Without the 'whales' to subsidise the rest of the roster the big labels cannot survive.

R88 Most stars don’t want to tour anymore.

There is too much of everything now. It's simply that no one is hungry for new music anymore. In the 90s, listening to a handful of clips over and over gave us a sense of completion but also of belonging. Everyone heard these songs, everyone the same songs, plus their niche interest. Music today is much more segmented. It's not so much unifying as an expression of the tribe you belong to. TikTok "songs" are like inside jokes. It's not about the music.

R86, I didn't think it was either, I was responding to R84's message.