American Horror Story: New York City

It's certain to carry on the tradition of testing the loyalty of its viewers with unwatchably poor writing and acting.

I love it. I believe it’s supposed to take place in the late 70’s/early 80’s. I’m sure it’ll have a lot in common spiritually with Cruising, Looking for Mr Goodbar, etc.

NYC is a pretty scary place

It would be great if they filmed at least some scenes on location.

Not sure about this, it sounds a bit too mundane to me - I prefer the supernatural elements of AHS.

With Sandra Bernhard, Russell Tovey, Patti…

R2 will it feature Madonna? She's a modern day American Horror Story

Spoiler alert: The primary horror will be young Rudy Giuliani in drag going down on young 'John Barron.'

Murphy and his enormous appetite to tell all stories through pastiche. He can fuck off.

You can see the horror story every day on the local news.

Oh boy, another tv show set in NYC! How daring. How original.

If there were ever a true American Horror Story, it would undoubtedly be New York City.

In fact, it's still a horror story.

They will probably tie in Son of Sam into the show.

The plot twist is that it'll pivot to Brooklyn for most of the series to chronicle the basement horror that is Seacow running the DL. Gotta luv that NativeNYer!

American Horror Story: New York produces Donald Trump.

Do you have to have Hulu? We have sling.

American Horror Story: New York City

Charity fundraiser attended by Judith Giuliani (née Nathan) and Rudy Giuliani.

American Horror Story: Filmed in Toronto

American Horror Story: Hillary’s Emails

Will likely have an AIDS theme. An unknown threat growing among the unsuspecting.

I suspect so. I know an actor on the show and what little I know of the character would suggest that AIDS would be one layer of the story.

[quote] I suspect so. I know an actor on the show and what little I know of the character would suggest that AIDS would be one layer of the story.

No one wants to watch that.

It doesn't even fit into the horror genre.

We want a true horror story. Scary stuff.

Not lame political speech bullshit.

Once again, I predict this season will be a flop.

Viewers will TUNE OUT in droves.

The writers for this show are so fucking out of touch.

They just don't understand what viewers want to watch.

It's not just NYC. They were recently filming on Fire Island. A friend snapped a pic of Isaac Powell, Charlie Carver, and a bunch of crew members on the pier.

This show is about 10 years past its expiration date.

Why doesn't FX just put it out of its misery already?

Nobody is forcing you to watch r23

I got a pretty good idea of what’s to come… I lived in NYC for two decades, and I could easily write what I call “Cindy’s dozen”, compelling, funny and “Only in NYC” urban legends all the natives will instantly recognize gravitate to, talk about, and be completely familiar with if you’ve lived in NYC.

1. Getting pushed off a subway platform 2. Eating a questionable dish that’s not what it’s supposed to be 3. Lesson about a crazed Jewish person but with a golden heart 4. Tiny apartment with a horrible secret 5. Meet a wealthy person with dubious outcome 6. The creepy Doorman 7. Three people trapped in an elevator 8. Lonely basement Laundromat 9. Alligator in the sewer

“Only in New York, kiddos!”

My NYC story

I lived in a run down SRO in Hells Kitchen in the aughts, for $600 a month it was tiny but such a great deal. A woman on my floor died in her room and they didn’t find her for several weeks- until there was a horrible stench.

Her body fluids had leaked right through the floor. They gut renovated her room and had to tear everything out, she’d lived there for decades- I found out when I tried to sign up for cable and they had to send someone out to confirm the unit actually existed because there had NEVER been an account .

They asked me if I wanted the brand new room for same rent so they could renovate mine and I said SURE!

That bitch HAUNTED the room! She’d push things off the counters and shelves in the middle of the night, flicker the brand new electrical fixtures, and was trying to scare me. This went on for a few months until I rounded a bunch of friends together, we held hands and told her to MOVE ON!

It worked and I believe in ghosts now.

American Horror Story, New York: Murphy Takes Manhattan

R21 I was there at the time. If indeed the show is set late 70s/early 80s, we didn’t know what was happening to us. The first reports of illnesses seeming to cluster among gay men came out in ‘81. It took awhile for it to turn political. It can be horrifying looking back, especially watching classic’70s porn, or just seeing old films and photos of carefree gay men who have no idea of the tragic fate that awaits.

The first little things coming out of this make it sound right up my alley - a horror story set in New York around the late 70s/early 80s? Love the aesthetic of that time and there is a lot of interesting history to mine there.

But then I remember it is Ryan Murphy, and I already feel totally disappointed. I'd love to see something set at this time and place that wasn't by him.

We learned that the season is expected to be set in New York City in the 1970s but possibly time jumping into the late-1980s or later, with the focus being on NYC's LGBTQ community as it deals with a serial killer.

AHS producer John Landgraf: "What I can tell you is that the concept for Season 11 is one story. It actually takes place in different timelines, but it's one subject, one story, with a beginning, middle, and an end, like many of the prior stories."

It'll be awful as always. The first episode will probably feel very engaging and promising, the second will be much poorer but not abysmal and the rest will be unwatchably bad. Reviewers will see the first two eps and proclaim it to be brilliant campy horror satire. It happens every season.

What I really want to know is:

—Does Murphy try really hard to make good work, or does he just get funded and then not care at all? That's how his shows feel.

—Does he believe his series are well made despite their horrible writing?

—The Emmys he got for the last season of POSE clearly were political; it was a terribly written and acted ending to a show that was among his best during its first two seasons. Does he know he got Emmys because of topics or does he think the awards were earned by great writing?

—Do viewers have any discernment today? Really bad entertainment seems so popular, whereas during the glory days of Miramax, for example, a lot of great entertainment was out there and small flaws meant poor reviews because standards were so high. Now Netflix and Hulu and Amazon and Apple just churn shit out without even bothering to advertise it and people eat up whatever is out there. American Horror Story is unwatchably bad but it has so many loyal fans who don't care. 90 percent of movies are the same formulaic Marvel and DC superhero shit and it seems like the whole world has been lobotomized into thinking that that is all we need for entertainment and that every new Avengers or Thor movie is the next great masterpiece.

R31 MAJOR SPOILER ALERT.

The Big Bad guy of the series is AIDS personified. AIDS is an undefeatable foe. Except in the end, AIDS is run over by a Range Rover driven by a time traveler and AIDS is subverted. Don't question the logic. It makes total sense. Stu is the stew...HAHAHHAA

Ryan Murphy is reductive.

R32, I was going to start quoting parts of your post and say how I agree with this or that, but quite frankly, your post is perfect in total and I agree with it all. Very well put and those are the questions I have myself.

I seem to recall years ago reading an interview with one of the actors from Popular who said that Murphy very quickly got bored of that show and wouldn't turn up except for scenes involving Mary Cherry.

[quote]Oh boy, another tv show set in NYC! How daring. How original.

Funnily enough, I read that in Sandra Bernhard's voice, heh!

Teaser:

with me, Russell Tovey!

When it went exclusively on HULU, I was disappointed but looks like it is back on FX. YAY!!!!

Paul Bateson will probably make an appearance. He was in The Exorcist as an x-ray tech who was mostly likely responsible for 6 murders of gay men around 1977 but I believe was only sentenced for one. He was out in 2012 and dropped off the grid which is pretty unsettling.

Oh dear. Most* likely.

American Horror Story: Sandra Bernhard

I hope they're not bringing back the black latex fetish suit killer.

What a big fucking yawn.

I'm surprisingly excited for this.

Oh god, more BDSM “lewks”. How tiresome. How can anything be that sinister when there are one thousand smartphones around at all times.

It’ll never match the vibe and energy of Cruising.

R45, I saw Cruising (a really crisp HD version of it) only a few months back and really enjoyed it. Also couldn't stop thinking about it for ages afterwards. I think you're right that this AHS will have nothing on it.

[quote] The Emmys he got for the last season of POSE clearly were political; it was a terribly written and acted ending to a show that was among his best during its first two seasons

This is a Ryan Murphy Thing that happens with literally EVERY one of his projects, going back to Popular.

They come out of the gate in great shape, with clear characters and the signature Murphy sarcasm/snark. They will make sense, play well, be impressive for that first season, maybe two.

Then either the storyline will start jumping the track, or Murphy will pay attention to visuals or some sort of special effect at the expense of story or consistency. Or he'll just go up his own ass creatively. And the show/shows jump the track. See: Popular, Glee and pretty much every fucking show he ever made.

No one watches this crap anymore.

R47 has it so right. I'm surprised it's not commented on more in reviews of his work. In fact, I would say you were almost giving him too much credit - he often has trouble even landing ONE season of a show, but certainly opens them well a lot of the time.

r39...American Horror Story NEVER went exclusively to HULU....that was American Horror STORIES, the spin off of 1 hour contained episodes

R50, nice to know - thanks...

Buried in r31's article: There's going to be a Mr. Robot Holiday Special?

R40 They did a Bateson episode on Mindhunter.

It sounds like they’re knocking out two episodes a week. So this’ll be over before Christmas.

[quote]They did a Bateson episode on Mindhunter.

God, that show was amazing. Wish they'd bring back a third season of that instead of yet another AHS that will no doubt disappoint.

Premieres tonight!!

r21 Is that you Stephen King?

Did Patti demand to sing?

It’s about the West Village in some way. They are renting prime real estate here including a storefront at Bleecker and Christopher St. I’m sure it will be a disappointing miss of an opportunity - again,

^The only clips I've seen so far are behind the scenes shots of characters (including one played by Sandra Bernhard) buying vegetables and going to see a psychic.

Not really all that engaging so far. It definitely doesn’t feel like AHS. I’ll watch because it’s only 8 episodes, and I think they’re doubling them up, so it should be over in 4 weeks.

I'm pleasantly surprised.

This was a good start to the season, and I was genuinely scared at some parts.

The creepy killer was the right choice to scare people. He's so weird.

Charlie Carver is a revelation. I always assumed he was just a vapid airhead, but not only is he a decent actor, but he co-wrote one of these episodes, and it was actually quite good.

This is like an extravaganza of gay actors, so I give kudos to Ryan Murphy for assembling this cast. Good for him!

I think the lead actor is fantastic, and Russell Tovey is a hot daddy. They actually make quite a nice couple, even considering the age difference.

I love the plethora of hot guys this season. Especially the one locked up in the cage by Zach Quinto. Who is that cute actor? Is he new to AHS? Love him.

So far, both episodes have me hooked. Particularly because there's nothing too over-the-top. The writers are taking the show seriously, which is a very good thing.

I hope this continues.

Patty Lupone's music set a good tone at the bath house, but she's hard to look at and she really lacks charisma.

I don't know who could pull off that role, but Patty was definitely the wrong choice.

Issac Powell who plays the bathhouse slut photographer is fucking HOT!

I don’t get the love for Russell Tovey. He’s not all that and those ears are distracting.

Russell Tovey is a masculine top with (from what I could see in his sweat pants) a big dick!

He's every bottom's dream.

[quote] Isaac Powell was raised in Greensboro, North Carolina, the youngest of three children born to Terry and Will Powell, a three-time world CrossFit champion. His father is Mixed Native American and African-American; his mother is Caucasian

I had no idea.

Facially, he looks a lot like Cameron Boyce, who had the same racial background.

[quote] I think the lead actor is fantastic, and Russell Tovey is a hot daddy.

Russell Tovey is a daddy, now? Oy, seems just like yesterday he was gay-for-pay.

Zachary Quinto has such range from bitchy queen to full on cunt.

Who's the silver daddy who plays Russell's boyfriend?

r69, that's Joe Mantello from previous Murphy projects like Hollywood, The Watcher and the Normal Heart.

Love this season so far. It's so unapologetically gay.

Yes, R71!

It's giving "Interview With the Vampire" a real run for its money.

The gays are here!!

Ok, you boys are cautiously making me interested to watch this now, and I didn't think that would happen... fingers crossed it keeps it up and doesn't go down the usual Ryan Murphy road.

It has a very different vibe from previous seasons R73.

Heavily gay-centric, very raunchy, not shy on the gay intimacy, highlights gay cruising culture, and the gay villain is giving Buffalo Bill vibes from Silence of the Lambs.

It has an early 80's theme and tells a dual story of a gay serial killer who kills other gays, as well as the emergence of HIV/AIDS.

Also, the gay eye-candy is fantastic.

It also brings up topics like gay male misogyny against lesbians (but not too preachy), as well as closeted gay men in straight male dominated fields like the police force and airline pilots.

I think this season (so far) is striking a nice balance between hot guys, political awareness, and an actual scary story.

I'm really liking it at this point.

Billie Lourd, though, has been ooph.

Yes, R75.

She's the one topic I avoided, because I didn't want to be down on the season right off the bat.

But Billie really is the weak link. She's just not a good actress.

Oh, and what's the deal with the HUGE MUSCULAR guy in the leather gear?

We already know who the person is, who's drugging and torturing the gay community.

But are there two killers? And which one is it?

Could the killer be Zach Quinto?

I think he uses the big leather guy to capture hot guys so he can lock them up in his dungeon, like he did with that pretty young twink.

But why was the leather guy going after Billie Lourde?

Also, he seems to be on Zach Quinto's payroll.

So there seems to be TWO bad guys in this tale, and we're trying to find out who's the killer.

Patti LuPone is the killer!

Partner and I enjoyed ep one.

If I'm not mistaken, Zach Quinto played a serial killer in Asylum, also.

And he also had a torture basement in that season, where he killed people.

Now he has the same thing in this season!

Just a little "easter egg" that I noticed.

[quote] Patti LuPone is the killer!

STOP! STOP! STOP!

R80 Zach Quinto always plays the pervy serial killer who gets off on torturing people. He has no range. The killer will obviously be him, because it always is.

Between this and his excellent episode on The Watcher, Joe Mantello is having such a great year.

And I know you queens are blinded by his butch posturing, but Russell Tovey’s fake American accent is atrocious. He’s slipping on every other word.

[quote]Oh, and what's the deal with the HUGE MUSCULAR guy in the leather gear?

He represents the something coming.

[quote]It also brings up topics like gay male misogyny against lesbians

It wasn't misogyny. It was explicitly disinterest.

I heard one episode is about a serial killer who carries his dismembered victims inside a big samsonite suitcase.

[quote] Charlie Carver is a revelation. I always assumed he was just a vapid airhead, but not only is he a decent actor, but he co-wrote one of these episodes, and it was actually quite good.

He’s smart enough to start moving towards screenwriting, since even he knows he’s a mediocre actor.

My serial-killer friend is going on a vacation to NYC.

For a week. We live in Ohio and he hasn't traveled much. The thing is, he can't afford a hotel room and he doesn't know anyone in the city, so he plans to "get laid every night" and just spend the night wherever his soon-to-be victims take him.

Yes this means he will be rolling a small suitcase filled with body parts behind him the entire trip.

Is this practical? (Bear in mind he isn't very good-looking - pasty and overweight with a weird face). Do serial killers on vacation actually do this in NYC? I've never been (and neither has he) but he insists it's a common, budget-conscious way to travel. I think he's a murderous whore.

The guy who had to fuck the stool was very good looking. Kinda weird his chest was hairy but his abs weren't.

Yeah, masked Daddy represents the darkness that is coming (AIDS, Angel of Death), the serial killer is "just" a red herring as more people will die from AIDS than by his hands.

[quote] The guy who had to fuck the stool was very good looking.

Fuck. Now I wanna see hot guys get fucked by stools. The guy kept in a cave by Quinto's character is hot, too.

I would probably normally just read everyone's comments and make fun of what it sounded like, but I think I may actually watch this one along with you all. Even if it's shit, it's in a setting, a time and a place and a subject that I find interesting. That's how I got through 1984, which really was quite odd.

I agree, r77. There are two killers. Working in tandem perhaps but with different MO’s. No pun intended. Quinto’s character brings up memories of Andrew Crispo. He’s obviously Big Daddy. His kills take place in his dungeon. He likes privacy and likes to take his time. But…the one who likes the thrill of killing where there is a more likely chance of getting caught is the weirdo in the bar who roofies his victims. Someone who can pass for straight and lived on the down low? Office Krupke we’re down on our knees…The big ugly leather dude is there to see that they DON’T get caught. Maybe he chased the Billie Lourde character because she was interrupting the disposal of BD’s latest victim?. Yes, r91. It’s like taking a trip back in time. The hedonistic anything goes days before AIDS.

Has the unattractive Zachary Quinto ever play a pleasant character in a Ryan Murphy project? Tiresome.

[quote]Zach Quinto always plays the pervy serial killer who gets off on torturing people. He has no range.

Yes, who can forget his turn as futuristic serial killer Spock?

I love hearing Patti sing songs in the background. I love to hear her without seeing her mouth wobble and flutter all over the screen.

Issac Cole Powells father....

Damn, R96!

I wonder what he thinks about his gay son?

Is Joe Mantello gay in real life?

I'm confused by Russell Tovey and his boyfriend Steve Brockman.

Which one is the bottom???

They both look super butch.

Tovey must be the bottom.

It can't be Brockman.

Oh my, R100… I think I just got the vapours…

I never realized that Russell Tovey had such a hot boyfriend.

Rugby kit? Grrrrrrrr...

What about this one, R101?

[quote]I think he uses the big leather guy to capture hot guys so he can lock them up in his dungeon, like he did with that pretty young twink.

[quote] But why was the leather guy going after Billie Lourde?

The leather guy probably has AIDS and has been keeping tabs on the people who have going to Billie's character because of the rashes, KS lesions, and the other illnesses. I think at some point he'll approach Billie's character for help and knowing Murphy/AHS's history of crappy writing they will give him a tragic backstory and Billie's doctor character will take pity on him and try to treat him. Then Zachary Quinto's psycho character offs the leather guy and/or Billie.

Stop, R104, or I’ll need my fainting couch…

I also wonder if the writers will do some storyline of Leslie Grossman's character having AIDS as well. I have the feeling that she won't really be a villain this season.

It's the first time I've seen Grossman not be campy, but play it straight. I found that really interesting and another thing I liked about this.

I didn't say before, but I loved the lesbians. When they finally got given a job and how they switched from their tough guy attitude to pure happiness was so sweet. I want to see more of them. It seems like one of them has been infected (being at the surgery with the killer), so I am sure we will be getting more there.

Is Big Daddy really corporeal? People can see him, but then he vanishes as if he weren’t really there. A decapitator (perhaps). I’m getting he’s the personification of AIDS. He’s wherever it is. He basically lives at Quinto’s apartment but Quinto gave him no acknowledgement when he entered.

[quote] Is Big Daddy really corporeal? People can see him, but then he vanishes as if he weren’t really there. A decapitator (perhaps). I’m getting he’s the personification of AIDS. He’s wherever it is. He basically lives at Quinto’s apartment but Quinto gave him no acknowledgement when he entered.

Very interesting thought.

I never considered it, but you may be right.

The less is more approach really worked for me when Quinto flips a stool over and then hands the guy a jar of vaseline (or whatever it was). You don't need to see anything more graphic than that to make you wince.

[quote] It's the first time I've seen Grossman not be campy, but play it straight. I found that really interesting and another thing I liked about this.

I have enjoyed Grossman in campy roles. I really liked her as Kristen Bell's mom in The Good Place. I also liked that in the first two episode of this AHS season, she played the character straight. The main reason I wonder if her character has AIDS is because Grossman's character looked she was made up to look kind of ill. I think the cop character will turn out to be a bad character and Leslie's character has to team up with the journalist boyfriend to take him down.

Yeah, there were some hints with the box she found in her ex's room full of leather gear. But then I was wondering if that was too obvious? Maybe not for this kind of production. Interesting theory, I wonder if she'll turn up for help with a rash too? I do want to see her turn up more.

I do like her in campy roles too (I mean, Mary Cherry is wonderful). Until now though, for some reason I thought that was her only thing, so this is a pleasant surprise.

And incidentally, I should probably realise this show isn't going to be that subtle with things after the killing of the infected deer on Fire Island, which is a very obvious metaphor.

[quote] Yeah, there were some hints with the box she found in her ex's room full of leather gear. But then I was wondering if that was too obvious? Maybe not for this kind of production. Interesting theory, I wonder if she'll turn up for help with a rash too? I do want to see her turn up more.

That was me stumped is that her finding the leather gear would be to obvious of him being nefarious. In the scenes where she met up with Gino, he mentioned that she was making Patrick's life a living hell. I could see a twist where Leslie's character Barbara is trying to frame Patrick for something or she outs him to other NYPD cops.

[quote] after the killing of the infected deer on Fire Island

Did this really happen?

Good point, R115!

Thanks for the names, by the way. I realised I don't know ANY character's name in this, apart from Big Daddy. This happens to me a lot when watching shows, I just think of the characters by either their actor names or their character descriptions.

R115 here. I'm the same way, I had to look up the character names on Wikipedia. I might have missed, but was Billie Lourd's Hannah addressed as "Dr" in the episodes?

Young Joe Mantello.

R119 He looks better with white/grey hair.

Wait, that pic makes me realise I've seen him in stuff before, but have no idea in what, R119.

I thought she was R118, but you know, I can't actually remember if that was the case, or not.

I don't know if I would've met an anonymous person at night in Central Park in 1981 if I were a woman (I bet it was spooky enough as a gay man), that's what I was thinking during the scene where she meets up with Sandy.

r113...remember in the 1st episode when the cop asked the journalist about the handkerchiefs....when the journalist left to go to the bar, the cop was shown pulling a similar box from the closet with a false bottom...filled with the same things that were in the box the ex wife showed the journalist in episode 2.

Russell Tovey rubbing his boyfriend's feet...

There are times when Tovey looks like Ryan Serhant from Million Dollar Listing New York.

Like in this photo, for instance.

Im rewatching both episodes right now...Im starting to think Big Daddy/Quinto connection and the dungeon are red herrings. Im starting to think Tovey is the bad guy. I think the crazy guy with the glasses is a misdirection. He will probably get arrested at some point and they will declare everything safe only for it to get worse.

He's quite an unsettling guy, isn't he, R125? But yes, am definitely expecting some twists and turns from Murphy and co.

Just curious - how accurate was the bathhouse set to what those places were like? Because I am having some real "Damn, I missed out" feelings right about now.

[quote] I think the crazy guy with the glasses is a misdirection. He will probably get arrested at some point and they will declare everything safe only for it to get worse.

But the guy with the glasses actually is a bad guy.

He was the one who abducted the reporter guy, and stuck needles in his fingertips.

So it's not like he's exactly innocent either.

Will Lens Dunham return as Valerie Solaris in this season? Where is Marta Plipton?

[quote]He was the one who abducted the reporter guy, and stuck needles in his fingertips.

I'm usually pretty good, but I had to look away at that point.

Oh... oh, [italic]dear[/italic]!

[quote]RYAN MURPHY REALLY PUT PATTI LUPONE IN FULL BEAT SINGING MADONNA'S FEVER IN A BATHOUSE IN THE 80S IN THE AHS PREMIERE

r128...I know that. When I say a misdirection, it means we are going to led to believe hes the main bad guy, when he will in actuality be a secondary plot point. Hes probably the one who hung up all those hands at the end of episode 2. So far there has been no mention of bodies being found without hands.

What do we know about John Bubniak aka the guy who fucks the stool?

So it could be that creepy glasses guy is doing bad things at the behest of someone else, perhaps.

[quote]What do we know about John Bubniak aka the guy who fucks the stool?

What happened to him? Did we find out and I just lost track of the character? He went into the private rooms at the bathhouse and came face to face with Big Daddy, and that was it, unless I'm forgetting something?

Don’t the stool fuck the guy?

I appreciate the Leslie Grossman analysis on the thread. Her anti-characteristic subtlety looks great on her.

I still maintain that RM should bring Mary Cherry into the AHS universe. Hell, her career aptitude test in Popular returned serial killer. I would love, love, love to see a smart version of the character employed. Certainly, her Coco St. Pierre Vanderbilt in Apocalypse was close. I was sort of disappointed that character wasn’t outed as MC.

He needs Anjelica Huston!

What do we make of the beefy jock strap and cowboy hat wearing African American man who bitch slapped Carver?

R138: My thoughts are still with that image.

[quote]Will Lens Dunham return as Valerie Solaris in this season?

Wait, is this a thing that happened at some point earlier in the franchise?

AHS: Cult

Big Daddy = Patient Zero. Quinto makes an off-hand remark that the guy died a few months ago when the photographer asks about him (why did he know? Beats me. Could be some nefarious plot that Quinto's character released AIDS to the gay world).

The hidden box seems very Cruising where Al Pacino plays an underground cop who investigates several murders in the gay leather scene. The movie ends with Pacino's friendly gay neighbor being killed, and it's left open who murdered him, but there is some indication that Pacino's character could've done it, because he couldn't deal with his feelings for the guy and struggling with his own sexuality after the case. Did Tovey's character go undercover for a case and got his first taste for dick (after a long time)?

LOL, undercover cop (not underground).

[quote] What do we make of the beefy jock strap and cowboy hat wearing African American man who bitch slapped Carver?

He had a small package.

No bulge at all.

And I don't get what that was all about.

Why send in a naked man in a jock strap to slap a prisoner in the face?

It made no sense.

r138 and r144, it was a call back to an infamous scene from the equally infamous 1980 film CRUISING.

And to add to R145, this was apparently a tactic police really did use at the time. It allowed them to beat suspects up without getting in trouble for it, because if a suspect then went before a judge and said that suddenly during the interrogation a near naked cowboy in a jockstrap walked in and slapped him in the face, everyone would just think he is crazy.

Ta, R141, this show really likes putting real life figures in it like that, huh? I'm still laughing about the time Richard Ramirez killed Kajagoogoo.

Lee Aaron Rosen is in great shape. (Captain Ross) I haven't seen more of him on tv and movies because he only does theatre? Pity.

Too bad he's decapitated in his 2nd scene. 😱

Sandy's character seems to be a good 25 years younger than Sandy.

He should have shot this on film to get an authentic look, watching all these new directors make period pieces in HD is annoying.

I would love that, R149! Would look so good!

If one can pop any thousand of filters on a TikTok these days, surely a video can do the same to achieve similar visual experiences to film?

It may not be so easy or convincing. They are two very different ways to record images - digital versus emulsion.

There are "cheap & easy" tweaks to add grain or scratches but still, the video image is fundamentally different than the celluloid image.

R145 and r146, I appreciate the explanations. It has been too long since I watched Cruising.

Same here, R154. I appreciate the explanations.

I never actually saw the movie "Cruising," so R145/R146's explanation makes the Russell Tovey character's explanation make much more sense.

[quote] Just curious - how accurate was the bathhouse set to what those places were like? Because I am having some real "Damn, I missed out" feelings right about now.

Switch Patti for Bette and it is about right.

The set design so far has been super correct.

I watched it and I love how it's so unapologetically (sp?) gay. Ryan Murphy has always been kind of twisted and all about shock value. Even since his show early show Nip/Tuck he's been all about shock value. He's at the point now where he can pretty much do what he wants and he obviously wants to feature stories that include LGBTQ+ as much as he can. Like him or hate him he's definitely been a source of representation for us.

I remember that bar Ramrod and others down Christopher Street toward the piers. They scared me back in '81 when I was a twink. It felt evil just like in the show. One visit was enough. I remained in midtown where I belonged at the show bars.

In 1981 there was a vast range of nightlife for homos to enjoy beyond 70s holdover sleaze and piano bars.

R158 makes such a good point. I am a critic of a lot of Murphy's writing and plotting, however the fact that he puts so much representation first and foremost in his stuff, unapologetically, as said above, is really great. I mean, he's in a place where he doesn't even have to "throw a sop" to straight people in the way he portrays us (you know, the harmless, lovable, sexually neutered gay man). He just shows these characters as they are, without even feeling like a straight person's perspective, or worries about what straight people may think of us has been taken into account. This is actually pretty revolutionary for mainstream gay representation still.

[quote]Switch Patti for Bette and it is about right.

[quote]The set design so far has been super correct.

Wow, damn indeed! Those bathhouses look like they would've been so much fun. In my mind I imagined them really dark, where you couldn't see much, which kinda grossed me out to be honest. But that is very "roman baths" and looks like a great place to hang out, it's not even expected you have sex there if you're not feeling it. Just to have a space like that, male only*, some music, a bar, baths and cruising. It sounds amazing. It's also unsettling because you know that these places became vectors in a way, but a chance to have been at something like this before it all went to hell... wow.

*I love my women, 'specially my lesbians, but I just sometimes really love the idea of an all male environment like this.

If Tovey is the killer, then the abominable Murphy stole the plot right out of Cruising.

r162, will be interesting to see where it goes, because a lot has been almost directly lifted from Cruising just in the first two episodes. I get a kick out this as I've only recently seen (and enjoyed) Cruising, so this is fun to me, but I can understand others might find this irritating.

quote] I am a critic of a lot of Murphy's writing and plotting, however the fact that he puts so much representation first and foremost in his stuff, unapologetically, as said above, is really great. I mean, he's in a place where he doesn't even have to "throw a sop" to straight people in the way he portrays us (you know, the harmless, lovable, sexually neutered gay man). He just shows these characters as they are, without even feeling like a straight person's perspective, or worries about what straight people may think of us has been taken into account. This is actually pretty revolutionary for mainstream gay representation

Murphy has always highlighted gay people in a favorable way, straight people be damned.

I think people just always dismissed him, because it was trendy to trash Ryan Murphy.

But he has never strayed from his mission to put gay people front-and-center, give gay actors jobs, and tell our story.

He just never got proper credit for it.

It's why I've supported AHS through all 11 seasons, even though some seasons were absolutely dreadful.

I'm just thankful that they took this season seriously, and are so far telling a great story.

The movie certainly seems like 'Angels in America' meets 'Cruisin'.

The Klaus Nomi inspired performer is rather insulting to Nomi.

I came to talk about Nomi too. I'm watching a doc about him now. He was so talented. What do you take issue with R166? The song he sang? It's funny I was kind of hoping he would be mentioned and then when I saw that guy's hair at the doctor's I knew it had to be him. So who else will be on? Keith Haring, Basquiat (sp)? This is a great season so far.

Did Nomi ever have a song along the lines of "shitting in my sink"? I think those were the lyrics the character was singing here.

Yes! That was my issue too R168, shitting in my silk. It seemed pretty vulgar for him.

The faux Nomi in this is a joke. He's coarse looking, and untalented. His costume is a joke. Nomi was a perfectionist and not vulgar in the least. The writer and director know all this so I guess they are going for broad comedy.

The scene seemed a little bit like it was making fun of pretentious art type stuff, but as R170 is saying, my knowledge of Klaus Nomi is that he wasn't like that at all, but actually talented.

[quote]So who else will be on? Keith Haring, Basquiat (sp)? This is a great season so far.

I posited earlier, on this thread or the other one, that Madonna could appear, but looking into it, in 1981 she was with Camille Barbone and mostly modelling and playing in bands wasn't she? Although I guess they could have some club scenes with her dancing in them, as I'm sure she would've been doing that then. Had Madonna met Haring and Basquiat by then? My timeline on her New York years prior to getting her record deal is a bit sketchy.

We want Lens! We want Beanie!

Basquiat may already be present. Because Mapplethorpe is not from Haiti. This tan colored photo claimed to be from Hait. Basquiat was NYC born to Puerto Rican/Haitian parents. So its some sort of melange. The characters are pastiches. Wagstaff wasn't such an aggressive prick. That's Quinto's shtick coming out.

tan colored photographer.. Haiti. sorry I can't see very well tonight.

Yes R170, I thought that too, that he wasn't "polished" enough to be Nomi. But they did make him a really nice guy so there's that.

Good point, R174, that sounds definitely like a Basquiat reference there.

[quote] sorry I can't see very well tonight.

You ok, mate?

Ooh I wonder if Gia Carangi will be referenced too, and Joey Arias and Iggy Pop, there's so many cool characters that can be brought on.

Okay, enough about Klaus Nomi and Basquiat.

No one cares about them.

Let's talk about AHS!

That period in time is rich in fascinating people and history, I agree R179. I think that's part of why I'm keen on this particular series of AHS when I don't normally like the show.

Oh I wonder if the AIDS theme and the murders will be cross referenced. Maybe the pilot in episode one was a Gaetan Dugas reference. I'm so excited about this season but Murphy has done that to me before and then the show goes to shit by episode 8.

[quote]I'm so excited about this season but Murphy has done that to me before and then the show goes to shit by episode 8.

Feel exactly the same as you. But one of the joys even so is going to be watching this "in time" with you all here. So I'll look forward to that, even if it turns to shit.

Well they could throw Joey a bone and hire him. He's still kicking. a

There were real life murders happening in the gay community around that time or a few years earlier, that's right isn't it? I'm sure when I was reading up on [italic]Cruising[/italic] after watching it that there were at least three different suspected serial killers of gay men around that time, and a lot of unsolved cases.

R185 Yes, the radiographer in the movie The Exorcist turned out to be a serial killer of gay men.

^I remember they spoke to him in Mindhunter.

It's kinda terrifying isn't it? When you're so low on the totem pole (like gays around this time), anything can happen to you because so much of society just doesn't care. It works as a theme for this series of AHS because that "society doesn't care" feeling happened both with the real murders and the HIV/AIDS crisis.

This is an excerpt from the Gay NYC serial killer book that came out last year called Last Call, which despite happening in the 90s they are making allusion to in this show. This section dealt with the rise of the New York City Gay and Lesbian Anti-violence Project and the earlier organizations it emerged from as Gays and Lesbians worked to get police to acknowledge and respond to crimes and violence against our populations which they basically ignored and blamed the victims for own problems. Even referring to the precinct in the Village as Fort Bruce for decades.

Thanks for the link, R188!

You ladies fainting to Mr Tovey's real life bf do know he used to do porn?

Tovey should have some cosmetic work done on those ears as a kid or teen.

R190 That’s probably the reason they’re fainting over him.

Tovey’s a lucky guy. He has a professional at home.

Disagree, R191. As someone else pointed out on here recently, they are perfect for grabbing a hold of while a guy is knelt before you.

[quote] You ladies fainting to Mr Tovey's real life bf do know he used to do porn?

I certainly did not.

Link, please!!!!

[quote] Tovey should have some cosmetic work done on those ears as a kid or teen.

The boyfriend seems to like to play with them.

He also probably grabs Tovey's ears, while he's pounding him from behind.

PS... their little doggie cart is the cutest thing ever!!!

How cute is this??

Wow, nearly 200 posts and ZERO mention of Kal Penn in this series.

Damn.

That said, I think he's horrible as the Police Chief. I never realized he was such a bad actor.

I wonder if Kal's character will turn out to be gay.

I think that Leslie Grossman's character does have AIDS.

Not only does she look thin and sick, but when she met her ex in the cafe, she said that she has a "Summer cold." She also said to him "You and your secrets. You are unknowable." So I think she definitely has it.

In the scene, where Grossman's character meets up with her ex's boyfriend she doesn't look ill. I think her storyline will play out where her condition fluctuates from her being ill some days and ok other days. Eventually, she ends up quite ill in the hospital and Billie's character gets called in to assist with her case.

I could totally see Ryan Murphy using Amanda Blake or Alison Gertz as inspirations for Grossman's character.

Ahh yes, I noted the "summer cold" comment at the time and then forgot it.

Does anyone think that maybe the virus in the show won't be HIV but something made up that works more as a stand-in for HIV? It attacked the deer for a start, which is a difference, and while I know HIV can affect anyone, I did notice that one of the people in the doctor's surgery complaining about a rash was one of the lesbians, who are the least likely to catch it.

"Summer colds" can be transmitted to someone with a damaged immune system.

So it could go either way, from "You! You gave this (AIDS) to me!" to "Fuck, I'm responsible for weakened you getting sick? I'm so sorry!".

I predict the illness is a morph of HIV and Lyme. The real life theory is lyme spread from an isolated government research institute on an island, to Long Island, and the barrier island (Fire Island). Also through Connecticut?

And combine this with conspiracy theories that HIV spread from shoddy development and roll out of hepatitis vaccine.

These are what Sandra's character is going to be pursuing.

I believe everything in this series is slightly morphed. Fictional characters from movies and maybe novels, and real characters. Real and fictional events. Morphed.

What’s the tie in to other seasons going to be? Hopefully nothing from Coven.

[quote]These are what Sandra's character is going to be pursuing.

Yep. I was curious when she stated to Hannah that it was the government behind it. I was immediately put in mind of the conspiracy theories around the hepatitis vaccines.

Never heard the real life conspiracy around Lyme disease before, interesting! I don't think we have it in my country, at least it always makes me think of the US when I hear of it.

[quote]I believe everything in this series is slightly morphed. Fictional characters from movies and maybe novels, and real characters. Real and fictional events. Morphed.

Yep, this would make sense. It's why I'm going to enjoy watching along with you guys here. I don't have as many frames of reference as I think many of you do here, so I'm going to have fun hearing about the real life connections.

The woman that owns/manages the bdsm bar could’ve been convincingly played by Suzanne Barsch- the part definitely modeled after her, her first party 1981.

I’m wondering if they asked Bette Midler if she wanted to reprise her role singing in a bathouse- and it was too triggering and she said no.

Imagine if they had managed to get Bette (and Barry) to reprise that role, so to speak. That would've been something!

Patti LuPone is giving a VERY drole performance and I'm here for it.

Barry either looks younger than spring time or a subway creature come up through the airshaft. Would depend on lighting.

[quote] Does anyone think that maybe the virus in the show won't be HIV but something made up that works more as a stand-in for HIV? It attacked the deer for a start, which is a difference, and while I know HIV can affect anyone, I did notice that one of the people in the doctor's surgery complaining about a rash was one of the lesbians, who are the least likely to catch it.'

In the scene with the lesbian at the office, I thought the lesbian was a past drug user who shared needles and got it.

[quote]What’s the tie in to other seasons going to be? Hopefully nothing from Coven.

The evil Nazi doctor played by James Cromwell in Asylum was experimenting on people-I could see some reference to that with journalist guy finding out about psycho doctors experimenting on people in torturous ways or the doctor stumbles onto the case and tries to find if other former Nazis are in the US doing experimental things on marginalized groups. Maybe the creepy guy with glasses is related to Cromwell's character or inspired by him.

-There seems to be a supernatural angle with Big Daddy and some of the characters having the ability to see him. The doctor could be a relative of the psychic character Billie Dean from Murder House or Charlie Carver's character is a relative of Billie Dean.

-I have a love/hate view of Coven. I could see some stupid connection with the cop's ex-wife being a descendant of a Salem witch and trying to get revenge on him via spells. I know it's sound dumb, but I could see happening on this show. The character could be also be relative of Coco from Apocalypse.

It would be hard for Bette and Barry to reunite because they had a horrible falling out Barry doesn’t speak to her. She talked about it with Willie Geist during the Today show and the interview was fairly recent.

She is very upset by this and won’t discuss it further.

Better worked with Murphy so the idea was likely floated to her, but Patti probably did it for less money.

That interview.

Is Ryan Murphy a conspiracy theorist?

A lot of his storylines lately seem to be about conspiracy theories.

Last season it was Lyme Disease in Provincetown and then Eisenhower/JFK/Nixon in Area 51 shenanigans.

This season, it's about a government conspiracy to infect gay men with AIDS.

I never pegged him as a Conspiracy Theory nutjob, but his shows would make you think otherwise.

The ending scene of episode one, with Patty singing that sad song in the bath house, and the feeling of impending doom, really set a mood.

Anyone know what that song was? I liked it.

The "upside down stool" guy was in the bath house, and he saw the muscular leather guy with a terrified look on his face.

Whoever came up with the idea that the leather guy represents AIDS, is right.

Sully saw him in the woods, Stool Guy saw him in the bath house, Zach Quinto keeps him at his front door, and Adam (Charlie Carver) is seeing him everywhere.

I think this season is going to end in a sad way, with all of these young gay men dying by the hand of the "muscular leather man," a.k.a. AIDS.

The new season will feature Evan Peters as a new character getting gang-banged by all his previous characters.

[quote] The new season will feature Evan Peters as a new character getting gang-banged by all his previous characters.

I WISH!

Evan Peters was the best thing to come out of AHS.

I adore him.

Fuck the hate for the Coven seasons. With the exception of the first few episodes of the second Coven season, they are AHS at its best, especially the first season.

[quote] The movie certainly seems like 'Angels in America' meets 'Cruisin'.

I saw Tovey in "Angels in America" when he was playing Joe Pitt. Tovey was very good in the part, and at that time, his America accent was really good, too. In the play, the character Joe Pitt comes out to his wife which crashes her life and her mental health. She accuses him of not talking and lying about everything, which is kind of the character Tovey is now playing in AHS.

R216 "Caling you" by Peggy Cole. Here's a site that has all the songs, I love this and use it all the time for "Cold Case" where they play a ton of music from the time period.

Thanks, R221!

The song was very haunting to me, and I just loved how it played in the background while all the sad things were happening in the story.

At the end of the episode there was just a cut to black (after Stool Guy saw AIDS), and the black lasted for a good 5 seconds.

It was definitely a moment.

R141 Lens Dunham as Valerie Solanas looked like a younger version of Jean Stapleton.

I didn't watch last season? It had a Lyme disease plot? OK, then I take back my idea that this year's disease is a morph of HIV and Lyme.

I don't know if it was necessarily a "plot" in Season 10 R224, but they sure talked about it a lot.

People thought it might have something to do with the story, but I don't think it did.

Well the deer plot device on Fire Island, this season, is a very direct reference to LYME and not AIDS. Also Lyme makes people tired. But it doesn't give kaposi. In the second half of the 80s I was working for a very big cheese in the NY museum world and in fact both diseases were much feared. I mention this because this president told me to go research with the best experts in the city Lyme disease because one of his major donor prospects had a relative suffering from it and so little was known by practitioners in the city, let alone in the affluent leafy suburbs. (He would use the info I uncovered and my report as part of his cultivation to eventually shake out millions for the museum.) Now that it is coming back to me, I think it went first to CT, not Long Island. But this series is morphing things.

The word "morph" has now appeared 7 times in this thread.

Maybe we should make a list of all the references. Susanne Bartsch obviously and it was bugging me watching but it didn't come to me. DLer nailed it.

By the way, people ragged on Charlie Carver's looks but now that I have seen 2 episodes, I think he looks very charming in action. Not a cookie cutter face, of course. But quite appealing.

Is there an alternative universe where a face resembling a cookie cutter is a good thing?

A cookie cutter hot twink face. A hot clone. He's not conventionally attractive or a "9" or "10". Or even a "7" masquerading as a "9". I call those the cookie cutter faces - all alike.

Carver is cute.

Speaking of 80s, this series maybe needs a gay society florist, similar to Robert Isabell, and a Glorious Foods waitron. Also good would be a joli-laid club boy who claims to be a Gaultier model.

But I guess that's all a few years after 1981. Danceteria would be good. Or Mudd.

R222, here’s LuPone singing “Calling You”, 9 years ago with Seth Rudetsky on piano. Wonderful.

[quote]Maybe we should make a list of all the references.

Here's one:

Daniel Kanowicz = David Wojnarowicz.

When Morris is talking to Adam about the party, he mentions Daniel Kanowicz as one of the artists who’ll be there. We later see him wearing a cardboard mask and painting a slogan on the wall; a reference to Wojnarowicz’s [italic]Arthur Rimbaud in New York[/italic] series.

" It wasn't out of the ordinary for Jean-Michel Basquiat or Keith Haring to hop on stage while Klaus performed his selection of hits, most notably his anthem "The Nomi Song""

R219 For Myrtle and Marie alone, the Coven seasons rocked. Also, sexy neighbor boy was sexy.

Coven was worth the season, just to see Myrtle playing the Theremin.

The Myrtle Snow burning scene was iconic.

"Balenciagaaaaaaa!!!!"

That "Calling You" song is seriously good. I've never heard it before. I guess it's anachronistic in the context of this show, but works so well.

[quote]In the scene with the lesbian at the office, I thought the lesbian was a past drug user who shared needles and got it.

Good catch, I missed that!

I was thinking today too. It wasn't intended, I guess, but there is a kind of irony with Stool Guy. He is introduced in the bar, talking to Zachary Quinto and expressing reservations about modelling because he wants to be a serious actor and doesn't want that to fuck up his chances. Now in real life we're all discussing him as only Stool Guy, because what he ended up doing during the photoshoot really has drawn all the focus, if you get me.

Since the muscle leather guy keeps following the Charlie Carver character around, does that mean he's going to come down with AIDS too?

Especially since everywhere he turns, people keep telling him "It's coming for YOU."

[quote] Since the muscle leather guy keeps following the Charlie Carver character around, does that mean he's going to come down with AIDS too?

[quote] Especially since everywhere he turns, people keep telling him "It's coming for YOU."

From the other thread:

[quote] I think the big hooded guy is the personification of AIDS. Those who see him will be infected, those who don't won't.

[quote] I think it's the other way round. Quinto will most likely get it by being oblivious to, or ignoring, the threat, and the others "see", or acknowledge, the threat and escape as to avoid becoming HIV positive.

The photographer guy says that he senses something bad is coming. I think part of the "horror" of this season will come from whether the characters will heed the warnings or just keep being reckless and pay the price. Remember in It's A Sin when Ritchie (Olly Alexander) dismisses the early attempts of raising awareness of HIV as sex shaming? I imagine that will happen this season on AHS as well.

link to other thread, please.

A lot is already being made of Charlie Carver's character being monogamous, and not into the sex scene of the time. I thought maybe his story was going to be one of those "but I wasn't even promiscuous" ones. But as the poster above said, maybe he's more aware of what's happening and will avoid it because of that? It doesn't necessarily hold that seeing the AIDS man means you would get it, I guess - as another poster said, maybe Billie Lourd sees him as she is a doctor studying it, not because she will get it?

Uh-oh, I went online to see what other people thought of this (outside of Datalounge) and there is some unhappiness!

[quote]Ryan Murphy said, “I put the black queers on Pose. I beat the racism allegations so now I can go back to only casting the white gays I wanna fuck.” 😩 #AHSNYC #AHS

She's kinda wrong though, isn't she? Haitian Mapplethorpe, Charlie Carver's bail buddy, one of the lesbians, the police chief, other members of the police force - none of these were white.

It must be hard to go through life looking for pain all the time!

^Ahh, based on the name, I thought she was bigger than she was. Kind of an insignificant account, who appears to have a one note complaint about this show. Sorry, can be safely ignored, I think.

The one thing Ryan Murphy CANNOT be accused of, is racial bias.

He puts people of color, and especially GAY people of color, on television more than ANYONE else ever has.

That bitter fucking queen at R246 needs to fuck off and die.

The world is not 100% all black, all the time, which is what that fucking lowlife is demanding.

She can go fuck herself.

If he’d just put in Froy and Nico Greetham on his show he can have hot Latino boys of color that nobody knows are Latino.

Because the average American thinks Froylan Gutierrez III is what? Irish American? German American?

Speaking of the bail buddy, Morris, he looks similar to Willi Ninja of that time period and he included himself in the three artists.

The dates and locations don’t work out, though.

I loved that crazy woman on the train who shouted "something is coming!" I got chills, she was a fucking good actress.

I thought she was going to break out in song from West Side Story.

Ha! "It's only just out of reach...down the block, on the beach..." I liked her staring into space behind him. He looked genuinely scared. That was a good scene.

That queen in the poetry reading club scene (or whatever the hell that was) doing her schtick, was hilarious.

She was reciting some strange lines, and I put on the Closed Captioning so I could read what she was saying.

It was nonsensical and bizarre.

Thanks for sharing, R234.

Loved it.

R248, I had to laugh at the thread and how desperate people were to make an issue out of it. They realised pretty quickly that he actually is pretty damn good with representation so suddenly it became: "Dahmer doesn't count because he killed them (which he probably LOVED doing!)" and "Pose doesn't count because it was too good and therefore he can't have really been involved with it". There are some really odd people around, haha! Oh and then it was "he only cast POC as police! He must HATE queer POC!" which makes no sense to me, and is also a lie. These people are mad.

[quote]I loved that crazy woman on the train who shouted "something is coming!" I got chills, she was a fucking good actress.

That was a great scene! I was already on edge when the two men walked past Adam and Morris, and it seemed so threatening, for a moment I thought we were going to have a gay bashing scene, and Adam's and Morris' reaction was perfect - a slight straightening up, a nervous look, perfect for how gay men react when they feel they are in danger.

I want to see AHS: Subway next season, R257!

That would be terrifying.

AHS: Fiorruci's Window

[quote] If he’d just put in Froy and Nico Greetham on his show he can have hot Latino boys of color that nobody knows are Latino.

R249 I'm actually a bit surprised Froy hasn't gotten hired for a Ryan Murphy production yet, considering who/what Murphy likes to hire, especially for something like American Horror Story.

[quote] If he’d just put in Froy and Nico Greetham on his show he can have hot Latino boys of color that nobody knows are Latino.

Froy is NOT a "Latino boy of color."

Not to anyone with eyes.

R258 - there would be plenty of creepy stories you could do there, especially on the NY Subway! Shades of Midnight Meat Train, etc.

[quote] there would be plenty of creepy stories you could do there, especially on the NY Subway! Shades of Midnight Meat Train, etc.

And then there's the sex angle...

Mmmm.....

Oof! He's very nice, R263!

Speaking of sex, as someone who's only sorta-familiar with the AHS franchise, I was surprised how sexuality has been portrayed in this season. I didn't watch Hotel, but I did watch Trixie Mattel's recaps of it, and I think I just assumed that all AHS seasons were going to be gratuitous in sexuality and quite explicit and violent. But 1984 wasn't particularly and so far NYC isn't either. But I like the way it's portrayed here. Sex is very much a part of the background, with no apologies, but we don't have to watch anything too vicious or anything.

Oof! R264, they turned up just as I was typing the above. Mmmmmmmm!

Is tonight when we see Lens as Valerie Molinas?

[quote]Is tonight when we see Lens

And another Ryan Murphy show goes off the rails.

Is Beanie taking over for Lens in the roll of Valery Solaris?

No, you're kidding right R267? Lens isn't really going to be on this, she was on "Cult". God, I hope you're kidding.

Tonight is another double feature.

That's four episodes in two weeks!

I like that format.

The entire season is like that r270...It ends in a couple of weeks. Interestingly, Guillermo Del Torros Cabinet of Curiosities is doing the same thing on Netflix...but 2 episodes each day for 4 days.

I like it this way, too. I think I’ll be less apt to ditch it knowing there are only two weeks left after tonight.

Something big needs to happen this week...we will be at the halfway point.

R273 Well crazy lady on the subway said something’s coming!

They are still shooting.

You've got to be kidding, R275.

Why is this show always so last minute, when it comes to filming?

Every other show in Hollywood is finished months in advance.

I don't understand why this show isn't the same.

Is it just poor planning and organization?

No one has mentioned Denis O’Hare’s character; I’m thinking he’s based on Quentin Crisp who was living in NYC during that time. No English accent but the look is right.

[quote] No one has mentioned Denis O’Hare’s character

All I could think of when I was watching him last week, was "He and Frances Conroy are morphing into the same person."

Well?

What happened?

Russell Tovey's character is into leather....

[quote] Russell Tovey's character is into leather....

Hence the tight jeans and porn stache.

Room for one more, honey.

This season is hilariously bad. Jesus Christ.

R270, that’s what networks do when they’re trying to offload a show. They must know it sucks.

I enjoy the two episodes per week as well. It keeps my interest more and gives me more to think about. I'm still liking this. I'm the person who never likes American Horror Story, so it's really interesting that I'm enjoying myself a lot here. I don't even care about the bits I don't like as much, or whatever, I'm just enjoying the ride.

This show is very realistic in its portrayal of Russell Tovey as a leather queen.

R283 - it is sort of like a bad episode of Law & Order if it were made as a bad 70s porn. I’m still enjoying it though. At least the storyline still holds together. At some point it’ll go completely off the rails. It always does. It doesn’t surprise me if they’re still filming. That seems typical for Murphy. Starts out reasonably strong and engaging, and then goes sideways because the original story was only half thought out, and then he needs to speed through the finish.

So the tall guy really is the killer. He is so creepy and his face is waxy. Who is this guy? Has he been in any other movies or tv shows??

Those two guys he trapped in the elevator are goners!

I feel bad for the Russell Tovey character, because I can relate to his promiscuity. You can try to be faithful, but if you're a compulsive sex addict, it almost never works.

And now it looks like he gave his partner some kind of disease.

Speaking of which, I knew it had to do with Plum Island experiments. We had talked about that before on this site, so it's funny that it's now on AHS.

I'm still confused about the leather guy. Is he real or not??

And Patty Lupone is really good in her role. I thought she would just be singing, and not talking/acting. What a surprise at how good she is at acting!

Is Patty Lupone's character supposed to be a psychic, too?

More Russell Tovey please. Pretty please. Pretty pretty pretty please… my God he’s gorgeous.

[quote] What a surprise at how good she is at acting!

My thoughts too, don't think I've ever really seen do something like this before too. She was fun and made the most of her scene in episode 4.

So the show is basically a livecam?

Patti acting? Oh honey, that was just Patti’s regular personality, that was just another regular Saturday night for her.

So, did the mafia own EVERYTHING gay back then? That was my impression about the references to who owned the bathhouse.

There are several threats. The serial killer, the disease, the homophobic cops refusing to do something, the manipulative ex-wife, Quinto's character, the closet, etc.

Definitely thought Barbara was manipulative by episode four. Earlier on I thought it could've gone either way. Even if she is right about Patrick, she is clearly doing what she's doing not entirely due to benevolent reasons.

Incidentally, the scene in the first episode where Patrick and Barbara meet and the exterior shot. Reference to Nighthawks potentially?

[quote] So, did the mafia own EVERYTHING gay back then? That was my impression about the references to who owned the bathhouse.

In last week's episode, the lady in the leather bar made reference to Vito ending up in an "oil drum" if he stepped on the wrong toes.

That's the second reference to the Mafia running things.

R297 The last Q & A here answers your questions.

Why don’t they give Patty Lapone a better hat to wear on her head? This ones pretty discusting.

Why doesn’t R299 have a basic handle on the English language? Why?

Loved hearing Joy Division Shadowplay in Ep 2. Tovey is well-cast. When he turns in leather hottie he has a great vintage look.

I mean ep. 3.

R301, I shazammed that song because I really liked it. Will be listening to it more, for sure!

[quote]When he turns in leather hottie he has a great vintage look.

Agreed. Loved seeing it. I'm not even into the leather scene myself, but him in that harness and sunglasses really turned me on.

Thanks R298, for that article. Very interesting!

R297, yes that's right, it just reminds me of how marginalised gay men were at the time. Hated by many, exploited by many.

I'm scared for Charlie Carver's character.

Now that he slept with Isaac Powell's character (who probably had sex with hundreds of men in the baths and other places), I'm afraid the Leather Man is coming for him!

So cute!

I cannot believe that Isaac Cole Powell ever dated this KAWEEN in real life.

On second thought, the queen has a nice package.

I guess Isaac was getting dicked down, but GOOD.

Adorable.

Power couple!

I’m loving this. My return watching season 11 but why oh why are the ratings so low this time when it’s much better than the past several?

TIL Isaac Powell is actually a Black man.

Isaac is HAF.

He sings too!

[quote]This season, it's about a government conspiracy to infect gay men with AIDS.

Those evil fuckers very likely did do this. Ryan's just trying to wake everyone up. What's so hard to believe about this theory?

Isaac Powell is so beautiful. Sigh. I wonder what it's like to walk through life like him?

Incidentally, I also have a bit of a thing for the guy who plays Klaus Nomi's friend (the one briefly arrested). Looked him up, his name is Hale Appleman and he was in Teeth, which I watched just the other night.

The difference between the two is I feel that Appleman would be attainable, Powell, not so much for me, haha.

[quote]I’m loving this. My return watching season 11 but why oh why are the ratings so low this time when it’s much better than the past several?

Completely agree. Looking around online, the responses from those not enjoying it often fall under these categories:

- It's not like previous seasons of AHS. We want Evan Peters, Jessica Lange, Sarah Paulson, etc. back. The tone and pacing are different and it's not campy/bloody enough.

- It's too triggering to watch gay men suffering.

- Too many white people (seriously, some are saying this).

For me, if he is to make a show about this dark time in gay men's lives, then I'm glad he is reigning in the camp and taking it a bit more seriously.

Maybe the people above, in general, would've responded better if it hadn't been released under the AHS franchise? Although I'm not sure how it would look then. It's based in reality but not using real people at the same time, so it's not like his other shows in that regard. Honestly, if he did it separately from the franchise, he probably would've just done a complete remake of Cruising.

As for me - I'm really enjoying it, and stoked we are now 4 episodes in and still going strong. I gave up on Murder House after 3 episodes, 1984 lost the plot by the second episode and Hotel was a mess from the beginning (in my opinion). So to get to episode 4 and still be looking forward to next week is a big thing!

R288 He's great, he's Jeff Hiller and if you haven't seen "Somebody, Somewhere" you should, it's only like 5 episodes I think.

Damn, did not know Charlie Carver was a super rich kid who grew up in Napa and went to St. Paul’s.

That background could only get him into USC though, so he clearly didn’t inherit brains.

Like many IVF twins, I think Charlie and his brother share one full brain between them, thank god they’re pretty.

AHS, NYC is great. Surprised at how well they've recreated that time.

If they do have Madonna appear in an episode, they should have Sandra Bernhard go up to her and say "I'm going to turn you bisexual" and then wink to the camera.

I'm still tripping out over the fact that Isaac Powell is apparently half-Black.

This is his father (Will Powell) and sister. Isaac definitely could've passed back in the day. That's crazy.

Charlie Carver's been co-writing some of the episodes, hasn't he?

[quote]I'm still tripping out over the fact that Isaac Powell is apparently half-Black.

I thought I read that he was half white, quarter black and quarter native American.

[quote]Loved hearing Joy Division Shadowplay

I've been listening to that off and on all day today. Why is it that every other Joy Division song I hear is miles better than that overrated "Love Will Tear Us Apart" and yet gets none of the attention of that song?

I'm so pleased they've decided to go with the Cruising approach towards the music in this series. It's not that I don't like a little bit of "I Feel Love" and "Supernature", but honestly, the dark, sinister post punk/new wave music they are using, and that Cruising used, is exactly the type of music I love the most, and it's much more interesting to hear in a show like this than the stereotypical music that gets played in gay shows. The 'alternative' music scene a couple of years either side of 1980 really is brilliant.

There's no way they're still filming the final episodes now, post-production and editing takes weeks. Unless anyone follows the casts' Instagram stories and knows more?

[quote] I'm still tripping out over the fact that Isaac Powell is apparently half-Black.

It looks to me that Isaac is less than half.

His father looks mixed, or even half.

Which would make Isaac only a quarter.

Isaac's dad Will Powell almost looks Italian.

I agree and love your reply r324

r326 His father just looks like a light-skinned Black man to me. I looked up the Native American claim and it sounds like the typical "we got Indian in our family" line I heard a lot growing up (honestly, who doesn't in the US?). Other sites just list his father as "African-American."

A light-skinned Black person with fine hair isn't automatically biracial. That said, it's no telling what the kids will come out looking like if the other parent is White since the Black parent can have both recessive and dominant genes (i.e. Pete Wentz and Garcelle Beauvais sons). Wentworth Miller is another one.

Maybe Beanie can play Lens’s sister Mallory Salinas.

HUGE PENISES!!!!

Where?! Where, R330?!

I'm hoping they don't jump around too much with timelines in this, I am enjoying the 1981 setting very much.

Only two weeks left.

This season is boring the fuck out of me! If it wasn’t for the beauty that is Isaac Powell, I would’ve been stopped watching.

This series almost always sucks for plotting. I've always watched it for other pleasures. Or not at all. Several seasons I just gave up because they didn't have other pleasures for me. The ultimate "mixed bag" or "hit or miss" production.

R326, Isaac has, in interview, referred to his father as black. He has referred to himself as white passing but biracial.

He doesn’t make it more complicated than that. Other people seem to want to.

Ryan Murphy does not have an original bone in his head, but is terrific at cribbing older and better plays and movies. This is such a mash-up of Angels, Cruising and The Normal Heart. But I'm not bored!

I'm kind of enjoying this, despite the meandering plot and questionable acting. The idea is great; the execution fair. I've been in love with Russell Tovey forever. He still looks good, but not a fan of the porn stache, He and Joe Mantello as a couple isn't very realistic. Like others have posted, I eat up anything related to gay NYC in the early '80s. I guessed right off the bat that the black leather guy is either a metaphor for the coming HIV plague, or HIV personified.

[quote] He and Joe Mantello as a couple isn't very realistic

I never realized this when the season started, but Mantello is 19 years older than Tovey!!!

At first, I thought they were closer in age.

However, Russell Tovey was born in 1981 (the year this show was set) and Joe Mantello was born in 1962!

Mantello looks like Tovey's father. But maybe that's the point of Tovey's character. He was looking for someone older and more experienced when he decided to leave his wife and come out. Handsome Tovey married to fug Grossman makes little sense either.

Quinto needs to move past his Harold, from Boys In The Band, personna.

Charlie Carver's acting is atrocious. If he weren't out and with a great body, would anyone even be hiring him? I noticed his name in the writing credits on a couple of episodes. Maybe that's where his talent lies, but the scripts aren't very good. The subject matter is everything; the dialogue and the pace, not so much.

Exactly R340. That bitter queen schtick is tiresome.

I have not seen the other shows/movies referenced in this thread, but I fully expect the show to be derivative.

Since I've never seen those...so far, this is by FAR the best season of American Horror Story I've seen.

Always, the first episode is surprisingly good, the second goes downhill and the third falls off into the toilet. Four episodes into this one and the story is a fucking story. It's a story! A coherent story! Not just a mishmash of gore and grotesqueness and artful but purposeless visuals.

I'm sure it won't be long before it goes to shit, but this season is far and away better than any other to me so far. Last season was as bad as they get. The apocalypse one was kind of 'cool' but the dialogue ("The stew is...Stu!!!!") and the overall writing (Satan's flamboyant son defeats all things on Earth and an army of witches, only to be run over by a Range Rover??!).

This one is just a very gay story so far and it's very well done. It gets an A grading on a Ryan Murphy Productions scale, although I'm sure this week will plummet to D and it will end as an F-minus. It's inevitable.

[quote] It's too triggering to watch gay men suffering.

I feel like someone tapped into the worst anxieties and terrors of my life with this show. I grew up gay, born in 1978, against the backdrop of HIV/AIDS. It was the Boogie Man in my life. Kids beat the shit out of me from middle school onward because I was gay. I had a lot of random sex when I was young, always protected, but I always felt like AIDS was hunting me and going to catch me. In my early thirties I got so sick I honestly thought I was dying. Doctors had no idea—the first doctor I saw with my serious neurological issues looked suspiciously and asked "Have you had an HIV test?" Then he screened for a brain tumor, for ALS, MS, and autoimmune diseases. Several years later, it was diagnosed as Lyme disease. It took several more years to successfully treat it. This show has alluded to both HIV/AIDS and some kind of tickborne disease engineered to decapacitate people and make them suffer. I can't believe this series is combining all those terrifying themes from my life.

omg r344, your story is my story. I also came of age during AIDS and even though I always had protected sex, I felt that AIDS was seeking me out. In 1988 I got really sick for a while and was tested for everything under the son. I was terrified that it was HIV, but it turned out to be lyme disease. I still have tremendous fear of HIV, and I definitely have experienced some PTSD over the past few years with covid and then monkey pox.

r343: Clarice, ARE YOU HIGH?

My mussy involuntarily twitches and snaps like a turtle's neck whenever Charlie Carver appears on screen.

Jeff Hiller is TERRIFYING on this. MARY.

It seems like the Mantello and Tovey characters completely loathe each other. Is Mantello letting Tovey live with him after leaving his wife? If so - fine. But they have zero chemistry and look ridiculous together and just argue in every scene and then Mantello stomps off in a huff.

Love Isaac Powell. And Tovey is so hot.

Quinto plays ALL his roles with side of stone cold bitch. It's been 2 decades of this.

R348 I have known so many couples (mostly straight) who live the same way, just despising one another, not respecting one another and yet inseparable.

Maybe so R350 but it's not fun or entertaining to watch. Maybe it will be revealed that Tovey had some reason for shacking up with Mantello - it seems like his character could still be something quite dark.

[quote]...and "Pose doesn't count because it was too good...

Bwahahaha!

Oh, my sides, MY SIDES!

[quote] Charlie Carver's acting is atrocious. If he weren't out and with a great body, would anyone even be hiring him?

No one is hiring him. Look at his resume: the only things he ever gets hired for are Ryan Murphy productions. Ryan feels bad for him because he is very sweet despite being dumb and talentless.

The day Ryan stops putting out these campy shows Charlie will be the first person on the unemployment line. His acting is David Burtka levels bad.

Maybe Charlie and Beanie could work together

David Burtka is talentless but at least he married well.

Charlie is half of both and neither of either.

When will Charlie marry well, especially while he’s still youngish and pretty?

Who does nudity in this?

They showed a brief shot of Isaac Powell’s ass in the last episode. IMO, Isaac is the most gorgeous man in the cast but the ass was kinda ‘meh’. I would still eat him out because, well, it’s Isaac. I wonder if he’s top, bottom, or versatile in real life.

I was with some friends at the Empire Diner (10th Ave. 22nd St) NYC, in June. It was dinner time, so the place was crowded. AHS NYC was filming at the time.

Zachary Q and Issac P strut in. Both looked good, dressed well, and thinner looking in person, than on camera. The host led them to a booth behind us. Took a look at both their asses. Quinto is flat, Powell is a bubble. After a few minutes they were whisked away from the booth and brought to a private space behind a draped entryway.

What? Can’t eat with the regulars? Lol

R355 - “David Burtka is talentless but at least he married well. Charlie is half of both and neither of either.”

What? Half of both, neither, either… what?

You should’ve stopped at; “David Burtka is talentless.”

I heard Murphy was going to cast a few of the POSE alumni, but they all got fat.

Where’s Billy Porter?

Where Finn Whitrock? He'd be tonz better than Charlie Carver.

Yes this show is missing Billy Porter!

[quote] Zachary Q and Issac P strut in. Both looked good, dressed well, and thinner looking in person, than on camera.

What???

How is that even possible?

Isaac looks skinny as shit on camera!

Isaac looks very slim and yet I would still do him.

Zachary Quinto is not attractive.

I'll be honest, I don't really notice Carver as being a bad actor. He seems to fit in with the show well enough that it doesn't stand out so much to me and distract me from the show, which is what I think of as bad acting. Billie Lourd on the other hand makes me a feel a bit on edge as I watch her. I think she is bad in this because she's not very convincing as the character she is playing.

I hate to say it, but I also haven't been that impressed with Sandra so far. She hasn't had much to do yet, so we'll see as we go along.

Sandra's playing an angry lesbian. That's a 180 from who she is IRL, so cut her some slack while she finds her way with the part.

I keep waiting for Sandra to speak of pavilions.

Will tonight be another "double feature?"

[quote] Isaac is the most gorgeous man in the cast but the ass was kinda ‘meh’. I would still eat him out because, well, it’s Isaac

There was a funny scene in last seasons "AHS Death Valley" where Isaac's boyfriend said he thought he caught giardia from rimming Isaac, and Isaac said "Fuck you, my ass is immaculate."

Your post just made me giggle, thinking of that scene.

No comments on tonight's episode?

No, none.

We are processing !!!

[quote] When will Charlie marry well, especially while he’s still youngish and pretty?

Charlie doesn’t need to marry well, he comes from money. His father was a big league Harvard-educated doctor and his mother’s family is loaded. The twins grew up in Napa and went to an elite New England boarding school.

Tonight's house:

Did anyone die?

I guess I should have seen it coming, Quinto is now embodying Andrew Crispo, the gallery owner and the infamous leather mask killer scenario.

More recent info on leather mask killers.

Good morning.

I think the killer is Patrick, and he blacks out or imagines the leather man. I can’t recall, but has anyone else actually seen the leather man? Also, I half expected the angel of death to be Frances Conroy from Asylum. That would have been an unexpected crossover.

[quote]I think the killer is Patrick, and he blacks out or imagines the leather man.

It does seem to me that while everyone else sees Leather Man, only Patrick has been physically assaulted by him. Correct me if I'm wrong. I know it showed Barbara being killed by him, but as you said, it could be because it is really Patrick.

[quote]I keep waiting for Sandra to speak of pavilions.

[italic]No one[/italic] speaks of pavilions anymore.

R381 - does everyone see the same leather man as Patrick? I think Patrick dresses up as leather man and kills, and what we see as leather man is what Patrick is seeing in his imagination or his head. Kind of like the movie Identity.

[quote]does everyone see the same leather man as Patrick?

I might be making this up, but it struck me there might be different masks? I really could be wrong though, would have to go back and check.

Or is it just saying that Patrick killed Barbara, but not really in the way we saw, but through his cheating on her? We saw that she was incredibly unwell during episode 5, and I assumed she had been infected due to Patrick's promiscuity.

We didn't get much Isaac Powell this week, sadly. They were probably like: "we gave you his ass last week, now give it a rest for a week!" haha.

What I mean is Patrick has dissociative identity disorder and we’re seeing a version of leather man through Patrick’s dissociation. It’s why Barbara and Gino found leather masks.

[quote]They were probably like: "we gave you his ass last week, now give it a rest for a week!"

My ass does require quite a lot of rest.

It's still so much better than other seasons. They're following a solid storyline instead of just throwing gibberish imagery into the mix every episode. I can't believe the season has maintained a story for six episodes. Did they kill off Ryan Murphy and replace him with a coherent writer?

r386, are we implying that Isaac is a slut?

This season is tiresome. Bring back my Coven!

It's a mess. A direct rip-off of Cruising and not an original thought in its head. O'Hare has fallen pretty low to play such an insipid character.

[quote] Jeff Hiller is TERRIFYING on this. MARY.

Absolutely. He just gives me the creeps.

I can imagine the people in casting saying, "He's perfect. He 100% looks like a serial killer!"

And they wouldn't be wrong.

[quote] It's still so much better than other seasons. They're following a solid storyline instead of just throwing gibberish imagery into the mix every episode. I can't believe the season has maintained a story for six episodes.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

Six episodes in, and I'm still invested.

Not only invested, but excited about seeing the finale!!

I have not felt this way about any AHS since Hotel. Everything since Hotel has been a dud.

We all know that Whitely is a killer, but the real question is who ELSE is a killer?

So, episodes 9 & 10 jump to or between 1981 and 1987? I wonder if they will have Isaac’s character as like Mapplethorpe having his big retrospective when he’s very ill and about to die?

[quote]It's still so much better than other seasons. They're following a solid storyline instead of just throwing gibberish imagery into the mix every episode. I can't believe the season has maintained a story for six episodes. Did they kill off Ryan Murphy and replace him with a coherent writer?

I agree, even though as I've said on the other thread, I'm not keen on some of where the plot is going. It's not going off the rails though, it still is a proper storyline, and I'm still interested to see what happens next.

[quote]So, episodes 9 & 10 jump to or between 1981 and 1987? I wonder if they will have Isaac’s character as like Mapplethorpe having his big retrospective when he’s very ill and about to die?

I think I saw that those two episodes are titled "Requiem", so I'm expecting them to be sad, especially jumping forward to 1987. Also, after episode 5 and some of the things said in the psychic shop, it sounds like pretty much every one of our characters could be doomed.

r379 Under any other circumstances, I'd think that was kinda weird for siblings. But then I remember that twins (especially identical) tend to be unusually close compared to non-twin siblings. Almost weirdly so. If they shared a sac, the weirdness elevates. As in...paranormally weird.

Are the Carver boys mirror twins?

I think Beanie comes in, sings “Don’t Rain on my Parade” and kills everyone with the strength and power of her voice.

I just wrote a scene set in a psychic shop with a tarot reading. It's a lot more ambiguous than the one AHS just gave us. I don't know if that's good or bad. Several people in my writing group were trying to decode the reading and assumed I was telegraphing the whole plot, which I didn't do. I certainly wouldn't present DEATH DEVIL DEATH DEATH DEATH. And that was a little annoying to me. Lupone (I think) did say the death card doesn't portend death but then the show presented it as if it does anyway.

[quote]Lupone (I think) did say the death card doesn't portend death

That was Sandra, I think. She said it when it first showed up, before it went crazy.

Incidentally, as a kid I always wanted a set of tarot cards, finally got myself some with some great art on them - and when I got them home it turns out the person who had made them had replaced "Death" and "The Devil" with different words, because she felt those words were too harsh (I think one was called "Transformation" or something instead). I won't lie, I was a bit disappointed haha.

R397 I hope you didn’t purchase them yourself, that’s bad juju, you need to be given theme by someone else.

Sandra Bernhard is….fine…but omg she looks rough these days

[quote]Are the Carver boys mirror twins?

Yes. One is left-handed and the other is right-handed. They were also born on different days in different months which isn't as strange as it sounds (i.e when mom starts giving birth 10 minutes before midnight on the last day of the month).

Episode 5 featuring Sandra and the tarot cards was a snooze. Episode 6 with the whole fire island and unexpected plot twist ending was good good good but a bit gory.

How did Gino and the fixer arrive on Fire Island within minutes of Sam & Patrick? The ferries don't run that close together.

[quote] Episode 6 with the whole fire island and unexpected plot twist ending was good good good but a bit gory.

Much too gory.

I get that it's a horror story, but still... ugh.

[quote] How did Gino and the fixer arrive on Fire Island within minutes of Sam & Patrick? The ferries don't run that close together.

Lol. You really have to suspend disbelief with this show, R402.

Have you not learned that by now?

R402 - “ How did Gino and the fixer arrive on Fire Island within minutes of Sam & Patrick? The ferries don't run that close together.”

They tapped their ruby slippers 3 times, Rose.

I assume while Sam and Patrick were reminiscing about killing the twink they also went on to get high, drink and have sex before looking to rebury the body., thus there was plenty of time.

Maybe Lens and Beanie can represent trans men in this season

I don't think Big Daddy is a person or in any way real. I think he represents the onset of the AIDS crisis.

As for Patrick, I don't think he's Big Daddy or that he killed Barbara. They showed her getting sick for a reason. They've already established that both Patrick and Gino are infected so it makes sense that Barbara would be infected as well.

Would have liked to see Cody Fern this season. Wish Murphy would stop casting Grossman and Lourde. The story always slows when they're on screen.

[quote]I hope you didn’t purchase them yourself, that’s bad juju, you need to be given theme by someone else.

Ahh, fuck. I uh, did. I'm not sure anyone would ever buy a deck for me, even. I mean, I'll be honest, I don't really believe in them at the same time, but still. I just always wanted a deck.

[quote]How did Gino and the fixer arrive on Fire Island within minutes of Sam & Patrick? The ferries don't run that close together.

Ok, so I don't know from Fire Island at all, but...

Gino sees Patrick and Sam leaves and immediately runs inside where he finds Henry in his apartment. Gino pretty quickly lets Henry know about the killer, and Henry decides to take him to Fire Island. They aren't that far behind.

Now, is it possible that they drove there? I looked on Maps, and there is a bridge. Could it be possible that they both drove or that one party drove and the other party took the bridge? Would that make up the time?

I will admit, I did find it a bit strange how quickly they got there too. But maybe it could be explained? Then again, this is AHS, probably best to just let it wash over us, haha.

[quote]or that one party drove and the other party took the bridge?

Sorry, I meant:

"or that one party drove and the other party took the [italic]ferry[/italic]?"

R409 - I lived in Sayville on the mainland of Long Island. Sayville is directly north of Cherry Grove and the Pines. I marked their locations in red, on the map. To get there, you need to take a ferry/ boat, or swim.

There is a bridge, yes, on the very west end of Fire Island. You can see it on the map. However, once you’re on the beach, traffic is only permissible to government and law-enforcement vehicles. And you would absolutely need the proper tires to maneuver on the sand.

As R403 correctly posted; this is what’s called “suspension of disbelief”. Just go with it. I know those ferry docks like the back of my hand. Mantello and O’Hare’s scene was taken at the dock. So O’Hare parked his car in the ferry lot, and then they took the ferry over to meet Tovey, Quinto, Whitely the serial killer, and the dead twink at the Pines.

Mantello, O'Hare (Henry) and AHS season 1 alum Dylam McDermott are all the same age.

[quote]Just go with it. I know those ferry docks like the back of my hand.

The little baby jesus weeps with profound sadness.

Which episode is it where Beanie’s character makes an appearance?

R411 So, of the three men, how comes the one who is straight looks the best of all of them? This completely dispels the idea that the gays know how to take care of themselves with moisturizing, beauty routines, exercising and keeping aging at bay.

Thanks, R410! That is very interesting. Also, I'm a total geography/map geek, so doubly interesting, haha!

I don't think that the guy who diedwhile being fucked by Tovey, can be considered a 'twink."

He's too old to be a twink.

I agree, R416. What I recently found weird too with those people complaining about AHS online them saying Murphy had just filled this season with typical white twinks. Do people not know what a twink IS anymore? I can't think of any characters in this who could be considered twinks. The guy who died might have been intended to be one, but he did look a bit old for it.

Is Beanie considered a twink?

As good as season 11 is, it's hard to watch having come of age in the Eighties. I turned eighteen in 1984. It was an awful time.

I can't even imagine, R419. It must've been awful. I've been watching a lot of history from that time recently and it is fascinating to contrast it with the 80s nostalgia craze, because it is so clear living through the 80s could be really tough.

Was that Gideon Glick playing the guy Patrick fucked to death? I know he's on the series somewhere.

For the survivors, the hardest part of the eighties was being a survivor.

How exactly did the “twink” die? Was it accidental strangulation or did Dumbo Ears Tovey literally fucked him so hard, it killed him?

He got fucked into next Tuesday!

He suffocated in the mask.r423

[quote]Was that Gideon Glick playing the guy Patrick fucked to death? I know he's on the series somewhere.

I think he played one of the artists, one of the guys who ended up strapped to the table when Whiteley unveiled his horror zombie creature and was trying to decide who would give the heart and who would give the genitals.

His IMDB says 5 episodes.

Is Tovey uncut?

Is Beanie uncut?

[quote]Was that Gideon Glick playing the guy Patrick fucked to death?

This is Mr. Fire Island Beachbody, 1979.

^^^ His parents must be so proud, and very busy sharing the news about his part at Temple.

First he died while being fucked in some stocks, now he's acting in Rent? I'm not sure which one is more humiliating, poor guy.

He suffocated in the mask, while Tovey's character was fucking him.

Patrick was so high from coke, that he didn't even notice.

It was Quinto's character that told him to stop.

Is Zachary Quinto gay IRL?

Yes, unfortunately r434.

100% R434.

He was dating Lea Michele's best friend, Jonathan Groff.

Then Zach dated Miles McMillen after breaking up with Jonathan.

So we can only conclude that Zach is a top, based on his partners.

Interesting...photos of Charlie Carver hanging out with proud slut Daniel Newman and some Instahooker who is friends with prostitute Alam Wernik. I guess this is probably the circle of gays who supply Ryan Murphy's casting stable of gays.

Lol R438.

And it seems that all these celebrity sluts get around with each other.

Now, Zach Quinto's ex-boyfriend Miles McMillan is dating Trace Lenhoff.

And Trace Lenhoff used to date Antoni Porowski.

It is interesting Daniel Newman hasn't become a Ryan Murphy Productions player. He's gay, he does Crossfit, he likes being naked and showing off, he has proved he can memorize lines and recite them in front of a camera. He's certainly qualified for the horror story franchise.

Daniel Newman with porner Cade Maddox just a couple of days ago.

I guess Charlie Carver had a good time in London with all the sex workers!

I actually loved Daniel on "The Walking Dead," R441.

Maybe he never auditioned to be on AHS.

Though he would be perfect for it, because he has already worked in the horror genre.

R443 And also because he's a gay slut who'd totally bang Murphy, GOOP's hubby and the whole cast!

I have a friend who was fuckbuddies with ZQ over 15 years ago and Zach is versatile.

The cuties at R430 Danny Harris Kornfeld in fact looks quite like young Jeffrey Seller, the producer of Rent. I had a fling with young JS and he was very sexy and had striking eyes and poodle hair, like this one, but blonde. Seller must be rich as Midas, now.

What sweet irony that Quinto, a notorious twink chaser, dumped Groff for that twinky model Miles, only to have Miles later dump his ass for a much younger man, Trace!

Just like Dennis O’Hare says to Joe Mantello on the show, chasing men half your age only leads to heartbreak.

Let’s face facts!

Who WOULDN’T dump Zachary Quinto?

Regarding the Tarot reading. The Death card does not mean physical death on its own. Depending on the other cards it can, most likely, indicate the end of something old and the beginning of something new (relationship, job, money status, etc.). The Devil symbolizes a bad, negative influence, someone who gives bad advice, a temptation or addiction that is in the way of what you truly desire.

On a personal note, the day before my mother died, I got the ace of cups that can be interpreted as receiving lots of empathy and compassion. And that's what I got, from the ones condoling me after my mother died suddenly in her sleep. No death card, no devil, no Tower, or any other negative card from the deck. In real life, the cards aren't in-your-face obvious.

Of course, in horror movies and shows, the readings are a lot darker and indeed more supernatural. In real life there's no supernatural element and it is a more emotional, unhealthy attachment or one that no longer suits you.

Quinto tried his damndest to keep Miles happy, but when they were out together, body language told all. Quinto always looked like a puppy trying to get approval from his master. Miles always looked fucking bored to death. And avoided body contact. Judging by his Insta, he's a much happier person with Trace. And judging by Trace's Insta, who wouldn't be happier?

To me Quinto doesn't look like someone who is eager to please others. He seems a bit self-involved in the sense that (he and) his career comes first, and the partner better be ok with that or stay miserable until Quinto is over the bickering and angry looks of his boyfriend and moves on.

I hate this shit. We're discussing AHS, not your imaginary boyfriend's do's and don'ts R449 ad R450 . Move the fuck on.

So how did it end?

Was it a good finale? A positive finale?

Thats next week r452

Nothing tonight, R453??

Yes 2 episodes...and the final 2 are next week

Thanks, R455.

Someone said there are only eight episodes total.

But I guess it's 10.

R446, it is interesting to note that Sam's younger boyfriend dumped him for a dude closer to his age, even while they were in an open relationship. Miles has since dated guys closer to his age, and those relationships have by all accounts been monogamous. Guess this is art imitating life?

I’m sick of this tall and extremely odd looking killer. I look forward to his death. He better not kill my Isaac.

I had to giggle with Adam this week - he is very me in some ways. The discussion about STIs with Theo, where Adam has never had anything but did once think he had crabs (he was wrong). That's my background exactly, haha (for me it was briefly misidentifying ingrown hairs, I'm a doofus.).

Episode 8 and so far Murphy has stayed on story… that has to be some kind of record.

Right, R460? I'm actually really quite shocked.

This show is horrifically terrible.

The plotting is ridiculous and lurches from one thing to another.

There is no consistent structure.

Everything is cheaply shot and they just use the dark to avoid giving us much of a sense of place.

Quinto is a good actor but his character is a cartoon.

You know that O’Hare and Mantello have to remind themselves on set that “You’re making TV money… just suck it up.”

The competition for worst actor features a crowded field. Billie sets a high bar… she shouldn’t be in a grade-school play. Sweet little Charlie huffs and puffs like the Big Bad Wolf so I guess that’s acting of a sort. And I love Sandra and root for her career but this id pretty embarrassing for her.

Our friends have a group text to cackle about how terrible everything about this show is.

[quote]Our friends have a group text to cackle about how terrible everything about this show is.

You sound like a charming bunch.

R462 - Mantello is chewing up the scenery more than anyone else on the show. His whiny character annoys me the most.

[quote]Issac Powell who plays the bathhouse slut photographer is fucking HOT!

R64 is fucking HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGH.

I'm loving this season, and yes it has been very coherent compared to other seasons.

However, I wonder if it should have ended with eight episodes. Theo's death would have been a good finish.

That ending was so sad. It made me emotional. His death from AIDS, and all the other young twinks from the 80's, who didn't know what hit them. Practically an entire generation of young gay men.

It truly is an American Horror Story.

Since Adam, Vito, and Patrick beat the leather man, I think that they will be the survivors who come out of the plague. I don't think Zach Quinto's character will make it. Or maybe he will.

Episode 8 is the second time the show ended with an extended period of black screen silence. I appreciate that little tribute to the lives lost. The first time was after episode 1 and the bath house scene, with Patty Lupone ending on that emotional song. Then fade to black and silence.

They did the same thing with Theo's death, except it was a fade to white, with a black screen moment of silence. I love that.

I think that ending the season with a sad Patty Lupone song, would be just perfect.

I'm game!

Nico Greetham's television bio says that he was in this season of of AHS New York as "Dennis Calliope."

Did he appear yet? Where? I must have missed it.

I would love to have seen him paired up with Isaac again.

[quote] That ending was so sad. It made me emotional. His death from AIDS, and all the other young twinks from the 80's, who didn't know what hit them. Practically an entire generation of young gay men.

Agreed. It was very sad, but done in a beautiful way.

[quote]It truly is an American Horror Story.

Agreed - well, it is really an World Horror Story. But I know what you mean. I saw some people online complaining that it wasn't a horror story, I thought: that's because you're not gay, you can't see it.

That sequence with Sandra and the Death card constantly coming up in her reading at the party at the end was so chilling and sad.

I thought so too, R470. And the boys laughing it off or not really taking it seriously as Sandra looked around the room at them all.

The scene of Denis O'Hare and Joe Mantello at the beach was so Fatal Attraction, "I will not be ignored!". LOL

Am I wrong, or was one of the deer men at the end Stool Guy? Theo recognises them all as men he's photographed, and I thought one of them looked like him.

Queerty covering the important news as always.

Oof. Hello, daddy!

Who is Dennis Calliopipe?

I love Russell Tovey AND his ears!

They really set him apart in Hollywood, especially in a world of lookalike actors.

Tovey is nice and THICK too, which I love.

OMG this Russell Tovey video is hilarious!!!

I love at the end when the person recording the video says, "YES, QUEEEN!"

Rofl. That is so cute.

R477, there was a brief, yet nice, shot of his bum in last night's episode too.

I agree about the ears. What people think of as "imperfection" in looks often is what makes perfection.

[quote]Am I wrong, or was one of the deer men at the end Stool Guy?

The actor was credited in last night's episode, and he'll be back next week along with the victim of Patrick's coke-fucking.

Has anyone figured out who is Dennis Calliope.

He's the character Nico Greetham plays.

Who is Nico Greenham?

Billie Lourde is a horrible actress and totally miscast as a doctor/researcher. She delivers her lines with all the skill, feeling and depth of a porn actress. I fully expect her to take off her clothes and start giving a toothy blowjob to her scene partners after each woodenly delivered line.

Since the cop station scenes are likely over, we guessed wrongly about Kal Penn or fat cop Mulcahey having a reveal.

R483 A man who likes his eggs over easy.

[quote] Who is Nico Greenham?

Nico Greetham was on last season of American Horror Story: Death Valley.

He and Isaac Cole Powell played hot gay boyfriends.

I wasn’t paying that close attention, but I totally missed that Theo died. American Whore Story indeed.

[quote]The actor was credited in last night's episode, and he'll be back next week along with the victim of Patrick's coke-fucking.

Ahh. I really hope we're not going down a wall-to-wall ghost type situation in the last episodes. I really don't like who this franchise is so obsessed with ghosts. Maybe short appearances as ghosts/memories are fine, but...

[quote]Billie Lourde is a horrible actress and totally miscast as a doctor/researcher. She delivers her lines with all the skill, feeling and depth of a porn actress. I fully expect her to take off her clothes and start giving a toothy blowjob to her scene partners after each woodenly delivered line.

Ha! Yeah, she ain't good. I have gotten used to her and found her a bit better in the more recent episodes, but maybe that's just exposure. I did feel a bit bad for her when she was on the phone to her mother wanting to come see her because she was sick. I guess that was an example of the whole "going home" thing that was happening in the 80s.

Theo got progressively sick very fast. Was this just for the show or were there actual cases of those with AIDS who would get sicker that quick in one day?

[quote] Ahh. I really hope we're not going down a wall-to-wall ghost type situation in the last episodes. I really don't like who this franchise is so obsessed with ghosts. Maybe short appearances as ghosts/memories are fine, but...

It's one way to explain Leslie Grosssman (whom I absolutely love, btw) having her name in the main credits when her character dies almost halfway through.

I love this season so fucking much. Horror comes in so many ways and the AIDS crisis in the 80s killing so many guys in the Gay Community is a great way to commemorate that. Those were horrific times.

[quote]I love this season so fucking much. Horror comes in so many ways and the AIDS crisis in the 80s killing so many guys in the Gay Community is a great way to commemorate that. Those were horrific times.

It's so horrific, I agree. I don't understand why some people online are complaining it's not scary enough, but I guess it's because they're not gay, so the portrayal of a virus AND a serial killer killing off gay men and an apathetic society doesn't get to them the way it does us?

Having said that, I'm noticing most reviews on this are actually really positive, which is great.

Are we certain it was AIDS? I thought it was a combination of the drugs and being strung up like that. That’s how people die in a crucifixion, their lungs eventually stop breathing.

Hes been sick and it was noticeable in the last episode.

But who is Don Calliope?

R495 Why do you think that is funny?

I'm thrown by the disease thing.

There's the obvious reference to Lyme disease, which they've consistently discussed being engineered by scientists to make people suffer, and that seems to be Sandra Bernhard's character's obsession. Lyme is also associated with a large round rash similar to the ones they're showing, and there's a conspiracy theory that it was engineered in a government biowarfare lab on Plum Island off the coast of New York and Montauk.

And then there's AIDS. Unless I have missed it, there hasn't been a single overt reference to AIDS as an STD that makes people sick and then kills them; instead it is represented by the gay leather boogieman who lurks in dark corners and stares until people are taken away into the white light by shirtless twinks with antlers.

How are you reading these? As separate illnesses within the show? Or is AIDS so mysterious that it is being mistaken for a tickborne disease? They killed off all the deer to prevent spread and obviously it is still spreading, so maybe they are just mistaking AIDS, because it is so new, for something else.

Of course, the Billy Lourd character caught it and she isn't gay, and AIDS has to be acquired through sex or intravenously.

Maybe both diseases are meant to be just representative of the STD and the tickborne disease but not actually AIDS and Lyme specifically.

I explained early on that lyme and HIV are morphed.

I'm surprised the leather community hasn't tried to cancel Murphy for insinuating they spread AIDS.

They don't spread AIDS. They ARE AIDS.

R499 Your comment just made me realize that leather is conflated with gay mass killings in two ways in the show: the leather fetishists are shown to be the victims of AIDS, personified by a leatherclad Tom of Finland type, and the serial killer makes leather out of gay men and stitches it together into a quilted [AIDS quilt reference?] human-shaped Frankenstein's monster that he believed would come to life and represent all gay men.

Is Murphy himself part of the leather scene? He seems really interested in exploring the imagery of it throughout a lot of his work, it seems to me. Maybe he just finds it fascinating?

[quote]the serial killer makes leather out of gay men and stitches it together into a quilted [AIDS quilt reference?] human-shaped Frankenstein's monster that he believed would come to life and represent all gay men.

Interesting pickup!

[Quote] Of course, the Billy Lourd character caught it and she isn't gay, and AIDS has to be acquired through sex or intravenously.

She’s knocked up with sperm from a gay sperm donor so there’s that connection. But there is also Sandra’s lesbian friend who has it so maybe she got it from ticks, maybe from intravenous drug use? As stated by others, I think in this show the disease is a combo of a few things from real life and represented by the leather man.

(The leather man is now also channeling Jason Vorhees as he has been shot and assumed dead, yet disappears as soon as the protagonists backs are turned.)

Yeah, R503, I just assumed the disease is to HIV/AIDS what Whiteley is to a real serial killer of the time.

Meh. I'd rather watch Julia Roberts in a wheelchair hurling binders at people.

R505 = Julia

Recent podcast with Russell Tovey where he says Joe Mantello recruited and championed him for the Virginia Woolf Broadway revival as well as this role.

Mantello clearly wants to fuck him, BAD.

Or Mantello clearly already fucked him, GOOD.

What about me? I'm fresh as a mountain spring!

Tovey in shorts manspreading on a chair in Fire Island while pissed off was arousing AF.

How does Murphy keep getting work?

The Fire Island ep was 80,000 kinds of bad. Like a high school production.

R511 because people watch his shows and the shows make money. BUT YOU KNOW THAT. Here's a suggestion. If you don't like, don't watch. Say something critical but incisive. Twat.

Loved seeing Patti in this, but her story had no ark.

[quote] Loved seeing Patti in this, but her story had no ark.

Noah had an Ark.

Patti had no arc.

Patti was wasted in the role.

It was an opportunity to have her filmed singing songs queens want to have:

1) Send in the Clowns

2). Losing My Mind

3) My Man

5) Ten Cents a Dance

And yet we get a tired “Fever”

[quote] And yet we get a tired “Fever”

Omg, really?

The song had to do with the story, you moron.

FEVER. Get it?? Everyone is getting sick with FEVER.

And then her other song is "Calling You."

As in, "the disease" is CALLING YOU.

Do you think the song choices were just an accident???

[quote] Loved seeing Patti in this, but her story had no ark.

LOL. Now I want a Murphy show where Patti IS Noah and saves the Gays from God's wrath by building a giant party boat.

R517…you’re a bit… uh…. special, aren’t you…

[quote]Patti was wasted in the role.

I'd like to see more of her (we may in the final two episodes, but). But also, I think I would've just been happy with her being a character who turned up regularly to sing - in a way that commented on what was happening. She could be a singing Cassandra type character maybe. I would've liked that.

It's more standard RM Productions stuff. He wedge Stevie Nicks into the Coven season in an awkward way, making one of the witches obsessed with her and then just having her spring a surprise visit to sing a song in her house. She was clearly just there because Murphy is a fan and fetishizes her as a cool witch.

Patti’s fine. She sends her love.

r521, I don't really get that argument. Why shouldn't a showrunner be a total fangirl and hire performers he or she admires? It was one of the best parts of Coven (Misty being a Stevie Nicks fan, the music having a positive influence on Misty, and Stevie showing up). For me, In the case of Coven, it enhanced the story and made the season better.

Coven was so much fun. I miss that AHS.

Finale tonight!!!

AHS: A Christmas Carol

this is terrible

Oh no, R527!

Please don't tell me that.

I knew the show should have ended last week.

Great job telling the backstories of these characters. However, it’s tough to watch their suffering.

so what was Big Daddy supposed to be?

I'm glad I stuck around to see Tovey's ears lit from behind.

That was atrocious.

[quote] so what was Big Daddy supposed to be?

The "Angel of Death.'

[quote] I think that ending the season with a sad Patty Lupone song, would be just perfect.

I kind of called it at R466.

Except that they did it for episode 9, and not episode 10.

I think the endings for 9 and 10 should have been switched. It would have made more sense.

I’m watching Episode 9 and like most of the season, it’s boring as FUCK! This was NOT a good season. Bring back my Coven witches next season please!

Ok....who killed Leslie Grossman's character then? If The Angel of Death/Leatherman was not 'real'?

And Leslie should play Marjorie Taylor Greene, a real American Horror Story.

AHS: Funny Girl Billy Porter plays the role of Fanny Brice Lens Dunham as Nick Arnstein Billie Lourd as Mrs. Arnstein Alex Newell as Eddie Beanie Feldstein as Mrs Strakosh

**DREAM CAST**

I think it's painfully obvious that Ryan Murphy is bored and this is just a contract he must fill

I get that the 1980s AIDS epidemic is an actual American horror story, but the season could have been better. There were a lot of plot holes and potential storylines that went nowhere (Theo having witchy/psychic connections? Fran saying the U.S. gov had something to do with the virus? How exactly did Billie Lourd's character die?, etc.)

and if Big Daddy wasn't real then what killed Barbara?

This season was a vast improvement over 1984, Roanoke, and Death Valley.

The first eight episodes were fantastic, but in true Ryan Murphy style, he just can't deliver a good ending.

I could probably write a more satisfying ending to the season, than what his writers did.

And that last scene with Vito's death with the song "Radioactive" playing in the background, went on for WAY too long. WAY WAY too long.

I thought that Patrick's death scene in episode nine was much better, sadder, and more poignant.

I like the season overall, but episode ten was underwhelming in the horror department. It was just depressing.

[quote] and if Big Daddy wasn't real then what killed Barbara?

Barbara wasn't physically attacked. She collapsed in the shower. Just like Hannah succumbed to the illness at home without anyone choking her like Adam suspected.

Our damn streaming service was acting up last night so I didn't get to watch this then, but I did get up early to watch episode 9 before work. Will have to leave the final to tonight.

But did I not say "Calling You" would make a return? I'd never heard that song before this series, and I am so glad I've been introduced to it.

Such a grim and sad episode. More of the surreality I expect from AHS, but I can handle it better when it's done in cases such as this, like when people are dying or delirious, etc.

I doubt it's going to be explained, but I will be interested to see if they do explain why it was that someone like Barbara died so quickly. Was she infected with a different disease? I'm slightly confused there.

I just don't care about Sam's life though. Just never liked his character. But while episode 7 was making the argument that gay men should band together to fight against prejudice and hate, this episode seemed to be making the argument that we need to band together to show love for each other and ourselves.

Tempted to go in late to work today just to finish the series off, but no, I'll be good and wait until tonight, haha.

Oh, I was also surprised at the depiction of the hospital in 1987 - I would've thought by then the medical staff would've been better at understanding the virus and knowing they could be in there safely. But perhaps it was more an artistic depiction of the abandonment gay men felt at the time? Or maybe it was accurate? I wouldn't know. So very sad.

I thought this was haunting and beautiful, Kraftwerk playing, Big Daddy throwing blood on and shooting people, the men in the death masks toppling into the open grave. And Larry Kramer's husband coming to get him at the end. How come people didn't like it? This was true horror, we didn't need a fucking space alien or a killer clown or any of the other bullshit from seasons past. I really enjoyed this.

It was complete shit. An insult to those who died of AIDS and turning the gay community into a sadomasochistic sleazefest. Conservatives must have been fapping away during each episode. It made Dahmer seem like a masterpiece.

I totally agree r544.

As someone who lived through the 80s in NYC and saw pretty much all of my friends die within a few years, I can say this seemed pretty much right on the money. Yes, Aids floors in hospitals were dingy, depressing and understaffed. Yes, families of the victims often wanted to deny what happened to their loved ones.

The image of all of the men hurling themselves into the same grave chilled me.

My lover of 40 years died a couple of years ago from ALS and I can only hope that he will be waiting for me in the light as he promised. I will seek for you Wolfie.

I am watching it now. The music sequence at the end of the last episode has made it unwatchable. I think it's been 10 minutes long, and the sound effects are driving me fucking insane. Why do the producers of this show make SUCH TERRIBLE CHOICES?

Lipstick-on-a-pig-calibre schlock.

R545I thought it made the gay community look like a caring community. Dedicated to each other, there on each other's deathbeds, planning each other's funerala and being more loyal than any hetero couple.

It is over, thank God. Ugh. I was honestly glad for the death so that goddamned music would stop.

To me, this season held out as relatively decent 80 percent longer than any season since the first couple. I appreciate the conceit of it, and it wasn't executed as terribly as I would have expected from this team.

I was very moved for a few minutes when Tovey was blind in the hospital but then it did turn into A Christmas Carol. Another weird-bad choice.

The "twist" of the cop with the serial killer didn't work for me.

The men in suits falling into the grave honestly offended me. Not only because it was tasteless but because it was just a stupid way to depict the tragedy of AIDS, and it feels disrespectful to the people who died.

The leatherman boogie man was...a choice. Not a choice I would have made or encouraged. It wasn't the worst part of the season, I guess.

I've feared AIDS all my life and my life was destroyed for almost a decade by long-undiagnosed Lyme disease, so this could have really destroyed me, but the show is just so *not good* that it made me more frustrated than emotive. Bummer.

[quote] The "twist" of the cop with the serial killer didn't work for me.

Can someone please explained what was going on in this scene.

I didn't understand it at all.

What was the point of a ten episode miniseries? All the story threads fell apart. It could have been a forgettable hour long twilight zone episode.

Murphy should just direct car commercials.

The point of a ten hour miniseries was to dress up current gay centric stars in 1980's garb and have them play act dumbed down real life tragedies for a simpleminded audience.

I did enjoy this season, it kept my attention all the way through, but it could have been so much better. Imagine if this was a season of True Detective. I hope that someone someday will direct a great movie or series about gay men in NYC in the late 70s-early 80s.

Also, I couldn't stand Billie Lourd's voiceover in the final episode, she could have been reading her grocery list, just a terrible actress.

Lol R554, you are such a cunt.

You're funny, though.

R551 When you find out, let me know, I don't get it either.

R551, it was metaphorical.

Barbara: "You didn't start it, but that didn't stop it from breaking you into pieces."

Then they both watch Vision Patrick cutting up the body. When he takes off his googles and Scrooge Patrick recognizes himself, he gives Barbara a confused look.

Whitely talks about making the parts fit, hiding the scars under a uniform, etc. When Patrick sees his own head coming out of the box, he shoots Barbara an even stronger "WTF?" look and she says, "this is you, Patrick."

She tells him he was a botched mess of a person, always throwing himself down escape hatches and then gathering up the pieces and putting himself back together over and over. She asks why he kept doing it. Did it make it stop? He doesn't know what "it" is. She says (paraphrasing), the pain that made you cut yourself up in the first place. Your body will keep reminding you of that until you face it.

Then it goes to the scene with his father.

Thank you R558!

I thought it was weird that Sandra and the lesbians saw the Big daddy character…but there was no ending for them. They just kinda disappeared.

Perhaps Sandra’s character changed her name to Nancy and moved to Langford Illinois to befriend a large waitress and her younger neurotic sister?

^ Lanford

R543. IIRC , it was the case, at least in the 80s, that women (especially WOC) often died more quickly from AIDS, in part because of physiological differences (sorry, this is when sex/gender is NOT just a social construct) and because doctors saw AIDS initially as only a gay men’s disease and so gynecological diseases like pelvic inflammation were not treated as forms of AIDS.

I still wasn’t sure if Leatherman was the AIDS Angel of Death, or if he was actually representing Patrick and other gay men indiscriminately having sex and passing along the virus. That’s how I interpret what happened to Barbara - Patrick gave her AIDS because of his sleeping around with men. What I can’t explain is why the lezbos saw and confronted Leatherman on Fire Island. I think it was definitely a “horror story” and you probably needed to have lived through that time to understand how so. I appreciated it, but it could have wrapped after 8 episodes.

Yeah, thanks R558.

I mean, it was a good explanation.

Maybe I'm slow, but it seems way too complex for the audience.

I'm thinking that many other people have no idea what that was about either.

The scene is very creative writing workshop.

[quote] And Leslie should play Marjorie Taylor Greene, a real American Horror Story.

I think there's a good chance this will happen. Ryan Murphy and other producers are very likely in the early stages of developing shows or movies based on 2020 election that involved far right MAGAs/QAnons like MTG, Lauren Boebert, Cawhtorn, COVID-19 pandemic, and the insurrection. Showtime announced an insurrection project and there's a limited series and podcast in development about the plot to kidnap Gretchen Whitmer, so it won't be long before Murphy tries to angle in for a series or movie related to covid or far right groups or 2020/2021 events. I could totally see him either getting Leslie Grossman or Analeigh Ashford to play MTG. I could also see him casting Finn Wittrock as Matt Gaetz in a project lol.

[quote] I thought it was weird that Sandra and the lesbians saw the Big daddy character…but there was no ending for them. They just kinda disappeared.

I need to rewatch some of the earlier episodes. But, I think one of the lesbians had previously gone to Hannah's office because she had a rash. Big Daddy's apperance probably signaled to the lesbians that the one with the rash was going to die or Hannah was going to die.

I thought it was ridiculous how the lesbians weren't in the finale two episodes especially since they had interactions with Gino and Hannah.

Sandra was in Pose as a nurse who cared for gay and transgender men dying of AIDS. Her character may have been meant to be a crossover. Maybe Pose was her future.

Did Adam's roommate ever show up, or was that just a McGuffin?

[quote] Did Adam's roommate ever show up, or was that just a McGuffin?

The guy who played Sully was promised a throwaway role on the show, if he's sleep with one of the writers.

Jared Reinfeldt is quite cute, though.

He should have played the "twink" who got fucked by Zach and Russell Tovey at the Fire Island party.

That would have been hot.

Jared's Instagram.

I think he should get more AHS roles, because he's cute.

Jared looks a bit like Jack Picking from Hollywood and The Greatest Beer Run Ever.

Where was Beanie? I was told Beanie was going to be in this!!!

Maybe if Beanie dyes her hair blonde she could play Margorie Taylor Greene in a Ryan Murphy project.

So, sexy Nico Greetham never showed up?

[quote] So, sexy Nico Greetham never showed up?

Supposedly, he played a character named "Don Calliope" this season, but no one could figure out who he was.

I don’t know who this season’s for. Is it for the baby gays who missed The Normal Heart and Pose? I can’t imagine straight guys hanging through this.

And I agree, Theo’s powers were thrown away. It seems that the Angel of Death’s appearance is the only connection to the other seasons.

The season was what it was: more cohesive than most, modestly enjoyable but missed the landing.

Ok, done! Episode 10 finished just then. Will go back and read all your thoughts on the last two episodes in a moment.

Very sad and grim ending, but I was happy they did it that way. I think it's important my generation and those that come after it are fully aware of the crisis, especially in this age of Prep etc.

So no more Sandra then - which makes me realise that that picture in the OPs article wasn't actually in the show.

Overall, I enjoyed my time watching this series - it is the only AHS I've seen that seemed to follow a storyline through to the end. There were a number of typical Murphy-ish touches throughout, but nothing that derailed it for me. I get the feeling it was very important to everyone behind this to tell this story. It remained serious, without getting too campy.

Some good shots in here too. The one with Gino and Patrick in the shop window that becomes Gino walking by himself was really lovely.

I don't know if I'll ever come back to watching it again, but I am glad that I did, and alongside you all too.

My issue with Big Daddy is that we clearly saw him physically attack and kill people in the first half of the season. In the last two episodes, he becomes this spectral metaphor for AIDS. For Ryan Murphy, typically inconsistent and confusing.

Whose Don CAlliolippie?

(copy/paste from the other thread)

Episodes 9 & 10 were truly awful, a tiresome mashup of overwrought morbid leftovers and bluntly inept metaphor.

'Longtime Companion + 'Falconhead' (minus the sex) + a lengthy string of cheesy music video bits.

Linked is an example of what the writers and directors were attempting, which that director and Coil accomplished decades ago, and with brevity:

[quote] My issue with Big Daddy is that we clearly saw him physically attack and kill people in the first half of the season. In the last two episodes, he becomes this spectral metaphor for AIDS. For Ryan Murphy, typically inconsistent and confusing.

If you have actually watched the finale you've seen Big Daddy physically attack countless extras in Gino's montage in the bar. Murphy basically whacked the viewer over the head what Big Daddy was symbolizing the whole season: AIDS killing people.

[quote] Murphy basically whacked the viewer over the head what Big Daddy was symbolizing the whole season: AIDS killing people.

Adding to that, Murphy also included scenes (like Adam arguing with the pathologist over Hannah's cause of death) where friends and family refused to believe that their loved ones died from the virus and / or told others that their loved ones died from something else out of shame and hide the real reason they died (even though by the late 80s everybody knew what was up).

Yeah Big Daddy was AIDS, I especially loved the scene where he threw a bucket of blood on that guy, didn't even have to pretend to shoot him or slit his throat, the blood would be enough to kill him. I love Kraftwerk, I loved this season.

Oh and Hannah was still pregnant, remember she died that weekend. Barbara died that weekend too, in the shower. Remember rapper Eazy E.? Had a cough, went to the hospital, died in two weeks. If the women had the cough for awhile, which I think they had, they could absolutely die that quick. This was the best season besides Murder House, a true horror silently and invisibly stalking people, killing so many they became just nameless, faceless, dead men. Many people seeing it (like the lesbians) but not knowing exactly what it is. Others seeing it and not caring. I don't think he was trying to be shlocky, I hope he was being serious. I teared up at the end. Gino continuing to see Big Dadddy in the bars, in the mirror, the entire newspaper staff all dying and Big Daddy coming and closing the paper forever. I thought it was very powerful and well done.

Oh and a final thought, I know this is a rip-off of The Normal Heart, and It's my party, and Longtime Companion, but that doesn't bother me. The truth is, most people won't see those movies, but many people watch AHS so if they have to get their history from here, it's okay. At least they are getting it somewhere.

R585 Barbara was ill in the first episode when she mentioned a summer cold. Hannah didn't seem ill in the first episodes.

I was glad they explained exactly how Theo died, that made a lot of sense (I don't know from actual medical science, of course).

When I was a kid, there was a show on tv called Neon Genesis Evangelion, some of you may remember it? It sort of ran in a similar way to this, with a standard story and then a surreal two-parter to finish it. So the shift here didn't weird me out at all.

The tone of these final two episodes of AHS was very oppressive - like as a viewer I felt almost like I was trapped in this world too. And that's not a criticism: I thought that was done really well.

Adam is the last one standing. No Big Daddy stalking him in the final scene. In Gino's sequence, Big Daddy was always around waiting and stalking him. Nothing like that with Adam.

Adam may make it to the mid-90s and the better drugs then.

I liked the final moment was just his exhale as he was about to speak and it cut to black.

Precious few of the actors came out looking good in this. Such a bad script.

Patti was the best. Tovey was quite good. The rest…

Adam is the last one standing. No Big Daddy stalking him in the final scene.

Yeah, but he still contracted the disease. He just didn't die from it.

And I'm not sure if that makes his character a positive or a negative, because he was basically the reason the doctor died. He was a sperm donor.

I don't know if I fully understand the message from this season.

On the one hand, it's clear: AIDS is bad, and the government did nothing about it, and there is a conspiracy theory that it was unleashed on gay men through experiments on Plum Island.

Okay, whatever.

On the other hand, there was a message about gay promiscuity, and that's the whole reason behind the spread of the disease, lots of making out, sex in parks, sex in sex clubs, sex in bars, sex on Fire Island. All random, anonymous hookups, contributing to the spread of the disease. And let's not forget the gay serial killer.

So this means what, exactly?

Very mixed messages from this season, and it was just a downer overall.

That's very true, R592. I wasn't sure where it was going with Billie Lourd's last words being that she thought the conspiracy theories might be real.

Two messages I thought I got from it myself were that gay men need to stick together to fight, and we also need to love each other and ourselves more.

I wouldn't be happy with any victim blaming messaging (ie about gay promiscuity; the reality is that we're animals designed to fuck, why is that a bad thing?). Not sure if I felt that in particular, though it did seem to tie sexual practices into trauma a lot, and I never know if that's a real thing or not. I don't think what I get up to sexually results from trauma, but then I'm pretty vanilla, so...

[quote] And I'm not sure if that makes his character a positive or a negative, because he was basically the reason the doctor died. He was a sperm donor.

It was made pretty clear on the show that Adam didn't know that he had the virus when he gave his sperm to her. He didn't intentionally infect her. During the early days, nobody intentionally infected anyone, because nobody knew what was going on. Lots of unfounded theories, then came the scientific studies and papers published in magazines, etc.

[quote] It was made pretty clear on the show that Adam didn't know that he had the virus when he gave his sperm to her. He didn't intentionally infect her.

That doesn't mean viewers still won't blame him for her death.

That's why I think it wasn't such a great storyline.

[quote] That doesn't mean viewers still won't blame him for her death.

[quote] That's why I think it wasn't such a great storyline.

So for you, this is an issue of viewers not being able to comprehend that it was a different time back then? Ok then.

All of these thoughts, all of them are EXACTLY what dealing with Aids was like at that time.

No one knew anything. Then we started to know a few things, most of them contradictory. It took years before we began to have real, trustworthy information. Years

Once it was understood to be sexual, there was a lot of victim shaming and a lot of men refusing to believe it because they couldn't imagine their lives without the casual, easy sex they were used to.

There was anger, confusion, finger-pointing and most of all fear.

My sex education at school started around the time that HIV was no longer a death sentence, just. We were made to watch all these movies about pregnant women with AIDS etc. All the school based education was scary (on the other hand, the education we received from listening to Dr Feelgood on the radio was much more sex-positive, and we kids would tune in every Sunday night). I always thought I was going to catch it. In the mid-00s when living in London, I had sex with one guy who told me later on that he was HIV+. I had a near meltdown, because no one had ever told me how things worked. I went to the clinic, and thought I was behaving outwardly together, and the nurse sent me to the psychologist, haha. Turns out I didn't have it, wasn't in danger of it, but no one every educated us gay kids at the time as to how things were.

I can't even imagine how much scarier it would've been to live through it with even less knowledge of what was going on, and even less caring from society to explain it.

Who was the guy Gino took back to his place and got the bucket of blood dumped on him? He was very goodlooking. For a minute, I thought it was the stool guy with a haircut.

Yeah, I thought he was good looking too, R599. Just someone he picked up in the bar, I guess. Such a sad story.

We've done so well getting through two whole threads on this. There is another, sort of related thread here if people are interested. Otherwise, it's been a pleasure watching this and discussing this with you all. x