Why do some women claim to be lesbian, but still sleep with men?

They end up crashing their cars in Mar Vista.

The power of the DICK

Because it's fun ?

Tongue doesn’t quite work like a nice long dick

Its cheaper than adoption and surrogacy

Because bisexual is taboo among lesbians and met with ridicule and suspicion. Nothing wrong with being bisexual.

R4, clit stimulation is more orgasmic, and of course high end dildos which feel like a real penis . I know the incels hate dildos

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I had a handful of lesbian friends who reached their thirties and eventually decided they wanted all the perks, the ease, the acceptance, of a hetero marriage. These had all been gold-star lesbians. Their relationships with women had been passionate but tipped over into too much drama. Their straight marriages seemed deadly dull. I know I’m oversimplifying but I think I’ve got the gist of things right.

I think R9 got it.

R9 It's fun to make up stuff, isn't it?

R9, do you believe homosexuality is a choice ?

Honey, who cares what they call themselves...

everyone needs a good dick once and a while...or more often, as the case may be...

R4, most women can't even orgasm from penetration. The majority (90%) of nerve endings are actually by the entrance of the vagina, not deep inside like many seem to think.

Homosexuality as in same-sex attraction is not a choice. But who you DECIDE to have sex with or marry IS a choice.

And, yes, both men and women sometimes opt in for what they believe is a more mainstream lifestyle, more acceptable to family and society, and they wish to benefit from that. Not condemning their choice just not naive about it.

There is bi leaning gay . I don’t buy into the Kinsey 6 majority.

R15, that is true

If you sleep with men on purpose, you're not a lesbian. But calling yourself one (and letting men think they've "turned" you) is the simplest way in the world for a woman to "catch a man," particularly one who's out of your league.

They do it because they're closeted. They do it because they haven't come to terms with the fact that they're lesbian. They do it because the man they're with provides security. Those are some reasons.

I beg your pardon, R19, but closeted women don't claim to be lesbians -- hence the term "in the closet," i.e., in secret.

The funniest are the ones who claim that they sleep with men as a form of self harm.

R21 Super funny, since they don't exist

R20, it’s much easier for a woman to pretend to be straight . They don’t have to perform like a man . Broads can get wet with massage and oral . It’s different from gay men . And , yes there are obviously many numerous perks for going straight route .

[quote] If you sleep with men on purpose, you're not a lesbian.

Nope. That is not the deciding factor.

R9 I knew a couple of lesbians who settled down with men when they were nearing middle age. These were the last women I would have expected to go that route. I'm not sure if they were bi all along or just wanted societies approval ( and maybe better finances). Hard to say, your theory is certainly interesting. I've never known a gay man decide to date or marry a woman in middle age unless they were already closeted and wanted to make an aging parent happy.

Like Meredith Baxter Birney

Because they love getting fucked with a real cock

R25 "I knew a couple of lesbians who settled down with men when they were nearing middle age."

Only - you didn't.

Because bisexuality and bi-stigma both exist.

In 1979, Chirlane McCray wrote "I am a Lesbian" for Essence Magazine. In 1994, she marred Bill deBlasio, who went on to be Mayor of New York City.

R12, I was going to respond but then R15 pretty much captured my thoughts in his post. Attraction is not a choice; actions are choices.

To R25’s point, I don’t believe these out lesbians who end up marrying men were bi all along (at least not the women I was referring to). But the poster above who mentioned the differences between gay men and lesbians - or between men and women in general - in terms of sexual performance (i.e., that women don’t have to get hard and so on to have sex) makes a good point.

I also think (again, I get that there are plenty of exceptions) that for many women, the importance of sex in a relationship is less weighty than it is for men and particularly for gay men. For us (gay men), it’s true that sex often tapers off after a while, but most of us expect a strong initial sexual connection.

I haven’t heard the phrase in a while, but when I was in my thirties, lesbian friends talked about lesbian bed death. Yet they didn’t go trolling outside their relationships for sex. If something comparable happens in gay male relationships (and I know it does, but I still think it happen more often for lesbians), invariably one or both gay male partners look for satisfaction elsewhere.

Because they are bisexual OP. Seems pretty obvious.

My friend says she's bisexual, but seems more like a lesbian, IMO. In her 20s and 30s, she did date men, but her more passionate relationships were with women. In her 40s, she met and married a man. I asked her, point-blank, do your coworkers give you more respect, now, that you're with a man? She said yes, they threw her a bridal shower.

Point is: knowing my friend, outside validation of her relationship is important. Being married to a guy made her life easier.

Times are changing. Two woman income is more than sufficient. Homosexuality is more acceptable now than in modern times . We have legal protections. I know the troll self haters will remind me that lgb is still despised and it’s bettter to suffocate in a tiny closet than live our life free and happy

They don't

They call themselves "bi" or "don't like labels" or whatever

Women are way more likely to identify as bi than gay/lesbian

Maybe they identified as lesbian in the past when female bisexuality wasn't as accepted. But now a ton of chicks identify as bi. Only 1% of women identify as lesbian

[quote]I was in a bar in Chicago when I told a close friend of 20 years that, despite being a lesbian, I was marrying a man.

[quote]I know plenty of people who identify as bisexual; I am not. The term simply doesn’t apply. I am not, as a rule, attracted to men. I simply fell in love with this person and didn’t hold his gender against him. That won’t change because of our vows, any more than my eye color will. My fundamental coordinates are unaltered.

How many gay men marry women ? This is another Woman( gay) bashing thread . I don’t get it. Lesbians are not our competition

R38 OP here. This isn't intended to be a bashing thread, I'm just genuinely curious over this social phenomenon. I'm a gay man, and I never heard of an [italic]openly[/italic] gay man marrying a woman.

I am a lesbian, and if I had to get anywhere near a penis, I would literally puke (yes, I said literally, and I meant it). You guys know what I'm talking about, I know you do -- because when people for some bizarre reason post photos of vaginas here on DL, you make that same comment about your disgust with female genitalia. In fact, I used to joke that, if I were digging in a garden and I saw a penis come up out of the dirt, I would beat it to death with my shovel! How straight women (or even gay men) can stand to look at those things, much less touch and crave them, I have no idea.

So I still maintain that if you really are a lesbian, you don't go out of your way to have sex with men. You avoid it at all costs. Otherwise, honey, no matter what you say, you're bi.

All my husbands were gay but still slept with me.

R40 We wanted to take you seriously, but your moronic use of the word "literally" proved you were a liar.

Because they’re sleeping with men who they don’t realize really are lesbians?

R9 Why are you still calling them lesbians? They are obviously bi. Even if at some points in their lives they thought they were gay.

R37 What a bunch of horse shit. Such a special snowflake. "I don't fancy men, but just this one guy is an exception and I am still a lesbian. Well guess what? Even if it's just one guy, you are not a lesbian. Lesbians aren't attracted to men

R28 There are many women that call themselves lesbians, only dated women only to marry men later in life. Obviously they aren't lesbians, but I don't understand why are you so sceptical.

R19 How are women that call themselves gay, closeted? There's a term for what they are, fake lesbians aka fakebians.

R40 You don't have to justify your disgust for penis bby, If i had to get near a vagina I'd cry. Your life, our tastes.

^*your

The same way my fifteen-year-old niece claims to be vegetarian even though she sometimes eats hamburgers.

"political lesbians" often co-opt lesbianism without professing a singular physical attraction to women, if any attraction at all... their reasoning is that it's next level feminism and only true feminists would segregate themselves from men. They're highly critical of lesbian sexuality, same sex (physical) attraction and lesbian culture with numerous opinions on what constitutes acceptable w2w intercourse (some argue that any penetration by foreign objects to tongues and fingers is anti-woman. others go further in suggesting that any sexual response distracts from the higher virtues of womanhood and risks patriarchal "sin"). And, many of prominent figures have ended up marrying men. . . which they justify in absurd and laughable ways as this has continued into this era when said excuses don't hold water.

on the lesser side, you also have rad-fem lite "womanists" the spelling can vary, these are essentially feminists but use this label for varied reasons. Stereotypically, they're the college woman's group that may include actual lesbians and bisexuals but often attract more militant feminist bicurious str8 girls.

of course, you also have the standard political and social trend crowd, and that often plays out like saying their grandmother was an indian princess.. they're both looking to standout as well as have more legitimacy in speaking out on certain issues. . . given onto things like "the progressive stack."

there's something of an irony in how many gays and lesbians initially come out as bi but many bi, initally, come out as lesbian or gay first. . . and bisexuals that have more same sex relationships both tend to identify more closely as gay or lesbian or are identified as such than those that have more opposite sex relationships and hetero socialization. To be fair, they're less a part of both communities than they are outsiders in each. So, it would make sense for them to codeswitch based on what community they're more prominently within.

And sometimes, we run into those conflicts of those that had prior experience with the opposite sex but always were strictly same sex attracted. We would be apt to call them gay or lesbian. Even if many don't believe someone would be capable of having physical relations with the oppostie sex if they truly were... yet one the same token, many don't really believe bisexuals exists either... so, bisexual women are often viewed as str8 as bisexual men are often viewed as gay. "But suck one dick....."

Dunno, but I once had a very butch lesbian employee who insisted that every once in a great while, she just needs a dicking despite her known love of snatch.

This was back in the mid 90s, so this predates all the current multilabel whatever.

For the money and/or family.

r52 "sports" fucking was popular in the 90s... which some theorize as attempting to validate their gender as many people perceive lesbians and gay men as less than their biological sex. And that it's in part, animal-brain competition... to prove their tribal worth than being exiled as an outlier.

Though during the 80s and 90s, there were also many hiv positive gay men and hiv positive lesbians (obviously in lesser numbers) getting involved with hiv positive members of the opposite sex because of stigma of hiv/aids.

Tho, on the sexual note... we are a minority population and so, it is difficult to find people to cater to our sexual needs. For lesbians, this can be more difficult where while there are raunchy sexual avenues, the community as a whole is not as accepting to raw sexuality as it is among gay male culture.

Similarly, it's not uncommon for str8 people, in particular, males to engage in same sex practices depending on availability of accessible females. The hetero female equivalent is often limited to just casually making out.. though some circumstances allow for greater exploration. In both cases, they're usually secure with their hetero identities and don't specifially view the engagement as "gay"

likewise, we see similar attitudes among those gays and lesbians that engage in play with str8 couples.

In college we had what were known as "LUGs": Lesbians Until Graduation. Once they left college, they got married to men and often had children, but forever they insist on referring to themselves as "queer," so they could happily co-opt a minority identity and speak of themselves as being oppressed by heterosexual society (even though for all intents and purposes they function as heterosexuals and have for decades since college).

Now I am told there are such things as "Enbee-Uggs": "Non-Binaries Until Graduation."

The poster who said fakesbians said it all.

As for "lesbians" who marry once they reach middle age, they don't do it just for societal reasons, these are heterosexual women who have been "political lesbians" because of emotional and psychological problems with men which they eventually have overcome. And they might have been experimenting and exploring and it took them longer to find the right guy.

And I completely disagree with the poster who says that it is easier for women to go "straight". On the contrary, I think it would be harder, cause men are sexually more aggressive and demanding and I think that for real lesbian it would be ordeal to start living with a man (not just an odd dicking as someone mentioned) who would drool all over her ask her to spread her legs every night. And a middle aged lesbian, who is not confused and insecure girl anymore! Come on, these are purely straight women.

No social acceptance, security or larger income would make real gay woman who has reached middle age get dick every night. Maybe an insecure closeted young girl could fall into that trap, but these middle aged"lesbians" who got married were just craving cock.

I don't know any lesbians who do this.

R56 They are not heterosexual women, since no hetero woman would have sex with another woman, let alone be in a long term relationships. Those are bi women. Some might think they are gay when they are with women, that's why they call themselves lesbians. Women are a lot more fluid than men.

R53 Or you know, they fall for a guy and want to be with him. It's not 1940s anymore. Women can earn their own money, believe it or not. And can even birth babies without having a husband. Shocking, I know.

R59 I believe that having sex with other women was more a part of their youth exploration or "political lesbianism" than their homosexuality. Hence, they turned into real heterosexual women once they matured.

R61 That still wouldn't make them heterosexual. Hetero women would be repulsed by sex with a woman. Those are bisexuals.

Most of the fakebians aren't political lesbians.

I don't know any lesbians IRL who do this. Bi women, yes. Nothing wrong with bi although there is a element here on DL that thinks this is fiction.

[quote]Why do some women claim to be lesbian, but still sleep with men?

For the dick.

[quote] hetero women would be repulsed by sex with a woman

Hence the bed death.

R66 Hence the bad death being a myth. Also, are you saying that all these lesbians that supposedly have bed death relationships are straight women?

I was joking R67. But I do believe that experimenting at young age, particularly for women, doesn't mean them bisexual. I do believe that most of these ex-lesbians, once they settle down with men, don't have any same sex relationships afterwards. They leave it all behind, because they really don't have the need for sex with women and these relationships in youth were more out of emotional than sexual nature.

[quote]Tongue doesn’t quite work like a nice long dick

It's not supposed to.

He probably wouldn't be interested in her without the lesbian thang.

My partner's sister was married twice and has three children. When in her 40s she fell in love with another woman, and has been living with her for seven years. She doesn't identify as bi or lesbian. Guess she's straight then?

R71 that is onebil ole dyke

[quote]The majority (90%) of nerve endings are actually by the entrance of the vagina, not deep inside like many seem to think.

What? Sexual nerve endings are 99% in the clitoris, a few more in the vulva. Not much of anything in or at the "entrance" of the vagina.

Most straight women function like lesbians in marriages. Sex is a chore for them and they have no attraction to their husbands and stay with them for security and money. This is why so many file for divorce after their kids are grown.

R49 = anti-Shenis bigot throwing her Trans sisters under the bus!

R23 mans really said 'broads'

Many women, after leaving an abusive, violent husband, enter a lesbian relationship for comfort and security.

To the posters saying "to escape the lesbian drama"--have you ever tried cohabiting with a depressed or angry or bitter straight man? It's like living with the world's biggest, meanest, cuntiest toddler.

I’ve never heard of women claiming to be lesbian openly then switch.

On the contrary, I know of someone who was celibate and single for decades to avoid coming out as lesbian, and then she did come out in her 50s and married a woman.

Because they, we, are bisexual and not lesbian. Lots of bisexuals keep it to themselves because when you tell others, they look at you like you're a sick, sex-starved monster. It makes life easier, often, to just acknowledge one and not the other preference.

No real lesbian would ever want to fuck a man. Yeah historically most women were either married off or had to seek marriage for financial security. But since the 1970s in the Western world at least that's not really the case anymore. Women in those relationships who come out as lesbian are simply to acting out what they had to suppress. Just like gay men who married women and had children did in the later 20th century and early 2000s.

The women who identify as lesbians and seek out men in modern times are more likely never lesbian to begin with. They either just preferred women or took the lesbian label for sociopolitical reasons (let's get real here, compared to being a gay man, lesbians aren't perceived as damaging). But that's honestly rare now too because bisexuality is more socially acceptable. Many of those bisexual women or political lesbian types now just call themselves "queer", or "nonbinary." Most women I find who identify as bisexual do not even date or sleep with women.

Some of you need to touch grass and/or look at some content made by and for actual lesbians, because you don't know of what you speak.

Please no more threads about "why" women do anything, unless you're a female. I assume females would not be asking these boring questions.

In a rather stupid movie about lesbians called "Go Fish (the lesbians in it were by and large unattractive and unbearable)" there was one lesbian who was confronted by her angry lesbian friends for having sex with a man. Her explanation was: "it's sex!" So presumably she had sex with a man just to have sex. I don't think she should have been classified as lesbian if she did things like that. Anybody who enjoys sex with both males and females is bisexual.

R44, they may be bi according to the dictionary, but it’s hard to totally account for why people label themselves as they do. AFAIK, none of those women who’d been with women for ages then ended up with men really identified with the “bi” label. Btw, once they married men, their friends just referred to them as “hasbians.” But not to their face.

I believe that it could be that these girls are like vegetarians who refuse to eat meat for ideological reasons (it is very noble of them btw), not because of their actual taste in food. You know that almost every sensitive youth have been vegetarian at some point as students, but most of them goes back to eating meat eventually, cause they crave it. Unlike my mum who has become vegetarian in old age because meat actually disgust her.

So, these girls were lesbians for more ideological reasons than for their actual sexual taste.

I guess lesbians have a lot in common with straight women. Security and resources mire important than love and s x. Also the social stigma of being a Lesbian is quite strong. And no such thing as bi.

[quote] Security and resources mire important than love and s x.

Turns out having the privilege of working nowhere jobs and voting in rigged elections didn’t actually liberate not everyday non-privileged women. It’s still more precarious and dangerous to Exist While Female in a ‘civil society’ (before anyone cites war zones) than it is male. Even in free and ‘safe’ locations and situations, there is so much that women can’t do with ease or things that would be risky, little things men take for granted. It’s a different existence.

[...]

How many of you ACTUALLY know women who openly identified as lesbian and then married men? This sounds like a few rare anecdotes from people who don’t know a lot of lesbians.

I am a lesbian with lesbian and bisexual friends and no lesbian I know has ever dated or married a man after coming out.

R71 She's a bisexual

R79 You never heard of hasbians or fakebians? Where do you live? There are even some among famous women.

R90 A lot. There's even a thread about fake lesbians on LChat. And it's one of the most active threads.

I think shame due to homophobia . And probably turned off by the repugnant radical , raging and fugly lesbians who are so loud

Grownups know there is no such thing as bi. Lots of lesbians and gays like to conform to social norms by getting into opposite sex relationship. Conversion therapy can help convince lesbians to play straight. Some lesbians are repulsed by sex with a man so should not have sex with man but that's what lavender relationships are for.

R95 You are an idiot. And this thread gas nothing to do with lavander relationships.

R94 Why would it be a shame due to homophobia if they were openly gay and proud for years or even for decades, prior to getting with men?

The only reason this thread exists is because OP (and many of you) gets a kick that there are/may be some women who identify as lesbians but must also have men. It's a competition thing, like a middle school thing. Grow up people, this thread isn't even funny.

R98 Bit they are not lesbians. They are bisexuals that call themselves gay while they are in relationships with women. Or sexuality is fluid for them and they aren't attracted to men at earlier years of their lives and then later they become attracted to them. Either way, they aren't lesbians.

SO WHAT? Who the hell besides you gives a fuck, R99?

There is no such thing as bi except as a door to leave closet when you feel like it. Being gay makes you not belong to society. Big time anxiety and social demotion.

Attention

🤔 Because they're Bisexual ?

R100 100+ people that replied in this thread?

R101 You are boring with your "bi doesn't exist" bullshit.

Am technically a bi platinum-star, but I really wish I were straightforward 100% lesbian. Even if I never actually sleep with a man, I'll always have secretly wanted to fuck one or two, and for some reason that makes me feel so disgusted with myself. It's like I have the mind and soul of a lesbian, but the body of a bisexual.

Oh well, at least lesbians still want me for my star status. We golds & plattys are like ultra-rare shiny collectables.

R106 Why are you a platinum star if you like men?

R107 mostly because I have a rather negative social history, so I prefer not to compound the issues with the added unpleasantness dating or fucking men of today, who in my acceptable age bracket are generally not a good prospect, even for nothing more than fucking (idk why--too much p0rn, hormones in the food and water, helicopter parenting, inceldom and the internet 24/7).

Frankly, I dislike straight/bi men and the way they act so entitled. Throughout my youth I was bullied, by male peers and by cousins and my father. Also, my attraction to men is much less pleasant and less prevalent than my attraction to women--very few men are a turn-on to me in the first place, so it's easy to ignore when it does happen. Having a low libido and AvPd makes that a lot easier.

Just trying to keep my life free from elements of controlling or toxic people, and swerving men is how I do it. And before any of you bitches say it, yes, I'm sure the males of the world are equally if not more relieved that I'm taking this attitude.

Stud butch lesbians are threatened by bi women 😛.

R93 I’ve been in LChat threads and they are a nasty toxic place most of the time. Most people hate everyone in there, so it’s no wonder they find excuses to tear down other women in there.

Thankfully LChat isn’t the real world. If it was, lesbians would all be virgins, with no social skills, living in their parents’ basements obsessing over “gold stars” and bemoaning how there are no lesbians in the world and trying to drag everyone down with their depressive thinking.

That is not how I live nor how my lesbian friends live their lives. Thankfully. Too much hate and judgment in the world already.

For the same reason for God knows how many years now: To look sexy / seem kinky and open-minded. Even if they aren’t truly lesbian or even bi. this seems pretty obvious to me.

Meanwhile, even in 2022 if a man says that he’s into guys or thinking about exploring…..

Starting at about 2000, straight women basically HAD to say they were bisexual, or they'd be considered to be a prude. It was all about satisfying straight men's fantasy of watching or participating in girl-on-girl action. Sometimes these women would even kiss each other, but only to put on a show for men. You know they wouldn't want to touch each other if they were alone.

R59: “ Women are a lot more fluid than men.”

Complete horseshite. This isn’t 1997. Obviously there are exceptions and I am going to be generalizing here, but - men on the whole are much more sexual creatures than women. And with all that raw sexual drive I would not be surprised if MEN were more fluid. In fact it seemed many societies up until say 100 years ago expected and basically looked the other way when men fucked each other on the side. It was only viewed as problematic (and or criminal) if that activity wasn’t kept under the wraps or involved more than just sex (ie, a replacement to a heterosexual marriage and family)

R76 "mans?" Are you retarded?

R113, delusional queen

Sorry to trigger you, R115 🙁

R113 You really are delusional, as someone already said. There's a reason why bisexual women make the majority of LGBT community. There's a reason why terms like hasbians, fakebians, LUGs (lesbians until graduation) exist. There are no versions of those terms for gay man. There's a reason why terms like late bloomers and later in life lesbians exist. Just because men are more obsessed sex doesn't mean they are more sexually fluid.

R110 Just because there are crazy people on LChat doesn't mean that hasbians are few rare anecdotes, like you said. There are so many women on social media that call themselves gay only to date men later, so many "lesbian" YouTubers that are no longer "lesbians". There's a good reason why those LChaters are concerned. I can think off the top of my head of dozens of fake lesbians among models, actresses etc.

My colleague is a lesbian, but now has a boyfriend. Good dick is hard to give up once you try it.

Bisexuality does exist, so it's stupid for so many people to insist that it doesn't. However, there are relatively few bisexuals who rank as Kinsey 3, equal opportunity both ways. Most have a primary and secondary preference.

R117 : “ There's a reason why terms like late bloomers and later in life lesbians exist. Just because men are more obsessed sex doesn't mean they are more sexually fluid.”

You’re the dipshit lesbian who made the claim from the get-go that women are “much more sexually fluid” than men. Now go ahead and prove that with evidence accounting for the very obvious stigma that most societies still have against male bisexuality / homosexuality (while being more permissive / less reactionary toward women for the same). We’ll wait.

^ and to add to that, delusional lesbian at r117, help us understand why even in 2022 the majority of men who have sexual encounters with men don’t identify with the labels “gay” or “bisexual”?

they want babies, usually

R120 I seem to be the only one saying it does not exist. There is so much denial about being gay that I think these so called bisexuals are simply delusional.

A more interesting question is, how many lesbians are horrified by idea of having sex with a man. How horrible is it for lesbian to have sex with man. Also, how horrible is it for gay man to have sex with woman, ignoring performance anxiety

[quote] I can think off the top of my head of dozens of fake lesbians among models, actresses etc.

That’s called savvy career opportunism, ‘playing the game’. Nothing to do with real orientation or preference. cf. R111,

I have seen other posts at DL exclaiming how bi isn't a real thing. Denial is a strange thing: I follow one YouTuber who identifies very much as straight, but declares himself "a mapslut" and addresses at times his audience as "you bitches"; he has mentioned that he once had a server job where a group of gay men were (apparently) showing "unwanted" attention to him, but I wonder about signals he may have been giving off?

R121 You fucking moron, I'm not a lesbian nor a woman. There have been studies made which show that women that call themselves straight get turn on by videos and photos of naked women while straight men don't get turn on by other men. If women are not more sexually fluid then why does every poll about sexuality shows that gay men outnumber gay women, while bi women outnumber bi men? Why are there so many women in their 30s, 40s, 50s realizing that they are into women and leaving their husbands for women, while there aren't that many men that realize they like men past their 20s? Why are there so many women that call themselves gay/lesbians in their 20s and 30s, only to end up married to men later in life, while I don't know a single case of a guy calling himself gay in his youth and then ending up with a woman (apart from men that go back into the closet)?

[quote] Why are there so many women in their 30s, 40s, 50s realizing that they are into women and leaving their husbands for women?

Older men are awful and entitled and smell like goats, don’t know if you’ve heard.

R124 Why would bisexuals be delusional? What is so hard to understand about bisexuality and being attracted to both sexes? So a person tells you that they are gay and your response would be: no, you're not, I know your sexuality better than you do?

What I see more often is the opposite: straight women coming out as gay in their 30s, 40s and later. Their kids are less dependent on them, and their parents are dead. They no longer feel obligated to toe society's line for anyone. (Or they suddenly fall for a woman so hard, the need to be with her is overwhelming, more important than maintaining a facade of being straight.)

One of these women noted that culturally, she was glad to "discover" that she was a lesbian when she was in her 40s. In the straight world, men her age would have sought out women 20 years younger than her. But women appreciated her for more than her looks, regardless of her age.

Dear fucking retarded lesbian at r127: did you miss that entire part about SOCIETAL STIGMA against male bisexuality and homosexuality? Given that continued stigma, it shouldn’t be shocking whatsoever that comparatively fewer men would self-identify as bi or homo at any points in their lives, compared to women. The closet even in 2022 contains many, many more men than it does women. I’m sorry you are too stupid to understand this.

“By contrast, men’s interest in hooking up with fictitious others remained stable with each drink when that fictitious other was a female. (In other words, alcohol had an insignificant effect upon a male’s willingness to sleep with a woman. They wanted to do so just as eagerly, regardless of their sobriety level.) Men’s willingness to experiment with another male sitting at the bar, however, was responsive to alcohol: The more the men in the study drank, the more open they became to having some type of sexual encounter with a man. Keep in mind that, like the women in this study, every male participant had identified as heterosexual.

The researchers believe that alcohol may loosen the constraints some men place on themselves that, when sober, enable them to conform to the sexual scripts they associate with traditional masculinity.

Such a propensity to explore options outside the straight and narrow may also increase over time; other research suggests that men’s attraction to same-sex partners rises with age. (Interestingly, the study observing this trend also found that women’s sexual interest in same-sex partners decreases with age, albeit only slightly.)

The takeaway of this study: Men’s sexuality isn’t necessarily as rigid as we may think. Nor does one’s stated sexual orientation determine or fix who and what one is attracted to, especially when alcohol is involved.”

“But male and female sexual fluidity are expressed in ways that may not yet be showing up on paper. If a guy marks a box on a survey saying, yes, I’ve been attracted to another man, or, yes, I’ve had sex with another man in the past year, it may not be at all the same thing as when a woman checks the same box. There’s a big difference between sex with an emotional bond and a quick 5-minute casual sex encounter.

By culture and biology, men are pushed into limited modes of sexual and tenderness expression. Straight women can touch, hold hands, kiss in greeting, even lie in each other’s arms without being vilified or (for the most part) misconstrued as lesbian or bisexual. By contrast, little boys are rigidly de-feminized, discouraged from being affectionate with each other from the time they are about eight years old. While this may be changing, open-minded parenting with regards to gender behavior is far from the current norm. In essence, men, under threat of physical violence and ridicule, learn to compartmentalize tenderness, sex, and love.

Plenty of research exists suggesting that, in general, men are big on objectification and separating sex from feelings. Whereas, a fluid woman (tenderness-entitled) might say, “It’s not the gender, it’s the person.” The fluid man (tenderness-repressed, but sexuality-entitled) might say, “Hey, if it feels good, I’m going to go for it.”

This corresponds to Diamond’s data analysis suggesting that while more women in general tend to report being bisexual, men who consider themselves exclusively-straight, while half as likely to report a same-sex attraction than their exclusively-straight female counterparts, have been shown to be more than four times as likely to get it on with a same-sex partner.

This reminds me of the old Billy Crystal joke: “Women need a reason to have sex, men just need a place!””

For the people who keep using that infamous physiological arousal study to claim that women can’t be gay, or are bisexual more often, etc.: arousal isn’t just physiological, it’s also psychological. Stigma can absolutely affect how we experience and express arousal and attraction, which are two separate things. Stop being so reductionistic.

There are probably way more bisexual men than will admit it, so I actually doubt that bisexual women outnumber bisexual men.

Sexuality is still influenced by stigma even today.

R131 Dear retarded child, did you miss the part where I said I wasn't a lesbian? Are you braindead? So your only "proof" of men being more sexually fluid is: "men are obsessed with fucking, so it's only logical that they would be the ones that are more fluid since they want to fuck everyone and everything". And when confronted with proven facts, your defense is "oh, but stigma, the STIGMA" Do you even live in the real world? Get the fuck out of here.

R134 No poster so far said that women can't be gay. So wtf are you talking about?

R135, if you’re not a lesbian, then you must be some flaming homo who came running out of the closet at a young age, because you were pegged from a very young age. I really don’t understand what’s so difficult to understand about this. A boy or man who expresses any inclination to experiment with the same sex faces comparatively much harsher judgment, risk and the prospect of violence. If you don’t think this affects the way someone self identifies, then you’re just plain retarded. As for evidence, I just posted 2 links above.

I agree R137, there is a big difference in how men and women identify themselves. There are so many "straight" men fuckin othere men on the down low. The more homophobic and conservative the society is the more of it happens. Afro Americans, Arabs, the most fervent Catholic communities, just as Catholic clergy. There are so many same sex attracted men who insist on being called straight.

There are closeted lesbians too, but some other phenomena happens more frequently, at least in western world. Women, who are sexually attracted to men identify as lesbians because they seek emotional refugee in other women. Some of them are not even really sexually attracted to women, but they seek emotional connection that they believe they can't have with men. Some want to escape patriarchal oppression, some had bad experiences. Some just can't connect with guys. You must know that women had much worse experience with male family members than men with female.

I honestly believe that women are sexually less fluid than men, but are more open about it.

R129 a lot of gay men are horrified about being gay and go into denial. Some even become serial killers. I think these guys test bi in experiments. Investigate placebo effect. In my experience, bi just means that the guy has trained himself to have an erection during sex with a woman but only falls in love with men. They are with women to be a real man and to please family and society. I don't see a lot of heterosexual porn on this site to accommodate all the bi's.

R130 lesbians who never have s x with man don't reproduce. Gay is quite genetic. There is evolutionary pressure on these lesbians to at least put out during their reproductive years. Evolution doesn't care much what they do as hags as long as they look after their kids.

You know R140 I've never considered that angle before, that most lesbians don't pass on their genes, and that it's only recently become feasible for them to do so. Wonder if that accounts partially for their very low population.

R138 nobody is fluid but if there was fluidity, it would be women. Women pretend to be fluid to turn guys on. They also say there uncle molested them because it turns on guys. Apologize for a horrible post.

They're just looking for the status of being edgy.

R137 You really are an idiot.

R140 There no such thing as a gay gene.

R139 Or they are simply busexual, and are attracted to both sexes. How about that? Plus, we are talking about women here, not men.

R50, I know so many "vegetarians" who still eat chicken, fish etc. They just don't eat the "cute" animals.

Come to think of it, I guess that's why, when I was a vegetarian for several years, people would always suggest chicken or fish and then look confused when I reminded them I was a vegetarian.

^Fur burgers are so delicious, once you have one you can never give them up

R140, we're not feral cats. For humans, the pressure to reproduce is more societal than evolutionary.

Why do you say homosexuality is "genetic"? Even if every gay person disappeared from the planet today, straight people would still yield offspring that turn out gay.

The pressure to reproduce is far more evolutionary than you think, at least with women. I know women who never felt a single desire to have kids until their clock started winding down and then the desire came at a fever pitch. In both cases, they didn't do it and felt relieved they never forced it to happen but they were very surprised they got those feelings at all.

Please, you are either attracted to a male body or a fe male body,not both.

Self-labeling doesn’t always capture the reality, as we know from men who have sex with men on the down low but say they’re straight.

R151 Yeah, sure. You can only like beer or wine, not both. You can only like dark chocolate or white chocolate, not both. And so on..

R153 sexuality goes in one direction or the other. You can't be hot and cold at same time. Why do u think conversion therapy works so well.

R151 - that's what I meant earlier about most bisexuals having a primary and secondary preference. I'd say the Hasbian phenomenon are females who are open-minded male-attracted. I suppose, though it sounds wierd writing it, similar to straight actors who do (perform in) bi/gay porn without getting all conflicted about it.

Why older/more mature bisexuals or bicurious women move in with girlfriends rather than remarry or partner a man again...

R156 oh no not her again. Always complaining. Her looks are still great but her personality is off putting. Why did she spend so many years with the cars guy? I can understand if he was a nice guy ( women aren't as looks oriented as men) but evidently that was not the case.

R153 "sexuality goes in one direction or the other" Says you, who knows nothing about sexuality.

R157 who is she? And what's so awful about her personality?

Exactly, r138. Moronic idiots like r135 / r144 are stuck in the 90s with this antiquated and increasingly disproven idea of women being “more sexually fluid” than men and can’t seem to fathom the notion that men and women self-identify in different ways and for different reasons. Id like idiots like this to explain why there is still a phenomenon of “men on the DL” with basically no equivalent for women? (Not to dismiss the idea that there are women who are or feel they must stay closeted - I just mean this on a macro level)

For reasons both biological and cultural, women are highly selective and self-protective, men less so. That literally answers every question this topic raises.

R158 male and female us mutually exclusive. You can't be attracted to a penis and a vagina at same time.

R162 I feel the same. Bisexuality is really a strange concept to me.

R4 Hey dumbass, gay women don't crave dick. If they do, they ain't gay. Just like gay men, we don't crave pussy.

A lot of women seem to have this low-key lesbian thing that they never really act on.

I know a woman who thought she was gay because she never orgasmed by dick. Then she hooked up with some lesbians and didn't orgasm with them either.

She finally found a big dick that did it for her. Maybe she could have found a woman who did it for her too.

Most women are more sexually fluid than men. Even women who are basically straight are typically more open to fooling around with other women than straight guys are to gay stuff.

Being non-straight has more cache in current culture, especially on social media. They get to “come out,” to “speak their truth,” then any time some rightwing Neanderthals do something discriminatory against actual gays, they get to jump on the bandwagon of the oppressed and state their indignation to anyone who will listen. So brave, so tragic!

Once the value of performative gayness wears off, it’s back to the dick and a house in the suburbs.

R166 That's bizarre because the majority of women don't orgasm by just dick either - they need clitoral stimulation. It sounds as if what really happened is that she found someone she found hot enough.

R162 "You can't be attracted to a penis and a vagina at same time" In the history of retarded statements, this one's gotta be up there, at the very top.

R167 Careful, you are going to anger the "men are more sexually fluid than women cause men are more obsessed with sex" troll.

There have been and still are tons of gay men who have sex with their wives and girlfriends.

R171 They are bi.

R172 Technically yes, but if they had a true choice (no taboo, pressure from family) they wouldn't choose to.

R172 no! They have learned to think of men while having sex with wife.

[...]

R175 funny how no one on datalounge ever says they are bisexual. We need some naked ladies posted to please those bisexuals u keep claiming exist. Never seen someone post saying they cant choose between man and woman.

[...]

[...]

BTW, in my (let's see) fifty years (Jesus, I'm old!) of being an out lesbian, I have never met a woman who "claimed to be a lesbian" who slept with men. I've known a few surreptitious bi women who threw themselves at me (because I would never knowingly sleep with a woman who's bi) and others who claim to be bi (but who knows), and I've met plenty of straight men who hit on me claiming to be "a lesbian trapped in a man's body" (they actually think that's a great lesbian pick-up line); but never have a known a lesbian who chooses to sleep with men.

I suppose there are lesbian prostitutes who sleep with men for money, though -- but I've never met one.

[...]

R166, no women orgasm by dick. Women orgasm via clit, dick has nothing to do with it. If you're telling the truth, the female is lying to you.

Let's be honest: plenty of women can orgasm by dick. They just need one big enough to hit the right spots and someone who has the right rhythm when stroking.

The latest data I saw said 62% of women have never had an orgasm from sexual intercourse. This was from an academic study of sex I was required to read for a survey research class in grad school. It was big, thick book, F2F surveys, everything completely anonymous and questions printed on cards that were answered and then deposited in envelopes by the respondent. That was back in the 90s.

Anybody know of anything more recent?

Once women find good dick, they don't go back. Scissoring doesn't quite cut it anymore.

R184 does the same apply on men? Once a bi guy finds a good dick he never goes back?

R179 The first "lesbian" playmate, the first openly "lesbian" Miss Universe competitor, Amber Heard, Chirlane McCray (Bill de Blasio wife), a couple of women from The Real L Word, Clementine Ford (Cybill Shepherd's daughter), Cleo Kinnaman (Joel Kinnaman's ex wife)

[quote]Let's be honest: plenty of women can orgasm by dick.

Education from gay guy who's never been near a naked woman

Knoxville, TN video: Extreme rage/jealousy on display when lesbian finds out her partner cheated on her with a man. Destroys their residence and police are called.

Women have to find what works for them. It's a trial and error process.

Men come will come in a goats ass. Not exactly known for being selective or particular.

R167, well, ya, most women are also much more open about talking about those things (ie experimenting with the same sex) than men are, for obvious reasons. That openness to discuss and perhaps self-identify a certain way doesn’t mean that women are inherently more “sexually fluid” then men are.

R189, the female orgasm is very simple. Straight men make it very complicated.

R183 One recent study published in the Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy found that only 18% of women orgasm from penetration alone. Either way, the bottom line is that the majority of women do not have an orgasm from penetration and need clitoral stimulation.

It's because only about 18% of men are super hot with buff bodies.

There's a phenomenon of late in life women leaving their husbands to date women too so maybe it evens out.

I'll say it again, it is not that women are more fluid, but it is much rarer that female homosexuality is as pure as male. Many women seek these relationships for emotional reasons and for comfort and are not as imune to male charms as avarage gay man is to female.

Even the lesbian cinematographer Lisa Cholodenko has put a story of lesbian cheating her wife with a man in Kids are alright.

R179 In your 50 years you never came across bi women that called themselves gay while they were in a same sex relationships? That is hard for me to believe.

Sometimes, it can just start with an innocent game of basketball with your homies.

Why do lesbians sleep with men? Here are three reasons:

For money.

To stay closeted.

Becasue it's sex; so what if it's with a man? It's sex!

R40 wrote:

[quote]So I still maintain that if you really are a lesbian, you don't go out of your way to have sex with men. You avoid it at all costs. Otherwise, honey, no matter what you say, you're bi.

So according to r40, lesbian is defined by whether you feel about men the way r40 feels about men.

People identify themselves so many different ways. Many of the writers here, for example, call themselves lesbian despite not being exclusively attracted to women. What do words mean when they don't have fixed meanings anymore?

Bi women always call themselves lesbian. Like those fake gays (bi).

I don't believe there is a genuine phenomenon with actual lesbians switching to men.

We all know there is a big problem with (mostly but not exclusively) middle class white girls and women who love collecting and wearing oppressed identities for social credit, especially in college settings and hyper progressive circles. This involves being fake lesbian, fake "queer", and lately fake trans. As well as numerous examples of race faking, typically claiming indigenous ancestry but also sometimes Black identities.

It's a modern social plague.