HOUSE OF THE DRAGON, 9/19/22: "We Light the Way."

House a da Dragon.

Game a Thrones!

Finally: gayness!

More like House of Soap Suds!

Rhaenyra's Wall of Braids atop her head is so stupid looking.

The king's little cough reminds me of the little ominous cough Carol Burnett used to do in her "Love Story" parody.

So is Daemon impotent?

No, he could get it up for Miserya his brothel bitch.

So far, this show seems to be staying away from the magical/mystical aspects that GOT had, like the Man of Many Faces that taught Arya how to be an assassin. No Melisandre with her smoke babies and fire magic. No giants like Won Won or the Lord of Light, Ice King or 3-Eyed Raven, etc.

So far, I'm not missing any of that stuff.

I'm going to miss Paddy Considine. He did a great job.

I assumed that PC died at the end, but then I see him in next weeks preview. My bad.

So…time jump next week?

Paddy Considine plays King Viserys, and that character is still around next week.

Lord Corlys’ daughter is so beautiful

It looks Viserys lives for years more. Crazy because he looks like he's at death's door already.

How is Ser Criston that naïve? As if Rhaenyra would run away with him so they could go be boat urchins. And that mental break was truly insane! Poor Laenor.

Most of the magic was driven out of Westeros. When the First men came to Westeros, the Three Eyed Raven and the Children went underground; the giants and the ice spiders and the White Walkers were all driven north of the Wall.

Most of the magic (and magical creatures) are on the other continent of Essos. All the magic that came to Westeros on GoT besides what was listed above either occurred in Essos (the evil sorceress who killed Khal Drogo, Pyat Pree and the House of the Undying in Qarth) or was imported from Essos to Westeros (Melisandre and her magic from Asshai, the dragons from Old Valyria).

So far no guys as good looking beautiful Viserys Targaryen from Game of Thrones. Swooooon!

I think both the actors who play Laenor and Ser Criston Cole are better looking, r16.

Ser Criston did not die this episode, did he?

Agreed 100%, r17. Both men are absolutely gorgeous. No Queen or princess in game of thrones was surrounded by this many hot men, and we haven’t even made it to the episode when she starts to have sex with the man who gives her children. And yes, r18…Criston is dead.

Criston's not dead. The Queen interrupted his suicide.

I thought Viserys from GoT was ugly

Yep r11, the next episode picks up about 10 years later. You see the adult version of Rhaenyra and Alicent in the previews, and some looks at Rhaenyra's children.

That Criston could kill someone in the middle of the Royal Wedding and just walk out without being detained and questioned....is a stretch. I know they wanted the ending with Alicent stopping him from committing suicide but that final sequence didn't sit right with me.

I know it was around ~3 years or so since we last saw her but man the show had her age a lot r11.

That was for *R13

My favrite caracter is Ser Sir!

That gay bitch deserved that beat down.

....

Thought the hot knight was so sexy... and then the episode ends with him just flipping out for no good reason and gay bashing and killing the 'fag', and suddenly I'm not attracted to him and not really feeling the series anymore.

What a fucking stupid turn of events. And he's just allowed to walk out of there after murdering an innocent man in the middle of a wedding celebration?

The gay bitch taunted and insulted him. He was triggered.

I also like Ser Loin!

I didn't perceive it as either insulting or taunting... it was a simple declaration that they were both in the same shoes, and they both needed to keep the secret.

I would have thought he'd be relieved that his lover was marrying a gay guy and he had nothing to worry about.

Basically he turned out to be nothing but a complete and total asshole.

Excepting importantly Jaime Lannister in "Game of Thrones" 9who was a shit from the very beginning), most of the knights who take the vow of chastity to join the King's Watch take the oath VERY seriously. Last episode Ser Christon broke that oath, which had seriously discombobulated him; moreover, he did so by despoiling the king's virgin heir, which is a crime against the king. So he was seriously upset and agitated, and he has no family. He finally decided to come clean to the Queen when Rhaenyra refused his offer to marry her, and he was expecting as a result either to be gelded, tortured, and sent to the Wall OR (if she was merciful) to be merely immediately put to death. She ordered neither result, for reasons he could not fathom, and so he came to the wedding even more unsettled and despondent. Plus, he's clearly still deeply in love with Rhaenyra.

Ser Joffrey's waving of his knowledge of Ser Criston's sexual relationship with Rhaenyra set Ser Criston completely over the edge. he beat him to death (something that happens frequently in this world when one knight insults another), but he was willing to die for the chance to kill Ser Joffrey.

I still don;t understand how Ser Criston was able to get to the Godswood without being apprehended by the other members of the King's Guard, although i suppose they might have been securing the safety of the other members of the royal family before they went after him. But it looked like Queen Alicent likely prevented any of the other members of the King's Guard from following him into the Godswood, where she stopped him from killing himself.

Kept expecting the band to break out some Bowie

Even CNN is reporting that people are upset they introduced a gay character and then he was brutally killed.

Another Joffrey? Yum.

That has got to be one of the shortest-lived gay romances ever. In the books it was supposed to be a jousting accident, meaning the writers sat around a table and decided that a graphic gay bashing where the murderer somehow manages to get away with it would make for better TV lol. Laenor does find a new lover (Iranian pinga if you check the casting) later on in the story, so I guess they figured that would make up for it.

Farewell Milly and Emily!

Ser Criston flipped out because he held his oaths very dearly and he had broken them for basically nothing but lust and not to be killed or tortured (she holds that power over him). He askes Rhaenrya to run away with him because at least then he can think of what happened as romance, love which is a virtue as great as honor, by turning him down Rhaenrya squashed that plan. Then Alicent confronts him and he thinks he's going to die...but she just sends him away; did he get away with it, or is it a stay of execution? Does he even feel it is right for him to get away with committing a crime? Then at the party he has this guy he doesn't know telling him he knows all about his greatest shame. Joffrey was trying to assure him that his secret is safe, but in Criston's head he is being taunted about being "a whore" as he put it. So he just goes KABOOM!

It was no accident r37. Howver in the book Criston murders him during one of the tourneys that take place during the ceremony. Which did make more sense because it is easier to get away killing someone during a tourney than a dinner. However in both cases he was killed by Criston during the wedding festivities.

And just because he is sexy does not make him a good guy r29.

I did interpret Christon’s action that way as well, R40. A Knight’s honor and all that. I was looking forward to how the relationship between the King consort and his lover would have played out in Court intrigue, though.

So the Princess’s first born will have dark curly hair. That’s where we’re headed, right?

^^I should explain that I don’t think the Princess drank the special tea. To do so would’ve revealed her guilt. And the Queen knows about Christon, so she will also know her son has a strong claim to the throne. Hijinks ahead.

Was it implied that the gay guy swiped his hand across Ser Crisco’s crotch? It was a weird camera angle.

[quote]So the Princess’s first born will have dark curly hair. That’s where we’re headed, right?

Don't ask for spoilers from the book. Read the book if you want to be spoiled.

[R44] I thought that as well actually

I got the name of the Sea Snake's house wrong. They are the Velaryons--sorry.

He did not insult him at all r30. Joffrey was being a little stupid but all he said to Criston was we are in this together and have to make sure we keep each other's secrets as the Royal fuck buddies. Criston flopped out because that is the fragile mental state he was in.

But I am not surprised to find blatant homophobia on the DL....

Cristin didn’t kill Joffrey because he was gay, for fucks sake. I kind of find his insane cunt struckness hot. I wish someone would go crazy and kill people for me.

[quote] But I am not surprised to find blatant homophobia on the DL....

BLATANT? Oh please, Mary. There was no blatant homophobia in r46's post.

This is not reddit. We do not play woke little Oppression Olympics power games here.

Another instance where gay love is supposed to be made more honourable through the death of one partner. Meanwhile, the straight gay basher gets a reprieve.

The guy with the bum leg is cute, but he mumbles like hell. His scene with Alicent was almost comical in that regard. The actor is a theatre brat, so why doesn't he project more?

This show is so talky, when are we gonna see some action?

I like the whole Sea Snake family.

I was very confused by the fight sight, I’m not sure what the point was of making it go on for so long without any view of what was actually occurring.

This series overall has really odd stage direction.

One of the best book to show changes has been establishing Allicent and Rhaenyra as estranged friends. In the books there’s an age difference and they don’t have much of a relationship. But I love the fact the show has Rhaenyra taking advantage of Allicent’s naivety before Allicent turns the tables.

The only thing that didn’t quite work in the last episode was Criston killing Goffrey. In the books, it happens during joust that was part of the festivities (with Criston’s trusty mace). A member of the King’s Guard randomly attack someone before anyone intervenes doesn’t make as much sense.

[quote] I was very confused by the fight sight, I’m not sure what the point was of making it go on for so long without any view of what was actually occurring.

You were supposed to be taking it in from the King and Rhaenyra's POV--they had no idea at first who was fighting nor why.

This was supposed to be a very peaceful and celebratory wedding, but like almost every single big wedding from the original GoT series (The Gold Wedding of Sansa Stark and Tyrion Lannister, the Red Wedding of Edmure Tully and Roslin Frey, and the Purple Wedding of King Joffrey and Margaery Tyrell), this ended in disaster.

I'm sorry. I am trying. I Really am. And I will finish the series. But something is missing. This is not fresh or grand or magical and mysterious. Dragons? That crab monster guy from the sandstones? Meh. And I love Matt Smith but I do not like him as a blonde. He looks like a fucking albino. As does his niece. I think this was her last appearance. in #6 there's a time jump and another actress plays her.

R54 What happened or who died at Tyrion Lannister and Sansa Stark's wedding? I forgot.

[quote]magical and mysterious.

Honestly I would not describe this story as magical or mysterious. It's a story about a Targaryen Civil War, there is no magical zombie mystery from beyond that needs to be defeated.

Might not be for everyone, that's okay, no show is for everyone.

This show is a lot different than GoT because it only has a few characters when GoT had dozens upon dozens. Too many to fit them all in one episode, so sometimes you had to wait a few weeks for some characters to appear again.

I'd be concerned for my safety with a protector as stupid as Criston. Bitch needs to be fired !

Yeah, I think the dragons are practically useless in this story except as justification for the ruling family. They haven't really been used for drama, just for punctuation. That seems like a waste of a fantastical element.

I basically understood the killing to be Criston's reaction to Joffrey telling Criston "I know your secret." Criston freaked out over having been made to violate his oath of chastity, and he did expect to effectively lose his life for it. He's rather naive. He told the queen and made it all about him, and her only concern was the princess fucking around. But I get why he lost it.

I am still annoyed. Game of Thrones introduced semi-graphic, semi-normalized gay characters and relations—and then swiftly destroyed all of them. And here we go again. I really dislike it. I know Martin wrote his books decades ago and maybe "tragic beautiful homo" at one point was a progressive trope, but it seems consistent across his stories that gay men are introduced just to be murdered, and lesbians are introduced and kept around to titillate men.

Many fantasy writers had no gay characters in their works r60. Martin is honestly notable just for remembering that gay men do exist.

It would have made more sense to go with the tourney death. Maybe the writers felt the need to condense things and move the story along but now an important character has acted with no clear motivation, which is annoying and frustrating - and introduces a really unpleasant element of violent homophobia. We’ve had one Red Wedding- we didn’t need a repeat.

The cute gay couple lasted all of half an episode... this show is homophobic!!

It also seems redundant. That's how the Dornish guy was killed in Game of Thrones, with his face bashed in to a pulp by the Mountain. The writers were probably going for some kind of mirror image thing, but it seems like an unoriginal killing, and jousting would have been unique to this series.

Will there be gay dragons?

[quote] [R54] What happened or who died at Tyrion Lannister and Sansa Stark's wedding? I forgot.

It was a terrible wedding because neither Tyrion nor Sansa wanted to get married to each other (they were forced to do so by Joffrey in order to humiliate them), and it was announced right beforehand that Tyrion's sister Cersei was going to marry Loras Tyrell, which made Loras and his sister Margaery really depressed since she was betrothed to Cersei's son Joffrey... prompting this memorable monologue from their grandmother Olenna (the Queen of Thorns) about the many ways in which the siblings will become related to one another.

This may still be the funniest sick scene from GoT:

[quote] The writers were probably going for some kind of mirror image thing, but it seems like an unoriginal killing, and jousting would have been unique to this series.

They already had a jousting death in the first episode of "House of the Dragon," which featured an extensive jousting tournament.

And there was also a jousting tournament in the first season of "Game of Thrones" which ended with horrible violence (i.e. the Mountain slicing off the head of his horse when he lost a tilt).

[quote]Will there be gay dragons?

Yes, and you'll know because they'll listen to Barbra Streisand and talk to each other in the Dragonpit about what a shame it was her remake of "Gypsy" never was mounted.

There will be many more characters involved in the story after this episode, particularly on the Hightower side.

These first five episodes were just setting things up for the power struggle over succession to the Iron Throne that will really get going next episode.

We need more characters like Lady Olenna - witty and bitchy. Sea Snake has potential but he’s too ambitious.

The killing at the wedding scene was disappointing in so many ways. I hate having a plot driven by people doing stupid things, but I was also taken aback by everyone standing around like horrified subway riders watching Criston pulverize Goffrey. Really? No guards there? No one from Goffrey’s family felt like intervening?

THose dragons in game of thrones were a source of anticipation and wonder. Dany gets the dragon eggs as a wedding gift. She places them in a heated incubator. And watches them. Meanwhile we see red comets in the sky. and all kinds of talk about magic things beginning with Old Nan telling Bran scary stories about the Long Night etc. We can assume that in the beginning, aside from Ned having a Bastard, life at Winterfell was normal, it was good. THen Robert visits with Cersei, Jaimeie and Joffrey, and gradually everyone's life changes. And across the sea, Dany is watching those eggs. Season 1 ends with her stepping into a fire and not burning and coming out of it with three baby dragons. And every season we watch them grow. For me GoT will always be the main story. As a source of curiosity, House of Dragons is OK. But it just lacks something. OK kill me. For example. I love The Godfather movie. They tell me Godfather Part II is coming out. I'm curious I loved bthe characters in Part I. So I watch it. And I loved it. They wove together the story of Michael as Don together with the story of Vito Corleone before he was a Don, how he became a Don. It was a story about the history of a family.

Sir Creston is so dislikable now to me, he murdered a gay man for something so silly and gets away with it, it seemed joffrey was only trying to clue him in that he's in on it and the triggered str8 can't handle rejection well so he did what typical str8 men do and murder. I hope we don't see the same actor again.

R73, he’s not going anywhere. And sadly, his actions on the show add context as to why he became the person he is in the book

R74 So everyone looks the same except the two leads who got replaced? Makes sense.

George RR Martin is 74 and at the early edge of Boomers. No surprise that someone from that generation would constantly use the bury your gays trope…but to be fair, he eventually buries most of his characters. He looked tkt he fates of Edward II and his favourite Piers Gaveston from real history. He probably fancies himself progressive for even writing gays in, and he’s not really wrong about that if you look at the entire breadth of mainstream works from historical fantasy and sci-fi genres. Renly and Loras also bit the dust of course, but they were at least given a bit more screen time together. From the books, the character that bothers me the most is Kerwin, the effeminate maester captured by the Iron Fleet then repeatedly raped on the ship and finally murdered.

Martin and the genre have clear types.

Gay men get a little action, get a little too comfortable with themselves and immediately get murdered.

Weasley scrawny little men who simper and fret are only there to be sacrificed to bad guys.

Gruff men who are bullies get whacked after inflicting a lot of harm.

Bold women get killed but are remembered positively as brave and virtuous.

Delicate, beautiful women get beaten and serially raped but end up being admired for being survivors.

Marginalized outcast virtuous underdog dudes end up being positioned as the heroes, although more flawed than the serially raped women who stand beside them.

[quote] Bold women get killed but are remembered positively as brave and virtuous.

To be clear, this I project this to be the fate of Rhanerya, as it was her mother.

[quote] Delicate, beautiful women get beaten and serially raped but end up being admired for being survivors.

And Allicent's fate.

[quote] Gruff men who are bullies get whacked after inflicting a lot of harm.

Daemon and newly turned badguy sexy-guardsman.

[quote] Marginalized outcast virtuous underdog dudes end up being positioned as the heroes

Since the king has been denied glory of war hero in his mind and he is fated to be long diseased, I'm lumping him into this character type. He's the Jon Snow of this world, bearing the weight of the world on his shoulders and doing his duty without compromise despite feeling perpetually put upon.

And so I am guessing his son is going to be one of the little weak weasles, akin to Joffrey Lannister, who will wreak havoc and then be his own demise.

Having the gay guy killed in a joust would have worked better, but they probably blew their budget on the wedding set.

Rhaenyra looks like Kendra Wilkinson from Playboy's Girls Next Door. Not a good thing.

I was out after the second episode. Just NOT doing it for me. Maybe because of the lack of characters and focus on one family (YAWN) Did it get any better? I do love Matt Smith.

R81 I found episode 4 to be awesome, but 5 has left me cold. I’ll stick It out though. Matt Smith is fantastic imo.

I hate Rhaenyra's overbite. Thankfully, she will have grown older in the next episode.

Of course the gay had to be bludgeoned to death. Couldn't be have been a bit more original

I'm watching this and Lord of Rings at the same time --and constantly get them mixed up.

I keep waiting for Elves to appear in Westeros

What's missing here is first the story is being told as one major plot. The original GOT had many different threads simultaneously.

Also, so far, there aren't major twists like GOT had. The good guys keep winning and the bad guys keep losing. In GOT good guys would get killed off (like at the red wedding), shifting the plot immediately.

R83 I think she's cute.

[quote]“House of the Dragon” Star Fabien Frankel Spent Seven Months Planning a Singular Sex Scene

LOL. And it ended up looking just like any other sex scene. Whatever, he's beautiful, he's allowed to be dumb.

[quote]What's missing here is first the story is being told as one major plot. The original GOT had many different threads simultaneously.

YES! I loved hopping across the realm in GOT, even across to another continent. This story is too contained to just one place, I have no sense of the scale of the realm.

Frankel is cute, but not very good at acting. The scene at the boat where is proposes to flee and keeps pointing at his own chest to keep it emotional was particularly horrible.

As to the murder being homophobic it is, at least partially. He was already vexed at being the whore to the Princess and her not going along with his plans. Then he realizes his secret is out and he will now be part of a farse, where gays will also feature. So the homosexual part was part of it as well, making him more horrified than he already was.

R90 Yup, and the typical str8s are defending his shitty actions, The writing was shit. He physically attacked the future king consort and murdered a noble in front of everyone and he couldn't be restrained? Bs.

In the books he kills sir joffrey in a tournament which would have been far better than the mess that was...that.

No one knew why Criston did what he did. Kingsguards are granted a lot of leeway in protection of their charges and most witnesses probably assumed that’s what was happening. Other guards gave him the benefit of the doubt, and it’s unlikely that any of the nobles who thought differently would be willing to stop a guy who just crushed someone’s face. And now he has the queen on his side… They’ll probably come up with a story for cover and he will get away with it.

The problem is given the next episode is a 10 year time jump all of this is probably going to be handwaved away r93. Joffrey is knight sworn to House Velaryon. Criston just killing him during the middle of a royal wedding dinner is a big deal, there would be questioning and repercussions. House Velaryon would probably demand he resign from the Kingsguard. But the writers just have it happen to make the wedding more memorable and then handwave it away with the time jump.

There is a reason Criston murders him during a tourney in the source text, it is a situation he knows he can get away with it.

It's not the end of the world, but it's the type of messy writing choices I hope don't become a recurring thing in the show.

90% of characters meet a brutal death in this universe

R94 yep. It's the first huge writing missteps in an otherwise well written show.

R95, there’s a difference between “meeting a brutal death” and “being a trivial character who meets a brutal death that doesn’t seem to matter.”

R97 take it up with the author. Rhaenyra marries a gay lord and his boyfriend is killed during their wedding celebrations.

[quote]The scene at the boat where is proposes to flee and keeps pointing at his own chest to keep it emotional was particularly horrible.

Yeah, that bit was so wooden, they should have gone with another take. Although the lines themselves were pretty naff as well, I actually felt bad for him as an actor that he had to deliver them. Something about Dorne and oranges? Why did he tell the princess he used to be a knight in the Stormlands, then mention his deep knowledge of the port at Sunspear in the very next sentence when those two aren't connected at all? Say what you want about D&D, but those two knew how to elevate the prose.

He's pretty and dumb and seems broey in real life, he'll do very well in Hollywood, I think.

The gay lord (Laenor) will have gay sex with other men in the series.

Ser Joffrey just was not a major character in this story--he was as disposable as the knight killed last episode, or the knight killed in the tournament in the first, or the sailor who was stepped on by the dragon in the third episode.

But no one is complaining THOSE characters were killed (nor even Rhea Royce, who was brutally beaten to death with a rock by her husband).

I don’t think Frankes is a great actor, and I also don’t find him hot. But the dialogue in the boat scene was well done because it shows that he’s quite naive and looking out for himself. He never once talked about loving Rhaenyra or wanting to be with her. It was all about his vows, his name, his honor.

Criston is the one night stand who thinks he’s owed marriage after one passionate night. So dull.

The show continues to be a ratings juggernaut. The audience is still growing.

29 million viewers must be vintage prime time numbers.

Can't have a strong, confident, out, gay male without killing him within minutes of introducing him.

HBO released a sneak peek at the 10-year jump Rhaenyra and her gay husband.

In that clip, who is the "she" they are taking the child to see?

The she should be the green Queen.

I am enjoying LOTR: ROP a lot. Particularly like Maxim Baldry who just emerged in the last two episodes. I hope he has a great character arc.

I really like Emma d'Arcy, and I'm excited to see her take over for Milly Alcock, who was not embarrassing as Rhaenyra but neither expressive nor compelling. (I did very much like the young actress, Emily Carey, who played Alicent, however--I thought she was great at registering complex emotions in a way Alcock was not.)

The new Laenor Velaryon, John Macmillan, also looks already to be a better actor than the inexpressive (but much handsomer) Theo Nate.

Maybe Joffrey try to get inside his pants? The last moment of their conversation camera focus on his crotch and moving sword.

R84 Why are people so put out about that? I don't get it. Historically, women were treated like breeding factories, and gays were murdered for being gay. Why would you expect it to be any different?

[quote] Ser Joffrey just was not a major character in this story--he was as disposable as the knight killed last episode, or the knight killed in the tournament in the first, or the sailor who was stepped on by the dragon in the third episode. But no one is complaining THOSE characters were killed (nor even Rhea Royce, who was brutally beaten to death with a rock by her husband).

The knights and the sailor killed were nameless background characters. Even Rhea's brutal death made sense.

Killing a noble in the middle of a wedding, seemingly without consequence, makes NO sense.

Alicent r106. Looks like they are full fledged enemies come next episode. I mean we laid the groundwork in this episode, interrupting the wedding in that green dress was her declaration of war

I don't understand the whole Alicent wearing a green dress and declare a war? What made her realize that her father was right and Rhaenyra lied to her. I know that limping guy told her about abortion tea that was prepared for her but later she finds out it by Criston that he was the one that she had sex with. So why would that upset her? Makes zero sense.

She's upset Rhaenyra lied to her face claiming that she was still a maiden/virgin after swearing on the memory of her mother... And because of that she believed her and didn't try to convince the king like her father Otto wanted, which ended up getting her dad fired as Hand. She basically realized nobody at Kings Landing gave a fuck about her, so she's sticking close to her own house only.

Alicent trusted Rhaenyra r114. She pleads to both Viserys and her Dad when they doubted Rhaenyra, that Rhaenyra told her she was a maiden and that Rhaenyra would not lie to her.

Her trust in Rhaenyra was shattered. She realizes she doesn't actually know her at all and what she is capable of, and she can't trust what would happen to her and her kids if she took the throne. She had been naive, and now she realizes she needs to grow up and look out for herself.

It makes complete sense.

I’d like to see more underhanded scheming and conniving. Why announce your defiance (Alicent)? Why tell Daemon you know he killed his wife (Ser Royce)? Why publicly attack and kill someone who’s just taunted you (Ser Criston)? Conspire, people, conspire.

They will eventually, r117. These early episodes are showing us how they learned not to trust one another by speaking openly.

Why did the hot guy who knocked up Rhianna kill her husband's boyfriend? Did he come on to him?

R119 pretty sure he told him that he knew he was Rhynearas side pieces which aggravated him to the point of beating a man to death