Michfest may be dead, but what do people know about A-Camp?

There was apparently an incident of racism at the camp in 2019.

Michfest looked like it would've been fun, if one were lesbian. This looks tedious as hell, no, not like hell, actual HELL. I imagine they spend all of their time Acknowledging Privilege/awarding name tags and Oppression Medals. Tattle Taling, and Processing would round out the Airing of Grievances (A break is taken from 1pm-2pm, in silence), otherwise, a 24/7 occupation.

Haha, R2, I think you have probably hit the nail on the head then. Probably nothing would ever get done because they'd be spending all their time worrying over what language they are using.

The Autostraddle website is full of the weirdest takes on things. They are so obsessed with looking high and mighty about everything, and their writers say some of the oddest things sometimes (articles by Drew Gregory or Mey Rude or Riese Bernard herself seem full of these oddities).

What even is an "autostraddle"? The term makes me feel vaguely nauseous.

If this is an example, it seems kinda insufferable:

My god. That looks like an insufferable crowd.

If I had to choose, I would rather take my chances with this fun bunch:

Haha, R6! That's saying something! And I think I'd probably agree, hehe!

Wow. Maybe this is the real reason so many people wanted MichFest shut down.

They wanted to take it over.

Autostraddle were definitely a loud voice in criticising Michfest's policies. How much of an influence they would've had though, I'm not sure. I've really only discovered and read up on the whole delight that was Michfest in the last year or so.

Something about the video in R5 is a little too: "aren't we just so CUTE?!", I think.

Okay.

I'm finally ready to eject the fantasists and them off after the T.

r2 Sounds like the activities at asylums for the mentally ill. Of course, they at r5 look perfect fit for there.

Interestingly, or maybe not surprisingly, the CEO of Autostraddle who is behind this A-Camp (pictured in the centre of the thumbnail at R5) was on record originally as saying Michfest shouldn't have to be inclusive and that people could go elsewhere or create their own camp. It seems to be only since she created A-Camp that the attitude of horror at Michfest started. So R8 may be right...

Not enough rules or stated boundaries.

^Nor stating those boundaries AGAIN, Rainbird!

What made Michfest so much fun both for lesbians to participate in and for outsiders to criticize was that it was always 1977 there.

The attitude, the ethos, the aesthetic, the event itself were all based on this hilariously dated, earthy-crunchy form of Seventies lesbian feminism where they celebrated The Goddess, and they banned men, and they got back to nature (in an extremely unreal and cushioned form), and they made up ridiculous names for themselves, and they established rules and boundaries for one another. (Oh, so many rules and boundaries!) And the participants exulted in it, and also bitched endlessly about other womyn inevitably breaking the rules and boundaries (because that was apparently half the fun: "Artemis Moonsong was late for my breast-casting session! That absolutely will not be tolerated in the future!").

There will never be anything else like it. Both its joy and its ridiculousness alike depended on its anachronisms.

The "man on the land" episode of Transparent was somewhat based on the Michfest ordeal.

The transwoman head of the family tags along to a women's camp. There's a scene around a campfire where old lesbians are debating with the transwoman about who should be at the camp.

That was one of the strongest episodes of the show. After that season, the show took a sharp nosedive.

To be quite honest, if there were a similar camp for gay men, where sex and nudity are common, I probably would not want transmen there showing their vaginas.

[quote] I imagine they spend all of their time Acknowledging Privilege/awarding name tags and Oppression Medals. Tattle Taling, and Processing would round out the Airing of Grievances (A break is taken from 1pm-2pm, in silence), otherwise, a 24/7 occupation.

Brilliant, R2. I first read your post honestly thinking you were quoting their website.

[quote] To be quite honest, if there were a similar camp for gay men, where sex and nudity are common,

Isn't this basically what Atlantis gay cruises are?

I wonder how many trans men try to sneak into those.

R16, that was a fantastic post, really enjoyed reading that and I think you have summed it up perfectly.

R17, I've not seen that show, but it sounds like it might be worthwhile, at least the early seasons?

[quote]To be quite honest, if there were a similar camp for gay men, where sex and nudity are common, I probably would not want transmen there showing their vaginas.

Me either, and that's not meant as a hateful statement at all. I wish trans men well, I just don't think that would the situation I would be after either.

[quote]I wonder how many trans men try to sneak into those.

When men fuck men, we can get pretty primal with each other. I wonder, if a man did want to have sex with a transman, whether that person would fully understand how it could potentially go? Not saying it would, just wondering if the expectations might be different and be unsatisfactory maybe?

R20 there was a reddit or Twitter posting in here within the last 12 months about a trans man complaining ze got raped at a sex party or it was a bathhouse but it was just gay man aggressive sex. Hello!

This is the thing, R21. Men don't fuck other men the way women expect men to fuck them. This could potentially be dangerous. I mean, of course most of us pay attention to our partners, I certainly don't want to do anything someone doesn't want me to. But us men have this understanding between us of how we can push it, what isn't going to worry us if we decide we didn't like something, and that we have comparative strength. It's just different.

Years back a transman complained of being sexually harassed in a cruisey men’s bathroom.

^Demonstrating perfectly how you can't just "identify" as a gay man.

Transmen will soon come out with #IWasRaped #MeTooAgainstGays

[quote]#IWasRaped #MeTooAgainstGays

Which would be particularly ridiculous as GAY men would never have sex, forcefully or otherwise, with a vagina. Because we're gay!

^Sorry, that probably sounds a bit glib - I realise some of us do have sex with women early on in our lives due to pressure or whatever. But I don't really think of that as being the same thing as what those hashtags would be saying, and I'm probably not explaining myself well. Sorry.

[Quote] When men fuck men, we can get pretty primal with each other. I wonder, if a man did want to have sex with a transman, whether that person would fully understand how it could potentially go? Not saying it would, just wondering if the expectations might be different and be unsatisfactory maybe?

You think people with uteruses never like it rough?

The page linked at R1 is hilarious, truly beyond parody. The spirit of Michfest endures!

R28, it's more that I think we have an unspoken, understanding between us in the way we have sex. We don't all like it rough necessarily either, but I think there are situations where if someone is raised as a woman and then wants to be treated like a men they might get a shock.

[quote]The page linked at [R1] is hilarious, truly beyond parody. The spirit of Michfest endures!

Dude, you have to read their apology article over their review of Sausage Party too! Talk about being beyond parody. This will make you laugh, promise! They are dead serious with this:

R30 Wow, you're right, absolutely hilarious!

'I want to personally apologize to every reader who was hurt by the Sausage Party review. I failed you as a senior editor of this website and I failed you as an ally. I am wholly sorry for the pain and anger I caused you. I offer you no justification. I was blinded by my own whiteness existing inside a system of white supremacy. I must do better. I will do better.'

All of this weepy self-flagellation over a fucking animated Latina taco?!

Hahaha ,R31, exactly! Who, exactly, was getting hurt by them reviewing that movie, and are they seeking psychotherapy?

My favaourite line:

[quote]We heard from readers who questioned the consent of the sexual encounter between the taco and the hot dog bun.

It's just too good! Haha!

The video at R5 tells the campers what to do if they spot a bear, but what about if they spot a twink? Or an otter? Or a heterosexual cis white male (rapist)?

Hahaha, R33! That made me laugh.

You know, it's probably only a matter of time until they start taking terms like "bear" and applying them to themselves. They seem to love taking a lot of gay male culture, even though they don't really like gay males.

'Your understanding still seems to be patriarchal. You have disrespected my boundaries, Rainsong. I have stated the boundaries in the topic title. Please respect me and them and refrain from posting here again, Rainsong. I have just stated my boundaries again.'

Hard to improve upon the classics...

Oh my god, that is SO good, R35.

I love how that person's boundaries don't just cover themselves, but also apparently cover whether the other person is allowed to post on the forum at all.

Also, I can't think of squirrels now without thinking that squirrels = death!

Squirrels DO equal death and don't let anyone tell you something different.

DEATH.

I think my friend and I bumped into a patron of Michfest in Hyde Park in London years back. She was with her daughter and the daughter said: "Oh look mom, a squirrel!" and the mother screamed: "DON'T TOUCH IT!!!" in the manner of Catherine Tate's Aga Saga Woman.

So, a basic, middle class, dyke version of the Bohemian Grove?

Just curious, ARE there gay men's camps? I mean, if there are, we know it'd be a whole lotta fucking in the woods. I assume there has to be, as I know a lot of guys love camping. I've never done it myself.

Cash, weed, PUSSY!

John Waters has some kind of a camp for adults.

It's called his filmography.

John would appreciate your rim-shot worthy comment, r43, pun intended, but I refer to this:

women when held up to the same standards they force upon men's spaces become disturbingly bitter and delight in the misery of others. go figure. I suppose toxic masculinity really does affect us all.

R44, I can never get enough of Mink Stole's reading of that line: "Miss Sandstone. Miss... Sandy Sandstone."

I wonder what The Land is being used for these days? And are there men on it?

R47 Apparently the land is now held by a non-profit, the We Want the Land Coalition. No plans to resurrect Michfest, but there will forever continue to be NO MEN ON THE LAND®.

Haha, Rory! Something about it being called "We Want The Land" tickles me. Seems appropriate.