HANDMAID’S TALE - Season 5

It was/is on pacific time. The first two episodes are up. The end of the 2nd ep is a mind-blower but I won't spoil it. Worth watching.

The real version is far scarier.

$88 fine for transporting an unsecured biological sample, lol, the humor on this show is so fucking dark.

Fuck Yes! I love Serena’s handler, and the actor is very attractive too!

[quote] Season 4 ended on a brutal and bloody note that sees a big shift in the narrative.

I read the novel and its sequel during the pandemic. I loved The Handmaid's Tale. I watched the first season and liked it because it followed the novel closely. It ended where the novel ended. I watched the first episode of season two and decided not to continue. It was torture porn. It felt to me like it left the important spirit of the novel behind and decided to emphasize torture as much as possible, in as many varied ways as possible. It just totally turned me off. I can't imagine how season four ending 'on a brutal and bloody note' is a change of tone for the series.

R5 The conclusion to season four was the longest slow burn resolve from elements in season one and was extremely satisfying.

R1 Fuck yes, that was good TV, this show really knows how to twist the knife, and is always visually stunning in doing it.

I find Max Minghella very sexy.

While the scene was well acted between Emily’s wife and June…I HATE what they did to Emily. It reminds me of the sequel to Silence of the Lambs where Clarissa joins Hannibal.

I missed how they wrote her out. What happened?

R10 Emily has returned to Gilead to fight, and to hunt down Aunt Lydia. The announcement that Alexis was divorcing came after it was said she wasn’t returning for the season. I’m wondering if the separation and impending divorce proceeding precluded her from going to Canada to film and she couldn’t be separated from her kids or take them out of the country?

White women love this show so much it's creepy. Black women have been living it for years.

If the series follows Margaret Atwood's story trajecotry, then Aunt Lydia won't be hunted to her doom. She is in the Handmaid's Tale sequel "The Testaments" that takes place 15 years after the original story. And her character transforms radically.

R13 Her transformation is already being strongly hinted at.

This show is still on? Who watches this torture porn any more?

Literature is the only way I can stomach such bleakness. I love the novels Blindness and The Road but I knew while reading them that they'd be unwatchable as visual entertainment. There's too much suffering. It's too graphic and without the filter of characters' perceptions, it just turns into exploitation of human suffering. I thought the first season of The Handmaid's Tale stayed just on this side of bearable with the visual depictions but when they ran out of the original story, they doubled down on exploitation and seemed to just focus on showing torture in as many different sick ways as they could come up with. I followed the women to the gallows for the mindfuck mass hanging. As soon as the put a woman's arm over a gas flame and held it there while she screamed, I knew it had become a show for sadists and lost Atwood's brilliant spirit and I turned it off for good. Even if the series ended up getting back on track, I'm not going to torment myself with hours of exposure to sadism for a resolution that comes 40 hours into the series.

Fabulous 2 episodes.

Serena, you in danger gurl!

I checked out at the end of S3 when it was morphing into "Gilead Place". Or was it "Flying Nun"? My partner still watches it and, last night, he mumbled something along the lines "This really doesn't make any sense." But, I'm sure he'll stick with it until the bitter end. I'm more like Berger's post-it to Carrie: "I'm sorry. I can't. Don't hate me."

Apparently episode 7 will be the big June/Serena face off.

It is still very entertaining.

It’s beautifully photographed, structured, and acted.

The first two seasons were still horrifying to watch because they really showed what happening and how we got there.

The protest March where the Gilead police started shooting the protestors

The overflowing airports with people fleeing America as martial Law was morphing into Gilead

The overturn of abortion and limiting birth control

Marriage equality being declared illegal by “the law”

The present and what’s to come of our natural future… and the Gilead fiction…sometimes blur and that’s scary as fuck

R22 Yes, the story is brilliant. That's all Margaret Atwood. The novel is astonishing to me—really chilling and also beautifully told.

The TV series is different. Season one followed the book closely but then it seemed to shift its lens toward exploitive, horrifyingly graphic individual abuses and torture with a lot less subtext and social commentary. Just a parade of the writers' explorations of how to make people suffer.

Another great episode!

I'm with your boyfriend, R18, and I've watched from the beginning. A lot of the show makes no sense now.

Serena is a political prisoner accused of crimes against humanity. Why would Canada allow her to waltz back into Gilead and then declare she wants to stay put? She's have absolutely no say in the matter, whether Fred was dead or not. And why would she want to? She was fearful of going back just a few episodes ago, terrified that she'd be made a handmaid or worse as punishment. Why would she want to live in a country where she'd have no rights whatsoever? It makes zero sense.

And how is her new arrangement with Gilead supposed to work? Isn't Gilead in a cold war with Canada and not officially recognized? How is she supposed to have staff and money when women in Gilead aren't even allowed to have their own money.

This show constantly changes its internal logic on a whim and it's infuriating. I don't know how they're getting a season 6 from it.

What made Handmaids Tale work as a book was the June was an everywoman, smart but measured, and you believed this story could happen to all of us.

The June of this tv series has devolved into a mentally retarded she-hulk.

Serena has devolved from an Ann Coulter- like religious zealot, into an SNL impression of Ivanka Trump.

I've often thought this show could be so much better by exploring Gilead itself - which is sort of an intriguing mystery on this show. Where are its borders? What's it like living in the rebel-controlled areas? (We've had glimpses of this when the show went to DC and Chicago, but nothing more).

What's happened to say, celebrities, post-takeover? When Dolly Parton's song was playing in the diner during the premiere, I actually wondered what would have become of her in this totalitarian world.

And the show really could use more flashbacks to what led to Gilled, including the attack on Congress and the White House (which now sounds far more plausible than it did when Atwood wrote the novel),

But all those potentially fascinating avenues of exploration are quashed by Elizabeth Moss' ego and the need to keep delving into SuperJune's increasingly warped psyche and show endless closeups of Moss' angry, flaring nostrils.

The series really should've moved on from June long, long ago, but that's Hollywood.

Great series, great episode.

Serena overplayed her hand.

Thank you, but I will not watch it.

I wish they’d stop giving that crazy potty-mouthed Scientologist the work

She’s creepier than the whole series

No, R30, she is not. In Gilead, only women are beaten and murdered. Scientology beats and murders men, women and children alike. We believe in equality!

Plot...rinse and repeat.

I want revenge.

I can't go through with it.

I have to escape.

I want to go back.

I need to move in with my life.

I can't move on...I want revenge.

I'm going back.

I've had sufficient.

Well, this dispels my theory season 6 would focus on The Testaments. I know Ann Dowd’s character has been beaten and bruised much the last seasons, but I do wonder if the actress herself is up to a few more years of filming this series, especially if she moves front and center for Testaments.

Gilead's population is pretty small. There were previous wars and nukes and chemicals were used. Large chunks of the US became uninhabitable and because of all the radiation and chemicals, people became sterile. The United States was reduced to Hawaii and Alaska. Here are some maps that explain the makeup of Gilead. Most of the population lives in the northeast.

I’m calling it now, Ann Dowd is getting another Emmy.

I only watched through the beginning of season two because it became torture porn, but I 'read' The Testaments as an audiobook and Ann Dowd narrated the chapters told by Aunt Lydia. Her acting stands out even when she's just a disembodied voice. I think she deserves an Emmy or a Grammy or whatever award would be given for that. She certainly now is part and parcel with that character. I think Margaret Atwood even had Dowd in mind when she wrote the sequel.

[Quote]I know Ann Dowd’s character has been beaten and bruised much the last seasons

At least she still has both eyes.

And don't get me started on that cattle prod.

R37 It was nominated and a finalist for the Audie Award of Audiobook of the Year, but lost out to Only Plane in the Sky, a very complex oral history work about 9/11.

I suppose this thread will answer the timeless question: "How many times can the term 'torture porn' appear in a single Datalounge thread?"

[Quote]very complex oral

I could nominate a couple of people for that award.

R41 Oral is attached to history here, not complex!

I still hate what they’ve done to June. And Moira actually.

Before the United States fell to Gilead, Moira was the lesbian activist who was protesting and organizing. Now she’s passive and meek.

June was the everywoman who wasn’t as radical as Moira…now she’s mentally ill and violent.

It’s like the two characters switched characterizations…which is fine in itself…but the show doesn’t comment on this change and just acts like they are natural progressions

[quote] I still hate what they’ve done to June.

Considering the traumatic stuff she’s been through, it is a natural progression for June to become radicalized and violent. Plus if she remained passively on the sidelines there wouldn’t be much of a show.

A horrible series that just showcases constant suffering. I don't understand the appetite for it.

Just because the USA is slouching toward becoming the dystopia depicted therein doesn't mean it's worth watching. i wouldn't watch it if it were the only option out there.

^^ I guess r45 doesn’t like DRAMA

Like the show but I'm sick to death of the bug eyed close ups with a wide angle lens

^ OP's pic is the reason I didn't continue watching after season one - too many lingering close-ups of her.

R45 Yeah, it feels that way to me and that feels far removed from the novel. It makes me think this contemporary update is more 'Americanized' than Atwood's story even though I know Atwood is involved in the production, but the original intention was never a revenge fantasy or a "do violence to the people who wronged you" spirit. It was "treating people this way is wrong. Let's look at it. It's been done to women throughout history, it happens now in some places, and it could happen again close to home." On TV, for the sake of drawing it out to make money, it's become "Here are some new ways we thought of that people could torture people. Wait, it gets way worse next episode, next season. OK, we know we're wearing you out but wait, now the BAD GUYS will get tortured, and we'll make their torture even worse! Cool, right?!"

This was one of the best episodes yet, a series standout.

Let's do six seasons on Scientology's abuses, and see how quickly this numb cunt dives in to THAT audition.

Make

them

all

die

already!!

SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS!!!

Is June actually recaptured AGAIN?? All in the span of a single episode? I thought last season this show had finally stopped going in circles but apparently not. Plus, I could have sworn that show runner Bruce Miller was adamant that June would not return to Gildead.

The only other plausible outcome is that Luke and June were caught by Canadian forces - which may be why all that info is on the hard drive, so that they can find Hannah from afar. The hard drive doesn't actually make sense if they're imprisoned (again!) and unable to use it.

Sheesh. Watching them tortured and beaten (again) by Aunt Lydia & company is too dreadful to contemplate.

She is going to kill Serena

[quote]Is June actually recaptured AGAIN?? All in the span of a single episode?

Looks like it lol. I watched the preview for next week's episode and I guess she ends up back in Gilead once again

What's the in-show reason Alexis Bledel isn't around this season?

There’s plenty of good television not starring a fug Scientologist.

She left Canada to fight back in Gilead.

She got divorced recently. Some have said that she can't take her kids out of state to shoot in Canada.

[quote]r55 I guess she ends up back in Gilead once again.

There’s no place like home.

[quote]r56 What's the in-show reason Alexis Bledel isn't around this season?

[quote] r59 She got divorced recently. Some have said that she can't take her kids out of state to shoot in Canada.

Blessed be.

In R55's clip, the last scene of the preview shows Serena's minder pulling June off a bus.

Maybe she was captured by Gilead sympathisers in Canada and is being held by them.

🤔

I can report at least until episode 8…June does not go back to Gilead and is reunited with Luke. What happens after episode 8…I don’t know.

I gave up after Season 4. Enough.

The Commanders are going to take Serena's baby and place it with the Wheelers, right?

Zzz zzzzZzzzz Wake me up when the Handmaid's figure out a way to control the world and delve pay back to all the evil men.

[r66] Hey Susan Sarandon! Welcome to Datalounge!

But how could they, R65? Serena is still in Canada, even though she's with Gileadian believers. Canadian laws would apply, right?

There's really no logic to this show - Serena of ALL people would know her baby would likely be taken away if she returned to Gilead, and that she would have no civil rights as a woman, so why would she choose that over Canadian asylum? It makes zero sense, as does the idea that Canada - which earlier didn't even recognize Gilead's sovereignty - would allow any kind of Gileadian outpost on its soil.

[quote]R68 There's really no logic to this show - Serena of ALL people would know her baby would likely be taken away if she returned to Gilead, and that she would have no civil rights as a woman, so why would she choose that over Canadian asylum?

People do all kinds of wild things when they think they’re special. Only something like 2% of professional actors and musicians support themselves through their art, but thousands and thousands of new ones join the ranks every year.

Serena is gifted, beautiful, resolved. She helped build the philosophy of Gilead’s structure with her husband (even though she wasn’t credited.) She thinks things might change just enough for her to be more included - and who knows, maybe they will. The odds are against her, but…

Plus, isn’t she a True Believer? Some of those types go down with the ship.

There's logic, just not your logic, R68.

People do all sorts of things that we think are against their interests, but they don't see it that way. Only people with different interests see it that way.

Ironically, it's likely Serena is being turned into a handmaid. She just can't see it yet.

Praise be.

Does Handmaid’s Tale have a world building and logic problem, yes absolutely. But, I think it’s intentional and rooted in the source material. It has always been vague about how big Gilead is, how the commanders systems work, how the collapse and take over happened so quickly, how rules are bent and broken, why logic seems not to exist at all. It’s a hallmark of Fascists states that they keeps you guessing and changing the rules constantly. Think about what 1984 lays out with its Doublespeak and continual manipulation and changing of history and ability to undermine thinking with black is white today and tomorrow it’s the opposite. It’s all about undermining people and seeding chaos to distract people from what’s going on. And Gilead is using two institutions government and religion to do that.

R71 Well, that's what they get when they tried to turn a short novel into an open-ended, dipshit TV series that's simply a money-minting lazy allegory against Donald fucking Trump.

But Trump ain't in office anymore, and the series is wearing thin.

It’s an allegory about Trump? Most of the characters seem much smarter and better organized than he is.

The thing that makes Handmaids Tale stand out is it was written in response partly to the Iranian Revolution.

1) Women lost their rights

2) Homosexuals were murdered

3) Religious men ruled.

What makes it scary is that this is also where America is headed with and without Trump. It’s not specific to him.

No it's not. NY and CA and the blue states would never let that happen.

[r75] yeah…keep believing that. The narrative that something or someone will save you never gets old and always falls apart just in time for a new savior to appear.

Jim Comey will save you. Mitt Romney will save you. Robert Mueller will save you. Nancy Pelosi will save you. Merrick Garland will save you. The election will save you. The Supreme Court will save you. The special counsel will save you.

Roe vs Wade is gone.

Homosexual teachers are called groomers (even in blue states) gay marriage will soon be gone too.

In the 1930s, Berlin was considered the most liberal city in the world. It was FAR more liberal than America at that time. Blue Oasis Berlin couldn’t save gay Germans and couldn’t save German Jews. As it turns out, it didn’t matter where you lived. When it became too late…there was no where to hide.

There are no blue states and red states when we fall in authoritarian rule.

Listen to what Marjorie Taylor Green is saying. Listen to her words. Listen to what Matt Walsh is saying. Listen to Ben Shapiro. Believe what they say. They say what they mean. You can dismiss them as crazy or a small vocal minority and the majority don’t feel that way…they are real… and they are organized. It never has to be a huge group for a coup to succeed. It just has to be “enough” true believers and “enough” people that go along with it.

When Roe was overturned people thought there would be mass protests in the streets. Where were they? Women lost their body autonomy with a stroke of a pen. When gay marriage is overturned there will be outrage…but eventually people will move on…they always do.

By the time you finally realize what I’m saying is true…it will be too late. It always is. When a person who always believed that something was impossible finally sees the impossible as not just possible, but probable…it will be too late.

Living in a “blue state” buys you time. But only minutes in the scheme of things.

^^ can’t you run for president or something, r76, and fix everything?

Episode 5 really was a doozy at the end (not spoiling it).

Serena is a confusing character given her unflinching support of the system that keeps knocking her down. And yes, as someone earlier said, she thinks she’s too special to be a common wife….but they constantly show her how little they care about her.

And why was she wearing pantsuits in Canada when she was supposed to be wanting to wear her blue dress ensemble from Gilead?

Oh baby, it just keeps getting better and better! So much happened, I must admit I wouldn’t have shed a tear if they had killed Luke, such as dead weight character. Did anyone one else think it weird that a gynecologist would suggest eating salmon to a pregnant women? Aren’t pregnant women basically supposed to stop eating fish at some point to avoid mercury levels? And as bad as it is now, in their world it’s got to be worse right? Anyways, ThelmaNLouise4Ever!

She chews the scenery in just about everything she's in like Chrissy Metz in a Golden Corral.

That fictionalized Shirley Jackson biopic which was turned into a surreal feminist statement piece and inaccurately depicted Shirley as a childless psychopath was a major example.

Again, what are the rules and laws of this alternate universe?

If the Wheels live in Canada, how can they keep Serena prisoner? Why does a Toronto doctor have a Martha? Why is a Commander (Wheeler) not living in Gilead? And wouldn't the Canadian government be aware that he was running a Gileadean army unit in No Man's Land?

I love this show but the *Spoilers* “gun” scene between Serena and June was such a Telenova spectacle.

Sometimes this show is prestige television and sometimes it is “Ryan’s Hope”

Serena has her reasons. She knew the Wheelers were going full Rosemary’s Baby on her and needed to get out. She’ll want to accept a different deal from the Canadian government now. Maybe.

May The Lord Open.

So, Serena is now going to give birth out in the wilds by herself like June had too?

[quote]May The Lord Open.

Pics please.

[quote]Again, what are the rules and laws of this alternate universe?

This is ultimately the problem with adapting a shorter novel into a series over multiple seasons.

The MICE quotient (Milieu, Idea, Character, and Event) is never sufficiently fleshed out to account for the additional storylines and situations that arise, especially since those doing the adaptation are usually not as clever, inventive, or imaginative as someone like Margaret Atwood.

To those who think Gilead could never happen here. Remember the January 6 insurgency? Do you really think those people have given up? (There's a hearing today, isn't there?). And there are many more where they came from, who just didn't happen to travel into DC that day.

Look at what's going on lately. A couple of the Republican candidates openly say they want to ban birth control. (Not just the morning-after pill.). Do Republican women really want to have 10 kids each? Another Republican candidate made remarks in the past that women shouldn't be in positions of leadership. (But now he says he was just kidding. Ha ha.). The state of Ohio was going to force a ten-year-old rape victim to have a baby; the girl had to travel out of state to get an abortion, and people are still attacking the doctor who performed the procedure.) Women have been denied medication at pharmacies because the medication could be dangerous to a fetus...even though the woman seeking the medicine isn't even pregnant. And of course everyone here already knows what's happening in terms of gay rights. The Christofascists are trying to take over, and they will align with the gun-crazy, anti-government activists to make it happen.

I predict June will deliver Serena's baby as it looks like Serena is going into labor in Ep 6. Should be an interesting episode.

[quote]R86 Again, what are the rules and laws of this alternate universe?

I think this is kind of a geeky, specialized way of looking at drama.

I don’t have to know the intricacies of the Trojan War to enjoy a Greek tragedy. I don’t need to know more than north vs. south to follow Gone with the Wind. I could never keep the house conflicts straight in Game of Thrones… but that doesn’t mean I didn’t enjoy the series.

What exactly do you need to know that’s distracting you so?

I want June and Serena to hate fuck SO bad.

I was worried this season would be a bust but so far, it's been great. I happen to like Incredible Hulk June.

Ann Dowd, as always is fantastic.

Loved Luke trying to be a bad ass in the cages and June getting tired of it. It was funny how obvious it was that he was trying to make up for not going after her from the get go. What Serena said really got to him and I actually loved her for pointing out that June took all the risks. You can tell that despite everything, Serena actually has some respect for June. I predict June will help her deliver and will take her to Canada. There's no going back to Gilead for Serena now.

I think we saw the first success of Aunt Lydia of the Testaments with this episode, she was part of bringing that commander down.

I want Serena’s child taken from her to be with the Wheelers, so she knows what it’s like to have her child snatched away, as the Handmaids do.

Maybe she learned this through her suspicions at the Wheelers’ house, though, and will do an about face to help June find her daughter in Gilead.

I don’t know why Serena’s so pissed her husband’s gone when he had her finger cut off. Maybe she’s just affronted.

I have the feeling that Serena's baby will die.

I think Serena being pissed about Fred's death is more about June having the power to do that to him. Serena secretly envies June's strength. She's a very smart woman who went along with the Gilead stuff because she was a true believer but I don't think she is anymore. She absolutely ran to keep her child from being taken from her. She could have killed both June and her guard dude but she chose to save June. I always liked the episodes where she and June were working together when Fred was gone. I LOVE the actress so much that it's hard to hate her even with all the shit she's done. When she and Moss are on screen together there is a chemistry between them.

I hope she will end up helping her get Hannah but from what I understand Hannah doesn't make it out. I hope Janeen does, though. I think Aunt Lydia will help her and Ester escape.

Alanis, you oughta know…

R94 Dude, learn to use spoilers. God damn.

R90 Are you a man or a woman?

R91 here, and I’m right! If there’s any actress who’s deserved a great end of career arc as an actress with a perfect role it’s Dowd.

Wait just a fucking minute r98.

End of career? END OF CAREER?

EAT SHIT R98.

The weird doctor salivating while counseling Serena on the benefits of antenatal perineal massage was vomit inducing. That was the moment that sealed the deal for Serena. Strahovski is a wonderful actress.

[quote]r100 antenatal perineal massage

Just in case anyone has to perform this, for a friend:

I wonder if season 6 which will be the last season will be the Testaments. They could move ahead 10 years and finally get Hannah out.

R102 No, there will be a whole new Testaments series after season six, but I’m sure it will be lining things up for the step off to the Testaments. I think they will need to introduce the Pearl Girls before the end of Handmaid’s Tale. I wonder if McKenna Grace character will be the first Pearl Girl?

Forgive my ignorance, but what was up with Esther/McKenna Grace's "uterus harvesting" that didn't happen? I understand she is pregnant, but why were they planning to do such a thing?

r97, woman.

Serena looks like she’s going into labor.

If I were June I’d snatch the baby born in the wild and tell Serena she can have it back when Hannah is delivered, safe and sound.

Trade off.

UGLY BITCH involved in a evil insidious cult worse than any handmaid's tale story and lies to herself and the world about it!.. fuck her, (no, i second thought no thanks!)...

^^ are you talking about Camilla?

Oh please, r107. ALL religions are cults.

R104, some women are having uterus transplants so that they can experience pregnancy. They keep it only a couple of years, enough time to get knocked up and deliver a baby. After they've had their kid(s), they have the uterus removed (rather than continue to take the drugs to prevent their body from rejecting it). I don't know what happens at that point. Whether it gets transplanted into someone else or is disposed of.

[quote]R110 I don't know what happens [to the borrowed uterus] at that point. Whether it gets transplanted into someone else or is disposed of.

Maybe it’s eaten, along with the placenta?

Thank you, r110.

yeah, all religions are cults and all equal in their actions, all the same! what a asinine simplistic black and white comment....

R106 And how exactly would she do that? Haven't you noticed that Serena is the one with a gun, not June?

Serena will put the gun down during contractions - maybe shoot off a round when squeezing her hands, and realize it’s unsafe. Then we POUNCE.

OR (and this is what I would do) wrestle it away from Serena when she’s doing her final push!

#VictoryIsOurs

[and finally get Hannah out]

SPOILER

Hannah/Agnes never gets rescued by June and Luke. She grows into womanhood in Gilead, not knowing any other life. She bristles against marriage and decides to serve Gilead as an Aunt. She gets reunited with June briefly and meets Nichole/Holly after an adventure takes into Canada. June, now a terrorist, makes a quick exit back to her life on the run in the wilds of the bordertowns and no man’s land between Canada and Gilead.

You. Are. A. LIAAAARRRR!

And it displeaseth The Lord.

R90 and R94 Serena and June have the most chemistry out of any pairing on the show, hands down. I swear, this show sometimes feels like the longest, most drawn out lesbian foreplay ever—these women act like jilted exes around each other. I wish they would hook up at the end of the series. Luke and Nick are too blah, and the long scenes with Luke to prove their undying love are just too much and too much convincing of the audience that they are IN LOVE, dammit.

When Serena and June have scenes together, it’s electric, though. Why not take it to the natural next step?

It's been building, and it's been obvious since Season 1.

R119 ha! That video made me laugh!

I can’t wait for the next episode!!

Did Serena ever do her antenatal perineal massages? I rather hope she didn’t.

Maybe that's the reason she's in such a rush with June, r121.

That video was hilarious, r119!

[quote]R122 Maybe that's the reason she's in such a rush with June

If Serena asks June to perform antenatal perineal massage on her, we’ll know it’s ALL TRUE.

R124 What's true?

The supposed lesbian attraction discussed in last few posts - -

I doubt it. Serena envies June's toughness and strength, but isn't in love with her. She's a terrible person that was okay with her husband raping June and then taking the baby away from her. Why would anyone ship them?

R127, because there's some chemistry between them. Sometimes they're like Krystle and Alexis. Other times they're like Jo and Blair.

R127 we were just joking about it—not shipping per se. The only thing I am serious about is the fact that their chemistry onscreen is far more palpable than the women with their male partners. They are more interesting together because of their history and back-and-forth frenemy relationship. The men are pretty boring on the show.

I keep thinking the silver bearded actor is John Cusack, but it’s not.

Yeah, I don't really ship them, either but I sure do love watching them act together. There really is a chemistry. I do hope that what June said before she thought Serena was going to kill her got through to Serena. I would love to see some sort of redemption to her character but I'm not sure she could ever be redeemed after all that she's done.

R130 he is my favorite with his droll snark

Gee, r130, guess you never watched THE WEST WING, huh?

Actually, I didn’t.

Was Elisabeth Moss responsible for getting her former The West Wing co-star Bradley a role on The Handmaid's Tale?

Probably only if he’s a fellow $cientologist

A no kill list.

Ep 7 Wow. I cried all the way through. I actually felt sorry for Serena.

Well, at least she didn’t name him Jesus or Moses.

The actress who played Serena did a great job

I think Serena’s scenes with June read less lesbian and more just someone who’s desperate for a genuine human connection. She and Tuello have pretty intense chemistry. But who wouldn’t with dream stud SJ

I gave up in the third season. She just ran away too many times with the Commander and Selena afterwards forgiving her ("But if you do this one more time...!") for me to feel the show show was at all plausible.

R142, I had to let go of plausibility of show story lines in this book-created world after S1. You’re right, June’s shenanigans wouldn’t have been tolerated. Also the premise of the book was that these histories were from an unverified source. In the show world I think June couldn’t have been an anonymous figure; the angel flight during this time of world-wide fertility issues would have been a historical event.

I hope Rita gets custody of the baby renames him Matthew and that would piss off Serena because Rita would be replacing her dead son with Serena's.

I’m sure the Wheelers already have all their papers to be a foster family in place.

I agree R144, Rita should get Serena's baby.

It looks like the Wheelers are still trying to get their hands on Serena's baby

June needs to SNATCH DAT BABY!!

R146 How would, out of thousands of people that want to have children (remember, this is in the world of infertility), Rita get the baby? And who would allow for a former servant to get her ex-enslaver's child? That would be so lame. It's already a huge stretch that they are all living in the same town, after escaping from Gilead.

Well, since it is a community of American expatriates r149, it doesn't seem like much of a stretch to me.

Didn't Serena ask Rita to take the baby if something happened to her? I seem to remember this from season 4 and Serena was in that luxurious prison cell.

This show makes no sense whatsoever.

Gayest episode, ever! Loved it. I think it's the season finale next week. My guess is June will help Serena get the baby back and then Serena will spend next season helping June to try to get Hannah back. I think Serena will die in the process...in Gilead and that will likely be the end of the series. The show has been great this season and it's remarkable considering how little time we spent in Gilead. My prediction is June will try to get Janeen out too, but Janeen will choose to stay and help the other handmaids with Aunt Lydia so she can be close to Angela. I do hope Commander Lawrence and Nick get out, but I doubt either one will.

Not next week, there are 10 episodes in this season and next week is ep 7 R153.

I forgot to add that it was nice to see June snap back into her old self. Still a fighter, but with compassion. Say what you will about Moss, but she's an amazing actress. You could see the moment when she let go of "Hulk Smash June" and went back to her old self was when Serena asked her why she didn't kill her and June admitted why. She allowed herself to be vulnerable with Serena for the first time in a long time. I love how they have used the "Do you understand me?" line in this show. Serena yelling it at June, June yelling it at Serena, and last night June using it on Serena quietly, with compassion.

Ah great news, r154! Thanks!

There are going to be ten episodes in this season, and reviewers were given 8 to preview and none of them knows what the season finale holds. From the start they’ve said that episode 8, the next one, is unlike any episode yet and June and Serena go head to head in an unbelievable way.

I agree, Serena will die next season and be one of the primary emotional beats of the end of the series. Many will hate that I say this, though it’s already become obvious, is that June is very much like Katniss in The Hunger Games, and ultimately is so damaged and destroyed by the experience she will never quite recover or be content. She’s the spark that startsthe downfall, but she is also consumed within the fire of the revolution. She’s seen and experienced to much to be anything beyond shattered. I’ve been amazed at how much she’s been able to pull back and regain her humanity at different points during this season, but I think that’s there to make the ultimate break that much more devastating. She lives, but in many ways remains a martyr to the cause.

Yes, r157. At this point, both women are symbolic of the greater war that is happening in Gilead and of our world today. Serena's death will be the end of the series and I think June will likely leave Luke and go off on her own somewhere with Nicole. I imagine the final shot will be her standing in some wilderness with Nicole as a toddler and some voice over with her talking about the future for women.

[quote]June and Serena go head to head in an unbelievable way.

Hot.

I mean we already know what happens to Nicole and Hannah from the Testaments, and to a certain extent June and completely Aunt Lydia.

DON'T POST SPOILERS

[quote]R157 June is very much like Katniss in The Hunger Games…

Sorry, I don’t read Young Adult fiction.

This series will go on and on. They have to follow the testaments which is also a book written by Atwood. Unless they make two different stories out of this we won't see June get Hannah back for many years. The reason Atwood wrote The Testaments was to continue the story. It's pretty frustrating. Hulu wants it to go on and on since it is their flagship show.

HBO is under no obligation to closely follow the plot points of TESTAMENTS. There’s some stuff that’s super dramatic, but I wouldn’t expect it to slavishly follow everything in that book.

r161, are you new to the internet? I never open these threads until I'm done watching the latest episode. As far as spoilers for the Testaments, I haven't read it and even if I had, this show has veered from the original book so much that I'm assuming they will do the same with the spin off.

R164 HBO?

SORRY, Netflix.

I mean, Amazon Prime.

Hulu dummy

That’s what I said!!

Blessed be.

Well, Hulu to you to, and quit calling me DUMMY,

I think it’s on Apple TV+ actually.

Atwood already told us what happens to Serena at the end of the original novel.

Serena has been integral to this show since she started clashing with June. They always make Serena vacillate between unbelievable selfishness and cruelty and then humanity and empathy to some extent at other times, like when she let June take Nichole. I want to root for Serena sometimes, slap her in the face at other times.

This past season they’ve made June similar, only each is fighting for their own side.

But episode 7…damn! These two have some of the most intimacy out of any two on the show. This season is much better than the torture porn of season 3, I think it was, where all we saw was June’s face in the hospital.

This show is torture porn for fat SJW women who can't admit that they really want an alpha stud to tear their pussy up.

[quote]R172 Atwood already told us what happens to Serena at the end of the original novel.

No.

Current number of "torture porn" references in this thread: 6.

Maybe a record for one poster (?)

I just want to report I had a dream last night where Elizabeth Moss was training me to be a physical therapist in a clinic and she fired me because I forgot to put a pot of noodles on the stove.

Why? I do not know. But she was very stern and exacting.

Noodles are incredibly important to Xenu.

R178 you will keep dreaming of her until you’re OT clear or whatever silly made up terms it that Scientologists use.

The show already has a different back story than what was presented in Testaments for Aunt Lydia, so I wouldn’t necessarily assume they are concerned with continuity between the two,

Also, book Serena would have been too old to conceive a child, so the show is in its own territory there. I’d say don’t expect a lot of overlap with Testaments.

r165 I don't open the thread until I see the latest episode. I just don't want possible series ending/who dies spoilers so I guess I will skip the rest of this thread after your comment.

R183 nobody has seen end of the season! Mary!

r184 people were posting about the book and somebody posted a no kill list the author gave the writers

R185 the book is a very well-known classic. You’re being precious. I thought you had trounced out of the thread?

Oh, the humanity r185.

R186 is making lol for real

The series doesn't disappoint but I just read that the Testament is a continuation of the Handmaid's tale. Unless season 6 jumps 15 years ahead, you won't see Hannah get out before the end of the testaments. She is an integral part of bringing down Gilead. But you can already see the change starting to happen to Aunt Lydia. She starts to see how perverted the commanders are and works to bring down Gilead herself. June is in the background fighting in the resistance. The story will go on for a long time.

[quote]The story will go on for a long time.

That makes one of us.

Ann Dowd will also play Aunt Lydia in the testements.

If Ann Dowd is too ill or infirm to carry out her duties, Margo Martindale is waiting in the wings to step in and fulfill her duties.

"End of career arc", "too ill or infirm to carry out her duties".

Jesus fucking christ I hate you queens.

Hi! Hi! I’m available!

[No.]

Yes. It’s revealed in the symposium.

To all the people posting SPOILERS including the one about Hannah not being rescued: Fuck you

To all the people worrying about SPOILERS on a Datalounge thread: Fuck you.

R196 has stated her boundaries and WILL BE RESPECTED!

Watched ep8 preview. Do all woman-centric television shows eventually become about getting a baby back?

I don’t think UNBELIEVABLE had an infant in it.

New Bethlehem = Theresienstadt

He played a recurring character on Mom r30. The episodes he was in were hilarious!

Commander Lawrence: “I’ve been grooming Nick. Not sexually. But he’s been helping me.”

I really expected the return of Serene to the Wheelers to end with them saying to her “And we’ve got this red dress for you to change into Serena.”

I wonder if Hannah might not want to go back.

I definitely don’t think his character is going to live until the end, but I do think he’ll be given an incredibly heroic death, where he reluctantly sacrifices himself, perhaps for a child.

I still don't understand the geopolitics of this show. Serena is relinquished by Canada to Gilead custody, yet placed with the Wheelers, who apparently live in a Gileadean neighborhood, but in Canada, yet occupied by a Giladean commander? So Canada allows Gilder's laws - which they abhor - to be upheld within Canada's borders, even though they don't recognize Gilead's sovereignty and are planning to attack it? Huh??

And why would Serena want to be relinquished to Gilead, knowing they'll separate her from her baby and possibly force her into handmaid servitude? She's in Canada, so wouldn't she stand a better chance at keeping custody of her son by pleading for Canadian amnesty?

I mostly enjoy this show, but stop say the writers need to clarify a few things is an understatement.

And why would Serena want to be relinquished to Gilead? Um, she no longer wants that.

While I’m sure Gilead doesn’t have embassies around the world, I assume there must be at least consulates and that what I’ve considered the Wheelers and their big house to be. And like an embassy a consulate is considered foreign ground of another country. The Canadians, to me, would be deporting her back to her country of origin so by turning her over to the Wheelers that are doing that on some level.

Yvonne Strahovski did an interview about ep 8. She said with a twinkle in her eye that one line she had really made her smile. I bet it was when she said to June she didn't know how she could live as a handmaid with someone trying to steal her baby and of course, June replied "you're asking me that question?". Serena looked like she was having a hard time keeping a straight face when she said "how did you ever live with me?. That whole conversation with both of them in the detention center ws great.

Really great episode last night. Moss should win the Emmy for her performance this season and so should Strahovski. Both are amazing actresses. And I love Lawrence confessing his regrets about it all.

Serena is TITS OUT!

It would be strange for June to go to New Bethlehem without Luke and Nicole. I guess it makes sense for each parent to look out for one of the kids, but it can’t be ideal optics for Gilead to not have the complete family returning.

Hmmm.

And after resetting, how often would June be able to see Hannah? Once a month? She’ll be under the greatest scrutiny over there alone - though she’ll have Nick on her side.

I didn’t enjoy this episode as much as the previous ones. The Serena stuff’s interesting, however.

June isn’t going to be reunited with Hannah for another15 years. Hannah will not remember anything about her pre-Gilead life except an occasional nightmare of being chased in the woods. That’s it. June’s life will be lived on the run as a terrorist, surviving at least one assassination attempt. Nichole will have been given to Mayday operatives to live under anonymity.

R214 Thanks for all the spoilers. Greatly appreciate it.

R213 But Nicole isn't Luke's child.

So we should just believe that all the liberal, open minded Canadians want Americans to go back to country where they would immediately be killed? Yeah, sure. They should have at least picked more redneck looking extras to play the hateful conservative Canadians, not the most social justice warriors looking ones.

How did Commander Lawrence went from being a nobody and just one of hundreds of commanders not that long ago, to one of the biggest shots in Gilead? Same with Nick. It seems like all the most important figures in Gilead, it just so happens to be, are from the same city that June was in. Isn't Gilead supposed to be almost the same size as the contiguous US? With millions of people?

Please, people, don't try to make sense of it. Because there is no sense to it at all. And can someone remiind me, where exactly is what's left of the US? And why can't people go there instead of Canada?

R219 a map

{quote] I know there’s no love for Elizabeth Moss here...

But you would be wrong! Even though I thought season 4 was repetitive and a bit overkill, she gave great performances in many of the episodes.

Here's Moss's startling performance when Serena begs June for forgiveness. I think Bradley Whitford said something like Moss is giving Meryl Streep-like performances every week. Oh yeah, she is.

[quote]r216 But Nicole isn't Luke's child.

Yet they are a family unit. Doesn’t Luke consider the baby his daughter at this point?

[quote] I know there’s no love for Elizabeth Moss here...

I have little respect for $cientologists, as a rule. But Moss is certainly an excellent actress.

R218 Commander Laurence was always a big shot. He is the architect of Gilead. Gilead is his vision. He now regrets it because of all the violence and corruption. He is now trying to change it because of his own g

^^^guilt.

One of my theories about why Moss NEVER stops working and is the most prolific actresses in decades is that it keeps her as far fucking away from the Scientologists as possible. They probably don’t mind as long as she tithes a couple million dollars a year. It seems like she never films anything in LA anymore too, which keeps her from being under their thumb. I wonder what Scientology is like in Canada?

I think people misconstrue about Lawrence’s power because we primarily met him when he was being censured for not having sex with his Handmaiden and they had those observers come in to make sure he preformed adequately. It was also shit like that that caused him to really turn on the religiosity of Gilead and it being a Theocracy. He’s much more of an intellectual academic most interested in political theory and creating a utopia, but probably felt that they were going to be able to keep the religion on check, but one must never underestimate the power of fanatics.

R217 This is a different timeline. Besides the suspect writing of the show (like how racial politics is nearly absent from the tv version compared to the book), the world of Handmaid's Tale is one of more stark population crises, environmental destruction, and victories of far right political parties, over not just the past years, but up to decades. The Canada here is one that's with the liberal evolution of the late 20th century, sure, but its also one still vulnerable to the politics that created Gilead. A large cohort of 'Millennial SJWs' would actually be 'Millennial Gileadians', if only because its the disaster of the day and with the revolution, there's a semblance of (new) institutional backing to whatever 'saves the world'.

That said, most Canadians would still be aghast at what's in the former USA, from what info has leaked, and would be handwringing on how much they think they can accomplish against it. But this period in history is one of normalization, with Canada seeing what it can tolerate from Gilead without resorting to a world war and/or decades of grinding struggle with an international occupation of former USA lands, and Gilead seeing what it can tolerate from the rest of the world without getting pushed internally into a grand crusade it can't afford. While these sides are debating and scheming and tip toeing, June is seething. She's seeing Gilead's children not know a world before it, she's now seeing more and more Canadians grasp for ways to tolerate or even accept Gilead to an extent that makes them feel good about themselves. This isn't so new as a concept - plenty of liberal democracies... really tolerate the hell out of brutal regimes. The stretch is that its former American dystopia right next door.

I think it’s actually June and Serena’s arrival that’s pushing Canada in to refugee fatigue, which usually happens to most countries in those situations where they get tired of so much resources going to these “others” at the expense of their own actual citizen. The news has been flooded with all things Gilead and the conflict that it’s causing, I think this level of backlash is most likely right on schedule.

Shouldn't June be a huge star in Canada? No one seems to know who she is.

I think it was in season 1 or season 2, it was mentioned that European countries were loosing up their immigration laws so people who fled Gliead could immigrate there. I also wonder if some of them moved to Alaska or Hawaii. Has the show ever addressed what happened to the US territories like Puerto Rico and Guam? Was it addressed in the book?

Elizabeth Moss looks gorgeous in the photo at OP.

Thinner? Photo coloring? She should wear color contacts if that's the case.

Madonna or young Jillian Anderson vibes...

Mary Astor in Maltese Falcon vibes.

For the posters confused as to why June would even consider returning to Gilead now: I’m sorry your mother’s didn’t love you.

R234 Where are these posters?

[quote]R172 Atwood already told us what happens to Serena at the end of the original novel.

[quote]r175 No.

[quote]R195 Yes. It’s revealed in the symposium.

I thought the lecturer couldn’t pinpoint exactly who Fred and Serena were, from looking at the surviving records. There were contradictions concerning each real life possibility. So therefore we can’t know exactly what happened to them?

Thank you r236.

One of the best parts of the original novel is its ambiguity. The story is told from found records, with little to no proof who any of the people discussed actually were and what their ultimate fates were.

It's haunting in a way the television series never can be.

Well, books are different from filmed entertainment. The novel is written in a spare, pure style. Horrible things are happening but remembered in a calm way.

Few want to watch a “calm” TV show or movie. You need heightened drama and conflict.

I think the book is great and the series is great.

This is kind of interesting to watch and see her evolution, and she looks great just as herself. While it’s acting in all the earlier scenes she looks at, for Handmaid she concentrates on her work as a director, using the state funeral scene and generously gives the focus to Yvonne’s acting instead of her own. It makes me want to watch Invisible Man again now that I know how some of it was done.

Yvonne's boobs are perfect.

^^^ Lecherous ol' so-and-so^^^

Is the name Yvonne pronounced “Eee-von”?

I’ve escaped knowing anyone with this name in life.

R242: ih - VONNE.

Thank you.

Another great episode of an excellent season. Finale is next week, he someone breaks down all the clues in the trail for the upcoming episodes.

in ep 9 they talk to Nick's wife and said something about some kind of genetic problems with nick's baby. I wonder what that was about. Did he marry his cousin or sister?

I wonder if it’s weirdly setting up some issue where he’ll need to reveal that Nicole is his actual child and they need some type of transfusion or genetic material from her for a repair?

I love Anne Dowd! She did great work in this show and I hope she shows up in the final season.

Nothing is actually a "spoiler" yet. They can change or rewrite any of the roles, scenes and deaths as they see fit. It's television, they don't have to stick to the book.

R247 Interesting theory. Gilead is trying to kill her. I wonder if she will go underground now. Only one ep left.

R247 IF you read the testaments, Gilead was trying to get baby Nicole back. So your theory is very plausible. If they find out Nicole is a commander's baby.

Serena on the run!

Will she turn to June??

So Nic's wife is his sister? Or a cousin? I hope this isn't the case as it will make me dislike him.

I have a feeling Serena and her spawn are gonna wind up on June's doorstep.

I liked June telling Lawrence about his wife's death. I'm assuming it was to hurt him because she was hurt.

Moss really deserves the Emmy this year. She's so great.

Here's a video of Yvonne watching some of Serena's meanest moments in the show.

At 1:46 she talks about that time in season 1 when she screamed "Do you understand me?" to June, who had just been thrown to the floor.

In season 4, June gets to scream that same line back to her when Serena is a prisoner in Canada, and she asks June for forgiveness.

Some people in the comment section of the video express disappointment the Yvonne is losing her Australian accent after years of working in the America. You can only hear traces of it now.

Yvonne also talks about how she believes Serena would want the whole show to end: "She'd kill everyone."

I think Serena will end up with Rita.

She’ll probably have the driver of the car she stopped, drop her off at Little America. Should be easy enough to find Rita or June from there

And here's June's season 4 "Do you understand me" payback to Serena moment at 2:10

R253 What is she filming in America? This show is filmed primarily in Canada?

Canada is America. North America.

r255, this line was used again this season during the birth episode. June says to it Serena when she decides to save her. I love that it has been said so many different ways in this show and each time with a different meaning.

good call about Serena tracking down Rita. We’ve seen Rita very conflicted over her relationship with Serena but this might be what she needs.

It is also possible Serena will hook up with Mark. He seemed to have a thing for her.

I could see some dark twist where it turns out Mark is playing Serena and he gets revenge on her because a relative or someone of his died in the war. In the past, I have wondered if Rita would ever avenge her son's death. But, I think it could be really dark if Mark has been plotting against Serena for a long time.

I wanted Serena to stay with the Wheeler's just long enough to choke Alanis out!

If Serena is returned to the Wheelers, blood will flow. And not in a monthly way.

Moss tore it up this season - TORE IT UP AND BURNED IT DOWN.

I have no patience or use for Scientology - may they all jump into the nearest volcano and meet Xenu, Miscavige and Miss Tammy can jump first. There is just no denying that Elizabeth Moss gets better and better as an actress and she tore it the fuck up throughout this series and definitely during this season.

Give that Scieno an Emmy! (Does she already have one for Handmaid's or Mad Men or more than one? I have no idea.)

I think she won Supporting for Mad Men, & also Lead for season 1 of HT?

Oh, so now you're actually going to make me look it up, r265?

I am not praising be over here.

Okay - she was nominated a bunch of times (4-5) for Mad Men, mostly as Best Lead Actress and once for Best Supporting - did not win any of them.

She's been nominated as Best Lead Actress several times for Handmaid's Tale and has won once (2017).

She's been nominated for a Best Lead Actress Tony for the Heidi Chronicles (2015) and did not win.

She's overdue for another Emmy for her work in the Handmaid's Tale. I hope she wins one.

She did, r265. But I think she deserves it again for this season. She's been outstanding.

[quote]R226 I am not praising be over here.

I want that tee shirt!

Wow, the last ep was insane. I knew when she was walking through the train what was going to happen.

What an intense season finale!

SPOILER ALERT!!!

I am terrified for poor Janine but it was absolutely thrilling to see her tell off Mrs. Putnam.

I can't stand Nick's fugly wife.

SPOILER ALERT!!!

Serena and June, together again. A great setup.

After not seeing Serena for the whole episode I immediately thought Serena was on the train when June and Luke were at the station. I loved the ending. Aunt Lydia is starting to turn against Gilead. I think we will see that next season. I hope Janine somehow manages to get away and take Charlotte with her. Wishful thinking I guess.

Spoiler Alert: I thought it was interesting that Luke and Nick are in jail and June and Serena are off to Hawaii together.

I have the feeling June will end up in jail next season and someone Nichole ends up with Serena.

I also wonder if Moira and Rita will end up in Hawaii as well. I recall in season 2, there was some mention about European countries taking in American refugees. I guess that has been dropped.

We all thought that r273.

This shows biggest issue is that character arcs that should be a season long end up being an episode long. Serena operating a Consulate and trying to sell the image of Gilead should have gone on for at least half the season. Instead, it was an episode long affair.

[quote]R272 [bold]SPOILER ALERT!!! [/bold]Serena and June, together again. A great setup.

I got chills!

June and Serena are going to settle down in Hawaii and open a Mommy & Me Day Spa and Fertility Clinic and make a killing. Season 6 is going to be a VERY different season.

What the fuck happened to Moira this season?

Did she have two lines all season?

She was a leading character and now…

It reminds me of Dr Melfi on The Sopranos

Moira’s apparently just the live in nanny, there to step in and take care of the baby so June and Luke can go off and have adventures. I guess they left her behind to be ripped to shreds by angry Canadians.

R281 well June did anyway. Luke might be ripped to shreds by angry Canadians.

Quite frankly I would have no problem with Luke being ripped to shreds, and in the last seconds of the episode I thought he might be the sacrifice for this season and provide some weird symmetry to last season and give June and Serena another reason to bond.

I thought Aunt Lydia was going to say: "Enough!".

Then I thought Serena was going to lick June's face.

Guess it's a great thing that I am not a script writer.

I love June’s facial expressions at the very end with Serena.

The next and last season will be a wild ride

Aunt Lydia eventually does say enough. As bad as Serena was to June, I can't help but like the idea, they will become if not friends at least allies. They are both very strong women and could really help each other. June has saved Serena's life a couple of times. when she pulled her away from a fire and then in this season she saved her and her baby again. I don't think June really dislikes Serena, I think she respects her.

The look on Serena’s face when she sees June….is it relief? Joy? Amusement? Love?

R287 Probably amusement because June is basically on her own with a child just like her.

Why was Daddy eyebrows detained? For punching Commender Lawrence? Or something else?

Because he punched Lawrence. R289

Maybe next season we’ll see that the Eyes that took Janine away are actually Mayday (arranged by Lawrence) to get Janine out. That’s one theory I have. The other is more sinister, and that’s Janine being sent to the colonies.

I hope not R291. Now we have to wait a whole year to find out.

I don’t see a season set in Hawaii. Aren’t they supposed to transfer somewhere else, first? I imagine that’s where they’ll get off and settle.

Also, they could be on that train for a few episodes, intercut with what’s happening to the other characters back home.

That is one long train ride to Hawaii.

And a wet one.

I rewatched the last part. The government guy says, “From Vancouver you should be able to get a boat to the States.”

Hawaii was June and Luke’s initial, abandoned plan before he showed up.

I think Aunt Lydia called her own guys to get Janine out, or at the least convinced Lawrence to do it. The way she kept threatening to make the call, but never goes to a phone. It was a plan to look innocent; the other Aunt Beast is onto her.

Nick’s wife - we don’t care! They didn’t develop her enough. Or significantly show the love they supposedly share. Serena on the train - they needed to show her earlier in the episode if they wanted real shock value. Or not show her escaping the previous episode. Luke getting charged - a bit implausible given his wife’s injuries & the man having a gun. Aunt Lydia - really effective. Commander wedding - creepy as hell. They gonna be miserable. Chilling, “ they never let anyone get away.” Serena & June aren’t safe on that train. Better a milk truck.

SPOILER ALERT!!!

How can Nick's wife say they can't be together anymore?

She lives in Gilead. Divorce is strictly forbidden. What does she intend to do?

Also, who was the Martha in the van with Janine at the end? Was she the one who told Janine about June?

Nick's wife will probably rat him out to other commanders.

Nick's wife is the daughter of a powerful commander.

Did anyone else notice the refugee train was only 3 cars long LOL

I hope they actually make it to Hawaii. They will have to get on a plane at some point. June could still be detained.

I don't think Serena or June will make to Hawaii. They will be sent back to Canada to be jailed.

This show is making Canada look very unappealing.

Somehow I don't see this grim show being shot in sunny, tropical Hawaii.

I think Gilead will divert that train to New Bethlehem.