Eldergays: Wasn't Montgomery Wards For People Who Couldn't Afford Sears?

No. They were on the same socio-economic level. Kmart was for people who couldn’t afford Sears and Monkey Ward.

These stores were in direct competition with one another and essentially the same level retailer.

By the 70s I think some categories at Monkey Wards had lost some quality. Hardware and paint for example. On the other hand I think Monkey Wards from the 60s tried to offer more contemporary home furnishings and clothing than Sears. I mean it hardly became Bloomingdales but you could get a "mod" sofa at Monkey Wards.

I always thought Wards was a little nicer than Sears.

R3 is correct. Sears grabbed the market on tools. They had a life time guarantee on their brand of tools that a broken tool could be returned and replaced for free.

However, Sears lost market on clothing, especially for teenagers. I remember my mother taking us school clothes shopping and we basically told her we weren’t even going to consider Sears because they largely carried lesser known brands than Wards.

Also, Sears killed their business in the 1980s. They were heavily pushing their Discover card and store charge card and for a short period of time refused to take Visa, Master Card or Amex. I don’t think they ever fully recovered from that stupid decision. They thought they could create an exclusive card for middle class people. Diner’s Club it ain’t.

It is funny to look back and see that when Montgomery Wards begin their first big nationwide push in downtowns across the country after WWI and into the 1920s, they were viewed like Walmart was and Amazon is.

Fashion!

Is Billy Baldwin a time traveler???

I thought that was for White Front or GEM. Sears and MW were middle class.

Doug Barr and Stephen Shortridge!

R7 I want everything on that page.

Funny you should mention this. At one time Sears and Montgomery Wards had an agreement. One had one side of the Mississippi and the other had the other. It was ruled noncompetitive. During my childhood, 1960s-70s, they were interchangeable, though as mentioned, Sears was preferred for appliances and tools.

At one point, Penney's was selling furniture, appliances and auto parts, along with their traditional soft goods lines. So basically Wards, Penneys and Sears were all vying for the same economic pie.

It's Montgomery Ward. Not Montgomery Wards.

We moved to a racially mixed neighborhood. My mom bought me a sheep skin lined pleather jacket and plaid pants for school. I quit wearing the jacket because so many kids tried to take it from me. That's my one memory of MW.

The stuff in r7 appears to be from the Johnny Bravo collection.

They sent me a bathtub and a cross-cut saw, FWIW.

"Monkey Wards" was occasionally branded just as "Wards" - with an s and no apostrophe. Towards the end. Montgomery Ward most of the time.

'63 catalog (Part 4)

Teh Brennans managed b oth into the ground

Ed's bro Bernard Brennan was CEO at Montgomery Ward

I stuck to the five & dime.

I just Googled and it's still around.

Yeah it's not really Wards. "The Swiss Colony" bought it and it's a mail-order crap emporium now. They claim it's Wards but nobody accepts that claim. It's mail order trash.

As did I, r22...

R7 Did people really dress like that? They look like bad 70’s Halloween costumes to me lol.

I didn’t realize Party City was so accurate.

I just went down a Montgomery Ward catalog rabbit hole. Here is a link to the catalog from 1916. Fascinating. Check it out if you have time.

JC Penney was on the same level as Montgomery Ward and Sears.

OP you are incorrect

Peter Graves wore an equally loud striped pair of pants the other night on Mission:Impossible, r26.

Didn't K-Mart and Sears merge a few years ago? Probably the death of both?

R31 Sometimes when I wonder stuff like that, I'll go to google.com

[quote]Montgomery Wards

Are there any psychologists or linguists here who can tell us why some people tend to add an "s" to store names? Besides just being imbeciles, I mean.

I loved it when we got the Christmas catalogs in the mail in the 70’s. It seems like Penney’s was a tad classier, more hip than Sears and MW.

R27- That catalogue is ALL WHITE therefore it's RACIST therefore it needs to be CANCELLED

Yes, r26, we did. The fringe jackets were especially popular. Davy Crockett style came into fashion.

Also those neckerchiefs were popular. I am wearing one in my first grade photo. Yes my mother dressed me like a gayling.

R36 Lol! I see!

So do you think the fringe and all that brown was kind of inspired by Indians and old American fashion?

It’s not exactly Cowboy but it is, “Davy Crockett”.

What was cool 70’s fashion in the early / mid 70’s before disco and punk?

And did cool people get their clothes from Sears? And this place Montgomery Ward?

Tony "Monty" Ward -star of Hustler White.

Beats Sears any day.

Like this is 1976.

Where would I have been able to buy these clothes?

PS The guy in this video is smoking fucking hot. His top is a little Davy Crockett, it’s definitely a 70’s earthy color.

Would people like this shop at Montgomery Ward and Sears?

R33 They’re the same people who say “Donna SummerS” and “George MichaelS”.

[quote] Are there any psychologists or linguists here who can tell us why some people tend to add an "s" to store names? Besides just being imbeciles, I mean.

Or maybe it's a preference for things sounding like possessives. "Charley's" (bar). Mrs. Gorton's fish sticks, etc.

"We're going over to Grandma's [house]."

No, In the '80s, my resolutely middle-class mother shopped for us at JCPenney, Montgomery Ward and Sears interchangeably.

I remember wearing clothes from JCP and Sears as a little kid, until I insisted on moving up to the Gap.

She bought appliances, electronics, and paint at Sears.

I can't remember what she bought at Wards, but we were dragged there on errands all the time. Maybe housewares? No, that was the Jones Store. I seriously can't remember a damn thing she bought there, but we went a zillion times.

For years the whole family boycotted Sears, because my dad bought a Black & Decker product in the early 1970s and it didn't work, but Sears wouldn't let him exchange it for some reason. We went to Wards because they had Stanley and sometimes Plomb, which were both good brands, I still have many of his old tools.

We also got our TV aerials from Wards, and they were huge and expensive, but always worked well.

Eventually mom was able to buy linens and a few things like that from Sears, mainly because what was at Wards and Penney's was expensive but of lower quality, or at least that's what she said.

Now that I think about it, my mom may have used Wards as a ringer—to convince me to wear some JCPenney clothes I didn't like because the boys' clothes at Wards were worse.

But I remember Montgomery Ward bags in our house, so she must have bought something there regularly.

Didn't have MG in my area. I recall thinking that Penney's was more upscale than Sears.

Here’s my Sears story:

As a young gayling in the early 1970s, the local Sears store had an electronics department that had a video camera set up and you could see yourself on tv. Most of the time women walked past it to judge how fat they looked.

My eight year old self determined that I was going to be a tv funny man and so I would go and pose in front of the camera and makes faces and judge how funny I was. I would swoon and primp and wave a cigarette around and “die” and go mad and mug like I had seen Lucille Ball do. People around must have thought I was nuts, but I didn’t care, I was on TV!!!!

[quote]Are there any psychologists or linguists here who can tell us why some people tend to add an "s" to store names?

It's a possessive. You may say "The JC Penney Company" but you can also say "JC Penney's store," i.e. "his store."

Colloquially, the same goes for many illnesses. For example, it's not technically "Alzheimer's disease," it's "Alzheimer disease," which is how it was written in medical reports for years. However, it's a disease named after Alois Alzheimer, and that's processed by English speakers as being his disease, which is why the possessive is so often used. (And I don't believe anyone bothers to use "Alzheimer disease" anymore, either, as the possessive form is common and accepted these days.)

Hall China for Montgomery Ward

Picture it: Sixth grade. My mother took me to Wards to buy new school clothes. I almost cried when she led me to the “husky boys” section. She said, “You’ll grow out of it.” And sure enough, just as I was getting my first pimple in Seventh grade, I was back in boy’s slim. But it was a year of dread that I was a fat, fat, fatty.

[quote]Are there any psychologists or linguists here who can tell us why some people tend to add an "s" to store names? Besides just being imbeciles, I mean.

R33, JCPenney was officially branded as Penney's from 1948 to 1971—on storefronts, in ads, etc. Montgomery Ward's house brand until 1971 was named Wards.

And you're an imperceptive CUNT.

R37, fake coonskin hats were also sold to wear with those fringe jackets. I can’t quite remember what started that Davey Crockett fad.

Very early 70s were still holdover from the 60s. Bell bottom pants (which were designed to mimic sailor pants) were fashionable. Also for men, two toned shoes were popular and men were wearing shoes with higher heels.

The closer it got to 1976, America’s Bicentennial, everything was red, white and blue. Flag shirts, flag pants, flag bandanas. You didn’t see brown or green anything!

I can't hear the name Montgomery Ward without thinking of Margaret Cho.

R40- They look very 1980's for 1976 which is NOT a good thing because I've always hated music and the so called fashion of the 1980's.

Trivia: Back before the internet, a friend was hired to do the costumes for a professional production of Oklahoma!. He got hold of a 1905 Montgomery Ward mail order catalog and used it for both research and inspiration.

I remember when our neighborhood got a "fancy new mall" where the anchor stores were Montgomery Ward's (trash) and the May Co. (class!)

Of course we had a Crown Books, a Wherehouse Records, and Orange Julius, and a Spencer's Gifts among other mall staples of the era.

There was also a Mexican restaurant that had two old women near the front making hand made tortillas (also considered class!) and an Irish pub called Gilhooly's (trash?) There was whispered conversation as to why you should stay away from the men's restroom at Gilhooly's, but hey, why would I want to eat at an Irish pub wjen I could get a STRAWBERRY JULIUS at the Orange Julius?

There were also four miniscule movie theaters were I saw such 70's classics as Shampoo and Taxi Driver alongside more camp offerings such as Murder by Death.

No food court though.

Which is why the cool new mall became the shit mall once the Glendale Galleria opened a couple of years later.

Food court! Glass elevator! I. Magnin!

OMG! I forgot the most exciting about the Glendale Galleria: mannequins with nipples! Even the guys. (Squee!)

And Farrah Foster posters everywhere featuring more nipples!

It was Nipplepalooza!

R56: ....and a Buffums. Though when I went in, no men's department.

I think Buffums was the first place I saw a video recording machine that came along with an white plastic console television set.

It cost some insane amount of money like two thousand dollars which would be close to ten thousand now.

It wasn't even VHS.

I don't think it was even betamax.

There are grown ups who have never even heard of betamax.

[quote]I almost cried when she led me to the “husky boys” section.

This was heard all over the mall that day,

"But Mother... I'm a petite."

"Get your little gay butt over to the fat section now!"

Neat site with old catalogs, page by page. MW, JCP and Sears. I actually remembered some of the covers in the 70’s.

[quote] Which is why the cool new mall became the shit mall once the Glendale Galleria opened a couple of years later. Food court! Glass elevator! I. Magnin!

There was no I. Magnin at the Galleria. The only one in the area was at Sherman Oaks Fashion Square.

Does anyone remember the Ward's credit card with punch-card holes? I had one (probably still do, somewhere.)

I won a Sony Betamax on $10,000 Pyramid, r59.

I wonder what happened to Saul Needleman, r63.

r65 He's fine! He sends his love!

dolls

R51 wins the thread.

Unrelated, but I happened upon a Montgomery Ward('s) liquidation sale and got the best valet stand I've ever had. It was $5, no tax. This was 1999.

Montgomery Ward is a perfect example of how a company might think they survived a bad CEO but it is only a superficial recovery and they are really suffering internal hemorrhaging. The company never really recovered from Sewell Avery's leadership.

LET US GET THIS STRAIGHT. Montgomery Ward is DEFUNCT as of 2001. The current THING that has the name Montgomery Ward is NOT really the same entity. The current thing HAS NO STORES. It is a mail order CRAP PRODUCT company.

Is this clear now. I told it to you above so I wouldn't have to tell you again. And now I'M TELLING YOU AGAIN. Montgomery Ward is NO MORE.

You can buy the brand "Pan Am" and stick it on an old prop commuter plane and fly Poughkeepsie - Woonsocket. It does not make it Pan Am.

Ah, back when Americans of all income levels bought almost all nonfood items at one of three major retailers. The appliances were made in Kentucky and Ohio. The clothing was made in North Carolina. The furniture was made in Michigan. The dock supervisor could support a family on his income alone. And the merchandise was renowned for its quality and durability.

Is even one piece of this true today?

What is with elders gays obsession with department stores especially obsolete ones.

Your condescension is duly noted, r73.

I had an aunt who did quite well for herself selling furniture at Montgomery Wards.

R73, you had to be there. The old department stores were magical. Weirdly, it was the 1980s "retail as theater" that actually ruined department stores. I actually went with my mother to "buy" her clothes from a live model. We would then return for at least two fittings. Even Sears was magic. It had a candy department with certain things such as butter toffee peanuts being made on site. It is still a major sensory memory for me. There was also the joy of receiving a gift with fancy department store wrapping. The special, elaborate wrapping was an additional charge. The wrapping was almost better than the gift inside. I miss the displays of Christmas costume jewelry and charm bracelets (What ever happened to charm bracelets?, and don't mention Pandora.)

R73 you’ll probably be the same way with an obsolete online store 20 yrs from now

Can someone explain "Monkey Ward". I'm kind of afraid to ask, but my curiosity has gotten the better of me.

I'm GenX, so we're probably the last generation to really understand what was so great about department stores, even though we caught the tail end and most of ours were in malls.

R78, is is similar to J. C. Penneé.

Montgomery Ward mansion. Cheap(ish) to buy, but you'll get fucked sidewise over property taxes if you live there for any number of years.

R78 Monkey Wards because most of the stores had a dressed monkey at the fresh Caramel Corn & Candy kiosk. He even played a drum sometimes. Or the xylophone. Like in olden times.

R32 I love you!

[quote][R78], is is similar to J. C. Penneé.

Or today's "Tarjay"

R14, reminds me of the clueless who ad an "s" to Nordstrom.

You see a lot of resurrected brand names that apparently still have some goodwill attached to them despite the fact that the original companies are long defunct and have manufactured anything in decades. Examples: Bell & Howell seems to have its name plastered on any number of "As Seen on TV" products that are wholly unrelated to their original business. Same with RCA, Magnavox, Polaroid, Westinghouse, etc.

My grandmother's entire career was as a gift wrapper at Sears. She knew every wrapping trick in the book!

R76 makes me feel it's time for another "favorite defunct department store" thread (whatever R73 may think of it). You go to any store now, you feel like the company is just trying to put one over on you as well as on the salespeople, cutting costs down to the bone to increase profits. Look at Whole Foods just in the last half decade. The whole idea of quality and professionalism is dead (and I'm feeling this in other areas, too).

Out of all the name brands Swiss Colony could bring back as a mail order concern, Montgomery Ward is the least offensive and most appropriate. It started as a mail order house. So even though I've never bought anything from the new MW I do enjoy the nostalgia when I'd get a catalog in the mail box.

As an 80s kid in small town Wisconsin, my only exposure to Montgomery Ward was a mail-order catalogue that another store downtown kept in the back. I vaguely remember my family treating the idea of browsing the catalogue with some reverence, and I was allowed to look through the toy section a few times around Christmas. I think at one point, it was the only way to get a Teddy Ruxpin locally.

Was this normal in small town America by the 80s? From the sounds of other posts here, this may have been when the company started transitioning to mail order? From what I can recall, I don't think there were any Montgomery Ward stores in southern Wisconsin by the point, if there ever had been.

No, for most of us, we had stores. But, just like Sears and Penney's they also had a catalog. My local store was one of the last to close, it was also the last store at the mall it was in. After their bankruptcy and closure another company bought the rights to the name and logos and brought them back as a mail order only catalog. Prior to 1923 the original MW was catalog only, as well. As we had one I never saw a catalog type store for them, but I did know of a town with a JC Penney one.

'Fess up -- how many of you here are proud graduates of the Wendy Ward Charm School?

I grew up in North Carolina in the 60s and 70s. We traveled around the state on vacations and to visit relatives, so i got to know the major department stores of the day -- Belk, Ivey's, Thalheimers, JCPenny and Sears.

I'd never heard of Montgomery Ward until one opened in the new South Square Mall in Durham, NC in August 1975. I was unimpressed by this store. Nothing special at all. Seemed to be a rung below JC Penny and Sears. None of the merchandise looked to be of any great value or quality. I'm sure I spent some money on some small things over the years at that Montgomery Ward, but I honestly could not today tell you anything I ever bought there.

I would later learn that Montgomery Ward was supposed to be the first of what they hoped to be a string of stores in NC malls. However, to the best of my knowledge, it was the only NC location the chain ever had.

Because it apparently failed to catch on, Montgomery Ward pulled out of its lease and departed the state in the early 80s. Once MW departed, it was replaced in the mall by an Ivey's (a chain that would be bought out by Dillards in the early 90s).

r92 North Carolina Wards (not necessarily a complete list):

Asheville - 3 S Tunnel Road - Asheville Mall - Originally The Bon Marche, later Meyers-Arnold, then Uptons, (Opened in 1994) - Closed in 2000. Currently Dillard's Men's, Children's and Home.

Durham - South Square Mall - (Opened in 1975) - Closed in 1985. Later Ivey's, then Dillard's before closing in 2002. Demolished with entire mall for the new South Square, an outdoor shopping center.

Greensboro - Carolina Circle Mall - (Opened in August 1976) - Closed in 2002. Demolished with the entire mall. Site is currently Walmart.

Rocky Mount - Tarrytown Mall

R92 That is because of that stupid CEO I mentioned up thread. At one time I'm sure there were several MW's in NC in the 1920s/early30s, but during the depression that CEO cut staff and closed hundreds of stores. Then after he fought the government all during WWII creating problems for the company, he was convinced that after WWII the country would experience a new depression, so he didn't join Sears and the others in the suburbs and malls. Then after his departure the company remained playing catchup until they closed.

"There was no I. Magnin at the Galleria. "

It must have been a Joseph Magnin then.

Yes, there was a Joseph Magnin at the Galleria, and before that at Glendale Fashion Center. And there was also a branch at Sherman Oaks Fashion Square.

Montgomery ward was for people who couldn't afford Walmart.

When I was a kid we lived for a few years in a town that was very "middle of nowhere" and the Sears Catalog was a primary source for shopping for all kinds of things. I remember my mom calling in the order, then after some period of time the order would arrive at a Sears catalog outlet location (I can't remember exactly what it was called....it was not a Sears store where you could shop, you just picked up your order there).

Thanks for the link to old catalogs R61! I remember some of those catalog covers and some of the merchandise too. On page 420 of the 1975 Sears Christmas Book.....that mustard yellow 10-speed bike was my bike! I remember obsessing over it in the catalog. I was disappointed I didn't get it for Christmas that year, but got it the next spring for my birthday. I remember asking for that one instead of the red white and blue one, because it was a little cheaper and I thought that would increase my odds of getting it!

The Sears catalog must have been like Amazon. Ordering a wide array of things that arrives in the mail.

The Monkey Wards in my town had a tea room.

While attending a Catholic high school, my mom bought me three piece suits from the Spiegel catalog, in the late 1970s. We had to wear shirts and ties, with a jacket or sweater, in school. I loved those suits, they had reversible vests. One side was solid color, the other side was houndstooth.

Sear's made a very fatal mistake when they ended their printed catalog in the 1990s. The company was famous for it, and millions of customers bought from it. The internet was in its infancy. So people ordered through catalogs.

I have a scratchy wool blanket of my grandparents’ that was from JC Penny. I never use it unless it’s freezing. But I believe Tasteful Friends would get some staple household items from them back in the day.

And Grace Kelly, or someone else surprising, got the shoes the kids in her bridal party wore from J.C. Penney. I wish I could remember who that was.

R102 I don't understand why they couldn't figure out how to replicate it on the internet. They should've been Amazon.

My mother shopped for me at a southern chain called Belk. I had a million Saddlebred shirts. She wouldn't spring for Polo.

At any rate, when I was early 20's, I worked at MW for while. They are famous for the Christmas Toys section. I remember rationing Furbys.

Where do you think I acquired my "trace of a lisp", r91?

Did Belk buy Leggett's or was it one of the Best Foods/Hellmann's type things?

R107 Belk had a unique store system. Instead of the company just opening stores in new areas, or franchising them, they would instead set up partnerships usually they were co branded such as Belk-Matthews but the Leggett family were powerful enough to just brand their stores under their own name.

R107 the Virginia stores are called Belk-Leggett. The rest are still Belk.

R109 Some Leggetts were also just Leggett but they did use a variation of the typeface that was used for the old, much missed Belk logo.

My Grammy thought Leggett's was the shit. That was her store over all the others.

Looking at R7, I hear this in my head:

Everybody's talkin' at me

I don't hear a word they're sayin'

Only the echoes of my mind

People stoppin', starin'

I can't see their faces

Only the shadows of their eyes

I'm going where the sun keeps shinin'

Through the pouring rain

[quote]r91 'Fess up -- how many of you here are proud graduates of the Wendy Ward Charm School?

Great link : )

I like the handbook’s admonishment:

[italic]”Wearing tight dresses or low cut sweaters has nothing to do with Feminine Appeal - THEY JUST MAKE EVERYONE UNCOMFORTABLE.”

[bold]: o

[r56] Eagle Rock is the woooorst

R98, In the 1960s, JC Penny used the East German format. There were JC Penny catalog outlets. They had items on display, but not for sale. One could only place or pickup catalog orders there. I remember it as being rather cool. Since the items were not for sale, the display was more museum like.

I finally remembered one thing my family bought at Montgomery Ward.

One night after dinner in seventh grade, I timidly approached my father and said school required me to buy an "athletic supporter" for the wrestling unit in PE.

He said OK, let's go to the mall. Then he yelled to my mother to bring him the checkbook. Why, she asked.

"OUR SON NEEDS A JOCKSTRAP," he yelled back.

He got the checkbook, we went to Montgomery Ward's sporting-goods department (which was quite extensive), and he bought me the jockstrap. Then we got TCBY on the way home.

The unabashed dykery!

R117’s picture proves that Diane Keaton didn’t create that look for Annie Hall.

[quote]I don't understand why they couldn't figure out how to replicate it on the internet. They should've been Amazon.

Amazon sold books when it started out. It was only later it branched out

[quote] so i got to know the major department stores of the day -- Belk, Ivey's, Thalheimers, JCPenny and Sears.

The first three are not famous, unless you're Aunt Bee or Opie

[quote]is is similar to J. C. Penneé.

Give credit to Redd Foxx for that.

[quote]I had an aunt who did quite well for herself selling furniture at Montgomery Wards.

You left out that she didn't work at the store.

[quote]JCPenney was officially branded as Penney's from 1948 to 1971

Just in certain areas of the country

[quote] They’re the same people who say “Donna SummerS” and “George MichaelS”.

Who would do this?

[quote]Didn't K-Mart and Sears merge a few years ago? Probably the death of both?

Kmart bought Sears and since Sears had a classier image, the Kmart Corp became Sears.

r70

You must be Lillian Verner

For a while Montgomery Ward was owned by Mobil.

Mobil was a merger of Standard Oil Of New York (SOCONY) and Vacuum Oil

There are 4 Kmarts remaining in continental USA. Why do they even bother?

R120 Prior to the standardization of department stores, very few "quality" department stores were famous outside of their market. Macy's, Gimbels, Marshall Field's and the much lower Orbach's were a few who were known nationwide. Marshall Field's ended up owning Ivey's at one point.

🙊 My cousins referred to it as Monkey-Wards

R130 Welcome to the thread. Did you bother reading any of it?

My mall had Sears on one end and MW on the other end. JC Penny and Hecht's were in the center.

R7...I had striped bell bottom pants like that one....and the same fringed vest, I'm ashamed to say....lol. I thought it looked so cool back then. I didn't get them at Monkey Wards, though.

Where I grew up, the classier Six Flags Mall had Sears and JCP. The lower-end Forum 303 had MW and Leonard's which became Dillards.

We shopped at Cox, my clothes all came from Cummings.

r126 - It's Vernon, you idiot.

Back in the 70's when credit was scarce Sears was the only card this gayling could get. $500 limit and I felt like I was finally an adult

Montgomery Ward had an odd way of being in some markets and not others, so it wasn’t quite as ubiquitous as Sears or Penney’s. I may be wrong but I’m not sure they were in the NYC area at all, at least in the mall era 70s/80s. They weren’t in Philly either, but their Jefferson Ward discount department store chain was. They were in the DC area but never Atlanta. Pittsburgh yes, but not Cincinnati, etc.

JC Penny was a step above Wards.

Meh! It was no Robert Hall!

R138 I didn't realize they weren't in Atlanta. Mine was in Augusta, it is strange if there is a national retailer that we have and Atlanta doesn't.

MW always reminds me of the Bewitched episode when Samantha has to entertain some rich, snooty wives of Darrin’s clients. They’re talking about their personal dress makers and one of them asks Sam who makes her clothes. She answers, “Oh, I have two. Their names are Sears and Roebuck.”

I thought she should have said “Montgomery and Ward.”

[quote]Macy's, Gimbels, Marshall Field's and the much lower Orbach's

Until they started renaming other chains they owned (e.g., Bamberger's), Macy's was only in northern California, Missouri-Kansas, and the New York area (but not NJ) under the Macy's name. Gimbel's was only the northeast. Marshall Field was only in the upper midwest. Orbach's was in New York and Los Angeles.

Other than JCPenney, Sears, and Montgomery Ward, the only regular (i.e., not discounters) department stores were local, even though they may have been part of a larger chain.

It was *no* Berrenger's.

R143 True but they still were known nationally, for Macy's and Gimbals if for nothing else than the parade and Miracle on 34th street. And, Orbach's was known simply for providing most of the women on tv with their wardrobes.

Montgomery Ward may have been a national brand, but it was never as well known as Sears or JCPenney. Or even K-Mart for that matter.

I'll say one thing- Walmart is definitely a store for the POORS.

When Orbach's on 34th Street closed in 1986 (or early 1987?) I was working a couple blocks away and was new to the city with a fancy job and low salary. I went to the fixtures sale and bought 8 huge mirrors. It was probably my spending money for the month. I carried each one from the shop to my office. And then I gradually took each one home on the subway, after hours, to Park Slope. Nobody stopped me, though each mirror was quite huge maybe 7 feet. I lined them up in my destroyed but once elegant dining room and pretended it was a palace.

One by one more department stores shuttered. Now, many decades later, the only lost department store I though was extra sad was B. Altman and Co. It wasn't so much that the merchandise was exceptional, but the flagship was very elegant and airy in its volumes and wasn't overdone or underdone.

Screw all these answers.

Lord *and* Taylor was the best. Chic, yet approachable.

Bullock's Wilshire

White Front was a big chain until the mid 70's, a little more upscale than Montgomery Wards.

It was no Yellow Front, r151...

White Front on the west coast, don't be argumentative.

Where did Woolworth's fit into all of this? I do remember the stores being open in my town and the diner-type restaurants inside the store. (Really good food, in my memory.) But I don't remember shopping for clothing or seeing clothing inside of a Woolworth's.

Woolworths was a dime store. The equivalent of Family Dollar, but bigger. The main location in Greensboro, where the sit-ins took place, had a famous rock bottom basement. It was very popular. This was the 70's and times were tough for a lot of people.

[quote]1961 Ideal Carol Brent doll or Ideal Liz doll, 15 1/2" tall, looks like Tammy's mom but taller, Carol Brent was sold thru Montgomery Ward Department stores and catalogs, very detailed hands, both dolls marked on head: M-15-L and on back; ® Ideal Toy Corp. M-15. Separate fashions were available.

R154, my hometown had a Woolworths and a Spurgeon's in the downtown square. I don't think Spurgeon's was ever widespread, but it was a department store chain in the upper Midwest. Both were holdovers from the earlier part of the century and closed their stores in my town in the early 80s.

I remember the closing of the Woolworths in particular was treated as almost the passing of an age. There were no soda counters or old fashioned candy shops in town after that. JC Penney and Kmart had supplanted those stores, and then in the 90s, Walmart came in and closed both of them down.

[quote][R37], fake coonskin hats were also sold to wear with those fringe jackets. I can’t quite remember what started that Davey Crockett fad.

In the mid 1950s, Disney made several serials about Davy Crockett starring Fess Parker with Buddy Ebson as his sidekick. They were shown on the Disneyland TV series and created a sensation with young boys.

The funny thing is the real Davy Crockett thought coonskin hats were uncomfortable and wore felt hats himself.

I remember those malls, R134! Both outdone by the mall off of I-30, it was called The Parks, maybe?? It’s been over 25 years since I’ve been in the area.

Woolworth’s was on a lower level than Monkey Wards and Sears.

But you have to remember something. This was in the days before cheap Chinese crap. So even though Woolworth’s was cheaper, many of their things were still good quality because they were produced in the US or countries that took pride in quality. Woolworth’s had some beautiful Christmas decorations that were well made and lasted for years. I still have Christmas ornaments my grandparents bought at Woolworth’s in the 1940s.

[quote] Montgomery Ward may have been a national brand, but it was never as well known as Sears or JCPenney. Or even K-Mart for that matter.

I'd agree if we are talking about the mall era, but before that they were as well known as Sears was.

Woolworth had some made in Taiwan stuff and it was sought after. There was always something you could buy in Woolworths. I would love to have a couple vintage dime store perfume sets, never opened and possibly in good shape.

I found a million dollar baby...

Many of the "five-and-dime" or variety stores of the past tried out a discount formula. Woolworth's had Woolco, Kresge created K-Mart (which was by far the most successful of the bunch), GC Murphy had Murphy Mart, W.T. Grant had Grant City, etc.

And then some of the discounters were birthed by mainstream department stores: Dayton-Hudson begat Target, JCPenney had The Treasury, The May Co. had Venture, Rich's had Richway, etc.

[quote]Montgomery Ward may have been a national brand, but it was never as well known as Sears or JCPenney.

Well, that's obviously a blatant lie. The trolls don't even try.

DL can talk about the obscure and get into the weeds, but you don't get a 165 post thread about something that isn't pretty well known.

[quote]My mother took me to Wards to buy new school clothes. I almost cried when she led me to the “husky boys” section.

I had husky pants from Montgomery Wards when I was in elementary school. I think at the time the regular pants would be for boys who were rail thin, which I wasn't, but I wasn't fat. There were two boys in my class who were the fatties and I was way slimmer than them. I suppose what was husky in the 70s would be standard today.

Anyone remember Hechts? I think they all became Macy's

I miss Frederick & Nelson and Bullocks.

I liked Bullocks Men's Store at the Beverly Center (WeHo). I bought all my work clothes there.

This thread reminds me of the Sears Christmas Catalog which, when I was a child, I used to look at so much it was almost like a friend for the last quarter of the year.

Mama would say, “That underwear is too big for you.” And I’d say, “Not the underwear, Mama! I want the man. I want the man, Mama!”

I bought the OBC recording of FOLLIES at this Woolco in 1971.

Five and dimes were originally literally 5¢ and 10¢. Everything was either 5¢ or 10¢. A penny was worth more then. Early 20th century trade magazines often had articles about the problem of the 7¢ item, e.g., an item that had no profit at 5¢ and was overprices at 10¢. Even in the early 20th century, Five and Dimes were notorious for Made in Japan merchandise. Also, Germany produced a lot of what was the equivalent of today's Made in China crap. Not everything was made in the USA.

Woolworth's business plan was that they owned all of their properties. They were successful because they never paid rent. Of course this changed in the 1980s. Woolworth's went out of business in the USA because the parent company took all of the profits it start Footlocker and put no money back into Woolworth's

And for our troll, while the store was originally F. W. Woolworth, it was rebranded as Woolworth's early on.

R172, I laughed at that picture because it is so evocative of “industry” pictures of a certain time period. The businessman in the foreground with the “project” behind him.

Two other “standard” poses are:

everyone in suits (businessman, city council) with shovels “ready to start construction”

The suited businessman in deep conversation with the hardhat wearing construction team

[quote] Woolworth's business plan was that they owned all of their properties. They were successful because they never paid rent.

That is how I would want to run a business, yet, today many of the retailers don't actually own any of their locations they selloff the property and then lease it back. Which I do not understand at all.

r142

Snooty Lady) This chair goes back to Louis the Fourteenth

Curly Howard) That's nothing to be ashamed of, my couch went back to Sears and Roebuck the third

[quote]Woolworth's business plan was that they owned all of their properties. They were successful because they never paid rent.

That was actually Sears downfall. Because it was one of the first to expand, it went into all sorts of neighborhoods in the cities. When the areas were being gentrified, the land Sears was on, was worth more than the store would be, so they sold it.

r167

Are you sure? I remember Huskies at Sears but not Wards.

Laverne) What are we doing in this store? We can't afford anything here

Shirley) We'll just browse around, see the latest styles and trends, then go right over to Woolworth and buy the same thing

At the start of WWII, Alvah Curtis Roebuck was asked if he was sorry he asked Richard Sears to buy him out for $20,000 when the company was worth millions now, he said:

I'm happy with my money, as for Sears, he's dead, long dead. I on the other hand, have never felt better.

Sears died in 1914 at age 50, whilst Roebuck died in 1948 at age 84

[quote]Anyone remember Hechts? I think they all became Macy's

Hecht's was a Baltimore/Washington department store chain that was acquired by the May Co. in 1959. When Federated acquired the May Co. in 2005, they were all rebranded as Macy's.

My brother was a husky and it was at Sears, as we didn’t have Monty Wards where we lived. I would tease him about it, being skinny myself, which was mean of me. He grew out of his Husky period in high school.

I remember people would put stuff on “lay away” back then at Sears. I still don’t know how that worked. Was there a storage area in the store where they’d keep the items until the customer paid cash in full? Unimaginable today with easy to get credit cards and people wanting instant gratification.

R56 - was there an i. magnin at the Glendale Galleria? I have always been intrigued by that store’s history, but have never heard mention of one in glendale. know there were outposts in Pasadena, Beverly Hills, Santa Barbara, and apparently 2 in Palm Springs….

[quote]Five and dimes were originally literally 5¢ and 10¢

Wrong, r173, you could get penny candy.

Does anyone from the Midwest remember Venture?

They were like K-Mart, only marginally cleaner, and they always smelled like burnt popcorn.

[quote]Does anyone from the Midwest remember Venture?

Mentioned at R164.

r183 It was discussed above. The person who mentioned it apparently had it confused with Joseph Magnin, which did indeed have a store in the Glendale Galleria. The two closest I. Magnin locations to Glendale were Sherman Oaks Fashion Square and Pasadena.

[quote]you could get a "mod" sofa at Monkey Wards.

And this was somehow perceived as a "good thing"?

When I got my first apartment after I got my first job out of college (in 1974), my first big purchase was a green faux-leather sofabed from Grant's. I remember the shopping center was anchored by Wards and Grant's.

Bullock's Pasadena

I love that store. Macy's hasn't ruined it too much, fortunately.

Where I grew up, MW was at the mall where white people [italic]used[/italic] to go.

Bullock's vs. Macy's

Bullock's Wilshire

R194 That is the one I would love to have experienced.

Also, did it not cause confusion to have Bullock's and Bullocks Wilshire, as well as I. Magin and Joseph Magnin, all serving the same geographic area? Especially the Magin stores since they were both high-end.

We shopped Bullock's Pasadena. My mother said Bullock's Wilshire was for Hollywood trash and would not be caught dead there.

Huell visits B'sW...

R197 I've watched that and I bet you those old broads were a real hoot when the cameras weren't rolling.

I don’t give a flyin’ fuck about some ancient store called Bullocks! For the love of God!

Has anyone mentioned Buffum's?

Bullock's Wilshire was the upscale version of Bullock's, but there was no connection between the two Magnin chains. I. Magnin was more high-end; Joseph Magnin was more trendy younger women's clothing.

Fashion bar

R201 I wouldn't say no connection. Joseph Magnin was literally I. Magnin's son.

I meant there was no corporate/ownership connection, unlike Bullock's/Bullock's Wilshire.

I'd say Wards was a half a step below Sears...Sears was very middle class while Wards was lower middle/middle class.

My small Midwestern town of 5500 had a JC Penneys store and then Sears and Wards each had a catalogue store which stocked appliaces but nothing else and was the pick up place for the stuff you ordered from their catalogues. We also had a Woolworth and another five and dime store.

They're all gone now.

R205 It’s JC Penney not JC Penneys

Or Penneys as it was branded at times.

R206

Shut the fuck up.

I don't care what the "official" name was. People called it Penneys just like they called it Wards.

I still have a MW sleeping bag my grandmother got me for sleep overs---the flannel inside is patterned with HORSES!!!!

OMG, r209, I had that same sleeping bag!

Fuck you r208! I’m not an imbecile like you and I pronounce it like it’s supposed to be. You big flop!

Sears

[quote]Are you sure? I remember Huskies at Sears but not Wards.

I didn't have any clothes from Sears. My clothes were from Wards, JCPenney and local department stores. It's easy to find Ward catalog images that show that they sold Husky sizes.

The abbreviation was Montgy Wards, hence, it became Monkey Wards.

There was never an East/West of the mississippi between them and Sears.

The main difference from series was the lack of recognizable high value house brands like Die Hard batteries, Craftsman tools, or Kenmore appliances. Sears sold mediocre stuff like their home electronics and their auto stuff often wasn’t great quality (their tires before they bought from Michelin). They screwed up by being late to start building new stores again. They wouldn’t up in grade B malls or no malls at all.