Why It’s Time to Take The L Out of LGBT

Alongside a growing number of lesbians, I believe that we have, in recent decades, become ever more invisible and irrelevant.

I have been told that my 40-plus years of campaigning for lesbian rights, and against all forms of discrimination towards women, is irrelevant because I have dared to speak out against the Stonewall transgender ideology that appears to have taken over the entire same-sex community.

I have been labelled ‘homophobic’, ‘biphobic’ and ‘transphobic’ for asking when lesbians will get any attention from the so-called LGBT organisations that purport to speak on my behalf.

‘Get The L Out’ is a grassroots campaign group founded to fight back. They were at Pride Cymru to protest at the continued invisibility and marginalisation of lesbians within the ever-expanding Pride umbrella.

“Many gay men have viciously turned against us”

This now includes, it seems to me, more straight people than it does gay, what with male ‘kinksters’ who have a penchant for choking women, or those with a foot fetish, all of whom can be defined as Queer according to the modern proponents of the rainbow flag.

Police accused the women of ‘causing confrontation’, to which one protester replied: ‘We’re lesbians: it’s Cardiff Pride.’

The women were making it clear to the police that, as lesbians, they have every right to be there. The demand for respect and inclusion need not be confrontational, but Get The L Out were making an important point: that Pride has been taken over by groups that seem to have a visceral dislike for lesbians.

Yet it was they who were forced to leave — not the trans supporters shouting at them and grabbing their banners.  Police claimed ‘Get The L Out’ had not registered as a protest group for the march and therefore had no right to be there — but surely at Pride, of all places, those women should have the absolute right to speak out. They are talking about issues that have had a profound effect on young lesbians.

What on earth has brought us to this? How is it that lesbians have been made to feel so unwelcome within what is supposedly our own community?

And why have so many gay men joined the extreme trans-activists in turning against us so viciously? The truth is that this schism in the LGBT alliance is nothing new.

I have been beaten up in gay clubs by fascists whilst gay men turn a blind eye, and then disbelieved by police when I reported it. I know of many women who have had the same experience.  I was assaulted outside Edinburgh University, after I had delivered a speech on male violence, because I was deemed to be a bigot for not agreeing that ‘trans women are women’.

I thought lesbians had come a long way since the 1970s, when neither we, nor gay men, were protected in law against discrimination. The very word ‘lesbian’ was considered repulsive, and I felt pressurised into using the term ‘gay’, to soften the blow.

Neighbours on our housing estate told me I was a pervert and unsafe to babysit their children; they asked if something had happened in my childhood to make me ‘hate men’.

After meeting feminists for the first time in 1979, when I was 17, I finally began to feel proud of my sexuality.

We shared some social spaces with gay men, because we weren’t wanted in mainstream society, but although we played nicely what we had in common was always limited. After all, we were women and therefore faced sexism on top of other discrimination — often from gay men themselves.

As we moved into the 1980s, in addition to Gay Pride parades, we began having Lesbian Strength marches for women only — named in recognition of the fact that it took a certain amount of courage and tenacity to be an out lesbian in those days.

Stereotypes about being ‘butch’ led many women to reject this term, but we managed to overturn those stereotypes to some extent. Lesbians are often severely punished for rejecting men sexually, and in my experience face far more pressure to marry a man and do the conventional thing.

Gay men, meanwhile, now have more freedom to live their own lives, and these days are, I believe, far more celebrated within society and popular culture than lesbians.

“Lesbians are labelled bigoted and fascist”

Of course, when the AIDS epidemic hit in the mid-1980s it brought terrible prejudice, bigotry and violence towards homosexual men. Many lesbians directly supported gay men through this terrible time.

Section 28 (the homophobic legislation that forbade schools from ‘promoting homosexuality’) was introduced by the Thatcher government in 1988. This was the very first time that lesbians and gay men had been targeted together by legislation, and we joined forces. But for many lesbians, it was an unhappy alliance.

Thus cemented together, we became ‘lesbian and gay’, then LGB to include bisexuals; and thereafter, the initial letters of other groups having nothing whatsoever to do with same-sex attraction (such as transgender, asexual, aromantic, and queer) have simply been added on.

The current tongue-twisting acronym, at its most expansive I have heard given, is LGBTQQIAAPPO2S. As my friend Simon Fanshawe pointed out, this is more like an unbreakable WiFi code.

Whereas lesbians and gay men share being vilified for same-sex attraction, others represented by these letters do not necessarily have anything in common with us at all. And no one has the right, whether they represent the G, T, or Q, to tell lesbians what to do.

Today the word ‘lesbian’ has become stigmatised afresh. Young lesbians seem to be under pressure to call themselves queer or non-binary, or become trans men.

And we are under pressure not only to accept the idea that male-bodied trans women are lesbians, but also to accept them as sexual partners.

Stonewall’s CEO Nancy Kelley has branded the notion of lesbians rejecting trans women as ‘analogous to issues like sexual racism’. As someone who grew up being told that all I needed was a ‘good man’ to ‘cure me’ of my sexual perversion, this does not sit well with me.

It is staggering to me that lesbians can be told we are bigoted, fascist, and discriminatory when we dare complain that malebodied transwomen who identify as lesbians do not belong in our groups — or our dating pool.

The ‘Get The L Out’ women are, in my view, valiantly standing up for the rights of lesbians to be allowed to define what it means to be same-sex (as opposed to ‘samegender’) attracted.  The good news is that Lesbian Strength, which had fizzled out by the 1990s, is back, and will march in Leeds later this month. I, for one, will be there. It is high time for us to focus on our own needs and community — and recognise that we are no longer welcome at Pride.

We’ve fought long and hard for lesbians to be accepted within mainstream society, and we will not be pushed back in the closet.

As an invisible B despised by both Ls and Gs and claimed to be non-existent by Ts, I've never felt part of the movement.

Lesbians and gay men have zero shared experience. This is a good idea, and I’ve supported this forever. “LGBT” is just a money grab. That’s it.

[quote]Last weekend, police removed a group of lesbians calling themselves ‘Get The L Out’

They now prefer to be called "esbians."

I thing the orientations should go their own way from the rest of the alphabet soup The lesbians, gays, bis and asexuals all have sexual orientation in common. I don't know how much discrimination asexuals face, but a vowel is always handy.

But what to call ourselves?

BLAG? GLAB? GALB? GABL? BALG?

Well, I like lesbians

Lesbians are nice, but we have nothing in common.

I have never felt any tension between my gay male identity and lesbians. Yes, lesbians also face sexism, and gay men can be sexist or indifferent to sexism, but in terms of policies and goals, the two groups are aligned. Bisexuals are our fair weather friends who sometimes face the same issues, but ultimately can opt out.

The trans movement, however, is sometimes in conflict with gays and lesbians, especially in its insistence that trans people should be treated in all respects as equivalent to cis people. There is also an inherent tension in the idea that a young person should consider becoming trans if they have same-sex attractions. One might argue that the trans movement can be used to enforce heterosexuality (at least theoretically if not in practical reality). Some say it is used that way in Iran, for example.

When there were very few people expressing transsexual identity, I was happy to embrace them as another oppressed minority because their very rarity meant they were not in conflict with my goals and there was some overlap in interests. Now that they have increased in visibility (if not in number), there are emerging conflicts of interest.

Perhaps it is time for them to stand on their own and leave gay and lesbian organizations free to focus on our concerns. I fear some people, especially young people, are too enamored with the idea of a single larger community that exemplifies the high value of inclusion for a split to happen

Ever since it’s gone from GLB to this wild alphabet soup of god knows what I haven’t bothered to attend a pride celebration because it’s meaningless. There’s no community. Trans activists are completely rewriting Stonewall history to make themselves relevant. And I have no idea why so many gay men have a hard on for trans community. Yes, they have the right to exist, but they really don’t have anything in common with the GLB or LGB community.

When HRC and every other Pride Agenda wrangled in the rest of the alphabet because marriage rights had been secured for the Gs and the Ls, making these corporations irrelevant, rights are now being pushed in the opposite direction because of things that have nothing to do with sexual orientation being labeled as “queer”.

[quote] How is it that lesbians have been made to feel so unwelcome within what is supposedly our own community?

You need to look no further than some ignorant idiots here who insist this board is nor for lesbians.

To them I say Fuck off. To the rest of the alphabet soup that stole the gay community and all its work, I say Fuck Off.

Gay men and women have everything in common when it comes to this issue. Otherwise, they are men and women with the obvious differences between the sexes. But on THIS issue - the only reason the gay community exists - I repeat, gay men and women have EVERYTHING in common.

It goes too far to say gays and lesbians have nothing in common with trans people. We are all oppressed by conformists who seek to protect the special status of straight men and subservient women.

What do gay men and lesbians share? I’d like to know.

Gay men should have their own organization as well.

Homosexuality.

r15, same sex attraction and the resulting societal discrimination.

One form of homosexuality is acceptable (lesbianism) the other is not (gay male homosexuality). What else will people try to pigeonhole gay men into the same category as lesbians?

There is no unity, anymore, now that the trannies have confused everyone beyond reason. No solidarity is happening and everyone is out for themselves with this rogue SCOTUS.

Just as the trans garbage, I’m supposed to be the same as lesbians. I’m not. Not even a little bit.

[quote]I repeat, gay men and women have EVERYTHING in common.

Good grief this world. Nuke.

^^^ It may happen in the Ukraine!

Even the slightest nuke will turn this already upside down world on its head, (which may correct a lot of things).

For me it would be sad to de-link gays and lesbians, though I certainly understand the impulse

I'm gay and like lesbians, always have. Do I hit it off famously with every lesbian I meet? No. Do I hit it off famously with every gay man I meet? Oh, fuck no. What's important in both cases is that we have something obvious in common, an experience, a way if seeing that helped shape our respective world views.

And bisexuals I'm happy to include as part-timers - and I don't mean that disparagingly. There's a shared experience sometimes. My only wariness is in the very few who want to label themselves bi because if that time they tongue kissed someone of the same sex at a party, for like a half hour, at a party, drunk, 16 years ago. (Bona fides so fleeting and so distant ought not to count as anything more than ancient drunken fumblings.)

The rest of the alphabet and symbols that follow behind LGB have fuck all to do with same-sex attraction. Let's part ways and pretend we never met. Hard feelings? I never even knew you.

R15 we both share insecurity in old age with eldercare abuse, lack of children

our marital benefits are always under threats

we always will have that glass ceiling at work

[quote][R15] we both share insecurity in old age with eldercare abuse, lack of children

So does the humankind.

[quote]our marital benefits are always under threats

Who did they feature during same-sex marriage campaigns? Lesbians. Two gay men were rarely, if ever featured. Why? Because two women are more digestible for the general public.

[quote]we always will have that glass ceiling at work

What’s the lesbian : gay male ratio in management and CEO positions?

You mean the T.

Lesbians getting bullied, sidelined, ridiculed, and everyone else gay and straight turning it into a production for their vindication.

Yep. Same as it ever was. Guess we'll have to be your scapegoats, yet again.

[quote]and everyone else gay and straight turning it into a production for their vindication.

Then go away.

^^R28

R27 u sound insane , there is always homophobic orderlies to abuse you way harsher at the home, but most lg ppl do not have kids to check up on that

why do u complain about those ssm stuff when gay men get those benefit too, not just lesbians?

Male fantasy Hollywood lipstick on lipstick lesbianism is socially acceptable. Real world lesbianism with regular women, butches, and women who aren't male fantasies is by far another matter.

R15 a love of Home Depot?

I concur that activism and advocacy are most effective when the efforts are focused. The current alphabet soup no longer focuses on, let alone prioritizes, issues relevant to gay men and lesbians.

[quote]claiming that the women were causing a ‘confrontation’ with trans activists and supporters.

Can we guess who wants the L out.

One of the key reasons Occupy Wall Street was an utter failure was that it was never a coherent set of priorities. It was wildly disparate groups with conflicting demands - many of which were not only conflicting, but in direct opposition to the best interests of others within the "movement."

The reality is that when priorities of one group within an umbrella conflict with the priorities of others, it's time to disband in favor of more focused efforts.

[quote] One form of homosexuality is acceptable (lesbianism) the other is not (gay male homosexuality).

Society just sees female homosexuality as less threatening to society. Butch lesbians were rarely "acceptable". They were outsiders.

I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that gay men - like all men - have penii and society envisions the use of penii outside the constraints of heterosexuality as more of a "thing" than just lesbian sex.

[quote] I concur that activism and advocacy are most effective when the efforts are focused on me and my needs only.

Fixed that for you. You're welcome.

Take the "L" out of "lesbian" and it's "esbian."

[quote] The current alphabet soup no longer focuses on, let alone prioritizes, issues relevant to gay men and lesbians.

That is because conservative made trans the hot button issue. In the US, all the anti-trans hysteria from the conservatives led to "Don't Say Gay" bills pushed by the Trans ... oh, wait, ... the Conservatives pushed them through legislation. Ooops!

But sure, it's because of the bad Trans the conservatives were forced to act and us Gays are collateral damage. Bad trans forcing the poor, innocent conservatives to take action! /s

R8 I like GABL because it makes us sound like a flock of turkeys. BLAG is probably more apt though, since so many of us need to get a BLAG.

I support this in theory, but lesbians are such assholes these days that what they'll end up doing is self-immolating and the gay male community will end up having to harbor all of the refugees.

It's certainly a nice thought, guaranteed to be a disaster.

Because coalition building is the last thing you need if you want political clout.

The fact that lesbians are pushing that Storme person at the Stonewall riots, should be a red flag to gay men. They are no different than “transgender” people. But, let’s be grouped together, even though we have zero in common, people try really hard to claim we do, but we don’t. Gay men will separate by the 2030s anyway. I have patience.

[quote] Male fantasy Hollywood lipstick on lipstick lesbianism is socially acceptable.

And also p0rn 'lesbianism' (ie. drugged-up desperate bi and G4P women) or fet/kink 'lesbianism' (ie. women trying to turn on their men or seem 'wild'). All of which involve a certain aesthetic type and standard of woman, you'll notice--only slim, pretty, tall girls who look amazing naked or in lingerie/leather need apply.

I look forward to the end of acronyms.

I'm all for it. I never understood why LGBT was ever a thing. Gay men and lesbians can support each other and maintain separate identities.

Why am I not surprised by the responses on this thread? Women are under attack from every angle right now and gay men's response is to make it all about them.

Thank you R46. Will that support happen all the time? Probably not. But, that’s okay.

Claiming that gays and lesbians have zero in common is an attack on women?

I don't think even if gay men were more supportive. It would make a difference.

[quote] Why am I not surprised by the responses on this thread? Women are under attack from every angle right now and gay men's response is to make it all about them.

Mary!

It's gay men's duty to stand up for Lesbians. Who do you think did virtually all the caregiving during the AIDS crisis?

More of that “Marsha P Johnson” ^ - type garbage from lesbians. I’m telling you, bad news.

The Gays stand up for the Ls and the Ts. They don't go along with the right wing's divide & conquer schemes. That is why it is called the LGBT Community and not the MeMeMe!AllForMeFucktheRest Community.

I think people need to accept there isn't an LGBT community. There's no community anymore anyway. Everyone is hyper-individualistic and looks out for themselves. No one has any sense of social obligations anymore.

I'm not feeling these generalizations about gay men. Plenty of gay men have spoken up on trans people invading lesbian and female spaces and many of us don't want trans men in our spaces either. Straight women usually don't find a shit about gays or lesbians. So where's this idea gay men are throwing all women under the bus? That's straight men and women together going back on women's rights.

*don't give

[quote]Mary!

Just typical misogyny from gay men. Julie's article is right about that, as always.

Straight people are a bigger threat to women's rights than gay men. So many straight women vote Republican, are pro-life and anti-gay. Straight women are very religious. Lesbians should stop caping for straight women who don't give a shit about you.

[quote] I'm not feeling these generalizations about gay men. Plenty of gay men have spoken up on trans people invading lesbian and female spaces

Nowhere near as many as have attacked women for speaking out. Gay men are the attack dogs of the TRA movement far more than straight men or straight women. Only a chump would be surprised that gay men feel kinship with a man in a dress than with Lesbians.

[quote] and many of us don't want trans men in our spaces either.

Trans men have every right to be in men's spaces. Trans men don't pose any threat to gay men. The only threat posed is the one from biological men, gay and straight, to trans men themselves. I will always welcome trans men in women's spaces, though understand that in certain instances a woman who presents as a men may be extremely triggering for a woman in a sensitive space.

R60 The hypocrisy is strong here. But whatever...

I think R60 is that anti-gay male lesbian, who I think was banned, but they created a new account.

This thread is people who live on Twitter and are adapting radical generalizations due to their social media addiction. Please use some independent thought.

Saying gays and lesbians have zero in common is pretty independent.

Has any other minority group in the country ever allowed their fight for equality and rights to be so co-opted and taken over by others as the gays and lesbians? Name one thing gays, lesbians, and bisexuals have in common with the rest of the alphabet soup that is now the "queer community"? I'll wait for an answer.

Feminism is one. It's now apparently a general be-nice-to-everyone movement and the boring liberation of women part is seen as a wee bit icky.

[quote]Now that the lesbians are pissed off, maybe something will be done

Oh fuck off, PLEASE.

Gay men who are 5% of that population are not threatening women's rights like straight men and conservative straight women who are supporting the Republican Party. Gay men face a lot of homophobia and generally have more empathy than the average straight men or woman. The TRAs are mainly rich straight men who are funding the movement. People, straight or gay, who want to be politically correct and socially conscious are supportive of trans rights because they feel they should be and plus they could be shamed online for not. Most people aren't thinking it's bad for women's rights because it's not on their mind.

Stop accusing gay men of doing something we are not doing.

[quote]Gay men face a lot of homophobia and generally have more empathy than the average straight men or woman.

Most gay men would push a butch lesbian under a bus if they thought a straight man would look twice at them for it.

You're right R69 and lesbians would do the exact same thing to gay men if a hot straight women looked their way.

No, lesbians, as women, tend to be more emphatic. You can tell that fantasy to all the Blood Sisters who nursed dying gay men during the AIDS crisis though. They should know how gay men really feel.

R71 Well empathy would include not generalizing large groups of people right? Why did almost half of the white female population vote for Trump and why are there so many women in the Republican Party who support banning abortion, keeping the poor poor and denying gay rights which all affect their fellow women who are lesbians? What about the female slaveowners and Daughters of Confederacy? What about the women who kicked their daughters out for being gay? I think maybe women may be slightly more empathetic than the average man but not drastically so.

[quote]Well empathy would include not generalizing large groups of people right?

Wrong. The more empathic side of the population is the one that does not do all the raping, beating and killing. Lesbians who helped care for gay men, knew, I suspect, that if the tables were turned gay men would not do the same for them. Gay men are, after all, men.

Gotta love the political lesbians who are fringe minority who love gender stereotypes and think they're speaking for all XXs. Even WWing their own posts. They keep posting on a forum of mostly gay men because they love drama and conflict. Despite creating their own websites for themselves. They hate men so much they keep trying to engage in arguing with them. Classy...

R55 makes a point y'know. Maybe for any group to make any sort of substantial and cohesive community is not possible in these hyper-individualistic and atomised times we're living in. Maybe it's an impossible expectation to have, anymore.

Or, maybe that's what TPTB want us to think and believe.

[quote]No, lesbians, as women, tend to be more emphatic.

I've seen some brutal cat fights on the Fire Island Ferry that suggest otherwise.

If there was a lesbian chat board that didn't support gay men participating I wouldn't take it personally.

As a dude with a lot of women in my family. I really disagree women are extremely empathetic. And I love my female relatives. Most people are selfish assholes. Women just hide it better.

R77 I agree. Lesbians have the right to their own spaces. Most gay men aren't trying to invade lesbian areas. That's straight men, trans women and "queer" really straight women who kissed a girl once. Yet gay men are somehow the bad ones.

[quote] Most gay men aren't trying to invade lesbian areas. That's straight men, trans women and "queer" really straight women who kissed a girl once.

And most lesbians and women get the difference. I definitely do. Your complaint needs to be directed toward Julie Bindel et al., not actual everyday lesbians.

[quote]I have never felt any tension between my gay male identity and lesbians.

I never have either.

Now bi and trans people? Those are two groups I don’t particularly care for. Bis and trans are attention seeking lunatics.

[quote]I concur that activism and advocacy are most effective when the efforts are focused on me and my needs only.

[quote]Fixed that for you. You're welcome.

That fix merely demonstrates that you're an utter fool.

It has nothing to do with me and my needs. I take the same position with the NAACP and any other advocacy group. It is impossible for organizations to focus their resources effectively on wildly disparate goals.

I do not begrudge the NAACP for focusing on black people, rather than on other issues relevant to other minority groups. Expecting them to lobby on behalf of other minority groups is absurd.

The whole point of such advocacy and lobbying is to enact change. You are simply wasting energy and resources trying to be everything for everyone.

Pick your battles.

I've always gotten along with lesbians too as a gay men more so than with other gays. I mean real lesbians, the butch ones. Not the non-binary queer types or bi women who tend to be crazy. Most lesbians are nice as hell and chill. Unfortunately it just seems so many women have co-opted the lesbian identity for political reasons. Many are straight or bisexual women who just hate men and then there's the straight men who become trans women for sexual kinks.

There is no community.

We live in an ever-increasing individualistic society.

There’s too many straight girls that tongued a girl once an Expensive College and now think they can call themselves a lesbian or queer. Show me a dyke that can lift a locomotive and we’ll be friends.

[quote] The whole point of such advocacy and lobbying is to enact change. You are simply wasting energy and resources trying to be everything for everyone.

[quote] Pick your battles.

And the battle for quite some time is the conservatives picking on the trans. And your reply? Not my fight! MeMeMe, fuck the rest! Don't waste your resources on them! Give them to MEEEEEE! Pay attention to MEEEEE!

You know, the typical right-wing bullshit where minorities don't deserve "our" help and support.

I can understand why lesbians may take gay men (as a group) as their enemy. We are the loudest voices in the room. We’re over-represented online. I followed a Facebook post shared by a feminist (female) friend of mine the other day. The comments that stood out to me were those by my fellow white gay men. We’re the face of our entire group (gay men). The comments weren’t supportive of the topic - trans aggression against lesbians. I could almost hear the arrogant tone of those men as they were spewing their trans-women are women crap. This aggression that lesbians have been facing has been going on for over a decade. My feminist friend has been posting about it for that long. My thoughts, for several years, was always, “crazy lesbians and their drama”. Then, in 2017, I started seeing the “trans men” articles. Then the trans men in gay porn started creeping in. WTF?! I thought these were lesbians, I didn’t realize these were straight women! In late 2018 I read an article from a UK gay publication about some woman who identified as a man, coming in and walking around naked (flashing her vagina at everyone) at some male only public baths. She’d gotten in because she presented as a man. A male patron complained and she was kicked out. She took it to the British authorities and won. Per their legal system they must allow her in. This was late 2018. I think this story spread and got gay men’s attention. Now, we’re listening and standing up. And yes, we’re also speaking up for women/lesbians. However, their still remain those arrogant gay men that will ridicule those who aren’t pro-trans. In the same breath they’ll ridicule lesbians as a whole. While their faces and voices stand out, I don’t believe they’re the majority of us. I think the majority of those loud voices, IRL, are the additional letters, only in this for hate’s sake. To crush us. Because they see us (gays and lesbians) as “the establishment” within the sexual minorities category. They see us as representative of the white race. They always throw in racism when talking about those who stand against trans aggression.

[quote] They always throw in racism when talking about those who stand against trans aggression.

On DL especially.

R87 Ha ha, I know it can seem that way, but my experience are comments under Facebook posts by The Advocate or LGBTQNation. Queerty seems to have fallen also. Datalounge is the last stronghold for the non-trans-are-the-most-important-thing-in-the-world crowd.

Only if we get to stereotype you as a gay man, r84.

If you notice these supposed "lesbians" support right-wing organizations and conservative Christian groups that are anti-gay in addition to anti-trans. Why's that? Maybe because they're not really lesbians and are angry straight women who dated some shitty guys or married men they hate. They don't give a shit about gay people and just hate men in general and see trans women and gay men as easy targets because they're on a lower social totem pole than straight men. Straight women are homophobic and like to co-opt lesbian identity to justify it. And being straight women they are still attracted to the men they supposedly hate and that includes gay men. Hence their obsession with gay men and being on a predominantly gay men's site. Real lesbians don't give a shit about men to even waste time arguing with them and they rather be on their own threads or on their websites and lesbian spaces talking about this issue. Not lecturing gay men. And lesbians from my experience don't use their sex as an excuse to not be criticized. That's all straight women entitlement.

Moral of the story. Straight women are toxic like straight men and like to stir drama and think they're better than gays and can treat gayness as a costume like "queer", "pan" and "political lesbian". Just so they can bring out their anger on easy targets instead of challenging the straight men and other straight women (51% who vote Republican and supported Trump) who are the real barrier to women's rights.

R90 More like dropped on head.

When in doubt, they are right wing plants. Life's too short to figure out who is real and fake on social media. Especially on an anonymous message board like this one.

Right wingers always show their true colors by promoting their right wing values and demonizing left wing ones. They may use fancy words and create elaborate backstories but it always comes down to Liberals being bad and wrong and the right wing having a point and being right about some (made-up) issue like CRT, Don't Say Gay, etc.

Lesbians are fine in college. They are a pain in the ass in adulthood. I say set them free and get back to gay, meaning men. Ugh.

[quote] "Well, I like lesbians"

Same, R9.

Disband the whole acronym - it's become meaningless now. What does same sex attraction have to do with all the other shit.

[quote]Pride has been taken over by groups that seem to have [bold]a visceral dislike for lesbians.[/bold]

Because we're the only group that doesn't worship at the altar of dick and that infuriates them.

See r90 for a prime example of such a tantrum.

[quote] lesbians, gays, bis and asexuals

You are an idiot. Asexuals have nothing in common with gay men.

R97 Asexuals--real ones--have nothing in common with any sexual orientations, so idk why they're even under the umbrella.

They need respect and consideration and a voice, yes, but they don't need a seat at the gay or the straight table. They can just sit at the nearest adjacent one.

Technically, r97 it is possible to be asexual and gay, lesbian, bi, or hetero when one experiences romantic attraction.

A gay man or lesbian can be asexual and homoromantic.

Bi men and women can be asexual and biromantic.

Straight men and women can be asexual and heteroromantic.

All in all, I agree that the A doesn't belong in the acronym because it's not exclusively a gay, lesbian, or bi identity. It's just another branch of human sexuality, in general. I'm technically asexual and homoromantic, but I don't bother getting into that with people because my asexuality is irrelevant. It's also a headache to explain to people and most of the time I don't feel like "opening the door" to that discussion wherein I'm picked apart like a science project.

r99, no. And who cares? Asexuals are either mentally or physically sick, usually endocrine issues, traumatized or autistic. They don't want to fuck? Fine. No one cares.

Let the trannies have their own thing we don’t need their mental illness and brand of crazy associated with us.

r100 Yes. And clearly, you do otherwise you wouldn't have bothered to respond.

[quote]Asexuals are either mentally or physically sick

This is the exact same type of mess that was said about gays. But, you knew that.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Of course, we all knew that.

r102, really I don't. Just admit you were molested as a child by your father/uncle and stop appropriating.

[quote]Just admit you were molested as a child

This was also something else that was (inaccurately) stated about gays ad nauseum.

You have to be doing it on purpose at this point.

Well, in part I suggested the asexuals could come along, as it COULD be considered a sexual orientation (or lack of one.) Again, I don't really think that asexuals suffer from discrimination. They get the same, when are you going to get married and have bullshit that everyone else does, including the gays now. They just have a better answer to that question.

Mainly, I was just using them for their vowel.

*get married and have KIDS bullshit

I think I know what you meant r105, which is why I mentioned romantic attraction. I know quite a few people who identify as both gay and asexual because of separating romantic/emotional attraction from sexual attraction. But, asexuality is also present amongst straights. So, to me, it doesn't really make sense to include it with the rest of LGBs which is strictly about same-sex attraction whether that attraction is sexual, romantic, emotional, or all of the above in nature. Asexuality isn't exclusive to same-sex attraction. Thus, by definition, it doesn't belong in the acronym. Just like the T has absolutely nothing to do with sexual orientation and is strictly about gender identity. Although, I admire your utilitarian approach with the vowel, lol.

I see myself as gay because I'm romantically and emotionally attracted to the same sex but am not sexually attracted to either sex. We don't experience discrimination per se. But as you can see from the above few replies, we definitely get hate and told "we're broken" in some way, if ever we dare mention it when the subject is broached. And by individuals whom you'd think would know better (i.e. other gays). That's why I mostly keep it to myself.

Gay man here. My partner and I have many Lesbian friends with decades long rich friendships. Many of them work at high level for LGBTQ+ organisations and ‘all’ of them are totally on board with the Trans radical agenda. At least they are publicly.

We’ve lost friendships even daring to discuss that maybe children shouldn’t be able to choose there gender, that we shouldn’t assume a young boy or girl who plays with the toys of the opposite gender is always ‘Trans’. They have no space for discussion. They are always right.

So to be clear it’s not just many Gay men who are into the rainbow madness, it is many powerful Lesbians as well. Working actively against the interests of women.

For them they do it as they are all heads of government funded organisations and they need the money stream to flow. There is no money for Gay mens health research, or studies on violence in LG&B communities. It’s only going to T research. It’s crazy

[quote] It goes too far to say gays and lesbians have nothing in common with trans people. We are all oppressed by conformists who seek to protect the special status of straight men and subservient women.

Except that the trans are the ultimate conformists, they literally change their bodies to conform to society's expectations. Instead of being a subservient gay bottom they transform into a subservient "woman." Instead of being an assertive butch lesbian they become "straight" men. Even the women who become "gay" "men", which I do not understand at all but they infest Grindr, almost all claim to be dom tops. I guess pegging? Which I'm not into, and I don't understand bi guys who are. If you want a dick up your ass, find a real dick connected to man. And, to any ladies that might read this, guys, straight and bi, are perfectly fine with and will be turned on by you being more assertive in the bedroom, you don't have to pretend to have a dick to say what you want.

Sorry, I meant to sign R109.

And to say, we should kick out the T, but if the L's go the G &B should follow. Basically let us divide as the United Methodists are doing now.

R109 R110

Sorry signed now, I shouldn't post high as shit. :(

R110, yes, the United (lol) Methodists are a genuine political force in American politics.

There is no reason for any LGB group now that marriage equality has been achieved and we can force people to make cakes for us and most importantly that the banks and courts need to recognize us and we can't be fired for being gay.

What's left? What is there left of the organizations that we built and still contribute to out of loyalty?

The HRC is just a trans organization. The NOW is just a trans organization. The ACLU is just a trans organization. Stonewall UK is just a trans organization.

There is a class of people in NGOs who are used to receiving our money. Stop donating to these parasites.

Trans is the new gay conversion therapy and it's time to stop funding people who genuinely hate us.

I like the Ls. But I never understood why they got top billing G comes before L alphabetically. So does B.

We should be the AABCDEDGHIJKLMNOPPQQRSTUVWXYZ2S

Damn! I forgot the + at the end!

R113 I prefer the old GLB.

Oh whatever, Lesbians. Stay, go, do whatever you want just SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT IT.

As if it takes 500,000 posts and 10,000 threads to "discuss" this. We don't care. It's just too much noise and none of it's fun. If you want to stay, we're happy to have you - but you don't make the rules for everybody else. If you don't want to stay because we will not allow you to exclude others, so be it. Go in peace and we wish you well.

I know, I know, God forbid you just make a fucking decision and go with that. First, you have to talk it to death or it's just not dead enough. What will happen is that the TERFs and some hangers on will make a big show of flouncing off to do never darken our doors again. The regular Lesbians will stay (yay!), and then the TERFs will constantly come around and bitch about everyone else and how we just don't understand the depth of their pain.

Great. Go for it. Hasta la vista, baby and don't let the screen door hit you in your collective fat ass on the way out.

R116, sexual orientation is what brings the LGB together. Doesn't matter now but it mattered in the past. The Ts and the Qs are made up in the university and they're all straight people.

You've never experienced any discrimination based on LGB. Don't get comfortable.

I'm fine, I send my love.

Ts don't want equality like gays do, they want supremacy. If Ls and Gs split from the acronym, the Ts wouldn't stand for it.

[quote]Ts don't want equality like gays do, they want supremacy. If Ls and Gs split from the acronym, the Ts wouldn't stand for it.

Case in point: female only rape crisis centres and the LGB Alliance

The G's aren't going anywhere. We're fine, we send our love and wish you bon voyage!

[quote] We’ve lost friendships even daring to discuss that maybe children shouldn’t be able to choose there gender,

As you should, since the reality is not that children wake up one moment wanting to change their gender and get bottom surgery a few hours later. It's a process that lasts for years, with children being asked all the time why they want to do it and why they still want to do it after years of being asked why they want to go through that? At that stage, it can be safely assumed that it isn't just a childish whim that will change any time soon.

You are pushing your conservative view, which are really only your business, onto others. Just like religious freaks pushing their views on, say, Gays, calling us sinners and disgusting, because the Bible apparently says so.

I knew it would come to this. Straight women are trying to kick lesbian/bisexual women from the gay community. Women fear/mistrust/hate bi women like me and lesbians.

If our gay male friends don't stand up for us and against SJW straight women and TRAs, I guess it is only a matter of time.

BTW, gay men and gay women have a LOT in common. Both are minorities that're unwelcome and isolated by the straight ppl around us for what we like. Namely, members of our own sex. That is a lot to have in common--except to TRAs and straight bitch hags who think lesbians and bi women are the whole problem.

Honestly, I always thought it was about sexual orientation. The gays, the lezzies, the bies - and the trannies, who, I thought, were attracted to the same sex but sometimes dressed as the opposite sex.

When it became about identity, they lost me.

The trans community has utterly destroyed their credibility and their philosophy of “our gender identity trumps your sexual orientation” pissed off a lot of gay and lesbians. So what do they do? Revise their pitch? Oh no. They’re too antisocial, delusional, antisocial, and maladjusted to do that.

So now they’re going to try to drive a wedge between gays and lesbians. It’s not gonna work. Just like your attempts to jump the line by pretending a trans woman is that cause for gay acceptance, we can see the gaslighting and we’re rejecting it.

Gays and lesbians will struggle for a while but we’re regain the strides we made in the past. The trans and “queer” communities will be left with no money and no support.

[quote]Last weekend, police removed a group of lesbians calling themselves ‘Get The L Out’ from the Pride Cymru procession in Cardiff, claiming that the women were causing a ‘confrontation’ with trans activists and supporters.

Some divisive cunts ≠ All Lesbians They were behaving like magatards, they got expelled.

But this is just some division troll thread so the usual suspects can circlejerk about muh trannys.

R112 hits the nail on the head. This whole debacle is at least partly about overpaid ‘non-profits’ and professional activists protecting the bag. There’s thousands of these types who would be out of cushy jobs—and without an identity—if there were no more ‘gay’ organisations raising and handling big money.

It’s also about renegade and soulless surgeons and Doctors and Ph arma bros making out like bandits, realising that Transing kids then later treating them for concomitant medical problems is a goldmine.

And, there’s also bucks to be made from marketing cosmetics, fashion, trendy T-necessity items etc. to those who have gone through the process. Handy, now that women en masse—once the biggest consumers-have once again begun waking up to the empty evil of fast fashion, the vacuousness of ‘designer’, and forced beauty standards.

Follow the money, people. This is a gold rush, and they’re panning and damming and polluting our rivers to get their nuggets.

R127 WE see it. Most of us on here are the canaries in the goldmine. However, the authorities have something else in mind for us. Federal law concerning trans is not something demanded by the public, rather it’s a rallying cry on Twitter for SJWs/whatever you wanna’ call these people. So we’re doing governing by Twitter now?! That’s the world we live in?! I don’t believe it’s that innocent though. Didn’t some recent audit of Twitter accounts find that a-lot of them were fake? People can scream that I’m a conspiracy theorist (like that’s some kind of special category *eye roll*), but all of this is being done right in front of us. The problem is closer to the theme of the emperor has no clothes. The people who are pointing out the obvious are being told that we’re crazy or mean or whatever (gaslit) by those who have some stake in the game. The rest of the population is just going along, either because they’re not paying attention or because this is what they always do - support fashionable (Leftist) causes.

Um seriously not [R122] but I can see how you could read it that way. I was trying to say that it became impossible to have conversations outside of a particular mind set, even with close friends. Of course some kids will be trans, but not all kids who question their gender are, I think from reading data supplied by many researchers that statistically they turn out to be homosexual or heterosexual with AGP. We have friends who have transitioned and love and support them, but read the stories of the kids on the D/trans reddit and their awesome discussion on how a homophobic society they lived in led them to think they were trans rather than gay, and how they can cope with the impacts of medical transition on their bodies when they realised it was a mistake. It’s heartbreaking but also hopeful, they are so kind to each other.

Completely agree with you on rigid conservative thinking, it’s what is blowing up the rainbow movement. This tread links in a way to the others on how queer theory is spiralling the lgbtq+ communities towards some very rigid and often homophobic thinking. What does this mean for our political paradigm as homosexual people?

We live in a world where trans academics like Allyn Walker now openly argue for the support of minor attracted people (ie pedophiles) , and that pedophiles are no more dangerous to children than gay men. There needs to be an honest WTF is going on discussion and it feels like it’s starting to happen. It’s gonna get messy….

Oh, fuck off, DIVISION TROLL! Go fuck your dead mom's rotten carcass!

r130 You are not helping by responding this way. Perhaps that's your intention, though (i.e. to make it worse).

R130 is one of the most well-respected trans academics in the country.

You'll need to forgive R130. Ze is EXHAUSTED.

It’s good that R130 can acknowledge the ‘Division’. I just had a mental picture of the two different trolls on either side of the divide.

Crikey, this thread is as disappointing as the one which attempts to ask why so many lesbians are butch. FFS! Some really warped minds here. Far tok many miserable rubbish people.

There still IS a gay community for all the LGBT who remain sane. We each share a struggle for rquality in society, and we should have each others backs. So disheartening to read this shite 💩💩💩💩💩💩

R1 I've never turned against lesbians, yet I support trans as well. And one thing that has NOT been mentioned, is that the particular group of lesbians were not registered to be a part of the Cymru event. The bobbies involved were good enough to allow them a place at the rear, despite the group not having a designated or legitimate presence. That wasn't good enough apparently, and two subsequently threatened an officer, and a registered participant. That's on the group you wish to defend, no matter what. From all practical concerns, and on the part of law enforcement, those lesbians were shit-stirers , hell bent on bullying the transpeople. (who were actually registered as participants)

Pick a fight well chosen, and clin compliance with the event please. Do not show up, without the proper permit, and then agitate other legitimate participants. That's just anarchy, and foolishnesses from my POV. The Pride Procession is all-inclusive. It amounts to sour grapes to not follow the rules, despite being admitted to the rear, and that still isn't goid enough, simply because the group you favour insisted on heckling transpeople. That wouldn't have been possible bringing up the rear, so now they're butthurt, and apparently you are as well. Sounds like bloody antisocial behaviour to my sensibilities, rather than Pride.

Sorry, not sorry. That group was out of bounds, no matter what your position here. I have friends eho were there, and it was becoming pure chaos on behalf these women. Like it or not, those ARE the facts, Ma'am.

Can we go with them?

Gay man here and I just want to say that Julie Bindel is a champ. Says what she believes and doesn’t just nod along to get along. We need more authentic lgbt voices who are prepared to be open and honest about the bullshit going on right now.

R137 If she's such a bloody champ, why couldn't she and her group participate in the normal way to march, and register with the organisers, rather than show up en masse, demand a place, and begin threatening people who were registered , and threatening Cardiff Police?

Enquiring minds want to fucking know. It only takes a few bad apples to spoil the bunch.

You know damn well that if they tried to register they would have been denied.

R139 No dumbkopf, because they were offered a place at the rear, despite not registered as a part of the procession. If that were to be your forgone faulty conclusion, why did Cardiff Police offer them participation? Fucking nonsense you utter is all.

r117 Let's talk to lesbians about bisexual women.

Weekend troll post.

r33

R154 There is no one single gene believed to influence humans to turn out gay, but rather a concert of HUNDREDS of genes believed to influence sexual orientation.

Her argument that it is a choice for many is rubbish. It isn't a black or white issue, as she'd like you to also believe is the case supporting trans over lesbians. I don't like her equivocating. She's fucked up creating these either this or that arguments. Nothing scientific about any of it really.

Good for her choosing to be a lez, but I daresay most of us did NOT choose. That isn't "medicalising" a problem, or a condition, neither is it an attribution to a faulty gene as she suggests. It is ONLY either or in her hopelessly binary fucked-up brain. Being gay or trans simply is that we exist as such, as we have always been, with an innate, and NATURAL attraction, that never required any deep thinking or mulling over. (unlike her)

I'd bravely and confidently posit she was more than likely born bisexual, and therefore had the bloody freedom to chose to go with women, and I'm sure she enjoys the company of women. Nothing at all wrong with a choice, yet she simply is not representative of most gay people's experience. I confidently say this as a science writer, and a medical editor.

I find that many like her who see the world like this are predisposed to be anti-trans. She thinks she has all the answers, yet she isn't qualified to extrapolate her personal experience to the rest of us.

^for R144

[quote] because they were offered a place at the rear,

They and others have explained why they wouldn't march at the rear. That's where they have been attacked by TRAs in the past. Physically attacked.

The TRAs and their "allies" regularly go after them to attack them and rip their signs away. You know, typical male violence.

Drop the T.

r149 And there wouldn't have been as much publicity... and they wanted publicity, and to make a scene to get attention for their cause and cry see how they removed us. Oh, the horrors.

r147 Yes, that argument could be used, however, the camp which is subscribes, is one that denies lesbian sexuality and polices lesbian sex as well as going as far to define themselves as the one true arbitrators of feminism for establishing this hierarchy of women that choose to be lesbian.

R146 That exchange, a brief summarization of the state of the gender debate, was enjoyable to listen to.

R137, Bindel weighed in on the thread at link (which is so hilarious it should be parody) with a "This is magic!" and some TRA posts back: Fuck off Julie everybody hates you here!

LOL..

R146/R152 honestly I was wondering when Paglia would show her face in this fight.

Bye

I believe the L word has negative connotations. Switch to gay women . Lesbian erases women

[quote] And there wouldn't have been as much publicity... and they wanted publicity, and to make a scene to get attention for their cause and cry see how they removed us. Oh, the horrors.

Oh you mean echoing the tactics of trans activists - only minus the male violence directed at females.

R68 Gay men aren't 5% of the population

Isn't Julie Bindel a political lesbian, and not a real one? Why is she a spokesperson for lesbians?

Beat them at their game, R157. They displayed no tact or integrity when they hid behind our credibility and lobbed dirty bombs at the other side, pissing them off, and then hurling the dirty bombs at us.

They are a powerful deranged cult that fights dirty. Gays and lesbians are the only ones who can fight dirty back, but we have the support of the silent majority. They’re pissing EVERYONE off.

Any of the letters in that assortment should be able to do whatever the fuck they want. I can understand LGB as a grouping but I have nothing in common with trans and their warped gender ideology. And I don’t even know what half the other letters even mean. Why can’t we just be gay or lesbian? Enough with this bullshit.

Lesbians get ahead in the corporate world because heterosexual men don’t fear them, if they’re not too butch. (Likely they think they still have a chance). Gay men scare the heterosexual men who are usually in power and we don’t get ahead. That being said, I love my lesbian sisters and don’t want them to split from us. I’m old and I remember the gay women who were angels during the early years of HIV. We will need to return the favor at some point.

[quote]I remember the gay women who were angels during the early years of HIV.

Enough with this. A small group of lesbians in California does make lesbians “angels”. So with this Marsha P Johnson revisionism.

does *NOT

Lesbians have nothing in common with gay men AT ALL. This is more “trans” shit.

[quote] I can understand LGB as a grouping but I have nothing in common with trans and their warped gender ideology. And I don’t even know what half the other letters even mean.

So, you join a discussion by sharing how unfit you are to contribute anything of value? Bless.

Of course lesbians have a huge thing in common with gay men: we’re both attracted to the same sex.

[quote]Of course lesbians have a huge thing in common with gay men: we’re both attracted to the same sex.

Putin needs to nuke. Society is hopeless.

r167, but ... but ... it's not the same! Gay Guys are into cocks and lesbian women are into vagina. In no way that's comparable!

I have never known a lesbian who wasn’t an asshole towards me, a gay male. Feminine gay male. There was no camaraderie, nothing. And this is going back years and years ago. Long before the polarization we live in now. We have nothing in common.

r128, over 80% of Twitter accounts are bots. The former CIA analyst suggested it's as high as 99%.

r159…she is, supposedly. There are a lot of problems with Julie Bindel, the person. Julie Bindel, the feminist writer, however, has contributed lots of good.

R170 it goes both ways, sometimes. A gay man on my College course bullied me, a shy lesbian, out of the blue and for absolutely no reason. We barely knew each other, and I was always nice and polite to him, but still he spent a semester spreading mean rumours about me and turned the few friends I'd tried to make at school against me, to the point people turned their backs on me or ignored me in class. When I found out that this guy was the source, I was too passive and socially-avoidant to confront him on it or ask why he did it, and to this day I don't understand why he hated or targeted me.

But I don't hold that against gay men in general. Like I don't hold the handful of critical, bullying, spiteful gay male posters here who don't seem to like lesbians as the default. There are many wonderful gay men in this world, and I'd prefer to celebrate them and uphold them as the figureheads of the community. Every group has at least a few cruel or soulless people, sadly, and we can't let them poison the well.

r147, there seems to be a link to the MTHFR genes, which also explains the high percentage of gay autists who get caught up in the pedantic gender woo.

[quote] Isn't Julie Bindel a political lesbian,

Maybe. it's a fairly new concept to me. I believe it means they hate men so much or feel so oppressed by them that they refuse to have them as sexual or life partners.

I think if you're female you probably need to be bi or really a lesbian to have sex with someone of the same sex. Unless it's for money or another benefit, like a closeted gay man who married the CEO's daughter. I'm not buying that these are straight women who have chosen to have sex with other women unless they like it.

R175 true. I have worked or studied alongside plenty of straight women who have squealed "ew, gross!" or something like that when discussing or joking about lesbian sex. It's bizarre for me to imagine as someone who only likes pussy and is the proud owner of one, but there are actually women who find the idea of another vagina (or even their own, sadly) to be revolting.

Beyond that R173. We have nothing in common. Just because we are homosexual means nothing. We are two separate species.

The fact that lesbians are trying to capitalize on the AIDS because of that small group of lesbians in San Diego needs to be a red flag for gay men. Have you learned nothing these past few years over Stonewall and transgenderism, and that Storme DeLarverie person?

*crisis

r176, I'm not sure why you think it's weird that heterosexuals are grossed out by homosexual sex. This is what sexual orientation comes down to. Or are you a gender cultist who doesn't believe biology exists?

r152 It rather reflects more on the problems with feminism. Those profess to have the most problems with trans, ironically, want to keep their anti-biology theories intact.

They are no allies to LGB. They reductive.

and besides, most of them in their war against the patriarchy, in professing to be for choice, well, the choice to be a lesbian, actively seek to overturn rights and privileges granted onto LGB andbecause they know they have more support with that than if they targeted heterosexuals or "everyone" and so, they focus almost exclusively on preventing and reducing laws affecting LGBT on those issues in which they disagree. And further more, acting as the moral guard to dictate what our boundaries are.

homosexual men they frequently associate with nazism, paedophilia and blame for all the problems they have with not only lesbians but are seemingly the root in which they attach all social and sexual issues to.

They're against most forms and expressions of lesbian culture, sex and sexuality.

bisexuals are depraved unless they're political lesbians and lesbian separatists, then they're a-ok.

Even the concept of attraction is a debate with them... those of the variety of sexual attraction are considered false, untrue, or limited to the perversions of males. So, the idea that a female could be sexually attracted to another female is a huge debate among political lesbians. . . because if she's "sexually" attracted that promotes the idea of disorder or the influence of masculinization. But it's hard keeping the batshit crazy in order because they'll contradict themselves just a moment later.

But virtually everything about modern lesbians now is the result of gay men. . . gay men which corrupted community, promoted hypermasculinization and corrupted the poor lesbians into wanting to become men. Not even trans, but born as female, identifying as female, lesbians corrupted by gay men into acting like men. . .

even though political lesbians tend to look more masculine than most non-political lesbian butches. And they hate lipstick lesbians even more.

“ Lesbians have nothing in common with gay men AT ALL. This is more “trans” shit.“

That’s not true . Other than sexual attraction, I find gay women very compatible. I belong to a cooking club and antique club which has gay women in it . I went to a house party at a gay female couple’s home and it was classy and fun .

The transiban strikes again

Alright, well. Watch what happens. Lesbians are already proclaiming themselves to be AIDS movement “heroes”, and Stonewall with that Storme person. Gay men will find themselves with nothing. Whatever. Good luck.

Another gay man who has always liked and gotten along well with lesbians. They’ve always treated me with respect and validation in the presence of my same sex biological boyfriend.

It’s the trans that have decided I’m the enemy and that my sexual orientation is reversible or subject to the whims of their personality disorder.

The side I’m on is very clear.

Why are so many men who pretend to believe they have "female gendered souls" child rapists?

Having organized Pride in a major west coast city for over 10 years back in the 90s, I've experienced this discussion first-hand. The answer is, there is no answer that is ever going to satisfy everyone involved, whether they want to be involved or not.

My solution would be to call our annual party Gay Pride, refer to the whole alphabet as Sexual Minorities and if it only has to do with one segment, such as as Lesbians, just use that word. And go back to the original rainbow flag to represent the different flavors of gayness. The new one with all the different colors was a mistake. Too confusing. Other groups or identities can make their own flag.

Keep it simple.

r185 the side of gay men?

what political lesbians believe:

R184 is a deranged tranny trying to drive a wedge between gays and lesbians. Can’t you do what you people always threaten to do and just kill yourself?

[quote] Nelly fags and butch dykes are very much looked down on – and treated as second class citizens.

She hit the nail right on the head. Only difference now is that the B, T, Q, and A are treating us like second class citizens

r187, the designer of the trans flag was a trans/pedophile (they're basically synonymous).

[quote] It's the trans that have decided I'm the enemy and that my sexual orientation is reversible or subject of their personality disorder.

Hang on, did r185 get gay bashed too many times that he mixes up Trans with the Conservatives who push for gay conversion therapy and put a knife in our back whenever they can?

R168 Ah, I see this thread has attracted the gay/man hating extremist Lesbianbot. Despite the pseudo-intellectual posturing, they are really just a bitter, angry old dyke. Discussion pointless, next thread.

r195, wow, look at the virulent homophobia from you on a site specifically for gays & lesbians.

I want to know what the fuck is up with this new pride flag they've been throwing around. One look at it and you see the trans colors pushing wedge through the rainbow colors. That's all you need to know.

From R193

[quote] According to researcher Dr. Sarah Goode, CEO of StopSO (Specialist Treatment Organisation for the Prevention of Sexual Offending), pedophiles who organize online have developed their own culture, language, and symbols. One common symbol used in PEDOPHILE FORUMS INCORPORATES THE COLORS BABY BLUE, PINK AND WHITE. In her lecture, ‘Hidden Knowledge: What We Ought to Know About Pedophiles,’ Dr. Goode shows a slide of the image, and says, “THE PINK HALF REPRESENTS 'GIRL LOVERS' AND THE BLUE HALF REPRESENTS 'BOY LOVERS'.

[quote] Areas in Europe that advertise child trafficking to pedophile sex tourists have used the color code: “blue curtains mean a boy child prostitute and pink curtains a girl.”

Seriously, anyone who refuses to see this and speak out is a coward. I am ashamed of the Democratic Party for so eagerly, and maybe cluelessly for some, buying into this and doubling down. Are they corrupt, stupid or blind or all three?

[quote]I repeat, gay men and women have EVERYTHING in common.

Well, one difference, just off the top of my head, is that gay men like to fuck other guys in the ass.

R196 I’m neither homophobic nor virulent, but I’m bullshitphobic. If you have nothing at all in common with gay men and blatantly seem to dislike or resent them, why be here?