The Rings of Power Reviews

Variety

Makes the Most of Its Ample Lore

😳😳😳

The trailer is a barrage of CGI and sickly colors because in 2022 it's the ONLY way to evoke other worlds even though CGI is so fucking inescapable it's about as exciting as dog's dinner but hey, Avatar is being re released so we have that bloated blue epic to watch after this masterpiece.

Why do the male elves all look so ugly? I'm pretty sure I remember Tolkien emphasising their handsomeness pretty often.

That’s pretty gay.

What is this frau’s pose in OP’s pic?

😂😂😂

r6 Tory power stance in a dress

What am I looking at in r7 ?

HAHAHAHAHAHA OMG

On the other hand, EW calls it "kind of a catastrophe."

Reviews are positive, with a couple of "it's really bad" ones mixed in, just as for House of Dragons. The most scathing one, for EW, is awfully written, I don't know why a reviewer is allowed to use so many short sentences with nothing to connect them. Fans still remember that guy from when The Witcher first came out because he wrote that he just skipped a couple of episodes in between.

Curiously, Sepinwall is on board and he dislikes fantasy and gave a bad score to both HOD and WOT. So, we'll see.

81 fresh. Will watch.

A certain reviewer on YouTube said Elrond is clearly gay and Celebrimbor and Gil-galad seem to be as well, and that they all have insane sexual chemistry with each other. I think she's just completely clueless and doesn't understand the non-toxic masculinity of the (Ñoldorin) elves. She then points at the fact that Lee Pace who played Thranduil has come out as gay as some evidence of her theory. I can't believe I used to watch this bitch religiously years ago.

This is a story from a Tolkien universe, being adapted by two Mormon showrunners. No one is going to be gay here.

R12

I belive Bilbo's poem covered this.

Gil-galad was an Elven-king. Of him the harpers sadly sing; the last whose realm was fair and free between the Mountains and the Sea. His sword was long, his lance was keen. His shining helm afar was seen; the countless stars of heaven's field were mirrored in his silver shield. But long ago he rode away, and where he dwelleth none can say; and also...He was very gay.

AV Club gave it an absolutely rapturous review, was almost embarrassing to read. As are many features on AV Club, to be fair.

The best review I saw was someone who point blank said that if you're going into it determined to love or hate it, his review is not for you.

In a balanced review, he noted that it showed some potential, but there was still plenty of room for it to go off the rails. He also noted that including Hobbits who do nothing of note in the Second Age highlights the potential problems the production could still encounter since they'll have to create an entire storyline without reference to anything Tolkien.

The biggest problem continues to be the limitations the production has by NOT having the rights to anything but the original trilogy and The Hobbit. Still, he notes that they seemed to do reference many people, places, events that might otherwise have been assumed off limits. This also suggests that they may have more flexibility than people had initially feared due to the rights issues.

[quote]Still, he notes that they seemed to do reference many people, places, events that might otherwise have been assumed off limits.

r15 Yes, we'll never see the contract obviously, but there's wide speculation that the Tolkien estate was able to circumvent that old matching rights agreement they've had with another company since the '60s by just being involved in this production as consultants and signing off on changes by negotiating on a case-by-case basis over particulars.

So has anyone from DL actually watched it yet?

R17 I’m watching it now. First impression: it looks and sounds gorgeous and Galadriel’s brother is sexy.

Yes, I enjoyed it a lot. I've never been a fan of the hobbits, but their ancestors, the Harfoots, are so adorable and genuine, they're my favourite part of the show already. I'm not Irish, so I'm not bothered by their botched accents.

The most glorious part of the two episodes to me was the moment when Elrond pisses off Galadriel and you can hear the sound of the crashing waves coming in, then you see the waves themselves in an overhead shot, perfectly mirroring Galadriel's personality, her aspirations, and her future. Beautifully done and such a compelling character.

[quote][R17] I’m watching it now. First impression: it looks and sounds gorgeous and Galadriel’s brother is sexy.

I've always like her brother Finrod Felagund from the Silmarillion. He always just seemed like such a cool guy.

I know that they have to make some allowances for adaptation and certain choices make sense, but it bugs me that Celebrimbor and Gil Galad are depicted as being so much older than Galadriel. Celebrimbor's grandfather and Galadriel's father were half-brothers. Galadriel is much older than Celebrimbor.

Gil Galad's father was Finrod's younger brother Orodreth, making Gil Galad Galadriel's nephew. Orodreth succeeded Finrod as King of Nargothrond which is how Gil Galad is now high king of the Nolder in Middle Earth.

Resetting their ages makes sense to avoid needing to address significant backstory and avoid confusion. But, part of Galadriel's character arc is that she is the granddaughter of Finwe, the first high King of the Nolder, and that she was one of the leaders of the Nolder revolt along with Feanor (her uncle) because she wanted to rule a kingdom - her ambition and her final renunciation of power by turning down the One Ring in LotR are what finally got her ban from returning to Valinor revoked.

Episode 1 was spectacular to look at, and epic in scale—even if, frankly, nothing really happened. It’s all just disconnected setup and reaction. I’ll probably watch more if only because it’s visually so beautiful. Plus Galadriel’s character was set up compellingly.

Couple of minor annoyances: I had to turn on the subtitles. FAR too much of the dialogue was mumbled and whispered and got a little lost in the mix. (I’m not a 90 year old with an ear trumpet, either; I’m 40 with generally perfect hearing).

I’m not jumping on the “woke” bullshittery bandwagon, but the colourblind casting doesn’t entirely make sense in a series like this. Different colours of skin aren’t random quirks of genetics but result from people coming from vastly different geographical locations. Why would there be such radical skin colour variance in a tribe such as the Harfoots which come from and live in the same location?

Anyway, it was a decent enough start!

[quote]Episode 1 was spectacular to look at, and epic in scale—even if, frankly, nothing really happened

Apparently, there is a pacing problem in that the first two episodes are basically all just story setup - and nothing happens. In turn, it's hard to get invested in the characters that this setup is establishing.

Since they keep shifting from setup of one story to another, no single story seems to gain momentum.

I've heard this a couple times from various reviewers.

As for the colorblind casting, it doesn't make sense, but there are so many other things that make less sense that I don't care. Now, what I do care about is that the elves are all supposed to be BEAUTIFUL. I don't care what race you are, but if you're cast as an elf, you need to be gorgeous. Elrond and Gil Galad are not goodlooking men. At least Arondir is a very handsome guy.

[quote]Apparently, there is a pacing problem in that the first two episodes are basically all just story setup - and nothing happens.

I don't understand this point when so many things happen. The Meteor Man appears in the world, Elrond makes contact with the dwarves, Galadriel almost sails back to Valinor, evil wakes up in the place that will eventually become Mordor... Also, yes, it's not unusual for the first couple of episodes of a new show to be mostly table setting. That's not a pacing issue, it's just the nature of the beast.

I also don't get the colour-blind complaints and discussions about genetics when this is a world with dragons and giant eagles. Like, it just doesn't matter narrative-wise.

[quote]I don't understand this point when so many things happen. The Meteor Man appears in the world, Elrond makes contact with the dwarves, Galadriel almost sails back to Valinor, evil wakes up in the place that will eventually become Mordor... Also, yes, it's not unusual for the first couple of episodes of a new show to be mostly table setting. That's not a pacing issue, it's just the nature of the beast.

All of that is story setup. For a viewer to feel "satisfied" and feel like there is forward movement to a story, it needs to build up structurally (beats>scenes>sequences>acts) with these following the general structure of Action>Reaction>Gap in expectations (scene turns).

In a story, something "happening" means that there are has been both a progression in the Action/Reaction cycle and shift in the "values" at stake - a movement to the contrary (direct opposite) value or contrary (negation without necessarily opposition) or negation of negation.

For example: if someone goes from love to hate (contradictory) that is a simple shift. If someone goes from love to indifference (contrary) that's a value change. If someone goes from love to self-hatred, that's negation of negation - not only have you gone from loving another person, but you've moved to the most destructive version of hating yourself.

All the stuff you mention is merely setup to some future events or relationships. While there are some nominal value shifts (so some scenes could loosely be said to have turned), these don't bring anything near the end of a Sequence that reflects the ongoing action/reaction cycle.

I understand the theory, I just disagree with your conclusion that nothing happened. Lots of things happened and I was on the edge of my seat the whole time.

I agree with a Tweet I saw that says it feels like high quality fanfiction, rather than a truly Tolkeinesque world or story. I don't thibk that's necessarily a bad thing, even if the purists will be angry.

Lack of male eye candy hurts this show.

It's hard to be a fully Tolkienesque story when the source material is mainly in the form of appendices. Most of it has to be made up, certainly all of the dialogue. As for the look, that really is subjective; I'm sure Tolkien would have hated the look of LOTR movies as much as his son famously did, same for the Hobbit trilogy or this show.

I do think HD can be a lot at times, I kept focussing on people's forehead lines and the peach fuzz on the kiddies' faces. But, there's no going back now to the gauzy past, I suppose.

I'm not arguing a "technical" reason for saying that nothing happened.

A lot of stuff obviously occurs. I'm saying that "nothing happens" because the things that occur do not resolve conflicts, merely provide background, context, and necessary setup information in order to understand what conflicts are going to be addressed (and hopefully resolved) in the story world.

[quote]I agree with a Tweet I saw that says it feels like high quality fanfiction, rather than a truly Tolkeinesque world or story. I don't thibk that's necessarily a bad thing, even if the purists will be angry.

The Shining movie is a great movie and a terrible adaptation of the King novel. I think people who decide whether to like or hate it based on some notion of fidelity to Tolkien are misguided - mostly because Tolkien didn't actually do a lot with the Second Age. He notes in one of his letter (his letters have all been numbered and categorized) that he intended to write some of the huge events in great detail and leave other events for other people to fill-in.

What would have helped the first episode (haven’t seen the second yet) is adopting an A/B/C story structure. Instead of throwing all the balls in the air at once, start giving one thread the lion’s share (preferably Galadriel’s). That way it creates a greater sense of emotional investment and story movement. I mean, it was intriguing enough, but it was little more than edging. There just wasn’t enough to REALLY hook me dramatically. But I’ll persevere.

r27 I've noticed the same in HOD. Possibly because they prefer casting people with acting/theatre experience, rather than going down the CW route of casting models who learn acting as they go along.

To occur, to happen; we're splitting hairs over terminology now. As always, it's down to subjective perception. For me, it worked.

I find the Meteor Man fascinating and not just because he has decent abs. I truly could not say whether he's Gandalf, Sauron, Radagast, or one of the blues. So many misdirections there, I just hope he doesn't fall into the wrong hands.

[quote] Episode 1 was spectacular to look at, and epic in scale

They put half a billion dollars into this so this is the least you would expect.

[quote]What would have helped the first episode (haven’t seen the second yet) is adopting an A/B/C story structure. Instead of throwing all the balls in the air at once, start giving one thread the lion’s share (preferably Galadriel’s). That way it creates a greater sense of emotional investment and story movement.

I agree. Game of Thrones through the first six seasons was a sprawling and huge story with multiple storylines running, but remained coherent.

But, if you watch the revised pilot (the original is apparently awful), the story is much more focused.

[quote]To occur, to happen; we're splitting hairs over terminology now.

That is a pedantic read of my point, and you know it. I've been very clear from a technical and story perspective about why people say "nothing" happend and your replies are all basically, "well, I think stuff happened" without actually rebutting anything - which is fine, but don't pretend that I'm splitting hairs.

[quote]I truly could not say whether he's Gandalf, Sauron, Radagast, or one of the blues. So many misdirections there, I just hope he doesn't fall into the wrong hands.

Oh, and if Meteor man is ANY of the Istari, that would be ridiculous.

The Istari were specifically chosen from among the Maia and sent to Middle Earth in the Third Age by the Valar to counter the threat of Sauron, himself a Maia.

It's a silly misdirection because it cannot be any of them. Misdirection only works when it can legitimately be a solution. If the impossible solution turns out correct, that's just silly deus ex machina.

[quote]and your replies are all basically, "well, I think stuff happened" without actually rebutting anything

I literally listed the things that happened in my very first reply and you dismissed them, saying those things "occurred, but didn't happen." And yet you're the one projecting dismissiveness onto me.

Let's just agree to disagree, your tone tells me we obviously aren't going to make any headway here.

The blue Istari came to the East in advance, their mission was different.

Not going to debate the theory of misdirection as a narrative device, because we can just about tell where we're going to end up with that one again, can't we?

^^^ Chill out nerds.

The title sounds like a really good new laundry detergent, like Tide Pods.

The amount of money they spent on this is obscene. We’re officially at peak streaming. It’s all downhill from here.

[quote]The amount of money they spent on this is obscene. We’re officially at peak streaming. It’s all downhill from here.

Well, at least it LOOKS like they spent the money on the production.

I mean, except for a few random scenes, it is a beautiful production and the music is fantastic.

At least you can tell where all the money went, rather than our sitting around and asking where the hell did they spend all the money.

Reading the few really scathing reviews made me wonder if I enjoyed the first two eps as much as I did, because the reviewers' objections did seem reasonable, as in questioning Galadriel's leap into the ocean to avoid being entombed (or whatever) in Valinor. That really was unbelievable even in a fantasy when you realize how big that body of water is.

But of course fantasy characters all do incredible things, because fantasy. And I wonder what these reviewers wrote about Peter Jackson's LOTR. Maybe they just don't like fantasy.

It's true that there was a lot of setting up of many different plot lines and constant jumping from one to another. And the dialogue is not high in quality.

But it's still fun, isn't it? And they do promise a great story point in explaining hoiw the rings of power came to be. I always wondered why there was One Ring To Rule Them All. What's so special about it?

[quote]I always wondered why there was One Ring To Rule Them All. What's so special about it?

Well, I can tell you how Tolkien envisioned it whether it's the way the show does it.

Under the guise of teaching the elven smiths of Eregion who were led by Celebrimbor, Feanor's grandson (Feanor made the Silmarils), Sauron taught them how to make rings of power. Sauron always intended to use them to entrap the wearers. He always intended to forge the One Ring to control the other rings. Think of it this way - he taught them how to build a computer and program their operating systems, but his instructions included a backdoor that allowed him to control the computers remotely.

Teaching them how to forge rings of power, then secretly forging the one ring to control the others was part of his "plan" to dominate Middle Earth. He didn't count on Celebrimbor being as clever as he was and able to forge the Three for the Elves without Sauron's help, so were not under his direct control unless he was wearing the One. Of the Seven, Sauron only recovered some of them while others were apparently consumed by dragons when their dwarf wearers were munched.

“The amount of money they spent on this is obscene. We’re officially at peak streaming. It’s all downhill from here.”

Agree, I don’t think the centre can hold much longer with regard to the whole streaming industry. I think the bubble may have already burst. But that’s another topic.

I don't mind it and will watch it, though a lot of the dialogue is poor, there are too many generic fantasy tropes and characters and some less than stellar acting (is Arondir supposed to look constipated the whole time?). Plus the names that break the world-building spell - a character called Bronwyn (Celtic) with a son called Theo (Greek) - at least use the same name-stock, and why import names at all, when there are plenty in Tolkien created by him? lists of names is what their main source, the LOTRF Appendices, largely consist of. I bet they're the producer's kids' names or something.

I'm guessing that the "Meteor Man" is Gandalf. During Gandalf's standoff with the Balrog in the Fellowship of the Ring (film and novel), he states "I am a servant of the Secret Fire", which might tie in somehow with his fiery arrival near the Harfoots. Also, Gandalf's fondness for hobbits suggests some long personal experience with them (possibly beginning with the Harfoots?). However, I've only read The Hobbit and the LOTR novels, so very possibly I'm missing something.

The fireflies all died, something that was made rather portentous - that doesn't suggest to me it's Gandalf or any of the Istari. I think it's pretty obvious who it is, actually.

Elves having buzzcuts seemed a jarring hairstyling choice, but that’s another minor nitpick.

Tell, R47.

It's the Big Bad, R49 - Sauron. He went into hiding at the end of the First Age, came back posing as a goodie and seduced the elves of Eregion to be able to make the rings. In the first episode we saw Galadriel track him to the frozen castle where he had, years previously, cast a huge spell that flash-fried his orc entourage and allowed him to disappear. He's been hidden in orbit and has now come to earth, apparently initially amnesiac but clearly with vast inner power and he kills harmless fireflies.

I somehow thought you would suggest it's Sauron, R 50. It makes good story sense. And it would certainly arouse sympathy--the more fools we--because he seems so lost and yet complicated.

But can anyone get into orbit in this world? I guess it's a question of where the meteor came from.

[quote]But can anyone get into orbit in this world? I guess it's a question of where the meteor came from.

If Elrond's father Earendil can be set to sail in the sky with the Silmaril on his brow as the morningstar, it's not out of the realm of possibility.

Elrond's paternal great great grandfather is Galadriel's paternal uncle. Galadriel's daughter marries Elrond - Arwen is Galadriel's granddaughter.

There are Maiar spirits in the sun and moon, as well as Earendil in the morning star. A Maiar like Sauron surviving up there in some sort of vehicle or container like the meteor would be broadly consistent with Tolkien's world, though in the books he's vague about where Sauron hid out immediately after the fall of Morgoth. He initially surrendered in fear and awe of the Valar, but then slipped away, fearing punishment.

It’s getting review bombed on Rotten Tomatoes. Its in the low 30s. It’s avoided review bombing on IMDB and elsewhere, so far. You can imagine what the review bombing is because of.

There aren't any reviews or ratings listed on Amazon Prime this morning, which is odd because I saw a single 1-star rating yesterday, and now even that is gone.

The Maiar are low ranking Angels. They are spirit until they decide to take physical form.

Just watched episode 2 and I‘m sad to say I was rather bored.

As of yet there’s just no real story; no plot to get your teeth into; just characters moving around a chessboard. The thrust of the story is so vague it fails to build any real tension, in spite of the dramatic music, ominous happenings and pained reacted shots.

Even when you’re doing serialised tv, I still think each episode should have some sense of a clear focus; and something approximating a beginning, a middle and an end rather than just a succession of intercut scenes which, at this stage, have little to no bearing on each other.

It’s not bad by any means. It’s just a somewhat underwhelming opening.

Amazon shut down reviews R55 because they were getting review bombed as well.

I just posted this on the studio's latest excuse for poor reviews - explains in detail with receipts how both iMDB and Totten Tomatoes are manipulating reviews to help the film.

This is hilarious. Both imdb and RT can fuck off.

Just watched the first 2 episodes and I'm enjoying it. Will continue to watch. When the Jackson films were being made were there the same hysterical reactions from purists, aside from the anti-woke crap now? I've read the trilogy many times but usually skipped the appendices--too much like schoolwork.

Liking the ancestors of the hobbits. I too assumed that the meteor man is going to be the first good wizard. From reading the above, maybe not. As far as the actors, the only one I'm having trouble with is Elrond. His face bugs me. I realize the Elves as written by Tolkien are impossible to do with live actors. They're too perfect and beautiful and noble and wise. I'm not asking for the moon - just another Legolas or two.

Re the anti-woke hysteria, are racists attracted to Tolkien? I can see show some of the stereotyping in the books would appeal: flowing blonde hair equals noble and good, while "slant-eyed and swarthy" is shorthand for evil. That really jumps out at me re-reading the books now.

I also didn’t hate it. There are some silly scenes and some of it drags out for too long. But, it’s alright. Lol same thoughts about the meteor man, R60. I’m pretty sure he was speaking some kind of words from the Maiar, but I’m not sure. It totally makes sense to make him Sauron from a narrative perspective.

I expect Galadriel will develop the grace and elegance once she become the lady of Lothlorien and gets her ring. like Elrond’s forge-building arc. Though I admit his nasally voice was grating at first. It’ll be cool to see the inspiration and movements behind the rings take shape. I wonder if they have rights to mention Elrond’s brother/Numenor.

They’re deleting the one star and zero star ratings from racists that have posted zero reviews before that are clearly manipulated bots. Sites in general should do A LOT more of that type of editing, rather than less R59.

Sorry, R62, how stupid do you have to be to buy that studio and Amazon-0wned iMDB bullshit?

They have deleted ALL iMDB written reviews that are one star, two stars, three stars, four stars, five stars. ALL OF THEM.

If you try to sort reviews by date you can't. If you try to sort reviews by helpfulness you can't, if you try to sort reviews by prolific reviewer you can't.

So you think ALL those deleted reviews are by racists. You poor sweet little gullible muppet.

You can't give a zero review at IMDB.

Deleting bad/average reviews is pretty pathetic but not at all surprising from our favourite megacorp Amazon. They're not risking a bomb after forking over $1 billion

The only published reviews are a lot of paid lackeys and bots. Of course they are mostly good. Censoring negative feedback and labelling it as “review bombing” is a bit disconcerting. This is why a few billionaires owning everything is not a good thing. They will bury any criticism and lie to the masses.

[quote]They’re deleting the one star and zero star ratings from racists that have posted zero reviews before that are clearly manipulated bots. Sites in general should do A LOT more of that type of editing, rather than less

R62 = Jeff Bezos

This comment is total bullshit. Why only for Rings Of Power? They have never done this for a Marvel film or show. Nor did they so this for House Of The Dragon, which also has race swapped a major character. Somehow, the ratings for HOTD STILL manages to pull superior reviews without the censorship. The assholes at Amazon produced a garbage show with Rings Of Power and now they want to label fair criticism as “review bombing” “racist” and “toxic”, just to get away with protecting their own big turd of a program.

This show is in heavy need of some shirtless male eye candy. STAT. Halbrand is so-so... But he'll most likely turn out to be evil as Sauron or some such... We need a lot more hot hunks on this show!!!

[quote]But he'll most likely turn out to be evil as Sauron or some such... We need a lot more hot hunks on this show!!!

Oh, for the good old days when they signaled someone was evil by making them gay and showing them engaged in homosexual debauchery.

It is a beautiful production. The acting is fine. But dear lord it is ponderously self-important. Much like the books and films.

I'll watch, but I will need to be mildly drunk throughout.

A nice cabernet should do the trick.

- Trump “I didn’t win the election! It must be rigged!!!”

- Bezos “My show is getting one star?? It must be review bombing!!”

It took me two days to get through episode three. This show is so…boring. The cast and characters aren’t likeable and it doesn’t follow the most basic rules of good storytelling (which boils down to X must do Y but comes into conflict with Z). It’s a big, beautiful looking load of nothing. I don’t know what the basic story is about and don’t really care to continue much beyond this. I expected better. Oh well.

I love it, which is fortunate because I'm not feeling HoD at all. Shame we can't have a thread with a discussion that's just about the episodes and the speculation and whatnot, rather than about all the drama that surrounds the show.

Some scenes are quite repetitive like the scenes between that little hobbit girl and her friend. We always know that the hobbit friend is gonna say no whenever the hobbit asks her for something and then relents later. Yet, they keep showing the same thing again and again like a clockwork. Other than a few such scenes and some lousy dialogues, i think the show is quite good.

I like it, but it lacks the one thing that set LOTR apart. That pervasive sadness and nostalgia for a passed golden age. It's the same problem the Star Wars prequels had.

Can anyone tell me where Bronwyn (name?) and Theo spent the night before the whole village marched away the next morning?

Their house had just been invaded by an orc through a hole in their floor, so surely they weren't going to stay there anymore. Yet Bronwyn never said where she would sleep that night. In the pub? At a friend's? Did the showrunners just leave it out to keep things moving or did they just not think of it?

Or did I miss something?

r76 who cares?

Who cares if you're a fucking idiot with nothing to say?

Nobody.

Glad Bronwyn and Theo weren't in the third episode - completely misconceived, generic, would-be audience-identification characters with stupid non-Tolkien names.

Is anyone else just not connecting with the characters? They feel generic. Galadriel lacks the grace and gravitas I feel her character should have and is just a generic sassy, kickass female hero. I’m gonna give it another episode or two. But it’s just feel meandering and unfocused to me and I want to like it.

I think it needs time to develop R80, which unlike most steaming shows, it’s going to get since Amazon has committed such a huge amount of money. The showrunners are unproven, so it could turn out to be a debacle. They seem (understandably) enamored of Jackson’s movies but don’t have his brilliant filmic ability, despite lots of gorgeous FX laden slomo shots and enormous vistas. I’m not going to give up yet, it has a of potential.

[quote]I think it needs time to develop

I think you hit the nail on the head r81. I watched the first two eps and think I will wait on the remainder until they are all available.

I enjoyed what I saw, but the action is slow enough to develop that I think waiting may be the best bet.

[quote]I think it needs time to develop

Given how much each episode costs, that's not a luxury they have.

If you think about shows like The Expanse that had to build a world from scratch, the poor storytelling is startling.

The real problem with Netflix, Amazon, and the rest of the streaming platforms is that there are far fewer talented people out there than there is a demand for projects.

They do have that luxury, R83. They’ve committed to five seasons.

They needed a lot more time on the dialog, but one gets the impression that was the last thing they worried about. The very first spoken line (the elf kid mocking baby Galadriel) just sounded wrong for Tolkien, but it wouldn't have taken much to change that. Just someone with a decent ear going through the script and tweaking it would have helped enormously. Of course, maybe that did happen and it was even worse before.

This article perfectly described my feelings about Galadriel. I hope they can change it, but it’s a really one note performance so not holding out too much hope. Early days, I know.

I didn’t mind her being an action hero. But making her character impulsive and kind of unhinged was a weird choice. Although to be fair, I’ve never read the novels and am going only on Cate’s performance.

It's so-so.

**Spolier Theory warning**

So, the Adar guy being Sauron is too easy. Since we already know he causes the downfall of Numenor, I think it’s the curiously tall Halbrand. Galadriel and the Numenorian host will get to pre-Mordor Southlands to stop the old creepy guy and the tunneling orcs. But the local folks will tell them that they’ve never had a “king”, except for Sauron. Then, Sauron/Hal and Ar-Pharazon will screw Numenor and get it sunk. And then we get Elendil and his well-known kingdoms started in middle-Earth.

I think Halbrand will end up being the Witch King after he gets his hands on that cursed blade currently in the possession of the kid, and Sauron will be introduced at the very end of the season when Celebrimbor's new tower/furnace thingy is completed.

Adar is a misdirection, in my view. He's just an old elf who got seduced by Sauron long ago. Someone noted he has the same river design on his neck plate as Gil-galad.

The Stranger (Meteor Man) is obviously one of the blue wizards. The most compelling theory I've seen about him is that he was sent to take care of the first blue wizard who was corrupted and is now leading a cult of Melkor. That one will be revealed in the next episode or two.

Yeah, plus Hal is great at crafting, just like Sauron. He’s going to convince Galadriel to not go and they’re going to leave him behind because she won’t want to force him to go. He’s quite a deceiver.

Fourth episode was a bore. Nothing fucking happens.

I’ve given up for now. There’s no coherent story and I don’t care about any of the characters. Really sad as I was looking forward to this show, but it’s a failure.

Calling it a failure is a bit much, I think it just needed to be paced a bit better. I'm bored by both this and House of the Dragon, although at least this show has some gorgeous vistas to offer and doesn't just take place inside a palace. The days where a show takes four or five episodes before it offers some proper action need to be over already. This is fantasy we're talking about, there should be lots and lots of action, and talkiness should be kept to a minimum.

I do have to say I've become super attached to the Dwarves and Elrond, whereas I just kind of ignored both in the movies.

I have watched all the Dragon show episode and I just started the Rings of Power...it is much better IMO. It's hard not to compare them.

Is the kid from Numenor who fucked up his shipmate apprenticeship named Isuldur? (As in THE Isuldur?)

Yes. R95, and his father is THE Elendil and brother Anarion has also been mentioned. They have deliberately collapsed the whole chronology so they can have the same humans throughout. This isn't supposition - they have said it.

My Halbrand/Sauron theory is a little shakier if he’s going back to pre-Mordor with the Numenorian host. Maybe there will be a separate Sauron that they imprison and bring back. Maybe it really will be the guy with the pre-Hobbits. I still feel like it’s Hal tho. His smith skills are basically learned directly from Aule. Those swords were waaaay too nice to be human-made. And why make a big deal of his smith skills?

The Stranger might be Tilion, Guardian of the Moon. Then again, his ice spell sounded like Radagast's enchantment in The Hobbit, so who knows.

Gil-galad is so desperate, he's turning to apocryphal tales; that mithril plan's never gonna work. I think Annatar will convince Celebrimbor that it's the rings, not the mithril that'll save the elves.

I'm a casual viewer, not a Tolkien or fantasy fanman.

But this series has engendered an interest for me.

I've only seen The Lord of the Rings series and it was good but I didn't realize the depth of the lore. Watching this prequel has made me think about who Galadriel is. In the movies, I saw her as a kind of pure, wise, angelic guide and that was all. A warrior? Never occurred to me.

I just watched clips from the movies, and the incomparable Cate Blanchett indeed is absolutely commanding and intimidating. She's not soft at all in her peformance as I remembered her being, I guess because of the beauty and the gauzy dress and the glow effect. She's rather stern and scary. I haven't seen The Hobbit and I didn't know she is in it and I will probably watch now.

I never really paid much attention. I thought this story was about big-hearted little hobbitses making big changes in the world, about wizards who die and come back to life in a way I find to be annoying cop-outs, and about good conquering evil. But I have just read some of the background, and I now understand Gandalf is effectively an angel who incarnates in human or elf or other forms and can regenerate in incarnate forms, and there's an integrity to the storytelling that substantiates the tropes.

I think I could love this if I look at the whole epic largely as Galadriel's bittersweet tragic life story, which the Amazon series seems to be largely. The hobbits are a little too cutesy for me to really invest a lot of interest in, and the demon hordes don't really do much for me, either. But following the life of a wise ancient being who has to wander the world and battle against its inevitable entropy is a pretty awesome story.

Like Morfydd Clark -- the actress playing Galadriel -- brilliantly responded to the people saying her character is too willful: "her serenity is hard earned". The Galadriel we see in LOTR is fully matured, but you can still catch glimpses of pride and a thirst for power. Also, I've seen some speculation that oaths have incredible power in Tolkien's world (confirmed in the latest episode where Elrond says an oath reaches down to the soul level), and Galadriel is currently consumed by the one she made to her brother. She's my favourite part of the show as well.

[quote]I haven't seen The Hobbit and I didn't know she is in it and I will probably watch now.

Do it. Galadriel's bits are for me the best part of those three movies.

Have we seen Annatar yet, R99? I’m wondering… I’m enjoying the series. It certainly looks spectacular. Just the armor the boys wore on the ship as they were leaving Numenor was completely stunning work, for example. It all looks outrageously expensive and crafted. Yes, the dialogue can have lots of eye rolling fantasy movie aphorisms, and some of the plot lines (like the Harfoots) are dull and not particularly well acted or written, but when the show gets going it can be exceptional.

[quote] I haven't seen The Hobbit and I didn't know she is in it and I will probably watch now.

The Hobbit series is really fucking awful. Jackson almost upended his reputation with those movies, having been given so much good will with the extraordinary Rings movies. I wouldn’t advise bothering with any of the movies. Even Cumberbatch sucks as the dragon. It’s a colossal waste of time talent and money. I would however advise watching one of the only good scenes in the movies where Galadriel comes in and saves Gandalf from the Ringwraiths with Saruman, Elrond, and eventually Radagast assisting in the fight. You get to see her at the height of her powers (or maybe just past the height) and how strong physically she is. It’s on YouTube.

We haven't seen Annatar yet, I think he'll be revealed at the very end of the first season, being part of the team working in Celebrimbor's forge tower. Which btw looks like Bruegel's Tower of Babel, no doubt intentionally.

I think the writing is great and obviously suited to (high) fantasy. Love noticing the different meters in the dialogue, I can't get that anywhere else on TV. I understand why the Harfoots are a hit or miss with people, but I'm with Gandalf on this one -- it's the little things in Middle Earth which everyone tends to ignore that hold great power.

I was so relieved to see the Harfoots moving away from proto-Mordor and heading towards the Sea of Rhûn, and not just because that makes the blue wizard theory stronger. I really don't want to see them get hurt by the orcs.

Galadriel sends Sauron back to the void here, using the vial she gives to Frodo to defeat Shelob.

Someone made a video of every single scene from the Lord of the Rings trilogy in which two female characters speak with one another. It's worth watching.

Go, Gal.

r103 I've always said we needed a cut just of Galadriel at that White Council meeting in the first movie and then banishing Sauron from Dol Guldur in the third one. The only parts of those three movies that I actually enjoyed. Maybe add in some of the wizard stuff as well.

r106 That is hysterical! And yet when Rings of Power does it, it gets a "Pronouns of Power" parody made about it. Never mind that -- unlike House of the Dragon -- it has no LGBT content and its main actor doesn't have they/them pronouns. But whatever, hatred is blind.

r105 Not just the phial wherein the light of the Silmarils (or an approximation thereof) is stored, she's also wielding Nenya, the Ring of Water, which allows her to plunge to the greatest depths to wield maximum power. She's really pulling out all the stops in that scene.

[quote]Galadriel sends Sauron back to the void here, using the vial she gives to Frodo to defeat Shelob.

And people question her portrayal as a warrior in The Rings of Power?

Yep, she eventually just exchanged her sword for one of the rings of power, plus she has her own army and her own domain in the Third Age anyway, so can afford to look sagely and send others to fight instead -- like Haldir and five hundred elvish soldiers in The Two Towers.

R7 hahaha 🤣 so true! Science is attempting to explain it! Liz T was also doing that in the doorway when she met the queen! Unable to curtsy only able to bow. A wide based stance can be a neuro issue. I hope we can avoid horse riding jokes because not all of us are tories 🤣

r6 Have you literally never seen a person standing angled in a promo pic before, or?

I swear, some of the posters on this site make me believe aliens truly are amongst us.

Oh, is that why she looks wet R109? I really don’t know enough about the different rings’ lore, and I’m hoping that this show will go more in-depth on them.

Right, I couldn’t remember what light was actually in the phial, but it’s the stored light of one of the silmaril, correct?

I really don’t get the criticisms of how Galadriel is being portrayed in this series other than chalking it up to fantasy incel misogyny. She’s certainly no Mary Jane, and she’s always been an extremely powerful character in the books and movies, so it makes perfect sense she was a warrior when younger. She’s lived for literally thousands of years and has been present through multiple world wars. She’s not some ethereal princess floating around. She has one of the rings of power.

I just ignore all the noise and nonsense. Any time I hear anything about casting different races or how women shouldn’t get to lead shows like these I just ignore it. Why would I care about straight incel bepimpled basement dwelling Cheeto munchers crying? Who cares?

[quote]They have deliberately collapsed the whole chronology so they can have the same humans throughout. This isn't supposition - they have said it.

This is one of few significant changes arising from the needs of adaptation that I can get behind without a problem. While I suppose you could focus solely on the elves and make the humans last only one season, it would have made the story extremely choppy.

What I cannot get behind is making Galadriel young - at this time in history, she is literally the oldest elf still in Middle Earth, except for maybe Cirdan. She's much older than Celebrimbor and Gil-Galad. She's one of the few elves still in Middle Earth who was born during the times of the Trees in Valinor. Her arc going from a leader of the Noldor rebellion banned from returning to Valinor after Morgoth's defeat to turning down the One Ring and being allowed to return finally is worth exploring, though.

Are they actually saying she’s younger though, or is she just younger by appearance? Given how powerful and essentially immortal she is, it makes sense she could appear quite young while still being old. They do need to make it clearer in the writing though, and they do seem to be making her young and impulsive. I wasn’t aware that she was supposed to be one of the oldest elves left. Had all the elves of her stature mostly returned to Valinor/Grey Havens at that point in history?

Does anyone have any theories as to why Gil-Galad seems to be lying all the time? The story he told to Elrond to motivate him to get Mithril from the elves seemed filled with half truths at best. What is his motivation? Are they going to go down the road that he’s Sauron? That would be pretty dark.

r114 Yep, that's exactly why she looks drenched when at the height of her power. I thought it was so neat when I saw it for the first time.

r115 Yeah, one night she simply scooped up the reflected light of the Star of Eärendil (i.e. one of the Silmarils) in that basin of water of hers in Lothlórien, called the Mirror of Galadriel, which we glimpsed in Fellowship. Pagans do that with the moon as well in some of their rituals.

Oh those wacky pagans.

She's just younger by appearance, they've never said she's actually younger. I think it works perfectly for narrative purposes as there needs to be some visual contrast between her and LOTR-Galadriel. And before we forget, Morfydd Clark is 33 and Blanchett was 30 when LOTR started filming.

In my interpretation, that look she gives to Gil-galad in the premiere when he's about to honour her with a laurel wreath isn't just her wanting to continue the search for Sauron, but partly also being annoyed that her grandnephew is acting like he knows better than her. Although I can see why she'd initially accept the offer to go back to Valinor; her brothers might all be dead, but her parents are both very much alive back home.

The Galadriel in ROP is nothing short of character assassination. She’s been reduced to an utterly generic “feisty heroine” who behaves like a hormonal, bratty teenager with no people skills whatsoever. It’s a shockingly one-note characterisation and performance.

[quote]Does anyone have any theories as to why Gil-Galad seems to be lying all the time? The story he told to Elrond to motivate him to get Mithril from the elves seemed filled with half truths at best. What is his motivation? Are they going to go down the road that he’s Sauron? That would be pretty dark.

I mentioned it upthread, but I believe he and/or Celebrimbor are already being deceived by Sauron in the background. Alternatively, he might just be really freaked out over the growing darkness now that it's come to his doorstep and so is grasping at straws, hoping to find a solution in apocryphal tales that are clearly nonsense.

[quote] Had all the elves of her stature mostly returned to Valinor/Grey Havens at that point in history?

Well, there were very few elves of her stature alive after Morgoth's defeat - as a practical matter, there were none.

Her grandfather was the High King of the Noldor. All four of her brothers died during the war.

Her father is the half-brother of Feanor who created the Silmarils (and palantir). Feanor had seven sons. Celebrimbor is Feanor's grandson. All seven of Feanor's sons died.

Elrond's great great grandfather was Galadriel's father's full brother and Feanor's half-brother.

Gil-galad's grandfather was Galdriel's father's full brother. Gil-galad became High King of the Noldor after Feanor>Maedhros (Feanor's first son)>Fingolfin (Feanor's half-brother and Galadriel's uncle)>Fingon (Gil-galad's father).

Technically, Elrond is probably her closest equal - he's descended from both Noldor royalty and from Thingol and Melian (a Maia) parents of Luthien. Legolas's father (Thranduil) and Celeborn are also related - Celeborn's grandfather is Thranduil's great grandfather.

So, Elrond, Celeborn, Thranduil, and Cirdan are probably the closest in stature although in my mind, her demonstrated greater power shows that none are truly in her class.

^^^oops, I forgot to include Celebrimbor as among those who would be her equals in stature.

r122 I disagree, she's like a stormy sea made flesh. It's such a refreshing move away from the stoic elves in LOTR and exactly the reason I liked Thranduil in The Hobbit so much.

It's not one-note either since we saw her friendship with Elrond and her enjoying riding a horse and enjoying the hell out of Elros' library as well. Currently, she's just consumed by the oath she's made to her brother and concerned about Sauron's rise, that's all.

I mostly just find it funny when people mention character assassination with respect to this character that Tolkien changed his mind on so often.

[quote]I liked Thranduil in The Hobbit so much.

While I disliked most of The Hobbit adaptation, I did like DL Fav Lee Pace's version of Thranduil - very sexy and magnificient like an elf should be. There was a restrained power to the way he moved that really captured wood elf majesty.

Will Galadriel fuck a sexy, tall human man who is uncommonly good at metalwork? Will she eat out the regent of Numenor? I don’t think it’ll add anything to her character, but I am excited for the nerd backlash if she gets a little wet.

r127 I love this scene where he flamboyantly bitches about wizards.

[quote][R127] I love this scene where he flamboyantly bitches about wizards.

People forget sometimes that elves can be pissy, e.g., Feanor and his sons.

Pace really did a good job although it's very tough to envision him also as Orlando Bloom's Legolas.

[quote] Her grandfather was the High King of the Noldor. All four of her brothers died during the war. Her father is the half-brother of Feanor who created the Silmarils (and palantir). Feanor had seven sons. Celebrimbor is Feanor's grandson. All seven of Feanor's sons died.

I have a hard time reconciling the majority of immortal beings dying so regularly. I read that in this lore, elves who die are sent off to some purgatory/heavenly restoration factory and then returned to life in a new body. Are old dead elves reborn as babies? Do they carry memories with them when they come back? Do old living elves regard newborns as old souls? How does all this work?

They die so regularly because they fight in wars, both with the forces of evil and amongst each other. The other way for an elf to perish is from extreme grief/sadness.

After a period of cleansing and self-reflection, elves can be reincarnated into bodies identical to those of their prior life. This takes place in the Halls of Mandos in Valinor.

Could I get one of those halls of mandos things in my bathroom in Miami?

R132 Well, how long does that take, because I keep reading Galadriel is one of the oldest elves, older than even the sun and the moon, and most of her family members have been killed. Is it possible they are just mortal and the reincarnation thing is just a myth? They don't seem to come back.

....

Elves may not get reincarnated in this alternative Tolkien universe, otherwise Galadriel turned her back on the opportunity of meeting her brother alive again to avenge him being killed (Tolkien notes somewhere that Finrod now walks beside his father in Valinor)

It's OK, I guess. Galadriel is kind of insufferable, they shouldn't have turned her into such a Mary Sue, people (who aren't crazy and filter everything through some idiotic ideological lens) are getting tired of skinny little white women portrayed as infallibly perfect in every way. Arondir is actually one of the better and more interesting characters, which is a bit ironic, since he's 100% the invention of the series writers, not Tolkien. The elves are all wrong with their weird gelled up Gen Z hair. I mean, I'll probably keep watching it, but it does nothing to justify its obscene budget and frankly makes me wonder anew about rumours that streaming services use big productions like this to essentially launder money.

r134 Both her mom and her dad never died and rule back in Valinor. Her brothers probably all reincarnated, but no one is going back to Middle Earth anymore (they're not allowed to) unless it's for a special task. She wants to avenge her brother, leaving this oath unfulfilled is a non-starter for her.

It's definitely not a myth because the Valar sent the previously killed Glorfindel back to Middle Earth on a similar mission to that of the wizards. Gandalf was also brought back from the dead and given the powers of Saruman by Eru Illúvitar himself, obviating the need for Mandos to resurrect him and send him over to Middle Earth on a ship again.

[quote]people are getting tired of skinny little white women portrayed as infallibly perfect in every way

In what way is this Galadriel infallibly perfect in every way? She's been nothing but trouble so far, completely consumed by the oath she made to her brother.

[quote]The elves are all wrong with their weird gelled up Gen Z hair.

Tolkien never established long hair as a key element of elvish culture. Also, Elrond has short hair in the 1978 adaptation, so this particular interpretation is nothing new.

The writing sucks, the pacing is boring, the acting is uneven

The actress who plays Galadriel was wonderful in the movie Saint Maude, but she’s terrible in this role.

I read The Hobbit when I was six years old, read the The Lord Of Rings trilogy when I was in middle school and was looking forward to this series. After all, Amazon had spent one BILLION dollars. How could it be bad?

Instead, it’s a boring abomination that looks, occasionally, pretty. The show runners should be shot.

If things don’t dramatically turn around n the next three episodes, it’s getting scrubbed from me Amazon Prime viewing list.

It tickles me because we have here all three arguments on the bingo card now that Ben Shapiro's weekly YouTube reactions have shamed people into dropping the woke angle (also because it turns out HOD is actually the far woker show of the two) -- acting, pacing, and writing. Fire up any random ROP outrage video on YouTube and suddenly everyone is an expert on writing, acting, and pacing, whereas it was all about race only a couple of weeks ago. I admit I see no issues whatsoever with any of those three aspects of the show. Not that any particular example is ever given, mind you.

Also, just the simple fact that you're referring to this entirely inoffensive TV show as an "abomination" and calling for the showrunners to be executed is such over-the-top hysteria, I really wonder whether you're twelve or simply retarded. Whatever the case, hopefully you manage to find whatever you're looking for in life, this show is obviously not going to give that to you.

Some people attack it a bit too much, sure, but by the same token, some people defend it a bit too much, too.

I'm enjoying it a lot.

The Game of Thrones-esque multiple narratives woven together among different people in different places plus the cinematography feel epic. I'm buying it. I don't think it's too slow. I like the melancholy Galadriel drifting around. I'm not so into the warrior stuff, but whatever. I love the importance of trees in various places to various races.

This show does dwarf the dragon show. It doesn't feel epic to me at all, more like a modest family drama with dragons as set decoration.

[quote]Do they carry memories with them when they come back? Do old living elves regard newborns as old souls? How does all this work?

The only direct evidence of an elf being sent back after "dying" and going to the Halls of Mandos is Glorfindel - in the books, he's actually the one who helps Frodo at the Fords of Bruinen, not Arwen, as she did in the movie.

All the others who seem to remain in the Halls of Mandos.

The "gift of men" is actually Illuvatar's gift that men actually do die and move on.

[quote]I admit I see no issues whatsoever with any of those three aspects of the show.

Congratulations r141…it’s not often that one admits to being a tasteless retard by your own words and surrounds your statement by faux moralizing.

R144 Tolkien wrote long essays on Elvish rebirth and reincarnation that have been published. Obviously his ideas changed and evolved. In LOTR Glorfindel isn't described as having been reborn and wasn't necessarily conceived of as the revived version of the Glorfindel who died in the First Age (nothing about the latter had been published at that point) - that seems to have been a Tolkien self-retcon as he was evolving his ideas. Finrod coming back to life is just as canonical or uncanonical as Glorfindel.

Apart from immortality and superior strength/agility the elves supposedly 100% anatomically human right?

R147 All their appendages are pointy!

Remember the Dark Crystal Netflix series a couple of years ago? That was MUCH better than this unfocused, stilted snoozeathon in almost every way.

[quote]Finrod coming back to life is just as canonical or uncanonical as Glorfindel.

I never said it was or wasn't.

I was merely stating that the only example of an elf who was seemingly returned from the dead into a living body was Glorfindel. He was not said to have been re-embodied in LotR. However, his history is detailed in the Silmarillion, and it's fairly well-established that he is the same Glorfindel who aided at the fall of Gondolin.

Episode six is out today.

This is a minor spoiler...

Here it comes...

Six episodes in, and this is the "Long Night" from Game of Thrones. It has to be the inspiration for that idea, and it is done SO much better than Game of Thrones did it. People hiding in the keep, ambushes, combat, losses. And it's not too dark to see anything. I don't want to sound hyperbolic, but this is really well done just as House of the Dragon is nosediving as far as I am concerned.

******complete spoiler warning*************

Yeah, Ep 6 is phenomenal. They clearly spent on it. The creation of Mordor was pretty clever. Although I would’ve preferred more focus on pre-Mt. Doom in the earlier episodes.

I’m pretty sure Halbrand is Sauron at this point. The timing of the discussion of the betrayal was too convenient. And all the smithing equipment! Sauron is a fantastic smith. I mean come on!!! Lol And the “King that was Promised” scene was too campy.

Awesome episode #6. Wow

But Finrod's return to life was also stated by Tolkien in now published texts, R150, and there are other examples (Feanor's mother came back eventually) so the position you keep repeating, that Glorfindel was the only elf who returned is clearly wrong. He does seem to have been the only one reborn who then came back to Middle-earth (Tolkien said at one point he came back with Gandalf and the other Istari), but that isn't what you said.

I am floored by the most recent episode. It is as good as the best of Game of Thrones, and since this is based on a different writer's work, one who has been revered for decades, I have a lot of hope it will remain great through its ending.

I'm in love with Isildur. And Ismael Cruz Cordova, who plays the Elvin warrior. And two others whose names I don't recall. The guy who plays the One True King is hot too.

R156 I can't remember Cruz's character's name because my brain has stamped him "pointy-eared Don Lemon."

R157 he has pretty eyes. Don Lemon is meh.

Ismael Cruz Cordova is gay, btw.

Did they just turn on Mt. Doom? Ooopsssss.

"My bad!"

So grand, so thrilling, so epic.

I have to be annoying and compare them again.

Spoilers follow.

Major spoilers to emphasize the incredible differences in storytelling.

House of Dragon:

Gay guy is beaten to death, characters grow up, aging 10 years, several people are set on fire, only one by a dragon, central character and her gay husband take the kids and move.

Rings of Power:

After several episodes of people complaining not enough action was going on, too slow a build (like the real Game of Thrones), Enemies invade protective stone tower. Big battle. Elf outsmarts enemies by pulling down the tower on top of the invading army. He says it's not over; enemies come back and attack while women, kids and old people hide out. Broadscale and intense personal fights. Good guys win, unmask enemies and discover they were tricked into killing their former friends and community members. A secondary character is shot with an arrow. The real bad guys arrive, break into the keep, kill lots of innocent people one at a time. The leader gets the magic object he came for. As he's about to flee, a magical army of invulnerable people arrive and slaughter all the bad guys. Commander she-elf chases down bad guy, whispering magical words to make her horse a turbo horse. She reclaims the magic object of doom, brings it home. But no; it was swapped with an everyday object, and one of the former 'good guys' is compelled to use the magic object and force it into a stone, unlocking massive dams that threaten to flood the entire region. We prepare for a deluge to sweep away the good guys. But no! The water flows underground, into magma, building steam and exploding an entire mountain that seemingly kills everyone with flying molten boulders and shockwaves and black ash. Our hero elf queen is taken by it.

House of the Dragon is giving us a daytime soap opera fantasy in a Dark Ages setting and with only one storyline. Even soaps weave together multiple family stories to keep our interest.

Rings of Power did not take as much time as Game of Thrones did to meander and build character, but it spend enough to make this huge scene thrilling and terrifying. And my god, the twists. All of Game of Thrones was a build up to "the dark night," which featured an oncoming army of supernatural bad guys seen only by the toches they carried while non-fighters hid in the basement, and then they were easily defeated by a girl poking one of them in the belly. This gave us the same fight within the first half and then escalated the stakes times 20.

At this point, I'm feeling annoyed by the people who criticize the Galadriel actress and the slow pace of Rings of Power. It seems clear to me that the series is playing a long game, intending for Galadriel to be a feisty, revenge obsessed young person who will grow wiser over time, whereas on House of the Dragon, we got three good characters (Rhanaera, Allicent and the king) for half the season, and then two were exchanged with different actors who approach the characters differently and the third has become a simpering 🐱-whipped old man who has totally betrayed his daughter. It's a soapy drama, the fantasy is incidental, and the characters feel more like character sketches than people who we should care about. The only interesting aspect to me at this point is the evil queen having been made into what she is from a blank slate of a person who wants to survive. But that story has been told. I honestly don't care about the king anymore. He can die. I don't care much about his daughter. She's not interesting anymore. I never really cared about the uncle. And I can't keep up with any other characters. By the time they tell us a name, they kill them. Bah.

*SPOILER WARNING FOR EP 8*

Haha I was right about Halbrand. The craftsmanship was emphasized so very much. And this beautifully sets up a second season where he gets taken back to Numenor in chains and eventually sinks them.

We know Isildur isn’t dead, so what will he do before his dad comes back to Middle Earth? Have gay sex, I hope. But we’ll see.

Bad pacing

Terrible writing

Laughable acting

Hallbrand was of course Sauron, because he was the only white, competent, attractive male on the show, and only whites are villains

And the cardinal sin: BORING

I won’t waste my time on the 2nd season

Amazon has put out some real turds with Wheel Of Time and now Rings Of Power. The head of Amazon Prime video needs to clean house.

I loved Halbrad as Sauron. It was close enough to the lore to be faithful but creative enough not to bore book fans.

R164 what show are you watching?

[quote]Amazon has put out some real turds with Wheel Of Time and now Rings Of Power. The head of Amazon Prime video needs to clean house.

Both are rather incoherent and fail to capture what made the books beloved by fans.

[...]

I'm not a Tolkien nerd and the show is getting me much closer to being one. I have a friend who has watched the movies over 100 times each (she swears it's true) and she is watching this series specifically as the creation story that feeds into the movies. I am just watching it as an adventure story and I'm really loving it. It's got everything anyone could want from an epic, and it's got me reading about Tolkien mythologies. I've watched the three movies twice each and so I have not committed most of the lore to memory, but bits and pieces tie together obviously and I'm enjoying that and it makes me want to rewatch the movies with greater attention.

I turned on the Wheel of Time show when it came out and it didn't engage my interest at all.

I was a Game of Thrones fan until the story was ruined by the writers, and I hoped House of the Dragon might have been created very thoughtfully since HBO has had time to take in the universal opinion that GoT was great until it was a horrible mindless fantasy-trope show in the final two seasons, but the network/producers seem to have chosen horribly written gothic fantasy-trope show over great and careful storytelling. The dragon show doesn't hold a candle to Rings of Power in my opinion.

[quote]I was shocked that he was Sauron...The actor who plays Halbrand is fucking hot and beautiful.

Unfortunately, anyone who knows anything about the LotR and Sauron could tell he was Sauron.

The fact that he is hot and beautiful is, in fact, the single biggest clue that he was the most likely character to be Sauron.

That the meteor man wasn't all that hot and too old was the biggest clue he wasn't Sauron. That he's quoting Gandalf ("when in doubt, follow your nose") actually makes it poor writing if he doesn't turn out to be Gandalf, as lore breaking as it would be, since Gandalf is known to have first come to Middle Earth in 1000 of the Third Age and received the Elven ring, Narya, from Cirdan when he arrived at the Grey Havens.

R170 He's obviously Gandalf. He has the beard. He's been befriended by a proto-hobbit and has already told her that small people can make big positive contributions in the world. He controlled his powers using a staff. He announced "I'm good" while using it. He said the Istar name means "wise one...or in your language...WIZARD." Tolkien's wizards are angelic beings. Gandalf means 'wand elf,' what humans call him, so he's likely to appear to human beings with his staff and be mistaken for an elf.

If the writers are doing a bait and switch on his character with so many specifically identifying details, then they really are being too 'tricksy' for their own good.

[quote]If the writers are doing a bait and switch on his character with so many specifically identifying details, then they really are being too 'tricksy' for their own good.

That was my point - and my concern, given what they've already done.

I can see them deciding he's one of the Blue Wizards who disappeared - notably in the east.

Loved the reveal, or twist, in the finale.

It's a great fantasy adventure show. It doesn't feel very Tolkien, but it looks great. Can't wait for next season.

I just turned on the first LOTR movie and it opens with Galadriel narrating the big-picture story. It never occurred to me before the Amazon series that Galadriel is so central, but I think I'm going to think of the whole epic in terms of it being Galadriel's story from now on.

I just found out the guy who plays young Elrond played young Ned Stark in Game of Thones.

He'd better hope he can do more than "young".

I wonder if they’re supposed to have already made the Elven and human rings, while Hal was helping them. There’s supposed to only be 10 more years until he forges the one ring.

Sorry, I meant “…the Dwarvish and Human rings…”

I doubt it, they rushed to secretly forge the 3. I'd say he'll forge the rest in Mordor and the one after everyone gets their "Gifts."

Why did Halbrand leave, did Galadiel defeat him and cast him out, or did he leave on his own even though he was so close to what he wanted all this time?

R180 They didn't explicitly say, but it was clear that 1) she tried to kill him; 2) he used a great power against her; 3) she overcame it; and 4) he made his way to Mordor, presumably to move in now that the rings are underway. So basically, it seems he was found out and the jig was up, so he got outta town. He couldn't defeat Galadriel with his mental illusions, so she may be too strong willed for him to stay safe from her if he stays. That was my guess, anyway.

Also, they need the plot to move toward him taking over Mount Doom, so on they go.

Sauron controlling all the enslaved orcs and men and so on makes some kind of logical sense. He engineered them and he has an unnatural power to rule over them and he gives them their not-alive/not-dead life force.

Watching and thinking about this reveals George R R Martin to be derivative and much less thoughtful. I nevrr understood throughout the run of Game of Thrones that the white walkers are enslaved magical servants of the Night King. I assumed they were a different species. If it was ever explained, then I missed it, but I don't think it was explained.

When Sauron is killed and his whole army disappears, that follows the logic of the story's magic as it is carefully described.

When the Night King was poked in the belly with Arya's knife and his whole army vaporized and the Long Night was over in an instant, that felt like a mindless video game ending. Now I am guessing we were supposed to understand the forces at work because the white walkers after all are just blue orcs and the Night King after all was just blue Sauron.

Last scene of the season finale- that evil Sauron guy.

r183 I like to get him inside my ( hairy ) ring of power.

Am I the only one who thinks Fiona Apple's voice was off in that finale song? The show's soundtrack features the instrumental version, and it's way better without her voice.

R185 I didn't even notice the song or that she sang it. I like Fiona a lot. Her artsy cabaret style of singing does in my mind feel like an odd fit for a Dark Ages-like fantasy setting.

How did you not understand that Game of Thrones wasn’t just some Dark Ages history with LOTR bastardized and thrown in. Even the people who read the books know that. George RR Martin isn’t even derivative, he’s pastiche.

Overall I’ve enjoyed the score R185. McCreary clearly had a lot of resources at hand and it sounded great throughout the season. But that song was a big ugly misfire.

R187 Let's see...I've never read Tolkien or any fantasy. I saw Lord of the Rings one time, and that was 20 years ago. I didn't investigate his mythologies and I didn't commit everything from the too-long movies to memory. And I didn't grow up in the Church of Tolkien.

How do you expect people unfamiliar with Tolkien to recognize his influences in other people's writing?

It's tough to explain who the elves are in just a few sentences. Their history is very deep and varied. For all questions about LOTR and Tolkien characters, follow this channel on youtube. Unlike comic superheroes , the Tolkien characters have incredible depth and history.

R190 Thanks for sharing that. I appreciate it and the work that went into it...but it is pretty much just a taxonomy of a bunch of info that seems relatively irrelevant to the story and I don't know anything more about the natures of the elves after having watched it. It reminds me of the Book of Genesis when the wacky and wonderful and wild stories of creation suddenly just become an endless list of who begat whom with no explanation for why any of that should matter to anyone.

Now, wouldn't it be something if it turns out Isildur didn't destroy the ring, because he wanted to keep a memento of his romantic relationship with Halbrand aka Sauron?

r191 You've just perfectly summarised the Silmarillion.

Kinda feel like Isildur’s return will be cringey. I hope he has an interesting personal journey in the meantime.

I think I'm in love with Max Baldry, who plays Isildur.

While this show managed to be more violent than the LOTR/Hobbit films one line they never crossed is nudity/sex. I mean seem like everybody in Middle Earth must be asexual nor ever took off their clothes.

Those cute playful Numenor sailor boys should be engaging is some kind of buttsex during their free time.

Lord of the Rings has always felt in some ways like it's made for sophisticated children as well as for adults.

My father used to play an animated Hobbit movie for us when my sister and I were kids. I was very young, kindergarten through probably second grade. I hated it. I didn't get it. It was so quiet and boring and I wouldn't have understood any of the mythology that's required for enjoying it.

But a lot of young people grew up almost religiously devoted to Tolkien's fantasies, which became evident by high school, and we can see above by the person who seemed angry that everyone wouldn't inherently understand GRRM writes Tolkien pastiches. You'd have to be familiar with Tolkien to recognize that and some people are just immersed in his ideas from birth like churchgoers assume everyone understands everything Christian and dogmatic.

[quote]see above by the person who seemed angry that everyone wouldn't inherently understand GRRM writes Tolkien pastiches.

The problem with the GRRM criticism is that Tolkien himself is operating with even older literary traditions. From dwarves to dragons hoarding gold to a direct knock-off of Paradise Lost in the opening of the Silmarillion, what makes Tolkien great is what he added to those, not that he came up with them.

There are many problems with GRRM, not the least of which is that he appears to suffer from the Jar Jar Abrams problem of coming up with mindblowing reveals, but having no way of tying them up to finish the story in a satisfying manner (Lost, Alias). But, whatever he might have drawn from Tolkien, he added a huge dimension of political intrigue and more adult themes. Comparisons of John Snow and Aragorn are superficial at best.

The first few books were a good read (you really cannot compare the show to the books, no matter how much people want to conflate them, as GRRM was not ultimately responsible for the show). The books had a much more gritty realism to them than traditional fantasy novels. As a practical matter, the publication of these books spawned a significant shift in the genre toward much grittier stories. It was like the reboot Battlestar Galactica vs. the old show when looking at the shift.

Too bad it's not Tolkien.

All those cunts....