Theatre Gossip #489: The "Some Like It Shot! Alec Baldwin's Back On Bway" Edition

And in case anyone was warming to Lea Michele too much....

Read the article r1 before you try and start some shit. She was afraid because she felt intimidated that she was around someone she considered a real star.

"some like it shot?" ...why op... How are you...

So fucking hilarious!!! Seriously, love your vibe. You are the prevailing life force of all creation.

What a boring season! Where is the pizazz?

Director Maria Friedman discusses MERRILY. (Interview is from 2013)

Last time I remember Baldwin on Broadway was in a revival of orphans it gained some notoriety when there appeared to be conflict between Baldwin and Shia LaBeouf. Shia was fired but the production was not a success.

OP, you could have done better.

Way too soon. He should've waited at least a year.

Any suggestions, r7? We were all waiting with bated breath at the end of the last thread for a brilliant new title suggestion. This was all we got.

(I don't mind the title, but I will bitch about THEATRE GOSSIP not being in all caps. When did we get away from that? But you remembered the Edition part, which some don't, so that's good.)

"Orphans" is a pretty good play, but not as good as the early Harold Pinter plays that inspired it.

The only potential upside of Baldwin's return to Broadway would be the possible blow to his ego if the show bombs and it's clear how little people want anything to do with him now.

I say possible because I doubt it would really hit home. His ego's large enough to endure such a blow. He'd probably blame the other actors, or the producers, or the advertising, or anything else under the sun. He is, after all, completely blameless in all things.

and then there's this

R10 I saw an excellent off-Broadway production of Orphans in New York performed by the Steppenwolf Theater Company with John Mahoney and Kevin Anderson in the 80s.

R6 Loved the film of orphans. The Scottish accents were so strong it had subtitles for an American audience...but they often strayed from what was being said, rarely subtitling cunt, which was used often.

Might as well go for broke and have Rudin produce 'Art'.

I believe the Olivia Coleman revival will be Glass Menagerie.

...or Streetcar. But definitely Williams.

The Scottish orphans and their accents were a long way from North Philly...

[quote]Olivia Colman is a bit too old for either of the women in THE CHILDREN'S HOUR, in my opinion.

"The Children's Hour" is more than a bit too old for a Broadway revival.

[quote]Way too soon. He should've waited at least a year.

He has mouths to feed, doncha know?

Awesome. We get to see him kill some new rando cracker bitch right in the face.

Maybe Colman should just do William Luce's "Lillian."

[Quote] Olivia Colman is a bit too old for either of the women in THE CHILDREN'S HOUR, in my opinion.

But fine for Streetcar??!

[quote]I believe the Olivia Coleman revival will be Glass Menagerie.

Just what Broadway needs to get out of its slump. Another revival of "The Glass Menagerie." Might as well go for broke and do "Gypsy" again the same season.

.,.,

Olivia Coleman *IS* Sarah in Ragtime!

Wait she can do Glass Menagerie and Gypsy in rotation!

Olivia Colman is not right for The Glass Menagerie. You have to believe that when Amanda was younger, she had gentlemen callers.

Maybe Sharon D. Clarke dropped out of Death of a Salesman and it’s Olivia to the rescue.

Re: Orphans original cast - were rumors true that John Mahoney and Kevin Anderson were an item?

Lettice and Lovage

Doubt Olivia would want to step into Dame Maggie's pumps.

Man, the Post is really reaching with that Lea Michelle article. DESPERATELY scraping the bottom of the barrel for something ANYTHING to make her looking grasping cunty and awful.

Unfortunately for them, Lea has top tier PR and (unlike Olivia Wilde) has managed to listen to them and apply what they’ve asked for, and so far this has been an exemplary roll out.

If it’s true that she’s doing Williams, Summer and Smoke or Iguana seem more appropriate …

Olivia couldn’t be more wrong for Blanche. That would be a terrible idea.

From the previous thread:

[Quote] The CAA production of Art is not that unusual. Many shows go into rehearsal underfunded. Several years ago, there was a Godspell Broadway revival that started production and they were trying to do an early version of crowd funding. I can’t remember how low each block was, but I think anyone could invest in $1,000 increments.

This isn’t about funding. This is about having no a lead producer. Ken Davenport was producing Godspell and the crowdfunding was his idea as producer. I can’t think of a prior show that an agency entirely packaged that went public before having a producer and announced publicly that it’s “auditioning” producers.

It’s Coward

I can see Olivia Colman in Hay Fever as Judith. She's not an Amanda or a Ruth or an Elvira.

Olivia Colman and Lesley Manville in Noel Coward's FALLEN ANGELS! Remember, r551 from the former thread said there were 2 leading ladies in the play.

I'd buy a ticket.

[quote]She's not an Amanda or a Ruth

But is she a Phyllis or a Sally?

My guess is that they’re doing Arsenic and Old Lace.

At least she fist age-wise.

Ooh! Arsenic and Old Lace is a good guess, r40! So many of those middle aged British dames to co-star.

I could sort of see Olivia as Hannah Jelkes in NIGHT OF THE IGUANA but they'd need an A list star to play Shannon. Also, a fierce Maxine wouldn't hurt.

I cannot believe Olivia Colman is only 47. She looks at least a decade older.

ARSENIC AND OLD LACE?? Why not ABIE'S IRISH ROSE?

Olivia Coleman IS Amanda

Private Lives

Co-star Rupert Everett

Let's talk grosses.

Why not, r43?

Strange Loop is going to be killed by the attention of the newer shows. They better figure something out and fast. $578K, down $54K from last week.

ASL should fire everyone and hired Tituss Burgess

ASL is closing in January and being filmed by Netflix. They will pour money into running it until Jan.

Wouldn't it make more sense for Baldwin to return to Broadway in Michael Arden's High Noon?

R39, She wouldn't have a Willy or a Sam!

Baldwin should play Harry Roat in a revival of Wait Until Dark. In another country.

Jesse Green shut the fuck up about your take on "Reformation" because you're full of shit. Instead why hasn't the Times actually done some [italic] reporting [/italic] on what ventilation protocols theaters have actually implemented for audiences' and performers' safety? It's lovely to ask people how they [italic] feel [/italic] about social justice but what about some actual journalism? Oh, that's harder? I'm sorry.

If I’m not mistaken, every single play by a Black author lost money on Broadway. Every. Single. One. It’s pretty ballsy to blame it on the “lack of outreach” by the producers….

And as for institutional and regional theaters, if they only program shows about race and racism, their subscriber base will evaporate. Entirely.

And no, I don’t want to see a show in a library, thanks.

Just happened to be keeping count, eh r54?

Olivia Colman would be a perfect Dotty Otley in Noises Off.

I fucking love this idea of Olivia Colman in “The Killing of Sister George.” That would be brilliant.

Who fucking cares if it’s dated.

[quote]I cannot believe Olivia Colman is only 47. She looks at least a decade older.

Thanks for posting, G.

Is there anyone alive who read that Jesse Green article in its entirety? I don't think I got through even half of it.

He should stick to editing Mary Rodgers.

[quote]ARSENIC AND OLD LACE?? Why not ABIE'S IRISH ROSE?

Isn't "Tobacco Road" overdue for a revival?

UNCLE TOM'S CABIN!

Jesse Green *Is* Eveline in a new revival of The Wiz!

[quote]ARSENIC AND OLD LACE?? Why not ABIE'S IRISH ROSE?

Broadway audiences love spectacle. It's time to revive "The Black Crook"!

CAA "auditioning" producers is Broadway's nightmare. They're trying to do what they did in the 90s that let to the partial collapse of the studio system -- "package" talent and force a producer to take everyone involved, and they get triple the fees. They've been trying to work their way into Broadway for awhile and its always a disaster (Bruce Willis in Misery...). If this happens, the chosen producer will have everyone in town working against him/her to make sure the production flops. There's not one good show/production that's ever been agency driven -- and they usually fight against the shows that are good. West Coast bullshit at its worst.

Beanie Feldstein IS "Our American Cousin."

CAA doesn't care if its any good. They just care if it's there. Then they move on.

Love you r64 and r66. I agree, and CAA is the worst.

AKB finally meets a Bear whose advances he doesn’t like.

Of course AKB is on TikTok.

I can't stop thinking about Olivia Colman in NOISES OFF now, thanks to the upthread poster! That would be marvelous. Would be great to have a big comedy on Bway next season. I know the show is done a lot, but it's really great.

Olivia Colman in "Lettuce and Lovage" gets me hard.

^ How many years has it been, dear?

r68 FFS, just close the door and wait for it to leave. But I guess that wouldn't make "content". He'll be trying to got a sponsorship deal with the makers of the horn now

First time this millennium?

Olivia seems to choose her projects with great discernment, often with off-beat and challenging roles and projects. I can't see her jumping onboard something so easy like Noises Off, no matter how great she might be in it. Not that I don't love the play.

I could imagine her taking on A Perfect Ganesh (with the right co-star) before many of these more familiar titles. Though maybe that title wouldn't sell at Broadway prices, even with her. and, say, Lesley Manville.

[quote] Olivia Colman in "Lettuce and Lovage"

Oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear!

[quote]Olivia Colman in "Lettuce and Lovage"

We need more roughage in our theatrical diets!

I renew my suggestion from the previous post that I want to see Olivia Colman in "Doubt."

R78 I can totally see her as the priest.

Has she ever played Jessie Matthews?

I love the Mary Rodger’s book, but Jesse Green’s footnotes really wear you down. It’s like meeting Harry Styles at a party but Ben Platt keeps butting in.

Wouldn't it make more sense for Baldwin to return to Broadway in Michael Arden's High Noon?

or Annie Get Your Gun R50

Harry Styles...? You're trying to make this book fail?

Is Michael Arden interested in On Golden Pond?

Isn't AKB pushing 40? Why does he still sound like a 14 year old girl?

lord, what does the Jesse Green article say?

Jesse thinks all theater is racist. Do you think he felt that when he worked at Playwrights?

I know a guy who is in Branden Jacobs-Jenkins perfect audience demographic: Young, gay, black. When I once asked if he'd like to see his latest play which got great reviews my only response back was a blank look. Then he said he can't wait to see The Cher Show.

[quote]I renew my suggestion from the previous post that I want to see Olivia Colman in "Doubt."

Or a biopic about "No Doubt."

Olivia Coleman *IS* Mary Flynn

Olivia Coleman is an interesting actress. She’s often effortlessly thrilling on film - her performance in Tyrannosaur I think is one of the greatest film performances of the last 20 years.

But having seen her on stage in Hay Fever and Mosquitoes, she isn’t half as exciting. Perfectly fine in both, but nowhere near as interesting as she is even in a throwaway film or television role.

I seem to remember Olivia Colman saying somewhere that she truly loves the rehearsal process of putting on a play, but once it's up and running she enjoys it far less.

The conductor Herman Scherchen was like that, R92. Not that that's particularly relevant to this thread, but thought I'd share. I'm procrastinating.

Hold up ... so what you're saying is, Alec Baldwin is not throwing away his shot?

So I leave the sardines? No, I take the sardine.....no I take the newspaper and leave the sardines.....

Watched the 2015 production of As You Like It on National Theatre At Home yesterday. It had a true coup de theatre, scenically. The early scenes were set in an open plan corporate office (why? no idea, never explained, although Duke Frederick was played as the CEO) with lots of desk and chairs all in rows. Once the wrestling match (played as a sort of corporate team-building exercise) was over and Rosalind, Celia, et al bolted for the Forest of Arden, the office was lifted toward flies and all the chairs and desks were revealed to be chained together and they dangled in a hodgepodge over the stage for the rest of the show. Initially very impressive (and impressively lit) but not exactly a, you know, forest by any stretch of the imagination. Rosalie Craig (late of Company in London) was a bit shouty as Rosalind, but the Celia, Orlando and Jaques were quite good (Fra Fee played Amiens and, good lord, the man can sing). I may have clapped like I child when I realized Siobhan McSweeney -- hilarious as Sister Michael on Derry Girls -- was playing Audrey.

You can’t claim to be gay if you haven’t seen the tv series Beautiful People.

I make no claims whatsoever, instead I do!

More Olivia.

Olivia Colman has a face like a dropped pie.

I was surprised to learn that Robert Lupone's brother, William, is his twin. Did Patti ever mention that?

R101-No, but Robert did.

Guys, please, there's simply no E in Olivia Colman's name.

Thank you.

Jesse Green's argument that the theatre has longstanding systemic racism / inequities is reckless hyperbole. Even historically, the theatre has been one of the MOST inclusive havens for minorities and women.

It's such a revisionist misreading of history and a denial of the progress made over the last 40 years. And in particular, the last decade especially as it relates to colorblind (and even gender neutral) casting.

He's clearly pandering to the wokiest of woke. Which unfortunately, NY theatre is chock a block full of. They may think their progressive liberals, but they're anything BUT.

As an addendum to the above -- Green, like so many academic types, seems to forget that Broadway and regional theaters (even the ones deemed not-for-profit) are BUSINESSES. Programming comes down to appeasing the greatest possible number of people (across as many demographics as possible) to fill those seats and subscription series.

Yes, a good chunk of the theatre going audience wants to be challenged, surprised and delighted by new authors, new actors, new stories. But there's still a huge contingent of the public (arguably, the MAJORITY) that simply want familiar, escapist entertainment. This includes splashy revivals and adaptations of popular IP from other mediums. Those are NOT new concepts for the 21st Century theater. This is how it's always been and will forever be.

So WHO makes up that majority? That's typically how theatre owners decided upon their season. Well, up until all this social justice crusading and WSYWAT manifestos. Art for art sake is a lovely concept. Inclusion for inclusion sake is also important. The two CAN and often DO exist in the commercial theatre. But these are secondary to the commercial enterprise of putting on a show. It's not nearly as racist or prejudice as any of these woke academic / journalist types want to paint it. It's actually more a case about playing to the lowest common denominator. And that often isn't just one group. It's Black/White, Old/Young, Men/Women, Gay/Straight, Locals/Tourists...

It's a HUGE oversimplification to think that what's produced vs. what's not produced hinges on some insidious prejudice/systemic racism. Much like million dollar Hollywood blockbusters, it's about producing IP that gets as many bums in seats as possible. The only color these producers care about is the GREEN.

I forget, did she turn out to be the murderer on that seaside murder mystery?

[quote]Guys, please, there's simply no E in Olivia Colman's name.

Yes, please take that unnecessary 'E' from ColEman and Laurie MetcalfE and give it to AnnE.

Rachael Lily Rosenbloom feels a disturbance ...

I've been looking online for the album version of Carrie's When There's No One sung by Betty Buckley. I was certain she'd put it on one of her albums back in the day (I know the original show had no cast album)....but I'm not finding the track.

Am I crazy? Did she never record it in the 90s or 00s?

Did a bootleg of the benefit concert of The Superman Musical with Cheyenne Jackson ever leak?

r109 there's something on youtube, and the description says "This is from Buckley's 1993 album, "Children Will Listen"."

I hope it's what you wanted.

[quote]Jesse Green's argument that the theatre has longstanding systemic racism / inequities is reckless hyperbole. Even historically, the theatre has been one of the MOST inclusive havens for minorities and women.

So your response to "reckless hyperbole" is more reckless hyperbole? They're also not mutually exclusive. It's perfectly possible that theatre could have been the most inclusive form of media, and that systemic racism still existed within it

"a good chunk of the theatre going audience wants to be challenged"

This is not true. The works that are treated as "challenging" are really nothing more than preaching to the choir - reinforcing what a certain audience already thinks and believes.

A play like "Sweat" did actually challenge the views of the typical non-flyover audience. And it closed quickly.

So the flyover audience wants to escapism. But the "looking for a challenge" audience is really looking for affirmation.

R111 I think that's the best rendition of the song. Her voice is amazing on it.

[quote] So your response to "reckless hyperbole" is more reckless hyperbole?

r112, there's no hyperbole in r104's statement:

Even historically, the theatre has been one of the MOST inclusive havens for minorities and women.

Name a more inclusive . Sure we should have had more racially diverse directors and producers but nonetheless, theater has had a pioneering and long-standing spirit of broad inclusion - for gays, for blacks, for women, for Jews, for Asians, et al. Look at Joe Papp's work in the Park, R&H musicals and casting opportunities, etc etc and judge the activities by the standards of their time

[r109] it’s recorded on her album “Children Will Listen” it’s out of print, but available on Ebay.

If you mean the murdered young boy, r106, she was not the killer.

r115 I notice how you completely ignore the first half of r104's claim: that theatre being more inclusive than other forms of media means it can't possibly be home to systemic racism. That isn't hyperbole?

CHILDREN OF EDEN is happening. Any fans?

[quote]Beanie Feldstein IS "Our American Cousin."

Where's John Wilkes Booth when you really need him?

What Jesse Green misses of course is that nobody wants to see inferior plays by black authors. There's a reason why Raisin in the Sun or the plays of August Wilson are perpetually popular among black and white audiences. They're fantastic and dramatic works. Just a few seasons ago we had another excellent new black play -- IS GOD IS by Aleshea Harris. That was really popular in New York and is having many successful productions around the world.

I know many intelligent black theatergoers who were absolutely insulted by things like Slave Play or Chicken and Biscuits -- dreck that somehow found its way on Broadway. Black people can smell bullshit just as well as white people. If a play (or its author) has to threaten, coerce, or otherwise shame audiences for not coming to see their work (because they're not "supporting" black theater makers or whatever) -- then clearly they have failed to make something good.

But for whatever reason the theatre community (including regional theatre) seems fully prepared to sink itself on inferior plays that fulfill some sort of social quota. They will go bankrupt, but at least they can blame everybody else for their demise.

Well said R121!

Blaming racism is the lazy, easy way to shirk the truth.

Song from musical version of THE NOTEBOOK at link.

Pleasant, in a pop groove, I guess. Thoughts?

R121 is right. SOMEONE should be supporting black writers and directors, and indeed audiences, to ensure that there is a stronger Black theatre in 10 years than there is now, but it shouldn't be Broadway producers, who are running a business and should be putting on shows they believe people will come to. It would be nice if they would offer to subsidise such support by offering a small percentage of the profits for it from shows that are runaway hits, but they shouldn't be asked to risk their shirts on mounting shows audiences don't want.

In countries with subsidised theatre companies like the National Theatre, it's possible to do a lot more. The larger subsidised companies all have smaller theatres in their buildings, plus dramaturgs and mentors within the company who can help develop whatever sector they think needs it. At the same time they have education programs for young or diverse audiences, and can market product to the small theatre-nerd audience that wants to see developing talent for a low ticket price. These things do work, but they take time and you can't ask a commercial producer with only one auditorium in his theatre and enough personnel to mount one production to take it on.

The Lea Michele NY Times profile dropped today.

Thank you r111 and r116 for the info!

As is typical with Betty, it's a slightly rejiggered arrangement. Can't she ever just keep the tempo consistent and reign her pianist in?

Still great though.

What do you think are the best songs a Broadway singer recorded on a personal album? Like when a singer loves a song from a show that didn't get a cast album, so they sung it on their own record.....

[r126] must be nice to have The NY Times involved in your rehabilitation tour.

Funny how everyone refused to comment for that profile except for Groff and Michael Mayer.

She really has no friends.

From the profile:

[quote] “According to Groff, Murphy lightheartedly said, ‘This was the first time I’ve had dinner with Lea where the main topic of the conversation wasn’t about her, what she wanted to do next creatively.’”

Groff can certainly be a little shit stirrer when he wants to be.

[quote]At least she fist age-wise.

Pics, please!

[quote]Where's John Wilkes Booth when you really need him?

Perhaps I may offer my services.

Why aren’t Athol Fugard’s plays revived in NYC? Have they dated? I remember loving The Road to Mecca back in the very late 80’s.

Yeah, I saw the Peggy Olsen revival of The Children’s Hour several years ago now and it was creaky. Amazing cast though incl. Ellen Burstyn, Carol Kane and Tobias Menzies.

They have to cast the fuck out of it to make it play in NYC.

R133 the Signature Theatre did a long-form retrospective of his plays from 2012-2019, and the Road to Mecca was revived on Broadway in 2012. I agree I would like to see more of his work produced, but Boesman and Lena (the most recent of his plays in NY) was a big slog. I wish somebody would revive A Lesson from Aloes.

I would warn Lea that as the Witch says in “Children Will Listen” : wishes come true…not free.

Also: sometimes the things you most wish for…are not to be touched!

or "Statements" with some famous and handsome POC guy acting most of the play naked.

Nobody wants to see Night of the Iguana. What a snooze.

What play is Alec Baldwin doing?

Love her or hate her Lea will sell tickets.

Jesse Green and Jacqueline Stewart should get in a WOKE battle.....

That NYT article isn't great rehab. Lea shows she hasn't changed. The "If I were a man" whining at the end... oy.

Alec is playing Porgy at the Dallas Music Theatre.

Bedtime reading For you r65

With regards to diversity, I think the question thatcneeds to be asked is:

Do black artists even want to work in theater?

More money can be made in tv and movies and there is a bigger audience.

If you’re a young black artist and were given the chance to work on a Shonda Rhimes project or something that Lincoln Center is doing because they are behind in diversity numbers, which would you choose?

I’d Rather Be Blue from the FG movie is being added to the show for Lea.

I, for one, am pretty tired of hearing black performers, writers, etc. whining about racism on Broadway. We are in the " woke" period of stage, television, and film in which producers are scrambling to get black performers so they are not called "racist." August Wilson wrote about needing black writers, etc. telling the story of the black experience, rather than taking the white experience with black performers. There are now media moguls who are black. Whine to them about their abandonment of the black community, except for hip-hop culture. They should lead the fight in financially supporting writers, directors, and producers who can articulate their stories. Put the pressure on them.

[quote] I’d Rather Be Blue from the FG movie is being added to the show for Lea.

Now that's some theater gossip r 146. So they're really making changes to the production huh?

If that's true, r146, WHY? Why add yet another song that BS has already made her own?

Why make a show longer that's already way too long?

Here’s the link

The article is fine. The lack of comment from various people is not surprising given the only people the Times attempted to interview were people that hate her. I found that odd to say the least.

I wanted My Man you fuckers!

I wonder if Leah will tap as well as Patty Lapone.

[quote]I wonder if Leah will tap as well as Patty Lapone.

At least she can probably spell Patti LuPone.

Didn't you read the article? LM is illiterate.

That song from The Notebook is entirely undramatic and has no stakes.

Leah’s singing a song from the Notebook? I don’t even remember there being any in the movie, did Celine do one at the end or something?

r152 You say that like it's not the case that the publicist of the interview subject will provide contact details for a few people willing to speak in favour of their client. And all Lea managed was Groff and Mayer

The stage show FUNNY GIRL had a score by Jule Styne and Bob Merrill and included no actual Fanny Brice numbers. I winder how the Styne and Merrill estates feel about including a song not from the show or its creators.

They probably feel like cashing the checks that roll in as long as the show keeps playing.

[quote]The stage show FUNNY GIRL had a score by Jule Styne and Bob Merrill and included no actual Fanny Brice numbers. I winder how the Styne and Merrill estates feel about including a song not from the show or its creators.

The movie did it first, adding actual Fanny Brice numbers to the Styne-Merrill score, including replacing "That Makes Me Dance" with the Brice signature song that inspired it, "My Man."

Does the estate make less money when outside songs are added into the show?

[quote]Yes, a good chunk of the theatre going audience wants to be challenged, surprised and delighted by new authors, new actors, new stories. But there's still a huge contingent of the public (arguably, the MAJORITY) that simply want familiar, escapist entertainment. This includes splashy revivals and adaptations of popular IP from other mediums. Those are NOT new concepts for the 21st Century theater. This is how it's always been and will forever be.

Opera houses didn't worry about selling tickets when they cast Black divas to preform for their audiences who are made up of a majority of white people too. If the talent is there the audience will be all right with it.

We know that, R162.

Does that Times article mention anything about better costumes for Lea?

If I were her, I would DEFINITELY provide my own wigs.

Will the Times, Post, etc. review Lea (and Tovah)? The Times reviewed Reba when she stepped into AGYG.

I'd love to know how Lea respecting "their world" (I presume she means the performers already in the show) manifests itself. No doubt Tovah has suggested ways in which Lea could show her respect and appreciation...

Broadway divas who did a shortened performance week:

Mary Martin

Patti LuPone

Sarah Brightman

Lea Salongna

Lea Michelle

Bette Midler

Broadway divas who could sustain:

Jennifer Holliday

Ethel Merman

R169 Ha, indeed.

[quote]Will the Times, Post, etc. review Lea (and Tovah)?

Yes.

R170, are you referring to Mary Martin in I DO! I DO! when she was 53 in a two-person musical? She played a full eight performances a week in her next Broadway show as well as her previous nine Broadway shows.

If Lea actually gets decent reviews, I wonder if she'll get to do the whole show live (or "live") as a special TV broadcast.

R170 Jennifer Holiday missed a lot of performances in Dreamgirls. That’s not sustaining.

It's sort of surprising that nonsingers like Lauren Bacall didn't miss.

Styne refused to allow the show to be licensed to anyone who wanted to interpolate My Man and left instructions for his estate to do the same. He didn't have the same amount of control over the film. I don't know what the current situation is. I know that for years Herman wouldn't allow the Merman songs to be used in Dolly but I think you can license them now.

I keep getting my subscription notices for new seasons of theatres I have supported for years, and I am the bad guy and enemy in more than half of the plays......I'll pass. Thanks.

I hope Julie Benko has better luck than Lisa Shane who should have had a much bigger career.

Well, "Lisa" married the director of "The Italian Job," so she did alright. Her sons were active in the UK music scene in the 1990s.

Did Styne or Merrill have children? I don't think so. In any case, I think their estates are now run by lawyers or relatives who really just want as much money as can be made.

Maybe so, r181, but they're still stuck with the stipulations the composers imposed.

What was Holliday's attendance record, r170.

Talking about June Styne, I'm reminded of a funny story my ex shared with me many years ago. I wrote about it in the old SUMMER STOCK MEMORIES thread:

Gary worked as an assistant to Jule Styne, the composer of many great Broadway scores. My favorite Gary/Jule Styne story involved a phone call to Irving Berlin. This would have been around 1973 or 74. Gary thought that Mr. Berlin was deceased, and so when Jule asked him to call Irving, Gary thought that it was a joke. "Just check the rolodex!" was Jule's answer. Indeed, it was no joke, and in a few minutes, Mr. Berlin himself answered the phone. He was extremely hard of hearing at that time, and so the conversation that ensued was a lot of Jule yelling and repeating himself and Irving yelling back. Just two old pros schmoozing. Gary loved to imitate Mr. Berlin’s Russian/Yiddish accent and recreate that phone call in a routine I used to call “HELLO, OIVING?”

That's Jule, not June. Curses autocorrect.

[r185] I’m NOT June!!

Has Jule Styne's This Is Your Life episode ever shown up on YouTube?

Well, if there are stipulations, r182, then how is that hack Michael Mayer allowed to slice and dice through Jule and Bob's FG score? Last time I looked neither gent wrote 2nd Hand Rose.

R173, Mary and Robert did not do matinees of “I Do! I Do!”

R175, I’m not talking about missed performances. I’m talking about the actress going into the show with the stipulation that they would only do 6 shows per week.

ONLY 6 six a week?? WTF? That's 5 too many!

Yes, I know, R189, that's why I specified that show.

Carol Lawrence and Gordon MacRae did the matinees of I Do! I Do!

I wonder why Carol didn't perform with Robert Goulet and Gordon with Sheila MacRae?

Mary Martin had it stipulated in her contracts that she would get a new dress to wear at the stage door when greeting fans.

I wonder if for I Do I Do she only got half a dress?

Only Janet Gaynor got to see Mary Martin in half a dress.

🎭 He's co-starring in [italic] Annie Get Your Gun

Sez you, r195!

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1927, "Burlesque" opened at the Plymouth Theatre,

Actually Alec Baldwin would be a perfect Shannon

I thought they had cut the part of Shannon from early drafts of Finian's Rainbow

And then restored the part in Night of the Iguana

Three film versions, r198!

DOLLY will keep us together....

Toni needs a better wig.

R184 I love you, Billy Boy.

"I wonder if The Children's Hour could ever be produced on Broadway again, what with Hellman's and all the other various denials of it being about lesbianism? Would gays be in an uproar? I would, anyway."

Of course you would, since you wouldn't know a metaphor if you fell over it.

'Nobody wants to see Night of the Iguana. What a snooze.'

Sez you. It's only one of Williams' greatest and most compassionate plays.

r115: one of the few rare intelligent voices on this woebegone subject.

If they add "Let The Music Play" or "Give Me Tonight" to Finian's, I will riot!

Will Alec be booed at each curtain call?

Some off broadway theatre company or Roundabout should do a limited run of Children’s Hour and cast Cynthia Nixon as the grandmother Mrs Tilford.

Stadlen is good but a 75-year-old Willy Loman?

Lee J. Cobb was 38 when he did it

Well, it certainly makes his death less of surprise.

I wonder how much he aged touring in [italic] Dolly [/italic] with Betty

Lee J. Cobb would have been a superstar if he was born post-WW2. Completely underrated during his lifetime. Being 38 when he first did Willy is not so far-fetched, especially when he started off playing characters 2 and 3 times his age. Guess his early baldness had something to do with that.

[quote]I wonder if for I Do I Do she only got half a dress?

Robert Preston got the other half.

I didn't even finish the first sentence of Maya Phililps' Times article on Black actors, never mind the rest of the article: "One of the most exciting parts of the 2021-22 Broadway season was the number of people who looked like me..."

As we've said here many times, It's Show BUSINESS, not Show Representation. Bonus points if someone can do both.

[quote]"One of the most exciting parts of the 2021-22 Broadway season was the number of people who looked like me..."

She looks like Jaquel Spivey in "A Strange Loop"?

"....people who look like me." Also known as narcissism.

Hardly.

Well and what people always fail to recognize too is that, like it or not, white people still make up the majority. 76% of the US is White, followed by 13.6% Black, 18% Latino, 6% Asian. If you apply these percentages to ANY given industry, let alone show business, you'd find that there's actually VERY equitable representation in 2022. Progress IS being made.

Which is a great thing! Equality of opportunity is vital to opening up these channels to those wishing to pursue them. But it's ridiculous when you have woke-y academic types trying to drive home some reckless narrative that "we need to do better" and that the theatre has been systemically racist. That's not remotely taking into account that certain groups culturally are less interested in show business (acting/directing/writing/dancing) than other groups. This isn't a racist statement. This comes down to ingrained cultural norms and value systems. Which isn't to say these things can't morph in time, but the statistics are all there and tell the tale.

Can the argument be made that fewer opportunities in theatre/TV/film for people of color have driven such recurring outcomes? Certainly. And god knows, not EVERY white person wants to be in show biz. That's not the argument either. But when you look at those population percentages -- even if the same percentage of white people, black people and asian people wanted to be IN show biz, you're pulling from wildly different numbers of people. Of course there are going to be more white performers/playwrights/creatives than other groups. It's NOT inherently racist. It's legitimately just the way the population demographics break down at present. It's basic math! Not some thinly veiled supremacy at work.

JULIE BENKO! JULIE BENKO!

I wonder if producers hope to make Benko the replacement for Lea Michele?

Further to that NY article, this op-ed was published in The Guardian today, about the writer's experience at the Edinburgh fringe.

While I sympathise with her experience, I also want to say to her: isn't it also incumbent on Brown and Black audiences to make the effort to turn up? It's not entirely the fault of the artists, companies, or the festival that the audience isn't diverse. I say this as a working-class fag who in my pretentious pre-internet teen years sought out things that were not from the cultural milieu in which I was raised. I watched films, listened to music, read novels, went to watch opera: things that were completely alien to my background. I'm sure my parents thought I was an insufferable snob, and still do.

If the lack of diversity in audience is considered to be problematic, then maybe those who are absent should take some of the responsibility for that too.

Forgot the link...

I remember seeing a black female one woman show at the Edinburgh Fringe and when she asked for a show of hands if people could tell someone was black by their voice, I raised my hand. She was not pleased...

R224 -- I think you make an equally fair point. Where are the audiences? And have we become so regressively racist that all we can see IS color now? It's become less about the art, the performer, the story and all about counting heads. This is a horrible way to approach life, let alone art. But WHO is showing up for these things does matter. And does tell the tale.

[quote] If the lack of diversity in audience is considered to be problematic, then maybe those who are absent should take some of the responsibility for that too.

Yes, let's blame the minorities for not showing up to an artform that doesn't reflect their cultures.

And they don’t want to be the only ones there because of the way you look at them

[quote]And have we become so regressively racist that all we can see IS color now?

You're on a site where people complaining that seeing a black person in a show takes them out of it receives barely any push back. Where casting a black person in a role is compared to casting a pensioner as a teenager.

Hell, a site which now defends theatre being shit, as long as it makes money and draws an audience.

"It's Show BUSINESS, not Show Representation"

Not only that. The whole POINT of art is to enter the consciousness of another individual or being who is different from you, who shows you a different POV from your own, not just a narcissistic reflection of yourself.

"Yes, let's blame the minorities for not showing up to an artform that doesn't reflect their cultures."

Oh, my sides! "Representation" has been a norm across all the arts for decades, so spare me the breast-beating, ye victims.

"isn't it also incumbent on Brown and Black audiences to make the effort to turn up?"

Of course it is. It reminds me of an idiotic comment someone wrote in response to a Times review complaining "why there weren't more black people in the audience." Well, I dunno. Why weren't there any Martians in attendance? Because they didn't come!

"with new and original songs written by Sam Hollander, Lisa Loeb, Matisyahu, Ryan Miller and Jill Sobule."

Oh, those thrilling musical theatre writers! (Who???)

I don't think representation has really been the norm. The black best friend (who only exists to advise the lead) is still a trope.

If you want a minority audience, you have to have minorities in the plays. PERIOD.

As the minority is quickly becoming the majority, the artform is suffer if they were never a part of it---If you doubt it, look at the quickly disappearing opera and symphony arts.

Most shows aren't about Jewish mothers and Gays...

Casting now uses the term "Member of the Global Majority" (see: not-white) when looking for POC. Because there's nothing like showing you want to stamp out the idea of racial supremacy by creating your own supremacist term.

r231 this is for you:

You can format posts as follows:

Separate paragraphs by pressing return twice.

[quote]A quote from another poster or an offsite article. Will be in the quote style until you press return twice

For inline text you can mark a word or phrase as:

[bold]This text will be in bold[/bold] but this will be normal text.

[italic]This text will be italics[/italic] but this will be normal.

Please make sure to close the tags properly.

You're encouraging Italics? Here go hell come.

𝘔𝘺 𝘯𝘢𝘮𝘦 𝘪𝘴...

Did you turn it off?

The Funny Girl marketers only know the line Hello Gorgeous. They use it for every single ad and post . They should listen to songs for more ideas

Well, they know the can't promote any of their leading ladies as the Greatest Star...

But she's not so gorgeous....

And neither was the last one.

Perhaps you can step in r242?

OTOH if POCs don't want to come to the theater even when the plays are about them, I think that's just fine. Maybe they're not engaged by what they see as the mediocre art of theater. I'll tell you, I wouldn't attend a baseball or football game even if all the players were hot and gay. I simply don't care about the game, no matter what.

I would attend it to ogle the players, but I see your point, R244.

*3* GIRLS *3*

Didn't Madeline Kahn ever play Fanny Brice in the regions?

[quote]OTOH if POCs don't want to come to the theater even when the plays are about them, I think that's just fine

Then the theater should stop catering to them.

Well, I think when enough investors lose enough of their money that's exactly what will happen, r248. And I think this is just a phase we're going through. More Black plays will be produced in the future but not the large and somewhat indiscriminate choices we're seeing now, at least in the commercial Broadway theatre.

Yes, r247, and she got *rave reviews*! Anyway, how fun to see Helen in a Hazel Flagg number...

Madeline Kahn did HELLO, DOLLY! but I don't think she ever did FUNNY GIRL.

Damn. Helen's "madcap" posturing gets old quickly in that clip.

Julie Benko really hit the jackpot. She’s just a fine singer and a fine performer. She’s not Shirley MacLaine 2.0 BUT because Beanie was a shitshow and everyone hates queen of Cunts, Lea Michele…that leaves exciting as yesterday’s soup, Julie Benko, coming up a Rose.

She still dances up a storm, r252...

She's seems to be performing it for the last row of the Hellinger. Still, a 1953 flop looks better than most shows we get now. You have a decent tune, very good Robert Alton choreography, snazzy Don Walker orchestrations and those singular Hugh Martin vocal arrangements. I'll take it.

[quote]Well, I think when enough investors lose enough of their money that's exactly what will happen, [R248].

Then they, and the whole industry, will once again be accused of racism by Jada and her ilk, along with white, female college students from eastern liberals arts colleges and their professors who began wokeism.

I like baseball but the only show I would see about it was Damn Yankees (good production) because it was damn good. If POC don't see works about POCs it's because they're not good either (mostly bores) and like my friend would be more interested in seeing The Cher Show. Smart!

Why is it that opera can cast Black women to star with audiences just as white as those on Broadway with no push back from opera lovers? My guess it that those who love opera want to hear the best voices sing the operas they love, they will suspend their disbelief in order to enjoy a great performance.

Broadway lovers in capable of suspension of disbelief are luddites.

Most Bway audiences are just fine with color-blind casting, R258. It's the handful of racist dinosaurs on threads like this that have chosen not to live in the real world.

It depends on the material

Except for John Simon, I never heard anyone express dissatisfaction with color-blind casting on Broadway.

[quote]Why is it that opera can cast Black women to star with audiences just as white as those on Broadway with no push back from opera lovers?

Opera is on a different plane than theater. Opera is on a very grand scale and it's more of an event than theater. Black women can be exotic in opera.

[quote]He's clearly pandering to the wokiest of woke. Which unfortunately, NY theatre is chock a block full of. They may think their progressive liberals, but they're anything BUT.

Agreed! What they are are artistic fascists!

If it weren't for liberal whiteys and non-profit institutions supporting their every scribble, would certain playwrights and creators ever get produced? August Wilson? Yes. Suzan Lori-Parks? No. I like both, but come on!

I'd love to see the breakdown of just exactly who is buying tickets to A Strange Loop. Something tells me it's the same mostly white theatergoers who see most other plays.

"If you doubt it, look at the quickly disappearing opera and symphony arts."

Your reasoning is nonsensical, but no matter. The opera and the symphony ain't goin' anywhere anytime soon.

"[R231] this is for you: You can format posts as follows:"

You salt your beets, r236, and I'll salt mine.

Martin Short as Mme Armfeldt

R261 Meet August Wilson.

But hes right

Helen's singing could have a strident quality. It worked for her in Pal Joey and Nanette, but she's a Nikki, not a Charity.

That bob wasn't terrible flattering. A holdover from MAME?

Helen was never a star.

She was the star of Ryan's Hope.

Pirouettin' Helen.

The person on this thread suggesting non-white audiences NOT showing up has *everything* to do with the content/representation found in the works being produced is supremely naive. This is NOT the fundamental thing that drives people out to entertainment -- be it theatre, film or concerts. The play is the thing. The star is the thing. The 'event' or 'spectacle' is the thing. Your argument is too academic. It may factor in for some, but that's fundamentally not what puts bums in seats.

For instance, how much of the NY theatre audience are GAY men? A sizable portion I would imagine. And yet, how many expressly GAY plays/musicals are represented on stage each season? Each decade? A beautifully designed, directed and sung revival like "South Pacific" is as straight, white and vanilla as it gets. And yet, it was a coterie of gay men in that audience, raving about it at intermission. Straight people, Black people, Latinos and Asians too.

Being able to see a version of yourself/your culture/your life experience in a production is a lovely thing. And we often do in works -- even in abstract. But it's really not a prerequisite for getting specific groups out to a play. It's such a naive assertion to think seeing one's intersectionality on stage drives ticket sales. And this isn't to say there couldn't be MORE Gay/Black/Female/Trans plays/musicals being produced/represented...no one is debating the merits of that. But that's hardly all it comes down to, business wise. Representation on stage is but one of a dozen other key things that gets bums in seats. Great writing, great production design, great scores, great actors, great stories...hell, great PR on a SHITTY show, makes the difference!

Gays aren't whining about lack of representation then don't show up when there is a show that represents their life.

"Follies" represents my life.

[Quote] A beautifully designed, directed and sung revival like "South Pacific" is as straight… as it gets

She said, as she wash that man right out of her hair

Don't forget being a cock-eyed optimist, r276.

I don’t think gay men make up a particularly sizable portion of theatre audiences. While we are a group that goes a lot, there just aren’t enough gays to be a critical mass.

Go to a show and see for yourself—yes, there are gays in the audience but the vast majority is straight

[quote]"Follies" represents my life.

"Moose Murders" represents mine.

I don't think most Black audiences are any more interested in the New Woke Theater than white audiences. People don't like being preached at. What people like, of all colors, is to be entertained.

And, frankly, I think most color blind casting is pandering. Unless it's a huge star in a role, I don't think most black audiences give a shit that J'anet No Name Actress is playing a traditionally white cast role in yet another version of Hamlet or The Music Man or Death of a Salesman or some Jane Austen shit. They'd rather either see Black actors in interesting black roles and black stories. Unless it's a major Black star, then all bets are off.

Who wouldn't want to see Oprah play Mama Rose?

I mean, it would be a train wreck but who does't enjoy a huge star in a train wreck?

[quote]Who wouldn't want to see Oprah play Mama Rose?

Considering that she's a non-singer, I certainly wouldn't want to see her in it. Watching a "train wreck" is not how I want to spend an evening in the theater.

You get a turn! You get a turn! Everybody gets a turn!

Of course it's pandering, but that's the solution every time that liberals want to feel better about themselves.

OOOh, what traditional white role can we sandwich in a black actor? How about Anne Frank? Yeah, that's a good one; how progressive we are. Let's see them try to top that one. I know the critics are going to hail us for our boldness and courage. Tonys are assured.

All it has to be is good.

What I wouldn’t have paid to see Dee from What’s Happening! play Anne Frank.

Listening to all the pitiful objections to Jesse Green's article is proof once again of how far up their asses white people safely keep their heads. The refusal to believe that there could ever possibly be systemic racism shows just how far in denial one can be when white. How whiteness gives you the luxury obliviousness. Never mind that black people have lived systemic racism for 400 years. It has impacted, restricted and undermined literally every aspect of their existence in America and that is a FACT. White people still refuse to believe in systemic racism for one reason: white people ARE the system and they can never accept ANYTHING negative about themselves. They'll believe anything about black people that isn't nice without any proof at all, but they won't accept anything unflattering about themselves regardless of the mountain of historical evidence that confirms it. It's collective racist sociopathy. No moral conscience whatsoever.

Thank you r287.

Famous urban legend: Pia Zadora played Anne Frank when she was a teenager and when the Nazis burst in, the audience started shouting "She's upstairs! She's upstairs!"

It looks like there are 2-3 decrepit racists prattling back and forth on this thread. Talk about an echo chamber.

My usual solution is to ignore them, but they've really subverted this thread at the expense of all other topics.

Might be time for F&F. Or some Webbie intervention.

In other news, Timothee has become a showqueen meme....

[quote] then don't show up when there is a show that represents their life.

Well maybe that's because the shows put on don't actually represent their life. Here's a shocker, but just because it's written by a black person doesn't mean it's going to represent all black people.

Just like Boys In The Band bears no resemblance to The Data Lounge...

Some of the characters in BitB were likeable

The ignore button reveals that it’s pretty much one troll doing all the racist posts.

And he apparently likes to expose himself to delivery men.

Black delivery men?

He didn’t specify

Maybe theatre would see bigger and more diverse audiences if the marketing and advertising people weren’t so stuck in 1987. Setting up a discount code for an “urban radio station” is not audience cultivation, it’s just lazy.

Bway would also need to be cheaper to attract a minority audience . Bway producers aren’t willing to go there. Every now and then they do the “tickets for Bronx students” stuff but building a new audience takes time, years

[quote]Bway would also need to be cheaper to attract a minority audience

Absolutely. This is why you never see black people at sporting events and pop concerts.

A black person playing a "white" role is a brave step forward. A white person playing a "black" role is the greatest sin of our day. Got it?

The racist troll made up eleven different “true” stories for the accidental nudity thread.

He is a prolific liar.

R301, sporting events have already built that audience so they will pay if they want to go.

Someone who has never been to a show is plucking down $500 just to see what’s all about,

Could Martha and George be black?

"Never mind that black people have lived systemic racism for 400 years. It has impacted, restricted and undermined literally every aspect of their existence in America and that is a FACT."

But we're talking about the arts. And particularly in theater, the most diverse and inclusive of them all, it most emphatically has NOT. Whether you're an actor, writer, director, designer, etc everyone faces the same obstacles in a very competitive field with limited opportunities, regardless of color, gender, etc. If there's anything systemic about the business, it's rejection. Welcome to the club.

This thread needs some entertainment value...

r306 You're actually denying the presence of any kind of systemic racism within theatre? Seriously?

R305, yes, Albee was fine with a black Martha and George. He even made edits to the play when an all-black cast did it at Howard University.

With the exception of one combination, he was fine with the roles being played by actors of any race. The exception was a white George and Martha with a black Nick, because then the way they treat him becomes about racism, which wasn't the intention.

Of course there was that kerfuffle a few years ago when the Albee estate pulled the rights to a version where Nick had been cast with a black actor opposite a white George (because the director specifically said he wanted to explore the racist implications, exactly what Albee didn't want). And plenty of commenters screeched about the Albee estate bring small-minded and racist for objecting to the casting. Of course, if the production was so determined to keep the black actor as Nick, the solution would be to recast the white George with a black actor. Except that would prevent the director from doing exactly what Albee didn't want.

TLDR, I know. Could have just posted this.

Intention is EVERYTHING.

OH God forgive me I miss Beanie and Follies

From FB Broadway Remembered...

It's Kitty's birthday!

[quote]Famous urban legend: Pia Zadora played Anne Frank when she was a teenager and when the Nazis burst in, the audience started shouting "She's upstairs! She's upstairs!"

Wow, no one's ever told that story on DL before. Usually the punch line is "She's in the attic."

And it’s gone from one person saying it to “the audience shouting “

There is nothing wrong with minority actors into traditionally white roles, particularly when race is not a factor in the play.

Why is this controversial at all?

Gideon Glick has a Broadway themed cookbook out called Give My Swiss Chards to Broadway. That's just so shit a title it's not even a pun

Remember that title when Thread #490 comes up: "Give My Swiss Chards to Broadway!"

[quote]it's not even a pun

At least it scans!

What are Swiss Chards?

[quote]At least it scans!

Unlike so many bad song parodies on DL.

Miss Uggams?

"What are Swiss Chards?"

Neutral white wines.

Wow, they'll publish anything these days.

If Beanie played Sally in a colorblind production of Follies, and didn’t wear green, or if she played Sally in a color,blind production of Cabaret, because, you know, Sally isn’t supposed to be a good singer, and if it was marketed properly to Black audiences, would they still show up late and talk during the performance?

R316 Again, let August Wilson explain it for you.

Black & Blue

R327, thanks for posting! Brought back memories of the trip to NYC during college

I’m very much looking forward to the upcoming “Death of a Salesman,” not because it’s “black,” but because Wendell Pierce and Sharon D. Clarke are fine actors and Miller’s play is one of the greatest this country has ever produced. Without casting that allows for the Lomans to be played by non-white actors, we might miss something wonderful.

But it's not really color blind casting if they're both black, r329.

They auditioned via voicemail.

Would a black man have been able to have a career as a traveling salesmen in the 1940s?

I'm sure someone has moved the goalposts on that "minor" detail.

[quote]I’m very much looking forward to the upcoming “Death of a Salesman,” not because it’s “black,” but because Wendell Pierce and Sharon D. Clarke are fine actors and Miller’s play is one of the greatest this country has ever produced. Without casting that allows for the Lomans to be played by non-white actors, we might miss something wonderful.

What did you think of the Schenectady Players production starring Bobbi Adler as Milly Loman?

[quote] Would a black man have been able to have a career as a traveling salesmen in the 1940s?

It’s not a documentary. It’s a play.

[quote] Would a black man have been able to have a career as a traveling salesmen in the 1940s?

Absolutely but only in black communities and neighborhoods.

Let's not forget that Albee wouldn't allow an all-male cast of '...Virginia Woolf' either.

[quote]Would a black man have been able to have a career as a traveling salesmen in the 1940s?

The possibility was there. Madame C.J. Walker became a millionaire selling her hair care products. Does the play specify what Willy Loman sells?

Are you white R306? Yes you are. You know nothing about racism against black people in the arts. You do not know their experience. Period.

Now sit down and shut the fuck up.

r339’ypu’re trash

R339 is that how you discuss something???

R339 = Singapore/Fling has entered the chat.

[quote]The only color these producers care about is the GREEN.

R104, your whole post was spot on, but really, this one sentence says it all. And while the simple fact that the bottom line is the bottom line doesn't completely negate everything Jesse Green wrote about racism in his article, it comes pretty close.

Theaters do need money to pay these bipoc artists and do the outreach they need to do. Yup can’t just say Money is bad

You can’t not yup can’t.

[quote]“I went to ‘Glee’ every single day; I knew my lines every single day,” she said. “And then there’s a rumor online that I can’t read or write? It’s sad. It really is. I think often if I were a man, a lot of this wouldn’t be the case.”

How typical of Lea Michele to come out with that ridiculous, tired old cliche. No, Lea, people hate you because you have behaved like a horrible person, and that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with your gender. The only difference is that, if you were a man who behaved the same way, people would call you a bastard or a scumbag instead of a bitch.

P.S. That NY Times article was very poorly written. It's shocking how far the standards of that publication have fallen -- like, into the sub-basement.

[quote]The movie did it first, adding actual Fanny Brice numbers to the Styne-Merrill score, including replacing "That Makes Me Dance" with the Brice signature song that inspired it, "My Man."

NO! REALLY!!!! I'm sure NO ONE reading this thread was aware of that, so THANK YOU SO MUCH for sharing your inside knowledge with us!!!!!!!

[quote]Will the Times, Post, etc. review Lea (and Tovah)? The Times reviewed Reba when she stepped into AGYG.

Damn, but the level of idiocy and cluelessness in some of these posts is stupefying.

The rumor that Lea Michele can't read or write was probably someone being sarcastic and she interpreted it as being literal.

Did you know that Barbara Streisand lost the Tony to Margo Channing?

Its going to be a bumpy night

[quote]You're on a site where people complaining that seeing a black person in a show takes them out of it receives barely any push back. Where casting a black person in a role is compared to casting a pensioner as a teenager.

Casting a black actor as a character who would never be black according to the plot, setting and time period of the play is very much equivalent to casting a "pensioner" as a teenager, or a 5'1" actor in the role of a basketball player, or a morbidly obese actress as a sex symbol movie star. The actors simply don't fit the parts in all of these cases, though for different reasons.

[quote]Hell, a site which now defends theatre being shit, as long as it makes money and draws an audience.

Nobody wrote anything remotely like that here, and fortunately, most of us are too smart to fall for your stupid straw man argument.

What if Olivia Colman did a well-directed production of The Time of the Cuckoo?

Here's something strange. Can anyone explain this credit?

In the 1992 revival of The Most Happy Fella, the director credit reads, "Entire production directed by Gerald Gutierrez".

Was there any doubt? Was Gutierrez a big drama queen?

[Quote] equivalent to casting a "pensioner" as a teenager, or a 5'1" actor in the role of a basketball player, or a morbidly obese actress as a sex symbol movie star. The actors simply don't fit the parts in all of these cases, though for different reasons.

Or casting Mary Martin in The Sound of Music...

[quote]NO! REALLY!!!! I'm sure NO ONE reading this thread was aware of that, so THANK YOU SO MUCH for sharing your inside knowledge with us!!!!!!!

As opposed to your contribution, in which you share the knowledge that you're an insufferable asshole with nothing worthwhile to say.

Step away from the mirror, R355.

[quote]In the 1992 revival of The Most Happy Fella, the director credit reads, "Entire production directed by Gerald Gutierrez". Was there any doubt? Was Gutierrez a big drama queen?

I believe Jerome Robbins also used that egocentric billing, at least sometimes. But of course, Gerald Gutierrez was no Jerome Robbins.

[Quote] Did you know that Barbara Streisand lost the Tony

Oh dear

I absolutely LOVE the idea of Olivia Colman in Time of the Cuckoo! I hope some wealthy adventurous producer is onto that.

This thread is less anti-Brit than usual.

R351 Ian McKellen just played Hamlet at the Edinburgh Festival.

"Follies" has such resonance because in a way it can be thought of as high school reunions, college reunions, sorority or fraternity reunions, whatever. You don't have to have been a Broadway showgirl or stagedoor johnny to get what Phyllis and Sally and Buddy and Ben and the others and what the undertones and situations they face. But they do it to a Sondheim score and, if we are really lucky, with an excellent cast and staging -- but the casting and productions tend to not measure up. Same as what many times happens at reunions as well...

R286 Dee from "What's Happening" would have stabbed the Nazi muthafuckers after she gave them some glorious well-delivered lip.

Shirley Hemphill IS Mame!

R287 I'm second generation American and I won't be bullied into white guilt or having to pay for reparations. My grandparents came here to escape pogroms in Eastern Europe and other forms of harassment. If one can go back thousands of years, since you want to go back hundreds of years for American slavery, then my ancestors were slaves back then too. Do I want reparations? No. It was a different time. Also besides Jews, Irish and Italians were also discriminated against when they came to this country and passed through Ellis Island. If you have a beef with some people, perhaps aim your wrath at the Daughters of the American Revolution and descendents of the Mayflowers. As for many Jews, Italian, Irish and other ethnic groups, we didn't enslave anyone.

Uh, no living American enslaved anyone. And BTW, speaking of green being the only color that counts, " Follies" was a flop.

R366 I think some women are sex slaves in America, in the sex trade.

Olivia Colman already played the Time of the Cuckoo role in Lost Daughter. Well, sorta kinda.

Olivia Coleman for the Stage version of The Sterile Cuckoo.

Shirley Hemphill actually attended a class taught by Lucille Ball.

r369 You've been warned.

[quote] Ian McKellen just played Hamlet at the Edinburgh Festival.

McKellen is a Gertrude.

Is McKellan still good with lines?

[quote]Famous urban legend: Pia Zadora played Anne Frank when she was a teenager and when the Nazis burst in, the audience started shouting "She's upstairs! She's upstairs!"

R289, that story was part of Bea Arthur's one-woman show, [italic]Bea Arthur on Broadway: Just Between Friends[/italic]. It's at the end of the clip below.

"Or casting Mary Martin in The Sound of Music..."

But once again you're talking star power and above-the-title-marquee-value-box-office clout.

Did she borrow it from The Golden Girls, or was it something she'd said often enough that the TGG writers borrowed it from her? Dorothy told the same story in "The Actor" when describing Phyllis Hammerow's performance in The Diary of Anne Frank. :56 below

Notice how people always get upset whenever it's black people doing something they don't like. There's some ugly racists in this thread.

What I find so tiresome are posters who parrot cliched buzz words without even knowing what they mean.

Is Broadway abuzz over Lea's debut in Funny Girl on Tuesday?

Is Michael Ball gay at all? He’s so hot in this. He initially shared screen with Harvey if you don’t know who he is. He was original Marius in Les Miz.

[quote]Is Michael Ball gay at all?

Are you posting from 1990? He's gay but not out.

He looks extremely gay in the video.

No one who has ever played Marius is not gay.

Kevin Kern has played Marius on Broadway and is married to Megan Lawrence and is very straight.

Snopes debunks the "She's in the attic!" story.

But what about the “She's upstairs! She's upstairs!" story?

"She's in the Attic" is a great story, but how anyone could think it actually happened is beyond me. (though I did think Pia actually played Anne Frank, which it turns out she didn't.)

f memory serves, that Anne Frank story was told WAY before Pia Zadora came along.

Is Michael Ball gay?? Lol. Are you serious?

I would be happy to attend an "Anne Frank" where the audience participated, Rocky Horror-style.

Not sure if it’s true or not but Michael Ball was allegedly involved with Prince Edward who was working with Cameron Mackintosh at the time. The gay prince would slip into the country to spend weekends with Ball who was starring in Aspects of Love on bway at the time.

Michael Ball looks hot? LOL. Are you serious?

You know his nickname is "Ballsy", right? For 30 years, he's been known to insiders as "Ballsy"...

I must be dense but what does a nickname like Ballsy mean?

[quote]or a morbidly obese actress as a sex symbol movie star

You rang?

It was rumored that Papi Raul used to walk around the Taboo set in his underwear. I'm sure Boy George and Charles Busch were pleased but I bet Rosie O'Donnell was collecting signatures for a class action suit.

R396, in general actors are not allowed to just "walk around the set." You need to clear it with the SM.

A lot happens on stage after 6:00 as they set up for that nights show. If Raul did talk to the SM to set up underwear walking time, it probably would have to be scheduled during the day when no one was around.

[quote]Casting a black actor as a character who would never be black according to the plot, setting and time period of the play is very much equivalent to casting a "pensioner" as a teenager, or a 5'1" actor in the role of a basketball player, or a morbidly obese actress as a sex symbol movie star. The actors simply don't fit the parts in all of these cases, though for different reasons.

No, it's actually completely different. You're not watching a documentary, it's a play or musical. If you can somehow accept all the other theatrical conventions of a production, but the one thing that pulls you out a story is a black person cast, yeah, you're a racist.

[quote]Nobody wrote anything remotely like that here, and fortunately, most of us are too smart to fall for your stupid straw man argument.

Right there in r105. Not to mention your idiotic assertion in that r343 that profit being the motive somehow means racism in theatre can't exist.

Also, given everything you just typed in your post, don't ever think of yourself as smart again. You've just admitted to being so intellectually shallow that seeing a black person in a role breaks your brain. You are an idiot.

R398 in addition to being a bad conversationalist (“you’re in idiot!”) you’re oversimplifying. Are we supposed to IGNORE race or acknowledge it? Would Arthur Miller not have acknowledged Willy’s family race at all in this story? Either it’s making a point or it isn’t. But that’s probably too nuanced a point for you because you’re an idiot. Don’t ever think of yourself as smart again.

People in this thread don't seem to know the difference between non-traditional casting and color-blind casting.

Actually, Miller probably would not have acknowledged the family's race any more than he acknowledged their Judaism. Miller (like many playwrights of the time) took it as a mark of seriousness to remove markers of non-wasp ethnicity from their characters.

And yes, you are supposed to acknowledge race. That is why "color-blind" casting was coined as a pejorative. The idea of color-conscious, or untraditional casting makes too much sense. (Without it, non-white actors would be largely cut out of significant roles in most western plays written before the late 20th century.) So they make up "color-blind" to be a straw man argument.

You write as if all ethnicities are somehow seen the same in our culture. But white is the dominant culture. It is seen as universal. So for most works, one can cast an actor of any ethnicity in those roles without disturbing the fabric of the play. It would be great if everyone was seen the same way. But they are not. Just like it is unfair that typo-O is the universal donor but type-AB can only give to others of the same type, it is the same way in casting. You cannot pretend that O is not universal or that AB is.

Or an example closer to home. Men dressed as women usually reads as comic. Women dressed as men does not--in fact it is often seen as sexy. Again, you cannot just ignore the culture we are in if you are creating work. Brad Pitt in a dress is funny. Angelina Jolie in a tux is hot.

Black actors in traditionally white roles opens equitable employment and in most cases does not disrupt the play. White actors in black roles is not needed for employment equity and usually does disrupt the play.

[quote]Casting a black actor as a character who would never be black according to the plot, setting and time period of the play is very much equivalent to casting a "pensioner" as a teenager, or a 5'1" actor in the role of a basketball player, or a morbidly obese actress as a sex symbol movie star. The actors simply don't fit the parts in all of these cases, though for different reasons.

As pointed out before, this has happened in opera for years and opera lovers had no problem with it, quality of performance is what they are concerned with. They realize they are watching an opera set in another time, they suspend their present moment reality.

Why so impossible for Broadway?

In the miniseries NBC miniseries Nutcracker the “She’s in the attic!” joke was told by Frances Schreuder (Lee Remick) at a 1960s cocktail party but it was Sandra Dee who was the butt of the joke, not Pia Zadora.

Remember, once you cast a white character with a black actor, the role must now always be black or Cynthia Erivo will come for you

R402, In opera, the voice is/was the thing. People of the wrong age, size, or color are accepted if they have the right voice.

I opera, morbidly obese singers are also accepted as being horny teens.

r399 Maybe that's because I have no interest in having a conversation with a racist. And allow me to pre-empt your 'why are you replying then?': because people like you need to be called out and your idiocy exposed.

It's also endlessly hilarious that you accuse me of lacking nuance and over-simplifying, and then you immediately attempt to reduce 'ignore or acknowledge race' to a binary answer. Genuinely embarrassing.

^In............

Right r405 and for me I want to see a great performance especially in iconic roles. Broadway is limited to the handful of white actors that can take on those roles. Think back to discussions about Dolly or the Music Man or Company or any of the other major productions, only a few names come up to fill the prime spots and no one is really getting that excited about them filing those roles.

Broadway charges a lot for shows, they should find some mind blowing talent to make it worth the expense.

Whoever this is at 399 is insane and stupid

"White actors in black roles.."

Where?

Example?

Ever? Even tried?

Reaction?

R411, no it has not been tried for many decades. That is the point.

It is not needed and would disrupt the meaning of most plays written specifically for black performers.

Queens we must help a Diva who deserves a good swansong.

Patti Lupone just had Company and well deserved send-off Tony

Bernadette Peters just had a hero’s welcome replacing Bette in Hello Dolly as well as GLOWING reviews for A Little Night Music and a revival of Follies built around her.

Poor Betty Buckley got shit on by Arthur Laurents and was denied her Gypsy. Was denied a Grey Gardens transfer and had to settle on a broken down Tour of Dolly that didn’t even play a week on Broadway.

We must all pitch in and give Betty Buckley one last triumph on Broadway. Betty is 75 and her last Broadway gig was a flop Triumph of Love in 1998, 24 years ago!!

Cats II for Betty.

I've enjoyed Betty in the past--her glorious voice and intensity and yes, all her crazy.

But she's a 75-year-old woman who's lost most of her voice. She simply cannot perform like she once did. It would be pointless and cruel to cast her in any musical at this point.

(For the record, I love Bernadette but didn't love her in ALNM. A bit... tired. Still, she was legions better than Stritch, who shouldn't have been allowed within 10 feet of a Bway stage by that point.)

R413 Betty Buckley got lucky by stepping off a bus and within a couple of hours got into a casting call and had herself a role on Broadway in "1776". It's not like she had to wait long to pay her dues. Great voice in her prime though.

FIDDLER touring the US! The good-ish but not great Bartlett Sher revival that starred Danny Burstein a few years back, but without Danny.

Who are ANY of these people in the cast?

Betty is a wonderful dramatic actress and it would be great to see her back on broadway in a straight play. But, please God not a comedy.

Betty would be frighteningly perfect as Mrs. Venable in a revival of "Suddenly Last Summer".

It’s a pity her voice isn’t just a bit better because being a Mother Abess in Sound of Music would have been a good send off

Tevye should be black to help bring the black and Jewish communities together, since Black Shabbat didn't work.

R417, that's a non-Equity tour so you wouldn't have seen any of those people in an Equity production.

What is Aaron Tveit's next conquest?

Betty might be an interesting Mary Tyrone.

PBS will air the opera version of Lynn Nottage's INTIMATE APPAREL in a few weeks. music by Ricky Ian Gordon.

Could Betty Buckley play Madame Armfeldt in ALNM?

Betty couldn't be any worse than Elaine, at least.

R427, Or me.

I saw Betty play Big Edie in Grey Gardens a few years back. She sang well enough for that.

[quote]Bernadette Peters just had a hero’s welcome replacing Bette in Hello Dolly as well as GLOWING reviews for A Little Night Music and a revival of Follies built around her.

I did not enjoy Bernadette in "Follies." She was miscast to begin with and also made some very questionable choices. And I have liked her in other shows.

I like Bernadette a lot (thought she was quite good and looked great in ALNM), but she was playing the ending already as Sally in FOLLIES. Her director should have told her to cool it, appear more normal and perhaps a little rattled at the beginning, and then build to more anxiety along the way.

[quote]Her director should have told her to cool it, appear more normal and perhaps a little rattled at the beginning, and then build to more anxiety along the way.

Her director, Eric Schaeffer, is a hack.

Most operas are (let's face it) not as concerned with dramaturgy as the American musical theatre has been since the Rodgers and (mostly) Hammerstein revolution of integrated (no not THAT kind, although they did their bit for that as well) storytelling and psychological acuity. Also, opera is much more of a science (so to speak) than an art because if you don't hit that note in Vissi D'arte just right, they'll boo your ass off the stage at La Scala; but in musical theater, songs can be transposed, re-arranged, re-orchestrated, etc. Musical theatre is much more democratic in form. For all the arguments above that musicals require suspension of belief and that should extend to casting as well, I say...it depends. Most musicals from the mid-20th century onwards still strive for a "stylized realism." I'm all for untraditional casting in musical theatre but not if it makes hash of the script. An Asian Mrs. Anna or black Emile De Becque would be absurd, given either play's subject matter and themes.

[quote]appear more normal and perhaps a little rattled at the beginning

Not rattled, r431, manic. Listen to how Dorothy plays it. She's *excited*!

Betty Buckley in "Ma Rainey's Black Bottom." Or "The Color Purple."

[quote]You're not watching a documentary, it's a play or musical. If you can somehow accept all the other theatrical conventions of a production, but the one thing that pulls you out a story is a black person cast, yeah, you're a racist.

What are you talking about? The other examples I gave were not "documentaries." For the five-thousandth time, the fact that so many theatrical conventions do exist (people bursting into song, lights fading at the end of a scene, etc., etc.) does not, in my opinion, mean that any person can play any part. So yes, having a black actor cast in as a character who would never be black according to the plot and the social milieu of the show does pull me out of the story, and you are allowed to call me racist for that opinion ONLY if you can HONESTLY say that having a very short actor play a basketball player or a 50-year-old actor play a high school student doesn't pull you out of the story.

[quote]Not to mention your idiotic assertion in [R343] that profit being the motive somehow means racism in theatre can't exist.

Your lack of reading comprehension is shocking. My point was to agree with R105's spot-on statement: "It's a HUGE oversimplification to think that what's produced vs. what's not produced hinges on some insidious prejudice/systemic racism. Much like million dollar Hollywood blockbusters, it's about producing IP that gets as many bums in seats as possible. The only color these producers care about is the GREEN." I think there can be no argument about the truth of that statement, but of course it DOES NOT therefore imply that racism in the theatre doesn't exist at all in any form or at any level.

[quote]Also, given everything you just typed in your post, don't ever think of yourself as smart again. You've just admitted to being so intellectually shallow that seeing a black person in a role breaks your brain. You are an idiot.

I beg to differ, and I think the real problem here is that you are unable to engage in a logical, rational discussion of this important subject without immediately going to the default of crying "RACISM!!!!!"

[quote]FIDDLER touring the US! The good-ish but not great Bartlett Sher revival that starred Danny Burstein a few years back, but without Danny.

"Good-ish?" I would rather describe it as "stupid-ish" and/or "awful-ish."

[quote]but she was playing the ending already as Sally in FOLLIES.

Like me in GYPSY. Bitch stole my schtick!

[quote]Kevin Kern has played Marius on Broadway and is married to Megan Lawrence and is very straight.

Or at least he was before playing Marius.

[quote]The role that turns you gay

Or at least the post-rehearsal notes sessions do.

[quote]So yes, having a black actor cast in as a character who would never be black according to the plot and the social milieu of the show does pull me out of the story,

Yes, that's what makes you a racist. That you can overlook the rooms that have three walls and no ceilings, that you can overlook actors playing multiple roles, that you can overlook the fact they're speaking English despite it being set in another country, that you can overlook the sudden song and dance....but the one single thing you have a problem with...

[quote]and you are allowed to call me racist for that opinion ONLY if you can HONESTLY say that having a very short actor play a basketball player or a 50-year-old actor play a high school student doesn't pull you out of the story.

You're sticking to that stupid argument, eh? The reason your argument doesn't work, outside of the Stormfront forums, is that they wouldn't be suitable for the roles. Now I know you're going to jump up and down and insist black people aren't suitable for certain roles because of historical accuracy or whatever bullshit - but as you've already admitted, you're willing to overlook a lot of stuff that isn't historically accurate. Once again, the fact that the one thing that trips you up is skin colour - that's the real reason why I can call you a racist.

[quote]I beg to differ, and I think the real problem here is that you are unable to engage in a logical, rational discussion of this important subject without immediately going to the default of crying "RACISM!!!!!"

What other term to use about someone whose sole problem with someone being employed is the colour of their skin?

Singapore Fucking Fling probably is in the room. Asswipe.

R441, you are trying to speak logic and common sense on DL.

Do you know what kind of place this is?

It's not simply DL. There is a poster who pollutes this site. His obsessions and writing style is very obvious. I wish Muriel would ban his I.P.

[quote]What other term to use about someone whose sole problem with someone being employed is the colour of their skin?

I just got through writing that the "colour" of their skin is only one example of an attribute that can make an actor unsuitable for a particular role, and that other examples include age, height, and weight. Again, either your reading comprehension level seems to be near zero or, more likely, you have very selective memory when arguing with someone.

Well, you're pretty selective in what you suspend disbelief over...

This debate over nontraditional casting has gotten pointless. It's not like someone is going to suddenly concede: "Thanks! I wasn't looking at it that way!"

Thanks! I wasn't looking at it that way.

Malcolm/Boyd

[quote] Also, opera is much more of a science (so to speak) than an art

LOLOLOL 😭😭😭😭🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Did you actually just call opera more a science than an art. HAHAHHAHAHHAHAH

My god the stupidity here knows no bounds.

Follies, anyone? We haven’t talked about Follies in a while. It’s a good musical, right?

[quote]Well, you're pretty selective in what you suspend disbelief over...

Everyone is selective in what they suspend disbelief over. Some people hate musicals because they can't stand it when people start singing to each other. Some people hate action movies because so many of the physical feats that occur in them would be impossible for any human being to achieve in real life. But, on the other hand, millions of people love musicals, and millions of people love action movies, and there's even some overlap there. Anyway, I'm sure you yourself are "selective in what you suspend disbelief over," so I'll thank you not to try to paint me as a weirdo in that respect.

worst thread ever?

[quote]worst thread ever?

I would say it's on a par with all the other theater gossip threads that have devolved into pointless arguments about non--traditional and colorblind casting, which usually are filled with complaints from people talking about how seeing a black performer in, say, a musical about witches in Oz suddenly makes the story unbelievable because historically there were no black people in Oz.

[quote]filled with complaints from people talking about how seeing a black performer in, say, a musical about witches in Oz suddenly makes the story unbelievable because historically there were no black people in Oz.

Also filled with complaints *about* people talking about how seeing a black performer in, say, a musical about witches in Oz suddenly makes the story unbelievable because historically there were no black people in Oz.

[quote]...complaints from people talking about how seeing a black performer in, say, a musical about witches in Oz suddenly makes the story unbelievable because historically there were no black people in Oz.

Of course, you would pick a ridiculous example like this -- and, for the record, I have never heard or read of anyone objecting to the casting of black people in WICKED -- rather than a more pertinent example. Like, you know, actors of color as Blanche DuBois and Stanley Kowalski in STREETCAR, which is only marginally less bizarre than white actors in A RAISIN IN THE SUN would be, or an actor of color as a member of a family in which all of the other actors are Caucasian, which is just as bizarre as would be a white actor playing the son in FENCES.

Or a white actor playing Othello in blackface.

r455 You object to people complaining about racists?

Mickey Rooney was allowed to play a Chinaman in Breakfast at Tiffanys. What more do you want?

Mr. Yunioshi was Japanese.

R457 like Olivier

[quote]Mr. Yunioshi was Japanese.

Same difference.

Stop it

We all hate you

I'm complaining about you, r458. Give it a rest already.

Seriously, start your own thread to complain about black people.

If black people can play white roles, why can’t white people play black roles?

Because fuck you

Is Labor Day weekend always this slow on Broadway and the Theatre Gossip threads?

It's just another Sunday night

[quote]Mr. Yunioshi was Japanese.

Not the way Mickey Rooney played him.

[quote]Is Labor Day weekend always this slow on Broadway and the Theatre Gossip threads?

Do you mean "slow" in the sense of mentally retarded? No, not always.

[quote]Of course, you would pick a ridiculous example like this -- and, for the record, I have never heard or read of anyone objecting to the casting of black people in WICKED -- rather than a more pertinent example. Like, you know, actors of color as Blanche DuBois and Stanley Kowalski in STREETCAR

Jesus but you're dense. Look up "sarcasm" in a dictionary, if you own one.

That little red riding hood left into the woods today too. I understand some of the bigger stars doing such a short run but her?

[quote]Follies, anyone? We haven’t talked about Follies in a while.

Would Sheryl Lee Ralph be a good choice for Sally in the all-black version of " Follies"?

Loretta Devine as Sally , Sheryl Lee Ralph as Phyllis

Posting out of sincere fascination: did Patti LuPone lipsynch A New Argentina's high notes on the Tony Awards performance of Evita? Initially I didn't think so, but now I'm not sure....

It's at 2:42, with the line "there is only one man who could lead any worker's regime." Her mouth closes before the very end of "regime". And of course her "he supports you/for he loves you.." is perfection. But perhaps because it's prerecorded? No shade to Patti if she did lip it...just trying to see if that's what happened.

I'm just not sure they had the tech for this back then. Could just those high sections be lipped, and the rest not? With a live orchestra playing on live TV, who would have to not fall out of time with whatever was playing over the speakers for the singers to synch with?

Seems as risky as live singing to me...

Sheryl Lee fancies herself a Carlotta.

For absolutely no reason...

Did Patti lipsynch this on the Tony's? Honestly wondering.

Check out 2:42 where she closes her mouth before finishing the word "regime".

I love her and get why they might want to play it safe with those crazy high notes, but didn't think they could technically pull it off in the 80s, what with the live orchestra also playing...

Vickie Lynn is no Vicki Lester.

But Vickie really sells it, r481!

R477, the whole number was lip synched. That was how they did the Tonys back then.

...only back then? Now it's always live?

[quote]Jesus but you're dense. Look up "sarcasm" in a dictionary, if you own one.

Whether or not you were being sarcastic, the point is that the example you chose to make fun of was a silly and ridiculous one that never really happened, rather than a pertinent and serious one that did happen.

Did anyone see Rebecca in Europe? Apparently it was very popular....but on Theatre Talk, that PBS show with Michael Riedel and Susan Haskins, the NY critics were dismissing it outright the season it was supposed to open on Broadway, before the whole scandal with the backers even began....

Musically, is the score akin to a Jekyll and Hyde? Cheesy and all over the place? I've only heard the title song and I like it...but maybe this was a hokey score that only Europeans could buy. Curious to hear if any of you think - had the scandal not happened - it would have found success on Broadway and with American sensibilities.

Jenifer Lewis is Carlotta

r433 what are you arguing exactly? My point is that opera lovers care about performance above all. They suspend disbelief because the people on stage bring an undeniable great performance.

Are you arguing that a Broadway audience would not be thrilled by a great performance? Great skill in acting and song interpretation? They'd rather have a white familiar face who can't quite execute but makes them feel all warm and fuzzy inside because they ONCE were great??

When I spend my money I want to see greatness, I want to be awed even if it's just a regular ole Broadway stage and not the grand opera.

David Merrick was ahead of his time with his all black version of Hello, Dolly!.

[quote]Whether or not you were being sarcastic, the point is that the example you chose to make fun of was a silly and ridiculous one that never really happened, rather than a pertinent and serious one that did happen.

So then you actually don't know what "sarcasm" means. What a surprise. Here's a hint: Sarcasm in this case means I was making fun of your ridiculous assertions.

Since Carol Channing was part Black, Pearl Bailey wasn't much of a stretch.

Incidentally, WHET Savion Glover? He was going to be the next big thing, both as performer and choreographer and looking at his resume, it's almost showing how limited it is and how sparse it is.

[quote]WHET Savion Glover?

He is talented, but erratic and oddly ill-suited to Broadway and general collaboration. He could be unprofessional. He was frequently late, was occasionally violent and there were substance abuse issues.

Compare and contrast Dulé Hill. Similar paths, different outcomes.

Is Patagonia going to be doing a tie in for the puffy jacket that modern-day Tevye wears at the start of Sher’s non-equity Fiddler?

Worst Fiddler directorial choice ever.

[quote] ...only back then? Now it's always live?

For the Tonys, orchestra and ensemble vocals are pre-recorded. Solo vocals are live.

With all this talk of representation, why aren't we talking of Asian actors? For the most part, they have to wait for The King and I and Miss Saigon revivals to get work. Must be frustrating as hell. Allegiance was a short lived outlier.

R226, I think that's partly also leakage from the massive influence of capitalism, such that college students are no longer students (implying they need to be taught) but clients (implying they will purchase what they already want). Audiences are now "your client group" and it says something about you who they are.

It's utter BS, but I do think that's an influence.

r474- Little Red has a regular TV gig and has said she would love to return to ITW when she is available again.

How do I contact Ball to tell him I want to have sex with him?

r496 there were plenty of Asians in Mirrie

It posted while I was typing!!

Here you go, R499. I'm not sure if they accept sexual requests, though. But if they do - take photos!

R492, Cute as a button!

This might make some racist heads explode. (If only!)

Savion Glover is a great example of a young person being told they are “brilliant” and nobody having the guts to treat said young person like a regular kid, which involves discipline and humility.

I never was a Savion Glover fan, but he is fantastic in Bamboozled. I saw it recently and it reversed my feelings about him.

Very interesting about Glover. He really seemed to have it all. His last Wikipedia credits are 2016 choreographer for So You Think You can Dance, The Next Generation and 2018 the Talk Choreographing for Sheryl Underwood.

TV's SCHMIGADOON won an Emmy for "Corn Puddin'" for Best Music and Lyrics.

Sondheim never won an Emmy, by the way, which prevented him from being an EGOT. Just saying.

[quote]With all this talk of representation, why aren't we talking of Asian actors? For the most part, they have to wait for The King and I and Miss Saigon revivals to get work. Must be frustrating as hell. Allegiance was a short lived outlier.

Where have you been? We only care about BLACK representation. Diversity = black, especially women.

[quote] They'd rather have a white familiar face who can't quite execute but makes them feel all warm and fuzzy inside because they ONCE were great??

Stop talking about Patti and Bernadette!

Savion and his bong refused to be parted, no matter who tried. Sad.

Strange that everyone passionately clamoring for representation on the stage doesn't take up the banner for Asian, Latino, or Native American actors to be on the stage. It seems they only care about one color being represented.

Sondheim didn't really write for television, so he didn't exactly have many, or any, chances to win one. The music category was introduced after Evening Primrose; did he do anything that was eligible after that? (Guess he could have been a producer on something.)

Sondheim could have easily wrote a song for television if winning an Emmy mattered to him.

Into the Woods couldn't have won something?

"Could have wrote"?

Oh dear, Angela!

ITW could have won for directing or performance or production, etc., but probably not for the original songs. Same with Six by Sondheim.

Which Emmy could ITW have won, r515?

Outstanding Special? (Drama/Comedy)

Best Witch Rap

Maybe they could have given Sondheim a vanity producing credit so that he could get an award for doing nothing.

Isn’t Savion Glover choreographing the new Richard Lagravanese/Tony Goldwyn Pal Joey?

Which brings us back to my earlier comment, "Guess he could have been a producer on something."

Sondheim didn't even have a producer credit on the PBS Into the Woods (which you think they could have thrown him one, but kudos to him for not taking a needless credit if he felt it wasn't deserved), so he couldn't have won for that, even if the broadcast had.

Honestly - who cares? I am not losing sleep over Sondheim never having won an Emmy.

r496 The thing about representation that gets lost because everyone feels entitled is this, Black representation became an issue because most images and dialogue around the Black community is negative, look around this site if you aren't sure.

Having Black representation in movies, tv and stage creates an opportunity for Black individuals to be seen as human beings just like white people. Racism and the violence that goes along with it happens in part because Black people are not seen as human in the same way white people are, so shooting us in the streets without due process or denying us opportunity isn't that bad because after all we are just a bunch of animals.

This point is lost on other minorities who just see dollar signs when they hear about representation. For the Black community representation is part of our survival as a community, to be allowed to be represented in the images and stories the greater population sees in order to make us less the outsiders, to move us out of being "other" and into a place beside white people.

r525, evidently r508, since they were the one "just saying" it.

I'm sorry the rest of us were glad to have something to talk about besides the endless racism and representation discussion.

[quote] This point is lost on other minorities who just see dollar signs when they hear about representation. For the Black community representation is part of our survival as a community

That's right. We don't care nothin' 'bout no money.

If anyone was truly fucked out of an Emmy it was Judy Garland. She lost Best Female singer in 1955 to Dinah Shore and lost Best Variety performer to Danny Kaye.

[quote]This point is lost on other minorities who just see dollar signs when they hear about representation.

This is the biggest BULLSHIT ever posted on DL. You have proven that you are one of the fucking racists you complain about.

R512, you clearly have not been paying attention.

Or you have and you are looking to spread bullshit.

r528 yeah money goes along with having a job, is that supposed to be a mystery?

BLM has nothing to do with what we are talking about. You are well schooled in the same tactics the rest of the trump cult right wing racists use.

One other thing, allowing the other minority communities to protest about their own lack of inclusion without reminding them that the Black inclusion movement gained momentum behind the shootings and protests that happened in the last 20 years is helping dilute the purpose behind the movement. Effort should be made to keep the reasons behind the representation movement in the discussion about inclusion.

r512 What a stupid strawman

r526 Absolutely awful take

The bigger issue is, by and large, the black community broadly sees itself as one, at least culturally, and have come out to support black led projects. But Latinos and Asians don't really, not in the same way. Hence why In the Heights and West Side Story flopped - there was no big clamouring amongst Latinos in general to see a story about Dominicans or Puerto Ricans.

Oh FFS, you really are fucking tiresome. I hate blocking people because it fucks up the thread, but you need to go.

Even though Julie Benko had the opportunity of a lifetime - I would think after having a “Cinderella at the Ball” month - it will be a pretty bitter pill to swallow to have to go check in and be at the theatre as the stand by and watch all of the Hoop la swirling around Lea on her opening.

I know we were scolded about discussing people's nudes before, but that has to be better than this, right?

So there were two supposed BP dick pics circling around. Was there ever a consensus on which was the correct one?

Option a:

If they hadn't secured as name as Fanny, Benko would be out of a job.

Option B:

r533 I'm old and Black, go fuck yourself.

I have lived with racism a long time and what I said is true. Racists and those who have no problem being violent to people in my community do not see us as humans in the same way white people are and that makes it easy to brutalize us without feeling any remorse. Representation helps humanize us, seeing us in all walks of life as regular people helps make us a little safer. It's our "otherness" that allows people to dismiss our humanity.

(Since they look like two different dicks, the morally upright can only get mad about one. But which one?)

Whatever happened to...

I'm really interested to see what Glover does with Pal Joey. He certainly knows what's at stake, so he will probably be on best behavior, which should help those unprofessional stories. If he does a great job, he's reborn. Interesting that Spike Lee never worked with him again despite his outstanding work in Bamboozled but that was almost 25 years ago.

There was a performance of “Bring in da Noise” where the curtain was held because Savion had been arrested and was being bailed.

[quote][R533] I'm old and Black, go fuck yourself.I have lived with racism a long time and what I said is true. Racists and those who have no problem being violent to people in my community do not see us as humans in the same way white people are and that makes it easy to brutalize us without feeling any remorse. Representation helps humanize us, seeing us in all walks of life as regular people helps make us a little safer. It's our "otherness" that allows people to dismiss our humanity.

Okay, but would you grant that same representation to " humanize" other minorities as well?

Kinda hot.

Savion had it all and his looks around Black and Blue were beyond adorable. He's still an attractive man and I was a bit surprised he wasn't marketed towards a more teen audience during that time but maybe he was too much of an artist for that. I remembered seeing him a few years back on some commercial where he was in a kitchen with his child and there was no mention of who he was, although the commercial painted him as a superstar. No wonder I can't even remember the product.

[quote]I have lived with racism a long time

Which makes it all the worse that you then show racism towards other minority groups.

[quote]So there were two supposed BP dick pics circling around.

Bernadette Peters?

Bill Paley?

Sondheim wrote the scripts for 11 episodes of the TOPPER television series in 1953-1954. Were Emmy Awards given to writers of TV series then?

No, the Emmy for Writing for a Comedy Series was first given in 1955.

LACLO tried an all black version of Pal Joey in the late 70s with Lena Horne and Clifton Davis. It was not a success, not because of the color change but because it just isn't a very good show, IMO.

It's never been a "hit" hit, r552. I've never gotten the love for it.

R486, I've heard a few songs from REBECCA performed in various cabaret shows and elsewhere, and judging from those, the score is indeed hokey and of poor quality. I'm sure we could both explore further on YouTube, if we care to.

The EGOT has lost all its sheen since JenHud has it and Adele is only a TONY away. Please...as if Sondheim needed an EGOT.

REBECCA...

The coup de théâtre begins at 8:20. If I recall correctly, they wouldn't have been able to accomplish it in a Broadway theater without deep excavation which wasn't going to happen.

Welcome to MY show......

Rebecca...behind the scandal

[quote]So then you actually don't know what "sarcasm" means. What a surprise. Here's a hint: Sarcasm in this case means I was making fun of your ridiculous assertions.

You made fun of my assertions by writing about people objecting to black performers being cast in WICKED because there were no black people in Oz, which is utterly ridiculous, and of course not the sort of thing I would ever object to -- as opposed to a black actor being cast in a serious realistic drama as a historical figure who was white, or as the one POC sibling in an otherwise white family, or as a Southern plantation owner in the Civil War era, which is the sort of thing that I and many other people do object to. So if "sarcasm" was your aim, I think you're the one who doesn't understand the word. Epic fail.

Why don't you two start your own thread, r559?

r559 No, we get it, you need things to be super literal otherwise you get all confused.

When this thread dies I hope r559 computer does too.

Was the Sian Phillips/Denis Lawson revival unsuccessful?

Just wait until after Labor Day when all the exciting new Broadway shows start previewing! Then we'll all have a lot of great dish to gossip about.

Oh.............right.

Lea is Fanny Brice

R562, as always, people like you, who don't have the intelligence to participate in a serious discussion, resort to name calling and wishing people dead. You should be ashamed of yourself, but I'm sure you're not.

R566 how many times has this “serious discussion” comprised calling one another idiots? Please. Lincoln/Douglass or Vidal/Buckley this is [italic] not [/italic].

[quote]as always, people like you, who don't have the intelligence to participate in a serious discussion

The bitch fest going on between you two has *hardly* been a "serious discussion" and has derailed the thread and turned it into one of the shittiest Theatre Gossip threads ever.

Why have they given her 1940s hair?

That's the best press reel they could do for Liza?

R568, it started out as a serious discussion, but then I agree that it deteriorated alamingly. Anyway, sorry for my participation, and there will be no more posts from me on that subject.

Alec in ART? Oy.

[quote]Maybe they could have given Sondheim a vanity producing credit so that he could get an award for doing nothing.

I initially read this as "a variety producing credit" and imagined Sondheim producing one of Mitzi Gaynor's musical specials.

Thank you, r571.

Well, this thread went quickly. If not well.

I hope it was just the heat, r575.

What should the next thread title be?

A Tony award win is great, but unless there is something else in a career or you do a lot of publicity, it might not make you remembered.

R529 Dinah Shore was very charming and very pretty, but unfortunately she pretty consistently sang flat.

Did Dinah Shore ever duet with Helen Gallagher?

I'm not a fan of Dinah's singing, r579, but she did well with duets...

Dinah was able to sound pretty nice in duets and concerted numbers for the most part, yes.

I mean this seriously. The best singing I ever heard her do was when she did a duet with Tina Turner to Proud Mary on her daytime show. It was great because we didn't have to listen to her wobbly vibrato.

Dinah & Mahalia

I thought we'd talk more about my dick...

[quote]What should the next thread title be?

One with no references to colorblind or non-traditional casting, please.

Dinah slept with Burt Reynolds. Think about that.

[quote]Dinah slept with Burt Reynolds. Think about that.

Are you sure? I always assumed she was bearding for him.

Hence, the sleeping.

R583, do you mean that Dinah sang straight-tone on that occasion?

Dinah didn't always have a wobbly vibrato, but she was no spring chicken by the time she was doing her talk show.

LETTUCE AND LOVAGE!

R591 and that's why it's ironic that doing a rock number made her sound decent because she didn't have to hold any notes.

Don't forget George!

Who smacked one of the kids in the OBC of Chitty Chitty Bang Bang?

Torchy...

She looks like Dolores Gray from the side in that still with Kaye.

Whoever starts the new thread, please capitalize THEATRE GOSSIP. Thank you.

DInah had a wonderful voice early on, but she lost it pretty early. By the 70s, it was kind of painful to hear her. But she was so charming you forgave her.

Continue the scintillating discussion of Ms. Shore here:

My favorite

Bajour!

Bajour! Bajour!