UK: Lesbians Removed from Pride Event for Criticizing Gender Ideology

Wild noted that verbal abuse was being hurled at them, with one particularly hostile trans activist telling them that “lesbians can fuck off,” but police did nothing to stop the hostility that was aimed at Wild and her group.

“We did this action to highlight the way lesbians are treated within the LGBT community, and in Pride marches as well, where we cannot state that we do not like to have sexual relationships with men, even if the men identify as or call themselves lesbians,” Wild told Reduxx.

“It’s an issue that no one seems to want to talk about. One of our banners said ‘cotton ceiling is rape’ and another banner that said ‘lesbians don’t like penises.’ They don’t seem like controversial statements but that’s what got us all the harassment,” she added.

The ‘cotton ceiling’ refers to a term coined by porn star and trans activist Drew DeVeaux in 2015. It is inspired by the concept of the “glass ceiling,” which is used to describe discrimination women face in the workplace that prevents them for reaching upper management levels. The “cotton” refers to the material of a women’s underwear, and frames a lesbian’s refusal to have sexual relations with males as a form of discrimination.

Wild also says their participation in the Pride march was intended to provide opposition to plans the Welsh government has to introduce LGBT-oriented policy in an effort to become the most “LGBT friendly state in the world.” Wild stated she had concerns the policies were going to disproportionately impact women and lesbians as similar policies have in other parts of the world.

In a past interview with Women’s Declaration International, Timmermann explained that Get the L Out focuses on direct actions and research, and that the group was formed “because we realized that transgenderism is a threat to women, but more specifically to lesbians.”

“We see transgenderism as posting two main dangers for lesbians: the cotton ceiling and the trans’ing of young non-conforming girls and women, most of whom are lesbians,” Timmermann explained.

On Twitter, feminists and lesbian allies expressed outrage at the footage uploaded by Get the L Out UK, with many pointing out the irony in removing lesbians from a pride parade for not wanting to engage in heterosexual relations.

What a world we live in when lesbians asserting “lesbians don’t have penises” need a police escort in 2022 🙃 — Sonia Sodha (@soniasodha) August 27, 2022

“Pride was set up to protest against the homophobia directed at people because of their sexual orientation not for heterosexuals. Yet there we have it – same sex attracted women being harassed by heterosexuals,” Twitter user Davina Day wrote.

Many also took issue with the police claiming the lesbians’ removal was for “their safety,” when the threat itself was not being addressed.

“And ‘for your own protection.’ How about removing the men who were threatening them? Or maybe the law doesn’t apply when you identity as trans?” User Jonathan Hartley asked.

Pride Cymru released a statement following footage of the lesbians’ removal going viral on social media. In the short post, they suggested Get the L Out had “interrupted the march” and proclaimed “trans rights are human rights.”

A statement from Pride Cymru. pic.twitter.com/PQI4UDfnV9 — Pride Cymru (@PrideCymru) August 27, 2022

This isn’t the first instance of hostility being directed at lesbians attempting to march at gay pride events in recent months.

In July and August, lesbian activists in Germany were physically assaulted by trans activists for holding signs similar to those Get the L Out had in Cardiff.

On July 2, a group of women gathered outside of Museum Ludwig and unfurled banners which defined lesbians as “female homosexual persons” and declared opposition to the ‘queer’ trend. In response, trans activists heckled and harassed the women, and at one point a masked man rushed a young woman who had been holding a lesbian pride flag and put her in a headlock, wrapping his arms tightly around her neck and strangling her.

Why do they mutilate their appearance to look as unattractive as possible ?

Terrible!

(lgb)T

Drop the LGB 😔

R2: I don’t think gay men look that unattractive.

I told them THEN, so that I wouldn't have to tell them NOW.

Dressed to Kill had it right. Trans are psychotic men.

IT'S MA'AM !!!!

GetTheLOutUK banned from Twitter for posting videos of what happened at Cymru Pride.

Un-be-fucking-lievable. Actual gay women (and gay men) being silenced to promote people who "feel like" their opposite gender. Honestly, though, I do think the tide is turning, mostly thanks to lesbian women in the UK and U.S. And this gay man thanks them.

The title is misleading, making it sound like all lesbians were removed from a Pride event, and the article itself is biased and occasionally incoherent, so of course it was posted on Datalounge.

"Get the L Out UK" is just a "drop the T" type of group. In 2018 they disrupted a Pride event in London, and apparently at the time only had 8 members in their group.

This won't stop trending on twitter. People are furious. So transwomen are straight men in drag. OK. Why don't they just admit they're transvestites not transexuals? And forcing lesbians out of a Pride march? Drop the T, folks. They're nothing to do with us.

I am so angry for our Lesbian sisters. The world is upside down.

Great summary from Andrew Doyle

So, to summarize:

- "a man wearing a dress can be seen rushing towards Liane Timmermann, activist and lead campaigner with the organization, while shouting insults.

- "at one point a masked man rushed a young woman who had been holding a lesbian pride flag and put her in a headlock, wrapping his arms tightly around her neck and strangling her"

and yet the lesbians are the ones getting kicked out of parades?

Everything that Liane Timmermann makes perfect sense to me (a gay man), and I'd like to see more gay men marching with her and her group in solidarity.

TRANNIES!

[quote]the lesbian demonstrators were once again told they either needed to shift to the back of the march, or they would be removed entirely.

Shamed at Pride.

Good. Fucking lesbian troublemakers who KNEW they were being confrontational and wrecking everyone else's good time because *they* don't like something. There is a time and a place, ladies. That is not EVERYWHERE and ALL THE TIME for your carping and complaining and demanding. We are not interested and we don't want to hear it at a lovely, joyful, happy celebration of Gay Pride.

If you went there to simply celebrate your Pride at being Lesbians everything would have been fine. But no, you went looking for a fight and you got one. Mischief Managed you tiresome old dykes. You just suck the joy out of everything you touch. Constantly waaaaah waaaaah waaaaah, exactly like some of the people you claim to abhor. You should all get together and have a parade to celebrate WHINING.

I'm sick to death of you.

Go dilate, R20.

Go die in a grease fire, R21.

The reason Pride became a thing was to celebrate and help push for reform in some cases. Lesbians fighting for the right of same sex attraction and not same gender is a fundamental right of being Gay. This takeover by a political straight minority to push their fucked up leftist bullshit has put us in a position where we are fighting for the right as a Gay man to fuck another man and not some girl saying she is a man. This is what the whole point of being Gay is. Fuck this gender shit.

Andrew Doyle at R16 clearly demonstrates his Oxford University training.

He's brilliant at analysing the history leading up to this current murky bizarre mess we have to deal with.

Yeah, we're not allowed to dislike penis.

We have to tolerate it in our spaces and on our dating apps. If you dare put it on your profile that you prefer biological women only, your account will be reported and suspended.

As a result, I've basically ignored and given up on the Her app because an unfortunate amount of my likes are men in dresses. In fact, a significant number of other lesbians don't bother with it anymore either for that reason.

[quote]There is a time and a place

Yeah. And our TIME and PLACE is being taken over by men with no boundaries.

Fuck all the way off with your bullshit, r20.

R26, you're just one whine away from Datalounge Whiner of the Day! Yay you!

R20 You're not a normal person.

They went in looking for a fight and git booted. Seems appropriate.

Old fashioned, washed up gay (not "queer") man here. I'm with the dykes, the lezzers. Fuck this gender ideology bullshit, and the shitty straight people telling/demanding that lesbians get out of their own space.

Sex is the important characteristic, gender means nothing. You can change your gender by changing your clothes. You will never change your sex because it isn't possible. Same SEX attraction. Don't lose gay rights now after a long fight to get them. Start protesting (peacefully of course)

[quote] Why don't they just admit they're transvestites not transexuals?

transvestite: Bloke in a skirt

transsexual: Bloke in a skirt

transgender: Bloke in a skirt

Another "I'm a gay man and I hate trans just like lesbians and straight women do!" bullshit post. Feh. Don't believe it for one second, R30.

[quote] You can change your gender by changing your clothes.

Uh, no you can't. Sex/gender are identical. Change your clothes, change your gender PRESENTATION only. Your gender remains the same.

My head hurts

I don't care. If people are Trans, they're Trans. End of.

r34 sex and gender are not identical. Sex is a collection of biological traits like chromosomes and genitalia. Gender is 100% a social construct, privately and in terms of presentation. We decided as a society that woman wear make-up and men aren't allowed to be emotionally vulnerable. Gender has as much basis in nature as Santa Claus or the concept of Wednesday. It's a flexible concept and people shouldn't be so rigid about it.

R37 Sex and gender are identical. The ONLY social construct is gender PRESENTATION. Every single form you fill in states either SEX or GENDER with one box for Male and another box for Female.

Sex/gender are not flexible concepts. Except to those who failed a Year 9 biology course.

Why do these Lesbians and straight women think we need them to explain things to us? We don't and you're boring - a mortal sin on the Datalounge.

We know what gender is, we know what sex and sexuality are, we don't need Schoolmarm Nan constantly explaining it. Stop. Talk about people who have no boundaries, just look at yourselves.

It looks as though we do need things explained to us. I am a Gay man I crave dick simple. Don’t have one not interested. Lesbian craves pussy. Don’t have one not interested. That simple. But suddenly we have to explain why we won’t sleep with the opposite sex like it is fucking 1955. This Leftist crap has to stop.

Today it's the L being dropped from LGBT

Tomorrow the G

And the woke UK police forces will be on the front line enforcing it.

R40. You're logic is twisted. You are a gay man and you like dick. Same here.

But we don't define what gay means. Just because that's our experience doesn't mean other gay men aren't attracted to other things, like muscles, a bubble butt, or facial hair over and above dick.

No wonder a lot of people are dropping these labels - they just confuse people.

Who is Andrew Doyle? He has blocked me.

I'm with the ladies on this one. The real ladies. The lesbians. Drop the T, FFS.

Who does the DL hate more - lesbians or trans ppl?

All T all the time from a bunch of cunts who can’t or won’t even tell you what a woman is. Fuck gender ideology bullshit and fuck the trans cancer that has destroyed all the progress gay men and women have made in the past five decades.

Is that what's DESTROYED ALL THE PROGRESS, dear?

I think when the Right Wing moves to roll back gay rights, it's actually the fault of the right wing.

R47 public perception and reaction, dipshit.

[quote]destroyed all the progress gay men and women have made in the past five decades.

All deliberate too.

R25 reminds me—I can’t find it now but there’s a screenshot of a notorious tweet chain making its way around social media, of these two TIMs bemoaning the lack of women in the lesbian bars they’re occupying. They don’t seem to realise—or want to acknowledge—that their very presence is the thing driving women away from the spaces designated lesbian-only.

Because women are intuitive, and even the wokest and most brainless girls know by instinct when creeps are trying to perv and prey upon them. Same story with the apps.

Most single lesbians & febfems I know are going back to meeting in-person and in old-fashioned ways, it’s safer. At this rate, we’ll all be back to wearing violet perfumes and dropping hankies and using fans to signal each other.

Ah yes, it's never the fault of the Right when they do something awful. They were always goaded into it by the Left.

What a fucking idiot.

This cotton ceiling nonsense is just that, utter nonsense. Why on earth would a lesbian want to shag a person with male genitalia? Since when has it been unacceptable to have preferences? Are lesbians meant to shag anyone who asks them? It’s not compulsory. Everyone has preferences in a partner, whether it’s age, weight, height, hairy or not, and many other things. As it should be.

I think they’re working together, personally. That Jennifer Pritzker donated how much to Trump? A lot.

If it comes down to a civil war, I will side with my lesbian sisters.

If lesbians are meeting in private houses that really should be reported.

[quote] Who is Andrew Doyle? He has blocked me

Who are you, R43?

I guarantee that Oxford-educated Andrew Doyle is a lot smarter than you!

[quote][R25] reminds me—I can’t find it now but there’s a screenshot of a notorious tweet chain making its way around social media, of these two TIMs bemoaning the lack of women in the lesbian bars they’re occupying. They don’t seem to realise—or want to acknowledge—that their very presence is the thing driving women away from the spaces designated lesbian-only.

There was a post (from Reddit?) shared on Twitter a month or so ago about a lesbian who was friends with a trans woman, and the trans woman wanted a girlfriend and was pressuring the lesbian to set the TW up on a date with one of her friends. So the lesbian did. She set the TW up on a date with another trans woman and the TW was furious and unfriended her.

The TWAW mantra doesn't apply when you want to put your dick in some pussy it seems.

The BBC have covered the story and mentioned a protest that was about "hate" but not who was protesting and why.

Institutional capture.

^ The BBC has gone down Orwell's Memory Hole.

That’s too bad ^.

On a related note Kiwi Farms has been down several days due to a possible cyber attack. They believe it is because they are gender critical.

Totalitarian.

The element that is never mentioned in these cases is that the first rule of de-escalation is to remove the most vulnerable. If someone is being aggressive/ hostile to you on a subway, *you* are the one who will be asked to leave. You may be morally right, but you are the one most at risk of harm. Yes, it sends a message at the time that the police are siding with "the bad guys", but it is for your own protection.

[quote] for your own protection.

Yes, because those pretend-females were being so pugnacious.

Apparently, the very essence of the HOMOsexual statements: "Lesbians don't have penis" "Lesbians don't do penis" (and vice versa for Gays) are = *Stirring up HATE* that should be immediately removed or rightfully beaten with LGBTQIA+ and allies' fanatical cheering (to them, it's removing HATE).

Comrades, we must hate hate! We must prevent hate turning into violence by preemptive violence.

There’s a longer video which shows the Lesbians clearly joined the parade and were walking in front of other LGBTQIA+ people until they were stopped by some very angry LGBTQIA+ people and the LGBTQIA+ people were very aggressive and threatening to the Lesbians.

R56 that may or may not be the case but I have no clue who he is and why he blocked me when I posted that.

The world of TRANS is a world of CHAOS.

If you read the comments at r16, you see there’s no differentiating between “good gays” and “bad trannies.” All the same. At this point it’s probably best to just live your life while tuning out ALL of this noise.

[quote]and yet the lesbians are the ones getting kicked out of parades?

No.

I mean, you can post lies and WW yourself 100,000 times on here where no one will see and no one cares, but lesbians aren't being kicked out of parades.

About 10 members of "Get the L Out" were kicked out for trespassing. Police moved them to a nearby area and they cooperated, per the news, which I know you guys don't read.

Andrew Doyle is one of those conservative comedians who complains constantly about how someone criticizing him means he's lost his right to free speech. He's got a book called "The New Puritans" which, per snippets and reviews, is nothing but complaining about the woke, saying they're the real fascists. Basically the same shit the trolls on here say.

They’re both fascists.

R71 Can we assume from your rabid post that you are wearing a dress to cover your penis and man’s back fat?

[quote]On a related note Kiwi Farms has been down several days due to a possible cyber attack. They believe it is because they are gender critical.

KF goes down constantly, every time some little detachment of basement farmers decides to declare war on whatever lame thing they obsessively hate at the moment.

This time, they went after a Twitch streamer named Keffals who is an asshole and not the kind of person to just back down and get scared of Kiwi Farms, which was their big mistake. They usually pick on people who appear weak. Then of course there's the possibility that KF is down because of legal maneuvering after someone claiming to be a farmer tried to SWAT Greene a couple of times.

Null has listed a few trans people on his whiny update, blaming them for the downtime, but that's just Null being Null. It's stupid to say "trans have shut down free speech" in this case. You're going to do it anyway because that's how you operate, but it's not remotely true.

Good for them. BBC couldn’t mention what they were protesting because they made sense. Does this organization have a donation page? They seem a little confrontational but perhaps that’s what we need right now dealing with such hostile people with the media behind them. I welcome their publicity stunts to come and hope that eventually the BBC will have to show controversial but totally reasonable beliefs like “lesbians don’t have penises.”

Homosexuals daring to "actually show up with this banner" (that seems to all about what homosexuality is) = "Anti-trans!" "Bigots!"

Be prepared to get stoned, next.

Is that Ashton dude a gay male or a straight male?

I think a gay male. White gay male “progressives” are bad news.

Seems straight, R77. Straight people fundamentally don’t understand homosexuality. It’s the tale as old as time. We can switch on and off to men and women because we’re freaks and that’s what freaks do.

Whether they are dressed in their own gender or cosplaying gay lives, straight people have a subconscious disgust for gays and lesbians.

We used to have to places to go where we could be ourselves. Not anymore. The straights have pushed us out of there too.

My queen Magdalen covered a story like this last time hulking brolics threw hands at women at a fucking women's march. The only think lower than these assholes voices are their chances at scoring with lesbians.

Is he straight?

He says “most gay people support trans rights”. That’s so terrible and shameful. This gay person does not.

R82 yeah he's obviously not spent any time down here, or on L Chat, or anywhere that real actual gay people congregate in any significant number.

It’s Nazism.

Just to make sure we're keeping things in perspective, those lesbians were "evil" and were beaten by "good".

The woman posting that is part of Pride Cymru and Stonewall Cymru so is financially and reputationally involved in attacking "the TERFs" and pushing the Stonewall ideology.

Tale as old as time, R85. The heterosexuals are good and ideologically pure and the homosexuals are evil and filthy.

The call is coming from inside the house.

A woman is an adult human female.

Are any of these transwomen formerly gay men? Doesn't seem like it.

No R88, because gay men aren't trying to fuck women like "transbians" are. Think AGP, not HST.

She has stated her boundaries.. good for her!

R77- He's as QUEER as a 13 dollar bill.

[quote]lesbians aren't being kicked out of parades. About 10 members of "Get the L Out" were kicked out for trespassing.

Can you explain why lesbians would be asked to leave a gay pride march for trespassing?

I'd be willing to concede that maybe a pride march is not the absolutely best place to be highlighting your differences of opinion with other marchers (we're all supposed to be one big happy family!). But there isn't a pride organization on the planet that doesn't talk about being "inclusive." The women in "Get the L Out" were peacefully expressing an opinion that, apparently, was totally unacceptable to the organizers, even though that opinion is shared by many of the people that Plaid Cymru is supposed to represent. "Trespassing" is clearly a trumped-up charge to get rid of people who aren't following the party line.

I think a sign saying "Lesbians don't like penises" is hilarious and totally appropriate for a pride march.

More anti trans hate. Trans activism for equal rights before the law does not impede either gay male or lesbian rights. In fact their success in being guaranteed human rights is the success of all. All this silly noise is just another pose to dehumanize and discriminate. It’s the tactic of creating fear and victimhood to mask essential prejudice usually used by the far right.

r11

Let us not forget our wonderful biological woman ally JK Rowling who has truly been brave enough to not let threats of violence and cancellation stop her from saying the truth. Just wish there were more billionaire biological woman allies who could do the same.

Predators

[quote]Can you explain why lesbians would be asked to leave a gay pride march for trespassing?

Pride is a commercial event.

Looking at the website it costs £900 for a "trade union, public sector or non profit organisation to join the parade. So the Labour Party paid £900 for the privilege of being able to walk the route with a Labour banner while their ugly politicians wore those shit red Never Kissed A Tory tshirts. The local NHS organisation paid £900 for the privilege of walking the route with their staff.

So the Radical Feminist Lesbian's weren't just protesting, they were trying to join the parade without paying!

From the Pride Cymru website

[quote]We will make sure we review every submission we get; however, due to the high number of applications we receive, we may not be able to get back to everyone.

Translation: If you can't afford the £900 don't fucking bother.

What I don't get is the transcommunity talking about gender fluidity and yet they perpetuate the stereotypes

Give me a hairy dude with a beard, no makeup or dresses who undergoes surgery and I'll have an easier time believing they're about questioning gender myths. But instead it's wearing dresses and makeup and I played dolls with my sisters. Reinforcing every gender myth and reducing women to that. It's insulting.

I can't understand the duality, compartmentalization, schizo-ness of the idea of a "female penis"? Men who "present" as women, with no thoughts of gender-reassignment, are transvestites, not trans-sexuals.

As a half-Welsh lesbian who currently lives in Wales (had to leave England just before COVID, fucking cost of living), this is deeply disheartening. Feels like the walls are closing in, honestly.

Here's proof of what natives have known for months and years: that police here seem institutionally to be against helping or protecting women, straight or gay, from male violence. Every gay space in every town plays host to pernicious AGPs; from what I've seen, even some stores in a backwater like Newport have 'gender neutral' bathrooms and changing rooms. According to local mothers I've spoken to, schools here are teaching T ideology and obviously gay kids are being taken aside for 'counselling' rather than just left alone to play and figure it out. How is this happening to us? How do we stop it?

This is meant to be the free West. Where the fuck are Welsh dykes--women--supposed to go? Where may we live in peace, free from harassment or erasure or people trying to tell me that we're not in any danger when there are men in lipstick lurking round every corner? What sort of Orwellian hellscape is this?

Rwy'n galaru am dynged fy ngwlad..

BBC Wales have updated their "hate" story to add the details of the protest (Lesbians!) and to get a quote from the Chief Lesbian.

Welsh organisations have experienced institutional capture more severely than in England because the Labour Party are fully signed up to gender ideology and no one is willing to say no to it.

Stonewall Cymru have that bearded nutter Alex Drummond on their trans advisory board, who has gone into organisations and told them he's female because he wears dresses and make up.

There really isn't any other minority group who have been able to shape public policy in that way. No religious groups, disability groups, no racial groups or women's groups.

R93 Fuck off away from this thread and these forums and come back when you actually know what you are talking about. Really, just go away, we are not interested in your bat shit crazy view on this matter.

They were holding offensive signs and disrupting the event r92, and had done so for years, and had been asked not to attend the parade with their trans protests.

They weren't even kicked out of the event, they were just asked to move to another area, which they did. Which I've said before. And which is stated in news articles that have been linked.

If you don't want to hear the truth, then fine, but stop asking me to explain stuff to you, because your willful ignorance is not my problem.

[quote]More anti trans hate. Trans activism for equal rights before the law does not impede either gay male or lesbian rights. In fact their success in being guaranteed human rights is the success of all. All this silly noise is just another pose to dehumanize and discriminate. It’s the tactic of creating fear and victimhood to mask essential prejudice usually used by the far right.

Charlie missed the bit where Stonewall tried to get 2 black lesbians sacked from their jobs because they challenged the ideology that says any man can identify as a woman and if a lesbian says she doesn't want to have sex with a male lesbian with a penis then she's a sexual racist.

[quote]More anti trans hate. Trans activism for equal rights before the law does not impede either gay male or lesbian rights.

No. I don't hate trans, I just have absolutely nothing in common with them.

No, trans activism does impede gay and lesbian rights - because they have absolutely nothing in common.

I'm opposed to female genital mutilation and to modern slavery, and age discrimination, racial discrimination... But there is no logic, no commonality to align those issues with those of gays, lesbians, and bisexuals, all of whom do share something obvious in common. Discrimination and unpopularity among some sectors is not common interest.

A perverse manifestation of male dominance.

"Charlie" is a fucking fool.

[quote]So the Radical Feminist Lesbian's weren't just protesting, they were trying to join the parade without paying!

If this is the case, then I suppose the trespassing charge is valid, but I hope that next year the Get the L Out women manage to collect the money (I'll donate) to take their rightful place in the parade, and we'll see if Pride Cymru turns them down.

Meanwhile, why are they "radical feminists"? Is it because they're just doing what their biology is telling them? I'm a gay man who doesn't like vaginas - I don't even want to look at them. So am I a misogynist now?

Straight people (including trans people) just can't wrap their heads around how utterly different Kinsey 6 gays and lesbians are.

[quote]Meanwhile, why are they "radical feminists"?

[quote]So am I a misogynist now?

No. According to tard...I mean, trans-activist logic, you're being tRAnSpHObiC because men, apparently, have vaginas now, too.

Sincerely,

Clown world.

[quote]No. According to tard...I mean, trans-activist logic, you're being tRAnSpHObiC because men, apparently, have vaginas now, too. Sincerely, Clown world.

I'm quite tempted to do a study on Grindr and wait to see how many accounts block me when I send them a photo of a vagina.

r21 screwed up and posted from his other sock puppet account in r22.

r29, there was nothing provocative about their message. Lesbians are same SEX attracted females and females have vaginas. You sound as batshit crazy as conservative ammosexuals that hear 'We need reasonable gun restrictions', interprets it as a physical threat, and responds with a threat of gun violence.

r33, yes, dear. All of the good, obedient gays ('real' gays) in your life parrot "TMAM"/"TWAW" like monkeys dancing on the corner for a couple of pennies. It couldn't possibly be that you're ignoring the gays that don't tranny pander or that the gays you observe just virtue signaling because don't want to be on the receiving end of psychotic tranny rage.

r51, if the left is behaving in a manner that's driving voters to sit out elections or (worse) vote for the right, then yes, the left should receive blame.

r52, I agree with the sentiment, but have one correction: Our sexuality isn't a sexual preference, it's a sexual attraction/orientation. I prefer cookie dough ice cream, but I'll settle for pecan if I want ice cream and that's my only option. Given the option to have sex with another male or a female, I'll choose the male because that's the only sex I'm sexually attracted to. If the male is not an option, I'm never going to settle for a female.

r75, they couldn't because they knew if they did, viewers would question how the statement is wrong or controversial.

r93, trannies have equal rights. What you're demanding is enhanced rights that no other group has.

r108, any woman who doesn't trannypander is called a TERF. Even if she's some ultra conservative tradwife who thinks women shouldn't vote or own property, she's called a TERF if she doesn't agree with T&Co. It's a progressive way of calling a woman bitch or a cunt publically and not getting any pushback for it.

[quote]Does this organization have a donation page?

Get the L Out has a crowdfunder link in their Twitter bio.

“Andrew Doyle is one of those conservative comedians who complains constantly about how someone criticizing him means he's lost his right to free speech.” R71

Typical we brush a person as Right wing when we don’t like what they say. The Left love doing this. Andrew Doyle came from the Left and as you say he is a Gay man. He became more conservative because of the shitstorm that has become woke politics. He won’t be the only one.

The more you label people and push them away as beyond the pale, the more you will get people in the centre and that is probably most of us will embrace those labels and say fuck off.

This whole thing is an Orwellian nightmare and I for one have had enough.

[quote] The more you label people and push them away as beyond the pale

Yes, it's throughly infantile behavior.

Call me superficial, but why would a moderately unattractive straight man want to become a butt-ugly transwoman? Makes no sense. They'll never get laid.

R116 suspect that the TIMs weren't getting much or any action, anyway. It's real ditch-effort inceldom, tbh.

R116, they think women have fantastic lives that they don’t deserve.

Look at Amy Schneider the Jeopardy trans. She was a man up until a couple of years ago. Bald, too. I wonder if they start taking female hormones to get their hair to grow back. Amy claims she or he as he has a dick, has a girl fiancee now. I'm sure she's attracted to Amy's stunning looks and sex appeal and not her $2 million. Amy dresses like Agatha Christie. Very dowdy must be the equivalent of sexy for trans.

R118 the worst is when these creepy men try to LARP menstruating, playing with paint or sauce on pads & tampons & cups. It's horrifically insulting and crass. The cyclical pain and change and transformation that the female body goes through by force of nature, and how immense that is for every female, is something they cannot experience or understand, so for them to make fun of it in such a childish and demeaning way...it's beyond words.

^ LARP = Live action role-playing game.

Christopher Street Liberation Day: every one of the women's demands was agreed to. Women were at the head of the Gay Pride march, and women with bullhorns cleared the area of male interlopers. In this contingent, two women marched with a banner proclaiming: “Cocksucking Causes Cancer!” Despite the vaunted concern with censoring “sexism”, apparently none of the other women in the contingent suggested to these sisters that they were marching in the wrong parade.

The phrase, “cocksucking causes cancer”, is from a poem entitled “Cut the cock”, which appeared in the quarterly journal, Dyke (“To be sold to and shared by women only!”). Here are some lines from “Cut the Cock”:

Cocksucking can cause cancer

cockclimbers better watch their step

on the ladder to suck-cess-pool

cause the cockclock is running out of ticktock

and when the woman revolution comes

there ain't gonna be no pawn shop

where an old cocksucker can hock a cock...

R122 Are you describing some true historical event there?

[quote]cause the cockclock is running out of ticktock

Wasn't this line chanted at dusk on the first day of Michfest?

R93 What human rights do trans people not already have? “Trans rights are human rights” is a completely meaningless statement co-opted yet again from gay rights activists from a time where it DID mean something because being gay could get you fired from your job or evicted from your home. I have a feeling you have absolutely no clue about the bullshit you’re posting.

More information and interview with one of the Lesbians

If you buy into the theory that trans fall into only two catergories; AGP and HSTS, then I would say all of these men are simply AGP's, like Brue Jenner. I doubt any HSTS people would care to disrupt a lesbian parade since they are't trying to bang women and probably don't have a seething hatred for them, like pretty much all the AGPs do.

[quote] why would a moderately unattractive straight man want to become a butt-ugly transwoman?

Because they’ve been cranking it to fetish porn for so long, the only thing that gives them a thrill now is dressing like a woman.

It’s an overtly homophobic, misogynist agenda funded by white, male, heterosexual AGP technocrats who have also socially engineered a totalitarian culture of fear. They always, ALWAYS, mention trans women of color aka black dudes, but it only benefits rich white men. It's odd that the only way that black men are palatable to them is if they are emasculated. They fucking love emasculating black men, it's really sick.

Look, this is the Datalounge. We don't care who or what you want to fuck. Fuck this one, fuck that one, fuck the other one, fuck everyone, fuck no one - it's cool with us. We don't even really care that so many of you are actually straight "feminist" women who come here to talk to other TERFs because TERFs are not generally welcome on most sites and you are unable to talk freely elsewhere. We know they will ban you and throw you out. We really wouldn't care that you are here except that you've run amok and we're fucking sick of it.

We're sick of you constantly carping on about Trans everywhere and thinking it's perfectly acceptable to talk your TERF/Trans shit everywhere, all the time. It's constantly on YOUR minds but it is not constantly on OUR minds and we don't want to read about your shit dragged into every single one of the threads we have here. Stop doing that. If we're talking about Liam Neeson or Ricky Martin's children's Bio Mom, or House the fucking Dragon, WE DONT WANT TO TALK ABOUT TERFs and Trans. If you want an all TERFs and Trans discussion site dedicated to that purpose - great! Go build yourselves one. While you're here on the Datalounge site exercise some fucking self control.

Have some respect for our site. Have some respect for US. You have your TERF threads, go post in them. Talk to your TERF friends all day and night. Argue with Trans or people you assume are Trans all day and night. We don't give a shit, knock yourselves out in your own threads 24/7. If/when you wish to participate in other kinds of threads, great! You are welcome to do that but DON'T drag your TERF shit into them. We don't want to read it. We gave you space to be here on our site and have your conversations. Give us space to enjoy the Datalounge as we have been able to for more than 20 years now.

What is so goddamn fucking difficult to understand about that? Seriously, what?

unsurprisingly, Ms. Angela Wilde is associated with Sheila Jeffreys

Do read up on what these women that condemn the trans now but always come back to their hatred of gay men

you're toxic if you, you're toxic if you don't, you're just toxic and the cause of everything wrong with lesbians, lads.

“We don’t want to read it” r130 .

Are you two spirit or have you taken it upon yourself that you speak for all Gay people? Because you don’t. If this thread upsets you go!!. Why do you feel the need to come into a thread that you don’t like and say you don’t like it?

“ we don’t like this” who gives a fuck . Move on then

r130 Join the rebellion

You TERFs are fine in this thread. We don't give a fuck about what you think regarding gender ideology. We don't care who you want and don't want to fuck. Really, we don't care! It's fine, whatever you want to do, go do it. Whatever you don't want to do, don't go do it.

It's when you drag this shit into all the rest of the threads that we object to it. I don't know all Gay people, I know the Datalounge having been a member here for more than 20 years.

I came to this thread to tell you TERFs a few things and to ask you something. I'm allowed to do that, R135.

Please explain to me what is so difficult about exercising some self-control on the Datalounge? Why can you not keep your TERF/Trans shit in your own threads and not impose it on the rest of us? Why can you not respect this website? Why can you not respect US? We have been more tolerant of TERFs than any other site on the web. It seems a small requirement that you not overrun all of our non-TERF and non-Trans threads with your endless and constant argument about TERFs and Trans.

[italic] Why can't you give me the respect that I'm entitled to? Why can't you treat me like I would be treated by any stranger on the street? [/italic]

Continuing the war on women. I wasn’t all that serious before, but it is beginning to look like one subtle belittlement after another….

It isn't that subtle

God damnit,, lesbians don't want dick, and anyone who says they ought to consider it is a rapey straight motherfucker. If you are a gay man or lesbian who supports this shit you are a traitor or a liar.

Get the B and the T out of our spaces, there is a limit to what we will tolerate.

We kicked NAMBLA out and we can kick the "TQ plus" out.

Enough is enough.

Very clever!

I've experienced very well-paid female bosses crying during heavy negotiations.

r141

Self-proclaimed feminists have acted in ways that were harmful to both gay liberation and women's liberation, and reactionary ideas have been advanced under the banner of feminism. I do not say these things were characteristic of the women's movement as a whole; rather, they can be attributed to a small, but highly publicized, minority.

Although criticism of male homosexuality and gay liberation has issued freely from the feminist camp, there has been almost no reciprocal criticism from gay men, not even in self defence. It has become almost taboo to criticize anyone who identifies herself as a “feminist”. Why have feminists enjoyed this virtual immunity from criticism? For a number of reasons: Because most gay men really do support the women's movement, and are therefore hesitant to attack a women's liberationist. Because of a mood of guilt. Because feminists have so often demanded that things they disagree with be censored, and have so often gotten their way, that some men frankly are afraid of them. There is also an element of traditional male gallantry. And finally, there is a particular ideology which justifies the privileged status that feminists enjoy within the Gay Academic Union and other gay groups.

According to this ideology, the most basic division in society is not between class and class, but between male and female; distinctions according to gender are seen as far more important than distinctions based on wealth and power. According to this ideology, there is a hierarchy of oppression, with the oppression of women being the worst of all. It is an oppression so profound, so mysterious, and so ineffable, that it cannot even be described in concrete terms, as might other, lesser forms of oppression.

According to this ideology the oppression of homosexuals derives from “sexism”, the foundation of which is male supremacy. Homosexuals are oppressed because they, not being seen as “real men and women”, violate the “sex-roles” which sexism comprises. It follows that the oppression of male homosexuals is essentially a by-product of female oppression, and that the liberation of gay men must tail after the liberation of women. In effect, the gay liberation movement becomes the fag end of the women's movement.

According to this ideology, lesbians are doubly oppressed — both as homosexuals and as women — where homosexual males are merely singly oppressed. Gay men still enjoy a “male privilege” because, according to a central dictum of radical feminism: ALL MEN BENEFIT FROM THE OPPRESSION OF ALL WOMEN. So it would seem that gay men are not really so badly off, and perhaps it would be better if they did not devote their energies to repealing sodomy statutes and fighting discrimination, because these goals if realized would simply give them equality with straight men, thus objectively increasing the oppression of women. Instead, gay men should spend their time “dealing with their sexism”, which they acquired from having been born male, and in learning how to “give up their male privilege”.

According to this ideology, the best things gay men can do is to act as a “men's auxiliary” for women's liberation, taking their cues from feminists. And since men are the enemy, gay men should be willing to enlist as agents in the fight against males and against maleness.

r141 your lot continues to support and highlight people that claim all gay men are AGP as well.

Those that claim we come out through prostitution and paedophilia and have sex only imagining ourselves as women. I

f we call it out then you change the subject or we end up getting brigaded with F&Fs, and a flood of nasty reactionary replies for daring to challenging the key figures of these movements.

accused of being troons or incels, or whatever other insult you can muster.... the crybulling type as you feign being victimized by these alleged power dynamics that even mathematicians have difficulty figuring the math out..

all in all, you're just upset that trannies stole your schtick and you got burnt by it. . but rather than reflect on how your movements might have contributed to these ends, you fall back on tired ol' tropes. you don't want to abandon the gender ideology, not in the least, you just don't want trannies using it... in particular, mtf.. which you focus on solely because it's not about trans in and of itself but rather the hatred of men and all things male.

your politics are just as void of basic biology courses as the rest of it. Without protest and donations, you can't really make a viable living at it.. and then have to cry for people to pay your student loans, while protesting there aren't enough women in STEM because of the patriarchy.

Regardless of what Lesbians and feminists have or have not done. At the end of the day we have more in common with them than a straight guy dressed up in girls clothes trying to lick out a girl’ s clit with their dick still intact. That is not homosexuality. It is not Gay. It is a straight guy’s fetish and we are being made to pay the price.

What's your fucking point R144? Do you think lesbians should suck dick? If so, what even is a lesbian? Do you enjoy eating pussy? Well you probably do, sir. Most gay men don't. Women need their own spaces. Words have meaning. If lesbians like dick, they're not lesbians. Everyone is entitled to their own spaces. Sex protections are now basically gone.

r145 No, their rhetoric matters as do the talking heads and other causes they rally behind when they try to hijack both feminism and gay rights.. and DEMAND that we support them in their cause while actively working against us in the same breath.

They're against marriage equality, surrogacy, adoption, some of these voices they frequently support are even against the decriminalization of male homosexuality -- which they then exclaim with no embarassment is more to do with lesbian erasure.

r147 Then perhaps those women should fight more actively for "male only spaces"

^ certainly, if they're going to make demands upon the rest of us to fight for their spaces... while again, actively working against ours... our spaces, our places in society, our very rights.

I assume you also stuck up for Rachel Dolezal, right R149? I mean, it's the exact same fucking thing. Someone denying reality and claiming to be something they aren't and taking resources meant for someone else. But of course you didn't, because you know that it's fucking ludicrous to self identify as anything that you want.

They do want male only spaces ,the problem is that the fucking males that should be using those spaces are instead encroaching on the women's space. You think women don't want male only gyms? prisons? of course they do, they don't want men in theirs.

r151 I'm not sticking up for trannies at all, I'm criticizing those that want to criticize everyone else but refuses to answer to those figures that are an active danger to gay men as a whole. That in their fight against trans, uplift regressive homophobes to meet the same ends for gay men.

r152 do you even recognize how you speak?

R137,

[quote]Why can you not keep your TERF/Trans shit in your own threads and not impose it on the rest of us?

If men pretending to be women would stop invading women's and girls' spaces where they are getting naked, if prominent transgender activists would stop with the violent "kill all terfs" and "mouthfeel" and "girldick" rhetoric, if leftist men would stop physically attacking women campaigning for the safety, dignity, and privacy of girls and women, there would be no trouble.

It's just straight men wanting to perv on women and girls and I genuinely hate them.

I'm frequently told there's no more dangerous of a place than that which excludes women...

they also go on to suggest tht neither str8 male sexuality nor gay male sexuality exists because it's all homo socializing and detrimental to women.

Even gay porn is an assault on women.

There really doesn't appear to be any space we could have because nothing meets with their stern approval. . . like their need to hijack a pride event that was for everyone -- which is as disruptive as the very people they protest. And that we likely would to... but some of us are more concerned with our self preservation than throwing everything on the line for those ultimately lay the blame of trans on the whole of gay men and gay politics.

^ you don't see these fainting couch feminists calling it out in their crowd... instead they attack anyone that does.

Pride isn't for everyone! It's for gay people and men in wigs who fuck women are not gay people. Go fucking dilate.

r157 Not talking about trannies, talking about women, such as the one that has taken credit for coming from France to disrupt this event in the UK, who is associated with homophobic rad fems that are actively working against gay male rights on multiple grounds.

Why should I support them specifically?

Lesbians just don't want men telling them they need to enjoy dick. It's that simple. That's what the cotton ceiling is.

And if you REALLY think that the beardy man below is a lesbian because he likes pussy and wears make up and dresses then you really need some help.

One of London's gay saunas has started adding trans men to its adverts to make clear its inclusive. Trans men (aka formerly straight women) are already complaining that gay men are rejecting them for sex.

What starts with the lesbians doesn't end with the lesbians.

r199 you mean, what started with lesbians invading gay male spaces and then spread to trannies, don't you?

invading gay men's spaces, even throwing a fit to have L at the start of the alphabet soup.

I'm a guy but because I have a glamour lesbian sister and I know a bit about her life experiences I have to say it does sound psychotic that a trans with a dick and nutsac would think a lesbian would be interested in any of that. Is this why the trans loathe lesbians so?

I could never be attracted to a trans male who had a gash. Out of the question. My friends feel the same. So are gay men on the trans hit list as well? .

or those before the trannies started stonewall, were desperate to claim Storme, even if they hated that she was a butch, drag king, bisexual and, and probably hated that she was black, too... threw the first stone.

Oh, and how we had to listen to the retcon of history of how those poor pansies couldn't do anything without the lesbians, oh how the lesbians saved us all from hiv, oh how much lesbians did for us ungrateful faggots.

how dare we call out members of their brigade for being detrimental to our survival or for their homophobic theories on our sexuality.

r162 Yes, but ftm are merely misguided... they'll claim that's the reason we should support them but they focus their attention on mtf... it hits too close to home when many a political lesbian looks more mannish than a tranny and speaking with the same hatred of men and particularly gay men.

R155 many of us are not Lesbians but Gay men, aware for a long time that diversity is not about us at all, but an almost Communist ideology that pushes stereotypes and throws out anyone who dares question it.

We are being told boys who play with dolls must be girls and girls who play with trucks must be boys.

A girlfriend of mine was telling me her best friend found out her 5 year old son liked wearing her shoes. She then chucked all his boy clothes away and has started dressing him as a girl. That is insane ! It also means effeminate Gay boys and masculine gay girls will be pushed into the opposite gender, without the idea they maybe Gay. This is terrifying.

We need to fight like never before for the right to be Gay . You can’t say you were born Gay but then say to someone else they were born in the wrong body and need to change. if you can take pills to change sex why can’t you take pills to take the Gay away.

The whole thing is ridiculous.

Ah yes R159, that fucking creep and his "bandwidth widening". How is he remotely gay? He seems to be trolling us so hard yet people will really call him a brave, gay, oh excuse me, "queer" woman. What does this guy have to do with gay struggles? He could take his girlfriend to a country where being gay is against the law and he'd be just fucking fine and we all know it. He has no fucking skin in this game, he's a fucking poser. If you can self identify out of your oppression, you're not really oppressed.

r162 afterall, don't you know. gay men were the cause of lesbians using butch and femme, of penetration, of pornography, of well, everything they hate about lesbians

r165 Yes, and we would have to do it from every side.... I don't see how aligning with those that deem us to be toxic males and the scapegoat of so many of their issues is all that helpful to us.

R164 Who gives a shit if a woman looks manly? Unlike the seething MTFs, they don't need to "pass", they simply are.

r168 you should have gone with ftm to make your case, if you remember this is supposed to be about convincing me to blindly support those figures in your movement that are allegedly fighting for me too on this issue and why I should ignore the rest of their actions where they're actively working against gay male rights.

^ those women that say they choose to be lesbians and become quite triggered if anyone disagrees.

that's another area where they blame us for trannies...

those of that believe we're innately homosexual, they say that line of thinking has enabled transgenderism. . .

which, of course, it probably has...

but they center that focus on gay men and in their numerous literature on the subject spanning decades, even as far back as the 60s... they associate trans and gay men as one and the same.

So, it's no wonder so many in the replies that keep dancing around all these quite vocal homophobes in their crowd continue to claim I must eat pussy or I'm trans, or whatever....

Okay then, R169, I'll go with ftm. Do you think Chase Strangio and her boyfriend have at all lived the gay men's experience? Do you want them to speak for you? Keep in mind, if you are a gay man who doesn't like pussy, they will hate you and claim that you're a nazi and a fetishist.

the woman central to this act of protest... is one that has a radical gender ideology of her own and one that denies biology.

r172 I keep telling you I don't care about trannies. I do care where my rights are concerned, so why would you like me to align with these women that are actively working to prevent me equal rights as a gay male in society, and that continue to publish homophobic perspectives we would call out if it were coming from the religious right?

^ like with marriage equality, while they don't support marriage of anyone, they focus on overturning those laws for gays and lesbians because it's more doable. . . likewise, the same extends to surrogacy and adoption.

When the Republicans come for gay rights, and it won't be long, take comfort that when your and your husband's marriage ceases to exist one of you can simply identify as a woman and get remarried and restore your rights!

r175 Their politics aren't that different from republicans. so again, why should I align with these specific women that are actively trying to limit my rights as a gay man, that in their own fucked up gender ideology claim that masculinity is toxic, and believe that my sexuality is a crime against women?

[quote]Why can you not keep your TERF/Trans shit in your own threads and [bold]not impose[/bold] it on the rest of us? Why can you not [bold]respect[/bold] this website? Why can you not respect US? We have been more [bold]tolerant[/bold] of TERFs than any other site on the web.

Shut the fuck up.

R172, I am not R169 but I'll take a crack at this. Why would I care if "Chase Strangio" and his boyfriend have lived the Gay experience? Is that any of my business? Why would I care if they pretend to speak for me? Why would I care if they make bizarre and outlandish claims that I am a Nazi and a fetishist? Why would I take any notice of them at all?

I don't care about them and how they live their lives or what they say about anything. I've never even heard of them, why would I give a shit? They can say and do and live in whatever way they choose, just as I can. I don't see how it matters. I don't see how these people existing infringe on my life or on anybody's life. I don't care about "women's" spaces or "men's" spaces. I just don't.

The Trans people in the world Male or Female, I have no problem with them and I wish them the best of luck. The are taking a road that is beset with difficulties. All this screeching and attacking them, don't you get tired of it day after day, month after month, year after year with nothing to show for it? Maybe you should take a vacation, enjoy your friends in the real world, take up a new hobby, get a dog, something besides this TERF shit all the time.

[quote] “Men’s liberationists always bring up ‘confronting their own feelings about men’ by which they mean homosexuality. Male homosexuality is an extension of the reactionary club (meaning both group and weapon). The growth of gay liberation carries contempt for women to the ultimate: total segregation. The desire of men to ‘explore their homosexuality’ really means encouraging the possibility of homosexuality as a reaction against feminist demands. This is the reason the movement for “gay rights” received much more support only after women’s liberation became a mass movement.

The reason why we worry about the Trans stuff is that it is hidden behind Gay Rights. We are continuously told this is something we agree with , it is being done in our name.

All the money for Gay Rights are going help Trans people. If you speak up you are told you are a Fascist or a Terf . You are told you are literally helping in the deaths of Trans kids.

Tell me about Gay kids. Tell me about effeminate boys or masculine girls what happens to them?

Everything is being done in our name and I for one think fuck no!! I want none of it.

If you are Trans and have gone through everything, then bless you. But those who won’t, why the fuck are they in the Gay community? Why the fuck have we changed the fucking flag? Isn’t a rainbow fucking inclusive enough?

Fuck this shit.

r181 Yes, if you speak up against the trans they label you a fascist or a terf

and if you speak up against the radical feminists and political lesbians over their male homophobia and activism to eliminate equal benefits and rights, you're a fascist or an incel.

Why are trans-related terms so weird, like "cotton ceiling?"

r183

[quote] The name refers to the phenomenon of the glass ceiling, with 'cotton' being a reference to the knickers worn by women, signifying sex. . This same concept, except involving transmen and gay men, is referred to as the boxer ceiling. But as terfs view gay men as a threat, they don't really give a shit about that one.

This is just too much. How about no more stupid parades declaring your sexuality or new gender/no gender. Just F***ing live your life and assimilate into society so you’re not singled out as “a freak”. We wanted to be seen as equal, it seemed it was happening where being straight or gay was your sexuality not your identity and then the GENDER NEUTRAL movement fucked it all up. Now everyone is deciding day to day what gender they are, if they want to transition or then regret it and making sure the world knows all of it. Fuck off.

[quote] feminists have so often demanded that things they disagree with be censored, and have so often gotten their way, that some men frankly are afraid of them. There is also an element of traditional male gallantry. And finally, there is a particular ideology which justifies the privileged status that feminists enjoy

Yikes, lot of MGTOW/MRA dogwhistling in the last fifty replies. Read with caution, people.

[quote]The name refers to the phenomenon of the glass ceiling, with 'cotton' being a reference to the knickers worn by women, signifying sex. . This same concept, except involving transmen and gay men, is referred to as the boxer ceiling. But as terfs view gay men as a threat, they don't really give a shit about that one.

The difference being trans men can't forcibly rape gay men with their front holes.

Trans women are very capable of raping lesbians with their ladydicks.

There is of course pushback, such as when a woman with double mastectomy scars entered Mr Gay UK or some similar competition.

r186 So, if gay men are concerned about their rights and protections, any kind of self preservation... then they are MGTOW/MRAs? So, what separates the threat of you from the threat of trans?

[quote] why should I align with these specific women that are actively trying to limit my rights as a gay man, that in their own fucked up gender ideology claim that masculinity is toxic, and believe that my sexuality is a crime against women?

R: ‘Man centers the struggle of all women for basic privacy and respect in public spaces as well as safety from male violence and harassment, to make it all about his right not to be offended and protecting his own Ego’.

r187 So then why do you demand gay men to be concerned with your issues when you're not really concerned about theirs?

[quote]Typical we brush a person as Right wing when we don’t like what they say...He became more conservative

I said he was conservative. You just confirmed it and agreed with me, yet you're trying to say I was lying, and you're upvoting yourself a bunch of times to make your near-unreadable gibberish sound like it's majority opinion.

You trolls are really fucking stupid.

r189

[quote] R: ‘Man centers the struggle of all women for basic privacy and respect in public spaces as well as safety from male violence and harassment, to make it all about his right not to be offended and protecting his own Ego’.

so group with a gender ideology upset at another group with a gender ideology... and both groups demand gay men bow in submission to their ideology or face harassment and attacks.

[quote]Just F***ing live your life and assimilate into society so you’re not singled out as “a freak”.

^^^ Found the straight rightwing piece of shit who isn't even a regular on here

[quote]R93 Fuck off away from this thread

You fuck the fuck off, hettie shithead. R93 is a gay regular who has been here at least 20 years. He belongs here. You don't.

You fucking whiny troll-ass pieces of shit are constantly telling us to just scroll past your trolling and hate speech. You're always crying "waah, boo hoo, I can say whatever I want, you can't stop me," but the same goes for everyone here. The actual regulars on here, the real people behind the accounts, the people who aren't posting hate speech all the time ALSO get to "post whatever they want" and if you don't like it, suck it up, buttercup.

This is not your safe space.

the woman that took credit for this disrupting this event is part of a collective full of well known misandrist homophobes that suggest gay men are AGP, the same way as trans and actively campaign to end marriage equality, gay surrogacy, gay adoption, gay pornography, gay, gay, gay, gay, gay, gay, gay, gay, gay, gay, gay.... they set the entire blame on male homosexuality even for the problems within their own camp.

point out this fact and the accusations come flying.,.. their beliefs are common knowledge, you can look up the names, you can find the connections, you can find their publications... they're not shy with their position regarding male homosexuality except when they're demanding that gay men defend them in matters like these.

[quote] so group with a gender ideology upset at another group with a gender ideology... and both groups demand gay men bow in submission to their ideology or face harassment and attacks.

R192 ffs can’t you get it through your head that womens’ rights arent ‘gender ideology’? Female=immutable sex, which should mean immutable rights. It’s only men with fetishes ‘demanding’ access to womens’ bodies and sanctuaries who refuse to accept or agree with that.

Don’t want to help feminism’s as a gay man? Fine, don’t help. The majority of women haven’t asked anything of gay men except that they get out of the way and stop caping or trying to protect straight men and trans from criticism. Be a neutral, if that’s what you want, see how that works out for you. If you don’t want to be a shield for us, very well; just don’t be a shield for them, either.

And FYI there are ethical problems with surrogacy in general, whether it’s gay men or hetero couples who enlist the services. It’s creepy, traumatising and disrespectful to use a woman’s body as a vessel, end of story. Again, read your Atwood, and stop imprinting your desire for heteronormativity (having children etc) onto womens’ bodily autonomy.

[quote]Don’t want to help feminism’s as a gay man?

LOL

[quote]The majority of women haven’t asked anything of gay men except...

...the constant use of a gay forum to spread lies and propaganda and trolling on, constantly, all day every day, including homophobic attacks and stereotypes.

There, finished yer sentence for ya.

[quote]Be a neutral, if that’s what you want, see how that works out for you.

I love it when the fake lesbians threaten all gay men.

r196 So, when it's convenient you lump them all together and hide behind it as if to say if we don't support the radical position, then we must be misogynists.... if we support every individual in this fight against the trans, even those detrimental to our rights, then we are against all women. And if we call them out the same we would the religious reich, we will face social reprisals.

What's telling is how you all dodge the statements of these women, their part in a collective that is excessively anti-gay male even to the point of taking that hatred into the real world and trying to reverse laws that are passed or influence those nations where laws have yet to be passed. . .

you won't come out and renounce them instead you launch attacks at me. you try to invalidate my sexuality, my sex, suggest I'm a sockpuppet or an incel, a mgtow, a republican, everything and the kitchen sink, whatever you can do to try to negatively affect my reputation for daring to point this out, for daring to ask questions...

[quote] when it's convenient you lump them all together and hide behind it as if to say if we don't support the radical position, then we must be misogynists.... if we support every individual in this fight against the trans, even those detrimental to our rights, then we are against all women. And if we call them out the same we would the religious reich, we will face social reprisals.

The above isn’t intelligible written English. I can’t parse what you meant.

[quote]And FYI there are ethical problems with surrogacy in general, whether it’s gay men or hetero couples who enlist the services. It’s creepy, traumatising and disrespectful to use a woman’s body as a vessel, end of story. Again, read your Atwood, and stop imprinting your desire for heteronormativity (having children etc) onto womens’ bodily autonomy.

The way the media covered the stories of Western couples who were using Ukrainian surrogates and who had to "rescue" their unborn babies, with no mention of the pregnant women in whose wombs the babies were currently living, was quite disgusting.

Some gay celebrities who have used surrogates to have kids have received very little criticism. Tom Daley and his husband received criticism because they're TRAs who don't believe in the reality of biological sex, yet settled on a womb person to incubate their baby, and who complained about them law because they didn't have the right in the UK to pay for the services of a surrogate.

R200 yep, it’s equally disgusting when straights do it. And the worst is celebrities using displaced or poor or ethnic people as their carriers. The whole industry is sick and vile, and sometimes I can’t believe the polemics I read here in defence of it.

Love that you used the word ‘incubator’, because that’s exactly what it is. If the bodies of poor or POC or refugee men were being used or trafficked in this way, you can bet there’d have been legislation against it double-quick. But it’s womens’ bodies, so who cares, right?

[quote]Love that you used the word ‘incubator’, because that’s exactly what it is. If the bodies of poor or POC or refugee men were being used or trafficked in this way, you can bet there’d have been legislation against it double-quick. But it’s womens’ bodies, so who cares, right?

I'd call myself centre left politically, socially liberal and in support of employment laws to protect workers. I find it amazing that the progressive left are so supportive of sex workers and surrogates who provide a service with their body that is much more likely to cause serious health problems than working in a chemical factory, working with dangerous people or in extreme cold and heat.

You think the progressive left would be calling for sex workers and surrogates to earn a special kind of employment rate for the services they offer, but no.

Profile of Cardiff's "oldest gay pub" which is the same age as Shawn Mendes!

Always loved the Golden Cross when I was in my 20s because it was the rougher of Cardiff's gay pubs and me and my friends were always the most beautiful in there because the really hot boys always went to the other places.

And I even got into a fight on a rugby day when all the gay pubs turned straight to take in the people attending the match. I'd had a few drinks and took exception to some 50 year old blokes making homophobic comments so I accidentally poured my rum and diet coke over one of them and scream "You think anyone's going to try and feel your arse, you ugly cunt?". Those were the days.

Perhaps it’s time that every “faction” go it on their own. You’d designate as GM (gay male), Lesbian (gay female) and likewise let Bi’s and T’s (MTFs/FTMs separated) go it on their own. Meaning no shared forums, no shared events (pride marches, etc) and clearly delineate each group. Largely because the LGBTQIALMNOP+** is becoming too unwieldy and obviously do not display a shared opinion.

Just keep it simple. Division in the ranks will destroy all of our efforts. If different groups want to align in cause from time to time, then fine as it would become a union to achieve a very specific goal. However, infighting would prove cancerous to all causes.

[quote]Perhaps it’s time that every “faction” go it on their own. You’d designate as GM (gay male), Lesbian (gay female) and likewise let Bi’s and T’s (MTFs/FTMs separated) go it on their own. Meaning no shared forums, no shared events (pride marches, etc) and clearly delineate each group. Largely because the LGBTQIALMNOP+** is becoming too unwieldy and obviously do not display a shared opinion.

Laws have never recognised gender. They recognise sex.

Gay men, bisexuals and lesbians were never "banned" from getting married. They could always marry someone of the opposite sex. That's why we call gay marriage "same sex marriage" not "same gender marriage".

Same sex attracted people had to fight for rights for them and their partners to be treated on par with opposite sex couples.

That's now resolved. So the gay rights organisations have no need to fundraise and campaign. So they adopted trans rights.

And equal rights aren't enough for some people, as this Guardian column about a gay wedding highlights.

[quote] In this precarious time, a queer love so powerful that it brings hundreds of people together in a field to witness and honour it deserves not only a ceremony but a defiant parade. I know it was supposed to be the happiest day of my friends’ lives, but it was also the best day of mine.

As long as there is money involved, people will continue to fight the culture war.

r199 you lot separate yourselves from other feminists and frankly piss on them like everyone else... but when you're cornered, you conflate that you're all the same and hide your bigotry behind them as a defense.

One might call that crybullying.

I never mentioned anything about marriage - straight or gay, same sex or opposite sex. I was simply stating that banding all non-straight causes together is becoming unwieldy and bringing infighting. That’s all.

^^^sorry, I’m r204.^^^

r207 they say it themselves. Well, not here, of course... that longer vid I posted of Jeffreys says that gay men and lesbians aren't able to work together and then goes on with several distorted claims, like suggesting we as a whole advocate for or at least don't fight against paedophilia, too. The allegations that there were conferences set up around discussing disgust with female anatomy is absurd. . . that we all imagine ourselves as women when penetrated, that essentially our entire sexuality is either constructed around wanting to be women or hating women, as it further and further on.

We're definitely not allies with political lesbians. . . and unfortunately, they along with the religious reich and many other anti-gay groups lead the pack when it comes to all things addressing conflicts with the trans community.

What’s a political lesbian?

r210

r210

R210 it’s a euphemistic shorthand for, “I don’t agree with this uppity wench and think she should know her place as a lesser and stay out of politics advocacy & activism (mens’ purview), but I’m too chickenshit to admit that because I’m loathe to offend the straight liberal men whose cocks I crave and whom I’m scared to anger, so I just hide *my* bigotry (which I’m entitled to, as a social superior) behind this officious word-salad terminology and hope no-one notices and calls me out”.

r213 the women in question call themselves "political lesbians" so are you saying they're after cocks?

213

No R214, I was saying that a certain small contingent of gay men who set themselves dead against vocal feminists (there’s no such thing as a ‘political lesbian’, it literally doesn’t make sense as a term) are the ones who want to appease men, and therefore take on straight male misogyny as their own.

R215 Bindel is a homophobic Pick-Me nutter, and she doesn’t speak for me or many other lesbians for that matter.

r217 which is why I made the distinction between lesbians and political lesbians.

r216 ah, so you were being passive aggressive and attempting to gaslight because the questions raised in this thread and in particular the association of the woman that has taken credit for the topic of the thread is too much for you to bear, so you pretend it doesn't exist even though it's all that information is clearly found... in which they identify themselves as.. but you say it doesn't exist and claim instead there's a cabal of gay men that made up this term?

It should seem obvious that a woman can easily have sex with one or both sexes. This is a continuum and does not always end in bisexualism. It’s simple biology that women can be more fluid and still PREFER sex with a male(straight) or female(lesbian). I simply can’t understand that the sexual response of female vs. male can even be compared in this respect. Any woman, straight or gay, can be be pleasured by another female. It’s not the same for males. It would seem that fellatio/anal sex between a gay male and a straight male has parallels to female rape by penetration.

r222 please continue with this theory on male sexuality... try to elaborate for those of us that may be a little dense.

I can not continue. A man being forced to receive fellatio from another man vs. a woman forced to receive cunnilingus from another woman? Such incidences are quite rare to begin with. Both instances are sexual assault BTW.

[quote] the woman that has taken credit for the topic of the thread is too much for you to bear, so you pretend it doesn't exist even though it's all that information is clearly found...

Didn't say that the aforementioned women don't exist or shouldn't speak. I just said that they aren't lesbians, and shouldn't call themselves as such with any prefix attached. They're bisexual misandrists, or otherwise straight celibates, with a soapbox--NOT lesbians of any stripe.

Unbelievable that anyone needs reminding, but: Lesbians don't ever have sex with men and don't want to, period--it's not about 'opting out', but about a primal and lifelong abhorrence of intimacy with men that's deeper than a beard-stroking political statement or position arrived at in adulthood. That's the accepted standard definition, and trying to change using twisted semantics in the name of proving a point in the Oppression Olympics it is in itself an act of homophobia and misogyny.

But apparently everyone wants to be a 'lesbian' now, don't they? AGPs, bisexual women, bored teens on Tumblr looking for their next identity. And they're all trying physically and emotionally to take our very language and beinghood from us. It's more than a message-board capture or a march.

But you still have to acknowledge that, to a point, biology is destiny. A woman has the privilege to be omnisexual, whereas a man cannot. The very anatomical openness of female sexuality includes any and all pleasure or can choose to deny it from any group. It’s that flexibility that woman anatomically posses that men do not. For a man, whatever you are sexually excited by defines your orientation and preference, straight, gay or bi. There is no fluidity.

Bunch of fucked up people on this thread. Live and let live. Who am I to tell someone who and what they are? I don’t see any trans folks (aside from a few quacks as there are among all people) telling me I cannot be a gay male. Why are some of you so riled up (like these crazy lesbians). Chill out. Most trans folks like most gay people are just getting through the day and not threatening you or your rights one iota. Sure there are some obnoxious people among trans- just as there are some obnoxious and prejudiced gay people and straight people. No one on this thread has any right to dictate to others their sexuality, their self identity, or their health choices unless those choices hurt others (e.g. refusing vaccination). That’s the bottom line.

R227, Charlie, if you don't want to fuck a woman pretending to be a gay man, you are an evil TERF transphobic bigot who shouldn't participate in Pride. If you can accept that as "live and let live" well fine for you. It's pretty chickenshit but live your life. But this thread was started because a group of *lesbians* were kicked out of a Pride parade because they said they didn't want dick. I'm not fucking okay with that.

Why are lesbians bearing the brunt of all this trans fallout?

Because trans women are straight men with a sexual fetish and they enjoy harassing women, especially lesbians, R229.

R230, and lesbians are the only people on the planet who do not worship straight men.

R230/R231 thank you, that’s the perfect encapsulation of the whole problem. It’s a relief that there are some gay men who see through the smokescreen to the reality.

I T RA N S

It’s funny, most of the trans women I know are into men, and most of the trans women I come across online are too. Yet datalounge tells me this is not the case, it’s almost like there’s some misrepresentation afoot.

Anyway, crux of the matter is this. No lesbian is being forced to have sex with a trans woman against her will, it would be rape if she was. Just because an occasional trans person says on twitter that it’s transphobic not to have sex with trans people does not mean that that is the case and also this is not the same as someone being forced to have sex with someone they don’t want to have sex with. These TERF lesbians just wanna grumble and get some attention, they showed up to cause a scene, got what they wanted and still grumble about it afterwards lmao.

FWIW - most lesbians aren’t like this and are inclusive and thoughtful individuals so please don’t tar them all with the same brush. If any of you went out in real life you’d know this. Any pride event generally is inclusive of all parts of the community, which is great. These division thread are tiresome.

r234 This is for you.

[quote]FWIW - most lesbians aren’t like this

Said, the non-lesbian.

This is just like a man to speak for all of us. If anything, you're just bitter because there's a demographic out there who refuses to worship that bean pole between your legs and isn't afraid to call you out on your bullshit.

We used to just be called bitches for it. Now that you want to be women, we're "exclusionary bigots." A sad attempt at a "gotcha moment" by stealth misogynists if I've ever seen one. Also, I'm old enough to remember where even straight women who turn down dick are accused of being "dykes" because gay or straight, WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO DENY MEN ACCESS TO OUR DRAWLS WITHOUT RIDICULE.

TERF is indeed a slur. Just call us the "bitches" that you really want to and stop being a disingenuous coward.

Watching the Caroline Cossey/Tula videos the idea that transsexuals who are feminine men literally trapped in the wrong body and who go to surgical extremes to be as real a woman as possible is a prospect that makes most people sympathetic.

As Cossey said, if she committed a crime she would have been sent to a men's prison.

But then you get the fake trans men who hate women and who make no real effort to change their appearance or have surgery or hormone treatment to be their real self.

Trans ideology says Karen White is a woman in the same way that Caroline Cossey is a women in the same way that Hillary Clinton and Aretha Franklin are women.

[quote] TERF is indeed a slur.

Lmao R236 you gals literally came up with the term in order to self describe. I’m just using your chosen words. You slurred yourself in that case. Why pretend otherwise and make it a bigger L?

I’m neither trans nor speaking for all lesbians, but I know a lot of lesbians that are all fine with trans people, and have been to lesbian events where there was very identifiable trans acceptance (dyke day in LA most recently). So you can speak for yourself and your four friends, and I can speak for my own experience.

I don’t call women bitches btw but I will call you an absolutely total loser lol.

r238 even if some lesbians say they support transwomen, they won't have sex with them. If they did, they'd be bisexual and not lesbians. And TERF was a term made up by the transtapo. There is no such thing as a TERF.

Oh and no one wants to suck your "lady dick."

R137 you claim to have been on the DL for 20 years and yet...

"Please explain to me what is so difficult about exercising some self-control on the Datalounge?"

MARY!!!!!!!

A most useful thread for blocking screeching transphobic lunatics.

Well you know R239 you don’t make the rules for everyone thank god so that’s really none of your business who other lesbians choose to sleep with. Creepy of you.

There is such thing as a TERF, go check out a mirror to see your local member of the troupe!

I already said I’m not trans, learn to read. If you’re trying to make yourself look less crazy a top tip is not to accuse everyone you disagree with or being trans. It doesn’t help your case.

[quote]Tell me about Gay kids. Tell me about effeminate boys or masculine girls what happens to them?

Oh, it doesn't really matter if they get surgery, they aren't normal productive straight people. Who cares? I don't.

So this thread has descended into a squabbling mess about Lesbians not supporting Gay men enough? Wtf

This is about us as Gay people being thrust aside for a tiny minority with a huge voice. We have been captured by an extremist fringe and if you dare criticise it , you only have to see some of the replies here to see what happens.

This is quite simple really . A Lesbian is a woman who loves biological women and a Gay man is a man who loves biological men. That simple. There are many variants within that category of course but simply that is it.

Why would a Lesbian woman therefore want a man in a dress with a dick and why would man want a man without a dick. They may of course, but surely that is an exception rather than the rule.

But we are going around as though everyone is open to everything and everything is a blur.

It is not. We have become captives of an ideology that at its heart is homophobic and frankly stereotypical.

If you want to be a girl and your man go your hardest but don’t make me change as well.

Make MadTV parody again.

Holy God, R195! That video is [italic]insane[/italic]! Is there a thread on this video? I had a look but couldn't find one.

I couldn't believe what I was hearing. You know when something is so offensive that all you can do is laugh at the ridiculousness of it? That was me. I am [italic]fascinated[/italic] by these women who make all these pronouncements about gay men when they haven't got a clue what it's like. And why are they thinking about us all the time? Aren't they meant to be lesbians?

I've never actually experienced the stereotypical "man-hating" lesbian before. All the lesbians I know in real life are wonderful. It's kinda fascinating. And I just laughed at them continuously. The [italic]horror[/italic] of the Tom of Finland cartoon! Also: "My next book: Penile Imperialism..." ROFL!

But also, it's not funny at the same time. Them trying to connect gay men to paedophilia is disgusting! What utter rot!

Interview with one of the lesbian removed from pride (because homosexuality is offensive to autogynephilic men).

R244 this whole debacle is more about sex than sexuality—men using fetish to intimidate and threaten women.

Normal sexual orientation, gay or straight, barely figures into the issue, except for the fact that for the sake of money and lobbying Pride has made itself into a convenient battleground.

r248

[quote]Normal sexual orientation, gay or straight, barely figures into the issue, except for the fact that for the sake of money and lobbying Pride has made itself into a convenient battleground.

The 2 protected characteristics in the Equality Act 2010 are sexual orientation and gender reassignment.

Stonewall's education regime often promotes them as sexuality and gender identity.

Sex is also protected under the Equality Act 2010. Sex as in male/female. TRA's are trying to get that changed to 'gender'.

[quote]Sex is also protected under the Equality Act 2010. Sex as in male/female. TRA's are trying to get that changed to 'gender'.

I had a look at the anti-discrimination legislation in our state in our country the other day out of interest, and while the material on the website says you can't discriminate against sex/gender, the legislation [italic]only[/italic] mentions gender, which I thought was interesting...

There's at least one trans loon that is responsible for 47 of the replies on this thread.

r253 So, someone may actually agree with you but because they're concerned that the person spearheading this specific protest and that they're detrimental to their civil rights and liberties of gay men... they must be a trans loon?

What's next accused them of being trannies because they didn't vote for republican?

r253 Why should gay men support you when you're just as dangerous and pigheaded as TRAs can be?

Even Welsh tv soap operas aren't free of MTF.

What's Welsh for "I know you speak English?"

Has anybody asked if the Welsh television viewers told the network they felt tranny deprived?

[quote] Why can you not keep your TERF/Trans shit in your own threads and not impose it on the rest of us? Why can you not respect this website? Why can you not respect US? We have been more tolerant of TERFs than any other site on the web.

This is not one of your pro-trans hug boxes, asshole. I've been here for damn near 15 years, and the DL has [bold]NEVER[/bold] been a tranny safe space. [bold]YOU[/bold] are the fucking interloper, not the gays & lesbians that are discussing how your constant boundary pushing is directly, negatively affecting us.

Further, your post is a prime example of how your team has a problem with positioning your perspective as the norm and the perspective of those on the pro-facts side as the aberration. This kind of psychological manipulation does not work in your favor and makes you as creepy as you're made out to be.

r227, have you not been paying attention? Their choices ARE hurting others. (see below)

r241, a most useful thread for blocking screeching tranny-panderering lunatics.

R244, WW!!

One more for you, r227/Charlie. This asshole's crime will not be included in the stats for women, and he'll be housed with female inmates.

On last article for you: MTFs have taken to invading women's support groups:

[quote] On August 22, Reddit user thats-so-raven- made a post on the r/MTF subreddit describing having had a woman removed from a support group because she was “transphobic.” The user, who has since been suspended from Reddit, stated he had been a participant in a trans-friendly motherhood support group and had pushed the center to bar a woman from attending anymore for suggesting motherhood was a female-exclusive experience.

[quote] A woman in the United Kingdom was banned from accessing a resource center for rape survivors after expressing discomfort with a trans-identified male who had taken to attending the women’s counseling sessions.

[quote] In July, a Canadian domestic abuse survivor was evicted from a transitional shelter in Vancouver, British Columbia for disagreeing with policies with allowed trans-identified males to be housed in the residence with the female victims.

[quote] Earlier this year, another post on r/MtF made the rounds on social media and even resulted in mainstream media coverage after a male posted photos of himself [bold]attempting to breast-feed a newborn baby[/bold] in order to affirm his gender identity

So, again, why should gay men support you when you're willing to support individuals that actively campaign against gay men?

R259, AMEN!

[quote] your post is a prime example of how your team has a problem with positioning your perspective as the norm and the perspective of those on the pro-facts side as the aberration.

Further, the use of the term "cis" to describe non-trans people reframes actual men and women as oppressors and trans as oppressed, which is why I refuse to use it.

Trans loons are very good at framing and semantics. They rely on the good nature of people to trick them into using their jargon out of politeness. I used to do it. Not anymore. Not since I saw the true face of trans activism. terfisaslur.com for abuse directed mainly at women and at the link below for hatred and abuse of gay men.

[quote]Even Welsh tv soap operas aren't free of MTF.

There's a Welsh language show about a drag queen called Maggi Noggi. There's something about the N so close to two Gs and an I that makes me shiver, but I'm sure it means something in Cymraeg.

It feels like every BBC celebrity show now has to have a drag queen on. Which is good for promo for Drag Race UK but bad for the viewers,

I remember the old days when the BBC brought us High Culture instead of the current Trash Culture.

R264 - the name is a punning on ‘The Mabinogi’, a collection of Welsh stories first written in the Middle Ages having previously been part of an oral tradition. But you knew that.

As a Welsh-speaking long-time DL’er, it’s kinda fascinating and unnerving to see S4C soaps suddenly being discussed here.

Some posters here are REALLY obsessed with 0.0001% of the population.

So, again and again and again, why should gay men support you when you're willing to support individuals that actively campaign against gay men?

I kind of wish I knew wtf r268 was talking about and to whom?

r269 this movement which seems to attract numerous anti-homosexual figures and involved with groups that are actively campaigning against issues that matter to the majority of LGB, such as the disrupter of this event

[quote] The name is a punning on ‘The Mabinogi’, a collection of Welsh stories first written in the Middle Ages having previously been part of an oral tradition. But you knew that.

Not the OP or the one who asked, but I did know that. It’s obvious to anyone who knows the first thing about Wales.

And tbh as a Pagan whose spiritual path is tied to the Mabinogion, I don’t really like or feel comfy about alluding to the text for the sake of a broad comedy drag show made to get cheap diversity kudos & box ticks and to make fun of women.

But ofc it’s not all about me and I can’t dictate what airs and what doesn’t, so we move. I’m sure the ratings will keep it on...😏

r269 if things continue in the thread I'd suspect another around of being accused of being a trans-loon or such concerns will be dodged, dismissed or embraced.

So, I'll keep repeating the question

why should gay men support these people and not call them out for possessing much of the same politics as the religious right and actively campaign against gay men?

[quote] why should gay men support these people and not call them out

You have the right and privilege and freedom to call out who you want—you’re doing it right now, ad nauseam. It’s just aggravating you, as a man who loves to be right and to lead the bellicose charge, that you can’t find a majority here who agree and falls into lockstep with your opinion.

As for your ‘support’, like others have said, do or don’t, it’s up to you. Your ethical decisions belong to you, and no-one in society is trying to take them away—again, as a male, you don’t face the same peril and precarity when it comes to autonomy.

When the time comes, you’ll know whether you backed the right horse, and you’ll have to live with that choice whatever the consequences. Gods’ speed.

I don't have any skin in this game, but have been reading posts on this topic just out of interest. And it does seem that many of these people who are gender critical, are, when you look closer, also fiercely homophobic. I know that some of the initial points they make sound reasonable (of course gay people shouldn't be pressured into sex with opposite sex genitals, of course sexual orientation and gender identity are different, of course there should be better mental health care rather than extreme surgery on young ones, etc), however beyond that they really do seem to have some extremely conservative and anti-gay male views, so it is definitely important us gay blokes are cautious about what we're supporting.

I do note that this hasn't been everyone I have looked into, a handful of them are what you might call true leftists - very concerned with supporting unions and worker's rights. But yeah, others have some pretty scary views.

I'm also just not sure who all these online trans people are, you know? And why I should worry about a strange person with a Twitter account. I had a look at that google doc with all the homophobia coming from trans people and there was so much awful stuff said there, but also, who ARE these people? A Twitter account doesn't mean your opinion should be listened to.

Anyway, I support everyone being able to live their lives and be protected under the law, and also to not infringe on the rights of others. I know I'll get pilloried here but at the end of the day, I support human rights, including trans people. To do otherwise would go against my values. I won't allow someone insane to accuse me of being a bigot because I won't sleep with them, and I don't see a problem with different groups having their own spaces if they wish, nor do I think we can't have discussions and debates, but as I've said elsewhere before: my outlook on life is 'There's A Party and Everyone's Invited (But If You're an Arsehole, You May Be Sent Home)'.

Whoever lets these men into women's groups "to be nice" is part of the fucking problem. The hand maidens are worse than the troons. Yet everyone knows who is an actual woman and who isn't. In the case of an apocalyptic event where the veneer of civilization is stripped away, we are all just our biology. And there's no "identifying" out of it.

Next the TERFs will be claiming that the earth is round despite the fact that the ground at my feet is clearly flat!!

And in SOME places, like valleys, it curves UPWARD! What does your evil TERF science say about that, hrm?

R268 R272 The reason you’re not getting much traction with your statements about the individuals who are gender-critical also being homophobic is because it’s a broad statement the “LGBTQ-infinity” activists and commentators and publications have made over the years ad nauseam. Then, when looked at closely, we find that these “anti-gay” comments/statements/laws/whatever is where the term “gay” is being used loosely to mean lgbtq-infinity. And that lgbtq label is being used in order to not mention that it’s about trans. People have caught on to your games. There may or may not be some individuals spread out among those who are gender-critical who were or are not “pro-gay” everything. That doesn’t erase where our interests cross nor where reason is spoken concerning this topic. That’s what being adults is all about. Your reasoning is that you may only agree with individuals who are in agreement with you about everything. You’re appealing to a know-nothing/juvenile type mentality. That’s how you’ve made it this far. If individuals, gays/lesbians/women, state that boundaries exist then they’re “being mean”. They’re not “sharing”. As if this topic was about chaperoning two children playing each others toys and not about gays/lesbians/women giving up hard fought boundaries and recognition won from previous civil rights battles. All because someone now “identifies” as you! WTF?!

R227: "Live and let live... No one on this thread has any right to dictate to others their sexuality, their self identity, or their health choices unless those choices hurt others"

charlie, you clearly have no understanding of women's lives, experiences, and common traumas if you don't understand why they MUST retain the right to single-sex prisons, shelters, sports, and intimate care, and why the destruction of those spaces "hurts" them. And that's okay. Why SHOULD you understand women? You're a gay man who has little interest in them, and that's perfectly fine. But you need to get out of the way and let female human beings make policy, organizations, and spaces for female human beings. It's simply none of your business. Stay in your own lane!

Eldergay here and I admit I've always been something of a misogynist. But since the Trans have taken over the media, social media, politics, etc., I have come to realize I must be a TERF. Women do have rights and transwomen with dicks are not women.

One of the Cardiff MPs has been continually criticising the protests, having worn one of those shite Never Kissed A Tory tshirts.

She's also Labour's minister for victims, attacking women protesting against coercive sexual abuse and curing lesbianism with penis therapy.

She's famous for cheating on her husband with a married politician.

R280 who? Just asking for a friend. For reasons.

Anna McMorrin.

She looked at lot better than the dreadful Lucy Powell

Quite funny that McMorrin's pinned tweet is an interview of her on GB News who last week hosted a holocaust denier.

And another of Cardiff's MPs is an obese homosexual drug addict.

He stayed in the closet to get chosen as the MP (large Muslim population who would have opposed him) then officially came out when elected.

Doughty had repeatedly asked a vulnerable constituent to supply him with controlled drugs. When the constituent made that public, the police cautioned the constituent for supply the drugs but not Doughty for receiving controlled drugs.

Another of Cardiff's politicians. This one has previously been suspended for being an antisemite, but she's a close friend of the First Minister so that's ok.

TERF bullshit gets no traction, switches to bitching about Cardiff politicians.

[quote] There really isn't any other minority group who have been able to shape public policy in that way

That's because they're not a minority group: they're straight white men.

Lesbians are goddesses and the only good part of the LGBT.

From their post history, R287 really hates gay men.

Exactly R286! If you can't get what you want in suits, put on a dress and cry oppression.

Feminism is not an ideology. It is a basic human rights issue. Women have a right to be free of penis.

Seriously though, lest anyone be fooled that this is about trans women of color, R286 is right. They always mention the trans women of color but it only ever benefits straight white dudes. Look at that Telly dude of the Hags restaurant, he too mentions the TWOC but he's a straight white man. Richard Levine, straight white man. It's only by accident that people like Laverne Cox have made out well. That wasn't the intention of all this.

R291 exactly. This TRA movement is racist as well as sexist, but we the drone peasants aren’t meant to notice that.

I used to give them money every year, but I just officially unsubscribed from HRC’s mailing list. They sent a full-on propaganda email from a staffer with they/them pronouns gaslighting us into believing that some kids are being shut out of sports just because of who they are. For me, this biological boys/young men playing and obviously dominating women’s sport is one of a basket of final straws that our movement has forced upon us. I’m out.

Right R293, the sports, just like the armed services ban. It wasn’t a ban. Men with autogynephilic fetishes simply had to bunk and shower with the rest of the men, rather than being given free license to assault the female soldiers, as they have now, and we weren’t funding breast implants for them, as we are now. Predatory perversions are NOT human rights.

Correct.

why should homosexual males support you in this cause when you're so dismissive and hostile of them?

r289 are you talking about political lesbians or trans?

Go dilate R296.

r298 Sorry, what?

R299

r300 I don't have that issue, dear. So, no need. Is that something of a fetish for your lot? Is that why it's so triggering for you? You're turned on by it and then feel shame post-orgasm?

[quote] your lot?

What lot are you, R301?

r302 The one west of the Salem, Rose.

[quote]The very anatomical openness of female sexuality includes any and all pleasure or can choose to deny it from any group. It’s that flexibility that woman anatomically posses that men do not. For a man, whatever you are sexually excited by defines your orientation and preference, straight, gay or bi. There is no fluidity.

What is this fuckery? Women also have orientations based on what we're excited by. We don't get turned on by "any group" just because we "anatomically possess" vaginas. Despite what you see in porn, a majority of women aren't licking shag and dick equally.

[quote]I used to give them money every year

No, you didn't. You're British.

[quote]dominating women’s sport

See? British.

You also tell stories about all the liberal friends you have in NYC who love Chick-Fil-A.

Odd. A group wants to 'Get the L Out'. But then when the police comply with their request they get all upset.

No r305 that’s the shit coming out of your man made coloncunt.

r304 Exactly. But I'm sure that person would be all up in arms if one dared to insinuate that most men have no sexual standards, due to having penises, and can, quite literally, get turned on by a hole in a wall because "a hole is a hole" which makes them the most "sexually fluid" demographic on the planet. Obviously. /s

Typical bullshit male ignorance about female sexuality. Nothing to see here.

Agreed, r308. Saying men can be bisexual yet possess no "fluidity" seems contradictory. Hell, some men are capable of getting erect with farm animals- are we supposed to define their orientation by that?

A broad, open older woman once told me as a young girl that "men will fuck a chicken sandwich without a second thought, sweetie." I've never forgotten that.

Nope, not from the UK, R305. And sadly, yes, many of my liberal friends do go to Chick-fil-a, thought not sure what in the fuck all that has to do with this thread.

being gay is a gender ideology btw