Do you personally think Robert Wagner responisble for Natalie Wood's death?

Nope.

There’s reasonable doubt

Yes and no.

Both he and Natalie were drinking and arguing all day. I think they scuffled, she fell in, he was too drunk to do anything about it and probably in an alcoholic blackout. He likely has no memory of any of it.

R3 Yes, I'd go with that as well. I heard a rumour that he admitted to the family that she fell in and he just laughed at her. He was so drunk, he couldn't help her. But it was a rumour. There wasn't any evidence of it.

Why hasn't the sister come out and name Kirk Douglas as Natalie's rapist? She said she would once he was dead. He's dead now but not a word from her.

R4 I think Lana said it after Kirk's death.

Michael Douglas released a statement, not denying the rape accusations but he effectively said I hope they both rest in peace. Before that, I wasn't sure of Kirk/Natalie story but after his son not even denying it, I believe it now.

I think three adults had too much too drink and did some really stupid stuff remembering only bits and pieces and someone died

I also think it was 41 years ago and at this point nothing is going to change, so it's time to let it go

R6 But Wagner isn't dead yet so there's still gossip to be had. And this is a gossip site.

I think the only part of the story Robert Wagner is withholding is the fact that when drunken Natalie fell off the side of the boat Robert was in the cabin going down on Christopher Walken.

Roddy McDowall told me no, but did not get into details. R8's is probably wrong in details, but correct in spirit. I saw Robert Wagner at a few gay Hollywood parties. He was "I will do the Gay stuff as long as I take the straight role" kind of straight opportunist slumming with the Gays. Unfortunately, I know nothing about Christopher Walken.

Lana did say it in her book that came out last November, didn't she? It was reported that she did, but I never got around to buying the book for myself.

Variety says Lana confirmed it was Kirk in her book "Little Sister," so she HAS said so.

I would imagine it didn't get a lot of press in part because so many Millennial-aged gossip and entertainment writers insisted that the rumor was something CDAN faked with that Himmm character. There were some people who just refused to believe that the rumor had been around since Finstad's book. After the book, Lana was asked if it was Burt Lancaster or Kirk Douglas, the two actors who fit the description best, and she said she'd tell after the guy died. Lancaster died and crickets, so everyone figured out it was Douglas.

I’m on the fence as to whether or not Wagner did something to make her fall in the water but I definitely believe that there was a lack of action once they realized she was gone. Wagner waited a couple of hours before calling it in. It is so heartbreaking to me - what a scary, lonely death.

According to All That’s Interesting: As for Wagner’s hesitance to call anyone, he did eventually did — at 1:30 a.m.

Natalie definitely died after falling off the boat. Robert was there and Christopher Walken was there. That's all we know for sure, besides Natalie being deathly afraid of water.

Of all of the people on that boat that night my finger points to Christopher Walken. He (with a side order of Wagner) had the means and the motive. Hard to take because I love him as an actor

The question remains, after Natalie fell off the boat did Wagner and Walken go back to finish what they started or did it kind of kill the mood 🤔

What in the world was Christopher Walken's motive ????????

No, it was a tracing accident. Wood's sister uses the story for attention.

R16, He wanted the fur coat, Rose.

I'd need to see Lana's tits again before coming to a definitive conclusion.

@r16, He was DICKNOTIZED by Robert's waggin' wiener 😛

For r19, They're very nice if you're into that sort of thing

You expect a closeted gay men to rescue a damsel in distress? Um yeah, not going to happen.

RJ was totally besotted by the old Hollywood dames like Bette Davis, Katharine Hepburn, and Barbara Stanwyck. I think he even wrote a book about them in recent years. This fact alone sets off my gaydar to Lavendar Alert.

^ Yes, he was...

“The first movie star I met was Norma Shearer. I was eight years old at the time and going to school with Irving Thalberg Jr. His father, the longtime production chief at Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, devoted a large part of his creative life to making Norma a star, and he succeeded splendidly. Unfortunately, Thalberg had died suddenly in 1936, and his wife's career had begun to slowly deflate. Just like kids everywhere else, Hollywood kids had playdates at each other's houses, and one day I went to the Thalberg house in Santa Monica, where Irving Sr. had died eighteen months before. Norma was in bed, where, I was given to understand, she spent quite a bit of time so that on those occasions when she worked or went out in public she would look as rested as possible. She was making Marie Antoinette at the time, and to see her in the flesh was overwhelming. She very kindly autographed a picture for me, which I still have: "To Cadet Wagner, with my very best wishes. Norma Shearer." Years later I would be with her and Martin Arrouge, her second husband, at Sun Valley. No matter who the nominal hostess was, Norma was always the queen, and no matter what time the party was to begin, Norma was always late, because she would sit for hours—hours!—to do her makeup, then make the grand entrance. She was always and forever the star."

R16 Yeah, I don't understand. What was Chris Walker motive?!!

R3 is correct. Most likely scenario. They were fighting and very drunk. Natalie drunkenly decided to storm back to Catalina in dingy and fell into water. Screamed for help but Wagner either to drunk to hear or too drunk to take seriously.

Nope- they all had been drinking heavily since lunch. The guys were passed out or at least too fucked up to help her and Wood in a snit or blackout or both stumbles into the ocean and cannot swim.

It’s a cautionary tale of drinking recklessly. It’s a tragedy.

It wasn't just alcohol, they were also taking Quaaludes. There were statements from people who were on nearby yachts that night who recalled hearing a women begging for help and a man mocking her, saying " Sure we'll help you." It is said that Walken and Natalie were having an affair that began during the movie they were both working on at the time and RJ knew this and was angry, idk. I do not think it would have happened had they all been sober that night.

I was just about to chime in with r28's recounting of other people on yachts hearing Natalie calling for help and a male voice laughing mockingly. But I don't think it was deliberate; I think everybody was so drunk that when she fell into the water the other person -- whether it was RJ or Walken, I don't know, but I suspect it was RJ -- so completely stoned that he didn't realize the severity of the situation. I've been that blotto drunk/stoned before, and it's discomfiting to realize after the fact that had something horrible happened, you would've not been able to respond appropriately.

Some people here weren't aware of Lana coming out with the story of Kirk raping Natalie, and Michael Douglas basically confirming the truth of the story? It was ALL over the internet that week.

Yes. Thanks for asking.

I don't know if he's responsible, but he definitely knows more than he's telling. So, he's protecting someone for some reason.

If I had to bet, it's a scandalous story along the lines of Natalie walked in on Robert hooking up with some dude. She was drunk and became hysterical or angry, so ran out onto the deck of the boat. They argued and she drunkenly fell off the boat at some point.

Yes...Everyone was drunk, got into an argument, one thing led to another, accidentaal homicide.

R29- Oh my, it was huge! But once the shock of Michael Douglas confirming his own father was a rapist there was the rumor of him also murdering that actress that came out as well. ( So sorry, I have forgotten her name.) She was a young actress who allegedly was pregnant with KD' s baby.

The woman in the left photo in R21 looks ridiculous with those breasts.

Jean Spangler. She disappeared and her body has never been found.

I have suspicions about Natalie's death, primarily because of the bruising and scratches, but they could be consistent with someone trying to get back into the boat or that dinghy that was nearby. The original story of her trying to leave the boat while Wagner and Walken had a big fight seems very plausible to me, especially if they were all drunk and angry with each other.

R35- Thank you, yes they were having an affair and she became pregnant with his baby. His motive for killing her was that she supposedly refused to have an abortion. He was married and was afraid if the public found out his career would have been ruined. ( I happen to believe he was a violent and sadistic man who enjoyed hurting and humiliating women.)

Jean Spangler never having been found kind of freaks me out. She said she was going to meet her deadbeat ex, and he would be the prime suspect, but the police reportedly focused on him extensively and could never find any way to make him work as a suspect.

I agree, r37. I was never much of a Kirk Douglas fan, he always struck me as slimy, but hearing the stories about Natalie and Jean Spangler has really turned me off of ever wanting to see any of his films again. I've seen all his acclaimed movies -- and I suspect he was so good as assholes in movies like Champion and The Bad and the Beautiful because he perfectly understood, even identified with, those characters -- so I have had sufficient Kirk Douglas for my life.

R38- KD was obviously capable of violently raping young women. It isn't difficult to believe his violence could have escalated to murder, even if he didn't mean to go that far and just lost control of himself.

Kirk was disliked by fellow actors and actresses.

I felt sorry for him but they probably heard and knew some unfavorable stories about him.

R39- I have never liked him either, even before this came out about him. I know the word narcissistic is very much overused today, but that man's picture should be included along with the very definition of the word. He was nauseating.

Wood and Wagner were gay so I doubt he killed her. He probably does not like his personal life scrutinized

Of course Kirk was a monster. He lived until a billion years old

Yes. She died in his watch

Don't know and don't care about these old white cunts.

R46- Ok, we release you then, you are free to go. 😘

No. I've seen photos of the Cover where the boat was anchored and even the most terrified of water person could not conceive of drowning there. It's so close to shore, it's sheltered, there are a million other boats nearby. I also read (Coroner's report) that Natalie routinely took the dingy to shore (like, a trip of less than a minute) to phone her kids. She was comfortable there.

The night she died it was raining, she was wearing a heavy parka, the skid thing you stepped onto to get onto the dingy was slimy, and she fell in. The wind took her out of the cove and she was too drunk to shed her coat, which got waterlogged and did her in. I do think she as a matter of routine was re-adjusting the dingy tie and slipped. In the water she grabbed for the dingy and due to the weather was already out of reach of the boat. Also lots of noise coming over the speakers from shore. Struggled to get into the dinghy (apparently the way to do it is backwards - sort of reverse yourself in) and couldn't because she had on the coat.

I used to think Christopher Walken was sinister but now I just think he looks that way. I also don't think he and Wood had an affair no matter how much she may have wanted it. They were all just drunk and arguing. He's said he'd seen the ski thing the dingy was next too himself and it was slippery, and she was wearing a coat, and he had no idea what happened because she was "alone." He said only she knows - which explicitly takes Wagner out of it.

Lana Wood is a junkie who turned everything she got from her sister into trash. I think Natalie Wood was a diva but I'd have washed my hands of Lana too. Invited to the Robert Wagner/Natalie Wood re-wedding she sold photos to the tabloids. She tried to sell what items she got from her sister's will (clothing, furs) and they ended up in vintage stores with "Worn by Natalie Wood" on them and Wagner bought them back from her. This whole mystery is a cash grab for Lana and she'll keep riding that pony til she's dead. She was homeless a few years ago.

Why trigger me with microaggression of the enslavement of black bodies. Though it also makes me horny. Fuck me senseless.

But did she drown really ? DID THEY CHECK THE CABINS ???

R48- Great info on Lana, thank you. I wasn't aware of this. I believe the coroner said that but for that thick jacket she would have survived. I do not believe she was murdered either. I believe if they had not been mixing Quaaludes with alcohol it wouldn't have happened.

I don't believe he killed her. I, too, have heard the rumor that he told his family that they were ragingly drunk and stoned, she somehow fell in, likely trying to get in the dinghy, and because of the heavy parka eventually drowned. BUT he admitted to his family that he knew she fell in, and when she called for help he drunkenly mocked her. He thought she was going to fine in his drunken state. When he realized what happened, he omitted the part where he knew she had fallen in when he told his story to the cops. His family forgave him and protect him.

I believe it was all really just a terrible accident where no one used good judgment because of all the chemicals. Very sad.

Interesting about the gay rumors that have circulated about Robert Wagner. There were rumors that Natalie caught him with another man which led to their first divorce. There are plenty of rumors that he was happy to sleep with men early in his career to get roles. I think he was probably bi. R9's post that he was happy to be with men if he could be the top would match up with married bi guys I've been with in the past. Wish I could have had a tryst with Wagner. As a young gayling, when he went shirtless on Heart to Hart, it gave me the tingles.

NATALIE WOULD BUT TAB WOULDN'T

What kind of junkie was Lana?

Is he willing to take a lie detector test

R55- I may be incorrect, but if I remember correctly, no, he refused or wasn't asked to. He refused to speak to the investigators/LEO that very first day. How many other people would have been given that option?

Male white privilege as always

if Elizabeth Taylor wouldn't , Natalie Wood

R58- Giggle. 🤭

Yes, I do

Well there's a case for Natalie Wood being reponisble for Natalie Wood's death, as in " you don't invite your hookup on a boating trip on a foul weathered weekend with your husband, and stuff them with booze and quaaludes, especially if you can't swim " . That being said, RJ was the captain, so whatever happened, even without the foul play, which we know occured, he is responisble. "responisble " is a keeper btw. Thanks for that one ,OP

He never said he knew she fell in and drunkenly mocked her.

Natasha Gregson's father, director Richard Gregson, did an article about coming to the US for Natalie's funeral and to support the family. He took Natasha to see Natalie's body when she insisted. He has nothing but respect for Robert Wagner and thought the best approach was for the family to continue as they had been, with Natasha brought up by Robert Wagner and her sisters (Courtney Wagner and Kate Wagner, who was Robert Wagner's daughter with his second wife).

I think the entire circle knew they all drank and partied too hard and had no problem believing it had happened the way it did. I think they also knew Natalie was comfortable in the cove and with the dinghy so there was nothing "mysterious" about her going out to fix the tie.

Richard Gregson's brother, the delicously handsome Michael Craig (yes, many people are not aware of the connection, Michael's real name is Gregson), wrote in his autobio that it was a stupid accident. He also wrote that Natalie never led a real life, was surrounded at all times with devoted staff ready to do anything for her at the clapping of her hands, and seemed to expect another take when things weren't going at her option. I personally know someone who was close to the Wagners' and actually received a phone call from an understandably devastated RJ on the fateful morning of her death, so Finstead's claim that he didn't communicate with anyone is false

R64, when Natasha Gregson was interviewed by the NY Times - I don't think about Robert Wagner r at that time, she dismissed her Aunt Lana. I think Lana's antics were just old news to her.

And while she spoke of her mother in a loving way she did indicate her mother expected things to go her way and for people to cater to that expectation.

Wagner refused to speak to investigators (I THINK) when the investigation was briefly reopened. It just seemed to me to be a cash grab by the Captain and of course Lana piled on. One comment Lana made was that her sister would never "go out" in just a nightgown and a down jacket - she was Natalie Wood! She dressed to the nines to go to the grocery store! said Lana.

So that's the reaching Lana is doing. She's saying Natalie would have put on full glam before getting out of bed in the middle of the night to re-tie a dinghy and go back to bed, so something doesn't add up cause she was in a nightgown and jacket. And even more unbelievable, she seems to imply Natalie Wood goes to the grocery store.

How would Lana know anything anyway? They were estranged.

R57 there were only white people back then and he is Ukrainian which was not considered white at the time. Walken,wood,and Wagner were all gay.

actresses shouldn't marry composers, it always ends in tears. see also, Farrow/Previn

Natalie Woods’s sister is Jacqueline Bissett?

They had a volatile relationship. She was bi-polar psycho; he was "jealous" bi-polar psycho! Being boozed up, he threw her overboard after a big fight and she drowned. He didn't mean to kill her... but that was the outcome of the fight.

Case closed.

R69 Can we say this also about OJ Simpson and Nicole brown?

We clawed, we chained, our hearts in vain We jumped, never asking why We kissed, I fell under your spell A love no one could deny

Don't you ever say I just walked away I will always want you I can't live a lie, running for my life I will always want you

I came in like a wrecking ball I never hit so hard in love All I wanted was to break your walls All you ever did was wreck me Yeah, you, you wreck me

I think that with RJ and Natalie coming up at the end of the “Old School” Hollywood rules - the actors and actresses weren’t supposed to be photographed smoking or drinking. You don’t know that you are in the middle of a tragedy while it is happening. If they were all that drunk - RJ’s old school discipline would have kicked in - he wouldn’t want the public to know that Natalie was drunk for her own sake as a movie star. He was in the middle of Hart to Hart - in the moment your not thinking someone is going to die - he in that point of the evening is drunk and thinking “Shit - the National Enquirer is going to get pictures of us drunk” A few hours later sobered up hindsight might have kicked in

[quote] he wouldn’t want the public to know that Natalie was drunk for her own sake as a movie star

No, obviously he would prefer the public to know "that he didn't call for help because he thought that she might be on another boat , trying to fuck someone, because , ahem, that's the kind of women she was, she - liked to swish her tail ". Cunt

No, but I suspect Lana was in Dyatlov in February 1959. Check her passport.

r70 I hear you, but laying in wait and plunging a knife into someone is way different than throwing someone overboard during a heated (drunken) altercation.

Oh… w-ow… Where did… Natalie GO?… I think I… heard a splash…

Not old enough to know her other films but love her in West Side Story. To know she had a tragic end breaks my heart

There’s a great short story in the book BETTER DAVIS ANF OTHER STORIES called “Brainstorm” (the title of the movie she was filming with Walken at the time of her death) that takes place on the night Natalie drowned and is told from her perspective. It ends while the foursome is still at the restaurant, before they get back to the yacht.

There’s a part in the story where “Natalie” implies that Walken slept with the actor who played the Cowboy in “The Boys in the Band” which was written by Matt Crowley who is her best friend. In the story, she also tells Mart on the phone (in a flashback) that RJ hit her once.

Did Philip Dean Walker know Mart Crowley, r78, do you know? Is he spilling some tea there?

It’s marketed as fiction, R79, so I really have no idea. However, that seemed like an oddly specific bit of tea.

I do remember hearing that Robert La Tourneaux became an escort after he appeared the the play/film.

In “Brainstorm,” Natalie muses that she believes the rumor because Walken was a method actor and possibly fucked him for research.

Christopher Walken plays a gay character in the new Apple TV show “Severance.”

Do I "personally" think it? No, I professionally think it.

[quote]Of course Kirk was a monster. He lived until a billion years old

I don't understand this comment and I won't respond to it.

Remember when it took Kirk Douglas one hundred years to announce Best Supporting Actress in 2011?

I think Lana's boobs are amazing! And she was really gorgeous. Wow. Why wasn't she a bigger star? Just because she is crazy? She is still working BTW. Married like 6 times, 2 annulments. Often you can tell crazy by how many times someone marries.

R84- Kirk Douglas had TrUmP level narcissism. Sickening.

[quote] Why wasn't she a bigger star?

I dunno. Maybe because she had zero talent to start with, and also, was crazy, had no social skills at all, and her only assets, the boobs, were made of plastic ? Did you even see Lana in her towering achievement, "Plenty O' Toole" ? Now, see, for instance, Leigh, Vivien in "a streetcar named desire" and that might give you a clue as to why miss Lana wasn't a bigger star

I liked Natalie up until the end, even though she was just a little dinghy.

Hell, r87, just compare Lana's acting skills to her sister's. Natalie may not have been a Vivien Leigh level talent, but she could acquit herself extremely well with a good script and the firm guiding hand of a strong director: Rebel Without a Cause, Splendor in the Grass, West Side Story, Love with the Proper Stranger, Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice. Even as a child in movies like Miracle on 34th Street and Tomorrow Is Forever, she had an obvious natural talent. And she had charisma and charm, something that the abrasive Lana severely lacks.

R89 i didn't want to bring that up, to avoid the cohort of "Natalie was a shit actress and her bathtub performance in Splendor in the grass is shit " bitter old queens, but yes, Natalie was a STAR and a fantastic actress, in the right role. Pity she had to be cast as mexican/polish/puerto rican/ black (yes -kings go forth, and she managed to be watchable) etc . you can add THIS PROPERTY IS CONDEMNED to your list. Lana was very good at taking actors' dicks, but that didn't make her an actress.

I still think Lana's boobs are fantastique! If they are fake those giant aereolas are an odd choice.