Should 'femme' only be used in reference to lesbians?

"Femme" is a FRENCH word, not an english word. Femme means BIOLOGICAL woman in french. Lesbians are women in english and femmes in French. Why do Americans use systematically French words to describe themselves? What is the problem you have with your own language? 'Woman' is not enough?

Trans people use that word to erase women. And it's not okay.

Gays are men. Not women. I'm gay and I don't feel like i am a woman, AT ALL.

I say 'delicate' instead of fem or femme when describing a sissy.

It's a bit confusing how you asked one question in the heading and the opposite question in the actual poll.

But I’m a alpha top

True R4. But will it yield the same results?

R3 how do you define a sissy?

OP before you post your next stupid pointless poll, please take a moment and don't.

Earlier I saw a thread that said "girly gay" I think it fits better than fem or femme.

R6 They scream when they see a bug. In the woods. While on a nature walk. Funny, endearing things like that.

Femme? No. Even fem seems inappropriate for men, even ladylike men. But fem is better than femme. That's my answer. Femme really is the french word for adult female humans. It's for people with vagina, ovaries, uterus, clitoris, periods, pregnancies, menapause. Those kinda ppl. Ppl like Moi.

This issue isn't about can or can't: it's about should or shouldn't. For one thing it's confusing outside our sphere, which isolates and alienates LGB people more. Do what you want. Nothing else matters, right? How women feel doesn't matter! Just ask your Dad and Grandpas and brothers. Women should always be a secondary concern for Men, esp. our feelings.

R10 Preaaaach!!!! Thank you!

The question is why some gays would want to be seen as biological women since the word femme designates biological women? There’s something wrong with that. Being gay is being a man who loves men. Not a woman. I don’t understand where this -fem/femme - thing comes from to begin with.

OP, aren’t you a trannie?

R12 I'm not trans, no. I'm a gay bottom. It comes from the fact that we all know there are non-masculine gays out there. The question was whether we refer to them using language often associated with lesbians.

R13 Well, when the French biological women see that the anglos Trans are trying to make them disappear with a word in their language, and some gays use the word femme that normally refers to them only, can you imagine how they feel?

R10 is right. A gay is not a woman. She has her period, ovaries, a uterus, menopause, giving birth etc. All those things that we will never experience as gay, non-masculine or not.

As far as lesbians are concerned, I’m sorry, they’re still biological women, not men. Thet also have period, ovaries, menopause, etc Masculine Lesbians are not using "man" or 'homme' they say Buch.

^They

You mean should it be used in reference to "men"?

Or are you one of those "there are men and then there are 'gays'" trolls?

R14, words can have multiple meanings. Just because “femme” could mean “woman” in a movie title like “La Femme Nikita” doesn’t mean it can’t also refer to a gay man with some feminine traits. It actually already does mean this, and has for a long time.

There are a lot of same spelling homonyms. If you let someone go from a job you aren’t literally setting him on fire.

R17 Sorry, but you are no one to redefine the French words. There are not many ways in France to designate the female sex. Femme also means "wife" in France. All this remains feminine. I do not know which La femme Nikita you are talking about. But if this is a tv show that remakes the film Nikita, this film is French so... It is still unbelievable that english speakers want to use words that are not theirs and decide the meaning. That sounds like American imperialism.

Femme never meant to say gay. In France, gays don't even use this word when, they, unlike english speakers, could.

I remind you that woman is the english word so why using french???

R17 Oh and I forgot to say that 'La femme Nikita' means 'Nikita, the woman'. So I don't get what you are trying to say.

R19, the word “effeminate” used to describe a man with feminine traits has been in the English language since shortly after the 11th century Norman conquest of England, when Old English merged with French to become Middle English, which after the year 1400 became Modern English.

English includes French words by its history while still being a distinct language. Femme as an English word is generally understood to have many meanings.

R20 I know the history between England and France. I'm very familiar with it, but the word effeminate did not enter the English language in the XI century since it did not exist in the XI century in the French language. Moreover, in the 11th century only the monarchy spoke French, not the people. Anglos regularly use the French language, as if there had not been a 1,000-year gap between William the Conqueror and 2022.

For example, the French also had an English king, despite the fact that the Anglos tend to forget that, and the French never integrated English words into their language. They started including some engllish words only in the XX century, and only in the professional world especially computer scientists. English speakers use William the conqueror as an excuse to explain why they keep adding til today a LOT of french words. This is just a pretext. Sometimes I really think they are jealous of French language. Anyway, "Femme" was not one of the french words the English. "Woman" was enough. Some idiots started adding Femme recently.

To me, you can’t justify why you’re using someone else’s language by using a History that’s over 1,000 years old, in 2022, that’s bullshit. Especially when you take in modern French that has nothing to do with French language from 1000 years ago. I think that imperialism has a lot to do with this and that anglos tend to envy the French language.

R20 And you can’t in any way take other people’s words and change the meaning of them like this is the case with Femme Gay. It means absolutely nothing in French and it is even contradictory. The language of others has a history, an identity, a heritage, a culture. Not respecting the language of others is abject. And it doesn’t exist anywhere else. Only the Americans do that.

I’m sorry, because I was a little long in my comment. I wanted to be clearer.

R22, “effeminate” was in late Middle English with a Latin origin. It can be traced back to the Latin word femina, which also is the origin of the French word femme.

When you’re talking about appropriation, the Norman French established themselves as the ruling class of England after conquering England and it was through this act of conquest that the French language, which is a Latin-origin language, merged with Old English, which is similar to modern Icelandic. Speakers of Old English would not recognize today’s English- the language was drastically changed from being merged with French.

Which is more appropriation, conquering and taking over a country, or adopting and changing a word to have a different meaning in your own country than in the word’s country of origin?

R73 The French language is not a Latin language. There is Latin in it. It is not the same thing. The French language is Celtic, Latin, Greek, German. That’s the French language. The Romans passed through France so they left traces. I repeat, the French did not use the word effeminate in the 11th century. And femina is not Femme. IIf you think it's only Latin, In that case you can go and use the Latin language instead of plundering the French language. I also repeat that when the English conquered France, the French did not add English words in the French words. It is cowardice to speak of William the Conqueror who certainly did not speak today’s french, the modern french. And I repeat that French there was only spoken in the monarchy.

When you talk about conquering, every time like the English, who have Alzheimer’s, you forget that the English have also conquered France. It’s crazy how you can be a victim of something that happened 1,000 years ago. The French do think that way and do not feel the need to plunder in the English language, much less the need to change the meaning.

I told you it's a pretext. You all are not living in France ans French people do not invaded America. Just stop, it's ridiculous. Oh and English is a Saxon and German manguage. So why don't you all take after their words?

^and

^^language (damnit)

There are plenty of French words of English origin.

The Normans were partly Gallo-Roman in origin - like many other people, they had once been part of the Roman Empire, thus the Latin influence on the language, which also influenced Italian and Spanish.

“Effeminate” was always a slur, and femme was adopted by gay men for meaning the same thing but not being a slur.

Vivian Vance

What’s wrong with nelly?

I prefer soft butch.

What’s up with this loser that keeps going on about France lol. Gross in French means fat, gross in English means disgusting. They have different meanings but are obviously linked in their derivation - same with femme / femme.

Some gay self describing a facet of their personhood as ‘femme’ isn’t destroying French womens marriages in France in some butterfly effect situation, how fucking stupid do you have to be to fixate on that?

Effem should replace femme when referring to previous gay males.

This is why we hate us.

R29 nelly is great and probably a better word. But fem (or femme) is what has been used by the gay community in the Anglosphere (UK, US, Australia/NZ, Canada etc) for many decades, going back to the 30's or probably even earlier. Just look on Grindr, fem is pretty universally used as a shorthand for the more delicate, dainty sissy type that I like, not nelly. You never see "no nellies, fats or Asians" on the apps like Grindr - its always "no fems,fats or Asians" Not that either should be used.

English is like that. It uses words from all over the place and appropriates them. Like entrepreneur (French) or kindergarten (German) or tsunami (Japanese). And always has done. Its an organic process not under anyone's control

Can we not a call gay man “queen” since he’s not a female monarch?

I Have always and will continue to use whatever words/terms/whatever the fuck I want.

I am a child of the world, not a specific culture and will use and appreciate (it's NOT appropriate) words, sayings, even a Goddam fucking Kimono if I want to.

Go police your own mouth and thoughts.

This is approximately as dumb as asking if we should no longer refer to butch lesbians as 'butch.'

R27 Except that FEMME doesn’t mean the same thing than effeminate at all. You can unleash all the links you want, I know what I’m talking about. The Scandinavians don’t have a Latin language at all. And the Romans didn’t even have time to influence them. FEMME is the human BIOGICALLY born with a vagina, ovaries, uterus. And don’t tell me that gays have always used "FEMME" is completely false. It is really strange that some of you all allow yourself to steal a language that is not yours. You talk about the Normands. They only stayed in England for 21 years. Not enough to influence the simple people who, once again, did not speak old French, which again does not resemble to modern French.

Moreover, as far as I know, you are not English but American. No Vikings, no French in your everyday life. Again, these are pretexts and jealousy. Betraying women is despicable. Women were our first allies. And because French women seem faraway enough from your imperialist country, you think that French women agree with what you do with the word that is designated for them? LOL despicable. In your link If you had taken the time to read it, you would have realized that there are 80,000 words of French origin in the English language, but, what surprises linguists is that americans keep taking words even more today than in the past while you Americans, have nothing to do with France and you all live far away from Europe. You are supposed to add Spanish words because you are surrounded by countries that speak Spanish and there are many Spanish in the USA who were there before you in some states. You take in the French language without any real reason. That is why the French academy (l'académie française) now recence the words you add. But if you institutionalize the word femme in front of the word gay, they have a legaly the right to tell you to stop. That’s why big mouths like you make me laugh. This imperialism that thinks it has all the rights without knowing them legally is super funny. It is indeed a complex of inferiority since you reject the term "girly gay" or the word "woman" to go looking for a french word.

Anyway, I'm not a woman or femme/fem, I'm gay, and that's enough for me.

R331 Lol it's GrossE and the 2 words have zero connexion. You're welcome psycho stalker.

R34 No, the word "femme" was added recently and not by the English or Australian, or Canadians but by the Americans. Fem is not Femme and it's not effeminate either. "Fem" as some says doesn't mean anything in French.

Yep, I know, but It is normal that you use German words since English is a Germanic language. I notice that nobody never answered this question: why don’t you use German words as you do for French words? That would make a lot more sense. Never someone honest enough to answer that.

R37 No it's not the same at all. Butch is not french or german etc. And Butch doesn't mean biological men. Femme means biological woman.

R36 And the french have legally the right to shut your big mouths if they think you are using THEIR words to change the meaning of it which is the case here.

If they do that, they'll win and all you will do is stfu.

Lick my balls, R42 or should I say lécher mes noix

Ok, i'm done with this discussion because the smartest persons are not here anymore. Only an imperialist American who thinks he has all the rights to do whatever he wants with others cultures.

R43 It's "suces ma mes couilles" espèce de fils de pute. Bye ignorant.

Fake "french" troll, trolling about phony "appropriation"' yet again?

I had always assumed the gay use of "fem" denoted a person acting feminine (an English word we actually use) or bearing feminine traits, whether male or female biologically.

R38, the reason English has 80,000 words influenced by French is actually because of the Norman Invasion of the 11th century. There is a lot of scholarship to back it up; you will see it if you do a Google search. It’s not because of a large scale recent appropriation of language.

Also unless someone is using a slur, trying to insult a group, there is no point in policing language. “Effeminate” was used as a slur / and “femme” is not a slur. Even “Nelly” is dictionary-defined as “a silly person” so it’s a slur as well, albeit a minor one. “Femme” and “fem” are used interchangeably- most people who argue online that gay men shouldn’t use the terms say it about both “fem” and “femme”.

Your aggression about the use of “femme” makes no sense. No one is using it to make fun of French women. It has a non aggressive adjectival use which to remove would hurt feminine gay men, because there is no non-slur word in English that has exactly the same meaning.

R45 You spend your time following the threads in which I commet like a perfect psychopath. As if you were going to silence me. You can always dream. You do not impress me, on the contrary, I pity you, because you have no personality.

Hahaha you can't even speak French but you allow yourself to be awful and super sure of yourself. It makes me laugh at this assurance coming from people who are not even francophone. Femme is used only for BIOLOGICAL women. Not for men, not for gays. French gays don’t allow themselves to add 'femme' because they have respect for the women who have been their allies. And it's total strangers who would like to decide for them? And when you are told that you are imperialists, you do not understand.

R45 I won't even lose my time reading your ignorance. If you had read above i already answered to the "Normand" pretext that is not valable. When you'll get that Americans DON'T have English History, you'll start becoming smart.

I'm out. Bye bye imperialism mother fucker Stalker.

^I comment

À La bonne femme!

Some of my favorite recipes are so denoted!

But the rule is don't eat them without the "à" in any month that has a vowel in it.

R46 Oh and I'm blocking you. I hate stalker and you are the dumbest stalker ever.

Adding femme to gay is offensive to the biological french women. YOUR culture is not French culture. It's not for you to decide what is offensive to them. Because the Trannies are erasing women, they absolutely can sue you. and I hope they will because you are totally sick.

Sorry French folk language is alive yell at clouds if you want. I like the term hyper femme to describe super controlling women or too female an interior design aesthetic or object like Rococo furniture.

Blister in the Sun

I am a butch GAY FEMME-BOT

Femme used by gays is simply a misspelling/misunderstanding.

Isn't it usually pronounced "femmy"? Meaning "effeminate" or "feminine"?

In other words, it's fake frenchy's lack of understanding American slang that is the issue. And most Americans simply spelling things wrong and not understanding what their slang originally derived from.

I see that the stalker keeps commenting but this time I can't see his retarded comments. How peaceful ! The pretext of the Normans is not only totally stupid when it comes from Americans who have NOT lived this period of European history 1000 years ago, in addition I have the impression that a certain psychopath here still does not understand that the old French is not modern French. Yet Americans constantly allow themselves to add MODERN French words, A LOT, much more than the English have.

Why the Normans pretext is stupid, because the French did not add English words in their language after the English invaded France and governed them. That is why I said that "the Normans" is a pitiful excuse. English language has Saxon and Germanic roots. It’s still very strange that it’s not in Saxon or German that you’re going to take words... Really strange!

R56, the Norman rule of England lasted for 300 years. So when you say “they only stayed in England for 21 years” it’s hard to say where you got that information.

Whatever this is really about to you, it’s not language appropriation, so what is it really?

A Google search of “French women offended at American gay men using the word “femme” comes up with zero results.