What are the best and worst things about living in Germany?

Nazis.

Kinky sluts.

You choose which is which.

The language is hard to master.

German culture is obsessional and ordered. So that makes both the best and the worst things.

There are so many videos about this on YouTube. Watch a couple and you'll quickly get an overall impression of the differences.

Paprika flavored Potato chips (the worst)

Germans on the moral high horse (unbearable)

Gleichschaltung (they say it’s a Nazi concept but they do it all the time)

A deep appreciation for arts and science (the best)

Best- strudel

worst - German Gay Guy

American Reality shows dubbed in German

The Golden Girls dubbed in German

Married with Children dubbed in German

Berghain!

Sauerkraut. Scat porn.

Best - lots of vacation time, workers' rights are far better than the US

Worst - the food, the shelf toilets, uptight and humorless Germans (not all of them, but the stereotype exists for a reason)

Best: the word Backpfeifengesicht.

Really good public transport in the cities, Berlin especially.

Expect to get told off all the time. Good reason not learn German!

Aldi and Lidl make shopping bearable. Especially the croissants.

Good weather only half the year. But beautiful when it is good.

Dullish modern cities thanks to Bomber Harris.

Open, non-puritanical society.

The fact that every German brain is hardwired for ORDER and IDEOLOGY.

e.g. You can't even have discussion about architecture in Germany without addressing ideology.

The Germans that bang on about fascism are the worst and most hard-wired of all.

Exhausting.

On the plus side, the entire Romanticism of Germany is a thing beyond beyond. By way of constrast: America only has puddle-deep sentimentality.

R4? How the fuck could you watch that? I was bored senseless and I was stationed in Germany!

I am an American with a house in the north of Germany.

Best: German transportation system. U-Bahn, Autobahn, Deutschebahn, they are all great.

Worst: German transportation system. The number of times that I have had to take a train 45 minutes south in order to go 45 minutes north is ridiculous. Of course, since the German city transportation system is so good, one really can't drive east to pick up the correct train as there is no long term parking near the station.

Best: German Healthcare system. Great basic care. Preventative, alternative, and therapeutic options are readily available. A friend injured himself recently. The crutches were $35.00 US. The boot was about the same price. No charge from the Red Cross of the on site at the time of the accident care.

Worst: German Healthcare system: Basically, the downside is pretty much what one experiences in The USA, though while the wait times to see a doctor are frustrating, they are not as long as in the USA. The German bureaucracy does rear its ugly head more often than I would like.

Basically, you get the idea. There are downsides and advantages to everything.

[quote] Open, non-puritanical society.

Not true, particularly if you get out of the big cities. Remember the Lutheran minister who was reprimanded for participating in an interfaith service after the Sandy Hook massacre? That is the form of Lutheranism that is practiced in much of Germany. There is definitely a "puritan" element. Also, a great deal of southern Germany is Catholic, with all the baggage that entails regarding gays, women, etc.

[quote]Worst - the food, the shelf toilets, uptight and humorless Germans (not all of them, but the stereotype exists for a reason)

The food is excellent. OK, not the typical German food, but the produce and breads are wonderful. Even the eggs taste better. (Yes, I know they feed the chickens marigolds to get the darker yolks.) The meats, which are generally not factory farmed and fed antibiotics and hormones are also more flavorful.

Shelf toilets? Are you posting from 1980?

Germans have a great sense of humor, but their language/ word order requires it to be different. A typical joke would fail in German as the punchline would be before the verb.

[quote] The fact that every German brain is hardwired for ORDER and IDEOLOGY.

Personally, I think Germans have to correct balance between Americans and their lack of order and flabby ideology and the Finns who make the Germans look like messy toddlers. Sorry, but I appreciate how order in Germany improves my quality of life. Not hearing lawn mowers and power tools on a Sunday is actually quite wonderful. The recycling (for a home owner) is very rigid, but once you get the hang of it, it becomes routine and rather therapeutic.

After seeing the chaos of American society on a daily basis, (people dumping trash wherever they feel like it, shitty to non-existent public transit, homeless people everywhere doing anything they feel like), the regimentation of Germany sounds quite appealing.

EVERYTHING, absolutely EVERYTHING is closed on Sundays, every sunday. And everything, i mean it

[quote]The food is excellent. OK, not the typical German food, but the produce and breads are wonderful. Even the eggs taste better. (Yes, I know they feed the chickens marigolds to get the darker yolks.) The meats, which are generally not factory farmed and fed antibiotics and hormones are also more flavorful.

I lived in Germany for 8 years. 95% of the food sucked or was average at best. Recently I have spent 3 months in Colombia. Now there is a country with absolutely incredible fresh produce, and tons of variety that you couldn't dream of getting in central Europe.

[quote]Shelf toilets? Are you posting from 1980?

No, I lived there from 2001-2009 and shelf toilets were the norm in Berlin. Have they finally done away with them?

R18, you exaggerate. Museums are open in Sunday. Some restaurants are open on Sunday. Actually, I miss the Federal half day closing law

R19, but how old were the toilets? I don’t know of anyone who checks his bowel movements except those that go to an anthroposophical doctor. Increasingly, I see typical toilets used. I renovated my house in Germany shortly after The Wall fell. Then, only shelf toilets were available. I recently redid a bathroom and there were several shelf less toilet options.

I have not been to Columbia, but compared to typical US food, German food is miles better.

Federal half day closing law for Saturdays. It is now up to the states.

Why bother moving there? Stay where you are. History tells us that, given time, Germany will visit you.

No shopping (including grocery shopping) on Sundays or public holidays, which is especially irritating during long weekends like Easter and Christmas. Florists and bakeries may open in the morning on Sundays, and grocery stores in major train stations and airports can open. I used to live near a station in Berlin with a grocery store, but the local gov’t decided it wasn’t a “major” station and forced them to close on Sundays. Another grocery store could open 24 hrs from Mon-Sat but had to close on Sundays. By

On five or six Sundays a year (‘Verkaufsoffener Sonntag”) stores may open in the afternoon, but many don’t. Opening hours are the worst in Bavaria (Munich), shops close by 8pm. Neighboring countries (France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Czechia) have joined us in the 21st century by allowing people to buy food on Sunday, but Germany/Austria/Switzerland repeatedly refuse to do this. People I knew in Germany insisted prices would go up and society would collapse if stores opened on Sunday.

No air conditioning anywhere except museums, airports and some hospitals. It’s dreadful as more and longer heatwaves come every summer, it’s impossible to sleep at night. Of course Germans I knew insisted a/c was evil and made you sick.

The best things about Germany are the art collections and music/opera scene. Not sure why you’d bother otherwise.

[quote] No air conditioning anywhere except museums, airports and some hospitals. It’s dreadful as more and longer heatwaves come every summer, it’s impossible to sleep at night. Of course Germans I knew insisted a/c was evil and made you sick.

They also love to open windows when it's freezing cold out to get "fresh air." Which is fine and understandable for a few minutes...but these assholes in my office would open ALL the windows and leave them open while arctic blasts of air swept through the office.

Yes, it's absurd that supermarkets still can't open on Sundays. And if you are hungover and need pain pills, good luck hunting for an apotheke with Sunday hours that won't require a trek to the train station.

[quote] Paprika flavored Potato chips (the worst)

They are actually the best.

Lived in Germany for thirty years. This is what I miss: The green country side, my family, typical German breakfast, good quality ingredients, good condition of roads and other infrastructure. The political engagement of the people: People usually go out and vote (on Sundays, not workdays), and they're all up in the government's business. All forms of government are under constant scrutiny by everyone. People with my sense of humor. The health care system.

Things I still don't miss: There is always a tendency that everything is a problem, big or small. Everything is checked against society standards. You are only allowed to appreciate things after careful consideration that it doesn't impact your neighbors, workforce and the environment. Although - when I go back for visits, I feel people have learned to relax and enjoy themselves some more in the last twenty years.

About closed businesses on weekends: I'm ambiguous about this. It feels backwards to close stores on weekends. But I kinda appreciate when an entire country slows down and people refocus there brains on one day every week.

Ingredients are better in many European countries than in USA. What the culture does with such ingredients is another matter. Also, industrial frankenfood has made inroads in Europe, because poor people need cheap food. So while a local German egg is terrific, the industrial one produced on an immense facility in whatever European country decides to have an egg industry, is going to be less terrific. Traditional German dishes made with high quality German ingredients are tasty and seem healthy. I love the breakfast food in the north - all the creamed cold salads and delicious bread.

[quote]About closed businesses on weekends: I'm ambiguous about this.

Ach, du Liebe. . . .

You snotty Americans and your attitude toward German toilets. American toilets, where you can see the legs and hear everything, are disgusting. Pfffrrrrrrooooooo-shpalt. And American one-layer toilet paper sucks , you might as well wipe with your bare hand.

the open toilet design means that the toilet area can be cleaned more easily. and single-ply toilet paper you can double up easily. and multi-ply paper is easy to find. what is your damage?

German Bread - the best

German Butter - delicious

German beer - so much better than that disgustingly soapy and bitter pale ale microbrewery shit ("with raspberry notes") that Americans cult down. Es lebe das Reinheitsgebot!

^gulp down

Single ply toilet paper always rips off to early when you are trying to roll it off, R29. And American toilets rarely get cleaned.

I think it’s nice that everything is shut down on Sundays. One day to all collectively shut down.

Best: Currywurst

Worst: Schlager music

Maybe GermanGayGuy will reply. Pittsburgh sounds like a German city.

35 replies and no uncut German Schwang as one of the country’s best features.

yeah, the pop music is simply the worst ever

The worst thing is that they could not fight harder instead of letting their country be destroyed and enslaved by the usury banking satanists of USA/UK in 1945.

Pro-nazi, anti-Semitic posting on a Saturday morning isn’t a good look even if you’re satirizing another poster, r38.

According to DNA analysis the true Semitics are the Palestine people, NOT the false 'Jews' of Khazar/Turk origin who call themselves Semites.

OP, why do you consider moving to Germany? Is it for a new job? For the love of your life? Fleeing from Trump-USA (assuming you are US-American)?

Of all the places Americans tend to want to move, Germany should be last on their list. I’m typing this from Munich! It is not easy for Americans here unless you enjoy outdoor activities and drinking in public. The quality of healthcare and public transportation are seriously overrated, and the people are frustrating (putting it kindly).

The only benefits I see in my day-to-day life is the scenery and relative safety. But while I feel like I had a life in the US, I merely exist here…and it isn’t fun.

[quote] Ingredients are better in many European countries than in USA. What the culture does with such ingredients is another matter.

This gave me a good chuckle.

R42, why are you in Germany? Are you fluent in German?

I spent six months teaching English in Kassel (Hessen) some years ago. My advice is to NOT live in a mid-sized town like Kassel or Karlsruhe. They are duller than watching paint dry, there is nothing to do on the weekend apart from some mediocre bars, everywhere but the kebab shop shuts on a Sunday, and the people can have very limited outlooks on life (my students: "Once I rode 200km on my bicycle. That was a great day").

However, big German cities: Berlin, Hamburg, Munich or Cologne, for example, are great: lots to do, art, culture, music etc, they can be relatively cheap to live and salaries are good, and there are cheap classes to learn German in. Germany is probably underappreciated as a tourist destination too: some parts are absolutely stunning. I took a train ride up the Rhineland gorge from Karlsruhe to Cologne on a rainy day in November once and it was still absolutely beautiful: fairytale castles at every corner. Just choose where you live carefully.

How are the rents / housing costs in places like Berlin? I heard it's pretty reasonable.

How hard is it to learn German for an American English speaker? I've taken 3 different languages in HS / college, but not German. I'm not fluent in anything exc. English.

R46, There are four stages to learning German in Germany:

We appreciate that you are trying, but I can speak English.

Let me correct you…, correct you…, correct…,correct…, …

Learn the fucking language already.

Your German is really good, but you sound Japanese

Agree with everything R45 said.

The regimentation, nitpickiness, and the lack of humor among some Germans is a downside.

Get used to everything closed on Sundays.

Brown, rough, recycled toilet paper.

No nukes.

[quote]German culture is obsessional and ordered. So that makes both the best and the worst things.

That's it in a nutshell for me. I used to half admire the orderliness because once a small rule is mastered once, it's mastered for life. The quickness to call out anyone who deviates from the queue, the order, the rules of things, you can see it as a learning process, just as my ever on edge German teacher from 9th grade would explode every few days that 'German is a perfectly logical language. That is why the rules, to explain the logic of why something is always correct when it follows the rules, the many exceptions to which are all logical, no matter how much they are not.' This confusion that logic and correctness always align in harmony is the trying part. One can get used to being told off, corrected, set right because it's a learning process -- unfortunately it's also an opportunity to scold and expound on why one is wrong.

Germans are the opposite of Italians who have an every man for himself attitude and who are queue and rule averse, and who derive no pleasure from correcting a foreigner, they just elbow past him. They are the fully developed expression of what some Brits have in half: a lot of rules that are not immediately evidently that they will let you know, loudly, if you break, but not with word s but with their scoldy looks and dagger eyes and little tsks.

Now, though, I've lived long enough in Southern Europe that I think the obsession with order would be constant source of frustration. The correcting and scolding would beat me down in its misery and joylessness, the inability to forge a solution where everyone is in the end happy or happy enough, where the way you treat people is more important than whether they follow some implicit rule not obvious to an outsider.

Close talking and insufficient deodorant practices are a lethal combination.

R46 Berlin housing was once cheap, in relative terms. But costs are way up, especially if you buy.

Too close to Russia.

Thank you R9! That sauerkraut is simply the worst! Putreficacio!

Because I suspect I am not the only one who was wondering

Yeah, the poo shelf is common in Northern Europe.

We have been in Germany only a couple of times, just passing through on the way to other places and never for more than an hour or so. And once with our last husband in berlin for a couple of days. We never had any urge to return there.

We recall having a very bad feeling immediately, that we were not in Europe but in the USA.

Which makes sense since Germany has ceased being a nation in 1945, being ever since then an occupied territory under the control of the international bankers and policed by the American army.

Good Bread, Sausage and suppressed passive aggressive sensitivity. That Black chick needs to move to Alabama. She is as much a Newyorker as Hitler is Jew. BS.

R45, it doesn’t matter where you live in Germany because you can easily get on a train that takes you anywhere in no time. Just because you’re in Kassel, doesn’t mean you have to spend your weekends crying in front of the Döner shop.

Germany ha da lot to offer in terms of food, culture, architecture, sports, beaches, entertainment, you name it and you will find it. The healthcare system is excellent, unlike ours .

Added bonus, you can get on a plane and be in a different European country for a weekend getaway in 2 hours. What’s not to leave? I’m seriously considering retiring in Germany, unless we have to escape this fanatic shithole country sooner.

Lord, I hate videos like r4 where they soullessly categorize things in numbered points. You never truly learn anything and they're almost always off the mark.

[quote] my ever on edge German teacher from 9th grade would explode every few days that 'German is a perfectly logical language

It's not. It's a mess and I wouldn't want to learn it because if I had to I'd probably top myself.

(FYI Ami DLers: Topping oneself is NOT what you probably think now, you lovely bunch of pervs. :-* )

Not from Germany but from a German-speaking country.

I recommend Amis wanting to come to any German-speaking country to pick up the language at least a bit. You can easily endear yourself to locals since people here will love you for trying to speak German just because they don't expect any English-speaking person speaking anything but English.

The good? Prussian values...

The bad? Prussian values...

The best: die Schwänze (many of them uncut)

The worst: die Schwänze (many of them unprepossessing and rather unsightly)

Do you want to take my virginity, OP?

German 101 for the DL. Please note the changes of the article and of the adjective "schön" connected with the noun. These changes are due to the gender of the noun, the plural ("Eier" being the plural of "Ei" = egg) respectively.

Du hast einen schönen Schwanz. = You have (got) a beautiful cock.

Du hast einen schönen Arsch. = You have (got) a beautiful ass.

Du hast eine schöne Arschritze. = You have (got) a beautiful asscrack.

Du hast ein schönes Arschloch. = You have (got) a beautiful asshole.

Du hast schöne Eier. = You have (got) beautiful balls.

Does "Arschloch" translate to "ass lock" R67?

That would be very German,

Germans are actually lousy at lines. This is a weirdness that I find rather endearing. They will wait patiently at an empty street for the light to turn green, but social norms go out the window when a line is involved.

Agree that paprika flavored potato chips are the absolute worst. Some supermarkets in Germany ONLY carry this variety (not even plain & salted potato chips).

^ Suit yourself. More for me.

Germany built a lot of "projects" after the war, from the rubble. Dorm like brick buildings with 1 or 2 room basic apartments. Unlike American "projects" after WWII, the German projects are often still there and in perfectly upkept condition. Drab, but peaceful and safe feeling. German salaries are actually not high. Except in a few professions. But living costs are low except in the trendiest parts of the most international cities. And the big cities are not all glossy and gentrified - there are vast working class neighborhoods, plain, but without the special desperation and bleakness of other cultures. There will be a good park and a good playing fields and good swimming hall and good transport.

Like Coca-Cola, say, they are an acquired taste. Try different brands; some are less hot. Finally, if no other alternative, just scrub the paprika off each chip with a toothbrush.

I have not been to Germany post-Syrian migration.

How has that altered the overall gestalt (to use a German word) of German cities?

Best: Farfegnugen

Worst: All the men with huge very white fupas who fully shave their public hair.

I liked seeing people drink wine in the parks. Public transportation is wonderful.

Didn't like the graffiti.

Need I say more?

Plus - If you make an appointment, the craftsmen will show up on time and finish the work (usually) on time. The work is high quality and the workers are skilled and professional. Try this in any southern European country. The attitude, tardiness and lack of professionalism will drive you insane.

There is a lot of bureaucracy in Germany and rules for everything. It is very annoying at first, but it actually makes life a lot easier. You usually have to show up in person for a lot of things you could easily do online.

Germany has amazing social security. 6 weeks paid vacation/year, amazing health care and you never have to worry about unemployment or losing your home. Food and rent is still extremely cheap compared to other European countries.

R28 where on earth are you only seeing single ply? The airport? Most homes have cushier stuff. There's a whole industry based on wiping your ass in comfort here.

What the fuck is a toilet shelf???

The best German—unserer Vater Kloppo—isn’t even living or working in the country so why would you bother going there OP?

google is your friend

R80

A shelf in loot where one puts toiletries. Also known as soap shelf.

These comments bring back the memory of my mother's comments about her first trip to Europe when I was around 6 or 7. She described the Italians as warm, effusive, welcoming and flirtatious (mom was quite the hottie back then). The comment "we hope you will love our country" was Italy. By the time they got to Munich it was cold disdain and a curt "YOU WILL LIKE GERMANY" barked at them by surly Germans.

That description always stuck with me. On a personal note, I've met a few Germans who I'd call friendly but the majority of them come across as arrogant with an air of false superiority.

R83, that's a German thing? I see that in every freaking Bed Bath & Beyond flyer.

R85 R83 was pulling your chain.

Forgot to mention this at R48.

In my experience, Austrians are less regimented than their German cousins. They're more laidback in some ways.

Z.B. If you're on a train in Germany and you cannot find your ticket, the conductor/official will stand over you until you find it. His Austrian counterpart will say okay, go on, and then return to you.

[quote] His Austrian counterpart will say okay, go on, and then return to you.

No. Those days are gone, at least when the conductor hasn't got anything better to do.

The guy in r82's link is hung!

Internet connections in Germany are often slow and bad, which is a bit surprising for a modern country

Nah R60, Kassel is at least 3 hrs by train from anywhere busy and fun. If you work a normal Monday to Friday schedule that can make it hard to plan a night out without it turning into a weekend.

Anyway TL:DR Just don't live in Kassel.

Most toilet paper in the US is 2-ply, r28.

[quote]Yes, it's absurd that supermarkets still can't open on Sundays. And if you are hungover and need pain pills, good luck hunting for an apotheke with Sunday hours that won't require a trek to the train station.

Is it not possible to stock up on these ahead of time? I'm asking seriously, because I don't know your situation.

[quote]And American toilets rarely get cleaned.

Now you're just being ridiculous.

So, OP, you got some good information by now. Two things you need to remember when you move to Germany. 1. Don't move to Kassel. 2. Have an emergency stach of Aspirin on weekends.

I went to high school in Germany and found it to be overall a great place.

The northerners are more regimented, by the rules people but very socially liberal The southerners are more easygoing but socially conservative.

They have wonderful art and culture with the average German knowing more about art history etc than Americans but their tastes in pop culture fare is terrible. Alf and David Hasselhof were pop culture icons.

The food was fair. Most families don’t have traditional German food at meals. Most nights it’s cheese and cold cuts on buttered bread. Going out to eat was expensive and rarely did families eat out like in America. Italian is by far the most popular type of restaurant.

It’s changed since I was there but all shops closed at 5 except on Thursdays when they closed at 8. I HATED that.

German is difficult master but anyone can learn enough to get by in six months or so. Everyone speaks English and most younger people prefer to practice their English than stumble through a conversation with you in German. The older people are impressed when you try and I was often complimented on my language skills.

Germans are incredibly kinky.

It's funny that people seem to complain about the Germans' lack of humour who don't even speak the language.I strongly recommend you learn the language if you go here! You will enjoy your time much much more, no matter for how long you end up staying. There are also websites like Tandem that matchmaker between learners of different languages which will help a lot on your path to fluency. Great about Germany: Free university, not great but okay: public transport, also great: the fact thar I can see a doctor any time without having to pay extra. Operas and theaters are subsidized heavily so every town has a variety of cultural life if you sing or can at least read music, join a choir. If you enjoy sport, join a soccer or rowing team. There is plenty to do, depending on where you go. Enjoy your time!

[quote] Alf and David Hasselhof were pop culture icons.

So you were there about 30+ years ago and other than stores staying open on Sundays some, you think nothing has changed?

[bold] Stay gold Datalounge, Stay gold.

Why are you here, r98? Just shitting on other peoples post and feeling good about it? R95 recollected his experience (from the 80s I gather). What's wrong with that? He even gave some advice to have an enjoyable experience for those going to Germany now. And you... just come in and leave turd. Meh.

R99 has feels and is sad.

R98, ALF and Baywatch had both long gone off the air before I ever stepped foot in Germany but they were examples of beloved pop culture figures which had endured much like the Golden Girls here in the States. Many people who watch GG here everyday weren’t even alive when the show was on the air.

I am sorry that Schlager does not get more love here. Ross Antony should be a DL icon.

Oidaaaaaaaa bitte R102.

Spare our Ami friends the fuckwit commonly known as Ross Anthony.

This is not Schlager ; R103, this is a German version of Jerry Herman.

The worst are German ads with these saucy youthful female voices.

R104, read. The channel is Schlager für Alle. The album is Schlager lügen nicht. Your comment is like arguing that since Ross Antony is British his music cannot be schlager.

On another note, image this song reaching number six on any US chart.

I do miss the proper bakeries of Germany and Austria. The US traded real bakeries for Dunkin Donuts (which are sadly cropping up in Europe) and fancy cupcake shops.

I also liked how sales tax (VAT) is included in all displayed prices for food/clothing.

Yes, R107, it is sad that the average bakery in a German train station is 100 times better than the artisanal bakeries in the USA.

True R107, R108. Bread absolutely sucks in the US. They invented Wonderbread, you know. Which is only good for Baloney AKA fingernails, assholes, and shredded chicken babies.

German coffee, too, is so much better than American. One place you can find it here in the US is Aldi. Brand is "Fair Trade German Roasted." Believe it's like, if not is, Jacobs.

Better brands at Enjoybettercoffee.com

I don't agree that Germany has better coffee. There are all kinds of great specialty coffee roasters in the US. Bakeries, sure. I miss those little pretzelbroetchen.

This is an example of Schlager, if I'm not mistaken

Much cuntier than the Dutch.

Is Kerstin Ott still female or is she now a transman?

Best: overall standard of living; public transport and national train network; public TV and radio which, if not great entertainment programming, do provide good news and classical music; virtually no gun violence; great beer and bread; generous maternity/family/sick/annual leave; (still) good network of GPs who don't just dispense prescriptions for big pharma; acceptance that in summer it can be hot (and a good excuse for vacations and beer gardens) without having to cool every space down to frosty temperatures.

Worst: that some of the above is changing. Schlager and Tatort and impolite people are easily avoided/dealt with.

Yes, R112, that's a Schlager. Take note R106.

German/Swiss chocolate is so much better than the machine-oil infused gunk that you call Hershey's.

German chocolate is good. Swiss chocolate is good. There is no such thing as "German/Swiss". Its one or the other.

Suchard Milka is marketed in both countries.

The German people are the worst thing.

Yes but Milka has been German chocolate for 100 years.

The chief flaw in the German character. Obedience. Kurt Vonnegut.

Best— uncut dicks

Worst— can’t speak the language

Best thing:. German men are sexy, no-nonsense, efficient fucks. Example: Dirk Jager.

R109 You'll bless your Wonderbread if you ever have to eat British Chorleywood process bread instead.

As to Germany, in the cities nearly all bakeries and pastry shops (except Turkish ones) now seem to be chain-owned. I can't get excited by them. Onsite-made-from scratch bakeries are really rare, unless you go Turkish.

Smegma, although Germans are cleaner than the French

R108 is full of shit. German bread is generally amazing, but the shit they sell in train stations and chain bakeries is often stale and barely edible.

Artisanal bakeries in the US often make good bread, but the prices are usually outrageous!

Horrible weather, nice for about 3 months per year.

[quote]Dunkin Donuts (which are sadly cropping up in Europe)

When I was in Indonesia about 20 years ago they had dunkin donuts and they were very popular though they had different things that Indonesians ate.

R103 "Oida!" had me laughing out loud. I didn't expect it on the DL!

There are a few other gems about living in Germany that I'm not sure were mentioned: feather beds (Federbetten) and the toilet (die Toilette).

Federbetten are down comforters that are on top of beds (no King or Queen sized beds...double is the norm for couples...twin mattresses). There are sheets on the mattress, but no top sheets. Germans sleep under the comforters (which have covers). I have two for my own bed, but I sleep on top of them and under a top sheet and blanket.

Toilets in Germany have much less water than American toilets and shelves on which you make your deposit. The tank in newer homes and apartments is in the wall. And there are two options for flushing. There's alway a brush to wipe away leftovers or skid marks on the shelves. In older residences the toilet is separate from the tub and sink.

[quote]There's alway a brush to wipe away leftovers or skid marks on the shelves.

Not certain that that is a good selling point.

"No, it's your turn to clean the shelf!"

R132, those brushes are in people's houses, hotels, and what. It's expected that you use it.

Even my job has a reminder for people to use the brush.

[quote]Even my job has a reminder for people to use the brush.

What, Germans miss an opportunity to scold or advise in very stern terms?

Wish I got to taste some German dicks when I was stationed in Germany for two years. I blame don’t ask don’t tell

A friend reminded me of another of another bathroom issue: handheld shower sprays. Nowadays, the bathtub will have a glass screen which covers 1/4 of the tub length, near the faucet. The shower spray will be mounted on a vertical rod halfway the length of the tub. If one tries to use the spray as a conventional shower, the bathroom will be flooded.

Can we move together to Germany OP?

the general lack of clothes dryers in apartments is annoying, if only because I hate the crunchy feeling of towels that are left on a drying rack, though this is a European thing and not limited to Germany.

The deposit (Pfand) system for buying plastic and glass bottles is irritating; you have to collect empty bottles and bring them to the grocery store, stick them in the machine one by one, and then get a receipt with the value to redeem at the register.

The monopoly of pharmacies (Apotheken, which are separate from drug stores) on dispensing medications, even OTC products like tylenol and hydrogen peroxide, is very frustrating. You pay way more for less than you would get in the US because there is no price competition.

Though smoking has declined, you're still likely to deal with cigarette smoke/odors when you go out at night, especially in Berlin.

The cycling infrastructure is generally very good, way better than most of the US, though behind Denmark and the Netherlands.

Muslims and terrorism, which is covered up by the German press.

[quote] Toilets in Germany have much less water than American toilets and shelves on which you make your deposit.

Shelves? On a toilet?

The shelf:

I would think the giant German guys would be a plus.

[quote]I would think the giant German guys would be a plus

Not sure if you mean height but I don't think German men are much taller than Americans

Hello, homos! I am back and I am German!

Welcome back R145, I was genuinely glad to see you are back! I could tell you were scared going into your surgery and trying to mask that with humor. Glad to see it worked out.

[quote] In older residences the toilet is separate from the tub and sink.

What? Are they all combined there now?

That woman in r4’s video loves the attention of being a black woman in a white culture. They don’t have a lot of blacks in Germany.

R137 I’m having trouble figuring out why the screen is only a quarter of the tub. Does no one actually want to stand under the spray and shouldn’t they have thought of that possibility?

R149, my bathroom has a shower, but it also has a bathtub with a shower spray and no curtain (or even the possibility to put one up).

The set-up R137 describes is intended to encourage water conservation. Rather than leaving the water running and standing under it, you’re supposed to use the detached shower wand to get wet…turn off the water and lather up…then use the shower wand to rinse off. Technically, you’re not supposed to leave the shower head mounted and running continuously. However, I’m recognition of modern bathing habits more places in Germany will have the half glass setup if there’s a bathtub.

Also, the whole shelf toilet thing is no longer applicable. Since German toilet bowls don’t fill up with as much water as American toilets, they certainly have a habit of collecting shit on the dry areas. But in several years of living in Germany I’ve never used a toilet with an actual shelf in the bowl.

Mr. PA os has some thoughts. And despite his hyperbole, he makes a lot of good points.

Mr. Panos^^^^

[Quote][R137] I’m having trouble figuring out why the screen is only a quarter of the tub. Does no one actually want to stand under the spray and shouldn’t they have thought of that possibility?

Most modern apartments have a shower and a tub. Most apartments with only a bathtub usually have a shower curtain and the shower spray is up on the wall. It's no different than US showers and you can stand under the spray. You can also remove the shower head from the wall and use it to clean your ass or feet, so that's a plus.

I've never seen a toilet with a shelf. Maybe very old and unrenovated units still have them, but they're clearly not standard in modern apartments and offices.

I saw several shelf toilets when I was there in 2000. Glad to hear they are upgrading.

The worst: too many third world immigrants flooding country.

The best? Getting to be around German Gay Guy.

R153, I mentioned the shower head situation because it is extremely common in modern hotels as a water saving measure. It is probably the most common complaint that I hear from friends visiting Germany. Unless one is staying at an air b&b, one will probably have to navigate the shower head situation.

The shelf toilet used to exist in the Netherlands too, where I am from. We still had a legacy shelf toilet for a while in our house in the 80s, but it was soon replaced. You only see them now in places that haven't been updated for decades.

As for skid marks, my grandma taught me to place a few folded squares of toilet paper on the shelf so that my turd would land on the paper before being swept away, leaving no trace. She didn't have a solution to the stench, though.

Best thing: you don't have to deal with this idiotic AM/PM nonsense that makes calendar entries a nightmare. Four in the afternoon is 16 h. Next Friday (on a Wednesday) means the imminent Friday not the second Friday the week after.

Nude beaches are good. The people are ice cold and cruel.

I find Germans hot, but have looked into German cities to find other things to do other than just fuck. All of the museums seem to revolve around the holocaust. Fuck, can I not see nice things on my vacation,other than asses? What city in Germany has the most things to do?

I am clearly drunk, but don’t want to do Oktoberfest.

R160, Köln has the Cathedral, a great art museum, a Roman museum, an old town, river cruises on the Rhine, the 4711 house, Carnival, and lots of other stuff. Besides Berlin, it probably has the best gay nightlife.

Would a German vacation at Christmas be a horrible idea?

R163, there would be no shortage of things to do, but be prepared to deal with massive crowds.

Best FKK you can sunbathe naked at the park and all sauna are naked.

Worst about 20% of German me shave their pubes all the way and look like demented children as a result.

Worst: German Angst. They freak out about everything, in advance, and forget to live. And they expect everyone to be the same. If not, there is something wrong with you. Socialism, in all its flavors, with or without prefix, was invented by Germans.

The worst thing about Germans is the ugliness.

How real is so-called German efficiency as well? I remember booking a flight to Brandenburg airport in Germany and it being cancelled. Over 10 years later the airport still hadn't been opened. That seems like a joke.

R160, There is a museum in Germany for anything: automobiles, clocks, musical instruments, dolls, folk art, costumes, porcelain, etc. , not to mention hiking, boating, and beaches. If you are serious, post your interests and I will give you some serious answers. (Yes, Octoberfest is hell on earth and is to be avoided.)

R163, Christmas in Germany is not the best idea. As mentioned, terrible crowds. The Christmas Markets are mostly made-in-China crap now. If you don't mind super touristy, Nürnburg or Seiffen. Personally, I preferred Christmas in Salzburg. Christmas in Potsdam might be nice. It is a lovely town. I hated Munich at Christmas, but it is no different than NYC at Christmas. Munich has a Gay Christmas Market and a Medieval Christmas Market. The Medieval on is my favorite.

SERIOUSLY IMPORTANT: book your dinners for Christmas Eve and Christmas Day way in advance. It will be virtually impossible to find a meal on Christmas Eve unless it is a hotel or an Ethnic restaurant. Christmas Eve is the German Christmas. Most restaurants are closed so the staff can have Christmas with family.

R168 - it is a LIE. Or, rather, it absolutely does not apply to transportation. Count on things being at least a little late, EXCEPT when it's a flight or train to which you need to transfer. THAT will be on time so be prepared to sprint :)

Brandenburg is open, but it's a mess. The cancellation thing is not just a German problem, though.

[quote]I find Germans hot, but have looked into German cities to find other things to do other than just fuck. All of the museums seem to revolve around the holocaust. Fuck, can I not see nice things on my vacation,other than asses? What city in Germany has the most things to do

Berlin has plenty of art museums. I was always very fond of the Hamburger Bahnhof, in a renovated old train station. There are nice parks, flea markets, tons of cafes, live theaters.

R170, disagree. The German rail system is generally efficient with one exception. If there is s suicide on the track. You will *not* be told the reason for the delay, but it could be as much as 5 hours.

A friend left his cell phone on a train. Once it was reported, it was sent back on the next train. He just had to meet the train and get it from the engineer. It would have taken a month for him to get his cellphone back in the USA.

I once left a backpack in a Japanese subway. It was a circular line. I was told to wait until the train comes again. It was there.

Apparently, you'll need to burn wood to keep warm this winter in Germany, so...first world problems (lol).

One of the odd, if not worst things about Germany to me is the exceedingly thin men. Nobody else has mentioned it, but many men are thin to the point of looking starved. Florian Silbereisen, Andy Bieber, etc. Uli Scherbel was bulked up when he was in the musicals Joseph and Hair!, but now he looks like he would be invisible if he stood sideways.

Lots and lots of non-Holocaust museums in Berlin. And in summer the small lakes set in woods around the city are beautiful as can be.

Best German museum: the Deutsches Museum in Munich.

[quote]One of the odd, if not worst things about Germany to me is the exceedingly thin men. Nobody else has mentioned it, but many men are thin to the point of looking starved. Florian Silbereisen, Andy Bieber, etc. Uli Scherbel was bulked up when he was in the musicals Joseph and Hair!, but now he looks like he would be invisible if he stood sideways.

That wasn't my experience at all...and it doesn't match up with the statistics which say 2/3 of German men are overweight. Like anywhere else, you can find examples of all body types if you want, but it's hardly the norm to see "starved-looking men" everywhere. I don't know who the hell Andy Bieber or Florian Silbereisen are anyway.

R177, I live in Germany nearly half the year. I have for nearly 25 years. I did not say the majority of men are super thin, but the level of thinness is greater than in the USA. I only see men this thin in the USA at triathlons. Even then, they are not the majority. In the USA, it isn't as common to see a man with 3% body fat and very little muscle mass, who isn't an avid runner.

R172 - at least 75% of the ICE trains I dealt with (most often at FRA or Mannheim) were late from late 2019 to May of this year when I left Germany. Only one was late enough for compensation, tbf. Any of the local trains run by Vlexx were guaranteed to be late, as well.

The three Pinakotheken in Munich are awesome. Go to the Neue Pinakotheken on a Monday morning (when most other museums are closed). You will be alone in front of Manets, van Goghs, Segantibus, Hodlers, Monets etc.

Stylish men in Europe, including Germany, are noticeably thinner than in the US. It's the look, and it's different. And the difference starts in the teens.

they're thinner because they don't work out, it's the same across northern Europe. skinny legs, no pecs, flat asses, clean shaven, and usually cigarette smokers. Feh.

R182, I have really analyzed that. However, in the 1990s, I was driving with my boss at the time, and we passed a new fitness center. She made a comment to the effect that, "People such as us don't go to places such as that." She clearly though it very lower class to go to a gym.

Total disclosure, she was Austrian, came out at the Vienna Opera Ball, and though she was slumming it by working in Germany. Maybe not the best representation of the German view of fitness.

[R182], I have really * not* analyzed that.... ugh!

[Quote]Apparently, you'll need to burn wood to keep warm this winter in Germany, so...first world problems (lol).

Germany has some of the best engineers and scientists on the planet. I actually think this crisis could potentially push innovation and energy independence. Don't underestimate the power of 80 million freezing Germans. They will come up with innovations and concepts no one could have imagined 12 months ago. Just look at Biontech and the mRNA vaccine they developed in record time.

Z is going to come under intense pressure from the Europeans to work something out with Russia by October. That's the best route from Germany's standpoint.

Indeed, from Germany's standpoint what difference does it make if Crimea is formally recognized as part of Russia. In fact it now is. So Germany might make the first opening move towards Russia by recognizing that sovereignty.

[quote] Indeed, from Germany's standpoint what difference does it make if Crimea is formally recognized as part of Russia. In fact it now is. So Germany might make the first opening move towards Russia by recognizing that sovereignty.

This will never happen.

Christmas questioner here. I was already thinking it would be too complicated right now with fuel and transportation issues, not to mention Covid still being hard to plan around. I also hate to lug around cold weather clothes. I do best on spring and fall trips, really.

If Salzburg is better, I wonder if Strasbourg would also be a good alternative? Possibilities in the future.

R188, I have not been to Strasbourg at Christmas, but I have heard good things about it.

best: the way outsiders never get to be included in the real germany

worst: the way outsiders never get to be included in the real germany

best: German beer

extra best: piss sex party with cheerfully piggy germans and beer

worst: diseases

"Just look at Biontech and the mRNA vaccine they developed in record time."

You seem to know little about the history of mRNA vaccines. Kariko, who lives in Philly, was hired by BioNTech but calling this a German technology is an overstatement.

r106, r122

My ears have not recovered from just 5 seconds of listening to each of those.

Can't imagine having to listen to the German language all of the time!

R188 - the Marche de Noel in Strasbourg is quite lovely. The lights at night filled my corpse of a heart with joy!

Colmar, which is about an hour away by train from Strasbourg (or just under an hour drive across the border from Freiburg) is also lovely.

Strasbourg is always a safe bet over Salzburg, unless you’re really a die hard Sound of Music fan

R175/Kaspar-Hauser, I appreciate all your contributions to this thread. I dream about moving to Berlin someday, specifically Kastanienallee in Prenzlauer Berg. I know, it has a reputation for being a tad uppity and trendy but I’d still love it.

Is Florian Silbereisen gay? He is extremely thin. So is that fellow who hosts that morning program on ARD. He’s also attractive but he’s almost painfully thin.

I hope to return to my airbnb near Rosa-Luxemburg-Strasse at New Years. Half serious question-will the Russian energy crisis really fuck things up? The apartment has under floor heating.

never forget or forgive that disallowed Lampsy goal against the Naz!s off the crossy :(

This thread reminds me of something I realized about Germany when I first moved here several years ago:

While the US is bombarded with all kinds of negative stereotypes and press that make it seem worse than it is, Germany is rewarded with positive stereotypes and press that make it seem better than it is.

I was shocked…SHOCKED when I learned the trains don’t run on time, “German efficiency” doesn’t exist, the people aren’t pleasant, cities are dirty, and German cars are shit.

Other than gun violence and bankruptcies resulting from medical treatment, Germany has the same problems as any other western country. It is not Utopia and people who come here under that impression will find it hard to reverse engineer a perception they hold near and dear to their heart.

It is and always has been racist and 100% Nazi. Good times.

If you've been baptized, don't forget the Church Tax.

R196, We have different tastes. You could not pay me to live in Berlin. I prefer to stay in Potsdam and go in to Berlin for the day.

Florian Silbereisen is a very odd one. He has only been linked with women, but the relationships always seem off. He was with Helene Fischer for several years, but, to be honest, that never seemed real.

The heating situation in Germany is an unknown. My advice is go and make the best of it. At the very worst, you will have great stories.

Well numbskulls have confused Germany with Austria and Switzerland. The trains DO run on time in Switzerland and Switzerland is clean.

As a teen in the late 2000s, I went for a few months to Cologne, working and studying there on an exchange.

Everyone seemed moody and sort of generally mildly annoyed by general life. Everyone to whom I spoke--my German has never been great, but it was basically intelligible back then--seemed to have a sigh and an eyeroll for me, whether because I'm English or because they just didn't care about engaging. Communities stuck together and businesses seemed in good nick, and at that time it was fairly clean and felt safe (moreso than British cities), but there was a pervading sense around the place of detachment and boredom and mild anhedonia.

The only time this abated was during Oktoberfest, which was like flipping a switch. Being British I'm used to drunken raucousness and bacchanals, but this was next level. The Germans seem to pen up all their joi-de-vivre and libido, so that during October (and during big football tournaments) they may unleash it. The people were so lovely during those nights, though, and once again as a girl out on my own I never felt unsafe--sadly, it seems the situation is quite different, now.

OT but this trip was also the first time that someone ever came out to me. Another teen girl I was staying with in a hostel room went out drinking with me one night, and on the banks of the Rhine where we were both getting tipsy, she sobbingly told me she was a lesbian. I gave her long hug and told her it was ok. I wasn't out or even thinking about my sexuality at the time (very late bloomer), but I sometimes wonder if that girl worked out before I did that I was gay, too. We lost touch long ago, and I have no idea where she is or what she's doing now.

R203, my observation is a bit similar maybe. I like Germany, there are many admirable things about Germans, but the weltschmerz thing... I don't think I could be happy living there for any length of time, not in a place where the collective mood is a weary sigh of, "This is it. There is nothing more. This is all there is."

The range of pleasure extends from miserable to perfunctory/not miserable and not much beyond.

No one is forcing you to subscribe to the collective mood, your life is what you make of it. Germans who are into pleasure get plenty of it, same as Americans or whoever else. Ring people up and get loaded up three times a day, and weltschmerz will quickly melt away.

Weltschmerz aka Melancholie or mild depression is fine but it’s the German Angst and the unabashed Neid (envy) that makes them often unbearable.

Germans are not all that different from your average third or fourth generation person from New England. Yes, they find the perpetually smiling, happy, helpful American to be the village idiot. So do lifelong New Englanders. Yes, it is very difficult to become part of a community or a circle of friends. Same with New England. It is up to you to prove that you have substance and staying. power. You have to earn it. You are not entitled to it.

[quote] it's the unabashed Neid that makes them often unbearable.

R206 um wie bitte Silvia is wonderful and has nothing to be humble about!

I had an awful time getting back to Amsterdam from Cologne a few years ago, train was due to depart at 7:30 pm and we waited until midnight. Someone told me the problem with intercity trains is the freight and passenger trains all run on the same track.

R203, people in Cologne suck, they're always grumpy --- and not grumpy in a rather hilarious way like people in Vienna are. Viennese grumpiness is notorious, but it's a funny one once you get the special kind of Austrian humour (sarcastic, full of irony and wit, self-deprecating, not taking themselves too seriously).

Living in Cologne must be pure hell, particularly in carnival season.

The Angel Christmas Market in Cologne is fun. I went back there last December after two years and surprised they weren’t checking CovPass QR codes.

R201/Kaspar-Hauser, thanks for responding.

In October 2019 I went all over Germany-

Munich-beautiful city and the Oktoberfest atmosphere was fabulous. I fell in love with the Viktualien Market. But there was a distinct coldness about the people which I found intimidating. Made day trip down to Salzburg which was lovely but it was pounding down rain most of the time. Also day trip to Garmisch Partenkirchen which had gorgeous vistas of the Alps but that was about it. Sort of a depressing ambience to it.

Hamburg-it was just OK. Again, there was a coldness about the people (except for the sweet little girl who said “Moin, moin! to me on a train). Made day trips to Schwerin (pretty but dull) and Bremen (surprisingly and pleasantly “chill”).

Cologne-As I posted above the Angel Christmas Market is fun. It’s a tad too oppressively crowded in the city center, though.

Berlin-by far my favorite. Several cities in one. As I posted above I fell in love with Prenzlauer Berg. Potsdam is nice but not somewhere I feel I need to stay in for any length of time. Made day trips to Dresden ( pretty but rather self-consciously cutesy and artificial looking-yes, I know it had to be totally rebuilt after WWII) and Leipzig (liked it a lot, it’s an intriguing city with a lot of beautiful historical sites).

I’ve been to Berlin three times since 2018. It might not be for everyone but it ticks a lot of boxes for me in terms of being a liveable city (I’ve lived in NYC since 1978). Great local transport and affordable food. The people can be a mixed bag but they did seem to appreciate my efforts at placing orders in German. And then there’s that under floor heating at my airbnb near Alexanderplatz, heh heh.

R196, are you implying that you had wild gay sex orgies on that floor near Alexanderplatz?

R213, haha…no. The under floor heating is just something I’d heard of but never experienced. The apartment’s really nice and good value for money.

I was there for a week, from right after Christmas to right after New Years. I waited on line to get into a sauna in Kreuzberg but left-I hadn’t realized they’d need a negative Covid result from the past 24 hours. I had to produce a negative Covid result to go see a production of Fiddler on the Roof so should have used that to get in the sauna. The sauna there is extremely popular but just OK. The sauna I went to in Munich was incredible-I think it’s inside a hotel in the center of the city. It was amazingly well run. The saunas I went to in Hamburg and Cologne were awful.

R196, that is why I wrote that we have different tastes, not that one is right and one is wrong. You made an aside about Fiddler on the Roof in a paragraph about saunas. If that was the Komische Oper Berlin production, I would have written three paragraphs about that.

Also, we have different biographies. I first went to Berlin when it was a city divided, and the west was basically an enormous "Fuck You!" to the east. I also remember the transitional years of the 1990. I bring that history with me whenever I go to Berlin. I love the Komische Oper Berlin, Bar Jeder Vernunft, KaDeWe, and all the museums, but I have no desire to live there. On the other hand, I owned a place in the Holländisches Viertel, Potsdam for 20 years. I loved the park,Alexandrowka, and the winding paths of Park Babelsberg.

Not sure why you would have made day trips (plural) to Schwerin. Once you have seen the palace and Freilichtmuseum Schwerin-Mueß, you have pretty much seen it all.

I agree about Garmisch Partenkirchen. It was an American military town after the war and still has a US military base nearby. Even for winter sports, I think there are much better options. However, don't discount the Tyrol if you enjoy the outdoors. It is absolutely gorgeous and can be very romantic with the right person.

I have to say that I do not feel the German coldness to the extent that others do. Ever since I was a child, it has been remarked that I am very good with children and animals, because I let them come to me rather than put my face in their face and try to force engagement. Perhaps that applies to Germans as well. You need to let them come to you. If you come on all "glad hand", Germans will back away. (Oddly, I have heard it is the exact opposite with Finns. If you wait for a Finn to approach you, it will never happen.)

R215/Kaspar-Hauser, yes, it was the Komische Oper production. I’d seen it in 1918 and was determined to see it again this time closer to the stage. I went to the box office and purchased a tenth row center seat and the clerk informed me I’d need a negative result from a Covid test which I could get at a hotel around the corner. I panicked because I had to go back to the Netherlands in five days and if I tested positive then I’d be forced to stay in Germany. I took the risk and tested negative.

That production of Anatevka is one of the best things I’ve ever seen as a theatergoer in NY and London for over 50 years. It’s deeply moving and so beautifully acted and sung. And when that 60 (?) member ensemble sang “Sunrise, Sunset” and “Anatevka” I was a goner. I wasn’t a fan of their production of West Side Story in 2019, though.

Haha, I saw it in 2018, of course. December, to be exact.

Just checked the Komische Oper schedule for December-I’m not particularly interested in seeing The Flying Dutchman or Pippi Longstocking. And that KU’DAMM 56 musical doesn’t ring my bell. I don’t get why Berlin isn’t a hub for musicals but Hamburg and Stuttgart are.

[quote] I wasn’t a fan of their production of West Side Story in 2019, though.

You mean disco ball WSS? 🤣. I get what they were trying to do, I give them a ton of credit for re-inventing it, and it was far better than the Ivo van Hove production. In the end, it just did not work.

I think you have to be German to appreciate KU’DAMM 56 and it probably helps immensely if you were a fan of the miniseries. Even more if you were a fan of Rosenstolz. If it doesn't ring your bell, you won't feel you missed anything.

Have you seen Linie 1 anywhere?

I can't wait to See KU'DAMM. One of the few things we are getting in Berlin I am excited about.

Kaspar-Hauser/R219, I’d never heard of Linie 1 and just looked it up on Wiki. It’s the second most popular German musical after Threepenny Opera? I thought Elisabeth was! Which I still hope to see someday.

Yes, it's an organised country but also very restrictive as it has a very risk-averse mentality and it does NOT like entrepreneurs.

Kaspar-Hauser, I wanted to address something you wrote at R215. I don’t glad hand and know better than to engage in small talk. And I keep my voice down to a fairly low decibel level, heh heh. I will take the word of those who’ve told me Germans are usually reticent and guarded but once they get to know you they can be friends for life. However on a day to day basis they just aren’t, in general, as cheery, friendly and helpful as the Dutch (who can be cunty, yeah, I know). I’d even go so far as to say my fellow New Yorkers fall into that category. We actually like giving tourists directions-if they ask nicely. All half dozen or so times I’ve asked for directions (nicely) in Berlin I’d get a “don’t know.”

R221, part of the reason that it is the second most popular musical is that it is youth oriented, an ensemble piece with actors playing multiple parts, and not terribly demanding as far as production design.

Elizabeth is rather a mixed bag. Parts are great and parts really could be cut (they may have. I saw the original production.). It really depends on two phenomenal singers. Personally I prefer Rebecca, but how can you not love a musical where they actually set an actress on fire. (seriously, film level stunt work.)

I thought that Starlight Express was the most popular musical in Germany. God knows, it seemed like it when I lived there. I never understood the fascination with it.

Didn’t Starlight Express play for over ten years in, where was it, Bochum? I gather both Stuttgart and Bochum are off major motorways so easier for theatergoers to drive from a wide area of Germany.

I like the score of Elisabeth a lot although I have a feeling I’d find the Death character to be really annoying. He seems to be a rip-off of the Che character in Evita, for starters. Just remembered Elisabeth is actually an Austrian musical although performed a lot in Germany, of course.

One thing I think Berlin has that NYC doesn’t (besides good bakeries everywhere) is basic, well prepared meals like spaghetti bolognese in many affordable Italian joints similar to pizzerias. I could get a decent, satisfying plate for around €6 in many places whereas in NYC at a pizzeria it would be at least $12 for undercooked pasta with watery bolognese sauce.

R196, you actually need an authenticated name. I hate referring to you as a number.

Starlight Express was popular in Germany for the same reason it was popular with Japanese tourists in NYC. It really does not require an understanding of the language and it is very visual.

The relationship between Death and Elizabeth is more complex than Che and Evita. The anarchist Luigi Lucheni, who eventually kills her can be annoying. The scenes that don't work are the historical scenes that they feel that they cannot leave out, but really don't move the story forward.

Affordable basic food is one of the best thing about Germany. We actually got Chinese food in Coburg that was better than anything we get in our home New England state. I don't know if I would risk Mexican food in Germany, but basic Italian is usually good.

OK, Kaspar-Hauser, here’s my authenticated name.

I’m missing the cinnamon rolls at Zeit für Brot today.

Sehr geehrter TMW,

I'm missing... well just about everything. The house is rented for the summer and I am enjoying 96° degree New England weather (not really).

R221/R226/R227 my all-time favourite musical is ELISABETH, warts and all! Will gladly talk about her all day :D

Tbh though I'm more familiar with the Japanese stage, particularly the traditional ones by the famous esteemed Takarazuka all-female troupe. ELISABETH translates surprisingly well from German into Japanese, but as I understand it trying the same in English has only yielded clumsy results...wonder why?

This is one of the worst things

Justine Leconte is a designer (clothing and jewelry) who was born in France. She lived and worked in Berlin for a few years and, recently, moved back to France.

Here are her observations about Germany vs. France. (Sounds like her train experience in Germany (basically, on time) is different from posters upthread who are saying the trains in Germany are not on time.)

My takeaway from the comparison is that Germany sounds preferable to me ... except that France's attitude towards food is more in keeping with my approach.

Many guys don't wear deodorant.

The intercity trains in Germany really don’t run on time. I had several delays during my monthlong stay in October 2019. My train from Berlin to Leipzig was cancelled and I went from having had a reserved seat to having to stand for the entire ride which was at least an hour.

The subway system in Berlin, Hamburg and Munich were all excellent, though.

R234 But don't forget to read the closure notices carefully. Something's always closed for repairs. At least the notices are in English.

[quote]Many guys don't wear deodorant.

Is that your best or worst observation on the best and worst things about living in Germany? And would you say that it is a best or worst thing?

I really have not had a problem with German trains except when there is a suicide. What is really frustrating is that to avoid copycats, you are told *nothing*. A 35 minute train ride can take 5 hours and you never know why, except the telling silence. There is a tendency to do all the repairs at once. There was one fall in my area where there virtually no trains were running their full schedule. Nearly every trip involved a train and a bus.

The subways & trams are easy to ride without paying if you keep your head down, js. You can’t get away with that so easily in France or the Netherlands.

r238. That is terrible advice. If you are caught, you can be in big trouble. It is (or was) a 60€ fine. If you do not pay it and leave Germany, they will track you down. That 60€ fine will quickly become a few hundred dollars. If you have not paid it and travel outside your country, it will be flagged when you hit immigration controls.

R239 chill, I didn’t encourage anyone to actually do it. Just said that’s what I did—to my shame, wish I hadn’t but I was a stupid selfish kid with no money back then—and I got away with it surprisingly easily.

It was just shocking, because I expected more surveillance in a place like Germany. Maybe I’m wrong, but it seems harder to dodge bureaucracy in other Euro countries. Hungary was the only other place I had little trouble evading fares etc., and that’s way more derelict and poor than Germany.

Then again, this was several years ago. Maybe things have changed. Again, let me stress that no-one should try it, as Kaspar says.

Somebody once told me if you are stopped for speeding on the Autobahn the police will ask you to pay the fine in cash on the spot. If you do not have the money, they will follow you to an ATM to retrieve it.

I had used up my 7 day Berlin transport ticket and was on my way to the train station to head back to the Netherlands. For that entire week tickets had never been checked. I thought maybe I could get away with not buying a single ride ticket just this one time but a little voice inside me was telling me I’d better buy that ticket. And our tickets were checked on that subway train to Berlin Hbf.

Apparently you're not allowed to take a shower between 10PM and 6AM. Not sure if this is a rule but my downstairs neighbors complained several times that I took a shower after 10PM and it disturbed their sleep. I continued to have a shower after the gym and they complained to the landlord about it. Something you could never imagine happening in the US. Loud music, ok. But taking a shower? What about the people who work night shifts?

^^ typical American with no consideration for others.

As a warning to those driving in the Tyrol region, there is a traffic scam on the 999 (?). It enters Austria for about two miles. If you do not have the correct sticker, it is a $300.00 fine payable on the spot.

The ticket inspectors check tickets in Berlin. They aren't everywhere and it is conceivable you could ride for a week without getting caught. But "keep your head down" is laughable advice. Impossible to believe anyone ever avoided a ticket check that way.

Not taking a shower between 10 pm and 6 am was one of the conditions for my airbnb in Munich. At first I was like “Fuck that” but it was in a convenient neighborhood and I was only there for four days.

Berlín is one of the few places where I have ever seen tickets checked on subways and trams - and often.

[quote] "keep your head down" is laughable advice. Impossible to believe anyone ever avoided a ticket check that way.

IT WASN’T ADVICE. And it happened to me, in Dusseldorf.

Ffs you people can’t fucking read.

R249 "The subways & trams are easy to ride without paying if you keep your head down, js."

That's precisely how advice is phrased.

Moron.

I'll never understand how such practical, intelligent, creative people fell for Hitler and Nazism.

I do understand how our mess of a country fell for Trump, though.

Sad.

R251 Germans are not intelligent because they mostly vote for leftwing parties which invite muslim refugees who breed like rabbits. Islam doesn't sound very leftwing to me so Germans basically bring over the worst kind of "conservative values" to their homes and ruin the future of their descendants because they will then have to wear hijab. Germans fell for Hitler back in the day because they had something called "pride in their heritage". They don't have it at all anymore nowadays and most Germans are almost ashamed of being German. Hitler was an idiot but I can see that people thought differently a 100 years ago and could fall for his empty promises, where things like traditional values were still important to them. I wish Hitler never happened because then Germans would at least see some value in their culture and wouldn't let muslims run over their country. Hitler ruined everything and gave mental illness to Germans. Germans are basically the defintion of horseshoe theory. They went from one extreme to the other and instead of keeping modern first world culture alive, they willingly invite 3rd world animal religions.

It used to be easy to ride without paying, but those days are over. My ticket is usually checked on every train trip, every bus trip, and some tram/subway trips.

R252 Somewhat blind to discuss the rise of National Socialism without mentioning the aftermath of World War I.

Good observation, R254. After WW1, Germans were carrying their worthless currency around in wheelbarrows to conduct simple transactions. After WW2, the Allies learned their lesson about further punishing a decimated Germany, so they threw billions of dollars toward it to spur recovery. Had Germans been forced to foot the bill on their own, they might’ve quickly reverted back to nationalism.

I’ve been enjoying your comments on the Americans Relocating thread, Kaspar-Hauser. Especially your in depth remarks on why Northern Europeans can’t abide chit-chat.

Sorry, this was…

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

And first they came for the hot water in Hanover…

I stayed at a small hotel in Frankfurt in 1983 and it was the strangest thing (to me). They had a sign up that hot water was only available from 6 to 8am and then again from 6 to 9pm. To take a bath, you had the schedule it and go to a separate room (well, I knew this would be the case because that's the kind of room I had signed up for - but I didn't know that hot water would be so limited.)

Also, they turned the heat off in the building from 10pm until 6am - and had very thick down comforters on the bed so you wouldn't freeze (but it was uncomfortable keeping my head under the comforter so my ears wouldn't be so cold). This was in December and it was below freezing during the time the heat was off. Well, that's my show and tell today, Miss Simpson...

From R258 link

"The plans call for shutting off heating within public buildings between April and September each year, and thermostats set at just 20C (68F) for the rest of the year, although there will be some exemptions."

Part of that is what Jimmy Carter told us to do many years ago and I've stuck to it: 68 F in the winter; 78 F in the summer (which applies when you have AC)

Sorry, 78F on the AC never cools down the room.

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Wow re Oktoberfest possibly being cancelled. Fuck Putin and his blackmail.

I do just fine R262 (and I'm an hour north of New Orleans).

You open the windows at night and in the early morning to cool the house. Then close up and let the AC keep it at 78. Wear non-t-shirt like fabric - like light weight cotton (tencil, linen, chambray - but the key is LIGHT and not t-shirt/knit type stuff which is too heavy). No jeans either - lightweight shorts or even trousers but again LIGHT weight.

Drink a lot and your body will adjust just fine.

I even went an entire month with no electricity in August down here after Hurricane Katrina, and just took a couple cold baths (no hot water either) a day and dressed, as above, and it was fine.

Caftans are even better, if you're so inclined. Or nude, especially in bed but hey, once you've shut the curtains, why not?

78 is very cool, my house gets over 85 if I don't have the air on

I keep my air at 80 in the summer and my heat at 60 in the winter -- and I live in FL.

Kaspar-Hauser, are you a mystery or an enigma? Asking for a friend.

You get to wear pink triangles!

R268 / TMW. Is your friend a fan of Winston Churchill?

Hah, no, just of Werner Herzog films.

Do you think Oktoberfest in Munich will be cancelled because of the upcoming gas crisis?

I am on the USA and a bit out of touch. I emailed two friends in Munich. The both said that it will not be cancelled in Munich. They said it was a “go” in May. It would be very hard to cancel at this point.

Also, neither had heard anything to that effect. It seems to be fabricated news.