Do you have any friends?

I have quite a few, probably because I'm not desperate for attention like you, OP.

No, I don't.

While not exactly desperate for "attention", I realized a few years ago that everyone in my circle was there because I had begged them to be in some form or another. Once I stopped piling inequitably into the relationships they all wandered away.

I'm slowly learning to live with the loneliness.

A few but we rarely see each other. Phone calls, emails and texts. It's very lonely but I hate being with people.

I do. But I don’t see them as often as I did before leaving LA and then returning, years later.

We’re all getting older. Gas prices are expensive. Everyone’s working or staying home and saving money.

CoViD changed everything.

Posthumously.

No, me either. I am an Eldergay that used to do a lot of community service. Some of the people who said they were my friends ghosted me during the pandemic and never heard from since. Now that I am fully retired, they are all gone, now. Everybody seems to have a different life, now.

Most of my friends are or were in AA.

90 percent or more of them relapsed. Some even OD’d and died. A number of them went full MAGA or QAnon.

I still have the ones who remained sober and didn’t go nuts during the Trump presidency, so that’s like, 3 of them.

No. They died, moved away, or changed too much for me to want them as my friends.

No. I used to have alcoholic friends, but I don’t see them at all since I quit drinking. I have social anxiety without the alcohol, so probably will never have friends again. Oddly, I’m ok with that for the most part. People exhaust me.

Mt best friend committed suicide in prison. He was a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he liked beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them were on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoyed his social life.

LMAO, R10.

Good one!

[quote] Some moved out of town, some don't want to go out to socialize and some were political differences.

Do the ones who parted with you for political reasons still have friends and do they seem happier than you, who is alone and has no one wanting to be with you? I’m curious.

Trumpers probably have more friends and are a lot happier than liberals. They are so certain about everything. No shades of gray or nuances to fuck with your head. Too much thinking gets you down.

True, R13. Very true.

I should have said thinking at all gets you down.

“Be liberal and be alone and unhappy” is not really a good selling point, is it? Might want to focus group that.

Conservatives are only happy when they're shitting on someone.

It’s a lot of work having friends as you get older. You have to keep in touch and organize gatherings. One thing I noticed from looking over my dead grandparents day planners, they were always playing bridge and going to something called the historical society. We have that here, the hysterics society, we meet daily. Does anyone want to learn bridge? I’ll bet Greg would be up for making tea sandwiches.

I’m friends with some bitches who want to steal my man because they’re single and horny.

Not my neighbor Barb

R4,.Covid only changed everything, if you let it or are a chicken shit hermit.

I’m super old so I’m the last man standing!

The part I have most trouble with is someone to share memories with. San Francisco in the 60s hippie days, the 70s wild days for gay men and of course all the sadness of death in the 80s. I often want to reminisce and there is nobody left.

I have friends but none who live close. I could spend hours texting back and forth with many people, but to see someone in person seems impossible as much as I try to arrange something.

It happens. Every one has gone their own way. Bf e your own best friend. Better still, get a dog

Lay on the floor and masturbate

Yeah but I’m tired of their shit

An acquaintance asked me if I had any friends, boyfriend, etc. and I answered, " I don't have anything anyone wants". It was both disturbing and brutally honest.

You should have said no Burt will you fuck me?

Nah, R21. It did change everything.

And besides, I’m too broke to go anywhere right now.

Also, I’m not a chickenshit hermit. I have zero issues hanging out with people in groups. But right now? I have bills to catch up on and pay. I have low debt, but debt nevertheless that also needs to be consistently addressed.

Not everyone is over flowing in disposable income, at the moment. And I like to pay my own way.

So until that changes, I’m being cautious with money & watching Netflix, chilling with my cat.

I do, but I also see texting replacing talking, and I miss actual “conversations”. I have a big job, and that provides a lot of socialization and recognition and some prestige. But I do wonder about the long, long term. Loneliness is real.

My best friend has stopped calling except when she is in transit, on the street or on line in a shop, and speaks through ear buds in coded language because she’s surrounded by people. That’s irritating. She will also text each morning “so what does your day look like?”. I don’t like long, involved texting. I wish people talked more and texted less, but I know that’s an archaic sentiment. People in general are more “removed”, possibly lonelier.

I don't have social media, so not very many any more. I live in the town where my partner's mother lives, as we are helping her downsize/taking care of her. It is VERY 'conservative', aka Trumper Qanons, and the pandemic has made it difficult to meet anyone locally. I started trying to make plans with my property manager's office manager, we kept not, and then she went and told me she doesn't believe that Covid was real. That was that.

The last time I went out, everyone in the bar was on their phones. I suppose I am too old to understand how one socializes in the here and now.

This is why it's a good idea to find a partner in your 20s and settle down with him. The nonsense people spout about friends being forever is pretty empty. I have some good friends still but I rarely see them in the flesh. My partner is there for me every day.

I did just that, R32, and he is my best friend, the only company I prefer to my own.

I've drifted away from a friend I've known for nearly 30 years. He doesn't make any effort to expand his interests beyond those he's had since he was 15. We were punk rockers back in the 80s and it gets really boring communicating with someone who constantly talks about people and events from the past.

[quote] Trumpers probably have more friends and are a lot happier than liberals.

What are you talking about? They are the angriest people on the planet.

'I did just that, [R32], and he is my best friend, the only company I prefer to my own.'

I feel the same. We always have a great time with all our private jokes and the way the same things amuse us. Nobody better to chat with about my day, reminisce with or chat about the news and our future plans, but I still value alone time as I love reading. Seeing a lot of other friends on top of this and work just seems like overkill. I would be more sociable if I was single.

Holiday weekend coming and I'm grovelingly grateful a friend invited me over for a BBQ. Otherwise I have no other social plans.

I have a couple of other friends and they are married with kids. I always feel like I have to take social cues from them because their weekends are booked with family and kid events. Every couple of months they come up for air and want to meet.

I've tried making new friends, but they don't seem to go beyond the acquaintance stage. It's hard to bond as you grow older. I've been friends with someone for 2 decades now and we petsit for each other. We text but the only time we actually socialize is if I initiate it. He never says no but he also never initiates the process.

How did everything become online hookups? The bars could be rather 'high school' but at least you were surrounded by people like yourself. And the sense that anything could happen.

Now I never see gay people except Pride day. I may as well live in Podunk, Mississippi.

Friends with young children are particularly exhausting. I've deliberately broken off with two very good friends because I couldn't stand all the kid talk or worse, kid presence.

'Now I never see gay people except Pride day. I may as well live in Podunk, Mississippi.'

There are plenty of thriving gay bars in London where I live but they tend to be occupied by the 30 and under crowd.

Just 2-3 real friends. And they’re in other cities.

The rest have moved away, died, or either only contact me when they want something.

Most people have treated me like shit all my life so I’m always expecting it. I guess I can’t be disappointed that way.

I have all the friends I want, which is none. I have a much younger beneficiary who I guess you could call a friend but he lives a thousand miles away but we talk on the phone a couple of times a week.

I talk to the neighbors but I wouldn't call them friends.

I have had plenty of so called friends in the past and honestly I am happier being alone. Clearly not a lifestyle for everyone but it works great for me.

You guys without partners or younger siblings will regret not having a single friend when you get ill. Try driving yourself to your tenth chemotherapy appointment, or managing end of life care all on your own.

[quote] You guys without partners or younger siblings will regret not having a single friend when you get ill.

R43, I had friends and a brain tumor but I sure wasn't going to ask them to take off work to drive me to appointments and procedures. Being sick over a year and not really being able to to things made the friends disappear very quickly. There are medical transportation services that can drive you to medical appointments if you can't drive.

R43 You can always move into the Motion Picture & Television Fund like I did.

I have thought about that, r43. Luckily, I have some money. I assume that I can pay someone to drive me around and take care of me if need be.

The peak age for male loneliness is 35, apparently, so most of DL should be over the worst of it.

FWIW I'm 40 and, COVID notwithstanding, I do feel i have more friends now than 5 years ago.

TO R45, Is that true, did Kate Jackson really move into the Home there in Hollywood?

As one gets older, the more social situations and people tend to regress, forced into prescribe roles and functions.

Normies throughout their social life will generally have a circle of three to five core friends. . .usually those they grew up with or had later intense, life defining, experiences with... and those groups tend to be the most diverse but are difficult for outsiders to penetrate.. . even domestic partners tend to feel on the otuside.

Other social circles tend to be less diverse and people tend to outgrow or merely move on with a change of circumstances.

Couples tend to socialize with just couples and singles are viewed as threats or pathetic until they become a couple themselves.

Similar aspects apply to couples or singles with children.. to which then you're expected to have a child.

and so on.. It can be more than annoying from the outside but it's understandable as they would have to be silent about a big chunk of their lives that becomes focused on the obnoxious sti they've created or otherwise acquired.

So many of those types can seem fleeting until said friends reach the other side and the novelty wears off.

The local scene here doesn't really accommodate any adult having friends. . . it's viewed as childish. . . even creepy as the social norms here dictate, gay or str8, people should aspire to get married and have children. So, most people don't socialize outside or separate to their families. The loophole is activities with community associations but one lacks social standing without being married and having children. IT's also expected that you have a past drug problem or criminal history and found jebuz. .. then you're free to drink or gamble your life away... which are the primary social outlets here. The concept of hanging out is foreign here. If you're elderly, you can go on bus tours and daytrips escaping the confines of the rules and expectations.

While in my homelands, friends are the people you can go years without seeing but are willing to open up their homes to you without a second thought whenever you're in town. . . usually bound by taboos or trauma and you maintain good relations to keep them from selling you out.

'I had friends and a brain tumor but I sure wasn't going to ask them to take off work to drive me to appointments and procedures. Being sick over a year and not really being able to to things made the friends disappear very quickly.'

These were not real friends.

'The local scene here doesn't really accommodate any adult having friends. . . it's viewed as childish. . . even creepy as the social norms here dictate, gay or str8, people should aspire to get married and have children. So, most people don't socialize outside or separate to their families. The loophole is activities with community associations but one lacks social standing without being married and having children. IT's also expected that you have a past drug problem or criminal history and found jebuz. .. then you're free to drink or gamble your life away... which are the primary social outlets here. The concept of hanging out is foreign here.'

Where the fuck do you live and who is lying to you?

Many of my male friends have PTSD and as they get older they cannot tolerate random ness more and more It seems to bring on some sort of exhaustion after a lifetime of anxiety. Sometimes it seems they want to just give up on life and some did. Women friends became so involved in their work worlds such that they have only time and energy for that. Feeling kind of Lonely at 53 yo Friends just seem to be fading out. It is our culture and its values manifesting into a divided people.

r51 Indian country, rural southwest.

No, they died.

I have none, and I'm fine with it. I generally don't like people. Most start to irritate me within a couple of weeks.

Assuming friends will help you with end of life planning and drive you to chemo appointments is not always realistic. And before you start hissing “well then they aren’t your REAL friends,” not every friendship is that deep and that’s okay. Not everyone has a community like that. Scolding people and saying they better find some REAL friends to take care of them when they are dying or have cancer is just shitty.

And for the record, r6 you sound very sweet and I would be your friend.

I was a really good phone talker and people knew it. We'd be like, "OMG we've been on the phone for 3 hours. Let me turn some lights on".

[quote] Scolding people and saying they better find some REAL friends to take care of them when they are dying or have cancer is just shitty.

I don't think anybody was scolding people for not having REAL friends. However, it is sad that our "friends" can disappear during our worst trials in life. My parents each died relatively young. My friends disappeared during those times.

R50, if I lived near you, I'd drive you to your appointments. Sorry to hear about what you're going through.

I'd rather put a bullet in my brain than force people to care about me through guilt, R43.

Third world countries offer a much improved social life. You gotta get out of the work camp that is the USA.

Sorry to hear that, r7. My AA connections have remained strong, though I confine myself to online meetings. A friend and her husband, both boosted X 4, came down with covid recently, as well as some others with whom I'm not as close. I'm retired, so I don't have to be in a particular place at a particular time.

I have a meeting I go to every day. Well, it's open every day. I probably go four times a week.

I know two guys who keep drinking, but keep coming back to meetings. I'm happy for them.

Have you tried an online meeting?

R60 get your ass anywhere else in the world and come back and tell us about "work camps"

Europeans don't want poor people from America. Neither do Canadians, or Mexicans. If you don't have money you need to adjust, somehow, to living in a first world nation, with plenty of food, clean water, and general safety or resign yourself to misery.

If you want someplace to go, try Nicaragua. You don't have to be a citizen to buy property, and it's much less expensive than San Francisco. You don't have to be a citizen to start a business. They really cut down on the red tape. You don't have to have a guaranteed monthly income, or a job. Give it a go.

Women have it easy because they can always find a fellow old scold or nag to pal with.

R49, you said that was India but that also sounds like the Deep South.

You’re lost, r63.

You're a racist asshole, R66. Why is Nicaragua not a good place to start life anew? Spanish isn't difficult to learn.

r65 Feather Indians, dear, not dot. . . they call this region Indian country - well, the relocation of - Which basically includes parts of the proper southwest AZ, TX, NM but also includes parts of surrounding states but most view OK as the central focus given the larger tribes. . (and that extends it to parts of KS, AR, KS, CO as well) to which many of the relocated ndns did/do have strong roots in the deep south. . . so, aspects of that culture/sensibilities remains strong in some populations of these parts.

R48 No, it‘s not true.

No, I don’t have any friends. I have work colleagues that I sometimes mistake for friends so I have to be careful.

My difficulty with my friends is that have all lost their sense of humor. Everyday is like a funeral just waiting until it is their turn. They used to be so much fun and, now, it seem the weight of the world has got them all. Work, home, tv, sleep. That's the cycle. Hopefully, it won't take several years for this trauma to lift from the country. But, who knows? It may just get worse. People seem so tired and exhausted from fighting to survive, that some seem like they don't want to live. It is just too difficult.

How did DL become the only people I can talk to?

[quote] You guys without partners or younger siblings will regret not having a single friend when you get ill. Try driving yourself to your tenth chemotherapy appointment, or managing end of life care all on your own.

That's very macabre even for Datalounge. But if you don't have a partner or siblings you don't have to stick around for cancer treatment. A bottle of Whiskey and 10mgs of Xanax is your ticket.

Seems to me people don't want to put work into relationships anymore. I had one friend blow up on me because I asked him about the Bible. He yelled at me and told me I was judgmental. I told him I was trying to understand his POV and, of course I had questions. Well, he is a Trumper and I thought we could talk through this thing through. But, he goes full tilt if I do. Such a strange position I find myself in as my only friend left is a Trumper, who I have to constantly placate. It is a lot of work friending a Trumper, but I do love him and hope he will wake up.

I have one best friend whom I've known for more than 30 years. He now lives in the next state, but we're both pretty close to the border, so we usually visit each other once a week, barring the COVID lockdown period. We are constants in each other's lives and probably always will be. Other than that, I have a few more casual friends. We don't see each other often but keep in touch by e-mail.

All of those friends are male. I had a few close female friends when I was younger, but we drifted apart over the years and lost touch. One of them was murdered, but I didn't find out about it until years later. I wouldn't even know how to find the others now, nor do I think I would want to.

I have never been a people collector, so that's enough for me.

I find being single is the biggest barrier. We're all some kind of crazy because we don't have anybody else to consider 90% of our day and couples reflexively gravitate to other couples, not single people. I also find, in the main, the older you get the more you gravitate to your actual relatives. I know there are family horror stories but in my experience most people's relations with the relations aren't as fraught and there's some kind of tie draws them back to that circle. And finally, as you age, it feels like you draw inward, even if you're lonely. Maybe it's the modern life version of the animal instinct to head off alone to die. I do wish I had a partner and maybe even a kid or two. A family would be nice as things change in the third act.

R77 I know what you mean. But I also think grass is always greener. Partners and kids - if dysfunctional- can bring horrible stress and unhappiness.

But what you wrote completely resonates.

It seems people want friends to drive them to medical appointments, "to be there" for them, to take care of their pet when they travel, to prove their worth, to guilt when they don't hold up "their end" of the bargain, to do a post mortem expurgation of bedroom closets and their unspeakable contents, to reminisce with, to take on the task of instigating contact and invitations, to be markers and points of constancy in time, to go to AA with, to be the cause of their membership in AA, and to cast out when they move in a different direction.

The things I read on DL of friends who have proved disappointments often make me wonder how much the DL half of the friendship had on offer besides a tally of grievances. Part of it is a very American appreciation for friends who never change, who never disappoint, who never tire of listening to old stories and new complaints, who are always smiling and offering to help you for the quarterly turn of Mother's mattress, who are always on call when needed. They don't want to invest in the present, take change as a bad omen of things to come, don't want to feed a friendship with new activities and new people and new memories. The older they get, the less patience they have for anyone who doesn't share their age, their background, their worldview, their habits.

They don't want younger friends because they think they have nothing to offer in shared experience. They want their old friends to drive them to doctors' visits when their old and can't drive and yet their friends of the same age are apparently fit as a fucking fiddle behind the steering wheel. Of course it's no surprise that so many people end up with tiny circles of friends -- or fewer still a big "none" because time has made them irritable and quick to dismiss any fault or perceived slight as their definition of "friend" narrows and shrinks until it's the tiniest dot on the horizon.

You seem pretty cuddly yourself, R79.

[quote]You guys without partners or younger siblings will regret not having a single friend when you get ill. Try driving yourself to your tenth chemotherapy appointment, or managing end of life care all on your own.

My mother was a real piece of work, refusing to let me hang out with friends when I was a kid, and then in late high school, suddenly deciding that I was going to "grow up weird" if I didn't start making more friends. She was very rude about it, and for the rest of my life, would periodically tell me that I was "weird" because I didn't party all the time like she had when she was younger.

She got cancer in 2004, and I was the only relative who would take care of her. Early on, she'd say, "Look at how nice it is to have all these friends like I do, when you get sick you'll be alone and regret not having friends, because you're so weird."

Within maybe 10 days, every friend of hers disappeared, except for the neighbor across the street. No one would drive her anywhere, come visit, call, or anything. Sure, she had a ton of friends, but it meant nothing in the end. Her relatives not showing up was one thing, because her family has always been full of mean, selfish people, but the friends she was so sure would be there to help her either didn't care or were too scared of someone who was terminally ill, to actually do anything to help. I was the only one who would help her, along with my boyfriend, and she was a supreme cunt about it. The neighbor across the street was very kind but older, and it was too much work for her. She probably didn't think she'd be the only person left hanging around.

This is a grim story, but I'm being absolutely truthful. The advice that you'd better make some friends just so they'll take care of you when you're sick is terrible, awful advice, and those people probably have a nasty surprise waiting for them in a few years.

I dropped the ones who didn’t even bother checking in when they knew I had a life threatening illness last year. The ones that remain are plenty enough for me.

R81 it's similar to people telling you to have children because otherwise no one will take care of you.

R42 He lives far away, how did that friendship come about?

Do you watch male alpha master feet videos while you fap?

R74, very interesting. Are you 100% sure that will be enough?

Yes but all moved away over the years - especially after Covid (I live in NYC).

I meet up with two of my friends every summer for vacations. Lately, Maine. Also Europe.

Otherwise, I’m married and the two of us just kinda hang around each other.

I wonder what happened to the guy who posted here wanting to end his life with eye drops.

Here I am, R88. Still in limbo.

It's a very painful topic and going into the whys and wherefores wouldn't serve the purpose of this thread but the answer is: No, I don't, and I never had.

R90, what about family members? Any family you’re on friendly terms with?

Posters are mentioning depending on friends for driving at pressing moments. Here's my anecdote.

The time came when, due to extreme weather, my car was out of service and would take a week for the repairs. My [italic] devoted [/italic] BF of the time--of several years' standing in a beautiful cloud-free relationship--was a co-worker, and as 95% of my driving of that week of repairs would be to and from work, there was nothing more natural than for him to pick me up on the way to work, and drop me off at home after work, right? He said, "Sure!"

The first morning, he was OK with it. The second morning, he barely spoke to me. The third morning, he obviously wanted me to die in a grease fire, preferably before taking me home that evening. By the fourth morning, I had gone ahead and rented a car for myself.

Moral: Don't depend on folks, even those most devoted to you. They're only devoted to you [italic] until conditions change [/italic] . Yes, there are exceptions and potentially [italic] truly [/italic] loyal and generous people out there . . . but don't [italic] depend [/italic] on it.

You are wise r92.

R91, I get on okay with my mother and sisters though they tend to be more neutral than I would like in the conflict between my homophobic father and me. I also have a boyfriend.

Amen R92.

I thought I had two very close friends. One, after 25 years of indiscriminate fucking and hard partying, has begun to hang out with some very wealthy Republicans (one of whom is a lesbian!) and now treats me as an inferior. So fuck that. The other has known me since I was 13, but her husband has gone off the deep end with Trump and she no longer feels comfortable having me around, since she knows I'm wildly liberal and I guess she's afraid that my simple presence will upset her idiotic husband.

Their loss.

[quote] The third morning, he obviously wanted me to die in a grease fire, preferably before taking me home that evening.

r92 Well, did you offer to pay for gas that week, or some other thoughtful gesture? Goes both ways, dear.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

I wish I had someone to go see 4th of July fireworks with. Yes, I can do stuff like that by myself but it sucks when there’s no one to share those experiences with.

Not a ton of them but a few very cool ones.

No friends, no acquaintances, nobody, no nothing, I am friendless and alone, I was born alone, and I'll die alone, so just leave me alone...

Too many boring people..

Many years back I had tons of "friends". But as time went on certain things occurred to show me that most of them were fair weather friends. I began the gradual task of removing the worst ones from my life completely. Some of the others I moved down to the "friendly acquaintance" level. I see them every once in a while, but don't keep close contact with them. Then there were my 3 true blue friends. I've known 2 of them since 1st grade in 1959, and the 3rd one I've been very close to since the mid 80s. His 2 children are my godchildren. I'm closer to all of them than I am with any of my family members. These are the 3 people who will stop whatever they're doing and come running if I needed them, as I would for them. I'm 69 years old and frankly I'm no longer on the lookout for new friends. I have sufficient.

r97 Most certainly I did, treating him to a nice restaurant dinner each night on the way home, over and above the gasoline. His problem was with the temporary inconvenience of being responsible for doing something for someone, in this case having to [italic] gasp [/italic] drive a mere mile out of his normal route to assist his BF.

[quote] The time came when, due to extreme weather, my car was out of service and would take a week for the repairs. My devoted BF of the time--of several years' standing in a beautiful cloud-free relationship--was a co-worker, and as 95% of my driving of that week of repairs would be to and from work, there was nothing more natural than for him to pick me up on the way to work, and drop me off at home after work, right? He said, "Sure!"

Boyfriend was also a coworker, so, I'm assuming, same work site. Boyfriend of several years. Poster needs rides to and from work. This seems pretty reasonable to ask, esp. since, as stated at R104, it was one mile out of the BF's normal route.

BF sounds like an asshole if that was too much to ask.

I often wonder if people are drifting from their friends because of political and/or religious beliefs. Everyone is so much more political than they were 10, 20 years ago. All of a sudden I find I have to consider these things in my old friendships.

So many incels on this thread.

" incels, short for involuntary celibates, an online subculture of men who express rage at women for denying them sex and who frequently fantasize about violence and celebrate mass shooters in their online discussion groups.— Julie Bosman et."

I don't think incels is the word for DL. Is it?

Not having friends and being an incel are two different things, particularly when you're talking about gay men. If a gay man wants to get sex, then chances are he will get it, even if he has poor social skills.

I only have a few friends left, and only one lives in my city. He is in London, on holiday, so I am alone here.

[quote] It’s a lot of work having friends as you get older. You have to keep in touch and organize gatherings.

That's me fucked for life, then. I could make, maintain, keep or enjoy friendships in school and College, the Easy Mode of Relationships. At 30, I'm already pretty much resigned to having no-one and nothing.

Tbh, I literally haven't had anyone in my life that I could call a friend who isn't also a relative since 2012, and that 'friendship' turned out to be a one-sided fake one (she used me as a stepping-stone until she got back on her feet and found 'better' people). Almost every other 'friend' I've had was just hanging out with me out of convenience. The last decent 'real friend' I had was probably a fellow schoolkid back in the 2000s, and that's because we hadn't been jaded by life yet.

R104 your bf couldn’t stop off after work to [ fill in the blank. ]. as long as he has to drive back with you. Bummer.

R98 in fairness the poor woman wasn't alone when she died. Her son WAS with her.

[quote] His problem was with the temporary inconvenience of being responsible for doing something for someone

r104 I think you nailed it on the head. Some people who seem to be friend end up as a one-way road. They want everything and give nothing back. Sometimes, you don't find this out until well into the relationship and by the, feelings get hurt and damage can be done. Especially now, while people are so edgy.

[QUOTE] Most of my friends are or were in AA. 90 percent or more of them relapsed. Some even OD’d and died. A number of them went full MAGA or QAnon.

Were these at Gay Meetings? Where people went ultra MAGA?

R111 get a therapist and work on whatever you are going through. If you are actually only 30, that gives you plenty of time to meet friends and find connections.

I wish I was 30 again. I would do a lot of things differently and the first thing is to get a therapist and deal with my avoidance and fear and depression instead of waiting until my 40s to start the work.

And I get it - I remember feeling so old when I turned 30. But that decade just flew by.

R17 No conservatives are only happy when everyone stays in their lane.

[quote]Do you have any friends?

In a way.

[quote] I wish I was 30 again. I would do a lot of things differently

I wish I had Datalounge when i was 30. Seriously.

I think fraus and church people are more likely to have compassionate friends who will help out in times of illness. Men living alone are far less likely to attract this type of friend but if you're still wealthy when cancer hits, you can obviously employ a care assistant to help you out.

I have a friend I have known for seven years. We used to go to movies together during the pandemic when all the theaters were empty. He paid for dinner (Denny's) and I paid for the tickets. We always saw what he wanted to see, This was fine, for awhile. However, when I stated making suggestions, he poo-poo'd all of them. He even began eliminating subjects we could talk about. Out of the blue, last week I called him to make plans and he said, 'there's no movies I want to see'. I asked his if he wanted to do anything else and all I got was 'maybe next week' and hung up. WTF is that?

R121, I hate to be the bearer news, but your friend is a Datalounger.

Proceed with all due caution and maybe consider some diversification. This one doesn't seem on an upward spiral.

R121, yeah, he's not your friend. You're his plus one when he wants to do something.

[quote]I think fraus and church people are more likely to have compassionate friends who will help out in times of illness. Men living alone are far less likely to attract this type of friend

These DL threads always make me think that many gay posters are very specific in wanting things from friends. They make friendships of convenience, or mutual admiration/hatred, or I'll shave your back every fifth Thursday if you watch my cat when I go to Mother's the last weekend of every month, or we both have the same addiction and go to the same meetings so, you know.... Do gays not make friends because they like each other?

[quote] Why is Nicaragua not a good place to start life anew?

LOL.

Because it's fucking dangerous. Make friends with someone from Nicaragua and ask why they left.

R121, he's socially retarded.

[quote] Conservatives are only happy when they're shitting on someone.

But that's the opposite of what God intended!

R124 honey we’re not a one of us likeable😂

I really miss my formerly fun fag hag friends.

There was a time when we did so much together, shared so much together. Now, I just get endless photos of their boring kids doing not much. Sometimes I get a call while one is walking the dog or waiting for a Zoom meeting to start. I make a real effort to listen to their updates, but I can hear them tapping on their keyboards when I begin to talk about anything that's going on in my life.

Would any of us want to be friends with one another if it actually involved regular communications, doing things together, emotional support and leaning on one another in times of need?

I do, and actually more than I did when i was in my 20s after college. But I see the ones I am close with less frequently than I used to.

There are a few people here I'd be friends with.

Greg would be my first choice as a friend and preferably as a very near neighbour. I would hopefully be invited to all of his menu tastings, dinner parties, thanksgiving dinners, holiday roasts, Veterans Day buffets. Then at the end of the day or evening he would insist on me taking home some of the leftovers in Tupperware dishes to save the food from going to waste.

I’ve really thought this through…

Agreed, r133. We should elect him Governor of datalounge!

Many so called friends are transactional friendships.

R135 true, and I think people with high degrees of sensitivity, shyness, or with emotional difficulties/trauma and intense personalities struggle with that sad reality in this life (I count myself among them). Some of us crave depth in all our relationships, or security, or equal give-and-take, or a high degree of trust and reliability, and these are rare valuable traits that tend only to exist between close relatives or spouses/partners (and often, not even then).

However, there are those lucky independent self-assured souls who can just enjoy and exploit face-value interactions or superficial connections, treating the world like their welcome-party. These people seem to have the world in their hands. My BIL is one such—he can talk to anyone, make friends anywhere, travel and adapt to any situation. He has doubts like anyone else, sure, but never about how he will be met or received, or about how his friendships change or dissolve or realign. He doesn’t know how lucky he is.

[quote] Agreed, [R133]. We should elect him Governor of datalounge!

Haha! Very nice!

[quote] Greg would be my first choice as a friend and preferably as a very near neighbour. I would hopefully be invited to all of his menu tastings, dinner parties, thanksgiving dinners, holiday roasts, Veterans Day buffets. Then at the end of the day or evening he would insist on me taking home some of the leftovers in Tupperware dishes to save the food from going to waste. I’ve really thought this through…

R133, that's very sweet! I would invite you to all my parties. And I certainly would send you home with leftovers as well as with a gift bag of my homemade jams and preserves (blood orange marmalade, blackberry-sage jam, apple butter, peach preserves, and pear preserves...all made with fruit or berries from my garden—except for the blood oranges).

R133 And what would you bring to the table so to speak.

R22 we are here and the hippy days were the best, people that didnt know them are poorer for that ! What great fun it was. Peace

R140: It's always good to have some hippy friends among your friends. They have a capacity to surprise and for generosity.

R136 that is very true

This might be the most honest thread on Datalounge in a long time.

It is also the most depressing.

Seems like those two things go hand in hand.

Yes- pretty much the most important thing in my life. The close ones are my family of choice and the others new and casual one of the joys of living. I’ll make new friends as long as I’m able.

R144, it's obvious you're not young, so how do you make new friends? Only because you read as people age it becomes harder and. harder.

Not too many, no. I have one dear friend (male, gay) I talk to every day. Phone. Text. You name it.

Then I have a friend (female, straight) who I travel with, but we see each other less now that I moved away.

And then there’s a collection of couples, straight, who I hang out with. One of them is 53&60, the other two early 30s. Once they have children, it will all change.

Making new friends is hard, especially if you’re no longer working in an office. I tried MeetUps but for some reason you just don’t really connect with people. It feels too much like a bunch of strangers hanging out.

I have a few long-time friends, from back in childhood to now, and some really good ones made over the last 20 years. A lot of the old-time friends live in other places, so seeing the regularly is not an option, but we keep in touch. The more recent friends, made as an adult, I rarely see since COVID and working from home. A number of people I once spent enormous amounts of time hanging out with have either dwindled away to almost no contact at all, or I just realized I did not care for enough to maintain contact.

Also, I have not had a drink in 2.5 years and see no reason to return to that lifestyle (easier said than done in a city like NYC where there is a big drinking culture). So, that rules out quite a few people who would really only hang out if there was alcohol involved.

I think this is sort of normal as we age, to have fewer friends and acquaintances. Also, the fact that a lot of friends come through a workplace for adults has meant a lot of opportunities for those connections to be made just haven't been there for a few years now.

I am kind of okay with being more of a homebody now. I do miss hanging out with friends but less the drinking that went with it. I was never an alcoholic but drank to excess socially, was the life of the party, but the recovery time just got longer and longer and made things so much less enjoyable. I have always been pretty good on my own, keeping busy with the arts, creative writing, and hobbies, and have my husband of many years for companionship. Sometimes I worry that I am wasting some good years (I'm 45) but these are weird times...

Single 66 y.o. here. I have a few friends, namely 3 couples and one single that I hang out the most with. I recently realized that wasn't enough for me especially after reading some of the threads here with older guys complaining about their loneliness, with which I thoroughly identified. I figured I'd get proactive and start reaching out. I changed my hookup apps profiles to be less sexual (my sex life is quite active, so that's not a problem for me) and more social and believe it or not, I got several responses from mature guys who were in the same boat. I started socializing with them, going out to music and museums, and other things that interest me. I don't know how long any of these new friendships will last but I'm proud of myself that I didn't let the loneliness phantom get me. I think being socially active takes work. Nobody's going to come knocking unless you put a sign out that says, please knock. I'm realizing now how common it is for older gay men to lose their friends and suddenly feel like no one's around. Some of my friends died, some are retiring away in Palm Springs or Portugal or wherever. I see that this is happening to a lot of guys like me and let's face it, the older you get the harder it is to sustain an active life and keep up with the younger set, which is not really interested in you anyway. Older people in general tend to stay stay home a lot and of course that's not how they're going to meet anyone.

R147 you say your husband of many years at the bottom of your post. You are not going without friends when you have a partner living with you!

You can be rightfully proud of yourself, R148. I hope some of those new friendships will be lasting ones.

Thanks, Dutchie.

Share your memories on DL, R22. I want to hear all your stories, and I'm not alone in that, I'm sure.

Other than relatives all of my real friends are people from 12 step groups and I'm a very loosey goosey non-dogmatic member although I don't drink. The number there of really close ones is about 5. This is terrible but I never express any questioning of the doctrine so as not to turn anyone off. I feel like the "questioning" Jew born and in the middle of the Hasidic community. I live in Brooklyn btw and saw a documentary about that issue. People who left that sect but one older guy sorta fessed up he didn't buy much of it but went along so he stay in and get some support.

I also go to a progressive church in order to maintain a separate set of contacts. I could very well walked away years ago. I do recommend eldergays or nearly eldergays get involved with any progressive church, Episcopalians, MCC, that crazy Lutheran one with the racist trans ex-bishop. Doctrine doesn't matter, it's a community.

Finally this reminds me to start using SAGE, the eldergay organization in NYC. They get funding and I bet could provide a ride to medical appointments.

[quote] I have one dear friend (male, gay) I talk to every day. Phone. Text. You name it.

Dutchie/R146 is this you girl?

[quote] I also go to a progressive church in order to maintain a separate set of contacts. I could very well walked away years ago. I do recommend eldergays or nearly eldergays get involved with any progressive church, Episcopalians, MCC, that crazy Lutheran one with the racist trans ex-bishop. Doctrine doesn't matter, it's a community.

This is one of the few and only things I envy the Xtians for, as a Pagan—that you boast beautiful well-kept/restored and impressive churches in operation worldwide, and that most of your communities all congregate regularly in the same places without fail.

Paganism is lovely and I wouldn’t ever depart from the Path, but we as a spiritual-religious group tend more to Lone Wolfing, or if we do run in packs they’re smaller and more loose-knit, with no real fixed abode. So it’s harder to hold onto a group of fellow Pagans and keep the same rituals & gatherings throughout life. But that’s the lesson of The Wheel, I suppose....

R155, would the Unitarians take you? Could you take them? I bet paganism is now one of the accepted paths there.

R155, Radical Faeries tried to do that but my guess is they are largely gone by now.

I used to follow them and got that magazine, Rural something when I lived down in the South when younger.

Go jump in the toilet

We need more trans in leadership positions in this nation.

I’ve worn out all my friends. I’m very intense.

^^ I know what you mean. I have had people ghost me and tell me they think too much when they are around me. Just normal for me.

Specific to Americans, a survey on the state of their friendships, some comparisons across time, and some findings on the effect of the Covid pandemic.

A couple of points I found interesting:

-In 2021, 32% of Americans reported having 0, 1, or 2 friends; in 1990, those numbers added up to just 16%. (in 2021 13% reported having 10 or more friends, whereas in 1990 it was 33%)

-The more friends one reports, the more likely that person is to be happy with their friendships — 75% those with 10 or more friends report being very or completely satisfied with the number of friends, whereas those with 0 or 1 friend reported being 29% and 39% (respectively) satisfied with the number.

Source Disclaimer: The Survey Center on American Life is a project of the American Enterprise Institute

And a Pew Center international study on priorities by age of "What makes life meaningful?" in which Family; Friends; Occupation; Material well-being; and Health are prioritized by age group.

The second chart "Adults under 30 are far more likely to [cite] friendship as a source of meaning in life" is true in 12 of the 13 sampled countries, but not in the U.S. which oddly has a very compressed field of responses by age groups. There is remarkably little variation in responses from people ages 18-29, 30-49, 50-64, and 65+ The U.S. is the only country in which friends/community/other relatonships don't rate highest among the youngest group of respondents.

I have to think that if American respondents don't value friendships higher among the five values when they are young, there is not much hope for their friendships move into years where friendships are perhaps not made so easily.

I thought the research showed that 3 close friends is what you should aim for. My mother has always said you can count your close friends on one hand.

Maybe it’s because I’m introverted but the idea of being able to really share things and stay in touch meaningfully with 10 people seems unrealistic. How do people have the time?

I think social media has made people overestimate how many friends they have. When I quit Instagram awhile back, I noticed that 2 friends dropped out of sight because our main way of communicating had been sending each other mindless shit on Instagram. I also think social media has skewed everyone’s perceptions on how many friends they are expected to have since people commonly have hundreds of “friends” on Facebook and we voyeuristically take in the social activities of everyone and assume they have so many friends and are so much better off (speaking generally). The reality is often completely different. I’m sure most of us can think of a time we were unhappy and felt disconnected at some social gathering but smiled and posed for a photo. If we had posted that photo on social media, people would have assumed we were out and having fun. It’s like being on a shitty dinner date and pretending to have fun, but really just wanting it to be over so you can go home… the people around you in the restaurant would think oh look he’s having fun - must be nice.

I’ll stop rambling. MARY!

I'm currently recovering from knee replacement and have noticed that people who I thought were friends, and for whom I stepped up many times when they needed rides to medical appointments or rides home from hospital are absolutely AWOL for me, now. I'm playing it cool and seeing how long it will last, but at three weeks post-op, I don't hold my breath. I need nothing from them, but a call to check in would be welcome. Two of my three siblings have not bothered to call or text, either. I've decided not to complain or rub their noses in it. But I won't forget when they are sidelined or suddenly need me for something, like a ride. I hate how this turns me into a score-keeper, but there it is.

R165, if you're gonna keep score (which isn't a nice feeling, I know), make them feel the consequences.

[quote]I thought the research showed that 3 close friends is what you should aim for. My mother has always said you can count your close friends on one hand.

Between 3 and 5 s the commonly cited number in a lot of popular interest articles, all this in response, it seems to Dunbar's Number.

[quote]In a 1993 study, Robin Dunbar, a British anthropologist, theorized that a person could only have a maximum of 150 meaningful relationships in a lifetime. This number came to be known as Dunbar’s number.

Refuting the number, researchers at Stockholm University "commented that 150 is nothing for a person who knows how to socialize and maintain relationships."

Of course defining friends and close friends is tricky depending on whom you ask.

Thanks r167 - that was the study I remember reading about.

More and more it seems like every interaction with friends turns to politics, and I feel sometimes like I'm being challenged with a political purity test.

When I was younger -- in the 70s, 80s, and 90s -- I virtually never talked politics with friends. Why would I? We had lots of other stuff to discuss. And when we did talk politics, if we disagreed, we'd drop the topic, or sometimes debate it. I remember some of those conversations fondly. In fact, some of them actually did convince me to change my mind. When you care for and respect someone, and they feel the same about you, you're much more open to being persuaded.

I know my friends by their behavior and history. I don't need them to agree with everything I believe. I wouldn't even want them to; what a boring world that would be.

Maybe it's the 24/7 news cycle, maybe it's Twitter, maybe it's just bad juju, but the days of being able to disagree and debate civilly are gone. And the days of being able to have a politics-free friendship are too. And so, so are most of my friendships.

[quote] More and more it seems like every interaction with friends turns to politics, and I feel sometimes like I'm being challenged with a political purity test.

God yes. I tell my friends I don't want to talk politics because it depresses me. In reality, I don't want to discuss politics because I feel like I'm being challenged to a test of twinship. Do we think exactly alike or is this friendship over? Do my values still reflect theirs? Will they dump me if we disagree? Their disappointed faces when I say something that doesn't quite match what they think say it all. The pressure to be twins is on.

In the long run, despite all those years of schooling, jobs, and moving from place to place, I think most of us end up with 1-2 close friends

R171 This is true and it's good to hear it. I sometimes unfavorably compare my social life with that of friends who are social butterflies and seems to know everyone, especially when it's Saturday night and I have nowhere to go. The fact is, I wouldn't have the energy or the desire to socialize with dozens of people whom I never get to know well. 2 or 3 friends is fine.

I have friends, many new ones and a few old ones. I'm always open to meeting new people but was not always that way. I was shy and socially awkward for a long time but a career change forced me out of my self-imposed lonely prison when I was forced to learn to communicate openly with others. Part of my career involved writing feature interviews with interesting people. Learning to ask questions and listening really improved my social skills. People tend to like you, or at least be polite, when you listen and show interest. I learned I'm naturally friendly but earlier life events squished that impulse. Now I'm free!

I got lonely towards the end of the pandemic and joined a couple of Meet Up groups for older adults like me who wanted to socialize, hike, see theater, etc. I met some amazing people and now have a busy social schedule. I have a partner who works 24/7 and I'm retired with days free. I like the structure of the groups because if I can't make an event it's not a big deal. I still need solitude and I like the balance of having friends and being alone.

It made a difference in my mental health, I recommend reaching out.

I have one friend I see regularly but others have drifted away for various reasons but I have a lot of family too. I've always been a loner though so it doesn't really bother me.

[quote] When I quit Instagram awhile back, I noticed that 2 friends dropped out of sight because our main way of communicating had been sending each other mindless shit on Instagram.

A friend (former co-worker) retired and moved ... to Florida. She said she and I should keep in contact via her Instagram. I said I don't have an account & wouldn't be getting one. To her credit, she did keep in touch via long e-mails. (She was always a little long-winded.) But now, that seems to have stopped.

She did seem to know all of the gossip in our town. So, I guess she was learning that through IG.

r75 here again. Well, my MAGA boyfriend called back and asked me to go out with him next Friday night to a show. After hearing what you said on here, I told him I had other that plans that night. But, I was going to the Saturday afternoon matinee. I figured he wouldn't go to matinees, either. However, he came back to me and asked if I wanted to go to 'Denny's, as usual, after the show'. I said, 'Dan, what are we gonna talk about'? He said, 'Waddaya mean?'. 'We can't talk about anything, unless it's on the pre-approved subject list. And now, that list is so big that I forget what not to talk about with you'. 'Waddaya mean? 'Dan, let's skip this show and see what's next?' 'Okay'.

Oh, dear God in heaven, I need a drink! Or bottle.

I don't belong to a political party but that's sus for Democrats I know.

No friends. Just fuck buddies

I’m very social but only have 2 close friends.

The closest people I am to in the world are my siblings

[quote]I have friends, many new ones and a few old ones. I'm always open to meeting new people but was not always that way. I was shy and socially awkward for a long time...

That's similar to my experience, R173. I have more friends now at retirement age than I've ever had.

Having moved around a lot, I'm in close touch with a half dozen old friends of 40 some years, infrequent contact with a similar number, and some peripheral social media contact with a couple older friends still.

Most of my friends though are from the last 5 or so years. I changed countries to a place where social life takes on a huge priority, where everyone has loads of friends and where you quickly meet the networks of their friends and family. The idea of having three good friends here would be fairly laughable. Always being surrounded by circles of friends and meeting more new people every week than I used to encounter in many months would have seemed an exhausting prospect in years past. Now, though, I quite like it (though with a share of solitary time that is appreciated.)

Listening is a hugely important skill to making a connection. When someone sees that you remember some throwaway detail they said a month ago, that you seem interested in what they say, or that you make them feel comfortable talking openly, you have the start of a friendship.

I don't have many friends with whom I share a long history, buy just as well because I'm more interested in the present than in reminiscences. A long, shared history makes a comfortable bed, but at the same time I love learning about new people I like.

And that country is, R180, deep inside your imagination?

Frankly I find the idea of lots of "friends" exhausting and most are merely acquaintances in reality.

R180 I call bullshit on your story. Nobody has more friends in retirement than they have ever had. You actually sound like the new village idiot going around and just blabbing to anybody, that is not friendship.

R180 is like this old guy I know who calls his Airbnb customers "friends". "I have friends all over the world!"

I’m told people find me along and unapproachable.

Along? I'm also told I'm unapproachable. I get all thunder-faced when I'm in public, as a defence mechanism.

Sorry. I meant to write “aloof”.

Thanks, R187. I should have guessed but it's early where I am!

Do Sims count?

Not close/deep/longterm friends/neighbours/acquaintances near you have more chance of helping you in need or being there than so-called close/longterm friends or family members far away.

I learned this since a child with my people-person dad and mom with a few real friends and community/church friends whose connection more or less ended when we moved.

I lost several friends after I moved to Spain. And now I don't care to re-invest in new friendships. I didn't see that coming.

If you're not losing friends, then you're not growing up.

You move to another country and you expect to keep your friends? It's not possible dude.

Do fuckbuddies count?

I am what they used to call a very long time ago a social retard. Had very few friends growing up and have fewer now. If I had the money I'd take adult education courses just to be around people where it doesn't depend on personality so much as the subject at hand that you share an interest in(languages) but I don't have the money. So it sucks.

R192 Really? Only some friends have disappeared, others have stayed strong. So yes, some friendships remains strong, goofy.

About 3 years ago my mom died, I didn't have a smart phone at the time, and one of my best friends I've known since 7th grade asked if I would like to have her old one, she was getting a new one. It had a cracked screen. I wasn't really thinking about it because I was dealing with my mom's death - I'm an only child - but I said okay, why not? Then I remembered that everything this person has ever given me, some old thing or other she wanted to get rid of, she eventually asked that I give back to her ("Indian giver").

Sure enough, about 2 weeks after giving me the old, crappy, cracked phone, she called and asked if I'd set it up yet. I said no I'm dealing with a lot right now. Then another week goes by, and she asks me again. So I say no, and she says, "Then I want it back, if you're not going to use it - I need it to give another person, my neice." Now...she GAVE me this. When you give something to someone, it's no longer yours. It doesn't matter what they do with it, it isn't up to you to monitor what they do with it.

But I gave it back to her. My mom was dead three weeks and THIS is all she cared about. One of my BEST FRIENDS.

So I really haven't seen her since. I wonder if she wonders why.

Saturday night I went to a big concert, by myself. I had a blast! I met people, and I totally enjoyed seeing the concert. I guess this is the new normal for me. I'm sick of friends. People are weird and just let you down.

i'd like to befriend you r196. you seem like a genuine and honest guy. i'm an only child and like concerts too.

R197 Aw, thanks, you sound nice too.

One thing I’ve learned is that to have friends, you have to be a friend. I used to be the type who made everyone come to me. They had to call, text, or invite me out…I never made the first move (not just because I’m a loaner…but because I fear rejection as well).

Don’t turn down invitations. Go outside your comfort zone and engage in community activities.

[quote] People are weird and just let you down.

This is a mentality that I struggle with. Really, thanks to a lifetime of social rejection and ridicule starting from the age of 4, I just don’t trust anyone enough to get to know them and share intimate thoughts or details, and I’m told by family that despite being a nice kind conscientious person up close I give off “what the fuck do you want don’t come too close” standoffish vibes that scare people off. I can’t even tolerate wider relatives I’ve known since childhood asking me questions or trying to converse and socialise, and I’ve driven off the few casual friends or acquaitances I’ve had in the past simply by not knowing how to be a decent normal friend (I either get too apathetic and distant, or in the odd case too intense and dependent).

Idk exactly why I’m like this—maybe because my father was cruel and emotionally-unavailable with me, or that I was teased, bullied and excluded all through school and Uni, or that one side of my family estranged when I was a young teen.

Or I’m just not sociable by nature; I always hated ‘joining in’ as a kid, as the herd seemed stupid and cliquey to me. I’m also overly-dependent on the Internet to socialise, due to the above—I started online very young (as a kid, during the Millennium) because I got on better chatting online to older people than peers my age (now I’m 30 and everyone these days is online, it doesn’t seem so weird, I guess).

No idea at this point if there’s any hope or point to me trying to reenter social spheres and shoot for normal relationships. I’ve never had a partner and barely had friends in my decades on Earth, so I haven’t much to offer a normal adult person.

Everyone trots out the, “get a life, join a club, play sports, go to a bar/coffee house, chat to people at the supermarket” advice, but it’s not applicable for certain loners. In my younger days I was in several extra-curriculars weekly, and still I wound up unpopular and the butt of jokes and gossip. Maybe there are people who just can’t ever fit it.

R200 are you in therapy? You should be. I say this as someone with very similar tendencies who started therapy a year ago and wondered why the fuck I waited so long. It’s not a miracle cure for my issues but it’s given me tools and insight into why I react to people the way I do.

Muriel should start an app for DLers looking for activity partners in real life.

[...]

R196 Reading between the lines, I think it sounds like you possibly still want to try to have some friends. I think the suggestion of seeing a therapist is a good one - you're only 30, conceivably you still might want to try having a social life- it's easier now than it is, later. I don't have any real suggestions except sometimes we're "stuck" in life and it takes extra effort to get over certain humps, and you have to force yourself. If you end up deciding you want to try to have friendships you'll have to work to push yourself past certain preconceptions about yourself and other people.

Not excited about starting another work week. On the other hand, just ended another weekend by myself so it's not like the weekends are great either.

I put some effort into building up a social life a few years back but it has stalled for various reasons. And it has affected me and I'm on the border of depression, if not already there.

Who needs friends when I can pay for escorts

All of my friends live thousands of miles away and are legacy friendships. A couple people each from high school, university, first few jobs in different cities. These aren’t of course everyday friendships and are essentially frozen in time. I’ve paid the price for transient career paths followed by both me and my husband. Many different cities, in different countries many with different sets of acquaintances. The older you become, the less likely the social connections will firm up. I know there’s a debate about whether it’s easier to make friends as a single versus attached. I’ll just say adding in more people to the equation adds complexity. We discuss this topic regularly and have decided just to follow the passions in life we enjoy. If we happen to meet connections great; if not, that’s fine too. Having a dog has made a big difference. We recently got one again after many years without one. Where we live, it’s the ultimate ice breaker and I’ve had more conversations with strangers in a month walking my dog than probably a couple years just by myself. It’s nice to have regularly chit chat with other dog people and go to dog meet up groups. The puppy has brightened our lives and got us out and about.

I always enjoy reading your posts, DGL @ R202. Unfortunately, friendship is out of the question not least because we live about ten thousand miles from each other.

I hate how was your weekend questions on Mondays.

I do think you have to be really careful who you let into your life after about 40. People are fucking crazy and you won't know how much damage they can do until it's too late. Straights have it over gays in this regard. They normally get married, have kids and become their own little island.

[...]

R209 I was surprised that even my cousins who I was close to growing up made these new "islands" - not just with their own families, but their spouse's families, etc. And didn't include me, when I didn't follow in that lifestyle. Also some of my friends who are married only socialize with other married couples, Very 1950s.

Some of my best friends turned MAGA on me and it crushed me. You just never know what people hide inside until the worst of them come out.

R211 yep that is sadly common. Especially when cousins or relatives level up financially or worse marry into money. Suddenly, you’re trash and they don’t want to associate.

So, the notion that "found families" are a good replacement for actual families is not entirely true?

R201 thanks for the kind words and encouragement. It’s really nice to hear that you’ve been helped such a lot by working with therapy—of what sort, may I ask? And which specific issues did it help you address?

As for me, I’ve tried several different therapy branches over the years, and none have significantly proven helpful. CBT, DBT, Gestalt, psychodynamic, hypno...nothing’s worked. Not sure why—whether it’s because I wasn’t open enough, or wasn’t ready, or wasn’t mature enough, or because I have some kind of unaddressed and undiagnosed issue. It’s a little disheartening.

As far as I can tell, my problem is social anxiety caused by significant fears of exposure/rejection, but also codependency traits, classic avoidance/dismissive, lack of motivation and awareness of time, and some behaviours that track with fear of intimacy, so there’s a lot to sort out that I don’t think the therapy I could afford (free/low cost) can possibly cover.

In the last year, I’ve been taking certain intensive vitamin replacements that have vastly improved my physical health, but even so I find that my heart (metaphysically-speaking) is not catching up to that level or so open to healing or becoming resilient. Perhaps something like mycotherapy would help me, idk.

R136...That is a great post. I am an example of the first part of your comment. The second part is my sister, who draws people in without much effort and is the favorite of the family....a lot of my immediate relatives are gone now. She always had friends, boyfriends and continues to this day. She's in her 70s. I always struggled to fit in, even in my family. I was always the outsider and and overly sensitive, awkward nerd. I have no friends and I'm estranged with my sister and family. I'm very used to it and really prefer it that way. The only thing is....when I need someone to give me a ride to a precedure, or other things at times...kinda sucks.

*procedure...^^

Many posters have said that they prefer not to have the bother of friendship, yet they want "friends" whom they can call upon for a ride to a medical appointment, or some favor.

What kind of "friend" would rather be without friends -- except when he needs a lift home from having his eyes dilated or knew surgery or "needs" a friend to enclose his porch because he's hopeless at carpentry and home repairs?

[quote]most people are fucking fake and don't understand what actual friendship is.

What is it, then, the social obligation to drive a friend home from bunion surgery without having had made any investment in your chauffeur? FFS, that's a byproduct of friendship, not the goddamned point of it all.

[...]

After reading some of these comments...even with an invested, give or take friendship...even years...there seems to be some fair weather friends when some help was needed. You really can't depend on anyone.

pov: your toxic traits are isolation flight-mode and avoidance

but also your love languages are quality time and physical touch :/

It seems the definition of friendship has changed over the years. While in the past I had best friends I could pour my heart out with, it seems people don't care for that these days. I blame computers and, especially, ipads and cell phones. People seem to treasure online friendships more than they do with real people. I had one friend that pours out his whole life on Facebook. Yet, when people talk to him about going out, he freezes and doesn't want to leave the house. How do you friend people like that?

OP I’m in a similar situation. Let go of a few friends due to Trumpism, then lost a few because I didn’t want to risk covid in 2020-2021 and they thought I was being dramatic. So I currently see a couple of friends in person 1-2x a month, others every 3-4 months, overall I’m still not feeling like socializing much.

R215 - oh it sounds like you know much more about therapy than I do - I am just addressing my general issues for the first time in 43 years -and my issues seemed very similar to your original post.

I find I am just extremely avoidant and deeply introverted. I find socializing draining. I am terrified of intimacy. You know - the usual. We sound like a fun duo lol.

R224/R201 lmao yeah sorry I didn't mean to overload with information or infodump about my own experience! Just was curious to know what exactly was helping you, as whatever it is must be quite a powerful and effective branch. You story sounds like one of success, so naturally I want to know all about it (or as much as you want to share, and I know better than most how uncomfortable that can be for types like us haha)

Socialising is so draining! And often loud and annoying and mean! Yes and yes, I totally get where you're coming from with that. Idk what it is we missed or can't easily extract from interactions, bc other people I've spoken to about this absolutely do not get why anyone would assiduously avoid most or all social contact. Telling someone "it hurts my brain and leeches all my physical energy and makes me want to faint or run a mile away and I mentally disassociate every time it happens without prior warning" makes you sound crazy...believe me, I know :)

We are a handful defo, guess that's how come we've found DL lol

I lost all my Republican friends, then I lost all my Democrat friends because they're all centrists and I'm a progressive. The other day I was singing the theme song of Petticoat Junction, absent-mindedly, at work, and a co-worker said, "You'd better not be talking about my President!" - because I was singing the line, "And that's Uncle Joe, he's moving kinda slow..." Probably sounds like I'm kidding, but I'm not.

R226 The fact that people are losing friends over their political beliefs is so wrong. It's like everyone is being held up to a political purity test and if you don't pass, you're out. Nothing else matters, not the years we were friends, not the meals we shared or the trips we took together, you're out.

A few weeks ago some of my progressive friends gave me shit because I'm still friends with another friend who voted for Trump. I've been friends with this guy over 35 years, we never discuss politics, we talk about movies and fashion, but I'm supposed to throw him out because he voted for Trump?

R227 -- Yes. you should throw him out -- if, that is, he still supports Trump, because he voted for a criminal who tried to overturn our government, incited a riot, and wanted to have his vice president lynched. Not to mention that while he was still president, Trump ran a basically criminal organization designed to enrich himself and his family, stomped all over civil rights, including gay rights, destroyed the supreme court, ruined America's image overseas, and... well... you could go and on but yes, your friend does not deserve kindness from anyone. It's not a purity test. It's aligning yourself with what is good and right in this world, and opposing what is wrong.

R228 You're out of your mind. I don't throw out people who love me and who have been my loyal friend for decades, and who've been there for me when no one else was. You're the one who represents everything that's sick with this world today.

I have never cut loose a friend because of politics. Truth be told, I don't much care what someone's politics are.

On the other hand, I have been dumped by people for the tiniest, slightest variation from their beliefs.

I remember some years ago I was talking with a friend about immigration. We basically agreed on everything but then he said children of Latino immigrants to the US should be taught in Spanish only, because teaching them English was punitive and oppressive. I said they should be taught in English with help if they need it, because adults who speak no English risk being relegated to menial jobs and ghettoized. We both agreed that children of Latino immigrants should be treated fairly and respectfully as full US citizens; we just disagreed on certain details of what "fairness and respect" might look like.

He told me he couldn't be friends with someone who had beliefs like mine, and that was the end of that brief discussion, and that friendship.

I used to grieve these things, but now I just feel: If someone is so intolerant and closed-minded that the slightest disagreement is going to scuttle our friendship, then that friendship was not meant to be.

Increasingly, I'm happier spending more time with myself than trying to jump through Purity Hoops.

"Do you have any friends?" I just remembered this was my dad's comeback when I said something nasty to him when I was a kid. lol

Same thing happened to me, R231.

R230, I think that it's far more common for people with left-wing views to reject friends based on perceived infractions. To be fair, truly right-wing people probably wouldn't be friends with most of us pansies in the first place.

I’ve got about 4-5

I lost my best friend who was a Trumper. We ignored everything politicl and had a good time... until. One day he told me he supported book banning and that his daughter was the prime example of a 17yr old with a christian attitude and no knowledge of any books on the do-not-read list. I mentioned to him that she was of legal age to read anything she wanted when she turns 18. He retorted, 'Not in my house!'. I just couldn't do it anymore.

There are people who are charismatic and effortlessly attract people to them. Sometimes it's something they're born with, a spark, an energy, certain attractive qualities. And the opposite is also true where there are people who are born with repellent qualities, boring, dull, homely, irritating and there's nothing you can do about it. No amount of awareness, personal improvement and therapy is going to change that. Obviously most people fall in between but you sometimes you aren't made for friends no matter how badly you might want them.

There is an interesting interview with Billy Mumy talking about his career on Pioneers of Television. At the end he is very honest about the kind of people who become obsessed with certain TV shows and attend comic con and sci fi conventions. Who are too invested in these things. He pretty much talks about them as misfits, the fat, the homely, the unwanted. Losers. But he doesn't talk about them with contempt. He's more matter of fact and not unkind. But he allows that these things give passion and a sense of community to these people otherwise they would have very little in their lives.

I do in other cities. We’ve all moved since college

R234 It sounds like your ex-friend was trying to trigger you. Maybe other unresolved or unaddressed issues from before, and then he found a way to push you out?

The sad thing is that there's no way to avoid investing in people who will end up letting you down and showing they didn't value the friendship like you did. You will only know that when they fail to come through for you with something important.

I do think it's important to try and keep good relations with family, where possible. Those are the people who ought to care about you, even if they don't always.

But of course it is possible to make friends after 30, including very good friends, so long as you have a lifestyle that gives you regular opportunities to meet new people. Don't let your horizons shrink to your job and your apartment.

These days, I find myself envious of pro sports players, cadets/soldiers, and dance or acting troupe members. These sorts of groups have built-in close bonds of intimacy, forged in team-building and learning and challenging one another together for a common purpose, that tend to be lifelong. It seems like they share so much on a meaningful level, and have a depth of honesty and support that most friendships in everyday civilian life don't.

It's weird to realise and admit that I want to experience and have that in my life that so much, having always been on the outside of any group and disdainful of pack dynamics, but tbh I do. And ironically, these are the very types of people who bullied and ostracised me as a kid, hence why I write stories and go on long hikes by myself all the time--easier than facing groups of people waiting to find fault or make fun of you. Anyway, the point is moot because it's way too late for me to enter into any of those dynamics, and besides I am entirely unsuited in terms of personality and skill and mindset to contribute to such. Perhaps it's the parasocial for me, forever!

Not many, my best friend moved to a retirement destination but we are still in touch. I've been ghosted by a few.

R231 My mother said that to me as well. Or that she had more friends than I did...which was the truth.

I kept in touch with some people on Facebook but it depresses me so I hate to go there.

My Facebook thread is filled with people i know celebrating their recent achievements and congratulating each other over vacation photos, farm fresh organic garden salads, pets, and landscapes.

I flee. What else is one to do?

I have only two very close friends.

Most people annoy the living shit out of me

R241 lmao yeah I feel you. My grandma has way more friends (and money, and supportive family members...) than I do. Absolute joke at this point.

I would suggest you get off of Facebook, seriously. Nobody's really honest and you'll end up comparing your insides to everybody else's outsides.

I recently asked some of my family members to remove me from a text group that had been going on since Covid / the 2020 elections. It was fun during the elections, because none of us (surprisingly) were wanting Trump to win.

Then, it devolved and became Facebook-ish. People bragging, texting photos of their kids. I had had enough and asked to be removed from the group. I felt kind of Scrooge-ish, but another cousin, before me, had also requested that he be removed from the group.

^^should have mentioned too that my grandmother is an awful person in spite of her good fortune. Seriously a malignant narcissist, who tried to disown her own children and still emotionally abuses my mother. But she still enjoys popularity, security, wealth and relative comfort in her old age. No justice!

My grandmother also remained powerful and popular till the day she died because she held on to her money. She said to never give away money as inheritance while you still lived.

[quote] But of course it is possible to make friends after 30, including very good friends, so long as you have a lifestyle that gives you regular opportunities to meet new people. Don't let your horizons shrink to your job and your apartment.

r238 This is so important, especially if your job is in your apartment.

I have a few but we only talk when something important happen in our lives lie death of a parent, birth of a child. Nothing much to talk about really

I guess the stereotype of the lonely aging homosexual is true. I wonder if it is really that different with straight men not in a miserable marriage.

^^^^ I don't see many straight men not in a miserable marriage. Are there any?

It's not so much a straight or gay issue but a male issue. Loneliness, at least in the Western world, is very much a male problem and men are bearing the brunt of its worst effects.

R251 It's a lot easier for single straight men to find a mate because there are a lot of desperate women out there thirsting for a companion. That is not true for gay men.

R254 Loneliness is not solved simply by finding a mate. Even if you don't end up in divorce/separation, as a large proportion of straight relationships do, it's not wise or healthy to make your partner your sole source of emotional support and neglect to maintain friendships with others.

r248 Absolutely true. No money, no friends.

ConcernedEuropean are you a shrink?

R257: Nope, not making any claim to expertise, I've just thought a bit and read a bit about this topic as I've gone along, I've lived through some lonely times too like most of us have. We live, when you think about it, in a culture that absolutely devalues male friendship: men are often socialised to be competitive with each other anyway, and after a certain age, like 30, spending time with your friends is often considered as an irresponsible thing for a man to be doing, distracting himself from what's really important (career/partner/family).

No. People usually meet their friends in the following ways: School (I drifted apart from my school friends) Work (I'm solo self-employed) Religion (Don't attend, atheist) Gym (I exercise at home) Hobbies (Don't have any, don't want any)

I'm not good at being friends. I have work friends but that is it. So its ok that i don't have any friends.

Lately I’ve realised that one of my big fears about having friends or partners is encountering or displaying physical vulnerability. Like, I hate being ill or invalid or dependent, and I even more hate being around people in that state. Even the thought of vomiting, fainting or getting diarrhoea around another person, or having to clean up after someone else, is panic-inducing to me—once in College I got drunk at a casual friend’s place, vomited in her bathroom (cleanly as possible, I might add), and after that ghosted because I couldn’t bear looking her in the eye after that (though she turned out to be a bitch who’d been spreading rumours on campus about me for a whole year prior to this, so..every cloud).

I’m aware this aversion is ridiculous, because everyone is a frail human, and even the healthiest of us get sick or injured from time to time. Plus the infirm or disabled deserve dignity and compassion. I believe all this, yet I absolutely freak out and want nothing more than to barricade when sick or encountering the sick and disabled. Because I’m a horrible caretaker, and a worse patient.

Every time someone comes into my life, known or stranger, all I can think is “what if I get ill when they’re around? Or what if they do? How do I handle that?” One of my worst dreads, that eats away at me every day, is one of my parents getting a disease or becoming a dependent invalid. My grandmother is in fairly robust health, but she halfway deaf & blind, and I have to help take care of her which I dutifully do but must admit is a total fucking headache (she’s not a nice woman, very conservative).

This attitude isn’t one I can afford to keep up, I know, because every day I get older and closer to infirmity and death (if I make it that far). Even so, the horror overwhelms me sometimes, and really gets in the way of getting close to other people. Anyone else feel the same?

^^^ Yes, I do. My mother and sister were nurses and my brother was a doctor. I am an accountant. I cannot stand illness, blood, dead people or hospitals. My mother and brother had horrible, painful deaths. I just don't want any part of it.

However, when you start getting older and the pains that never go away set in. That is when things start getting real and some sort of plan needs to be create. I made and effort, while still feeling relatively good, to make friends. I found some whom I like, oddly enough. I cannot imagine these people will cater to me when I really start falling apart, but at least, now I have someone to talk to. Without people and talking, I am way to far into my head and cannot, sometimes, get a perspective on what is real and what is not.

[quote]my best friend moved to a retirement destination

That sounds so very...final. Like a plot at Eternal Pines.

^^^ Right next to Shady Pines.

R260 yeah me too. Wish there was some sort of lowkey social skills training one could do to learn or re-learn how to interact and show up as a friend. Sounds mad, but we can't be the only two who aren't sure about it. If you have a history of bullying, or loneliness, or grew up without solid roots, or have certain limiting social disorders, then obviously you wouldn't know how to do the normal 'friend stuff'. It's taken for granted that it's obvious and natural, but is it?

My parents had really great friends. True friends. Those kinds of people seem like a thing of the past. Hard to describe what they were like, but they weren't materialistic, they weren't competitive, they were honest, straight-shooters, meant what they said. I think I've been looking for freinds like that all my life.

*friends

R266 I know what you mean.

R268 I loved them. They were so NICE. And down to earth, and pleasant to be around.

R266, there is a reason for this. Being thin-skinned and easily offended was once thought of as a serious character flaw, maybe even a sign of mental illness. People prided themselves on being able to take a joke or to brush off insults as beneath their notice.

Now you're not only supposed to be thin-skinned -- for example, dropping a lifelong friend because of a political opinion -- you're supposed to be thin-skinned on behalf of other people, on behalf of the whole world. If you're not offended by everything, they say, you're not paying attention.

Politics, school, Twitter, cable TV, social media: All designed to make everyone feel they're the only righteous ones. Designed to set everyone at everyone else's throat -- because angry and outraged people keep reading, keep clicking, and keep engaging.

So here we are. Everyone's looking for reasons to hate everyone else and put the worst possible motives and spin on everyone else's behavior. And everyone thinks everyone else is the problem.

As I was growing up, I often felt friendless: not in a melodramatic way, but just an acceptance that I didn’t have many of the intense friendships which people have in their teens.

It bothered me a little, but things got a bit better in my university years. I became part of a circle of friend. We hung out together, studied together, got drunk, consoled each other as relationships ended or even failed to start. I felt a sense of belonging, which felt great. However, after university I began to realise my friendships were situational: we were living in the same place at the sam time, doing the same type of things. Most of my friends from those days faded from my life very fast.

My lasting friendships have mainly come from work. In my mid-20s I joined a company which was growing fast and which had employed lots of people around my age. My experience up to that point (and a lot of sage advice) had taught me that these friendships would pass too, when our situations changed. However, I’ve got about a dozen people from that time who have stuck with me (and vice versa) and they are the people I know I could call if I was sick, or sad or in trouble. Our lives went in different directions, as people had kids, cared for elderly parents, moved away for work, etc., but we have stayed connected.

I think friendships are a fluctuating thing. Priorities change, and responsibilities do too. Sometimes there is simply no time for all those we want in our lives. The friendships that matter are the ones which find a way to endure. Very often, distance and the passing of time can cause indifference to set in, but true friends care even when contact is limited. My best friends stuck with me as I grew exhausted caring for ageing parents and I stuck with them as they coped with divorce or illness or children. I know these people are a fixture in my life now.

I always had a lot of freinds, I was actually considered popular, I was good at friendship and I liked people. I even enjoy being in crowds. Yet I'm somewhat shy, and sensitive to criticism. A weird combination, maybe. Anyhow, as I got older I just socialized less and less, and now I spend most of my free time alone. Part of it is that I work with the public, and partly just want to be alone when I come home.

Parents gone. Best friend committed suicide. Mentor died. Another friend's moving across the country. A friend with benefits has moved on.

I'm hoping things get better but...

I have a friend I see every Saturday night, we've been friends for 45 years. He's a great guy with the best sense of humor. We usually laugh until we cry. We watch MLB games on his big screen tv and in the off season old movies. It's very relaxing and fun.

R274, that's the goal.

Interesting that R271 and R274 and others who have described what sound that very good friendships describe the rewards of friendship without ever listing driving home a friend from surgery or helping someone move house. They describe the pleasure and emotional benefits of solid friendships, but a tit for tat scorekeeping of "who will be there for them" to clip their gnarly tusk-like old toenails is never mentioned - almost as though that it is not whole point of having friends, as so many friendless posters complain.

There's real pleasure and vitality in friendship, nevermind that one friend is not like another, that one you can depend on to offer help and the other not (though his kindness may surprise you in other ways.).

I have a friend who manages almost always to be at the airport to collect me when I arrive home. Other friends might not be relied on to remember that I was away, but they are friends all the same. Assuming all your friends must pass a test of absolute loyalty and dedication "to always be there for you" in the way that you want seems a way to narrow the field of friends to quite possibly none.

For you.

I don't like Facebook but I went on it once and found out one of my friends since childhood invited every friend from our old friend group - together since elementary school - to her daughter's wedding, except me. She later wrote me an email, when she found out I had seen the picture of them all at the wedding - on her Facebook - that was a non-apology apology ("Sorry you felt you should have been there...").

She said she left it up to her daughter, and her daughter had only met me once or twice, while she had gone on ski vacations with the others. I this would be up to the mother, to invite her own friends, not the daughter. Unfortunately, none of them made me feel better about or seemed to care if I went or not - so I don't see them much any more. Just funerals.

That must be so frustrating and sad, R278. Obviously, we can't sacrifice our self-respect and have to draw a line, but it's sad when that comes at a high price.

That sounds shitty, R278. Something similar happened to me. I was the one to actually introduce two of my friends to each other. Next thing you know, they left me out of something that I had initiated (dress up on Halloween, go out, etc.). I blamed one friend more than the other.

I'm still the type to introduce people to each other and I won't stop doing that.

R278 fuck her and her daughter. I hope they get divorced.

[quote] Now you're not only supposed to be thin-skinned -- for example, dropping a lifelong friend because of a political opinion -

r270 It isn't quite a simple as that. As someone who just lost my best friend because he was a closet MAGA, it is a whole testing of one's values, common sense and personal integrity. If someone doesn't jive with these, they are hard to be around. That is why they say the Civil War pitted 'brother-against-brother'.

R287 anything I'm left out of makes me happy. It's easier than turning down invitations.

R283 you’re a better man than me. I get a sick thrill out of RSVPing “no”. Elaborate made-up excuses make it even more fun.

Thinking that I need to supplement/match my close family relationships with friends, so I have a support system in case anything happens, but also to expand my world and horizons, find out who I am beyond my own enclave, and give me a chance to develop myself and contribute to the lives of others beyond my own relative circle. I have been a recluse for more or less a decade, except for sporadic occasional bursts of social activity every few years, so I will need a consistent way to meet new people in the same setting for a while to make it happen. I'm gonna aim to make two or three decent new friends within a year, probably going through dozens of people to find them. Is that a feasible goal?

R280 Been there, done that, too.

How do you make friends when everyone bores you? Or is that just an old man thing?

Some gotta win, some gotta lose. Good time Charlie’s got the blues.

Part of me wishes I did but another part doesn’t. People my age tend to still be in a endless party phase, I’m too boring. I feel like if I find friends cool but I’m not looking. I’m 29 btw

When you're younger, you many have lots of friends. However, once your maybe 45 or beyond, you only need a couple close friends, that's enough.

So many people now seems to drop people quickly or exclude them for no good reason ("I didn't think you'd want to come".) Can any eldergays out there let me know if this has always been the case?

R291: It's something that I find curious, too, especially on DL friendship threads. I certainly understand that one aspect of aging is to place a higher value on ones time, and to shed the delusion of youth that their circles of friends will just grow and grow through life and in the end they will be surrounded by a vast network of lovely friends collected and cultivated over decades.

But fuck me, DLers will drop a friend of many years for the least perceived slight. They complain bitterly about their friends and then get humpty when no one volunteers to drive them to a colonoscopy. They weigh and measure down to the molecule how useful their friends are to them in a pinch without betraying a hint if affection. They don't miss the friends they cast out, only miss having someone/anyone to talk to (and drive them places.)

Apparently DLers never think to put their friends on a back burner and dislike the idea of friends who can go a long time apart and then fall in easily to conversation as if they see each other all the time. They prefer the drama of testing the devotion and cancelling their ex-friends with fanfare, carving another large notch of human grievance into their measuring sticks. Convinced that they have no true friends they are ablaze with hurry to rid themselves of any stragglers why haven't already fled or been cast out.

The “I didn’t think you’d want to come”’is the most passive aggressive BS there is.

Who run the world?

Extroverts, regrettably😔but introverts should cos we’re more sexy and intelligent!!!

R292 I hear you but I think it’s also complicated by the fact that straight women tend to phase out their gay friends once they get married and have children. I’ve seen a lot of discussions about that on DL over the years. So it’s not so much DLers casting off people, but more getting tired of being treated like shit by fraus they were really close with in their 20s and now feeling more like an afterthought.

I see the dramatic behavior you are talking about as well - but I think it can be tough unless you have a close circle of gay male friends. Straight women can be a selfish group who use their gay friends when they are younger and need them and then disappear. I’ve really only had that happen once and it wasn’t the end of the world, but I’ve read a lot of posts on DL describing very shitty situations where the dynamic shifts and suddenly the gay best friend becomes irrelevant.

There are exceptions to this clearly - some straight women are wonderful friends.

What's interesting to me about this thread is that some people's posts show exactly why it is that they have no friends, the very thing which they're bemoaning.

Very true, R295. Sometimes it's easier to see the writing on the wall than others. When a gay man refers to his straight female friend and confidante as his "hag," you see that selfishness isn't entirely one-sided.

To see a gay man whose only friends are his so-called hags is to see too many eggs placed on one basket. What gay man really thought he was going to keep up his Lucy and Ethel comedy fag/hag duo for life?

R293 A good response is "Well, how about you ask me and let me make that decision?".

Oh yes I hate when guys refer to their friends as hags. I know it’s supposed to be funny but it’s an awful word.

Honestly I just have parasocial relationships with famous people I’ll never meet lmao😂😂but not to the level of irl stalking or seeing or messaging them for real in person or anything, that’s just crazy

10/10 recommend maladaptive daydreaming up celeb friends though. they’re all so nice to me and very supportive and fun in my Dream World!!!

Lollll yes R300 - maladaptive daydreamers unite.

[quote] Honestly I just have parasocial relationships with famous people I’ll never meet lmao

Oh, sweetie~ darlin'. You know meee! That's all one needs worrying about! Ha!

....

Since age 50 I have made new friends, only they all seem to be younger, and I'm not trying to make younger friends. Because of my job, and my interests, I've made friends with some straight, some gay guys who when I met them were between 25 and 40. The straight ones get married and then their wives don't really want to be friends with me, in the sense of going out and doing things, and I don't press it, because I'm very conscious of being an older, desperate-looking third wheel.

It's funny but my mom and dad also made younger friends. Like me, they (especially my mom) were not the type who gets stuck in their era. While not being overt about it (no weird clothes, or trying to look young, or whatever) my mom continued to be into new TV shows, movies, music, and me even more so. It's just my tastes, and no effort to be current. It's not something embarrassing. Anyhow, I find a lot of my old, older friends set in their ways, and older people I meet tend to be very set in their ways, and to live in the past, culture-wise.

I'd like a friend whom I could just hang out with and watch videos or go on a hike or just do nothing with.

I had one. He's gone now.

I had another. He moved on and it's not feasible to see him anymore.

I miss them both terribly and I hope someone else comes into my life that helps fill that void.

I have some younger friends. I politely decline if they ask me to go out with them. If they are married, i ask them to bring spouses and children. Then i spend my time talking to the kids.

I had a younger friend who I was hanging out with; movies, having breakfast; all very easy going and casual; one day I texted him to ask if he wanted to hang out.

Said he couldn't but we'd do a movie soon.

Later, a mutual friend said he was there when my 'friend' got the text and he said, 'Ug. I don't know how to say no to this guy.'

Two things:

1. Ouch.

2. You sort of said no just fine.

I stopped asking to hang out. The 'friend' still asks me if I can help him with his career. I just put him off. I don't need fake friends.

R307 that really sucks but I’m glad your mutual friend told you. I always worry about that when I have younger friends.

R305 if Muriel would just create the DL friend finder app already I would do those things with you.

Not a one. The boyfriend died. After 41 years.

I doubt I will ever get over that.

Actually, I might give the mutual friend the side-eye. It sounds like a hurtful thing to relay back to R307.

R310 very hurtful in the moment but I feel like better to know if some younger person you consider a friend is telling people “ugh how do I say no this guy?”

Unless the mutual friend is exaggerating or misrepresenting.

Am one of the chronically-friendless previous posters above (can't remember which reply was mine, now), and on reflection I wonder if parental modelling is part of my issue with having no social life. Not blaming my folks for it, but wondering if the fact that they've had few friends over the years and no consistently active social life has imprinted on me. They don't even socialise with neighbours or community, really, just exist in a little family-only bubble with the occasional colleague or old school friend coming by a few times a year. They brought me up in a remote location and sent me to school hours from home (the next city over, on public transport), which didn't help with socialising growing up, either.

As a kid and teen I was always either left to my own devices or encouraged to look after/occupy my younger sister. By the time I went away to College at 19, all that conditioning to keep to myself or with family, plus a few juicy traumas I'd received in highschool (iatrogenic abuse by my doctor+near suicide of a loved one+failed scholarships/exams+breakdown) meant that I became a literal hermit at University. Surrounded by friendly relaxed peers on my intellectual level, I felt emotionally-crippled and couldn't speak to any of them for almost a year. By the time I screwed up the courage to even trying spending time connecting with others, the whole campus had written me off as weird, crazy, antisocial, hostile. Ever since, I've just drifted from aimless unfulfilling low-paying job to the next, town to town, talking to people but feeling nothing that entices me into intimacy.aQ

Wish like Hell I could turn the clock back and do it over, but I fear it's too late for me now. I've never been shown a normal healthy model for how to get and stay actively engaged as a socially-connected person, and I'm not convinced it's something an adult can learn or be taught. Even imagining a group of friends or a partner of my own feels weird, alien, exhausting.

R312 I think the fact that you were able to articulate all that so clearly means that you could connect with people. It’s not too late. You seem to have a lot of insight into yourself and that makes me think you would have insight into others as well. A group of friends might seem exhausting to you and a partner - please I hear you - but one friend you could likely manage.

Obviously what do I know - but a lot of what you wrote resonates with me - it’s so difficult to change. But it’s not too late.

[quote]can't remember which reply was mine, now

You've written about twenty posts.

R314 cool, thanks for taking time to remind me. How forgetful on my part!

Thoughts can tend to overload my mind, so sometimes a vent occurs. Easy to tell that you don’t share that particular affliction. Perhaps you can have a giggle about that with your numerous friends, who don’t post critically here about others with more complex lives and circumstances and ideas.

^^that was a great burn. I like you!

R312, my mom moved to her current place in 2018. She told me, aside from her children, no one had visited her in her new apartment. It was devastating to hear. As much as I feel like I have very few deep social connections, my mom doesn't have a single friend. She keeps in touch with people from another of her life by phone but she doesn't have a single person who she actually sees or do things with. She continues to work because it's the only interaction she has with people. I've encouraged her to be more proactive about socializing. At 70 though, it is unlikely she's going to change things now. She can be difficult and hard headed.

R307, thanks for support; I figured this being DL I'd get 'why are you being friends with someone younger you old fool!'

The mutual friend was looking out for me. If he hadn't said that I'd be in a one way friendship.

The younger one, I suspect, is gay. and deeply closeted.

I THINK the younger one was starting to take baby steps to come out to me or himself. I've been there so I totally get it.

It's too bad b/c I liked them both. The mutual friend moved away. the kid I still see occasionally and he sometimes says oh, we've got to have lunch and catch up.

I'm like no. No, we don't.

[quote] She continues to work because it's the only interaction she has with people.

I'm like that too. And I'm ok with it. It's been pretty much the story my entire life. I think some of my work colleagues would consider themselves my friends.

[quote]others with more complex lives and circumstances and ideas

And you wonder why you have no friends and are still a virgin?

R316 thanks, I learned from the best here on DL.

R320 no, I don’t wonder—that’s the point. If you’d read any of my posts, you’d know that I have a sound understanding of the many probable reasons why. While the fault doesn’t lie entirely with me, these days I do make sure to take accountability for my own more impersonable traits, negative attitude, and unwillingness to trust. It’s a work-in-progress.

How do i know i have only work friends? I have noone to talk to over the weekend.

[quote]Later, a mutual friend said he was there when my 'friend' got the text and he said, 'Ug. I don't know how to say no to this guy.'

I never liked friends who told me (usually when I was in high school or college) about some friend who was really not a friend. I never did that to anyone, I didn't feel comfortable telling them that kind of thing. I always wonder if people who do that have an agenda and want you to fight with the other person. At least I hope you confronted the original friend to get both sides.

I've lost interest in keeping certain friends based on their Facebook posts alone. I got so sick of reading their mundane posts and their overall online presence was so annoying that I had no interest in calling them.

I think I overwhelm my friends when I see them. I get excited and ask too many questions. Some say they like that about me, but I wonder. My phone ain't ringing much in the past two years.

[quote] I never liked friends who told me about some friend who was really not a friend.

Me neither. What would the not-friend know about me anyway?

R326 Sorry, I don't get what you're saying.

At my old government job, there were a few people who worked past the age when they were eligible for their pension. So, they forfeited their pension in order to keep on working. Yes, they can collect pension after they stop working their gov't jobs, but they can't get back what they forfeited.

Sensible move, R328. A woman whom I know has been retired for less than a year and - as I had anticipated - is already a shadow of her former self. Of course that's not going to be everyone's story either.

R329 lmao I’m young and don’t work full time, reckon that shit would kill me before I’m 50😅but I’ve always had issues integrating with the Normies in the workplace so

R329, I don't think it's sensible to keep on working to stave off personal loneliness. My coworkers who kept on working (when eligible for full pension) were under-performers. The younger people were picking up the slack for these lonely, older, high-paid workers who were eligible for full pension.

[quote] A woman whom I know has been retired for less than a year and - as I had anticipated - is already a shadow of her former self.

r329 Perhaps, she will be like Phoenix rising out of the ashes!

Fair enough, R331/R328. I guess I meant that it was a sensible move, purely from the perspective of the individual in question and without regard to how it affects others.

I just got dumped from my straight boy friend cause he said I was high maintenance. Jeez. I made a cake for his birthday, what else does he want?

I had a friend. Then he died.

I only have a couple - mine mostly either moved overseas after university or are now parents who hang out with other parents.

I have had plenty of opportunities to make more friends but I prefer to hang out with my husband or just do stuff on my own. Social stuff isn't that fun if you're an extrovert and I have a lot of family in the city I live in.

Oops - I meant introvert, not extrovert

Thanks for clearing that up r337. We were all wondering....

Nope. I have datalounge and 4 dogs. That’s enough fir me

^can you adopt me too and we can be friends