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‘Friends’ creator’s $4M apology for lack of diversity: ‘I’m embarrassed’

“Friends” has long been criticized for its lack of diversity, but co-creator Marta Kauffman is finally ready to admit her failure — with a $4 million apology.

Kauffman, 65, initially struggled to grasp the “difficult and frustrating” criticisms of her television series, choosing to believe the successful show was being singled out, she told the Los Angeles Times.

But nearly two decades after the show wrapped, Kauffman has begun to see the error of her ways.

“I’ve learned a lot in the last 20 years,” Kauffman said in a Zoom interview. “Admitting and accepting guilt is not easy. It’s painful looking at yourself in the mirror. I’m embarrassed that I didn’t know better 25 years ago,” the television writer said.

The popular show, which ran from 1994 to 2004, features a group of six white, heterosexual best friends living in Greenwich Village — a famously gay neighborhood — in New York City — a historically diverse city.

Throughout the 10-year run of the show, the sitcom continued to whitewash New York City and rarely featured a character of color. “Friends” only introduced two recurring characters of color, both of whom were brought on as short-lived love interests for Ross.

Along with millions of other Americans, the 2020 murder of George Floyd pushed Kauffman to reckon with the country’s racist past and her own part in perpetuating systems of racism.

“I knew then I needed to course-correct,” she explained.

In an attempt to redeem herself, Kauffman pledged $4 million to her alma mater, Brandeis University, to fund an endowed chair in the school’s African and African American studies department, one of the oldest in the country.

The Marta F. Kauffman ’78 Professorship in African and African American Studies “will support a distinguished scholar with a concentration in the study of the peoples and cultures of Africa and the African diaspora” and “assist the department to recruit more expert scholars and teachers, map long-term academic and research priorities and provide new opportunities for students to engage in interdisciplinary scholarship,” the Waltham, Massachusetts-based university announced.

“It took me a long time to begin to understand how I internalized systemic racism,” Kauffman told Brandeis. “I’ve been working really hard to become an ally, an anti-racist. And this seemed to me to be a way that I could participate in the conversation from a white woman’s perspective.”

Last year, “Friends: The Reunion” aired to honor the iconic show, its beloved characters and die-hard fans. The show faced renewed calls to address its glaring lack of diversity, but Kauffman didn’t feel it was appropriate.

“I don’t know how the two were related. And I also don’t know how we could have addressed it in that context of that reunion, going into all the things we did wrong. And there were others,” she told the LA Times.

Kauffman has spoken out in recent years about her regrets from the show telling the Hollywood Reporter ahead of the reunion that there are “probably a hundred things I would have done differently,” but clarified that the cast was not consciously chosen to be entirely white.

However, her co-creator Kevin Bright doubled down on his choices noting the “chemistry” between Jennifer Aniston, Courteney Cox, Lisa Kudrow, David Schwimmer, Matt LeBlanc and Matthew Perry.

“I would have been insane not to hire those six actors. What can I say? I wish Lisa was black?” he told the Hollywood Reporter.

Kauffman told the LA Times that she has received “nothing but love” since announcing the $4 million pledge along with “people acknowledging it was long overdue.”

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by Anonymousreply 228July 16, 2022 3:11 PM

“In this case, I’m finally, literally putting my money where my mouth is,” Kauffman said. “I feel I was finally able to make some difference in the conversation.”

“I have to say, after agreeing to this and when I stopped sweating, it didn’t unburden me, but it lifted me up. But until in my next production, I can do it right, it isn’t over. I want to make sure from now on in every production I do that I am conscious in hiring people of color and actively pursue young writers of color. I want to know I will act differently from now on. And then I will feel unburdened.”

by Anonymousreply 1June 29, 2022 8:07 PM

"My name will live on at Brandeis! In perpetuity! And for virtue signalling, too!"

by Anonymousreply 2June 29, 2022 8:11 PM

Lol $4m measly dollars? A performative move because she’s read the climate and wants her $125m a year meal ticket to continue. She is “concerned” like Susan Collins.

by Anonymousreply 3June 29, 2022 8:12 PM

She’s really a dumb cunt for making every fugly, shrill, vocal fry whore with a trust fund move to NY to act like she’s Rachel Green.

by Anonymousreply 4June 29, 2022 8:14 PM

Nothing more nauseating than a guilty white liberal.

by Anonymousreply 5June 29, 2022 8:14 PM

Insane.

by Anonymousreply 6June 29, 2022 8:20 PM

Even the Catholic Church has abolished the purchase of Indulgences to buy your way out of sin and damnation.

by Anonymousreply 7June 29, 2022 8:21 PM

4 million? She spends that on waxing her snatch per year.

by Anonymousreply 8June 29, 2022 8:21 PM

This is fucking insipid to the point of embarrassment. It was a silly, popular sitcom about a bunch of white kids (adults?) living together. Call me a KKK Grand Dragon but there was a time when I lived with two other white roommates. Such scourges happen! When will these idiots stop groveling like pathetic, self-loathing fools? What a joke. That said, this is the same groveling individual who wrote "literally putting my money where my mouth is."

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by Anonymousreply 9June 29, 2022 8:22 PM

R9 the KKK would not accept 3 of those Friends.

by Anonymousreply 10June 29, 2022 8:24 PM

Her groveling "gift" will backfire on her.

by Anonymousreply 11June 29, 2022 8:26 PM

When will BET have the same realization?

by Anonymousreply 12June 29, 2022 8:28 PM

BET is white owned.

by Anonymousreply 13June 29, 2022 8:31 PM

I'm not one of those reflexively anti woke types. I think that the increased diversity in tv and movies is a very good thing ( sorry data loungers still living in 1955). But it's silly to hand wring or feel any guilt. 20 years have passed. It was a light hearted comedy show, it was never meant to be representative of NY as a whole. I suspect this whole apology is just a way to get ahead of some histrionic Buzzfeed article surely on the way. Then again the whiners having a meltdown when some black or asian person gets cast as a lead in a superhero film aren't any less annoying.

by Anonymousreply 14June 29, 2022 8:31 PM

R10, Monica and Ross (half-Jewish) and Joey (Italian Catholic)?

by Anonymousreply 15June 29, 2022 8:37 PM

Didn't they have a trans?

by Anonymousreply 16June 29, 2022 8:40 PM

R16 Morgan Fairchild played Chandlers trans parent.

by Anonymousreply 17June 29, 2022 8:42 PM

[quote] six white, heterosexual best friends

Oh, my sides!

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by Anonymousreply 18June 29, 2022 8:42 PM

Weren't Joey and Chandler gay but in the closet?

by Anonymousreply 19June 29, 2022 8:44 PM

Yes, according to a story I read on Nifty.

by Anonymousreply 20June 29, 2022 8:45 PM

But we were ON A BREAK!!

by Anonymousreply 21June 29, 2022 8:58 PM

Phoebe was bi. Why doesn't that count?

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by Anonymousreply 22June 29, 2022 9:08 PM

No R17. Morgan Fairchild played Chandler's mother. His trans father was played by Kathleen Turner.

by Anonymousreply 23June 29, 2022 9:26 PM

R15 they’re full Jewish, as is Rachel Green.

You’re right, Joey being Italian means he isn’t pure to White Brotherhoods.

So 4.

by Anonymousreply 24June 29, 2022 9:44 PM

The show was also criticized for WASPing up the Jewish characters. Rachel was sort of depicted as a JAP during season 1 but then after she was your normal WASPy frau. Monica too.

It wasn’t until later that it was acknowledged they are Long Island Jews.

by Anonymousreply 25June 29, 2022 9:46 PM

Marta Kauffman doesn’t have white guilt, does she? I assumed Jewish guilt. Although I don’t know how she identifies.

by Anonymousreply 26June 29, 2022 10:06 PM

They admitted they took away the Jewish characters “Jew” traits so the show would be a bigger hit, especially in Middle America. That’s why them being Jewish isn’t acknowledged until later seasons.

by Anonymousreply 27June 29, 2022 10:10 PM

She’s only donating to AA studies. Since when does diversity mean only blacks. She could have dispersed the money out to different minorities, but of course that’s not in trend.

by Anonymousreply 28June 30, 2022 12:32 AM

The creator of Living Single chipped in $200.

by Anonymousreply 29June 30, 2022 12:35 AM

The creator of FRIENDS should not be apologizing for the lack of diversity on the show because that is NOT what makes a good show. What makes for a good show is - good writing , good acting and good directing- which friends had NONE of of.

He should be apologizing for what a MEDIOCRE show Friends was.

by Anonymousreply 30June 30, 2022 12:41 AM

Meanwhile there's a cable TV channel called ALLBLK. But that's considered ok because being racist against whites is now in fashion.

by Anonymousreply 31June 30, 2022 12:41 AM

With the terrible state of the economy she should have donated to food banks.

by Anonymousreply 32June 30, 2022 12:43 AM

Lmaoooo

by Anonymousreply 33July 1, 2022 3:55 AM

She should be more embarrassed for working on that crappy show.

by Anonymousreply 34July 1, 2022 3:59 AM

Every show/movie that doesn’t cast a black MAIN cast member will be vilified. Asian, middle east and latino don’t complain and aren’t loud about it, so who cares about them.

by Anonymousreply 35July 1, 2022 4:01 AM

But is she also going to apologize for her white privilege?

by Anonymousreply 36July 1, 2022 4:03 AM

They really should've gone with the original plan and made Chandler gay.

by Anonymousreply 37July 1, 2022 4:04 AM

Ugly naked man was black!

by Anonymousreply 38July 1, 2022 4:04 AM

The whole statement is GAUCHE. And 4 million dollars is such an arbitrary amount. Give one million or give $20 million. Don't squeeze out four.

How are you parsing out the FOUR million dollars? I bet she has a reason. Equally racist. Guilt. Weird.

Friends did not need to have a black or latino major castmate. But they lived in New York and dated people and have other friends too, right? One of them is an actor, one is a hippie waitress and two of them are sluts. So you encounter some darker colors. In very positive and fun ways.

It's like SJP adopting Jennifer Hudson and now Miranda is really a MAN. Too much too little too late Deniece.

Just admit that you didn't think that way back then, but quite likely the opposite. You had a hit show and didn't want to muddy the waters or mess with success with ethnic characters OR love interests. Which is shameful enough. It's not a matter of being awokened. Or internalized anything. It's plain old status quo and everyday racism.

6 million dead Jews minus two wasp people on Friends = 4 million dollar donation!

by Anonymousreply 39July 1, 2022 4:36 AM

Too bad a gesture like this is taken badly, but perhaps should have been anonymously, or more quietly. Perhaps she's grown, and people should allow everyone to evolve, late bloomer or not.

She certainly could have not donated anything, and easily receded into the background. No good deed goes unpunished as it were. I'm fatigued that everything must be approached so cynically.

by Anonymousreply 40July 1, 2022 4:42 AM

I want a fucking apology for that bland, boring shit you called a show, Marta. Can I have $4M???

by Anonymousreply 41July 1, 2022 4:44 AM

It's a testament to human nature that indulgences will always be on the market for the right price.

by Anonymousreply 42July 1, 2022 4:46 AM

If her intent was to focus on African Americans, why didn't she donate these funds to one of the 101 Historically Black Colleges and Universities?

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by Anonymousreply 43July 1, 2022 4:49 AM

Too many forced apologies being given these days. She should just tell everyone to suck her cunt, like a proper lady would.

by Anonymousreply 44July 1, 2022 4:49 AM

Can't believe they had the same director as Will & Grace, but W&G was funny and Friends wasn't.

by Anonymousreply 45July 1, 2022 4:53 AM

Ridiculous. Even in 2022 most people hang out with their own racial groups. Yes, even in NY. I preferred Friends and Living Single because they didn’t pander like shows do now.

by Anonymousreply 46July 1, 2022 4:56 AM

[quote]R40 No good deed goes unpunished as it were. I'm fatigued that everything must be approached so cynically.

It’s a nice gesture. But the fact is, in the 21st Century, 4 mil. isn’t what it used to be.

Really, HOW much did she make off that show?? And how much does it still haul in, yearly? Go big or go home.

by Anonymousreply 47July 1, 2022 5:29 AM

Miriam Margolyes called her “a monster,” and that’s all I need to know.

[italic]LOCK ‘ER UP!

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by Anonymousreply 48July 1, 2022 5:34 AM

White liberals are so fucking embarrassing.

by Anonymousreply 49July 1, 2022 5:51 AM

If I were her I'd say nothing.

No artistic endeavor should explain itself. The show is what it is and will never be anything else. If you don't like it, inspire yourself to create one you do like, others might like it too.

by Anonymousreply 50July 1, 2022 6:01 AM

It was a different era. Can we please move on?

by Anonymousreply 51July 1, 2022 6:01 AM

A couple of Jews weren't diverse enough?

by Anonymousreply 52July 1, 2022 6:02 AM

Allegedly, there weren't any gays.

And trans hadn't been invented yet.

by Anonymousreply 53July 1, 2022 6:02 AM

Joey was fluid, but he didn't know it.

by Anonymousreply 54July 1, 2022 6:03 AM

Brandeis is a Jewish university, I cannot imagine lots of black students there other than those given scholarships to, you know, "black it up" a bit so they feel better about themselves!

It's all such performative foolishness.

by Anonymousreply 55July 1, 2022 6:09 AM

[quote]r53 Allegedly, there weren't any gays. And trans hadn't been invented yet.

[italic]Excuse [/italic]me?!

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by Anonymousreply 56July 1, 2022 6:14 AM

If Christine Jorgensen had been black she could have "thrown the first brick at Stonewall".

I mean, she wasn't there either, so why not!

by Anonymousreply 57July 1, 2022 6:36 AM

Interesting how both Friends and SATC were hugely popular tv show set in the same pre/post 9/11 era New York now facing the same diversity scrutiny over its mostly white characters.

While SATC addressed them through that obnoxious sequel this one just wrote a check and be done with it.

by Anonymousreply 58July 1, 2022 6:43 AM

"But that's considered ok because being racist against whites is now in fashion."

A pathetic snowflake whine deserves the sad trumpet sound to accompany it.

by Anonymousreply 59July 1, 2022 6:52 AM

R51 “It was a different era”

Nah it wasn’t the 1950’s, it was the 90’s.

“It was a different era” is NEVER going to stop with white people so stop justifying it.

by Anonymousreply 60July 1, 2022 6:53 AM

She's so full of shit. If she had the opportunity to go back in time to change the show, guaranteed she wouldn't. She knows where her bread is buttered.

by Anonymousreply 61July 1, 2022 6:53 AM

When do we et the apology of having no white people in Good Times?

by Anonymousreply 62July 1, 2022 6:54 AM

R53 Chandler was going to be gay.

by Anonymousreply 63July 1, 2022 6:54 AM

First season, half the main cast jewish, Ross’ girlfriend Julie is Chinese, Rachel’s boyfriend Paolo is Italian, is that not enough??

by Anonymousreply 64July 1, 2022 6:57 AM

Jesus fucking CHRIST. Can somebody just alter all reels already to this so people will shut the fuck up.

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by Anonymousreply 65July 1, 2022 7:12 AM

I'm going to disagree with a lot of statements above. I rarely watched Friends, but it took place in the same decade as Frasier and more than a decade after Golden Girls and Designing Women, and all of those other shows, while focusing on the white heterosexual main characters had a fair number of subplots involving gay characters and black characters. And they didn't take place in NYC, a melting pot of people and cultures. I completely agree that usually white people have white roommates and to pretend otherwise is nonsense. But a group of 6 white friends will usually have at least some black co-workers, gay friends, and other diverse people that could easily have been fodder for an episode or two per season on Friends. Some black people appeared on Friends occasionally, but their participation in the stories were usually quite brief and superficial. So I'm not judging the creator this show on our decade vs. Friend's time. I'm judging her on the basis of shows that were contemporaneous with Friends. There is a kind of funny cartoon on youtube about the black characters that DID appear on Friends.

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by Anonymousreply 66July 1, 2022 7:18 AM

R64, Asians don't count and only on DL do Italians count! This is all about black people - you will notice that black people have zero interest in "diversity" once a certain percentage of black people are involved. I'm not criticizing black people for that - in-group preference is normal - but let's not pretend that this is a coalition of the oppressed because it's very much about one group.

by Anonymousreply 67July 1, 2022 8:44 AM

That show always sucked.

by Anonymousreply 68July 1, 2022 9:23 AM

No thanks. I'm not white but I want to see white people fuck. I sexualize them to show dominance.

by Anonymousreply 69July 1, 2022 9:25 AM

Damn, R29 beat me to it.

by Anonymousreply 70July 1, 2022 10:18 AM

Could she BE anymore annoying?

by Anonymousreply 71July 1, 2022 10:19 AM

Can we discuss the diversity of The Cosby Show next?

by Anonymousreply 72July 1, 2022 10:33 AM

[quote]Asian, middle east and latino don’t complain and aren’t loud about it, so who cares about them.

That’s because in their delusional minds they are white (while actual white people laugh at them behind their backs).

by Anonymousreply 73July 1, 2022 10:42 AM

There is absolutely nothing she could have done that wouldn't have brought out the Datalounge moral superiority squad. Nothing. For example...

[quote] How are you parsing out the FOUR million dollars?

It is probably that amount because Brandeis determined that is the amount necessary for funding the position. But we have to shit all over everything because we are Datalounge!

by Anonymousreply 74July 1, 2022 10:46 AM

Have you tried to watch this show?

It's success is inexplicable.

by Anonymousreply 75July 1, 2022 10:48 AM

[quote]They really should've gone with the original plan and made Chandler gay.

Agree. Chandler and Monica were one of the worst TV couples ever.

by Anonymousreply 76July 1, 2022 11:52 AM

[quote]It's success is inexplicable.

Much like the presence of that apostrophe.

by Anonymousreply 77July 1, 2022 11:57 AM

[quote] I'm not one of those reflexively anti woke types. I think that the increased diversity in tv and movies is a very good thing

Because you’re an idiot with arrested development.

by Anonymousreply 78July 1, 2022 12:44 PM

Friends was one of the worst shows ever created. Watch it without the laugh track and see how funny it was.

by Anonymousreply 79July 1, 2022 12:45 PM

[quote] Brandeis is a Jewish university, I cannot imagine lots of black students there other than those given scholarships to, you know, "black it up" a bit so they feel better about themselves!

Honey, this JAP wants WHITE students to learn and teach African American studies. She’s so full of shit. She’s donating to a Jewish university, first and foremost because it’s Jewish, and told them to give the money to AA department, as if they need the money. She didn’t donate the money to a black university and for good reason. She every white bleeding heart Jewish female stereotype. She still crosses the street or clutches her bag when she see a negro walking down the street. Hit the schvoogie button!

by Anonymousreply 80July 1, 2022 12:50 PM

[quote] She didn’t donate the money to a black university and for good reason.

Yes. That reason is because it is her alma mater.

[quote] She still crosses the street or clutches her bag when she see a negro walking down the street.

You got all of this from right out of your prolapsed anus.

by Anonymousreply 81July 1, 2022 2:02 PM

[quote]The popular show, which ran from 1994 to 2004, features a group of six white, heterosexual best friends living in Greenwich Village — a famously gay neighborhood — in New York City — a historically diverse city.

I don't understand this. It's bullshit. Why apologize? Maybe they could have had more minority extras in the background or something, but this idea that 6 straight white people hung out and didn't have a lot of diversity in their friend group is not strange or out of the ordinary. It's the same thing with Sex and the City. Go to Instagram and look at the people posting pics of their friend groups. It's 2022 and there's not a whole lot of diversity. You don't see the producers of Living Single apologizing because their main cast was all black with little to no diversity. We're talking about silly TV shows.

by Anonymousreply 82July 1, 2022 2:43 PM

A good example of the disconnect between the world as it is and the world as social engineers would like it to be: the fact that mixed-race couples are something like 1% of British marriages but almost 50% of relationships depicted in advertising.

by Anonymousreply 83July 1, 2022 4:51 PM

I can't imagine Jerry Seinfeld groveling like this, even though his show got the same criticism.

The irony is that in real life, two of Jerry's best friends are black. Comedians George Wallace (Jerry's best man) and Mario "Maroon Golf" Joyner, both of whom appeared in small cameo roles on the show. I don't claim to know exactly why Larry David (who now has Leon on Curb) or Jerry had so few black characters on their show, but the main four were all based on real life people who were white. (Though apparently while George Costanza is basically Larry in almost every way, the first name itself comes from...George Wallace.)

by Anonymousreply 84July 2, 2022 12:43 AM

Seinfeld's whole cast was Jewish and played Jewish. They dated Jewish. They were NYC JEWS. Michael Richards says he felt Jewish, ha.

Jerry has lots of close black friends, including Wallace and Chris Rock.

Michael Richards WAS cancelled. More than one fucking grotesque anti semitic and disgust RACIAL epithet outburst. Jerry tried to make it better to not hurt DVD sales. Not a great move.

FRIENDS deserves the criticism more.

Let's give some credit to Roseanne - who was portraying a white suburban working class woman. Her show was INCLUSIVE and full of every DIVERSITY. This doesn't happen by accident.

by Anonymousreply 85July 2, 2022 1:22 AM

Diversity for the sake of diversity is not storytelling, it's social showboating and convinces few.

I couldn't care less about all this box checking, it is mainly performative piety, and a bit of a turn off in its phony virtue.

by Anonymousreply 86July 2, 2022 3:32 AM

Roseanne was not a phony show. Far from it. Performative piety was not her thing. She ignored the racist and sexual stereotypes and kept it to more normal life good natured jokes. No longer permitted. Too bad. Because guess what your poker buddy CAN be the black guy down the street. It was a show about class and power divides. Not racial and sexual classifications.

Friends AND Sex in The City both stand out as shows that could have and SHOULD have done much better. They were closeted 'reality.' I'm sure this was reflected in the smallest of casting decisions. Some people didn't belong in their circle or building. Or bed. For longer than one night.

It's amazing to me that some old white gays still think everything was ok. Just because they put some benevolent gay characters in these shows. Mostly minstrels. Mario Cantone's.

At least Will and Grace had SEX. Between attractive MEN.

by Anonymousreply 87July 2, 2022 4:00 AM

But it's okay that Living Single had no diversity?

by Anonymousreply 88July 2, 2022 4:04 AM

[quote] Diversity for the sake of diversity is not storytelling, it's social showboating and convinces few.

Ain't it the truth

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by Anonymousreply 89July 2, 2022 4:14 AM

Yes, it is. Simple as that R88. Affirmative. You're a moron. Keep bringing up that one show. What a fool.

by Anonymousreply 90July 2, 2022 4:17 AM

[quote]R86 Diversity for the sake of diversity is not storytelling, it's social showboating and convinces few. I couldn't care less about all this box checking

White male, by any chance?

by Anonymousreply 91July 2, 2022 4:20 AM

The Jeffersons had all black characters except the 1 husband who was played to look like a buffoon and called "honkey" on a regular basis. I'm waiting for an apology.

Good Times had zero diversity.

Martin was a group of 4 black characters with miscellaneous black supporting characters.

We already talked about Living Single.

What about Moesha? The Cosby Show? 227 ?

Guess what? It's ok that there was no diversity because they were shows about a microcosm of the American experience, where people commonly hang with their peeps. Kinda like Friends and Seinfeld.

by Anonymousreply 92July 2, 2022 6:46 AM

Hi, Marta here, and as I was at a spa for the weekend getting my fat folds oiled, this Mexican-looking woman came in and emptied the trash. At that moment it was like a lightning bolt hit me. I realized after all the years Friends has been off the air and all the years in syndication, I finally saw the light. I could have put more, you know, non-white people in the show. Sometimes the realization that you have done something wrong occurs after years of money pouring in, traveling, and buying huge houses, and you know just living life.

I told the Mexican-looking woman to pleas do that later as it was annoying. But I appreciate her effort and helping me see my errors. Besides, I have some projects to pitch.

by Anonymousreply 93July 2, 2022 6:57 AM

It was a smart move for Bridgerton to have Regé-Jean Page as the main face for their decision to engage in ahistorical casting. He's gorgeous.

by Anonymousreply 94July 2, 2022 8:33 AM

But wait! There's more! She is now apologizing for not knowing 20 years ago that transgender people would demand that everyone use their preferred pronouns! Oh My Fucking God! When will this end? It is insanity. You shouldn't shame people for past actions based on what is now FORCIBLY accepted in 2022. Utter nonsense.

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by Anonymousreply 95July 6, 2022 1:40 AM

Bowing to the trannies!

Are these dopes for real!

Some queen I know in show biz is reminding us all how "problematic" Bette Midler has been in the past with all the gender identity hogwash. I'm thinking, yeah SHE DOESN'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT THEIR NONSENSE!

The tide is turning, stay strong Marta! (although you sound like a fool!)

by Anonymousreply 96July 6, 2022 2:18 AM

r29 made me laugh out loud. I'll be joining him in hell.

by Anonymousreply 97July 6, 2022 2:26 AM

[quote]They really should've gone with the original plan and made Chandler gay.

If Friends started up today Chandler would be gay. But not on network tv in 1994. No way.

by Anonymousreply 98July 6, 2022 2:27 AM

[quote]Rachel’s boyfriend Paolo is Italian, is that not enough??

Italians are white Europeans, dear.

by Anonymousreply 99July 6, 2022 2:33 AM

Chandler was SOOOOOO gay. The hints were all over the place. In this instance I will say that Marta and her partner made the wrong decision. If they had made Chandler gay, no one really would have cared. AND Will and Grace wouldn't be getting all of the kudos it received for bringing gays into the American living room for all to accept. it would have been a one, two, we're done kind of thing.

by Anonymousreply 100July 6, 2022 2:34 AM

"If Friends started up today Chandler would be gay. But not on network tv in 1994. No way."

What made 1998 jso special for gays? Why would 1994 -- just four years earlier -- have been any different?

by Anonymousreply 101July 6, 2022 2:36 AM

[quote] She still crosses the street or clutches her bag when she see a negro walking down the street.

Turn your jewelry when you're in the city.

by Anonymousreply 102July 6, 2022 2:36 AM

r87 is the 'ancient white fags' troll. Pay him no mind.

by Anonymousreply 103July 6, 2022 2:39 AM

r101 you had to be there, I guess.

by Anonymousreply 104July 6, 2022 2:41 AM

"it would have been a one, two, we're done kind of thing."

Just to clarify: 1) The creators introduced a new hit show. And 2) They also introduced a leading gay man as a character.

I still don't understand why that could not have been done in 1994 instead of 1998.

by Anonymousreply 105July 6, 2022 2:43 AM

It took Ellen's coming out in '97 to change the landscape and it was a huge risk. Her sitcom had already been on for several years by then.

NBC knew they had a hit with Friends and in '94 they weren't going to risk that with a gay character.

I don't know how old you are but back in the 90s the pop culture landscape was very unaccepting of gay people. PBS got a shitstorm of controversy when they aired Tales of the City (which was quite tame by today's standards) and backed down on doing any sequels.

by Anonymousreply 106July 6, 2022 2:47 AM

[quote]If they had made Chandler gay, no one really would have cared.

In 1994 a network sitcom with a **gasp** GAY main character would've been very controversial and would've received all the media attention, overshadowing everything else about the show. "Friends" would've been "that show with the GAY GUY on it!"

You sound too young to remember what shit was like back then.

by Anonymousreply 107July 6, 2022 2:50 AM

[quote]If they had made Chandler gay, no one really would have cared.

Are you from some alternate universe 90s?

by Anonymousreply 108July 6, 2022 2:52 AM

Even if they made Chandler gay, it wouldn't just be him being gay. It'd be all his love interests. Too much faggotry as Blake Carrington would say. Or they'd make him a eunuch like Matt on Melrose Place.

by Anonymousreply 109July 6, 2022 2:57 AM

She’s a loon with a case of extreme white guilt.

by Anonymousreply 110July 6, 2022 3:04 AM

"U don't know how old you are but back in the 90s the pop culture landscape was very unaccepting of gay people. PBS got a shitstorm of controversy when they aired Tales of the City (which was quite tame by today's standards) and backed down on doing any sequels."

"You sound too young to remember what shit was like back then."

I would have been the same age the Friends characters were in 1994 as I was watching them in 1994. I was out, not confrontational, but definitely out. Everyone I knew accepted that I was gay. I was living in New York, which was teeming with gay men and women at the time, as it is now. Your excuses are revisionist bullshit, trying some reverse time-traveling rhetoric on a gay history that was already established. By the way, Tales of the City was a huge smash for PBS. Maybe there was some backlash, but it put PBS on the map in the early 90s. Can i say BULLSHIT one more time? Thank you! Marta?

by Anonymousreply 111July 6, 2022 3:19 AM

[quote]Everyone I knew accepted that I was gay. I was living in New York, which was teeming with gay men and women at the time, as it is now. Your excuses are revisionist bullshit,

Friends was a network sitcom targeted at a mainstream (Middle American) audience. It had nothing to do with what was actually going on in major metropolitan areas at the time. Yes, a gay character on a network sitcom was not feasible in 1994.

by Anonymousreply 112July 6, 2022 3:22 AM

r111 PBS got a ton of shit about Tales of the City and chickened out about doing a sequel. They totally caved into pressure.

Do you remember how controversial Ellen's coming out was in '97? And that was already an established sitcom, not a new one.

There was NO WAY in 1994 that NBC, CBS or ABC were going to have an openly gay character (esp. a gay MALE character) on a sitcom. End of story.

by Anonymousreply 113July 6, 2022 3:25 AM

Because no one had balls enough to try it. "Friends" was a ready-made it, just waiting to be unleashed on the masses. EVERYONE knew this would be huge from the get-go. That's why Ellen's show had to change its name from "These Friends of Mine." Her show debuted six months before "Friends." NBC knew they had a hit.

by Anonymousreply 114July 6, 2022 3:25 AM

Oh, your experience with gay acceptance living in NYC in the 90s was happy happy joy joy. Shocking. Talk about revisionist.

by Anonymousreply 115July 6, 2022 3:27 AM

Look: Who are you to question what I lived through in the early 90s? You weren't standing next to me. It was fine. Sometimes good, sometimes not. It was just life. Just like "Friends" was supposed to capture. I honestly do not care about Chandler not coming out as gay. (Although, as written, he certainly was and he would definitely have some 'splainin' to do to Monica shortly after they moved to the suburbs.) Why they could not have opened the door, instead of Ellen, and then have the door knocked down by Will and Grace, just seems silly to me. It was just four years. I didn't see any change in my life during those four years Why did Hollywood?

by Anonymousreply 116July 6, 2022 3:34 AM

"Oh, your experience with gay acceptance living in NYC in the 90s was happy happy joy joy. Shocking. Talk about revisionist."

Oh, and by the way R115, do you own a dictionary? if so, use it.

by Anonymousreply 117July 6, 2022 3:37 AM

R116, just stop it. I thought you were just being naive, but it is clear that you are just trying to stir the pot. No one is that naive, especially anyone who lived in the 90s.

by Anonymousreply 118July 6, 2022 3:37 AM

STFU, R118? Who the fuck are you?

by Anonymousreply 119July 6, 2022 3:38 AM

Goodbye Marta.

by Anonymousreply 120July 6, 2022 3:46 AM

“Friends” had TWO openly gay characters from the get-go, R116, so it can be argued they opened the door for Ellen.

by Anonymousreply 121July 6, 2022 4:23 AM

And maybe the lesbians did open the door for Ellen. But no one had the nerve to take a chance on having a main character being gay. And you know that.

by Anonymousreply 122July 6, 2022 4:26 AM

I think I saw an Asian actress in the background of the coffee shop in that first episode. Maybe they opened the door for all Asian actors on TV as well?

by Anonymousreply 123July 6, 2022 4:27 AM

^^ do you have someone you can talk to about your concerns, in real life?

You sound quite hysterical.

by Anonymousreply 124July 6, 2022 4:33 AM

Above intended for the distressed r95:

[quote] But wait! There's more! She is now apologizing for not knowing 20 years ago that transgender people would demand that everyone use their preferred pronouns! Oh My Fucking God! When will this end? It is insanity. You shouldn't shame people for past actions based on what is now FORCIBLY accepted in 2022. Utter nonsense.

by Anonymousreply 125July 6, 2022 4:36 AM

“Friends” are a worldwide phenomenon (not that many Americans care about the world beyond America or are even aware of its existence). To this day, channel surfing in a lot of countries will bring up an episode of “Friends,” and you can find a “Central Perk” or see (young) people wearing tees with “FRIENDS” written on them in THAT obnoxious lettering all over the world, from Argentina to Japan. Not “Seinfeld” or “Will and Grace” or “Living single” or “The Cosby show” or any other show that the DL deems vastly superior to “Friends.” And in many of the countries “Friends” have been aired, the show has been revolutionary in its acceptance of gay marriage or the acknowledgement of trans people (and many other things, like sex outside the marriage, etc).

by Anonymousreply 126July 6, 2022 4:40 AM

Friends really is a worldwide phenomenon, crossing language and cultural barriers. It's huge in Asian countries, for example. The other shows r126 mentioned are only popular in the US.

by Anonymousreply 127July 6, 2022 4:44 AM

I wonder how her rich showbiz pals privately feel about what she did. "Honey, do we have to do this too?"

by Anonymousreply 128July 6, 2022 4:46 AM

I honestly thought that having Kathleen Turner as Chandler's drag queen father was brilliant! She was perfect!

by Anonymousreply 129July 9, 2022 7:44 AM

I love the smell of white guilt in the morning.

by Anonymousreply 130July 9, 2022 7:58 AM

R30, puleaze. Mediocrity = $$$$$$!

by Anonymousreply 131July 9, 2022 8:03 AM

I think they handled the whole trans/drag thing fine. I mean it was 20+ years ago and Kathleen Turner was hilarious! What is there to apologize for. At least they talked about drag queens, right?!

by Anonymousreply 132July 9, 2022 8:04 AM

And this was BEFORE that bore RuPaul went all to church on our asses about drag-queening. She needs to stop it.

by Anonymousreply 133July 9, 2022 8:05 AM

Can't STAND RuPaul. Drag is SO 1950's. Like blackface in the movies.

by Anonymousreply 134July 9, 2022 8:09 AM

Oh, for God's sake. This is ridiculous!

by Anonymousreply 135July 9, 2022 8:11 AM

What's so awful about blackface?

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by Anonymousreply 136July 9, 2022 8:15 AM

It was called Friends. They played it white for realism. They wanted it to be believable.

by Anonymousreply 137July 9, 2022 8:41 AM

If she really cared, she would have given it to a black university. She didn’t because they’re not Jews. That’s all she cares about. A typical JAP. There’s probably one black person in that place. The fact that she would even announce this is embarrassing. No self-awareness.

by Anonymousreply 138July 9, 2022 12:07 PM

Why are blacks on every show and television commercial when they only represent like 14 percent of the US population? I cannot relate.

by Anonymousreply 139July 9, 2022 10:04 PM

And on that note R139, how many whiteys feature in tv programmes in Zimbabwe, Nigeria etc etc? What's the representation of white people in the media of non-White communities?

by Anonymousreply 140July 9, 2022 10:07 PM

Ross had a black love interest. A very pretty doctor.

So there.

by Anonymousreply 141July 9, 2022 10:11 PM

Whitey? Racist much?

by Anonymousreply 142July 9, 2022 10:16 PM

If I don't have "Friends" to shit all over to feel morally superior to very successful people, I mean, then WHO am I?

by Anonymousreply 143July 9, 2022 10:22 PM

Nobody cares about this old ass show. I'm so sick of hearing about this manufactured controversy. I'm black and let's get real. Upper-class white and Jewish New Yorkers are extremely cliquish and would only associate with each other. Rachel, Monica and Ross are all upper-class Jews from Long Island who honestly they would not even associate with types like Joey and Phoebe. I don't think Chandler is a New York native, he seems Midwestern or New Englander, definitely upper-class too. I don't remember where the fuck Phoebe was from or why she would even be friends with that group of people to begin with. Working-class New Yorkers have diverse friend groups. Anyway, I don't look to sitcoms for documentaries. Nobody is discussing how inaccurate Baywatch and 90210 are to Southern California (no Asians, Middle Easterners or Hispanics). Or Dukes of Hazzard is to rural Georgia (no blacks in Hazzard County made no sense).

by Anonymousreply 144July 9, 2022 10:29 PM

1. Eldergays HATE Friends because it made them feel old--the Friends were clearly from a younger generation--and because it didn't adhere to the structure or tone of the 1960s-80s sitcoms they loved. Which is why time pretty much froze for many of them in 1987

2. It continues to blow my mind that DLers don't get that Rachel Green was supposed to have been Jewish. She was Every Single JAP Stereotype Ever rolled up into a single character. Like Rachel:JAP = Jack (W&G): Gay.

3. People like the Friends generally don't have Black friends. They have friends who are just like them. The fact that Phoebe was part of their group was a stretch. But regardless--why is having a show about a group of white friends a bad thing? Are we supposed to fault writers like Updike and Cheever because their novels don't have black main characters? Wokeness will not age well--history will mock it.

by Anonymousreply 145July 9, 2022 10:31 PM

Ha R144!

Great minds and all that.

You are 100% correct though-- it's a sitcom, not a documentary. And to your point, the focus on Friends is curious as so many other shows from that era and prior were not diverse -- thinking of 80s shows like Family Ties and the one with Allan Thicke or even DL Fave Golden Girls--why no complaints that the old ladies were all white?

So silly

by Anonymousreply 146July 9, 2022 10:34 PM

^^R145

by Anonymousreply 147July 9, 2022 10:35 PM

Also, the back story was that Chandler was Ross's college roommate, which is why he is part of the crew-that made perfect sense

by Anonymousreply 148July 9, 2022 10:39 PM

R145 Jennifer Aniston isn't Jewish (though she could pass for it and she grew up in NYC and has that attitude). Courteney Cox is not Jewish either (she does not pass at all and her Southern accent kept slipping in). David Schwimmer is stereotypically Jewish and has a NY accent. So I can get not knowing Monica was Jewish because Courteney is a terrible actress and she does not look or sound like a Long Island Jewish woman would. But Jennifer Aniston's Rachel is so stereotypical, you'd have to be blind or deaf. In later seasons, she turned into pothead Jennifer Aniston phoning it in, so I so could get someone maybe not realizing it. But early seasons, she was a walking JAP stereotype.

Fun fact, Lisa Turtle from Saved by the Bell was written to be a JAP. But the producers were so impressed by Lark Vorhees, they rewrote Lisa to be a spoiled rich Black princess and it worked. Tons of rich Black girls in Southern California. Hillary and Ashley Banks from Fresh Prince played those parts well too. And Whitley from A Different World as well as a stuckup Southern light-skinned rich girl.

by Anonymousreply 149July 9, 2022 10:39 PM

R146 Someone on DL mentioned Growing Pains was set in Long Island and it blew my mind. I always assumed it was some Midwestern suburb because they talked so slow and calmly. Definitely didn't seem like Long Island and they didn't even try to make it seem realistic. Home Improvement did not look or feel like Detroit in any way. Just like how Queer as Folk didn't seem like Pittsburgh.

TV writers seem to just throw a dart at a map and randomly set sitcoms or dramas anywhere but all portray it the same neutral all-American suburbia.

by Anonymousreply 150July 9, 2022 10:47 PM

Agree R149 except there's a whole episode with Ross and the Hanukkah Armadillo and since Ross is Monica's brother....

NBC execs in the 90s, especially the Jewish ones, were very worried that their three hit shows - Friends, Seinfeld and Mad About You--were all about New York Jews and they were convinced that this would detract from their appeal to mainstream America and would give ammunition to the "Jews Control The Media" bigots.

They realized that if would be next to impossible to make Reiser, Seinfeld and Jason Alexander seem like Gentiles, so they toned down the Jewishness on Friends and made George Italian and Elaine a WASP of sorts (though Benes is a Czech name)

Oddly, the most Jewish show ever on TV was "Transparent," where when not focused on trans, plots revolved around Jewish holidays, bat mitzvahs and rabbis

by Anonymousreply 151July 9, 2022 10:50 PM

Jason Alexander is not Jewish.

Wonder when Scorsese will apologize for hardly casting women in his movies. Women, who make up more than half of the population.

by Anonymousreply 152July 9, 2022 10:56 PM

R123 Most people forgot about Ross's Asian girlfriend Julie.

by Anonymousreply 153July 9, 2022 10:58 PM

R152 He isn’t insane so he won’t.

by Anonymousreply 154July 9, 2022 10:59 PM

R151 I don't think the Seinfeld whitewashing worked. Maybe George as Italian could work because working-class NY Jews and Italians have basically the same traits and stereotypes. Though Jerry Stiller and Estelle Harris who played his parents still seemed more Jewish than Italian. And Jews play Italians all the time like in Golden Girls and Everybody Loves Raymond though it doesn't really fool people especially Northeastern natives. Elaine as a WASP was comical, Julia Louis-Dreyfus is as NY Jewish as can get and she's also Hispanic and French and other things. The humor in Friends was broad enough to be widely syndicated around the globe. Seinfeld isn't a globally known because the humor is too NY-specific.

by Anonymousreply 155July 9, 2022 11:00 PM

Yeah, I don't Seinfeld ever caving and doing something like this.

by Anonymousreply 156July 9, 2022 11:02 PM

R150 I do recall a few episodes of Growing Pains where they mentioned going into "The City".

by Anonymousreply 157July 9, 2022 11:04 PM

I don't know why they even bothered to set Friends in NYC. All of those characters were so fucking LA except for maybe Chandler.

by Anonymousreply 158July 9, 2022 11:08 PM

R156 If he did it didn't work because everyone still thought Elaine and George were Jewish. George has an Italian last name but doesn't mean he can't be Jewish or partially Jewish. Benes still sounds "exotic" and not Anglo like Johnson, Smith, Hamilton, Carter, etc.

by Anonymousreply 159July 9, 2022 11:08 PM

It is true that Boomers hated Friends because it reminded them that they were getting old and they weren't the center of pop culture anymore.

by Anonymousreply 160July 9, 2022 11:09 PM

they should have set Friends in Boston if they were so hellbent on non-diversity.

by Anonymousreply 161July 9, 2022 11:10 PM

Rachel Green who was supposed to marry Barry The Dentist didn’t clock as a total JAP from day one? Maybe people outside of the NYC metro area don’t know about this stereotype.

by Anonymousreply 162July 9, 2022 11:13 PM

Every single year this topic about Friends and diversity is brought up and I'm sick of hearing about it. It was a sitcom from 1994. And it's mostly white liberal types who bring this topic up all the time. I'm black and never thought about it much because I was never a regular viewer when it was on and I don't anyone in my family or friend group that really watched it either. I caught a few episodes on TV here and there and recently watched the first season on HBO Max. My assessment was it's a corny, sentimental feelgood show about immature adults who act like high schoolers in a clique. The fact they could afford to live in Manhattan in big ass apartments already challenged my suspension of disbelief but the most realistic thing was that of course a group of upper-class white vapid New Yorkers who hang out with clones of themselves. Joey and Phoebe were the outliers of the group.

by Anonymousreply 163July 9, 2022 11:15 PM

No self respecting black person would have socialised with the group from Friends anyway, so it was accurate to life. They were all bland as fuck.

by Anonymousreply 164July 9, 2022 11:17 PM

R162 Also her nose job and her friend Mindy (played by Jennifer Grey) who also had a nose job.

by Anonymousreply 165July 9, 2022 11:20 PM

It's exactly because of this totally fake white guilt that Netflix is experiencing a tidal wave of people unsubscribing en masse. The Woke are tiring everyone. America and its history is tiring the whole planet, especially the West, which has to endure the whining of one another, which does not necessarily correspond to their history. The Americans and their obsession with race has broken the West. This way of seeing things is yours alone, Stop making the rest of the world suffer. We have seen enough of your navel-gazing and narcissism. The rest of the West wants to move on without YOUR obsession with race.

America had some great shows in the 90s, and I really think Friends was one of them. As someone above said, people watch a show for entertainment, not to see a documentary, damnit! Americans used to be able to make good shows of very good quality, but now everything has become political, and necessarily progressive. If you would get your fingers out of your ass and stop navel gazing you'd see that the rest of the Western world has had enough, really enough.

by Anonymousreply 166July 9, 2022 11:21 PM

JFC this is bullshit. One of the main attributes of sitcoms is they're a reflection of their creators' lives. If that was her experience, who the fuck cares if it wasn't diverse? She shouldn't apologize for shit. Her co-creator is right. The real issue is not having *other creators* from diverse backgrounds get a shot to tell their stories. That, and casting a wide net for tech/below the line positions to include HBCUs, etc. That's on TPTB, not on her.

If she wanted to pander to this garbage, she could at least use that money to endow an HBCU film/television studies department, or marginalized arts scholarships--something that would actually make a difference.

by Anonymousreply 167July 9, 2022 11:22 PM

R164 Not just black people but the actual cool NYers who go to clubs and are involved with the arts and music would not associate with them either. So Phoebe was really a poser because if she was a free-spirited hippie chick why hang out with vapid and obnoxious yuppies?

by Anonymousreply 168July 9, 2022 11:24 PM

The reason why Friends was targeted was because young Millenials and Gen Zers discovered Friends on the streaming services. If you all recall, Friends went through something of a resurgence a few years back. Articles and think pieces were written about it. This is why so much attention is the show and its lack of diversity.

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by Anonymousreply 169July 9, 2022 11:26 PM

[quote] Jason Alexander is not Jewish.

Da fuk?

Jay Scott Greenspan from Livingston, NJ is about as Jewish as they come R152

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by Anonymousreply 170July 9, 2022 11:27 PM

Does Gen Z really love Friends though? I mean I know a few that do but I feel Millennials were more into it because most were teens and kids when Friends was on and watched it along with Gen X.

by Anonymousreply 171July 9, 2022 11:28 PM

R169 This could only come from Gen Z. This hateful generation fed on wokeism on social medias.

by Anonymousreply 172July 9, 2022 11:29 PM

Most Gen Z I know seem more into The Office, How I Met Your Mother, Malcolm in the Middle and That 70s Show than Friends.

by Anonymousreply 173July 9, 2022 11:30 PM

The Office was super good. Malcom too.

by Anonymousreply 174July 9, 2022 11:31 PM

R144 how many white people et al. do YOU hang out with? You cute little thing you.

by Anonymousreply 175July 9, 2022 11:32 PM

Gen Z bitched a few years back about how Chandler mistreated his drag queen father.

by Anonymousreply 176July 9, 2022 11:32 PM

R162 and R165 - and her father was a rich doctor who spoiled her...and that she wasn't ever actually supposed to work, just marry a doctor, lawyer or dentist.... and when she finally got a job it was as a buyer for Bloomingdale's and then eventually Ralph Lauren... and even though Marlo Thomas is actually Lebanese, casting her and Ron Leibman as Rachel's parents... this list goes on, but, to your point, if you are not familiar with the culture you are likely to miss it.

by Anonymousreply 177July 9, 2022 11:34 PM

R176 Gen Z is bitching about anything and everything. This generation seems to be H-24 on the Internet with no parental supervision and especially no other activities. A spoiled and rotten to the bone generation that gets offended for anything, that nobody can stand anymore on social medias.

by Anonymousreply 178July 9, 2022 11:36 PM

Yes R171 - it enjoyed quite a revival among teens and pre-teens when it was on Netflix and they could binge it. It also became very popular in the UK with teens there for the same reason

by Anonymousreply 179July 9, 2022 11:37 PM

R175 I hung out with some because I grew up in a town in the Northeast which was predominately white, these were just middle-class or working-class kids though. But rich white people generally stick to their own because most grow up in small, insular communities and generally feel comfortable around each other. If there's an "other" it's usually Jewish, East Asian or Middle Eastern who are also from a wealthy background. When I went to college I noticed it, when I worked at a Starbucks I noticed it and when I go to NYC or Philly, I notice it. Most people are friends with people who share a similar interest, background or occupation. Working class people live in more integrated environments and have more diverse workplaces (hospitals, government buildings, construction, retail, restaurants, warehouses, public transit, etc).

by Anonymousreply 180July 9, 2022 11:38 PM

Any other Millennials thrilled that the Eldergays are blaming All The World's Evils on Zoomers now and not us?

by Anonymousreply 181July 9, 2022 11:38 PM

Kathleen Turner was a joy on that show, apparently the cast was not so hot to her.

by Anonymousreply 182July 9, 2022 11:38 PM

They used to air Friends repeats in the UK in the early evenings, five days a week. It was Friends and two godawful Australian soap operas which got the biggest ratings. English people have the blandest taste.

by Anonymousreply 183July 9, 2022 11:39 PM

As an upper middle class Jew who is about 15 years younger than the Friends R180, this is still largely true with people my age. We all sort of know each other from growing up in the same towns, going to the same sleepaway camps, teen tours, Birthright trips, frats and sororities, etc.

Many DLers may be unfamiliar with what's known as "Jewish Geography" which is a meme for what happens when two Jewish people who don't know each other meet but can quickly establish a half dozen people they know in common.

Something like this:

"You're went to Scarsdale? Do you know Emily Schwartz?"

"Emily Schwartz who went to Syracuse or Emily Schwartz who went to Wash U?"

"Syracuse."

"Yes, We were on the same soccer team. How do you know her?"

"Camp. We were in the same bunk at Taconic."

"OhMyGawd! So you know Zach Goldberg from Chappaqua?"

"He works at Goldman now?"

"Yes! He and my brother were in ZBT together at Penn!"

And so on and so on....

by Anonymousreply 184July 9, 2022 11:46 PM

I'm all for diversity, but I think people have forgotten how people make close friends. There are 3 basic times when you're in friend making mode. Growing up with the people in your neighborhood, high school, and college/20s. The only really diverse friend groups that I remember was high school among the jocks and even that was limited. Not having close friends of a different race doesn't make a person racist.

by Anonymousreply 185July 9, 2022 11:47 PM

R67 The next Americans after white people. It’s not about diversity it’s about the representation of Americans.

That’s something white people like yourself refuse to understand. Black Americans aren’t immigrants or foreigners and the majority of them are more American than probably over half the white US population based on the fact that their descendants have been in this country longer.

Based on my DNA, my black American genetics descend from Central America - that’s EARLY 1600’s period of slave trade. My family is as old as WASPS but the respect isn’t there.

So yes that’s what separates black people from Asians and Latinos. Slave ships from hundreds of years ago.

by Anonymousreply 186July 9, 2022 11:48 PM

I'm tired of these endless virtue signaling and gestures from rich people. And honestly people are way too obsessed with pop culture. TV is a escapist fantasy and the whole medium was created to sell advertisements. I hate how activism has been reduced to manufacturing outrage and using celebrities and pop culture as talking points. Same that crap for a college term paper. We have bigger fish to fry but the mass media loves to use this crap as distractions from the real bogeyman.

by Anonymousreply 187July 9, 2022 11:48 PM

R166 You sound like you’re not American and have a great ignorance of the deep seeded racism in the US.

This is not the first era or wave of America erasing it’s racist past.

America has banned and erased several movies, cartoons, advertisements, products, etc because racism was severely normal.

This isn’t wokeness, it’s how America progresses from its racist past. Or at least pretends to.

I imagine there were white people who were upset when they started banning racist cartoons and products back in the 60’s and 70’s and 80’s.

They were people like you.

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by Anonymousreply 188July 9, 2022 11:57 PM

The Dukes of Hazzard is the worst one because it was set in Georgia and while it was in a rural unincorporated type of town. It was still the Deep South and there was no black person in sight. I only remember that one black sheriff from a neighboring town. There are cities and rural towns that are predominately to 100% black all throughout the South. It was totally a Hollywood representation of the South anyway, they moved the filming location from actual Georgia to some backlot in Southern California which doesn't even pass for Georgia. The only real Southerners in the cast where the ones who played Enos, Roscoe and Cooter though technically John Schneider could count because he spent a lot of his early adolescence in Georgia.

by Anonymousreply 189July 10, 2022 12:02 AM

R188 I'm going to be direct. Sorry in advance. What makes me chuckle softly when I read your pavet is that you seem to forget that, although blacks have been in America for a very long time, they are not native Americans. Do Native Americans, decimated by white settlers, on their own soil, the only ones who can claim America as their own, complain as blacks do whenever there is not a black person in a show/movie? Yet they are the ones who are the least represented, whether in series or commercials. Sometimes I don't feel that blacks are really complaining because of this but out of pure jealousy and opportunism.

When I watched The Cosby Show or The Prince of Bel Air, or My Family First, I never felt uncomfortable because there are no white people or very very few. I watched it because I thought it was excellent and entertaining. This constant, selfish blackmail is tiring.

Sending me these kinds of links will not change my mind. Black people have been enslaved, it's true and it's detestable. But in the history of mankind, whites have been too, Jews too, Asians too etc... I never see black people complaining about the Arabs who enslaved them for 1400 years, and then sold them to the Europeans. Slavery in the West is long over. But it continues in Africa. Are Afro-Americans doing anything for their African brothers still enslaved in 2022 by the Arabs? NO.

A series is not a documentary.

by Anonymousreply 190July 10, 2022 12:02 AM

[quote]And honestly people are way too obsessed with pop culture.

Absolutely. Pop culture is supposed to be entertainment, a fun diversion from your real life, but so many people treat it as if it were a religion. It's the most important thing in their lives.

I cannot even imagine obsessing over some dumb sitcom or some dumb movie but people get so outraged over the most trivial things.

by Anonymousreply 191July 10, 2022 12:07 AM

R190 First off, you sound really ignorant and make really racist talking points. Same talking points I‘be heard from open loud and proud racists. You can’t say you’re not racist but say things proud racists always say lol.

Again ignorance. The Cosby Show and Fresh Prince and other black TV shows, were created in response to racism and segregation on TV. Just like BET is an all black channel. Who’s going to show black people and black entertainers? Those TV shows were intentionally made in response to black exclusion so why the fuck would you use those shows as examples?

I never said black Americans were like Native Americans. Black Americans came right over here on the ships with the European settlers in the early 1600’s. That’s why I mentioned Wasps and not Natives so your gotcha point was stupid. White and black people have been in the US the same number of years. Settlers brought slaves.

by Anonymousreply 192July 10, 2022 12:16 AM

I don't watch TV fiction because it's all TV. You know, it's TELEVISION. That says it all. But after 5 or so years after Seinfeld went off the air I saw enough snippets of it to realize how brilliant the comedy was and by now I've probably seen almost every episode. I saw snippets of Friends several times and let's just say I'd be more likely to become a Donna Reed Show junkie than ever get through an entire episode of that mediocrity.

by Anonymousreply 193July 10, 2022 12:17 AM

White people sure love being racist, they just hate being called it. It’s the weirdest thing in the world lol.

by Anonymousreply 194July 10, 2022 12:18 AM

R194 Let me guess you think white gays that don’t Jerk off to black porn are racist, huh?

by Anonymousreply 195July 10, 2022 12:19 AM

A lot of people with race fetishes are racists. Look at all the racist white men who marry Asian women or want to bang black women. I've known white conservative women who bash blacks as a group but go after BBC like it's nothing.

by Anonymousreply 196July 10, 2022 12:21 AM

R195 No, I think white people like you are simply racist. If I’m talking to Mr “soft chuckle”.

Just say you’re racist, why lie? David Duke doesn’t admit to being a racist either. No anti-black hate groups admit or refer to themselves as racists, they make the same excuses as you do.

by Anonymousreply 197July 10, 2022 12:23 AM

The accusation of racism as the only argument. You are pathetic and stupid. Nothing I said is racist. You don't even know what racism means. Not agreeing with you is not racist you know, you don't have absolute truth, I hope someone told you?

I repeat, the natives are the least represented and do not complain whether you like it or not.

by Anonymousreply 198July 10, 2022 12:30 AM

[quote]It is true that Boomers hated Friends because it reminded them that they were getting old and they weren't the center of pop culture anymore.

No. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Was it you posting it both times to get attention?

Like every other group lots of black people have only black friends, it's not as if this is only a trait found in some people. Ever seen a big group of young Southeast Asian people at a restaurant or club? There's not one black or white face in the group. Their parents restrict their friends growing up to be very insular and all Southeast Asian. I doubt Indians and Pakistanis even do much mingling!

by Anonymousreply 199July 10, 2022 12:47 AM

[quote]No. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Was it you posting it both times to get attention?

Bullshit. Just because you say it doesn't make it true. Lots of Boomers hated Friends. They didn't "get it" at all.

by Anonymousreply 200July 10, 2022 1:30 AM

R188 R192 I'm also black and amen brother or sister to that. I don't even waste time arguing the obvious to dense trolls who refuse to acknowledge that racism against black people in America is institutional. Many foreigners also are ignorant of American history and are brainwashed by American right-wing media to see things in simplified ways. We were brought to be slaves and were kept as an underclass for centuries. Slavery ended but 100 years of race-based terrorism, legal discrimination and segregation kept us as second class citizens. I had to calmly explain to Koreans and Japanese why blackface imagery was offensive. Many didn't realize it because a lot of it was brought over to America via old black-and-white cartoons (which influenced the anime style), old movies featuring blackface and advertising (many of which is still a thing in Europe too).

No doubt that other groups like poor whites, Irish, Jews, Italians, Arabs and East Asians faced discrimination but they were never seen as low as Blacks in The US. All of those groups could attend white schools and live in white neighborhoods they were discriminated against because of xenophobia and all of them (excluding East Asians) obtained white status and thus assimilated. Most East Asians in America actually don't descend from the original Chinese, Filipino and Japanese foreign laborers but from the wave of educated and independently wealthy immigrants who came over in the 70s and 80s and could establish businesses and enter white-collar professions like medicine, law and academics. East Asians were barred from migrating to The US for decades, so they definitely faced racism (mostly rooted in Yellow peril xenophobia) but not the same extent as Black Americans or Native Americans.

And also I wish people would stop bringing up Africa, Black Americans have nothing to do with Africa anymore. We've been here since the 1600s and the last slaves were smuggled in by the 1860s. We're Americans, our native tongue is American English, we are mostly Protestant Christian, most of our last names are Johnson, Smith, Williams, McDaniel, etc and a lot of the stereotypical black culture and vernacular is more tied to general rural Southern culture. Also, poverty in Africa has to do with colonization that was enacted by Europe in 1800s that saw the partitioning of land into different colonies effectively land-locking many groups of people and intensifying tribal conflict over competing resources.

by Anonymousreply 201July 10, 2022 1:42 AM

$4M tax deduction

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by Anonymousreply 202July 10, 2022 1:56 AM

Why does nobody ever talk about the lack of black characters on TBBT?

by Anonymousreply 203July 10, 2022 4:03 AM

They seriously made NYC look all-white. Never a bodega in sight.

by Anonymousreply 204July 10, 2022 4:11 AM

Especially after she ripped off Living Single.

by Anonymousreply 205July 10, 2022 4:12 AM

Living Single was never going to be a huge mainstream hit. And forget about a global hit.

by Anonymousreply 206July 10, 2022 4:13 AM

Was there even a white person ever on Good Times?

She wasn't the sole producer of this show. Why is it always the stupid white woman who does this shit?

by Anonymousreply 207July 10, 2022 4:34 AM

[quote] They seriously made NYC look all-white. Never a bodega in sight.

And Ross was the only one of the group ever mugged on the city streets. And 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 by Phoebe.

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by Anonymousreply 208July 10, 2022 4:34 AM

[quote]They seriously made NYC look all-white.

It was NYC by way of a Southern California backlot in the 90s. Maybe they could have gone for more diverse atmosphere casting, but they didn't. It can't be undone now. It would be like arguing why wasn't I Love Lucy or the Brady Bunch more diverse. it's an unwinnable argument. You learn from the past and do better.

by Anonymousreply 209July 10, 2022 4:45 AM

[quote] I never see black people complaining about the Arabs who enslaved them for 1400 years, and then sold them to the Europeans. Slavery in the West is long over. But it continues in Africa. Are Afro-Americans doing anything for their African brothers still enslaved in 2022 by the Arabs? NO.

This 100X.

Slavery is only bad when white people do it, apparently.

by Anonymousreply 210July 10, 2022 6:14 AM

R210 They know they won’t gain anything if they complain about black on black crimes/atrocities.

by Anonymousreply 211July 10, 2022 6:17 AM

It's even more basic.

Whether you look at history or at one-on-one human relationships, "You Did Me Wrong So You Owe Me" is an unwinnable argument and it's foolish to think that it can lead to anything other than simmering resentment.

Complicating matters further is the fact that many (most/) white Americans are descended from immigrants who arrived here long after the Civil War, often to cities in the North which at the time had minimal Black populations and faced prejudice when they first got to America. The "your grandfather may have seen "No Irish Need Apply: signs but still benefited from White Privilege" argument is a tough one for people to buy.

by Anonymousreply 212July 10, 2022 10:22 AM

I also love how all the white people who fought on the side of the Union in the Civil War are just put in the same group as the fucking confederates who pledged their entire way of life to continuing slavery. No credit at all. We get the "well, they were both still racist!" shit now. At some point, you just shrug and say whatever because you can never, ever win no matter what you do.

by Anonymousreply 213July 10, 2022 11:13 AM

When LIving Single dishes out 40k for their lack of diversity, we can talk.

by Anonymousreply 214July 10, 2022 11:15 AM

Sanford and Son had a very stereotypical Puerto Rican or something. Does that count enough that they don't have to pay?

by Anonymousreply 215July 10, 2022 11:30 AM

Living Single was not original, despite black people's claims. There was a sitcom about young adults living together in the 1970s called Three's Company.

by Anonymousreply 216July 10, 2022 12:41 PM

[quote] Why does nobody ever talk about the lack of black characters on TBBT?

I have wondered about this as well.

by Anonymousreply 217July 10, 2022 1:16 PM

The Big Bang Theory?

Perhaps they get a pass because one of them is Indian?

But no Chinese? That seems racist

by Anonymousreply 218July 10, 2022 1:33 PM

r217 r218 African Americans in the sciences tend to be called the same things they call black conservatives. . . and unsurprisingly, many lean that way.

Though while aspects of "acting white" come into play.. it's more of the collective class of the demographic.

In truth, it might not be all that different from Sheldon's family. . . support but a lack of respect and feelings of inadequacy, even betrayal to those values often painfully quoted as the meek shall inerit the earth. The greatest insult offered "you think you're smart, don't you"

Which really means "you think you're betteer than me" and when pressed, rebelliously lashing out, one is inclined to admit it. . .

it's complex and messy, and often a multigenerational passed down in the cultural gene pool.

tw: ignore for a moment the troll speaker, the girl in question, a math major comes from a lesser background than the protestors. . . yet she's considered a traitor. She likely would be even outside of this event... outside of politics.

In media, the only acceptable black "geniuses" are children but disturbingly, they recover by their teens. . . they learn to appear less smart or geeky, to code switch, and become sauve... like urkel to stefan, family guy, dion, etc... a precious black child is accepted but not an adult. . . they become an outsider to the tribe.

And the Mary Sues get flak from everyone, like that of St:d, Naomi, Natalie Irons (not too awful but they're really not developing her character and seem to have trouble with knowing what to do with her. She might turn around. But it's painfully slow.), the fears of what will happen when RiRi Williams is finally introduced to the mcu...

The old Carltons of the world are to be mocked, Kyle might have been hawt but he was played like the devil, just as Maxine was a dysfunctional and mostly unlikable frugal (people user) shrew... leave them to sky-ance and the authentic to Flavor magazine...

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by Anonymousreply 219July 10, 2022 7:10 PM

^ family guy = smart guy. sorry. old. senile.

by Anonymousreply 220July 10, 2022 7:11 PM

The Fosters had a woman.... and mother that would say "you don't know what it's like to be a black woman" is another factor. Black lesbians, too, fall into this outsider aspect. Of course, though.. that show was diversity porn.. so it was never going to be too legit with so many boxes to check.

media/entertainment

like politics.

doesn't care much for real diversity...

they don't know how to write for it. . . they only know how to write the very special episode

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by Anonymousreply 221July 10, 2022 7:17 PM

R218 Yes, and that guy was the butt of every Indian stereotype jokes, many of which he had to deliver himself, prefaced by “it’s not racist when I say it.”

by Anonymousreply 222July 10, 2022 7:23 PM

Oh, please, R222. Just like the Jew, the dumb blonde, the aspie, the comic book nerd, the mean smart girl nerd, the desperate smart girl nerd, and on and on, did in the show. It's called a sitcom. Get over it.

by Anonymousreply 223July 10, 2022 7:33 PM

The Real McCoy's had Pepito. That makes Friend's more racist than Walter Brennan.

by Anonymousreply 224July 16, 2022 1:17 AM

Friends was a microcosm look of six white twenty-something friends in Greenwich Village apartment building. It didn't necessarily need to have Black or Latino or Asian characters to satisfy an ethnic quota. It's absurd that every group of friends in real life or in entertainment should include affirmative action.

by Anonymousreply 225July 16, 2022 1:25 AM

[quote]It's absurd that every group of friends in real life or in entertainment should include affirmative action.

In NYC in 2022 you'll find twentysomething white people whose primary circle of friends are other white people. That's just real life.

by Anonymousreply 226July 16, 2022 1:37 AM

Bingo R226

I would say most, especially college grads who have moved to NYC for work.

And if there is a non-white friend, they will be Asian (Chinese, Korean or Indian) not Black

by Anonymousreply 227July 16, 2022 10:30 AM

As a lifelong New Yorker I've been in group of friends where we were all white, but I've also been in groups where we were mixed races and ethnicities. Mandating that all groups of friends must include a non-white person is an absurdity.

by Anonymousreply 228July 16, 2022 3:11 PM
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