AA is a cult period !

I agree and have been saying this for years. I'm happy for the people that beat their bad habits and stay sober, but the rest just carry on about my addiction, my addiction, my addiction.

In a lot of cases, AA gives people the permission to repeat their horrible acts, over and over again, no matter who they hurt, lie to, steal from, etc. There's no justification for that.

I think you may be trolling, but stated MY FACTS/Opinion anyway.

I forgot to add: Yes, it's your fault, the damage you've done is on you... not the drugs, not the drink... not the habit/addiction. YOU

I agree r1,2

In AA/NA- everything is your fault except getting loaded. They are neurotic and unhappy because the program shuts down critical thought, and drills into people that they are never well, just daily reprieve based on spiritual principles. Addiction is a psychiatric condition , not a spiritual malady as they believe

I quit 12 years ago with no help. I didn't want to go the AA route as it just seems like those people are just so depressed. I know I can't drink and don't. I have hereditary alcoholism and loved how alcohol made me feel.

I'm okay - no lingering unresolved issues.

Well, that website certainly looks authoritative.

When the druggies and the overeating fish took over our meetings and shut them down during the plandemic, that was the end for us.

Total disregard for the 10th Traditia which states "AA HAS NO OPINION ON OUTSIDE ISSUES"

We are in contact with people who are actual drunks who do not want to drink today, but we are finished with an AA that has been ruined by a holes who have no business being there: druggies and overeaters.

AA has billboards now.

What is up with that?

I thought that was a big no-no.

R7 I thought they had special meetings just for the addicts or binge eaters?

yes, r9, but they are not AA meetings

AA does not have billboards and does not promote itself- just the opposite. It is not a cult at all. The only requirement for attending a meeting is a desire to stop drinking. If you have this desire or think you have a problem with alcohol you are welcome. You do not have to stay and there are no commitments.

The Orange Papers is just one side. AA helps some people. One needs to take a nuanced and balanced view.

Bump

R8, they promote on tv, movies and music r11 Is a brainwashed asshole. There’s not a lot of warmth or compassion in the rooms. It’s all condemn, shame and dismissive attitudes

duh, op!

Why do DLers hate AA? I went to a few meetings during a period when I was drinking too much. I was fascinated by the public self-shaming aspect of it, but impressed that the people there seemed to benefit from AA.

R16, why did you leave ? You didn’t want to help a fellow alcoholic? Sounds selfish

Look at 12 steps success rates . Pathetic is an understatement. It’s Christian Scientist crap

William Inge was promoting AA all the way back in the 1950s!

Bill W. suffered from serious depression, which is a huge cause of addiction ( along with anxiety ) and took trips on LSD under clinical trials . That was his spiritual experience!!

R11, do you not have a comment about r8? You are clearly wrong do you want to correct your statement?

It’s safe to say they use brainwashing techniques and also isolation techniques and share a lot in common with cults but ins own cases, my god, these groups are the singular, thin line that keeps the hopeless wretches off the street. And it’s kind of a miracle that it exists. I just think that people generally should keep one foot on solid ground in these types of things and keep a check on it all.

*in many cases

I think it's mainly one person. For instance, in this thread, one poster is responsible for starting the thread and making 10 of the 16 replies prior to mine. Apparently the anti-AA troll is in need of some kind of help, if only for their rage at AA.

R24 is drunk or wasted on AA idiocy

Is there a 12 step program for anti-AA fanatics? Perhaps the anti- AA troll would benefit.

I'm powerless over my obsession...

R26, is a Pacific Group member . Poor thing .

Rare joyful laughter at 12 step meeting.

Bump

What is a cult period, OP? A time in which cults flourish, like the late 1960s and 1970s?

I will say this. Courts should have no authority to sentence someone to AA as part of an official sentence.

You can offer it as a plea or something but only if other alternatives are also offered.

Too many courts force people to go to AA and that is unconstitutional in like 6 different ways.

There should be more alternatives. That are not ran by a kook like some of the alternatives out there. They need more straight forward, psychiatric type treatment and overall health treatment that focuses on science based therapies.

Too many rehabs are basically 12 step rehabs in disguise and they “outsource” all the services to AA.

It’s a racket.

R31, absolutely agree ! It’s unconstitutional to court mandate someone to a religious program that has abysmal success rate .

In fairness, MOST addiction treatment programs have abysmal success rates

They need to just have more sober meeting groups and travel groups and sober parties that are not affiliated with 12-step groups. They had sober cruises and sober raves at one point. Just a culture of people who are abstaining. Wether it be for a day or a year, or a decade, or permanently quitting, but just more support and social based groups and speakers instead of some of the heaviness and arcaneness of AA especially with the subordination to one’s “sponsor” and relinquishing of control of one’s life to someone else or a group.

That being said I respect people for whom the 12 step process works, more power to you, as long as there are other options and it’s not presented as the “only way” and that certain death awaits you if you leave the group.

There is probably a really good cure for addiction out there but they haven’t found it yet.

R34, yea, because they are invariably 12 step based which is state funded .

R35, is a wise, astute soul

My lesbian friend lives her life through AA. became a trump supporter once she joined and goes against everything in her best interest, mine and yours. She's unbearable. She has complete psychotic meltdowns at any mention of anything negative to do with trump and if you don't agree with her.

Aa is not promoted on TV or anywhere. Never has been and never will be. It’s written into the traditions. R14 is lying. AA does not use brainwashing techniques and there are no data on its success because the program is anonymous. Some have have estimated irs success but no empiric data and studies have been published because AA does not engage in studies of any kind. There are some real nasty trolls on this thread.

Orange Papers? How 20 years ago of you, OP.

There's a direct connection between sugar and alcoholism, and at every meeting there are sugar-coated and chocolate doughnuts with the coffee,

R39, that is typical of many cults. They allow their followers to express their true feelings/ emotions outside of cults . Cult members are usually over zealous due to frustration on limited cult thinking allowed

One of my best and most fun friends in college got blackout drunk one Saturday night her sophomore year. She was in a sorority (I was in a fraternity) and her house had a party with a lot of alcohol. One of her housemates called me around 4AM to come help them. I ran over there and found her drunk and incoherent, and, well, not unlike lots of guys and girls after a night of heavy drinking in college. Her housemates and I stayed up with her for several hours, helped her throw up a few times, until she fell asleep well after dawn. That weekend was the end of our relationship.

When she came to, she had no recollection of the previous night after a certain time and determined that she was an alcoholic in need of help. She went to her first AA meeting that Sunday evening. That was the end of my close, funny, rational friend. While she did not develop a holier-than-thou attitude, she definitely finished her last two years of college as a teetotaler without many friends. She stuck around to do a Masters degree, got pregnant, married, and led a miserable life for a couple decades thereafter. A few years ago, we reconnected on Facebook. Nevertheless, I still occasionally mourn the loss of my friend.

Yes they now have billboards hence the post at r8.

Not sure what is not sinking in here.

They have digital billboards promoting the program in SC and elsewhere. which surprised me given their “attraction” mantra.

R45, that slogan is so judgmental and cold . Sounds like , @ it’s heaven or hell, your choice “ AA was founded on evangelical dogma

People just get into this stuff way too deep. It’s hypnotizing for some people. They can’t see past the edges after a while though. It becomes another drug.

"The Rooms" sound like somewhere you go to be frightened half to death on Halloween.

Bump

Alcohol is cunning, baffling and powerful according to AA literature which is read in every meeting. How does someone refrain when they are powerless?

Cling

Bling 🤑

How many people have been called the anti-AA troll?

They don't take attendance or keep track of anyone's progress in AA! "Statistics" are all baloney, plus if you want to go back to drinking, you can! There aren't any "rules".

About 100% of people at an AA meeting are sober, still drunks are allowed! Those are good odds as often meetings are quite crowded! I've been sober 35 years and would not be happy in a cult, I a happy being around sober people helping others. You can contribute a buck but you never have to, it's free. It's not exactly a mental health club, which means even dataloungers are welcomed!

My best friend had a drinking problem, so I suggested 90 days of AA and abstinence which he immediately accomplished. To date he is the only person I know who claimed being more miserable NOT being sick and hungover. He had nothing but disdain for the people trying to help him. I said, "Well great, you tried it and it isn't for you!" He went back to drinking and died at home recently with a failing liver and myocarditis, both symptoms of severe alcoholism.

To the guy who accused me of being in the Pacific Group (which is a fanatical Group in AA), I am in AA and don't drink but am very loosey goosey about the steps etc. I hate the Atlantic/Pacific groups. I've been sober decades but those guys think of me as suspect cause I reject the more cult like elements. Take what you want and leave the rest is my mantra about everything in life.

Also I think court ordering people to AA is horrible and unconstitutional. I've argued against it in AA for years. And oppose rehabs that are just facilitated AA. I entered therapy and intentionally got a hawt young therapist who knew nothing at all about the 12 steps.

AA people are generally nuts and deeply neurotic. They are obsessed with their “ disease “ and unsure of themselves.

AA is for drunks who don't want to drink today. That was what Bill and Dr. Bob started it for.

They could never have visualized the horror that it has become, filled with people who have no business being there because they were never drunks... but talk endlessly about drugs, food, and other bullshit.

In our observatia, except for a few cases, neither fish(food, mental illness) nor homosexuals (drugs drugs and still MORE drugs) belong in AA.

There are other groups for these people, and they could be of so much help there instead of stealing time and space in AA meetings.

57 and 58 are people with reflexive grievances and full of shit (twisted opinions). R54 know of what he speaks.

Bump for common sense

Lie, cheat, steal and maybe even kill. But don't worry, join AA, NA, Fuck off-A and blame it on the drugs and drink. It's not your fault, you are powerless to lifting your hand to your mouth and taking that drink or popping those pills, or shooting needles into your arms. It's never your fault, to not do what billions of others do daily... DEAL WITH LIFE.

Get lost defenders. It's a cult and it enables people who refuse to take responsibility for their own actions.

Ok…but what about Al-Anon?

R61, you are positively right ! R62, Alanon is a group of passive aggressive victims of narcissists.

This is hilarious and not far from the truth

I think AA helps some people.

Gay comics Jessica Kirson and Tim Dillon talked about their addiction history and both said that AA is the thing that helped them. This conversation starts @ 5:35.

Medicine and clinical therapy for addictions.. spiritual cure is not true

I hate American Airlines.

You don’t have a disease ! That’s a self defeating excuse .

OP is another fascist who is not an American.

Cult period?

Oh, dear.

R69, educate yourself between meetings you brainwashed tool

It's funny, the loudest complaints are always by people not in AA, but they have an endless laundry list of grievances.

It's similar to having a raging negative campaign against a restaurant you never eat at!

You don't have to go to an AA meeting (which I have to support an endless pit of self delusion friend) to know what it's all about. You just have to have a person/people in the program in your life long enough, hear their insane ramblings on a regular basis to inform an opinion about what it's all about.

During the pandemic, I took in this lesbian friend that I've talked about on here several times. By then, she was fully in the Trump cult, from being around other AA cult members and she needed to fit in. All I heard the entire time from her was that addicts have it worse than anyone else during a pandemic, because they can't physically go to meetings and re-hash their glory days of drinking and drugging with others.

That's right, an addict has it worse than those that were dying, alone, isolated from their families and friends, and the families that could not see their loved ones before dying.

I booted her selfish, delusional ass within a month.

AA is not the problem, it's almost always the Alcoholic's interloping, self-righteous, controlling, and resentful shitbag sponsor. Awful humans.

Sponsers/ sponsee dynamic is toxic

It's cultish in some ways (chanting phrases from the Big Book over and over and over again; worship of a charismatic leader - Bill W. - though it claims to be about "people not personalities"). But in the end, it really isn't a cult-cult.

What it is is a really ineffective, sham treatment for alcoholism.

Here we go again!

Somebody else denigrating AA, so they can justify their drinking.

Ho hum…

R76, a cult stepper

Some people are adults and no how to handle having drinks R76. Others... well go to an AA meeting or take on a friend in the program and see for yourselves.

Just because somebody enjoys having a drink doesn't mean they are an alcoholic. Stop trying to make everything/everyone like you... a problem across the board.

I will oh, dear myself. "some people no how to" KNOW

Fuck of r79, you humorless cult member

I LUV U TOO, R80

R28 Oh, honey, have you ever been to a gay AA meeting? It's like open mic at the Comedy Store.

Yes, there are true believers who may offend newcomers... but early on (30 years ago) what I heard that made sense was "take what you need and leave the rest." Also, "if you had a room full of 30 assholes and got them sober you'd wind up with a room full of sober assholes."

AA could seem like a cult from the outside but when you actually go and engage it can be very helpful. People go for their own reasons and get out of it different experiences and outcomes. I used AA as a springboard to getting sober 13 years ago. I haven't been to a meeting in at least 11 years and I didn't go through all of the 12 steps that they suggest. I'm still sober and use what I learned in the meetings to live my life sober. For me it was more about being surrounded by and hearing stories of people who had similar or worse experiences with alcohol. A supportive community. It didn't feel culty to me but being raised Catholic (now agnostic) the quasi-religious aspects went in one ear and out the other. I took what I wanted and left the rest and it has worked.

And yes, there are people who after 20 years sober fall off the wagon and end up worse than they had been or even dead. It does happen but there are also those who fall off and become responsible social drinkers. More than anything it makes you think about why you are drinking and gain a new perspective about that. But each has his/her own path.

Add to R82, the gay AA meetings I go to are 99% dyed in the wool Democrats so the "my lesbian friend turned Trumpster in AA" troll is overgeneralizing. During the Clinton Trump election the biggest Yaassss Kweens for Hillary were in the rooms.

AA and especially CMA anonymous concentrate addicts. Not necessarily a good idea.

Addiction is the same thing as ocd. Maybe they should be treating it with a doctor and mental health support like any other disorder.

Addiction is a psychiatric disorder.

Bump for true debate and stop such a powerful entity for so called recovery . It should not be an everyday battle and listening to the same fucking stories and never really growing . 12 steps are all about living shamefully in your past .

It is a cult to some degree and way of life for some of the long timers you will see at meetings. Some of the people are pretty weird and evangelistic typees. But you can use it as a free toil to sobriety. You don’t have to sign up, give money or even do the steps if you don’t want to. I went every day for six months and didn’t. I haven’t been back in almost 15 years and am still sober. It is bot like Scientology and they will not kidnap or blackmail you.

R89, in day of social media etc , it’s easier to track people and no their business. Even your definition sounds down right awful

Know 😳 for the humorless steppers .

Bump

R88 Curious comment. The 12 steps recovery process is actually about stopping your past from 1) repeating itself senselessly, and 2) keeping you from moving forward to something new.

"We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness.

We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it.

We will comprehend the word serenity.

We will know peace."

Etc.

Fuck off and have another drink, OP.

R93, is r94, the example of peace and serenity you speak of?

Yo yo yo

R95 It's progress, not perfection, for reals, eh Pookie?

Personally, I wish you happiness and the causes of happiness. I wish you freedom from suffering and the causes of suffering. I wish you never to be separated from unconditional happiness, where there is no suffering. I wish you cause to live in impartiality, free from obsession and aversion.

R97,what a condescending post lol

R98 Bodhicitta.

True compassion is the hot water that melts the ice cube of Ego, eh Pookie?

No, R22 it is not safe to say. You know little about it. Going to a meeting once or twice and then blaming that for your problem is not helpful to you or correct. No one has to go and no one has to stay. Those that find it helpful are free to use it to get past the addictions. One day at a time has been effective for a lot of people. As far as R96's video, there is a lot of disinformation these days. Just because something shows up on a video doesn't make it factual.

Those who aren't ready to deal with their addiction will have ongoing problems whether they go to an AA group, psychotherapy, psychiatric treatment or inpatient addiction treatment. Recovery is hard work and not everyone is able to do it over time.

This thread rocks ! I have 2 colleagues who are in AA. One is the most sanctimonious hypocrite and Jesus freak( ostensibly) he is also a bully, raging and inappropriate with women( HR is aware). The second who has 5 years ( female) has to call her sponsor over virtually everything that upsets her or any dilemmas. She can’t trust her own thinking or intuition. When she got 5 years, I congratulated her and told her she should give herself props. Her response was “ it’s God “ Horrible

Bump

AA troll fell off the wagon apparently

Nope ☝🏼. I just am educating people on this dangerous cult

AA bonding is based on the horrors of addiction. It’s trauma bonding . They hang out usually only with other steppers . That’s sad

I knew a woman who continued to go on and on about AA after 25 years of being sober. She had been a sponsor. It was her whole life and social life. She claimed that if you even drank a few drinks a week you were an alcoholic. I developed an alcohol problem in my twenties and felt I needed to quit drinking so I just stopped drinking. She still swore I would always be an alcoholic even though I never took up drinking again and was in my forties at that point.

R106, the 12 step brainwashing is real.

[quote]I never took up drinking again and was in my forties at that point.

And you don't look a day over 39!

OP losses all credibility without the required punctuation.

I've used AA on and off over the past 15 years and have had a few periods of up to 18 months of sobriety during that time. I've only been to rehab once (back in 2009 for a month) and the other times I quit (including this time) I just stopped on my own with no medical intervention nor DTs. It's not because I wasn't drinking enough - I was putting away 2 bottles of wine a night. I'm 1/2 Polish and I think I come from stock that have heavy drinking in their genes.

Anyways, I'm 95 days sober, and in the first 2 months went to A LOT of Zoom AA meetings. I found them helpful, and have found the meetings helpful in the past as well. I've had sponsors before, but only 2 that I really liked and thought made a difference for me. Sadly, in both cases, a move away (once on my part, once on the sponsor's part) ended the sponsorship. I've made it through Step 4 in the past. This time, I haven't gotten a sponsor nor have I done the steps (except the first 2, which happened because I really knew I was powerless and i did come to believe that other people could help me - and that they are a a power greater than myself).

Because of some recent circumstances, I haven't been attending meetings more than once a week. When i do go to meetings, i like them and hear things that are relevant to remembering why i will never be able to drink normally. I also made myself extremely ill by drinking as much as I did over the past 3+ years, and do feel if I had kept drinking, I would have probably ended up dead. I'm not being dramatic about that, I'm dealing with lasting health issues because of my drinking.

I woke up after my last drunk and got on an AA meeting. The encouragement and positivity I received was extremely helpful. It continues to be helpful and there when i need it. The majority of people i meet and talk to in and out of the meetings are funny, insightful people. like any group, there are the outliers, the critical, the crazy, the ones i sort of just dismiss. you will find those sorts in any gathering.

i think AA can be helpful. some people need it for life, others don't. it's not my place to judge. i'm just sharing what i've found over the years. getting and staying sober is my work and responsibility, and AA was one of the tools that i used. but much like religion, i don't just "give it over to God" and trust that it will all turn out okay...i have to put in the work and desire to not be where and what i was 95 days ago and to keep moving forward.

Oh Christ. This shit again? People who claim AA is a cult don't understand what it is. They probably really are alcoholics and are too afraid to face their own reality. They haven't decided to quit drinking even though it's probably fucking up their lives. Is AA the only way people can get sober? No. But it sure has worked for many thousands of people. My dad was one of them. But a cult? No. People can stop going to meetings any time they want, no one asks for money, and they don't control what you do with your time.

R103, the real AA troll is hear. Sorry to say, still clean, still sober.

That does not make as good a narrative for you. I know AA tends to favor good narratives over true experience, so I am sorry.

I know six people who are in AA or NA. In my opinion five of them never had a problem but instead were people who didn't want to sit at home alone every night. AA became their social life. I sort of think of the program as the liar's club. They would speak at meetings talking about the terrible thinks they did while drinking but it was all made up. Now the one guy who did have a big problem withing drinking got sober through AA so it isn't all bad I guess.

The issue I have with aa, is that I once was neighbors with a woman who was an aa group leader. I will most likely be attacked for “being a drunk that deserves to die “ simply for saying this. Dissent is punished with accusations of alcoholism even towards non drinkers that ask questions about aa? I find it strange that a support group would say to participants who ask critical questions, angrily mocking the questioners and stating that the mere act of asking questions is a thought crime that is considered a pathognomonic sign of alcoholism. Why is there no mechanism to report group leaders to the aa organization? Is the oversight supposed to be the court system that employs aa to illegally coerce people to attend a religious program or go to jail?

The woman was always gossiping about her meetings and mocking certain people, She told us that a person was having a seizure in an aa meeting for the court system and she told the entire group “we aren’t going to give you the attention you want you disgusting drunk!” Wow. That really made me wonder about aa. If someone goes to a therapist or physician, there is oversight for if the clinician is incompetent or erroneous. I know it’s just one person, etc. This woman was working for the court system part time acting like that.

R114, there really are not "group leaders." The chair of each meeting changes once a month usually---sometimes once every three months. No one person really gets the kind of power that you describe--though I can easily imagine some claiming such power.

AA is very decentralized. There is no oversight. This is why the quality of the meetings and even their philosophy is luck of the draw.

12 step programs condition you to self hate and self doubt . It’s so unhealthy.

OP is a drunk who links to sites that end in ".mx" because that's where the most reliable information is.

Glug glug glug, troll.

“ remember, we deal with alcohol, cunning, baffling and poweful…. We admitted we are powerless over alcohol “

Read in the beginning of every AA meeting. How does someone go to grocery store or anywhere really because alcohol is so ubiquitous, and not feel fear over the powerful booze that you are powerless over?

R118, please don't drink when you're trying to post.

Especially about alcoholism.

R119, typical cult gas lighting

OP's link is dead

R121 So is his optimism.

R122, how do you feel about climate change?

It does help some people, but definitely not everyone. I'm guessing the majority of AA members do need more than what to program provides to kick the alcohol dependency for good.

Oh, R121, does that mean OP is dead too?

R114’s neighbor/aa leader sounds right out of a John Walter’s movie, especially the part about screaming at someone having a seizure in an aa meeting.