Glenn Close or Meryl Streep?

I'm voting for Glenn for a couple of reasons:

She does riskier work than Meryl, and doesn't insist on control over her director or castmates the way that Meryl (allegedly) does. (Meryl chooses to work with some truly second-rate directors if only because they don't challenge her authority. Phyllida Lloyd? John Wells? ) She worked on an intriguing TV series (Damages) years before other film actors of her stature moved to TV, and on a musical podcast with John Cameron Mitchell. We can mock her failures (Albert Nobbs) but she's been instrumental in getting these little projects made in the first place.

Glenn has also never believed her own PR, unlike Meryl. She's been a critic's darling at times, but then fallen out of favor for long stretches. She's had to campaign for roles in theatre and film that would merely have been handed over to Meryl. She's never been above criticism.

Meryl has built a career being the best (or at least showiest) thing in a lot of prestigious but mediocre movies. I'm not sure her legacy is as assured as she seems to think.

R1 I 100% agree! Glenn's work is more well rounded and higher quality than Meryl's.

What a brand new topic for the DL!

Sissy Spacek is my favorite of that generation of actresses, but of these two my vote is for Glenn Close.

It's true that Meryl Streep's filmography is quite weak and middlebrow for an actress of her stature; her concern is finding big, showy roles for herself as opposed to working with interesting directors. She turned down Barbara Hershey's roles in both Jane Campion's 'The Portrait of a Lady' and Darren Aronofsky's 'Black Swan,' ostensibly because the parts weren't big enough. Hershey had to audition like crazy for both of them, and was probably better than Streep would have been.

That said, Streep is still a stronger and more thoughtful actress than most of the younger batch of major film stars, so I don't want to be too hard on her. I'm critical because her age group is absolutely packed with talent and there's no legitimate reason why she is considered to be so far above all her peers.

For years I had an aversion to Glenn just based on her looks. And Meryl I accepted as “the great one”.

But now looking back, Meryl is sort of a hack. And uneven.

But Glenn is edgier and there’s a lot of restrained- or unhinged- power there.

It’s an old DL preoccupation but I like it better than “What do upper class people like?” threads.

I think Judy Davis is better than both of them.

R5 Upper class people like Glenn better I would imagine. She is in more literary adaptations.

WHY ARE TWO SUCCESSFUL WOMEN ALWAYS PITCHED AGAINST EACH OTHER?

Glenn has had by far the most interesting career out of the two of them, and her performance in Dangerous Liaisons would be enough to make me hold her in high esteem. That was one of the greatest performances I’ve ever seen on screen.

She also doesn’t mind playing roles which are pretty unsympathetic, and yet she always finds a way to make you care for the character, I think Meryl, especially in her later performances, always likes to let her own personality shine through the character she is playing. I find that a little off-putting.

I don’t care for either. Glenn has one truly excellent performance: Dangerous Liaisons. Meryl doesn’t have anything on that level.

r10 Meryl's performance in Plenty is far superior to Glenn's work in Liaisons.

Even though I don’t love either K. Hepburn and Pauline Kael, they were right in their criticism of Streep. She is a boring actress who you can always see thinking something along the lines of “I am giving a great performance.” I enjoy her in comedic roles like Death Becomes Her and Prada because she doesn’t seem to have the usual stick up her ass in them.

From that generation, Sissy Spacek and Sigourney Weaver are my favorites.

I agree about Sissy Spacek and Judy Davis, and would also add Sally Field into the comparative group.

Glenn for Dangerous L (can’t spell) and Fatal Attraction.

Riveting performances that hold up.

She's good in it, R11, but PLENTY is a bad, dreary, deservedly forgotten film. It doesn't make a very good case for Meryl's superiority.

Meryl's best performance is Kramer v Kramer

r16 no way. She's barely in it.

Can we retire the canard that Meryl Streep doesn't work with top directors?

Since 2000, she's been directed by (among others) Wes Anderson, Jonathan Demme, Spike Jonze, Mike Nichols, Steven Soderbergh and Steven Spielberg. (Some would include Nora Ephron and Nancy Meyers in that list.)

As far as I can see, the only major directors that Glenn Close has worked with since 2000 are Ron Howard and Sidney Lumet.

I remember starting to notice Meryl’s fluttering hands when I saw Bridges of Madison County with my mother.

It was distracting and the film was based on frau literature. It was the moment when I began to question Meryl and her reputation.

[quote]Some would include Nora Ephron and Nancy Meyers in that list.

Some people have no taste or awareness of film directors, I guess.

I like both, but voted for Glenn for the better movies and credits.

Both are superb, and their early films are definitely modern classics. Close for me stands out because she has an almost classic like movie star edge to her. I've always referred to her as the modern Barbara Stanwyck. The only thing she hasn't done like Barbara outside of some TV movies is a western. Streep could have been the new Bette Davis, but she's taking on a lot of oddball roles that Davis could have played in her sleep. However, every time they start in a film, it is an event, and very few times I have watched something with either that I've absolutely despised.

My point, R20, is that whatever you think of those women as directors (I'm not a fan of either), they were "name" directors when Streep worked with them.

G.?

Not even Close.

Obviously.

R18, you are right, although I think it is worth noting how few of Meryl's really noteworthy performances come from great directors. From your list, I'd say only Jonze and Nichols really brought out something special from her, and that is odd from an actor of her stature. It's not like The Post or A Prairie Home Companion are bad movies with bad performances by Streep, but there's never the spark that you'd expect from an actor at Streep's level working with a director like Spielberg or Altman.

It would be as if Katharine Hepburn's great performances came mostly from Anthony Harvey movies instead of from ones by George Cukor, Howard Hawks, John Huston and so forth.

I don't think the same criticism applies to Glenn because, frankly, she has never had the amount of power in Hollywood as Meryl. There have been multiple points in Meryl's career when she could have had the pick of any top director she wanted, while even at her Fatal Attraction peak I doubt Glenn had the same leverage.

Katharine Hepburn was a joke. She was only heralded as the greatest because of her class status. It was East coast snobbery.

I like Jessica Lange. She's braver in her choices and could ultimately give a shit what anyone thinks of her. Her last play slayed me.

Glen is actually really interesting because her filmography is very unique and broad reaching. Very diverse.

Meryl has gotten on my nerves throughout the years. Always in almost everything going for ladies in her age group. Just always. I've grown weary of her but still respect her talent though.

R25, I think that I know what you mean (although I think that she's wonderful in THE POST). Still, put your money where your mouth is: what directors should she have worked with in the past 20 years but didn't? For all that people accuse her of "gobbling up" all the choice roles in her age category, I'd love to know what wonderful female parts she DIDN'T play in great directors' works. (Which role in a Paul Thomas Anderson movie would you have had her play, for example?)

To invoke yet another tired canard about her -- "She's never been in a really great movie!" -- I'd like to know which great movies of the past 35 years that people think that Streep turned down. Or do they think that Cybill Shepherd is a great actress because she appeared in at least 2 generally acknowledged masterpieces?

R18 She voiced an animated character for Wes Anderson, starred in Jonathan Demme’s shittiest films, nobody watched or cared about her work with Soderbergh, and similarly, the only good Mike Nichols film she appeared in she was both insanely miscast and wiped off the screen by Shirley MacLaine. Nora Ephron and Nancy Meyers are not great directors. I will give you Spike Jonze.

And starred in minor Spielberg and minor Altman works. Both were middling. You don’t just have to work with good directors, you have to actually make good films with them!

R27 Jessica Lange is awful. The fandom for her on DL in the last few years has to have been astroturfed by that one loon. She’s carved up her face like a turkey and does a terrible Blanche DuBois drag act in all of her films. Who told her she was the next Vivien Leigh or Geraldine Page? At least Close and Streep have some semblance of technical talent.

A technician guides you through their performance and the character's humanity. As my acting teacher once said - you don't have to piss your pants on stage because your character does - you must make the audience believe that you are WET and guide them through your humiliation.

Streep is an exhibitionist. She puts on a show - but takes us nowhere.

[quote]For all that people accuse her of "gobbling up" all the choice roles in her age category, I'd love to know what wonderful female parts she DIDN'T play in great directors' works. (Which role in a Paul Thomas Anderson movie would you have had her play, for example?)

R25, I think that way of looking at Streep's career presumes a lack of agency on her part. It's not that she could have played Amber Waves, it's that she didn't make working with Anderson a priority after seeing Boogie Nights. For a person with Streep's power, the question isn't what role could she have played in a Paul Thomas Anderson movie, the better question is what movie of Streep's should she have insisted that he direct? Or, alternatively, consider that Streep could have at any time told Anderson that she wanted him to write a female Daniel Plainview for her, and he probably would have done it.

At least in the past few years, I think Streep has done better in terms of working with people who are having a real moment instead of choosing talentless hacks like Phyllida Lloyd or great directors past their prime (Demme, Altman). Her role in Little Women was small, but jumping on the chance to work with Greta Gerwig after Lady Bird was a smart move, and even though Don't Look Up is divisive, Adam McKay has a vision that someone like David Frankel does not.

Sorry, R28, I meant to refer to you in my last post instead of citing to myself.

I can see Meryl in any of the roles Glenn has played but can’t imagine G pulling off Sophie’s Choice or even Julia Child.

R33, thanks for a sharp and stimulating answer! (These threads don't always play out that way.) It would be interesting to see what kinds of projects might have emerged had Streep done the Reese Witherspoon thing of producing things. (I have to say, however, that the idea that Paul Thomas Anderson would love to write for Streep -- and that she'd want to do the kind of thing he'd write -- is pretty hilarious to me.)

R29 and R30, my list was simply a response to the ludicrous suggestion that Streep hasn't worked with major directors. (In Nichols' case, that means ANGELS IN AMERICA -- an outstanding film that he considered his best work ever, and she was superb in it.)

I'm still waiting to learn which films of the past 2 decades you all think that Streep should have crawled over broken glass to do. What are these movies helmed by major directors with roles in her age range that she's not doing? Who are these major auteurs that are eager to tackle such things? Please.

Meryl. She has more classic movies than Glenn and is a much more delightful celebrity.

Glenn is mannish, mumbling and unlikable.

R35, exactly. When a friend sniffed at the raves Streep got for THE DEVIL WEARS PRADA, I invited him to imagine Glenn Close in the part. Scary to contemplate.

And yet, if Glenn were to climb the highest mountain or go to the most remote area in the world, i.e. someplace where no one else could hear a thing she said, and she asked herself the question “Would I have preferred my own career or Meryl’s?” she would say Meryl’s. What actress wouldn’t?

It’s so easy to pile on Meryl because of her overwhelming success. She was in such high demand for decades that yes, she reached a point where she was over exposed and wasn’t exactly knocking it out of the park every time. But all in all, Streep has had an enviable career and is widely regarded as one of the best actors who ever lived. (The anti-Meryl loons will have seizures over that statement, but regardless of how you feel about her, you can hardly dispute that.) Glenn is probably regarded as one of the best actors of the 80s.

I like them both, but let's just give the M v G madness a rest already! They have both had wonderful careers. M's was a little showier and awards-showered, but G has nothing to complain about in the career department. And I don't think she is complaining or worrying about G at all. They have both done exceptionally well for themselves and have both done great work. And they have both done shitty work, although not too often. That is the nature of showbiz. Why aren't we complaining about other actresses who were just as good who never really got the breaks that these two did? The first one who comes to mind is Mary Kay Place, who did stunning work when given the chance. I have to say up front, I didn't like her at all (except for her singing) as Loretta Haggers in Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman. But, she was great in The Big Chill, excellent in Smooth Talk, and exceptional in Diane. She was always a stand-out in her many, many supporting roles in movies and TV shows, where she was almost always typecast as the "best friend." She was always compelling, Even in her cameos in Thirtysomething and My So-Called Life, she was able to bring something to those very lightly written roles. She gets my vote as most underappreciated actress of her generation.

I would rank Glenn below several other actresses including Meryl, Jessica, and Sigourney,

Glenn Close AND Meryl Streep!

Honestly, they're both great. I like Glenn better, but I'm actually more familiar with her. I haven't seen a ton of Streep movies. This may sound corny, as it may be frau bait, but I LOVED Streep in Bridges of Madison County.

I don't think Glenn is particularly well-liked by her peers in Hollywood. She would have an Oscar by now if people in the industry were interested in giving her one.

Helen Twelvetrees for reasons well known by both of them.

I like them both, but I’m definitely team Meryl. I think she’s a victim of her own success. People like to drag her down for sport and just to be contrary. And I’m absolutely sick of people parroting Hepburn’s comments about her (click, click, click). Hepburn was a great actress and had the most Oscar nominations until Meryl came along and she was jealous and bitter and unkind.

But in the long run, Meryl is going to go down as the greatest American Film Actress in history. And possibly the world. That’s how she’ll be remembered. The others will be remembered as great stars, but Meryl will be remembered as an acting icon. For any other actress, 5 great performances would be an incredible career. Meryl has more than 20, and people downplay how brilliant she was in certain things because she was so brilliant in so many things.

So tired of Streep and that other over rated amateur, Jack Nicholson, both always sitting front row at the Academy Awards.

R47, did you just awaken from a coma? Jack Nicholson hasn't been sitting in the front row at the Oscars or anywhere else in years.

Glenn is plain as dirt, which makes this hard. I mean, I don’t want to vote against someone just because they’re ugly, but… I’m human. We just can’t avoid it!

And I know I’m only voicing what every person here feels. Deeply.

R40 here, following up on my Mary Kay Place hysteria (sorry about that!), here is another great actress of the same generation who never got her due: Jean Smart. Just do a search on Wikipedia or Imdb.com for a look at her career. (I'm not talking about Designing Women, obviously.) Her current work on Hacks is excellent, but she has also been doing excellent work for decades. I guess these actresses (two of my very favorites) are just too low-key. But, they deliver, without all of the Glenn vs. Meryl mania.

[qiote]here is another great actress of the same generation who never got her due: Jean Smart.

She’s having her moment now. Finally.

Glenn Close was also a series regular for one season of THE SHIELD before she did DAMAGES.

What about Jennifer Jason Leigh, Spacek, and Frances McDormand?

Meh^

Meryl can do comedy. Has Glenn ever even tried? Comedy is much more difficult than drama.

Frances McDormand has like, 3 Oscars and isn’t slowing down, honey.

One role Meryl really convinced me with was Doubt. She really was brilliant in that.

I can make 'em laugh, bitches!!

[quote]Meryl can do comedy. Has Glenn ever even tried?

101 Dalmatians - huge hit

Maxie - flop

She did a guest starring role on an episode of Will and Grace in which she played an Annie Leibowitz-type of photographer, and she was actually quite funny.

Was she funny in 101 Dalmatians?

[quote]One role Meryl really convinced me with was Doubt. She really was brilliant in that.

Oh no! You have incurred the wrath of the anti-Meryl loons/Cherry Jones fanatics.

[quote]Was she funny in 101 Dalmatians?

Disney obviously thought so, as they signed her to do the sequel a few years later.

What were their worst roles? Let’s judge them by that.

Streep: Shrink role with Uma. Mom on the river movie?

Glenn: Stepford Wives. Big Chill ( nothing role).

I didn't think Glenn was that great in Hillbilly Elegy, which I thought was really overrated.

R31,

It really is kind of a tragedy that this movie was never made.

Anjelica Huston.

I think Glenn is okay but if her peers liked her then they would give her the AFI Life Achievement Award. My guess is she’s way down the list for consideration, since she’s not very popular in Hollywood.

[quote]R60 Was she funny in 101 Dalmatians?

She was perfectly charming. As the mom dog.

Jessica Lange. Come on.

Too bad they wouldn’t get a really juicy role. Most roles now suck, even for the young actresses.

G could absolutely get an Oscar with the right role. Unless she’s on some sort of blacklist,

Julianne Moore.

I don’t get why Glenn wouldn’t be well liked in Hollywood. She’s a perfectly nice and uncontroversial person. But she is also shy and introverted and has never lived in Los Angeles (I don’t think) so she’s never really been part of “the scene”.

Spacek took time off and the roles she’s had since tend to be supporting and often in small films. She’s always better than the material, but it’s difficult to compare her with someone who has worked steadily like Streep.

Lange is just adequate. Even with her smaller body of major roles, it’s obvious that Spacek blows the doors off Lange as an actress.

Streep’s accents are easy to mock and often distracting but she was great in “Angels in America” where her technical approach really worked and she played off some great cast mates.

I love both but think Close is the more interesting actress.

But I agree that Sissy Spacek may be even greater than both. Both Close and Streep can ham it up whereas Sissy is consistently great and always loses herself in the role. You never catch her acting, whereas there are times when you can tell when Close and Streep are performing.

Neither. They’re both awful.

G's shyness and introversion have made it difficult for her to leave the house and attend social functions. On the rare occasions when she musters the courage to go out, she acts like such a wallflower that she might as well have stayed at home, away from the spotlight she so assiduously avoids.

I think they’re both tremendous.

I will forever associate that Glenn twerking clip with the end of the Oscar’s, and Will Smith pounded the final nail in the coffin with on-site violence.

I know Albert Nobbs is a big joke on DL but it’s one of my favorite Glenn performances.

I liked seeing Glenn twerking. And who could ever forget the shading look she gave that attention whore Billy Porter on the red carpet.

Glenn seems funner to be around than Meryl, who is about as pretentious about her "craft" as Phylicia 'Thea'tah is...' Rashad.

Except that Billy Porter wasn’t the object of her evil eye. She was having a comical exchange with Melissa McCarthy, a fellow nominee for Best Actress that year and who was also wearing a cape and was being interviewed by Billy Porter at the time.

[qiote]here is another great actress of the same generation who never got her due: Jean Smart.

She’s having her moment now. Finally.

said no one ever

VIOLA DAVIS!!!!!!!!!!

Fuck you old, white faggots. Are these the only two “great”’actresses because they have white skin and pink vaginas?????????

Take off those hoods and accept that this hood bitch is the new GOAT!!!

Streep is a good time gal. She likes to drink and laugh with her friends.

Glenn is a depressive who spends time alone in her basement looking at scrapbooks.

I don’t get that from her at all. Does she have kids? (G)

Glenn has one daughter who she tries to get acting jobs for.

Meryl has three daughters she tries to get acting jobs for, and one son who she tries to get music jobs for.

Glenn has been pretty open that she suffers from depression.

Streep is no doubt fun and funny. And a phenomena. It's nice to see people put her back in perspective though and tire of her hammy performances in mostly bad films. OY all the bad singing she has done in film after fucking film. She started out as the most amazing and vulnerable and startling actress. She hasn't been real or amazing in about 30 years. As an actress. As a person and friend - she is no doubt fun.

But none of Meryl's co stars love her the way Tom Cruise or John Travolta's costars do. Why is that?

Glenn is a more mysterious actress. I find her more compelling. But her looks did limit her and like most Pisces women - she ran out of acting surprises kind of early in the game. See Liza and Liz and Vanessa Williams, Queen Latifah & Sharon Stone. They can still deliver - just nothing new.

Glenn, despite being a New England WASP, didn't have the cookie-cutter childhood like Meryl. It makes sense why she suffers from depression.

What are you even talking about? Streep is very popular with actors and costars. And people say nice things about Tammy because they are on his payroll.

"Lange is just adequate. Even with her smaller body of major roles, it’s obvious that Spacek blows the doors off Lange as an actress."

Bingo. Lange is fine, but she was a critic's favorite in 1982 and has lived off that ever since. She was charming (not great) in Tootsie. Terri Garr should have been the winner for that film. She was acceptable in Frances, but not excellent. She was the actress du jour at the time, and she won an Oscar for Tootsie (which was more than she deserved). But her career was hot at the time, so that was acceptable. But she was never a great actress. Engaging. Yes. Funny when it called for it. Yes. Pretty? Yes. But that was about it. I never saw the "it" that the Hollywood press said she had. She was kind of boring. Terri Garr was the one who was robbed in 1982. Not Jessica.

Lest we forget, remember Jessica in King Kong!

C'mon, Jessica was fantastic in Frances.

Just to add, Jessica, thanks to American Horror Story, has become a drag queen actress. We love it. She's a hoot. But that is not great acting.

Jessica Lange has the better body of work, especially considering that she hasn't made nearly as many films (be her own choice) as Streep and Close. Lange inhabits her characters, while Streep and Close act them.

I like Jessica, but come on.... She's not an actress.

[quote]R71 G could absolutely get an Oscar with the right role.

And SUNSET BOULEVARD will change everything. Any day now.

"Not an actress."

Hmm.

Meryl of course. But I love Glenn as well

R98 awards are meaningless.

I know!

[quote]R73 I don’t get why Glenn wouldn’t be well liked in Hollywood. She’s a perfectly nice and uncontroversial person. But she is also shy and introverted and has never lived in Los Angeles (I don’t think) so she’s never really been part of “the scene”.

SHY?? The reason Hollywood keeps G at a distance is because for decades she threw her skinny ass at directors, producers… anyone who could help her pull ahead of M. The men resented it and their women resented it more.

In short, was embarrassing.

She never learned to roooollllll with the punches.

Not for 'nothin', but Jess Lange is lookin' a lot like Caitlyn Jenner in your third photo, R98.

Jessica -- I'm sorry, since we're both in the acting world, I am allowed to call her Jessie -- is not an ACTRESS, she's an ATRACTRESS! Or at least she was before she went all Caitlyn Jenner on our asses! Ha! Just Jack 2022!

Jessica Lange is a highly rewarded actress and is LOVED as a goddess. Respected as a miracle, mysterious woman and performer. She is a legend. More people will tune in to Lange on streaming or the late show than Meryl. Jessica is lovely and she's been in some exciting and funny and darkly romantic films. She can't overshadow Sissy Spacek in Crimes of The Heart, but we enjoy every moment of Lange's scenes and their unlikely sisterhood.

People fear Streep. She's not nice and very condescending. And no - her co stars other than Nicholson and Diane Keaton did NOT love her. Goldie Hawn and Shirley MacLaine outshone Streep. Cher is respectful, but they are not friends. Amy Adams and Julia Roberts had to make nice with her for awards seasons, but no. Deniro lost respect for Streep 20 years ago - which is 10 years later than most others. She's too competitive with her costars - an upstage queen. And that's how Julia Roberts walked away with AOC. As Zellweger and Hurt were better in One True Thing. Amy Adams, Streep and Philip Seymour Hoffman, along with Viola were probably the most dynamic cast of equal power and diverse gifts that Streep has ever worked with on screen. Doubt is one of her very BEST movies, precisely because even with all her business, Streep doesn't manage to overshadow the more deeply moving and talented cast.

Every female costar of Tom Cruise, including Nicole Kidman ADORES him. They are not on his payroll and most are never likely to work with him again. Zellweger, Penelope Cruz, Cameron Diaz, Thandie, Emily Blunt, Jada Pinkett and Tripplehorn rave about him as a costar, gentleman and total pro. Most all of them admit to having a crush on him and enjoying their film romances. Tammy is some derivative of what? Tom Cruise is not a FAG.

I must say I liked Glenn better on “Damages” than in any of her movies. She really was perfect in that role.

[quote]The reason Hollywood keeps G at a distance is because for decades she threw her skinny ass at directors, producers… anyone who could help her pull ahead of M. The men resented it and their women resented it more.

Ah, the beauty of the internet, where anyone can type anything on their basement keyboard and it magically shows up on the screen for all to see.

I met Glenn's daughter briefly a few years ago and she was incredibly nice and down to earth.

In contrast to the 3 talentless and plain Gummer girls, who destroy almost every project they touch.

Not even Meryl can make us love her dreary daughters.

I love Meryl, Jessica, Glenn, Sissy, Sigourney, Kathy, Kathleen, etc. I never really cared for Sally though.

R 105 is delusional and makes up stories for attention

Can we add Anjelica to the list of loved ones, R110?

I agree with you about Sally. Nothing much negative to say - but I don't get her great acclaim. She may well be the best example of an actress who won awards for turning in the best performance that year. Well cast in the right film with a good director.

Like Diane Keaton for Annie Hall. Or Shirley MacLaine in Terms of Endearment.

In other words: deserved.

They both have Oscar nominations, but Glenn never won. Of course, being nominated is an honor.

R32, her performance in 'Doubt' says otherwise.

I see that AWF Troll has arrived (see R105). Now watch him accuse me of being Cinesnatch, Charlie, or Miss Warwick.

His hate for Streep is on the same level as that of Barbra Streisand (who he likes to call Barbaric Striezand or Barbra Streusel). He's insufferable.

[quote] Jennifer Jason Leigh

Tragically underrated. But she’ll never be remembered as a star, which is sad. Talking like she has lockjaw doesn’t help, but so many missed opportunities to nominate her for an Oscar. Fast times. Georgia, Delores Claiborne, Mrs Parker (which I know people hated but she had that scene in the hospital where she smiles and says “oh, and all my friends came!” and looks at Gwyneth and still smiling says “And Paula.” 🤣), Last Exit to Brooklyn (which would be a HARD Oscar sell). And I thought she should have won for the Hateful Eight.

Absolutely brilliant actress.

[quote]R112 I agree with you about Sally. Nothing much negative to say - but I don't get her great acclaim.

I respected her more after reading her autobiography. She really took acting seriously and studied at the Actors Studio West for years (after she’d already had two hit shows.)

She’s brilliant in SYBIL, but I have no desire to see any of her other things a second time.

Sally should've won for Lincoln. She was breathtaking as Mary Todd Lincoln.

I enjoyed R105's post. It's not full of hate. Enlightening. Truthful. Clever. Smart. Streep is not god. I doubt she even knows jesus.

Cinesnatch, Charlie or Miss Warwick? You sound really paranoid R115. Are you afraid of being banned?

You must be that old racist white man who is always stalking other posters on this site from your multiple devices and accounts?

No doubt you will be banned again.

I'm TeRi with one R.

[quote] I enjoyed [R105]'s post.

Of course, you did, AWF/119, you wrote it! Commenting under one of your sock puppets doesn't fool anyone.

By now, anyone who's been around Datalounge long enough can detect your writing style. Now go to sleep, it's almost midnight in Saskatchewan.

Cinesnatch likes to pretend he is under 50 but he's closer to 80. Nothing evil about that poster - its too boring. Is he from Canada?

And Parton helped fund the Moderna vaccine. Which I have been a recipient of four times and counting.

I'm better than all these bitches!

So reply 105 is 2 truths and a lie? The truth is everyone loves Meryl. Lies: Tom Cruise is easy to work with and is a big heterosexual? WTF?

Tracey Ullmann seems to love Meryl. She doesn't seem like someone who suffers fools gladly.

It’s a parody post.

That is the truth of both Tom Cruise and Meryl Streep. There is no parody posts except all those from the sad return of the ANCIENT WHITE RACIST OLD FAG who haunts this site. Beware. F&F. KKGramps posts from multiple accounts, all day and night.

I dislike both of these bitches almost equally much. Glenn because she's a mediocre actress. Meryl because she lied about Harvey Weinstein.

Harvey Weinstein is a GOD! And then the fake fucking bitch curtsied? Merly doesn't know jesus, but #SheKnew that HER god raped young actresses. And helped her win awards. Streep is la cochon.

I’m willing to believe that people would be too nervous to tell her or gossip about Harvey Weinstein in front of Meryl Streep. She’s certainly not dumb, but she strikes me as someone uninterested in sordid tales and people probably didn’t tell her. She’s a Queen! You don’t tell the Queen horror stories. You make polite, pleasant conversation and secretly wish for her approval.

#MerylKnew

Plus, anyone that knew and didn’t tell her was complicit and probably were so desperate to have her be part of their films that they wouldn’t tell her anything that would make her walk.

As much as I didn't like The Wife or Hillbilly Elegy, Close's work was admirable.

Streep hasn't done anything remarkable since Prada, 16 years ago, which, if you think about it, is a bit shocking considering she is supposed to be "the world's greatest actress" and she gets to handpick all of her roles. Streep needs a reset. Maybe stop chasing baity roles and start working with more cutting-edge directors. Stop playing it so safe.

#GlennKnew&SaidNothing

"I'm sitting here, deeply upset, acknowledging to myself that, yes, for many years, I have been aware of the vague rumors that Harvey Weinstein had a pattern of behaving inappropriately around women,” six-time Oscar-nominated actress Glenn Close wrote in a statement released Monday to the The New York Times. “Harvey has always been decent to me, but now that the rumors are being substantiated, I feel angry and darkly sad.”

Glenn. She's fiery and has passion.

M leaves me cold.

R38 She already played the part as Cruella. Twice. So The Devil Wears Prada would not have been ill-suited for her.

Glenn, Jane Fonda and Emma Thompson came clean about what they had heard and in their hearts knew about Weinstein. For Years. But Streep who had much more success with him is supposed to not know? When her best friends in the world were Carrie Fisher, Nora Ephron and Tracey Ullman?!? Give the world a fucking break. Like they didn't bitterly joke about Harvey luring and raping young actresses all the time. Streep knew.

Unlike real women like Paltrow, Jolie, Glenn Close, Ashley Judd, Emma Thompson, Mira Sorvino and Jane fucking Fonda - Queen Meryl had heard nothing and had nothing to reveal but her SHOCK and outrage! If that LIE doesn't prove her a mediocre actress, what does?

G. over M. any day.

Glenn easily. She has several classics like Dangerous Liaisons and Fatal Attraction whereas Meryl doesn't have a single classic.

On top of that, Glenn is more recognizable with younger people and children because of her work with Disney. New generations know her over Meryl because of her Cruella and as the voice of Kala in Tarzan.

neither.

[R128], fuck off, nazi! you're not the only one who can post retarded lies and made up fascist bullshit on this site. go get your hole steamrolled.

"#GlennKnew&SaidNothing"

THEY ALL FUCKING KNEW! Meryl, Glenn, Julia Roberts, George Clooney, Jim Carrey, Leo DeCaprio, Russell Crowe, Nicole Kidman, Sandra Bullock, Barbra Streisand, etc., etc..... Even old-timers like Shirley MacClaine and Katharine Hepburn probably fucking knew! I imagine even Urkel and the cast of Saved by the Bell knew. It is a town of about 5,000 people. Everyone knows everyone else. If they tell you otherwise, they are full of shit.

R115, you should place AWF troll on Ignore like I did a year ago.

I'm sure he still cums--I mean, comes--for me, lol.

He's a toxic mess.

No one has cum for cinesnatch since before I was born. He still had to pay for it. $$$ Dude is almost 80 years old.

👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 ^

The fact that NO ONE from the Osage August County film said ANYTHING about Misty Anne Upham after she was raped by scumbag Harvey and then committed suicide speaks volumes about Hollywood. To this day, no one dares admit they knew what happened. All they care about is covering their asses. George Clooney maimed some poor gay kid in Italy and got a pass. These people are evil.

Can you please offer proof that Clooney "maimed" a kid?

Sorry, August Osage County. You have to spell these things correctly or the dyslexic, underachievers in Hollywood won't understand. RAPE by Weinstein. ATTEMPTED MURDER by Clooney.

maim: To injure, disable, or disfigure, usually by depriving of the use of a limb or other part of the body.. To make imperfect or defective; impair:

[quote]ATTEMPTED MURDER by Clooney.

Can you please offer proof Clooney attempted to murder a kid?

You or people like you have been pushing this bizarre falsehood on DL recently.

Meryl's coasted by for decades - she is as canny a politician and career manager in Hollywood as anyone in the business in its entire history. She clearly "won" in terms of prestige, awards, reputation, headlining "important movies", critics' darling, etc. Glenn is a survivor but much more erratic in career choices and performances. But - at the end of the day - I have to think - will in 50 years anything that Meryl has done survive or be as powerful and remembered as what Glenn did in Fatal Attraction? I don't think so. And if your answer is "Sophie's Choice" or "Kramer vs Kramer" or "The Hours" you miss my point entirely.

Meryl Streep is a superstar. And she is one because there’s a thread which binds her individual onscreen turns and elevates her filmography into something bigger than an accumulation of some good or bad performances. Unlike “traditional” superstars, from Cagney to Cruise, from Crawford to Roberts, this thread is not about a distinctive persona and looks, a collection of mannerisms and schticks (unless, as some may say, Streep’s versatility is a schtick in itself). With Streep it’s about an undercurrent theme which turns the overall onscreen outturn of her into a kind of dissertation on issues that happened to be of interest. But in her case, there are two different themes which correlate with the different stages of her career – and in between, when it seemed there was no such thread, it also seemed she lost her mojo.

Streep appeared on the scene in the late ‘70s and became a full-blown star in the early ‘80s. She was the first female dramatic star to emerge after the feminist uprise. Her predecessor, Jane Fonda, in the way her persona and the roles she played evolved, was its incarnation, in real time. Streep took a different path. Practically all the women she portrayed in the first decade or so of her career were in a social position a woman in the 19th century could occupy – wife, mother, governess, illustrator, writer, factory worker. No lawyer, scientist, magazine editor, state person in site. But this study of traditional womanhood turned out to be a very fractured, distressed portrayal. It says a lot when the only well-adjusted wife and mother one is playing is Lindy Chamberlain. And, unsurprisingly, while it earned her an overwhelming respect and admiration, the disturbing nature of her body of work alienated a lot of people. She didn’t offer sex, sensuality, likeability. She wasn’t fun.

So, she broadened her horizons. And the next decade and a half saw her going all over the place. Drama, comedy, action – you name it. At times it paid off – Bridges was one of her best and most successful takes on adultery (a very common theme in her films). House of Spirits was her (as well as Close’s) Nadir. Overall, the momentum seemed to have gone. And then, in 2004, she became the youngest female recipient of the AFI Life Achievement Award. She was officially crowned the best actress – EVER, IN THE UNIVERSE, NO - IN ALL GALAXIES, and so on. She was no mere thespian anymore. From now on, she was not an actress interpreting a role. She was La Streep, The Acting Goddess nobly applying HER GIFT on the screen. There was no way for her to disappear into a role anymore, it seemed. And then came Prada.

And Streep found a new artistic outlet. From then on it was all about The Performance. Not only in the sense that her appearing in a film was often its main selling point, but in that in many of her later films, her performance was about the nature of performing. And its connection to being celebrated. This is obvious in films she was portraying performers – Julie & Julia, Ricki and the Flesh, Florence Foster Jenkins. But it’s more intriguing in the many films she plays “Prominent Women”. Unlike earlier, now she was playing women in positions of power – in their own family, in the local community or even nationally. And her take on them is that, in order to make their mark, to call the shots, to rule – they all have to put on a show. They are all Performers, with a capital P.

In many of her later films - Prada, Doubt, Iron Lady (great performance, horrible film), August (interesting yet noy truly successful performance, horrible film), Into the Woods, Suffragette, The Post, Let them All Talk – Streep plays women who are faking it, trying to make it as the rulers of their own universes. So, she’s seen having vocal lessons (TIL), learning her scripted lines (The Post), without her wig (August) or makeup (Prada). There’s always an inherent dissonance between the seemingly assured public persona and self-doubting (pan intended) personal self. And while I respect and even accept many of the claims made by Streep distractors – no one can defend It’s Complicated, I guess – I suggest that in many cases her performances should, or at least could, be evaluated in this context. And those acting choices she makes, which are heavily criticized for being overly or obviously “Actorly”, can be seen as being made in character, therefore, if not satisfying, at least interesting.

That’s all.

TL:DR.

Glen is one of the greatest actresses of all time. She gets lost in the role leaving the viewer completely mind blown forgetting this is the same woman who moved from Dangerous Liasions, to Fatal Atraction, to Albert Nobbs with pure ease. Brilliant thespian. I love Glen.

I am happy to defend It’s Complicated. It’s a funny film.

Some of these posts are way OTT.

And blaming either of them for Harvey Weinstein is unfair. He did the crimes. They were not aware of physical assaults.

[quote]I love Glen

Clearly not enough to learn how to spell her name correctly, though.

R158, Your right. Oh my. Still love Glenn forever.

Well, Glenn many other said they had heard rumours about Harvey for years.

Meryl like Judi Dench said they never heard a word spoken - what crap.

In honestly people who have heard 'rumours' are not in a position to goo the the police based on 'rumours', But people like Streep & Stench saying that they had never heard anything sounds terrible odd.

I don’t think they said they heard nothing, they said they didn’t know about the rapes. Streep knew Harvey was a bully, and a rumored womanizer. But everyone still worked with him because he was a successful producer.

Which one would have had the better porn career in their prime?

Which one sings better?

Which one played the more convincing male?

Meryl

Which one had more naturally blonde hair?

Meryl better singer

Why would they want to do porn? They started when acting was a real profession

Which one can hold her liquor better?

Which one would win in an arm wrestling competition?

Which one has been to paradise but never been to "her"?

Speaking of Barbara Hershey, severely underrated, very fiery actress, enjoy her.

Which one can whistle better?

Jennifer Jason Leigh didn't have traditional prettiness, was a tad too creepy, but is absolutely talented. Another underrated gem.

Which one can chop down a tree the fastest?

Which one has (allegedly) fucked more of her leading men?

Which one has more Oscars

Which one slept with both Kevin Kline AND William Hurt?

Barbara Hershey.

Barbara? Please.

I say both of them, R177.

Hurt was hotter but Kevin was less likely to slap a girl around in those days.

(R48) Ha Ha, for a simpleton, like yourself, I was not describing the current Hollywood scene, but past telecasts where those two over rated amateurs always garnered the front row seats even if not nominated.

Sissy

Meryl

Jessica

Anjelica

Candace

Glenn

Diane

Barbara

Bette

Streep's greatest role in convincing us she knew absolutely nothing about Harvey Weinstein's antics, but did warn her daughter to stay away from him.

Of course she told her daughters to stay away from him. He was known for using the casting couch.

The great G would never be such a hypocrite like M.

G wasn’t getting jobs. She’s not a good example.

That whole "Meryl Knew" bullshit was started by Rose McGowan. You know who else knew?? Fucking Rose McGowan, because she took a payoff from Harvey in 1997 and kept her mouth shut for DECADES while Harvey continued to go after other women.

Glenn

I like Gleryl Cleep. She embodies the best of both of the other actresses.

Can they both star in a remake of Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?

Can they both star in a remake of Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?

R187 that's one thing I don't like about Rose. She never owns up to that.

Kate Winslet is coming.

Glenn or Glenda?

Neither actress is a Golden Age style leading lady. They were lucky to follow the 70s era that shook-up who had leading roles in films and elevated the options for people who previously would have been character players. It also meant actors didn't have linear careers where character roles o(mostly the men) or playing mothers (the women) were the natural endpoints. Eventually, we had Julia Roberts and Sandra Bullock as more conventional leading actresses, but that isn't the only career trajectory. Streep's career has been more like Paul Muni's than even Hepburn's. Close has never had really conventional glamor---she's more "handsome" than a beauty and would have been difficult to cast in the Golden Age---if she had more humor, she could have had a Myrna Loy-like career.

If I had a quarter for every time someone compared Meryl Streep's career to Paul Muni's.....

Neither of them would have made it past the front desk in the Golden Age, R195. Even with her youthful glow Streep was not simply conventionally pretty enough for MGM, RKO, or the other studios. Neither was Close.

I wonder if either one might have persevered in character roles, on the Margaret Hamilton/Thelma Ritter/Agnes Moorehead/Mary Wickes track. Those ladies worked steadily, but in minor roles, as villains or as comic relief.

Streep easily could have made it in old Hollywood but she didn’t have to because she is not a time traveler.

The thread title is all wrong, for starters.

It should be “Meryl Streep or Glenn Close?”

I get top billing.

R199 it is alphabetical....

I doubt anyone can top Streep’s record Oscar noms

Does anyone know what Meryl’s next project is? They announced she was doing a movie called “Places, Please” about a theater actress, but then it never happened.

The movie was a piece of shit, but Meryl was great here. I always felt like her performance in The Manchurian Candidate was a warm up for her to play Miranda Priestly in Prada.

[quote]R302 Does anyone know what Meryl’s next project is?

[quote]Does anyone know what Meryl’s next project is? They announced she was doing a movie called “Places, Please” about a theater actress, but then it never happened.

It's not accurate to say that it never happened. It is a project in development and the script is still being worked on. Streep is still attached.

R204 should die in a god damn grease fire!

Glenn is developing a new competing film, “Depression, Please.”

I would've fit right in in Golden Age Hollywood, and Mmes Streep and Close could've played my wisecracking sidekick, spinster aunt, or wicked housekeeper.

Bette Davis was no beauty. Neither was Kate Hepburn, although I keep hearing from old queens what a beauty she was. I think she was a great actress, but Kate was no beauty. So, you see, even during the studio system days plain people became stars if they were talented enough.

I think Kate, even if mannish, had clean, crisp, and attractive features. Bette was seen as an ugly movie star even though she had moments of being truly attractive. Neither Meryl nor Glenn have the strong personality or star charisma of either.

Nothing would stop Meryl from doing a straight remake of SUNSET BLVD., right? Glenn just holds the musical rights hostage.

M should do it as a quick project for HBO or something. Just because.

Maybe with Armie Hammer as Joe, Kevin Branagh as Max (or should be older?) The supporting cast doesn’t really matter much - it’s the thought that counts.

Meryl is almost 75 years old. That's not the story of Norma Desmond. And she wouldn't do it unless she could punish the public with more of her "singing."

"Neither Meryl nor Glenn have the strong personality or star charisma of either."

You may have a point there, and I may be very much in the minority in my opinion, but I believe Meryl has a very strong personality and star charisma (although not of the Old Hollywood kind). It took me a few years to get me on board with Mery, I liked her very much in her supporting roles in Kramer vs. Kramer and Manhattan but could not stand her Acting (with a capital A) in The French Lieutenant's Whore and (dear God) the abomination that was Out of Africa. But later, when she loosened up a bit, I started to enjoy her more. I know that no one here likes The River Wild, but that is exactly the period when I started enjoying her performances. She had already proven herself in her 80s movies as a STAH and was now open to more offbeat choices. So, I really started to enjoy her in the early-90s onward (probably starting with Death Becomes Her and Postcards from the Edge) because she did have her own charisma going for her by then and didn't seem so desperate. The turning point was probably the Roseanne movie, She Devil, which I absolutely hated. But she did start to seem more likable and personable after that. Who knows? It's just my opinion and I don't expect anyone else to agree with it.

Of course Streep has charisma. She has been a huge star for almost 50 years. She also creates more comments than any other actress on Datalounge. It’s been this way for years. So the public is fixated on her.

Glenn has also got charisma and been iconic in certain roles. She just never had the industry support to win an Oscar. There always has been some other actress up that they like more (Jodie, Cher, etc.).

Slightly off topic but I don’t see anyone younger who is very good, maybe Kate Winslet or Olivia Colman, who is excellent. I had hopes for Charlize and Cate, but they seem plastique.

Streep has the greatest publicity team and hype machine in the world. She is bland and blah in every role I've seen her in.

Charlize is not plastic - she's just not that good, R214. Monster was not a deep performance - it was a low budget crap shoot. She was lucky and she won. But her portrayal of Aileen Wuornos does not stay with you.

Cate Blanchett, whether you like it or not - is very much in the Meryl mode, but a much better actress, far more beautiful woman and unlike Meryl - she's not afraid of performing great works on STAGE. She's funnier than Streep - and more deeply affecting. Most of the time.

To paraphrase another poster: There is not a role that Streep played that Blanchett could not do as well or better.

Aside from Streep's SHITE singing parts - which Cate knows better than to attempt. Though anyone can sing Into The Woods when Donna Murphy dubs the part for you.....

Ricki and The Flash!?! Who can ever take Merly serious after that craptastic display? Co-starring a Gummer and Rick Springfield! Merly in braids. YIKES. What POS movie the bitch won't do to prove that she still CAN'T sing! 🙀

Winslet is the BEST film actress of the last 25 years. Did you just get the memo? Kirsten Dunst is also very fine and sometimes so is McDormand. Jennifer Lawrence and Amy Adams have had fine moments too. Annette Bening is STILL great. Blanchett, Colman and Julianne Moore. All more fascinating than Meryl.

R215 I'm sure Meryl will be really upset once she hears about you.

Bette Davis was not conventionally beautiful (compared with, say, Hedy Lamarr, or a young Ava Gardner) but she was quite striking when younger. And appealing. And yes, men found her desirable.

In her earlier movies like THREE ON A MATCH, even when surrounded by prettier girls, Bette was the one you were drawn to onscreen.

That's a star.

Katharine Hepburn no beauty? I'm not even a fan of her rather mannered, limited acting, but the lady had presence. And the cameras ADORED her.

Yes, Kate Hepburn was a beauty. Watch the Philadelphia Story and come back and say she was not beautiful.

Bette Davis had the most electric screen presence of any actress ever on film. Meryl is a BIG fan of Bette Davis. That is a very smart opinion. Bette Davis didn't age well or have a great body - but she was most imposing and attractive and sometimes even a pretty woman. What matters most is - she is still the most SEISMIC actress to ever appear in Hollywood movies. Good or bad performances, she is still the most impressive screen actress of all time. IMO.

Uh oh, the crazed Donna Murphy fan is back.

I really doubt Cate Blanchett could play all of Meryl's roles. She can't do musical comedy or be a romantic lead. Even if she tried, no one would see the movies.

The stars from the 40's were beautiful, due to good lighting and B/W photography. If you saw them without makeup, however, they would look the same as anyone else.

Katharine in "Holiday"

[quote]]r216 unlike Meryl - Blanchett’s not afraid of performing great works on STAGE.

Streep started out doing classical works on the New York stage (Shakespeare, Brecht, Williams) and returned to do The Seagull and Mother Courage in 2001. I think it has to be a really special offer for her to commit to a play… and frankly I’d be nervous for her. She’s such a huge star, and there’s a lot of crazies out there.

^^ sorry - Streep’s Mother Courage was in 2006. Not 2001.

Where is her Phaedra? Her Lady Macbeth?

Haha! That always cracks me up!.

R219, that is a stunning photograph of Hepburn. But she still doesn't look beautiful in it. She is very attractive, a handsome woman, in that photo. I'm not saying she wasn't attractive. I just don't think she was beautiful though. I remember having this conversation with my mother (now 80) when I was about 10. She said critics were always trying to force Hepburn down their throats when she was young. My mother said she and her friends thought she was a fine actress. But she added that the constant insistence that Kate was beautiful was ridiculous. This was someone who lived through that age and went to the movies constantly. Gay history has rewritten the Katharine Hepburn saga, but she just wasn't the beauty that gay men say she was. In fact, like another "beauty" Joan Crawford, she was deemed Box Office Poison for a few years!

R221 is the ancient, grotesque & kinda DUMB, Cinesnatch. He doesn't sign his posts when he's attacking people.

Meryl can't do musical comedy either. It's a tragedy when she attempts to "sing."

Just as an aside, Kevin Kline is a big old queen, isn't he? I looked at that photo of Meryl making out with him (yes, I realize it was from a play) and thought, wow, I thought he had come out years ago!

By the way, you don't want to hear about what the "real movie-goers" thought about Judy Garland. It's quite a different tale than what we gays believe. Late-breaking news: The heteros were not as in love with her as we are.

I'm gay and not in love with Judy Garland. In films she is totally of no interest to me. She was perky and corny and kind of annoying. Terrible speaking voice. In later films was a wreck who faked being perky and corny but looked 30 years older than her age. She did a few interesting live singing performances that I've seen here and on YouTube.

I like Glenn Close, but she makes horrible choices when it comes to film roles…or maybe she’s just not getting the best offers. Meryl has quite a few shitty movies on her resume ad well, but she also gets the luxury of having the first right of refusal on most roles for women her age.

Meryl is ancient and over. At last. There ARE no women her age starring in films. When she's 80 and her most recent facelift relaxes - she can come back in a supporting role as grandmother in a HILARIOUS comedy. Maybe she'll sing I'm Still Here?🤞

Gross Judy Garland thought her 14 year old son Joe had great sex appeal. What a fucking delusional wet brain lying old woman. There's a reason everyone got over her. She was DUMB. And a bit of a monster.

Hepburn was more "handsome" than pretty. Nice features and a patrician air. Pretty much sums up Glenn, too. Hepburn had some flair for comedy but rarely showed it. Ditto Glenn.

I like Streep in roles where she's more a part of an ensemble like River Wild (the plot is a bit stupid, but nothing wrong with the cast) or where she can have fun with the part like "Prada".

I like Blanchett in her more unsympathetic roles like the tiresome Meredith in "The Talented Mr. Ripley". Blue Jasmine is too obviously an homage to "Streetcar" and she seems hammy in it.

I will always prefer Blanchett's work in the early part of her career - loved Hanna, The Gift even Bandits was entertaining. Carol was a fine film but thought Notes on a Scandal was the beginning of her over the top acting.

She clearly can't lead or open a movie and must be part of an ensemble. She has been in some really bad movies - The Good German, Monuments Men, Where'd you Go Bernadette, Ocean's 8, Song to Song, Nightmare Alley. Lots of them and yet she is revered.

I think Meryl is one of the best actresses ever, much more so than Glenn. My favorite younger actress is Jodie Comer - lots of potential.

Spacek's ability to inhabit characters is what Streep's more technical approach can't achieve, but Spacek likes being part of an ensemble and probably couldn't carry a picture now.

I like both.

Part of Kate Hepburn's appeal to me were:

Natural beauty in the classic sense.

She was active- golf, tennis, running, and any other sport. She was an athlete

Intelligent- she was a huge of classic literature, especially Dickens.

Old Money New England

Witty- she was a lot of really good clever and witty remarks.

Young Kate Hepburn was incredibly chic (and ahead of her time) in her menswear.

Marlene Dietrich was chic. Garbo was chic.

Cate Blanchett and Tilda Swinton are both chic.

Neither Meryl nor Glenn has ever, ever been chic.

Oh, good, another dumb anti-Streep canard has resurfaced: "Donna Murphy dubbed her in INTO THE WOODS!"

I adore Donna Murphy, but come on -- it's been true for ages now that she has significant intonation issues, and for God's sake, there are bootlegs of her **in INTO THE WOODS** (in Central Park) to illustrate the problem.

Whoever originated that lie should have chosen a more plausible singer.

R241 Bebe Neuwirth is better than Donna Murphy

What a strange comment, R242. Is there a joke that I'm missing?

Bebe Neuwirth was certainly a better dancer than Donna Murphy. Other than that, um . . . no.

Glenn’s problem is her looks are distinctive, you always know it’s her face. Meryl has bland features and therefore is more of a chameleon.

R240 I thought Meryl was chic in that movie about being an author on the boat, it was recent, I forget the name. She wore all kinds of fabulous scarves.

Death on the Nile? Meryl Streep drowns in yet another halal-wrapped remake! Her hilarious 7-11 worker accent may be her very best yet! She careens from A to B minus. Meryl's version of the Carly Simon theme song "I'm Seasick for Your Love" @DonnaMurphy.sings.

The ONLY movie in which Meryl was remotely chic is Death Becomes Her. Despite having a WASPy facade and demeanor, she has never really exuded glamour—on- or off-screen.

Meanwhile, and I say this as someone who prefers Meryl as an actress, there is something effortlessly glamorous about Glenn Close.

Glenn with the comeback!

R237 Watch Night Sky.

Whilst Spacek has a co-starring role with J.K.Simmons both carry the series with such ease.

Spacek still has it in her. Problem these days is lack of funding for material to showcase her.

Ali McGraw, Audrey Hepburn, and a young Candy Bergen were all chic. Grace Kelly was chic.

Charlize Theron and Lupita Nyongo are both chic.

Neither Meryl nor Glenn has ever, ever been chic.

Who gives a flying fuck about chic.

Meryl could have been a Golden Age star if she got a nose job and had her chin reshaped. Still, she would have been cast in Stanwyck or Eve Arden type of roles.

^ But I like Glenn more than Meryl.

This pic basically sums it up:

LOL R254, that image is hysterical.

I fucking hated House of the Spirits, and while I really love both Meryl and Glenn, Glenn was just awful in this movie. She overacted in every scene she was in, which you can kind of tell just by looking that photo.

Meryl looks like Glenn's developmentally handicapped daughter in r254.

“Three Oscars.”

^^ Glenn looks close to tears in that photo.

"Yes. But my daughter is pretty."

[quote] I don’t care for either. Glenn has one truly excellent performance: Dangerous Liaisons. Meryl doesn’t have anything on that level.

Umm...there's this movie called "Sophie's Choice." You should check it out.

They are both exceptional actors.

“How ‘bout I shove one of those Oscars up your ass?”

The real contest between Meryl and Glenn is for worst dressed.

You'd never catch Jessica Lange or Sissy Spacek in some of the shit Meryl and Glenn have worn over the years.

I generally dislike Jennifer Lopez, but she is undeniably chic.

Lauren Bacall was also a handful, but she was unfailingly chic.

Gene Tierney, Carole Lombard, and the young Joan Crawford were all chic.

Neither Meryl nor Glenn has ever, ever been chic.

Can it, Judith.

Are you on another meth bender? Your repetitive posts are way off topic, which is why people ignore you.

Glenn has had chicken moments. Meryl has frumpy taste in clothes. Chic is not analogous to a woman being beautiful.

Stop trying to make chic happen! No one gives a flying fuck about chic!

I like R267's idea of "chicken moments."

Let's use that phrase moving forward.

Both Meryl and Glenn have had their chicken moments.

🐔🐣🐤

At least Glenn occasionally has a St. John Knits thing going on sometimes but Meryl has worn some dreary, blowsy, or hippydippy stuff.

The top 4 actresses of that generation:

1) Jessica Lange

2) Glenn Close

3) Frances McDomand

4) Meryl Street

5) Judy Davis

That should have been top 5 and Streep.

Many straight men found Katharine Hepburn beautiful. Even men in my age group (Early GenX) have mentioned her as someone they found attractive and desirable. She had that Connecticut preppy tomboy look locked down.

Now you are just troll baiting (again), Lange Loon. Jessica is not even the subject of this thread. She also is not considered the best actress of her generation. She is good, but only in her Jessica Lange roles (AHS on TV, in particular, where she could be campy and bitchy).

Pepe le Pew was quite chic.

I’m an unrepentant film snob and despite her 2 Oscars, DL is the only place where Jessica Lange is considered a legend of the silver screen.

Hilary Swank has 2 Oscars. Does that make her an icon as well? Um, no, because like Jessica her filmography is wildly uneven. And nowadays both have been banished to TV.

Hilary Swank deserved both her Oscars. Meryl didn't.

I’m sorry, but going off on a tangent about actresses with multiple Oscars seems downright cruel when we should be discussing Glenn Close.

r277, it's why I give up on these threads. They end up turning into troll threads, where people start throwing out off-topic insults in hopes that someone will take the bait and respond to them (and then they rinse and repeat).

R277, there was a time when Lange ranked right up there with the best of her generation, but unlike Streep, she wasn't wholly invested in preserving her status, which is unfortunate for those of us who feel she squandered whatever acting legacy she had. Close, who was still a supporting player in films when Lange was already a leading lady, has since surpassed her in output, solid filmography, and nominations.

[quote]it's why I give up on these threads. They end up turning into troll threads, where people start throwing out off-topic insults in hopes that someone will take the bait and respond to them.

As opposed to the on-topic insults that the thread was created for?

Remember when the gays all worshipped me?

I had a good hot minute there.

I never stopped working.

What the F, fickle gays?

I think Julianne has horrible taste. She starred in a lot of stinkers. She gives a lot of similar performances and I cannot recall her last truly great performance. Still Alice was a fine performance but not Oscar worthy and only an average film.

She needs another role to remind us of her talent.

[quote]r281 unlike Streep, Lange wasn't wholly invested in preserving her status, which is unfortunate for those of us who feel she squandered whatever acting legacy she had.

Lange has always put her personal life first. She doesn’t give a shit about her “acting legacy” and would find anyone who cared about it pathetic.

She’s always been happy on her Minnesota farm and really only works when she wants to.

Can you imagine Meryl in Hillbilly Elegy?

Of course not.

I like Meryl but she always has that aloof Connecticut frau cunt vibe going on. She keeps doing movies but she stop acting long ago.

At least Glenn still focuses on acting.

LOL R286. Glenn got a pity nomination for Hillbilly Elegy because she lost the Oscar for The Wife. The movie sucked and her performance was full of scenery chewing.

Agreed, R287. And has anyone here seen THE WIFE? I've rarely witnessed a more transparent Oscar bid of a performance, at the service of a dreadful screenplay.

I've loved Glenn Close onscreen (DANGEROUS LIAISONS and DAMAGES especially) and onstage (A DELICATE BALANCE), but when she's bad, she's very bad indeed.

I disagree R288. The Wife may not have been the greatest movie, but Glenn’s performance was perfectly understated and nuanced. Her use of facial expressions alone were worthy of the nomination. She deserved to win.

Meryl! Meryl! Meryl!

Mirror, Mirror on the wall, Meryl is my favorite of them all.

Kramer v Kramer, Silkwood, Heartburn, Out of Africa, Postcards from the Edge, Devil wears Prada, even Stuck on You, are in my Top 20 List of films I can watch again & again.

R289 and I evidently have different definitions of "understated" and "nuanced."

[quote]r289 Glenn’s performance was perfectly understated and nuanced

Can we PLEASE place a moratorium on that word d’jour “nuance”??

No. No we can't.

Oh FFS R291, you pick the scene where she finally loses it after years of compliance. The whole movie was about her character keeping quiet and obedient and working silently on the sidelines to help her husband, until she finally can't do it anymore. But to prove your POV you pick the outlier scene. Good for you.

Isn't The Wife an allegory for Glenn continually being in the shadow of all the other Oscar winners? She puts up with it but then (in the movie) she can't take it anymore and explodes at the end. Glenn even thought this would win her an Oscar, and apparently believed it. She wore a lavish gold dress to the ceremony, the color of the Oscar. Then the Academy did another zoom closeup on her face and crushed her dreams, and denied her once again for a British actress. They gave her a follow up bone with a supporting nod, and they did another zoom closeup on her face, but they gave the award to a South Korean actress no one had ever heard of. Ouch.

G.

[quote] I disagree [R288]. The Wife may not have been the greatest movie, but Glenn’s performance was perfectly understated and nuanced. Her use of facial expressions alone were worthy of the nomination. She deserved to win.

After that Oscar snub Datalounge was inconsolable. We've already collectively decided Glenn should have a!ready won at least two Oscars in her career.

Christine Baranski!!

This is getting silly, BUT Glenn's performance in The Wife was far more deserving of Awards than Streep's puppet show in The Iron Lady. Streep also wore a tacky gold dress to pick up her Oscar. Fat ASS.

[quote] r297 After that Oscar snub Datalounge was inconsolable.

I don’t remember it that way. Many of us were glad to see the door slammed in little Glenn’s face yet again.

Her losing year after year is such a constant it’s comforting. It’s the natural order of things! She needs to learn her place, and it’s not up at the podium.

Christine Ebersole!

Sam Rockwell looks upset too.

Shelley Long

I like Olivia Colman. But she's a solid character actress, not a leading lady.

And her Oscar convinced TPTB that she is a leading lady, which led to mediocrity like THE LOST DAUGHTER. She was perfectly okay on THE CROWN as Queen Liz, but a bit of a bore after Claire Foy, who was sensational in her seasons. (That's also the fault of the writer.)

The Oscars don't mean a lot, and they never really have.

"I like Streep in roles where she's more a part of an ensemble like River Wild (the plot is a bit stupid, but nothing wrong with the cast) or where she can have fun with the part like "Prada".

So what you're saying is that a little M goes a looooooong way!

[quote] I don’t remember it that way. Many of us were glad to see the door slammed in little Glenn’s face yet again. Her losing year after year is such a constant it’s comforting. It’s the natural order of things! She needs to learn her place, and it’s not up at the podium.

Bullshit. Nobody wanted to listen to Olivia and her dithering, stuttering speech.

That snub was a slap in the face to Glenn.

It was a dark day in DL history when Glenn lost.

A very dark day.

You know (lighting a Virginia Slim 100), I've won the leading actress award -- TWICE -- without even trying! Just struck me as kind of funny....

[quote]You know (lighting a Virginia Slim 100), I've won the leading actress award -- TWICE -- without even trying! Just struck me as kind of funny.... —Jodie

I know, right?

Funny thing is, Glenn and Meryl are great actresses who work hard to create screen impact.....but Jodie Foster is fascinating and mesmerizing. Instantly.

I don't think that's true. Meryl was pretty effortless in The Devil Wears Prada, a part that Jodie could never play. Streep also gave significant and helpful input to improve that part and movie, which most actresses do not know how to do (capably).

Maybe Meryl and Glenn are the modern Joan and Bette, except they don't have any animosity towards each other.

[quote]Streep also gave significant and helpful input to improve that part and movie, which most actresses do not know how to do (capably).

Yep. Adam McKay sings her praises about her improv skills during the filming of Don't Look Up, particularly in the first Oval Office scene where she is wrapping up a phone call.

Meryl Streep in Devil wears Prada is such a faggy role. She is broad and funny, but many others might have played the part with A: more believable style, B: less faggy. It's meant to be campy, but she's too ugly to do it right. Anne Hathaway, Stanley Tucci and Emily Blunt make the movie.

Jodie Foster absolutely could have played the part, she's much more believable as Anna Wintour than hippy fat ass featureless Meryl Streep. You can slap mountains of makeup and couture on Meryl Streep and she still looks like an albino with rickets.

Lots of actresses could have played the part of Miranda in Prada. All with a better wardrobe and a different take on the character. Meryl is funny the first time - but she's faggier than the fags in the movie AND still looks like THAT?

Streep gave the least impressive and worst calibrated performance in Don't Look Up. A universal opinion.

Whenever people laud what Meryl did in Prada, R311, I just think of how that role was meant for Sigourney. Katharine Parker in Working Girl really was the dry run, and if social media existed in the late eighties, she would have generated as many memes as Miranda Priestly did two decades later.

Outside of action films, there aren’t many things that Sigourney can do better than Meryl, but the character Miranda Priestly encompasses almost all of them: Sigourney is more imperious, she’s more glamorous, and she’s more adept at making those traits funny.

Oh, come on. Meryl was absolutely perfect as Miranda in The Devil Wears Prada.

Miranda Priestley and Katherine Parker are two completely different characters. I don't see the commonality between them.

R314 is completely off the rails.

Agree. I don't think this poster gets it, apart from wanting to screech out his ugly, repetitive remarks for attention. You can't say definitively that so and so would be better, when 1) you don't know, and 2) the movie was already made and a success, so you are wasting your time with these insults. Glenn and Meryl don't read Datalounge, so they really don't care about your stupid comments.

^ Same ^

I'm not talking to Glenn or Meryl. I am posting my opinion on Datalounge. Same as you, old man.

Isn’t there a movie where Sissy Spacek’s character who is about to hang herself answers the door with the rope around her neck and says something like, ‘I was busy’. ?

"....but Jodie Foster is fascinating and mesmerizing. Instantly."

She really is.

R315, Priestly and Parker are elitist, condescending bosses who undervalue their smart, capable assistants because they don’t conform to the superficial standards of their business world. That’s the entire point of the main relationships in both Prada and Working Girl. You really don’t think there’s any similarities between the two?

I think Meryl is great in Prada. I also happen to think that someone else could do it better.

Thanks R152. Your post was L-O-L hilarious.

Fatal Attraction. HAHAHA.

Well, I can't deny that they really me. The first time I wasn't sure but they really like me.

R319 Crimes of the Heart, though Jessica Lange finds Spacek with a rope around her neck and her head in the oven.

Is the DL Donna Murphy stan (who I believe is the same as the AWF troll) friends with someone at JustJared?

[quote]There’s even a theory that Broadway actress Donna Murphy may have provided vocals to enhance Meryl‘s voice in the movie, though this is just something that some fans have been saying and is not a confirmed fact.

^ It's not a theory. Meryl can't sing. Donna Murphy has the trained voice that sits in the same tessitura as Merlys warble. The rumor persists for good reason. Donna sings 80% of Merly's witch.

And Cinesnatch is 79 years OLD! He *is* the ANCIENT WHITE FAG!!!

Why would people be surprised that Meryl is dubbed in most of Into the Woods? Have you heard her attempts at singing in other films? She's a disgusting piece.

How on earth could you leave out Reversal of Fortune OP? You have lost all credibility. Sunny Von Bulow is legendary.

I watched "Postcards from the Edge" again tonight. It's not the kind of film that people recognize at awards season. It's basically a comedy, which the Oscars don't love. Plus it is about well-known, already well awarded people that everyone in Hollywood knows. Still.... Meryl and Shirley are mesmerizing (MARY!). The looks those two give each other as they deliver their lines are insane. This is an excellent movie. And it explains a lot about why Debbie Reynolds died so quickly after Carrie's death. They couldn't live without each other. (Yes, again, MARY!)

Another comeback from Glennie and she takes the lead again.

I was sorry that Close didn’t get an Oscar, but was also happy Colman won, she absolutely deserved it. She is one of the greatest actresses now and can do pretty much anything. I find the distinction of ‘character’ actress silly.

One I absolutely don’t get is Jody Foster. She is always cold, rigid and artificial, it works for some parts but there is no range at all.

No mention of the movie EVENING where Meryl was cast as Glenn's DAUGHTER?!!

R328 “I’m Still Here in D flat”

How did Shirley not get a Best Supporting nod?

Did anyone actually see Ricki and The Flash?

The "Donna Murphy dubbed Meryl" thing is so ludicrous, because anyone with musical ears can hear that Donna Murphy (whom I have adored live many times) has major issues with intonation. Ironically, this was particularly noticeable when she played . . . the Witch in the Central Park INTO THE WOODS.

That said, I was pretty surprised by how good Streep's high belting sounded in THE PROM. She certainly didn't sound like that in MAMMA MIA!.

Whatever studio trickery has been used in Streep's aid, I'd say that it was most convincing in the WOODS film -- it always sounds like her to me. And *if* trickery was used there, it's a shame that they didn't also use it for MAMMA MIA!.

I think they used a little trickery for Mamma Mia 2.

But seriously - they used “studio magic” for the entire cast of both Into The Woods and The Prom. And there’s nothing wrong with that, IMO, as long as the results don’t sound super auto tuned (like Cory Monteith on Glee).

Also I get the impression there was minimal rehearsal on Mamma Mia. Whereas on The Prom, Streep reportedly trained beforehand.

I quite like her singing in this live clip from Mother Courage.

There's no way in fucking hell Meryl could sing the way she "does" in The Prom. Especially the It's Not About Me number.

Of course it is her voice in The Prom. She doesn't need another person to pretend to sound like Meryl Streep. Her voice has been recognizable for years. Of all the crackpot fan theories, this one is one of the most crackpot.

[quote]No mention of the movie EVENING where Meryl was cast as Glenn's DAUGHTER?!!

Ha ha. Glenn played the mother of Meryl's character in the flashback scenes, where Meryl's younger character was played by Meryl's real life daughter Mamie Gummer (yes yes I know, this is Datalounge so insert your jokes here). Close and Streep did not share any scenes in the movie.

I thought G was better than M in the horrendous “House of the Spirits”.

I thought M was better than G in the horrendous “Evening”.

I love both Glenn and Meryl. I think Glenn was robbed of the Oscar twice: for Dangerous Liaisons and for The Wife (Colman was Supporting by FAR).

But I looked at both of their film credits on IMDb, and for all the criticism Streep gets on Datalounge for not having any blockbuster movies, I think she has a much more impressive resume. IMO she certainly has more "watchable" movies you can see multiple times, i.e., the kind of movie where if you turn on the TV and it's halfway through the film, you can still sit down and watch if from any point and get enjoyment from it.

I can't count the number of times I've watched The Devil Wears Prada, Postcards From the Edge, and even It's Complicated which, while less successful than the other two, has some great comedy in it. The interplay among Streep, Baldwin, and Martin is really fun to watch. Death Becomes Her is another one I've seen several times if I come across it while channel surfing. Same with Adaptation.

I couldn't come up with a single film in which Glenn was the lead that I can claim to have watched multiple times. There's maybe Dangerous Liaisons, IMO one of her best films, but I wouldn't exactly call it a lighthearted movie you can just pick up at any point - but regardless, you hardly ever see that film playing on cable anywhere, whereas many of Streep's older films still get air time. Fatal Attraction was a huge hit, but you pretty much never see it airing anywhere (and I personally HATED it - Adrian Lyne is a fucking hack).

Just my opinion, so go ahead, destroy my choices and tear me apart. :-)

EVENING was a big disappointment for me, given all the talent involved. But I thought that Streep was at her absolute best in it -- her scene in bed with Redgrave, followed (IIRC) by her scene with Collette and Richardson, felt real and natural and heartfelt. (By contrast, some of her scenes in THE HOURS rank among her worst screen work for me -- actressy, overwrought, not grounded.)

R341 Interesting points, but I think watchable and better quality are not interchangeable.

For example, while The Devil Wears Prada is more watchable, Dangerous Liaisons is over better quality in acting, plot, etc.

[quote]while The Devil Wears Prada is more watchable, Dangerous Liaisons is over better quality in acting, plot, etc.

Maybe so, but any actor if they're being completely honest would tell you they'd rather have a film career legacy filled with movies that are watched multiple times with memorable scenes and quotable dialogue, rather than a more "prestigious" one with only films that get acclaim when they're released and then virtually disappear. And Streep has plenty of those prestigious films as well (Silkwood, Out of Africa, A Cry in the Dark, Bridges of Madison County, etc.).

Meryl Streep is not pretty or prestigious. That's a collective misconception. Delusion. Accepted falsehood.

She made mostly ponderous films that she sometimes performed well in. All but two are forgettable. Four more are enjoyable.

[quote] Glenn Close or Meryl Streep?

I prefer Glenn Ford over Glenn Close; he had a penis.

It seems there is more hate for Linda Lavin than love for either Meryl or Glenn.

R347, the DL obsession with Linda Lavin-bashing is truly absurd. I abandoned the endless thread on the subject once I realized that 90% of the posts had to do with ALICE and no other part of her career. (Hell, 50% of the posts -- maybe more -- were about her rerecording the theme song.)