"Feud: Bette and Joan" is already forgotten

Faye is 120 years old.

I thought that Lange was superb -- sidestepping the trap of "impersonation" that Sarandon, by contrast, fell into regularly.

If FEUD is forgotten, it could be because it didn't get the normal release to DVD/streaming (presumably because of the kerfuffle with de Havilland).

It's forgotten because it aired in 2017. Which TV show from that year is still part of our cultural conversation? It was a nice enough show, but wasn't really meant as a critique of our society, which is what you normally need if you want the show to still be relevant and discussed years later.

r3 why is Mommie Dearest still as popular as ever then and very much in the culture? Your argument doesn't make sense.

FEUD was just added to HULU.

I watched it yesterday, start to finish. It holds up well.

I like this video.

You just made up a big turd OP, so you could start your asinine thread. Fuck off.

Sarandon was dead weight. She sucked.

The actress who played B.D. was hilarious in the scene where Bette tries to teach her how to act.

The original (whtbj) and a whole bunch of other classics; streetcar, the women, Virginia Woolf, splendor, gwtw, etc. All available through HBOMax. Loving these additions!

R10- An eldergay datalounge favorite is also currently available on HBOMAX

Now Voyager (1942)

I thought Susan Sarandon was much better than Jessica Lange; she was awful as Joan Crawford.

Plus, Jessica Lange has destroyed her face with plastic surgery.

It’s not even streaming anywhere, is it? Of course nobody’s talking about it anymore if they can’t watch it.

RM is overrated trash. Plays favorites. He focused entirely on Lange when Sarandon should have been given an equal chance (which is funny because she was so much better than Lange)

Sarandon blew Lange out of the water in this. Jessica was totally lost trying to play JC and seemed so infirm.

Jessica was phenomenal in this. I wish Sarandon had tried less to do an imitation of Davis.

This type of thread exemplifies why DL is toxic.

I thought it was the best thing Murphy has ever done. It had more than just a snappy beginning like most of his shows and remained compelling to the very last scene. Neither of the leads were as eerie and uncanny as Dunaway was as Crawford, but they were excellent in their own ways and worked well together.

They both sucked and so did this show. I liked Judy Davis in this.

I'm a huge fan of Bette Davis and think that Sarandon did the old gal justice. I didn't find any flaws in her portrayal and was somewhat shocked not to back when I first saw it.

Jessica Lange, who I dig, really didn't do much for me in this. She tried well enough but Sarandon kept me glued to the screen.

Ages ago there was talk that Carol Kayne was to do a Bette Davis biopic. That would have kicked ass I do dare say but it was never to be for whatever reason.

Their performances were solid - Lange gave some nuances to Crawford that had been missing since Mommie Dearest without soft pedaling Joan's rough edges.

But it was a Ryan Murphy program, which means the script is mostly total shit.

Perhaps R13, if you read down the thread rather than just hightailing it to the bottom to leave what has become a rather comical reply once you read R5.

Moron.

[Quote] It’s not even streaming anywhere, is it? Of course nobody’s talking about it anymore if they can’t watch it.

It's on Hulu.

I get answering repeat questions, on 300+ reply threads but this one hasn't even hit 25 posts. Doesn't anyone read anymore?

I loved it the first time it aired and I'll watch it again as soon as I have a chance. Lange didn't look (or more significantly, SOUND) like Crawford, but she brought much of Joan's character to her portrayal, including her intelligence about her career, her determination, and her occasionally self-destructive behavior.

Bette on the other hand was whitewashed. "I just want you to be brilliant!" Davis would never have said that to Crawford. Hell, Sarandon's Bette was the one Bette herself presented to the world "I'm just an old-fashioned Yankee dame, professional and a brilliant actress." From All About Eve onward she was a toxic, unprofessional shrew who fought with everyone. It wasn't about fighting for what's right on-set, she fought because she impossible.

I'd rather have my nails done that watch this garbage.

I could watch it again just for the scene where Joan confronts Aldrich after the press conference announcing the film where she sees Bette's better contract. Lange is brilliant in it.

Everything done by Ryan Murphy gets forgotten after a few years and ages like shit.

Feud will never be forgotten. For as long as there is DL and eldergays with internet access, a production such as Feud will be a topic of discussion for the ages.

I watched the whole thing this month for the second time. Sarandon did a better job that I thought originally. Lange and Sarandon both failed at trying to impersonate their characters when doing exact lines from the movie. They were better at just trying to do their own version of the real people.

I watched it when it first aired. It's far too long, 8 episode is too long winded, 5-6 max. It looks wonderful, design, colour, photography but there's still something flat about it. Not enough meat. I liked both Sarandon and Lange although I felt there was a very strong attempt to rehabilitate Crawford's image, which I'm not sure she entirely deserves. ( she was a crazy bitch who should have never been let anywhere near kids) Lange obviously has zero resemblance to Crawford, and that kind of hurts the show, it would have been interesting to see Demi Moore in the role, her limited acting skills would have worked well, with hair/makeup she could certainly make a more convincing Crawford.

It was just ok. Something of a missed opportunity.

Has Ryan Murphy been involved with anything that people still talk about years after it aired or influenced other shows?

Obviously Glee was a huge success and launched the careers of countless young actors but not sure that counts.

It was "easier" for a movie/show to become part of pop culture history back when the internet didn't exist, because there were less distractions, and greater opportunity for people to have a shared experience.

These days, there is just so much content, and audiences are more fragmented. Most of everything gets "forgotten" by and large.

Also, this site is geared towards gay old geezers (like myself), who grew up with Mommie Dearest or were young enough to become aware of it when it was passed down by elders closer to when it first premiered. Additionally, we're also hypercritical of everything that comes out these days as not being as good as entertainment "back then."

That being said, even though they deliver two different performances which are both high quality, Dunaway will always wipe the floor with Lange's Crawford. It's a performance for the ages.

Even worse, when was the last time you heard people discuss Superstore?

I wish it was better known. It's Murphey's fourth best show after Nip/Tuck, ACS Versace and AHS Freskshow. Maybe modern mainstream audiences don't know/care about these women?

"why is Mommie Dearest still as popular as ever"

Get away from the computer it's time for your nap.

Did you remember to take your iron pills today?

Jessica Lange was terribly miscast as Joan Crawford. She resembled her in no way, shape or form.

R9 That was Kiernan Shipka, who also played Don Draper's daughter in Mad Men. She was excellent in this. I loved Feud.

Jackie Hoffman was fun as Mamacita. Glad she got an Emmy nomination.

You may have forgotten it OP but that does not mean it wasn’t very entertaining and well acted.

Sarandon captured a certain rhythm about the way Davis moved/talked that made her believable. Lange just seemed to be Lange playing a role and that belt sander-induced plastic surgery didn't help. It looks like the Lange troll didn't have anything better to do on July 4th.

The talentless, creepily mannered Judy Davis would ruin a bowel movement.

This is well researched and edited. Her criticism of the Feud miniseries starts at about 24 minutes in.

"I know that Ryan Murphy is a huge fan of both women, and that his goal was to expose the issues they face in Hollywood, but I think that the sloppy execution makes him fall into a familiar trap that doesn't actually accomplish that."

[quote] FEUD was just added to HULU.

How come it's not on Netflix since it's a Ryan Murphy Probortion and he has a huge deal with them? All of his other crap is on there.

Very few TV movies have had a long life and this doesn't seem like it will be one of them.

R44 = idiot who doesn’t know how show business works

They can't all be The Facts of Life Go To Australia

Nip/Tuck holds up. It's still good. I just rewatched the entire series on Hulu. After all these years, I still hate the Matt, Julia, and Kimber characters! LOL!

[quote]R24 I get answering repeat questions, on 300+ reply threads but this one hasn't even hit 25 posts. Doesn't anyone read anymore? WTF

I’m hearing this in Mommie Dearest’s voice.

[italic] I post and post till I'm half dead, and I hear people say Mariah’s getting old! And what do I get? A SITE that cares as much about the BEAUTIFUL threads I give it as it cares about 90s porn legend TOM CHASE! What's SO FEW replies doing in THIS THREAD?? Answer me!!

It was fun at times, well-decorated/costumed, but so poorly written. You can tell he has affection for these women but the dialogue is so unnatural and just descends into fanboydom. I remember a scene where they're fighting in the middle of shooting Baby Jane, and Lange shrieks (in a voice that sounds nothing like Crawford's), "and by the way, it was Gloria Swanson who deserved the Oscar for Sunset Boulevard in 1950... not you!!!!" I'm sure some elder queens on here who are Oscar obsessed got a good chuckle, but the way it was inserted was so forced and unrealistic. He write these legends the same way he would write some sassy gay teen insult war on Glee. I've realised it's his only 'voice' as a writer, no matter how different the characters are.

I love Crawford, but at some point it also just became the 'Let's get Jessica Lange another Emmy' show and completely tossed aside Sarandon's Davis. Lange is fine, and the sad scenes toward the end are affecting, IF you forget she's actually meant to be playing Crawford. Judy Davis would have been better in that role, as seen with some of her other parts (like Garland) she nails that flowery old Hollywood speaking style, and looks more like her too.

It was forgotten because the homos couldn't bring themselves to look at the traitor Sue Cun Sarandon any longer!

Well, fuck her. But has she commented since the overturn of the Roe v Wade decision?

[quote]r50 Judy Davis would have been better in that role, as seen with some of her other parts (like Garland) she nails that flowery old Hollywood speaking style, and looks more like her too.

The biggest female star he’s got… ever had… and he’s BURYING ME ALIVE!

When this thing first aired and there were of course multiple threads on it here, one of the more consistent topics throughout was that as the show progressed, the focus was less and less on the Bette Davis character with significantly more screen time given to the Joan Crawford character. The other thread consistency was the opinion that this was due to the fact that Sarandon gave an embarrassingly bad performance as Bette Davis. It was, as mentioned again in this thread, an imitation, whereas Lange's performance was more of an interpretation of Crawford. Was it spot-on "Joan Crawford" as the public knew her, a la Dunaway's portrayal? Certainly not, but Lange made the character in the TV show interesting, human, and vulnerable. All Sarandon did was walk around with a cigarette in her mouth and speak with a deep loud voice.

Judy Davis can either be brilliant or awful depending on the role.

Her Sante Kimes was one of the worst scenery chewing performances I've ever witnessed. Compare it to Mary Tyler Moore's who was understanded and menacing in its coldness. All Judy did was scream every line out.

The reason _is_ no one cared about this catty Hollywood bitchwar to begin with.

Except for the ancien regime here on DL.

So will this never be on DVD?

People still buy DVDs these days? Buying blurays, yes. But DVDs, it boggles the mind.

I bought it for streaming on Amazon prime. I’ve rewatched it once, I think.

Yes, Susan (cunt) was so embarrassing in this.

[quote] Jessica Lange was terribly miscast as Joan Crawford. She resembled her in no way, shape or form.

Worse : she projected her own temperament on Joan, playing her as vulnerable/brittle, which is ridiculous. If there was one thing Crawford was NOT, it was vulnerable. Lange seemed to have done no research at all.

R53 To be fair, DL already had their pitchforks ready for Sarandon's performance because of her Hilary Clinton thing. She was and still is persona non grata on here. I don't think we can pretend most posters on here were being objective when assessing the performances.

I am not a fan of Sarandon's politics, but I think it's disingenuous to say Lange's performance was better. She gave the exact same vampy portrayal she has given in every other Ryan Murphy show. The character descriptions may be wildly different, but the performances are largely the same.

Sarandon is great in FEUD. She’s a very good actress, of course, and well cast.

R62, 🖕

[quote]To be fair, DL already had their pitchforks ready for Sarandon's performance because of her Hilary Clinton thing.

But if you watched the show, you can't deny that the Sarandon practically disappeared as a main character after a few episodes. The show became less about the feud between Crawford and Davis and more about the feud as seen from the perspective of Joan Crawford.

R64 I agree, but I don't think her getting progressively less screentime indicates is any sort of proof that her performance is worse? Lange is always at the centre of his projects and often gets more and more screen time throughout. I think he just enjoyed writing for her and writing for that character more. Plus as a gay man who has watched Mommie Dearest a lot there is probably more of an incentive to re-tell Crawford's story and change public opinion on her, than Bette Davis', who was already well-liked.

All that lameness and you still didn't understand the point of the post you quoted, R49.

I thought they were both awful in their roles.

ENOUGH.

The entire show was fiction, even using a parody Facebook group’s “b.o. letter” from Bette to the studio as material. None of it was true. Joan never had her molars taken out either.

I do think a part of the appeal of this project was to rehab Crawford's image a bit after Mommie Dearest. Feud does make her out to be a much more complex and complicated person.

Turning the entire thing into some woke anti-patriarchy nonsense was just offensive. The two bitches hated each other not because men made them hate each other, but because Joan made a pass at her, as confirmed by her devoted assistant.

[quote] From All About Eve onward she was a toxic, unprofessional shrew who fought with everyone. It wasn't about fighting for what's right on-set, she fought because she impossible.

Unfortunately this is true. Bette was a raging alcoholic from the 1950s onward and temperamental and just nasty to people. It absolutely affected her career, if she'd been better behaved she could've had a nice career as an older woman like Katharine Hepburn had.

Also, the booze and cigs aged Bette terribly. She got really haggard-looking and looked older than she was.

I thought it was pretty good. Jessica Lange did a great job. Had me in tears as Joan toward the end. Poor Joan, to have such a vile cunt as a daughter... Just like Bette.

R57, yes, people do still buy dvds. Where the hell have you been?

Unlike Kate Hepburn, Bette had to keep working. She had a huge family to support. That's possibly where some of the resentment came from.

Sarandon was terrible because she didn't bother to do Davis' accent. That accent was Davis in the same way that Hepburn's defined her. It was a lazy performance.

True r75. Bette's entire family, as well as her various husbands, were all a bunch of leeches and Bette supported them all. And supported them VERY well. That will make a person cranky.

Bette's distinctive and highly-mimicked vocal phrasing put Sarandon in an unwinnable position. If she leaned even a little too hard into that vocal pattern, she'd likely get accussed of just being a bad drag version of Davis

Annie Potts would have been a better choice. Annie has an accent and cadence that is similar to Bette's.

R71 Franchot Tone most definitely was a factor in the escalation of their enmity. No, he's not the entire reason, but he played his part.

I always assumed that this 'feud' was largely cooked up for the consumption by the masses, until I'd read the book this series is 'inspired ' by.

Although aside from Davis and Crawford mutually disliking one another the show left most of the content of the book (and their exchange of slights) alone.

Annie Potts already had her shot at playing BABY JANE-era Bette, in a season 6 DESIGNING WOMEN episode that featured their hot-off-the-presses take on the Clarence Thomas hearings. It wasn't pretty.

[quote]R69 Joan never had her molars taken out either.

The 1978 book “Flesh & Fantasy” states she did