Manson Serial Killer, Patricia Krenwinkle Found Suitable For Parole

Fair enough, she's got to be almost dead.

Let the old woman enjoy some freedom in her final days, she's been punished plenty. Sharon isn't coming back either way.

I'm sure the ACLU (American Crime Lovers Union) helped with her case.

If Leslie Van Houten can't get out, there is no way Krenwinkel will.

R2 is a sociopath.

Go suck Trump's cocklet, R3.

I think she's tremendous.

[quote]Fair enough, she's got to be almost dead.

Well, if the Supreme Court hadn't banned the death penalty in 1972, she would already be dead.

I didn't know he molested children, but I'm not surprised. BTW, Bugliosi was nuts too.

[quote] she's got to be almost dead.

That didn't help me, bitches!!!

She was the pretty one.

Stop! I'm already dead.

If she ran your kin down on the lawn, stabbing them dozens of times, how would you feel? It's an injustice that families of the victims have to deal with the many hearings. Repeated anguish. This bitch will rot in Hell, but first let it rot in jail.

Domestic terrorists before it was a thing. Fuck her.

Murderers have a low recidivism rate. Especially female murderers. Why waste our tax dollars locking up someone who is no longer a threat

R7, John Waters was never all that into Krenwinkel. Perhaps because she is dowdy, not as cool, pretty, or personable as [he thinks] LVH is/was.

Inmate Krenwinkle is still a danger because she doesn't own up to her own actions in the crimes. Never made apologies, addresses the molested children she caring for as the people. Don't forget she volunteered to kill on both nights and laughed her ass off with Leslie as Rosemary LaBianca died. The killers covered Rosemary's vision with a pillow case that they wrapped with a lamp cord. When Rosemary heard her husband Leno being butchered in the next room she became hysterical. I guess that was humorous to both Krenwinkle and Van Houten. After painting the walls in the victim's blood, they made themselves at home, eating the food from the fridge and stealing enough to go buy milkshakes with Charlie. During the most expensive criminal trial in California history, the girls pulled all kinds of offensive crap, including making multiple death threats. Basically, showing zero empathy to the victim's families. Van Houten's attorney wasn't to his client's liking and went missing. He was mysteriously found dead. They were all given the death penalty for the crimes, but California lost the penalty and that made everyone on death row eligible for future parole. Also, other sicko killers, later on, were inspired by the Manson killings such as the guy in 1970 that brutally murdered five people in cold blood just because they were wealthy. He thought Manson was a folk hero. Some crimes are so notorious that release of the killers sets for dangerous precedent.

[quote]Murderers have a low recidivism rate. Especially female murderers. Why waste our tax dollars locking up someone who is no longer a threat

Because Abigail Folger's life mattered.

Because Leno LaBianca's life mattered.

Because Rosemary LaBianca's life mattered.

Were they on drugs during the murder?

If they're able to resurrect the people she'd murdered so they can all live out their twilight years, then YES, otherwise no.

R19 IIRC they were stoned both nights, tripping on one, but not sure which. They were usually tripping during their 'Creepy Crawlies'.

Reply 19, does that matter if it's your loved ones butchered? They claim they were on drugs, but so was the entire world in the Sixties. Bullshit excuses. Nothing can make you a murderer unless it's already in you to do such an act. Charlie just had a way of finding these animals.

My opinion is that none of them would’ve been murderers if they hadn’t met Manson. I don’t think on their own and still being hippies—or even living a different lifestyle, they would plot and murder people.

The governor always overturns it

[quote] Nothing can make you a murderer unless it's already in you to do such an act.

Wrong.

I couldn't kill anyone just on someone else's influence. Only in self defense. What the fuck is wrong with someone to do that.

Another wacky Supreme Court ruling?

Didn't she do FIFTY years??? God, what do you all think she's going to do, knock over a bingo board at the local church? Steal some dentures?

They killed a bunch of people. Many more than what is known, except by the killers. One of them admitted that the police would never know how many. Several young people were murdered in similar fashion, in the same areas. Several unsolved murders place the Manson family in the vicinity as the crimes. Bound and stabbed repeatedly. Some teenagers at Barker ranch were trying to escape or had words with the cult members and then disappeared, leaving their parents to wonder what became of them. In 2007 police went to the ranch to search for remains assisted by cadaver dogs and sonar tools. They located and dug potential graves, but because so much time elapsed that the top soil was deeper. They weren't allowed by law to continue past a certain depth, for whatever legal reasons. Debra Tate was in attendance that day and the grief on her face was evident. The victim's families have dealt with this bullshit from day one. No relief.

2008

Most people don't get it until violence hits their family. It's worse than you'd think. My brother was murdered in cold blood, too. So I get it. My Mom never got over it. Life goes on, but your loved ones don't get the joy anymore. The what ifs and the why us? My family fractured forever. So fuck this monster and her evil cohorts.

(((Hugs))) r30

And agree, hope she never gets released

Bless you. And Thanks!!

Krenwinkel is never getting out of prison. The California governor will deny her parole, just as multiple governors have Van Houten.

Both will die in prison.

I was on a trip to Big Sur with my boyfriend and 3 other friends. I lived in Laurel Canyon at the time and somewhere halfway to Big Sur, we stopped for gas. My boyfriend got out and started talking to the guy in the truck. My other friend got out and was playing with the guy's dog. I asked my boyfriend who the guy was he was talking to not sure if he told me his name. My boyfriend said he was a weed dealer around the canyon. He was seriously skinny, had really greasy hair and I could smell him from six feet away. He looked like he was about 5ft tall. It was at night. It was April of 1969 and 3 months later the murders happened. When Manson's crazy-ass wild-eyed picture, was in the paper My BF asked me if I remembered him and then reminded me he was the guy on the way to Big Sur. It freaked me out for weeks. To this day I have never been able to understand how this ugly, greasy, smelly, skinny midget was able to talk young, women, into staying with him for more than 2 minutes, much less kill people for him. he was really gross and creepy.

Fuck her. She’s already lived 50 years longer than she should have.

R34 Manson is probably a little bit less psychotic than most of our politicians.

Reply 34, I've read about Manson and Big Sur.

Charlie was talking about taking a trip up north to gather recruits… the girls cleaned up the Hostess Twinkies Continental Bakery Truck, outfitting the bed in the back for the Wizard’s important trip to Big Sur. Danny DeCarlo said that Charlie talked about being gone for about three months. Others say he talked about going north to recruit girls.” — The Family by Ed Sanders

Yep, that is probably when I saw him at the gas station. People always say the girls stayed with him because of drugs but that is a bullshit excuse. In those days, women could obtain drugs easily and men were always offering. He was already in his 30s when I was 19 so he was an old guy. I think those girls enjoyed killing people because they certainly didn't have to stay with Manson to get drugs.

The killing was their high. They were all on the same wave length.

Reply 38, did you go to the nightclubs or walk on the strip or go to Venice Beach? You might have seen him/them more times than you know. Glad you didn't unknowingly cross him? He was quick to change moods.

R15 It is not about whether a murderer is “a threat” anymore. None of them are in old age Fuck rehabilition for cold-blooded killers. It’s about basic justice and punishing them for brutally murdering someone. Those victims did not deserve to have their lives ended. So until they walk out of their graves, Krenwinkle should rot in jail. Crying shame the death penalty was placed in a moratorium.

[quote] and still being hippies—o

Besides the drugs and free love, were they really hippies though?

No, they were slippies. They presented themselves as peace loving hippies, but they were criminals.

What the Helter-Skelter? Sorry, she’s got die with the consequences.

No, I don't remember him from anywhere else. He looked like the people you see that live on the street today. He smelled so bad, it was the type of smell that made you want to vomit. I was this middle-class girl that was sort of playing at being a hippy but I never missed a daily shower. Even if I had run into him somewhere else I would not have remembered him or even looked at him twice. I remembered him only after the murders. And I remember the horrible smell. I went to Venice from time to time but didn't spend much time at nightclubs. There were always parties in the canyon and I lived with my BF and another couple. People always came to our house. We didn't walk around the strip during those days unless were were going somewhere on the strip I think we went to tower records quit a bit.

^^quite

Free Krenwinkle and Van Houten.

Enough is enough.

^^ yes. Just open ALL the prison gates, while you’re at it!

^^No, I said free Krenwinkle and Van Houten you pinhead.

Helter Skelter was a Beetles song from The White Album. Manson thought it was a sign that the end of the civilization was coming via racial chaos/fighting. He hated blacks because he was intimidated by their violence during his earlier prison incarcerations. I think he was doing his slid of the hand trick to control his followers.

R153 she is not a female murderer as in "I killed my violent husband". Statistics don't apply here.

[quote]Enough is enough.

Until they're carried out in body bags, it will never be enough.

They deserve the same mercy they showed when they violently stabbed their victims.

What did Manson smell like ? Sulphuri?

Strong body odor would be a tip off that Manson wasn't normal. Why would his girls buys into his stories when he couldn't even cover his smell. Scratching head.

I don't know what Sulphuri is or smells like. His smell was the kind of smell that a person gets when they never take a shower and his BO was extreme. His hair was never washed and it was greasy. He had two women in the truck that night and I didn't see their faces because it was dark and I never got out of the car. When my friend got back in the car after playing with his dog, she was laughing and told me she overheard one of the women telling the other one that she thought she had the clap again.

In this environment where most everyone in California is seriously fed up with crime, Newsom will not want the legacy of being the governor who sympathized with a member of the Manson family and allowed her to walk free.

Before Manson, we didn't have anything like those murders and when the details came out it shocked the hell out of everyone.

R11 That photo looks like a Janis Joplin female impersonator.

She has a very Manish face in that pic. I don't remember from most of the pics of her that she looked that Manish in other pics of her.

She’s likely to never offend again if she gets out, so I have no problem with that side of things.

What bothers me is that she did do something heinous and it affected the lives of others permanently. I know that cannot ever change, whether she’s in jail or out, but it does bother me that she profoundly changed the lives of the families of those she murdered, and I absolutely understand their side of things, and I cannot claim that I would feel the same were I in their shoes.

When someone hurts or kills someone you love, you want to see the offender rot in hell. That’s just human nature, and I’m for sure just as capable of feeling this as they feel it, too.

R60, Krenwinkel had an endocrine condition that caused her to have excessive body hair (for a woman). You can see her hairy legs in some of the perp walk pics.

When she met Manson, he reportedly made her feel beautiful -- probably for the first time in her life -- so you can kind of see how she started to get brainwashed under his spell. She was very loyal to him, years after being imprisoned even.

We prefer the catwalk. She deserves the perp walk. If anyone does.

I don't think any of them should ever get out. They were not just murders, they tortured the people that they killed.

They say the Night Stalker, Richard Ramirez had terrible body odor. I guess, evil can literally stink. Definitely a sense tip off, if not a sixth sense that's something's not right.

It was Folger's birthday that day. Sharon's baby shower was scheduled to be later that day. The family baby rocker chair was in the corner, delivered by Sharon's mom and dad. She was very pregnant. Two weeks shy of nine months.

We don't even know how badly Tate's life ended. They tied her noose style around the overhead rafter and tied the other end over Sebring's neck. She was found with neck rope burns. Her face was sliced. The killers were instructed to kill her last. She was made to watch her friends be slaughtered; she loved Sebring. She pleaded for the life of her baby. They finally stabbed Sharon to stop her screams. The killers were supposed to leave a sign. Something witchy, which meant cutting the victims up. They were going to cut the baby out of Sharon, but time didn't allow for it. They probably hung her at some point. Who doesn't have empathy for pregnant women? When talking with Charles Manson later, Krenwinkle said "but Charlie, they were so young". Then why'd you do it?

I don['t know how you can torture someone, look them in the eyes, and the horrible fear they must have had and torture them. Evil is the only word that I can think of. I am an atheist, I don't really believe in evil but Evil is the only way to describe it. They must not have an ounce of empathy or compassion. It was inhumane.

Atkins and Watkins were allowed by law to have conjugal visits with their spouses while incarcerated. Yes, inmates could marry in prison. WTF? Watkins sired a child while in lock up. That shit stopped when Doris Tate found out. Her own daughter was butchered by this guy and yet the state lets him breed in captivity. True story.

"Your daddy is a fireman? My daddy is a world famous psychopath. Mommy takes me to prison for Christmas. Daddy says he wants Santa to put money in his account. He's buying me a big pack of ramen oodles".

Krenwinkle and the rest of the Manson Family wanted to kidnap Liz Taylor and put her poked-out violet eyes in a jar.

Such people will find no sanctuary nor succor at DL.

And they laughed when they murdered them. During the trials, they all acted like it was all a big joke. I was actually angry when they didn't get the death penalty. Their crimes were so heinous, and we had to house their sorry asses for all these years. And the families had to live with the fact that they got to live some sort of life. I wasn't necessarily for the death penalty but in their case, they should have been put to death.

Since she was initially sentenced to death, she should, of course, serve her life sentence. A year after her sentencing, the death penalty was ruled unconstitutional in California and her sentence was commuted to life. Why are she and the others even eligible for parole? I guess that was even (wrongfully) deemed unconstitutional along with the death penalty. Anyway, since the death penalty has since been reinstated in California, wonder why inmates who were sentenced to death aren't put back on death row?

They are protected by the first unconstitutional ruling. Baffling. Imperfect system with giant cracks in it.

"Helter Skelter was a Beetles song from The White Album. Manson thought it was a sign that the end of the civilization was coming via racial chaos/fighting. He hated blacks because he was intimidated by their violence during his earlier prison incarcerations. I think he was doing his slid of the hand trick to control his followers. "

There's always someone who wants to pipe in with a fact or two that is very common knowledge that even the Sentinelese know. We don't need you to point this out. And...you have a lot of nerve spelling Beatles wrong.

"I don't really believe in evil..." And as for you, r67: How many other things do you deny that have smacked you in the face? What a pretentious and moronic statement.

None of the Manson killers will ever get out on parole. Ever. They will all die in prison. The murders are stamped into the minds of every American and certainly all Californians as being horrifyingly vicious and terrifying.

(R6) Your obviously a member and Jewish.

How did this scum avoid being killed in the hoosegow? Prison gang bangers don't like baby killers.

She looks like the real life Blair Witch

Why bother defending these people? They've lived 50 years longer than the people they killed that should be enough. Why should they be free? They showed no mercy to their victims

If the murderers were truly remorseful, they wouldn't put the victims' families through the agony of parole hearings.

Good. She should have been released some time ago.

Krenwinkle butchered Abigail Folger. I think she also helped Tex Watson slice up Voytek Frykowski. She helped Leslie Van Houten stab Rosemary LaBianca dozens of times. She helped stab Leno LaBianca to death; she carved the word "War" in his stomach, stuck a carving knife in his stomach and a fork in his throat. She wrote "Healter Skelter" on the wall in his blood, along with "Death to Pigs" and "Rise." She's not going to get out.

[quote] Good. She should have been released some time ago.

Eat shit and die, you fucktard.

Look, were any of you [italic]there??!![/italic]

Judge not.

I was there R83! and I say fry the pig and save money wasted on the feeding, clothing, housing and medical care of this murderous bitch

You can zoom in on Pat's hairy legs here (due to her endocrine condition).

This is a non-story.

Newsom is going to reverse the recommendation and deny her parole, just like he did for Leslie Van Houten.

He's not going to go down in history as the governor who paroled a member of the Manson family. Even a complete political idiot can see there's no upside to those optics.

All of the people saying 'Its fine to let her go, she can't do any harm now' or words to that effect. Have you thought this out? What if she gathers a bunch of Manson groupies around her? What if she tells them everything he said and did? What if she encourages them to go out and do the same?

This woman could do a lot of harm if she's let out. Not necessarily the example above but simply because she's a psychopath.

Having said all that, I'm not American so don't really get to have an opinion on this. Your country, your rules.

It's strange nobody here really believes in any sort of redemption.

We believe in redemption, R88. But these sick fucks who have never shown an ounce of remorse do not deserve it.

Every single member of the USA Congress is also a psychopath, assenting to mass murder globally plus trillions of theft.

Yet DL sisters are worried about Patricia K?

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

That doesn't make hairy Pat any less a serial killer. Most policitians belong in a penitentiary, too. Stick Bozos and Musky into the fray. During yard time have Amazon drones drop chef's knives. Then bake em into fertilizer so that they do some good.

[quote] Look, were any of you there??!!

Oh shut up, you retarded troll. You're a pathetic ass.

Meanwhile Clem, who murdered at the very least was an accomplice in the murder Shorty Shea (he blamed Tex Watson) was released from prison in 1985. Shea wasn’t a celebrity. Clem admitted beating Shea and burying his body? Who knows who else Clem helped murder. His judge said he was too dumb & hopped up on drugs to decide anything on his own, so he didn’t get a death sentence like the girls did, even though the girls were all tripping and doing speed.

Mighty big of him to finally take police to Shorty’s body many years after he buried him.

[quote] None of the Manson killers will ever get out on parole. Ever

Clem did. Apparently they believed his version of “I didn’t do it/Wait, Charlie made me do it/Wait, Tex did it. Charlie made me help.”

R94, Clem was released because he was 17 at time of murder and there was confusion as if shorty was beheaded As they were murdering him. Clem made a deal with the police and the DA and he led them to Shorty’z remains

Didn't Clem have law enforcement / legal connections?

Anyhow, the last I heard of him, he was playing in a band and had changed his name.

👆🏼 Clem was a troubled teen who took refuge at Spahn Ranch , which was close to his home in San Fernando Valley. Shorty Shea took him under his wing and tried to mentor him . As soon as Manson came along , Clem found a new mentor . Shorty was a good man who actually tried to warn the young people to leave Manson . Manson loathed him

Clem holding hands with Bruce Davis.

R85, the bikers and other men who hung out with Charlie and the girls complained that Pat was “ too hairy” for their taste . Medicine made her feel beautiful and told her he loved all the hair on her body

R98, Manson felt that straight and gay people had sexual hang ups , and would force his group to become pan sexual.

R100, I always had the impression that Manson preferred the lads over the lasses.

He though white men were superior to all others.

R99, in that respect, I feel a little sorry for Pat... Manson hand-picked her (and others like her) because he sensed loneliness, low self esteem, and vulnerability.

He also sensed apathy and he ran with it.

Clem got out of prison because he was a total dopehead who appeared in court to be retarded. I guess that's why he was cut some slack.

So if Patricia pretends to be retarded will she get paroled?

R106, ha!

I do think that if Pat had not met Manson, she probably would've just become an anonymous frau somewhere.

R103, see R81.

OP she suitable for a leg waxing that's about it.

I saw a program last night on Dianne Lake, whom I had never heard of before. She was there in the Family during everything, but apparently didn't take part in any of the really bad stuff (I guess she was too young). She talked frankly about having sex with Manson, including him forcibly sodomizing her. There was a picture of her at the trial smiling really big that made her look like one of the crazy Manson women, but I don't know what the context of it was. She apparently served no time, except nine months in a mental hospital. She made "Patty" Krenwinkle sound like a loving big sister.

Dianne Lake was one of the few innocents in the Manson family. She was only 14 years old. Her parents, signed for her emancipation because they had dropped out of society and joined a commune called The Pig Farm. Dianne wasn't allowed to stay there. She had no one looking out for her. A married couple took her into their home, both molesting Dianne before introducing her to Charlie and his cult followers. She didn't know better. She went through hell and back.

R88 I believe that she could seek spiritual redemption and that she may be a harmless person now. But that doesn’t mean she doesn’t have to face the consequences of her actions. She was sentenced to death and already caught one break. I’m more concerned with what the victims’ families want.

They just want it all to end. Life sentence should mean life sentence for extremely heinous crimes, with this being the worst.

[quote]Clem got out of prison because he was a total dopehead who appeared in court to be retarded. I guess that's why he was cut some slack.

Didn't Clem and Steve Collins hook up with Charlie and other guys in the Family?

I was impressed with PK when she was interviewed for 20/20 back in 1994. She lost me, though, when she said at a parole hearing that the person she had hurt the most was herself.

Narcissistic sociopaths always give themselves away if you let them continue to talk

And they LOVE to talk...

I saw that 20/20 interview - PK and LVH participated. Both seemed genuinely remorseful, PK in particular. She even mentioned getting letters from young people who seemed to think what they did was cool. She was adamant that NOTHING they did was cool, and she was clearly being sincere. Both have renounced the Manson family and apparently are model prisoners.

That said, neither she nor LVH deserve to be free, even if they're sorry and no longer a threat to society. They should have been put to death for what they did, and the victims' families don't deserve to relive their pain at every parole hearing.

If they admit what they did was wrong, why do they ask for release out of the other side of their mouth?

They want what they denied their victims. Bitches need to keep stamping out license plates. They are lucky they weren't made into powder when they got the DP sentencing.

But the California parole board, of which only 1-3 of its 17 commissioners participate in parole hearings and decisions, keeps trying to let the worst among us out onto the street. They have now recommended parole for Patricia Krenwinkel, one of the most bloodthirsty members of Charles Manson’s “family” who participated in the notorious 1969 murders in Los Angeles of actress Sharon Tate, her unborn baby, and her four friends. Krenwinkel was also an active and brutal participant in the murders of Leno and Rosemary LaBianca the next night.

I hope the governor blocks this stain from release. I never thought a parole board would ever, ever recommend her release. She is even worse than Leslie which is hard to imagine.

Has Tex Watson finally given up on seeking parole?

If they’re recommended for parole then let them out. They’re not gonna hurt anyone else, remember the whole point of prison is rehabilitation, would be a waste of taxpayer money to keep them inside. They’ve done their time, they’ve shown remorse, let them have some fresh air and self determination.

[quote] let them have some fresh air and self determination

Yes, just like they did for their victims.

You missed the memo r123. In this country, if you advocate for rehabilitation over punishment, you are seen as violating the victims again — even when you try to ALSO include justice for victims as woven into the whole solution.

Obviously I’m jaded. But I volunteer in a major jail, and I see it first hand. It is a sick system, and don’t tell me I don’t believe in accountability for their crimes because I do. But we are making the problem much much worse by not seeing redemption as a possibility. And media/corps want you to see the system “as-is” as necessary because they make **billions** off of wounded people. A huge chunk of them are OUR foster children!!! After a life of sexual, physical, and emotional abuse in foster care, this is the reward they get?!?!? And if I don’t advocate for them, who the fuck will?

I have nothing but compassion for the Manson victims’ families (help grammar police on my apostrophe!), I think they were abused by the system through these cases and that is wrong. I’m not going to sit here and ask for pity for Patty. But I will tell you, the ripple effect of this unjust system extends well outside the prison walls.

Millions and millions (10+ mil) Americans go through our jails each year — how many family members are affected, how many single moms, how many fatherless kids? It’s a fucking travesty that will only continue to grow exponentially. If we don’t model compassion and hope for change **then we are no better than the “bad guys”**. We are supposed to be kinder, more gentle, more encouraging….right? If we don’t want people locked up, then we need to focus on evidence-based programming that is already working in other countries.

Patty is obviously a very very broken person. It is above my pay grade to know if she deserves freedom, and I don’t envy the people who have to make these decisions. I feel that maybe the wisest course is that though there are people like me advocating for more mercy and hope for change, this case is extremely notorious. I think enormous weight should always be given to the families. Perhaps because this family has fought so valiantly you keep them locked up, perhaps we owe them what they’ve worked so hard for, and that is a way of demonstrating mercy too? Maybe in such a notorious case we should give the families “first right of refusal”. Their choice should have the biggest weight, right up there with what is best for society. Sorry, crazy long post because this topic is personal for me.

[quote]r123 remember the whole point of prison is rehabilitation

Wut ? ?

If that were the case prisoners would be in therapy every day instead of toiling in potato fields, or making license plates for the state.

]R123 is quite simply a bleeding heart moron. He or she probably wants Sirhan Sirhan out, too.

R125 I think I remember you posting on a separate prison related thread and I really appreciate your informed take on it.

One thing I’d add to what you’ve said is that taking away prisoners’ votes really shows you how they’re treated, and how their voices are intentionally crushed. It’s so sad. I also believe that Justice must be served, but I don’t think it is in an enormous amount of these cases when people are jailed (for drug misdemeanors etc.). It is as you’ve said another opportunity for corporate institutions to use peoples lives to make money. It’s disgusting.

R126 a lot of prisoners probably do need therapy. Wouldn’t you prefer when an inmate leaves prison that they’re ready to be integrated into society rather than just used as a workhorse while they’re inside? Also a more proactive prison system where people are less likely to reoffend would cost the taxpayer less. And also keeping people that don’t need to be in prison out of prison.

The US prison system as it exists is broken, and it’s costing you a fortune.

Rehabilitation my ass. They were sentenced to die because their crimes were extremely heinous. Serial killers Krenwinkle, Watson, Van Houton are psychopaths choosing to kill repeatedly, in gruesome fashion. They got their sick rocks off on killing innocent people. The victims and their family members aren't free. Not until the killers die of natural cause(several of the victim's kin have died prematurely, probably from anguish). Save your empathy for the harmed.

If these monsters get out, then you may as well set all serial killers loose. Open the flood gates. Letting inmate Krenwinkle free would set a new legal precedent, which would allow other serious offenders an opportunity for release. Governor Newson will likely block this parole, as he should. We'll see.

R130 I can have empathy for both. Nobody should spend their life in prison if they’re deemed eligible for re-entry into society. Without giving people the opportunity for parole you’re totally amoral. Human rights extend to everyone, you can’t pick and choose. Also please don’t act like the death penalty is appropriate in any case.

It is appropriate. Throw the fucking switch.

But r130, I posted about the jail and my cynicism after seeing it (at r125)— you can’t take one post and paint a broad brush across all of it. The mission of prisons/jails cannot be two opposing values. It can’t be “punish” but then offer partial correction. The mission cannot be “correction” but then reserve punishment for a select few. How would we possibly decide who deserves rehabilitation and who doesn’t? It is much more merciful and just to say “the mission is rehabilitation because we believe the vast majority are good people who just didn’t have a normal life or struggle with addiction/mental illness, and they need a little extra support to make it” and to not punish all men and women who break laws when the truth is they do NOT want to live a life of crime. At its most base level — no one wants to be locked in a cage, they don’t want that life. I would rather build the system to support real, tangible hope, than to offer none.

And yet we are back to Patty. I actually do believe she is rehabilitated. But should she be free? How much weight goes to the family and their wishes? I do not know for certain what the “right” answer is, but for now, I would want to respect the needs of every family member who lived through the tragedy in real-time (maybe make it the government’s sole discretion once all the OG family pass on?).

Hi r128!!! Yes, it’s me again. Go on, be your beautiful bleeding heart liberal self here — I’m right alongside you💗. Yes, the system is broke as shit. So many good people are in there. There must be bad people too, but I have yet to meet anyone that we would call evil or bad. They are all simply addicts, mentally ill, and carry intergenerational trauma. Many have no father or fathers who physically abused them, many are from public housing, mothers were prostitute/heroin addicts who saw tricks in front of the men and women I work with when they were small children. Rampant sexual abuse. How would I turn out if I grew up like that? Hell, I just can’t judge them. Until you hear their stories, you just can’t judge them.

Patty is no different. I think she’s on the spectrum. She had severe social anxiety/low self-esteem. She was rejected and abandoned until Charlie, so was indeed a walking target for him too. If she had never met him, I highly doubt she would have ever hurt another person. But due to the trauma of the victim’s family, the shit show of the reversed death sentence, the notoriety of the Family etc., she should likely stay inside. I am sad for Patty because she really has done hard time, but I am not smart enough to argue for her freedom. I am also unwilling to not try to imagine what the family would feel if she were released — the pain from that thought is more than I can bear. It feels wisest to make Patty remain behind bars for their sake.

The flip side of all of this is that one can make a good life even while incarcerated, there ARE ways to have purpose. I would rather see Patty not ask for parole, put her head down and just keep going. But if you saw the conditions, you would understand. You have to say yes to the suffering — and most human beings are not strong enough. I know I would not be, I would beg for parole too, sad to say but true.

R132 she did receive the death penalty for good cause. Unfortunately, we don’t reverse things multiple times in our justice system.

Free Betty Broderick!

Tell that to surviving victim's families, like mine. Cases vary, but sometimes capital punishment is fitting. And sometimes, a life sentence should mean just that, life.

Sorry, I'm biased. That is due to what my family has endured. I don't feel sorry for the killers. They made their choices and in doing so they've taken away their victim's choices.

One wonders why the frauen come down so hard on these particular killers but have no problem with other killers serving their sentences and getting released everyday.

A curse be on 137. Fatter.

R137 because Sharon was “with child”. They identify with her vulnerability.

I don’t want to live in a world where one of the Manson murderers can walk free. Full stop. Any serial killers really. Sociopaths at that level can fake anything to get their way.

R139 these same frauen would pay money to set Betty Broderick free!

Weird thought. Don't think so.

[quote] Free Betty Broderick!

I think Betty Broderick should be free, too. I believe her story; unable to take any more shit from Dan and Linda she went to Dan's house with a gun ("to make them listen to me") at dawn, used a key to get in (they never would have let her in voluntarily), entered their bedroom and on hearing Linda shriek "Call the police!" she fired in a blind panic. I think that is really what happened. She would pose no threat to society; her son Rhett said the only two people who would have been in danger if she were let out are dead. If she got out she'd probably get a job and spend time with her kids and grandkids. But she never recovered from the shock of her husband dumping her for a younger women. Her mind was shattered and still is to this day. To this day she's never expressed sincere remorse and still yammers on about how tormented she was by Dan and Linda. Which is why she probably will die in prison. It's a shame.

[quote]R143 If Betty got out she'd probably get a job and spend time with her kids and grandkids.

Well, a couple of her kids have never forgiven her, so…

^ that’s actually a great example of punishment. We’ve been taught that they have to stay locked up to punish them (you almost never hear about how the punishment never, ever ever stops). What we don’t understand is that their punishment continues forever. Even those who changed, who didn’t commit a violent offense, who worked hard to build a new life; we have installed barriers that prevent them from creating that new life that they need to have to avoid reoffending.

If you learn more about incarceration, you will see that being in a facility is truly a huge punishment, even if you never added any other punitive layers. Taking away *everything* else, from having a single writing utensil, paper, the ability to listen to music, pick our food, express ourselves through fashion, deciding when we want to go to bed and for how long we will sleep, deciding what to eat for breakfast….these are just a few. In family relations, there is often massive anger, trauma, isolation, helplessness, inability to get a job , find housing, family not speaking to you, etc. Taking a shit without 25 people watching you, getting a shower just once in 30 days because you’re in seg. They are punished in hundreds of ways we can’t begin to imagine. It is much worse than you can imagine.

Betty is no longer a danger, but shouldn’t taking responsibility for your crime be a dealbreaker?

I don't know about Betty Broderick, but the Manson clan need to stay right where they are. They've been shown leniency with their lives being spared. That is more mercy than they've ever shown and it's more than they deserve.

[quote] Well, a couple of her kids have never forgiven her, so…

Two of her kids said she should be freed on parole. Two of them said she wasn't ready for release. But she's in contact with all of them. Her daughter KIm testified against her in court and said she shouldn't be paroled but they still have a relationship.

They should put Patricia Krenwinkel in the same cell as Betty Broderick

If she was released from jail, is there someone to take care of her or does she just go on welfare and public housing?

R149, I do not know the answer, but I do believe having proof of a stable living situation is a factor the parole board can consider (though I don’t believe it can be the sole mitigating reason to refuse parole). Maybe someone else here knows more.

Some one should come in and stab her once in awhile, so she knows how it feels.

Are they looking for volunteers R 151?

Yes. Volunteers will need access to California Institution for Women east of Los Angeles. And this is where being female or trans female comes in handy. Once inside you'll have to make someone your bitch. Your bitch can then make tooth brush shanks. If caught, blame can be deflected onto your bitch. That's Manson 101.

Or you could just comp an inmates commissary. Find some butch who really likes ramen noodles and Lil Debbie's Honey Buns.

Don't do that to Betty, the poor woman has been through enough.

[quote]Murderers have a low recidivism rate.

God, you’re a moron.

They all need to sue in prison. They took people’s lives away. They don’t deserve lives outside of prison. You can’t go around murdering people.

Release them next door to the bleeding hearts. Then the bleeding hearts will literally be bleeding. Fucking losers.

Use leather thongs and lamp cords to tie these psychos to the train tracks. Choo Choo, chugga chugga chugga. Let the buzzards and coyotes clean up.

If she’d killed some little housewife in Des Moines, maybe she’d be out by now. But she was after bigger fish, to make a statement.

Well, she made her statement. And her bed.

R159 I do think the notoriety of the crimes will keep the Manson girls in jail. I wonder if the crimes happen today, would the girls have Ben viewed through the lens of cult victims and would that affect their sentences?

Only Baby Boomer fraus care about this shit.

[quote] Only Baby Boomer fraus care about this shit.

You must be retarded. Many people are totally against the release of the Manson killer.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

I've seen those photos. I don't think that's Sharon Tate. Tate had a very delicate face. This woman looks "hard." And older than 21.

Many believe it was a drug hit....they hadn't paid their bills.

They had been doing drugs and sex with the Manson hippies for a while.

Those pics are definitely Sharon Tate. They were casual, taken no doubt by an amateur, horny toad. She was probably caught off guard as she was under contract with Filmways, photos would have needed approval from her producer, Martin Ransohoff. Taken in bright sunshine.

One thing I'll say about Krenwinkel is that of the four killers, at least she was the only one to never write a tell-all book making excuses for her involvement.

Watson sired one kid, r68? Try FOUR. Absolutely disgusting that he was allowed to breed.

[quote] Those pics are definitely Sharon Tate.

I've never seen any other pictures of her where she looked THAT frowsy. Her hair is a mess. And her face doesn't have the beauty normally associated with Sharon Tate. The woman in those photos looks cheap (her bathing suit looks like she got it at a thrift store) and tawdry. She looks like a cheap hooker. That was definitely not Sharon Tate's style.

R166, who, folger, Voytek and Sebring ? Because Sharon was away in London from mid March to late July . I still believe the fact Terry Melcher lived there and rejected Manson was Manson’s key hatred towards that house

Manson ordered the killings because he was rejected my Melcher. Also, Manson knew the layouts of both Cielo drive and the Waverly drive properties, which made it much easier for the killers to navigate, catch the victims off guard. Fucking psychos!

I think what they all did was very wrong.

Reply 170, you are a fugly asshole. You wish you were half as attactive a human being. Go eat your MdDs, dog fart.

I don’t think that tacky blonde is Sharon Tate, either.

Pox be upon you both.

Fatter.

[quote] Reply 170, you are a fugly asshole. You wish you were half as attactive a human being. Go eat your MdDs, dog fart.

My, aren't your skid-marked panties in a twist. Go suck an egg, retard.

I stand by the dog fart comment.

Sharon in elementary in Pasadena, Texas.

It will never happen. Waste of time because no Manson family member from those two nights of slaughter will ever be given parole. It would be political suicide.

R181 Steve Grogan was. How was that fair?

More to the point R123 is prison keeps these people off of our streets

R182- He didn't participate in the TL murders. Not one of them from those two nights have ever been granted parole.

R184 He still murdered a man. Just not a pretty Hollywood starlet.

R185- He murdered a man on Manson's orders, yes. But the TL killers slaughtered people in their homes who did not even know them. Two nights of brutal, bloody slaughter. ST was a celebrity, but she was also a young mother-to-be who was 8 months pregnant and begged for the life of her unborn child. They all deserve to die in prison. They were given more of a life than they deserved.

R186 Grogan was dispatched along with Atkins and Linda Kasabian to murder an actor on the same night as the LaBiancas. If they hadn't gotten the wrong address, they too would have slaughtered that night

Manson threw them under the bus. And now the politicians of California use them. They are murderers, but now they're political prisoners.

And Grogan is still a stone cold murderer. No worse than the ones still in prison.

R188- They are degenerate psychopathic killers who should have died in the electric chair.

So since one murderer is out of prison they all should be? No.

R187 didn't Kasabian claim to have purposely knocked on the wrong door to prevent the murder?

R192- Yes, she did. Those people never knew how close to dying a brutal death they were.

[quote] I stand by the dog fart comment.

I stand by the confirmation that you're a retard.

“I Have No Mercy On You”

This is an excellent website on the Manson Family.

What's the point of letting people like this out? Can you imagine having to be a health care worker who would have to attend to this vile creature? It's also sexist. A guy who did the same thing would not be considered for parole.

R196- Very good point. At this point they would only be a burden on the healthcare system whereas the prison is already equipped to deal with aging prisoners. Idk if they have family left who would assume responsibility for their long term care.

I don’t think killers like these should ever get out of prison. However, we have an incarceration fetish. Other countries do not put people in prison for as long, or as much, as we do. Our recidivism rate is Atrocious. We allow prisoners to get raped, beaten, and killed. Most prisons don’t have AC. We created more hardened criminals in prison where they must seek out gangs to get protection. I am not soft on crime, but when you look at how other countries handle crime, even murder, and their recidivism rates, we are doing something wrong. I think we have such a high prison population due to blatant racism. Ex: war on drugs.

R198- Our prison system is disgraceful. Having your freedom taken away is suppose to be punishment enough, and it is in my opinion. Having to endure violence of any kind from other prisoners and prison staff is a crime against humanity. Don't even get me started on the insane, abusive decision to make prisons private/ profitable. Now the poor are targeted for petty, non violent crimes and incarcerated only because they can not afford bail or a decent attorney. It is shameful and third world level.

R198 a lot of countries don't have the type of criminals that the U.S. has and in the same numbers. The U.S. has some very fucked up people.

Also, weren't all these depraved Manson groupies white? They didn't just murder. They tortured.

In addition, many Americans don't have AC so I'm not going to cry for prisoners who don't have it. Cry for the poor elderly who don't have it and maybe don't even have a cooling center to go to for a few hours a day.

R182, Mary Brunner (the first original Manson girl) is also free, despite being of the Gary Hinman night of murder. She did some time in the seventies, but she has been free since.

*being a part of^

I would sign it but I don’t want my name out there saying I signed it.

R199 It is. I cannot believe we as a society allow the deplorable conditions in our prisons. We also have to realize many people are innocent in prisons and jails. I have heard horror stories from jails and prisons from across the country. Allowing abuse from other prisoners and staff is absolutely a crime against humanity. We all know how terrible the representation is almost everybody and we seem to be ok with that. What does that do to the lives of those of us who aren’t rich and can’t pay for adequate counsel? Bail reform (and there were issues with it)was instituted yet the media will only focus on the ones who got out and committed more crimes not the 99% who don’t.

If someone I loved was murdered OF COURSE I’d want the death penalty or them to never get released but there is a reason the victim’s families don’t get to decide. A lifetime in prison is a horrific punishment yet that isn’t enough for some.

R204, so you think Patricia Krenwinkle deserves parole.

This has been mentioned before but Sharon Tate and notorious serial killer Dean Corll went to South Shaver Elementary in Pasadena, TX at the same time and someone on FB said once there is a picture of them together at school. I think it was during a Christmas concert or something. I never saw the picture and lost the FB page.

Grogan got off because of his extremely low IQ. Just like 194, the McD's gobbling, dog fart.

: Vincent Bugliosi believed that they committed many other crimes and he knew them better than anyone else. Many young people disappeared after meeting up with them never to be found. There are many unsolved murders connected to the Manson family.

Do the crime, do the time. Quit your bitching and stamp out more license plates, mutha fuckers.

R207- I believe that he was diagnosed as mentally retarded ( that is the term they used then). He was childlike and very guidable, easily lead.

Sharon Tate never saw her son. She was shown no mercy. None of the victims were given an ounce of mercy. Blood thirsty Sadie:

She said, ‘Please let me have my baby,’” Miss Atkins went on “Then Tex came in and he said, ‘Kill her,’ and i killed her. I just stabbed her and she fell and I stabbed her again. Tate begged for her child's life, pleading that the group abduct Tate and let her give birth before murdering her. Atkins testified that she replied to Tate, "Look, bitch, I have no mercy for you. You're going to die and you'd better get used to it." Atkins and Watson then stabbed her to death. Atkins mopped up some of Tate's blood with a towel and used it to write "PIG" on the front door.

Yes, prison seems like an awful place.to be Even more money should be diverted from social services and pumped into making prisons more homey and less racist. WTF?

R212- Prisoners should not be raped, assaulted, robbed, murdered, or be forced to become a gang member to survive in prison. The punishment for commiting a crime is to take away your freedom. That is punishment enough. No one should have fight to survive like gladiators. Prisons also should never be making a profit from incarcerating human beings.

Let the rat bastards take each other out. Yes, they should be raped, assaulted, robbed of their ramen noodles. Murdered and forced to shave their eyebrows to become gang bangers. Good riddance.

R213, you can't be an effective prisoner advocate if you can't show empathy for their victims and surviving family and friends.

If Krenwinkel and Van Houten were truly contrite, they'd simply stop showing up for parole meetings or ask not to be recommended anymore.

Let's be crystal clear, I'm only a victim's rights advocate. Empathy for those who truly deserve it.

For someone who "never really killed anybody" Susan Atkins sure liked to brag about how she killed Sharon Tate. Why did she do that if she didn't actually kill anyone? Just to show off? That's a load of bullshit.

Virginia Graham testimony.

"Did Miss Atkins say anything about blood at that point?"

"Yes, she did."

"What did she say?"

"She said that she had blood in her hand and she looked at her hand and she took her hand and she put it up to her mouth and she said, 'To taste death and yet give life, wow, what a trick.' "

"Did Miss Atkins ask you if you had ever had that type of experience with blood?"

"Yes, she did. She asked me in was interested in blood, and I said that I had seen it, and she said that it was really beautiful; that it was warm and sticky."

"Did she say anything about the eyes of the people there at the Tate residence?"

"Yes, she did. She told me that she wanted to take their eyes out and squash them against the wall, and cut their fingers off, but that she didn't have time."

"Did Miss Atkins tell you anything about who was the last to die at the Tate residence?"

"Yes, she did."

"What did she say?"

"She told me Sharon was the last to die."

R195, look at fake Sadie’s eyes . She is truly evil

R210, Clem Was stupid as a fox . And his crime was particularly despicable. Shorty Shay was his mentor and friend . He took Clem under his wing . Clem tortured and stabbed Shorty to death . The family back then , told a scenario where they were jerking Shorty off and when he came was when they cut his throat. They were so diabolical. Shorty actually warned the girls to get away from Manson . I bet they wished they listened now

Anyone believe Bobby B is remorseful? I’ve perused his website writings , and he seems aware and philosophical

[quote] Anyone believe Bobby B is remorseful?

He's not remorseful. He just wants to get out of prison. After he was convicted he was quoted as saying, to the public at large I guess, "You just better hope I never get out."

She's a spree killer, but she's not a serial killer.

R222- BB is a pathological liar. He doesn't give a damn about anyone and remorse is something he isn't capable of. He has lame excuses for everything he did. He slowly tortured his friend who had given him a place to stay when he had nowhere to go. For three agonizing days while he was bleeding and in pain they tortured that poor, gentle hippie. Bobby is a cold blooded psychopath.

R50 I can't believe anyone doesn't know it is spelled 'Beatles'.

Tr225, he certainly has an ego the size of Jupiter. He’s very talented and good looking. He could have been a rock star or artist . But Gary was also talented and so generous and kind . He gave music lessons for free to Bobby and Manson . I didn’t know this until recently. Bobby at Gary’s house, went to the men’s room and gave the gun to Susan Atkins to hold over Gary. Gary wrestled the gun from her and then has the gun on all three. Gary starts to cry and says “I’m a Buddhist, I’m a pacifist I can’t kill anybody“. He showed them mercy and they continued to torture him and mock his crying .

R227- His death was absolutely heartbreaking and cruel. Heartless and so cold blooded. He was a harmless, kind man. Anyone who could be so merciless doesn't need to be walking among the rest of society. He is one of the most narcissistic men i have ever seen. I do not find him attractive. He looks like an oily little con artist to me.

I agree ☝🏼

Bobby calls Manson a malignant narcissist like Trump . Perhaps he’s one too?

R230, would that make MAGAs an extended Manson family? That sounds appropriate actually.

R231- They would have fit right in because they seemed to have no problem believing everything any two-bit conman told them to believe.

Oh MAGA is definitely in the same vein as the Manson cult. And you better believe they’d kill for it. We learned nothing from cosmopolitan Germany turning to Nazism.

It is still so mind numbingly impossible to understand how this has happened, how anyone could look up to that complete piece of shit and joke of a man. Sigh.

Sharon’s sister said they were all sociopaths who found a kindred spirit in Manson and how he made them more hard core

What r233 said

Did she ever mention who killed Tate that evening? Both Atkins and Watson claimed it was Watson who actually killed her and that Atkins had just been bragging in prison. Krenwinkle seems a more trustworthy witness than those other two.

Tex held Sharon down and both he and Atkins took turns stabbing her .

Blood thirsty Sadie actually tasted Sharon Tate's blood after killing her. They were animals.

I saw a homicide detective talking about parole for killers. He said, even if they are not longer a threat or if they were forced to kill, etc. They shouldn't be released. The murder victims are dead and not longer suffering, but the family and friends are the real victims and they are condemned for life. Parole only revictimaze them.

R240- I agree and I would feel exactly the same if a loved one was slaughtered like that. These repeated parole hearings must be extremely difficult for the families as well.

[quote] Tex held Sharon down and both he and Atkins took turns stabbing her .

Atkins held Tate down, and Watson later revealed that he did all of the stabbing. I don't see why he would lie about that years later -- it didn't help his case and he was actively trying to get out of prison.

Tex delivered most of the fatal blows that night, so it makes sense he probably finished Sharon off. Susan had a big mouth and was a braggart, but she might’ve gotten in a few stabs. Tex was just absolutely horrible. Same thing the next night with the LaBiancas. He finished off Leno, then came in the bedroom where Rosemary was swinging a lamp with a pillow case over her head because Pat and Leslie couldn’t get her under control. Tex moved in and stabbed her, taking her down enough for Pat and Leslie to finish the job.

R240 Other countries have the exact same issues yet they successfully release even murderers and have a low recidivism rate. We’re just used to being blood thirsty and cruel. Again, I would NOT release murderers or any violent criminal.

At the center of every cult they must have someone they can generate a cult of personality around. MAGA is 100% a deadly, dangerous cult. Probably one of the most dangerous of all time. Ever wonder why so many people voted for Obama and TRUMP? Easy answer- both generated a cult of personality. Only Democrats aren’t nearly as prone to cult behavior and as soon as Obama “disappointed” them they bolted.

[quote] I don't see why he would lie about that years later -- it didn't help his case and he was actively trying to get out of prison.

He did it to impress the parole board with his honesty. Of course Susan Atkins stabbed Tate and Gary Hinman. She was a sociopath. I see interviews of her after she'd been in prison for years was was tryi8ng to get out; she'd talk in a babyish, little girl voice to make herself seem sweet and harmless. She was one of the worst of the Manson killers.

R243, Sharon’s mother said she knows supernaturally that Susan was the last face she saw . So, even if Tex delivered most of the brutal blows, Susan, Leslie and hairy Pat were equally complicit in evil . And Tex is the most manipulative and more evil than Manson

R246, you rock!! And Susan was more than a sociopath.

People find the idea of murdering hippie girls more titillating than a murdering man. That’s why Tex never got that much attention from the media, and most people think the girls did all the killings.

Tex got a huge amount of attention back in the day

These murders were as big a deal as 9/11. No joke.

They reveled in their notoriety , and received significant, continuous money on their book and hundreds of letters a month.

R251- Their trial was a joke to them. Singing, carving an X on their forehead, shaving their hair off, laughing, joking, interrupting testimony, sneering. No respect for the victims or their families. Literally garbage people.

Now they are paying for that

R252, they took acid before court and tripped during trial for their lives

It's still chilling to see photos and videos of Atkins, Krenwinkle, and Van Houten hand in hand, skipping along, smiling and singing while on trial for some of the heinous murders ever committed. No one who b behaves like that could ever be rehabilitated.

R253- That was a big mistake because no one can ever forget the disrespectful display they put on in court.

Also insane, how much the victim's families have endured with the viciousness killings, the multiple false stories told by the press, the trial circus and endless parole hearings. Unscrupulous people profiting from the murders to this day. Ceaseless injustices. Makes one lose faith in humanity. Story has it all, but in a bad way.

There are some crazies who think Charlie Manson actually had talent. If he had Terry Melcher would have gotten him a record deal. But he didn't. It must also gall the relatives of the victims to hear tales about how Charles Manson and his minions hobnobbed with A-list celebrities and got invited to all the best parties. Manson and his crew WERE involved with Dennis Wilson (he was an idiot) and Terry Melcher (to some degree but not to the degree Wilson was) but no way were they hanging out with all the famous rock stars of the era, no matter what some brain fried rock stars (like Neil Young say): "yeah, me and Charlie would sit around playing the guitar while the girls cleaned the house...). There's a certain perverse glamor to being associated with the Manson clan, which is why so many celebrities said they were supposed to be at the house the night of the murders. But there was no party at the house and heavily pregnant Sharon Tate was in no mood for visitors. She was sick and tired of her house guests Abigail Folger and Voytek Frykowski but was too polite to ask them to leave. She probably didn't even want Jay Sebring around. So the tales of all the famous people who missed death by a hair's breadth by not showing up that night is a lot of crap.

It was also cruel of Terry Melcher and Candice Bergen not to warn the Polanskis about Manson. Melcher and Bergen moved out of fear for their own lives, and yet, they did not mention that fact to the sub leasees. Some people have no shame. Also, the property owner, Altobelli, after the murders, sued Sharon's estate for property devaluation. Paul Tate said the one thing that literally brought him to his knees was when he was made to clean his daughter's(and grandchild's) blood from the carpet.

[quote]R259 Melcher and Bergen moved out of fear for their own lives

I think they moved out because they broke up.

Sharon’s mother has a complete breakdown and became very withdrawn and despondent. Steven Parent’s father hair turned white as a sheet in a few weeks , his 4 siblings slept with their parents because they were so freaked out.

Sharon father never let go of his anger understandably and wanted to kill the murderers . He was a retired colonel in the army and had great opportunities to take these people out . Many correctional officers are ex military. Mrs . Tate would talk him out of it throughout the years.

260, they moved to Doris Day's Malibu beach house because Melcher was afraid for their lives. Look it up.

Paul Tate attended the trial and was submitted to all that shit. The court mockery and the apathy of the Manson clan.

If having hairy legs and being plain makes you a killer, then half the women in America would be serial killers.

She wasn't a foster child or stuck in the system. Patty came from a middle class background. Keep her inside.

She's lucky to be alive. How far is incarceration from the life she previously knew? Other than dumpster diving, dirty sex and stabbing innocent people to death. Wait, I guess she can still have dirty sex and stab people in prison.

A lot of people said cruel about the victims, right after the murders. Sue Mengers quipped to a panicky Streisand: “Don’t worry, honey, they’re not killing stars, only featured players”

The press painted the picture of the victims as devil-worshippers and decadent druggies. A lot of ordinary people thought the victims got what they deserved as well, simply because they were associated with Hollywood.

Poor Sharon Tate was called, among other things, "the queen of the Hollywood orgy scene" and "a dabbler in the Satanic arts."

One theory bandied about after the murders was that "a Jamaican hip to voodoo" had become part of "Frykowski's drug operation" and that he was conducting some kind of "goona goona" rite that night with everybody stoned out of their minds. Things got out of hand and it ended up a bloodbath. Totally crazy shit like that was being printed. It's so sad that the relatives of the victims had to endure not only the deaths of their loved ones but also having to hear garbage like that.

Alex Jones is a modern day ghoul like what r268 wrote about.

Spouting all that shit about false flags for those poor Sandy Hook parents.

The moment square America discovered that “hippies” were to blame, they all of a sudden felt sorry for the victims.

R268, and they are lying ! And Hollywood people are notoriously jealous and disloyal to their core

I've loved Don McLean's Amerivcan Pie since it first played on the radio. I was five. It always reminds me of Sharon Tate. I'd like to completely decode the lyrics to understand who Miss American Pie is in the song. McLean won't give answers because it's suppose to be impressionistic. I know the song is about loss, but it's beautiful.

Sally Kellerman said that the hippies were dirty and brought Hollywood down

Hippies always struck me as being very strange, dirty and stupid, zonked out on drugs and riddled with VD. I remember on "All In The Family" a couple of Mike's "hippie" friend paid a visit to the Bunkers. They were so unbearable I hoped Archie would kick their asses.

[quote]I remember on "All In The Family" a couple of Mike's "hippie" friend paid a visit to the Bunkers. They were so unbearable I hoped Archie would kick their asses.

Even Gloria lost patience with the chick who was mute by choice.

The way the media portrayed hippies quickly turned to warped version of what a true hippie was. Sorta of like what we’ve done to “woke” people.

When I think of hippies, I think of the singer-songwriters of Laurel Canyon in its heyday . Not the grotesque media version that is still portrayed today.

Also, Manson was a cult leader.

R276- Exactly. Manson was an ex-con who had done hard time in prison. He took full advantage of the hippie and drug culture in order to gaslight his young followers. The last thing Manson was is a hippie.

Wonder why Krenwinkle hasn't been denied parole yet?

[quote]r268 Poor Sharon Tate was called, among other things, "the queen of the Hollywood orgy scene" and "a dabbler in the Satanic arts."

Maybe she was. None of us actually knew her.

I knew Sharon Tate and you, sir, were no Sharon Tate!

I guess she was a fine human being, according to anything you'd find on the internet. Down to earth, sensitive and kind person. Rare.

R268, wasn't Voytek Frykowski essentially a low-level drug dealer?

No. He might have traded or resold small amounts of drugs. Were you alive then? Lots of people did that much. I wouldn't call him a drug dealer. More of a recreational user, partier who was funded by his weathly girlfriend, Gibby Folger. Frykowski was in L.A. hoping to find the same level of success that his friend Roman Polanski had achieved. Voytek and Sebring may have had a run in with Manson, but most information points to them just being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Manson just picked Cielo Drive because he knew the layout and remoteness of the home. He knew that rich and famous people lived there and wanted to incite a race war. Fucktard got his wish. May he roast for eternity.

R283, you are blessed and insightful. R282, and their ilk love to demonize the victims . Mendacity is Manson’s middle name

[quote] Frykowski was in L.A. hoping to find the same level of success that his friend Roman Polanski had achieved.

Too bad that unlike Polanski, he lacked any discernible talent except for latching onto a wealthy coffee heiress.

Didn't get to incite that war. The cringe comes from the intersection of light and darkness. Good and evil.

R284, slow your roll. I think the Manson murderers are exactly where they belong.

285, Frykowski may or may not have had talent in the area of film directing/producing, but that doesn't take away from him as a human being. He probably had some value, he had friends.

R288, I agree.

Roman said he was a terrific friend and also somewhat of a lounge lizard, but he said it warmly . Voyteck was killed so violently and with particular rage induced brutality. It was overkill and then some

[quote] Wonder why Krenwinkle hasn't been denied parole yet?

Krenwinkel was the last of the Manson girls to denounce him. Atkins and Van Houten denounced him in the seventies. It took Pat until the nineties to finally break from him.

Newson is taking his sweet time.

R292, he probably has more important things to contend with than a 50+-year-old crime.

Not if he wants a political career.

R294, he already has a political career.

He won't if he doesn't take action and Krenwinkle walks.

Patty better not get out before my favorite Leslie Van Houten.

Kreni ( actual prison nickname ) will die in prison . Gavin is notorious for waiting till absolute last minute to render his decision.

Make the bitch wait? Just don't wait, too long, Gavin.

R298, exactly. She's going nowhere. I'm kinda surprised that she and Tex keep trying for parole, but I guess when you're sitting in a prison cell for life, what else have you go to do?

Weirder things happen so that's why the victim's families are constantly on pins and needles. And that's why the sickos keep trying to get out.

☝🏼💯 and for malignant narcissists like Tex and Manson siblings , it’s a game to them . A chance to manipulate plus stay in the spot light . Remember, Manson family are infamous for decades and get a lot of mail / financial support . They lived quite nicely in the joint

Reply 278 article, Watson said there were no additional victim's bodies buried at Barker Ranch when he left. Like being incriminated for additional killings would make a difference in his case. I'm sure he has knowledge of other murders and he probably had a hand in some of them.

Manson said of Watson “ no one can murder like Tex.”

Krenwinkle and Atkins tried. Guess their hands got tired from stabbing bone.

Yes ☝🏼 And on way back to ranch and Charlie , Kasabian said Kreni complained how her head hurt from victims pulling her hair .

Kasabian wasn't innocent and got away with murder. Yes, she turned witness and she didn't actually kill, but she was the driver and she knew what was going to happen. She just let it happen, through all the screaming and gunshots. She should have went to the police after she got her baby out of Spahn ranch, but she went into hiding just like the others. Sea cow spends her free days in Tacoma.

Exactly r306 💯☝🏼😭

I meant 307

Happy August 9, haters!

Sharon was not lying when she said her baby was the most important thing in her life . Her last words were “ save my baby , cut the baby out and save baby”

And they hung her before, during or after. Or all of those.

R307, Linda Kasabian was no angel, and her later life of arrests and methamphetamine kinda confirm that. It sort of makes you wonder why Manson hand-picked this relative newcomer to the Family for both nights of murders.

Kasabian may have been the linch pin for the prosecution, but it still makes me sick to see video of her buddy buddy with Bugliosi.

Or Joan Didion buying her courtroom wardrobe at I Magnin in Beverly Hills.

[quote] Maybe she was. None of us actually knew her.

Being one of the most famous murder victims of all time, Sharon Tate's life has been quite documented. And there was never any evidence of her "dabbling in the Satanic arts" or being into orgies. Seems like the only remotely kinky things she ever did was let poor Jay Sebring (the poor man was trying very hard to be sexually adventuresome) tie her up during sex and allowing Roman Polanski to make a sex tape of the two of them "making love."

OP, go fuck yourself!

Patty Krenwinkle and Leslie Van Houten have more than served their time. Both have spent half a century behind bars, and have since become model prisoners who are as fully rehabilitated as anyone could ever hope to see. Year after year, a parade of psychiatrists, social workers, doctors, and penologists weigh in and say these two are of sound mind, honest in their contrition, and no longer a threat to society.

We live in a society that's supposed to seek rehabilitation of criminals, and a society that's supposed to base its laws and procedures on objective rationality rather than mob justice.

Who the sweet hairy fuck are YOU to decide these two belong behind bars even longer?

[quote]Patty Krenwinkle and Leslie Van Houten have more than served their time.

No, they were sentenced to death, so they haven't served their time.

[quote]We live in a society that's supposed to seek rehabilitation of criminals, and a society that's supposed to base its laws and procedures on objective rationality rather than mob justice.

For non-violent criminals and criminals who don't get the death penalty or life sentences. Prison sentences for cold-blooded brutal murderers serve as justice for victims, not as rehabilitation to facilitate the murderer one day walking free.

Who is going to rent these freaks any apartment? Or give them any job?

Better to live in prison.

R317- "Patty Krenwinkle and Leslie Van Houten have more than served their time."

Not until their victims rise from the grave and are given their lives back and all of the years that were cruelly and brutally stolen from them.

Is keeping these two senior citizens behind bars forever going to bring back the dead?

No? So why do it? To satisfy your own personal sense of justice? You weren’t even there. You didn’t even know the LoBiancas, Tate, Folger, or the others. You also haven’t been privy to their therapy sessions, their parole hearings, or their current mental state. You know sweet fuck-all about these women or their rehabilitation. But man, oh man, do you want some sweet lynch-mob justice.

You people are human garbage.

R321- Fuck those vicious little psychopaths. They didn't show one second of mercy to the victims they slashed, terrorized, and butchered. No mercy should be given to them now.

[quote]Is keeping these two senior citizens behind bars forever going to bring back the dead? No? So why do it? To satisfy your own personal sense of justice? You weren’t even there. You didn’t even know the LoBiancas, Tate, Folger, or the others. You also haven’t been privy to their therapy sessions, their parole hearings, or their current mental state. You know sweet fuck-all about these women or their rehabilitation. But man, oh man, do you want some sweet lynch-mob justice. You people are human garbage.

[quote]We live in a society that's supposed to seek rehabilitation of criminals, and a society that's supposed to base its laws and procedures on objective rationality rather than mob justice.

Since when?

R321 = George Gascon

We also live in a society that believes the punishment should fit the crime. That is why these two pieces of filth were given the death penalty.

R326 But those sentences were invalidated fifty years ago, and converted to life sentences. And in California, a life sentence comes with parole and a rehabilitation rubric. Every other prisoner in California is given these rights, and these two are no exception just because they're famous. The state can - and has - paroled other gruesome murderers who fit the rubric and were deemed fit for release.

If it were any other prisoner, people like you would be right here saying "Give them a second chance! Parole is parole! Human rights!" But it's a celebrity twosome and you've seen the miniseries, so now you're turning into Bloody Mary over it.

I guess it's a good thing you raging fools aren't on a state parole board. You're as ignorant as you are fired-up, and our justice system is already broken enough without nutjobs like you in the way.

R328- And your bleeding heart for vicious killers would be frightening for public safety. The " oh, look at two little old ladies. How sad. Let's just open the gate and release them to the public. " You have no fucking way to know what these two sociopaths are capable of even now. An 84 year old murder was just arrested for being an active serial killer. The parole board who released him were convinced that he was a remorseful, harmless old man . Now two or more women are dead, brutally murdered by this senior citizen. When a person has the capacity to violently murder another human being, a stranger who never did any harm to then, they should never be allowed amoung society again. Compassion should be given to the victims of these killers, the killers should spend every second of their life incarcerated.

R329 It's not my bleeding heart. It's the informed conclusion of the California parole authorities. They have access to fifty years of records on these two women, and they say they're fit for parole. You, on the other hand, don't know shit about these two inmates or their mental state.

This is how it's supposed to work in a society of laws. The law says this board gets to make a decision based on facts, reason, and a fair deliberation. You and your hot-headed trash friends seem to think it should be up to you, and how you feel about someone. Grab a pitchfork, trash. You're part of the idiot mob now.

Parole boards can get it wrong, but they generally don't, especially for elderly inmates. For every cherry-picked example someone like you can find, there are thousands of parolees who are living safe, simple, law-abiding lives and making the most of their second chance.

If you want these two birds to stay in prison for life, then get California to change its sentencing laws to abolish parole. Until then, sit down, shut up, and let the trained professionals run the process you clearly don't understand.

Oh fuck off with that. As if parole boards do not release dangerous prisoners all of the time. And fuck off with your pious virtual signaling for two vicious killers. These two nasty little cunts should have been electrocuted decades ago.

R331 And now we come to the point of it.

You don't care about justice, or the law, or facts. You just want to see two women dead. And why? Because they murdered human beings? If you gave these two the chair, then what would that make you?

Go find a dog to kick. You clearly have an unmanageable level of rage inside you, and it's unproductive to vent it on prison inmates in their seventies.

R332- Right. You are the ONLY one evoled enough to care about justice, right? But only what YOU feel justice should be and anyone who feels differently is just wrong, not a good little progressive woke person like yourself, right? So if a majority of people feel these two should have to spend the rest of their life sentence in prison they are just not as enlightened as your special little self? Life in prison was what a jury and a court of law decided their punishment should be. The majority of society still feels that is the proper justice for their crimes. Bit here you are...

It's not about majority rule. It's not up to how the torch-bearing mob feels about a prisoner. This shit isn't American Idol, and your broke ass doesn't get a vote.

Parole boards exist for precisely this reason. They take the decision away from hotheaded fools like you - why ARE you so invested in this, anyway? - and place it in the hands of calm professionals who focus on the facts and measurable outcomes. It doesn't matter how people FEEL about an inmate. It doesn't matter if you think it's fair. It matters how the inmate has behaved and responded to treatment. They did their part. They served the sentence handed to them post-Furman, attended therapy sessions and medical checkups, and have clear records with no violent infractions inside the prison. By every documented measure, they have done exactly what they were told to do. And now it's up to the parole process - and not your idiot feelings - to recommend release or denial.

The courts DID decide their punishment. It was converted to a life sentence. And in California, a life sentence comes with eligibility for parole after a set period of years. This is the law. The only one disrespecting it here is you.

The goal of prisons is rehabilitation. Not punishment. It's pretty twisted that you seem to think it's the other way around, but again, I refer you to my earlier comment on dog-kicking.

R333: But here you are.

[quote]You people are human garbage.

That is really rich, coming from someone who posts the kind of nasty personal attacks you do, just because someone disagrees with you.

The way you regularly turn into a sociopath on these threads makes me think that you don't even care, you're just looking for any old topic to talk about where you can call everyone else on the board "garbage" and "stupid" and pretend like you're the only decent human being on DL.

[quote]You weren’t even there. You didn’t even know the LoBiancas, Tate, Folger, or the others. You also haven’t been privy to their therapy sessions, their parole hearings, or their current mental state. You know sweet fuck-all about these women or their rehabilitation.

Neither do you.

Your unenlightened and uneducated broke ass doesn't get a vote either. You have the ego to think that you know them better than the 12 people who sat on that jury and listened to all of the evidence against them and their total depravity and lack of remorse for killing and mutilating eight innocent people who never even meant these animals. You have no compassion for the families of their victims and the years of hell they have been forced to endure by not only having their loved ones so horribly murdered, but being forced to constantly relieve the crime because these two pieces of garbage have tried to get parole from the moment they unfairly escaped the death sentence that they so deserved. Fuck off with your sympathy for these rabid killers.

R336 I dunno, dude. You're the one who's quite apoplectic about the thin idea that these two women might NOT die behind bars. And you're definitely upset that the state wasn't able to kill them where you could watch.

But do go on about the traits of a sociopath.

No, " dude"? 🙄. These two do not deserve parole and your whining about about the poor little old white haired murders having to die in prison for killing and mutilating 8 people is vomit inducing. You attack anyone here who has a different opinion from your unwarranted egotistical defense of the garbage killers.

The crimes were so horrific, that the battle over the release of the perpetrators is not a hill anyone wants to die on.

Years ago in a more enlightened era, convicts would have hastily been ushered onto the electric chair.

R342- As it should be. 😉

Bobby Beausoleil live performance at Tracy Prison . On back up guitar is Clem Grogan

[quote] Who is going to rent these freaks any apartment? Or give them any job?

Lawyers. Criminal types, even ones that have committed horrific crimes, always seem to have a lawyer or lawyers who take them under their wings. If Krenwinkle or Van Houten ever got out they'd probably work in a law office. Actually, in Leslie Van Houten's case John Waters would probably give her a job as his secretary or something. At any rate there are always lawyers and compulsive do-gooders who want to help murderers.

The Krenwinkle fan in this thread who insists that those who don't want brutal murderers to walk free are a mob who wants to watch people suffer and die (in a death chamber) doesn't see the irony that he, not they, is the heartless one as he supports people who savagely murder others in cold blood. And he thinks supporting such people and wanting them to roam free in society somehow makes him virtuous while those with compassion for victims are bloodthirsty.

On Datalounge, their biggest crimes are not being hot white men. The stretched out mussys here would be singing a different tune.

[quote] in Leslie Van Houten's case John Waters would probably give her a job as his secretary or something.

I find Leslie Van Houten's involvement with the Family to be the most bewildering of them all. Atkins at least came from a very dysfunctional family life, and Krenwinkel was an unloved plain jane with deep insecurity issues. In contrast, LVH was an attractive and popular former Homecoming Princess from a good home.

R348 She talks openly about her experiences and her reasons, and how she feels about it now.

Tell the lynch mob to sit down and listen to her for five minutes, and they'll see she very clearly isn't the same person she was 54 years ago.

Here's Sharon Tate with Merv Griffin in an interview in London. Hugh O'Brien makes an appearance on the street.

Sharon was delightful

Sharon was the only person to come off as a real human being in Valley of the Dolls.

R349- Neither are her victims.

Altobelli seemed like a scumbag. More concerned about his bloody rugs than innocent people being tortured and carved up. This whole story sans the victims is a tell all of the human psyche. Just not in a good way

People with gentle souls.

R354- I agree, he sure was scum.

Just let her have some peace. A life time in prison is already big enough punishment.

Her eyes look scary and brooding

Geeze 45 years in prison. Basically she has never live her life. Thinking about that saddens me.

How many more years of life has she had since taking her victims life from them? , One little victim never even got to be born, despite his mother's pitiful plea to her killers to spare her child. Yeah, no I'm good with her dying in there.

R360 That's 45 years ago. Are you the same person as you are 45 years ago? Just show some kindness to her.

Funny when talking about Iraq war, people think it was 10 years ago and forget it. But they somehow remember this after 45 years ago.

R361- Manson wasn't the same person either. Should we have opened the gate and let him out too?

R362 Manson is dead. Also he was never sane and eligible for parole.

It was the brutality and callousness of the murders R361. Shooting someone is very different from stabbing them.

R364 I know it was horrible. But do you think she deserve few years in freedom after a lifetime of imprisonment when she has changed? She was 65 already. I wouldn't want someone to judge me for who I was 45 years ago. Just show some trust and kindness.

R365- No, not all for all of the lives she took.

Murdering someone, brutality stabbing them to death, is a little bit different than doing something goofy in your life R365

R366 Well, I know that there are people in the oval office who is responsible for the death of million Iraqi. But somehow people still vote for him.

The pro serial killer lover probably thinks Nicole Brown Simpson deserved her ending.

R368- Did you mourn Ted Bundy's fate as well?

R369 but neither OJ Simpson nor the Manson Family could be classified as serial killers.

The Juice killed his wife and her friend in a crime of passion/impulse, and the Manson Family were spree killers, not serials. A serial killer has a methodical process and a specific type of victim. These girls just butchered people at two houses, with no real profile or pattern.

I feel the sorriest for Steven Parent. He really was just at the wrong place at the wrong time, and nobody remembers him. Plus, he was a gayling just trying to get some dick.

That's not completely accurate R371. There are numerous murders connected to the "family," but they just couldn't prove it. They were killers, just not your typical serial killer. The number of people they killed would classify them as serial killers.

serial killer, spree killer, multiple murderer, domestic terrorist. Which moniker is preferable. I still think someone should drone drop a bag of knives in the prison yard.

[quote]Geeze 45 years in prison. Basically she has never live her life. Thinking about that saddens me.

She's lived her life and is living her life. The location in which she's living her life is different from where it was before she chose to brutally stab people to death, but she's living a life.

Instead of being sad, maybe try to understand that sociopaths can fool people, including parole board members, and the Manson family likely isn't sorry for what they did. Anyway, justice is for the victims and their families. not someone removed from it all who preaches about freedom in order to feel noble. It's very easy for you to determine what this inmate "deserves" and to think of yourself as precious, but you're not precious if you care more about the living premises of someone who ruined people's lives forever than about the people who had their lives ended (the victims) or ruined forever (the victims' loved ones). All members of the Manson family have been treated humanely. Their victims were not.

Kreni and Houton hugger loves Ojay.

R375 I guess you are right.

I've heard that the prison Krenwinkle and Van Houten are in is like a college campus. I don't know much about how well Tex Watson and Robert Beausoleil are living. Tex at one time had conjugal visits and fathered 3 children that way, until Doris Tate lobbied to have that discontinued.

Doris was quite a lady. I don't think I'd be as strong. The pain would eat me alive.

[quote] I've heard that the prison Krenwinkle and Van Houten are in is like a college campus.

Krenny, LVH, and 'ol Susie were referred to as Golden Girls in the pen. I'm thinking LVH was the Blanche of the bunch.

Golden shower girls. Pat Krentinkle would play Dorothy.

Pat as Dorothy, Lezlie as Blanche and Susan portraying Rose. Linda would make a poor Sophia. Maybe Squeeky. What incomprehensibly dour analogy.

R371- That is incorrect. A serial killer is defined as someone who kills three or more people and I guarantee you that the Manson meets that requirement.

They didn't stab their victims. They stabbed and stabbed and stabbed. Bitch stabbed Abigail Folger 28 times. You cannot be forgiven for that degree of savagery. Poor Abigail pleaded for Krenwinkle to stop stabbing her body, as even she was aware that she would die from the cuts already received. She cried, "I'm already dead".

Inmate Krenwinkle and Van Houten enjoyed degrading their victims, laughing at Rosemary LaBianca, who stumbled around in a panic with a pillow case tied over her head. Her husband being murdered in the next room.

Don't worry, these killers are eventually going to a warm, dry place. For eternity. If you believe in that sort of thing.

" Bitch, I have no mercy for you." Right back at cha, bitch.

R382, thank you for being a friend!

Manson commented that Kren was the one who most mirrored him. She worshipped Charlie

R387, PK was one of the alpha females of the Family. Kinda explains why she was one of the last holdouts -- a believer all the way into the early '90s, still in communication with Squeaky and Sandra Good.

[quote]I find Leslie Van Houten's involvement with the Family to be the most bewildering of them all.

Her family life is kind of beside the point because Leslie is a total psychopath.

[quote]"Helter Skelter was a Beetles song from The White Album. Manson thought it was a sign that the end of the civilization was coming via racial chaos/fighting. He hated blacks because he was intimidated by their violence during his earlier prison incarcerations. I think he was doing his slid of the hand trick to control his followers. "

[quote]There's always someone who wants to pipe in with a fact or two that is very common knowledge that even the Sentinelese know. We don't need you to point this out. And...you have a lot of nerve spelling Beatles wrong.

Actually a lot of this is disputed. Bugliosi needed a motive and came up with that one, but it's debatable whether this was really the motive behind the murders.

If Newsom has serious aspirations for a Presidential bid in '24, then it would not be a good look to parole this murderer.

Death is the most beautiful trip in the world.

R391 Those tents under every overpass aren't a good look either

Paul Watkins at r392, is not a good person . He was more involved in the madness than he lets on . Manson called him a Judas

any receipts R394? and are you going to believe what Charlie Manson said?

R391 In California, the governor doesn't parole inmates. A board does that.

The governor merely has the power, in certain circumstances, to overrule them.

Why did she make herself so ugly?

396 Isn't that exactly what the poster said?

Pat did not turn against Manson until a Dateline interview in which Manson was shown part of the interview that the women gave from prison. He then mocked Pat by stating " Damn! She got old!" He probably said more but it was so long ago I don't remember. That really made her angry, it was obvious and she could not hide her reaction in time because the camera was right on her face as she watched Manson say that. Her face was angry and very red. Temper, temper. She cared very much what he thought about her even then, late 90's.

[quote] Paul Watkins at [R392], is not a good person . He was more involved in the madness than he lets on . Manson called him a Judas

Paul Watson never killed anybody. And you're lending credibility to what CHARLES MANSON said? Are you fucking nuts?

Interesting, r399.

My father always said, “Tell a woman she’s beautiful, and she’ll do anything you want.”

He was barking up the wrong tree telling me that but of info, but wouldn’t face facts…

Paul Watkins would not kill for Charlie. That made him bad in Manson's opinion.

Charlie

R401 I've told you before. Your father is an idiot!

R403- She cried when Manson died and prayed for his soul? She met with him in prison and just started in his eyes for ten minutes, never speaking a word? Sure, Deb, sure you did. Anything for attention, always milking your sisters tragic death. You certainly did not inherit your mother's dignity and passion for justice. You have always made it all about you, not the victims. Just stfu.

R405, Debra is a decent lady . Cut her some slack

R406- We will have agree to disagree about that.

I don't understand why it matters if they are serial killers o mass murderers. Their intention was create chaos and mayhem and trigger a "race war", that should be classified as terrorism. Thankfully, they weren't the brightest bulbs.

[quote]Paul Watson never killed anybody.

R400 Neither did Manson.

Speaking of Paul Watkins, he describes homosex with other male members of the Family in his memoir. Charlie was very effective in getting the Manson Boys to cast aside their hang-ups and sexual inhibitions re: gay sex. LOL.

R409- I believe he did. I believe the family committed other murders.

R411 They or he probably did, but believing it isn't proof.

R411, I believe they may have killed a man named Karl Stubbs in Olancha. The description of his assailants sounds too similar to the Manson family to be anybody else.

☝🏼 They preyed on decent , kind people .

^^ At least we on DL are therefore safe from them.

[quote] Neither did Manson.

So he said. I guess you believe him. You're very foolish. But assuming for a moment he did not actually kill anyone with his own hands, here is what he DID do: he commanded his followers to kill people in the most brutal of ways, shooting them and stabbing them over and over and over, torturing them, sneering at them while they begged for their lives. That is what he did. Which makes him guilty of first degree murder. Those are the facts.

Bright Yellow

R409- If I were to persuade a person to murder someone such as hiring a hit man and the hitman kills them, are you saying I would not be guilty of murder? If not for me that person would be alive. Manson also gave the order to kill Shorty Shea and he very likely directly participated in the actual murder. He sliced open poor, gentle Gary's face with a sword and ordered his psychopaths to torture him for three days before they finally killed him. He shot a man in cold blood over a drug deal after Tex ' I'm devil ' Watson ripped the guy off. There really are too many violent crimes to list and these are only the ones the public is aware of. Death surrounded Manson. " Fear turns me on." Manson most certainly is murderer. If not for him those two nights of slaughter would not have happened.

I am R359. Upon further reading what she did, I would say she deserve to be in jail. Many people life have been taken away by her and a lifetime in jail is the right punishment.

First of all who was Paul Watson (R400), who never killed anybody, supposedly? There was Tex Watson, and Paul Watkins. Who are we actually talking about?

[[quote] Who are we actually talking about?

It was Paul Watkins. It was a typo. Do you feel better now?

Who are these people?

Tell me about it - -

I always thought the Manson family was responsible for the murder of Marina Elizabeth Habe, the daughter of character actress Eloise Hardt. The was kidnapped and murdered in 1968, and supposedly one of the Manson girls was found with her earrings. Articles at the time said that police sources suspected the same knives used to kill her were later used by the Manson family at Sharon Tate's home.

R421 I thought some people were confusing the two.

Manson clan killed a ton of people. Surprised none of the killers grew a conscience. You'd think that over time, one of them would spill more beans. Sicko fucks.

Exactly ☝🏼 They know that any more victims will increase their sentence . They are not eternally bothered by what they did . There is a difference between regret and remorse

Sharon's little sis looks really good for being almost 70 years of age.

[quote]Murderers have a low recidivism rate. Especially female murderers. Why waste our tax dollars locking up someone who is no longer a threat

If she were released, she would get Medicaid, food stamps, supplemental income and food stamps courtesy of the California taxpayers. She will continue to cost us.

LA Obit on Paul Tate who disguised himself as a hippie to investigate the murders

Now that these women have come to their senses. How stupid must they thought they were to follow this hobo who couldn't make a coherent sentence on the best day of his life.

Her parole has been denied by the governor.

Their only hope is the California Supreme Court.

[quote]Manson Serial Killer, Patricia Krenwinkle Found Suitable For Parole

Manson Serial Killer, Patricia Krenwinkle Found Suitable For Soylent Green

Denied. Newsom blocked Krenwinkle's release. He really took his time doing so.

Oops. Sorry for the repost.

Vicious, bloodthirsty cunts. None of them should ever step one foot out of prison. They should leave in a body bag.

Don’t mess with the Folger family.

She still looks fucking evil in the pic at R434.

You know, holding a grudge will just eat you alive.