How much money did Brian Kinney make on Queer as Folk?

He wasn't a real person. He was a character on a badly thought-out television show.

TV isn't reality.

R1 I thought people on DL liked season 1 though.

Could’ve been a trust fund baby.

Both of my parents are from Pennsylvania. The state is basically one giant dump, and Pittsburgh is nowhere near on the level of New York or Los Angeles. It’s fiction.

R3 he wasn't a trust fund baby, his dad was a worthless asshole loser who he had to support.

An ad exec....in Pittsuburgh. Laughing as I type!

OP Brian made 300-500K a year. In Pittsburgh. Any other questions about verisimilitude in stupid forgotten TV series? Ricky Ricardo? Brady Bunch?

I feel like they made Pittsburgh seem like NYC. Everywhere they went in the city there were 100,000 gay guys in the background.

That show was terribly written. I do expect more from a series.

oh honey, he wasn't a real person.

The American version of the show had an especially stupid pair of showrunners developing it, and the whole premise of the show suffered as a result.

To transpose the British show (which was set in Manchester) to the US, the developers idiotically decided to set it in Pittsburgh, because like Manchester, Pittsburgh is an industrial city. But they should have set in Chicago, because the real point of setting the British show in Manchester was not because of the industrial background, but because it's the second largest city in England (it's not quite London, but it has a big gay community and a lot of money). Chicago has a large gay community that would have made the US version of the show make much more sense, and would have been a city where it would have been plausible to have someone like Brian making so much money in advertising.

I've posted about this show before in that I have a good friend who worked on it the first few years. He told me repeatedly that the developers/ showrunners, Ron Cowen and Daniel Lipman, were neither very bright nor very likable men.

[quote] [R1] I thought people on DL liked season 1 though.

We aren't all one aggregate entity all of the same mind.

We are different people who have different opinions on things.

Unseen on the show, Brian was also a high-class "jet-set", exclusive "call boy" for closeted millionaire executive clients. He was frequently spotted on the United Airlines Pittsburgh-JFK run.

The L Word was also terribly written. To the level of being high camp like Showgirls.

I watched 15 minutes of the reboot and turned it off. Maybe I’m too old and can’t appreciate the wokeness but I did love seeing Kim Cattrall.

[quote] "I feel like they made Pittsburgh seem like NYC. Everywhere they went in the city there were 100,000 gay guys in the background."

A thousand percent, R8. And filmed it in Toronto, so while it was designed and controlled, that just adds another layer, even if it isn't part of the story.

I was ninety minutes from Pittsburgh in undergrad (Let's Go Mountaineers!), and spent time there, but never went to any of the gay bars or clubs. We had our own hometown gay bar in Morgantown (Vice Versa, which is still alive & thriving), so when I got to Pittsburgh on occasion, I preferred to take in The Warhol Museum, Pittsburgh Glass Center, The Benedum, The Strip, and other cultural landmarks (which isn't to say that the gay nightlife there ISN'T part of the culture, because it obviously is). And Pittsburgh isn't a dirty city, but the show's version is definitely a little more polished and put together. But of course it is. It's television.

[quote] "oh honey, he wasn't a real person."

No, he wasn't, R10. But I always enjoy speculating about these sorts of things the OP mentions. It's been done to death with 'Sex and the City", so this was a nice change. I too have often wondered what his income would have to look like to sustain that kind of lifestyle.

I always found it hilarious that Brian bought a farm in West Virginia at the close of the series. There are definitely wealthier gays who run historic properties in my home state (I've known a few personally), but not really in the North Central part of the state south of Pittsburgh. Shepherdstown & Harper's Ferry in the Eastern Panhandle (closer to NOVA & Washington DC) would've been more accurate. Of course, I don't recall them saying anything more specific than West Virginia. Anyway, I just think it's funny.

Thanks for posting OP. If this thread takes off, I'm really going to enjoy it.

As many DLers who work in advertising have pointed out, Brian's job did not actually exist in a real ad agency-- he was supposed to have been an account executive but he also wrote the ads. So Don Draper + Roger Sterling rolled up into one person.

Ad industry DLers also pointed out that few people in advertising wore suits in the early 2000s - jeans and t-shirt were was far more common.

It's odd that they never checked in with someone at an ad agency to understand what job functions there were.

The show wouldn’t work set in the present. Can you imagine some Gen Z exec making that much money? They would still be living with their parents.

I had a bed like Brian's in an old apartment. I hated it. Those low to the floor platform beds limit sex positions.

The base salary for Vice President of Advertising (which was Brian Kinney job title) ranges from $183,973 to $283,843 with the average base salary of $224,753.

No way a 29 year old gets that much.

I understood he used his magic penis to bring in new business. So yeah, they paid him a lot.

How many of you moved to Pittsburgh because you thought it was the gay Mecca?

R8: The American adapters (there's a new title) saw the original show as being in Manchester, which is an industrial city, so they though, oh, Pittsburgh. Never mind Manchester is the San Francisco of the UK when it comes to "the gays". They could have put it in New York, San Francisco, Chicago, hell Toronto where it was filmed would have made more sense. But no, industrial working class city, so Pittsburgh it was.

[quote] So yeah, they paid him a lot.

If you bring in a TON of clients - you do make that much, I worked in advertising and it doesn't matter how young you are

You bring in clients - you can make that much. Even more, if you bring in even more clients

That is what keeps an ad agency afloat - clients

Does that apply today to Gen Z? Are they making $250,000?

[quote] Does that apply today to Gen Z? Are they making $250,000?

If a GenZ comes in the door and suddenly signs clients like Visa, Disney and ABC for the ad agency - their salary will be bumped up to over one million

Weren't the guys from "thirtysomething" ad execs from Pittsburgh? They were the original yuppies.

Philadelphia, r28.

R27 Well it's all an academic exercise because no GenZer is that talented. I work with plenty of them, some who are talented and good workers, but certainly not prodigies.

Have you ever seen Friends? How did Monica and Rachel afford that apartment? It would have been at least 10000 a month. You have to let go of some realizm.

[quote] "thirtysomething" ad execs made more money than their friend, the college professor

I remember a show where the college professor was struggling, and was resisting financial help from his friends the ad executives

[quote] some who are talented and good workers, but certainly not prodigies.

Kinney on QAF was portrayed as brilliant ad executive that could sign clients, because he knew how sell - hence making that much money

But you have to remember this is television. While it is television, in advertising it is about how much clients you have on your roster. and if the client likes the executive handling their account, you don't want that executive leaving for a rival agency - because the client will leave iwth him. Hence the executive being able to command a high salary

you make the client happy staying with the firm, by making the executive happy with his salary

[quote]How did Monica and Rachel afford that apartment?

Monica's grandmother willed it to her via rent control.

[quote]You have to let go of some realizm.

Never! Pragmatic, sensible, realism all the way!

The show made a point that Brian is a big fish in a small pond. In one episode, he has the chance for a more lucrative job in a bigger town, but then realizes that he'd lose his alpha status if he'd move.

Of course, it is fiction, but the show wanted him to be the ultimate alpha, big fish in town who has a great, or "great" life.

One thing that happened in the ad agency I worked with - the client LOVED the executive handling their account

So much so, they asked themselves - why are we paying the agency this high fee so they can handle out account.

What they did was hire the executive AWAY from the agency to work for them in-house - saving them a ton of dough.

So if the client LOVES YOU - you can command a high salary, If you don't get it, you can leave for a rival agency and take your clients with you

Part of the point was also that as a gay man without a wife and children) he could spend all his money for himself. I don’t think they ever mentioned him saving money for retirement.

Brian was so successful, that he could refuse sleeping with a client who wanted him (happened in the first season). Not that many ad executives have that luxury (or are put in that position in the first place).

R37 He had automatic 401k contributions with company match I'm sure.

R38 you're expected to sleep with clients? What if they're not hot?

r40. That's the point. Nobody of his rank would've been in that position in the first place. The old sleazy (married with children) potential client propositioned him and Brian considers it, only to bail at the last second.

Part of it was inspired by the original, where Stuart (Aiden Gillen) goes with the client to the club and the client makes his moves and Stuart immediately introduces him to some other guy to get him off his back.

It's not like the Brit version was really much better, was always mystified why they would cast Aidan Gillen of all people as the stud top. It might just have been a shortage of actors willing to do fairly explicit gay sex scenes. On the other hand, you could argue that twink Charlie Hunnam made everything all better, he was bloody hot back then.

I watched the remake and it is SO much better written.

But it was a gay desert back then.

R43 No it’s not it’s shit still. Go take a walk

So in the remake, does the Gen Z Brian character make $250,000?

R45 The new brian character is black and trans.

A black and trans ad executive? How much does they make?

I imagine all you hypercritical queens preferred All in the Family.

Is it that hard to believe OP? Don Draper managed to have a great lifestyle and NYC is way more expensive than Pittsburgh. Brian's main hobby was sex so he probably didn't spend that much money day to day.

LOL

Don Draper was supposed to have been the name partner at a major NYC ad agency...back in the 60s when advertising was a hot profession that paid well, especially the guys who wrote the ads.

For those insisting on reality, re-read R17 - Brian's job does not exist at a real ad agency. To use the Mad Men example, they had him doing Don and Roger's jobs simultaneously. .Or Peggy and Pete Campbell's.

The point seemed to have been that he was a blue collar kid who'd made good and was the only male character with a solid professional job.

Why the lesbians always struggled financially despite the dark haired one being a lawyer and the blonde being a college grad was never explained.

Ad guys make a lot of money. I married one and we both live in a nice home in a lovely neighborhood. The boss and his wife come over a lot for dinner and have met quite a few of my eccentric relatives. It's all fun, except for a nosy neighbor who's off her meds.

Did Brian ever visit the gay shrine that is the birth place of Vera Charles?

"[R43] No it’s not it’s shit still. Go take a walk"

Daddy issues?

Some of the comments on here scream uncultured and haven’t explored the world outside of LA or NYC.

There are many people in Pittsburgh who make a shit ton of money. Making money isn’t exclusive to NYC and LA. Also, to the person upthread who said all of PA is poor and trash, that’s a massive lie. Please just stop. Some of you expose yourselves way too much.

Ad-agencies existed in every city. Again, it’s not exclusive to NYC or LA.

Pittsburgh isn't "poor". However, the standard of living is lower compared to big cities like New York City. Of course, in the fictional universe of QAF, Brian could live more than comfortably on his salary and help out his friends and family on occasion.

A more "real" portrayal would be to show a gay guy like him having credit card debt up to his eyeballs, being notoriously cheap in some areas of life (using coupons for food and drink) or buying off the rack fashion and stitching designer labels on them at home.

For most gays, the premise of the local, successful (A-List) gay in town is a myth. Most gays struggle as much with their money and social standing as any regular straight guy. But that doesn't make "good" TV.

R50 you think being a college grad means you automatically will never have to struggle? Are you serious?????

R31 no. It wouldn’t have cost $10k a month in the 90s. Smh. Spoken like a true transplant.

I remember watching that show when Kinney's Jeep was trashed and thinking that if he had any money, he wouldn't be driving a fucking Jeep.

R55 how would that be more realistic? It’s all about salary to cost of living ratio. If he’s a successful ad agent, he is bringing in 6 figures annually. If he’s bringing in 6 figures annually, he can live a great life.

A standard of living being lower doesn’t mean every person in the city lives by the same means. THAT is realistic. There are wealthy areas and people in Pittsburgh.

Also standard of living being lower usually means the average person makes less there but the cost of living is also less there. Average doesn’t mean everyone. There are those who make above average and those who make below. He made above average. Every city has people who make a lot. This isn’t fake.

He had a Jeep because he wanted a Jeep.

R43 that's not what IMDB reviews say......

Brian drove a Jeep because Stuart drove a Jeep in the UK version.

"Come on boys, give us a kiss!"

"I'll give you a good FUCK! Tight little virgin, you won't be laughing then."

[quote]Pittsburgh isn't "poor". However, the standard of living is lower compared to big cities like New York City.

The COST of living is lower in smaller cities compared to NYC, but I wouldn't say the standard is lower. Quite the opposite, it's much easier to have a higher standard of living NOT living in NYC. Even with Brian Kinney money, paying $5-$6K a month for a Manhattan apartment wouldn't exactly leave him wealthy.

Who cares?

It wasn't real and Brian was a caricature of what fags worship when they think of a masc straight acting white gay.

R58 Well, Jeeps aren't Range Rovers, but a fully loaded Jeep these days can be $60K - $70K. Most people cannot afford a vehicle like that.

Brian wouldn't have been "Gen Z". His character started at 29 and aged into his 30s as the show progressed over several seasons.

Gen Z right now is aged 10 - 25.

R66 everyone knows this. He was 29 in 2000? So he was cussing Gen X and Millennial.

R63 THANK YOU. A lot of the nice apartments you can get in Pittsburgh are not only cheaper than Manhattan, but some just as nice and larger! This idea that everyone outside of NYC or LA is struggling is weird, when more people are struggling in those cities than not.

R67 I meant he wouldn't be the age of someone Gen Z today, as someone kept comparing him to upthread.

R68 YOU'RE WELCOME!

R69 oh I understand. Yes, I found it weird that person claims to work with tons of Gen Z. Most of them are teenagers…

For the person who was saying "People didn't wear suits at Ad Agencies in year 2000"

I worked in advertising at that time and Account Executives ABSOLUTELY wore suits at the office - especially when dealing with the clients at that time. It would be unheard of not to wear a suit as it would seem unprofessional

The only people who could get away with going casual at the office, were those who worked in "creative" the men could get away without wearing a suit around the office,

But occasionally if there was a BIG client "get" - those in creative would wear a suit to a pitch, so they could make a good impression.

re: Jeep -- I seem to recall there being a plot line, stolen from the UK version, that Jeeps were to gays what Subarus were to lesbians, a cliche of sorts, and that is why Brian was driving one.

I was not of driving age at the time, but it did not sound accurate to me, at least not in the US. (Maybe Jeeps were big with gays in the UK?)

There was an episode where Brian went broke after using all his money to pay for TV ads against a homophobic mayoral candidate. He was selling off his belongings. His friends raised money afterward and gave it to him. Soon after that, he was very successful again and gave the money back.

It was not unheard of for an ad guy to be making $200k a year at 29 (I did it at 31) in the late 90s. But you would have to be a creative director with multiple award winners or an account guy who pulled in a massive $100m or more client and are the reason they are in the building. Unusual but not unheard of. Brian seemed to be a suit so this could have been possible (Hollywood never understood the difference in advertising).

Pittsburgh never, ever had a creative agency with a national reputation. I recall a direct marketing agency called MARC but that wouldn’t fit Brian’s profile. However, there were then and are still world-class agencies in smaller cities: Portland and Wieden & Kennedy the most famous, The Martin Agency in Richmond, The Richards Group in Dallas, McKinney in Raleigh, Fallon in Minneapolis, later on Crispín Porter & Bogusky in Miami later Boulder, maybe Earle Palmer Brown in Baltimore. Detroit had the car shops where a straight acting Brian could have gotten to $200k, and he could have done it at Leo Burnett or DDB in Chicago.

At $300k back then, you were running the agency and/or a serious new business rainmaker. And no one *had* to fuck a client to get ahead, even though many did. Setting it in Chicago with Brian at DDB (Leo was more homophobic and promoted from within, didn’t pay as well) might have made the most sense.

Brian probably also got six figure annual bonuses

R74 these days he would just start a GoFundMe.

R75 are you quickly fired if you don't perform consistently or just bring in small clients? I could never be in that business as I imagine there have to be some clients that are impossible to please.

Brian went solo fairly quick (season three?) and started his own ad agency. Dude was either loaded or knew how to get investors to throw their money at him. The same way he got clients to go with him and his ideas.

R75 neither Dallas or Miami are small cities. Miami is classified as a World City, with LA and NYC. Everyone from all over the world goes there.

Some of you are forgetting part of why Brian was so successful. He was a physically appealing guy who was incredibly charming and charismatic when he needed to be. Those guys are always the best at that kind of job.

If you’re hot there are people who will wanna work with you just because of that.

[quote]Earle Palmer Brown in Baltimore

Did they move from DC (Bethesda)? I had a friend who worked there.

[quote]These days he would just start a GoFundMe.

More likely, a ComeFuckMe.

R46 the new one does not have Brian as trans. He is black and a med school drop out. His parents are rich so he can coast while he figures things out. His best friend is trans and having a baby with her lesbian partner.

The twins is very cute when out of drag. And he can actually act!!! The remake was really really good!

Twink* not twins

It's cheap to live there, look what you get for about 1.2 million. Now compare that to what you would get in NYC.

And the Strip District is where I pictured Brian's loft or apartment being located, r85.

R85 that’s pretty much where I assumed Brian would be living. That area, that is.

[quote] The base salary for Vice President of Advertising (which was Brian Kinney job title) ranges from $183,973 to $283,843 with the average base salary of $224,753.

Twenty years ago?

R88 over 20 years ago. There were men in the 80s/90s bringing in $200k

There are rich people with high paying jobs in every city in America. Why is this a hard concept to grasp? Sure a lawyer for example in NYC is going to make more than one in Pittsburgh but trust me, they both will be living high on the hog in their own respective cities.

Advertising paid more 20 years ago than it dies today. Digital suppressed the salaries and all the high earning talent decamped to Silicon Valley, Wall Street, and Hollywood.

Brian was very generous with his money. He supported Justin (including college tuition), paid child support to Lindsay, and gave cash to his dad.

Paying Twinks for sex is not support Dear.

Sorry, R83, the remake seems a little too woke for me. Enjoy.

“Woke”. You’re gay.

I have heard this many times too R91, mostly from clients who are unhappy with their ad agencies and claim it's because they can't get the talent they used to get

When I watched the British version, I had to turn on the Closed Captions because I didn't understand a word they said. I wish they spoke English.

R54 The Brooklyn Seacow Ed.win the McDonalds connoisseur is talking about cultured living LMAO. What does a tacky.fatso like you, know about that Ed.win??

Your obsession with this person and need to call out his every post is creepy AF and far more annoying

[quote] OP Brian made 300-500K a year. In Pittsburgh. Any other questions about verisimilitude in stupid forgotten TV series? Ricky Ricardo? Brady Bunch?

r7 Do you mean “Merely corroborative detail, intended to give artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative?”

I kind of wanna rewatch the show. Where is it streaming?

R99 kindly fuck yourself, Seacow apologist!

R101 showtime has season 1 posted on youtube for free. But the original songs have been removed and been replaced with really awful music.

Oh it’s probably on Showtime app. I have Paramount+ and they gave me a deal where I get both Paramount+ and Showtime for $10 a month, or $13 without commercials on Paramount. I did the $13 one.

Thanks for the reminder, R104. I have to cancel my Paramount+ sub (I only got it to see the first half of the Tony awards).

I was a teenager when this show was on and I would sneak and watch it late at night on Showtime. I miss that.

I always wanted a Brian Kinney. 14 year old me found what him and Justin had so sexy for some reason

Long QAF thread here

R106 would you want him now?

R108 as a friend, yes. Not as a lover. I am 36 now and he isn’t someone I could get serious with at all as an adult. But as a teenager I thought there was something very sexy and forbidden when it comes to him.

Everyone shits on their relationship, and yes it was problematic, but I found it kinda sweet and sexy at times.

I’ve been in relationships I shouldn’t have as a minor so I think I also understood what Justin was feeling at times. But my guys were never Brian Kinney’s, almost emotionally detached.

OP you'd probably be shocked if you knew how many people who live the same way that guy appeared to are actually living check to check, are in hock for everything they have, and are just waiting for the bottom to drop out at any time.

R110 you’re right but some actually have the money. Brian did.

I remember when the American QAF was in its first season, I went into a Pittsburg gay chat room on AOL (I know, I know) and asked "Is Pburg really like that?" and got a whole chorus of NO!

Pburgh has some very nice parts. But the show was very clearly filmed in Canada.

Re: the shitty replacement music, the older DVD pressings for the box sets (2006–2007) still have the original tracks.

The showrunners claimed that they set the show in Pittsburgh because they had to make it "real" -- i.e. to be just another show in NYC.

I guess the numerous gay bashings on QAF would not have rung true if it had been set in Manhattan, so they have a point there.

However they made the characters look and act as if they were in New York, so the show still lacked versimilitude.

How do Manhattan people act that is exclusive to them? In every city you have all types of gays that make the most out of their city.

I never got the impression they acted like guys in Manhattan, especially Michael, Elliott and Ted. They felt like small city gays. Brian was wealthy and they act above all in any city or suburb you go to.

The gay bashing comment is stupid. There were plenty of them in the 90s and early 00s. I can’t believe some of you live in this make believe bubble.

Gale’s acting was so campy numerous times. He could be so over the top. But it worked for the show.