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Where is a conceivable place to move to in the event this country becomes completely unlivable over the next 4-8 years?

I've always written off that notion of escaping the US, thinking it was a drama queen thing to say, and not very practical or appealing. I've always thought NYC would sustain me--I have a great apartment, I've lived here all my adult life, and it truly fees like a haven. However, this is the closest I've come to thinking it might become a real necessity to get out. Part of me still feels that's silly. Another part of me says the writing on the wall is pretty ominous.

Problem is: if one isn't in their 30s or 40s and can just swan off to another country, either because of age, family ties, or money, what to do? Also, if English is your one and only language? And what about the Social Security I'll be entitled to--what happens to that if you leave to live elsewhere?

I know this is Datalounge, but I'd appreciate serious, thoughtful reflections from others who are feeling similar issues of impending doom and hopelessness. Or is the U.S. just too damn big to implode into an unlivable, one-party-ruled police state?

by Anonymousreply 538September 14, 2022 4:55 PM

You can live anywhere and still draw your Social Security.

by Anonymousreply 1June 25, 2022 4:37 PM

You might as well stay and fight for your rights, because if the US folds the rest of the world will follow like dominoes

by Anonymousreply 2June 25, 2022 4:39 PM

R1, even if you become a citizen of another country or have that country's equivalent of a green card? Do you know?

by Anonymousreply 3June 25, 2022 4:43 PM

OP you're the fourth person i know who is thinking in the same way. They are well known in their fields, older, but... I don't know what else i can say about them. They are extraordinary people and they don't contemplate a move for dramatic effect.

by Anonymousreply 4June 25, 2022 4:46 PM

Learn Spanish and prepare for a decline in lifestyle that will be permanent for most.

by Anonymousreply 5June 25, 2022 4:49 PM

Yes, you can have the SS deposited in any bank account in the world with a few exceptions.

by Anonymousreply 6June 25, 2022 4:50 PM

Don’t try to claim refugee status in the UK. They’ll ship you off to a holding tank in Rwanda.

by Anonymousreply 7June 25, 2022 4:51 PM

I don't think either is necessary, R5, from what I've been reading about others who've left.

by Anonymousreply 8June 25, 2022 4:53 PM

r8, I mean for anyone who intends to stay in the US, which will probably be a better bet than most places in the world, even now. There will be no escape, no country to flee to where everything's fine and dandy. Nobody's getting out alive, I'm afraid, except maybe the rich.

by Anonymousreply 9June 25, 2022 4:57 PM

There are many countries you can go and stay in long term but you will never get citizenship if that is something that is important to you.

by Anonymousreply 10June 25, 2022 4:58 PM

Not really, R10. If I don't have to.

by Anonymousreply 11June 25, 2022 5:00 PM

OP, I understand. I may be choosing a similar path.

As a US citizen you don't have too many options. Canada would, of course, be ideal, but unless you have an employer that would bring you there, that avenue is limited, and generally, anyone over 40 is unlikely to qualify via the points system.

The most likely scenario for you might be trying to move to Puerto Vallarta. It's a Mexican town where English is widely spoken, and the cost of living seems to be not terribly unreasonable. I believe you may have to leave/reenter the country every so often on a visitor visa, but I think there's a pathway to living there. (Maybe Pissalina can tell us all about this?)

Australia and New Zealand may be an option as well, for tech workers especially. But to be honestly, Canada, AU and NZ aren't that different from the US - urbane in the cities but backwards cow-fucking fundamentalism in the hinterlands.

You are still entitled to your Social Security unless you were to renounce American citizenship. I'm not counting on my SS because quite frankly, I believe the system will be insolvent by then.

One complication that's happening for many US expats living abroad is that local banks are reluctant to open any kind of accounts for them, not even a basic checking account. The reason is that a few years ago, the US implemented the FACTA laws. I believe this was originally designed to fight money laundering, but it's had the unintended effect that foreign banks are unwilling to open accounts for Americans, because the reporting requirements for doing so are incredibly onerous. So if you ever lived somewhere else long term, this might be something to look into with your own bank to ensure access.

by Anonymousreply 12June 25, 2022 5:02 PM

The issue we face is that these authoritarian movements are happening worldwide.

Yes, some democracies are holding firm, but sometimes, barely.

The problem in the US is that the majority of Americans are NOT down with this, yet the minority rule is being forced upon the majority.

These turn of events are legitimately raising questions such as: Hoe much worse is this going to get? And how rapidly will it get worse?

That, along with forgetting about becoming a homeowner in America, is making us question what the fuck were doing here and why would we want to stay?

Had I known then what I know now, I probably would not have risked it, and would have left 20 or 25 years ago. Now? It may be too late.

All of us are sick of voting in EVERY single election, regardless of what state we reside in, yet being systematically stripped of our rights and then bearing the brunt of an ever voracious Capitalist economy.

I’d rather pay MUCH higher taxes elsewhere, and get what I want and pay for, in return.

And yes, I’m aware Americans abroad who do not renounce American citizenship, pay American taxes.

Who wants to pay taxes to a country that continues to not represent the interests of the majority?

I know I don’t.

And this isn’t going to improve.

Where we are now regarding the economy and social injustices are the new normal.

If we stay here, we are going to have to get used to it. This in never going back to what it was before Trump. Those days are over, and that’s the truth.

We get what we vote for, or more specifically, DO NOT vote for when we choose to skip even one single election from local government to the presidency.

by Anonymousreply 13June 25, 2022 5:05 PM

Interesting, R12. A friend of mine (straight married, well off) vacations annually at a gay resort town he loves called Zipolite. Sounds like that might be similar to Puerto Vallarta.

by Anonymousreply 14June 25, 2022 5:08 PM

When I lived abroad I kept my USA bank account open and just used the ATMs where ever I was. You also do not need to be an USA citizen to receive social security. You only need to have worked 10 years in the USA.

by Anonymousreply 15June 25, 2022 5:13 PM

I'm so glad I left the US...before Trump was elected I thought about maybe returning back to NY, but everything has completely changed. The US is turning into a theocracy...it will not get better - only worse.

by Anonymousreply 16June 25, 2022 5:24 PM

Where are you in Europe, R16? And did you renounce citizenship or are you on some kind of extended visa?

by Anonymousreply 17June 25, 2022 5:26 PM

US citizens can’t just move to an EU country. Brits found out the hard way after Brexit that the world doesn’t revolve around Anglo-Saxons.

by Anonymousreply 18June 25, 2022 5:39 PM

“a EU country” ^

by Anonymousreply 19June 25, 2022 5:40 PM

You can move to Albania and stay a year on a tourist visa before leaving the country and then coming back. True is Georgia too.

by Anonymousreply 20June 25, 2022 5:43 PM

Nobody wants whiny coward monolingual Americans festering up their dole lines.

by Anonymousreply 21June 25, 2022 5:45 PM

Why not buy a second home upstate? There are plenty of places that are dirt cheap: astoundingly cheap. A little shack you can retreat to if there's another lockdown, or World War Z breaks out and you need to get away from the zombies.

by Anonymousreply 22June 25, 2022 5:45 PM

[quote]if the US folds the rest of the world will follow like dominoes

Not anymore. And the rest of the world would probably rejoice.

by Anonymousreply 23June 25, 2022 5:46 PM

Fast zombies or slow zombies, R22? It makes a difference as to distance of the shack to which one retreats.

by Anonymousreply 24June 25, 2022 5:47 PM

That's not quite the long haul I was speaking of, R20. Not just a year here and there.

I'm ignoring snark. Looking at you, R21.

I was specifically speaking about leaving the country entirely, R22--as a possibility, anyway.

by Anonymousreply 25June 25, 2022 5:48 PM

Maybe someone here should enter a marriage of convenience with German Gay Guy? Just an idea. Berlin is quite pretty in the summer....

by Anonymousreply 26June 25, 2022 5:49 PM

Kevin Sessums really has been a trail blazer in this regard. Half the year in a cosy upstate pad; half the year swanning the world. Try modelling yourself on Kevin, OP. He's a visionary. A seer. Start with the turtle neck and glasses, and post us a legs astride selfie, and we'll critique your progress. Ruthlessly.

by Anonymousreply 27June 25, 2022 5:49 PM

Seth Efrica.

by Anonymousreply 28June 25, 2022 5:49 PM

[quote] Problem is: if one isn't in their 30s or 40s and can just swan off to another country

Gurl, I hate to break it you but your stuck here in the old US of A regardless. I am in my early 40's and there is no swanning to different countries. NOBODY WANTS AMERICANS. Canada doesn't want us, the UK doesn't want us, and I don't want Mexico or some 3rd world place that does. Your best bet is just move to your own little blue Utopia like LA, SF, NYC or the other small handful of blue, gay friendly cities. Unless you are incredibly wealthy or have a highly specialized skill, it's non started. I guess you could do PV but meh - you'll face a handful of other ghastly challenges. Or you could marry of foreigner or just travel 6 months out the year and try to be out of the US as much as possible.

by Anonymousreply 29June 25, 2022 5:50 PM

That makes it a bit harder OP. There are a ton of countries that you can do "visa runs" in and stay forever it seems but it doesn't offer the level of security you are seeking. Are you old enough to get a retirement visa OP?

by Anonymousreply 30June 25, 2022 5:51 PM

Haha, thanks, R27, but I'll pass on that one.

Thanks, R29. I already live in NYC and love it. I'm talking more about a down-the-road emergency. As I said, this is hypothetical. To leave NYC would be a bigger deal for me than leaving the country, if you know what I mean.

by Anonymousreply 31June 25, 2022 5:52 PM

Bizarre there's someone here claiming Canada and Australia have 'backwards cow-fucking fundamentalism' outside the cities - is this a serious claim? There will be kicks, but not fundies of the US sort. Ad yet the same poster recommends MEXICO as some sort of haven.

by Anonymousreply 32June 25, 2022 5:54 PM

R30, the idea of visa runs sounds intriguing. I don't know about retirement visas--how old do you have to be (though I'm probably not yet old enough but depending on how many years this would all take, maybe) and how do they work?

by Anonymousreply 33June 25, 2022 5:54 PM

Land is incredibly cheap in Siberia, and there was an article in the UK papers saying that Putin wants people to move there. You could become a realtor in Novosibirsk, OP. Novosibirsk Gay Pride might not be big yet, but is that going to stop you. No! What are you? A winner! A winner in Novosibirsk. Livin the dream.

by Anonymousreply 34June 25, 2022 5:55 PM

That was my other question about Mexico--not wedded to the idea of Mexico and always thought it was dangerous.

by Anonymousreply 35June 25, 2022 5:55 PM

I'd like to go to Europe or NZ but it's just not realistic. Moving countries is not like moving states.

by Anonymousreply 36June 25, 2022 5:57 PM

Absolutely you can collect Social Security benefits outside the U.S. It's quite easy and SS explains how to do it, no subterfuge necessary.

You can even collect SS after you renounce U S. citizenship, should you wish.

Medicare Part A (I think, the basic part that's free) benefits are available, likewise if you renounce citizenship. The problem is that they will not be available in the country you've made your new home. But private insurance in many European countries is a pittance compared to U.S. costs, and provides far greater coverage of costs. In Spain someone mid-60s can get coverage with the most expensive insurers for €80 to €150 a month, no deductibles, no co-pays, no minimum out-of-pocket expenses, and prescriptions as well. If you have permanent residency in many countries, you become eligible for national health care after 1 year, 2 years, 5 years, meaning you would have to self-insure for a limited period of time. Rules and costs vary by country, of course.

There are various retirement and investment (usually including purchase of real estate for your own use) and non-lucrative visas (meaning you demonstrate a very basic level of self-sufficiency and that you are not taking income from work from an employer in your new country.). Each country has its own programs. 17 EU countries offer some form of citizenship by descent visas or citizenship.

Citizenship and residency permits are different things, obviously, but some period of residency is usually s path to citizenship should you desire it.

Renouncing U.S. citizenship is easy. It costs about $2000 I think and you must "settle up" your U.S. bar tab before being done with what would otherwise be tax obligations forever. The rules are fairly straightforward, as are the thresholds for how much money you can shift without tax obligation and the liabilities for the money in excess of that amount. The U.S. has reciprocal income tax requirements with many countries such that if you are s tax citizen of X, then you pay tax there and then report your income and non-U.S. income taxes paid and you likely will owe nothing further until it exceeds a certain amount -- you pay to your new home country, but retain the obligation to file a tax return in the U..S. (unless you renounce.)

by Anonymousreply 37June 25, 2022 5:58 PM

It would be easier to remove your uterus OP.

by Anonymousreply 38June 25, 2022 6:02 PM

Sorry: your man-uterus.

by Anonymousreply 39June 25, 2022 6:03 PM

My mother has been collecting US social security for a decade at least living in Canada. And she only lived in the US for a decade as a stay home mother (I grew up in Colorado before moving back to Canada for high school) and only had PR status while there.

by Anonymousreply 40June 25, 2022 6:24 PM

[quote]To leave NYC would be a bigger deal for me than leaving the country, if you know what I mean.

Oh GAWD, how I detest New Yorkers.

by Anonymousreply 41June 25, 2022 6:35 PM

NYC is a pretty good place to be if you're gay, R41. I wouldn't knock it. It's better than most other places in the country, especially if you're gay.

by Anonymousreply 42June 25, 2022 6:37 PM

I don’t know about Americans, but Georgia (not the USA one) has taken in a lot of Russians who wanted to get out when the war started. I watch a guy who’s a YouTuber there in Tblisi and it’s a gorgeous place.

by Anonymousreply 43June 25, 2022 6:42 PM

I’m not knocking NYC, R42, although I would never want to live there. It’s the fucking arrogance of New Yorkers that I hate so much.

by Anonymousreply 44June 25, 2022 6:53 PM

R44 I actually found New Yorkers to be much less arrogant than other parts of the east coast. Brusque but down to earth ( with some exceptions). D.C. and Boston were vastly snootier and inexplicably full of themselves. D.C. was the worst of the three. I don't enjoy city life in general anymore though.

by Anonymousreply 45June 25, 2022 7:02 PM

English speaking countries:

Canada - Pros: Not too much culture shock. Cons: Cold in winter, Canadians UK - Pros: Lots of variety and culture. Cons: Job shortage, Yobs. Ireland - Pros: Nice people, Gay friendly. Cons: Expensive and rainy. Australia - Pros: Lovely weather and wildlife. Cons: Strangualtion by red tape, basically a police state. New Zealand- Pros: Beautiful and temperate. Cons: The government will literally want to wipe your ass for you, expensive produce. Liberia- Pros: Cheap. Cons: Ebola, SLIGHT resentment of American colonisation. Jamaca- Pros: Sunshine and lovely people, ganja. Cons: endemic crime and poverty. South Africa - Pros- BEAUTIFUL, warm, gay friendly and dirt cheap. Cons: Raped and murdered before breakfast. Nigeria- Pros warm, cheap and full of western business concerns. Cons: Political instability, poverty, terrorism.

by Anonymousreply 46June 25, 2022 7:05 PM

Chicken littles gonna chicken little

by Anonymousreply 47June 25, 2022 7:08 PM

I lived in Nigeria and it is a violent hellhole. One of my USAID coworkers was raped and beaten so badly she was medevac'd to Walter Reed.

You can't go to the North now because you will get beheaded.

Ibadan and Lagos were two of the most disgusting places I have been, and I have worked around the globe.

by Anonymousreply 48June 25, 2022 7:10 PM

Not that Canada would take me, but I've always thought Quebec looks lovely ( I'm a Francophile) . But I've heard so many people insist that French Canadians are cunts. Then again I thought Parisians were polite and helpful when I was there a decade ago so maybe I'd be fine. Again this is all just fantasy anyway because it would be almost impossible to emigrate.

by Anonymousreply 49June 25, 2022 7:10 PM

[quote]OP you're the fourth person i know who is thinking in the same way.

How on Earth do you know even four people who care about this? Every person on the planet I know is not even talking about this thinking about it discussing it nothing whatsoever world without end on and on and on and on.

by Anonymousreply 50June 25, 2022 7:11 PM

Well, that's your world, R50, not the actual world where others also live.

by Anonymousreply 51June 25, 2022 7:15 PM

Then be grateful you live in that world, r52. It's a privilege that I was not afforded.

by Anonymousreply 52June 25, 2022 7:25 PM

I don't even know what you're talking about, R52. You're woefully inarticulate yet angry that others have perspectives or concerns that you don't share and seek to trivialize. If you have nothing to offer, why are you here?

by Anonymousreply 53June 25, 2022 7:28 PM

Portugal is a possibility if English is s key factor It's one of the easier EU options with a variety of programs that seek immigrants.

Lisbon and Porto are really lovely cities where English is spoken not universally, but almost, certainly with Portuguese under 60 or 70.

Golden visa and other immigration programs have been successful to the extent that minimum real estate investments are substantially higher in a few high population areas, and loser in more sparsely populated regions (where an older population may mean fewer English speakers.) Housing costs have risen dramatically as a result as well, though compared to NYC the quality of housing is much greater and prices lower.

It is a country where programs are simple and straightforward, and a country that makes it fairly quick and simple to access their health care system. Residency is easy, evidence of self-supporting income levels are low (€1300/month or so), and with an easy path to citizenship.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 54June 25, 2022 7:31 PM

A friend's relative died in Ireland. That place takes FOREVER to get anything done. It's been 6 months and he still hasn't received any monies from his dead relative, who left him something in his will. If you think USA govt is bad and slow and inefficient etc...Ireland is even worse. It rains all the time in that country and yet they charge residents for water. They don't know how to harvest rain etc.

by Anonymousreply 55June 25, 2022 7:39 PM

The ignorance on display in this thread is staggering. But not at all surprising.

by Anonymousreply 56June 25, 2022 7:42 PM

USA isn't so bad. we still have a lot of rights. You can sue whoever the fuck you want and maybe even win. You can't do that in other countries. some are quite corrupt and you might just "disappear" if you piss off the wrong people.

by Anonymousreply 57June 25, 2022 7:45 PM

Well, I would definitely avoid countries where they disappear you.

by Anonymousreply 58June 25, 2022 7:49 PM

Wow R57 - you’re very well-informed, aren’t you?

by Anonymousreply 59June 25, 2022 7:50 PM

Aspirants to Canadian citizenship/residency: Canada leaves a lot to be desired. I've lived there and in the US, and overall very much prefer the US. But I've also lived in Australia and Cyprus, and prefer both to the US, although Cyprus has some rough edges still.

by Anonymousreply 60June 25, 2022 7:53 PM

R60 Cyprus seems pretty fascinating. All of that old Mediterranean architecture and history...

by Anonymousreply 61June 25, 2022 7:55 PM

I know several upper middle class people that have retired in Portugal over the last 10 years. I can’t remember exact details, but I think they will take anyone with enough money. $500k sticks out in my mind. I can’t remember if you have to buy a property for that amount or if you just have to have that in assets. My cousin moved to New Zealand with her husband a couple of years ago. He is a teacher. If you are in teaching or healthcare, you will have an easier time getting residency in other countries. I believe that Canada will take healthcare workers as well. Costa Rica will take Americans, and is relatively safe. You actually have quite a few options, if you have savings.

by Anonymousreply 62June 25, 2022 8:02 PM

A question for the 62 respondents and OP - how many of you actually have passports and have visited other countries?

by Anonymousreply 63June 25, 2022 8:04 PM

if you have money. you can definitely buy many passports. S. Africa is one of them.

by Anonymousreply 64June 25, 2022 8:07 PM

Costa Rica. Check it out.

by Anonymousreply 65June 25, 2022 8:07 PM

Completely unlivable? Puleaze. Maybe try two weeks in Togo, or Peru, or Haiti -- or ANY poor country and you'll see -- despite the crap we're dealing with -- that we're far more fortunate that most countries.

No matter who's in office.

by Anonymousreply 66June 25, 2022 8:12 PM

R63, if that's meant to be a serious question, yes, of course, I have a passport, and I've travelled to Europe several times, and Asia, as well as South America.

by Anonymousreply 67June 25, 2022 8:14 PM

You are all hysterical cows. It’s going to go downhill everywhere, be happy that you can live in the US.

by Anonymousreply 68June 25, 2022 8:15 PM

Stay, fight, and support the righteous.

Cowards flee.

by Anonymousreply 69June 25, 2022 8:16 PM

Oh, yes, R68, it's such a dream. Just don't have an accident and run afoul of your health insurance and end up owing $125,000 that your insurance won't cover. The American Dream.

by Anonymousreply 70June 25, 2022 8:17 PM

The issue is being able to work in that other country.

Nearly anyone who is retired can get a visa to live in almost any country you want (normal, first world countries) as long as you have money coming in from somewhere else--either you are tele-employed (in America) or have retirement/pension.

What is hard is getting a worker's permit (unless you work for an American company that will go through the paperwork of proving they cannot find a native with the qualifications to do that job).

Also, you didn't mention your line of work, but certain types of workers (medical especially) will be more easily give a worker's permit.

by Anonymousreply 71June 25, 2022 8:17 PM

Just look at the millions who walked on foot for hundreds of miles...at the southern border...they are dying to come to USA! It's not so bad!

by Anonymousreply 72June 25, 2022 8:20 PM

R70, if you think socialized medicine will solve your issue, then move to Canada. But be prepared to wait 3+ MONTHS to get in, regardless of the urgency of your problem, especially if you have a chronic health condition.

by Anonymousreply 73June 25, 2022 8:20 PM

Canada

by Anonymousreply 74June 25, 2022 8:20 PM

Any thoughts on Vancouver?

by Anonymousreply 75June 25, 2022 8:21 PM

r61 yes Cyprus is great in many ways, but as mentioned, still rough around the edges in some ways (e.g., lot of Russian mob activity; some areas/towns are pretty run-down; it's a magnet for fat Euro beach tourists). But many parts of the country are beautiful, Cypriots themselves are generally very friendly, English is wide-spread, and cost of living is reasonable.

by Anonymousreply 76June 25, 2022 8:29 PM

If any of you are strident minimalists, I might be able to help. Recently, a 'tenant' (for lack of a safer, I mean, 'better' word) departed, and I now have an empty cage, I mean 'room', and it's absolutely FREE! No cell phone, internet, or food or water bills for example. (I'm in charge of everything and I take total control of those pesky little problems. You just listem to me, and I'll make sure no one can hear you scream, I mean, no one will bother you. Forget the scream part, the phone mistook some voice on TV as me. Can you believe it? What are the odds? Crazy, right?)

Annnywaaaay...remember everyone: Your own cage, er, room, no rent or any charges at all. I just need alittle info about your income and bank accounts. That's normal procedure; right? And don't worry about a forwarding address before you arrive. Just give me a list of contacts, and I'll control everything.

Put yourself in my hands, friends. Trust is a beautiful thing.

Also, just a helpful reminder for everyone: Be sure to moisturize daily by putting the lotion on its', I mean, 'your' skin.

by Anonymousreply 77June 25, 2022 8:48 PM

[quote]A question for the 62 respondents and OP - how many of you actually have passports and have visited other countries?

Three passports, two from EU countries and one from the U.S. I've traveled to about 30 countries and 40 U S. states.

The U.S. is where I was born and lived most of my life, but it's the passport I would part with first.

Even someone with a modest Social Security income and a little cash could emigrate to some quite respectable countries with modcons and all that. That someone would bother to make it happen is the bigger question than the mere possibility. And that someone would move ti a new country because he wanted to live there, not foremost because he wanted to escape the U.S. gives a glimpse of his possible success in adapting. Some people taking to changing countries, for others it's a world of worry and hand wringing and s half hearted view to one's possible happiness. You can see a lot of that on this thread.

by Anonymousreply 78June 25, 2022 9:09 PM

Costa Rica is quite expensive now. I was looking at homes that were all in the $200-400K range, which is typical for homes in lovely communities full of expats.

Likewise, a condo in PV that is nice will cost at least $250 K.

Everywhere nice is now expensive. There is no cheap place to hide out that is safe, lovely without high crime.

by Anonymousreply 79June 25, 2022 9:48 PM

Californians are moving to Portugal and the Portugese haaaaate it.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 80June 25, 2022 10:01 PM

[quote] A question for the 62 respondents and OP - how many of you actually have passports and have visited other countries?

I have a passport, and have been to Canada and Mexico - alas, not yet to Europe, though my partner lived there until recently.

I did seriously look into relocation to Canada in 2000 - not because of Bush's election, but because I was in a relationship. I was two points shy at the time re: the point system. I got very acquainted with how immigration works there, and know several couples where one part of the couple has immigrated from the US.

I worked for a bank for several years in international funds, so I knew about FACTA (and other fun stuff along those lines).

by Anonymousreply 81June 25, 2022 10:05 PM

I am currently researching the immigration policies of Australia and New Zealand.

by Anonymousreply 82June 25, 2022 10:24 PM

I used to get recruitment emails all the time from Australia and N Zealand, including offers to get fast tracked citizenship. A lot of the N Zealand jobs involved working in Maori communities, which have very high rates of intrafamilial violence/sexual assault/alcoholism. I passed on that.

My advice - get a MD and you can go anywhere.

by Anonymousreply 83June 25, 2022 10:29 PM

Your mother is a leech r40 and so are people like her. That loophole is why it is going broke. It needs to be closed.

by Anonymousreply 84June 25, 2022 10:40 PM

So the mother could collect SS as a stay home mom for 10 years? I thought you had to work for 10 years?

by Anonymousreply 85June 25, 2022 11:00 PM

If I had to, I would move to Mexico - it’s close, there are enough Americans already there to guide me a bit, the people and history are lovely and the food is divine. I’m used to the climate, having lived most of my life in TX, so I imagine it would be somewhat seamless.

by Anonymousreply 86June 25, 2022 11:18 PM

If you want to emigrate to NZ, getting a healthcare qualification is the way to go. If you don't fit into one of our needed vocations, then you will have to rely on marriage or just being insanely wealthy and investing in local industry.

Be aware though that the average house price in NZ is over a million dollars.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 87June 25, 2022 11:59 PM

I lived in Thailand for 5 years on a tourist visa where I exited the country every 3 months and coming back and starting all over again. I have had a friend who has been doing the same in India for over 20 years. Most people are looking for a little more stability but in case you are not that is a possibility. If you are over 50 years old many places offer a retirement visa. Most of these places would be considered second tier by DL but if you are up for a poorer place there is many to go to.

by Anonymousreply 88June 26, 2022 12:34 AM

r84 I don't disagree, actually.

by Anonymousreply 89June 26, 2022 12:55 AM

r85 being a stay-at-home mom counts, apparently.

by Anonymousreply 90June 26, 2022 12:56 AM

If she was married to a person working she would qualify.

by Anonymousreply 91June 26, 2022 1:27 AM

There is no place in the United States to go...It is no longer "survival of the fittest" but "survivor of the richest".....Can you imagine 20 years ago TAXPAYERS picking up the check for rich peoples EV stations?...That the richest people in the country would pay ZERO dollars in taxes?...The politicians sold out. ALL of them.

by Anonymousreply 92June 26, 2022 4:16 AM

R32 Yeah our “backwards cow-fucking fundamentalists”are less likely to have guns and a superiority complex. The American version you speak of should more accurately be compared to the Taliban.

by Anonymousreply 93June 26, 2022 5:56 AM

Midwest

by Anonymousreply 94June 26, 2022 5:57 AM

Maybe Japan will offer incentives for young, professional American expats to support their aging population.

by Anonymousreply 95June 26, 2022 6:00 AM

We are thinking of Mexico.

Can a woman of modest means , who speaks some Spanish, survive there?

by Anonymousreply 96June 26, 2022 6:03 AM

Those who move for love with a partner are the luckiest. You don't have to be on the run. You face the discomforts of a new country together with someone you love.

But this is OT, sorry, but do any of you know any cases like this?

by Anonymousreply 97June 26, 2022 7:17 AM

If you have plenty of money, the world is your oyster. If you're poor, you might try Mexico.

by Anonymousreply 98June 26, 2022 7:37 AM

R4 they are not OP.

by Anonymousreply 99June 26, 2022 7:41 AM

R46, there isn't a job shortage in the U.K., we have a labour shortage. I've got multiple vacancies I've not been able to fill in many months because demand and competition for staff is so high!

I posted the attached link in the other, similar thread, in case anyone finds it useful.

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by Anonymousreply 100June 26, 2022 8:16 AM

[quote]If you have plenty of money, the world is your oyster. If you're poor, you might try Mexico.

Not really.

If you want to go to another country and find a job, it is a difficult in most places.

If you want to waltz in and buy citizenship (as opposed to a resident permit through which in time you might acquire citizenship), you need some money. Mexico has a permanent residency program for about $100,000, and a golden visa program for about $200,000. In Malta the spread is wider: €100,000 for permanent residency, and €600,000 for a golden visa. Those are not the only routes for either country, they are just the "make it easy with money" routes.

If you want to retire or can live on income from elsewhere, there are many possibilities.

Evidence of a long term income stream of $1000 in Costa Rica, $1500 in France, $2000 in Thailand, $2600 in Spain, $2900 in UK could get you into those countries, for example, provided you didn't seek local jobs there. These are not levels of income known only to the very rich.

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by Anonymousreply 101June 26, 2022 8:30 AM

And Argentina's financial requirement is 260 a month. You can have Europe on a budget there.

by Anonymousreply 102June 26, 2022 4:08 PM

With all the crime in Argentina as well for that $260/month. Good luck!

"Every three minutes a crime is committed in the Province of Buenos Aires in Argentina, according to the latest data from the Buenos Aires Ministry of Security."

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by Anonymousreply 103June 26, 2022 4:18 PM

Yes r103, maybe Uvalde would be a better place for you to retire.

by Anonymousreply 104June 26, 2022 4:21 PM

R104 Good luck in Argentina. I wouldn't move to a poor, crime-ridden corrupt country with a growing organized crime problem.

Luckily I am a highly skilled immigrant and could move pretty much anywhere. I am always getting recruitment emails from Australia, N Zealand and UK, where my American credentials are considered top notch.

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by Anonymousreply 105June 26, 2022 4:25 PM

Well, smell you R105!

by Anonymousreply 106June 26, 2022 4:27 PM

R63, I think that most of us on this site are well traveled. More so than the average American citizen.

by Anonymousreply 107June 26, 2022 4:27 PM

Yes R106. Here is a typical email I get from desperate medical recruiters:

R106 Yes my 22 years of education and 4 years of training has paid off, indeed.

A typical email I receive:

Job opportunity in New Zealand Job title: Consultant Psychiatrist, General Adult Company: Accent Health Recruitment Limited Location: Taranaki

Here's a great job opportunity from Accent Health Recruitment Limited, a New Zealand recruiter whose client is serious about hiring from offshore. This could be your chance to turn your Kiwi dream into a reality - check it out.

Job overview Are you a motivated and experienced Psychiatrist? Come and join a team of 13 other Psychiatrists. You will work with a dedicated team of medical, nursing and allied health staff, primarily caring for people in an integrated setting with complex needs requiring specialist mental health services. This position will be part of the client's acute team primarily covering Acute ward – General Adult and Consult Liaison work at thehospital.

As a Consultation Liaison Psychiatrist, you will be an expert at the complex task of managing psychiatric illness in the context of the general hospital and emergency department.

The client's Mental Health & Addiction Services provides a wide range of specialist services: - Acute Services: 23 bed inpatient unit (4 beds in IPC), ABC team, home based treatment service, high and complex needs community supported rehabilitation service with 4 beds - Adult Mental health: 2 community teams, Tui Ora kaupapa Maori community mental health team and specialist services such as maternal, eating disorders, and early intervention - Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services - Mental Health Services for Older people - Alcohol and Drugs.

Organisation information The client is a large organisation comprising of 2,200 staff operating in the exciting, changing Health sector to a population of 116,600 people. The organisation offers a variety of specialisation, career pathways, training and education opportunities and a teaching secondary hospital.

by Anonymousreply 108June 26, 2022 4:31 PM

If you have the right skills the UK will welcome you but I will let you in on a secret. NEVER, ever, under any circumstances apply from the US. Go to where you want to be and apply there.

There are many non english speaking countries that welcome skilled workers and offer language classes for free.

by Anonymousreply 109June 26, 2022 4:35 PM

Be sure to add the Ugly American to your reading list before going. You sound just like one.

by Anonymousreply 110June 26, 2022 4:35 PM

Taranki seems nice. Maybe I will pursue this.

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by Anonymousreply 111June 26, 2022 4:35 PM

A friend is considering Uruguay. Another former colleague is building a home in Ecuador.

by Anonymousreply 112June 26, 2022 4:36 PM

R112 Ecuador is in chaos. I have a friend in Cuenca and it is hard to get to markets and buy food and gas right now.

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by Anonymousreply 113June 26, 2022 4:38 PM

And Nicaragua is yours for 600 a month.

by Anonymousreply 114June 26, 2022 4:46 PM

Too bad Canada doesn't want old farts. I could maybe get in with my computer skills, but I don't want to go back to work or start a business. Actually, at 65 and being from the US they wouldn't want me at all.

Kelowna, B.C. looks like a good place to live. I could still go to Palm Springs for the winter.

by Anonymousreply 115June 26, 2022 4:52 PM

[quote] Any thoughts on Vancouver?

Vancouver is absolutely beautiful and for Canada, the weather is relatively mild, but rains constantly and not a piss, but a pissing down hard rain. I've spent a bit of time there just exploring because it's an easy trip from CA. It's extremely expensive - like NYC/SF prices. It's predominantly modern high-rises, micro flats, and it's very walkable. It has a nice little gay neighborhood and I found the guys to be very nice. Like everything else, unless you have a lot of money, it's probably not an option. If you do have a lot of money, then you can do better.

One thing I have noticed having gone to graduate school in the UK and having friends who have bought their way into the US. The magic number that I continually see is around $500,000 give or take. If you have that kind of money, there are "entrepreneur" visas for the UK for example and 500K investment in a US company will buy your way into America. How that works in terms of getting all the benefits one would want if they were to leave the US (free healthcare, social safety net, etc), I'm not sure. There might be a cooling off period.

by Anonymousreply 116June 26, 2022 5:07 PM

New Zalund

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by Anonymousreply 117June 26, 2022 5:14 PM

My husband and I decided Hawaii was as close as we could get. It's far enough away from the rest of the U.S. that you can almost pretend it's a different country. And it will never be confused with Silver Dollar City.

by Anonymousreply 118June 26, 2022 6:15 PM

I would add Italy to my wish list. I know they are on the euro system and it's not as cheap as years ago but a nice countryside location with excellent train service would be ideal.

by Anonymousreply 119June 26, 2022 7:30 PM

Weren't towns in Italy selling houses for like a few hundred euros? It was some ridiculously cheap amount but you need to put in work to renovate. I think one actress actually did it. bought it and renovated it.

by Anonymousreply 120June 26, 2022 7:45 PM

If I weren't so old and hate hot weather, I would consider Thailand. Very cheap vs the dollar there. But now at my age, I would try to get into Canada. I have enough money to live off of for the rest of my life but would still need health insurance.

by Anonymousreply 121June 26, 2022 7:48 PM

Cyprus sounds like such a great idea until Erdoğan overruns it.

by Anonymousreply 122June 26, 2022 7:51 PM

R119: Italy offers freelance visas, golden visas (€250,000/500,000+), and retirement visas (among then the standard employment and family options). A retirement visa required not working taking employment in Italy and a demonstrable 8ncome of about €31,000 (€38,000 for a couple.) Citizenship is possible after 10 years of permanent residence.

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by Anonymousreply 123June 26, 2022 8:03 PM

This is why you cant move anywhere else, OP.

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by Anonymousreply 124June 27, 2022 6:00 PM

[quote]My husband and I decided Hawaii was as close as we could get. It's far enough away from the rest of the U.S. that you can almost pretend it's a different country. And it will never be confused with Silver Dollar City.

Hawaii is very expensive, almost as much as NYC. What do you guys do?

by Anonymousreply 125June 27, 2022 9:25 PM

I'm pissing myself laughing at all the starry-eyed Yanks wanting to move to NZ expecting kindly Jacinda and a progressive, educated populous. At least if you live in Kentucky and have ambition you can move to New York. We move to other countries.

How are you going to cope when the government changes next year (due to Labour's incompetent ministers and dumb decisions) to a right-wing, Ann Rand worshipping, Christian fundie, anti-worker, Peter Thiel loving National/ACT coalition? One of their MP's recently tweeted that the Roe-Wade turnover was 'a good day.'

Also, to the psych thinking about moving to Taranaki; HAHAHAHAHA!

Go for it dude. Hope you enjoy cow shit, meth, alcoholism, and rampant gang/family violence.

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by Anonymousreply 126June 27, 2022 9:54 PM

r126 is right, I've known a number of kiwis who couldn't get out of NZ fast enough (I live in a Canadian tourist town, they come here to work in large numbers, Australians too), and I talk to some others still there online regularly who feel the same.

by Anonymousreply 127June 27, 2022 10:03 PM

As we used to sing in Sunday School 🎼 Brighten the corner where you are!

by Anonymousreply 128June 27, 2022 11:16 PM

Dan will tell you where to go.

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by Anonymousreply 129June 27, 2022 11:31 PM

Newfoundland

by Anonymousreply 130June 28, 2022 1:01 AM

A lot of these countries--like Italy--that are offering you houses for a few euros require that you invest like 200,000 euro or more into making that property livable again. (In Italy, some of these "houses" are just walls. You have to basically rebuild the whole thing in a certain amount of time.)

by Anonymousreply 131June 28, 2022 1:19 AM

What country can we take over?

by Anonymousreply 132June 28, 2022 1:22 AM

I really thought it was very very hard to move to Europe as an American since unless a company sponsors you you can't get a work permit. In fact, my limited understand was it's harder to move to Mexico or Canada than it is to emigrate to the US.

That said, the posters above provided some intersting info about these "income visas" or "retirement visas," though for someone who is still in working years and has a typical job (not passive income), it still seems pretty difficult to just move to Europe.

I do know there are some places in Europe where if you invest or buy a property worth a certain amount you can get on a path to citizenship.

But other than that, unless you are a health care professional or fairly affluent with passive income, it seems like it would be very very hard for the average American to just move to the EU, Mexico, or Canada. Maybe LATAM or ASIA is different.

by Anonymousreply 133June 28, 2022 1:30 AM

In a big US city, knowing a fair number of queens with means, EVERY DAMN ONE OF THEM is not only discussing but planning to leave the US. Seemingly they have "ways" that don't involve a lot of red tape. Owning property abroad is big with them. This I can state as a firsthand fact.

by Anonymousreply 134June 28, 2022 1:30 AM

Danang in Vietnam looks pretty nice.

by Anonymousreply 135June 28, 2022 1:42 AM

[quote]Absolutely you can collect Social Security benefits outside the U.S. It's quite easy and SS explains how to do it, no subterfuge necessary. You can even collect SS after you renounce U S. citizenship, should you wish.

I'm sure a regime would never pass "laws" to deprive of your contributions if living abroad.

by Anonymousreply 136June 28, 2022 1:45 AM

The rules for investor and retirement visas continue to tighten in Canada, Europe and Australia/NZ. I believe the UK has terminated its Tier 1 Investor Visa programme ('golden visa') as of February; Australia cancelled its retirement visa scheme a few years ago. No English-speaking country wants retired Americans without deep, deep pockets.

by Anonymousreply 137June 28, 2022 1:53 AM

I am getting my Irish citizenship (due to my Irish grandparents) which will make the EU open to me. I don't have much dough so I'll need a monied spouse.

by Anonymousreply 138June 28, 2022 2:00 AM

[quote]A lot of these countries--like Italy--that are offering you houses for a few euros require that you invest like 200,000 euro or more into making that property livable again. (In Italy, some of these "houses" are just walls. You have to basically rebuild the whole thing in a certain amount of time.)

Italian towns that are selling properties for €1 have often been substantially deserted of people and of services. While the normal guide investment to turn an abandoned house into something pleasant and livable is usually more in the €30,000 to €50,000 range, the better deal is to buy a cheap house that is not just 4 stone walls and what's left of a roof.

There are tons of Italian houses under €100,000, under €50,000, even under €20,000 that are livable or even renovated to a good standard. Buying one of those eliminated having to be under construction and completely in the hands of contractors for a year or two, and you see the end result or something close to it.

There are loads of places that publish Cheap Italian Houses, or Cheap European Houses, or Cheap Spanish Houses etc

An example at €35,000 of a 4 bedroom, 3 bath house of 125 square meters (1345 square feet) with balcony and terrace in Palo do Colle. It needs a kitchen and bathroom updates and finishing, but it's a nice space and doesn't require being a construction site for two years. In the end it "costs" less than many €1 houses and you could live in it; the work it requires isn't specialty work that only one old man three villages away still does. This one is also in a village that has a few restaurants and cafes and shops/services. Yes, the €1 houses come with many caveats ad expected.

€1 houses are also sometimes sold only to people under 40, or to those who want to open a business because they are schemes to revitalize and turn the fortunes of forgotten towns.

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by Anonymousreply 139June 28, 2022 8:22 AM

SHOULD i marry my ex and get out of the country?

by Anonymousreply 140June 28, 2022 8:53 AM

[quote] You can live anywhere and still draw your Social Security.

Not when we get done destroying the SS system, not even in the US.

by Anonymousreply 141June 28, 2022 4:08 PM

I heard Ireland is quite expensive but the farmers there don't pay income tax.

by Anonymousreply 142June 28, 2022 4:13 PM

OP lives in New York (a solid blue state) and is probably a male eldergay so what exactly is the problem? Why do you want to move? Because there aren't going to be many countries that are better than New York and the ones that are are going to be complicated and expensive to move to.

by Anonymousreply 143June 28, 2022 4:19 PM

England where my great, great grandparents lived. I shall also reinstate the hyphen in my last name.

by Anonymousreply 144June 28, 2022 8:33 PM

More and more I think my ancestors were kind of dumb to leave Europe. Maybe they just should have stuck it out. But then I guess I never would have existed. Ah well.

by Anonymousreply 145June 28, 2022 9:30 PM

What about for those of us who cannot or do not want to leave the US right now? Where will we be safest as gay men (and women)? Given the way things are headed are we looking at all Blue states or only a few?

Thinking about this a lot over the past few days, as I've only got about one more major move left in me at this age.

-Sleepless in North Carolina looking for a forever home

by Anonymousreply 146June 28, 2022 10:42 PM

R146 I would imagine California, Massachusetts and New York. I would prefer California due to the climate, scenery and people ( I find a lot of East coasters have a nervous and aggressive energy that makes me uneasy). The problem with these places is the insane rent. I hate the thought that only the rich can afford to get out of red states.

by Anonymousreply 147June 28, 2022 10:45 PM

if they really ban gay marriage etc, then we can all apply for asylum to canada right?

by Anonymousreply 148June 28, 2022 10:47 PM

You still draw SS overseas but Medicare doesn't cover services outside the US. Nonetheless, while it's not obligatory, when you look at the fine print you'll probably end up shelling out about $2000/year for Part B premiums.

by Anonymousreply 149June 28, 2022 10:50 PM

R149: private health insurance 8n other countries is usually a small fraction of the cost in the U.S. (in Spain, from €60-80/month for working age and €120 for mid-60s and later, and it covers absolutely everything in full, no added expenses for anything. Having permanent residency in a.counyry for as little as a year can often qualify them for national health care. Under private insurance, any serious pre-existing conditions can be covered by government issued insurance if private options are unavailable or unaffordable.

Why bother with Medicare that isn't available outside the U.S. ? It doesn't maje sense to jet back and forth for Medicare.

by Anonymousreply 150June 29, 2022 12:30 AM

R150 Retire to Germany and mandatory health insurance will set you back in the neighborhood of $12,000/year.

Many retired expats pay for Part B starting at 65 because there's a waiting period, potentially over a year, if you apply later as well as premium penalties. You'll want Part B if you're back in the States, either on a visit or permanent return.

And forget about health travel insurance. By the time you're in your 60-70s you'll have enough preconditions to give any insuror an out.

by Anonymousreply 151June 29, 2022 2:11 AM

Did anyone here say they wanted to retire to Germany R151? I was stationed there and loved it, and I still wouldn't retire there. Too fucking cold!

by Anonymousreply 152June 29, 2022 2:15 AM

R152 Just an example to refute your glib and unresearched assumption that cheap and good health insurance will magically be available in your overseas retirement destination.

Anyway, lots of Americans do live in Germany because it is a very hospitable place; climate is no worse than much of the US. But not cheap if that's what you need.

by Anonymousreply 153June 29, 2022 2:29 AM

Why, my alternative social media reality, of course! No, wait, don't come here and back the fcuk away, OP!

by Anonymousreply 154June 29, 2022 3:07 AM

R146, what’s the issue with North Carolina? It’s on my list of maybe states.

I’m originally from California. As far as I can tell, I’m priced out of anywhere that has water. There are certain areas of California that get a lot of their water from snowpack. This year there’s almost no snowpack. Other areas get a lot of their water from the Colorado River which is almost dry. I’m in the Southwest, another area that depends on the Colorado River. Utah, California, Nevada, Arizona, Colorado, and parts of New Mexico all get water from the Colorado. They are all going to run out. They are all in severe drought.

I’m also at the age where I have one more move in me, but moving to a dry area seems foolish because ten years down the road, people are going to be flooding out of those areas. Maybe a lot sooner in some cases. I keep hoping California will get moving on their water situation, but some areas are just bone dry.

I’m wondering what happens when all the water ends up in red states and the western blue states dry out.

by Anonymousreply 155June 29, 2022 4:37 AM

If you live outside of the U.S. you can have Social Security but not Medicare. And when you're over 65-70 things start to break down and you will need it more than anything.

by Anonymousreply 156June 29, 2022 4:51 AM

I have a big heart and thought I could adopt some American gays, cause I feel sorry for you guys. If you are young, handsome, slim, tall, blonde with beautiful face we can make a deal. I am on Balkans, but still better than US.

by Anonymousreply 157June 29, 2022 7:24 AM

whatever you do don't come to Portugal. it's much worse than the US.

by Anonymousreply 158June 29, 2022 7:45 AM

R157 If you've got the right heritage, both Serbia and Croatia offer citizenship.

by Anonymousreply 159June 29, 2022 9:37 AM

Much worse, how, R158

by Anonymousreply 160June 29, 2022 10:23 AM

JFC another Debbie Downer, the US is circling the drain post. We have like two a day now.

Anywhere, bitch. Start a Go Fund Me, I'll contribute.

Just leave.

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by Anonymousreply 161June 29, 2022 10:37 AM

What exactly are you running from?

If it's the total collapse of the US, you won't be able to escape the very serious consequences of that anywhere; be they economic, political and military.

Australia and NZ might seem far from everything to you, but if the US is gone or otherwise occupied, it's a certainty that China will move in and dominate those two countries, perhaps by military invasion. Australia and NZ only exist in peace because they are protected by the US. Without that protection they are two wealthy and resource rich countries with no means of self defence against their much larger and resource hungry neighbours.

Europe is more complex. Many countries have their own nukes and can defend themselves if the US goes. But like Canada and Mexico, Europe is vulnerable to economic collapse, as is the whole world, if the US completely implodes.

Never rule out staying where you are and fighting to defend yourself if things so sour. It could be the smarter option.

by Anonymousreply 162June 29, 2022 10:38 AM

Be careful what you wish for.

by Anonymousreply 163June 29, 2022 10:45 AM

Considering that China is the next superpower, and many young people are learning mandarin, isn’t there anyone who wants to move to China? Granted most here are post retirement and are thinking of Sunny Climes where they can drool away their life, Shirley there must be some young uns who still have some life in them and dream dreams?

by Anonymousreply 164June 29, 2022 10:46 AM

You're not safe in China even if you're rich, famous and beautiful. Just ask Fan Bingbing.

The slow implosion of the U.S. is one reason why I wanted the U.K. to stay in the E.U., as it's the only other counterweight big enough to stand up to China.

However, we'll always be European, so maybe the lack of E.U. membership isn't the weakness I feared. I'm sure we'd act together, like we did with Ukraine, if everything came to a head.

by Anonymousreply 165June 29, 2022 10:53 AM

[quote] I'm sure we'd act together, like we did with Ukraine,

Oh my sides 😂

by Anonymousreply 166June 29, 2022 11:01 AM

Try Russia.

by Anonymousreply 167June 29, 2022 11:07 AM

R162 "Europe is more complex. Many countries have their own nukes and can defend themselves if the US goes."

Such nonsense. The only EU nuclear power is France.

From a guy pontificating here like he knows something.

by Anonymousreply 168June 29, 2022 11:35 AM

^ Listen, fuckface! You really think the US is going to collect them all up as their country impodes into civil war? Don't be so fucking stupid.

by Anonymousreply 169June 29, 2022 12:00 PM

R126 is right. New Zealand has big problems a’brewing. The maori and Pacific Islander underclass is growing by the day and it’s becoming more desocialised, more angry, and violent. This isn’t a story that the press likes to report, but I can see huge problems coming down the wire in another dacade or so. There’s whole generations of simmering angry youth with a grudge against everything and upcoming maori politicians who fuel their belief they should grab it. The idiotic Jacinta will soon be gone and the left will have to engage in ever greater appeasement of maori demands, while the ghastly right — supported by new asian and indian immigrants, will do what they usially do.

by Anonymousreply 170June 29, 2022 12:51 PM

If you're entitled to an Irish passport, not only can you live in Ireland and the rest of the EU, but the UK as well.

by Anonymousreply 171June 29, 2022 1:05 PM

R164, omg you are so fucking stupid, you want to move to China?! please go ahead!!!

China is a million times worse than USA...it would take forever to list the reasons. Just look at human rights, horrible air pollution, censorship, no freedom.

by Anonymousreply 172June 29, 2022 1:17 PM

The best thing you guys could do is travel a bit over the next 12 months and find out what the rest of the world is actually like, because if it's Trump 2024 you might not have much time to formulate a plan and get out.

Yes, there are ultra-conservative sentiments on the rise in a lot of countries, but there's nowhere else in the first world that looks like it's ready to have an internal coup and install a dictator. China won't be a million times worse than the USA if that happens.

by Anonymousreply 173June 29, 2022 2:17 PM

And what about the people who cannot travel around the world for 12 months?

by Anonymousreply 174June 29, 2022 2:18 PM

Those of you who think China is a better place to live than USA must be retarded or just trolling LOL.

Please go ahead...call me when you're in jail over there.

by Anonymousreply 175June 29, 2022 2:21 PM

This answer will vary by individual. If you work for a large multinational company you might be able to just ask for a transfer to another country. If you can apply for citizenship through an ancestor that's another route, but it takes time and money.

Very few of us can just up and move to another country. It requires money just to make the move, and no country is going to take you if you can't prove that you either have the means to fund yourself or the capacity to earn an income.

by Anonymousreply 176June 29, 2022 2:26 PM

R175 maybe China WILL be a better place than the US in the coming 4-8 years under discussion. Not to say that’s going to be saying much.

I mean, look at the way things are rapidly going down the shitter. A woman’s life probably faces greater danger here than there as of 2022. What then in 2030?

Even if trump doesn’t come back in 2024, any Con man or woman who succeeds him as the next Con president will have to outdo Trump to keep his base. Won’t they?

You know every Con President is worse than the previous one. Remember what we were all thinking when Dubya was in power? That it couldn’t possibly get worse? Heck, we gave a Nobel to Obama even before he started his job. That was how relieved we all were.

Ah, memories.

by Anonymousreply 177June 29, 2022 2:55 PM

R177 you are delusional and anti-American if you think China is a better place to live but for a privileged upper class, and even they have no freedom of speech at all.

by Anonymousreply 178June 29, 2022 2:58 PM

[quote] if you think China is a better place

Not IS, but MAYBE. The way things are going here.

by Anonymousreply 179June 29, 2022 3:01 PM

[quote]A question for the 62 respondents and OP - how many of you actually have passports and have visited other countries?

I've been to Italy, Scotland, Ireland, New Zealand, Australia and South Korea.

by Anonymousreply 180June 29, 2022 3:05 PM

[quote] Can a woman of modest means , who speaks some Spanish, survive there?

La Pissalina Dottley is as modest a woman as can be and she survives on a few pesos and the kindness of strangers.

by Anonymousreply 181June 29, 2022 3:06 PM

Fight where you stand.

by Anonymousreply 182June 29, 2022 3:37 PM

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

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by Anonymousreply 183June 29, 2022 3:37 PM

Marry a Canadian. Simple.

by Anonymousreply 184June 29, 2022 3:42 PM

Sure, if you want to be sent to prison for life for accidentally misgendering someone.

by Anonymousreply 185June 29, 2022 3:50 PM

China is a filthy, *filthy* shithole. Don't take my word for it, go see for yourself.

by Anonymousreply 186June 29, 2022 5:17 PM

I know it's very expensive, but one does receive a lot of free services from the government..mainly the Scandinavian countries, Denmark, Norway and Sweden

by Anonymousreply 187June 29, 2022 6:55 PM

Lake Cuomo

by Anonymousreply 188June 29, 2022 7:00 PM

There are plenty of medium sized cities in the EU to choose from: Valencia, Bologna, Oporto, Lyons, Leipzig, Ljubljana, etc. All gay friendly, relatively affordable and interesting places.

by Anonymousreply 189June 29, 2022 7:02 PM

what languages are you fluent in OP?

by Anonymousreply 190June 29, 2022 7:04 PM

So is San Francisco. Go see for yourself.

But seriously, here's the thing r186. OP is talking about 4-8 years from now. Not today. Are you always this obtuse? Refrain from a knee jerk 'murrica flag waving for once.

Now follow me closely. China is a horrible place. It has an authoritarian society. No civil liberties, let's say

But so is the US if you've been following what's going on. It's getting worse by the day. Our civil liberties are hemorrhaging. Soon the church here will be like the communist party in China.

So in 4-8 years? Where will we be? Where will YOU be?

But you do you r186. Knock yourself out with that 'murrica #1 thing.

by Anonymousreply 191June 30, 2022 12:52 AM

[quote]Marry a Canadian. Simple.

Canadians are supposed to be really nice. So marrying a Dler... well, maybe opposites attract...

by Anonymousreply 192June 30, 2022 12:58 AM

I really wish I had left when I was young.

by Anonymousreply 193June 30, 2022 1:08 AM

Sit down. You're not going anywhere.

by Anonymousreply 194June 30, 2022 1:13 AM

They'll pass a law denying social security to ex-patriates, arguing it's for real Americans.

by Anonymousreply 195June 30, 2022 1:16 AM

OP remember Whoopi, Rosie and all those who said if Trump was elected, they would leave the country?

by Anonymousreply 196June 30, 2022 1:24 AM

OP Why wait? There's no time like the present. Leave before It's too late! Do you wanna wind up dead in an 18-Wheeler?

by Anonymousreply 197June 30, 2022 1:36 AM

[quote]I know it's very expensive, but one does receive a lot of free services from the government..mainly the Scandinavian countries, Denmark, Norway and Sweden

They are very beautiful, but how do you Expect to get citizenship/residency there?

by Anonymousreply 198June 30, 2022 1:41 AM

This thread is exactly like the one in Datalounge Guatemala about moving to the US! How uncanny!

by Anonymousreply 199July 1, 2022 12:20 AM

And the Supreme Court is just startin r186 so where will we be in 4-8 years?

After its ruling on abortion, gun-licensing lawd, religious schools, public-school employees prayer, congressional election boundaries, fossil fuels...

"The next targets could include voting rights, state courts’ power over elections, affirmative action and laws banning discrimination against LGBTQ people."

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by Anonymousreply 200July 1, 2022 5:16 AM

You all are such drama queens and I bet many haven't even left the US. Wherever you go, there you. You'll still be glued to CNN and DL but from your lazyboy in an unfamiliar and most life less hospitable country.

by Anonymousreply 201July 1, 2022 6:24 AM

R193, same. I gave thought to leaving when St. Ronnie was elected. I wish I'd followed my gut instinct and done everything I could to relocate in my early 20s.

by Anonymousreply 202July 1, 2022 6:49 AM

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

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by Anonymousreply 203July 1, 2022 7:12 AM

Moving to another country doesn’t even begin to solve your problems. And it’s so funny how Americans want to flee to Europe, where there’s war raging in Ukraine, and one brewing in Bosnia. Despite all the hyperbolic rhetoric about civil war in the US, Europe has been, is, and always will be a tinder box that can go up in flames at any moment.

I’m an American in Europe and recent events haven’t made me feel grateful. I continue to worry about the state of things and try and do what I can to help (donating money, voting absentee, etc). The fact of the matter is, if America to descends into chaos, it’s going to drag the rest of the world down with it. Also, existing in Europe is fine, but it’s hard to live over here.

I’m in Europe for work, and would ride out the remaining years on my visa if living in the US became untenable. However, if forced to claim refugee status I would head to South America or Australia.

by Anonymousreply 204July 1, 2022 7:14 AM

[quote]Fact is, there are zillions of places in the US where you can feel safe and secure, and create a little haven, without running off to countries you nothing about. It's a fantasy! And the fact is, much of the US is breathtakingly cheap compared to other countries, which come with their own set of problems.

It's a fantasy for many, of course. Many people will fret and fuss, but a serious intention is indeed miles removed from "I wish I could."

Some are tied by family or health concerns or work or other commitments to where they live. Or they simply can't afford travel or starting over or the financial requirements of residency or citizenship in another country even at the lowest level.

Some will go only so far as to explore the option, a bit, in their heads, cherry-picking in Datalounge threads, listening to the story of a cousin of a colleague who retired to Mexico and hated it.

Some will investigate, looking at spreadsheets, analyzing tax rates and costs of living and everything bottom line except what it really means to make a successful move to another place. Maybe it's not as cost-effective as they wished, or they don't know how to quantify unknowns.

Most will express trepidation about leaving. "There's no place like home" is ingrained in Americans (count the times in this thread, for example.) The State Department warns Americans accustomed to near daily school shootings and to a mother shot dead pushing a baby stroller on an Upper East Side street to stay the hell home. Danger lurks in foreign countries, even the most impossibly safe of them: terrorist acts against Americans (as yet unrecorded act of terrorism directed against Americans —but they might happen), sudden government unrest and disorder, theft, bodily harm, duplicitous and highly complex schemes. Americans are taught that other countries are dangerous, primitive, and a threat — since all the world wants to be Americans and steal their freedoms, no?

For a thousand reasons, most Americans who muse momentarily about changing countries will never do it. "The fact is" that "it's a fantasy" for many, not everyone. To move outside the U.S. isn't impossible or hideously expensive. It doesn't mean that only shithole countries that you wouldn't want to live in would let you live there. It doesn't mean that you have to renounce your U.S. citizenship. It doesn't mean you have to buy your way in as a millionaire or employment qualifications in certain qualified labor shortage areas.

The U.S. is not "breathtakingly cheap" compared to all or even many other countries to which Americans emigrate, with or without allowance for differing standards of measure regrading housing and city density, car ownership, means of transportation, costs of health care, education, taxation, food and daily living expenses. Broadly, Americans make more money than many other countries but they spend much more as well, they have less free time from their work and in their personal lives, they have limited family and social circles, they are accustomed to very different levels of violence and to more compressed levels of affluence with far fewer people falling through the cracks to live on the streets.

You can pretend that everything is so much cheaper in the U.S. because gas prices are cheaper than in Europe, but it doesn't work out if you need a car to fill with cheap(er) gas to buy toilet paper to wipe your ass or to buy or to do anything at all. Is it really cheaper if you have to scramble to get a promotion and a raise to make an even bigger salary to have to buy a better car or a better house, to assume more deb, to send your kids to a better school, to work longer hours, to take fewer of your scant vacation days, and to see your family at Thanksgiving and your friends to wave at from a distance, shouting as you rush off, "we have to get together!" but you never do.

by Anonymousreply 205July 1, 2022 11:46 AM

OP - Save yourself all the existential angst and just kill yourself now. You sound unbearable.

by Anonymousreply 206July 1, 2022 12:11 PM

You say it's safe now.

Suppose the Supreme Court invalidates your marriage? Suppose it hands carte blanche to the states to run elections as they please and there's never a Democratic majority again?

You either actually contemplate the worst or and think it through, or if it does swamp you - and it might - wind up like any number of times throughout history when a population's only refuge is well we didn't think this would happen.

Fortunately, nobody will live all that long while the new Republican regime allows the planet to destroy the lot of us.

by Anonymousreply 207July 1, 2022 2:15 PM

No where is safe. Stay and fight like hell. There are more of us than there are of them. They are the minority. But they get inside people's heads. Convince people that they ae "disappointed, discouraged, dissatisfied, doubtful..." The try to divide us, and exploit fear and rage. It works. We have to wise up and stop them. right now evey single commercial the Republicans are pushing is about Biden.

Well Biden isn't on the ballot. in 2022. The House and the Senate are. Do you want to see McConnell and Mc Carthy take over? And we need to focus on our state govenment. The state Legislatures. The Governors. Because the Extremists have a grand plan and they are all part of it. We will never be able to say they did what they did in stealth. They are right on our faces with it. We can't afford to be stupid. We don't have the luxury of pouting and complaining. So put on your big boy pants and put all those muscles you gained from going to the gym to work. Be Relentelss. Fight like a Republican.

by Anonymousreply 208July 1, 2022 2:25 PM

nowhere is safe, the US is still the largest economy in the world so her reach is far and wide

by Anonymousreply 209July 1, 2022 2:27 PM

I've really had enough of the "don't worry" whores. My sponge is full and I can't take a word more from any of them.

They all told us eh, don't worry, Trump will NEVER be elected. Never! Are you kidding? Hilarious! Except....he was.

They all said Trump would be an ineffective president. A reality show host! A hotel mogul! Hilarious! Except....his minions did a lot of damage and seated three SCOTUS judges.

They all said no way will Roe be overturned. No way! It's established precedence! You worry too much! Hilarious! Except....THE VERY FIRST FUCKING SECOND THEY ABSOLUTELY COULD DO IT, THEY FUCKING OVERTURNED FUCKING ROE VS FUCKING WADE. THE. FIRST. FUCKING. SECOND. THEY. COULD.

So I don't really want to fucking hear about how Obergfell will never fall, or how safe I am in a country where Proud Boys are gathering outside of gay establishments on a daily basis and the police aren't lifting a fucking finger to stop them. I don't want to hear about how we're overreacting, when I know before the end of 2022 we'll hear about a confrontation where the Proud Boys or their ilk are the aggressors, and yet the police will arrest/beat/shoot the gay men/women or the drag queens.

Save that shit for someone who believes it or needs to be coddled. As the divine Miss Dusty Springfield would say, I don't want to hear it any more.

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by Anonymousreply 210July 1, 2022 7:31 PM

[quote]Also, existing in Europe is fine, but it’s hard to live over here.

Could you expand on this? Where in Europe? In what way is it hard to live over there?

I turned down a job offer in 1988 to work out of Bavaria where I would be traveling around five different countries doing computer consulting. I had just met my future spouse six months before and didn't want to jeopardize the relationship.

I think I would love Berlin.

We are 65 years old now. The elder years aren't the best of time to relocate to a different culture. I wish we could get into Canada.

by Anonymousreply 211July 1, 2022 7:41 PM

R207 you're not wrong. I guess I just feel like we need to fight like helll to stop them. If we fail, I'm out of here. The good thing is that we will know befoe 2024. I',m hoping for the best, but yes, we need to prepare for the worst.

by Anonymousreply 212July 1, 2022 7:41 PM

All you stressed Marys need to turn Republican. They seem to have no doubts about the bright future ahead. No climate change, no swamping immigration, pots of money for the deserving, and a hell plague on the rest. What's not to love? Don your bright cheery red rayon MAGA hat now and feel all that 'what might be' worry and stress just seeping away! The truism says that the secret of gay happiness is possessing two out of the following three: stupidity, beauty, or a big dick. This will at least give you the first.

by Anonymousreply 213July 1, 2022 8:03 PM

Elon Musk will send you to Mars.

by Anonymousreply 214July 1, 2022 8:23 PM

The GOP has been very open about their intent to abolish Social Security and Medicare ever since it came into being. So anyone thinking they can count on those programs, whether living in the US or overseas, had better think again.

They've learned that they can do anything - ANY THING - that will immensely harm their base, and their base will keep voting for them anyway. So nothing's going to stop them now.

by Anonymousreply 215July 1, 2022 8:30 PM

If I were American, id move to Seattle. Close enough to cross the border to Canada when shit hits the fan

by Anonymousreply 216July 1, 2022 8:36 PM

From what I've been told by Irish friends, the Dublin metro area makes Los Angeles & San Francisco look cheap & affordable by comparison. Literally, a shitty, tiny postwar semi-detached house on a dirt road near its outermost semi-suburban-semi-farmland fringe that needs MAJOR work costs about 300-400k Euros. A small condo within a few blocks of rapid transit starts around 600k, and a "unicorn" (townhouse or semi-detached house within walking distance of major transit & private deeded parking) starts around a million & goes up rapidly.

Sure, property is cheaper in rural areas... but do you *really* want to have die-hard Catholics (Republic), fire-breathing Evangelicals (*)(Northern Ireland), or both as your local elected officials? Hating gays is the one thing they both *agree* on.

---

(*) Contrary to popular American misconception, most of the "protestants" in NI aren't wooly Anglicans, they're fire-breathing Evangelicals who live in NI because their ancestors were kicked out of England & Scotland for being... well... annoying fundies who pissed everyone off.

by Anonymousreply 217July 1, 2022 9:01 PM

All political parties in the Republic and the majority of parties in the North support gay rights. Unfortunately the ones that don't have a lot of clout.

by Anonymousreply 218July 1, 2022 9:04 PM

[quote] If I were American, id move to Seattle. Close enough to cross the border to Canada when shit hits the fan

Oh honey, no. Canada wouldn't have you. Come to think of it, neither would the U.S. Maybe you can sneak through the Mexican border.

by Anonymousreply 219July 1, 2022 9:11 PM

R217 Property prices in Dublin are indeed shocking now, at least in the more desireable areas. Way too much tech money splashing round, lots of sketchy unregulated foreign investment, and insufficient homes being built. Dublin City Centre is basically become an American tech colony.

by Anonymousreply 220July 1, 2022 9:14 PM

Very lucky. Moved to Europe in 2006 with my husband who is Belgian. Moved here for love because the US was not an option for us at the time. Great job, healthcare etc., and not relying on my SS benefits from the US when I retire in 7-10 years. Still visit the US once a year to see my family and friends but not connected to the daily events that happen there. It is very refreshing to see the world from a different perspective outside of the enormous bubble that surrounds the US. No plans or desire to return especially now given the current circumstances.

by Anonymousreply 221July 1, 2022 9:48 PM

I can get my EU citizenship through an ancestor. It's not a pipe dream for all of us, some of us have a way out and we're taking it. This country is fucked. Bunch of religious psychos declaring war on women and gays. I'm out.

by Anonymousreply 222July 2, 2022 12:48 AM

Now do you anti immigration people understand why some people leave the homeland they love?

by Anonymousreply 223July 2, 2022 12:51 AM

Like someone mentioned in this thread. seems like some govts in the EU and elsewhere are also tilting right winged...they may be turning against the gays as well, who knows?

by Anonymousreply 224July 2, 2022 1:05 AM

R224 this is very true. If you'e considering a move overseas, then start paying attention to their politics, government, laws and social climate. And do go on vacation to at least see the damned place. In fact if you could spend a month or two overseas do it.

by Anonymousreply 225July 2, 2022 1:19 AM

R206, I was nothing but clear when I said I know a lot of the fear seems silly, but was looking for what people thought in terms of options, because things WILL get worse. That makes me sound unbearable? And there was no existential angst, either. But thanks for the advice to kill myself. Now go fuck yourself, asshole.

by Anonymousreply 226July 2, 2022 1:38 AM

Great, R161. Give me a million dollars and I'll leave. Just to get away from you, cunt.

by Anonymousreply 227July 2, 2022 1:41 AM

Would any of you not just move but go completely off the grid somewhere? And where would that be?

by Anonymousreply 228July 2, 2022 1:52 AM

[quote]I can get my EU citizenship through an ancestor. It's not a pipe dream for all of us,

R222, just my advice that if you intend to do this, there is no time like the present. Setting aside for a moment the.problems of the U.S., citizenship by ancestry is.often a slow process. For me it was the better.part of two years to assemble the application (relatively swift) and supporting evidence and to receive approval (not swift, and little way of verifying the status of an application unless you befriend someone at the embassy charged with reviewing your application.). There is no opportunity to hurry along a process which hinges on availability of embassy staff and shifting priorities. The process can be seriously disrupted or delayed by a pandemic or even a modest "surge" in applications.

by Anonymousreply 229July 2, 2022 1:59 AM

^ Plus imagine the stampede if the Republicans take control.

by Anonymousreply 230July 2, 2022 2:07 AM

Doubtful, R230.

by Anonymousreply 231July 2, 2022 2:12 AM

Doubtful how?

by Anonymousreply 232July 2, 2022 2:13 AM

Republicans have taken over before, R232. Granted, I know we're talking about extremists taking it to another level and making it worse, but don't expect an avalanche of people leaving like the Holocaust.

by Anonymousreply 233July 2, 2022 2:15 AM

You have no way of knowing that, R233. They will likely make honest outcomes from voting impossible. Would you stay in a country that invalidated your marriage?

by Anonymousreply 234July 2, 2022 2:18 AM

R229 And name changes or misspellings in your document chain can be a huge problem.

by Anonymousreply 235July 2, 2022 2:39 AM

R234, it will take a lot more than that for a an exodus of people to move to another country. By federal law, marriages that have already been validated can't be invalidated.

by Anonymousreply 236July 2, 2022 2:55 AM

There is this place in Guiana, Jonestown or sumthing….

by Anonymousreply 237July 2, 2022 2:57 AM

My friend and her husband are in Panama City as we speak. 3 weeks of checking it out with brokers, looking to escape. She’s been there for a week and texted me for the first time this afternoon to let me know how awful it is there: no green, no parks, no music, no art. Spanish is an absolute must-speak.

by Anonymousreply 238July 2, 2022 3:06 AM

If the Doj fails to indict Trump, r224 you can be sure many more countries will follow the us example.

by Anonymousreply 239July 2, 2022 3:59 AM

The last thing European cities need is even more expats.

by Anonymousreply 240July 2, 2022 12:50 PM

US citizens who live in the EU without a residence permit are treated the same as any other illegal immigrant. So no healthcare insurance and no right to sign up for public housing. You only have the right to receive emergency care. Also, a lot of European cities are not as tolerant towards gays as they used to be.

by Anonymousreply 241July 2, 2022 1:00 PM

[quote]Also, a lot of European cities are not as tolerant towards gays as they used to be.

Other than cities in Poland or Hungary, can you offer some examples, R241?

by Anonymousreply 242July 2, 2022 1:18 PM

Yes, please do, r241.

by Anonymousreply 243July 2, 2022 1:47 PM

R241, who here was talking about living in Europe illegally?

by Anonymousreply 244July 2, 2022 1:47 PM

Those who are not nearing retirement and can work remotely should give the digital nomad life a try for awhile. I spent a year in Mexico, 3 months in Colombia, now in Buenos Aires. The beauty of being a nomad is that you can leave any time you get sick of a place. If you find somewhere you'd like to stay longer, then you can usually make it happen. There is no Shangri-la...every place has its pluses and minuses, but I honestly feel safer in Latin America than I do in the US.

by Anonymousreply 245July 2, 2022 6:28 PM

We will know in less tha 4-8 years. And honestly, I believe that at some point they will stop the exodus because of labor shotages. So leave early. We will know by 2024. o June, 2025. I'll be on my way by then. Here's why: If we fuck up in 2022 Midterms, the Republican Fascist Party will take over the House and the Senate. They will find a way to stop Biden from getting anything done.

In 2023, the SCOTUS just announced that they will take up a lawsuit that will determine the power of state legislatures to change the results of elections. Yes. CHANGE THE RESULTS. If they rule that the state Legislature can nullify the vote of the people, it is over. Peiod. They will announce their decision by June of '23.

By 2024, Voter suppression laws and nullifications laws will be operational in all 50 states. Or at least enough of them to throw the POTUS election into the Electoral college. We will have a Republican Fascist POTUS, and both Houses will go that way, as well as most states. Of course by then we will also lose Gay marriage and a host of other rights including all those guaranteed for women and minorities. So you won't need 4-8 years.

by Anonymousreply 246July 2, 2022 6:43 PM

[quote]Those who are not nearing retirement and can work remotely should give the digital nomad life a try for awhile. I spent a year in Mexico, 3 months in Colombia, now in Buenos Aires. The beauty of being a nomad is that you can leave any time you get sick of a place. If you find somewhere you'd like to stay longer, then you can usually make it happen. There is no Shangri-la...every place has its pluses and minuses, but I honestly feel safer in Latin America than I do in the US.

Good advice, R245, for anyone with some flexibility who may be uncertain of how he would adapt to living outside the U.S. It takes a special person to be able to hop around country to country, or in Europe in and out of the Schengen Zone countries to avoid overstaying to tourist visas, but there is a large network of information for people who want to try this. My city has a steady stream of people doing this, and, it seems, a fair number of people who decided to make it a permanent base after a period of exploring different countries and cities. Obviously it´s better suited to some people, and at certain points in their lives as well, but it has some advantages as well.

by Anonymousreply 247July 2, 2022 7:39 PM

I country hopped for a number of years too and enjoyed it but do wonder if the DL crowd is up for it. Most people crave a level of security and moving every few months to a new country doesn't feel secure to most people. Also there is keeping the eye on the end game. that is what to do when you can no longer travel and navigate new countries. As for me I do prefer keeping the possessions to a minimum and switching countries often but most people find my lifestyle choices strange. I am presently holed up in the USA now mainly due to the former Covid restrictions but hope to head out again in September.

by Anonymousreply 248July 2, 2022 8:37 PM

I blame the voters who repeatedly reelect the "name." I wish for once there was a complete overhaul of Congress and every member receives the boot, but don't worry, the revolving door will find them their next job, as a lobbyists. What a corrupt form of government we have.

by Anonymousreply 249July 2, 2022 8:43 PM

R241 I know of a straight, middle-aged hippie guy from the US who got beaten up in Amsterdam for “being a faggot.” He doesn’t even dress outrageously.

by Anonymousreply 250July 2, 2022 9:08 PM

Well, if 'he doesn't even dress outrageously,' R250, what more evidence do any of us need of rampant intolerance of gays in European cities outside Hungary and Poland?

by Anonymousreply 251July 2, 2022 9:15 PM

And if you ever travel to Amsterdam, be very careful when you walk around in the city centre at night. People (including women and straight couples) regularly get beaten up and intimidated by drunk and coked-up thugs from the province.

by Anonymousreply 252July 2, 2022 9:15 PM
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by Anonymousreply 253July 2, 2022 9:47 PM

just please don't come to canada we have enough insufferable commie loving progressive queens here.

by Anonymousreply 254July 2, 2022 10:16 PM

I’m originally from a British Commonwealth Island and I have dual citizenship. They have an office that facilitates accessing social security in the US. If it should come to that, I will leave. My family still has a small beach house there. We’re figuring out how best and how much to fix it up, just in case.

by Anonymousreply 255July 3, 2022 12:18 AM

Eat shit R254.

by Anonymousreply 256July 3, 2022 1:47 AM

Ugh R253, that looks like Brownshirts in Berlin 1930.

by Anonymousreply 257July 3, 2022 2:59 AM

Reads R254

Everybody, pack your bags! We're all moving to Canada!

by Anonymousreply 258July 3, 2022 3:00 AM

Could I get Norwegian citizenship through my great grandmother who was born there?

by Anonymousreply 259July 3, 2022 3:15 AM

OP Unless you marry someone from another country, you are trained in a high-demand and highly skilled profession, have a ton of money to invest to buy property in a foreign country, etc. moving to another country is difficult. If you have an undergraduate degree, you could go get your graduate in another country (expensive) and after your done your Masters some countries will let you stay.

Honestly, my best advice stay in NY (or move to another certain blue state) and campaign for that state to leave the union if things get bad. Honestly, I do think the union is going to collapase at some point as I do believe the country is spiralling towards some kind of civil unrest or even civil war.

by Anonymousreply 260July 3, 2022 3:24 AM

I'm going to Greenland. Global warming makes it a very attractive place. Plus they'd probably welcome more people since very few peolpe live there. It's pollution fee too, and I could grow food and eat fish and chickens.

by Anonymousreply 261July 3, 2022 3:24 AM

I remember when Dublin was practically begging young smart people to move there and work. All kinds of businesses at least put their Western Europe office there. Amazing to see what happens when you are too successful/grow too fast.

by Anonymousreply 262July 3, 2022 3:44 AM

[quote]with my husband who is Belgian.

Our sympathies.

by Anonymousreply 263July 3, 2022 5:00 AM

Tbilisi is not a bad place, and Georgia offers a working nomad visa (and great food). Even without that visa you can stay for a year.

Medical care is not strong so maybe it's not great for retirees. Also, the long-term political situation is not all that stable.

by Anonymousreply 264July 3, 2022 5:15 AM

Aren’t the Russians doing the same sort of annexing in South Ossetia, Georgia as they did on the Crimean peninsula in Ukraine?

by Anonymousreply 265July 3, 2022 6:13 AM

R265 You also have Abkhazia, which is a larger and far more strategic territory. In any event, potential conflict with Russia is one reason I flagged "long-term" political concerns. (The other reason is internal Georgian politics.)

by Anonymousreply 266July 3, 2022 3:51 PM

[quote] with my husband who is Belgian.

Verifcatia of uncut sizemeat?

by Anonymousreply 267July 3, 2022 6:09 PM

Most European societies are closed societies. The people don’t really care to have immigrants in their midst.

by Anonymousreply 268July 3, 2022 9:18 PM

That's a nonsensical and broad assertion, R268. It's like saying Americans are fake-as-fuck-instant-best-friends, when we all know that that is true only 95,% of the time.

by Anonymousreply 269July 3, 2022 9:41 PM

Sydney Australia It's lovely this time of year!

by Anonymousreply 270July 5, 2022 7:23 AM

Most societies are closed and do not like strangers. Only a few metropolitan societies like New York are not.

by Anonymousreply 271July 5, 2022 7:33 AM

I might retire in the Dolomites. So beautiful and serene.

by Anonymousreply 272July 5, 2022 7:52 AM

R272 Tell people you've become a dolomite and you'll get some strange looks.

by Anonymousreply 273July 5, 2022 10:16 AM

Ha ha. R273. It does sound like mixture of dolt and sodomite.

by Anonymousreply 274July 5, 2022 10:32 AM

It's better than it used to be, in some communities in many countries. but there are still the vestiges of insulaity in many towns and cities across Europe.

by Anonymousreply 275July 5, 2022 1:58 PM

Personally, I think most of the online "America is breaking up" hysteria is due to Russian trolls stirring shit who don't grasp that America will not and can not break up.

Legally, the matter became settled law ~150 years ago. Not even Texas can leave (it lost that right when it rejoined the US as a conquered rogue state).

There's also the matter of identity. America has the strongest sense of national identity of any country with 100+ million citizens. People who "want" to break up are deluded enough to think that if they could, they'd get to keep America's brand name, identity, and world power... and kick out the other 97% of Americans. Newsflash: no civil war in history has ever been declared & won by people kicking the rest of the country OUT while THEY retained its identity & status.

Finally, and most importantly, there is no surgical way the US could ever separate, because red/blue isn't a "state" division, it's an urban/rural division. Even deep-red states like Texas have cobalt-blue capitals (Austin)... or, at least, very "purple" big cities. If Texas seceded from the US, Austin would secede from Texas (just to name one very big & blatant example), and Texas would be left fighting a "two-front“ war (to repel the US *and* keep its own capital city).

Russians think the US can and will break up, because their own country (the Soviet Union) did, and Russia *itself* is a fragile collection of autonomous Republics with little love for their Moscow overlords.

by Anonymousreply 276July 5, 2022 2:00 PM

All this talk of Dolomite reminds me of this car... a neighbour has one, and it's lovely! The thing with Americans moving to Europe, is everything (well, nearly everything!) is smaller - including the cars.

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by Anonymousreply 277July 5, 2022 2:04 PM

R274 Actually, I was thinking of catamite.

by Anonymousreply 278July 5, 2022 2:26 PM

Costa Rica is nice. You just have to learn Spanish.

by Anonymousreply 279July 5, 2022 4:10 PM

My grandparents on my mother's side were both citizens of Switzerland before they relocated to the U.S. and became citizens here. In the past, having grandparents who were Swiss meant it was very easy to get a Swiss passport regardless of where you (the grandchild) were born, and created an easy path to Swiss citizenship. But I think something changed in 2018 that makes this not much of an advantage anymore. I'll have to research further.

by Anonymousreply 280July 5, 2022 11:25 PM

that's too bad, R280, you should have applied as soon as you were able to.

by Anonymousreply 281July 6, 2022 4:51 PM

Kyiv OP

by Anonymousreply 282July 6, 2022 5:26 PM

R280 I've heard people say that the Swiss are quite closed off and rather mean. But I'd still love to live there if I could. Such breathtaking and fairy tale like beauty.

by Anonymousreply 283July 6, 2022 5:43 PM

Switzerland has a significant shortage of skilled labor in areas that include engineering, finance, IT, legal, medical and pharmaceutical, and technical (HVAC technicians, etc.). and they have moved to fill these positions by simplifying immigration laws and hurdles. I see advertising as part of a national campaign often.

I don't know the details, but pass this along only because the job types are not so highly specialized as to preclude all but a few viable applicants.

by Anonymousreply 284July 6, 2022 6:03 PM

sounds great R284 if you are fluent in French, German or Italian!

by Anonymousreply 285July 6, 2022 6:08 PM

and Romansh too!

by Anonymousreply 286July 7, 2022 1:17 AM

OP if you can't figure that out based on your age, employment situation, finances and language is spoken you should just go back to your mother's basement

by Anonymousreply 287July 7, 2022 4:50 AM

r287, right because it is such an easy, simple decision to make.

by Anonymousreply 288July 7, 2022 5:44 AM

And so difficult to provide an answer R288 for the OP since no criteria is given. Google is her friend not DL And does she have no friends to ask who might know something about her and could sensibly recommend places to and for her to research?

by Anonymousreply 289July 7, 2022 5:58 AM

I would look inside the U.S., because it’s going to be very hard for Americans to go to other countries, and very expensive.

If you have the money to go now, avoid the rush. But otherwise, it’s a real dilemma, because red states have water, and most blue states in the west are in dire straits, or about to be. They don’t have enough water to accommodate thousands of democrats fleeing Handmaiden’s Tale states. And people are already talking about leaving their cheap house in Texas and going to a safe blue state

by Anonymousreply 290July 7, 2022 6:00 AM

[quote]You might as well stay and fight for your rights, because if the US folds the rest of the world will follow like dominoes

[quote]I mean for anyone who intends to stay in the US, which will probably be a better bet than most places in the world, even now. There will be no escape, no country to flee to where everything's fine and dandy. Nobody's getting out alive, I'm afraid, except maybe the rich.

[quote] Gurl, I hate to break it you but your stuck here in the old US of A regardless. I am in my early 40's and there is no swanning to different countries. NOBODY WANTS AMERICANS. Canada doesn't want us, the UK doesn't want us, and I don't want Mexico or some 3rd world place that does.

[quote]Just look at the millions who walked on foot for hundreds of miles...at the southern border...they are dying to come to USA! It's not so bad!

[quote] USA isn't so bad. we still have a lot of rights. You can sue whoever the fuck you want and maybe even win. You can't do that in other countries.

[quote]You are all hysterical cows. It’s going to go downhill everywhere, be happy that you can live in the US.

[quote]JFC another Debbie Downer, the US is circling the drain post.

[quote]Fact is, there are zillions of places in the US where you can feel safe and secure, and create a little haven, without running off to countries you nothing about. It's a fantasy! And the fact is, much of the US is breathtakingly cheap

[quote]if America to descends into chaos, it’s going to drag the rest of the world down with it. Also, existing in Europe is fine, but it’s hard to live over here.

[quote]nowhere is safe, the US is still the largest economy in the world so her reach is far and wide

[quoteI know of a straight, middle-aged hippie guy from the US who got beaten up in Amsterdam for “being a faggot.” He doesn’t even dress outrageously.

[quote]Honestly, my best advice stay in NY (or move to another certain blue state) and campaign for that state to leave the union if things get bad. Honestly, I do think the union is going to collapase at some point as I do believe the country is spiralling towards some kind of civil unrest or even civil war.

[quote]Most societies are closed and do not like strangers. Only a few metropolitan societies like New York are not.

In short: 1.) Dominoes! Americans think the world revolves around them; it’s pointless to leave because all else would have to fail because of chaos in the U.S.. 2.) Americans are mistrustful and fearful of anything foreign, certain it is better in the U.S.. They are like King Geogre V who said, “I don’t like abroad. I’ve been there,” though more likely Americans haven’t been there. And not only is abroad bad, it’s primitive and dangerous —look no further than what happened to that straight hippy in Amsterdam— and some of them don’t warm right up to strangers!

The flip side of the "USA! Number 1!” coin Americans really are taught that it is pointless to travel because everything you need is right where you are, and the rest of the world is a shithole anyway, and they don’t always has wash cloths. Stay where you are! Outside is nothing but danger!

Of course moving to another country is a difficult thing. Many don't have an easy way of doing it and/or lack the resources for such a transition. There are loads of bureaucracy and forms and filings and interviews. Money, jobs, healthcare, language are not always easy hurdles. Even for more positive reasons it's not an easy decision/process to make such a move, but there is no shortage of fellow Americans who will tell you not to trouble your little mind to even think about it.

by Anonymousreply 291July 7, 2022 7:36 AM

Does anyone here live in Baja California?

by Anonymousreply 292July 7, 2022 2:37 PM

Hiss! HISS!!!!!! Do not interrupt Miss R289's valuable time! Her story is about to come on and the ironing needs done!

by Anonymousreply 293July 7, 2022 5:28 PM

[quote] they don’t always has wash cloths

I can haz wash cloth?

by Anonymousreply 294July 7, 2022 5:29 PM

Does Tijuana count?

by Anonymousreply 295July 7, 2022 7:33 PM

Sadly, the country is in the position it’s in now because rather than putting in the hard work at the local level, progressives immediately look to move to cities, states or countries that are already progressive. Instead of turning red areas blue, they’d rather make blue areas bluer.

Meanwhile, there isn’t one single state in which Republicans garner more than 60% in state elections. Not one single state reaches the commitment to one party you find in Washington, DC (where democrats win with over 75%). That means not one single state is completely lost…yet progressives want to take the easy road.

by Anonymousreply 296July 8, 2022 5:01 AM

So true 296. We only need to have 300000 Californians to move to Wyoming and the senate would be ours.

by Anonymousreply 297July 8, 2022 5:39 AM

[quote] So true 296. We only need to have 300000 Californians to move to Wyoming and the senate would be ours.

I'll do my duty and move to Brokeback Mountain if I can have a hot cowboy who is into stallion/mare role play.

by Anonymousreply 298July 8, 2022 5:51 AM

We'd ALL move to Brokeback Mountain, if we could get one of those!

by Anonymousreply 299July 8, 2022 10:24 AM

*le sigh*

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 300July 8, 2022 4:22 PM

what about Israel? good place to go?

by Anonymousreply 301July 8, 2022 4:32 PM

WHOOPSY wrong thread

by Anonymousreply 302July 8, 2022 6:13 PM

Good place to go for what, R301? Land grabbing?

by Anonymousreply 303July 8, 2022 7:52 PM

I'm retiring to Italy in a couple of years.

but only because I hold dual citizenship, inherited property there and have more extended family there than here.

by Anonymousreply 304July 8, 2022 11:42 PM

Lucky you, r304. Do you speak Italian?

by Anonymousreply 305July 9, 2022 12:57 AM

r305

Yes I speak Italian. it was my first language and the language spoken at home growing up.

by Anonymousreply 306July 9, 2022 1:14 AM

[quote] what about Israel? good place to go?

Actually, Tel Aviv is pretty amazing in terms of a fantastic gay scene, beautiful beaches, beautiful people. If you are jewish or have a proper Jewish conversion, you can easily move there. There are even programs that will help you move there. On the flip side, it's expensive and it's a very new country in a lot of ways. There are also very conservative religions in Israel. If you can afford Tel Aviv, I would just move to CA and call it a day.

by Anonymousreply 307July 9, 2022 6:24 PM

^ Israel is almost as fucked up as the United States and although the military open carries machine guns on the streets, you are less likely to be shot and killed there, but might die from an errant bomb or two.

by Anonymousreply 308July 10, 2022 3:18 PM

They practically worship Trump in Israel. They think he's the reincarnation of King Cyrus (totally not shitting you here).

by Anonymousreply 309July 10, 2022 4:25 PM

If America were not a 1000% imperialist country, your question would have various and interesting answers. But your governments, for 70 years, have been determined to Americanize the West and impose American culture everywhere. Your country has the greatest arrogance in the history of humanity because it wants to impose its culture, its brands, its politics on the whole world and now colonize Europe as the USA do, as if America were Rome when it is so culturally inferior to European countries.

Now America even exports its pathologies like Wokeism and racialism, two ultra destructive things, to others. Not to mention the trans kids and vaccines that have no effect, etc.

Only non-Western countries can differ completely from your detestable America in which you live and which you force the rest of the West to adopt.

by Anonymousreply 310July 10, 2022 5:00 PM

[quote] But your governments, for 70 years, have been determined to Americanize the West and impose American culture everywhere.

Well there’s also the British Council and the Commonwealth, the Alliance Française and la Francophonie, the Goethe Institut, the Instituto Cervantes, the Instituto Camões, the Japan Foundation, etc. But yeah, America is still #1 in this regard, just like at the Olympics.

by Anonymousreply 311July 10, 2022 5:44 PM

r217 Its high but not quite as bad as youre painting it. My cousin and his wife got a semi detached 2 bedroom in Dublin near Crumlin for 275. Granted this was 2 years ago ( and still insaely expensive for what it was) but still.

by Anonymousreply 312July 10, 2022 5:52 PM

R311 Lol none of them is imperialist. The Commonwealth is not, and the Alliance Française and francophonie even less. The only imperialist country even in England now is America.

by Anonymousreply 313July 10, 2022 6:27 PM

R313 Don't post nonsense. The EU reflects the imperial aspirations of Germany and to a lesser extent France over the whole of Europe.

by Anonymousreply 314July 10, 2022 6:44 PM

R314 Hahaha what a joke! Have you ever set foot in Europe to say such bullshit?? Poor ignorant, the European Union is a creation of the USA, in 1945. That is why De Gaulle practiced the politics of the empty chair. All Europeans see more than ever the extent to which the EU is governed by the USA

by Anonymousreply 315July 10, 2022 6:47 PM

R314 "If necessary I would not hesitate to SACRIFICE Europe to win the war in Ukraine" Joe Biden

by Anonymousreply 316July 10, 2022 6:51 PM

We have a shortage of workers in the restaurant business here in Norway. We lack chefs and waiters. If you are a chef or want to work as a waiter, chances are you will easily get a work visa. Oh and btw, waiters earn a living wage here. We don't tip, as waiters have a solid wage.

by Anonymousreply 317July 10, 2022 6:57 PM

May and Johnson would no doubt have been very pleased if the USA were indeed calling the EU's tune.

And you're perhaps confusing NATO with the EU. Understandable for those who don't follow international relations too closely. You know, NATO. The alliance that lets Germany spend a pittance on self-defence while sheltering under America's nuclear shield.

by Anonymousreply 318July 10, 2022 6:57 PM

R318 You really think Europeans are idiots. I repeat, the European Union was created by the United States, whether you like it or not, there are tons of archives on this subject in Europe with irrefutable evidence. De Gaulle knew it, Churchil knew it, all the European leaders knew it.

I know what NATO is and I know it from the European Union. The American governments even go so far as to intervene directly in the European governments. Macron, Sanchez, Dragui etc...

Oh and when your Président talk like that, don't expect people to like him in Europe!

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 319July 10, 2022 7:04 PM

A few years ago the American government disarchived the documents about Europe, and there was no doubt that it was the US that created European Union through local traitors like Jean Monet or Shumann. You will not teach a European his own history or what he lives every day on his soil! R318

by Anonymousreply 320July 10, 2022 7:09 PM

R320 You're the ignoramus about America "founding the EU" after WWII. There was a series of European integration moves starting exceptionally modestly after WWII. The US certainly helped kickstart European integration with those initial modest steps, but all the steps thereafter towards today's EU were taken by the Europeans themselves.

That you call Monet a "traitor" tells us all we need to know about you. And you dare call yourself a "European"!

by Anonymousreply 321July 10, 2022 7:31 PM

R321 Lol, you don’t accept the simple truth because you don’t like it. Last time I talked about that on the DL, I was asked to bring the evidence. I did it by sending the irrefutable link that shows declassified CIA documents. It was written that the European Union was an American creation. The whole plan was written. What happened? The DL deleted the entire post because it is important that not everyone knows that America has colonized Europe for 75 years.

But it is too late, these documents exist, they are real, and NOTHING you say will change the minds of Europeans. Do you know what a real European is to ask me if I am? You don’t even live in Europe, but you claim to know my own continent better than I do??

"Tell us all we need to know about you"?? NO it tells all the WORLD needs to know about America!

The US not only destroying Europe, your country is destroying the WORLD for too long now.

by Anonymousreply 322July 10, 2022 7:39 PM

Unbelievable! A fucking Yankees telling me "And you call yourself an European" Bwahahaha! As if you had any idea what being an European means!

by Anonymousreply 323July 10, 2022 7:44 PM

r310, Murdoch has had a heavy hand in shaping US politics. Without Fox News our country would be very different.

by Anonymousreply 324July 10, 2022 7:49 PM

Are you talking about Rupert Murdoch? R324

by Anonymousreply 325July 10, 2022 7:51 PM

R323 is just jealous he’s not American.

by Anonymousreply 326July 10, 2022 8:49 PM

OK. but EU isn't that bad. the enemy is Russia and china and Iran etc

by Anonymousreply 327July 10, 2022 8:59 PM

R326 Jealous??? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!

For absolutely NOTHING in the world I would want to be an American. NEVER, I prefer death. Your nation is responsible for all the wars that have been unleashed around the world for the last 100 years. I would never want a crazy nation that steals inventions from other countries, and even their languages. You have no history or culture. Why would I want to be an American when you envy Europe to the point of destroying it from the inside?? For what? Your junk food??? Your bad movies, music??? For what exactly??? Your architecture??? No one in Europe want any of your craps.

by Anonymousreply 328July 11, 2022 12:36 AM

It’s impossible to “steal” a language. Are you saying Americans started speaking a European language, and now Europeans are unable to speak that language because Americans have taken it away from them and they’re not allowed to use it any more? That’s what stealing means.

Americans come from every country on earth, people come here speaking whatever language they know. Nobody is telling them to “steal languages”, they’re just speaking the same as they did at home.

by Anonymousreply 329July 11, 2022 12:54 AM

R329 Lol america is an Anglo speackers, composed of British from the outset. The British already had a certain percentage of French in their language. But not to the extent that it has become now. You spend your time taking French words and exepressions, which not only have nothing to do with you, but also turn into something else. You respect NOTHING. Having several crops on your soil, yes, but there are very, very few French in America and you don’t live near France that you are extremely obsessed with. At this point is stealing YES. Geographically you are surrounded only by countries that speak Spanish or Portuguese. Americans don't speak Spanish nor systematically add Spanish words . You only do that with the French language. When it’s not the language, it’s looting European companies, when it’s not that, it’s copying European cinema. In short, no one envies you in Europe, YOU are the ones who envy the Europeans.

by Anonymousreply 330July 11, 2022 1:15 AM

...Not to mention that English is a german language from the start...You are supposed to take after german language, not the french.

by Anonymousreply 331July 11, 2022 1:25 AM

R328, please stay in whatever country you're in, you're fabulous, I'm sure. you forgot WWI and WW2 was not started by the USA. get your facts right.

by Anonymousreply 332July 11, 2022 5:00 AM

This thread took a nosedive.

by Anonymousreply 333July 11, 2022 5:54 AM

The civil war is an option, United States of America South, United States of America North...

by Anonymousreply 334July 11, 2022 5:58 AM

I’ll be staying in my blue state, that’s for sure!

by Anonymousreply 335July 11, 2022 6:00 AM

R332 You're sure?? It’s still weird that Roosevelt helped the Nazis flee Europe. The US helped the Nazis settle all over South America, it's no secret now... Then, when the United States created the European Union, they put a former Nazi at its head. Strange. The landing in Normandy was done without any agreement from France. They did not warn De Gaulle and allowed themselves to do so without including any French soldiers. After which they wanted to colonize France, they even set up a new French money printed in the USA. De Gaulle and the Resistance defeated the plans of Roosevelt, who much preferred Pétain who collaborated with Hitler.

They had the plan of a government composed solely of collaborators. It was again General De Gaulle who destroyed the American plans. I also find it odd that it took four years for America to come in Europe when Europeans have been calling for help for all these years...

by Anonymousreply 336July 11, 2022 6:06 AM

R332 The Marshal Plan was ready before Americans soldiers even come to European soil. As if by chance, it is this Marshal Plan that will allow the USA to become First economic power....

by Anonymousreply 337July 11, 2022 6:10 AM

Back to back World War CHAMPS is what America is! USA all the way baby!

by Anonymousreply 338July 11, 2022 6:17 AM

R332 Oh and I NEVER intended to put a single foot on American soil, ever. You are the ones who are massively coming here doing the tourists in Europe, not the other way around. So, it’s not worth telling me to stay where I am, I never left to begin with and your country never made me dream.

by Anonymousreply 339July 11, 2022 6:19 AM

R338 Russia won the WWII, not America. If you had deigned to answer calls for help instead of waiting four years, while millions of people were growing up in gas chambers, you might have won, but it was obviously Russia that cleaned up Europe and arrived in Berlin before any country else. The British also fought like lions for 4 years. The landing in Normandy is not enough to give you the victory, sorry to remind you that your Hollywood propaganda movies do not reflete the historical facts

by Anonymousreply 340July 11, 2022 6:26 AM

*reflect

by Anonymousreply 341July 11, 2022 6:35 AM

[quote] I repeat, the European Union was created by the United States, whether you like it or not, there are tons of archives on this subject in Europe with irrefutable evidence. De Gaulle knew it, Churchil knew it, all the European leaders knew it.

You are welcome and it was a pleasure doing business with you. Have a wonderful day!

by Anonymousreply 342July 11, 2022 6:35 AM

R342 Thank you, can't wait for karma to catch you all, because sooner or later that will happen. The Europeans , country after coiuntry realize that you are the ones making a mess of Europe. One day we’ll have to pay the bill , you all the so-called allies, more traitors than enemies.

by Anonymousreply 343July 11, 2022 6:40 AM

The European elite, at least, speak of Jean Monet as if he were a god. Calling hm a "traitor," you sound unhinged.

by Anonymousreply 344July 11, 2022 8:16 AM

R344 Lol WTF do you even know about Jean Monet??? European elite??? De Gaulle refused to participated to THAT EU because he knew via his secret sercives that USA was behind it. Jean Monet is a traitor even in France. Don't forget that for the referendum the French said NO to the EU. Sarkozy also betrayed France in 2008 by still integrating the European constitution that the French did not want. And they were right!!! The only goal of the EU is to destroy Europe for the only benefits of the USA via Germany the only ally of the USA, which gives itself a malignant pleasure to demolish the other European countries. You think we’re idiots, but we’re not! Jean Monet was a TRAITOR The investigations and some old ex deputies said he was working for the CIA.

by Anonymousreply 345July 11, 2022 8:52 AM

R344 Not long ago, I went to Paris and then to Provence, I can tell you that the French are feeling more and more anger towards America because of Macron, who is an US agent. Through Macron The DOJ imprisoned great French business CEO whom the CIA spied on. They blackmailed evil and used Macron BEFORE he became president. Macron signed the papers that sold this strategic (nuclear) company to General Electric. It was the Alstom affair that triggered a real storm in France. These are the so-called American allies. Several cases have come out since.

For example McKinsey and Macron among others. You don’t even know what you’re talking about, you’re ignorant focused on your little navels and you don’t even know you’re sleeping on bombs that will eventually blow up in your face, sooner or later because the French have had enough.

Yesterday a new nomb exploded with Uberfiles and Macron again, you can it on the Guardian, there is even a hastag on Twitter about it.

Without the French you would never have celebrated the 4 of july. Lafayette and King Louis XVI saved your obese asses. and they never imposed you any Marshal Plan!

Soon the french will boycott every single American products and brands.

by Anonymousreply 346July 11, 2022 9:05 AM

R346 Sounds like every Frenchman is a traitor. Except you!

by Anonymousreply 347July 11, 2022 9:09 AM

R347 I'm not French but i live near France and my coiuntry is in the EU!! If the only thing you have to say after that is something so STUPID, the discussion is CLOSED.

See? You don't have decency, respect or humility. The fact that you are not schocked tells everything the world needs to know about your thug nation.

by Anonymousreply 348July 11, 2022 9:14 AM

If you're not French, who are you to call Macron or Monnet or Sarkozy et al. traitors? Not really your business. Let the French handle the French.

by Anonymousreply 349July 11, 2022 9:25 AM

R349 Who i am...??? AN EUROPEAN unlike your trash big mouth. I also have family in France and ties with France dates back 2000 years. Your little nation, barely 230 years old doesn’t know what that means. Who am I? a European who sees his country destroyed because of the European Union which is managed by your criminal country Who am I? A European who wants you to leave our soil!

I have a lot more ties to Jean Monet or Macron than you’ll ever have. so I can talk about it since my country is osus American balance poor fat buffoon eating hamburger shit

by Anonymousreply 350July 11, 2022 9:30 AM

R349 And YOU, who the fuck are you to defend the CIA agents like Monet, Sarkozy or Macron who were hired to destroy my continent???

by Anonymousreply 351July 11, 2022 9:35 AM

I moved to Italy in June 2021. I lived in NYC too OP and there was nowhere else in the United States I wanted to live. I got a student visa with a language school. I had to temporarily move to Philadelphia to get my Visa through Pennsylvania since the NYC consulate are such assholes and don't give student visas for language schools. So far I have been here just over a year. The first year and still is all about the transition, settling in. I am a resident of Italy now. Now I am looking for work as well, or starting my own business assisting Americans who want to move here. It isn't the easiest thing to do. BUT the thing about living elsewhere, especially compared to NYC, you don't have to kill yourself working day and night, just to keep your head above water. The amount it takes to have a peaceful, enjoyable life here is much lower than most of the United States. You could live decently on a 50k a year as opposed to the minimum $150k necessary to live in NYC. So that opens up work options to pursue things that actually interest you. Good luck to you.

by Anonymousreply 352July 11, 2022 9:51 AM

Euro-federalists financed by US spy chiefs By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard in Brussels 12:00AM BST 19 Sep 2000

DECLASSIFIED American government documents show that the US intelligence community ran a campaign in the Fifties and Sixties to build momentum for a united Europe. It funded and directed the European federalist movement.

The documents confirm suspicions voiced at the time that America was working aggressively behind the scenes to push Britain into a European state. One memorandum, dated July 26, 1950, gives instructions for a campaign to promote a fully fledged European parliament. It is signed by Gen William J Donovan, head of the American wartime Office of Strategic Services, precursor of the CIA.

The documents were found by Joshua Paul, a researcher at Georgetown University in Washington. They include files released by the US National Archives. Washington’s main tool for shaping the European agenda was the American Committee for a United Europe, created in 1948. The chairman was Donovan, ostensibly a private lawyer by then.

The vice-chairman was Allen Dulles, the CIA director in the Fifties. The board included Walter Bedell Smith, the CIA’s first director, and a roster of ex-OSS figures and officials who moved in and out of the CIA. The documents show that ACUE financed the European Movement, the most important federalist organisation in the post-war years. In 1958, for example, it provided 53.5 per cent of the movement’s funds.

The European Youth Campaign, an arm of the European Movement, was wholly funded and controlled by Washington. The Belgian director, Baron Boel, received monthly payments into a special account. When the head of the European Movement, Polish-born Joseph Retinger, bridled at this degree of American control and tried to raise money in Europe, he was quickly reprimanded.

The leaders of the European Movement – Retinger, the visionary Robert Schuman and the former Belgian prime minister Paul-Henri Spaak – were all treated as hired hands by their American sponsors. The US role was handled as a covert operation. ACUE’s funding came from the Ford and Rockefeller foundations as well as business groups with close ties to the US government.

The head of the Ford Foundation, ex-OSS officer Paul Hoffman, doubled as head of ACUE in the late Fifties. The State Department also played a role. A memo from the European section, dated June 11, 1965, advises the vice-president of the European Economic Community, Robert Marjolin, to pursue monetary union by stealth. It recommends suppressing debate until the point at which “adoption of such proposals would become virtually inescapable”.

by Anonymousreply 353July 11, 2022 9:57 AM

For the big mouths ignorants on the DL

How the CIA created the EU

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 354July 11, 2022 10:05 AM

If you indeed have such strong ties to Jean Monnet, then you'd know how to spell his name.

by Anonymousreply 355July 11, 2022 10:15 AM

R355 You are SO pathetic and ridiculous! Your arguments are worthy of a child of 5 yo maximum. In your place I would be ashamed. But America does not know what shame means. You are enslaving Europe and waging a war with Russia FAR AWAY from your soil, that you yourselves have been provoking for years to impose your shiste gas, your oil or that of those who find grace in your eyes, But in the meantime, you’ve created famine everywhere. Even the World Economic Forum is under the direction of the USA to enslave Europe via Young Leaders. You are the plague.

The day will come when you will have to pay the price for all the evil you have done to justify yourself to the world.

I speak French and in my native language, we do not need to steal French words as you do without even knowing how to pronounce them correctly. You are a nation without culture, without history that envy those of European countries and that absolutely wants to control the entire planet. You have no arguments, no counter-arguments. You are just a little shit on the DL who plays patriot while accusing everyone of being a fascist, racist or Nazis while your country destroys other nations: THIS WHAT fascism is you buffon! I don't care if Monet takes 2 N, you cretin. He was a TRAITOR what would i care???? He was YOUR AGENT, not an European anymore!!!

by Anonymousreply 356July 11, 2022 10:28 AM

"The United States of America is a country that has gone directly from barbarism to decadence without ever having known civilization" Charles De Gaulle

Bye ignorant assholes!

by Anonymousreply 357July 11, 2022 10:39 AM

r356 needs to pull the baguette out of his ass.

by Anonymousreply 358July 11, 2022 10:40 AM

R358 The baguette is delicious unlike your disgusting hamburger. I have a nice ass, and not a bunch of fat like yours. French cuisine is a true gastronomy. You have none. European nations have succulent dishes that you seek to copy without ever succeeding.

Normal, in Europe there was a civilization before you destroyed it.

by Anonymousreply 359July 11, 2022 10:44 AM

It isn’t lost on me that some of this rhetoric is straight out of a Russian troll’s playbook. Western democracies have shown exceptional unity these past few months. Now, there’s a concerted effort to cause political instability on the continent (first the UK, now France and the Netherlands), and some are twisting reality to blame the US!

It amazes me the way people pretend Russia learns lessons and refuses to go back to the same playbook. But don’t worry. The same people who sounded delusional and off their meds in 2016 and 2020 (the EU was created by the CIA!) still sound crazy in 2022.

by Anonymousreply 360July 11, 2022 11:29 AM

[quote]If you are a chef or want to work as a waiter, chances are you will easily get a work visa. Oh and btw, waiters earn a living wage here.

While R317 is well-intentioned and speaking factually, most Americans would be foolish to seriously consider such an idea. I’m an American living in Germany, and my income allows me to live somewhat of an extended holiday existence. However, I’ve met so many immigrants who work at restaurants and other jobs where they make the minimum wage. Even though all their basic living expenses are covered, they barely have any money to splurge on non-necessities.

The minimum wage for a restaurant worker in Norway is 175.47 NOK (17.05€) an hour, and the average work week is 40 hours. Considering Norway has one of the highest costs of living in the world, its not like someone from the US would find themselves financially comfortable.

But I suppose not getting shot going to a grocery store is an attractive prospect!

by Anonymousreply 361July 11, 2022 12:04 PM

OP may I come with you? With your resources and my good looks we can live off the coast of Bermuda in a villa or something.

by Anonymousreply 362July 11, 2022 12:11 PM

Calm down, Mary 310. As for your statement, "Your country has the greatest arrogance in the history of humanity because it wants to impose its culture, its brands, its politics on the whole world..." you seem to forget England, which is the record holder for taking over and/or invading the most countries in the history of the world over the course of more centuries than the U.S. has been in existence.

by Anonymousreply 363July 11, 2022 5:02 PM

That was obviously for R310.

by Anonymousreply 364July 11, 2022 5:02 PM

A little history lesson for R310.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 365July 11, 2022 5:06 PM

I wonder if that person is a russian troll.

by Anonymousreply 366July 11, 2022 5:13 PM

I think i would stay in the usa. we have freedom of speech, the most important thing. not the same in other countries.

Know your rights

by Anonymousreply 367July 11, 2022 5:14 PM

Boy, are you dumb, R328.

"Your nation is responsible for all the wars that have been unleashed around the world for the last 100 years." Heard of Germany and Japan in WW2?

"You have no history or culture." There's the Great Experiment that came from the imperialism of England and the Enlightenment, for starters. As for culture, there's American literature, jazz, Abstract Expressionism, Pop Art, and the American musical, to name a few. Not bad.

by Anonymousreply 368July 11, 2022 5:16 PM

Haha, sure, R362.

And I'm not having my thread derailed by some tedious, ranting troll. She's being blocked by me and I suggest anyone else who wants to continue this thread do the same.

Thanks, by the way, for all the constructive, non-bullshit responses.

by Anonymousreply 369July 11, 2022 5:20 PM

[quote]I think i would stay in the usa. we have freedom of speech, the most important thing. not the same in other countries.

R367, the U.S. scores in 28th place on a freedom of speech index and the trend is not upward. It's not as though the concept of freedom of speech is uniquely American.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 370July 11, 2022 5:44 PM

UK ranked higher than the USA? that list is utter BS.

If you write some bs shit about a certain god loving religion in the UK, the cops track you down and visit you at home. Does that sound like freedom of speech?

by Anonymousreply 371July 11, 2022 6:02 PM

1. No place on Earth is perfect. That's a given.

2. I've researched retirement visas (I plan to retire in December, 2023) and am pretty much down to Spain and Ireland. I speak both local languages fluently. Never been to Ireland, but I did go to university in Spain, and have visited a few times since. Spain is much more affordable.

3. Those posters above who talked about water are correct. Say what you will, the climate is changing and fresh water is becoming more and more scarce. It's common sense to try to move away from the equator, rather than toward it -so no Panama, Costa Rica, etc. Even Mexico is now an unlikely prospect as it will become flooded with refugees from Central America.

4. I'm currently in California, which in a worst-case political scenario will probably be one of the last holdouts for liberty and democracy. If we could solve our water problems, I'd probably stay. Climate-wise, Alaska makes a lot of sense but it's already horribly red, and likely to get redder, not better.

Thank god I'm old and won't have to live through all of this as the world goes totally to hell.

by Anonymousreply 372July 11, 2022 6:44 PM

France? CDG shit airport, lazy fuckers and air france is a terrible airline. never ever transit thru CDG if you can avoid it. inefficient and SLOW!

by Anonymousreply 373July 11, 2022 9:57 PM

If you live in France, R373, you need never use CDG unless you're leaving the continent. True, it can be a difficult and time-eating airport, but if you fly within Europe, it's happily avoidable.

by Anonymousreply 374July 11, 2022 10:29 PM

R374 Yes, and get gouged good and proper taking the Orlyval Shuttle to get in or out of the place by RATP.

by Anonymousreply 375July 11, 2022 10:42 PM

There's no pleasing you from France, R375!

by Anonymousreply 376July 11, 2022 10:45 PM

Je t'aime, France R376.

by Anonymousreply 377July 11, 2022 10:49 PM

RE: Italy

[quote]You could live decently on a 50k a year as opposed to the minimum $150k necessary to live in NYC.

Unless things have changed in the last 3 years, you could live comfortably in Italy on much much less. Maybe not in Milan or Rome but in some of the gorgeous small cities and towns life is pretty inexpensive. Few people there make 50k a year. You'd have to be a doctor or something like that.

by Anonymousreply 378July 11, 2022 11:10 PM

Really, R378? That's all a doctor makes in Italy?

by Anonymousreply 379July 11, 2022 11:13 PM

Just remember, Canada is always freezing cold, our taxes are humongous compared to American taxes, and oh yes, and our healthcare system is inferior to the US system (smirk), so don't come up here, you're much much much better off staying put!

by Anonymousreply 380July 11, 2022 11:14 PM

I think you will have to pay dual taxes...taxes for the country you move to, plus taxes to the US.

by Anonymousreply 381July 11, 2022 11:34 PM

R379 Lo stipendio medio per medico in Italia è € 45 000 all'anno o € 23.08 all'ora. Le posizioni “entry level” percepiscono uno stipendio di € 35 500 all'anno, mentre i lavoratori con più esperienza guadagnano fino a € 78 000 all'anno."

Average wage for a medical doctor is € 45 000 a year.

Entry level: € 35 500

With years of experience up to €78 000

..................

The average wage in Italy is €1 500 a month. 28.500 a year.

by Anonymousreply 382July 12, 2022 12:03 AM

[quote] That makes me sound unbearable?

You exude unbearableness. It comes off you like steam.

by Anonymousreply 383July 12, 2022 12:08 AM

And yet, R383, here you are.

by Anonymousreply 384July 12, 2022 12:09 AM

[quote]I think you will have to pay dual taxes...taxes for the country you move to, plus taxes to the US.

Typically no. Though you do have to file a U.S. tax return showing that you were a tax resident of another country for the year and are subject to taxes there. Taxable income above $108,000 in another country may be subject to a double-tax payable to the U.S. on the overage.

There are more details, but that's the general outline.

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by Anonymousreply 385July 12, 2022 12:59 AM

It is quite easy to legally emigrate to many other countries, especially as a native English speaker, just not - and here will be the sticking point for most DLers - predominantly white ones.

by Anonymousreply 386July 12, 2022 1:17 AM

Really, R386? Is the UK scooping up people of color?

by Anonymousreply 387July 12, 2022 1:32 AM

It's relatively easy to move to Mexico and some other Central American countries. I have friends who moved to Belize with ease years ago and they love it.

by Anonymousreply 388July 12, 2022 1:37 AM

But R388, are they gay? I heard Belize hates gays.

by Anonymousreply 389July 12, 2022 1:57 AM

Yes, Belize hates gays. They only lifted their anti-sodomy laws in 2016.

by Anonymousreply 390July 12, 2022 2:20 AM

Mexico doesn't hate the gays, and Argentina is very gay friendly, as are Uruguay, Costa Rica and Ecuador. There are quite a few Asian countries such as Cambodia that aren't difficult to emigrate to either. R387 I think you misread - my point is that it's not hard to move to black and brown countries, but most DLers who want to leave the country right now want to move somewhere white.

by Anonymousreply 391July 12, 2022 2:46 AM

R360 LMFAO your comment almost made me pee with laughter. It's funny how everything that is wrong with the DLers DEMs narrative is either Russian bots or Nazi, racist, fascist. You don't have anything else in your mouth but these puerile rhetoric. Sorry to disappoint you but contrary to your fantasy-like certainties, Europeans are not at all united with Americans. You are confusing the leaders put in place by your politicians and the people of Europe. The majority of those who send weapons to Ukraine, for example, did it illegally, without the agreement of the parliaments, whereas the constitution obliges them to get its agreement. Why do they do this? Simply because they know that their people, thier citizens DID NOT WANT YOUR WAR.

Russia has not done anything to the countries of Western Europe to make them go to war with them. This YOUR war, another one since 75 years!!! You Americans have always had a problem with Russia, not Europe, not Europeans. You don't even know what you are talking about. Germany is far from representing the European countries.

by Anonymousreply 392July 12, 2022 3:27 AM

R363 England is no longer a colonizing empire. America has been colonizing Europe in 2022, for 75 years, taking advantage of WWII, all after colonizing the country your fat ass still sits in 500 years later, which belongs to Native Americans. England decolonized many countries. You never left America. Shut up.

by Anonymousreply 393July 12, 2022 3:31 AM

R368 You keep talking about an England that no longer exists, how cute. Trying hard to reassure your colonist's conscience the best you can, much?

Jazz is Afro American.

Abstract expressionism comes from Europe, lol. It is mainly Europeans who fled Nazi Germany who are at the origin. This extremely minor and super ugly art, which Europe did not want, was subsidized by the New Deal program of Roosevelt, another American colonist. In terms of art, we are very, very far from Da Vinci, Picasso, Van Gogh, Monnet, George De La Tour...

The American musical comedy is largely inspired by Parisian cabarets and musical theatres. You are culturally far below Europe. Sorry.

by Anonymousreply 394July 12, 2022 3:46 AM

R373 R375 CDG airport worked fine for me. It's funny an American who spits on France with French words. Not a single American region can compete with a French region in terms of beauty, architecture, quality of life, French cuisine etc... America is so perfect that you'all absolutely want to flee, and where? In Europe! I hope that Europeans, whose anger is growing a little more every day, will kick your assholes away soon.

by Anonymousreply 395July 12, 2022 3:52 AM

R369 you blocked me but you are still able to read me? LOL My God you guys are pathetic it's unbelievable...

Anyway, I see that as always, there were NO counter-arguments, just childish attacks, to oppose what I exposed above and which should have made you ashamed if you had been a normal nation. But you are not and never were. STAY IN AMERICA, nobody wants you in the rest of the world. Go read something other than the DL and look at all those protests everywhere in Europe and in the world, instead of waxing your ego on a Dems propaganda website like the DL, you will see that Europeans on Twitter are puking America.

WHY?

Because of you famine is spreading to many countries, gas is going to be cut off in many countries, and electricity is going up. You and your evil leaders are committing genocide. Beware, just because you started a war with Russia, sitting on your obese asses thousands of miles away from Europe, like the cowards you are, doesn't mean that nothing will come back to you. This time you will pay for it. and you'll pay for good.

by Anonymousreply 396July 12, 2022 4:08 AM

R36O "Western democracies have shown exceptional unity these past few months. Now, there’s a concerted effort to cause political instability on the continent (first the UK, now France and the Netherlands), and ome are twisting reality to blame the US!"

This sentence is surreal. Nothing is true. Not a single word. The instability in Europe is caused by America via the EU. The Ukraine, it is YOUR country who helped to destroy and destabilize it in 2014. The war with Russia is ANOTHER American war that is destroying ALL European economies. And this is the goal of the USA for almost 80 years. You are using the EU to get to Russia, at the expense of the Europeans, and you still have the nerve to talk like that? Which unityare you even talking about??? The unity that your propagandist media tell you??? Again, have you ever put your foot in Europe???

Europeans don't agree with this devil's plan, which they will pay for at a high price. All this will eventually return to the sender. Because Russia is not losing, it is winning for now, contrary to what senile Joe says. If we get an atomic bomb from Russia because of you, you'll see if you ever set foot in Europe again.

by Anonymousreply 397July 12, 2022 4:23 AM

Sure, Jan/R397. Whatever you say. Fact: Russia is a shithole country being destroyed inside out by a megalomaniacal midget (who resembles a puckered butthole after a massive shit).

ANYWAY, the person who said it’s easy to avoid CDG is 100% correct. The few times I’ve gone there it’s because I was flying to the US for business and forced to buy the cheapest ticket…meaning a layover in Paris was unavoidable.

by Anonymousreply 398July 12, 2022 6:30 AM

R378 you're right. You can live on much less here in Italy. I am living in Rome now, and 1200 a month is about the average they make. As an American with a strong American work ethic, it would be easy to live comfortably here. The only major thing you have to pay for are your trips back to the states to visit family - depending on how often you want to go. But besides that, traveling around Italy itself is inexpensive and fulfilling. There are an unlimited number of places to see and go it seems.

The best combination is a remote American job that pays American wages while you live here in Italy. Italy is working on a NOMAND Visa for remote workers around the world who want to live here. Look into it. If you made 60K, 75K a year at an American job, you could live very very nicely here. You could buy a home as well. And there are no taxes on your first home here in Italy.

by Anonymousreply 399July 12, 2022 7:01 AM

^ NOMAD visa, sorry.

by Anonymousreply 400July 12, 2022 7:47 AM

R398 Yeah, well, when one sees the state of your streets in California or wherever, with homeless crack addicts all over the streets, if I were you, I’d shut the fuck up. You’ve been to CDG especially in your head and fantasies, when in fact your asses are sitting in your ignorant country. You who provoked the Russians, not the other way around.

When Cuba had them as allies and they wanted a Russian military base near them you were ready to go to war but you when it's you, you think everything is allowed?? The Minsk agreements had to be respected. Then NATO has nothing to do with the Russian borders. You believe that the whole planet belongs to you, you are a homeland of psychopaths constantly at war, constantly destabilizing countries as soon as they have a strong economy. You also wanted to colonize Russia and destroy it from within, but Putin is a thousand times stronger than you. Soon the collapse of your nation of bandits and raptors who think they are an empire, then the world will be in peace again.

by Anonymousreply 401July 12, 2022 9:37 AM

Saudi Arabia is always an option! (I'm joking, obviously.) Why not do the best for and in the country you live in? The US are far from beyond hope. You only think the US are worse because you know it more intimately than other countries. I'm typing this from Germany, and I can detail to you the many ways in which Germany sucks. I have Canadian friends who can tell you how much Canada sucks, and British friends who pick Britain to pieces. Despite everything, you stay and - to use an already overused phrase - be the change you want to see in the world.

by Anonymousreply 402July 12, 2022 9:38 AM

Good idea, STAY in your fucking decadent country. No one wants you in their countries

by Anonymousreply 403July 12, 2022 9:42 AM

One of the charming characteristics of the Europeans is their belief they can't possibly get drunk and start to spout nonsense on wine.

by Anonymousreply 404July 12, 2022 10:50 AM

R384 - So? Trainwrecks always draw attention.

by Anonymousreply 405July 12, 2022 11:35 AM

R402: Everybody from a respectably comfortable places trashes their own country. The Canadians, the Germans, the Brits, the Irish (whose mothers will even speak horrible things about their own children, in front of their own children, to anyone who will listen.) The Spanish permanently underestimate their attributes and downplay any achievements or talents; they just assume everyone else does everything else much better. And so it goes. European countries don't share the same competitive streak as Americans; they don't have to win every contest and every trophy. Boasting and besting don't come naturally but skepticism about government and politicians and institutions often does. Ask them about politics and their first instinct is no it to prattle on about what a perfect system it is despite imperfect politicians, it's to trash the whole lot as incompetent, corrupt, and the beneficiaries of political patronage.

Not boasting of how beautifully everything on your country runs is not always the best indicator of how well it runs.

by Anonymousreply 406July 12, 2022 11:47 AM

Definitely a troll.

by Anonymousreply 407July 12, 2022 1:42 PM

I'm certainly open to hearing constructive criticism about the US, but the troll kind of outed itself with the pro-Putin comments at R401.

To stay on track, I'm off to London soon. A permanent move is imminent, though I thought I might wait until next year. I've recently been fantasizing that a trip I have planned for October could very well be "the move," so maybe it needs to happen then. IDK if I have the balls to do something that crazy though.

by Anonymousreply 408July 12, 2022 1:58 PM

"No where is safe. Stay and fight like hell."

I left the United States last year to give it a go in Italy. I've posted a lot about it before. There are several places that are safer than the United States right now. For some people, America has always been a fight, a struggle in someways. For some of those people, like me, the fighting became too exhausting. I am not saying it's an overall everyday struggle. It is definitely like a cancer. You get it when you're young, you fight it, you go into remission and don't think about it again until it pops up in your 30s, and later on in your life - knowing full well that at some point you're most likely going to succumb to some form of it.

I am black and for me the countries history with racism was like that for me. There were some awful historical times. There were times in my life that were awesome and I wasn't affected by it. But in America it always rears it's ugly head in some way shape of form. I nearly had a panic attack watching Lovecraft Country on HBO when I realized it will never be better. The show takes place in the racist 50s and the characters had to travel back to the racists 20s during the Tulsa Massacre. And there I was sitting watching it just days out from George Floyd's murder in 2020 and thinking there has never been a "SAFE" time for black people in this country. (as GAY men a lot of you know this exact feeling) YES it has gotten better, but there has never been a time in this country where someone somewhere isn't being killed JUST because they are black - gunned down in a grocery store or a church because of the color of their skin. And there will be more to come I am sure.

Everyone has their own story and there is nothing super unique about mine to anyone else other than me. But I wanted to move to distance myself from my home country that was refusing to heal itself. I am not saying racism doesn't it exist everywhere. But here it is not my responsibility to take it on, to fix it. It doesn't break my heart the way it does in America. America has absolutely no excuse to be in the state it's in after all that it has been exposed to, gone through, in the last 100 years - unless it truly wants to be a racist country, which seems to be the case.

by Anonymousreply 409July 12, 2022 2:09 PM

r409, that is a great post, thank you for sharing.

by Anonymousreply 410July 12, 2022 2:19 PM

R409, it’s quite telling when black people complain about how horrible the US is…to justify their moving to lily white countries in Europe with worse records on race. You might have a better experience as an African-American, but ask an African-African how great it is to be black in Italy!

I’m an American in Germany…not because I’ve given up on my country, but because an opportunity presented itself. I wish I could knock some sense into every American who thinks they’re going to move to Europe and find peace and prosperity.

by Anonymousreply 411July 12, 2022 3:12 PM

[quote]it’s quite telling when black people complain about how horrible the US is…to justify their moving to lily white countries in Europe with worse records on race. You might have a better experience as an African-American, but ask an African-African how great it is to be black in Italy!

My experience is better purely being American. And actually being black and from America is seen as cool since a lot of Italians identify with the "persecution" side of the experience. Don't ask me why, but they know all about the police shootings of black people and black's overall history, experience in the United States. And as I said r409 it's not my responsibility to change, educate Italians on their prejudices. So that alone is freeing. Actually to me their prejudices make much more sense because of their limited exposure to other cultures compared to people in the United States who have been surrounded by black people forever but still choose prejudice. How does America STILL produce someone born in 2002 who grows up hating black people enough to kill them en masse?

Black Americans being treated better in Europe as compared to the US is a tale as old as time. There is a good article in the NYTs if you have a subscription. Black Artists Leaving America: Building on the legacy of luminaries such as James Baldwin and Josephine Baker, many Black creatives are seeking out new possibilities abroad.

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by Anonymousreply 412July 12, 2022 4:02 PM

[quote]I wish I could knock some sense into every American who thinks they’re going to move to Europe and find peace and prosperity.

All depends on what it is you are looking for. I see your point in part, but it assumes there's no point of going anywhere because you and your old worries are inescapable. For.me, there is a reason to move and it is possible to have a happy outcome, not just a change of scene and language.

Moving countries is a very difficult thing for some, they never really get both feet out of their native country and never get out of the habit of constantly ranking one place against the other. When they refer to "home" you know in a split second that home for them will always be where they are from, not where they live. Retirees with Excel charts where their hearts and brains should be sometimes move to a cheap country and think they will live as royalty, happily ever after, the whole country bending over backwards to thank them for their custom. People move to escape one place and give too little thought to finding contentment in their new country.

I moved from the U.S. to Europe and have never been happier, but my move wasn't based on escape, or retirement savings, but because it was where I wanted to make a home for myself and my partner who is from there originally. I'm lucky on the last point and on already having EU citizenship; there were no legal hurdles for me, just a bit of paperwork (a contrast to when my partner lived in the U.S. with me.)

Though news of the U.S. and the sometimes defeated mood of American friends might boost are only an afterthought that, all the real reasons aside, the choice has some coincidental benefits of not being where I don't want to be. Home for me is where I've made a home and where I'm happy and want to stay. It's not where I'm from except in an historical sense.

I always tell people who speak in whatever degree of seriousness about moving or retiring to another country to keep foremost the question: Do you want to live there and make a life for yourself? There specifically, and not anywhere else? Are you sure you're sure?

by Anonymousreply 413July 12, 2022 4:47 PM

R393, go fuck yourself. You have nothing to say, you pointless cunt. Blocked.

by Anonymousreply 414July 12, 2022 4:52 PM

Italians are definitely very racist. Just look at their soccer games and so many players who play in Serie A have said they were racially abused, called monkeys, bananas thrown onto the pitch. Just ask Mario Balotelli and he's Italian!

by Anonymousreply 415July 12, 2022 4:53 PM

Sure, Jan R405.

by Anonymousreply 416July 12, 2022 4:53 PM

Just visit for a month and see if you like it. Do not move there without doing so.

by Anonymousreply 417July 12, 2022 4:55 PM

I can get an Irish citizenship due to grandparents being from there...and I've visited many times but I'm not so sure about living there. One of my distant relatives needed a hip replacement but it took almost 2 years just to see the specialist and then even more months of waiting ( i think it was at least 6 months) to get the operation. not sure about the health care over there. I will have to investigate more.

by Anonymousreply 418July 12, 2022 4:59 PM

Well, this thread might just as well be closed.

by Anonymousreply 419July 12, 2022 5:07 PM

R418: An Irish passport is EU citizenship; you wouldn't have to live in Ireland. You can live anywhere in the EU (also the UK in the special case of Ireland.).

Heritage citizenship applications in Ireland can take two years and longer. Any unforseen event like COVID will delay the process significantly.

by Anonymousreply 420July 12, 2022 5:25 PM

R418 there's public healthcare which is fantastic everywhere in Europe for emergencies and urgent care. But for longterm specialist care, you can purchase private supplemental insurance. It is still nowhere near as expensive as US healthcare system.

by Anonymousreply 421July 12, 2022 7:59 PM

R412 You are a fool if you think Italians would ever want more black people immigrating to Italy.

Of course you are accepted being a very tiny minority. A curiosity. And thankfully at least of a socio economic class they can relate to. Not so for the Africans trying to live there.

I love Italy. It is a marvelous country. I lived there most of my adult life and after being away for 3 years now am looking forward to the day I go back.

The people are wonderful... but don't be naive.

by Anonymousreply 422July 12, 2022 10:14 PM

R422 how dense can people actually be? How many times do I have to shout it out for thick skulls like you who just don't get it? If you are going to comment on something, at least take the time to read it entirely. And if you have read it entirely, then please take time to understand what is being said. I don't know how many more times I have to say I know there is racism in Italy. But I'd rather face it this way than from my own home country. I understand it here. It is completely understandable to me. And fortunately I cut my teeth on all the subtle forms of racism the United States has to offer that the obvious stuff that I experience from time to time here is almost comical. I also know it is worse for Africans here in Italy. But I can see why that exists as well.

Italy isn't America. It doesn't have to pretend like its arms are open to the world. And I am glad it doesn't. Who wants a whole stream of people coming in who are for the most part going to be a drain on the already limited system. I would be wary too. I have seen it happen over and over again, once people know I am American (I actually look much more black American than African) people treat me different. I know it exists. I am glad I am not African. I probably wouldn't be here if I were. But I am not, so I am, and my life here has been a pleasant one so far.

by Anonymousreply 423July 12, 2022 10:50 PM

R404 "One of the charming characteristics of the Europeans is their belief they can't possibly get drunk and start to spout nonsense on wine." Awww how cute.

One of the characteristic "charms" of Americans is that they are naturally drugged and drunk. They don't even need wine. However, they came en masse to Europe, especially to France, to learn the secrets of French wines, so jealous were they of them, that they copied these wines in California. Another of their characteristics is to believe that they are the best in the world, while they steal from the rest of the world.

R407 It's funny (and pathetic), how you convince yourself that anyone who doesn't glorify you, doesn't kiss your obese asses, doesn't adhere to your ideology are necessarily: trolls, nazis, a fascists. You are SO convinced that the whole planet admires you, without ever having moved your fat asses from America, that you don't even know how much the whole world is sick of you all.

by Anonymousreply 424July 12, 2022 10:57 PM

R408 What exactly is a Pro Putin commentary? Telling the truth?

t is true and admitted by all, at least those who have a minimum of European political knowledge that America is the one who wants this war and not the Europeans. It is true to say that you have not respected the Minsk agreements. It is true to say that you are the only beneficiaries of this war since the Europeans have their gas cut off by Russia, the oil will soon be available and famine is spreading to several countries, because of you.

Putin is threatening to send nuclear bombs because of you, and we Europeans should rejoice and applaud you???? What kind of crazy people think like you in the world? ONLY YOU. By the way, your America is so wonderful that you want to run away from it and move to Europe! Shut the fuck up, learn humility and go fuck yourself asshole. We should die because of your will, that's not being Pro Putin ???? Imbecile.

by Anonymousreply 425July 12, 2022 11:05 PM

R411 LOL Oh really??? Europe is worse than America in terms of racism and you have the nerve to say that you live in Germany, you poor degenerate liar??? Italy has never participated in slavery and has not colonized any sub-Saharan countries. You are clearly clowns. There is racism everywhere and there will always be. But to claim that the nation that set up segregation would be less racist than Europe is the biggest intellectual scam I’ve read here, and yet the number of assholes who comment is gigantic.

Oh and stop insulting people intelligence and stop liking your own post you are ridiculous!

by Anonymousreply 426July 12, 2022 11:13 PM

R414 Hahaha The truth hurts? Oh booo hooo what will become of me if you block me, I feel my heart is broken, really...

When you have no arguments, and the only behavior you are worthy of adopting is to act like a vexed child, you shut your mouth and don't comment your bullshit.

by Anonymousreply 427July 12, 2022 11:17 PM

R419 Of course the nation that boasts (wrongly) of being the greatest nation in the world with its freedom of specch, wants to close the threads as soon as they prick their little American egos. Pffff....

If only you were adult enough you would read your own comments and you would see how much you look like mentally ill people who proudly present themselve as American patriots and at the same time try to escape from their beloved America. This is called schizophrenia.

When you don't want to live in your country anymore, it's because this country doesn't make you want to stay. When you don't want to stay at home, it's because the house is not going well, doesn't fit you. The rest is intellectual masturbation, period.

by Anonymousreply 428July 12, 2022 11:25 PM

So, as I said, if you block the ranter, the original premise of this thread is to talk about where people emigrate to and from where, and why, wth a slant toward people leaving the U.S. Anyone not a troll who can stay on topic--thanks again. I'm finding a lot of the responses (especially to one another) for the most part very interesting and illuminating. Love to hear more.

by Anonymousreply 429July 13, 2022 12:10 AM

R420 Technically at least, that Irish passport gives you the right to work anywhere in the EU. If you're retired and not working, for example, the EU mandate by its terms doesn't apply, but member states differ whether and how they enforce the distinction.

by Anonymousreply 430July 13, 2022 2:07 AM

Did any of you see the Guardian article on a survey that ranked New Zealand as the second worst place to move to? Kuwait was worst. Mexico was best.

Some one link it please. I'm feeling faint. It's the heat.

by Anonymousreply 431July 16, 2022 10:45 AM

Got it, R431. Wake up!

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by Anonymousreply 432July 16, 2022 10:52 AM

And according to the survey referenced in the article above, the top 10 countries for remote work are:

Mexico.

Indonesia.

Taiwan.

Portugal.

Spain.

United Arab Emirates.

Vietnam.

Thailand.

Of course, your mileage may vary.

I had planned on Spain even before I saw this, but now I'm leaning toward Portugal. It only takes $8600/year non-working income to get a retirement visa, and even I can afford that! Spain in about 30K, and my pension and SS only come out to 26K.

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by Anonymousreply 433July 16, 2022 11:01 AM

Who wants to live in UAE? Yuck. I would choose NZ over Dubai any day.

by Anonymousreply 434July 16, 2022 11:10 AM

R433 I believe you can buy a home in either Spain (at least 500k) or Portugal (280k in low density areas) and become an instant EU citizen which means you can live anywhere in the EU as well. And if they are anything like Italy, there is no tax on your first property, your first home.

by Anonymousreply 435July 16, 2022 11:18 AM

I'm sure the majority of (or most?) Americans who want to leave because of politics are unlikely to desire anywhere outside of the West (so Spain, Portugal and maybe Mexico?).

r434 Certain kind of expats. Then those who want sth very cheap go to Thailand, Indonesia (already expats destinations, but much more so with Covid 'wfh' expats).

by Anonymousreply 436July 16, 2022 12:34 PM

No mention yet of Malaysia. English-speaking and not quite as corrupt as Thailand and far more developed than Indonesia or the Philippines. Decent healthcare.

No place is perfect but all in not bad, probably the best alternative in Asia at reasonable cost. There's a "Second-Home" program for a long-term visa.

by Anonymousreply 437July 16, 2022 1:26 PM

[quote]No mention yet of Malaysia.

Malaysia is fine if you don't mind going to prison, and/or being caned/flogged for breaking their sodomy law, which is strictly enforced.

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by Anonymousreply 438July 16, 2022 2:16 PM

If you wanted to stay in an area for 3-6 months is Airbnb your only option? I was looking at Edinburgh and furnished apartments aren't cheap.

by Anonymousreply 439July 16, 2022 2:33 PM

Just one thing to keep in mind, from someone who has moved abroad, is the cost of getting back to the States if and when you want to. I still have parents, family in the states. Close family comes and visits me. But twice a year I go back - summer, holiday season. Keep in mind these are usually the most expensive times to travel as well. So if you still have family in the states, you still see yourself going back and forth, I would pick a city that has direct flights within a price range you can handle. I would imagine travel back and forth from Asian countries would not only be exhausting but prohibitive price wise for most people. Not only is the flight more expensive but after flying 23 hours to get somewhere, you're probably staying for more than just five days, which adds up as well. But just as an example, I live in Rome, but the cheapest flights and most frequent tend to be through Milan and Venice. So I usually have to plan accordingly. And you WILL miss major events because of this. So get used to that idea as well. My grandfather passed this year and although I did see him at Christmas shortly before, I was not able to make it back to his funeral in January. He was 99 and not well then, so I sad my goodbyes at Christmas.

by Anonymousreply 440July 16, 2022 2:43 PM

r437 Are expats are treated differently (like UAE) regarding r438?

Gay and lesbian ones - all ethnic Chinese though - I met (in Europe, HK) who came from there chose to work or move abroad because of discrimination.

by Anonymousreply 441July 16, 2022 2:45 PM

Most of Malaysia is hot and humid as hell. The highlands are cooler, but would be a boring place to live long-term.

by Anonymousreply 442July 16, 2022 2:59 PM

Malaysia is Islam. You can forget it if you're gay.

by Anonymousreply 443July 16, 2022 4:19 PM

I meant to say Muslim country, in above post.

by Anonymousreply 444July 16, 2022 4:20 PM

R435? Would that I had that kind of $$! My property is probably worth 70K on a good day, and I'm not sure I want to sell it anyway. I need to have some place to come back to if I'm so inclined. My savings is about 30K, and I have a very old truck perhaps worth 3K. So I'm hardly what you'd call flush.

But I did retire with a small pension at 58, so there's that. And I could go back to work. I don't really want to, but I could.

by Anonymousreply 445July 16, 2022 4:30 PM

[quote]If you wanted to stay in an area for 3-6 months is Airbnb your only option? I was looking at Edinburgh and furnished apartments aren't cheap.

R439. Yes, AirBnB will be an expensive option. 1.) You might check 'Expats in Edinburgh' or 'Digital Nomads in Edinburgh"groups on Facebook and elsewhere, searching on variations of those words. Often expat group members list their apartments when they will be traveling or away for a period of months. 2.) Try the real estate aggregation sites like Rightmove.co.uk or Zoopla.co.uk, in some you can filter for 'short lets' as well as by location, size, price, furnished/unfurnished, etc. 3.) Google search on ̈́'Edinburgh' + 'short lets' (usually 'short stays' outside the U.S.), and you may find some specialty agencies or listing services; 4.) there are multi-country short stay apartment services, thehomelike.com is one; spotahome.com is one I almost used several years ago but I see now that it has grim ratings -- but there are others and you can see how they work by thehomelike,com example.

Enough people want exactly what you want -- fewer months than full-year term leases, often furnished or semi-furnished, something cheaper than an AirBnB rate but with some protections -- that you will find services listing them. Obviously be cautious making expensive plans long-distance and without having seen a property in person, but know too that other people do it all the time.

by Anonymousreply 446July 16, 2022 5:03 PM

There are lots and lots of gay people in Malaysia and many are living open lives.

by Anonymousreply 447July 16, 2022 7:59 PM

Lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) people in Malaysia face legal challenges not experienced by non-LGBT residents. Sodomy is a crime in the country, with laws strictly enforced, and social attitudes towards the LGBT community are shaped by Islam, the official state religion of Malaysia. Breaking the law is punishable by up to 20 years in prison and authorities will also bring the person to corporal punishment.

Human Rights Watch stated in 2015 that "Discrimination against lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) people is pervasive in Malaysia."[4]

In February 2021, a court declared that any state laws within Malaysia cannot be in conflict or override with clear federal laws banning gay sex.[5][6

Malaysia retains its colonial era criminal ban on sodomy (including oral sex involving the penis), broadly defined to include both heterosexual and homosexual acts, with possible punishments including fines, caning, and prison sentences of up to twenty years. A subsection of the Criminal Code also provides additional punishment for men convicted of "gross indecency with another male person".[7] In addition to the secular law, Muslim citizens may also be charged in special Islamic courts.[8] Vigilante executions, beatings, and torture are also tolerated, with the additional risk of being deported.[9]

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by Anonymousreply 448July 16, 2022 8:11 PM

In May 2019, a gay bar in the capital Kuala Lumpur was raided by police and religious enforcement officials, while a transgender woman was beaten up by a group of assailants in Seremban, near Kuala Lumpur. The minister in charge of Islamic affairs also came under fire from activists and other ruling party lawmakers, after he ordered the removal of portraits of two LGBT activists from an art exhibition.[1]

In November 2019, a court found five men guilty for "attempting" gay sex, under section 28 of Selangor's Sharia law, and sentenced them to fines, imprisonment and six strokes of the cane each. The five men were arrested during a 2018 raid on a private residence in Selangor, in which a total of 11 men were arrested.[20]

by Anonymousreply 449July 16, 2022 8:13 PM

R448 It's apparent you have never been to Malaysia and have simply Googled some reports.

Do you even know that less than half the residents of KL are Muslim? Chinese and Indians are in the majority. The country is not Saudi Arabia.

by Anonymousreply 450July 16, 2022 8:38 PM

That certainly wasn't my experience in Malaysia. The cruising at the Central market was unbelievable as well as the pathway outside. I have never observed such open sex in public anywhere I have been. That was at the dark Side as they call it. the place for Malay and Indian men. The light side, for the Chinese, was a little less blatant but still there. I do know Malaysia is not Amsterdam but in no way does it seem oppressive. I was stunned by the amount of lady boy prostitutes on the streets as well.

by Anonymousreply 451July 17, 2022 1:15 AM

[quote]I was stunned by the amount of lady boy prostitutes on the streets as well.

Always the marker of a high point in civilization

by Anonymousreply 452July 17, 2022 1:49 AM

I would never to to a country like that. it would be just your luck that you happen to be the one they pick on, to enforce their strict anti gay laws.

by Anonymousreply 453July 17, 2022 3:30 AM

With global warming Canada might not be so bad after all.

by Anonymousreply 454July 17, 2022 11:09 AM

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

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by Anonymousreply 455July 17, 2022 7:53 PM

The 1027 figure in R455's link for Portugal and Spain seems wildly off.

The number of deaths tentatively attributed to heat in Spain was reported as 84 yesterday, and 360 today (cumulative numbers.) A lot, absolutely, but way off. I don't see any figures that match or approach the DM's.

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by Anonymousreply 456July 17, 2022 8:10 PM

This on Germany, which seems a little extreme.

[quote]Germany ranked as ‘worst country in world’ for essential expat needs

[quote]Internationals who move to Germany are happy in the workplace but have delivered a crushing verdict on how hard it is to find a home and settle into the society around them, a new survey shows.

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by Anonymousreply 457July 18, 2022 5:21 PM

Cited in R457 an InterNations survey assessing the ease/difficulty if moving to various countries.

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by Anonymousreply 458July 18, 2022 5:23 PM

german gets power/energy from Russia...how's that working out?!

by Anonymousreply 459July 18, 2022 5:45 PM

R459, really bad. I’ve seen posts from Germans on Reddit saying they are rationing power already and they are trying to winterize their houses because they don’t know how bad it’s going to get. Some are asking about alternate heating sources.

Most alternate heating sources give off carbon monoxide. So my guess is a lot of people are going to die of carbon monoxide poisoning this winter.

by Anonymousreply 460July 18, 2022 8:55 PM

London is shutting down airports today because their tarmacks are melting.

by Anonymousreply 461July 18, 2022 9:15 PM

92˚F in Dublin today, still 76˚ at 22:30!

by Anonymousreply 462July 18, 2022 9:30 PM

One caution about Italy: your electric bill is based upon the maximum amperes you COULD draw, vs the kwh you DO draw... and the rate is on a sliding scale that gets REALLY expensive if you want more than 30A service. In the US, 150-200A is the norm. Even factoring 240v vs 120v, 30A is nothing.

That's why Italians use natural gas for everything they possibly can... a resistive electric furnace in Italy would bankrupt you, because you'd have to pay for 100A+ service all year to power a furnace you might actually *need* for 2 weeks, max. Ditto, for electric clothes dryers.

It's also why Italians use mini-split air conditioners for everything, even in new houses. Mini-splits can be networked & synchronized to start up one by one, reducing the peak startup surge by spreading it across minute instead of slamming the power all at once (so you can get away with lower-ampere service).

On the plus side, Italians have nice power outlets & plugs.

by Anonymousreply 463July 19, 2022 5:13 AM

It got up to 104 yesterday in Rome. It's scary how the 100s are just a daily thing now, like 90 used to be just 5 years ago. As far as energy bills, r463, combined gas and electric I am paying about $120 now a month which is much higher than it was last year BUT about what I was paying in NYC two years ago. I am not sure what I would be paying now in NYC as a comparison, if it has gone up with everything else.

by Anonymousreply 464July 19, 2022 7:04 AM

R310

Racialism and vaccines that have no effect? GFY, creep.

by Anonymousreply 465July 19, 2022 11:58 AM

My country was a very peaceful place, with a very low rate of violent crimes and strict gun laws. Now the violence is increasing with gun contraband. Guess from where are they coming from?

Fix your shit together because is contagious.

by Anonymousreply 466July 19, 2022 12:06 PM

Other countries need to fix their shit, too, R466. Your borders, your police, your people. It's not all on the U.S.

by Anonymousreply 467July 20, 2022 2:44 AM

Colombia, possibly.

by Anonymousreply 468July 20, 2022 4:26 AM

Other countries have a Islamic terrorist/extremist problem (looking at you France).

by Anonymousreply 469July 20, 2022 8:18 AM

OP, what specifically is your reason for wanting to leave? I know there are a lot of problems in the US right now, but just want to know what specifically you're running from?

by Anonymousreply 470July 20, 2022 2:18 PM

[quote]London is shutting down airports today because their tarmacks are melting.

And in the U.S., oblivious to weather conditions, the republic is melting, and with it the rights of its people.

But let's ignore that because London airports had a bad day, or France has had Islamic terrorists (the U.S. never), or because cuts in Russian fuel supply will mean hardship, or because you should just "stay and fight" as R470 is gearing up to advise. Sure, send $50 when you can to Biden's re-election campaign. That will show them and soon set things right.

by Anonymousreply 471July 20, 2022 5:01 PM

R470, I'm not running from anything. I just wanted to hear about other options to living in the U.S., if or when it just gets too ugly or unpleasant to remain. I honestly don't imagine that day will come, but I'd like to know about viable options, and because I don't want to feel yoked to the U.S. I don't want to feel like I have to stay here.

I was also curious about Costa Rica, but I guess it's not as reasonable as it was a few years ago.

by Anonymousreply 472July 20, 2022 7:05 PM

Leaving might be good.

by Anonymousreply 473July 20, 2022 7:34 PM

R472 Is there anything in your daily life here in the US that is making it miserable, or is it just impeding doom caused by reading about politics on the Internet and social media? I imagine living in NYC would be very expensive, too.

by Anonymousreply 474July 20, 2022 7:37 PM

Ask a Russian that right before Putin made his move to President-for-life. I'm sure things didn't change much for them in everyday life either.

I still wouldn't want to live there.

by Anonymousreply 475July 20, 2022 10:18 PM

No, R474, my life in NYC is fine and I have a great deal with my apartment situation. It's the possibility of impending doom politically that's the issue. But that would be the doomsday scenario of one-party right-wing rule--were they to propose the same treatment of gay people along the lines of some of the things they're proposing they want to do with women a la "The Handmaid's Tale." Then it would be bye-bye.

by Anonymousreply 476July 21, 2022 9:57 PM

OP I feel your pain. Many of us, American or not, are alarmed by some of the recent developments in the US. I recognize the attempt to start a reasoned conversation/debate on this issue. Datalounge is the wrong forum. Too many crazies and pinheads.

by Anonymousreply 477July 22, 2022 7:23 AM

To counterbalance all those who are saying that all people bash the country they live in-I’m here to say fuck that! As a black, gay male Canadian, I feel pretty safe on gay rights, free speech, hate speech laws, protected abortion, women’s equality, race relations, gun laws, water preservation, Climate-change activism, education, health care, Covid protocols, voting rights, separation of religion from politics- I could go on. These are all tremendously important issues to me and I will fight with everything I have to keep it this way in my homeland. No Country on Earth is perfect! We have our share of issues,. We certainly lack the grandness and culture and glamour of other places,. But I’m a proud Canadian and I’m not ashamed to say it.

by Anonymousreply 478July 22, 2022 7:53 AM

That's okay, R477--I expected to have a few bitches and fools on this thread and I immediately ignored them, shut them down, or blocked them. In the meantime, I am getting a lot of helpful and illuminating feedback. Thanks!

by Anonymousreply 479July 22, 2022 2:02 PM

I'm always fascinated by folks that think that moving to another country is as simple as just going there. It's legitimately super hard to get a living/working/studying visa in any country in this world. Even if you are rich and can buy property and sustain yourself indefinitely, there's still limitations.

Is this just a Narcissistic American thing? You assume that because you're American, that anyone would automatically want you?

Don't worry though...perhaps Canada will soon be able to accept you as a refugee.

by Anonymousreply 480July 22, 2022 2:19 PM

R480, I don't know anyone on this thread, including Americans, who said or suggested it would be very easy just to move to another country. So knock it off.

by Anonymousreply 481July 22, 2022 2:24 PM

"It's legitimately super hard to get a living/working/studying visa in any country in this world. Even if you are rich and can buy property and sustain yourself indefinitely, there's still limitations."

Do tell, R480! Since you think we're all so ignorant we can't research these things on our own, please enlighten me as to why you think it will be so difficult for me to get a retirement visa to live in a) Portugal, b) Spain, or c) Ensenada, Baja California. BTW, I speak enough Spanish to get by and yes, I know they speak Portuguese in Portugal.

Thanks in advance for your help -- I'll wait.

by Anonymousreply 482July 22, 2022 3:06 PM

R480, a real adventurer, I'll eager, offers us his unique insight - never mind that probably 75 posts have already made the same lame claim, he's here to lay down some Truth.

by Anonymousreply 483July 22, 2022 3:15 PM

R480 I did it. It wasn't as easy as just booking a ticket. But it wasn't impossible either. It's doable if you know how to go about it and where to apply - which cities have the toughest / easiest consulates for the country you want to go to. I got a study visa through a foreign language to school.

by Anonymousreply 484July 23, 2022 9:37 AM

Prague is lovely and it's cheap. Croatia is another option. My personal favorite is South of France around Nice.

by Anonymousreply 485July 23, 2022 12:40 PM

Having just spent 10 days in Slovenia, I would say Slovenia is a good option. It's one of the most green countries and has a lively capital. Now, it has gay marriage, too, if you care about that.

by Anonymousreply 486July 23, 2022 1:39 PM

IF?

Chile, Ecuador or Peru.

With what will happen with American politics and civil strife, Russian pseudo-hegemony, actual Chinese hegemony and the fact that they'll go for Taiwan from 2023 on, climate disasters, the fuck-up of the Gulf Stream and ice melting - Africa, Europe and Asia are out, New Zealand won't let you in and Australia is worse than death. That leaves the parts of South America that have food supplies and a shot at calm. And I'm only referring to selected parts of Chile and Peru, so Ecuador is my pick.

by Anonymousreply 487July 23, 2022 1:45 PM

R361 That is true, but you only really pay for food, gas, cell phone/internet, insurance, mortgage etc. No need to pay for health care (only a small fee). That is the whole point. Cost of living is high and yes we pay a lot in taxes (30-40 % and VAT is 25 %), but we also get many things for "free" due to our strong social security net. You need to consider all the perks we have: PAID 5 weeks vacation a year, universal health care, 1 year paid maternity leave, 3 months paid paternity leave, paid sick leave etc.

by Anonymousreply 488July 23, 2022 2:02 PM

Edited to add to my post: we also lack nurses, doctors, bus drivers, taxi drivers etc here in Norway. If you have one of these professions you will easily get a work visa. As I said, everyone here earn a living wage. We don't even tip.

by Anonymousreply 489July 23, 2022 2:05 PM

R484? You said you have to know which cities have the toughest / easiest consulates for the country you want to go to.

How do I find that out? Is there a website I can go to? TIA

by Anonymousreply 490July 23, 2022 3:53 PM

R490: I can't speak first-hand to Italy as R484 can, but a similar situation exists for Americans who apply for residency in other countries via self-sufficiency and other visa types. Spain is another example where its consulates in different U.S. cities have different reputations for how strictly or loosely they are with regard to financial evidence and other aspects of a visa application.

There is not a website that I'm aware of, but it's a frequent subject in membership groups in Facebook, search for example on: (American) Expats in X-country, Moving to X-country and similar keyword combinations.

by Anonymousreply 491July 23, 2022 4:35 PM

Thanks, R491. I guess I took down my FB page too soon.

by Anonymousreply 492July 23, 2022 6:37 PM

R492: Just checked and there is some discussion on Reddit forums such as r/digital nomad*, /escape_from_America, /visas, /immigration, /expat, etc.,

by Anonymousreply 493July 23, 2022 6:47 PM

R489 If you think Germany is quiet on weekends, wait till you get to Czechia. While big supermarkets and malls are open, almost all other shops are closed tight on both Saturday and Sunday. Bakeries even, not to mention pharmacies. As well, a surprising number of pretty rough-looking people on the streets. Not as prosperous a place as you'd think

Croatia is beautiful along the Adriatic but it's become really expensive in the past 20 years. Montenegro is even more beautiful and far less expensive.

by Anonymousreply 494July 24, 2022 2:17 AM

Denton, TX. All is dreamlike and nirvana here..............

by Anonymousreply 495July 24, 2022 2:20 AM

Does Wanda Skunket still live in Denton, Texas?

by Anonymousreply 496July 24, 2022 5:48 AM

Hey R490, R491 is right. I learned about it on different forums. New York City and Los Angeles I believe were the hardest. I was told the language school I was attending in Italy not to even try to apply for a student Visa through NYC. They only give student visa to candidates pursuing actual degrees and an accredited university - even though this is illegal. The school said you could apply, then bring a suit against consulate and probably win. But the last thing I wanted to do was start off living in a country by suing it. So we went for an Elective Residency visa through NYC that was denied as well. Then I read that the Philadelphia consulate had 2500 applications the year before and denied only one. So I transferred my residency to Pennsylvania and applied through the Philly consulate. I remember at my interview when the woman saw that I recently moved she said, "you didn't want to apply through NYC, did you..." So they know. I ended up getting my student visa to study at the language school through Philadelphia. You can only apply to the consulate that has jurisdiction over the area you reside in.

by Anonymousreply 497July 24, 2022 9:52 AM

Ancestry-based dual citizenship eligibility summary

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by Anonymousreply 498July 25, 2022 3:48 PM

Want to work in another country? Here’s what you need to consider

In 2013, Heidi Schmidt moved to London to spend nine months opening an office for her employer. Seven years later — with several visa extensions and six office openings in Paris, Madrid, Milan, Stockholm and Berlin — she returned to the Upper East Side, where she’s now vice president of client services at advertising-technology agency Hybrid Theory in Noho.

“I felt like I had an international MBA in experience in all those different countries, [being] exposed to how each market does business,” said Schmidt.

Flexibility was key when cultural or language barriers emerged. In Madrid, she leaned into high school Spanish. “My brain would hurt at the end of the day,” she said. “We’d meet halfway — Spanglish.”

Wanderlust New Yorkers now have many choices beyond traditional work to move across borders. Options include relocating with a company, working remotely, taking a gap year, a sabbatical, studying abroad, the Peace Corps and more, with a choice of countries across the globe. According to InterNations’ Expat Insider 2021 working abroad index, Taiwan ranked first for job security, followed by New Zealand for work-life balance and the Czech Republic for working hours.

After graduating from the School of American Ballet in 2021, Nolita’s Clara Cantor, 19, pursued a gap year planned through the Center for Interim Programs, a gap year counseling company helping people of all ages. Her itinerary included structured external programs of three months in Peru, Ecuador, the Galapagos Islands, as well as Cape Town and Johannesburg, South Africa, among others.

“The purpose was to throw myself into the wild. I was so goal-driven with grades and ballet . . . a self-imposed pressure cooker,” said Cantor, who’s heading to Brown University this fall. “I learned way more about myself and the world we live in from not having tasks to do.”

International adventures like these can be metamorphic, but they need proper planning.

Chad Ellsworth, a partner at global immigration services firm Fragomen, Del Rey, Bernsen & Loewy, with offices in Midtown, says work authorization is imperative. “They’re a contingency plan — a right-to-travel document that’s increasingly critical,” he said. “If you’re not compliant, it opens scrutiny for the company and everyone else at the company. Anything over 90 days would typically require a formal work permit.” And if you’re looking to work remotely, take a breath before hopping on the next flight to Costa Rica.

“Speak to your manager, speak to HR. Do it in a compliant fashion so that you protect your employer, but most importantly yourself, from any tax, employment, labor issues that could arise,” said Ellsworth.

Work permits, including for internships, are usually issued on a temporary basis for six months up to three years; it can take three to four months to secure them from the host country.

For independent contractors, scoring work authorization is also country-specific. The Bahamas, Barbados, Bermuda, Croatia, Cyprus, Malta, Greece and Estonia top the popularity list using methods such as Portugal’s D7 residence visa and the Dutch American Friendship Treaty. Each allows entrepreneurs to live and work in the country, although investment money is required, with costs ranging from $3,000 to $5,000

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by Anonymousreply 499July 25, 2022 5:17 PM

“They are supposed to be something you can apply for quickly — it hasn’t played out that way. It can take two to three months,” said Ellsworth.

“For anyone doing a nomadic visa, the best-practice recommendation is to have both an immigration and a tax consultation,” said Ellsworth.

That’s because wherever you go, Uncle Sam wants a cut. David Livitt, tax principal and US global mobility services tax leader at global audit, accounting and consulting group Mazars, said: “US citizens and green-card holders are taxed on worldwide income. If tax treaties exist between the US and the host country, then typically, the treaty has tax rules that prevent you from double taxation. Depending on the treaty and income source, one or the other will give you a tax credit.”

For instance, the top tax rate in the UK is 45% while here it’s 37%. Income is taxed in both locations; the top rate always applies. The individual gets credit for the 37 percent. The differential of 8% (grossed-up for tax purposes) may be absorbed by the company to meet the additional tax burden “to ensure that the individual is no better or worse off, as if they had remained working in the United States,” said Livitt.

When an agreement doesn’t exist, like Singapore, by establishing residence there, you become subject to both US and Singapore taxes.

There’s also a gray area with full-time remote workers.

“Some companies say, ‘You can work anywhere,’ ” Livitt said. “When you actually get into the detail, they backtrack.”

Livitt recommends employers follow a checklist for determining the risk/reward of employees working in another country: immigration, payroll, tax, social security, policy, expenses, health, insurance and data.

Freelancers should seek tax advice both here and abroad as there may be implications for both themselves and any organizations they work for, and similar to visas, getting caught for noncompliance is no joke, and may lead to deportation and being permanently barred from the country.

Typically, it’s a fine-based process,” said Livitt. “You clear up the paperwork, pay your money.”

Net net: Usually there won’t be issues around jet-setting for a few weeks, but “if you’re looking to spend three months, six months, a year, then 100%, there’s going to be some [tax] issues,” said Livitt. “Every government wants to know what’s going on. They want their revenue.”

by Anonymousreply 500July 25, 2022 5:17 PM

Here's another possibility: Baja California. I've certainly considered it, mostly because I can drive there and easily take personal items and my dog.

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by Anonymousreply 501July 25, 2022 10:43 PM

"I'm always fascinated by folks that think that moving to another country is as simple as just going there. It's legitimately super hard to get a living/working/studying visa in any country in this world. Even if you are rich and can buy property and sustain yourself indefinitely, there's still limitations.

Is this just a Narcissistic American thing? You assume that because you're American, that anyone would automatically want you?"

Well, get you! Since we basically have an open fucking door here in America for everyone to just cruise in, we are stupid to think that other countries would afford us some slack. Tell me how hard it is to get in the US now, you moron.

by Anonymousreply 502July 25, 2022 10:51 PM

[quote]I’m always fascinated by folks that think that moving to another country is as simple as just going there. It's legitimately super hard to get a living/working/studying visa in any country in this world. Even if you are rich and can buy property and sustain yourself indefinitely, there's still limitations.

[quote]Is this just a Narcissistic American thing? You assume that because you're American, that anyone would automatically want you?

Well, get you! Since we basically have an open fucking door here in America for everyone to just cruise in, we are stupid to think that other countries would afford us some slack. Tell me how hard it is to get in the US now, you moron.

by Anonymousreply 503July 25, 2022 10:52 PM

So now I am a troll? Fuck you.

by Anonymousreply 504July 25, 2022 10:58 PM

R502 While it may not be that simple it is the first step.

If you apply in advance you will be rejected in almost all cases but if you show up you can usually get enough of a Visa to get started.

by Anonymousreply 505July 27, 2022 3:18 PM

We're heading to a Soviet Russian communistic oligarchy…one party rule. They’ll install their dictator, like Putin. Trump was the test run.

Every Republican run state is a financial mess for everyone except for the politicians and their big donors.

They’ve rigged, cheated, and manipulated the system creating an impossible situation.

by Anonymousreply 506July 27, 2022 3:28 PM

That's the spirit, R506. So where will you exile yourself?

by Anonymousreply 507July 27, 2022 10:13 PM

[quote]Every Republican run state is a financial mess for everyone except for the politicians and their big donors.

Not true.

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by Anonymousreply 508July 28, 2022 12:46 AM

Conceivable place?

How about Octomom's pussy?

by Anonymousreply 509July 28, 2022 1:04 AM

Here's a good article looking at the best affordable choices.

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by Anonymousreply 510July 28, 2022 7:36 AM

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

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by Anonymousreply 511July 28, 2022 6:02 PM

Ding ding ding! The answer is...BHUTAN!

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by Anonymousreply 512July 31, 2022 7:47 PM

Is Bhutan a possibility? What say you all?

by Anonymousreply 513August 4, 2022 12:00 AM

I have no problems with living here and recognize that we're the freest and most privileged nation on the planet. Most of us are too spoiled and entitled to realize this, however. What constitutes as "an attack on our freedoms" differs based upon which American you're talking to, but I've found that politically, both sides believe their freedoms are under attack but for vastly different reasons. And that's been a headache to be surrounded by, I will admit.

I enjoy the freedom, here. However, the American elitist, entitled, and whiny attitude is, indeed, getting tiresome. If push comes to shove, my go-to country has always been Japan. The culture there is more humble and most people mind their business and are quiet introverts like myself.

by Anonymousreply 514August 4, 2022 12:33 AM

I was in the Balkans recently (North Macedonia) and encountered the phenomenon of the digital nomad. Basically, since broadband is cheap and plentiful everywhere, there is absolutely no need to stay in the one place with lots of different jobs, like marketing, programming, English teaching, consulting etc, so the guys who did these jobs would slowly drift around the picturesque Balkans, try to fuck local women, enjoy the cheap beer and pay next to nothing on rent or accommodation costs.

If my next contract with my current employer is my last, I half wondered about heading to Skopje again and trying it myself. A month's rent in N. Macedonia is about one-fifth of what you'd pay in Dublin.

by Anonymousreply 515August 4, 2022 12:58 AM

Oh yeah, one of the guys I met was American, about 45, computer programmer and occasional English teacher. He'd been living in Ukraine but left for obvious reasons. Seemed to prefer his life to the cube job he had back in Chicago.

by Anonymousreply 516August 4, 2022 12:59 AM

[quote]I have no problems with living here and recognize that we're the freest and most privileged nation on the planet. Most of us are too spoiled and entitled to realize this, however.

It's not always the most boastful bitch in the room who has the most stuff. Sometimes they exaggerate, and sometimes they flat out lie about how rich they are (with their freedoms.)

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 517August 4, 2022 8:06 AM

Don't get me wrong, R517, I agree that R514 went a teensy bit overboard. But I don't know that I'd defend myself by quoting research from the Cato and Frasier Institutes.

by Anonymousreply 518August 4, 2022 9:58 AM

r517 I'm confused, is your link meant to prove that the top 10 on that list are lying or...?

I wouldn't disagree. Canada, Australia, and New Zealand in particular are some of the most restrictive on their citizens. Like I said, it depends on what [bold]you[/bold] personally value as a freedom. So, the question really is subjective and depends on who you ask.

I, personally, prefer the government to meddle as little as possible in the individual liberties of its citizens. Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, and even many US states have shown to be on the contrast in that regard in multiple ways; especially these past 2 years.

by Anonymousreply 519August 4, 2022 2:29 PM

"Canada, Australia, and New Zealand in particular are some of the most restrictive on their citizens."

In what ways, R519? As opposed to China, Russia, North Korea, etc.?

by Anonymousreply 520August 4, 2022 2:40 PM

r520 I like the fact that I can carry a firearm to protect myself (can't do that in either of those countries), we have freedom of assembly, and strongly disagreed with the aforementioned countries' heavy-handed COVID/vaccine measures.

Switzerland being number one, for those above reasons, makes more sense than Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.

by Anonymousreply 521August 4, 2022 9:35 PM

“Freest and most privileged nation on the planet”, R514.

Certainly free to believe in the myth of American Exceptionalism that you have all been fed and which many of you have swallowed.

It’s simply not true.

by Anonymousreply 522August 4, 2022 9:47 PM

r522 M'kay.

by Anonymousreply 523August 4, 2022 9:48 PM

Right, the U.S. is the greatest, most freedomest country in the goddamn world because you can carry a gun to defend yourself (and other purposes such as you see fit); you can pick and choose to disregard infectious health protocols you find disagreeable, and all the while confident that your country is far and away the best thing ever.

by Anonymousreply 524August 4, 2022 10:30 PM

r524 Yes.

by Anonymousreply 525August 4, 2022 10:53 PM

Freedom for your children to have to participate in active shooter drills. Freedom to be forced to carry a foetus to full term when it has died. Freedom to carry and give birth in a pregnancy that originated in rape or incest. Freedom to not be able to afford health care. Freedom to be the largest greenhouse gas emitter on the planet. Freedom to feel the need to own a gun to protect yourself. Freedom to elect a barely literate, bankrupt reality TV star as Head of State and watch while he took the country to the edge of insurrection rather than concede defeat, and for which he not only remains unpunished but is a serious contender to run in the next election.

Yeah, you’re free all right.

by Anonymousreply 526August 4, 2022 11:13 PM

r526 1) Nothing wrong with being prepared for crazy...which is everywhere.

2) That's biologically impossible since something dead will not go to term, thus it is unenforceable, regardless of how difficult tards in politics may try, so I'm not concerned.

3) The people are voting on this issue in each state. That's what a free constitutional republic looks like. Enjoy.

4) I afford it just fine due to insurance via my employer. And it's top-notch. I personally have no complaints.

5) No, that's China, actually. But yes, we're free to destroy the planet for more iPhone production. Not sure what your point is.

6) I feel a need to own a gun wherever I am because people are batshit. Everywhere. I'm also a female and live alone. Most of the batshits are male and I can't bare-knuckle box a male. Tell your gender to get their shit together globally. Oh. And stay out of our bathrooms. Until then, I'll continue to enjoy the Cabela's sales on ammo.

7) I don't even know what you're on about, here. Yes, we're free to elect whatever intellectually challenged and unhinged, sociopathic, senior citizen into office because this isn't a monarchy. Even if doing so may technically constitute elder abuse and be an objectively stupid choice at the ballot box. It's still a choice we're free to make. Again. Your point?

by Anonymousreply 527August 4, 2022 11:33 PM

Look, we're not going to agree on this. We obviously have different values with regard to freedom and perceive this country differently. Do you and I'll do me.

But, you don't have to stay somewhere you hate. Absolutely leave if that's what you feel will make you happy. Overall, I'm fine, here.

by Anonymousreply 528August 4, 2022 11:44 PM

R527 6) I feel a need to own a gun wherever I am because people are batshit. Everywhere. I'm also a female and live alone. Most of the batshits are male and I can't bare-knuckle box a male. Tell your gender to get their shit together globally. Oh. And stay out of our bathrooms. Until then, I'll continue to enjoy the Cabela's sales on ammo.

This is simply not true. I used to think after living in America, yeah, people are batshit crazy everywhere. But then I moved and realized this wasn't the case at all. I realized how far America had slipped in regards to respecting each other as human beings, and how we just accept that an era of common decency is long gone. That is simpy not the case. I live somewhere now where it's not Mayberry, but there is definitely no need to carry a gun to protect yourself from "batshit crazy," people. I now feel sorry for people who feel they need to live this way. I certainly did when I lived in the states - the feeling that anything could happen at anytime. But what a sweet relief, that I didn't even know I needed, to lay that mantle down.

by Anonymousreply 529August 7, 2022 9:42 AM

This is nothing new. Especially during the Vietnam War there were families escaping America for better political climates. (How do you think Mel Gibson got that Aussie accent.)

How it turned out for those families would make an interesting study.

by Anonymousreply 530August 7, 2022 10:45 AM

Are they keeping tabs? are a lot of people leaving or already left? Did you see the CPAC's results? fucking orange turd is their no.1 pick for candidate for POTUS

by Anonymousreply 531August 7, 2022 3:42 PM

[quote]This is simply not true.

Yes it is. And it will only get worse. Strange things are happening everywhere now since this pandemic has worsened the mental health of the general population. And again...female. Live alone.

I don't trust men near me. Anywhere. Don't ask why. I don't think I need to explain why.

by Anonymousreply 532August 7, 2022 6:06 PM

OK, r532 enjoy your secure furball hovel. Just make sure you can work the five sets of locks on your door in under 30 seconds in case one of your tabby's knocks over a candle.

by Anonymousreply 533August 7, 2022 7:39 PM

Stay pressed about it r533.

by Anonymousreply 534August 7, 2022 8:00 PM

If I were a financially independent Canadian, I’d move to Banff.

by Anonymousreply 535August 27, 2022 8:10 PM

Ozzy Orbourne is moving back to the UK.

by Anonymousreply 536August 29, 2022 3:22 AM

any update? moving anywhere soon?

by Anonymousreply 537September 14, 2022 3:52 PM

R536

by Anonymousreply 538September 14, 2022 4:55 PM
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