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Women Who Hate Women

Yes, plenty of old men are attacking women through legislation and court rulings.

They're not alone.

Women are half of the population globally. Women have to be complicit in causing harm to women when not all men are complicit. It's a numbers game.

These are only a few of the women who are enemies of women.

Why do so many do it? They're nothing but Uncle Toms with breasts.

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by Anonymousreply 150July 10, 2022 11:10 PM

You may be framing this incorrectly.

by Anonymousreply 1June 25, 2022 3:26 PM

The only way they can feel powerful or attractive is hurting or bringing down other women, OP. They are sick bitches with twisted hearts and minds.

by Anonymousreply 2June 25, 2022 3:27 PM

No one hates women more than other women.

by Anonymousreply 3June 25, 2022 3:28 PM

Worry about your own gay rights, OP, and stop concerning yourself with others and their motivations. They're coming for you soon, so stop wasting your energy on topics that don't concern you.

by Anonymousreply 4June 25, 2022 3:28 PM

My take is that there are women who define themselves based on their support of our long-standing caste system that places straight men (especially white men) at the top and of what are called "traditional gender roles". They also adhere to a very conservative religious mindset, or at least pretend to (e.g. I don't believe Ann Coulter goes to church any more than Trump does).

They have contempt for women who do not toe that line. Conservative women have always hated feminists though they are just fine with taking advantage of the advances for women that the feminist movement created.

In other words, they are hypocrites.

by Anonymousreply 5June 25, 2022 3:39 PM

Gallery of ugly hags...yikes.

by Anonymousreply 6June 25, 2022 3:41 PM

Some of these women like Coulter and Palin sold their soul to the dark side for fame and money. Others like Bachmann and that wonky-eyed fat bitch are batshit crazy true believers.

by Anonymousreply 7June 25, 2022 3:43 PM

OP and his WWs are retards. šŸ¤·ā€ā™‚ļø

by Anonymousreply 8June 25, 2022 3:44 PM

Can't speak for them all, but using my very Catholic aunt as an example, she genuinely doesn't see it as hating women, or even women's sexuality. She loves her gay nephew and is fine with some of her kids shacking up before marriage. For some women, it really is as simple as thinking abortion is the taking of an innocent life and therefore very little if anything can ever justify it.

by Anonymousreply 9June 25, 2022 3:45 PM

R3...You are so right about that.

by Anonymousreply 10June 25, 2022 3:58 PM

They were raised to do so.

Most of us were, if weā€™re of a certain age.

It takes life experience and education to reverse what was ingrained in all of us from childhood.

Even the media expounds and propagates it.

Self awareness is key, but being self aware means being self critical. Most people donā€™t want to re-examine themselves, men and women included.

by Anonymousreply 11June 25, 2022 4:00 PM

I can almost guarantee that Coulter and a few others are not unfamiliar with abortions.

by Anonymousreply 12June 25, 2022 4:00 PM

Doubt I'm the only one who noticed the large number of Black and apparently Latina women in the pro-life counter-protests.... culture and religion (esp. religion) play their roles, too, it's not as simple as 'internalized misogyny'.

by Anonymousreply 13June 25, 2022 4:01 PM

[quote] For some women, it really is as simple as thinking abortion is the taking of an innocent life and therefore very little if anything can ever justify it.

Yet, they adamantly support:

ā€”The death penalty, even recognizing innocent people have been put to death by it.

ā€”Assault weapons made solely for killing human beings en masse, even knowing they have been and will again be used to blow up the faces of small children inside their classrooms

ā€”All wars

ā€”The Catholic church, which continues to indoctrinate priests worldwide to rape little boys and then protects them, all of it paid for by members' donations.

Those women are disgusting human beings who are lying to themselves about what they care about.

by Anonymousreply 14June 25, 2022 4:02 PM

R13 The problem is not old white men. Clarence Thomas and Candace Owens are evidence of that.

The problem is not women of color.

The problem, the only common thread, are the Catholic church and American-style Christian churches. Almost without exception, they are the perpetrators that have demanded this and indoctrinated women and men of all colors to take this hypocrisy upon themselves.

Jesus of Nazareth has nothing to do with it. It's not about the teachings attributed to him. It's that churches in this country are hate groups that make everything us-versus-them.

by Anonymousreply 15June 25, 2022 4:06 PM

"Old white men" are the new boogie man under the bed, a stupid shallow and increasingly inaccurate and bigoted canard that is also counter-productive to positive change.

by Anonymousreply 16June 25, 2022 4:09 PM

Dworkin wrote an entire about it called Right Wing Women. It's pretty much what R5 said.

by Anonymousreply 17June 25, 2022 4:11 PM

Most straight women are just plain stupid, and many lesbians are just plain crazy. Straight men are dumb and arrogant and think they know everything. My old joke always was, "The three little words you'll never hear a man say are 'I don't know.'"

Gay men were always my favorite people in the world (until I came to DL).

by Anonymousreply 18June 25, 2022 4:18 PM

Fish are so physically - and every other way - disgusting that most everyone hates them!

by Anonymousreply 19June 25, 2022 4:20 PM

[quote] Gay men were always my favorite people in the world (until I came to DL).

I'm with you. Gay men were my favorite people until I moved to a neighborhood full of them and realized they are so discriminatory among other gay men that they basically have their own paper-bag test (except it's more like 'what gym do you go to?').

Ah, well.

Some people are lovely one on one and all people are absolute monstrous beings when collected into groups.

All of us.

by Anonymousreply 20June 25, 2022 4:23 PM

Well they have good reason in many cases.

by Anonymousreply 21June 25, 2022 4:25 PM

[quote] Gay men were always my favorite people in the world (until I came to DL).

Lol!

by Anonymousreply 22June 25, 2022 4:33 PM

Women hating other women is because patriarchy pits us against each other as chattel commodities.

by Anonymousreply 23June 25, 2022 5:40 PM

ā€œCrabs in a bucketā€ syndrome. ā€œPick meā€ tendencies. Ambition filtered through societal messages about what women are supposed to be and do. Seeking power through male approval. And on and on.

by Anonymousreply 24June 25, 2022 5:44 PM

Poor Lindsey thinks his loyalty will save him when they start shipping our people off to the camps.

by Anonymousreply 25June 25, 2022 5:49 PM

It's not just a political thing in all honesty. There's a certain subset of liberal women who will only defend women who they think straight men approve of. These are the same types who always go on about drinking male tears or whatever. But I agree that conservative Phyllis Schafly types are the biggest threat at the moment.

by Anonymousreply 26June 25, 2022 5:56 PM

What is this nonsense that ā€œno one hates women more than other womenā€? That is absolutely incorrect, no one hates women more than men, they rape, beat and murder them every single day in every single country of the world. Women who side with men over the interests of women always are rewarded whereas women who strongly speak out for the interests of women get aggressively put down and ridiculed. Both straight and gay men participate in This charade.

by Anonymousreply 27June 25, 2022 6:03 PM

Women generally, in my consistent lifelong experience, have perplexingly complex ways of relating to other women. I say this as a gay man whose friends have been 90 percent women.

I don't mean to say and I don't believe "all women hate all women."

What I mean is that we all know of the 'mean girls' phenomenon, and this extends into adulthood and the working world and even families.

Nearly every woman I know, from my mother and sister to all my women coworkers, has told me some version of "women are IMPOSSIBLE to work with" or "I HATE working with other women!" I have obnoxiously 'mansplained' to many that they are sending confusing messages and undermining their own efforts when they say things like that to men they work with while at the same time saying women are treated differently and compensated more poorly at work. It's just an objectively illogical, irrational kind of cognitive dissonanceā€”BUT it *isn't* cognitive dissonance to women, and that is what gets me.

Somehow, most women seem to be able to accept that (in their opinions) 1) women are undervalued and undercompensated at work and 2) women are uncooperative and impossible to work with.

All I argue is that, NO, women are not difficult to work with in most cases. In my experience, asshole women at work occur with the same frequency as asshole men, abd most of both are great to work with.

So these sorts of things throw me, hearing "girl power" and "we're all in this together" at 10:00 a.m. and then by 2:00 p.m. "Karen is such a fucking bitch just like every woman I've worked with" from a woman is bizarre to me.

Mind you, gay men do similar things and straight men never do.

by Anonymousreply 28June 25, 2022 6:16 PM

Workplaces dominated by women are horrible, but so are workplaces dominated by men. I've seen and worked in both. Balance is needed.

by Anonymousreply 29June 25, 2022 6:19 PM

Because our culture is still misogynistic. Women grow up in that culture the same way men do and internalize the messages. So their female boss being critical or stern triggers an unconscious trip wire, like how dare this *woman* tell me what to do! Iā€™m a committed feminist and find myself interrupting my female boss sometimes in a way Iā€™ve never done to a male boss. Weā€™re all swimming in this shit.

by Anonymousreply 30June 25, 2022 6:19 PM

R30 How long have you been committed? What's it really like in there? I'm surprised they give you Internet access.

by Anonymousreply 31June 25, 2022 6:29 PM

Yeah, empathy is obviously the sign of a damaged mind.

by Anonymousreply 32June 25, 2022 6:58 PM

Why is every issue that all women don't agree on framed as "women hate other women"? Liberal men and conservative men don't agree on most big issues including abortion, yet no one ever claims they hate each other (but they do, in fact, hate each other. Many men will undermine, sabotage, beat, torture and even kill any man they consider competition).

Many women have an intense love for, and devotion to children, even unborn fetuses, whom they consider to be children. It doesn't mean they "hate women", and nor does it mean that once a child is born they won't care for a child. On the contrary, many anti-abortion women are the ones rolling up their sleeves to do the monotonous, life sucking care of those children, whether those children are related to them or not.

by Anonymousreply 33June 26, 2022 2:07 AM

Soledad delivered a 'Sure, Jan!'

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by Anonymousreply 34June 26, 2022 10:46 AM

R28 "straight" men don't have to behave that way.

Power and privilege. Everyone else is only accommodated depending on how well they can wrangle the system.

Women learned long ago to wrangle the system in the small ways they could through the social network and still fall back on it regularly. Unfortunately, it's also the passive aggressive petty backbiting network, because it has to be indirect in its workings.

Power and privilege doesn't have to be, so it isn't.

by Anonymousreply 35June 26, 2022 10:54 AM

Every woman who supports men who identify as women and misappropriate women's rights, protections and spaces.

I'm looking at you for starters, Nancy.

No matter what your mouth says, your actions erase women and disempower them.

by Anonymousreply 36June 26, 2022 11:08 AM

My theory is women are instinctively competitive with each other because biologically fighting for the win better ensures your offspringā€™s survival. We have leftover traits from being cave people and animals but they still play out in the modern world. It makes me feel less bad when a random woman is a beeyotch to me

by Anonymousreply 37June 26, 2022 11:17 AM

R37 Yes, that's why these conservative women hate feminists because thanks to them soon many of them can't just spread their legs anymore in order to have a husband that earns enough so they can sit at home taking care of their brats. As someone else mentioned here in the thread, these conservative heauxs are hypocrites because they also use some of the beneftis feminism gave them:

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by Anonymousreply 38June 26, 2022 3:02 PM

r38

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by Anonymousreply 39June 26, 2022 3:08 PM

[quote] Power and privilege. Everyone else is only accommodated depending on how well they can wrangle the system.

Tangent, but I have never been able to assimilate to the finger-wagging, shaming connotation of the word privilege. It really irks me to hear people say "YOU HAVE PRIVILEGE!!!" when basically throwing scarlet letters at them and hoping they will be shunned. The term 'privilege' in my lifetime (44 y/o) always has been extremely positive in natureā€”membership has its privileges, etc. It means 'benefits,' not 'unearned advantages.' I am very weirded out by how within a couple of years a term that always has had an entirely positive connotation has become the ultimate condemnation, and how people just throw it around at other people like some kind of weapon. Extremely bizarre.

by Anonymousreply 40June 26, 2022 3:15 PM

Women don't hate or hurt women any more than men do. But there's a lot of crypto conservative women out there. They often loudly identify as liberal but they secretly seem to hold a lot of resentment towards certain types of women. Older women, less stereotypically feminine women, loud women, aggressive women, gay women, female comedians.. They always seem to participate in online witch hunts for women not sufficiently delicate or compliant or whatever. See the " Karen" phenomenon. My theory is they were burned by the hook up culture and feel they would have been better off circa 1960 and blame non traditional women for that. Never mind that mid century mores led to a lot of misery as well. They are willing to talk all day about rape culture but don't want to discuss how raging at every women deemed not sufficiently passive and compliant might be part of the problem..

by Anonymousreply 41June 26, 2022 3:23 PM

[quote] The only way they can feel powerful or attractive is hurting or bringing down other women, OP.

You mean like how OP is doing that by attacking other women?

by Anonymousreply 42June 26, 2022 3:25 PM

[quote] Women don't hate or hurt women any more than men do.

I didn't suggest that women hate or hurt women more than men do. Or as much as men do.

The question is why so many women hate or hurt women's interests generallyā€”and a huge share of women do. It doesn't have to be as many as there are men.

Asking "Why are there Uncle Toms and Candace Olsens who are black and work against black people's interests?" is not the same as asking "why do all black people everywhere hate black people?" or "why do as many black people as white people hate black people?"

The question I asked is about the nature of the hatred, not about comparisons with men.

by Anonymousreply 43June 26, 2022 3:31 PM

The key fighters in defeating both the ERA and Roe were women.

For the ERA it was Phyllis Schlafly. For Roe it was Marjorie Dannenfelser. Women hurting women.

And of course both RBG and ACB had key roles to play in Dobbs. If either one of them had acted differently, Roe would still be law and women would still have reproductive autonomy.

Yet all Iā€™m seeing on social meds is a male oppression of women narrative. Old men are to blame, apparently.

You know, like the seven ā€œold menā€ who issued the Roe decision?

by Anonymousreply 44June 26, 2022 3:55 PM

^^^ media

by Anonymousreply 45June 26, 2022 3:56 PM

You'll get use to it honey.

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by Anonymousreply 46June 26, 2022 3:59 PM

[quote] Women hating other women is because patriarchy pits us against each other as chattel commodities.

Why do women allow themselves to be pitted against one another?

by Anonymousreply 47June 26, 2022 4:04 PM

A lot of gay men are jealous of straight women ? I wonder why?

by Anonymousreply 48June 26, 2022 4:12 PM

People don't talk about social engineering but that is why we have the society we have. Why is it that Black people are considered to be responsible for everything wrong in society when they do not hold power? They don't create poverty, they don't create job shortages, they don't create racism and inequality but somehow the Black community is seen as the center of all that is wrong in American life. Why do we believe this? Because we have been told what to think about Black people and about ourselves by the powers that be. During news broadcasts, at churches, in movies and tv shows, by the men and women that raised us. We are never encouraged to question what we are told or look further into things that don't make sense if you really stop to think about them.

We think what we think because we have been engineered to think that way, it's on purpose and it has always benefited the straight (and in some cases self hating gays like Roy Cohn) white guys who run everything.

by Anonymousreply 49June 26, 2022 4:18 PM

r49 yes!

by Anonymousreply 50June 26, 2022 4:19 PM

r49 that should be put on a billboard everywhere!

by Anonymousreply 51June 26, 2022 4:20 PM

Exactly R49. And the patriarchy sustains itself by pitting women against each other while men stay in power and blame women for their condition.

by Anonymousreply 52June 26, 2022 4:21 PM

[quote] Yet all Iā€™m seeing on social meds is a male oppression of women narrative.

There's a reason for that. It's very telling that dangerous women are committed to your mind and memory and dangerous men are not. And the fact that men will never experience pregnancy or abortion make their actions doubly egregious

by Anonymousreply 53June 26, 2022 4:22 PM

Fucking race-baiter at r49 has to drag black people into this. What the hell do they have to do with this discussion?

by Anonymousreply 54June 26, 2022 4:29 PM

The crab barrel mentality happens among women in that the women who support patriarchy want whatever they can get out of men so they tow the line and don't want independent women fucking it up for them. So, conservative women are fine giving up rights as long as they are taken care of, this goes for so called liberal women too. There are liberal women who choose to not stand up for equality if it will make their lives more difficult.

The white guy game has always been blame the victim whether it's women or minorities, this way no one every sees them as the problem. As a gay guy I saw long ago that our community would be freer if women had more power, most women do not have a problem with us and even want to support us but we do not often return that support.

by Anonymousreply 55June 26, 2022 4:30 PM

It was an example r54 that stands in contrast enough to make a point about how opinions are manipulated. If the example was not clear to you then you are just too stupid to be part of this discussion.

Get on your broom and get the fuck out before someone drops a house on you.

by Anonymousreply 56June 26, 2022 4:33 PM

Phyllis Schlafly and F Carolyn Graglia, the ultimate female misongynists.

by Anonymousreply 57June 26, 2022 4:35 PM

Men give women everything. Women don't need to work because men are willing to support them even past their reproductive years. Women are children and will whine no matter what.

by Anonymousreply 58June 26, 2022 4:35 PM

R49 there are 55 African countries. Why don't u go to one of them???? You were freed(unfortunately) so go.

by Anonymousreply 59June 26, 2022 4:39 PM

[quote] As a gay guy I saw long ago that our community would be freer if women had more power, most women do not have a problem with us and even want to support us but we do not often return that support.

So, basically you think of women as useful idiots. What women would go along with that?

by Anonymousreply 60June 26, 2022 4:42 PM

Yes, r56. I'm too stupid and yet, you make an example not related to the topic, when there are a million examples to be had. Anything to draw to attention to you and your issues. Narcissistic much? Black people on this site need to go to LSA or the root to discuss their issues. After all, they all know white people are irredeemably racist,so why bother talking about your issues to us.

by Anonymousreply 61June 26, 2022 4:47 PM

Iā€™m a white woman and couldnā€™t agree more. Itā€™s self-hating white women who got us into this mess.

by Anonymousreply 62June 26, 2022 4:51 PM

sad

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by Anonymousreply 63June 26, 2022 4:55 PM

[quote] Women hating other women is because patriarchy pits us against each other as chattel commodities.

The ā€œPatriarchyā€ is about as real as the ā€œProtocols of the Elders of Zion,ā€ and serves much the same purpose.

There is no male plot against women. Gender relationships have arisen over thousands of years of civilization. The idea that thereā€™s a plot is one of the many absurdities of neo-progressivism. It reminds me of ā€œwhite privilege.ā€ Neo-progs are hellbent on destroying liberalism and establishing rightwing authoritarianism.

by Anonymousreply 64June 26, 2022 5:26 PM

"On the contrary, many anti-abortion women are the ones rolling up their sleeves to do the monotonous, life sucking care of those children, whether those children are related to them or not."

I call bullshit on that. Prove your point with valid statistics - we're not just going to take your word for it. And naming a couple of examples doesn't count as proof.

by Anonymousreply 65June 26, 2022 5:37 PM

[quote] And the patriarchy sustains itself by pitting women against each other while men stay in power and blame women for their condition.

Why do women allow themselves to be manipulated in such a way? Are women not aware of this patriarchal conspiracy against them or are they just powerless against it?

by Anonymousreply 66June 26, 2022 6:08 PM

R3, must be why most people who beat, rape, and murder women are....men

by Anonymousreply 67June 26, 2022 6:11 PM

Yeah op youā€™re right. Remember how many white women voted for Trump?

by Anonymousreply 68June 26, 2022 6:12 PM

R64 is here to pretend that sexism and racism don't exist. Pretending white privilege isn't real even though few white people would ever trade places with a black person

by Anonymousreply 69June 26, 2022 6:13 PM

R68....most non-white women did not vote for Trump, so what's your point?

by Anonymousreply 70June 26, 2022 6:16 PM

Phyllis Schlafly was my first encounter with this type of cunt. Even as a little kid I could tell she was deranged, but she played upon womenā€™s deepest fears/dreams: that if they werenā€™t feminine enough Prince Valiant wouldnā€™t come along to sweep them away into a life where they wouldnā€™t have to fight to be so independent. Thatā€™s what boomer gals slayed their values and the E R A for, all for uncle Ronnie and ambitious yuppie husbands to take care of them. Maybe it worked out better for the trophy wives.

by Anonymousreply 71June 26, 2022 6:33 PM

Lol (and OMG), OP.

For a full minute I thought that was Trumper Kimberlin Brown in first pic, second row. Then I realized it was Nikki Haley.

But both of them look like an ugly, unkempt version of Lucie Arnaz, so I shouldn't be surprised.

by Anonymousreply 72June 26, 2022 6:35 PM

Iā€™m not convinced half of those in OPā€™s pic are women

by Anonymousreply 73June 26, 2022 6:38 PM

But we ALL hate trans.

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by Anonymousreply 74June 26, 2022 10:30 PM

You might as well add Maureen Dowd to that. She's been lying about Hillary Clinton for years under the guise of wit and, later, RBG. Her family is full of conservatives and she is not really different than they are. She just has a veneer of urban sophistication over her ugly spirit.

by Anonymousreply 75June 26, 2022 11:54 PM

R75 I frequently see comments complaining on twitter or NYT comments about Dowd. Always saying why don't the editors fire her, etc. But the reality is her misogyny, homophobia and bigotry are why the editors have kept her on so long. She says all the things these creepy and covertly angry Ivy League nerds desperately want to. And yeah, the " urbane sophisticated" conservatives are the absolute worst. Not only bigoted but honestly even nastier and colder than their hillbilly counterparts. The Hilary Clinton animosity gets a lot of attention but she seems to despise every female Democrat and most male democrats wives as well. I still remember when NYT gave her a mouthpiece to bitch at Judy Steinberg Dean for not quitting her job as a doctor to support Howard ( who NYT hated as well just not as much as they hated Judith) and wearing casual clothes with no makeup at rallies.

by Anonymousreply 76June 27, 2022 12:28 AM

D76 You describe those journalists in a sweeping caricature...but it's probably a pretty accurate one.

The Times has done some great reporting, obviously. Their digging into Trump's tax history and financial crimes was important even if law enforcement and Congress all chose to ignore it.

But hearing NYT journalists on podcasts nowadays is disheartening a lot of the time for various reasons, one of them being that they sound full of themselves. The ways they objectify poorer and minority people a lot of the time while reporting about them is disconnected and undermines what they are saying.

'Journalists' of notiriety generally just are not salt-of-the-Earth people anymore. Dowd is a creepy zombie lady these days. Her face is a mask that doesn't move, her manner of speech is lazy and self-superior sounding. Her interactions with Bill Maher are really disgusting to me, even setting aside what they say specifically. He's a multimillionaire who owns part of a baseball team and boos his audience when they don't laugh at his bad jokes; she's a 70-year-old flirty girl who giggles and tosses her hair around seductively. And they pretend to understand average people. So fucking weird.

Meanwhile, Anderson Cooper is an heiress whose only friends are Andy Cohenā€”so close, they are, that they bought sons at the same timeā€”and minor celebrties in Cohen's Bravo cire.

And Don Lemon's whole Instagram is dedicated to showing off his ostentatious lifestyle in Sag Harbor and on yachts with celebrities.

There's some cognitive dissonance in seeing and hearing these people paid many millions of dollars to broadcast their extreme wealth and starfucking lifestyles while reporting on people who are marginalized and wrongly arrested, shot or raped, while simultaneously showcasing multimillion-dollar homes, extravagant vacations and celebrity lifestyles on their social media accounts.

I don't believe in journalism anymore. I do in a way but I don't trust journalists anymore. It's like being a doctor: it's a noble profession if a person goes into it because they want to help people or even if they are just fascinated with anatomy and how things work, but it's an obscene professional choice if people choose it for earning potential alone.

by Anonymousreply 77June 27, 2022 10:19 AM

They hate liberal whores since they are so pure and love Jesus LOL

by Anonymousreply 78June 27, 2022 10:28 AM

Phyllis shafely was born in 1924 she was far from being a boomer. I am an early boomer and I was born in 1950. The earliest boomer was born in 1946 or 47. In 1970 when the 2nd wave hit big I was 20 years and joined the women's movement. Don't blame everything on boomers

by Anonymousreply 79June 27, 2022 10:28 AM

You're absolutely right OP, all women should all think, act and vote the same way.

by Anonymousreply 80June 27, 2022 11:13 AM

Women "allow themselves" because they have been traditionally dependent on others during critical periods of their lives (pregnancy and child rearing), and were legally tied to male relatives in such a way that they could not stand alone and act. To do so would mean destruction of them and their children in a system entirely engineered by men.

I believe after women with children and the elderly, unmarried later age women are the highest percentage in poverty. We not only don't earn the same but due to child rearing being primarily on our heads, we often can't because our time and energy is elsewhere.

This thread is the definition of male privilege, and you don't even believe in the concept although it is a genuine one. Some are born with rights and social standing already a given in their lives based on what parents, what zip code, what color their skin is and what's between their legs. They are unearned rights which the rest of as either have to somehow "earn" through our own efforts or can never earn due to what we had no control over. If you deny that this exists, you are the extreme product of it and naturally can't see what you have never lacked for.

The trick with patriarchy and all oppressive systems is that you have to make the slaves regulate themselves of the system won't work. Every woman is essentially on her own in her relationship with a man and she knows full well that not only can he hurt and abuse her, makes more money and has more rights and latitude for acting. She is tied by her need to keep herself and any children she has safe, and her male relatives (and female ones as well)often try to make her reconcile with him because they can't afford to help and don't see it as their job to do so, and often worry that the mom and kids will be worse off because financially that is the case.

A lone woman is prey to anything and the social structure for thousands of years has worked to make sure she stays aware of the risk in that position.

The people posting in this thread would have been wondering aloud why the American slaves "allowed themselves" to be enslaved and mistreated. Of course you privileged males never see the bars on the cage because you are not inside one. You are outside and your question on why "women allow themselves to be victims" helps keep the bars up.

by Anonymousreply 81June 27, 2022 1:00 PM

you mean like Pelosi, the mummy or filthy hoe AOC? and what's the name of that hiedous ginger who's Biden's spokeperson?

by Anonymousreply 82June 27, 2022 1:54 PM

Just like the Clarence Thomas's of the world will side with the most virulent right wingers because of the history of white supremacy - many women will side with right wing men over women because of patriarchy. You're usually rewarded pretty well for it. The right wing/fascists love a useful idiot.

by Anonymousreply 83June 27, 2022 1:58 PM

R82 Fat repig , itā€™s spelled hideous and it fits you.

by Anonymousreply 84June 27, 2022 1:58 PM

[quote] The people posting in this thread would have been wondering aloud why the American slaves "allowed themselves" to be enslaved and mistreated. Of course you privileged males never see the bars on the cage because you are not inside one. You are outside and your question on why "women allow themselves to be victims" helps keep the bars up.

No. I am wondering along the equivalent of "Why are some black Americans, who were released from slavery 50 years ago (equivalent to Roe V Wade passing 50 years ago) trying to reinstate slavery?"

It's not a question accusing people trapped in a system of being responsible for that system.

It's a question of trying to understand why people who were trapped in a system and then given legal rights and freedoms would work to have freedoms revoked from them. It doesn't make any sense rationally.

The only explanation is psychological and that is what I am probing into.

And I will go so far as to say that the premise of my question is that women had and deserve equal rights under the law, and that is because they are equal as human beings, and equality means holding people equally accountable when they are hypocritical. I question hypocritical men and women alike because I believe men and women have equal value, equal intellects, equal potentials, and they are equally prone to being flawed and making mistakes and even being bad people.

Women are half of the human population, they are full human beings with different anatomies and hormonal balances than men, they deserve equal rights, and they can be idiots and assholes just as easily as men can be.

I admit I have one major sexual bias, which is that I believe mothers have a power no father and no other role model or authority can have to create good or very flawed people, and I honor them for that absolutely. Otherwise, I don't hold women precious or fragile or beyond reproach. My mother's will, my sister's will, my grandmothers' wills and my female friends' wills are strong and they do not require being treated with kid gloves. That is patronizing and demeaning.

Women who do questionable things such as revoking women's rights deserve to be questioned. If you think women are too precious or too meek or too victimized to be held to this standard, then I am afraid you are a misogynist who thinks less of women than you do of other human beings.

by Anonymousreply 85June 27, 2022 2:12 PM

[quote]ā€œCrabs in a bucketā€ syndrome. ā€œPick meā€ tendencies. Ambition filtered through societal messages about what women are supposed to be and do. Seeking power through male approval. And on and on.

The 21st-century version of this seems to be the "Not Like Other Girls" mindset.

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by Anonymousreply 86June 27, 2022 2:15 PM

Exactly R85. The early second wave was asking for just that. No special treatment but to have equal rights. They should not have to be treated with kid gloves and I would never want anyone to treat me like that. I only ask for equal rights. If I fuck up that is on me.

by Anonymousreply 87June 27, 2022 2:19 PM

Ending a system de jure is not the same thing as ending it de facto and you know that.

Simply passing laws does not magically change entrenched social systems.

Women who want to have children and some latitude in life will take the patriarchy mostly trade role because in their cultural circle, it's likely a safer bet and it is socially rewarded.

If marriage and children provided no benefits, then why did gays want in on that at all?

Some people will take any crappy job they can get for lack of a clear path to an alternative.

Ending slavery and Jim Crow didn't magically make the former slaves equal to the rest of society. Poverty is a social choice made by those who aren't poor, and the root cause of many social issues. Just like black people still have to contend with an adversarial social system AND economic chains of poverty, women have to deal with the same plus trying to do what is best for dependant offspring.

by Anonymousreply 88June 27, 2022 2:52 PM

Women need to start demanding support from the father the second they know their pregnant and sue for arrears from when they got pregnant. Plus, medical care and housing.

Plus a mink coat.

by Anonymousreply 89June 27, 2022 2:57 PM

[quote] I admit I have one major sexual bias, which is that I believe mothers have a power no father and no other role model or authority can have to create good or very flawed people

That's not true at all. Read some studies on the lack of a strong father on children and what it does to them. Hell, look at this place and see how messed up a lot of people are because of their father issues. What you're saying is just another way to assert women's place as breeders only.

by Anonymousreply 90June 27, 2022 3:08 PM

Mothers and fathers naturally play different roles in the lives of their children at different times in the child's life. Obviously, they also play similar roles as well in some aspects. I suppose you can say that there are opportunities to fuck up a child at each of these stages.

Mothers and fathers in nature complement each other.

by Anonymousreply 91June 27, 2022 3:13 PM

Boys especially teen boys need fathers as role models. Of course, a lot of men are not suitable role models. But teenage boys don't respond to women's voices and they need a strong man to keep their thumb on them.

by Anonymousreply 92June 27, 2022 3:21 PM

R90 I admitted it's a bias. It's an inherent beliefā€”like people's faithsā€”that resides outside of scientific evidence. My relationship and my sister's relationship with our mother is different than our relationship with our father, and our father is equally important and deeply loved, but he played less of a role in shaping us. My sister and my mother were always at odds. My mother was my best friend. She died four years ago. (Agonizing Trump/COVID/insurrection/this SCOTUS may have killed her had she been alive today.) Since she died, my sister has slowly been realizing her importance in forming who we are and what we believe in. She has been texting me semi-regularly for a couple of years to say "Mom was right about EVERYTHING. She knew EVERYTHING."

I know all relationships are different, but I do believe that a mother, present or not, is the kernel from which a whole person grows. I guess that's part of a personal unorthodox religion.

by Anonymousreply 93June 27, 2022 3:31 PM

R93 Mothers and daughters are historically fraught with love but sometimes love/hate. Mothers have better relationships with their sons. A lot of women coddle their sons. And daughters have better relationships with their fathers. that is why both are important. But thinking of my own mother, she had much more influence on me than anyone else in my life even though growing up we often fought. But when I got older we were friends because my mother let me go and didn't try to run my life. we had good times together after I grew up.

by Anonymousreply 94June 27, 2022 3:38 PM

R85 = just the usual, standard, media-enforced Mom worship.

by Anonymousreply 95June 27, 2022 3:42 PM

R83 but how much of a useful idiot are you when you get rewarded? These women surely don't care about wanting an abortion so they willingly stay with a hot, rich right wing guy that takes care of them. Many conservative women seem to prefer this over being a free woman, yet these conservative women who do that will complain about a patriarchy too despite the fact that they benefit from that system on purpose. Is this actually worse than a feminist who still wants her dinner bill paid?

by Anonymousreply 96June 27, 2022 8:20 PM

The system of trade and commerce/capitalism/the patriarchy that every human society lives under to varying degrees rewards people for exhibiting male traits. Naturally, people who exhibit female traits are disenfranchised by this, so in order to obtain status, they have to attach themselves to a man.

Being attached to a man puts women in competition with other women because men are always looking around for younger and more attractive, so the mere existence of other women is threatening on a fundamental level. That's why conservative women are obsessed with sexual matters - revealing clothes, pornography, promiscuity - everything is about restricting opportunities for them to lose their status by losing their man. Abortion is a particular cause celebre because it allows women to be sexually active without consequences.

This can never change without wholesale reform of the economics of society so that feminine traits are rewarded that will never happen.

by Anonymousreply 97June 27, 2022 8:26 PM

You people are having false conversations about reasoning processes and people you've made up out of whole cloth in your mind.

The reality is, if a woman wants to exist in this world she has to acclimate to some loss of power and agency. It's just a matter of choosing which path of acclimation one is going to take. Hetero and want kids? You are probably going to adhere to some more "traditional" path by necessity as long as you're not so wealthy that you can choose whatever path you want and pay for the support you need.

At some point some of it is just a numbers game and the one who has the money/income is deferred to. Usually that is still the male though I have heard more husbands are giving up on career because their wife makes more and someone has to care for house and kids.

The entire social system since we have had agro hierarchy has been utterly reliant upon unpaid or very poorly paid women and children, or slaves throughout history. The ones who aren't doing this unpaid/poorly paid work essentially use those who do as parasites.

Either that or give it all up and go live on Lesbos.

by Anonymousreply 98June 27, 2022 8:29 PM

R97 I agree with you but can you also explain why feminists are also concerned with censorship when it comes to attractive women in tv, film, gaming etc and why many of them are against heterosexual porn to the point they even say that gay porn is misogynistic? Or when feminists made sure that these trophy girls(?) at racing events basically lost their job because certain events didn't hire them anymore? Can it be that this competitiveness is natural in plenty of women and will always exist until these specific individuals are bred out of the gene pool?

by Anonymousreply 99June 27, 2022 8:41 PM

R99 I think feminists have issue with porn because it's such a visible (and ugly) symbol of men possessing women. It's the wrong target, but it's easy one.

by Anonymousreply 100June 27, 2022 8:54 PM

Porn is commercialization of people's bodies and therefore lives as commodities.

Anyone who thinks about it for a few moments beyond its base utility (indeed because of its utility) should question porn.

by Anonymousreply 101June 27, 2022 9:45 PM

But everyone and their brother will line up around the block in the US to defend porn. And military small arms and sugar water and church and whatever else they are selling. But especially porn. My movie about people being choked and gagged and beaten and violently fucked is free speech, bro.

by Anonymousreply 102June 27, 2022 9:51 PM

Let's go on the porn tangent.

I grew up watching Bill Maher and I appreciated his non-partisan ideas about a lot of thingsā€”back when he was an environmentalist and no one else was. He gave up the cause of environmentalism a long time ago now, which is a great disappointment, and he has been a great disappointment since.

Although Hugh Hefner died many years ago and he was about 114 when he died, Maher still reminisces about his days at the Playboy mansion and using it as a calling card for his 'coolness,' which I find incredibly creepy.

BUT Maher did something last week I totally agree with. He went on a tirade against porn today, and he was speaking of hetero porn. I don't think he even mentioned the incest component that's so prevalent today and pretty disturbing, but he went on about how porn today is about humiliation and features men choking women. He said "I don't even get it. I don't get it. That's new and it's scary"ā€”or something to that effect.

He's right. I'm 44 and I have watched gay porn since my late teens and it used to feature sex among men. Lots of bad acting but generally scenarios that were standard porn tropesā€”the pizza delivery guy, sex clubs, wrestling, etc. Now the porn sites all feature father-and-son or brother-and-brother storylines that are always abusive scenarios. They feature choking. They feature someone being tied up and wincing as they are prodded. I have to sort through a dozen of these to get to one video that's not child sexual abuse translated into a performance with adults.

And of course online, running into some straight porn is inevitable even though I don't look for or want to see it and I see what Maher describes. What I notice even in fleeting clips is that 1) straight porn used to feature fat, disgusting looking middle-aged men and now most seems to feature attractive young Instaho-type guys who look more like gay porn actors and 2) choking.

I haven't sampled straight porn like I have gay porn but the few clips that show up here and there always seem to involve choking. I don't think it is normal or healthy at all. Yes, I have heard people talk about asphyxiation heightening sexual pleasure. That's not what it is about in porn. Porn scenarios are never about pleasure; people contort into uncomfortable positions and do more acrobatics than they do things that look pleasurable. Women don't appear to ever choke men in porn; it's always a man twice the size of a woman holding her down by her neck and her eyes rolling back and her tongue lolling out while she gags.

I find it horrific, and I think it's insanely weird that in this era in which women really are closer than ever to equal in society regardless of the recent change to abortion laws, and women strongly voice opinions and control a lot, men choking women who appear to be on the verge of choking to death in porn is totally mainstream and seems to be considered normal sex by millennials.

A commentator on Bill Maher's show said a young woman she knows confessed to her that she doesn't like to be choked during sexā€”it hurts and it scares herā€”and her boyfriend resents her for it and she asked if it's OK that she refuses to let her boyfriend choke her. She thinks it's the normal thing to do and she's being a prude who refuses to make her man happy. Fucking crazy.

by Anonymousreply 103June 28, 2022 10:01 AM

Here is how I respond to this accusation that anyone who criticizes women who cause harm to women is a misogynist on the grounds that there are historic and existing systemic reasons why women might betray women to get an advantage: that's an explanation of a pathology, not an excuse for abuse.

It's just like child abuse. Most child abusers were abused as children. They are repeating the pattern of child abuse. It is sad, tragic even, that they were abused as children. It is pitiable. I am sympathetic to that. It is no excuse for causing harm to children.

To say Christian women are motivated to take rights away from all women because of a patriarchal cultureā€”yes, granted.

To say I can't criticize those women for acting idiotically against their own interest and question why they won't stop is to enable it to continue unchecked.

No.

The wheel has to be broken. Women who are enemies to women should be shamed for it and stopped from doing it even understanding that the reasons they may do it may have been influences beyond their control.

I believe women are equally valuable as human beings as men are and their rights should be the same. Women who impede that, like men who impede it, should be disempowered so that women can live as freely as men do.

by Anonymousreply 104June 28, 2022 3:36 PM

R104 Maybe conservative women want women to have equal rights with men again and oppose sexism by removing women's rights? Is that what people call a paradox?

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by Anonymousreply 105June 28, 2022 5:51 PM

Women are already disempowered in the system and their coping and adjustment skills reflect that.

There was a famous international film about female circumcision a few decades back that explored these concepts.

Why do you think most women have complicated relationships with their mothers? Because part of being a women in a system that disempowers women is to teach each other how to acclimate and adjust to that.

It's not enough to say "don't do it". The society is going backwards in an attempt to further disempower women. Instructing each other in these coping methods, as dysfunctional as they are, is how women were able to survive and have any latitude at all.

Show me a world where women have full rights, including over their reproduction, and full economic equality and then come back in 50 years of that system being in place and then give your little speeches about "don't be evil".

by Anonymousreply 106June 29, 2022 9:52 PM

Women who hate women, are the nastiest women in the world.

by Anonymousreply 107June 29, 2022 10:36 PM

Would women who hate women be Misogynettes?

by Anonymousreply 108June 30, 2022 2:31 AM

R106 like this coping mechanism?

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by Anonymousreply 109June 30, 2022 9:26 AM

[R84] go choke on dog shit, hideous demoncrap!

by Anonymousreply 110July 4, 2022 3:46 AM

"Women who want to have children and some latitude in life will take the patriarchy mostly trade role because in their cultural circle, it's likely a safer bet and it is socially rewarded."

What you're missing is that it's incredibly difficult and economically ruinous for women to have and raise children without a spouse, and for most women, that means a male spouse. A spouse whose departure will mean a financial disaster to most people with dependent children, so once a woman has married a man and reproduced, there's a huge financial incentive to do whatever it takes to keep him around.

Single women and lesbians have a far easier time telling patriarchal systems to shove it, at least they do if they earn enough to live independently. But the fact is that the majority of humans are heterosexual and the majority of humans want children, and the economic systems of the world are all rigged to keep women from being able to raise children on their own.

by Anonymousreply 111July 4, 2022 4:52 AM

Andrea Dworkin already explained all of this, so long ago that everyone thought she was 100% mental.

by Anonymousreply 112July 4, 2022 11:26 AM

All white people do not think alike. all black people do not think alike. All women do not share the same beliefs. Why is that a big surprise?

by Anonymousreply 113July 4, 2022 12:19 PM

R111 R112 That's why we need to reprimand women, so that they make better decisions in life. Women need to upgrade from leeches to providers in order to fight the system.

Here is a quote from the article below:

"A funny thing about the ā€œwage gapā€ is that itā€™s very strong evidence for female privilege. In emerging economies like India or China (40% of engineers in China are women), when a woman from the peasant class has a shot at university, she does not waste it studying dance or pottery painting or Womenā€™s Studies. She grabs a STEM degree, because it assures her a labor market position that will allow her to rescue her entire family from dire poverty. Women in the first world donā€™t have to worry about that and are free to earn degrees in thinking, talking, reading, feeling and taking care of little kids because they always have an option.

They can exploit a man through his walletā€¦"

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by Anonymousreply 114July 5, 2022 1:41 PM

It suits the patriarchy down to the ground to have women separated, disorganised, and envious or jealous or distrustful of one another.

Which is why women are trained from birth to compete with each other in humiliating ways, over men as well as over trivial consumerism and scraps of attention.

by Anonymousreply 115July 5, 2022 8:38 PM

R71, that didn't always work out, even for the best of us trophy wives. R97 is correct!

by Anonymousreply 116July 5, 2022 9:58 PM

R116 But to be fair you're a Data Lounge Icon. How many trophy wives can say that?

by Anonymousreply 117July 5, 2022 10:12 PM

OP, you mean like when Sandra Bernhard tweeted that she hoped Sarah Palin would get gang raped by black guys and the video be put on the internet for people to laugh at and jerk off to?

by Anonymousreply 118July 5, 2022 10:15 PM

R103, I've seen some weird choking scenes in straight porn, and I don't see the point. I can kind of understand some light hand-on-the-throat action as a dominant gesture while in the act of passionate sex. But I've seen a few scenes where the parties actually stop having sex, walk over to the couch, and the man just chokes her, puts her in a headlock, maybe until she turns red. Then they walk back over to the bed and start having sex again. WTF. How is that sexy? Who gets turned on by that...serial killers?

by Anonymousreply 119July 5, 2022 11:16 PM

R119 I wish a man would treat me that way

by Anonymousreply 120July 7, 2022 8:44 AM

R119 so many men deep down hate, fear and envy women. The choking trend is just a physical expression of that hatred.

by Anonymousreply 121July 7, 2022 9:52 AM

I'd be curious to know who watches the straight choking porn. Women supposedly account for 1/3 of porn website viewers. Do they seek out the choking stuff, or is it mainly watched by men? That would make a big difference if women want to watch that. If women are into it, then it's some kind of assault/overpowerment fantasy. If they aren't, and if it's made for men by men, then it's fantasy about violently assaulting women being conflated with sex, and that is extremely disturbing.

Likewise, I want to know more about who creates gay porn and who watches what types and why.

I hate that a majority of gay porn scenes involve either a gay man tricking a straight man into sex or else blackmailing him or else seducing him in a moment of desperation, and the straight man reluctantly participating. That's not really gay sex. That's a power dynamic, with a gay man having the upper hand and getting sexual satisfaction out of a straight man who doesn't really want to participate.

I get that that is a fantasy of many gay men, but I don't believe that most gay men prefer that to sex with other gay men, and I think it's fucked up in a lot of ways that porn so disproportionately shows this. There's so little representation of gay-on-gay sex within gay porn, whether shown to be intimate or just a cold fuck, and I think that is really weird. Who is behind the creation of these scenes this way, and do viewers really prefer this? Most gay porn to me is more appropriately called 'straight coersion porn.'

by Anonymousreply 122July 7, 2022 10:11 AM

R122 I prefer sex with closeted straight men over gay men, although they are then actually bisexual I guess but whatever. I don't understand though why so many sound like grannies on here talking about violent porn? You know sex crime went down in countries where porn got more widespread? So I rather let some straight guy watch women get choked in a porn video than in real life.

by Anonymousreply 123July 7, 2022 10:32 AM

[quote] grannies on here talking about violent porn? You know sex crime went down in countries where porn got more widespread? So I rather let some straight guy watch women get choked in a porn video than in real life.

R123 a real woman would have to get choked to film a p0rn scene of the kind you describe...

by Anonymousreply 124July 7, 2022 1:30 PM

They are deeply psychologically damaged.

by Anonymousreply 125July 7, 2022 1:59 PM

Women aren't people they're WOMEN.

by Anonymousreply 126July 7, 2022 2:10 PM

R111 either I wrote badly or you understood poorly, because you simply reframed what I said.

by Anonymousreply 127July 7, 2022 2:41 PM

R124 but she consented to it. Not a good argument when your goal was to convince me of becoming a feminist puritan. Are you an anti sex and anti porn conservative?

by Anonymousreply 128July 7, 2022 2:59 PM

[quote] but she consented to it.

9/10 to earn desperately-needed money, pay off what would otherwise constitute crushing debt, and/or to escape a bad domestic situation.

by Anonymousreply 129July 7, 2022 3:08 PM

R129 let's assume what you say applies, it still doesn't change the fact that as a porn actress she could choose another scene or open an onlyfans. So as I said, she willingly did choking porn.

by Anonymousreply 130July 7, 2022 3:15 PM

R130 you literally are just looking for a moral justification to see females hurt for profit, for whatever sick reason (I donā€™t know you, and I donā€™t care or want to know your reasons for being into that). The least you could do is be transparent and admit it, instead of hiding behind cowardly ā€œbut but but A PAYCHECK IS CONSENTā€ libertarian-Incel cowardice. Grow some fucking balls and just say youā€™re a misogynist, bro.

Good luck with the hate and supremacy, hope the karma doesnā€™t catch up to you.

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by Anonymousreply 131July 7, 2022 3:19 PM

R131 I think you are just a jealous hoe who doesn't want to see porn actresses who are prettier than you who get all the male attention. Live with your ugliness.

by Anonymousreply 132July 7, 2022 3:23 PM

R132 the way I'm a goldstar tho!! So I don't want or need male attention!!!! or need to conform to male standards of beauty!!!! and the way men RESENT that freedom sfm!!!!!!

your tears and snits and cute little snarks just fuel me and my sistren honestly, keep crying you boring senescent chimp!!! your genitalia is gross and your sex are rapist creeps so!!!!!

by Anonymousreply 133July 7, 2022 3:29 PM

R133 Please watch lesbian porn and leave the men theirs. Thanks.

by Anonymousreply 134July 7, 2022 3:39 PM

"The reality is, if a woman wants to exist in this world she has to acclimate to some loss of power and agency."

As do men. And dogs, and chickens, and everyone else in the universe.

by Anonymousreply 135July 7, 2022 3:52 PM

[quote] Which is why women are trained from birth to compete with each other in humiliating ways, over men as well as over trivial consumerism and scraps of attention.

Trained? Where? By whom? Other women?

by Anonymousreply 136July 7, 2022 10:19 PM

So what the hell is up with right-wing women who claw their way up to a position of real power, like the Supreme Court or something, and use their position to insure that most other women stay barefoot and pregnant? If they're such great believers that women should stay home and feed the husband and raise the kiddies, why the hell aren't they home themselves?

I don't understand the mentality of these bitches, or for that matter, the mentality of right-wing plebs who don't call them out on their hypocrisy.

by Anonymousreply 137July 7, 2022 10:31 PM

Agree with you in that, R137. Those bitches are fucked UP.

by Anonymousreply 138July 8, 2022 11:13 AM

Thereā€™s numerous sellouts, Pick-Mes, Quslings, and Turncoats in every single social group on Earth. More at eleven.

by Anonymousreply 139July 8, 2022 12:36 PM

I think these conservative women who are in positions of power just want to put other women in their place. They are like Queen B's or something who oversee that women act accordingly like when men forced other men to do shotgun weddings. Some people are just ultra trad regardless of gender. Sad.

by Anonymousreply 140July 8, 2022 3:35 PM

According to this video, it is women who have the voting power and that would include women-hating-women.

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by Anonymousreply 141July 8, 2022 5:38 PM

I know many young women who prefer male friends. Not necessarily they hate other women but they dislike toxic femininity and all the unnecessary drama. A lot of these women have been bullied by other women too and just find men to be less complicated, more loyal and fun to be around. These women are also confident and outspoken, they love dirty lowbrow humor and love having casual sex . Something other women shame them about. I don't find anything wrong with that. It's like gays who don't want to be around fem drama queens.

by Anonymousreply 142July 8, 2022 5:45 PM

[quote] many young women who prefer male friends. Not necessarily they hate other women but they dislike toxic femininity and all the unnecessary drama. A lot of these women have been bullied by other women too and just find men to be less complicated, more loyal and fun to be around. These women are also confident and outspoken, they love dirty lowbrow humor and love having casual sex . Something other women shame them about.

R142 those women you describe will end up very lonely in middle-and-old age. Men only stick around, humour and tolerate women as companions when they find said women young and tight and fuckable enough. The first obvious and difficult-to-overlook wrinkle, sag, or grey, and most men will ditch those women for their bro-only circle like a bat out of hell.

Just ask my grandmother in her 80s, now being cared for and given social outlet by the daughter/granddaughters she sees as second-class and the women she said were ā€˜venomous bitchesā€™ all her life, preferring instead to spend all her time with men who except her husband left her alone by age 35.

Not saying that some women arenā€™t incorrigible bullies, or that some small percentage of women arenā€™t hopelessly toxic all their lives. Thatā€™s trueā€”I went to a girls school for years and got bullied, I know better than most. But that doesnā€™t mean that sisterhood isnā€™t vital, or that men have license to use divide-and-conquer tactics on all women. Women who arenā€™t toxic will typically care for other women regardless of age and status and social confidence level and sexual desirability/availability. Female homosocial empathy and loyalty simply isnā€™t as conditional and based on personal opportunism as heterosocial.

by Anonymousreply 143July 8, 2022 5:57 PM

Yes women do need sisterhood. And I wish more people would consider intergenerational friendships too. Elderly people are more mature and beyond childish pettiness. They make good friends and mentors to younger people.

by Anonymousreply 144July 8, 2022 6:00 PM

R242, do you think that your female pals think that straight men WON'T judge them for liking casual sex?

Straight men are very bad about that, we ven the nice ones. Most of them have never seen a reason to rethink the sexual mores they grew up with, and even more are deeply insecure about their ... prowess.

by Anonymousreply 145July 9, 2022 7:02 AM

Read and learn something

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by Anonymousreply 146July 9, 2022 12:13 PM

R146 this article is flawed

First of all it assumes that women who birth children are forced to take care of them. That is not true in the United States because women can make use of safe haven laws in every state and they can put the child up for adoption without notifying the biological father if he is unmarried because many statest don't grant unmarried men rights to their children.

The article also somewhat debunks itself. In the part where that one woman interviewed pro-life women and found out that they are anti-abortion because they value raising children more than a career. The article says it is because of capitalism because they have less money than pro-choice women. This is why feminists lose because feminists are so "pro-women" that they can't/refuse to criticize these pro-life women for what they are, which is low IQ. I don't even say that in order to make fun of them but pro-life = more primitive (like having 10 children = more primitive or a traditonal family at all = more primitve which has its advtanges but is old thinking of people with less intelligence). That's what it is and you should accept that it isjust a lot of women's true nature to oppose abortion and it's not the bogeyman called capitalism that makes them think so. See the youtube documentary linked below. It shows that, the more free a society becomes, the more people fall back to their traditonal gender roles because gender roles come from nature not nurture. As a lesbian you should know. For instance in R114 there is an example from a less free society that shows how the "wage gap" isn't as wide as it is here in the west.

And yeah that the article you linked still implies the wage gap is real and not just simply an earnings gap shows how misinformed and outdated the author is. Sorry HUN but I ain't got time for socialism or whatever else you gonna propose to me. I love capitalism. I know people personally who had to live through socialsm and all I can say is NO THANK YOU. And you know in the end, a survey in the UK of 5000 women said that 42% of them would lie about being on birth control in order to get pregnant against their partner's wishes. So it seems to me that plenty of women love becoming pregnant and torture society with their brats. So instead of blaming "patriarchal capitalism" can you like please criticize "leech female nature" that a lot of women possess naturally with or without money?

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by Anonymousreply 147July 10, 2022 1:24 PM

[quote] a survey in the UK of 5000 women said that 42% of them would lie about being on birth control in order to get pregnant against their partner's wishes.

Hmm well, can you tell us where and when exactly in the U.K. was this survey conducted? By whom? And with what sample size, and across which class bracket(s)?

It makes an enormous difference.

by Anonymousreply 148July 10, 2022 1:31 PM

R148 Are you chav and know about chav culture? Here is the link:

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by Anonymousreply 149July 10, 2022 1:38 PM

Your blather is a bunch of assumptions, stereotypes and bullshit.

Many people want children. Even people with money and status who have achieved much in careers want the status boost of children. But for some lower class women, they will never match up with the career or pay levels but can still get the children status boost.

This women aren't all "primitive". They aren't all having 10 children, nor are all of them dumb. The patriarchal culture is still there to fall back to since the modern society has not created equality and has liberally created precarity. Going it alone is not something a precarious person can do, and their jobs are very likely to be low status.

If having kids was so backwards and primitive then why do even successful DINKs and gay marrieds want to do it?

by Anonymousreply 150July 10, 2022 11:10 PM
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