Tasteful Friends - Greta Garbo's Former Apartment

wasn't that the showbiz building of its era - multo gays and Hermione Gingold? Or was that somewhere else?

I always liked this building with it's end of the world stance by the water. It seems comparatively reasonable for the amount of space. Looks like a great place to be alone if you so desired 😉

at under $8M it does seem reasonable indeed. Great space and views

^ They probably can't get the old lady smell out 🤢

it does have windows that open unlike your sub cellar R4😛😁☺️😍🤣😂😉😁😍

That is a nice apartment . Tastefully decorated but that price tag is way out of my league.

I like it, even if it isnt entirely to my taste (needs more colour and patterns), its not unreasonably priced and the monthly fee isnt crazy high for what you get. And its a decent size with nice views. Quite Eastern European looking decor, although not in a bad way, I could live with it. Of course I cant afford it though.....

@r5, Found the smelly old lady 😏

wow I had no idea she lived here...lots of embassies and consulates in this area as it's close to the UN.

Even if one had the money, isn’t it notoriously hard to get approved by that board? I could be wrong, but I think I remember reading that here.

According to Zillow it last sole on 12/28/2017 for $8,500,000. I thought it was more recent than 2017. I like this property for the views and huge living room. I wonder if the carpet or furniture was originally owned by Greta.

I like everything except that thing above the stove and the green marble bathroom. I'd paint the wood. The paneling isn't nice to me.

"Financing is not permitted."

Oh.

Now you tell me.

I'll have to tell my credit union to never mind.

I hate the windows both those big 1950s tripartite suburban ranch house picture windows, and the big squarish windows. Where originally they had muntins like a civilized building of the time would have done, they were all replaced with big slabs of glass at some point in a building-wide campaign. The resulting big plates of glass, like a Tiffany shop window are unfortunate. Yes it "opens up" the views, but it looks like an American embassy somewhere, top to bottom slabs of bulletproof glass. That's a difficult thing to overcome for me, particualrly as the result is at odds with the historicist paneling and decorative detailing of the architecture. It almost worked with Garbo's decorating: the lavender-pink and green scheme with bold abstract rugs in strong colors and the antiqued pine paneling, recalling a more modern, more domestic version of the shipping office of Jimmy Stewart's "old friend" in Vertigo (also with a waterfront view.)

I can see the connection to Stockholm that Garbo reportedly appreciated, it's visually not a world away from some apartments in Östermalm, for instance. And it has something of that clear, muted Northern light in all the photos.

Comparing the listing photos with those from 2017 when Garbo's heirs listed it, the improvements since have had the unintended effect of making the place look more old-fashioned: the kitchen and dining room, for instance.

Still, my hard grudge about the ugliness of the windows aside, it's a very good apartment and a good plan. I might be tempted to make the main bedroom into another living room, or to put a big folding screen between the library and living room (or making a simple colonnade to make a bit more visual separation. I prefer to have a large room and a small room, and especially for a library to not be closed off is odd - but I've lived with worse compromises. The bedrooms, especially the lesser two are not large but that suits me well, if maybe not the intended buyers.

The building in an NYT photo from 1941 when it had proper windows.

R8=Norman Bates

GREAT views. Kitchen and baths are good. Floors look good. Get rid of the salmon colored fabric wallcoverings and it's perfect.

Beautiful

Old lady elegant. I’d live there. MUCH better than the sterile glass high rise apts.

You won't regret a Garbo apartment.

It looks sharper and more modern, less old lady in the 2017 listing before "improvements" were made.

(Looks like the heirs have held onto the place all this time as some of the same rugs and things - compare the second bedroom with its wild and bright Garbo Swedish rug, but now dulled down with granny toile bedspreads. Or, less likely, maybe the sold it furnished to some admirer.)

Fifth floor. Tree-top view.

The ghost of Garbo haunts the place. Just as you’re falling asleep, you feel this cold wind on your face, there’s a tingling on your skin and you hear, “I vant to be alone!”

They’ll never unload the place without a qualified exorcist.

[quote]I hate the windows both those big 1950s tripartite suburban ranch house picture windows, and the big squarish windows. Where originally they had muntins like a civilized building of the time would have done, they were all replaced with big slabs of glass at some point in a building-wide campaign. The resulting big plates of glass, like a Tiffany shop window are unfortunate.

Agreed. Those huge plain picture windows are at odds with the rest of the place. We really need tough landmark laws.

Which one of you ancient caftan queens decorated this place?

From R21's link I like the kitchen before the improvement with the sink by the window, the breakfast nook and the wood cabinets.

She hated white spaces. Had to have color. I wish that sensibility would return.

I hate breakfast nooks.

No balcony or terrace.

@r16, "Norman Bates "

Hi, mom, you smelly old thing 🤮

[quote] Tastefully decorated

What?! The area rugs alone make me shudder,

At the time of her death in 1990, Rex Harrison and Douglas Fairbanks, Jr. were also living in that building.

No, not together.

Don’t care for the interior design but a great apt and layout- terrific light exposure too. Garbo had much better taste than this. Not a show biz building at all. One of the tightest coops on the East Side. Right across the street from River House, one of the city’s grand pre war residences that were built just before the Great Depression.

Obviously. Doug could do much better that Rex.

R4 R8 R30 has crotch rot on the brain and mommy issues 😂😛☺️😂😍☺️🤣😁😉🤣

^ Why are you stalking me?

Creep

On one of the previous threads, someone mentioned that a friend of Greta's said you could see her bedroom curtains from the train, because they were such a bright pink. I thought of that when I saw those muted mauve-pink shades in there now.

R36 do you normally keep interacting with those you feel are stalking you? Why keep feeding trolls?

R36 has a persecution complex

R36 if you can't stand the heat . . .

My favorite room is the elegant bathroom. Sleek but not cold.

Security! I told you this one was going to be a problem... r38

No you couldn’t- no train has a view of the building and all her drapery like all fine drapery was lined to the outside in a muted “color”.

[quote]She hated white spaces.

And wasn't too crazy about Black faces.

R42 didn't those parents you mentioned on one of the over 100 posts you contributed to various threads regarding Madison Cawthorn teach you about the ignore feature on DL? and PS it seems like they were unable to pull you back from the brink of stupidity

R42 were your parents Brandy and Johnny Walker?

^ Having fun? 😳

R47 did you ever think of giving your mother Sweet Fish for Mother's Day?

R47 did you ever notice that your father's dick tasted like shit?

😂😛☺️😂😍☺️🤣😁😉🤣

R50 rinse repeat, rinse repeat

😂😛☺️😂😍☺️🤣😁😉🤣

😂😛☺️😂😍☺️🤣😁😉🤣

😂😛☺️😂😍☺️🤣😁😉🤣

😂😛☺️😂😍☺️🤣😁😉🤣

R55 in the wit department do you take after your mother, father or one of the drunken sailors who visited your mom?

Reeks of old money and bad taste

R55 hopefully you will find a way to keep repetition fresh and meaningful. I bet you get invited to all the best INCEL parties

R57 looking at the floorplan and the kitchen and hallways the apartment looks modern has great views of the East River from 3 sides is on a quiet street with no thru traffic. Getting rid of the rugs and furniture would be easy and it's preferable to the cold, soulless steel and glass apartments that have sprung up in Manhattan over the last 20 years

The floorplan is decent. I like that the kitchen is on the "view" side of the apartment. I don't like little breakfast nooks, either, but I do like having a place to sit & write in the kitchen. I.e., a couch with a table in front of it.

hopefully you will find a way to keep repetition fresh and meaningful. I bet you get invited to all the best INCEL parties

rinse repeat, rinse repeat

were your parents Brandy and Johnny Walker?

😂😛☺️😂😍☺️🤣😁😉🤣

did you ever notice that your father's dick tasted like shit?

do you normally keep interacting with those you feel are stalking you? 😂😛☺️😂😍☺️🤣😁😉🤣

if it weren't for stalkers R66 you wouldn't have any friends

do you normally keep interacting with those you feel are stalking you? 😂😛☺️😂😍☺️🤣😁😉🤣

if it weren't for stalkers [R67] you wouldn't have any friends 😂😛☺️😂😍☺️🤣😁😉🤣

if it weren't for stalkers, you wouldn't have anything to say or anyone to talk to R69

Has anyone done a wellness check on you yet R69?

how many boxes of whine today R69?

'German Nazis are worse than Republican Nazis'

I guess you'd know since you sucked the cocks of both R69

Why are you retards in this thread? Isn't there a soap thread or Meghan Markle thread you should be arguing in?

Welcome to DL R74 Anything to add regarding Garbo's former apartment?

Has anyone done a wellness check on you yet [R71]?

'German Nazis are worse than Republican Nazis'

I guess you'd know since you sucked the cocks of both [R73]

Yes, R76 and I'm fine?

@r70, Why are you retards in this thread? Isn't there a soap thread or Meghan Markle thread you should be arguing in?

how many boxes of whine today r78

did you ever notice that your father's dick tasted like shit?

rinse repeat, rinse repeat 😂😛☺️😂😍☺️🤣😁😉🤣

R81=🦜🦜🦜🦜🦜🦜🦜🦜🦜🦜

do you normally keep interacting with those you feel are stalking you? 😂😛☺️😂😍☺️🤣😁😉🤣

has crotch rot on the brain and mommy issues 😂😛☺️😂😍☺️🤣😁😉🤣

are you in a wheelchair like Maddie R84 you seem stuck

were your parents Brandy and Johnny Walker? 😂😛☺️😂😍☺️🤣😁😉🤣

R85 what else do you do for fun?

did you ever notice that your father's dick tasted like shit?

Has anyone done a wellness check on you yet 😂😛☺️😂😍☺️🤣😁😉🤣

what else do you do for fun? 😂😛☺️😂😍☺️🤣😁😉🤣

rinse repeat, rinse repeat 😂😛☺️😂😍☺️🤣😁😉🤣

are you in a wheelchair like Maddie 😂😛☺️😂😍☺️🤣😁😉🤣

r91 is your mom making you and your dad's favorite tonight 'penis surprise'

you seem stuck

😍☺️😊😛😂🤣😉☺️

did you ever notice that your father's dick tasted like shit?

were your parents Brandy and Johnny Walker?

rinse repeat, rinse repeat 😂😛☺️😂😍☺️🤣😁😉🤣

has crotch rot on the brain and mommy issues 😂😛☺️😂😍☺️🤣😁😉🤣

Found the smelly old lady 😏

This thread's "Tasteful Friends" status is hereby revoked.

is your mom making you and your dad's favorite tonight 'penis surprise' 😂😛☺️😂😍☺️🤣😁😉🤣

Back to the thread topic, I love the apartment. The realtors who invade the video and kill the aesthetics, not so much.

R69 Take a shower Really, I always feel better when I'm all scrubbed up.👌👌👌👌👌👌👌

Do something completely different to different to distract yourself. Run errands go for a walk👌👌👌👌👌

Has anyone done a wellness check on you yet 😂😛☺️😂😍☺️🤣😁😉🤣

r105, has crotch rot on the brain and mommy issues 😂😛☺️😂😍☺️🤣😁😉🤣

r105, did you ever notice that your father's dick tasted like shit? 😂😛☺️😂😍☺️🤣😁😉🤣

r105, is your mom making you and your dad's favorite tonight 'penis surprise'

r105, Found the smelly old lady 😏

The ceilings are only 9 feet. In a building like that, the ceilings should be a minimum of 10 feet or 10.5 feet.

R106 R107 R109 R103 R97 . . . .have fun talking to yourself🖐️✋

^ rinse repeat, rinse repeat 😂😛☺️😂😍☺️🤣😁😉🤣

r112, what else do you do for fun?

rinse repeat, rinse repeat 😂😛☺️😂😍☺️🤣😁😉🤣

R113 R61 R62 R63 . . .have fun talking to yourself🖐️🖐️oh and R114 R115 so many posts blocked with 1 click

UR a busy beaver like your mom!

UR a busy beaver like your mom! is your mom making you and your dad's favorite tonight 'penis surprise' did you ever notice that your father's dick tasted like shit?

rinse repeat, rinse repeat 😂😛☺️😂😍☺️🤣😁😉🤣

[quote] [R42] didn't those parents you mentioned on one of the over 100 posts you contributed to various threads regarding Madison Cawthorn teach you about the ignore feature on DL? and PS it seems like they were unable to pull you back from the brink of stupidity

What the fuck does any of that have to do with you clearly being a psycho idiot? And no, I am not the one you were stalking but it's obvious from outer space that you are a waste of natural resources.

^ Doesn't matter, psycho bitch will think you're me 🙄

with 1 click I lost 60+ posts more than half of the responses on this thread are from one tired old troll!

@r119, See, told you... ^

r121, UR a busy beaver like your mom! is your mom making you and your dad's favorite tonight 'penis surprise' did you ever notice that your father's dick tasted like shit?

rinse repeat, rinse repeat 😂😛☺️😂😍☺️🤣😁😉🤣

while UR ranting R119 what about the troll who has posted more than half the replies here? block R120 and discover for yourself or otherwise carry on and respond to the topic. No one is preventing you from doing that

[quote]According to Zillow it last sole on 12/28/2017 for $8,500,000. I thought it was more recent than 2017.

I agree, in fact a similar listing was posted here, fairly recently.

I say that because this is one of the two places I walk to at lunchtime to sit by the East River. Well, not literally Garbo’s apartment, but right outside it, walking across the overpass that goes over the dog run and then over the FDR drive at 51st St that allows one access to the little esplanade on the East River. I told an anecdote about it when the apartment was last listed. It feels like it was last summer?

UR a busy beaver like your mom! is your mom making you and your dad's favorite tonight 'penis surprise' did you ever notice that your father's dick tasted like shit?

rinse repeat, rinse repeat 😂😛☺️😂😍☺️🤣😁😉🤣

I guess I’m in the minority, but I don’t like the layout. Why is the library so completely open to the living room? You should be able to shut off a library for quiet study. I could understand it if it was a compromise to make the living room seem larger, but the living room is already ginormous.

And the dining room is really small. I’m guessing the kitchen used to be the dining room and I can understand wanting to enjoy the view from the kitchen, but in a seven million dollar apartment, I’d want to be able to host a family holiday with a sit down dinner.

The “modern” windows don’t bother me. Glazing technology has improved and I think it’s OK to update an older building with something that is clearly superior. Also, even some of the nicest prewar buildings in NYC have dozens of mismatched air conditioners hanging out off them, so this doesn’t seem like a problem to me. I can understand the opposing view, though.

R127 she wanted to be alone and I believe she lived alone so she didn't need shut if off from the rest of the apartment

[quote]but in a seven million dollar apartment, I’d want to be able to host a family holiday with a sit down dinner.

Good for you but many people wouldn't.

I want to be alone.

Eat your fucking "family dinner" someplace else.

the library is larger than the dining room and in the ginormous living room you could get set up large table for the holidays with a tree, the fireplace and those great views R127

I'd put the formal dining room in that library area and leave the one on the floorplan what it really is, a breakfast room. There's plenty of room to do this, plus the office can then be a private windowed library. I really love it. It is a quiet gorgeous block too. Tommy Tune lives a few doors down.

Katharine Hepburn's townhouse was on E. 49th St. and 2nd. Ave, practically around the corner from Greta's place. I wonder if those two old dykes ever bumped into each other on the street.

Property was sold to John and Marjorie McGraw back in 2017. They kept or otherwise acquired rugs and other furnishings that came with apartment from Garbo estate.

J'adore that green velvet sofa.

Those pink pillows are hideous. It is staged poorly. They do not not know how to Old French Chic, Art Deco or Modern. I do not like they curved cabinets in the kitchen. I think they would bug me. I like the style and materials, but not their personally choices and not a fan of the kitchen layout. It is a do over.

R15

River House, The Campanile and other properties in Sutton and Beekman Place all suffered changes when city took land to build FDR Drive. That highway is largely built by the way with rubbish from bombed out WWII London. It was loaded onto ships as ballast then came across ocean to be used for that and other purposes.

Link below from my favourite Manhattan buildings blog gives bit of history of the property.

If you've seen film "My Man Godfrey", though fiction you would know (they got that part correct) area along East River from lower Manhattan well up to what is now Sutton Place (and beyond) was largely tenements, breweries, slums, homeless camps (or "Forgotten Men" as they are called in MMG) well into 1930's and really up to after WWII. This was one reason why NYC government had no problems taking land to create FDR Drive among other things.

By late 1920's and through 1930's however buildings like River House and The Beekman Campanile began to spring up. These locations took advantage of East River views, but also some other bits. For instance both properties originally had lot lines that extended to East River, this they used to create yacht clubs where well heeled residents could moor their crafts. Besides sailing many tony residents of area would use that East River access to reach their country properties out on Long Island's "Gold Cost", the Hamptons and other areas with waterside access.

Here is NYT piece that features above linked image in R15

I like Scarlett Johansson's Sutton Place penthouse apartment more. It suits me. That Garbo stravaganza? Not for me, thanks. I'd find the kitchen hard to work in, to say the least.

It's a very elegant and well-laid out apartment with great views. It's always of the best Tasteful Friends threads, this apartment. And what pedigree! Garbo slept there! And so did a lot of others. Talk about laid out.

If you want to get an idea of what Turtle Bay area looked like during 1950's and while United Nations was being built, catch 1953 film noir "The Glass Wall" starring gorgeous Vittorio Gassman. Filming locations included First Avenue at 46th street and area around that part of Turtle Bay.

Turtle Bay is beautiful. So much more elegant than that trashy Sutton Place.

At time Ms. Garbo was only resident of 450 East 52nd given permission by board to install central air conditioning. Though cleverly disguised you can see some of vents in listing photos...

What everyone else does I don't know, and or if board relented and since has allowed others to install same.

Another apartment in building just went into contract.

R142, I assure you that central AC has been allowed in that building for quite some decades.

One did say Garbo was first, and considering it's now 2022 yes, one would think by now central AC is common.

Penthouse unit apparently has it's own separate HVAC system independent of building's systems.

Only a fool would touch that Fortuni silk. You can't get it any longer for love nor money, so once it's ripped out that would be that.

Why are there no maid's quarters? Don't tell me Garbo washed her own floors and scrubbed her own toilet.

No, Katie did that for her.

In the early days, if the board at the River House across 52nd wouldn't let you have an apartment, the Campanile would.

Sure the views from both buildings are nice, but the noise from the FDR must be unbearable most of the time.

Apartment originally had a maid's quarters.

What happened after new owners moved in who knows.

"The apartment had an incredible view over the East River, but as a life-long Fortuny fabric aficionado and as an art lover, what caught my eye was that the place was awash with fine old Fortuny and an incredible art collection covering all walls. It was “pre-war” of the old school: the kitchen and maid’s room hadn’t been refreshed in decades, and the public areas were only marginally better off."

Trend for decades now has been for servants to live out, thus needs for separate rooms for servants has become less. Many households turn or have turned such rooms over to other uses.

In pre-war buildings with proper service entrances servant's quarters were often off that corridor. This has made such rooms a huge it with older teenagers or adults living at home. They can go and come as they please without using apartment's main entrance/exit.

In smaller apartments with only say one or two bedrooms, many simply prefer to turn servant's bedroom into another bedroom, if not a home office or some other use.

R133

We had a long tread on DL some time ago about Katherine Hepburn and Greta Garbo. Short answer to your query was yes, the two ladies did visit each other, apparently also played tennis, jogged and otherwise got on.

"Katherine Hepburn"

Oh, dear, R151.

R148

As noted in other threads about NYC pre-war buildings, you don't hear much outdoor noise inside. Those buildings are noted for near mausoleum interior silence. Much of this is due to thick heavy masonry walls (two to three bricks in depth), with heavy plaster for inside.

Manhattan like any other major city then and now is a noisy place, thus developers spared no effort at least with pre-war construction of both multi-family and private homes to insulate occupants from same.

[quote] It was “pre-war” of the old school: the kitchen and maid’s room hadn’t been refreshed in decades, and the public areas were only marginally better off."

This is unacceptable for modern people.

Well, except for our Eldergays who like to imagine they're mid-century WASPs.

"at under $8M it does seem reasonable indeed"

Unless things have changed The Beekman Campanile is an all cash building, no financing allowed.

Thus yes price is perfectly reasonable if you have sixteen or thereabout millions lying spare (board likes to see a healthy reserve so there's no question about meeting monthly maintenance and other expenses).

All or mostly cash co-op units have been hit for decades now by new construction luxury condos going up all over Manhattan. This and those with means preferring to simply purchase a rowhouse or other single family property. You can finance those sort of purchases in whole or part depending upon one's situation.

When you hear of people buying new condos say on UES at Third Avenue and 83rd for tens of millions, it does not translate they paid anywhere near even half in cash.

For record when 2008 financial/credit crash hit, old school pre-war co-ops in NYC largely came through unscathed. Strenuous vetting process along with insistence of residents having skin in game (nil to zero financing). meant they didn't have to worry about people not paying. OTOH many condos, especially new buildings were in deep merde. What do think happened when large part or majority of a building's units were purchased on credit and people couldn't (or wouldn't) pay their mortgages and or common charges?

R154

In common with many actors or film stars from golden age of Hollywood that came from comparatively poor backgrounds, Garbo didn't throw her money around. She spent where deemed necessary, but otherwise also did not when she didn't believe something was worth bothering.

Even those who come from money are somewhat same in that vein. Up and down UES (including stately buildings on Fifth, Park and Madison avenues) you have people living in pre-war buildings that haven't done much if anything since they moved in decades ago now. When such units finally hit market (usually after shareholder dies), it's certainly gut renovation time. We're talking apartments frozen in time from 1950's through maybe 1980's.

Garbo never married nor had children. It was just her rambling about in that apartment with the occasional guests.

True r156. I'm very familiar with the types of people you talk about. Stepping into their houses/apartments is like taking a time machine. Sometimes it can be a bit eerie.

I've never read or heard anything about Hepburn and Garbo even meeting each other, never mind being friends. After Garbo left Hollywood, she apparently didn't associate with anybody in the film industry.

Could never want live in 24/7 help. One values one's privacy too much.

A daily is fine for most purposes, this or even someone who comes few times per week depending upon household's needs.

Several friends on UES have families in either pre-war buildings or townhouses/mansions. Staff largely live out (cook, maids, etc...) with exceptions being nannies, infant nurses, and or a private duty nurse or home help aid required due to an older or other person's health needs.

As Robert Gottlieb notes in his recent biography of Garbo, she knew Katharine Hepburn well, although they never worked together. Hepburn recalled George Cukor bringing Garbo to see her new house in Los Angeles, and Eve Le Gallienne remembered sitting behind Hepburn and Garbo in 1945 at "The Glass Menagerie" on Broadway. One of Garbo's driver's said he took her to see Hepburn in February 1990, a couple of months before Garbo died. Hepburn told Dick Cavett that Garbo was "charming and sweet, and nice and funny."

After she left Hollywood, Garbo became friends with the actresses Lilli Palmer and Deborah Kerr, as well as Kerr's husband the screenwriter Peter Viertel, who was the son of Salka Viertel, also a screenwriter and one of Garbo's closest friends.

After she died they found dozens of these under the sofa. Greta would have luved the DL.

R159

R146 why would she need live in help? It's a 3-bedroom apartment and the building has a doorman and a service elevator to let the 'help' in.

PS Garbo liked her privacy

She lived alone. She didn't need a live-in housekeeper or chef.

She had a loyal cook and housekeeper for 31 years in New York, Claire Kroger.

But Kroger never lived with her

R133, they’ll were friends- and very protective of each others privacy.

R148, when you’re in an apartment in River House and the window is closed you hear almost nothing- I lived there.

[quote]One of Garbo's driver's said

*drivers*

Charlie at r43, you can see the train lines in the photos of the window views in the listing. Obviously, you can see the building from the train.

The curtains were apparently in the kitchen, not bedroom.

[quote]She spent five decades proving how much she meant it. From her seven-room apartment at 450 East 52nd Street, Garbo designed the template for what her life would be until her death in 1990. Decorated in various shades of pink, purple, and dusty rose—her kitchen curtains were such a violent pink that one confidante claimed you could spot them from 15 blocks away on the FDR—the apartment became her refuge.

I should add to r170 that my memory was wrong about the curtains with regard to the train, as well; they were supposedly visible from the FDR.

[quote]R165 She had a loyal cook and housekeeper for 31 years in New York, Claire Kroger.

Was dykery involved?

Unless you have double glazing windows this apartment gets a lot of noise from the 6 lane freeway below. It's not that high up from the looks of it. Probably bad air quality too from all the exhaust fumes 24-7.

Life long New Yorker here, and I want to know just what "train" you people claim to see Greta Garbo's apartment from? Nearest subway is Lexington Avenue and it runs underground.

Julian's Auctions strikes again....

[quote]Even those who come from money are somewhat same in that vein. Up and down UES (including stately buildings on Fifth, Park and Madison avenues) you have people living in pre-war buildings that haven't done much if anything since they moved in decades ago now... We're talking apartments frozen in time from 1950's through maybe 1980's.

Very true, R156, though I will venture it's not a peculiarity of the rich. Many people reading this thread (not all of them ghastly rch) have or had an elderly relative whose home was a clock that stopped ticking in 1985, or 1964, but for a few instrusions of pill bottles and food stuffs and newfangled flatscreen TVs, they are stopped clocks from years gone by. Even some young people do it: these furnish a new home and --where did the time go?-- 23 years later their friends are making fun of their vintage shit.

Having to get co-op board approval for every alteration of any consequence would give.one pause to ripping out the kitchen and baths every few years for the latest trend in backsplash material or shower niches.

R174, don't be such a fucking asshole. Read the thread. There is no group of people on here who say they can see her apartment from the train.

In an article in Town & Country, someone said they could see her apartment from the FDR. It was already explained once. My first reply about it was just me trying to be conversational, the second reply was me linking to the article and correcting what I'd said, but because you and Charlie and thoroughly unpleasant people, it's now turned into some bitchy THING on here where you both are more concerned with making yourselves look good than anything else.

This forum has fallen so far in such a short time. The original thread about this (which R175 stole their link from) isn't even a year old. It was a great thread. We don't have threads like that anymore.

Old 1916 map of NYC showing area from East 47th to East 53rd from Third avenue to East River.

This was about then years before the Beekman Campanile was built, and you can see it wasn't a great area.

At 53rd and East River there was ferry service to Blackwell's Hospital. Block between First and water had factories such as "American Dis Artificial Water and Ice", a cigar factory. Rest of area contained more ice houses (big in days before refrigeration became normal, someone had to supply ice for all those "ice boxes".

you'd think the river side would have acoustics muffling the traffic.

and i love it.

At other end of market, we have George F. Pelham's 1930 Gramercy Square Apartments, which went up about four years after The Beekman Campanile.

Located on Irving Place while a gorgeous building the apartments were what was called then "housekeeping" style. That is they were all self contained with separate kitchens but no dedicated servants rooms in floorplan. Apartments seem to be mostly one bedroom and studio units, and while a tenant could have someone come in to clean, they obviously weren't going to be live in.

Gypsy Rose Lee and Thorton Wilder were some of the early tenants.

So you see pre-war wasn't about always luxury white glove rentals or co-op buildings.

Damn noise from fucking ships on East River were why no one could hear me scream from my Sutton Place apartment.

My main issue with the apartment is the location.

That area is incredibly inconvenient for anything but looking at the East River or attending Special Sessions of the UN General Assembly.

I had a friend in high school who lived in River House and we used to joke that they lived in Queens, it was about as difficult to get there from the UES or UWS.

The neighborhood, such that it is, quickly turns into a commercial area and there just isn't much there in terms of shopping or services, it's far from any park, and from the subway.

delivery?

"Rich people live shabbily and never change a thing... How admirable is that, and how necessary to repeat to one another!" is a time-tested DL trope. It's been getting repeated even more frequently in recent times.

The FDR is not an IRT.

[quote] Well, except for our Eldergays who like to imagine they're mid-century WASPs.

Bingo R154

And people--regardless of social class--don't like to update their houses and apartments because it's a major hassle.

It's less about cost and more about having contractors in the house for months not being able to use the kitchen or bathroom for weeks on end. That's not something many people look forward to, regardless of what the end product will look like.

People also get used to things quickly, it's just human nature.

Maybe the oven heats unevenly, but unless you are a hardcore baker or cook, you get used to putting things on the left side and it cooks just fine versus getting a new oven--that's the hassle factor vs the money factor.

My friend, with money and ready to finish, updated her house. It took 4 years.

Try getting a contractor commitment. You lose them during tile selection, for example.

Now, she's probably 3 more years with the landscaping.

Know area quite well and have many friends who live in Sutton or Beekman Place, and all things you describe as minuses other see as positive.

Far from subway keeps certain element away. If your apartment faces East River there are wonderful views, and like everywhere else on far east or west sides of Manhattan you get gentle breezes which makes things cooler in summer.

Yes, area can be noisy during day, especially along First and Second Avenues, and of course certain cross streets (largely thanks to traffic going to and from the bridge or tunnels in area), but things quiet down at night. Overnight it's rather dead actually.

As for services, shopping and whatever else you're moaning about lack of, are you kidding me? There are and have always been dozens of shops, stores, laundries, dry cleaners and others that cater to local residents from "carriage trade" on down. Trader Joe's just opened Bridge Market as well.

Also as mentioned numerous times on DL in threads about area, Third to First at least from 47th to 59th was once heavily gay. Everything from bars and restaurants to the infamous (or famous) stroll at 53rd and Third. Plenty of gays then and still now live in area, Freddie Mercury was but one.

Sadly new construction and high rents have caused many of the small shops on Second and First to close.

R104 I know, right? I want to see the apartment, not your tired old faces. And some of the still photos of the realtors were just weird "glamour" shots.

It's not always about "updating" a house or an apartment, but doing the work that all homes of any sort require as part of routine. Furnishings, fitting and so forth become worn and wore out, walls need to be repainted, plaster or plaster board needs fixing where there are cracks or other damage.

Many times on DL people comment about how they don't like furniture or whatever of a "Tasteful Friends" post, and rest of us will say no one cares about that; serious buyers are looking at bones of a place. Is the place going to need a total gut renovation, or can it be worked with as is with just a bit of things done.

Apartment in link is but case in point...

[quote] As for services, shopping and whatever else you're moaning about lack of, [bold]are you kidding me? [/bold] There are and have always been dozens of shops, stores, laundries, dry cleaners and others that cater to local residents

[quote] Sadly new construction and high rents have caused many of the small shops on Second and First to close.

Perhaps you are kidding yourself?

Great apartment at your link, R191, I see why everyone wants it, it at least wants to see it. It looks like set for a.late-1950s/early-1960s film about a young, pluckish bohemian artist living on bread crusts and idealism in place that horrified the owner's parents (but the audience, without exception, coveted - even then.

Of course it will be fucked six ways from Sunday, "gut renovated" so that every bit of it's appeal now is gone, codified, made practical, ironed smooth, peeled back to it's "studs" and reclad with whatever finishes of the moment are being pushed by the Property Brothers this very week. Is veined marble out, and bright, bright inclusión free white quartz in? - as blinding white as those candy apple chompers of that other "star" Christina Anstead? Then that's what it will have.

"Gut reno" is the scariest pairing of words for anyone who like historic architecture, but if two queens buy a house that's perfect, absolutely everything except the entry hall wallpaper, you can be sure they will "rip it back to the studs" and change everything, not for the better but to look like the dressing room in Aerin Lauder's apartment in someone's Pinterest inspiration board.

One nice thing about co-ops is that often (if not often enough) they force owners to consider what they like about an apartment rather than make a long, long ego stroking list of all the walls and plumbing stacks they want to relocate.

[quote]Many people reading this thread (not all of them ghastly rch) have or had an elderly relative whose home was a clock that stopped ticking in 1985, or 1964

I had a great aunt and great uncle whose house was like walking into the 1930s - in the 1990s. They had a tv and a few other modern things, but the decor never changed from when they first moved in. It was bizarre.

"so that every bit of it's appeal now is gone, codified, made practical, ironed smooth, peeled back to it's "studs"

Oh, dear two times, R193.

"it's" = "it is"

Thanks, R199. I'll pass along your "oh, dears," dear, to Google spell check, which ought to have AI enough to get it's/its right 99.99% of the time but doesn't bother, as I don't to correct its fuck ups. But why go for the most obvious, mechanical errors?

Actually, dear, YOU ought to know it without Google, and it has nothing to do with spell check.

r196 went to brunch.

Correction: auto-correct, asshole.

yeah, sophisticate.

You shouldn't need that, either, R199. Dumb asshole.

They fucked up the dining room, kitchen and likely the bath too.

Price chop!

I read that Garbo may have picked the location because it reminded her of her native Stockholm.

Can you imagine the number of snatches eaten out in that apartment over the span of Miss G’s residency??

I don’t even know if I could count that high.

It looks nothing like it was when Greta was living there, everything has been demolished, reshaped and changed. even the windows are different. at this point, it's not, Garbo's former apt anymore. Besides, Joan Fontaine's place was much better

She was pining for the fjords

[quote] it reminded her of her native Stockholm.

not a good selling point. (turn off the heaters, you'll feel just like home)

" Besides, Joan Fontaine's place was much better"

Last one checked Joan Fontaine's former apartment hadn't sold either.

These white glove co-op buildings all over Manhattan are just not exactly everyone's cup of tea. There has been a fuck ton of new luxury condo construction all over Manhattan and Brooklyn, and those units are selling well. Indeed several new buildings on UES totally or nearly sold out .

Being condos buyers may have put various amounts of skin in game versus financing. Few white glove co-ops allow more than 50% financing if it's done at all.

[quote]Can you imagine the number of snatches eaten out in that apartment over the span of Miss G’s residency??

She was never into sex all that much. She had very few lovers, and was celibate for many years in her later life.

The views from Miss Garbo's windows are far superior to those of Miss Fontaine's place. I love Garbo's place and would buy it in hopes it's haunted by her ghost.

Are we to presume that that's still Joan Fontaine's decor and furniture in her apartment? It's not bad taste for an old lady.

How the hell did she maintain it all those years (the maintenance fees alone!)? Where did her money come from in the last 50 years? Last I remember, she didn't do much more than sub for Kitty Carlisle occasionally on To Tell the Truth in the late 1960s. And she also supposedly had a beautiful home in Carmel, California adjacent to Doris Day's estate. Perhaps she sublet the apartment at a huge profit?

Also, coincidentally, as per TCM, today is Joan Fontaine's birthday. Happy Birthday Joan!

Very low ceilings. It's likely that some ceiling height was sacrificed for air conditioning ducts.

You'd have to keep the windows shut 24/7 all year because of the traffic noise from the FDR below.

[quote]r212 coincidentally, as per TCM, today is Joan Fontaine's birthday. Happy Birthday Joan!

The teenaged soap actress Kelli Maroney said she was shocked that when Fontaine guested on Ryan’s Hope no one seemed to know who she was. She was like, “We have a movie star here, and she’s in a little tiny closet, and no one’s doing anything about it!”

[bold] 00:21:13 mark

Nope, Joan Fontaine's former apartment still hasn't sold either.

Years ago when options were fewer such large family sized apartments in pre-war co-ops would have sold comparatively quickly. Today and for past decade or so really ground has shifted.

People are either buying new in new construction condos (Manhattan or Brooklyn). If they need lots of square footage are buying townhouses or other private homes in Brooklyn or Manhattan. Neither instance requires going through the intrusive and often dreaded co-op board approval process.

Once considered socially beneath living on UWS, Brooklyn in past decade or so has seemingly dropped that stigma. All sorts are flocking out there (at least west Brooklyn) for all those lovely row houses and new construction condos.

For a while I lived in Brooklyn Heights. The wonderful thing about it was you could feel like when you went home, you left the stress of the city OVER THERE, across the river in Manhattan.

Re: r214

[quote] Nope, Joan Fontaine's former apartment still hasn't sold either.

I'm not surprised. I mean, who would want to live in that cow's former home.

I was an apprentice, assigned to pull the curtain at one of those New England Straw Hat Circuit summer theaters in 1970 and Joan Fontaine came through with a play called Relatively Speaking. We had been told she could be imperious but she was actually very warm and would wink at me as she stood behind the curtain each night before I pulled it up. Loved her!

It's true that the pre-war co-ops are not as desirable as they used to be. Lots of people these days want modern buildings with all the modern amenities. An on-site gym, for example, is a must. Esp. at those prices.

Joan was very clever with money and only spent the $$$ she made as an actress, she never touched the bulk of her assets (family money, they are De havilands, you know, alimonies, etc). When she wanted to buy something, she'd do a movie or a play.

Like man other actors from golden age of Hollywood Joan Fontaine did quite a bit of television.

Joan Fontaine must have been loaded. She divided her time between East 72nd street apartment in Manhattan, NY and her place on Eaton Square in London.

"Actress Joan Fontaine divided her time between her fifth floor apartment and her Eaton Square residence in London. In the spring of 1966 she was in Britain, so she offered the apartment at No. 160 to Vivien Leigh and Jack Merivale who were appearing in the Broadway production of Anton Chekhov's Ivanov, directed by John Gielgud. (Leigh and Merivale had been involved in an undisguised romantic relationship since 1958, even before her 1960 divorce from Lawrence Olivier.) The two remained in the apartment throughout rehearsals and then for the five and a half weeks the play ran.

Artist Don Bachardy described visiting Fontaine's apartment in 1976 in his 2000 book Stars in My Eyes. He eyed a red-varnished wooden armchair as a possible seat for the actress to pose.

I learned from her later that the tiger's head of the seat had been designed by Salvador Dali especially for her, and that she herself had executed the needlepoint work. I asked if it would be a comfortable chair for her. 'Yes, perfectly.' Her tone implied: Why else would it be in my sitting room?"

[quote] Joan Fontaine must have been loaded. She divided her time between East 72nd street apartment in Manhattan, NY and her place on Eaton Square in London.

She was loaded indeed (the De Haviland family basically invented planes) but her other residence was in Carmel, and had the exact same floor plan and library as her NYC flat. Joan never had an apt in eaton square, it was Vivien 's. She and Vivien swapped places when Joan was filming in London and Vivien appearing on Broadway. It didn't go well at all. Vivien refused Joan the access to her garage, and in retaliation, Joan sent Mrs Mac, vivien's cook, and her cat Poo Jones to the country (Tickerage Mills, Vivien's country house). When Vivien learnt about that, she threw a precious antique clock out the window of joan's apt, and when she went back to London, she left her luggage at joan's for months, and then she claimed that her collection of watches had been stolen, and sent the cops to Joan. Literaly. One morning the bell rang and Joan faced thecops for the theft of Lady Olivier's jewellry. ( incidently, the watches turned up at sothebys with the rest of the Vivien Leigh collection a few years ago.)

I really don’t care that Greta Garbo lived here. It makes for interesting commentary. But the real estate itself is magnificent. Those views are unbelievable. And it still has a very nice kitchen. If I won the lottery, I would buy it.

Vivien Leigh was batshit crazy.

R226 = ghost of Joan Fontaine

From Joan' book, No Bed of Roses :

I arrived at Vivien Leigh's flat in Eaton Square, having lent her my New York apartment while she was playing in Ivanov with John Gielgud on Broadway. Vivien was a cat fancier. I have an acute olfactory sense. She evidently did not. The flat reeked of feline proximity. So did the housekeeper. The hall coat closet contained a box of Kitty Litter that had not been changed in weeks. When the housekeeper, with whom the cat slept, brought my 5:30 a.m. breakfast tray each morning, I could scarcely force down the food. Her white uniform sent waves of odor toward my bed. I gagged my way to the Elstree studio in a hired Daimler.

Since I had left Vivien with my excellent Jamaican housekeeper in New York, had left out all my linens and silver for her use, I saw no reason why I should leave the Alfa Romeo on the street in Eaton Square when her garage was unoccupied. I rang the New York apartment and explained my problem to Vivien, asking for housing of the convertible. "You are not to use my gar-rahge," she regally commanded, and hung up tlie phone. My phone! This was not the last encounter I was to have with Lady Olivier.

I had long since vacated Vivien's London flat. Her New York show had now closed, but she had stayed on in my apartment. "What am I to do, throw my luggage into the street?" the disgruntled Lady Olivier coldly queried the doctor. As she was leaving next day for Jamaica anyway, he arranged for her luggage to be stored in the apartment until she could pick it up en route to England. Weeks later a mutual friend put Vivien on the phone, cautioning me that she was not well, had regretted her unfriendliness, and wanted to apologize. Over the phone, she dripped icicles just the same.

The last contact I had with her ladyship was through the F.B.L It seems she had an 6tagere filled with valuable watches that Laurence Olivier had given her. When I arrived at Eaton Square, I had had the housekeeper put away anything of value. I never saw the watches, but now they were missing. Mother, stopping at my New York apartment on her way to California, was interrogated. My maid, too. No one had seen the watches The F.B.I, gentlemen smiled and shook their heads. They may have been through this before with the actress.

Despite the fact that I never received a report from the F.B.L, or from Vivien, as to whether they were found or not, a New York columnist printed that I had stolen the valuable timepieces.

"I had left Vivien with my excellent Jamaican housekeeper.."

Ohh! Hoity-toity!

Why couldn't Ms. Fontaine just say "coloured" like rest of us?

Joan made tons of money as an actress until very late in her career, she was big hits like ISLAND IN THE SUN, and other gems, such as the immortal VOYAGE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA ,a must watch if you haven't already. Olivia was not so smart with her money, and had to borrow from her duriing rough patches. Joan obliged, and Olivia never forgave her.

[quote] Last one checked Joan Fontaine's former apartment hadn't sold either.

Love that. The "tasteful friends" DL brigade on watch 24/7

Was Greta Garbo wealthy after quitting the movie business?

Yes. She had excellent investment advice throughout her life, and lived frugally while in Hollywood.

Give her a potato and she was happy.

^ more like, punch-tongue her pussy, and she was happy

Garbo never had leeching husbands, parasitic relatives or spoiled ungrateful children to support. Same with Katharine Hepburn. They were wealthy women their whole lives as a result. Unlike many of their contemporaries.

oh really ? how interesting

exquisite

A place I can be left alone in…. Don’t tease me!

[quote] Garbo never had leeching husbands, parasitic relatives or spoiled ungrateful children to support. Same with Katharine Hepburn.

raging dykes be rich

Katharine Hepburn lived practically around the corner from Garbo. I wonder if they ever got together for some muff diving sessions.

The recent owners fucked it up. This has to lower the price.

Largest source of wealth to Garbo's estate by all accounts was art work.

Like few other actors from "Golden Era" of Hollywood Garbo did invest or buy California real estate. Those holdings or properties were sold long before her death however.

At time of her death Garbo's checking account held < $700k. There may have been various trusts and other vehicles which would not have been included when estate went into probate.

The stars who bought up Southern California real estate in the 30s and 40s made out like bandits. Bob Hope, for example, purchased a ton of land in Orange County when it was undeveloped and dirt cheap. When OC started to get built up after WWII he made a fortune.

Are there any New York based eldergays here who ever saw her out on one of her notorious walks?