WHET opera?

Calleja's dentist drill vibrato isn't helping.

Start selling yourselves to Gen Z conservatives as classical heritage. Then you'll get an audience.

The Broadway musical supplanted opera decades ago. It's just had a slow death.

FWIW, daytime soap operas are still airing and their future has been bleak for the last two decades.

It is hard to perform arias when it has been performed by hundreds of old school master who you would not be able to top in your lifetimes.

Hard for you to sing music that has been sung by Pavarotti, Callas and Corelli. Unless opera have some new innovative ideas, it will die slowly. And according to many old school singers, the people who manage opera these days couldn't even sing opera.

It demands concentration and the ability to sit still for up the 3 hours (5 if it's Wagner). That's a tough sell to today's ADHD kids and Twitter-twat adults.

I think it will continue to exist in a scaled-down, niche way, but the days of repertory companies doing full seasons of 10 - 15 shows are probably over. Too expensive to produce, and too little audience interest.

I think hipsters might adopt it eventually, especially if it becomes even more unpopular.

It depends on where it is--not in Germany, where generous state funding and hot directors sustain the art form in more than 30 houses (3 in Berlin alone).

In the US, small-scale regional opera (like St. Louis and Des Moines) is doing well, even if the Met isn't.

Gone the way of cursive writing and analog clocks.

Or the way of the Vinyl.

‘Died’ for a while, then made a small-scale Comeback for the Cognoscentis

Opera will never die. Though I may be the only person under 40 who is a fan…

The Fat Lady sang.

The cost of seeing an opera is prohibitive for most people.

Opera has made very little outreach to younger generations. The ticket prices are too high. Opera house pride themselves for being elite.

And now it's coming to roost.

The 4000 seat MET rarely sells out any more. There aren't any stars today the general population knows. Even for opera fans, there are few interesting, must-see singers any more.

When the has great Verdi soprano stopped performing at the MET over 30 years ago (Price), you know you're in trouble as an artform.

r13.. have you attended a pop music concert? Opera is cheap by the prices of current concerts

Opera needs to be grand.(Teehee.) Impressive sets and costumes. If first timers go to see Aida, let's say, and it's some minimalist set with people in cow suits smearing cow dung on themselves or some crap, most aren't going to return.

BTW, ticket prices are NOT too high compared to other things. There are tickets available to tonight's Hamlet at the Met still available that are 30 bucks. Yes, mid-to-front orchestra are around 200 bucks (rear is 50), but that's true at broadway shows, pop concerts, etc. In fact, people pay much more than that at a lot of pop crap.

Is regional opera doing well? I’ve attended the Met Live HD performances many times and prefer the world-class singing and high production values to attending something provincial in person at a much higher ticket price. So as much as developing new audiences, the cinema broadcasts are perhaps having an opposite effect as well.

There isn't enough of an audience who has the patience for it which existed until the '80s. It takes an effort of concentration which people don't have anymore. Also there aren't the singers who make the few ardent opera fans left go wild. There are good even excellent singers but you have to have people with that extra spark and that has vanished. NY had two opera companies and now only has one. And now that one works on an abbreviated schedule. Also I don't know how eurotrash productions that make no sense bring in new audiences. They have been appearing for decades and the audience hasn't been bolstered by them in the least. It just continues to grow smaller.

Symphonies are suffering the same fate. It's sad. All you have to do is look around at the audiences to see them aging out without any young people in the mix.

Part of it - maybe only a small part, but still - is the death of music classes in elementary school. (Along with art.) They always have money for sports teams, but never for the creative arts in schools. Kids are not being exposed to music when young. Or at least anything classical. I'm guessing they can sing contemporary crap, but that's not the best foundation for an appreciation of classical music, orchestral or choral or operatic.

Another part is that municipalities won't spend any money on the arts. One example was the Jacksonville Symphony - a superb Symphony, especially considering it was in Jacksonville, Florida - it was drowning and close to being dead. The local PTB had no money to assist them in staying viable - NONE - they refused to help - but they had BILLIONS for the Jacksonville Jaguars and BILLIONS for the massive new infrastructure and renovations they wanted to support the approaching Super Bowl. (That was in 2005.)

More dumbing down of America. Our priorities are so fucked up. But that's another thread for another day.

[quote] have you attended a pop music concert? Opera is cheap by the prices of current concerts

Yes, but to survive, opera has to fill seats during an entire season. A pop concert by a celebrity comes and goes after one or two concerts in a city.

No opera celebrities any more.

R20, while I am a rapid opera fan, I'm thoroughly bored by symphonies. I tried during my youth but then decided it just wasn't worth it for me.

Sadly, classical and refined culture is a critically endangered species. Contemporary society is regressing at a rapid pace.

Wake me up when the world is over.

I went to hear Argerich do a couple of Prokofiev piano concertos with Dutoit and Montreal. I wasn't going to sit through the warhorses that ended each program Bolero and The Planets. Well I stayed and they were both absolutely electrifying.

r17 is right. Productions try to excite the fashionable season ticket folks by doing weird edgy high concept but hollow things . . . things which alienate the other people who came to the show expecting something that would fulfill their idea of what traditional opera is all about, and who will not return because their expectations were completely unfulfilled. (And let's not even consider the fact that, in offering an inauthentic production, you have something which is at odds with the basic artistry of the original work itself.)

The most exciting opera productions I've seen (live or on DVD) recently have been of Baroque-era operas done with an authenticity which, paradoxically, is fresh and exciting. Don't believe me? Check out--just to pick one--the DVD or Blu-ray of Rameau's [italic] Hippolyte et Aricie [/italic] (the one from the Opéra National de Paris, with the handsome Topi Lehtipuu and equally handsome, or even more so, Stéphane Degout). You can be authentic without being musty.

When production companies get away from a mindset of empty flashy innovation on the one hand, and stuffy productions of done-to-death warhorses on the other, audiences will begin to feel the thrill again and increasingly reward it with their patronage.

It's the music itself that matters and people no longer have the patience for the art form itself. You might as well try to bring back Vaudeville or the big band era. The days of Ed Sullivan and the Bell Telephone hour are long gone. The audience itself is so niche when was the last time the Met sold out? Probably not in years. You'll get a big crowd for the Zeffirelli spectacles but even they don't pack them in like they used to. Baroque opera needs to be seen in a house much smaller than the Met and no matter how well done the audience for it will always be very small. Even the State theater is too large for baroque opera. It's like the discussion we were having about G and S. The audience for that has practically evaporated even in England.

Ballet has done a better job of broadening it's appeal but it's easier to choreograph Oklahoma! so long as you keep the tights.

David Daniels killed opera.

The last good one was "Tommy."

I've been a few times. Maybe I'm a philistine, but it's boring and their voices are annoying

R13 simply untrue. Vienna state, Bavaria state opera is expensive (and for good reasons!) but the same isn't true for every venue, and recitals and other performances start at very reasonable prices. Stuttgart for example has excellent seats where you see and hear everything for about 15 € up on the balcony. There are discounts for minors, students and for senior citizens. And if you want to splurge, ... a friend bought tickets for an Alicia Keys concert today and pays as much for a decent spot as I do for going to Bayreuth in August.

[quote]Hard for you to sing music that has been sung by Pavarotti, Callas and Corelli.

As the Rome Opera management famously said to Caria Callas when she insisted she could not go on, "Nobody can double Callas!" but really, would anyone want to? Her career was all about her singularity--she had such an odd tone (which many people--myself included--find ugly) and such a unique way of interpretation. I can't imagine anyone else wanting to sing like her.

I can imagine people wanting to sing like Pavarotti or Corelli, though, and being frustrated they can't. Same with Joan Sutherland, who was a once-in-a-century vocal talent (if not the interpreter Callas was).

*MARIA Callas, not Caria callas

A lot of opera goers do come late to the genre .

People bemoan they see no young people in the audience but the age demo at Opera has always skewed older.

Just because some cohort of 20 year olds aren't in the audience now doesn't mean they wont front up once they get past 40 or 50.

Most young people aint gonna appreciate or have the time for Opera. Only later in life do they and they start to paper the houses.

That cycle continues as it always has.

Yes, audiences are likely less with the expansion of entertainment options both at home and out, but it will always exist and have a sustaining core audience.

The Met is still pretty full every time I go (about 5 times per season). Opera like classical music is often appreciated more in later life. I canny imagine Puccini Verdi, Wagner, Rossini, Mozart etc. possibly losing audience in the king run. The music is too glorious and waiting to be discovered by new singers and generations of audiences. I defy most not being moved by a great production of Turendot or Butterfly- Puccini is a good place to start. The stories are ludicrous but the emotions as set forth in the music and performance are timeless.

[quote] I canny imagine Puccini Verdi, Wagner, Rossini, Mozart etc. possibly losing audience in the king run.

Welcome to our country! I am afraid we are familiar with your unusual foreign terms.

Well when I've been it sure hasn't been packed the way it once was. There was a time when people were fighting to get in and a ticket was a precious commodity. How do you explain the closing of City Opera and the Met's abbreviated season? If as you say the older audience will always fill the place it sure isn't happening now. Those are facts that can't be ignored. As well as singers like Pavarotti, Sutherland, Nilsson and Callas. There aren't the singers who could ignite an audience the way these people could. And the current Met Lucia is a staggering act of desperation. It shows the Met clutching at straws having lost all confidence in itself as an institution that matters. One of the first operas I went to was Frau with Nilsson and Marton. What a night! The audience wouldn't leave. It was practically in a state of hysteria like fans at a football game after their team had won. Granted not every night was like that but enough were that you had to have a subscription to get into some of the more sought after performances.

Maybe a minor point, but we also lost an entire generation of men for whom going to the opera was a passion and an event.

That doesn't account for the lack of newer audiences, but it may have something to do with its current state.

I recently stumbled onto this column, which I think nails the issue(s) extremely cogently.

A sample: "In the broader cultural world, we don’t generally consider it a crisis if the creative output in certain forms rises and falls, and we don’t consider shortage of current examples an impediment to the appreciation of older examples. What are your favorite book-length epic poems from the last decade? How about sonnets? Menuets? Landscape paintings? Verse dramas? Silent movies? Cathedrals? It is not clear that the world at large is suffering from the lack of new evening-length performance pieces based on centuries-old technology and instruments. The opera public signals its thirst-level mostly by staying home when recent work is on offer."

'Maybe a minor point, but we also lost an entire generation of men for whom going to the opera was a passion and an event.'

One of the important reasons and not a minor point.

[quote] Well when I've been it sure hasn't been packed the way it once was. There was a time when people were fighting to get in and a ticket was a precious commodity.

NEW YORK IN FUROR FOR SUSAN ALEXANDER

You mean to tell me Quentin Tarantino's "Lucia di Lammermoor" is not putting millennial butts in seats?

R 36, auto correct of my typos- that’s all. I often don’t read what I’ve posted before saving- I should.

Opera is absolutely gorgeous. It’s sad that entire generations of people will never hear any

I seen Phantom of the Opera twice.

I grew up with a poor but serious opera fan in the house (he had collected tons of historical recordings in addition to any special on TV but never bought tickets that I could tell). I could not get into it. There were a few pbs specials in the 80s that aired opera done on sets but staged more like a film, with subtitles. This helped immensely. I've tried to listen to more recent operas sung in English. It usually sounds stupid. I can listen and enjoy what I hear, but don't seek it out. I tend to like stuff like Purcell and Dowland, songs of great emotion but not long stories. People singing lines which should be spoken is always weird to me.

Unless it is done more like a film, and for about the same price, it will never have mass appeal. Even then, Americans hate subtitles.

Try bringing back the American musical. That has more of a chance here.

[quote]I grew up with a poor but serious opera fan in the house (he had collected tons of historical recordings in addition to any special on TV but never bought tickets that I could tell).

Father? Brother? Uncle? Grandfather?

It could use a larger than life superstar like a Pavarotti to make a comeback. Someone with that once-in-a-generation voice. The opera world was flooded with them until about the 1960s. It's the same fate that has befallen the ballet world. Most opera and ballet you see today is so inadequately performed compared to the mid-century heyday of these arts - it's no wonder people leave the theater thinking - huh, is that all?

David Daniels made opera sordid and gay.

R49 David Daniels had a nice voice for a certain type of Händel aria. The CD with "Oh Lord, whose mercies numberless" was his only good one. There are many, many countertenors who are at least his good, have voices capable of more than exactly one colour and souls capable of portraying more than a single emotion of placid ambivalence. What I want to say is: Daniels is no loss for opera at all. As a person, he was always repulsive.

[quote]Most opera and ballet you see today is so inadequately performed compared to the mid-century heyday of these arts - it's no wonder people leave the theater thinking - huh, is that all?

Would today's audiences even know the difference? Short attention spans, indifference to the arts, the need for immediate gratification, the proliferation of social media supplanting personal interaction, and the growing tendency to be much happier experiencing art - such as it is - from the living room couch, I think, has much more to do with its precarious position. Much of that speaks to the disinterest of younger, or new audiences.

And there are still other factors. I don't live near NYC so I pay to watch the live broadcasts in a local theater. But I'm not a body in a seat at the Met (or any other opera house) so no one sees me experiencing and enjoying the opera. And I have no idea whether the cost of my ticket ever gets to the Met's coffers.

And let's face it, nearly half the population in this United States isn't likely to be proponents of the arts. There's clueless and wants to learn and experience the world, and there's clueless that's perfectly happy to stay as dumb as they are, in their own world. That's a polite way of putting it. But that was probably always the case, anyway. It's just probably a larger factor these days.

There are myriad reasons for it's precariousness, but I still think one of the major reasons is the loss of a generation of men that were opera aficionados. I'd have to search for an existing thread first, but we could start a thread about the tremendous loss to culture and the arts as a result of all the men we lost to AIDS. There are essays out there that address this decimation, but this thread is specifically about opera.

When I went to the opera in my twenties, the audience was full of senior citizens. Now I'm 65, and the audience is still full of senior citizens. Apparently a reverse Dorian Gray situation is happening.

I just performed in a opera at the newly revived Spoleto festival and of the three operas presented their attendance was spotty but enthusiastic. Don’t know what you want to make of that.

The chamber music series though was packed every performance, two each day!

Wasn’t there an article a few years back saying opera and the symphony are racist? Something about privilege. No one wants to see something “anti-woke” 🙄

New York City Opera never had deep pockets of the MET. NYCO was the "people's opera" as one mayor of NYC famously put it.

"In short, artistic excellence is not enough. Any institution, big or small, old or new, must have a clear artistic vision, a purpose that connects with audiences and the community. But the performing arts have never been profit-making endeavors. It is more important than ever that all institutions, from a fledgling string quartet to the lofty Metropolitan Opera, have an effective business model"

Opera is dead or dying because so few voices come also with actors that bring roles alive.

Figlia impura! Montserrat Caballé isn't just singing those words, she's cursing Elizabeth I four thousand ways from Sunday. You feel the tension! A smarter woman would have realized that getting on bad side of Elizabeth I surely would mean her death. But Mary, Queen of Scots (Montserrat Caballé) is going to get her say down on record regardless.

Franco Corelli! Damn that man was one hot Italian stud! Just look at those legs!

Back on track, you just don't have many if any performances like this today. More is the pity...

Fiorenza Cossotto as Amneris at the MET. She brought down the house.

[quote] I just performed in a opera at the newly revived Spoleto festival

I was JUST wondering what happened to Spoleto. I just assumed it died with Menotti.

Which reminds me, does any opera company produce Menotti any more? His lover was Samuel Barber, whose operas were getting a second look about a decade back

R58, That was from Leontyne Price's final MET performance. Remember it like it was yesterday, Cossotto almost stole the whole show.

Opera these days also demands the 'look' as well as the 'voice'.

In the days of old, any old fat frump with a glorious voice could play the romantic lead and get away with it.

By and large, not so much today.

I wonder if many a good singer has just slipped by because the package demands a pretty face as well these days.

If live opera is truly dying it’s because people can create an opera experience in their homes that is more comfortable and cheaper than actually going to an opera. I have a excellent sound system, so putting on a CD while reading a libretto is often a much more pleasurable experience than sitting in an opera house, and God knows it’s a lot less expensive.

As a gayling, I knew there must be something to love in opera, because so many people did.

To learn to enjoy it, I would force myself to sit through the PBS telecast. Inevitably I would fall asleep. By the 4th or 5th, I finally began to enjoy it--It was the MET Broadcast of Verdi's Don Carlo with Mirella Freni.

Ive be a rabid fan of opera ever since--at least 35years.

Menotti is still occasionally performed. Amahl is one of the most performed American operas, and one can still occasionally see The Medium in tandem with another one act opera.

Help, Help the Globolinks not so much.

R56, I first saw that opera at an OONY concert performance. I didn't know the plot.

The second she sang "Bastarda!" I sat straight up in my seat--Did she just call Queen Elizabeth a bastard?!!! She did!

That was an awesome night

Ballad of Baby Doe, one of the best damn American operas NYCO produced. Beverly Sills owned that role.

It isn't just opera. The audience for choral music is dying off as well, and so is the interest in younger people to sing in a choir. It's a loss, but such is the way of the world. Things end.

I've seen two operas -- Madame Butterfly and Eugene Onegin -- and both times I was bored out of my mind.

Conversely, I've seen a few operettas -- The Pirates of Penzance, The Merry Widow, The Student Prince -- and had an absolute blast at all of them.

Eye Candy!

R69, saw that when it came to Bway. It was a valiant effort but not sure it made anyone into an opera fan

[quote] I've seen two operas -- Madame Butterfly and Eugene Onegin -- and both times I was bored out of my mind.

I always take newbies to Turandot. Simple story, nice choruses, diva with a huge voice--everyone loves it

Lucia is always drenched in blood.

When they finish carrying liu off in Turandot, I cant help myself but poke the newbie next to me and tell 'em Puccini's dead too.

DO you tell them that he died before finishing Turandot? Or is that too much?

What's the best recording of Turandot? Videot and/or audiot?

Pavarotti & Sutherland is the best RECORDED version of Turandot.

The Corelli/Neilson crazies will chime in , of course. I'm talking about RECORDED and not on stage.

I tell them he dies before he could finish the rest of the opera R74.

After Liu expires we get a kind of best of Turandot leading to the finale.

[quote] I tell them he dies before he could finish the rest of the opera [R74].

How thrilled they must be to have the opera interrupted so they can hear your trivia.

At that point I hope you explained as well that at the world premiere at La Scala Toscanini put down his baton ending the opera as this was where Puccini ended his composing.

I think Alfano did as well as he could as one poster put it using the best music to give us some sort of satisfying ending on an exhilarating note. Despite the fact that both characters are pretty monstrous and deserve no such happiness. The good characters end up in misery and dead. Italian irony.

[quote] Pavarotti & Sutherland is the best RECORDED version of Turandot.

It’s almost the best recorded version of anything ever.

BREAKING NEWS: Nobody listens to CDs anymore or has a ZIP drive to save their files

Recorded music changed everything, for bad, and for good. Imagine a world where all music, by definition, was live. Where if you were listening to music, somebody was playing it at that very moment. Where if you wanted to hear music, you had to go to somewhere where somebody was playing it. It’s almost impossible to imagine now

This reminds me of the time I went to the Cloisters Medieval Christmas fundraiser. I was about 40 at the time. It was lovely - a guided tour of the tapestries, gorgeous medieval music...and lots of really old people. I was sat at the young people table, and it turned out that over half of the young people worked for the Met/Cloisters and they peppered me with questions as to how to get younger people (with money) interested in the Cloisters. I didn't know what to say. I grew up in a family where opera, medieval chanting, classical music was the backdrop. My parents sent me to France to see Chartres and Reims.

Younger people with new money (tech/finance) did not grow up in homes where opera/classical music was played. They don't care. They don't go to Chartres, they go to influencer places like Bali and Ibiza.

Yes, sadly, the opera, the symphonies and medieval music is dying and there is no way to stop this. It is a paradigm shift.

Opera is an acquired taste, particularly if you haven't grown up with it. It's also considered elite in the US.

It's doomed.

R47 Grandfather.

He was a New Yorker and supposedly his mother didn't speak English in the home, so I guess he was used to that.

But she didn't speak Italian either!

[quote] Opera like classical music is often appreciated more in later life. I canny imagine Puccini Verdi, Wagner, Rossini, Mozart etc. possibly losing audience in the long run.

R35 elders inform me that Mozart et al. have a certain sexual, primal and passionate youthful element in the music of their operas, but as a younger person untrained in classical arts, I just can't hear or identify it. Is this a case of Emperor's New Clothes, or am I missing something?

Obviously, I know that Wolfie in particular was fond of sex, and had a raunchy sense of humour in his personal life. But in his work, it's hard for me to pick it out.

Celebrity endorsements would help

I liked rock and Broadway musicals when I was very young. Started to get into opera in my 20s when I became addicted to Cosi Fan Tutte which I took out of the library. Also seeing the PBS Boheme with Pavarotti and Scotto helped. Now I prefer other Puccini operas to Boheme. And Turandot is one of the best. The melodies though rich don't become cloying and it is very primal, modern in its way. God knows how many packs of cigs he smoked a day, he probably had nicotine yellow fingers, but I think he had a few more amazing operas in him.

The social élite no longer appreciate high culture which contributes to its decline.

R90 = Oswald Spengler

[quote] The social élite no longer appreciate high culture which contributes to its decline.

Ain't that the truth

I find Mozart to be a bore.

Don Giovanni’s first act is endless. Magic Flute makes no sense.

I always thought people went to opera more as a status thing, as opposed to actually enjoying it. They want to seem cultured and highbrow, especially in New York.

Opera is fine, at least outside of United States anyway. In Europe, South America, Japan and few other areas performances sell well and houses are full. Then again you also find in many instances performing and arts in general receive good to generous state funding which helps in various ways.

Yes, there is a problem with "star power" voices. They just aren't out there as they once were, and worse more and more singers are taught or told to sing on interest, and not spend capital. Thus you get incredibly boring and routine performances by singers who don't really put much of themselves into performance.

Finally huge problem for New York City and perhaps some other areas of USA is the huge size of opera houses. The MET was built vastly larger than the old Metropolitan Opera house in order to democratize performances. More seats in theory translated into not just the well off and connected being able to attend performances. Fair enough I suppose, but you need huge voices to fill that barn of a place, and not all of even best singers can do so. More then a few opera singers ruined or at least had problems with their instruments afterwards by tackling roles at the MET. Siegfried Jerusalem comes to mind.

MET is largest opera house in world at 3,800 seats. It takes great planning and effort to sell out or at least get anywhere near per performance to make things profitable. Hence you get endless performances of same old warhorse opera productions. Providing voices can be found such productions are predictable sources of revenue.

Bass Sava Vemić has makings of a great talent.

Fair point about voices and big auditoriums, and that would be very telling with an audience homogeneously comprising experienced and sophisticated opera-goers; but do the majority of those who sit in the farthest, cheapest, least acoustically-favored, seats actually care whether they are or are not receiving the full richness and power of the singer? Naturally, if you'd ask them, they'd say they want the best, just on general principle; but is it really likely that they could even tell the difference? I suspect that, as long as they see spectacle happening onstage and can hear a tuneful little something or other from that general direction, their feelings about the performance will tend to accord with the degree of enthusiasm of the audience as a whole. This is not to say that they should not, when possible, be provided with equal high quality sound; but it's foolish for a vocal artist to ruin his or her voice just to reach someone who couldn't appreciate it.

Opera fans: what would you say is the best English-language opera? And what is the best recording of that opera?

I’m 34. I appreciate opera but it comes off snooty and boring. And it’s unpleasant to the ear that’s not used to it. It would be torture to sit through.

Both Don Giovanni and Marriage of Figaro are very long operas yet they are two of the very most popular. Make of that what you will.

[quote] I always thought people went to opera more as a status thing, as opposed to actually enjoying it. They want to seem cultured and highbrow, especially in New York.

Some people may think it's a status thing, but when the MET has to fill 4000 seats every night, status is only a tiny part of the actual patrons. It's not a status thing in Italy, for example--it's every day entertainment, although even that's changing rapidly to tilt to the aged.

[quote] I’m 34. I appreciate opera but it comes off snooty and boring. And it’s unpleasant to the ear that’s not used to it. It would be torture to sit through.

It's an acquired taste if you didn't grow up hearing it. Before you go to an opera, learn about it on YouTube. The voices and the story make so much sense if you have some background to operatic tradition.

A lot of people go not because it gives them a sense of superiority but because they actually enjoy it. Believe it or not if done well it can be entertaining and actually exciting. But then I would never find a football or baseball game no matter how important exciting in a million years.

You might want to try Ingmar Bergman's film of The Magic Flute which is very enjoyable though he ruins the end by having too many shots of his little daughter enjoying the performance.

R98, opera was always seen as a foreign idiom by Americans and the British; there isn't a huge universe of English-language opera. The greatest (well, to me) is the very first: Purcell's Dido & Aeneas, from 1689. It's not a "typical" opera in any respect: it's from the baroque era, uses a small orchestra, and it's short, about 50 minutes long. I'd go with the version conducted by Emmanuelle Haim, with Susan Graham as Dido.

R31, what is Bayreuth like? I fantasize about going even while suspecting I’d hate it.

The MET is rarely sold out, and I hate the directors modernizing the plot, off we go to Las Vegas, or why is Lucia in a rust belt city in modern dress. Each year I seriously consider not renewing my subscription.

Just saw a great production of Aida in LA

[quote] Purcell's Dido & Aeneas

Or "Dildo and Anus" as we called it in music school.

The Janet Baker Dido is also quite wonderful. Barber's Vanessa at one time used to be done at the Met though I don't believe it has been done in quite a while.

Purcell has some wonderful other operas including King Arthur and The Fairy Queen. Also some Handel English oratorios which are filled with great music have been done on the opera stage including Samson and Semele.

[quote]Opera fans: what would you say is the best English-language opera? And what is the best recording of that opera?

I would say any of the Britten operas that are also conducted by Britten: Peter Grimes, Billy Budd, Albert Herring, Turn Of The Screw, Midsummer Night's Dream. Especially Peter Grimes.

But the the 1977 Houston Grand Opera recording of Porgy And Bess is pretty terrific.

One of the puzzling reason modern opera sucks is because they don’t write arias anymore. They are all recitative.

I saw that Houston Grand Opera production on Broadway 3 times. It was tremendous. Even better than what you hear on the recording. One of the great theatrical productions that I've seen. Have had no desire to see it in a house as large as the Met.

[quote] Both Don Giovanni and Marriage of Figaro are very long operas yet they are two of the very most popular. Make of that what you will.

I could listen to the Marriage of Figaro on a loop ad infinitum. The music is gorgeous. The second act is phenomenal, but really the entire opera is fantastic.

We signed up for a season. Because, you know, we’re gay, we’re cultured and not immune to artistic expression. The best part was dressing up, pre-flight cocktails and flirting with the elder gays in their opera pumps. The show, even with the Surcaps, was boring. We tried to like it, my friend is on the board. It was overall forgettable and we haven’t been back. The idea of opera seems better than the reality.

Alas, the few handsome tenors no longer wear tights...no need to tote my opera binocular or as they are called in polite society opera glasses.

You can always tell who's in the audience just to show off. They don't understand operatic traditions and how the audience reacts.

I often go to an opera and wish they had just done "highlights" of the opera.

Is ballet suffering like opera too? Or does the constant stream of little girls hoping to be ballet dancers keep it alive?

[quote] You can always tell who's in the audience just to show off. They don't understand operatic traditions and how the audience reacts.

I’ve seen this. There’s always someone who has to be first to shout “bravo”, and they can’t be bothered to wait until the music ends

I saw a Traviata once and a guy was whistling shrilly during applause breaks. Whistling, at an Italian opera. I’m sure that went over well.

R119, I love your post.

The people who shout Bravo even before the singer finishes his/her final note should be publicly flogged. God how they love to ruin a performance.

r118 I've been a ballet subscriber for nearly fifty years (only suspended because of the COVID situation). Ballet doesn't seem to be suffering (at least, not any more than it has for a century) . . . because who doesn't like to see good-looking people with good-looking bodies prancing around to pretty music? Traditional classic ballet is a bit of a hard sell because you need to understand the different techniques/schools and their development to really get the most out of it; but [italic] The Nutcracker [/italic] is enough of a yuletide tradition that ballet gains acceptance through its association with the holiday season . . . and a certain percentage of those people fall in love with the art and start attending other ballet and dance. More contemporary ballet and modern dance keep the Dance scene vibrant and interesting (even for those who prefer traditional ballet). Ballet audiences and opera audiences really are quite different in their make-up; there are fewer [italic] poseurs [/italic] in the ballet audience, fewer people who are just there to be seen. I've also found ballet audience members to be more open and friendly with each other, more mellow, with no putting on airs. [italic] Ballet: More mellow, less meow. [/italic]

I’m still mad about “Bravo Guy” as we called him, in Chicago 30 years ago.

[quote] I’ve seen this. There’s always someone who has to be first to shout “bravo”, and they can’t be bothered to wait until the music ends

Once I was sitting next two young gays who were trying to show they were opera fans. They misheard Brava! as Diva! and would keep yelling that. Now, when a Diva has huge fans in the audience and she does amazingly, people can yell Diva! but they were doing it for everything

Not to start a war, but the symphony goers seem more sophisticated and in the know.

You only applaud at the end AND only when the conductor signals he has finished by lowering his baton/ hand or a gesture to say it's OK to clap. Some conductors can wait a good 15 seconds of silence before signalling to applaud.

American opera isn't dying. There have been dozens and dozens of good new operas over the last twenty years.

Younger audiences exist. Productions just need to be tailored to interest them. I'm president of a regional opera board and a recent La Boheme we did was marketed to younger people and half our audience was under forty and half of those had not been to an opera before and loved it and will be back.

It's just not part of the pop culture scene, mainly because the advertising dollar which drives pop culture has no interest in it and schools have jettisoned fine arts and fine arts exposure as frills and we've axed support for fine arts out of civic budgets.

[quote]Opera has made very little outreach to younger generations. The ticket prices are too high. Opera house pride themselves for being elite.

Completely agreed; I think they don't want to do anything to upset the olds that are their steady customers, but ticket prices are very high. I realize the purists would think this is an abomination, but even try some "opera light" where they're performing an abbreviated version of the opera at a reduced cost. It brings in younger people who don't want to spend the time & the money now, but might do so in the future if you hooked them in.

[R98] My vote is for Nixon in China, and my favourite recording is the Opera Colorado one conducted by Marin Alsop.

I have a neighbor who is over 100 years old; her parents immigrated from Italy; it’s a fascinating look at how things have changed over the years. Both parents were tailors and when my neighbor was very young she learned how to sew as well. Back when all clothes were made in the US not in China so many people made their living in the garment industry.

They were all big opera buffs. She and her friend used to work all day then wait on line outside the old opera house to see a performance.

She told me that once a man came to her father and asked him to make him a cape he could wear to the opera and she said him made him a beautiful one. The elegance!!!

[quote] American opera isn't dying. There have been dozens and dozens of good new operas over the last twenty years.

I'm a big opera fan and I can't even name one.

The production of Akhnaten that just closed at the Met seemed to be very well received and had a fairly young audience, particularly for a modern opera.

Here’s Anthony Roth Costanzo prepping for the role.

I can't wait for the Met production of " Tommy."

R131, yes I was rather surprised that young people came out for Akhnaten,

I don't know, however, if this will translate into regular opera attendance or is this just a one-off.

I often see younger people at La Boheme, Carmen, and Marriage of Figaro, but rarely see them at other operas--telling me they tend to stick to the most popular one.

When I was a student, the MET and the NYCO offered all sorts of deals for cheaper seats. Do these discounts still exist at the MET?

Is there an event from opera history that would make for a good movie/mini-series? Maybe that might inspire younger people to get interested in opera. Or a movie/mini-series set in the opera world. I watched Falling for Figaro a couple of nights ago and while the soundtrack -- wall-to-wall opera -- was glorious, the movie itself was an uninspired, predictable rom-com. Something better -- a stronger plot, deeper characters, a starry cast -- could do the job.

One of my favorite operas is Mozart's La Clemenza di Tito. Levine kept programming it though it continually got embarrassingly small audiences. A great Ponnelle production with Vanness as Vitellia giving the performance of a lifetime. I saw her do it once in a wheelchair on the side of the Met stage because she had I believe badly sprained her ankle. A standby mouthed and performed the stage performance. Dubbing live. Vanness was on fire . I feel privileged to have seen her in that role a number of times.

Another good opera in English is Ballad of Baby Doe though that might have been mentioned. Don't believe the Met has ever done it.

I was presently surprised that I enjoyed "The Rake's Progress."

DIVA is my favorite movie involving opera.

If only sitting through Wagner's 15-hour Ring Cycle were this much fun!

Kill the wabbit! Kill the wabbit! Kill the Wabbit!

HOJOTO! HOJOTO!

Where's Kirsten Flagstad when we need her?

Whoops! Wrong link....

During her heyday, Scotto convinces her lapdog, Jimmy Levine that she's a Wagnerian dramatic soprano.

Time for another film like "Aria" !

John Hurt from "Aria"

Depuis le jour, also from "Aria".

[quote]Here’s Anthony Roth Costanzo prepping for the role.

I never want to hear the name Anthony Roth Costanzo and the word "prepping" in the same sentence again.

Aria was a complete bore oddly

My brother and I watched Aria one afternoon and just as the women were jumping up and down with their bare breasts flopping, my dad suddenly walked in with some elderly friends (showing them around). They all laughed, but my very religious brother was mortified.

Some of the Aria segments were fun such as Julien Temple's Rigoletto montage at The Madonna Inn. Some was dreary.

Am actually wanting to write a libretto. How does one go about it? I have some experience writing poetry & stories semi-professionally, but not lyrics, and while I do play a musical instrument I am not proficient enough to write or sight-read music.

I could see it returning but being trashy.

R151 full circle, then. Opera at its glamorous height in history was trashy.

Is the 1990s Farinelli film as gloriously shitastic as it looks?

Reading this thread has been sad! Such a richness of raw emotion is experienced with Opera, that it is hard to actually contemplate its death. Very few forms of music have what it offers. I always try to listen to some Opera on Saturday evenings. Sometimes I'm not in the right mood, but tonight it was Casta Diva, Adagio in G Minor, and finishing up with some Operatic Jewish Folk Music by Inessa Galante. (below) .

Voice like this would make your bussy moist.

Opera singer these days such as Florez just sound like they nose is clogged from the allergy in spring season. Opera is dead already. Sad.

The Baltic states have high attendance at opera, ballet and symphony performances. Paris is noted for a high attendance of younger people. So it really varies from place to place.

The USA is kind of a cultural wasteland compared to what's happening in Europe.

Not WOKE enough and white guilt-ridden liberals don't want to support a white privilege art form, lest people think they are racists.

The woke audience then has no idea how many singers of color currently appear on American opera stages

Modern opera singers (Florez, Didanato, Fleming etc) sound completely different than the old school singers (Corelli, Sutherland, Pavarotti, Tucker etc). Now opera singers these days sound like a pop singers singing opera. It doesn't even sound like opera anymore.

This is an old-school performance. It completely knocked the new singers out of the park.

Interesting this was bumped just as my shuffle handed me Aretha's attempt at 'Nessun Dorma'.

It....uh...was...well...it was sung. It sure was a song. That she sang once. And someone onstage recorded it. Um. Yeah.

This is the epiphany of operatic singing. Despite we don't have singer like them anymore, we have recording in the past.

woke up and by happenstance I listened to this-

in terms of new blood watching and working in opera is it that we need fresh contemporary topics and stories and characters? like a show about a tragic cam girl or sth

I was interested in seeing the recent Boston production of Boheme that played a la Merrily We Roll Along, that is, backwards, but when I saw that two seats in the balcony were going to set me back almost four hundred dollars, I thought, “well, I’m not THAT interested.”

Perhaps going electro and PoMo didn't help the genre. Though personally I like some experimental and contempo opera.

E.g. Schmidt's adaptation of GORMENGHAST. It's objectively horrible, off-model and tone-deaf, but I adore it in its weird atonal chilly synthy clacky glory. I even enjoy singing or humming along to it sometimes, though it's eminently tuneless to be honest.

Sometimes something just grabs you by the ears and you end up liking it in spite of everything. I think if you listen to enough operas across time, you'll eventually find one that does that for you.

A problem with the MET in NY is it’s just too big to enjoy opera. Comedies never come off well. Everything is too far away

I thought it said Oprah…I was momentarily excited

One of the reasons baroque opera has made such a comeback is that, ironically, it’s not tied to the past. No one has seen these operas for hundreds of years. We have only limited knowledge of what they are “supposed” to sound or look like, so creative teams have a great deal of freedom. They are, effectively, new operas.

Someone mentioned "The Ed Sullivan Show" as an example of popular culture's moving on.

This specific example is, IMO, a key contributor to the lack of interest in opera.

On "TESS," I remember watching Joan Sutherland sing the "staircase" aria from "Lucia di Lammermoor." Performing guests also included Robert Merrill, Beverly Sills, and more.

TV introduced my generation to opera!

[Quote] One of the reasons baroque opera has made such a comeback is that, ironically, it’s not tied to the past.

Too bad they’re such a bore. Thank god that Handel revival is over

Yes, young people have to be introduced to Opera via popular culture to come to appreciate it.

I'm grateful to the city of Madrid for free access to opera in public squares, parks, etc when I was a young boy and to my mother for noticing my interest. She took me to the opera frequently there after.

How could young people not appreciate sublime performances like this?

Can anyone well-versed recommend an affordable and accessible-to-newbies production to see in early 2023 in the U.K.?

Our middle school kids are going to see Tosca in 2 weeks. I don't anticipate many of them enjoying the experience, because most of them didn't even know what opera was when we told them about the field trip, but at least they're being exposed to it. It's not quite "dead" yet.

R174 that's good, they're lucky.

As a kid growing up in the backwoods, the only thing close to opera I was ever exposed to was pantomime or the odd Gilbert & Sullivan. To this day, I think I was genuinely scarred at 8 years old by seeing 'The Mikado' with no context.

R174. You can help students to take more interest by explaining the story of Tosca to them before their outing. By teaching them to read the libretto between acts, . By touting the skills of the leading vocalists, the orchestra, the artistry of the sets and costumes, etc. I would make them excited to have this opportunity.

We're seeing two, maybe three operas this year....but we're old.

R173. I've only attended opera at the Royal Opera House but at this link you can see at the link there is at least one alternative. I wonder how impressive these productions are? Can any Brits weigh in?

When I take a newbie to the opera I try to start them off with Puccini. La Boheme if possible. Everybody loves La Boheme. But anything Puccini will do.

It'll continue to exist much as it does now -a niche performing art rather than a more general albeit high brow one. Like Chamber Music or Shakespeare plays, It'll be around but you'll have to look for it. People can't handle the pace of operatic storytelling and no one will pay to sit through an opera performed in a different language than their own. Hell, we don't even know if movie theaters will make it.

A friend sent this link. I thought it was a joke initially. Opera in Kansas? At Wichita State University? Oh, yes, and this is a very good production IMO. Beautiful. If Opera is being performed marvelously in Wichita how dead can opera be?

R180, everyone in the audience is 90 years old. That's how dead.

Maybe it should be promoted more. Maybe have an MTV, kind of channel for Opera. I don't know if there is one already. If not maybe there should be.

R182, Television exists to promote commerce, not culture. That is to say, commercials are the main show, and programs exist because of them. So what sponsors do you envision to support an All-Opera Channel?

No; PBS "and donors like you" will be the conduit for the foreseeable future.

[Quote] Maybe it should be promoted more. Maybe have an MTV, kind of channel for Opera. I don't know if there is one already. If not maybe there should be.

When it first came out, the Bravo TV channel was for the fine arts like opera, ballet, theatre. We saw how that turned out

I'm as corny as Kansas made opera...

There are some opera’s which can still appeal to young people imho: “Der Freischütz”, “Les Huguenots”, “Tristan und Isolde”, “Boris Godunov”, “Wozzeck”, to name a few. Opera’s that are still thematically and musically edgy and arresting.

Am listening to 'Slut! You Slut!' from the 2005 Glimmerglass production of THE MINES OF SULPHUR. Seems apt for a Datalounge discussion.

R183 Perhaps for the US... but Europeans are bringing it mainstream. Spain's Got Talent quite often features young opera singers, and it is a refreshing experience each time I see one.

This lad below from last year is simply spectacular!

Tristan and Isolde would be TORTURE to a newbie. If you want Wagner, try RHEINGOLD. Good tunes, screaming dwarves, mermaids.

[quote] There are some opera’s which can still appeal to young people imho: “Der Freischütz”, “Les Huguenots”, “Tristan und Isolde”, “Boris Godunov”, “Wozzeck”, to name a few. Opera’s that are still thematically and musically edgy and arresting.

ALL of those would be torture to young people. Wozzeck?? Young people would run away fast from opera if subjected to that.

When I was young, I though “Wozzeck” was more riveting than something like “Madame Butterfly” and I didn’t know much about classical music.

For newbies, I'd send them to Cavalleria Rusticana-Mascagni as their very first. Tuneful, dramatic and short. Perfect!.

After that it would be any of the following- Magic Flute-Mozart, La Boheme or Butterfly-Puccini, La Traviata or Rigoletto or Aida-Verdi, L'elisir d'amore-Donizetti, Norma or Sonnambula-Bellini, Barber Of Serville or L'italiana in Algeri-Rossini, Faust-Gounod, Orpheus-Gluck.

Strauss & Wagner and any 20th century stuff would frighten them off.

I usually take newbies to Turandot--tuneful music, huge sets, fat lady sings. It's got everything.

You can clearly hear the influence of Wagner in familiar theme music (like John Williams' Star Wars) so Wagner's big, brassy sound could certainly appeal to those new to opera. Granted, you wouldn't recommend sitting through the Ring, but something like The Flying Dutchman can be a great introduction to opera - not too long, impactful music, a simple plot.

She retired from daytime tv years ago and hangs out with Gayle

[quote] Any 20th century stuff would frighten them off.

Idk about that. Most of my first operas were on the C.20 to C.21/contempo timeline--from Salome and Der Rosenkavalier; to Akhnaten, Death In Venice and Nixon In China; to Brokeback Mountain, Angels In America, and Angel's Bone--and it wasn't until I'd seen and heard those that I went back to listen to some golden age material (and even then, it was French operetta I gravitated to rather than the 'big name' shows). You start where you're meant to start, i.e. there's no prescriptive way to approach the genre or designated startpoint, nor should there be.

Good Lord R194 The Flying Dutchman!

I guarantee it would be the newbie's first and last opera.

TURANDOT is a good 20th century opera for newbies also, and they’ll enjoy recognizing “Nessun Dorma.”

I’m a teacher in LA and talk up the opera to my fellow teachers.

Well, LA Opera had a Ring Cycle that wasn’t selling, so my principal was given tickets to give to the staff.

I tried to warn them, but they all went, and now refuse to let me talk about opera anymore.

Most people under 50 don’t even flinch at Death Metal, and lots of teens are used to weird and non-melodic pop music, so I doubt they would find 20th Century music as upsetting as older generations.

How does one get into Opera. I would like to, but where do I start?

R201 lots of prep, strong fingers and a fresh full bottle of lube

R201, nothing like seeing an opera live. Just go and check one out.

If you don’t live near an opera company, the MET shows them live on movie screens all over the country. That’s a good second best option.

It almost doesn’t matter what you see—but Carmen, Aida, La Boheme, and La Traviata are the four most popular. I’d add Cavalleria Rusticana and Pagliacci (two short operas usually performed together) to the list.

I live Italian opera and was scared of seeing Wagner for decades. I finally went and WOW—Wagner really blew me away.

R203 'Vesti la giubba' makes me SO FUCKING SAD. I've seen and heard more tragic and haunting and disturbing operas, but to my ear that one song is just so deeply pathetically desperately miserable and resigned.

It's not for peasants, bitches.

I think The Flying Dutchman is a great introduction to opera for those who might find the classics too "pretty".

Didn't Tolkien pinch quite a bit of the Ring Cycle for LOTR? If so then Millennials & Zillennials should find a point of easy connection there.

If someone wanted to move laterally into doing some writing and directing work (paid or volunteer) for national opera in Britain, how would they best go about that? Asking for a friend...