Redeeming Harry

My thoughts are that Muriel really needs to increase the number of FFs we get per day.

Harry should either enroll in school or get a 9-to-5 job.

At the drive thru, afternoon shift

They both retire from public life, raise their kids and devote themselves to gardening and philanthropy.

I don't care about rehabbing their image. I just want them to go away.

Thanks, R1 -- that's the best laugh I've had in weeks!

Harry needs to set Meg straight about his royal family and move back to Britain. Meg needs to take a seat. Stay or go Meg but just stfu.

Figuratively, William had harry and Meghan beheaded this Platinum Jubilee weekend.

He needs to transition. She needs to do ultra dramatic Tammy complete with a new platinum wig.

OP=sunshine sachs

I see two potentially successful paths for them, but both involve eating shit in a way I can’t imagine either of them would do.

The first is to announce that after going home for the Jubilee, they realize they made a mistake, they miss being with the larger family, and they will be moving home to England so that their kids can grow up with their cousins. This would have to include cancellation of any pending private projects (Harry’s book, etc) and public acknowledgment that they lashed out against the family because they were feeling defensive and guarded after become parents. Then they’d have to spend the next 10 years taking the dregs of the royal visits and living in Frogmore Cottage and being obsequiously respectful of Charles’ and Will’s status. The tradeoff is they can keep putting on airs and spending money like water.

The second path is to fully embrace America and announce they will no longer be using their royal names/titles and will not accept royal status for the kids. In addition, they will apologize for commenting on family matters in public and say they will no longer be making any statements about their family, which is private and important to them (again, Harry’s book will be cancelled). Then they rebuild these relationships verrrrry slowly and live fully private lives (no award shows or activities other than things like Invictus in which they’re directly involved).

^ Do not drive. Put away all items you may trip over in your drunken stupor. You are having a drunken fantasy. The chances of either of them taking any responsibility for their actions, apologizing, umm snowballs chance in hell.

OP asked what we would advise them to do, not what they are likely to do.

Why?

Harry hits the nuclear button, shaves his head, poses nude and gets an OnlyFans account.

Meghan did not get the celebrity status she thought she was going to get moving to the US.

Her Spotify deal was a disaster, her Netflix deal was a disaster and nothing got off the ground and crushed any interest Americans had of them.

I feel like their Netflix reality show is a last minute attempt of relevancy. I don’t think they wanted to resort to a reality show.

Originally I thought divorcing Harry eventually would be a great move for her to prolong her relevancy but because she’s so irrelevant, she’s going to always need Harry to get attention.

So he’s stuck.

There’s no hope for either of them. Harry was nothing but a Prince. He had no talent or intelligence or anything. They can’t even be entertaining and trashy.

Face it, their move to Southern California has been a flop, they want to be popular with the public but they have nothing at all to offer. They're just two more shallow not-as-rich-as-they-pretend twats, living useless and uninteresting lives.

I'd tell them to do what Harry wanted to do in the first place, go to Botswana and set up a wildlife preserve. Then they'd have an interesting story to tell on social media and on Netflix, Charles could send them "charitable" funds without causing a fuss, Harry could win the public back by being photographed by cuddling cute animals or crying over elephants killed for their tusks, and so what if Meghan was so bored she'd start slamming down cocktails at breakfast. Does she want to be happy, or does she want to be a social media star???

I love Harry Reems.

The Harry & Meghan Troll strikes again. With nothing to offer. ONCE AGAIN.

They should lay low and focus on family, well-being. Get a modest, safe home. Stay off the world stage. Live a life that supports their claims of wanting a non royal, private life. m can do lifestyle, Tig type things. Harry might want to study something and develop himself as a private citizen, hell he could learn carpentry. Anything really. Be private and dignified and don’t act like a guru or expert when he has not yet experienced real life.

Make a live action porn film together, like her idoll Kimme. Maybe several, some orgy, bondage.

They should stop trying to jump on every Twitter hashtag movement. Find something authentic to do. I agree that Meghan would do well at lifestyle – something light and upbeat, that people enjoy. I'm sorry, humanitarianism is dreary and boring. Start as a guest judge on Top Chef, something like that.

The only thing that made them interesting was being royal. America has celebrities and they is no mystery to that anymore.

They should say Archie loved playing with his cousins, and adored his grandparents. They've decided to go back to Britain so their children can enjoy their extended family.

They still have reservations about royal life, so they live relatively under the radar, and gradually return to being working royals.

Meghan throws herself at Catherine's feet, and she agrees to help rehab her image.

It's really simply.

King Charles looks around at the slimmed down Monarchy and notices a sizable age gap that will leave William and Kate alone with very ancient Anne and simply old Edward. God knows William wont allow his children to work before they are in their 30s. Charles decides that he wants to spend his remaining years around both of his sons and makes Harry and Meghan an offer to return with a financial kickback.

But what about the bad PR and polling? Well, Camilla terrorized Saint Diana and had abysmal approval ratings at one point as well. Now she is about to become the next Queen of the United Kingdom. Anything is fucking possible with the might of the Royal Family's PR behind you. Conservative rags will fall in line, as they always do for the royals. Liberal rags were already more favorable to Harry & Meghan.

But what about Meghan? She "cant help herself". She has already proven since her CA move to know her PR cues. The Oprah interview was a mistake but she had a plan and met her goal. It embolden a lot of people to her. So, she and Harry (whose towed the line all his life till 2019) will be easily given pointers. What Harry and Meghan needed was a break, as they stated. Go with that line as an excuse then move forward.

Once back, they will basically be regulated to Edwaed's pathetic status. Do some less than glamorous evens in exchange for access. Lean heavily on Harry's Invictus Game successes (where there are many). Within a decade, as another poster noted, they will be back in the fold with two attractive kids to bring to events.

There will always be a sizable segment that will have it out for Meghan unless she offs herself, but most people will move on. As Camilla has proven, time heals all wounds. As long as you don't commit a crime like Andrew.

r24 here, if I was working PR I wouldn't have ever let them leave in the first place. The Queen tried to make all three camps work their shit out but still they were fighting in the press like hyenas. Clarence House putting out stories and Kensington Palace split in two with the brothers battling it out. Was so damn messy and shows that Charles didn't have his shit together as their father and senior royal.

Rather than let the biracial royal and popular ginger leave, Charles should have just paid them off to take a 1 year break from duties to just relax and get into the groove of marriage and royalty. See America or Canada. Enjoy yourself, then come back in a year rather then this harsh break where everyone knew after a year they weren't going to be let back into the fold.

Charles should have never even let the Oprah interview happen to protect the firm. Call your son and broker a deal. Always a deal to be made. As the royal tours have shown, the Crown has an issue with black and brown people. They don't appear welcoming or caring. The Queen's played her cards like a champ opening her home to Harry and Meghan, but when she dies the good will dies with her.

This is why the royals are peppered with questions about slavery and reparations. They fucked up their image with the only person of color in their orbit. Their country is becoming browner by the year so they need to mind that problem because it's a new age and the MVP is due to croak any day or year now.

I suggest you get a life and quit obsessesing about these two.

They need to live within their means. Purchase a more affordable place or even return to Frogmore. Lay low. No appearances, no interviews, no press releases and no pap walks. Ditch Netflix, Spotify and any others. If they want to be seen, it should occur when they are taking their kids to school, church, or the park. Aim for stability. Seek psychiatric care for both of them. Follow those recommendations. Attempt to build back trust and family relations. It won’t happen.

It's ridiculous that Mediapolis won't limit the number of threads or alternate accounts these trolls have, but also won't give us enough FFs, ignore slots for posters, or fix the ignore thread function.

R28 Scroll on by.

I put the Meghan and Harry hating crazies in this thread on ignore, and discovered a few things. One, that only 7 people contributed over 100 replies to Meghan threads within the last day. They have typical dysfunctional forum behavior, like calling names and making threats over perceived slights and mild disagreements. They are pretending to be things like child psychologists and mental health specialists. Several are also posting slams on Biden in political threads, and they're often supporting anti-gay legislation and calling us homophobic names. Two like to use the word "groomer" a lot. These people are a scourge, and they're trolls who know they're trolls. They're not just little old ladies with a mild personality disorder.

I'm with you r29. When I go on DL I scroll by the topics that don't interest me. Nobody is forced to read any of the threads so why bitch about it?

The thread title reminds me of 'Regarding Henry', another man made into a bit of a simpleton

This is redeeming.

R32, I thought this was going to be about the Harrison Ford movie, too.

I don't know. Suicide?

The Yoko Ono, Jackie O, Lauren Bacall - buisness model could work.

Divorce this zebra looking bitch and marry a REAL black woman, white man! You won’t be able to walk once my coon cooter gets up on that ginger dick.

[quote]Nobody is forced to read any of the threads so why bitch about it?

I've seen trolls like you say this kind of thing before, but it's stupid. You're being homophobic on a gay board, and someone is going to say something to you about it, because it's hateful. The answer is not to tell the "creepy queens," as you put it, to stop reading your trolling, but for you to stop being a troll. Can you? I suspect it's your identity, at this point.

Give every last cent of his away.

r38 your Scooby Doo detective work sucks because I didn't post that other stuff

r31 and r32 and r40 are me. R38 you need to work on your sleuthing.

R30 They are paid to troll but there are also KGs mixed in as well with mental health issues. One of the biggest trolls is an Italian woman on the Autism spectrum. The next biggest is a right wing conspiracy theorist. The name of the company who hires the professional trolls is known within uk tabloid circles. It is a London based PR company. A hacking case involving a UK tabloid and a non uk resident that is two years down the track will eventually reveal details. It's a complicated case but should be out there by the end of the year.

R30 No “pretending.” You don’t move in professional circles. Sorry.

The problem with the Sussexes is that they take themselves too seriously and never laugh at themselves. They don't understand that being born royal or marrying royal is no guarantee of lifelong wealth, access, respect or approval - look at the yorks. Woke preaching is boring and dreary, and you absolutely have to walk the walk if you're going to lecture people. With their luxurious life and private jets, they have no credibility and people hate hypocrites.

They need to face that there is no going back to their royal status. The British public are in grief mode, because the QE2 era is drawing to a close and things will never be the same. It's easy for them to lash out at the Sussexes. They should focus on being fun and accessible, eg, the suggestion above of joining Top Chef or Dancing with the Stars. Nothing wrong with hawking a product on QVC.

They'll move back to the UK, where he is at least somewhat important.

She'll be unhappy.

After a few years, they'll divorce and she'll come back with half of whatever the old bird leaves him.

The end

W-when will the FBI be at my door though, R42???

Meghan needs to start with her own father who suffered a life-changing stroke that went apparently unnoticed by her. First things first. Bitch needs to start with her own family before she tries to change the Royal Family. She is taking her cues from Diana's playbook when she did that Panorama program with Martin Bashir, and we know how that went over with the public. No one wants to hear how tough it is to be rich and famous, and "unprotected." And don't allow anything about "not wanting to be alive" to escape your lips As others have said, if Camilla can be rehabbed so can Meghan. Definitely not gonna happen overnight because Harry knows the world sees his support of Meghan's me, me, me victimhood as tiresome and disruptive. Or does he.

I forgot to mention that, R47. Who would listen to someone who's abandoned their own elderly, frail parent preaching about kindness and compassion?

R44

[quote]You don’t move in professional circles.

I mean, you know no one believes you, except the weird lonely frauen on these threads, right? No legitimate mental health care specialist is online at 4AM, screaming that they're a professional and they know just by watching Twitter clips that Meghan is a narcissist abusive mother whose kids should be taken away.

[quote]Meghan needs to start with her own father who suffered a life-changing stroke that went apparently unnoticed by her.

Her father is an abusive grifter. After the Johnny Depp threads, it's pretty obvious that a lot of you don't know what abusers or grifters really look like, but he is absolutely an abuser and grifter. She tried to stay in distant contact with him, and it ended up in the courts, thanks to her dad, the tabloids, and some of the royal family's staff. He staged pap shots to make her look bad and did interviews trashing her, as did his daughter from another marriage.

None of you care about him, anyway, you just love that she's got some sick old dad that you can pretend is a sad, lonely victim of her psychopathy.

Stfu R[28].

Looks like a newbie at r51 got their widdle fee-fees hurt.

Absolutely dancing with stars. Hilaria could help. She was a dancer before marrying Fat Al see below. Oh wait, I just had a brain storm. She could help Meg do nursing videos, or they could do them as a duo. Always a crowd pleaser, like a good casserole at a PotLuck!

R50 - You are so correct. Tomas Markle is an abusive user and grifter. You are also correct that very on DL give two shits about Thomas Markle except for his tabloid entertainment value.

R11, option 1.

There is no redeeming "them"; Markle is a narcissist and she will never change, she only get worse. Harry can redeem himself by divorcing her, going on an apology tour, then setting himself up a nice private life maybe in Canada (funded my his father no doubt) doing his best to co-parent his kids.

Someone was actually saying "creepy queens" on DL? I put most of the more rancid cunt trolls on ignore a long time ago when I figured out that most were also right wing operatives but I do wonder if they realize where they are.

I think there might be something to the paid troll accusation.

A lobotomy would be good for starters.

I guess the question is, redeem him for who? The royal family has shown that they really don’t work to please the masses, only the crown. The queen was protecting Andrew because it pleases her, not the nation. Charles married Camilla because it pleases him, not the nation. Anne’s been married twice because it pleases her, not the nation. Edward gave up his love of dick and theater to neared with his boring wife, hmmm, that one might have been for the nation. But usually they aren’t out to please the people and know that they always have time on their side and a PR team at their beck and call.

I don’t know what redemption would be required. If the Queen, Charles, or Williams want them back, and they agree, then they will be back and the people will fall in line.

Was it David Linley who so publicly snubbed Harry and Meghan on the steps of St. Pauls? Isn't he supposed to be one of the Queen's favorites? Bet it wasn't appreciated by Her Majesty.

It was both David Lynley and the Tindalls - the latter refused to walk down the steps leaving St Paul's to give the Sussexes "cover" for the booing that ensued - and to give the Harkles their last chance at a photo op with well-known inner-circle royals.

And I doubt HM did anything but grin. They all knew what the memo said: stop the Sussexes from gaining marketable advantage from the Jubilee.

As for "rehabilitating" the Sussex brand: shut up, stop whingeing, concentrate on quietly living the Good Life that neither of them have really earned but came into via who he was born and who she married. Stop the Archewell bullshit, it's a small-town op.

In other words: start acting like they're in touch with reality. Their own, for starters.

I don’t know about redemption, but there is no going back for Harry as a working Royal. They literally had guards separating them from getting near his father and brother. Once he revealed private conversations on national tv, it was a wrap. If he divorces, they might take him back as a family member, but will never trust him not to blab. He won’t want to live in another country from his children either, so it will never be close like it once was. I think BRF has moved on and adjusted to life without him as a working Royal.

I think he should’ve made faster and better content for Netflix, not focused on him and Meghan. More like be a creator/producer/narrator basically be a filmmaker of the content. Find good stories, interesting people to follow and develop a narrative. Producing is good money and prestigious, but they like to be the focus of attention. Their current projects have and will fail, they lost momentum and blew their chance. Now they should just fade away, live their life and raise their children in privacy. If he writes a scathing book, I don’t think his family will ever talk to him again in any capacity.

Was this before or after the crowd booed the Sussexes?

Loved how none of the Royals would lend their credibility to the Harkles as Harry & Meghan descended the steps of St. Paul's after the service of Thanksgiving for The Queen. Meghan was giving camera-ready face despite the booing, like she knew Netflix was filming and would be using the footage for the 'docu-clown-show'. Of course with a soundtrack overlay of the masses chanting her name no doubt.

He doesn't have to redeem himself.

"I think he should’ve made faster and better content for Netflix, not focused on him and Meghan. More like be a creator/producer/narrator basically be a filmmaker of the content. Find good stories, interesting people to follow and develop a narrative."

But Harry isn't interested in any story but his own!

I think they should become monks and take a vow of silence.

Let him go On Assistance for a while.

[quote]He doesn't have to redeem himself.

You're right. The world has a lot of compassion for Harry because of the shock of Diana's death. Meghan saw this wound in Harry, and also the guilt (he said in an interview that his last phone call with his mother ended quickly because he wanted to go back outside and continue a game) and Meghan knew she could turn his hurt into self-righteous anger. Harry almost seems like an innocent bystander.

R70 Harry has been angry since childhood. He is not an innocent bystander. He and Meghan used each other because their agendas dovetailed.

There are no innocent bystanders in relationships like this.

R60. Wow. The criticism of the Queen protecting Andrew is correct, but you really think the royal family should sacrifice the entirety of their private lives for the nation? It’s not 1936.

R60, has Harry pleased the nation, don you think?

R70, Harry is no innocent bystander, he wanted out of the BRF before he met Meg, I swear she got him by promising to help him escape and support him in the style to which he was accustomed... through social media and celebrity merching. He must be feeling pretty betrayed that she hasn't come up with the promised millions, not that he'll ever turn a hand of real work in his life.

But I don't think there's any way back to the Royal Family for him. He isn't trusted now, and he will never be trusted unless he goes through a long probationary period of working for his dad without being allowed into the inner circles or given the best perks... and he doesn't have the patience for that. If they try to make him prove his loyalty, he'll get angry and strike back, and be out on his ass again. No, he was always meant to be a modern day Remittance Man, and that's what he'll be.

R74, well, it appears you are correct, judging from the global reaction to them as well as the audience at St. Paul's, every one of which cut him dead in a stunning display. I am not up on his misdeeds of talking out of school about the BRF except for the disastrous Oprah interview where Meghan ran the show and I believe she has exploited Harry's past emotional trauma by turning his pain into anger about the treatment she feels she has suffered at the hands of the "firm." So while I can see he is not an "innocent bystander" and I understand their leaving only increased the duties William and Kate had to take over, I just see Meghan as more the villain of the piece and I wish they'd never married. I really hope some form of redemption comes for him (not Meghan) at some point in the future. Look at Camilla.

Does anyone have any info on Harry being in rehab? I don't see things working out for the Sussexes, either in or out of the BRF. Last year, some exec in Hollywood said they were 'toxic'. The US deals have fizzled out. No one is buying their philanthropic efforts. The British public will not accept them back, no matter how well behaved they are. They can't do right for doing wrong at this point.

i do not think Harry's book will be published, he will use it as a hanging sword to get continued funding from the BRF.

"I just see Meghan as more the villain of the piece and I wish they'd never married"

I don't see a villain in this piece, R75, just two people whose needs happen to match each other's, and who bring out the absolute worst in each other. Seriously, I don't think either is likable or admirable but neither is evil, they're just two ordinary humans who encourage each other to be angry, self-pitying, dishonest, greedy, unrealistic, and entitled.

Ginger doesn't want to be "redeemed", and certainly not "rehabilitated". He wants to be exonorated by the three perceived causes of his life-long misfortune. His father, his brother and his grandmother. Ginger wants to inflict upon them as much pain and suffering that he believes they have inflicted on him. Megs is his perfect partner in vengeance; another emotional defective who feels owed and vengeful toward everyone around her. It's why Ginger married her so quickly. And both of them have since been pursuing Ginger's plan with varying degrees of success.

Ginger knows that whatever he does, however appalling his behavior toward his family, he will be welcomed back into the fold. Isolated, ostracized, ignored perhaps, but then Ginger's not interested in socializing with people who have done him so wrong. What he wants is their obeisance, their contrition that yes, Ginger has hurt, demeaned and shit all over us. But our power to forgive him is far greater than his power to destroy us. And THAT is what will befuddle, perplex and eventually destroy Ginger.

She could go and act in a series and bring home money. She was okay in Suits.

[quote]But I don't think there's any way back to the Royal Family for him. He isn't trusted now, and he will never be trusted.

Eh, lots of people have been forgiven far worse. If Harry divorces Megs, turns on her and convinces everyone he was under her evil spell, he will be welcomed back into the fold with open arms. Everyone already hates her and thinks he's pussy whipped, so it will be easy to blame her. No one can argue that Harry 'was' universally beloved at one time. He could regain his former glory if he just ditched his narcissistic, BPD, gold digging, grifter wife.

People LOVE to hate on poisonous women. Look at Johnny Depp. Who would have thought the tide could turn so radically and quickly for him?

If Sophie could come back from what she did, anyone can. They just have to want to and be willing to humble themselves before the Family for a very long period of abasement. Harry and Meghan have both selfish/deluded and valid reasons for not being willing to do this. I think they would be on a much better footing if Harry hadn’t convinced himself that he matters just as much as his brother in the context of the family pecking order, and Meghan hadn’t enabled that. (Of course, he matters just as much in the sense of being a human being.)

There is no redeeming such a mess.

Sophie was catty. They alleged racism in the most damaging way possible. So long as it's they and not him I don't see how there is a way back and I am not even sure he can get back. They seem to be sliding toward irrelevance now. That's worse than being the villain of the piece.

Is there any other conclusion possible after this past weekend that William will not forgive or trust and that the system, if has to pick a side, will pick his?

William is an alpha stud. He totally hit it out of the park with that speech at the Platinum concert. Harry is a mess, perhaps redeemable, but probably not with the wife at his side.

:If Sophie could come back from what she did, anyone can. They just have to want to and be willing to humble themselves before the Family for a very long period of abasement.:"

Like I said, IMHO Harry is too angry, impatient, and self-pitying to go through the probationary period he'd need to be allowed back into the royal family. And he'll never display the contrition they expect, because as someone else said, he thinks the royal family and especially Charles need to apologize to HIM, he doesn't need to apologize to them! Yes, he really thinks Charles ruined his life, and needs to make it up to him.

why should he? MYOB.

Sentence them to five years of poverty. They must be humbled.

Harry must be livid pissed right now, and ready to write a scathing new chapter for his book. Don’t do it, H! Time to put out charm now, nothing but charm.

R84 Williams speech was basic. His speaking skills still need work after all these years. He was fidgety and just not really comfortable on that stage. The words were all written because the palace hires professional people.

And every one of those foibles made that speech enjoyable and relatable. Sure it got clumsy here and there, but I think he made most of the UK proud of him, and that was exactly what was called for at this particular Royal spectacle weekend.

r49 not everyone is on Eastern Time

r85 what did Sophie do that she had to come back from? Thanks

He could do a reboot of LA Law

Prince Harry, not Harry Hamlin, Rose!

R92, I’m not R85, but I’ll give it a shot. For a while Sophie ran a PR firm. A tabloid hired someone to impersonate a potential client and meet with her. Sophie was caught on tape trash talking various politicians and royals. Sophie got past it because she apologized to everyone, in some cases in writing, and quit the business.

Thanks r94

[quote] If Sophie could come back from what she did, anyone can.

Sophie was indiscreet and foolish. Meghan was calculating and intentionally malevolent. There can be no redemption for Harry's wife.

Sophie wasn’t just indiscreet, she and her business partner (who hinted that Edward is gay) were trying to get her endorsement deals and clients based on her connection to the royal family. It was truly embarrassing stuff. But she made her way back from that into the Queen’s good graces over the past 20 years.

"Sophie was indiscreet and foolish. Meghan was calculating and intentionally malevolent."

I still think it was Harry who wanted out of the BRF, at all costs. Meg might have been willing to give it a go, at least as long as she could milk the gig for publicity and unearned luxuries, but Harry was the one who was sick of it all and who hated the other royals. Of course since then she's done too much damage to ever be forgiven, I mean you just don't get away with telling every thief in the world where the Queen keeps her fortune in jewels, but I really think she's being blamed for Harry's crap because people would rather blame her than him.

That idiot Harry doesn't get nearly enough abuse, I mean, he's such a great target! Stupid, spoiled, whiny, prince of the blood...

What exactly is Harry's reason for hating his family so deeply?

They're both equally despicable. You have Meghan lying on worldwide TV about being suicidal, claiming the BRF denied her medical care, took her passport to keep her prisoner, and denied her son a title and security because he's part black - all the while Harry sat by and said nothing.

"What exactly is Harry's reason for hating his family so deeply?"

His mother died when he was too little to deal with it, and they didn't make it all better.

Seriously.

r97 Sophie at least didn't say anything too bad about the royal family. But funny her partner hinted about Edward being gay.

R98 I agree Harry is not dragged nearly enough. We're working on it.

Kate seemed to really treat Harry as a brother. It has to be hard for her to see how he and Meghan treat her now.

Sooooo…..are we moving toward a Meghan redemption arc, with Harry as the villain?

Meghan is probably a completely fine individual outside of all this but the problem is, she felt massively threatened by Kate and jealousy is a hell of a beast. It makes you do crazy, stupid, self-destructive, angry things. It makes you paranoid and obsessed and thin-skinned. It's one of the ugliest and most toxic emotions out there, especially because and it's really hard to admit that you're jealous so instead you believe the person is really jealous of you, that they are trying to destroy you on purpose, that they're manipulating everything and everyone against you. It's easier than admitting you feel less than.

"Sooooo…..are we moving toward a Meghan redemption arc, with Harry as the villain?"

There's no villain here, R104. Just two idiots staging a trainwreck.

I just get mildly annoyed that Meg gets all the blame for Harry's idiocy, when he's the bigger idiot and IMHO calls a lot more of the shots than some people realize. But some people really like to believe that the woman is the villain, and others don't understand that a Prince of the Blood delegates things like dealing with the public. He states what he wants, and it's everyone else's job to make it happen, and if he states he wants to leave the royal family and still live like a prince, then by God and Harry it'd better happen!

R99- Harry wants what Will has. He wants to be King with all of the perks and privilege, power that being entails. He so badly wants to be a tyrannical king and have the power to abuse people beneath him in status. He wants for once in his life to have more power and respect than William. She wants to be Catherine, he wants to be William. H&M have a seething jealousy of W&C. If they can't have what W&C have, they hope to end the monocracy and ruin things for them.

R105 Meghan was a vile individual long before she met Harry. She has been jealous of others her entire life.

He got a lot of his negative traits from his crazy and obsessive mother who loved being a drama queen, loved being the center of attention. Maybe Diana would have changed for the better if she had lived, and maybe only she could have helped him now. I do think she would have kicked Megs to the curb and talked Harry out of marrying her.

I also agree with R107 — Harry was jealous as fuck being the second son—just like Margaret resented her sister the queen being the eldest.

R109- Diana clearly favored William, he was her golden child. Harry just seemed to irritate and frustrate her. He appeared to be a hyper child with behavioral problems. She was always trying to discipline him when they were in public. William, after he grew out of the terrible two's, three's, four's, was calm and obedient, in public at least. Not Harry. Diana appeared to be exhausted by his behavior and at times unable to handle him in public. She smacked his ass a couple of times too, lol. Not abusively, just a smack on the butt with an open hand. Harry was a little asshole even then. Prince Charles appeared to be able to handle Harry much better than she could. Just my observations of them over the years.

I warned Lilibet that Diana would fuck Harry up. But, no one ever listened to me. I was just a dotty old Queen Dowager

R107 I’ve never seen a single thing from Harry that makes me believe he wants to be king. He and other young royals even said that no one really wants that job. Harry just wanted to be like his rich friends. Money and freedom. William’s work ethic, or lack there off, tells me he would have like that as well.

But I have never seen Harry act like he wanted to be king. If he did, I doubt he would have given up being a working royal.

It must really do a number on a kid's head when the whole world talks about how your brother is going to be king. KING!

From Gone with the Wind:

Rhett: "Scarlett, when you are forty-five, perhaps you will know what I'm talking about and then perhaps you, too, will be tired of imitation gentry and shoddy manners and cheap emotions. But I doubt it. I think you'll always be more attracted by glister than by gold."

Apply that to what you know about the two Duchesses.

If he sold the mansion and bought a 4-BR normal house somewhere. If he took commercial flights. If he picked a job and worked at it. If he told his cunt wife to stop pawing and clutching him in public. If he took his kid on bike rides or to the beach or a ball game.

Harry is a fucking moron. Plenty of spare royals work in various sectors, like finance. The Dutch king’s brother is one example:

[QUOTE] Prince Constantijn studied law at Leiden University, becoming a lawyer, and then worked at the Brussels department of the (Dutch) European Union commissioner of foreign relations, Hans van den Broek. Later, he was hired by the EU and continued to work there in various capacities until the end of 1999. In December 2000, he was awarded a Master of Business Administration at INSEAD in Fontainebleau, France. He then spent a summer working for the International Finance Corporation of the World Bank group in Washington, DC. He worked until late 2002 for strategic consultants Booz Allen Hamilton in London. Since 2003, he works for the RAND Corporation Europe in Brussels. Furthermore, he has a part-time position at the Netherlands Ministry of Foreign Affairs in The Hague.

The Dutch king flies for KLM.

Luxembourg’s spare managed a winery and now works in PR.

Duke of Gloucester is an architect.

Possibilities are endless but he has his head too far up his ass. And that parvenu he married is only fanning the flames of jealousy and anger.

He could have made an entire royal career out of just Invictus and veterans. Throw in a little African conservation and you're the much loved figure.

Still doable, R117. He'd have to double down, ditch the negativity, and work with passion.

I wonder if he'd also have to get a divorce? Are those two a good match?

"He could have made an entire royal career out of just Invictus and veterans."

If he'd tried to make a career out of Invictus, he might actually have gotten the half-in-half-out deal he wanted! He could have spent most of his life partying and occasionally showing up at the Invictus head office, he could have done part-time royal duties. held on to his place in the royal family, and had free access to the Bank of Charles. Same for any other work that provided good PR for the royal family, such as the game preserve in Botswana he'd talked about.

Of course there would be no half-in-half-out deal for a life of partying and shamelessly capitalizing on his royal status. He was a fool to even make the attempt, but well. We know he's a fool.

Having a real vocation would be “modern”. Didn’t they want to modernize the monarchy?

The royal family is only open to members having a vocation and doing real work, if their vocation is for something acceptable by their priggish standards. They were fine with Anne getting on the Olympic team, which took real hard work, but not fine with Edward being an actor, and they were sort of in-and-out on his documentary film work (didn't they limit what he could work on?). They turned out to be the sanest and most reliable spares, IMHO precisely because they had interests outside of real work, so there's no reason that they wouldn't let Harry do something serious if he was capable of doing anything serious, even letting him be half in and half out.

But have any of the younger generation of royals ever gotten serious about a career or an interest?

[quote] If he sold the mansion and bought a 4-BR normal house somewhere

A four bedroom house is not normal.

And this is where his choice of spouse proved destructive.

Another woman could have soothed his anger and redirected him to something productive. Someone like a Melinda Gates, who could tease out his talents and manage his ego.

Instead he married a woman who stokes his resentment and feeds his grudges. The only time he looks happy is when he’s on the polo field.

One’s choice of partner is a make or break deal.

The Sussexes don't have to go live in a "normal 4BR house". With Harry's inheritance and whatever they've been able to scrounge, they could afford a decent beach house somewhere away from a big city, and live extremely comfortably and live up to their claim of wanting privacy. Hah!

And yes, I guarantee that if Harry's stupid book is ever published, Andrew will be trashed. Partly to make themselves look virtuous and politically correct, partly to make an indirect criticism of Charles and HM herself for keeping him out of jail, partly because they're leading the same sort of useless money-grubbing life as he has and they really need to head off any comparisons. And that will cost them their last royal ally, Eugenie.

I think his inheritance is mostly gone by now the way they've spent.

Yeah, didn't he get only $10M from Diana? Small change for their lifestyle.

The papers say they flew over on a Bombardier Global 6000... Google says that's $8600 an hour. Flight time California to UK is 11.5 hours in the air. So that's 23 hours x $8600 = $197,800 before fees and taxes. You gotta pay to land. You gotta pay to park (for lack of a better word.) Did they hold the same plane for the duration of their stay? That has costs.

No way the Queen paid ~100,000L to fly those lot over to watch the Trooping and go to church for an hour. The Queen's flown scheduled commercial to get to royal tours.

R127 - She left them each about $10 million USD and by the time the boys were legally able to access the full trust, each one was worth about $40 million USD.

So it was quite substantial. Harry has likely gone through a good bit of it, but I doubt it's entirely gone.

Plus whatever he may have received from certain others who shall not be named due to the Beetlejuice convention, as part of the established estate tax dodge of giving money seven years prior to death. And then whatever his father did to send him on his way. And then Netflix and Spotify and his book advance, though it's unlikely those amounts are all up front.

That house must cost a bomb to staff and run. Those kids need to be educated and helped along in life, as any parent would. And what are their long term income prospects?

So he's probably got a decent nest egg but it won't sustain private jets forever.

Honestly, with those two as parents, do you really believe they'll give a fuck about the kids' education?

I don't expect them to give a fuck whether the kids actually learn anything, but Meg at least is very aware that getting your kids into the right schools is a status symbol and a way to one-up rival mothers.

So I expect those kids to be sent to very expensive private schools, the more expensive the better, because that's yet another reason to demand money from Charles. It's a win-win from Meg's POV!

Take a break for a few years and, y'know- just go away.

R132 is right. We can predict with 99% certainty what school the kids will go to right now if anyone here knows what the most prestigious and difficult-to-get-into school is within that general area.

Meghan would do well shilling her own line of home goods, skincare/cosmetics or exercise equipment on QVC or HSN. It would make her feel important and in charge. She could be the new Suzanne Somers.

Halfwit Harry needs something easy and that also makes him feel important. Make him center square on a re-boot of the Hollywood Squares or perhaps a Judge on The Masked Singer.

Center square. Perfect!

They’re both CHIMPOS at Ethic (the “ethical” hedge fund scheme. Supposedly they’re also investors. I call shenanigans there.

I hope they don't go away! I'm enjoying their never-ending train wreck of a life. It is a entertaining and a much needed distraction from all real shit that's going on. I love how they completely fail at everything. their breath taking self-delusions and lack of awareness, their hysterical hypocrisy and the karma that keeps coming their way because they are nasty, despicable human beings, but they are too blind to see it.

Carry on you two fools!!!

Did anyone else get banned yesterday?

R105 “Meghan is probably a completely fine individual outside of all this…”

No, she isn’t. Who uses dead kids for PR?

“Two days after a May 24 elementary school shooting left nineteen children and two teachers dead and another seventeen injured, the wife of Britain’s Prince Harry made an unannounced visit with her camera crew to the Texas town of Uvalde.

Vanity Fair said, “She was spotted placing a bouquet of white flowers near a makeshift memorial,” not bothering to rewrite the press copy. Was spotted? In real time during the outing, aggressive publicists at Archewell were shopping and circulating copy and photos to media, getting instant pickup by Yahoo News, People, Elle, and other outlets worldwide.

Uninvited, Meghan Markle had hopped on a private plane in Santa Barbara “as a mother.” Flying with staff, bodyguard and camera crew to a private airfield near Uvalde, she was whisked into a black van, amply photographed, and home before dark, job done, it’s a wrap. Was this some strange, sick, unspeakable parody of a royal visit? What the hell was it?

While any right-minded human being would steer away from such a ghastly charade, Meghan did not. Is she insane? Not exactly, although many of her least attractive qualities are tucked into the DSM-5.”

They get divorced. Harry goes back to the UK where he gives earnest (for the first time in recent years) speeches to raise awareness about Stockholm Syndrome. He is welcomed back to the fold of the Firm, is given a uniform, and goes around doing military-ish and Invictus-y things. Meghan's private plane, en route to Dubai for a shopping trip, plunges into the ocean. She survives and winds up on a remote island, where she reexamines her life and winds up taking care of sick and needy. We don't know about this until 20 years from now when she is spotted by a passing yacht and outed. Arch and Lil, who have been raised by nannies in Montecito anyway, are no worse for the wear, having no clue who those two people were anyway.

He cannot be redeemed, he is just a shitty person. His marriage made more people aware of the fact, but it's who he always was.

They are terrible people.

Harry is just a run-of-the-mill douchebro. New York is full of them, and they’re not especially dangerous (unless they buy you an expensive dinner and you don’t want to put out).

Meghan is a sneaky virago.

Why is Archewell, a supposed nonprofit, putting out PR for Meghan when her visit to Uvalde was in her capacity "as a mother" and not representing Archewell. Did she bill Archewell for the private plane?

Either all expenses are tax defuctible, or Netflix paid.

[quote] Meghan's private plane, en route to Dubai for a shopping trip, plunges into the ocean. She survives and winds up on a remote island, where she reexamines her life and winds up taking care of sick and needy.

So, if she has crashed on this remote island, isn't she one of the sick and needy? Rather than taking care of them, they would be taking care of her. After all, she would remind them that they have to ask if she is OK.

[quote]you just don't get away with telling every thief in the world where the Queen keeps her fortune in jewels

Wha'? Where did she say that was, R98?

I don't think any amount of "rehabilitation" such as working for 10 years for Charles without complaint is going to redeem Harry. They know they can't trust him, whether his incessant whining and blabbermouthing was purely on his own initiative or through Meghan's encouragement. They probably knew it already, long before the Harkles even met, but like everything private to the Royal Family, it was kept under wraps. I've always understood the one thing the RF can't fully forgive (besides abdication) is public gossiping about the family.

Put them both on a slow boat to china, make them live there 20 years with no money except for what they earn. They would kill each other.

No, R147. Sure the simple folk on the remote island would patch up Meghan's wounds, feed her, provide her shelter, nurse her back to health, share their limited food with her, station an attendant to ask her if she's OK every 5 minutes so as not to cause further screaming fits etc. All of that, of course.

But she would provide them, in return, with her presence. Her grace, kindness and humility would be a beacon and an example to the poor islanders, who would surely spend hours every day weeping with gratitude that she chose to bless them with her beautiful, sweet smile. Do you see how they would be the beneficiaries in that situation, and not Meghan? Do you see how she would in fact be doing them a favour by eating their food, using up their medical resources, occupying their men with her mesmerizing allure and their women with her aspirational femininity? Do you see??

And if the selfish, jealous islanders did not appreciate her, then Meghan could just do an Oprah interview upon her return to civilization, to tell us how awful it was being supported by them for so long.

But would they ask if she's OK?

So anyway, this thread is getting weird.

Couldn't she just order sandwiches for the island?

Carbs, bitch. What kind of monster are you?

R142 Thanks for digging that up. He’s been a colossal asshole his entire life.

I read the article at R142 and don't find it terribly offensive. A lot of people have done worse in their teens.

Island people don't play. They'll shrink a bitch!

He’d have to ditch the Mrs. and keep out of sight.

I agree, R157. Seems pretty run-of-the-mill acting up.

And when did Meghan reveal where the Queen keeps her personal jewelry collection?

"And when did Meghan reveal where the Queen keeps her personal jewelry collection?"

R160, that was in the book written by their lapdog, the book they claimed to be totally not involved with. But the book contained a detailed description of visiting the queen's jewelry vault, and described its location and security measures, and the queen must have been PISSED! She'd have had to move her jewel collection to a new location, and put in new security after that, which must have cost a fortune.

Only one person connected to the writing of the book could have possibly told the writer those details, and of course she claimed that she had never even been interviewed...

Oh sure, Harry is just a run of the mill fuckup, if you exclude the time he ran through his father's 50th birthday party sans clothing. I was going to include the violent raping in Arizona that got mostly covered up, but he was out of his terrible teens, so it's even worse. Good luck to you Harry. you arrogant bellend.

I kinda wonder if the vault was fiction. It would seem more likely the choices would be brought to her and presented.

You would think, wouldn't you r163? Why would they bring her there, it seems weird to me too.

Total fiction, R163. The idea is preposterous.

What went on in Arizona, R162?

Harry knows.

Rumours are suddenly rife that after the Jubly, Harry realised that his father and brother will never let him back in, short of a public apology and a divorce from Meghan, Harry is considering "giving up" his title(s). I can't imagine Meghan going along with that, but perhaps after being booed not once but twice at St Paul's, even she is realising that too many bridges were burnt, and in the burning, the titles were also singed beyond use.

The problem is, their kids will be HRHs the moment the Queen dies, so it would be somewhat absurd to be without titles themselves.

I suspect that if there is any truth to the rumour, it is only the Sussex title that Harry would consider surrendering. He can't really ditch the HRH Prince Harry bit unless he really pulls out entirely and asks the Queen to issue Letters Patent removing, or putting into abeyance, both his style and title of HRH AND the Sussex ducal title.

No freaking way will Markle let go of that title, nor will she want to be called "Princess Henry."

If he tries ditching those titles, he'll have another 'fall' off a Polo Pony. That will explain his lobotomized demeanor, as she openly steers the Ship of Sussex.

The polo is really good for them. Gives Harry something to do: vigorous outdoor exercise, male camaraderie, a connection with his old life. Meghan gets to be seen, and appear quasi-royal.

Those PM's ensuring no titles for the Sussex kids are already signed and ready to go.

R171 I'll bet against that and raise you a tenner.

If the Queen were going to do that, she'd have done it by now, as any day could be her last.

It will be up to Charles, and he's not going to start his reign with a race furor by depriving his only mixed race grandchildren of their right to HRHs. No one will believe it's to "slim down the monarchy".

Even if, if their photos are anything to go by, no one would ever know those kids mixed race, because they are almost completely, and look, white.

The Palace will follow the model it set re Harry's title: instead of taking styles and titles away outright, reduce them to irrelevance.

The greatest irony in the Sussex's staggeringly badly reasoned flight, is that whilst clinging desperately to their royal status, they removed their kids from the only environment in which those HRHs would have meant something.

In American schools, Prince Archie and Princess Lilibet will be the butt of jokes.

So, no. Those LPs will never be signed. The BRF would lose too much of the traction it's gained simply by grey-rocking the Harkles.

What's a PM?

Say what you like about Meghan and her motivations, but Harry has gotten one thing right at least: he told us that he grew up in a golden cage in an institution which is rotten to its core, and in a family which spends its life playing a role. If he does nothing else right in his life, he has done some good by telling the truth at least once.

R174 Yeah but European, whatever one replaces it with would doubtless be worse and certainly much more dreary and boring. Are we not entertained?

Honestly? No. So much of the royal stuff is just so TWEE. Look at those awful hats and coats they all wear to every garden party. Look at the cringey events they put on. Look at the commonplace things they always say, which the BBC then cracks up to the skies.

R176 Oh well, I enjoy it. A little fairy dust, why not.

Maybe a lot of Americans see it as a kind of charming historical theme park, but it's a genuine national delusion for the English. They truly think these people are special, different, smarter, better.

LOL there is no way that Meghan won't be sending out invitations to birthday parties and such for HRH Prince Archie. Those titles will absolutely be used.

R178 My mother, who was Scottish and a commie, loved the royals. She used to say “they’re like family.” Go figure.

R174 I understand what you're saying but I think that Harry has actually made the Royal Family look good (in comparison). He comes across as a whinger and a hypocrite, entitled and spoiled and rude and stupid, while taking full advantage of his privilege (and expecting far more) while providing nothing to the world but an insipid website that virtue-signals their (nonexistent) acts of grace with preposterous, hollow, preachy market-speak as they do nothing whatsoever but promote themselves.. As absurd as the institution might be, he's a lot more absurd, un-self-aware, and uncharismatic.

R180 Would she have been alive during the war? There's definitely a major generation gap in Scotland in attitudes to the monarchy, and indeed to other British institutions and the concept of Britishness itself. This doesn't apply in England.

R181 I do agree Harry and Meghan deserve a lot of criticism for their merching and their virtue signalling and their self-promotion. That said, I do think Harry has improved, at least a bit, from the time he was dressing up in Nazi uniforms for fancy dress. Probably his stint in the army, which will have involved meeting a lot of ordinary people not from privileged backgrounds, did him good. He does have at least a dim understanding of real social problems now, if not any effective solutions. For example, I was impressed by how he and Meghan were willing to openly criticise the Commonwealth - definitely a BIG thing for members of the royal family to do.

R182 Oh yes, she was a war bride. And generations do swing.

R174. Harry’s life achievement is to inform the world that being a British royal involves playing a role and living in a gilded cage—-things that everyone has known for decades, if not centuries, and could be surmised by almost any adult of reasonable intelligence? If so, that confirms just how useless and misspent his life has been.

As for corruption to the core, Harry has not even alleged such a thing. His complaints about the family relate to not being financed by his father after he decided to stop working in middle age; hearing an ambiguous comment about the color of his child, the details of which he and his wife could not agree on; receiving insufficient titles and honors; and frustration at his family’s unwillingness to stifle freedom of the press. What allegations of corruption has even made (worth or without substantiation)?

Whom have you met or heard of, other than Harry snd Meghan, who consider British royalty innately superior? They seem to be two of the very, very few who would hold such an opinion. Who else shares this “national delusion”? Most British people seem to see the royals as ordinary, flawed human beings, who, by pure chance, are entrusted with upholding a historical tradition.

What criticism of the commonwealth did they make that impressed you? And why would any comment they make about anything impress you? Part of being royal is recognising that you should keep your opinions to yourself (ie recognising the fact that the fact that you are born to a particular person or married to a particular person doesn’t make your opinion more important than the opinion of anyone else). The UK is a modern democracy. The country in general supports the monarchy because the Queen has reigned as a 20th/21st century monarch. The country doesn’t want to follow Harry and Meghan’s vision of a 16th century society in which a small number of people are listened to because of their birth and receive publicly funded privileges with no public service in return.

I'm just glad that Harry shed his Nazi armband. Such growth.

R184, have you ever lived in the UK? Listen to the BBC commentary on a big royal occasion sometime, or go meet some of the fans who gather in London at these moments. Neverending paens to duty, service, wisdom, leadership, charm, wit, intelligence, faith. Propaganda that would make Putin blush.

R185: they stated that the Commonwealth is a hangover from the days of imperialism, and that imperialism is inextricably linked to racism. There is a huge debate going on in the UK right now about the legacy of the British Empire, so these comments, coming from them, were very important. They might appear self-evidently true to you and I, but they certainly do not to many others, particularly in England.

R187. Yes, the Queen receives a lot of praise for service, which most people would agree is deserved, and which is not at all linked to her ancestry. The other virtues you claim are attributed to them are not ones I have heard, and I have lived in Britain recently.. Are you listening to telecasts from the 1950s?

I would propose you start speaking to a random sample of 20 or so Britons about the superior intellect, etc of Prince Charles, Prince Edward, etc. and report their reactions to us. That will begin to give us a picture of this “national delusion”.

R185. In what way is the Commonwealth (a voluntary j organisation) a racist institution? Did they explain that? Do you think he has any understanding of that?

The bigger question is why you would welcome hearing the opinion of anyone just because he or she is a descendant of a 17th century Electress of Hannover? Why do you value his opinion? Do you think the average Britain is glad that a royal is blessing the world with his deep thoughts? Do you have an inkling why they might be pissed off if the family of a supposedly impartial head of state starts using the position provides in order to express his personal views?

Well, R190, it was intended as a replacement for the empire, and that was a racist institution. Also, see the linked piece below.

I welcome hearing this opinion from Harry and Meghan, because they are members of the royal family, which is intricately associated with the Commonwealth, so their words will carry much greater weight.

R191. So you are happy to hear his opinion because you happen to agree with it? Can you understand why UK citizens would be disenchanted if royals started lecturing them about abortion (and Meghan did comment on that), the deficit, and parental leave (again Meghan). You may want to live in the 17th century but most UK citizens don’t.

It would always be inappropriate in my view for Harry to use his inherited positon to influence public opinion. It’s presumptuous and unfair. However, if he were calling for an end to the monarchy, he would at least have a democratic leg to stand on. But, as we all know, he is far from calling for the abolition of the monarchy. He is deeply upset about the modern limitations on royal prerogatives and privileges and he is desperate for the monarchy to continue in a more antiquated form.

The article is more trite drivel from the Guardian. Everyone knows the racism associated with the British Empire. This columnist doesn’t say anything new or interesting about it.

R192 We are perhaps talking at cross-purposes: I want to see the end of the monarchy. Monarchy is an absurd system.

In the meantime, however, I am pleased that Harry and Meghan said what they did. Though you might think that 'everyone' agrees with what the article had to say about the British Empire, that is certainly not the line of the government, the monarchy or the rest of the establishment.

Hook your earnest little wagon to the lying grifting Markles stars then.

Britain without the monarchy is just another dreary socialist scene.

Even other countries don't want the monarchy to end.

Pakistan and Britain going through a rocky patch?

Do you think the Pakistani government wants some dreary elected Head of State in a three-piece suit coming over to ravel up the sleeve of patchy relations?

No! They send handsome William and lovely Kate! The first royal visit in twelve years!

Kate brings over her lovely clothes, visits schools and hospitals, smile dutifully for a week, William talks with businessmen, the press are all over it, the Pakistani government is thrilled, the crowds of people who want to see them are thrilled . . .

You think on those state visits Queen Maxima and King Willem, or those Gulf State Emirs, want photos of themselves on the steps with that dreary Head of State in a three-piece suit?

They're all thrilled to dress up in full mufti and get photographed with HM and all those family orders and sashes and tiaras.

It's what sells.

Why waste the taxpayers' money on YET ANOTHER election process, this one devoid of any meaning whatsoever.

At least when you look at the current Head of State, you're also looking at history.

Please. Get real. The government knows exactly how valuable the monarchy to its aims in geopolitical efforts.

The royals go where the FO sends them. They are very, very useful.

That trip to Pakistan went flawlessly, and the Pakistani government was very happy.

Get real.

'handsome William and lovely Kate'

See, R189, what did I tell you? A mass delusion.

Reading the Grauniad on line doesn't make you any type of an expert on ordinary people in the UK you arse wipe.

R192. You are at cross purposes with yourself. If you want the monarchy to end, why do you express anything but contempt for two of the most lunatic fringe royalists in existence (Harry and Meghan)?

Your view that the monarchy is absurd may be in part that you have no real idea of what it is, what it does, and how people view it.

R199 I'm sure I'd love to hear what you think about what it is, what it does and how people view it.

Not to mention the fact that Meghan married Harry to get entry to royal status, and that Harry is suing the Home Office to revise his status to foist extravabt costs for 24-7 armed security onto the backs of the UK taxpayer, based on . .

"His immediacy in the Libe of Succession" . . .

A statement so far ical in its empty grandeur as to make his grandmorher seem humble by comparison.

Say, ConcernedEiropean, do you remember the spine of that dreadful book Neghan wrote?

It says MEGHAN THE OF DUCHESS OF SUSSEX in huge print. Thete isn't even room for the title.

Harry and Meghan are obsessed with their status.

If you want some credibility for your views, quoting Harry isn't the way to go.

Because his real problem is, be wants to be William, and hets is, she wants to be Kate

They only diss the monarchy by because they don't think it gave them quite enough.

R200. It’s largely a glorified civil service positon. They are not viewed as superior beings. They probably have never in the existence of the institution been viewed as being of superior intelligence. They have had very little political power since the beginning of the 18th century (ie much of the period of empire).

^* Line (not Libe) of succession.

Farcical

Meghan not Neghan

Bitch and moan all you want about the BRF if that's what gets you through your day, but they aren't going anywhere, there's no 'downfall' on the horizon, they are not going to cease to exist. Their popularity will ebb and flow as it always has, certain members will enjoy the blessing of the British public, and certain members will always travel with a dark cloud over their heads necessitating dialing-back the public appearances. But the BRF won't be going anywhere any time in the future. Its laughable to even entertain the ideas shouted by the contrarians - but if griping and insolence is what gets your through your day, well 'you do you' and enjoy the emotional burden that comes with your self-inflicted negativity.

Jeez. See how easily butthurt the monarchists get.

I don't interpret R204 as "butthurt." Roughly 70% of Britons support the soft power diplomacy of the system, and the popularity if the arrogant complaining Sussexes is rated only slightly above Andrew's, widely loathed everywhere. 37 year old hero Harry should set about getting his own gigs and stop sucking off of his mommy and daddy's teats

^ If you ain't British R205 shut your pie hole. If you're American. Worry about your own damn country, you've got your hands full with your own damn ass.

R205. Where is the evidence of being hurt? Why would they feel hurt?

R207, I'm not American, the clue is in the username, dumbass.

Crying about 'negativity' 'griping' 'insolence' (!), 'bitching' and 'moaning' when a random internet stranger states fairly reasonably a different opinion on monarchies to you seems pretty much like butthurt to me, so cry harder R204. When Charles comes to the throne I can't wait to see people like you forced to defend the neverending carcrash it is going to be.

R209. There is no verification of user names on this sure.

I think we can see what the future holds....Harry will be sore that he was demoted to a second-class royal at the Jubilee; Meghan will be insulted that she couldn't get her pic with the baby and the Queen....as a result, Harry's book will be critical of his relatives. They will further distance themselves from the Sussexes who, when money get tight, will get more desperate and do more foolhardy things. Their embarrassing acts will lead to the royals ignoring them almost completely. When Charles becomes king, he will add a new rule that princes and princesses who live abroad will be expected not to use their titles and HRHs, in effect denying his Sussex grandchildren their princely titles. Fast forward to twelve years from now, with William either king or nearly so, and the Sussex marriage starts to dissolve. Meghan will take Harry to the cleaners and Harry will come back to the UK with his tail between his legs and try to regain the nation's respect.

R210 mate I'm not pathetic enough to lie about my origins in a throwaway username on a casual, nearly anonymous message board I only use very infrequently. You absolute tool.

Harry will never go back to be a working royal, R211, because the rest of the royals know damn well they can't trust him to do the job right.

Charles and Will will end up supporting him, though, whether they like it or not. They'll try to get out of it, but in the end, they'll realize it's better to keep him where they can squash him if they have to, than to let him be the long-term "guest" of the next Epstein.

R211. Harry and Meghan will still be married in 12 years?

R212. For a European you seem to have almost no sense of how monarchies are perceived by Europeans. I think that is why people are confused and sceptical.

Where else will she go? Over 40, 2 kids in tow. Not a stunner, or clever enough to snag anyone with a fully developed brain. Some shady creepy Russian Rich guy or middle Eastern guy might get off on laying some pipe in the holes where a future King of the UK's son has been. But will she have the stamina to take the humiliation they like to dish out. Even Janet couldn't hack it for long.

From the he Daily Mail article linked above:

[Quote]Harry is also reported to have thrown bottles and drunkenly abused teenage girls during a surfing holiday at Rock, Cornwall, two years ago. The Prince, who returned to Eton last week, had joined thousands of public school-educated teenagers who flock to the popular resort every summer. One girl said: 'Harry was sitting on a wall outside a pub. In between throwing cider bottles he was vomiting behind the wall. He is one of the most revolting people I've ever met.' The mother of another teenager staying at Rock said the Prince's attitude to women was ' intolerable'. She said: 'They are there to be used and abused, touched up and mucked about with.' Others spoke of Harry hitting one boy who put his arm around a girl in their group, saying: 'Get your hands off, she's mine. She'll do what I say.'

I wasn't a DM reader two decades ago so I missed this. I didn't realize he was *this* bad. That's really excessive behavior by any teenage standards. The article also said that Harry began drinking excessively at the age of 11 when kids in his circle were left unsupervised as the parents went off to entertain themselves. This lends more credence to the the rumors about the beatings of prostitutes in Coronado, CA (not AZ) when he was there for Apache training.

It's pretty clear that his hatred of journalists and the media stems just as much, if not more, from *his* treatment at their hands as their pursuit of Diana. They made him look bad, which he was. They made him sound like a serious alcoholic, which he probably is. His emotional development has been stunted by bad genes and too much booze. That's heavy, problem drinking for a kid and it usually doesn't stop.

R216. He can also leave her.

In addition, 1). She’s clearly not very practical or realistic in her decision-making. 2). Even if she has the good sense to realise he’s her best option economically, people can generally only tolerate so much daily unhappiness. The unrelenting failure of their ventures, the economic anxiety, and the fact that they probably have little in common could easily lead to divorce.

R215: I live in Dublin, hope that clears it up ;)

Harry used to cheat on his girlfriends but Meghan has him on such a short leash he would have a tough time doing that now.

^ Then worry about your own damn country, I'd say your hands are full with your own ass there as well.

R221 When you stop your occupation of part of our country, I'll happily refrain from commenting on yours.

Sorry, last time I checked, America wasn't occupying Southern Ireland.

Here's something to focus on concerning your own country, The Republic of Ireland. Your rate of Mental Illness. See below from the Irish Times.

R222. Which country is occupying any part of Ireland?

R223 So you're from the United States, or some other part of the Americas? In that case worry about YOUR own damn country.

R224 Yes indeed, there are a lot of deep-rooted social problems in Ireland, I don't claim it's a utopia.

R225 See below

Most countries have royal families, even if they’re no longer ruling monarchs. Pretending that the British are fools for having them is a bit… selective.

The US doesn’t have royalty (sorry, the Trumps don’t count, guys). It is so far beyond my understanding and consciousness.

But I still have immense respect for Queen Elizabeth.

This thread should be focusing on the clusterfuck that is Prince Harry, not bashing each others countries. One of these things is a lot more fun than the other.

There are huge and deep-rooted problems in the US as we all know, but the fact that the country places such definitional importance in not having a king, and the fact that Presidents are not kings, is something for its citizens to be very proud of.

(there you are R228, that's me being nice).

R228. The part of the UK that has equal right to vote in UK elections as England, Wales, and Scotland? The part of the UK whose population consistently prefers in polls to remain part of the UK? Is that the occupied part of “your country”?

R230. Yup. You can't just elide the history of sectarian partition, which has made the place utterly politically dysfunctional ever since.

R229. The absence of a constitutional monarch in the US is really nothing to get worked up about at this point. If there are any virtues in not having a constitutional monarch, they are vastly overshadowed by the huge flaws in the US constitution. I would gladly accept a politically powerless hereditary head of state in return for abolishing the Electoral College, reforming.the vastly unrepresentative US Senate., and eliminating gerrymandering, and corporate campaign finding. The Uk is arguably a much more democratic country than the US. The fact that an elderly lady is entrusted by heredity to represent the UK on state occasions doesn’t really alter that fact in the slightest.

R232 I think there's a hugely negative cultural aspect to it though. It reinforces notions of hierarchy, deference, and knowing your place. For better or worse these are very much not problems which inflict the US ;)

If you can't take the heat, keep your trap shut. I worry about my own country. Worry about yours. If you don't live in the country that has the monarchy stop worrying about it.

R231. Reunifying Ireland will make that history no longer exist?

R233. Have you set foot in the UK in the last 50 years? Do Swedes and Norwegians also shut up and accept their place in the social hierarchy? If not, why not?

I think I would accept the supposedly crippling effects on my social and economic ambitions of a hereditary monarch over the check that centuries of slavery and Jim Crow have had on people’s worth and ambitions. In case you haven’t heard, social inequality is e worse in the US than in the UK and to the extent there is inequality in the UK, abolishing the monarchy would have zero effect.

The rebellion of the United States against the British monarchy is nothing particularly important or admirable. The British monarchy was already pretty powerless by 1776. The revolution was against the policies of the British parliament. That was the substance of the revolution, not the removal of powerless King George.

Harry seems to have a huge problem with the monarchy, eh?

Petulant man-child and his virago wife.

They whine about seating arrangements and baby birthday parties and flounce away in a private fucking jet ride that cost $225,000 while people are struggling to put food on the table and a roof over their heads.

^^How does someone like that “redeem” himself?!

R228. The fact that the thread has ignored the Sussexes gives the lie to the claim that Dl is inherently fixated on hating them. They are discussed only when they are doing something stupid or offensive, which used to occur at minimum every week. Now that they are laying low, people couldn’t care less.

R234 Make me R236 Yes, slavery and Jim Crow were very bad. Yes, I lived for many years in the UK

I suppose I should say something about the Sussexes. Well, I've been a little easier on Meghan than many others have, but I did think that her trip to Uvalde was a significant new low.

Now he plays Polo and she plays the dutiful wife watching him. I can't imagine this is what she dreamed of.

Those kids aren't getting titles despite r172's delusions. Not happening. No one cares about the fake "racism" BS. Autocorrect changed "LP" to "PM".

Gentlemen, if you want to bring up The Troubles, could you do it on its own dedicated thread?

Ditto the issues of monarchy v. republic?

This thread is about whether or not Harry Windsor has a prayer of diggung himself out of the tragic hole his terrible decisions, including his choice of a wife, have left him in.

Because despite the seveeal great cards he was dealt at birth, apparently a couple of duds also slipped into the hand.

His mother's mental issues, lack of critical thinking skills, the loss of said mother at a young age, an inability to see his glass as half-full rather than half-empty, and, last, but hardly least, his disastrous choice of a wife who egged on his sense of injury + entitlement and fed him delusions of grandeur in order to achieve her own dream of global celebrity.

There is something Shakespearean about it.

How does Harey findcacway back?

Give up the battle for an extended family, his titles, and file for American citizenship?

Ditch the Bitch and start stealthily paving the road home to an ostensibly private royal life, a second marriage to a pretty young arista from his old circle?

A cup of hemlock?

Or just limp along, decently cushioned but not blazingly successful, in the life Meghan led him to, bringing up the kids as Americans as a Thing, playing polo . . . Taking a half-hearted stab at a Meaningful Moment periodically . . .

Wonder when the High Court will rule on his I Deserve Taxpayer Funded Armed Security Because Of My Immediacy In The Line Of Succession case against the Home Office?

Yes, he's a true egalitarian, our Harry.

He needs to come out as bisexual and be the first major royal to be an open member of the LGBTQAI+ community.

That would redeem him.

There is no amount of PR that can redeem him after she divorces him. Perhaps if he was in his 20s his behavior could have been attributed to the stupidity of youth but since he did this while pushing 40 it won't work. His behavior is because of major character flaws not youth. He's just a bitter disloyal entitled asshole and there is no cure for that.

It's hard to imagine a mature adult being in love with Harry Windsor and envisioning spending their life with him. He's not exactly a man of mystery; what you see is what you get. Question - do you think MM put an end date on the relationship soon after she met him, ie, saw him as an intermediate step to achieving bigger goals?

Well, the only way "those kids" don't get HRHs (they already have titles, just not HRHs) is bia Letters Patent, issued either by the Queen or, when he comes King, by Charles.

So far, Zamorah the Gypsy Fortune-Teller, those LPs are a no-show.

It is clear as your crystal ball that HM isn't going to do it.

That leaves Grandad, who, at a minimum will be a cursed of penalising his innocent grandchildren for their parents' sins. And, at a maximu, confer viability on the most famous of Meghan's assertions on the now infamous Oprah interview: the famiky are just a bunch of white colonialists.

Lots of people, I agree won't care f.a. eirher wzy.

But you're the delusional one if you haven't been following events in Britain, with statues being pulled down, calls for decolonising not only literature curricula, but questioning whether the sciences are inherently racist, and a Caninet minister was recently chased off a university campus by a mob screaming Tory Scum" because he had the hall to state that a woman was an adult female (and said Minister for Education is Brown)

. . . And you really think that Charles de-royalling the only mixed race children within 6-7 places in the line isnt going to set off a storm of accusations?

It would be an early Christmas gift to Meghan, Omid Scobie, and the emotionally damaged and somewhat dangerous cult that worships Meghan.

The Queen didn't take Harry's title for. Very good reasons. She has proved to be savvier than all the dogs baying for justice.

The smart money shrugs, renders the people with the titles irrelevant, and, thus, their titles, as well.

What no one really cares about is two invisible kids being raised as Americans 5,000 miles away carrying HRHs.

Hopefully, Charles will have learnt something from his Mum's brilliant handling of the Sussexes attempts to undermine the monarchy.

If he hasn't, he isn't fit for purpose.

^apologies for the types. But you get the drift.

Does Harry appear to have wet brain? He is fundamentally compromised and just can't put things together.

The problem for Meghan is that on her own, she just isn't appealing. All of her solo efforts have fallen flat (the book, the voice over, the 40x40), and her supposedly humanitarian visit to Uvalde was rightly mocked and criticized. Then there's the book coming out about her. She doesn't have a very wide or clear path to get to the kind of fame and adoration she imagines she's entitled to.

[quote]She’s clearly not very practical or realistic in her decision-making. 2). Even if she has the good sense to realise he’s her best option economically, people can generally only tolerate so much daily unhappiness.

So merge those two. Isn't it a likely scenario a decision to divorce is made based on the contempt of living with someone who didn't deliver what you expected and is now little more than a second rate polo player? And then you move to divorce convinced there's a lavish settlement to be found... somewhere. And by the time you realize there isn't, you've already left your second rate polo player so there's no going back? Just a theory.

BTW I read the Tina Brown book and was really sorry I paid for it. It felt rushed and superficial and there really wasn't much in it that was new. I won't waste money on her again. I didn't even find her style consistently engaging, which a number of posts here suggested. Maybe she was off her head with widow grief but it just landed with a thud for me. Really disappointed.

But all the royal bios of late are bad. I guess it's because nobody will understandably go on the record. It reads like a long, sane DL post summarizing everything that's gone on. No colour, no insight. I think the only thing that was new to me was according to her Prince Philip died in his sleep.

Fraus have been certain of imminent Harkles divorce since June 2018.

Harry once had an image that was apparently cleaned up by TPTB, so the "real" Harry was not seen. I wonder which Harry he thinks he is? if some of the tales surfacing now or that were covered by some blind items in the past are true, there is some nasty shit about the actual Harry.

So, if those big negatives are true, his disdain for the media might be puzzling as they obviously knew more about him than they reported.

As for Harry's wife, I think she's used to playing by "Hollywood" rules. Without the help of her father and Trevor, both of whom are/were actually talented and worked for their success and reputations, she would never have had the little fame that she did have. Then she was a medium size fish in a smallish (Toronto, not LA) pond and even thought she hooked up with the chef (another man whose success was achieved through HIS talent and hard work) she then was hoping to hook up with someone from the UK. She probably couldn't believe her luck when Harry came up on her radar. BONANZA!

But "Hollywood" rules didn't work, and her opening shot (obviously that "Kate didn't offer me a ride to go shopping" blind item to her buddy) was the first in a long, long line of mistakes. Whatever did she hope to accomplish with that little "bon mot"? There was really only one possible source for that bit and she was too stupid to realize that she could hardly have made a worse choice than to antagonize the already wary William.

So, this pair, with few brain cells between them, are stumbling around. Their ineptitude is visible to all around them.

I might have felt some sympathy for them, but I will save all of that for the two children whose future means they are saddled with these 2 for parents.

Poor kids.

Yes, r247. But you seem to be missing the massive global pushback on fake racism cries and woke garbage. The Queen and Charles live with their heads in the sand. William does not, and he is increasingly wielding his power.

R255 - It's not quite that massive, yet. And the BRF is in a particularly sensitive spot on this one.

William may, indeed, be wielding increasing powers of influence behind the scenes.

But one thing he has absolutely NO power to do is issue Letters Patent, and probably won't for at least fifteen years.

So, you should excuse the expression, "willy-nilly", it still rests with the Queen, who hasn't done it, and Charles, who probably won't.

William also didn't want the Sussexes to have any part whatsoever in the Jubly. He was overruled by Gran, who turned out to know how to play chess better than William does.

As for William's influence on his father - that remains to be seen. They're much closer than they used to be, and William is father to the only grandchildren with whom Charles has a relationship (way to GO, Harry and Meghan!).

Just the same, re-ordering the disposition of HRHs, which is to say, amending the Titles Act of 1917, is quite a formal thing to do.

The agreed-upon approach seems to be to let nature take its course, and let the Sussexes drown in their own cesspool of meaningless title brandishing.

Of course, if Andrew really is stripped of his York title, the next natural similar target is not Harry's kids, but Harry himself.

I'll believe it all when I see it.

Meanwhile, the sweet, white-haired old lady with the wide blue eyes, soft cultured voice, handbag, gloves, and pearls seems to have outfoxed the Sussexes from here to Babylon (threescore and ten, as the old rhyme has it).

I'm inclined to hang with Betty's now proven strategy.

A blogger (Royal Foibles) had this to say about Harry...

"I’ve been assured Her Majesty’s courtiers, and certainly Charles and William’s courtiers, would be more than happy to expose Harry and Meghan’s dark side to the world, if only to even the score with them, which includes Harry’s alleged ongoing drug addiction, that Meghan might have enabled and controlled rather than cured, his alleged ongoing gambling addiction, which is among the reasons why they were so desperate to leave the Royal Family so they could earn their own money, and Harry’s tendency to grow violent with anyone, including his wife, behind closed doors when he doesn’t get his way. "

Anyway, what makes you think Harry wants to go 'back'? He has made it clear that he didn't enjoy his old life. He and Meghan won't get to be a Hollywood power couple as they (she?) seem to have wanted, but I could see him being content with a quiet life somewhere perhaps working with nature somehow.

[quote] ...his alleged ongoing gambling addiction, which is among the reasons why they were so desperate to leave the Royal Family so they could earn their own money

Interesting. Yes, I understand this is just gossip, but I've never heard this before.

So, Californians, what kind of gambling establishments could Haz be frequenting in the Golden State, around Santa Barbara? Could he be running afoul of the mob?

Royal Foibles sounds a bit far fetched if only because if he's that kind of hot mess, do you send him forth in the world to meet his fate or try to keep him short leashed and control the damage? Every ugly thing that happens to him or her or both of them together sucks the royal family into it. They wouldn't have invited them back for Jubilee if they were throwing them to the wolves. Royal Foibles might get royally sued with loose talk like that. And check me - I think they're both a pair of fools and less and worse.

ConcernedEuropean - Your problem is that you believe that anything Harry says is connected to some well-integrated personal who has thought things through carefully, when what you're hearing and seeing is the acting out of a mentally unstable and emotionally stunted man.

He THINKS he wanted to leave, but in fact what he really wanted was to stay in, but as they Heir. He THINKS he doesn't care about titles and privilege, but it's glaringly obvious he and his wife were obsessed with rank and status, particularly where Harry's family were concerned.

Meghan and Harry don't give up Whew, thank God we left, Ain't we got fun! vibes.

As it is, their first efforts were aimed at justifying a stance that twisted itself into a pretzel trying to remain IN enough to hold onto to their status and privilege, but OUT enough not to have to do the heavy lifting that his father, brother, sister-in-law, Pss Anne, the Wessexes, etc., were doing.

He's not a nice man and she's not a nice woman. They have been crafty and disingenuous, but not crafty or disingenuous enough to hide their hypocrisy where what they really wanted OUT to mean.

Acting out is not the same thing as mature, adult decision-making.

I put it to you that Harry didn't so much as want OUT as he wanted IN but on his own terms.

What he got was OUT, but on the BRF's terms.

And there he remains, waiting for the axe to fall from Netflix and Spotify - an axe leant to them by Gran and Papa after politely wiping the Sussex's blood off.

"Anyway, what makes you think Harry wants to go 'back'?"

Harry doesn't want to go back, he just wants the status and the perks with none of the responsibility. Which is why he'll never be let back, they know he doesn't support the family business and can't be trusted with responsibility, even if he tires of Meg and California he'll still never be able to tolerate the restrictions put on a working royal. He'll end up on a royal short leash, one way or another, but that leash will be too short to reach into the inner circles.

And BTW, I think that both Elizabeth and Charles have made up their minds that they aren't going to issue LPs depriving him of his titles, unless he ends up in prison for murder or something. They're leaving it to William, who will be king within 20 years. If Elizabeth or Charles do it they'll be criticized for cutting off their progeny, whom they bred and raised badly, but nobody will criticize William for cutting off a worthless brother. Everybody cuts off worthless leech siblings, once their parents are gone.

R259 - the only legal gambling in California is done on Native American sovereign nation land. There are a lot of them. The couple that I know of up here in N. California are in rural areas. One is plopped in the middle of farmland and the other in a small town surrounded by country. So he could do it with relative discretion. Who would be expecting him in BFE? And, of course, casinos don't allow photography. I assume there are also private illegal clubs. And private games among the wealthy.

I have no idea if he has a gambling problem, but I've known a few people who had drug and/or alcohol addictions and gambling problems to boot. (Alcohol/drug disinhibition and gambling can go hand in hand) One was a very wealthy man who ran for a very high political office (he dated a friend) and the other was the youngest lawyer, up until that point, to argue a case in front of the Supreme Court (I dated a friend if his). These were highly visible people in the community and AFAIK, no one but a handful of people knew. I was surprised. My long winded point is that it can be done and no one would be the wiser. Until the money drains away.

R259, California is full of Indian Casinos, google tells me there are several near Santa Barbara. But I doubt Harry goes to public casinos full of Asian seniors, if he really does have a gambling problem then he's absolutely going to be invited to high-stakes private games.

Where he will be fleeced by the pros, and if you ever want to go through a $40 mil inheritance at top speed, buy a huge house that costs a fortune to run, and gamble for high stakes. Those are billionaire hobbies, millionaires can't afford to live like that.

I forgot the link at r263

Get real. People who want to live a quiet life don't have a PR team on retainer and they certainly don't bring a camera crew with them when they're doing something "in their capacity as a mother."

Good lord, its the 21st century, you don't need to leave the house to gamble. OnLine casino's are where it all goes on now.

The people I've known with gambling addictions do it all online. They are also people who give the appearance of having money.

Harry has incentive to leave the house.

^ Yes, to leave the house, but unless accompanied will he be able to find his way back to the house. Think this is the reason for all demands for protection. Someone to help him when he can't read the signs & gets lost & can't get home to Mommy Meggie,(Sob!!)

Gambling is a VERY good way to lose a lot of money quickly. I always forget about it. Maybe that’s why he’s so crazy for security - he owes some baddies…

The Harry who loves Nature is a complete fabrication. He likes blasting elephants up the ass with a shotgun, that’s what he likes. Maybe he likes sampling the local exotic intoxicants and banging the native women raw. That’s what he likes about Africa.

Harry wakes up and divorces Meghan, realizing she is responsible for the deterioration of his relationship with his blood families (Windsor/Spencer) and by her refusal to make amends to her father, esp. after his recent medical problems as well as her bombshell and hurtful Oprah revelations which forced Harry to back up her selfish and incendiary revelations. I give them five more years together at the most.

Nah, she's got him right where she wants him. He is despised in the UK, even by his own family. He will not be able to navigate the US on his own, too dumb & lazy & too old & set in his ways. Most of his money will be gone. His cachet is gone. Who else will want him except for a brag fuck..oooh I fucked Prince Harry..They are tied to each other. She won't make a big score. This is as good as it can get for either one of them.

I enjoyed Royal Foibles, but last time I looked the website was gone.

R258. Yes, Harry hated his old life because it involved some effort and did not provide him with the level of royal privilege and importance he desired. Now that he has realised he will have no privileges or importance at all in the long term, he will find past life more desirable. The most important incentive to return, however, will be financial. His inheritance was enough to sustain his life style for a few years, but that will be coming to an end. His musings about wanting to live a simple life are a joke. You’ve seen the house they bought.

Now that Rupert Murdoch is available perhaps the Sussex divorce will happen sooner than later...

Meghan is probably already scouting opportunities to sit next to Rupert at some event and spread her chicken legs like she did for Serenna's husband.

R274, Royal Foibles has a public page on Facebook.

Very shocking that he implies that Harry is violent toward Meghan.

At 91 what is the appeal for Murdoch to marry her? Doubt he can get it up without a crane. She's not eye candy, for sure. Nor a trophy wife of any worth, to dangle on his arm.. So, what would be the point?

But this could be a silver lining. Anyone who really cares for Harry must be Hoping & Praying, Megs has a drug fueled fantasy about marrying Rupert. Then on the horns of said fantasy. dumps Haz. & kiddies to pursue Rupert.

Everybody can see what she's about. Only the lowest of the low would settle for that at this point. You'd be a laughingstock.

R277 Personally I think it's a mutually abusive relationship. I remember not long after they were married, Harry was pictured with a huge bruise on his hand the look liked he had been bitten or something crazy like that.

Seriously, a bite on the hand could well be a defensive wound. People on the attack go for vulnerable areas, a hand wound is more likely to come from someone trying to make a person release their grip.

What is the likelihood that hotshot Haz did some big stock and crypto buys from his SF tech buddies, back in 2020 when he was lubed up to take on the world?

Frankly, I'm not at all sure that Harry is interested in "redemption", per se. He may be interested in retaining and availing himself again of his royal status in Britain, but that's not the same thing.

Harry's memoir being put back to next year is quite interesting from the aspect of "redemption".

The possibilities are:

Even with the help of a first-class ghost writer, it's so bad it needs to be rewritten.

The BRF has told Harry that this time they aren't going to ignore any claims he makes that are defamatory, they WILL sue, so he'd better dial it back.

If he does dial it back, will Random House even want to publish it?

The poisoned pawn the Sussexes took when they accepted the invitation to the Jubly stunned Harry, and he needs to incorporate it into the book, which should be, er, interesting and probably not anything that will lead to "redemption" - including a major decision prompted by the Jubly PR disaster, i.e., filing for American citizenship and ditching his titles as they're little use now in America, and obviously he's toast in Britain.

He's waiting for the Queen to die so he doesn't risk the Queen finally losing patience, and taking his titles on the basis of the venom he really wants to inject into the memoir.

The memoir is key to any discussion of Harry and redemption. It was supposed to be published on 29 September. It's been put back to next year.

Read that handwriting on the wall after what happened at the Jubly, and tell me you still think Harry can be "redeemed".

I'm still think that the Harkles were summoned by The Queen for that 30 minute meeting they had on the way to to the Invictus Games. And I think they were read the riot act, probably by the men in grey suits and even perhaps with The Queen's legal team, with the Queen simply looking on They were probably told there would be no holding back if they continue to damage The Monarchy (we'll sue and demolish you). Harry certainly looked shaken in subsequent pictures in days that followed. Why they would have shown up at Jubilee is anyone's guess ... but I guess pictures for Netfilx, and they're just plain stupid any way.

^Fan fiction. No way the Queen 'probably threatened to 'sue or demolish her gandson. Haz is so delicate that informing him he is not going to officially participate is enough to shake him. He's off somewhere right now planning some more bullshit.

No way. The Queen is weak. Shocking they were actually dealt with for the jubilee but why on earth would they even be invited?

R286 You don't get it, do you?

They were invited precisely so the Queen would look magnanimous, whilst at the same time showing the world just that the family and public thought of them.

They walked right into her trap.

As noted elsewhere, that sweet old white-haired lady with her misty blue eyes, alabaster skin, hats, handbags, pearls, and gloves completely outfoxed the Sussexes.

If they weren't invited, the Queen would have looked churlish.

If they refused the invitation, the Sussexes would have looked sullen and churlish.

She boxed them in right where she wanted them. She made the lines clear without having to make a public statement.

No more rumours about "open doors", the Return of the Sussexes, olive branches, William and Harry face-timing weekly, healed rifts, etc.

With one clever move she cleared the deck, made everyone's position clear, sent the Sussexes a message about burnt bridges, and paid the Sussexes back with some richly earned public humiliation.

And all whilst looking like she'd taken the High Road in inviting them.

You could hear Machiavelli's ghost cheering amongst the boos.

Rule #1: NEVER go after the Queen.

Rule #2: NEVER use a bludgeon when a scalpel will do.

Rule #3: NEVER let the other side set the terms of engagement.

You keep telling yourself that r287. Many, many people see otherwise. The Queen has lived with her head in the sand regarding family issues for decades. She allowed the marriage AFTER Meghan was already behaving terribly, and is now covering up the bullying investigation. It's been one terrible decision after the other. Nobody expected them to be invited. What people expect is those titles removed. You really live in a fantasy land.

^^^ ahhhh how wrong you are, the queen has played the masyer plan, now everyone knows meghan is a bully. She has said that loud and clear.

Who are these fantasists who expect ThOsE tItLeS to be rescinded anyway? The ones I've noticed are not very well informed OCD types, of a stan type mentality, and small in number. It's funny too believing that the Queen would not "allow" a 35yo man who will never be an heir, to marry his choice. R288 has a quite limited historical perspective on the Monarchy.

So you feel a violent, physically and mentally abusive narc with a severe personality disorder was a good choice to get behind and support? How odd. Do all Bride think like this?

*Brits*

[quote]She allowed the marriage AFTER Meghan was already behaving terribly

No, she allowed the marriage because she was hopeful that it would work out, and that Harry would finally find happiness and stability in his marriage, just like your own grandmother would, and like any loving grandparent would. You think she has a crystal ball?

[quote]and is now covering up the bullying investigation.

Awww, wrong again toots, The Palace has buried the bullying investigation, for future use, and in the meantime, Meghan knows full well what is in that report ... and the palace will drip that venom if and when it is necessary ... they play the long game, the intelligent game ... not the clumsy and infantile rash decision making that the Harkles have displayed over the years.

[quote]What people expect is those titles removed.

The titles mean nothing when the individual doesn't have the good character to honor the title... the Palace knows that the Harkles are a farce ... and as such their titles are meaningless. The King of the cellblock is still just a lousy criminal behind bars after all - in the end, without good character there is no respect, no matter what the title may be

She allowed the marriage because they were all scared of the backlash due to MM biracial background. If she were a white American divorced actress there would have been more rumblings.

The Sussexes always had the race card as their trump card. But pretty soon they won’t be able to use it anymore. THAT is why the family had to go along with the wedding and the “spectacle”. Which, by the way, I think was designed to call Meghan’s bluff. All those sweet nods to her African-American heritage, LOL. She couldn’t have refused. She had to sit there and smile at it.

You're a stupid idiot r293. There's just no other way to describe such an incredibly bizarre thought process. You sound like those old women loons on Tumblr. Harry is a spy! The Queen is playing strategic chess! Now they have Meghan just where they want her! Sure, Jan. The Queen has had her head in the sand for DECADES regarding her family's bad behavior. You're just too blind (or willfully ignorant) to see it.

P.S. My grandmother would never approve of a marriage to anyone that was already treating people the way Meghan was before the marriage. No decent person would.

^Most grandmothers don't have much say in who their adult, almost middle-aged, grandchildren marry.

R287, that reminds me of an unpopular child who was thrilled to be invited to a classmate's birthday party. Little did he know that he had only been invited because his mother insisted, and when he got there, he was ignored and humiliated by the other children.

Obviously r298. However at the time of his marriage Harry was 6th in line and required permission from the sovereign.

Mrs. Harkle is out - permanently - nothing can be done for her.

Harry might be able to redeem himself by moving to Africa and dedicating the rest of his life to saving animals and possibly human beings too but mostly animals.

I have no idea what the story is on the Invisible-kids. I'm not sure that they even exist. The strongest evidence that at least one of them exists and that Mrs Harkle was ever pregnant is her inability to get her figure back. She's a great big fat person now - tottering that square torso around on chicken legs.

Camilla redeemed herself. It took decades, and not everyone adores her, but she turned it around. Beatrice has made a few smart moves, which have endeared her a bit. Harry has potential, but the chances that he’ll ever try are slim.

There’s no way back for Andrew or Meghan.

What about Fergie, R302? Despite her numerous faux pas, people don't seem to mind her.

Oh yes, R302. She’s likable. The worst thing she did was to sell access. In comparison, it’s not that bad. In comparison…

She doesn’t come off as malicious or pompous. She doesn’t try to be anything she’s not. She doesn’t preach.

Meghan is malicious. That's her downfall.

At the risk of getting between two warring DLers, may I add that the Queen is in a tough spot with regard to approving marriages. She has a constitutional right and responsibility to do so, currently for the first six people in the line of success but previously for all the descendants of George II except for the descendants of princesses who marry outside the realm. As far as I know, she has never refused permission. In the case of her sister Princess Margaret, the Queen asked Margaret to wait. On what basis would she refuse someone permission? At the same time, in the case of Harry, she is his grandmother. Does she want to deny her grandson the path he thinks will bring him happiness? Of course not. Nor does she relish, I believe, being put in this position. So, she does the best she can. Who knows -- maybe Harry and Meghan will find a niche in Southern California where they can make enough money to be rich people and will calm down about trying to manipulate or harm their own families. Much will be determined by what's in his book. If he reveals family secrets, he's done for. If he restates the grudges he has already said in the Oprah interview, the coolness will remain. If he recasts his grudges to show growth -- i.e., if he reflects on them and more-or-less puts them aside, maybe there's a possibility of his relationship with his family re-opening.

"line of succession," not "line of success"

I don't think there is any way back for Harry.

It's not like he went out and publicly did awful things unrelated to his family and or said horrible things about non-family members. He said and did awful things TO AND ABOUT HIS FAMILY and continues to do so. He didn't just bite the hand that fed him, he chomped it off, chewed it up, swallowed it and then keeps regurgitating it to chomp on it some more. He needs to crawl under a rock when Meggy Sharp discards him.

He also thought insulted the nation and issued public pronouncements announcing his intention to use his positon unethically. Those things make a return difficult.

Also he sat back while Meghan said reports of Philip dying were muzzling her. Then Philip died shortly there after. He also made it clear that he was reporting private things said to him to Gayle King to threaten the Family. If he comes back it will be to a council flat in Slough, w. full time guards watching his every move.

R288 - You're the one living in a fantasy land. The Queen knew quite well she couldn't refuse Harry permission to marry Meghan without inciting cries of racism.

Let alone cancel said permission in the runup to the wedding after the engagement.

In that sense, Meghan and Harry held some cards at that point.

What they did was play those cards so badly that they antagonised the rest of the family and lost any hope of support as the game played out.

I do agree that the Queen has a long history of burying her head in the sand over family matters. But once the proverbial hit the fan, the Queen knew how to regroup.

When she had to deal with it, she did. She ordered the Wales divorce, she refused to let Meghan and Harry draw the family into open warfare in the press, she didn't take the titles to avoid seeming to be just like the Sussexes: petty and vindictive.

And, in the end, the BRF won and the Sussexes lost.

The BRF were boxed in by the race issue initially.

But once the couple left, the Queen played the endgame perfectly.

You know what they say in chess: the winner is the player who makes THE NEXT TO LAST MISTAKE.

That would be the Queen.

Fergie may be likeable - there's a sizeable contingent of people who think she's a fool or an idiot - but her only way "back" is through marriage to Andrew, which effectively means Markle, Andrew and Fergie have no way back.

I believe there is a latent desire for all to be well, happy families, all that bullshit, so there might be a way back for Harry if he can shut up and do the job like Prince Edward stepped up. All it will take is word that William forgives and then for Harry to do the work and behave and it could happen. From what I can tell it is as likely both Sussexes are the reason for the mess, each in their own ways, but he's getting a pass not because she's black but because he was there first. People may not forgive and forget entirely, but the whole country got used to shrugging its shoulders at his latest fuck up. This marriage and the subsequent shenanigans are just his latest fuck ups. They were cruel, but so ham fisted and self-defeating its hard to hold it too much against him since he didn't do much damage. The dogs bark but the caravan passes by.

The British people watched Harry grow up. They remember him as a toddler, a child, a boy who had to walk behind his mother's coffin, a teenager, and a young man. They loved him despite his shenanigans. That's why they are so angry at him. But at the same time, it's also why they could want him back in the future. The emotions run high. However, I don't think they could forgive Meghan. She took their prince away from them, and they see through her affectations of being philanthropic and committed to human rights. "Fool me once..." Watching the videos on another thread of Harry as a child shows how devoted he and William were to another as an older and younger brother. I wonder whether, if ten years hence, if Harry has moved away from his devotion to Meghan, William might take him back.

Wonder how much $$ it would take for Meghan to walk away from Harry and the kids?

Meghan will not 'walk away; the divorcists are living in dreamland. Their crap PR is still heavily flogging the notion that Will is to blame for the problems, to the extent he is the lone key to fixing it up. The only way forward for the BRF is to carry on, and I think they're doing a good job of it.

Remember, too, if Kate is a kind as she is reputed to be, and there's no reason to think otherwise because the only real negative thing ever put out about her is who made who cry, and as family oriented as she is reputed to be, she will probably try to repair the damage and probably get it past the goal line. But who could do that with the Markle agenda as part of the mix? Whatever Markle is or isn't, it's fair to argue her agenda and her style doesn't integrate with the job of the monarchy. Which is such a shame. She could have been beloved, literally, if she had any understanding of how the thing worked.

Markle = major league fumble. I believe her claim that she never googled the BRF.

LOL yeah, that whole, "I didn't know anything about the BRF and only cared if Harry was kind" was just a laughably bad overreach on her part. She's not nearly a skilled enough actress to pull of BS like that.

Markle underestimated the Queen: she probably thought "the poor, old dear; she loves Harry too much to say no to being part-time royals." She underestimated the "gray men" who oversee the monarchy: she probably said, "They are our servants, Harry -- they do what we tell them." And she completely underestimated William: she probably thought "Harry and William are equals -- two brothers who are the grandsons of the Queen." She overlooked that the Queen is a steely, experienced constitutional monarch. She overlooked that the "gray men" are old hands at dealing with a gold-digger. She overlooked that William is an alpha male who will protect his family, their inheritance, and the Crown.

I will never understand how Markle couldn't detect that the Queen is very bright, focused and disciplined. Although Harry stated she is the only person he fears, he barrelled on ahead anyway. At this point there's no hope of meeting OP's challenge as long as Markle is on the scene.

R320 Because Meghan has a huge ego and can't see beyond her own "greatness"

Meghan always thinks she is the smartest, prettiest, most captivating person in the room.

R298, well most people don’t have the Queen of England as their grandmother. She controls it all.

No, HMQ could not stop Harry’s marriage. She could have refused Harry housing, or a position as a working royal.

Does the original requirement for The Queen's consent to a marriage have something to do with ensuring that the Monarchy remain Anglican? I mean short of a potential spouse no getting through a security assessment, I can't see The Queen stopping a marriage.

Harry was a working royal before his marriage; why would the Queen 'refuse to continue the arrangement, or his 'lodging? I don't understand the thought process

This fucking thread is still going. God, you cunts are boring and unhealthily obsessed, still typing people you know zilch about and believing gossip rags.

So I've finally read "Crazy Rich Asians", which is about the problems that come with marrying or trying to marry into the ultra-elite, and of course it made me thinking of Meg and Harry. Of course in the book it's all played as a series of romantic fairy tales, where love conquers all and when men decide to play "white knight", everything works out. But in real life, of course, Rachel is right, and anyone who marries that far up is always going to be "less than" and their children area always going to be "less than".

But of course the REAL fairy tale in that book, is that the rich-boy romantic hero has another life he can step into, where he can be a gainfully employed professor at a prestigious university, and he has the option of living an life that's comparatively humble, but interesting and productive. In real life, of course, the rich boy has no clue what to do with himself, other than drink and scratch up a polo team from the local horsey kids.

Hi Meghan! R327

You can't pay somebody like Meghan off because she can't be trusted to keep her mouth shut.

R326, it’s really not that hard to understand. When someone controls the purse strings they can control those who are dependent. I’ve known wealthy families who have disapproved of their kid’s choice of spouse. 9 times out 10, the child didn’t marry said person. I know one who did and divorced quickly. If the kid is fine with giving up $upport, their place in the family business etc.... they will. Most don’t. These are how the truly wealthy do things. BRF are unique in that they are massively famous and serve the people. Harry is the type that would’ve still ran off and would’ve made their lives 10x worse than he has if they refused to accept his choice of wife. They were in a no win situation.

[quote]God, you cunts are boring and unhealthily obsessed, still typing people you know zilch about

She says, typing up insults about people she knows zilch about.

R331, yeah, but he thought he could be independent. He had a bit of his own money, and Meghan convinced him that they could be wildly successful. Shit, she had respectable publications (not just People Mag) writing that they’d be a billion-dollar brand. Somehow they convinced some big companies to give them lots of money. They can’t sustain it, and they can’t sustain their lifestyle, but they were off to a good start.

She must be persuasive.

He cheated on his other girlfriends, would he dare do it to Meghan? She keeps him on a very short leash so it would be tricky.

I think she saw people like the Kardashians and other reality "stars" and figured it would be a snap to slot right into that. The thing I really detest about her is she thinks people can be so easily manipulated. Plus all the lies. It all comes down to disrespect for others.

R331, an important difference is that if Harry "married" without the Queen's permission, by law it would not be a valid marriage.

So much of the quality of one’s life depends on one’s choice of spouse. Harry did NOT choose well.

It was bound to happen. He wanted a borderline like his first mommy, ad he got his wish x100.

I really don't think Meghan is a Borderline!

I think she's ambitious, not as bright as she thinks she is, and a bitch, but she isn't irrational. No, if either of them has a full-blown personality disorder, it's Harry.

I really do think Megan is a Borderline, at minimum! It is nothing but irrational to show up with armed bodyguards and Netflix photographers 48 hours after a mass shooting that is yet a crime scene, and expect entry into the site. She is delusional and maybe hallucinating. Borderline, nsrcissist, ocd, bipolar

They both had these fractured childhoods, that's likely a big part of the attraction and the problem.

I subscribe to some aspects of personality being inborn, and the rest solidified by responses to the environment the child finds itself in.

It can be hard to tell them apart, I grant, but I remain of the opinion that Harry drew the short straws in his family environment, but that some of those were inherited from his idolised Mum. He has Diana's narcissism, her emotional lability, and his inability to make savvy long-term calls. That the hierarchy he was born into reinforced his issues might not have done so if he'd been born with a different temperament, and within a happier family life.

Sorry hunty, half of the world has divorced parents. They were both doted on by large families and had plenty of opportunities to enrich themselves. They choose to be assholes

R343. Agreed. The things they have most in common is they 1) were desperately spoiled by their families, 2) grew up obsessed with celebrity and 3) are both extreme stupid. I think the third factor has been vastly underestimated in Meghan’s case. For a long time, it was widely assumed that she, although certainly not terribly bright, was much more intelligent than he. I actually think she may be as stupid as, if not more stupid than, he is. After all, she went to Uvalde while he did not. Her failure to grasp fundamental realities of adult life is also less explicable than Harry’s failure to do so. Meghan, unlike Harry, has lived her entire life in the real world.

But Northwestern is an ELITE school. Practically an Ivy, they say.

It’s not that hard to get good grades anymore, especially when you’re a suck up who played the race card. Sorry, we all know these people.

She’s smart about who to bully and who to flatter, that’s all.

^^. The things the have most in common are that they….extremely stupid.

Harry’s a little bitch punk.

I've said it before, I'll say it again, Harry should have taken a page out of Sweden's Prince Carl Philip's playbook.

The guy enjoys a nice privileged life with his former reality star wife and doesn't appear to have a chip on his shoulder. Just enjoys all his many perks. He was born the heir to throne but the rules were changed before his first birthday and his sister became the heir. Now he is someone who could have festered a grudge and resentment towards his older sibling and his lot in life but he hasn't. Possibly he understands that he still has more than most people can dream of even being with demoted way down the line. Also his wife doesn't appear to be a raging jealous lunatic so that probably helps too.

There's another Swedish princess/sister who married a financial guy and moved to NYC and then Florida. I've never seen her giving any interviews pissing and moaning about her older sister getting all the goodies.

What is Harry's damage? Did the Nanny drop him on his head when no one was looking?