Andrea Dworkin

I don't care about straight porn being criticized or banned (though I don't think it's fair to female erotic or porn performers and impeding on their freedom) but don't touch gay porn.

The porn industry has been pushing sexual violence towards women for decades. I agree that should be banned. I've not seen any women demanding gay porn be banned, R1. That's right-wing conservatives.

She certainly didn't get ahead of the food cart.

She was the Jewish Roxane Gay.

She was right about the violence and sadism towards women in straight porn.

She was gross and tendentious.

How so, R6? Illuminate us with your pearls of wisdom..

No, she was quite retrograde. She thought all penetrative sex was violence. Her brand of “sex wars” feminism permeated most episodes of Designing Women.

Any person claiming to help an oppressed group that willingly allies themselves with the religious right is misguided at best, harmful at worst. Porn is a symptom, not the illness itself. Dworkin was a nutcase and the precursor to every insane woke bitch today.

She manufactured a rape scenario for herself that literally no-one believed,. It was embarrassing.

Katha Pollitt wrote a good column on her when she died:

MRA-baiting thread

R12 Man-hating, pussy-licker baiting post

All heterosexual sex is rape

Also courtesy of OP:

[quote]Don’t believe any women ... They’re all liars

From R15 “If a man makes you mad accuse him of misconduct… fuck it, men have done worse to women forever”

Yeah ... except I never wrote that, r16

R17 don’t lie, you fucking cunt!

Come on, that's John Candy.

I remember reading about Andrea Dworkin’s (and Catherine MacKinnon’s I think) brand of feminism back in the 90s. Like R1 I use to think the same, hands off my gay porn. Now though, not so much, have at it. The voices of porn performers, in mainstream culture, have become too normalized (by way of social media outlets). These are damaged individuals who should have less influence on the general culture/gay culture. Bring’em down. Also, for those who don’t know their feminist history, the interests of the Religious Right and mainstream feminism have crossed paths before…. see Hustler magazine/Larry Flynt. I’m sure many an authentic feminist believes that feminism hitching its wagon to the Left/LGBTQIA’s has left them in the same position as they’ve always been in throughout history- taking a backseat to men’s interests.

I get a kick out of the fact that Florence King wrote a blurb for Dworkin's Life and Death:

[quote]Some things are more important than politics, and the English language leads the list. Andrea s best essays display the kind of rigorous classical style and unequivocal stance that I admire and strive for in my own work. I may not always agree with what she says, but I love the way she says it.”

I've read Phyllis Chesler's memoir, it's pretty gossipy. In the late 60s Dworkin was married to an abusive man, and Chesler hints that her next partner, (both men were blond, Aryan-looking men) John Stoltenberg, was controlling, that she never really got away from male control. She could not have done her work if she hadn't married John, he had a good job with health benefits.

Pollitt (who often seems like an airhead) sums her up quite well. She had something to say but wound up helping to make herself into a caricature.

She looks retarded . Was she les?

Jesus, she's hard to look at.

She was a brilliant linguist and essayist, but it's a shame she pissed it all away on a shrill crusade.

Andrea: Just because no one wants to fuck YOU doesn't mean the world needs less sex overall.

OP = obvious troll

She was mentally ill.

Dworkin

The name says it.

R26 and all of his fellow travelers posting here.

They go around this board having their phony teardown/agreement sessions, made to look like an organic conversation.

I remember hearing that she rolled everywhere she went because when she stood up she was a phallic symbol.

She was not a fan of penised persons. Her husband John Stoltenberg is a gay man who not only did not give her the sex, but (according to what I was told, though it beggars belief) held the strong opinion that erections were morally wrong, and that men should have sex without them.

This hefty girl lived in two time zones.

I've known many lesbians who had early marriages to men who had been controlling and abusive and subsequently these women had a lot of philosophical and interpersonal issues with men, generally. I figured Dworkin was like this, R22. According to wiki, Stoltenberg was an active ally in her causes, although it also may beg the question of whether that compromised her own agency.

How many times did she lie about being raped again?

She was a mentally I’ll con artist. May she rest in hell. Fat stupid cow.

I've always imagined her having the worst B.O.

R20 is a typical fascist.

Her poor toilet seat.

I'd trust a porn performer before I'd trust a Republican.

R36 Is an example of the ignorance that rules social media today. Can barely read or write, but much like his ancestors of the Middle Ages, he can repeat buzz words.

The funny thing is when Dworkin and the other sex negative feminists were going after straight porn, it was rather tame. Only a very small percentage was violent, and of course, they focused on that as if all or nearly all was like that. For a long time, the bondage videos contained no sexual content in them.

It wasn't until in the late 90s or early 2000s when porn started becoming more violent and degrading to women.

Bullshit, R40.

Mainstream non-X rated stuff in the 60s was increasingly degrading to women.

R40, back then there was violent degrading porn, you can see a scene in the documentary Not a Love Story of a man pulling out a woman's public hair. On the Rialto Report website they have scans of old straight porn mags from the 70s and 80s, and there were ads for hardcore porn in them. It was just harder to find, now you can see that and worse.

There's a lot of female erotic content creators. Many female porn stars used their wealth to create their own studios. There's been a rise of porn that caters to women and emphasizes female orgasm. Female porn directors too who direct both straight porn and gay porn. Many women make money writing erotica. There's also a vocal community of lesbian porn creators who cater exclusively to lesbians.

Like modeling, porn is one of the few industries where women get paid substantially more than men. Not denying the problematic and misogynistic aspects but there's too many women who enjoy the work and make a lot of money off of it. It would feel infantilizing towards them to paint all porn as bad and exploitative and anti-woman.

She a bitch!

[quote] She was a brilliant linguist and essayist,

She was neither. Dworkin was an inept writer with delusions of mediocrity.

I feel like sex is just something humans will never find a common ground about. Even in the ancient world it was a highly debated topic. It is probably because humankind has extremely high sex drive and there's no mating season thus sex is a mostly recreational act. Combine that with the fact we have huge brains and can reason and have self-awareness. We become self-conscious of sexuality, attractiveness, comfort, pain and all these other factors. Then stuff like peer pressure, sexual abuse, gender roles, homophobia or organized religion. There's so much emotion, baggage, drama and trauma linked to sex that it will always be a polarizing subject.

I remember years ago borrowing the computer of my husband’s sixteen year old son and he had downloaded a brutal straight fuck scene. The guy in the video was hot as fuck and he was impaling her with his cock.

She was highly intelligent, had a compelling voice and manner, and no discernible body odor. I was invited to have dinner with her years ago. I sat there listening to her realizing I was mentally tweezing her eyebrows, touching up her roots, applying a clay mask and a thin layer of foundation and putting her on a treadmill.

Some of us are just superficial bitches.

R5 Because things like piss, fisting, and rape in prison isn’t in gay porn.

R43 This. There are women who are selling pubic hair, bath water, used condoms, all sorts of nasty stuff on OnlyFans.

To say porn is just violent and degrading to women contradicts how much money are earning for it today.

She didn't just write about porn. And she had a seriously great prose style too. She was a hell of a writer. But she was too offensive and so she has been reduced to "fat angry clown who hated porn" by people who never read her books.

Dworkin remined me of Madeleine Murray O'Hare - I agreed with her cause, but her presentation was extremely off putting.

Dworkin bump

Red tagged trolls rage farming. 😡👨‍🌾

Nothing to see here. 🚫

She's a horrible person and always was

She's been dead for almost 20 years.

She was a porn star?

She was unattractive. Therefore, I did not know who she was or what she was about.

Would she have been a Belieber?

She was definitely not a TERF. According to Martin Duberman's recent (2020) biography of her, she was a trans ally and believed in the social construction of gender.

Her psycho Dutch husband, Iwan de Bruin, was something else.