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And Just Like That Season 2: MORE CHE DIAZ, NOT LESS

Michael Patrick King ruins pride month.

Despite being met with a less-than-warm welcome in Season 1, the character of Che Diaz will not only return, but return bigger than ever, when HBO Max’s And Just Like That… serves up Season 2.

Grey’s Anatomy alum Sara Ramírez’s non-binary podcaster/stand-up comic character chopped it up with Carrie and eventually wooed Miranda during the Sex and the City follow-up’s freshman run, which premiered last December. At the close of Season 1, Che decamped to Los Angeles to shoot a TV pilot — with love interest Miranda in tow.

But if you had speculated that the nascent LGBTQ romance might sink as Che’s career soared, and the comic would not be seen again, think again.

“One of my burning passions about Season 2 is Che,” showrunner Michael Patrick King told our sister site Variety, as part of a Pride Month cover story. “I want to show the dimension of Che that people didn’t see, for whatever reason — because they were blinded, out of fear or terror. I want to show more of Che rather than less of Che. Like, really.”

King said he still marvels at how polarizing Che proved to be (see the TVLine poll below), noting that amid a vast TV landscape peppered with truly loathsome characters, “what everybody’s concerned about is a nonbinary stand-up comic in the present day.”

Ramírez also is familiar with, though purposely avoids immersing themself in, the backlash. Ramirez told the New York Times in February that they have been tuning out the “hate that exists online” regarding Che, adding, “I have to protect my own mental health and my own artistry. And that’s way more important to me because I’m a real human being. I’m really proud of the representation that we’ve created. We have built a character who is a human being, who is imperfect, who’s complex, who is not here to be liked, who’s not here for anybody’s approval. They’re here to be themselves.”

And in the new Variety piece, Ramírez says, “Other people’s opinions of a character — that’s not something I can allow into my process.”

“That’s the beauty of being grown — I don’t have to receive everything!” they note. “And this is Michael’s baby. He created this role. He wrote it. Those are his and his writing team’s jokes.”

Variety‘s cover story notes that the yet-to-be-scheduled second season of AJLT will pick up three weeks later, meaning Miranda and Che’s “great adventure” is still fresh and new. And thus not necessarily tested.

“It could be the biggest mistake [Miranda] ever made,” And Just Like That scribe Elisa Zuritsky previously told TVLine. “It could be a horrible betrayal of her role as a mother and a New Yorker. This is Miranda following her heart and not her head for the first time in her life.” But as such, it could also turn out to be “the greatest adventure she ever took.

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by Anonymousreply 77August 25, 2022 3:10 PM

Dear MPK: Che Diaz sucks because they're not funny and their entire personality is talking about sex and getting high.

by Anonymousreply 1June 1, 2022 5:15 PM

HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

by Anonymousreply 2June 1, 2022 5:17 PM

[quote] “I want to show the dimension of Che that people didn’t see, for whatever reason — because they were blinded, out of fear or terror."

Oh, [italic]honey... [/italic]

by Anonymousreply 3June 1, 2022 5:19 PM

I just want to see more of Che's hilarious comedy stylings.

Plus, more of her finger-banging!

by Anonymousreply 4June 1, 2022 5:19 PM

I'm genuinely surprised Ramirez wasn't like "nope!" to returning.

They're a good actor, but the writing was terrible.

by Anonymousreply 5June 1, 2022 5:22 PM

Well, we don't have to watch. I'm not going to. It's not the show I wanted to see nor is it even a particularly enjoyable production of a show I don't want to see.

by Anonymousreply 6June 1, 2022 5:23 PM

Has there ever been a writer that flipped off their audience more than MPK?

"You're all just haters!"

by Anonymousreply 7June 1, 2022 5:25 PM

Sorry to be late to this - but I thought everyone, critics included, hated Season 1. Why is there a Season 2?

by Anonymousreply 8June 1, 2022 5:33 PM

[quote]“I want to show the dimension of Che that people didn’t see, for whatever reason — because they were blinded, out of fear or terror.

I'm so Roxane Gay exhausted of people rationalizing their self-righteous annoying bullshit not being liked as just "fear!" It's not fear but just seeing it for the shallow, artificial, cliché piece of shit it is.

by Anonymousreply 9June 1, 2022 5:37 PM

R7 he's also implying that the fans are transphobic for objecting to the character, saying they are blinded out of fear/terror.

by Anonymousreply 10June 1, 2022 5:37 PM

[quote]“One of my burning passions about Season 2 is Che,” showrunner Michael Patrick King told our sister site Variety, as part of a Pride Month cover story.

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by Anonymousreply 11June 1, 2022 5:38 PM

Because morons such as myself still watched, R8. The show was a rating hit, I believe.

But if Che gets tons more screen time, I won't keep watching, I really hated them. Not because they're NB, but because they're a shitty character. I loved Seema Patel (Carrie's new bestie). Focus on her more.

by Anonymousreply 12June 1, 2022 5:38 PM

DL: zzzzzzzz..... Um. Wha? Sorry, OP. Were you saying something?

OP: And Just Like That Season 2: MORE

DL: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

by Anonymousreply 13June 1, 2022 5:39 PM

Could part of it be an idiotic strategy to get more people to watch because of the controversy? Oh, they're doubling down, maybe I will give it a look? It seems idiotic but we know who we're dealing with. I'm surprised they are antagonizing people. The numbers weren't really great after the first episode.

[quote]Has there ever been a writer that flipped off their audience more than MPK?

^ That says it all.

by Anonymousreply 14June 1, 2022 5:39 PM

[quote]“I want to show the dimension of Che that people didn’t see, for whatever reason — because they were blinded, out of fear or terror.

No, Dorothy Parker, you created an obnoxious character and Ramirez chewed the scenery with it... it's hard to reset that. Especially with the writing on this turkey.

by Anonymousreply 15June 1, 2022 5:40 PM

I thought that HBO MAX didn't relase ratings data?

Maybe there is a season 2 because everything was filmed all at once and they just broke it into separate seasons?

by Anonymousreply 16June 1, 2022 5:41 PM

R12 Same here. I was hate watching it but stopped at episode 6 not for any reason in particular other than I didn't have time to watch it. But I haven't felt a need to finish season 1 and doubt I'll watch season 2. I feel season 2 is going to have a huge drop-off in viewership.

HBO needs to focus on White Lotus. Now that was a good 5-6 threads here on DL.

by Anonymousreply 17June 1, 2022 5:42 PM

Eventually they'll get it right. When it gets canned, SJP will throw MPK overboard and reboot the reboot with a new creative team. The only death grip tighter than SJP's on Carrie is Glenn's on Norma Desmond.

by Anonymousreply 18June 1, 2022 5:45 PM

R18 I don't see that happening. If SJP was capable of that, she would've done it after the second movie. She's as blind as he is

by Anonymousreply 19June 1, 2022 5:54 PM

I really didn't mind the Che-Miranda relationship. I just don't want to hear any more Che speeches or "comedy" routines. Just deadly boring. More Seema, please. She's the one with potential.

by Anonymousreply 20June 1, 2022 6:08 PM

I feel no need for any more references to Samantha. She's gone. And lucky.

by Anonymousreply 21June 1, 2022 6:14 PM

Seema = Samantha … for the most part

by Anonymousreply 22June 1, 2022 6:23 PM

genuinely amazing to see the goddamn HOOPS that the AJLT team jump through to demonize a largely queer audience for hating che diaz instead of being even mildly introspective about why they were a bad character (and why miranda's arc overall was terrible)

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by Anonymousreply 23June 1, 2022 6:28 PM

The only fear or terror I experienced in watching Che was over xhir haircut.

by Anonymousreply 24June 1, 2022 6:30 PM

While artists should be free to create their art without the input of critics, sometimes you need to read the room. Che Diaz could be the most interesting character in the world (they aren't), but fans were always going to hate them for breaking up Miranda and Steve. You can't set up Steve as Miranda's endgame for an entire series and two movies and then bring in someone new after 20 years and be like, "just kidding, this new person is Miranda's true love." If they can make Che a more fully realized character (and not a caricature), that's great - but they should have always been a "friend of" and not a home wrecker if MPK wanted fans to embrace them.

by Anonymousreply 25June 1, 2022 6:41 PM

Who cares. The whole show's a turd.

by Anonymousreply 26June 1, 2022 6:48 PM

the actress was actually attractive when she still tried to pass as a female

by Anonymousreply 27June 1, 2022 6:51 PM

Sara Ramirez played a butch character on Madame Secretary and as far as I know, no one hated them.

And Callie Ramirez was a beloved bi/lesbian icon.

Maybe its your shitty writing, MPK

by Anonymousreply 28June 1, 2022 7:07 PM

No, r28: it's because we're AFRAID and TERRIFIED of the deep and meaningful TRUTHS he has to tell us!!!

by Anonymousreply 29June 1, 2022 8:05 PM

It's the new way. Woke can't be wrong, YOU'RE wrong. Unfortunately, I'll hate watch every minute of it.

by Anonymousreply 30June 1, 2022 10:04 PM

A show for boomer homos.

by Anonymousreply 31June 1, 2022 10:09 PM

I know she got torn a new asshole but Kim Cattrall continues to come off well everytime MPK speaks.

How is it possible the same man created The Comeback and this shitshow?

by Anonymousreply 32June 1, 2022 10:17 PM

Maybe Kudrow is a stronger character. Plus her show didn't have the same group of hack writers that drag down the SATC reboot or actresses gone wild with must-haves.

by Anonymousreply 33June 1, 2022 10:32 PM

Insufferable interview with Ramirez. Can no one read the room?

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by Anonymousreply 34June 2, 2022 8:47 PM

The only good thing about this show is that I stopped watching after episode 3, and that freed up time to rewatch Hannibal on Hulu.

by Anonymousreply 35June 2, 2022 9:40 PM

I never watched the original and I didn’t watch this. But I like looking in horror at the current clips where SJP looks like she’s morgue-ready. The show looks lame and desperate.

I did like her other show “Divorce”. She was fine in that.

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by Anonymousreply 36June 2, 2022 10:09 PM

The fucking idiots who watched this mess deserve it as punishment, honestly. Enjoy, you dumbasses!!!

by Anonymousreply 37June 2, 2022 10:20 PM

I wish they’d write this so that Miranda follows her heart while not looking like a completely pathetic fuck.

by Anonymousreply 38June 3, 2022 2:36 PM

The audience for another season will be a fraction of what season one was.

So many of us tuned in too see what happened to their characters and then stuck around hoping against hope it would improve.

It didn't and it won't, and that audience won't subject themselves to that torture again.

by Anonymousreply 39June 3, 2022 11:30 PM

I am very progressive-minded, but when we get to the point where ANY criticism about a character is blamed on transphobia and "fear," we've gone too far in that direction. Che is ANNOYING AS HELL and acts like a teenage boy. Che is also profoundly unfunny and we were subjected to watching some of their standup comedy in the show that was cringe-worthy.

Miranda is very intelligent--why would she think an adult acting like a teenage boy is hot? Let's give Miranda a little more credit than to run off with an immature, unfunny person who just happens to be nonbinary.

We should be able to critique bad writing. This was really bad writing.

by Anonymousreply 40June 3, 2022 11:48 PM

I don't blame Sara Ramirez. They are playing a role and have proven to be a good actor in other shows. The fault lies with MPK, SJP and, to a lesser extent, Cynthia Nixon

by Anonymousreply 41June 4, 2022 12:21 AM

R41 I don't have a problem with Sara as an actor or person, either--they're fine. I just think Che was a horribly written character. Seema's character and the friend of Charlotte, although token characters, were written far more intelligently. It's weird that they wrote Che to stick out like a sore thumb personality-wise.

by Anonymousreply 42June 4, 2022 12:27 AM

Che feels so dated, her whole shtick would have been exciting in the 80s. No one feels “threatened,” I feel bored. I agree Sarita choudury’s character is great and should be developed more.

by Anonymousreply 43June 4, 2022 12:35 AM

r43 I thought the same about Che. Her whole persona of being unique and special and stunning and brave because...........she's same-sex attracted? In NYC in the year 2022 this is hardly noteworthy. It definitely felt like something out of the 80s.

And like the above poster said, watching a woman (yes, WOMAN) who is pushing 50 years old acting like a teenager was ridiculous. Grow the fuck up, you're almost 50! Nobody could give a fuck that you smoke weed everywhere you go.

by Anonymousreply 44June 4, 2022 1:33 AM

YAWN!

by Anonymousreply 45June 4, 2022 2:29 AM

I don't know who sounds more insufferable, MPK or Sara??

by Anonymousreply 46June 4, 2022 12:44 PM

This brings me to a pet peeve: when a performer dies and costars gush about how they were “the sweetest, kindest person, ever.”

Now, Dolly Parton (and this isn’t gonna go downhill) once said in an interview that she looks for wallflowers at parties and goes up to chat with them, because they’re alone and uncomfortable and people are ignoring them. If she indeed does this, it IS incredibly sweet and kind.

But I was in a theater troupe with Willie Garson in the mid to late 90s and when I met him at events he was a little bit cool, if anything. He wasn’t incredibly sweet and kind in any way I could ever see. Not that anyone NEEDS to be that way… it just bugs me when people are described that way across the board rather than within a particular relationship.

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by Anonymousreply 47June 4, 2022 7:33 PM

MPK being friends with Gregg Araki explains a lot. Both love the idea more than the execution. He and the rest of their circle filled MPK’s head with the ‘blinded by fear and terror’ crap.

by Anonymousreply 48June 5, 2022 2:53 AM

[Quote] MPK being friends with Gregg Araki explains a lot. Both love the idea more than the execution. He and the rest of their circle filled MPK’s head with the ‘blinded by fear and terror’ crap.

I would take a season 2 of Now Apocalypse over this.

by Anonymousreply 49June 5, 2022 7:33 AM

When this news first broke I posted that I wasn't going to watch it, if this is what they're going to do. And I realize today, I'm really not going to watch it. It will not be entertaining - I like Seema and LTW but I no longer care or am interested in the characters of the girls. I do look forward to you guys savaging it, though, and will read that weekly.

by Anonymousreply 50June 5, 2022 12:23 PM

It isn't JUST Che Diaz that I hated. Kristin's face, and her character's kid's gender journey were also too much. Anthony, at least, injected a little sanity, and I was never a fan of his during the show itself, or the terrible movies.

by Anonymousreply 51June 5, 2022 1:40 PM

If they got rid of Che, there would be no non-binary Latinx representation on the show, and millions of non-binary Latinx children and young adults would kill themselves, so MPK and SJP would have blood on their hands.

They had no choice but to keep they.

by Anonymousreply 52June 5, 2022 2:20 PM

They’re just doing a second season out of courtesy. No one wants it. SJP needs serious therapy. She simply cannot let go of this character/world/attention.

by Anonymousreply 53August 17, 2022 6:21 AM

I read the Variety interview. Sara seems like a very gentle and decent person with a pretty good sense of humour about things.

But their casting in this role was a mistake. I could see them as a friend of the women, and Carrie gently teasing Che about the standup and Che giving Carrie shit back etc. But as a sexually dynamic love interest it’s not working. Because the actress isn’t hot, and because the characterisation is awful, from the constant public weed smoking onward.

by Anonymousreply 54August 17, 2022 6:41 AM

Sara Ramirez is a human female and there is only one of her so SHE is the proper pronoun. Che doesn't exist, thank fucking god.

by Anonymousreply 55August 17, 2022 6:59 AM

Didn't realize that Sara R was married to a man for a decade.

by Anonymousreply 56August 17, 2022 7:26 AM

R54 I don't think Sara is ugly but she looks better with long hair, like on Grey's.

by Anonymousreply 57August 18, 2022 1:16 AM

I have no interest in washed up middle aged hags and the its they are attracted to. Not worth the money to me !

by Anonymousreply 58August 18, 2022 2:20 AM

Sara R has a fug fat face.

by Anonymousreply 59August 18, 2022 2:52 AM

Which is the biggest stinker this or Queer as Woke? Should Kim be happy about this?

by Anonymousreply 60August 18, 2022 2:27 PM

R60 haven’t seen QAF remake but Cattrall is probably laughing as she watches the SATC reboot. Her presence was sorely missed because she was the confident, brash, and funny woman on the show. They tried to replace her with I guess Che, who is immature and not funny, and it has failed terribly.

by Anonymousreply 61August 18, 2022 2:50 PM

Che's comedy show was one of the greatest hatewatch moments ever in television. She's so unfunny and irritatingly woke, and yet her audience is just wild with enthusiasm.

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by Anonymousreply 62August 18, 2022 3:41 PM

I blame Cynthia Nixon. The original idea was for her to have an affair with the hot black professor. But after the budget was adjusted for the lifts and pulleys needed to raise her breasts to fit on screen, they had to settle for a finger fuck with Che

by Anonymousreply 63August 18, 2022 4:43 PM

It's funny... I hate CN on And Nothing Like Before and like her a lot on The Gilded Age. It's kind of fun to see her playing a fairly cliche, limited part, but actually getting some mileage out of it. And I adore her various sympathies encased in 1880s foundation garments. It burns! It burns! It pays....

by Anonymousreply 64August 18, 2022 6:50 PM

Cynthia turned the show into a woke joke. Good luck with season two, gworl.

by Anonymousreply 65August 24, 2022 4:37 AM

It would have worked better if they’d used Sara as a lipstick lez. Sara’s beautiful and they should have gone that direction. The producers tried too hard and it failed.

by Anonymousreply 66August 24, 2022 4:45 AM

Has this garbage series started filming the second season yet?

Pretty sure Cynthia will have her former campaign manager's daughter on board as a 'stylist', as she did for the first series. The dizzy stylist's nickname on the set was 'nepotism stylist'. The woman doesn't know a damn thing about styling anything. Guess she was there to iron clothing and bring Cynthia her refreshments!

by Anonymousreply 67August 24, 2022 5:09 AM

If anyone had to date Che, it should have been the widow Carrie. MPK is an ass for not realizing what messing up and minimizing one of the main couples would do to the show. Veronica Mars producers did the same to their show. Astonishing levels of disdain for the audience.

by Anonymousreply 68August 24, 2022 6:38 AM

Or they could have killed off Harry or Steve and done it that way. Fans of the show didn’t want to see Steve treated as a disposable mistake.

by Anonymousreply 69August 24, 2022 6:53 AM

I'd rather watch reruns of ALF.

by Anonymousreply 70August 24, 2022 8:52 AM

Cynthia is leading the death of the patriarchy. Kill off or get rid of all male characters. Who needs them when your they/them lesbian partner can squirt semen into your vag. She’s a fucked up woman. Truly.

by Anonymousreply 71August 24, 2022 11:49 AM

[quote]Fans of the show didn’t want to see Steve treated as a disposable mistake.

That's it. He and Harry and Smith were the only decent, straightforward men in the history of the show. In the end, people don't watch a show like Sex and the City for anything other than fantasy and a happy ending. That's entertainment. I wonder if MPK and the rest of the writers, even at their advanced ages, still live shallow, shambolic lives where the girls are proxies for their fucked up frames of reference? The writing and the acting are not good enough to relaunch as drama. They should have stuck to light comedy.

by Anonymousreply 72August 24, 2022 11:55 AM

I still have a small hope that this will get canceled or massively retooled (bye, Che!) by the bloodthirsty new HBO overlords.

by Anonymousreply 73August 24, 2022 12:00 PM

Never thought I'd post these words here, but "This is why they hate us."

What kind of doctor dresses like this in public?

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by Anonymousreply 74August 25, 2022 4:41 AM

[quote]We have built a character who is a human being, who is imperfect, who’s complex, who is not here to be liked, who’s not here for anybody’s approval.

Mission accomplished.

by Anonymousreply 75August 25, 2022 5:56 AM

I'm. with R73. There's a new sheriff in town at. HBO Max and hopefully they're actually listening to the audience.

And that quote at R75 - was that MPK? - was as smug, self-satisfied and arrogant as any I've ever heard. If he thinks forcing a character the audience despises down their throats is the ticket to success, he's out of his mind.

by Anonymousreply 76August 25, 2022 2:41 PM

Wasn't Miranda supposed to have a kid or two?

Or is this like "Everybody Loves Raymond," where the adults spend entire episodes apart from their kids?

by Anonymousreply 77August 25, 2022 3:10 PM
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