Gender-neutral bathrooms

My country has mostly gender neutral bathrooms and, let me tell you, It's No Big Deal. Nobody rapes no one.

What is the big deal? We all have to pee. Just in different ways. Maybe someday we can all pee together.

[quote]It’s likely that many people who oppose gender-neutral bathrooms and locker rooms don’t know a trans person personally, they said.

It's likely those who favor gender-neutral bathrooms and locker rooms don't know any real NON-trans people. They certainly don't know young girls and teenagers. Or they don't care.

Of course, no comments allowed by the LA Times because they know the overwhelming people do not agree with this.

and they person they go to is one of those who runs a GSA Club - Gender-Sexuality Club - the ones that invite kids to attend after school and don't tell them what they're about or tell the parents.

The LA Times is as bad as the WaPo when it comes to trans propaganda.

My niece's high school has some gender neutral bathrooms. Her female friend was alone in one when a bunch of boys started banging on the door and looking under it.

Their statement to the principal and her parents: "They were just joking around and she shouldn't take it so seriously."

Do real females want to smell man shit?

It’s a culture clash. Girls use bathrooms together to take a break from guys sometimes. Can you imagine guys trying to pick up girls in the bathroom?

^^^ No. Ewww. We don't want them in our bathrooms. Boys are gross. And they love love love to humiliate girls. Did anyone even go to school?

I think I'd have trouble 'letting go' with a female or trans sitting on the commode next to me. With men it's like, 'Hey we're all guys and it's a bodily function and so what?'.

We call these bathrooms for one person.

Would I what?

[quote] Nobody rapes no one.

So you’re saying that do rape people.

Female restrooms are always a million times dirtier than men’s.

[quote]The most commonly voiced concern these days against communal, all-gender bathrooms is that students — particularly girls — will be harassed or assaulted by the opposite sex. This belief has roots in the historical argument that trans people are the ones to be feared in bathrooms, advocates told me. But that’s a perspective that wouldn’t be well-received in a politically progressive and LGBTQ-friendly city like Long Beach.

The belief that women will be assaulted by men does not have its roots in the belief that trans people should be feared.

Men have been assaulting women forever, including at the LA Times.

And of course this being a school bathroom means girls will be having their period for the first time so will need privacy to deal with that. And seeing as everyone has a phone they can record anything on, just let girls have their own space.

We had Gender Neutral bathrooms long before this whole trans movement. They were call Men's restrooms. It's where women who didn't feel like they didn't want to wait in line for their own bathrooms would just barge into a Men's room proclaiming it's an emergency. Never mind that some guys might be in there with their cocks out over a urinal. Never mind that they could have barged into the women's restroom the same way. Now all of a sudden it upsets them that they might have to wait for a man to come out of a gender neutral bathroom before they can go in.

[...]

R3 with the transphobic bullshit.

They're not great if you want to avoid your former fiancé who works at your same firm or if you have to decide which miniskirt is best for court.

But if you're having visions of dancing babies, there's no better place to hide than a gender-neutral restroom.

They introduced gender neutral bathrooms at my work place. Consists of 4 completely enclosed mini-rooms in a row, each with their own basin/hand dryer - so no issues with privacy at all. It's a bit startling to bump into a male colleague there when arriving or leaving, but I'm used to it now. Sorry but I have noticed that men tend to be messier. It's common to find a toilet seat left up with pee all over the rim and sometimes unflushed. I tend to avoid those. Must admit, I preferred the gender specific facilities, but gender neutral isn't so bad, certainly isn't unsafe and it does solve a problem for the trans/gender fluid/non-binary folks.

How many "trans/gender fluid/non-binary folks" exist at your work place r18?

Datalounge 2022, still trying to make bathrooms an issue.

R19 I work on a large university campus, so quite a few....

[...]

[quote]Felix says: "I'm worried that if I go in the girls bathroom they will be like 'Oh, why is there a boy in the girls' bathroom? And if I go in the boys' bathroom they'll do the opposite thing and be like 'Oh, why is there a girl in the boys' bathroom?' And if I go in the disabled bathroom then I feel like I am taking it from other people who need it more than I do.

I doubt most kids really care which bathroom this child uses, but there are clearly safeguarding issues with a 12 year old female going into a private space used by boys and also the dignity issues of when Felix starts having periods, if she's not already dosed up on puberty blockers.

R22 - do I think it's fair to scatter a few gender neutral bathrooms around the campus, one of which happens to be near my office, so that people can use them without fear of some sort of drama.....sure I do. If I really objected, I could walk further round the building to a female only facility.

[...]

The absolutely insane thing about the opposition to gender neutral bathrooms is the fact their the norm in conservative Eastern European countries. I was shocked when I visited Serbia and Romania, and rarely (if ever) saw male or female bathrooms. Also, in Germany (where I currently live) it isn’t uncommon for a cleaning woman to walk into a bathroom being used by men, and women will use a stall in the male bathroom of the wait is too long.

Despite my skepticism of most things related to the whole transgender issue, I welcome the fact it’s getting us away from a rather silly concept.

R25 = typical DL transphobic lunatic.

"Demetri is gender fluid, meaning [bold]their gender identity[/bold] is not fixed and [bold]can change[/bold] over time or [bold]from day-to-day[/bold]."

R25 - gender neutral bathrooms aren't 'made for them', they are for everyone to use, that's the whole point. So long as there remain some gender specific facilities for people who are uncomfortable with the idea of shared (which it sounds like you are), then all seems to work well. No drama I'm aware of.

Why is this an issue in 2022? We did this back in 1997.

I have no issue with gender neutral bathrooms if they provide privacy and safety for everyone, but some of the arguments used against women bringing up safety issues can easily be used against trans people themselves. From the article, for example:

[quote]At the end of the day, the safety issue is a moot point, said Rodrigo Heng-Lehtinen, executive director of National Center for Transgender Equality. If students are being harassed in bathrooms, that’s a school-climate issue, not a gender issue.

“Harassment is still illegal in a gender-neutral facility,” he said. “Protections and norms around acceptable behavior still apply.”

That can be easily said to a trans or gender fluid person who doesn't want to use a sex-segregated bathroom.

Should locker rooms and showers be gender neutral? Even in Germany where the sauna is neutral the shower and changing room are not. Nor are most toilets. The reason: The commode uses more water and the urinal uses less.

We have one at our gym.

If we enter and see the fish stall occupied, or a fish also entering, we flee immediately!

Not a fan.

Michelle only First Lady who pee standing up.

All of the steam rooms in 24 hour Fitness in Los Angeles are now co-ed. They closed all of them that were inside the locker rooms and built new ones out by the pool so everyone can share and see into them with a glass door. So basically no one uses them now except fat old fish in one piece plus size bathing suites.

How original, R35.

Melania's husband knows all about pee, doesn't he?

My dorm had a co-Ed bathroom. In 1991. Nobody really had an issue and definitely no incidents. Although it was an upperclass dorm so more maturity.

If it's a single room with only one stall I don't mind much, I prefer separated toilets though. You can tell a man off for loitering before the women's restroom, too.

R25 no, probably R24 just wants to keep his or her job.

How do urinals work in such spaces? Do women see the backs of the guys standing there pissing? Seems it would be expensive and take up too much floor space to build an enclosed space. If there aren’t urinals you’re going to use a lot of water flushing the toilet after every pee. I thought we I’m the Western states need to conserve water.

As long as it gets a good cleaning by gender neutral janitorial staff

[quote]How do urinals work in such spaces? Do women see the backs of the guys standing there pissing? Seems it would be expensive and take up too much floor space to build an enclosed space. If there aren’t urinals you’re going to use a lot of water flushing the toilet after every pee. I thought we I’m the Western states need to conserve water.

In my local arts complex they knocked the male and female toilets together to make 1 gender neutral bathroom and one extra disabled space with baby changing facilities.

The men's had 6 open urinals and 3 cubicles, the women's had 6 cubicles. The one space has 8 sit down toilets and 2 urinals all of which are in cubicles. So from 15 toilets to 10.

No. There's a reason for single sex bathrooms. Women have needs. They have the right to feel safe.

I don’t care but I’m sure some sexual predator or perv would ruin it.

[quote] norm in conservative Eastern European countries

Well that's a compelling argument. LOL!

Every place should just have Tony single bathrooms problem solved

There has always been a disparity in the number of toilets in traditional (gendered) restrooms, and if you think about it for a nanosecond, you can see that urinals are smaller and take up less room, and men have the advantage of not having to pull down their pants and sit to pee, so are therefor quicker. In an office I worked in throughout the 90s, there were two restrooms on our floor and the women's room was always occupied and with a line if there was anything going on in the office. I can't tell you the number of times I would be the last man in the men's room and when I came out, the women standing there needing to go would ask me to stand guard while three or four of them went in and used the toilet. Fortunately we were all professionals so there was rarely a piss-on-the-floor or covering-the-toilet-seat problem.

[quote]should have toilets/bathrooms made for them?

We've built toilets everywhere for another class of people to use and we've even admitted "if I go in the disabled bathroom then I feel like I am taking it from other people who need it". Single-person restrooms are an acceptable accommodation in my book.

I understand the fears that women have regarding men (biologically or conceptually aside) using their single-gendered restrooms. The solution is to have three or more restrooms clearly marked. We're not talking about having to retrofit every building in America (the world?); and when they're designing new buildings the added cost of a couple of additional walls and plumbing is trivial. A third of all men's rooms could be converted to gender-neutral and there would be little impact on use or wait times.

The bottom line is that if we remove the whole trans-gendered issue and look at this from a logistical point of view, it makes sense. But be respectful of people suffering gender dysphoria and you'd think the world was crashing down around our ankles. Or at least the piss.

We don't want to be in the same room as men. Tiny cubicles still in the same room with the opposite SEX is not acceptable. Not in a school or workplace especially. Women do other things that they feel safe and comfortable doing in front of women they wouldn't in f/o men.

If you need any more proof that men rule this fucking world and dominate women look no further than men determining that women don't need the privacy of female only spaces like women's restrooms and women's changing/locker rooms. They are completely ignorant of the needs of women. Another exhibit that trans don't know shit about the opposite sex. And don't give a shit about them.

It's no big deal for men. It's a big deal for women.

R26 Romania probably can't afford to build separate bathrooms.

I lived in Nigeria years ago, and there weren't any public restrooms at all.

R49, the locker room is a bigger issue than the restroom. There is no privacy in a gym locker room. Restroom stalls, fortunately many places that aren’t big department stores only have two toilets, which are full rooms, not just stalls. They just change the signs so that either toilet is available for the next person in line. This has already happened in my neighborhood and doesn’t seem controversial. I think dads like it too because then they get access to changing tables for their babies, which traditionally were only in women’s rooms.

My frustrated teenage self would sneak peaks while changing and showering in the lockerroom.

People are deluded if they think people won't and don't do that.

If I were a Frau, I'd much rather deal with a trans girl or even a drag queen using the female washroom every once in a blue moon, than cis men using the same toilet on a daily basis. Simply to every trans person out there ; there are probably some 250 cis guys, and let me tell you, they piss all over the place and make male washrooms very stinky and unpleasant. Trannies probably sit down.

R54, bathrooms are considered private enough that a lot of places a male employee will come into a women’s room to change the trash bag. They’ll apologize but it isn’t really shocking. There isn’t a complete expectation of privacy outside the stall. Locker rooms are really a much bigger issue.

[quote] If you need any more proof that men rule this fucking world and dominate women look no further than men determining that women don't need the privacy of female only spaces like women's restrooms and women's changing/locker rooms.

Who says men are making these decisions? Seems unlikely.

I understand R55, bur I still imagine male washrooms as a lot dirtier and unpleasant when compared to female ones, even though luckily there are no used sanitary pads disposed in the trash bins of male toilets.

I remember as a child using the female washrooms until the age of 8, and they weren't as smelly or as covered in pee as the male ones are.

*but

R56, for the restroom, I think women are on board for the most part. For the locker room, no.

"Trans tell us that they make up less than one percent of the population"

But as more gay bottoms and bull dykes discover that they are actually the opposite sex, the need will increase.

[quote] There isn’t a complete expectation of privacy outside the stall.

There IS an expectation of privacy when you exit a stall. You are usually still fixing your clothes etc. There is only so much room in those stalls and you want to get out because they aren't sanitary.

And, no. most women are not on board with losing Women's Bathrooms.

[quote]There IS an expectation of privacy when you exit a stall. You are usually still fixing your clothes etc. There is only so much room in those stalls and you want to get out because they aren't sanitary. And, no. most women are not on board with losing Women's Bathrooms.

A lot of woman and girls who have complained about this make it clear it's not just about peeing, it's about attending to their periods, including washing the blood off their fingers and occasionally their bloody underwear in the sink.

R21, you work in a large university campus yet there is only one bathroom facility with only four toilet units on that whole campus?

R54, if it is legally stipulated that every "trans girl or even a drag queen" can use the women's bathrooms even if it's just once in a while, then that gives every "cis man" the legal right to use the same toilet on a daily basis.

R26, I've never been to Serbia but I've been to Romania and you're talking shit about the toilets there.

It's ok if an actual employee of the opposite sex cleans the toilets out for 10 minutes. They are legally documented as entering that toilet facility and it's known exactly who they are and what they are doing. That's not the same as giving every man the right to walk into the women's toilets or changing room or shower room whenever he wants.

Women perform tasks like hairstyling, making up, and changing clothes in the Women’s Room. As well, men don’t have a menstrual cycle.

[quote] A lot of woman and girls who have complained about this make it clear it's not just about peeing, it's about attending to their periods, including washing the blood off their fingers and occasionally their bloody underwear in the sink.

Yea, thanks for putting that out there. For some reason I resisted telling it like it is.

Men - whatever you THINK you are - are not welcome in Female bathrooms.

Serbia and Romania! Are there even toilets there? Or holes in the floor with the water hose?

R62, speaking as a woman, it would not bother me. I think the specific issue previously came up in polling and it doesn’t bother most women if someone who feels unsafe in a men’s room uses a women’s room. That includes feminine gay men; to me, I wouldn’t mind. Men have less privacy in their bathroom, which is a problem because it could lead to kind of “what are you looking at?” kinds of attacks from straight men at the urinal. It’s a legitimate safety issue. Of course that could also be helped by creating more privacy in men’s rooms. I do feel like the locker room is a much different situation. The problem is being made worse because of increasing political divisions - and in my opinion it’s because in some cases people are chemically and surgically mimicking intersex conditions, and thinking that’s it’s a good idea to physically and surgically mimic intersex conditions in kids. It’s erasing the existence of actual intersex people, who will still have these needs regardless of what happens with the trans women who don’t have surgery, are attracted to women, and have lived for some portion of their lives identifying as straight men with a fetish. Hormones cause heart attacks in older men, cancer in older women, early death in athletes, osteoporosis and pain in girls with precocious puberty. Studies from outside the field of transitioning would suggest they aren’t harmless. And the language around transitioning is wishful thinking- that you change yourself to become true self. That’s not an objective way to talk about something that has now become a part of mainstream medicine and pediatric medicine.

I’ll guess I have to get used to making fart noises and shit smells in the stall in the presence of women I work with and vice versa with hearing and smelling lady farts. Somehow it seems undignified but that’s progress. It’s embarrassing enough when it’s just guys in the room. Call me old fashioned.

To quote Selina Meyer "Who gives a shit where people shit".

I would rather pee in the woods than pee next to a man!

The gender-neutral bathroom in Ally McBeal at R30 was ahead of its time. So were the gender-neutral showers in Starship Troopers and the Australian and European Big Brother houses.

My dorm had a gender-neutral bathroom and showers. I was always uncomfortable going into a stall while girls were brushing their teeth at the sink. They could see my feet and I could see them through the slits in the door. And they could see me through the wide slits too. I always had to go to the gym to use the restroom.

[quote]How do urinals work in such spaces?

There's a trendy restaurant I go to in Santa Monica. One bathroom, with 3 or 4 sinks set an an angle with a steeped walls so you don't have to stare at the person next to you, opposite of that a row of 3 doors which are private toilets with dividers floor to ceiling and 3 more narrower doors with just a single urinal in each one. They all lock and have little LED green or red lights by the handle to indicate if they are in use.

R75, and how is female safety addressed after exiting a stall?

Does the potential exist for a woman to find herself alone in an enclosed room with a male stranger? How is that addressed?

Well, the stalls lock, so when she leaves the stall she's basically in a semi public place where the mirrors and sinks are. The main door to that part does not have a lock, its just for looks anyone can walk in or out. It's just so people seated in the main room don't have to stare straight into the washroom, probably the safest place you could be. I have seen other similar setups where after exiting the stall, the main wash place is completely open with just a sort of island high privacy wall in case you don't want people to see you doing your thing in front of a mirror.

So yeah, very safe and private for all. The only thing lost is Fraus cant use the bathroom as their private chat room anymore.

R77, so the answer is "no".

R77, all you had to say was that female safety wasn't addressed.

R77, why would you want to share a bathroom with Fraus? Seriously, why?

I will NEVER EVER be ok being forced to share a public restroom with females. It's disgusting. I dont care if the random trans man uses it or whatever. But men and women should be separated for certain things. It's just gross.

R77, are you a man? You don't like having a rest room just for men? Why?

Because we don’t have separate dining rooms for men and women when we go out to eat. That’s outdated. So is separate bathrooms and showers. Step into this century, old queens.

R83, men have never cared that bathroom facilities are separate. Not at all.

Better to be an old queen than a young freak.

[quote]I will NEVER EVER be ok being forced to share a public restroom with females. It's disgusting.

You need to be arrested.

R83 can't tell the difference between open, public spaces where women are with people they know and enclosed spaces where they could find themselves alone with a creepy stranger.

If men and women start sharing toilet facilities, more women will discover the disgusting fact that men rarely wash their hands after peeing or shitting and men will be confronted with the fact that they're dirty pigs.

GOOD! Then maybe some good could cum out of this as women can nag and police the men to wash their hands and behave. Shame them.

Awful idea.

When I'm taking my afternoon buddy dump with the frat brothers in the dorm's public bathroom, I don't need some filthy cunt in one of the other stalls putting in her fuckin' tampon. I don't need some stupid slit ruining bro bonding time.

R79, nothing is ever completely safe. Nothing stops male employees from going into the ladies room to change a trash bag at the local CVS or Walgreens, places that aren’t usually packed with people where the single stall in the ladies room is probably unoccupied 90 percent of the time. Outside the stall, opening the door would reveal you to anyone standing near the door outside, so logically, you know going in that anything while you’re standing at the sink is not private. As someone pointed out previously, people who look gender ambiguous are already using the bathroom they feel more comfortable with and no one notices. Or, at the small office I work in, none of the bathrooms are labeled as anything; they are just bathrooms, the same as you’d have in your house. If someone was going to engage in predatory behavior they could do it more easily after a woman exits the CVS into a parking lot at night, rather than in a well lit area where anyone else who came in at random would see a guy trying to look under the stall or through the gap in the door. But again, locker rooms are different. I don’t think the unisex bathroom issue is really controversial, especially if they’re well done and well made.

Just no. I’ve always hated the gender-neutral facilities in some Euro countries.

Why don’t American bathrooms have floor to ceiling doors or ones that have very small gaps? I am constantly reading about people looking over and under doors,

No more meetin’ in the ladies’ room

Seriously though this idea seems counter to the hyper vigilance of sexual harassment in the culture now. There seems a lot of potential for abuse in shared spaces by pervy straight men (leaving trans out of the equation). One woman in the john alone with one man could get a little creepy.

I can SHIT anywhere but women don't like it when I really have to SHIT...smells like DEATH!! Actually, I have chased women(and a few men) out of a gender-neutral bathroom with the smell.

"Because we don’t have separate dining rooms for men and women when we go out to eat. "

I'd pay extra for that, just so I wouldn't have to listen to groups of women cackle and SHREIK. I was at lunch last weekend where there were two table of bachelorettes, and the noise was deafening.

Do most of you have mens and womens rooms on your homes? So silly-

Complete strangers and potential predators never use my toilet at home, r97. It's also a single unit in my house, not lots of booths in a strange place.

Almost all places of business with which I work now use gender-neutral bathrooms.

The best situations for schools is to have male, female and gender-neutral restrooms with a lock (for which teachers and staff have the key for students to use).

For younger students, whatever the situation, adults should monitor the restrooms to ensure appropriate behavior (and habits) are encouraged and enforced.

I had a twin sister and never understood "boys" and "girls" rooms, when it was obvious the girls always were in a line while the boys breezed through (peeing all over the floor and walls making it go so much faster for boys).

American Puritanism all in this thread.

"I can't be in the same room where some vag was wagging it's lips! And my dong was flopping around for 45 seconds in the same air!"

GROSS, COOTIES!

I teach at a liberal arts college and they're all over campus. It's no big deal to use them.

[quote] Complete strangers and potential predators never use my toilet at home, [R97].

You're no fun anymore!

[quote] Do real females want to smell man shit?

You mean as opposed to female shit?

Everybody poops.

I'm so fascinated by those of you who seem to think women take shits that don't smell.

It’s not about cooties, it’s about bonding and having space to perform private activities that are discouraged in public space.

I first read this thread topic as gender-neutral bottoms and I clicked on it because I was intrigued at what could be going on in this thread.

[quote] It’s not about cooties, it’s about bonding and having space to perform private activities that are discouraged in public space.

Well, now you can bond across the gender spectrum. What could be more inclusive and progressive than that?

R99, and you don't think teens need a monitor in mixed-sex school bathrooms?

Isn't that what led to the rape in a Virginia school that cost the Democrats a governor?

R99, was your twin bathroom allowed to lock the door of the bathroom in your home? Or could you breeze in whenever?

Why would you need locks? She’s my twin. We’ve seen each other naked, we were born naked together, we took baths naked together.

One of the main problems here is the conflation of two different bathroom types:

1. the single use bathroom which anyone can use, and lock the door. Historically, these were set up as two separate rooms with two separate doors, and one says men, and the other says women. Then they changed it to "Gender Neutral Restroom", which is kind of silly and performative. These bathrooms should ALWAYS have just said "RESTROOM", and anyone can use it and lock the door. That accounts for many types of publc restrooms, and these facilities get lumped in with the group style restrooms.

2. the group restroom, which has historically said men or women. there are two separate larger rooms, where men can go in to theirs, and use a urinal or a toilet, or where women can go in and use the toilet (there are typically more toilets in the women's room since space has been freed up by there being no urinals). THIS type of bathroom indeed needs to be debated as to whether or not the gender should be neutralized, and there are good arguments against combining genders for these, as has been said above.

The conflation here is part of the problem I think.

That said, I went into a group restroom which was labeled gender neutral quite recently, and there were men and women in line for this. There were urinals and stalls, and everyone waited in line, and it was no big deal. But, this was at a neighborhood small movie theater in Oakland CA. In my mind, with this environment, it was easy to rationalize shared use. It just took a bit of getting used to, and some novelty was involved. Women were walking by me while I was peeing in the urinal, and it was odd to me. But yes, I lived, and it was kind of a liberating experience, actually.

But that's not to say that all group bathrooms need to be converted to this. There are indeed certain environments where the controls are not fully in place, and the crowds are from a more broad spectrum. I can see women feeling unsafe in a shared bathroom when at a nightclub, especially when there is alcohol and likely drugs in play.

I agree with my brother at R110. We shared everything.

[quote] Women were walking by me while I was peeing in the urinal, and it was odd to me.

Gross! I would be so uncomfortable having women watch me pee in a urinal. If there are no dividers, they can see your dick.

I am fine with gender-neutral bathroom if the bathroom is designed for one person at a time--meaning there is no one else in the bathroom with you.

However, I am not all fine and entirely disagree with a gender-neutral bathroom if there are more than one person or multiple people in the bathroom at the same time. Sorry, NO. I don't want women in the bathroom with me while I'm standing at the urinal pissing.

R41, what often happens is the group restrooms for men and for women don't change at all, they just change the signage. So, what used to be a men's room with urinals and stalls is now open season for both genders. So yes, in those situations, a guy using a urinal will have a woman waiting in line nearby to use the next available stall...and in what used to be a women's room, you'll have a line that includes men, who are forced to use a stall even if they have to pee.

How does a guy protect himself from potential accusations from females that he is acting inappropriately in the bathroom?

I never understood the sexualization of bathrooms anyway. I can understand enjoying looking at a guy peeing and checking out his dick... But it doesn't go beyond that. I can't get aroused in a place where people shit, and I don't understand how anybody does.

I wouldn’t care but I would feel bad for women because the men’s toilet seats are disgusting.

It’s great because now women can pee in urinals too whereas before they wouldn’t get the chance. Amazon sells this device like a Mooncup that lets women pee standing up.

[quote] Because we don’t have separate dining rooms for men and women when we go out to eat.

LMAO! YEA! And we don't have separate roads for men and women to drive on. So THERE!!

From hearing women talk, the ladies room is often worse than the men's room.

Given a choice, no, I'd choose the room for my own sex.

If it's a place where the only choice is "gender neutral," then that's there's no choice to make. Certainly it makes sense in small facilities, and can make sense in newly designed facilities (much less in retrofitting.)

Ripping apart buildings to regender/ungender toilets is crazy, costly, results in fewer toilets and urinals, and gives license to a small but not insignificant group of dangerous creeps to target people.

For what (little) it's worth, when I worked as a barman I was expected to inspect the toilets at the end of the night -- the women's was ALWAYS much, much more disgusting than the men's.

[quote][R77], all you had to say was that female safety wasn't addressed.

It was addressed, you just dont like the answer. You have a locking stall door. Why do you need extra security out in public? The sinks and mirrors are public. Do you need a security guard at your dinner table too? They are men around SHOCK!!!!

R119 = Caitlyn Jenner.

[quote]"Because we don’t have separate dining rooms for men and women when we go out to eat. "

In Dubai they do. They even have a mall where woman and men are supposed to stay on completely separate levels with separate entrances. Even Starbucks there has separate lounge area.

^^^ I don't believe you. Men have a different sense of what is disgusting and what is not disgusting.

[quote] In Dubai they do. They even have a mall where woman and men are supposed to stay on completely separate levels with separate entrances. Even Starbucks there has separate lounge area

Who knew Dubai was so progressive and ahead of its time. Brava! Would definitely put it on my vacay list.

R123, maybe because the women got more intoxicated/vomited more? I could see that being a problem at a bar. In women’s rooms I see some messes being made by germophobes, exacerbated by the availability of paper toilet seat covers. The people who use them are too afraid of germs to dispose of them. They leave them on the seat, part dipped into the toilet water, and then don’t flush because they’re afraid to touch the handle, so the whole mess is really offputting to clean up as just the next in line in the bathroom, not an employee equipped with gloves. I do it anyway. Fortunately hardly anyone uses those. Also small kids use the women’s room and could make a mess.

[quote] Fortunately hardly anyone uses those.

People generally don’t use toilet seat covers?!?

A gender neutral bathroom, is just a bathroom with a toilet, sink and a door you can lock. There is often a changing table and a smaller urinal.. This is for individuals, men with babies, the disabled and others who feel more safer in an individual bathroom.

A gender specific bathroom is a bathroom with toilets in stalls, a row of sinks (and in the males, a row of urinals.)

I do not understand how the republicans party is against this, a few single locked bathrooms that are for single individuals or parents with kids. How is this a thing to vote over? They are all over the place.

R131 has not even read the thread and wants to define what is and isn’t a gender neutral bathroom.

[quote] I do not understand how the republicans party is against this, a few single locked bathrooms that are for single individuals or parents with kids. How is this a thing to vote over?

And where are these bathrooms supposed to magically come from? Do they convert a closet? Put them on the roof? Section off part of the dining room? Unless you’re constructing a building from scratch, it’s just not feasible.

[...]

R131: is conflating bathroom types exactly how it was complained about in R111, and tries to oversimplify the issue.

it is BUILDING CODE. You can have:

gender specific bathrooms,

gender neutral (individual bathrooms) or

both.

Individual bathrooms are ALL over the place.

What does a gender neutral bathroom mean? You have a bathroom that is for an Individual or a parent with children and it locks. (One toilet, sink with a door that locks. Some have changing tables and a small urinals)

Again, these gender neutral (single) bathrooms are all over the place. Restaurants, Medical Offices, Businesses.

[r36] is correct. A Gender neutral bathroom ( is a individual bathroom with one toilet, sink and a door that locks. There is a changing table area and a small urinal).

[r136] is correct.

A Gender neutral bathroom ( is a individual bathroom with one toilet, sink and a door that locks. There is a changing table area and a small urinal).

EVERYONE has a gender neutral bathroom is their own home. They are all over the place in medical facilities, restaurants and businesses People have lost their minds and reading ability over this.

Ladies, nobody in the thread is complaining about single room gender neutral bathrooms. They are talking about multi-stall gender neutral bathrooms.

And to idiot who keeps saying “just create an individual bathroom,” where are these businesses supposed to create an individual bathroom? Most businesses are renting their spaces. Should they convert the coat check into a bathroom? Should they section off part of the kitchen to use as a bathroom?

[quote]R131 and R136, you have some nerve to flounce in here and lecture us about gender-neutral bathrooms as if we’re some 5-year-old who didn’t know what they are. You didn’t even bother to read the thread. Do you not think that maybe, just maybe, this would have come up in the over 100 replies?

And your solution is “they’re everywhere! Just put them in every building!” How?!? I don’t see how it would be possible to put one in my office. I don’t see how it would be possible to put one in In-N-Out or Taco Bell. These are very small spaces and unless your solution is to knock buildings down and rebuild, these individual bathrooms are just not feasible.

With a bathroom where it's single use, and you lock the door, gender neutral doesn't matter. I'm fine with that.

I hate the idea of gender neutral bathrooms with multiple people. It's fucking DISGUSTING. Bad enough to have to use the bathroom with other people in there of the same sex. So so much worse if there are female in there.

I'm totally against it. Disgusting.

Again, many people are still apparently very confused, and conflating the two types of bathrooms exactly like R111 said earlier.

The term "Gender Neutral Restroom" has been now applied to BOTH styles of bathrooms: single use and multi stall. That's the problem here, and people (mostly GOP) are getting nuts over the performative signage for this placed on single use bathrooms. The damn bathrooms should always have just said Restroom, and have a toilet and sink, and let there be more than one of these single use bathrooms, if needed to accommodate a larger crowd.

R143 is at least clarifying their position here, and stating her boundaries. Some of y'all are real busy trying to define what GNR actually means, but it really has been used on both styles. Hence the conflation and confusion here.

The trans want you to be confused so they can argue whichever suits their latest lie.

How many times do we have to see how they lie before we understand they can't be trusted to tell the truth about anything?

R145 is correct.

The trans activists want to confuse people because they know the vast of majority of people DO NOT want multi-stall bathrooms that are for both sexes.

Gender neutral multi-stall bathrooms create the potential for a man and woman who are complete strangers to be alone together. And then insert large age differences or teenage males into that potential scenario.

Males risk being suspected of or actually accused of inappropriate behavior.

Females risk being subject to anything ranging from inappropriate behavior such as lingering/flirting up to to a sexual assault.

[quote]Gender neutral multi-stall bathrooms create the potential for a man and woman who are complete strangers to be alone together.

So what? Men and women can’t be in public spaces together? 🙄

R147 Don't act stupid. You know perfectly well what R146 meant. A bathroom is a private space where people partially disrobe to shit and piss. They change clothes there. Women change their tampons/pads there. I could go on with all the private things people do in bathrooms, and I don't blame women for not wanting to share the bathroom with men.

No, the stall is a private space. The sink and mirror is a public space!

For fuck's sake, women wash, apply makeup, all kinds of shit by the sink and mirror. I get we men don't get it. We barely wash our hands once we're done.

And they can’t do all of that shit in public?

[quote]They change clothes there. Women change their tampons/pads there. I could go on with all the private things people do in bathrooms,

EWWW, So woman pull their tampons dripping with blood out of their fishy gash while they are standing in front of the mirror? I never knew that.

Gender neutral bathrooms have private stall with locking doors even if it's just a urinal. It's only the mirror an sinks that are basically public. If woman are that disgusting, then I change my mind. I dont want to see that while I am washing my hands.

[quote]For fuck's sake, women wash, apply makeup, all kinds of shit by the sink and mirror.

EWWW, women without makeup? AHAAAAAAA!!!!!!!

This is how it usually is set up people, not complicated.

R154, so if a woman is inside a toilet and a guy is out by the sink all he has to do is wait for the woman to start opening the toilet door, push her back inside the toilet room, close the door and then barricade himself in there with her. It's the perfect rape closet.

Lack of privacy, sexual harassment, rape.

Did you know that the bathroom in your home is gender neutral? 😮

R157, your home bathroom looks like the one at R154?

[quote]so if a woman is inside a toilet and a guy is out by the sink all he has to do is wait for the woman to start opening the toilet door, push her back inside the toilet room, close the door and then barricade himself in there with her. It's the perfect rape closet.

RAPE CLOSET? Omg, Hyperbole about that much? How is that any different than a single bathroom with a door in a small family restaurant? I have been to many tiny family restaurants that only have one bathroom. I guess those are all rape closets in your mind. In fact they must be since they tend to be way in the back, past the kitchen where it's quite private. I think you are better off just not leaving the house.

So now, according to R155, everyone with a house who throws a party and lets guest use their bathroom has a "rape closet".

You don't have to go full TERF to understand that multi-stall mixed sex bathrooms might be a bad idea, unless they re-configured to ensure privacy and safety. Mixed sex locker rooms will always be a bad idea.

They are trying to prevent gay men with children from using the individual bathrooms. Now, they are trying to block trans people from using individual bathrooms. They are no label gender neutral. Also, they are also with people with disabilities. The building regulation has change this individual bathrooms are now gender neutral, meaning you cannot restrict who can use them, because it is DISCRIMINATION , and also blatantly stupid.

There are still gender specific bathrooms. This is where there are a bunch of toilets in stalls, and a row of sinks. In the men's joint bathroom, there are a row of urinals.

There has to be a place for MEN with their babies to change them, and help them use the bathroom. This is why there are individual bathrooms, and men and woman can use them.

A man cannot walk into a women's joint bathroom. You can be arrested for this. Men can use the GENDER NEUTRAL (individual bathroom).

The stupidity about this is insane. All you have to do is read the building code about this. Have people lost their ability to read?

^^^Who are you arguing with? No one here has a problem with single room gender neutral bathrooms. Some people do have a problem with multi-stall gender neutral bathrooms, which do exist. With better design for privacy and safety, I think most people will be ok with them in the end.

R163, a man can walk into a female multi-stall bathroom when there are trans laws in effect. And they can't be questioned by anyone about why they are there. That's how trans laws work.

[quote]A man cannot walk into a women's joint bathroom. You can be arrested for this.

And that was a bull shit double standard. Women used to INVADE men's bathrooms all the time when the women's line looked too long. Sorry but how is that fair? If a women bathroom has 6 stalls and a men's only has 3, how do they figure it's not being used by men? Even worse, I have seen them cut in line and pull the "make room for a lady" card. Funny how they don't mind being treated differently in those situations.

trans people without children can use an Individual bathroom. Individual bathrooms are now Gender Neutral. Individual bathrooms are all over the place.

They used to be handicap bathrooms, then woman with children/babies could use these individual bathrooms. Now, they are Gender Neutral individual bathrooms. They are for individuals, children, handicap and parent with babies/children. Men with babies/kids can use them. Trans individuals can use these individual bathrooms.

Individual bathrooms are NOW gender neutral. It is not marked for woman or men only. There are still gender specific joint bathrooms and they are still marked for a specific gender.

Transpeople want to use the individual bathrooms for their safety. They can. They can use as an INDIVIDUAL. Anyone, including a trans person, can also use the individual bathroom, if they are helping a family member, helping a family member who is a child/baby, or if they are helping a handicap person.

the gender neutral individual law also protects handicap people from having to explain their medical condition to some idiot. A handicap person can use it without having to proven they are handicap/disabled. This law really helps the disabled and handicap too. It protects their medical privacy too. It is now bathroom that is for individuals, or a family or if someone senior/disabled needs someone helping them.

These individual bathrooms are all over the place in the USA already. I do not know the problem is? They are in medical doctors offices and hospitals. They are in restaurants and stores. Starbucks have gender neutral Individual bathrooms.

No woman wants these type of creeps in their bathrooms.

I don't want this guy in my mother's restroom.

Bathrooms should be divided into "Tops" and "Bottoms". Versatile would go to "Bottoms".

[quote]There are still gender specific bathrooms. This is where there are a bunch of toilets in stalls, and a row of sinks. In the men's joint bathroom, there are a row of urinals.

Really? There is? There’s still single sex bathrooms? This is brand new information!

R72 yes I would rather pee in the woods than share a room where I am sitting pants down with a guy 2 feet taller than me who is loitering there just because he wants to cosplay the woman experience. Not all bathrooms are equally frequented - you are potentially alone with whoever else is there. I really changed my mind on this - I supported the issue when it was "We only want to pee!" and the trans seemed like a handful of pretty harmless people with sensible demands. I was wrong.

This doesn’t matter to me because I’m going to try my best to wait til I get home anyway.

Sadism and voyeurism as paraphilias

I have a gender neutral bathroom in my house.

[quote]I have a gender neutral bathroom in my house.

How often do you open your bathroom door after taking a shit to find a 6ft 3 woman with IBS called Brian stood there waiting for you to leave?

I can walk in and out of my bathroom at home completely naked. I can even leave the door open. How come I can't do that in a public restroom?

Oh, I hadn't realized so many people would take my absurd joke so seriously.

R180, I have a gender-neutral toilet in my house too and it's really obvious when males use it.

Years ago, while eating at a Taco Bell, I sneezed and peed a little. I went to the public restroom, for girls. I took off my wrap skirt and dried it under the hand blowers. I woman walked in as I stood there, shirt and shoes only, still trying to dry my shame.

Don't tell me that people don't undress in public restrooms. There are times when you MUST do so.

No. I will never use a unisex restroom. Such a place will just wind up being a second set of toilets and sinks for MEN.

For God's sake, many gay men have sex in men's public toilets! How can people not realize this?? A man or two or more might think that the coast is clear, so why not go for it?? Then someone walks in-- like a woman with her old Mama?? See my point?

You can F/F me, but I'll just come back and make a similar comment on a similar thread as soon as one pops up.

I feel uncomfortable when women bring their elementary school age boys into the bathrooms at the mall with them. I don't like it. And I won't let anyone make me feel ashamed of that fact. But,, I'm sure, someone on DL will try.

R182, exactly. Some of these men are like cats - stupid.

Get out of our bathrooms. And take your dick with you.

Cats are actually very smart, r184.

I LOVE CATS!! They do not listen to me; they remind me of women.