Michael Jackson's best and worst studio album(s) ever?

Best - Bad

Worst - Invincible

Sorry, forgot to say why:

Bad didn’t have one bad song on it and while Invincible starts off well, after the first 5 tracks, it becomes almost all filler

You know what I just thought of?

So at 34, who grew up with Michael Jackson as an adult, I always think “Off The Wall” is his first album. But it’s his fifth album.

Do eldergays acknowledge his first albums in the 70’s? It’s like they almost don’t count even though I know “Ben” and “Got to be There” and “Music and Me”.

Anyways, I think “Off the Wall” is his best album from a critical standpoint.

His worst is probably “Invincible”.

MJ only had two good albums - Off the Wall and Thriller. Bad only had a couple good songs and Invincible was SHIT. It sounded so dated in the early 90s.

It's interesting that the biggest male pop star of all time had such a small catalog. Four studio albums is really paltry.

R4, you forgot Dangerous and History (the second disc.)

[quote]Four studio albums is really paltry.

You're way off. He had 9 studio albums, plus the entire album that is the second disc of HIStory. Even if you only start counting with "Off the Wall" there's 5 plus that second disc.

R3 those first 4 albums were when he was a child/teen and he had very little say in them. He was still with Motown and was mostly just given tracks to sing. So it's understandable that so many of his fans don't really count them as "his" work. Similarly, Alanis Morissette released a couple of albums in Canada as a teen, but everyone thinks of Jagged Little Pill as her "real" debut.

Thriller is probably his best--it's the rare album with truly no filler. Off the Wall comes close but "Girlfriend" is weak. Worst is Invincible. He really was coasting at that point--he even reused an old rap by Biggie Smalls (who was dead by then).

Best: Thriller, followed by Dangerous

Worst: Invincible

Good choices

I think Bad should be his best since it has nothing but hits, that are as timeless as his famous Thriller tracks. But I’ve grown into a huge fan of his Dangerous album. I was born in ‘91 so watched the VHS of “Feee Willy” growing up. Yeah, that song is shrill, but I still love it and makes me think of my childhood. Dangerous has my 2nd favorite MJ song, “Who Is It?”, after the amazing “Smooth Criminal” (Bad).

Thrill is also great, but that damn Paul McCartney song makes me cringe so hard.

History was interesting. Off the Wall bores me but I appreciate the musical arrangements. Invincible is garbage.

“Blood on the Dance Floor” and “Ghost” were his last digestible songs. Both of which weren’t great for an artist of his stature.

MJ made a huge mistake only releasing 2 albums in the 80s because by the 90s he lost his grip on reality and what was or wasn’t hip.

R10, I don't know about that. If he had released more albums, he could have risked being considered overexposed by the public. Which would hurt his sales rather than help.

The best is Got To Be There, the worst Bad (all songs are bad). Until Thriller he still seemed to care about the quality of the songs rather than the commercial, after that he just went downhill. Plus the voice got worse and quite annoying, full of Hee Hee and Aw, that's not singing!

Who gives a fuck? He was a pedophile, a deeply disturbed, surgery-and-drug-addicted man. I use "man" with some reservations.

R12, you didn't like Smooth Criminal?

Crazy that he only had six studio albums.

I wouldn’t know, I don’t support serial child predators.

I wish he would have at least released another album inbetween Thriller and Bad. 5 years is a long time to not release an album in your prime.

Anyone know why he waited so long from 1982 to 1987?

He got real treacly on records toward the end. His voice got quieter and simpering. He needed some producers with testosterone.

r17 I think his personal issues were taking up a lot of his time

[quote] Anyone know why he waited so long from 1982 to 1987?

I think getting his hair on fire , getting his face "adjusted", using skin bleaching creams and molesting boys took up the bulk of his time in those years.

This is interesting. Is it possible he didn't tour at all for Thriller? Just a pre-Thriller tour with his brothers, then another with them in '84?

Of course back then- with albums, records and tapes- you just had to sit back and watch the money roll in. Maybe he was shopping?

The cracks started to show with Bad, there were only a couple good songs and his pedophilia began to come out in the forefront. The Bad tour had young boys everywhere, he wasn't hiding it anymore. After that album, Jackson's obsession/criminally insane behavior took over and it was nothing but little boys all the time. In his videos, on his concert tours, public appearances etc. In retrospect it was so weird and creepy.

The Off the Wall and Thriller years didn't have Jackson's personal obsessions influencing his work.

R17, boys just don't molest themselves!

R17 he started working on the follow up to Thriller while he was still releasing singles from it. But then he had the Pepsi accident, surgery, the Victory Tour, more plastic surgery, that Captain Eo thing, We Are The World, and other stuff I'm sure I'm forgetting. Plus he recorded some insane number of songs for the Bad album and had to be talked down into keeping it a one album release as opposed to some kind of giant multiple sided album thing. My guess is he got word Prince was releasing a double album (which became Sign O' The Times) and wanted to upstage him.

Bad and Dangerous both have great production, but some of the songs just seem silly now. "Bad" "Speed Demon" "Liberian Girl" "Black or White" and "Heal the World" all are borderline ridiculous and too try hard.

R24, was the album he was working on while still releasing singles from Thriller the Bad album or was it was another album that got scrapped?

R25 I agree but I think both Liberian Girl and even the schmalzy Heal the World are both great songs with beautiful choruses

I grew up with "Off the Wall" and "Thriller. " Those are the last truly great, unspoilt albums of his ouvre. I thought "Bad" was a terrible album, even at the time. We'd been waiting so long for the follow-up to Thriller, and when the single "Bad" dropped, I thought was shit. It had no teeth. "Bad" is also when he started to bleach his skin and shave his nose off. It just got super weird all of a sudden.

I like "Dangerous" more than "Bad." I also think "Stranger in Moscow"is a gorgeous song. One of his very best. But I find it hard to even talk about anything MJ-related with any sincerity because it's all tainted goods at this point. I really wish he could have had a nice long career - his talent is unparalleled. But he was totally damaged by his father and by his childhood. And I cannot begin to wrap my mind around the levels of weirdness that emanated from Michael Jackson from the Bad-era onward. Like, his nose was literally falling off! Repeated molestation trials. Marrying Elvis' daughter for five seconds. His kids. His wigs. HIs anorexia. His addiction to anesthesia. It's like a season of American Horror Story. It was an awful thing to witness, and I think we were all rather traumatized by it up until his death, and then by his death.

R26 I don't know whether any of the songs he was writing in 1983 ended up on the Bad album, or whether he even had an actual album concept in place then. But there is a song in Captain Eo that basically sounds like a demo for "Another Part of Me." So he probably had that song ready as early as 1985.

R27 "Liberian Girl" is pretty but the lyrics are just so cheesy. "Leave Me Alone" is such as great song, it's a shame he didn't swap out one of the weaker songs for it in the US release.

R28, agree. There's some good stuff on Bad but it really is a huge dropoff from Off the Wall and Thriller. Off the Wall is near-perfect, and Thriller really is as close to a perfect pop/R&B album as possible. The "weakest" song is "The Girl is Mine" but it works because Paul and Michael just lean so heavily on their charisma, and the production is perfect with that jazzy kind of swing to it.

R29, oh I see, so he probably never mentioned any talk about an album being released between 1982 and 1987...

I was trying to remember if he did say anything but I don't believe he did...

Here's a 1983 interview where he mentions (starting at 9:00) writing for the upcoming Jackson's Victory album, and then mentions he's working on a song about a Liberian Girl. So likely at least some of the Bad tracks started as possible songs for Victory.

It's hard to find actual songs from people not powerful enough to retaliate when you rip them off without credit.

[quote] Bad didn’t have one bad song on it and while Invincible starts off well, after the first 5 tracks, it becomes almost all filler

So you're saying that "Bad" was all good, and "Invincible" was weak?

I suppose you also think that "Thriller" was boring, and "Dangerous" was too safe.

Dangerous sounded dated the day it came out. MJ had totally lost the plot by then.

It's really no contest. Thriller. The only "weak" songs are the Paul Mc duet (The Girl Is Mine) which is a little cheesy and Baby Be Mine which isn't bad but just isn't up to the caliber of the rest of the songs.

Rod Temperton's Thriller and Lady in My Life are 2 great up/tempo and ballad songs respectively.

Wanna Be Startin Something/ Beat it/Billie Jean are MJ's masterpieces. Simple musically but genius production and groove wise.

Off The Wall is close second but I can't even remember the songs besides the hits.

I loved the whole "Off The Wall" album and was initially disappointed when I got "Thriller" because it sounded more gimmicky, "Beat It" and the title song were new territory for an evolving Michael.

I can't separate quality from nostalgia but even today I listen to "Don't Stop Til You Get Enough", "Off The Wall", "I Can't Help It", "It's The Falling In Love" and "Working Day and Night." I only listen to "Human Nature" from Thriller.

I wonder why Michael's estate doesn't release a lot of his unreleased material like Prince's estate does.

Anyone know?

R38 Oh but they did, monsieur. There were two posthumous albums. "Michael" was released in 2010 and "Xscape" in 2014.

Off the Wall. It's more concerned with being a fun, cohesive album of grooves and ballads instead of being a bombastic chore to get through.

Thriller is great but the "mechanical Michael" started to emerge where he kept aiming to make THE BIGGEST ALBUM OF ALL TIME, which was his problem throughout his entire career. He kept trying to top Thriller when he needed to go back to basics and make a more laid-back and stripped-back album. Though, with all the surgeries, general weirdness, and accusations, that wasn't going to happen.

R32, I didn't realize how strange he was even then. For some reason I thought his oddness came later.

Fame is so weird. We lionize these people and most are truly idiotic.

Bad was really the tipping point. That's when he REALLY started getting freaky with the plastic surgery and bizarre behavior. There was no going back after that.

Pedo Jackson peaked in the mid 80s. Never understood the love for this scrawny child abuser.

The answer can be said in few words:

There are only 2 Michael Jackson solo albums worth owning:

1) "Off The Wall"

2) "Thriller"

The two Quincy Jones albums he did were great. I remember being on the dancefloor a lot. Billy Jean was brilliant pop music, no doubt!

I'm really amazed Michael's material after Thriller streams as well it does. I always felt like what he did after Thriller was just dated and safe but apparently the general public disagrees with me. I always felt Madonna and Janet took way more risks musically than he did.

Madonna took a lot of risks with her music, she never really played it safe. I've always admired that about her. Mariah, Whitney, Celine and others always stuck to the same safe formula.

R47, I feel like she played it safe starting in 2008. But before that, she dfefinitely took a lot of risks.

R45, Bad was with Quincy Jones too

R46 his late 89s early 90s hits were no more dated then Whitney’s hits. Both are still played around the world. Madonna abs Janet, for all their risk taking have faded out of people’s memories and playlists. You can make flash in the pan music or songs that last.

Ed Shereen has some songs playing non-stop right now (we’ll, almost all the time). Bad Habits and Shivers will be played for decades. But it is a generic, safe, middle of the road pop song that doest wow anyone but can be appreciated by almost everyone. That’s what MJ abs Whitney’s music did in the late-80s to early 90s.

^ typos, on my phone with my fat fingers. Abs = and.

Songs not song.

Madonna sure hasn't faded, you still hear her old stuff all the time.

Only a handful of Whitney's hits are still played. I never hear One Moment in Time, So Emotional, Didn't We Almost Have it All, Love Will Save the Day, Where do Broken Hearts Go, etc. I still hear Madonna's 80s hits on the radio, albeit not as much as I did in the 00s. I think Like a Prayer has aged better than any of Michael's Bad singles, minus Smooth Criminal.

Whitney's "I Wanna Dance With Somebody" is played a lot. "You Give Good Love" and some of the other ballads too.

Saving All My Love for You, How Will I Know, I Wanna Dance, I will Always Love You and I have Nothing are the only Whitney songs I hear.

Thriller was a once-in-a-lifetime juggernaut. Janet’s RN 1814 and Springsteen’s BITUSA join Thriller as the only three albums in the 80s with 7 top 10 Hot 100 hits, but RN tops the other two, as all of its singles went top 5. Janet similarly had two albums pre-Control that did little chart-wise, so some people assume Control was her first album.

Nothing on Bad is as good as Human Nature. Thriller gets a little corny sometimes, which is why Off The Wall had a slight edge over it.

Whitney's My Love is Your Love album was a departure from the usual pop RnB ballad style material she did before that.

I don't think any of her music is dated though, esp live performances get played a lot on youtube.

I think Whitney's second album has aged badly, minus IWDWS. Her first album is much better.

I don’t feel like any of his music has held up.

IWDWS is very dated in a bad way--those brassy sounding synth sounds, ugh--it's just still popular because it's a fun song.

Michael Jackson's Bad and Whitney Houston's second album, Whitney, both came out in 1987, and both of them were created to appeal to as many people as possible. In time, I think it's worked against both albums as they sound dated and mechanical. However, both albums had huge hits, Bad having five #1 songs and Whitney having four #1 songs. But they made better albums. I agree Whitney's first album is much stronger.

The background lyrics to "Bad" always make me giggle: "Bad! Bad! Really, really bad!"

I've never really been able to get into his music. I think it might be due to his personality and all that weirdness and the likelihood he was a paedophile. Because objectively I'm sure he has some excellent music, but I just never really want to listen to it, or enjoy it when I am hearing it somewhere. Yeah, I think it's hard for me to divorce him as a person from his music, so all I see when I hear is music is him.

From what people have said here, maybe I'll at least stream Off the Wall and Thriller and see how I feel after that. But to be honest, I'd rather go back and listen to Janet.

[quote]Fame is so weird. We lionize these people and most are truly idiotic.

You hit the nail on the head here!

R63, I totally get Prince when he was explaining why he refused to do Bad as a duet with Michael. That "your butt is mine" lyric made him cringe.

What did people think when he came out with a new scary face and whiter skin tone every album?

I was a teen pop obsessive at. the time so I can tell you exactly what they thought.

He was untouchably cool at the height of Thriller. Everyone adored him. That all changed with awards season in 84 when people heard his effeminate speaking voice, when he collected his awards, combined with the then emerging tabloid image as a weirdo. The 80s schoolyard started to turn on him when he began to be perceived as a gay weirdo.

The tabloid freak image escalated between albums. When the BAD video emerged, with his new skin tone and significantly shrunken nose, he was no longer cool, but had a big enough devoted fanbase to sell a lot of records. He looked like a bizarre effeminate weirdo pretending to be a scary gang NY member. That was the moment the cool bubble burst forever.

By Dangerous he was a total freak and not even remotely cool but still had his large and obsessive following.

By Invincible his face had deteriorated to something from a horror film; he was a bizarre and scary pedophile and only the totally deranged fans remained.

Because Michael took a long time to release albums, he also took time to (intentionally?) make his image weirder and weirder. After Thriller, he did all these weird shenanigans that, by the time Bad came out, his image had started to change as r66 points out.

Part of the problem with Michael was that he seemed so inaccessible and weird by the time Bad came out. Other superstars like Madonna, Whitney, Janet, George, and even Prince, seemed accessible and level-headed. Michael was just weird.

That one where he had the kid sit on his face.. The chorus went "It don't matter if your crack's all shite"

Even his Thriller nose looked odd, unnatural and pinched. But not grotesque.

His Bad nose was too small and looked straight up weird and unnatural.

By Dangerous his nose was crumbling.

By Invincible he didn't look human anymore. He looked like a disfigured accident victim.

It makes me laugh thinking how Prince had a problem with “your butt is mine” when he used to girate onstage with his big burly backing dancers while wearing assless pants.

Well who would bottom for Michael Jackson? That would be very emasculating for Prince.

R69, what do you think of his first nose job circa Off The Wall?

[quote] What did people think when he came out with a new scary face and whiter skin tone every album?

The album cover for "Bad" was shocking and horrifying. I remember my mother and other relatives quietly "tsk, tsk-ing" over it -- it was like "now why would that boy do THAT to himself?"

When BAD came out, I remember everybody being like "WTF did he do to his face? And why is he lighter-skinned?" It was a big topic of conversation among the public and the media.

If you weren't around in the 80s I don't think you can really understand how FAMOUS and influential pop stars like Michael Jackson and Madonna had, or the cultural impact they had. It just doesn't exist today, even among the biggest celebrities. It was a different kind of fame and cultural relevance that we don't have anymore.

Sorry that should read: pop stars like Michael Jackson and Madonna WERE.

R74, true. That kind of fame won't be seen again for a long, long time. Our culture is too fractured for it to exist right now.

R70, I don't think Prince's issue with it was because he thought it was homoerotic. The song is too silly to be homoerotic. I remember Prince saying his problem with the "your butt is mine" lyrics was "and just who is going to be singing that to whom?" There was no way he was going to play along with Michael calling him out like that and Michael wasn't inviting him to duet to be the one called out.

He should never have touched his nose, or anything else. He was naturally very handsome with strong features that looked good on his squarish face. But if he had stopped at his Off The Wall or even Thriller nose and chin he would have remained a very good looking man.

R74, true. Little old immigrant grandmothers knew who Michael Jackson was in 1984, and danced along with their grandkids when that record was on. I remember our crotchety old bus driver in elementary school would only let us play music if it was the Thriller album, and the principal at our all white school came outside one day to watch kids breakdance to Billie Jean. No one has that kind of reach anymore.

The Off The Wall nose was fine.

To me the rock bottom moment of absurdity was the start of this video, lusting after women and pretending to be a hetero stud, in caked on drag make up and bizarrely mutilated face that no one is reacting to.

R80, exactly. Isn't there a part in the video where he even lifts up the woman's dress? He wasn't fooling anyone. I'm so glad Invincible bombed.

Everybody was over MJ by Invincible except for his crazy hardcore fans

R82, yup, the same hardcore fans who cheered him and went wild as he dangled a baby outside his window. Even if he dropped the baby, those fans would still be cheering

Best = "Thriller."

R7, Biggie was not dead when that album nor Jam was released. Big died in 1997.

Many times ppl consider an artists breakthrough album their first album. Many think that Control is Janet's 1st album.

Many don't give a shit that Control wasn't Janet's 1st album.

[quote]Many don't give a shit that Control wasn't Janet's 1st album.

Many people do, sweetie. YOU included.

Nope r88

Put the psycho at R87 on ignore and witness the MANY pressed responses in previous Janet threads. Bitch is PRESSED.

The definitive version of "Nasty" doesn't belong to Janet Jackson, it belongs to Sondra Prill. Nobody did it quite like Sondra did it.

Nasty put Janet on the pop culture map as a singer. From the early '90s TV series Nasty Boys to the WWF tag team duo The Nasty Boys to Hillary's presidential run to that silly shit at R91, it remains a pop culture stalwart to this day.

Sondra Prill decimated Janet Jackson's version.

I've noticed that a lot of black people just don't "get" camp. At all. It goes right over their heads.

R38 R39 Michael’s posthumous releases have been really bizarre.

First of all, some of the songs on that “Michael” album aren’t even him. “Breaking News”, “Monster” and some other songs are by a sound-alike. It’s clearly not his voice.

And then the “Xscape” album is weird too because they have the newly remixes and then the second album is songs in their “original” form but those are remixed as well because they were already leaked and the album versions have these cheesy 90’s production to them.

[quote]I've noticed that a lot of black people just don't "get" camp. At all. It goes right over their heads.

In the same way that white people wouldn't know rhythm if it came up from behind them and fucked them in the ass?

Agreed R74. I was too young to remember MJ, Madonna, Prince, Whitney, etc. But my older sisters have spoken about it. (For me it was more Nirvana, which is a bit different.).

Has any pop star been quite as big as those 80s stars? Maybe Gaga in terms of dominating the zeitgeist for a time (however brief).

R97, I would say Beyonce, Bruno Mars.

No way r98. Even they don't have the impact that MJ and Madonna had in the 80s.

Best MJ album: Thriller. Absolutely, no doubt about it. It is one of the finest pop albums ever made.

Worst: I really can't think of one, if we're excluding the posthumous albums (which I am). His three best (Thriller, Bad and Off the Wall) were amazing. Dangerous was still very good. The rest (even the 70s albums) had their moments. I can't pinpoint one as "worst" and I'm glad about that.

Bad only had two good songs. The rest were shit.

Best: Off The Wall

But... IMHO Got To Be There is one of the best pop songs ever.

Britney was the only artist who came as close as Madonna or MJ. She was such a phenomenon in the late '90s, and like Madonna, she had all those copycats who followed in her wake, and like MJ, people mimicked her dance moves.

Britney was only popular with tweens and teens, she didn't appeal to a broad age demographic. I was in my twenties at the time and people my age thought she was a dumb white trash girl who was totally manufactured by others.

Maybe it’s all subjective depending on our own age/taste at the time but Britney in the late 90s/early 2000s didn’t seem as big culturally as MJ or Madonna in the 80s/early 90s. It felt like they had fans of all ages. Britney’s fans were predominantly kids and teenagers.

I think as MJ and Madonna were part of the first MTV generation of artists and felt like the ‘first’ to do what they’d done, it’s hard to see anyone after as being quite up there at their level, whatever their sales or media exposure.

Everything Madonna did was major news. The fucking Pope threatened to personally excommunicate her from the Catholic Church. There has never been another star like that.

Spotify

MJ

28,905,669 monthly listeners

Madonna

21,284,678 monthly listeners

r107 Jackson was just as famous as Madonna

LOL at anyone who thinks that Britney was another Madonna. Britney was Janet 2.0 in every aspect of her career. Her singing inflections, hi-octane choreography, music videos and concerts were all carbon copies of Janet stuff. They even called her "Little Janet" behind the scenes on the MMC.

And she had as little talent as Janet too!

[quote]and like Madonna, she had all those copycats who followed in her wake, and like MJ, people mimicked her dance moves.

HAHAHA, puh-lease. And you got the wrong Jackson...

Madonna really changed the whole music landscape for female singers. For better or worse, depending on how you see it.

Are Janbot and that 'ancient white fags' nutcase the same person? They post at the same time and are equally mentally disturbed.

"I wanted to be her."

Britney even got Janet cast-off songs like Boys and I'm A Slave 4 U. At one point, she was even filming her videos in the same hotels as Janet, as both Janet's Son of a Gun and (later) Britney's Overprotected were both shot at the Biltmore Hotel in DTLA.

Janet Jackson hasn't been culturally relevant in a long while

^Stop deluding yourself. Never mind the fact that just about every dance/pop/R&B star out today has been influenced by her in one way or another, or that Dancing With The Stars had a Janet night last season, or that her documentary soared in the ratings earlier this year, or that she was the most searched on Google after her appearance at the Billboard Awards a couple of weeks ago, but she never has to embarrass herself via social media like…ahem…someone…and people still speak her name (Bobby Brown recently saying she was the crush of his life) or go viral because of her (the 88 year old woman who danced to All For You in her living room).

Anna Nicole’s daughter was dressed in one of Janet’s outfits when she recently met her

I absolutely love this song.

“History” had 2 good songs: “They Don’t Care About Us” and “Stranger In Moscow” which I felt were a little different for him although they are stylistically him but not so stale.

The rest of that album is utter same old MJ nonsense.

“Little Susie” is fucking creepy.

This song is weird as fuck too.

I don’t know why someone would want to listen to this.

Then again “Dear Mr Jesus” was popular.

I see JanBot has decided to shit all over this thread.

R85, you're confusing albums. Invincible was released in 2001. The song that reused an old Biggie rap was "Unbreakable."

"Jam" featured Heavy D, not Biggie Smalls. Biggie wasn't even known yet when Dangerous was released.

MJ was the star of the Jackson 5 and was famous for thirteen years before Madonna hit it big with her first album. She was also 13 years old when the J5 became famous.

Britney was big but so was Backstreet Boys, NSYNC and Christina Aguilera. They were all part of the conservative teen pop sound revival that began with the Spice Girls. Combining the aesthetics of grown-up party teenybopper R&B of TLC, Monica, Usher, Immature, Brandy and Aaliyah. Britney got luckiest because she was chosen to take the spot of the aging pop divas and the media pushed her hard. She isn't like Madonna or Michael or Janet though they influenced her. She's more akin to Debbie Gibson and Tiffany in she was huge with kids and teen girls. She had dolls, toys, books, makeup, etc. Nickelodeon and Disney Channel were promoting her music. She called herself a virgin to justify her racy image and please parents.

Britney, Timberlake, Christina and Beyonce all matured their sound to the hip-hop trends of the 2000s but they all eventually faded away from the charts. Beyonce began rebranding to an exclusive and artistic image, focusing on her music videos and pushing spectacles which helped maintain her relevancy. Only reason Britney remained famous was for her mental breakdown and controversy over her conservatorship.

R103 But she was like a fad, same with Gaga. They didn't have longevity, that's why I touted Beyonce and Bruno Mars. In record sales they don't match MJ or Madge, but thats not how people consume music anymore. Beyonce is the closest thing to MJ in pop culture zeitgeist, universal appeal, and critical acclaim. Also she is one of the few stars along with a handful of hollywood actors who still seem like a star Their presence is an event, and they always receive top billing.

Here are the rockstar holy grail of the 80s: MJ, Madonna, Prince, Bruce Springstein, Tina Turner, David Bowie, Whitney Houston

Today: Beyonce, Bruno Mars, Adele, Kanye West, Taylor Swift, Rihanna, Post Malone

I like Bruno Mars, but no. He's not even in the same universe as Michael, Madonna, Bruce, Whitney, or Prince in terms of reach. Neither is Kayne, nor Rihanna, definitely not Post Malone. And not Britney or any of the other teenyboppers.

Beyonce maybe comes close, possibly even Taylor Swift. Maybe Adele if she had more output. It's not just popularity, it's reach and longevity. It's ability to transcend a lot of different demographics over time--not just race but age, national background, language, all kinds of differences. Do little old ladies who don't speak much English and don't consume much media know who you are and exactly what you're famous for? Because if not, you're not on Michael or Madonna's level in the 80s and early 90s.

Beyoncé, Taylor and Rihanna are still pretty strong. Two decades and still have their original millennial fanbase and a Gen Z fanbase. Rihanna has her makeup and fashion line too and still looks young. Taylor managed to maintain her teenybopper image while trying new sounds. Beyoncé has her high budget music videos and aspirational Black woman image.

Gaga, Katy, Billie and Ariana felt more like fads. Katy had a good run though. Ariana seems to struggle with her musical identity. Good songs but never great. Gaga is still famous but she is like Cher now, gets a big movie and a single attached but nobody is checking for albums. Dua is still too new and I can't quite place where she'll go. I can't see Lizzo or Doja being nothing but gimmicks.

They aren't going to beat MJ, Madge, Springsteen or Beatles in sales because no one buys records like that anymore.

[quote]Here are the rockstar holy grail of the 80s: MJ, Madonna, Prince, Bruce Springstein, Tina Turner, David Bowie, Whitney Houston

You failed to mention the woman who signed two of the biggest record deals in history in one decade, who is the only artist with 7 top 5 Hot 100 hits on a single album, and who is the only black artist alive with a #1 album in the '80s/'90s/2000s and 2010s

It seems like people purposely leave Gaga out when mentioning uber-successful pop acts of today, particularly here on DL. This is a woman who has had massive commercial and critical success in film, TV and music, even when people said she was over (post-ArtPOP). Of the younger crop of pop stars, she is the only one with multiple Oscar noms in various categories and an actual win and a Golden Globe win, let alone the shit-load of Grammys that she has won. She is also the only one who has been lauded by (and is friends with) some of the most legendary performers of our time.

JFC you fucking freak r126 aka Janbot. Janet Jackson was NOT in the same category as Michael Jackson, Prince, Madonna, Tina Turner or Whitney Houston in the 80s. She was always second tier. Those five artist were the biggest pop stars in the world and had a huge impact globally.

I love Janet but she wasn't in the same league as Michael, Madonna, Whitney, Prince, Bowie, Tina and Springsteen. She was definitely very influential but she lacked the global appeal. I am of the camp that she deserves a lot of credit for setting blueprints of youth-oriented pop today and even Kpop and Jpop. She was infinitely cooler than Michael, Madonna and Whitney in the 90s but saleswise she's not in their league.

Gaga was only really huge musically from 2008 to 2011. She fell off the map and resurged on TV before getting film roles. She is now an acclaimed actress who releases a popular single from time to time. But she isn't musically relevant anymore. She's more like Cher and J. Lo now. An actress who does music for fun not her entire career.

Nobody was cooler or took more risks than Madonna in the 90s.

Offhand I can't even remember anything Janet did after the Janet album in '93. She wasn't a big deal with mainstream audiences after that iirc.

[quote] Britney was the only artist who came as close as Madonna or MJ. She was such a phenomenon in the late '90s, and like Madonna, she had all those copycats who followed in her wake, and like MJ, people mimicked her dance moves.

Britney influenced nobody with her dancing. It was entirely derivative of Janet Jackson, Aaliyah and Mya and she was nowhere close to their level of choreography. Her lack of rhythm was a big factor. She seemed way more comfortable could doing cheerleading spins, kicks and flips as per her current IG posts. But she had no fluidity to her moves. Ciara, J. Lo and Tinashe were more inspired by Janet and Aaliyah. While Beyonce channels Tina Turner. None of Britney's clones like Jessica, Mandy, Willa Ford, Jennifer Paige and Hoku were dancers. They were marketed on their wholesome white blondeness and jailbait sex appeal. Christina was more a Mariah clone before her label forced her to mimic Britney's sound and image. Which she was very, very unhappy about and worked her career to undo the comparisons.

R126, I know your talking about Janet but she became a superstar late 80s. She had Control and proved it wasn't a fluke with the groundbreaking Rhythm Nation. That was until 1989. She didn't dominate the decade like those mentioned artists.

R130. That's a lie. Velvet Rope was a massive critical success and had several hits. It was also a #1 album. That album she came out with in 2001 also was a commercial success with hits. Even that Nutty Professor single hit #1 on the charts. Janet had hits all up until Nipplegate.

[quote]Offhand I can't even remember anything Janet did after the Janet album in '93. She wasn't a big deal with mainstream audiences after that iirc.

Well guess what? You don't remember correctly. Janet's most critically heralded album is 1997's The Velvet Rope, a #1 album that was a global success giving her her biggest worldwide #1 hit with Together Again and several other charting hits. She once again toured globally to massive acclaim and commercial success, and the album's themes of depression, anti-homophobia and abusive relationships hit home with many die hard and casual fans alike. TVR's follow-up, All For You, gave her the biggest first week sales of her career and spawned the longest-running Hot 100 #1 of 2001, the Grammy-winning title track.

Janet was big from '86 to '02. The 90s was her era though with Rhythm Nation (1989 but many of the singles were released into 1990 and 1991), janet and The Velvet Rope. Janet eventually aged out, Nipplegate hurt her a lot but she was just getting too old to sing about being sexy and wanting sex. I think Damita Jo would have only been a moderate success anyway, that was a pure R&B album for grown folks. Granted, she did have a minor hit in 2008 with "Feedback" which got MTV and BET airplay. Mariah and Madonna faded from youth culture around the same time with their last big US albums in the mid-2000s and last big hits in 2008.

MJ albums have no fillers. Unlike Prince.

Just ignore JanBot. When it’s not ranting about irrelevant shit, it’s spewing lies and nonsense.

We’re not going to see the likes of another MJ or Madonna or Elvis or Beatles, just like we aren’t going to see the kind of movie stars that Old Hollywood produced, or the modern movie stars that ended with Julia Roberts and Tom Cruise. The industries are different and the nature of celebrity is different. It’s not a knock on anyone since, it’s just a different time.

R131, you are correct. My friend is a professional dance teacher and he told me that Britney Spears is not in the same league because if you watch her closely,it's obvious she doesn't move her lower body much. After he told me that, I can't unsee it.

[quote]Just ignore JanBot

[quote]or the modern movie stars that ended with Julia Roberts and Tom Cruise.

Sandra Bullock, who is still putting out blockbuster movies, would beg to differ.

R138 Yes. Britney always came across as a pageant performer. A showman type who can memorize choreography and such but not at all a natural dancer. I feel the same about Justin Timberlake too, nowhere close to Michael Jackson, Usher or Chris Brown. They were very trained from a young age to follow choreography as children but never seemed to step out of the comfort zone. What I do respect about Beyonce is she does seem very competitive with herself and worked very hard to improve both her singing and dancing thus she vastly grew as a performer.

Thread full of pedophile apologists.

[quote] I love Janet but she wasn't in the same league as Michael, Madonna, Whitney, Prince, Bowie, Tina and Springsteen. She was definitely very influential but she lacked the global appeal. I am of the camp that she deserves a lot of credit for setting blueprints of youth-oriented pop today and even Kpop and Jpop. She was infinitely cooler than Michael, Madonna and Whitney in the 90s but saleswise she's not in their league.

Janet Jackson has more certified sales worldwide than both Bowie and Tina Turner. Michael Jackson and Madonna are in a league of their own. Along with the Beatles, Elvis and Elton John, Michael Jackson has outsold Madonna.

[quote]Along with the Beatles, Elvis and Elton John, Michael Jackson has outsold Madonna.

Everybody knows this. No one said Madonna is the best selling artist of all time.

David Bowie and Tina Turner are eternal legends. Janet Jackson was a popular singer. She doesn't have a huge legacy like those two do.

[quote] David Bowie and Tina Turner are eternal legends. Janet Jackson was a popular singer. She doesn't have a huge legacy like those two do.

They each have legacies in different lanes. They were each influential.

Elton John has not outsold Madonna but I agree with the rest of that statement. If Madonna was a league below Michael, the Beatles and Elvis, Janet was two or three leagues below Madonna.

[quote] Elton John has not outsold Madonna

Elton John has sold more.

[quote] Everybody knows this. No one said Madonna is the best selling artist of all time.

Based upon the posts here; I'm not sure that everyone does.

Madonna never was close to being the best selling artist of all time. The queens around here tend to give her more credit than she deserves, hence the reason there’s a new thread about her irrelevant ass on this site every day. She couldn’t even garner a #1 album stateside during the entirety of the ‘90s, a period when even rappers were charting higher than her. The only thing she owned during that period was a scorching case of herpes.

Madonna definitely lost the plot with Sex/Erotica. She was all but forgotten, “Whatever Happened To” articles were being written about her, and she had to beg for the role of Evita with a handwritten letter to Alan Parker. That’s likely why she resented Janet, who was not only knocking out #1 albums and films during that time, but also signing record breaking contracts and being nominated for an Oscar, the latter something Madonna will NEVER be afforded.

[quote]Janet was two or three leagues below Madonna.

Not in this life time or the next.

Britney stayed copying Janet. STAYED.

Janet wasn’t the first person to do cheerleader routines in videos. Also she got her moves from Paula Abdul anyways.

[quote]Madonna definitely lost the plot with Sex/Erotica.

And she never regained it. I believe her botched face today is the manifestation of her anger over never truly being able to regain her 80s shine as a Michael Jackson-wannabe performer.

Madonna is the best selling female artist of all time.

Off the Wall is genius. Never understood why Thriller was more celebrated than it.

When you look at it. It was really Prince, Jam and Lewis who made Janet along with the rest of the new jack swing movement. Quincy Jones who made Michael Jackson. Niles Rodgers, Jellybean Benitiz and Reggie Lucas with Madonna. It was just as producer-heavy then it is now.

*as it is now

[quote]Off the Wall is genius. Never understood why Thriller was more celebrated than it.

I believe it was because of MTV and the Thriller music videos.

[quote] Elton John has sold more.

According to this site, Madonna outsold Elton by ~40 million.

Thriller just can’t be beat- it was life changing! Do you remember the beautiful album cover with the fold outs? Him def at his best

R162, I sure miss the fold-outs and posters that came with vinyl back in those days!

He was gorgeous back then- definitely worth researching 😍

Anyone know if that was his real nose or 1st nose job on the Off The Wall album cover?

Also, was that his 1st or 2nd nose job on the Thriller album cover?

He should've stopped with the surgery after Thriller, he looked great in that era.

"[R130]. That's a lie. Velvet Rope was a massive critical success and had several hits. It was also a #1 album. That album she came out with in 2001 also was a commercial success with hits. Even that Nutty Professor single hit #1 on the charts. Janet had hits all up until Nipplegate."

As someone who was there in the 80s and 90s, and was a fan of both Madonna and Janet and paid attention to the popular music of those times, Janet definitely hit a wall after the "janet." album in 1993. That album itself was huge, I'm not saying it wasn't. It also had a ton of hit singles on it. BUT after that album, Miss Jackson's popularity began to slide. The Velvet Rope was released with a lot of hoopla, but it was not considered a hit. The albums that followed were somewhat popular. Some more, some less. But none of them (including Velvet Rope) were considered smash hits in the way that Control, Rhythm Nation, and janet were. That is just a fact. Janet had a great career (probably better than her pretty but weak voice deserved) and she's still out there performing. God bless her. But she, like most popular recording artists, had a fairly short window of superstar record sales. She's still a star, but she will never be the Control/RN/janet caliber superstar she was then, Those are just facts. Madonna was relevant for a longer span, from 1984 to the early 2000s. That kind of sustained popularity (albeit with some career dips in there that she always came back from) is unheard of. BUT ... she is in the same boat as Janet now. They're both stars, have a fervent gay fanbase, and still make headlines from time to time. But niether of them is going to be culturally relevant again with the music they're making now. That is just the way it is. They should embrace being a legacy act or retire. Love them both, but neither of them is cutting-edge anymore. And I say that as an admirer of both.

This thread is about Michael Jackson though (ostensibly), and I forgot to post what I originally meant to: That Dangerous is an extremely underappreciated album. It was never one of my favorites, but it has been growing on me recently.

I don't get all this fuss over Fat Janet. She was nothing in the UK whereas Madonna was massive.

R158 I don’t agree with Madonna. She’s had several producers and none of them standout. Janet needs Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, Michael needed Quincy. Madonna didn’t need anyone.

She actually went back to Orbit and Mirwais on her last few albums and the music sucked.

True r169. Madonna was a true global star. Janet wasn't really all that outside the US.

No matter who Madonna works with, it almost always sounds like a Madonna album. When it doesn't, that's a sign the album sucks.

Haters

Are gonna

Hate…

Queen Bey is the greatest female artist of all time. That is all.

Beyoncé's a great performer but the fact she doesn't write her music nor has the influence of the likes of Whitney, Mariah, Patti or Aretha. I disagree on the greatest of all. Destiny's Child has a more memorable catalog

R177, Queen Bey has some of the most critically acclaim singles of all time. Crazy in Love ranked in the top 100 Rolling stone greatest songs of ALL time. Most of Whitney signature songs are covers. You must be a noncultured, basic taste lookin thot.

OMG we're actually comparing Whitney's catalog to Beyonce's? No contest. Most people can only name about three Beyonce songs. Whitney had some of the biggest hits in pop music history.

R178 Whitney's influence was her voice. She brought this sorta gospel-inspired sound to pop music. People still try to emulate her vocal interpretation today. Most of her signature songs were not covers at all except the Dolly and Chaka ones. While Beyoncé improved her vocals, she's still robotic and monotone and utterly lacking in soul. She made good albums but nothing about her is timeless. Almost everything she made is dated. Outside of "Crazy in Love" and "Single Ladies", the rest of catalog isn't that wide reaching. Self-titled and Lemonade were sold on image alone. She had a bunch of videos and looked pretty and others wrote the songs. It's about the spectacle which she succeeds at as an entertainer. Musical press today is just paid PR. I love your use of insults "You must be a noncultured, basic taste lookin thot. " Yeah, helps a lot with your argument and doesn't make you sound 12-years-old. Please go to school and learn to debate like an adult. If you're a grown gay man, you're embarrassing.

Janbot and Vadgebot watch out, Beybot has arrived!

Irreplaceable, Halo, If I were a boy, Run the world (gilrs) Lie again ho. Her hits are endless. Formation, best reviewed single of 2016. Drunk In Love still burning up the clubs for GEn X. Young thots talking about, 'they woke up like dis" She is the most influential artist ever since the year 2000. At any rate, you hoes tried it

[quote] She is the most influential artist ever since the year 2000. At any rate, you hoes tried it

Only influential to irritating queens and stuckup girls with personality disorder. She's not a musician, get over it. She is an entertainer with an above average voice yet forgettable catalog. So what she has pop hits, it's manufactured shit for the masses. The lyrics see unoriginal and shallow. Created by teams who research a target audience. You vapid twat. Seriously I've yet that meeting a Beyhive member who isn't an irrational asshole. Quit with the ghetto hood rat vernacular, you're likely a white twink from the suburbs.

*I've yet to meet

R183, Ho please I know nuclear engineers who love Beyonce and the only other music they listen to is alternative. Learn to love greatness, ho.

Beyonce was better than most of these hos even at 16 yrs old.

r183 is correct. Beyonce is only an icon to annoying "yassss queen" gays and Karens. She was manufactured just like Britney Spears was manufactured. No organic creativity and dumb as a post.

Only on Datalounge would Pedo Jackson be worshipped.

R188, what?! He has obsessive fans all over the net. DL is one of the few places where you can talk about his crimes without being shouted down.

Most DLers have a realistic assessment of Michael Jackson r188.

Beyonce, oh I forgot, QUEEN BEY, is a poseur. I am still not convinced she sings her own songs. There was a rumor after Destiny's Child broke up, that her sister faded into the background because she was the one singing the songs. Her father decided that the gone girl (forget her name) was the real talent, but Queen Blechh was the beauty. So wicked Queen Bey took the spotlight and forced her poor, invisible sister into singing for her. On records and live, The invisible sister had to hide behind a curtain at Queen Blechh's concerts and sing the vocal tracks. I believe it. Beyonce is a robot without an ounce of talent, presence or believability. Sure, she's pretty. And that's just about it.

R191, Stay sway from that molly and shrooms ho.

Beyoncé also lip syncs a lot. Though everyone does three days. But her stans act like she sings everything live which would honestly be impossible with all the fireworks, wind machines, instruments and dance routines. I would love to see her live because as I've said she is an excellent performer. But as a musical artist, she's mediocre. Majority of her hits were from her first three albums which were standard R&B/hip-hop songs or ballads. She focuses too much on visuals and message (vaguely worded too) over quality. She'll hire the best writers and producers yet the albums will be too polished and impersonal. Solange her sister writes her music while her voice is limited, she has more soul and thought in her singing. She's always in her sister's shadow despite being a real artist.

Let's get back to the real subject here--MJ. Someone asked about his first nose job, which I think is a great topic to explore. He definitely had his first nose job in time for the Off the Wall album. Here he is around 1976 or 1977. Compare that to the Off the Wall cover and there's a pretty drastic difference.

If you look at the Thriller cover, it appears he may have had another nose job by then. I don't think so--I think it's just conturing/angle. If you look at other photos from the Thriller shoot, it looks like the same nose.

Something definitely happened with his nose in 1984, though. Either another procedure to slim it down further OR maybe it was collapsing from the first procedure being so drastic. Either way, his bridge was looking much narrower and he had developed these weird dents which you can see in the Thriller video.

At the 1984 Grammys the underside is showing signs of collapse.

He did something drastic to either repair the collapse or just narrow it down further, because he had a pure upturned elf nose for the Victory tour.

He did something to build the bridge back up for Captain Eo.

Yeah we all know the history of his nose. You can stop now Aspieboy

But the dents were back by the time he filmed the "Bad" video.

And this concludes my tour of Michael's mid-70s through 80s nose. You're welcome.

Well someone upthread asked R200. So you don't all know. Thanks for playing, though.

Mr. Aspielounge r202 you can stop now

“ impossible with all the fireworks, wind machines, instruments and dance routines. I would love to see her live because as I've said she is an excellent”.

Broadway performers dance and sing all the time. No excuses for Bey who the media worships and fawns over for no reason. I despise her and Adele and Taylor Swift. They are all completely mediocre and don’t deserve the constant praise they receive.

R196, sadly many stars didn't stop doing coke after rhinoplasty.

He was a living Picasso painting. LaToya looked like a possessed Kabuki mask from a horror movie.

Madonna's basically the female Michael Jackson. She admitted to sleeping with young guys in her Sex book and dates barely legal guys today. She's a insecure about her fame and being irrelevant that she is lowering herself to collaborate with just about anyone. And her plastic surgery addiction which rendered her unrecognizable.

[quote]Madonna's basically the female Michael Jackson. She admitted to sleeping with young guys in her Sex book and dates barely legal guys today.

Except she's not because Michael Jackson fucked CHILDREN.

Madonna never rimmed a 7 year old. That’s all Michael.

Madonna slept with 18-24 year olds you dumbass. Mciheal was with under tens.

' And her plastic surgery addiction which rendered her unrecognizable'

Yes - at the age of 60. MJ was unrecognisable by 35.

R194, I appreciate you breaking down Michael's nose jobs! I just have always been interested in that whole subject. If I had to guess, he had about 6 nose jobs but I'm not positive. Hopefully some day a book detailing all of his surgeries will be released..

MJ only had 2 nose jobs and that is it.

[quote] MJ only had 2 nose jobs and that is it.

Typical MJ fan denial. Also MJ fans--"there is nothing wrong with him sleeping with children!"

r214, Well it isn't if theres nothing sexual going on. I know its weird but people just won't understand. He was like a godfather to many of those children. All of the children's families claiming molestation, have been proven as liars and shucksters.

[quote] , Well it isn't if theres nothing sexual going on.

Again, this is pure denial.. There is something very wrong with a man sleeping in bed with children who he is not related to. That's something a normal adult would understand implicitly. But not Michael. And he kept on doing this even after the first trial. That is not normal behavior, regardless if anything sexual happened or not.

r215 you are a know-nothing imbecile.

Jackson molested those kids. The Leaving Neverland documentary profiled two of his victims.

r217, He did no such thing and was proven innocent in a court of law. Fuck you trolls who try to tarnish his name. Michael was many things; predator is not one of them. Its unfair to tarnish his name and legacy in death.

I think r218 is just trolling.

MJ was clearly a pedophile. He was criminally insane. His attachment to children was not normal behavior. If he was a third grade teacher and invited his male students over to his house for sleepovers the parents would all be calling the police.

[quote]The Leaving Neverland documentary profiled two greedy liars.

R213, sure only 2 official nose jobs and about 20 "corrective" procedures.

Thank you r220. MJ was one the kindest most gentle souls in all of humanity. He was a brilliant peformer and his music is iconic.

The two guys in the Leaving Neverland doc were telling the truth, only an idiot would think they were lying. They had nothing to gain from it.

Leaving Neverland profiled two grifters.

They were telling the truth. What Jackson did to them should've had him sent straight to prison.

MJ was a pedophile. His childlike mannerisms, obsession with children and how he coddled them, touched them and sleep in the same bed. Many men work with children and adore them but they do not see children as peers and establish that boundary. Most men would want to spend every minute with a child who is not theirs or a relative. Children are cute but extremely annoying that even parents want a break from them.

MJ didn't love all children. He was not seen with little girls. Why would he exclude half of the child population? Where were the little black boys? Why would a proud Black man not favor mentoring the boys of his own race? Where were the autistic, intellectually disabled, obese or handicapped kids? And why were all these little boys, beautiful white or Hispanic boys between 9 to 13. Why did he discard them after they became pubescents?

* Most men would not want to spend every minute with a child who is not theirs or a relative.

No such thing occured.

What did Michael Jackson and pimples have in common?

They both came all over your face at age twelve.

The fact that Madonna fucks 25 year olds is the only interesting thing she has left these days.

Dave Chapelle said if Macaulay wasn’t molested then nobody could have been molested. I guess he’s over looking the fact Jackson targeted vulnerable parents who were reliant on him for work or money Macaulay was making money on his own so his parents didn’t need Jackson’s.

Wade Robsons no try we was out on Jackson’s payroll and I don’t think she actually did any work for him. Jackson’s bought Safechucks parents a house and cards and other things.

*Robsons mother.

'Michael was many things; predator is not one of them. Its unfair to tarnish his name and legacy in death'

Only a fellow pedo would defend Jacko in 2022.

[quote] They had nothing to gain from it.

Except a payday, which they tried to get but failed after LN aired.

Michael was seen with children of many races. African, Asian, White, Latino. He was close to Emmanuel Lewis in the '80s. Chynna Phillips just said on her Youtube channel today that Michael once called her house to ask her mother Michelle if Chynna could go to the circus with him and his mother. He loved girls, boys, black, white, what-have-you.

I think the Neverland train station timeline slip up in the LN documentary was proof that it was a sham.

'I think the Neverland train station timeline slip up in the LN documentary was proof that it was a sham.'

FUCK OFF TRAIN STATION TROLL

Thriller

Invincible was his worst album if you use Off the Wall as the starting point of his solo career.

Otw.