The Silence of the Lambs (1991)

Saw this in North CAROLLLLINNAAA when I was eighteen. I have not recovered since.

Hopkins is eiter irritating or brilliant n his roles - think Dracula - but he was impeccable in this one. Who were his ancestors? The imagination boggles.

I've seen it SO many times that I sort of go on auto pilot when watching it. I have to think back to seeing it the first one or two times and how effectively it sets the sinister tone and what a revelation Hannibal Lector is. Eventually he becomes camp after repeated viewings, but not when I first saw it. He was disturbing. Foster is really great - ambitious, yet a bit of imposter syndrome, smart, and carrying her own baggage. Great casting.

Basically just a good crime/horror story with no real meaning or depth. The book was well plotted but poorly written. Just shows how low our standards of "great" have become.

Hopkins was a quaint British thespian who appeared in a few big films- A Bridge Too Far, The Elephant Man, and Bounty.

Didn't gay men protest the Buffalo Bill character? Nobody cares anymore.

Hopkins was a quaint British thespian with a severe drinking problem. He was a character actor rather than a movie star and he took on shit roles like Hollywood Wives and Barbara Taylor Bradford's To Be The Best.

Then after Lambs he became a serious movie star. 4 Oscar noms in the 90s, and would have had another if Shadowlands and Remains Of The Day hadn't been released in the same season.

It was Diane Baker's comeback movie too. She was big in the 1960's and then her career dried up.

Didn't Hopkins relish being a movie star? No "I'm just doing this for the money so I can turn around and do my passion projects - deep, meaningful, independent films and plays." I think I read an interview with him stating that becoming a box office draw, acting in big budget movies, being a true "movie star" was everything he wanted.

There's a street of Victorian houses I walk past where some of the houses have the name engraved in to the arch above the door. Every time I see "Belvedere" I think of Belvedere Ohio and poor tragic great big fat person Frederica Bimmel.

Hopkins appears in less than 15 minutes of a 2 hour movie.

IT PUTS THE LOTION ON THE SKIN OR IT GETS THE HOSE AGAIN

He makes those 15 minutes count!

As does cocky and inept Dr. Childress.

I remember reading that the First Lady at the time (I think she was a Bush): 1) did not want to have the movie screened in the White House (violence! controversy! oh, noes!); and 2) at an entirely separate time, was having veal served at a dinner.

1–Movie, in which everything is faked 2–Food, that suffered torture every minute of its life and was then slaughtered

Seems like just the kind of clear thinking you’d expect from Those People.

Jodie deserved her Oscar for this. She DID NOT deserve the 1988 win!

It was no "Melvin and Howard."

Clarice

Saw this on my first date with my first boyfriend. By the climax, when Jodie is in the pitch black basement, I was practically in his lap, I was so terrified.

^MARY!!!!^

[quote]Jodie deserved her Oscar for this. She DID NOT deserve the 1988 win!

She deserved her Oscar in 1988 too. It was a year of amazing Best Actress performances. All of the nominees could have won and people would always gripe, "X was robbed!" Jodie gave a very nuanced performance. It wasn't showy but subtle. You really need to watch it more than once.

R19 The only person who was robbed of the Oscar was Betty Bacall in 1997. Juliet Binoche did NOT deserve the Oscar.

The scenes between Foster and Hopkins are absolutely everything

Migs is the best part.

Don't you make me hurt your dog! 🐩

Jodie was her usual wooden self.

It works for a something-to-prove FBI agent.

I think Diane Baker stole the movie.

I have no idea why they cast Scott Glenn in this, and I say that as a huge fan.

I actually think Jodie deserved the 1988 Accused Oscar and not this one -- recently rewatched and she can't match Hopkins in their scenes -- she tries too hard and he pulls off his performance without seeming to try.

That said, it's one of my all time favorite films. Just about everything works. The scene where she shows up at the wrong address just slays me. Two pscyho killers for the price of one, the use of "American Girl," the cute entomologist flirting scene, Chris Isaac's big bulge cameo, -- it's all just wonderful.

Also Binoche > Bacall.

Senator Martin never answered the slab question. Where will it tickle (tingle?) if Catherine is on the slab?

[Quote] Basically just a good crime/horror story with no real meaning or depth. The book was well plotted but poorly written. Just shows how low our standards of "great" have become.

Did you watch the same film as everyone else? There is actually a great deal of commentary in this film about gender and class. The entire thing is filmed in a manner to point out and critique the male gaze and and how men look down upon women. Clarice’s struggle to get her foot in the door in a male dominated field is an issue that women still face 30 years later.

He shed ah kin shmell yer cunt

This is my favorite film of all time. I make sure to watch it at least once a year.

Fuck off contrarian cunt r3. This film is a stone cold classic. It created a whole genre and an interest in forensic science and true crime. It is one of the most influential films of all time.

That's Dr Chilton, r12

[quote] Jodie gave a very nuanced performance. It wasn't showy but subtle. You really need to watch it more than once.

I think Jodie got the Oscar for The Accused mainly because of the scene with the phone call with her mother. That was gut-wrenching, her mother didn't care about her at all.

[Quote] The book was well plotted but poorly written

Sure, okay. Much of the dialogue in the film is lifted word for word from the book. The screenplay won an Oscar and is quotable to this day.

[quote]The scene where she shows up at the wrong address just slays me.

That scene has been ripped off countless times in movies and tv shows over the past 30 years.

Thank you, R34: I thought it sounded off.

R37 but Silence of the Lambs did it first! Most recently, the entire house of horrors climax was ripped off in the HBO hit miniseries Mare of Easttown.

[quote]There is actually a great deal of commentary in this film about gender and class.

Nobody really cared about Buffalo Bill that much because the girls he was killing were "white trash." Then Catherine Martin, the Senator's daughter got abducted and suddenly the FBI was obsessed with capturing Buffalo Bill because Martin was so prominent and "not like those other girls." That said so much about American society.

Clarice was determined to capture Bill because she identified with the poor, rural girls who were his victims, who nobody gave a shit about.

Anthony Hopkins' performance in "The Father" is really remarkable, another deserved win.

The movie is beautifully shot. The cinematography is superb. Certainly an art that seems lost these days.

I'd love to see the movie in the cinema. I was under age when it came out so my mum went to Blockbuster and got the VHS for me. She refused to watch it with me but eventually watched it a few years later after the French & Saunders version.

R40 those rural folks “who nobody gave a shit about” constantly feeling ignored is exactly what led many people to vote for President Trump in 2016. The film’s depiction of Americans looking down upon and ignoring their fellow citizens who they deem lesser IS social commentary.

R43 Turner Classic Movies re-released it in theaters in October 2021 for the film’s 30th anniversary. I went and it was glorious. I hope that you too can see the film some day on the big screen.

I also saw it in the theater when it first came out. You just dont get the same feeling watching it at home.

The film just stunned me when it first came out. I must have gone back to the movies to see it again several times. Totally creepy and totally irresistible. I even developed a crush on Anthony Hopkins. Oddly, the only male lead Jodie ever had sexual chemistry with was him.

Hopkins had been working at the National for several years when he got cast in Silence, mostly Shakespeare - King Lear, Anthony and Cleopatra (with Judi Dench). He was brilliant in Pravda, a David Hare play about Rupert Murdoch. After that play came out and Hopkins got enormous acclaim for the role which eviscerated Murdoch, Murdoch upped sticks and left the UK for the US. So maybe we can blame Hopkins for that. Hopkins always said he hated doing theatre, especially Shakespeare, but wasn't getting any interesting film work at the time.

Only on Data Lounge could people bitch about an iconic performance like Foster’s in SotL and say that she was undeserving of her Oscar. In comparison to what? Recent “deserving” winners like Jennifer Lawrence, Brie Larson and Emma Stone? Please, my sides.

R48 Juliette Binoche did not deserve her Oscar either. Betty Bacall should have won!

The other Best Actress nominees for 1991:

Geena Davis in Thelma & Louise

Laura Dern in Rambling Rose

Bette Midler in For the Boys

Susan Sarandon in Thelma & Louise

I would presume that Davis and Sarandon cancelled each other out. Midler's film was a flop. Dern's film was a critic's darling that barely expanded beyond the art house. I suspect Foster, despite the previous Oscar, won in a walk.

Hopkins' competition:

Warren Beatty in Bugsy

Robert De Niro in Cape Fear

Nick Nolte in The Prince of Tides

Robin Williams in The Fisher King

This one might've been closer: I recall Nolte as the biggest competition -- his film was a hit and People magazine had named him the Sexiest Man Alive, so he was a huge star at the time.

Actually only partially true R40. Catherine was the first woman that they KNEW was abducted by Bill and they knew they only had a short period of time before he killed her so they cranked up the manhunt in order to save her. The other victim's post mortems provided the clues that helped identify this as "Another Buffalo Bill type situation." At no point do they suggest that any of the victims were "white trash." They were just poor and fit the killer's profile.

Poor old Multiple Meigs. He didn't deserve to get talked into swallowing his tongue and choking to death by Lecter. He just wanted to fling his cum and call Jodie Foster a cunt. Heck, that's just about everybody on DL on a Tuesday afternoon!

R53 wins DL

You fly back to your school now, little Starling. Fly, Fly, Fly.

Diane Baker was the only disappointing performance in this film, the rest of the cast were perfect. Jessica Walter would have been the best choice.

We never found out if Starling got it on with those nerds with the Smithsonian at the FBI After Party. Did they run a train on Starling and Ardelia???

Foster is very good, but the performance has become a bit overrated.

I think Michelle Pfeiffer would have been better than Foster but she turned it down.

r52 they didn't have a massive manhunt when the other girls were abducted. They didn't care about the white trash girls.

I think Jodie is terrific in both Silence and The Accused. I think she was a deserving two-time Oscar winner as well as - a controversial choice - Hilary Swank. Having said that, I wonder how Pfeiffer would have fared in the role. Life Foster, I think Pfeiffer is great at showing vulnerability behind a brave front.

I don't think Brooke Smith gets enough credit for her performance. She doesn't play the typical damsel in distress. She's mouthy and swears a lot.

Jodie Foster is the film’s beating heart and she gives it its human soul. The picture simply would not work without her. If anything, in the present day, I don’t think she is given enough credit for how much she contributed to the film’s success and its lasting legacy.

^ Agree, I like when Clarice finds her and starts to leave the dirt hole area and Catherine screams something like "get me outta here, you fucking bitch!" You didn't hear too many women say stuff like that in the movies in 1991.

A very good movie. I watched this movie again a few years back

R56 Why do you say Baker was disappointing? I thought she did well and should have been in more scenes, like in the novel.

I saw it in the theatre with my roommate. We were college-aged and turned into huge MARYs by the film's end. We'd gotten a ride to the theatre but wound up calling a cab to get back to the dorm. I kept expecting the cabbie to turn around and have Anthony Hopkins' face. It's great fun to be frightened when you know you aren't really in any danger. A peak film experience.

Gay rights advocates protested The Buffalo Bill and his little dog , Precious . This abhorrent stereotype of gay men in drag ,who hated women because they wanted to be them . It was an excellent movie no question. It was too violent and gruesome.

There was sort of a disconnect between stately, well-coiffed Senator Martin and Catherine who lived in that unimpressive apartment and seemed trashier than her mom.

Whatever happened to Precious?

Try watching it stoned. It's a-mazing!

Catherine Martin loved singing along to Tom Petty while cruising down the Memphis highways.

I still use the term "Hay Little Cheeper" in a hick accent when I see someone's cat in the window.

It's a nearly perfect film. My only gripe is the fake-out where you see the raid team ring the bell on one house, then cut to Bill hearing the bell, then him answering the door and it Clarise alone. I thought that was cheating a bit.

Homophobic trash. And the very idea that the FBI would be flying profilers around the nation on a dedicated plane is hilarious.

I agree with r63. I enjoyed some of the other Hannibal films with Hopkins but none of them are as good as Silence. And one of the reasons is Jodie is not in them. Silence doesn't work without either of them, and definitely wouldn't work without Foster. She carries pretty much the entire film.

I love Jodie Foster. I wish she acted in more movies.

Michelle Pfeiffer would have been too pretty for the role and she doesn't convey intelligence like Jodie does.

Foster goes head to head with Lecter and she's smart enough to keep up with him and even earn his respect.

Bring it to Broadway!

[quote]This abhorrent stereotype of gay men in drag ,who hated women because they wanted to be them .

Jessica Vaniv says hi.

I still wonder where Diane Baker's character bought her suit. Obviously Hannibal Lecter wondered the same thing.

[quote] Basically just a good crime/horror story with no real meaning or depth. The book was well plotted but poorly written. Just shows how low our standards of "great" have become.

Agreed! It’s not that good.

It’s one of only two “recent” films where I felt so proud of the Academy. This one and The Shape Of Water. It just gave me a little bump of joy that there was some fantastical and great moments in the otherwise dreariness of life these days.

Excellent film. It was better than the novel upon which it was based.

The very first 1990 teaser trailer

Over the top movie

But in a good way.

So everyone used to protest it for being homophobic, but now DL likes it because it's transphobic?

One of my favorite films, OP. I know taste is subjective but in my opinion Jodie Foster is brilliant. And its perfect that they didn't cast a "pretty" actress in the role. Hopkins is criminally brilliant also but should have been supporting not lead for Oscars. I've seen this movie a million times and it never gets old. All the minor characters are perfectly cast too.

Brilliant film. I love the scene where Clarice is in Buffalo Bill's house and he asks her if the FBI has any fingerprints, description, etc. She has a sudden eureka moment and sneers no, no we don't. Love Jodie there.

[quote]And its perfect that they didn't cast a "pretty" actress in the role

Fuck you, r87.

I think part of what makes it great - beyond everything that's been talked about - is that it was an adult "movie movie" - a thriller/drama with an engaging story that was clear and concise, but wasn't (1) a superhero franchise or otherwise in the vein of today's blockbusters, or (2) overly arty or "difficult" - like the types of movies that get nominated for best picture today, which are no doubt often very good, but not many people see. We don't see as many of this type of movie anymore.

It failed to scare me and it was supposed to. I detested Jodie Foster's whispering "acting" (a totally undeserved Oscar) and I thought the only thing worth noting was Hopkins' performance.

And even 30 years ago I found it truly homophobic.

I remember being an article that the choice of music in the film was very progressive at the time.

Like Tom Petty's American Girl and Goodbye Horses, which I found out only a couple of years ago that the singer is a female

r91 is ridiculous

Why? R91 is just sharing an opinion.

This giant steaming pile of a movie is hopelessly cringey.

Sorry but SE7EN is a superior serial killer film in both filmmaking and performances.

Goodbye Horses was also used in Married to the Mob, or at least, it was on the soundtrack. Great song.

Speaking of music, I can't believe Howard Shore's score wasn't even nominated for an Oscar.

R96 No, it isn’t. The end.

R96, Nah and Seven is one of my favorite films as well. Silence of the Lambs is a perfect film.

Se7en is a masterpiece. SotL is not bad but far from the accolades it got.

[quote] she tries too hard

That’s the essence of Clarice and why Foster’s performance is so great. She tries just a little too hard and the men around her in the FBI can tell, and Dr. Lector can tell too.

I remember trying to see this opening weekend in February 1991 and it was sold out. So, we ended up seeing Sleeping with the Enemy, which had come out a week earlier. The movie was already a phenomenon when it was released.

Foster totally deserved her Oscar. I can't think of any other female performance that topped hers with the exception of Geena and Susan in Thelma & Louise and Annette Bening in Bugsy (who should have been nominated). Linda Hamilton's is probably almost as iconic as Foster's, though one would argue that.

Hopkins has been fantastic recently, not just in The Father but also in The Two Popes, which was surprisingly great.

Seven? Lol.

R96 & R100 There would be no Se7en without Silence of the Lambs. Just like the lesser but still great Copycat with Sigourney Weaver and Holly Hunter. Silence inspired a whole genre and while Se7en is great it does not surpass it.

I saw Seven in the cinema in the first screening on the first day of release.

I still remember the screams in the audience when the person you thought was dead turned out not to be.

The bug guys are at their graduation and the one wants his picture taken with Ardelia so I think they are both dating.

All the people who think Silence of the Lambs is better than Se7en don't understand anything about great writing, directing and acting. Silence of the Lambs is a cartoon compared to the brilliant Se7en. Jonathan Demme was a fine filmmaker with an admirably compassionate, progressive sensibility, but David Fincher is the greater film artist. And Se7en is the greater film. End of discussion.

"but Silence of the Lambs did it first! Most recently, the entire house of horrors climax was ripped off in the HBO hit miniseries Mare of Easttown."

Incorrect. "Mare" was inspired by Gary Heidnik from Philly.

Se7en disturbed me more than Silence did, but to say it’s the better film is ridiculous.

WHATH IN THE BOXTH

I somewhat agree that SIlence of the Lambs has no special depth, but it is a great movie (sort of a modern horror fairy tale). It is hard now to really understand its influence in films, tv and culture. At the time it was new. On the other hand it also led the way to the normalization of gore, over the top serial killers, etc.

I actually agree that Seven is a better movie, but it would never exist without Silence of the Lambs. And it is one of those movies i have no wish to see again.

Seven doesn't really work as a drama and SOL does. Seven is very well done suspenseful crime mystery. SOL functions as a drama, thriller, and horror movie. It is also a character study.

I liked the "Hannibal" book better, but the movie wasn't quite as good as Silence.

What so you guys think of the film's sequels. Hannibal though very entertaining is not a great film. Julianne Moore, though competent, seems to be acting while JF was a natural in the role. Also where is Clarice suppose to be from. Moore's Clarice sounds southern while JF sounds Midwestern or Appalachian. The plot twist in Hannibal are so over the top and contrived, typical of these kinds of films being made in the early aughts. Ray Liotta's character is a one dimensional buffoon and not believable. Hannibal himself is kinda diminished because he seems too powerful, too genius.

I think Red Dragon was more a return to form. I love the scene when Anthony Hopkins asks Ed Norton what was special about him in that he was able to capture him. Norton responds he had disdantages and Hannibal presses him. Norton responds, "You're insane". The exchange between the two and the facial expressions are perfectly executed, top notch acting.

r109 it was ripped off from SOL. I immediately recognized it when I watched Mare.

I was a senior in high school and our English teacher was reading this book. She referenced it somehow in a lecture one day and our class pricked up its ears because she was talking about some of the more gruesome scenes. One by one, we borrowed the book from her over the next couple months. This was overseas, so the availability at a library was nil and other copies were hard to come by, having been snatched up at the PX Bookstore.

I was pretty naive then, even about sex. I knew what it was, what went where, and the fluids involved. But when I got to the scene in the book when Multiple Miggs flings his cum on Clarice I was pretty surprised and squicked out. I DID enjoy Miggs' background: that he put his Mother's head in the collection plate at Church. "They were singing 'Give of Your All to the Lord' and it was the only thing he had."

We knew the movie was coming, and when it did, we were only going to have a week to see it. Movies stayed for a week at a time at the Base Theater. I went with my best friend at the time; we were both excited to see what they would bring forth to the screen. The minute that semen landed on Clarice's face we looked at each other, terrified now to see exactly how far they were going to take the book. Needless to say we were NOT disappointed.

It was a great memory, and a great movie. Still is.

Seven often plays as camp; I could never take it seriously and thus it never scared me. It was just gory and stupid.

Silence of the Lambs has some camp elements, but it's so well integrated into the drama that it feels organic. Plus, it's genuinely terrifying.

I love the atmosphere and pacing of Seven. But it is very a much a genre film, and that is not necessarily a bad thing. I love the mentor/student dynamic between Morgan and Pitt. And of course that last scene is...Woah. The precedimg car scene makes it very ironic and satisfying.

^^Preceding**

Hannibal is the best book out of the trilogy

I liked Hannibal. It got trashed when it came out. It was OTT Gothic horror.

Hopkins was also great in King Lear with Emma Thompson playing evil Regan. He's having quite an extraordinary run of performances in old age. Meanwhile, when is the last time Jodie gave a decent performance?

Was it Hannibal where Giancarlo Giannini gets thrown out of a window, ripping his torso open, and his guts spilling out on the plaza below? I walked out of the theater after that scene.

The great thing about The Silence of the Lambs was that it appeared to be gory, but really wasn't -- the brilliant direction, cinematography, and editing lead you to believe you're seeing more than you actually are.

r123 shimied on out of theater, in a colorful craftan demanding his money back and questioning why this film hadn't been rated NC-17. His boundaries had been stated.

In reality, r124, I was wearing a t-shirt and jeans. I had gone with friends, so I just turned to them and said, "I'll wait for you in the lobby." I didn't have a problem with the rating and didn't demand my money back. Good thing I always take a book with me everywhere I go.

r125, Aww good sport. I was just trying to be comical btw. Hope your having a great day.

R125 you missed out when Hopkins ate Ray Liotta's brains.

[quote]Meanwhile, when is the last time Jodie gave a decent performance?

She won a Golden Globe for The Mauritanian but no one else was that impressed.

R122 and R128 Probably Inside Man with Clive Owen, Denzel Washington, Willem Dafoe, and Christopher Plummer.

[quote][R122] and [R128] Probably Inside Man with Clive Owen, Denzel Washington, Willem Dafoe, and Christopher Plummer.

That was an outstanding performance. Madeline White was truly a magnificent cunt and Jodie played the part perfectly.

I don't remember much about Carnage and her impression of Tilda Swinton in Elysium wasn't very good.

Scott Glenn was awesome as always.

[quote]Was it Hannibal where Giancarlo Giannini gets thrown out of a window, ripping his torso open, and his guts spilling out on the plaza below? I walked out of the theater after that scene.

Fucking pussy

Inside Man is a fantastic movie, if you haven't seen it don't let the fact that it's a Spike Lee movie turn you off. It's a great heist movie with a great twist. And Jodie and Christopher Plummer were very good.

Not to hijack this thread, but Inside Man was the best Sidney Lumet film he never made. And say what you will about Spike Lee’s bluster, in terms of pure technique he’s always been a smart and exceptional director.

It's hard to talk about Inside Man without giving out multiple spoilers, so I'll just say if you haven't seen it go watch it. Fabulous movie.

Buffalo Bill, the face of the trans movement for sure.

Hopkins is OTT.

Spike Lee's "Summer of Sam" is another good one, with the serial killer on the periphery.

You confused Miggs' background with Sammie the inmate who had the cell after Miggs' "suicide". Miggs was just a cunt. R117

I still can't believe that Buffalo Bill and the police guy on Monk are the same person. Buffalo Bill was sexy, Monk guy not so much. And before you say he just got older, it wasn't much older.

[quote] Buffalo Bill was sexy

??? DAFUK????

R141, Crying. It suspends disbelief. Too funny.

R141 would do me.

I mean R140, sorry. Have been cleaning the basement today, all worn out.

[quote] And say what you will about Spike Lee’s bluster, in terms of pure technique he’s always been a smart and exceptional director.

I love everything about Spike Lee. Sui generis. Glad he is in the world.

[quote] Hopkins is OTT.

Well, he eats people. As he makes them watch.

Was Buffalo Bill a trannie?

R147 Is a great big fat person.

Duh! R148. packing 350

[quote]David Fincher is the greater film artist. And Se7en is the greater film

Great at boring me. It was ok when I saw it in the theater, but every time I try to rewatch it, I end up switching channels after a few minutes.

SOL is homophobic trash, period.

R151 Can you point out any of its homophobia? Who are the gays in SotL who are abused? Thanks x

Is the argument that SOL is homophobic because it only features one LGBT character and that is serial killer, Buffalo Bill. I find that very problematic when it comes to art. I am very much for representation but is one's artistic license supposed to be compromised in the name of making one group or identity not seem negative. I do not understand the logic of why SOL is homophobic. Buffalo Bill is a serial killer after all; one would have to have the intellect of a 9 yr old to reduce that means that all Trans persons are serial killers.

In addition doesn't Hannibal summize that BB is not even truly Trans, he only thinks he is from years of trauma.

Hopkins is in a new film at Cannes and getting rave reviews for his performance, critics saying he'll be nominated again. He certainly got his second wind.

Everyone gets raves at Cannes.

R155 not from miserable git David Ehrlich of Indiefilm they don't.

But only Miss Dunaway is the hit of Cannes and all Europe.

I like Se7en but CONTAGION for the same reason.

Spoiler

Paltrow DIES in both of them!

Michelle Pfeiffer & Meg Ryan - Why I Turned Down Silence Of The Lambs

Meg and Michelle best not be leaning against Jodie Foster like that, not unless they mean business!

The idiots calling SoTL "homophobic" clearly wasn't paying attention. Buffalo Bill is not gay nor is he transgendered (he's an autogynephile). He has no personality or identity and has struggled to fit in his entire life. He even used to be a homophobe who went gay bashing. It's mentioned in both the book and the film. He has tried to be many different people in his life.

Buffalo Bill (Jame Gumb) is a misogynistic, heterosexual autogynephile.

But that was far too nuanced a take for those times, R161. Back then he was just a murderous queer.

I'm talking about movie audiences, BTW. I did read the book.

[quote] Buffalo Bill (Jame Gumb) is a misogynistic, heterosexual autogynephile.

I know who could play BB in a reboot--our gorgeous and sexy Cait! She would nail the "I would fuck me" scene!

No reboot! You can't better perfection.

R40 nailed it.

This is a great film, no debate. Maybe the last great film. Definitely the best of the 90s and maybe of all cinema since the studio system ended.

[quote]Buffalo Bill was sexy

WHAAA-AAAAAT???

Ok, ok. SOL is not better than the Gofather, Taxi Driver, There will be Blood, or even Brokeback Mountain.

It's better than all of them, R168. Godfather is so overrated. Are you straight or a butch dyke??

R169, I'm gay. Well bisexual, but I identify as a gay man.

It is SO much better than Brokeback Frau Mountain.

The novel "Silence of the Lambs" was an interesting read, but inaccurate. The FBI does not send trainees out to find serial killers.

There was never any "real life Hannibal Lector." There's never been a highly intelligent serial killer with elegance and impeccable manner who functions perfectly in society and is highly respected as in his profession. Serials do not function perfectly and behave normally. That's part of being a serial killer.

The movie version of SOTL is one of the most overrated films of all time. Anthony Hopkin's performance is pure ham. Jodie Foster's trembly, twitchy, nervous, seemingly terrified performance as Clarice Starling is totally at odd with the way Starling was depicted in the book. In the novel Clarice Starling is one cool customer; she wants to be an FBI agent, so she knows she HAS to be that way. Only rarely does ever ever lose or cool, or get flustered. She doesn't let it happen, if she can help it.

There Will Be Blood? More like There Will be Boredom.

IM DoNe!

buffalo bill is not the only gay character so are rathspell and lechter

Don'[t forget the context too It was released around the same time as that other homophobic trash film 'No Way Out'

How is No Way Out homophobic trash? It was also released four years before in 1987 so hardly around the same time.

gay assistant to the secretary kills himself to protect the secretary's reputation owing to an unrequited gay crush. What is wrong with you fucking idiots?! Hollywood's antigay slurs were all over popular culture at the time.

Hannibal Lecter's sexual orientation was never revealed in any of the books or movies IIRC. It's been a long time since I've read any of the books, but I can't recall any mention of a romantic partner at any time in Lecter's life.

That's not homophobia r178. It's a plot point. And not quite as outlandish as the twist at the end of that film.

Lecter develops a romantic interest in Starling, but I can't recall if that was just in the film or in the books too?

No he doesn't develop a romantic interest in her. Just in being chivalrous

Could you be any dumber? It was clear Costner was the Soviet spy about ten minutes into the movie

The way read Hannibal, it was ambiguous whether or not Lecter and Clarice were actually in a sexual relationship at the end of the book. They ran away together and lived together but it could've just been companionship rather than anything sexual. I guess that was up to the reader.

That ending was a total mindfuck, it just seemed so out of place.

The way I read Hannibal, was what I meant.

Yes he does develop a romantic interest in her. He even asks her if she would consider fleeing with him. She rejects him and he responds with "that's my girl," R182.

It plashesh the loshion in the bashket or it getsh the hosesh.

The moth experts were definitely fucking, even though one made an awkward flirtatious remark to Clarice.

[quote} The way read Hannibal, it was ambiguous whether or not Lecter and Clarice were actually in a sexual relationship at the end of the book.

No, it wasn't. It stated clearly they were fucking each other:

"Their relationship has a great deal to do with the penetration of Clarice Starling, which she avidly welcomes and encourages. It has much to do with the envelopment of Hannibal Lecter, far beyond the bounds of his experience. It is possible that Clarice Starling could frighten him. Sex is a splendid structure they add to every day."

If I recall correctly, Clarice let Lecter suck on her titties in Hannibal the novel. I thought their romance made no sense, but I think it was implied that Lecter had somehow hypnotized her.

In that dreadful book "Hannibal" Clarice Starling, moral person that she is, cannot stand the thought of Hannibal Lecter being tortured and killed by his arch enemy Mason Verger (Verger is the villain in "Hannibal" NOT Lecter). During a gunfight Starling gets wounded. Lecter takes her back to his lair and tenderly takes care of her until she recovers. He keeps her in "a pleasant room" and gives her nice clothes to wear and is a perfect gentleman. Through mind games, drugs and hypnosis Lecter easily reduces the strong, moral, capable, intelligent, tough Starling to the state of sniveling little girl, weeping and wailing about how her Daddy "short shucked" his shotgun and got himself killed. After some time of this Lecter planes a memorable evening for Starling; he gives her an "exquisite" beaded dinner dress to wear and emerald jewelry to complete her look. He then prepares her a dinner that consists of human brains taken straight from the source. They belong to Starling's arch enemy Paul Krendler. Starling eats her dinner of human brains with relish. After their repast Lecter and Starling retire to a room with a nice fire going in a fireplace. Starling asks Lecter if he resented "giving up the breast" to his little sister after she born. His little sister was eaten by Nazis (don't ask me to explain that). Lecter tells her he didn't mind giving up his mother's titty to his little sister. Starling says "You won't have to give up this one" and hauls out her breast, which Lecter, on bended knee, sucks. "Hannibal" is probably one of the worst books ever written.

And then Lecter motorboated Clarice! WTF?

I wish I had never read the end of this thread, ugh.

God, I remember when Hannibal (the book) came out, people were having meltdowns over it.

After reading that sample excerpt, I can understand why.

Was Harris working out some personal shit or just trolling everybody?

Why was SotL considered homophobic? Because it was one in a number of movie thrillers, probably beginning with Psycho, where LGBT characters were portrayed as homicidal and their psychopathy was linked to their sexuality. By the time SotL came out, we were in the middle of the AIDS pandemic and gay men were the target of much hate and derision because of their sexuality. It seemed quite insensitive that Jodie Foster, a closet lesbian (known as such at least among gays, lesbians and film people) would agree to participate in a movie that played on that old cliche so openly and, frankly, in such a nauseating way.

Having never seen the movie or read the book, now I understand why Demme and Foster both passed on Hannibal. Yikes.

Silence of the Lambs was in Oscar contention with JFK and Basic Instinct had just opened in theaters. It got lumped in with all gay people in movies are killers. But as said above Silence has no LGbT characters.

[quote] Buffalo Bill (Jame Gumb) is a misogynistic, heterosexual autogynephile.

In other words, a typical trans woman.

Hannibal the book was OTT. Harris was aiming for Gothic horror/romance and he couldn't pull it off. I think he was tormented by all the attention Silence got. Had it been less successful, he might not have developed writer's block which resulted in Hannibal. I saw him once in person, walking in Geneva, Switzerland. He was very tall and very fat. I think he moved to Switzerland to hide away.

Dr. Rachel Levine could play Jame Gumb if they remake Silence.

Back in 1991 no one knew what autogynephile was. If you tucked your dick between your legs wearing make-up and dancing around like a girl, audiences thought - perverted murderous faggot.

you mean:

"Back in 1991 no one knew what autogynephile was. If you tucked your dick between your legs wearing make-up and dancing around like a girl WHILE YOU KIDNAP AND KILL WOMEN TO REMOVE THEIR SKIN TO MAKE A SUIT audiences thought - perverted murderous faggot.

Yes, I meant that.

Hannibal suffered from the lack of a strong editor at the publisher who could send the manuscript back to Thomas Harris and say 'this is shit - fix it'

When this came out and I was 15 the one thing that vexed me was that it was just too contrived for a man called Hannibal to be a cannibal.

Peter the human eater I could accept,

One of a handful of movies I can watch yearly and be completely engrossed in. I also notice something new each time. Last time was how many staircases Clarice has to descend before reaching Barney and Lecter's lair. They must be half a mile underground, lol.

I think the movie has depth in it's treatment of sexism, class and politics. The point is subtly made that these girls are disposable until a Senators daughter is nabbed. How long would Bill have been able to go on killing had he not chosen Catherine. The sense of rust belt America on a decline is palpable. Brilliant art direction by Kristi Zea, who I was amazed to learn did Goodfellas the year before, WOW.

[quote] Hopkins was a quaint British thespian with a severe drinking problem. He was a character actor rather than a movie star and he took on shit roles

Fuck you!

My favorite of Hopkins' early performances is Magic (1978), as a ventriloquist "possessed" by his puppet. It's a solid, character-driven thriller directed by Richard Attenborough and featuring a terrific supporting cast including Ann-Margret, Burgess Meredith, and Ed Lauter.

It's announced at Cannes that Hopkins is going to be playing Freud in a new film called Freud's Last Case. His Oscar certainly made him the most in-demand 80 something actor alive.

It'sh more like: "It putsh the loshionsh on itsh shkin, elsh itsh getsh the hoshesh again!"

Pity about poor Catherine, though. Tiktok, tiktok, tiktok.

Eww Buffalo Trans Bill gross

Hopkins was great in a British film called The Good Father about a man who was a lousy father, whose wife (the wonderful Harriet Walter) hates him and who has an affair with Joanne Whalley and falls into a deep depression. Maybe that's what happened to Val Kilmer.

Well, in fairness R212, his transition would probably have been better received if it didn't involve a skin suit made of women.

What was that TV series "Clarice" like? Got cancelled pretty fast so I assume not good.

I watched the first three eps and it was pretty bad.

I just watched this film again this week after first seeing it 3 decades ago in the early 90s.

I LOL at the length of time HL had to play his music, string the one guy up like a moth that high all by himself, cut the other guy's face off, place him on top of the elevator, clean up all of the blood from dragging a freshly killed guy (with no mop, bucket, etc.) so no one would see a bloody trail, lay down with the victim's face on top of his with a lack of blood, no one in the ambulance crew noticing that a face is on top of another one etc. etc.

When you think about how that series of events went down so smoothly, the film hits the skids with that implausible chain of events.

With not 1 but 2 guards missing from delivering a simple meal to HL (that would take about a minute or two based on the room size) you would think that both of them being gone for so long (to do all that HL did) someone would've noticed something went wrong from such performing a small routine move.

I've never even read/seen a critic like Ebert ripping on the film for that kind of scripted crap being put to film.

r217 You sir, are underestimating Lecter's intelligence. You must be from West Virginia ? Aren't you ?

Why didn't Senator Martin fly out to Baltimore rather than have Dr. Lecter transferred to Memphis so she can interview him?

R35 the rape sequence was gut wrenching. I remember thinking at the time there's no way she wont win an Academy Award for that. I saw it in a theatre and left me disturbed for the rest of the night. I was young and didn't truly know what rape meant but in the pit of my stomach i knew was awful. Mary!

Pfieffer has said it was a mistake to turn down but praised Jodie's performance by saying it went the the way it was meant to.

R215, I tried to watch it, but it sucked. Clearly filmed in Toronto, and it looked drab and dreary, I guess they were going for 'moody.' The worst part was when a trans FBI worker got mad at Clarice for the way Buffalo Bill made 'the community' look bad, and Clarice tearfully apologizing. Ugh.

As for Hannibal and Hannibal Rising (the books). I read somewhere that Thomas Harris was told either write them or we'll get someone else to. Hannibal is insane but has some good characters/scenes, Hannibal Rising is much, MUCH sloppier.

WTF, R222?

That sounds crazy!

It’s true. The show set up Clarice as the focal point for woke rage. On the show the trans blamed her for not speaking up for trans and the POC in the FBI blamed her for advancing while they were held back. Rage at the white men who were behind all of this was, for the most part, conspicuously absent. Basically, Clarice was the easier target and even she bought into that. It was most unfortunate.

How was it Clarice's fault? She wasn't the one kidnapping chubby chicks and keeping them in a pit so they can be skinned.

They were actually angry over the "transsexuals are very passive" line, when Clarice realized and Lector confirmed that Buffalo Bill was not an actual transsexual. Of course, the idea that someone could be deluded into thinking that they were a transsexual was offensive to them as well.

[quote]How was it Clarice's fault? She wasn't the one kidnapping chubby chicks and keeping them in a pit so they can be skinned.

White cishet women are always the root cause of male violence.

CLARISCHE!

Seven is the better film. I liked the part with the head in the box.

I wanted to like [italic]Clarice[/italic], but it never worked. I liked the casting, and that was about it. Ardelia is supposed to be super smart, but her character does stupid things that are out of character in order to push plot points. Savvy Clarice keeps acting cluelessly. And it was physically dark, presumably to enhance the moodiness. I just wanted more lighting.

I'm surprised no one has written a book/movie/tv show about Jame Gumb, there is enough background in the novel that it could be fleshed out. I know, it would be career suicide now but even 10 years ago it could have been attempted.

[quote]What was that TV series "Clarice" like? Got cancelled pretty fast so I assume not good.

It ranked right up there with The Omen series in terms of awfulness.

I think it's one of those films that became a victim of its own success to newer audiences. By the time I first saw it (ca. 2008) it seemed quite clichéd - but I think that's because it was so influential that it I had grown up watching up films that borrowed its tropes.

The South Park episode that parodies it (Toilet Paper) is hilarious.

In the novel it's strongly implied that Clarice Starling begins a romantic relationship with the cross eyed bug expert with the weird name Noble Pilcher. Thomas Harris has a thing about weird named; Jame Gumb, Ardelia Mapp, Fredrica Bimmel. Immediately after meeting Starling he asks her out on a date; she demurs, but after she vanquishing Jame Gumb she goes to spend a weekend with him in the huge house he and his sister own near the Chesapeake. At the end of the novel she's "sleeping sweetly in the silence of the lambs" with lumps under the covers that may be Noble Pilcher or two or three of the huge dogs that populate the house.

Cross eyed Pilcher aside, it doesn't seem like Starling is much interested in men. Her closest relationship is with her roommate Ardelia Mapp. Only at the end of Hannibal does Starling find true love, with a murderous psychiatrist who likes to torture and eat people. Starling herself becomes a cannibal and becomes as soulless and evil as Lecter. I'm surprised Harris hasn't come out with a sequel depicting Starling and Lecter's life together. I'm sure it would be awful, but no doubt people would be clamoring to read it.

Clarice may have been a bust, but there was some good stuff in the series Hannibal

R217, that's one of many implausible elements of the story, starting with as pointed out upthread the idea that an FBI trainee would be so heavily involved in a serial killer investigation--especially one with such a politically connected victim.

That said, I do love the novel and film. One trend that they did start that I absolutely loathe though is the brilliant criminal who is so brilliant and insane he can pretty much predict what everyone around him is going to do and is thus always 10 steps ahead. Se7en is one of many progenies that pull this stunt. And it's ridiculous--even the "smartest" serial killers are not that smart, they're just usually blessed with law enforcement that are not so good at solving crimes. The FBI overall has a better rate than local law enforcement, but solving a murder, especially serial murders, often involves the killer screwing up as opposed to the cops solving some brilliant riddle.

Jame Gumb was based on a serial killer Ed Gein who also skinned his victims though he wasn't trying to wear their skins. I think.

Jame Gumb was also partly based on Ted Bundy, who pretended to have a broken arm or leg in order to lure women to try and help him, then he'd knock them out and put them in his car.

^ He did! Gein had a corset made from a woman's torso, a mask, and gloves made from hands. He told police he would put on the "woman suit" around the house. The theory was he was trying to become his dead mother.

He was also the inspiration for Norman Bates in Psycho and Leatherface in The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

If Ron Vawter wasn't light in the loafers, he would have played Paul Krendler in Hannibal (1999) and I think he would have done better than Ray Liotta.

Movie but especially book Hannibal always seemed kinda gay or at least not completely straight to me ( his love for the opera, all his known victims before the nurse at the Baltimore state hospital were male, him reading Vogue, Mason Verger trying to lure him into some S/M scenario, him watching Mason perform autoerotic asphyxiation before disfiguring him, him quoting Truman Capote to Clarice), also Thomas Harris based the character on a gay mexican surgeon. I think he was originally intended to be a non straight character, but after the success of Silence of the lambs Harris backtracked and made him hetero in Hannibal. People read him as gay, because that's how he was intended in the source material and it's not only because of Anthony Hopkins' campy performance, because the Brian Cox version of Hannibal also seems like a bitchy tasteful friend straight out of datalounge at times.

Nothing is ever the fault of men, R227, especially if they're white and heterosexual..

Ron Vawter would have had a hard time playing the Ray Liotta part in Hannibal considering he died five years before the film was made.

[quote]R69: Whatever happened to Precious?

When last seen, Precious was cradled in Catherine Martin's arms, as she was being led out of Gumb's house by officers and paramedics. He was apparently her dog now.

[quote]R195: Why was SotL considered homophobic? Because it was one in a number of movie thrillers, probably beginning with Psycho, where LGBT characters were portrayed as homicidal and their psychopathy was linked to their sexuality.

I concur. Gays and crossdressers were all seen as the same thing, and were depicted as objects of humor or horror, as for instance, the two homosexual hitchhikers in 'Vanishing Point' (1971) who attempt to hold up main character Kowalski; he beats the shit out of them, throws them out of the car and drives on (Anthony James as one of the gay hitchhikers has to be one of the scariest things I've ever seen). Another gem in this trend would be the killer transvestite in 'Freebie and the Bean' (1974):

Bumping this thread. I watched Silence last night.

R217 I think the time-frame works. From the moment Lecter saw Chilton's pen in his cell, he plotted the entire thing. The two guards who delivered dinner were Lecter's keepers, so them staying in there was no problem. Given the fact that it was dinner time, the other guards didn't think anything of him being quiet either. The actual killing took all of 30 seconds to a minute is my guess. I always felt it would have been better if the Goldberg Variations were playing over the deaths, as in Lecter turned it way up!

I thought

^ Not sure how I prematurely posted, but as I was saying, I thought Brian Cox was a good Lecter. Although Manhunter is really way more campy than any of the iterations that come from SOtL, but I'm a sucker for Iron Butterfly and a strobe light.

I didn’t think it was that great.

One of the most overrated movies in history. Creepy but not terrifying as it should have been, with a great performance by Hopkins but a thoroughly overrated performance by Foster, all done in whispers as if that was "acting". Either Ridley Scott or John Singleton should have won over Demme.