NYTImes: The craze for phalloplaties among trans men

MORE TRANS! MORE, MORE!

TRAAAAAAAAANS!

Getting a fake organ attached to a body that was never supposed to have one helps people to be their “authentic” self.

The world is taking away women's rights, and THIS is surprising?

I didn't want to read such a long article. Does the penis work ...urination, erection. Or does it just hang there and the women (transman) pees normally.

Why don’t more women get one?

YOU GET A PHALLOPLASTY! AND YOU! AND YOU!

What will Target do then with its supply of "packing briefs"?

What about us?

Hope you like your urethra choked by scar tissue and endless revision surgeries!

Only in America!

Literal violence against one’s own body.

Thank God there's nothing else going on in the world that the NY Times needs to cover, besides delusional straight women who hate their bodies!

The picture accompanying the article is one of the most insufferable things I've ever seen.

You will learn to love the phalloplasties you transphobic CISSIE GAYS! Lesbians will learn to love the girldick!

***They have a different mouthfeel when on cross sex hormone replacement therapy.

You do not get a penis, you are born with a penis and the same goes for vaginas.

I can’t begin to imagine all of the health problems and revision surgery this will require, these mentally ill people are destroying society and their own bodies.

I read that the NHS in Britain will cover this procedure. Is that true, British DLers?

[quote]Thank God there's nothing else going on in the world that the NY Times needs to cover, besides delusional straight women who hate their bodies!

Nah, these are gay women taking their tomboy-ness to the next level.

And the pendulum swings farther and farther. Are we deluding ourselves it won't slam back into us?

Why would we even need marriage equality with transgender surgery?

R17 in this case, yes, but many are straight women who want to be gay men.

Exulansic has a fantastic mini-series exposing the fallacies of this.

Who pays for this?

Self-mutilation by another name.

R21 You do if you pay federal income taxes. In states like NY, Medicaid covers these surgeries and all the medications, etc.

You also pay via increased health insurance premiums - due to the expense of these surgeries and need for repeated surgeries and costly medication.

Well, at some point the problem takes care of itself.

Fuck you, OP.

You're just a troll among the trolls spreading trans hate as a way in to other hate.

Grease fire.

r23 Thanks...makes me so happy...

This thread is better without pics.

What did Freud say about “penis envy”?

Why do so many people live in a complete fantasy land?

r29 as someone who lives almost entirely in fantasy, I'd say ... it's less painful than living in reality.

With that said, I do NOT try to make the external world conform to my fantasy. And that's a crucial difference, in my opinion. I happen to believe living in fantasy isn't inherently bad, as long as you don't demand other people live in your fantasy too and don't hurt anyone.

The NHS would pay for this in Britain, unfortunately. The same way they pay for boob jobs and penis inversions to be done on trans women. The private doctors who carry out the procedures charge the NHS a fortune.

It's kind of funny how trans activist trolls like the one above earlier are just ignored now. No one cares if you call us names, your bullying won't work anymore.

[quote]And the pendulum swings farther and farther. Are we deluding ourselves it won't slam back into us?

It's already slamming back into us, with Republicans and their back-to-the-1950s policies poised to take control of the legislative branch this year. They've already got the judicial branch in thrall, and if things continue the way they are today, things aren't looking so bright for the executive branch in 2024.

R30 so are you saying you're a drag queen, or do you play an elf at Macy's?

This is ridiculous. One of the reasons we have Trump, alt right, and all their mania.

You are never going to get even many moderates to accept this. They might pay lip service, but inside they won't agree.

How many trans men are there, anyway? About 00000.1 percent of the entire country which they are hijacking. Tired of these loons.

If you want to attach a fake penis to yourself, go on. But don't legislate it into healthcare.

[quote]They might pay lip service

Pics, please!

[quote]Who pays for this?

Silly Putty™️, Rose!

My god. The penis of this heavily uptalking mentally ill woman was installed with a 10" girth and 6" length. So cute right!? After 5 surgeries they've wrestled it down to 6.5", so it's basically a box right now.

Someone on here once posted a close-up pic of a penis that had been attached to a "transman" and it was one of the most horrifying things I've ever seen. It looked like a painfully swollen penis attached to a vag. Which, I guess, is what it is.

They should be going to Thailand for the surgery. Thai doctors do a lot of phalloplasties on (bio XY) men there because of the traditional vengeance done by Thai wives to cheating husbands.

Surgically invasive cosplay on steroids. It's depressing and this person has my sympathies. I'm glad it's not me.

[quote]I read that the NHS in Britain will cover this procedure. Is that true, British DLers?

[quote]The NHS would pay for this in Britain, unfortunately. The same way they pay for boob jobs and penis inversions to be done on trans women. The private doctors who carry out the procedures charge the NHS a fortune.

According to Penis News, this is no longer provided on the NHS, who were working with a private hospital to provide the surgery.

My understanding is that the operation is still considered experimental and has very variable levels of success, and where the surgery fails the NHS will have to deal with the effects. Unlike double mastectomies this is something that requires multiple surgeries.

The NHS has to operate under NICE guidelines and costs are a consideration. Some drugs aren't given on the NHS because pharmaceutical companies charge too much and the benefits aren't considered value for money. It's likely these operations are viewed in a similar way.

The website by the private hospital who previously provided the surgery warns:

[quote]Phalloplasty is the surgical creation of an artificial penis or phallus. This is most commonly performed in men who have undergone female-to-male gender reassignment. It is also required for men who have lost their penis through cancer or accident. Our unit has pioneered such surgery in the United Kingdom and offer a variety of surgical techniques. All techniques however require a series of operations and careful consideration of the best form of treatment is essential before starting treatment.

[quote]Despite advances in surgical techniques there is no perfect technique and each approach has its own drawbacks. Patients will need to consider the following factors when deciding which approach is most appropriate to their needs"

[quote]standing to void

[quote]locker room appearance

[quote]penetrative sex

[quote]scarring potential

[quote]sexual sensation

[quote]removal of external and internal female parts

[quote]number of operations

[quote]potential complications

[quote]donor site problems (i.e. taking a huge piece of skin from your leg to make the "penis")

R25 If the spread of information enrages you, shouldn't your emotions be directed towards the NYT?

The evolution of women:

1960: “I’ll just DIE if I don’t get that recipe!”

2022: “I’ll just DIE if I don’t get that phalloplasty!”

2024: "I'll just DIE if I don't get that life-saving abortion!"

Maybe one day they can grow them from stem cells.

Can you believe it's 23 years since TLC released Unpretty and 20 years since Christina's Beautiful.

Back then the message was "learn to love yourself", now it's "find a good surgeon and live your truth".

[quote] now it's "find a good surgeon and demand that everyone submit to your "truth".

There’s a thread on the kiwi site documenting these… surgeries. It’s fucking GRUESOME. There’s one dumb woman who has the equivalent of Squidward’s nose sewn to her belly. The thing is split down the underside and scabbed over. I think they call her Elephant Dick.

I don't know why this surgery isn't banned. There's so many complications, and it's not saving anyone's life. How can it be justified?

It's awful and the surgeons who do them are predatory and should be in prison. They are mutilating these women for the rest of their lives and it's just completely tragic.

R51 hear hear.

What really gets me is female surgeons who knowingly agree to do this to young women. I can't fucking imagine what goes through their minds to allow them to perform such procedures, knowing themselves how painful and confusing and vulnerable it is to be a young female in this society. These women doctors have to be very damaged themselves to ever go through with it. It's beyond basic medical ethics, more just about primal human empathy.

Believe me, it doesn’t work and won’t end well.

I started reading this but soon discovered that all I wanted to know was much less than what the Times was prepared to give me.

The story is just sad. Disaffected lesbian, who never felt comfortable with being objectified by men, eliminates all of her feminine attributes and has multiple surgeries so she can finally be "free".

r55 nails it

[quote] According to Penis News

Wait…what?

[quote]According to Penis News

Where does one subscribe?

Why do trans men usually look good and trans women look like walking disasters?

[quote]It's awful and the surgeons who do them are predatory and should be in prison. They are mutilating these women for the rest of their lives and it's just completely tragic.

And that's why the operation isn't available on the English NHS, only privately.

Most doctors have ethics about performing operations they don't feel necessary or is too risky. The NHS is too fearful of being sued to offer non lifesaving surgery that is still unreliable and experimental. The doctors who are willing to do that kind of surgery will earn more in the private sector doing in.

I know of a doctor who declined to remove a facial tumour because it had grown into the jaw, the patient would have been in intolerable pain after the operation, unable to eat or drink, barely able to breathe for a small chance of survival. And a trans patient made a complaint about a male gynaecologist who refused to refer the female patient for a hysterectomy at the age of 22.

The NHS is on its knees after Covid with a huge backlog of operations. Cancers are being prioritised over all other surgeries, and elective orthopaedics are going to be increasingly outsourced to private hospitals to get the waiting list down.

Non urgent cosmetic surgery like non cancerous double mastectomies are going to be delayed for a long time.

[quote]What really gets me is female surgeons who knowingly agree to do this to young women. I can't fucking imagine what goes through their minds to allow them to perform such procedures, knowing themselves how painful and confusing and vulnerable it is to be a young female in this society. These women doctors have to be very damaged themselves to ever go through with it. It's beyond basic medical ethics, more just about primal human empathy.

Now now, don't resort to gender stereotypes.

Women are as capable of being as career and money orientated as men. The Irish doctor who runs a double mastectomy clinic in Miami is an example of this. She is raking in the cash providing an in demand service.

R61 I bet she sells the discarded tits to freaks like Armie Hammer

This just reads as internalized misogyny. And I think trans women have internalized misandry (yes I think misandry is a thing but not as prevalent as misogyny on a societal base). And internalized homophobia plays a part as well. Though not all trans were gay. Many trans women are attracted to women. A lot of trans men seem bisexual in fact (some of them really want to date and fuck gay men). I know a few trans women and they hang out on Grindr a lot. Many men who like trans women are on Grindr looking.

I know they exist, but I have never known a FtM who was not a lesbian r63

R64 to be honest, I feel like the ones I know who claim gay and are on Grindr or Sniffies and such. Aren't really attracted to men sexually. I mean they can't have sex with a gay men because most gays don't tolerate flaccid tiny dick and most of them want bio men. I feel a lot of trans men who identify as gay men love yaoi, BL and slash fanfic. They fantasize about being some femboi being swept away by a handsome gay prince. Hugging and kissing without any of the hardcore dirty, sweaty sex. Trans men get bothered that gay men aren't like that fantasy and they complain endlessly on gay subreddits about gay men being rude to them on dating and hookup apps. It's pretty humorous how they realize that being a gay man is not easy at all and rejection, stalking, and insults is just the unfortunate part of being on an app for anonymous sex. Lesbians deal with a lot but they just aren't threatening to most straight people. Once you become a gay man no matter how tiny and fem you are, people will hate on you especially older people or macho straight guys.

[quote] Why do so many people live in a complete fantasy land?

Because people live grotesque individualistic lives in totally neurotic societies with near complete absence of civic will.

Because the drug that keeps their loneliness at bay is shopping. Even for penises.

[quote] Now now, don't resort to gender stereotypes. Women are as capable of being as career and money orientated as men.

Don't try this with me. You know very well what I fucking meant, and it wasn't your twisted interpretation.

But for the benefit of those who missed it, or can't fucking read---what I originally said, in a nutshell, was that is surprised me how a female doctor would agree to cut off the tits and sew up the vagina of a girl, because a woman physically knows how much that procedure would physically hurt.

[quote] Lesbians deal with a lot but they just aren't threatening to most straight people. Once you become a gay man no matter how tiny and fem you are, people will hate on you especially older people or macho straight guys.

Man complains and gets suprise-pikachu'd that the violent dangerous misogynistic world designed and built by his fellow men to benefit men more than women....is actually violent and dangerous for him also because he is categorised by his fellow men as a 'lesser' for agreeing to take cock because that is the sad sorry pathetic lot of a female and therefore earns him a nice slapping-around from homophobia which is at root a kind of upper-echelon misogyny-lite.

I feel really badly for the women who undergo this. It IS an experimental procedure with a high failure rate.

Any such intervention with such a high failure rate that isn't necessary to save life would be extremely limited by the governing health agencies.

Except this is trans and no one is willing to face a lifetime of death threats to prohibit it.

So if the tissue is likely to die, what then?

G*A*Y*S*P*A*M

"Out in the street, he took off his heels and ran five sobbing blocks to the train"

MARY!

"His calculus changed one night later that year, out with some friends at the local college dive. The place was filthy. Management had removed the bathroom stalls to keep people from doing cocaine. An undefended toilet next to a urinal is not an ideal place for a trans man to take a leak, but Ben was confident — and had to go. He walked past a guy using the urinal and quickly unzipped to sit on the toilet. The man kept his eyes to himself (the men’s room code), but as he left, he told the people waiting: “It’s going to be a while. That guy just sat down.”

This was hardly an incitement to anti-trans harassment — he just thought Ben was taking a dump."

I'm always reminded of AbFab's Morocco episode. This, at exactly 14 minutes.

Homophobia has nothing to do with misogyny. It's contempt for homosexuality which is more rooted in traditional conservatism which prioritized procreation and gender roles. Homosexuality destroys that convention as it's purely for pleasure not for babymaking and homosexual relationships also remove the male and female role which many agricultural conservative societies have had ingrained. Moreso after Abrahamic faiths arose Only misogyny from homophobia was the idea that men who got penetrated was emasculated and basically lowly as a woman. But even then it's more based on the act of sodomy, all of homosexuality was condemned. And men who are the penetrators while they are tolerated, they weren't regarded with any respect and were perceived as predatory and we're punished as well. In a lot of ways homophobia is misandry because it denied men from being able to explore pleasure and joy of being with another man and not having the baggage of providing for women and children. Lesbians were never persecuted at the same extent as gay men were.

"His penis was a respectable length by any measure. It was thicker and paler than any I had personally seen, but it otherwise looked unremarkably handsome."

And so, in that way, he became a DLer.

R49 trans men don't look good. Some have their five minutes with nice lighting and filters. Today I met two trans men in the wild at the bus station. One was about an inch taller than me, the other not much taller than that. (I'm five foot three.) Horrible greasy hair (probably a statement), corduroy pants covering asses like that of a brewery horse. The worst part was the obvious hormone therapy underway though. Both had some facial hair that was most pronounced in form of a neck beard, and the feminine features and bone structure clashed with the rest of the body hair. One had arm hair up over the elbow - and she was naturally dark blonde. It looked like the hair of a yeti, at least an inch long, like the coat of an animal, just not quite as thick. Not even in the dark would anyone mistake them for men.

CONVINCE YOURSELF!

Which is worse:

fish-scale lined open-wound front hole ersatz vaginas that are dry yet stinking

or

Mole-like spongy matter filled with high tech hydraulic systems grown on a leg then stapled over the scar of a vaginectomy

It is all so ghastly and awful.

I would rather undergo open heart surgery than any of these trans surgeries.

At least if you have open heart surgery, you'll presumably be physically healthier afterwards.

At least if you have open heart surgery, you'll presumable be physically healthier afterwards.

Sorry for the double post.

God gave them one face and then they make another.

Of course this woman shows obvious signs of previous self-mutilation. It's sad that she's been convinced by oath-sworn medical professionals that *this* particular mutilation will finally solve her psychological problems.

I wouldn't use the NYT to paper a puppy's crate.

What "craze" - OP, like most Republicans, exaggerates the # of trans people to make them seem like more of a "threat" than they really are

if you are so concerned about "mutilation" maybe look at some straight people who've had too much plastic surgery

"It's sad that she's been convinced by oath-sworn medical professionals that *this* particular mutilation will finally solve her psychological problems."

Or maybe it was his choice. *Shock* it's almost like people can actually make decisions for themselves. In order to lie about trans people DLers have to pretend they're being forced to get surgery

The trans crowd (like R86/R87) doesn't seem to understand the hostility from gays and lesbians, but it's because so many trans people seem to think being straight, even if it requires radical surgery, is better than being gay.

I have r86/r87 blocked. All they contribute is name-calling and have nothing of substance to offer.

[quote] I don't know why this surgery isn't banned. There's so many complications, and it's not saving anyone's life. How can it be justified?

r50 "Human rights". "Trans rights are human rights". "Gender-affirming medical care". "Lifesaving".

"Banning/denying the lifesaving, gender-affirming care is anti-human rights and anti-LGBTQ+ rights". Who have been fervent advocates of this? Not just trans.

Have they done any studies on the sexual function (specifically, ability to orgasm) after these ghoulish surgeries? The sensory nerves must be difficult to move without any damage.

I know that one trans doctor (a trans woman physician who treats trans kids) recently warned that trans youth who are put on puberty blockers at an early stage can never achieve orgasm. It feels really creepy that so many trans activists and allies are fighting for the right to turn children into eunuchs.

It started with kittens and puppies and now our society is doing early spay and neuter on human children.

I finally canceled my NYT subscription a few weeks ago and I don't regret it.

Vert strange and frightening world we're living in that these Frankenstein surgeries are even allowed.

This is an extremely unethical procedure preying on emotionally vulnerable people, with no discernible positive outcomes.

I hope the recipients sue the fuck out of everyone involved.

[quote]Have they done any studies on the sexual function (specifically, ability to orgasm) after these ghoulish surgeries? The sensory nerves must be difficult to move without any damage.

Phalliplasty penises are notorious for going cold, that is poor blood circulation leads them to be considerably cooler that the patient’s other limbs. Women with these things talk of waking up with no feeling in them and a cold lump between their thighs.

why don't they invent fantastic clue on removable plastic penises with lots of electronics in them. Maybe they could communicate wirelessly with wearers nervous system. If trans got tired of them or they broke, they could just unglue them.

R96 they could be like Furbies and talk to each other too!

R96 True. Why not, when these days you can get highly-lifelike robotic dildos that mimic the feel, temperature, movement and engorgement of real dick?

R97 Furbies must have interrupted and ended more sexual encounters than any other toy.

That annoying yammering that doesn’t even stop when you lock them in a closet..

Wouldn't it be cheaper for society and medical system to provide coverage for an assortment of hi-tech prosthetics and low tech "packers" (different sizes). Say 4K worth every free years. And safer for the Transman? Phalloplasty cost over 25K initially and then all the upkeep as they rot and cause health problems. Leading the likely removal after so many years as the Transman goes through another identity crisis and realized he is a not a hetero man who has sex with woman, rather a woman again who has sex with woman and her gf doesn't want to deal with a penis.

Paste on penis covering a cunt.

R73 Remember! Front to back with NYT.

R59 Because women are held to higher standards of attractiveness. It's not them, it's us.

I saw an FTM in the wild in my tiny town. From a few blocks away, I clocked two people, in an embrace, as a lesbian couple, they separated, and I was in the uncanny valley, looking at a 5'4" 'man' with a beard, in full cowboy drag (I live in a Western Cosplay Town). One second later, I clocked the hips, the way the bearded one held themselves, the weird way the feminine presenting lady was behaving, nervous and shuffling.

[quote] An undefended toilet next to a urinal is not an ideal place for a trans man to take a leak

And the next logical step is risky surgery.

That trans man upthread in R20 had 5 "debulking" after-surgeries on her fake cock. You know she still has a woman's brain because a cock can NEVER be too thick for real man!

what the fuck is "an undefended toilet next to a urinal "

I want one of these. Actually I want a couple!

[quote]Fuck you, OP. You're just a troll among the trolls spreading trans hate as a way in to other hate. Grease fire.

No, R25. You are a foolish, hateful person who is unable to argue a subject on the merits, so you resort to ad hominem attacks. I hope you get what you deserve.

Why don't they just figure out a way to take the unwanted pussies of tranny "men" and the unwanted schlongs of tranny "women" and do a surgical switcheroo?

As usual a thread like this is swarming with the standard transphobic filth that infest this hell-site. I thought I had blocked enough of them but clearly not. Instead of legitimate concerns and critiques about the safety of this type of surgery it's just the same tired attacks and slurs.

Be better, folks. It shouldn't be this hard to not be a piece of shit.

TRANS!

The article doesn't really say much about what happens to what was there before. Anyways, I regret briefly searching for what this looks like.

R111 - oh please. The hyperbolic pushback is directly proportional to the hyperbolic agenda of trans.

I have great empathy and sympathy for the likes of Jazz Jennings. Who in my opinion is the victim of medical Mal-practice, and parental abuse on a minor. There is no way this is a successful adult outcome of the boy's dilemma.

R113 - yes people should LOOK at the gory photos. Joe and Dr. Jill Biden should look at the GORY photos and take stock of what they are accepting as so casual and the most natural thing in the world. How wonderful for America's "trans" children.

I love you, R30, and I don’t need to ever meet you. My fantasy life is a multi-faceted and semi-fulfilling thing and I sincerely appreciate your even-handed and lucid defense of sanely lived fantasy lives, in which the fantasizer knows it’s a fantasy and doesn’t impose it on anyone else.

I’ll be happy to drop mine in the event that something better comes along in the real world. Until then, in my own mind, when I go on road trips, I’m a contract killer on assignment.

[quote] It shouldn't be this hard to not be a piece of shit.

I'm truly sorry that your critical thinking skills are nonexistent, causing you to lash out at "trans-phobic" people because you simply don't have the intellectual capacity to understand their perfectly rational arguments.

Sounds like it's still a pretty rare surgery. 1000 or so a year. Not to poke too many holes in Ben's story..I'm trying to understand. Ben doesn't want other men to see he has to sit to pee or catch he doesn't have a dick. And the satisfaction of being able to say.. I'm in the right bathroom, do you need to see my dick as proof.

I guess I learned something. I'd imagined it would more personal contentment or having intercourse but in the story focuses on Ben's interest in how they're perceived by others.

I have more intellectual capacity in my left nut than you have in total R117, if that's all you can say in rebuttal then you're the piece of shit I said you were - another one added to the blocklist!

I want a Vacheron Constantin and a Bentley so when I park in Saint Tropez at Nikki Beach, I know that I will have the security that I belong with the rich cunts. Because I identify as a rich cunt. Will the NSF provide me these essential tools to realization of my identity? What if they ask to see my car. If I have a Bentley, I can point it out and say look this is my Bentley. And I can park with you in this parking lot for rich people. Because I am a rich person.

* NHS - National Health Service .

"Doctor, I'd like the Jesse Williams."

R119, that's exactly the kind of childish, inarticulate outburst I'd expect from you. Pathetic.

I want the Novak Djokovic, tall and lanky, but give me the Antonio Biaggi junk in the trunk.

From what I have read and personally experienced with trans (MTF) is that the most important part of their transition is the validation of others which is why they cannot accept themselves as they are, they need the access to women’s or men’s spaces, doctors, clothes and sports, it’s all part of that validation they crave.

So when they say they just want to be their authentic self it’s disingenuous because if that were the case they would just be happy with calling themselves a women or a man and be done with it. Part of the fantasy they have involves having others play along.

Low key waiting for someone in the trans community to explore trans male misogyny. Until then I guess we pretend trans men have no incentive in accessing male privilege.

Not to get Terfy.

If anything we all need to get way TERFier, R126/R127. Now is not the time for apologies, capitulations, and backing down.

Especially not to vacuuous, crystal-using, VICE-calibre thought-ender 'Be Better' clowns like R111. Level-headed people with humane ethics must stand up.

Excellent point, R125. There are so many confusions and contradictions when these people try to explain what they think they are, and how they want other people to accommodate that.

Then block me R123 you unfuckable cretinous troll, like I'm just about to do to you :-)

People like you have nothing of value or interest to add to my life. I don't feel bad about treating you like the shit you are, and if that makes me childish and inarticulate in your view - well, you are nothing to me, so I sit here and just laugh at how little I care about your opinion.

I don't see how that's a trans issue R125, surely that's just a common human trait, to want to be accepted and respected for who you are? How do you think you would feel if you were treated in a way that did not gel with your own perception and experience of yourself? Do you perhaps think that might be quite jarring, and would make you feel alienated?

It blows my mind that some gay people lack the compassion and empathy to remotely relate to some of this. Literally cannot comprehend it.

[quote]At 4-foot-10 and 97 pounds

Good luck to Ben on the open dating market. Not a lot of women out there who are into midget waifs with fake penises.

[quote] that's just a common human trait, to want to be accepted and respected for who you are?

Ts don't accept and respect *themselves* for who and what they truly are, though. That's the point. Instead of having self-compassion for their struggles in accepting being a gay or questioning person with mental issues, and taking themselves to therapy or giving themselves space & time to cope with new life changes, they simply demand expensive therapies and endless social media validation as a quick fix to make themselves seem anything but gay.

It's cruel to reinforce the psychological distress of another person, especially when it has collateral.

Why is it always these tiny women who want to become men?

It blows your mind, that UPENN female swimmers who have sum for a decade and dedicated themselves to be champions competing agains other women, have it all annulled because one MAN with a COCK perceives himself as a female champion swimmer, so everyone must destroy their own dreams to serve his self-validation?

* have swum

UKGuy = trolling stupid contrarian twat.

At the end of the day I always come down on the side of who people are and feel they are and need to be. I also see how the backlash has come about when people who don't understand any of this stuff go on TikTok

THere's an inevitable tension because we're talking about young people and the community has always included self-discovery, experimentation, etc.

Remember the woman who had to shut her business because of lawsuits from a mentally ill trans who wanted his balls waxed? Or the rape victim who left her group therapy because it included a brooding 6ft tall man in a dress? The trans rapes in prison? The well trained women swimmers who didn't have a chance against Big Lia? JK Rowling? Miss me with your sniffling about the oppressed who 'feel entitled to take from women the small things they have.

R131 refer to the response from R133 who couldn’t have explained it better.

I find that trans people immediately demand validation and respect in an aggressive manner. I never once saw a gay person or group attack or harm straight people in the fight for equality, it was quite the opposite.

Now ask yourself why does the world need to change its society, language, customs and trample the rights of others just to validate another’s perception of themselves, why is it that one persons view of themselves is so important that it cancels and invalidates the rights of others, if you can seriously answer that with a yes then prepare to invalidate your own rights and existence as a gay man.

I personally know trans people and I can honestly say they are the most narcissistic individuals you will ever come across, it’s all about them being trans 24/7. They do not care about how their movement affects gay men, lesbians, men, women or anything else really because they are to self involved in themselves.

It’s 2022 and abortion is on the brink of becoming illegal again and women and gays in other intolerant countries are subjected to cruelty beyond belief yet here you are defending the trans as if it’s the most important thing in the world.

Trans in Ukraine : Male “ I can’t fight for my country because I am a woman”

Female “ I can’t stay to fight because I am a woman”.

Trans in the US: “ abortion affects us because men can become pregnant”.

Many years ago (20 or more), my AA sponsor, a lesbian who had been sober more than 10 years and who worked in alcohol-abuse counseling, told me she had a person I might consider sponsoring. (An AA sponsor acts as a sounding board and answerer-of-questions to someone who is new to sobriety. The relationship is not codified in any way; the two people are expected to create it between themselves as they go.)

The person my sponsor paired me with turned out to be a man who believed he was a lesbian. I never got over it. He presented and exaggerated his “femininity” less persuasively than any drag queen I’ve ever seen. He was a spectacle just walking down the street. I couldn’t think if him as female and I’d never HEARD the word “transexual” at the time. When I heard “tranny,” what I expected was a guy who liked to wear dresses and who probably bottomed to other men. No prob!

But it was obvious that whatever was going on with him was not that. This was a whole ‘nother thing altogether. I tried to expose him to the ideas contained in the 12 steps that AA presents as a program of recovery from alcoholism, and I have no memory of how that went or how we ended up.

I remember my brain cutting out when he laid on me, as he sat across the table with his gigantic hands and his history of military service, that it wasn’t just that he was a woman — he was a LESBIAN. Something visceral in me responded to that with (but I did not say aloud): “There ain’t no such creature on earth as what you sit there claiming to be.

“And I can’t help you. And I furthermore can’t believe you will ever find another lesbian among our mutual acquaintances, speaking as the bisexual I am, who: 1) does not agree with me; and 2) would ever want to fuck your boy ass.”

Then, there was an AA campout years later and I saw him there and I’ll be damned if he hadn’t cut out all the red fingernail bullshit and found some jeans that made him look halfway like a real butchy dyke!

Fwiw.

And I’ll still never regard as female a person who can have unprotected intercourse with a fertile male and know they will never, ever, ever get pregnant. Do I think a man can be a lesbian deep down in his soul? Well, I only know I don’t want there to be any. They idea gives me the creeps. And he did, too.

[quote]Trans in Ukraine : Male “ I can’t fight for my country because I am a woman”

British journalist Sarah Ditum wrote this as an introduction to an article on equality law conflicts

[quote]Out of the many accounts of Ukrainian resilience and bravery, there was one that didn’t pull my heartstrings in quite the way it was intended to. The website Pink News published an article claiming there was a “war within a war” against Ukrainian trans people. The problem was that trans women were trying to flee the country but being turned back at the border — along with every male of fighting age — if their passport still said “male”.

[quote]One trans woman said that she was scared not only of Russian bombs but of being pressed into the army. “I don’t want to shoot people. I don’t want to kill anyone,” she said. To which, I must confess, my gut reaction was: “Yes, and?” I imagine a great many of the conscripted, on both sides, would rather not be in a war at all. That’s war for you.

[quote]There’s a more compelling case that trans women should be allowed to seek refuge because they’re particularly likely to be targeted by invading Russian troops, but that wasn’t the claim being made. Instead, the argument was that identifying as a woman ought to be enough to get you out of the duties of your sex. That’s insulting to women — many of whom have voluntarily taken up arms for their country — as well as to the men who never considered their service optional.

[quote]It’s hard not to wonder how many of Ukraine’s stranded trans women would pragmatically re-embrace masculinity if the rape squads arrived, and fair enough if they did. Self-protection is a strong current in human nature. The desire to avoid danger is powerful. Tying it to gender identity shouldn’t make it a special case: most of us, deep down, have a strong internal sense of not wanting to be injured or killed.

[quote]For a long time the politics of gender identity have developed in the half-light, pushed forward by lobbyists through unscrutinised back channels, promulgated in the fleshless world of the internet. There’s nothing like a war to bring a sharp dose of material reality to proceedings. Perhaps the clarifying influence of events in eastern Europe helps to explain why in the past two weeks we have seen so many marked reversals in the once-unstoppable advance of trans activism in the UK.

[quote]So when they say they just want to be their authentic self it’s disingenuous because if that were the case they would just be happy with calling themselves a women or a man and be done with it. Part of the fantasy they have involves having others play along.

Exactly this.

I am a gay man. Period. Whether you like it or not, dislike it or not, accept it or not, is immaterial to me and doesn't change the facts.

Like the Lady and the Tramp cats: "I am Siamese if you please. I am Siamese if you don't please."

Ts have the opposite take. They need the world to like it and accept it.

That's one of the basic differences between LGB and T.

[quote]Perhaps the clarifying influence of events in eastern Europe helps to explain why in the past two weeks we have seen so many marked reversals in the once-unstoppable advance of trans activism in the UK.

What's happened in the UK? What reversals is she talking about?

[quote]What's happened in the UK? What reversals is she talking about?

That week the Equality & Human Rights Commission published guidance on single sex spaces, contradicting Stonewall's interpretation of equality legislation.

There was also the fuss about transgender cyclist Miss Emily Bridges, leading the Prime Minister to be asked about it and he said he didn't think it was fare to female athletes.

It's not been a good year for Stonewall. The spectacle of their head of trans inclusion appearing at Allison Bailey's employment tribunal with their support dog, a support adult and their mother was quite something.

That photo with the article is something. I can't imagine the NYT publishing that photo if this person was actually a man.

[quote]Be better, folks.

Ew.

UKGuy is a UKGirl..... and always will be, even with her phony phallus.

[quote]Ts have the opposite take. They need the world to like it and accept it. That's one of the basic differences between LGB and T.

It's one very important distinction, but not the basic one. The singular most important difference is that LGB has to do with same sex attraction. T doesn't have anything to do with attraction. It has to do with identity. Ts don't belong with LGB.

R142 said >And I’ll still never regard as female a person who can have unprotected intercourse with a fertile male and know they will never, ever, ever get pregnant.

I'm sure you didn't mean that literally. Because if you did you excluded all prepubescent girls and postmenopausal women from being female.

Being born into this world with a female body is what determines someone's sex as female and makes them a girl or woman. I'm a bit Terfy but I don't believe fertiliy is necessary for someone to be a Woman.

[quote]UKGuy is a UKGirl.

That's not hard to guess. Nor its age.

Sad to be stupid insult-hurling frau so young.

In prepubescent girls and post-menopausal women pregnancy is a potentiality, however remote it may be. For both, pregnancy might be [italic]possible[/italic] but it is highly [italic]improbable[/italic]. For a trans woman, on the other hand, pregnancy is not only improbable it is totally impossible through natural methods.

^Thank God. I don't find MtF's to be particularly maternal (or paternal) for the most part. It's ALL about them. Narcissists make lousy parents. Look no further than Bruce (stealing his daughter's underpants) Jenner.

It's all about fetish play

^How is that possible? A man is milking his fake tits?

OP- Ben done LOST his mind!

Is anyone selling Trans Milk yet?

It's going to hotter than the 5 minute Coconut Water fad.

Gross!

This coddling of people suffering from mental illness needs to stop!

R153? I'm a post-menopausal lesbian and there is absolutely no way in this world I could ever become pregnant. Do you know anything whatsoever about the female anatomy??

And just in case you didn't think of this, my ex-gf had to have a complete hysterectomy at the tender age of 30 due to having a grapefruit-sized cyst on her uterus. She's not fertile and never will be.

Your argument holds no water -- but then again, you already knew that. All you need to say is "XY is male, and XX is female" like the rest of us do, and I think you'll be OK. There's no point in defending an indefensible position.

R160, every biological woman has the philosophical potentiality to bear children, even when the probability is reduced to zero due to age or a medical impediment such as a hysterectomy. The conditions must be right for the potentiality of pregnancy in a woman to become an actuality; e.g., the woman is of childbearing age, has the proper functioning anatomy, is ovulating when inseminated with male sperm, etc.

A trans woman does not have any potentiality whatsoever for becoming pregnant. A trans woman can meet some of the necessary conditions but none of the sufficient conditions for getting pregnant (childbearing age, gets inseminated, but lacks the proper functioning anatomy and ability to ovulate) . A trans woman can never attain the necessary potentiality for pregnancy because a trans woman is a biological male. Bio males pass on their genes externally to their bodies whereas bio females do so internally.

JFC, R161 -- you sound like a priest explaining to children that the reason men and women have sex "is to be fruitful and multiply." Are you a priest, by any chance??

I'm telling you, your argument is ridiculous and nonsensical. Men are XY and women are XX (with some extremely rare exceptions). That is an argument everyone can understand; you, like some foul Jesuit, are busy arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

R125 this is typical behavior of sexual fetishists, which comprise the vast majority of MtF trans folks - such as Jeopardy Amy. Amy is a classic example of a straight male cross dresser now trans person - waited many years before taking the cross dressing public, established career (many have children as well) using his white male privilege , has a female partner who accepts (or has been bullied to accept) the 24/7 cross dressing.

R163, you definitely notice a pattern. White, straight, middle to upper class man, successful in his career which is often male-dominated, married, children, decides to live his fetish 24/7 in middle age. Often these men are part of or even run LGBT groups, but they are still straight men.

It’s one way to look at things, r162. I used biology and Aristotelian philosophy, not religion, to explain my point.

[quote]People like you have nothing of value or interest to add to my life. I don't feel bad about treating you like the shit you are, and if that makes me childish and inarticulate in your view - well, you are nothing to me, so I sit here and just laugh at how little I care about your opinion.

As I said, this is pathetic. In fact, it's beyond pathetic. It's not my fault that your intelligence level is so low and your critical thinking skills are so poor that you literally can't understand the insanity of the way in which "trans" people insist on being accommodated.

[quote][R125] this is typical behavior of sexual fetishists, which comprise the vast majority of MtF trans folks - such as Jeopardy Amy. Amy is a classic example of a straight male cross dresser now trans person - waited many years before taking the cross dressing public, established career (many have children as well) using his white male privilege , has a female partner who accepts (or has been bullied to accept) the 24/7 cross dressing.

I agree with all of this, except that Amy always came across to me as a very effeminate male homosexual in woman's clothing, so I would never describe this person as ever having been a "straight male." I do wonder about Amy's partner, but just a little, because (a) it's none of my business what goes on between them, and (b) I don't really care very much, I'm just mildly curious.

Amy comes across as straight to me. Isn't Amy married to a woman? Where are you getting the gay from, R167?

Amy is classic straight white male crossdresser. No way is this dude gay. Check out photos of him in the wild.

And his gf is much younger and good looking (thanks to his winnings).

R168 and R169, are you seriously telling me that if Amy had been on JEOPARDY! with the same voice and mannerisms but dressed in men's clothing instead of women's, you would not have instantly identified this person as an effeminate gay man? If so, then I don't know what to say, except that my perception is completely different from yours.

P.S., R169, your choice of pronoun for "Amy" is interesting and, I assume, not the one this person would choose for themself.

Any man choosing to speak or dress like a woman is immediately labeled gay which is why there is so much confusion and misinformation regarding trans people by straights and the trans have piggybacked onto gay and lesbian rights groups even though it has 0 to do with same sex attraction.

Women with gay friends are not intimidated by their friends and will happily share spaces with them without fear and this is how it got convoluted and went so wrong with transvestites taking full advantage of this to strong arm their way into women's only spaces and sports. The trans are the ultimate Trojan horse.

A reminder that yesterday's White House Lesbian Visibility Forum featured two straight men who are cross-dressers: Rachel Levine and Charlotte Clymer. Cross-dressing straight men are now considered to be lesbians. I'm surprised they didn't invite Lia Thomas.

Oh I hate that pseudo cunt Rachel Levine.

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