Who was better in their prime: Beatles or Beach Boys?

John Lennon always thought that the Beachboys were the Beatles' only real rival in rock music. Not the Stones or the Moody Blues. The Beachboys.

Good Vibrations is the song that validated this -- Lennon thought it was an incredible song, nothing the Beatles could ever have come up with.

Paul McCartney considers Brian Wilson's "God Only Knows" the perfect song. The Beatles and The Beach Boys were huge fans of each other. They are both great. The Beatles had more commercial hits because they were constantly writing new songs.

I agree that it is a perfect song, R2.

I loved the Beach Boys and the girl groups in 1963. Then came 1964, and I thought I loved the Beatles even more. Rubber Soul inspired Pet Sounds, which inspired Pet Sounds, which inspired Sgt. Pepper's, which inspired the incompleted Smile album. Of all of the music these albums comprise, I liked no song more than "Heroes and Villains," which was released in the summer of 1967 and never rose to the top of the charts the way a Beach Boys' single usually would.

I kind of forgot about the Beach Boys, and the Beatles made some of their very best music in the following two years. In 1969, like in 1964, I thought the Beatles were my favorite group.

But the Beach Boys had a bit of a renaissance in 1974 with the re-release of Pet Sounds. I've never liked another group as much, ever since. And when, in 1993, the Beach Boys released their Good Vibrations CD box set, we got to hear a thirty minute group of songs that would have comprised Smile. "Heroes and Villains" was expanded to a multi-segment group of songs that are to this day, well, one of my very favorite pieces of music.

This link should play the entire 45:00 long Smile album, released in 2011. It's my favorite pop album of all time, and nothing has come along to change my mind since I first heard the 30 minute compilation in 1993.

So, for me it's the Beach Boys. I hardly ever listen to the Beatles anymore. Haven't in decades.

SMiLe

The Beatles were unrivaled, but at their best, The Beach Boys did come close a few times.

What time machine did you come from, OP?

And the answer is The Beatles, who excelled in many kinds of music. The Beach Boys always sounded like The Beach Boys.

The Beach Boys’ very very best songs (maybe 2 or 3) were pure art in a way I don’t think the Beatles quite touched, but they came very close.. But the broad middle of the Beatles’ songs were head and shoulders above anyone else’s. A random track on even one of their early albums is better than anything you’d hear on the radio today after listening for a week.

The Beach Boys. The harmonies. The lushness of the music.

"The Beach Boys’ very very best songs (maybe 2 or 3) were pure art in a way I don’t think the Beatles quite touched,"

Oh, my sides, R8!!! The world would disagree with you.

Seriously, OP? You know the answer.

While the Beach Boys songs were great, they don't compare to The Beatles at all. Paul, John, George and Ringo.

Of course not, R12. Not in the slightest. The Beatles' music encompassed skiffle, beat and 1950s rock 'n' roll, and their sound incorporated elements of classical music and traditional pop in innovative ways; the band later explored music styles ranging from ballads and Indian music to psychedelia and hard rock. As pioneers in recording, songwriting and artistic presentation, the Beatles revolutionized many aspects of the music industry and were often publicized as leaders of the era's youth and sociocultural movements.

The Beach Boys: not any of that.

Too bad the Beach Boys never tried new harmonies. Those barbershop harmonies got old.

The Beatles.

Former Rolling Stone associate editor Robert Greenfield compared the Beatles to Picasso, as "artists who broke through the constraints of their time period to come up with something that was unique and original...in the form of popular music, no one will ever be more revolutionary, more creative and more distinctive."

The Beatles. But isn't OP cute for playing?

The Beatles

But The Beach Boys get an A for effort.

Apart from their later artsy stuff I always though of the Beach Boys as a west-coast version of the east-coast Four Seasons. Not a bad thing at all but not on the level of the Beatles. And they were two groups that were able to survive the British Invasion.

peradventure I am incorrect, but it all boils down to whatever the hell you like best. Both bands had many, many highs/accomplishments, but though I highly respect and admire the Beach Boys, I am ultimately a JPGR fan who thinks they were better than the BB.

How fucked up are those lyrics, r3. I’ve always listened to this as a love song. But I just read the lyrics and literally the first line is THIS IS NOT A LOVE SONG.

I may not always love you

But long as there are stars above you

You never need to doubt it

I'll make you so sure about it

God only knows what I'd be without you

If you should ever leave me

Though life would still go on believe me

The world could show nothing to me

So what good would living do me

Growing up (I am late 30s) it always seemed like the Beatles were the ultimate 60s band that went from teen pop to serious rock, while the Beach Boys were genre music - California surf rock.

I was surprised when I saw the movie "Echoes From The Canyon" a few years back that they were considered one of the top bands musically, and that the Beatles hung out with them and regarded them as peers.

I've always like the Beach Boys a lot, "In My Room" is a great song plus all the happy surf songs.

The Beatles will always seem like a kid's band--we used to sing Yellow Submarine and Ob-lah-di in preschool and that has always been my main association even though I know they are much more than that.

I was a Beach Boys fanatic in the 70's. The first concert that I ever went to was The BB, The Steve Miller Band and Pablo Cruise. It's true that a lot of their early popular music sounded the same. But Brian Wilson was kind of a genius. Their Pet Sounds and Holland albums are brilliant.

A handful of Beach Boys songs are comparable to the better Beatles songs, both from a songwriting perspective and production, but most of their music catalog does not. I have about a dozen of the Beach Boys 1960s original singles with picture sleeves. Their best albums outside of best of and compilations are Summer Days, The Beach Boys Today!, Pet Sounds, Surf's Up, and the 2011 remastered deluxe release of Smile.

What an old man topic. I know because I'm an old man.

I don't like any of the Beatles songs. I like most rolling stones and beach boys. The rolling stones and Beatles were all gay but the Beatles went the fag hag route.

What'd Pete Buttigieg say ? That's be my answer

"What'd Pete Buttigieg say ?"

Chasten's ass smell like Hunter's cum.

[quote] Their Pet Sounds and Holland albums are brilliant.

Many people say this about the BB but never give specific be example. Which songs? What parts stand out? R20, which songs are brilliant in your opinion?

Both are good but I say the Beatles because of their evolution and more consistent output.

R26

Pet Sounds alone has:

Wouldn't It Be Nice

Sloop John B

God Only Knows

I Just Wasn't Made For These Times

Wouldn't It Be Nice

Though the earlier "In My Room" is still my favorite.

All their music just seems to call up an earlier, more hopeful America that happened 20+ years before I was born

"You Still Believe in Me" is my favorite song on Pet Sounds, one of my top five pop albums of all time. I love it for the 16 "ahhhs" in particular.

No Beatles song comes close. The Beatles for me are best left in the sixties. The Beach Boys have been with me all my life through, from the Surfer Girl album on. No Beatles album compares to my favorite Beach Boys albums (in order):

Smile

Pet Sounds

The Beach Boys Today

Summer Days (and Summer Nights)

and all the numerous compilations I've bought and listened to and loved since I was 12 and started buying records on my own. The Beatles were a disturbance. An often pleasant disturbance, a disturbance each of whose albums I bought as it came out, but a disturbance. I didn't get back to the Beach Boys until a little post-Abbey Road, but when I did, it was like being home. It has lasted forever.

I listen to them all the time, as I do Mahler and Linda Ronstadt, and Phil Spector's girl groups.

My second favorite song on Pet Sounds is "Here Today."

"That's Not Me" is another tune of excellence. BTW, it's better to listen to the Beach Boys in mono whenever possible. It sounds better.

Say "yes" to "Caroline No."

Another favorite is "The Little Girl I Once Knew."

"Girl Don't Tell Me," from Summer Days, Summer Nights

"Let Him Run Wild"

"You're So Good to Me"

"When I Grow Up"

"Please Let Me Wonder"

Okay, these are my favorite Beach Boys songs you may never have heard. I hope you like them, but no one has to like anyone's favorite music but his own.

I always preferred The Rolling Stones, especially their blues songs.

John Lennon on the subject of "She's Not the Little Girl I Once Knew":

[quote]This is the greatest! Turn it up, turn it right up. It's GOT to be a hit. It's the greatest record I've heard for weeks. It's fantastic. I hope it will be a hit. It's all Brian Wilson. He just uses the voices as instruments. He never tours or anything. He just sits at home thinking up fantastic arrangements out of his head. Doesn't even read music. You keep waiting for the fabulous breaks. Great arrangement. It goes on and on with all different things. I hope it's a hit so I can hear it all the time.

[quote]– John Lennon reviewing the track for Melody Maker, December 1965

I prefer the Beach Boys.I hate that Mike love though and I love Brian Wilson.

The Beatles.

The Beach Boys weren't a global cultural force; they, e.g., copied the Beatles' hairstyle. Movies were made about/with the Beatles. Books have been written about their song origins and meanings. And there's more.

Don't misunderstand; I love both groups. "Help Me, Rhonda" is in my permanent Top 10, right there with "She Loves You."

But the Beatles were a phenomenon.

"Allow me to show you how refined my musical tastes are by making you listen to the least popular songs on this album while I explain to you why they are better than the actual hits."

I remember when The Beatles were still together i.e. before the breakup in 1970. The perception was that they existed on a higher plane of reality than the rest of us. Not necessarily a better one, but a different one. There has been nothing like it since. When they would release a new record, you'd ask your friends, "Do you have it yet?" Nobody asked what you were talking about.

Granted, I was nine years old. But I lived in New York, wh. seemed to have had the wand of Brian Epstein waved at it in early 1964. And the spell was upon us still.

I bought The White Album in the summer of 1969 (it was released in November 1968). My parents cross examined me about it before allowing me to buy it. My father seized the poster and taped over the images he found objectionable.

The single 'The Ballad of John and Yoko" was removed from the jukebox for our block party that same summer because the more conservative elements found the 'Christ, you know it ain't easy' line of the chorus offensive.

In the Spring of 1970, The Long Island Catholic, a circular that informed practicing Catholics (I'm sure it deemed non-practicing ones to be beaneath contempt and headed straight for Hell, or at least purgatory) wrote a review of the movie "Let It Be", instructing The Faithful that although its related cultural practices i.e. the shit the members of The Beatles got up to per the media, could indeed be an unhealthy influence on the influenceable, one was 'allowed' to see it, if one felt it absolutely necessary. This rag is hilarious in retrospect. If they didn't like a movie, the rating would be 'Condemned'.

Did you have older siblings R45?

Oh, r44, you're being tiresome. Demonstrating how "refined my musical tastes are" is not what I was trying to do at all. Someone upthread asked what the best songs on Pet Sounds are, and I told him. My favorites happen not to be the ones that came out on 45s, and the guy may not have heard them, so I provided links to those songs.

Then I added a few songs representing the transition between surf tunes and the production techniques that make Pet Sounds and Smile such spectacular recordings. They're really great songs, and I'm not the only Beach Boys fan who thinks so.

"The hits" don't tell the whole story.

Stick to what you know, Millennial Fop. Compare and contrast the generational differences in New York's Jewish suburbs in the 1970s and the 2020s for us one more time.

TL;DR

In judging art you can apply your own criteria.

All the Beach Boys could sing very well, whereas The Beatles had two mediocre singers (Paul and George), a bad singer (John Lennon) and an all around disaster who was both charismatic and fun (Ringo Starr). The Beach Boys were also good instrumentalists, whereas the only member of The Beatles who could play well any instruments (guitar and piano), was Paul McCartney.

Musically, they are both extremely overrated and overpraised bands that started singing silly bubblegum songs and rapidly moved on to incredibly pretentious, pseudo-intellectual nonsense. However, it is undeniable that they re-introduced some very valuable elements to popular music (basso continuo, polyphonic harmonies, contrapuntal melodies), and both bands have impressively large catalogues with some - and ONLY SOME truly outstanding songs.

Anyway, in spite of it all, they did change the popular music landscape, because they started doing things that nobody else did, or had the opportunity to do. In the case of both bands, taking risks did pay off and now they're considered legends... Whether they truly deserve this status or not, is a matter of opinion.

R50 Pray tell Mary, who do you consider NOT pretentious, overpraised, overrated, or whatever buzzword you can insert?

[quote]The Beatles had two mediocre singers (Paul and George), a bad singer (John Lennon)

Oh the stupidity.

Being a technically "good" singer in pop music is unimportant. Pop and rock is not opera. It's not Broadway.

[quote]Too bad the Beach Boys never tried new harmonies. Those barbershop harmonies got old.

God, that's a dumb comment. Brian Wilson admired the singing quartets of the 1950s, especially The Four Freshman. That's what he modeled The Beach Boys singing arrangements on - to a point. The Beach Boys' sound was new and refreshing.

Problem in comparing Beach Boys and Beatles is that the former was all Brian Wilson. The Beatles had more contributing members - as distinct vocalists and writers.

[quote]and overpraised bands that started singing silly bubblegum songs

Silly bubblegum? Early Beatles 1964: I’ll Cry Instead, And I Love Her, I’ll Be Back...etc.

What other group had more sophisticated recordings at that time? Do tell.

R50, "All the Beach Boys were good instrumentalists?" While The Beach Boys were a decent playing little combo, they were nothing special and routinely needed a conglomerate of session musicians like Glen Campbell to support them on their albums. You're entitled to your opinion but much of what you say sounds like pretentious bullshit. And your references to "basso continuo, polyphonic harmonies, contrapuntal melodies" is a typical tactic of pompous, trying-too-hard assholes who think they can legitimize their snarky opinions by tossing in technical terms they expect the rest of us not to understand to suggest a supposed musical expertise. We're not impressed. Your musical opinion is no better and no more insightful than anyone else's, douchebag. The music of the Beatles and the Beach Boys is not legendarily important and beloved and inspirational for generations of musicians and music lovers because of their use of "basso continuo", you jackass.

The Beach Boys were mixed up with the Manson family. Gross.

[quote]The Beach Boys were a decent playing little combo, they ...routinely needed a conglomerate of session musicians like Glen Campbell to support them on their albums.

That's true, but The Beatles weren't strangers to session musicians either, especially at the beginning. Besides the awesome talent of Lennon, McCartney and Harrison, George Martin was a brilliant producer. Manager Brian Epstein's direction was irreplaceable. Without them, it may not have ever come together like it did for The Beatles.

Agreed. After Brian Epstein died the Beatles had no effective management and their direction was rudderless. The Beatles except for McCartney wanted Allen Klein as their manager and legal representative. Only McCartney saw him as the conman that he was. They spent years and lost tens of millions trying later to legally untangle the sorted mess that Klein brought onto the Beatles franchise.

R56, Manson pursued Dennis Wilson; that hardly constitutes the whole group being "mixed up with the Manson family."

Dennis Wilson and to a certain degree producer Terry Melcher had unwittingly gotten involved with Manson based on a couple of demos that he made that were interesting, but not commercial.

R57, the use of a session musician here and there (like when George Martin wanted someone else to play the drums on an early beatles song, or bringing in a sax player for Lady Madonna or Billy Preston or Eric Clapton to work with them) was not common for the Beatles whereas it was routine for the Beach Boys.

Since watching "Get Back" a couple of weeks ago, I've been doing a Beatles dive online. What gets met is just how frickin' creative they were as a group and how often their experiments worked. They produced an incredible range of music for four guys who started with two guitars, a bass and a drum.

The Beach Boys did what they did beautifully--smooth, great harmonies, studio production--but you have these amazing musical productions with some of the most inane lyrics possible. The Beatles were far wittier. The Beach Boys would never manage anything as twisted as "Norwegian Wood"--let alone throw in a sitar on what sounds like a ballad or even as simply poignant as "Yesterday."

The Beach Boys had one genuis and The Beatles had more. I like Good Vibrations and I Get Around but felt more connected to The Beatles music.

God Only Knows is genius. But the Beatles have too many songs to list that equals it.

Beatles for me.

Like OP was even alive in the 60s. Fuck off, cunt.

The Beach Beatles!

R66 GG's geezers think Rose references are so cute. They're not, cunt.

I was always a Roxy Music/Velvet Underground/Blondie/New York Dolls gayling.

Hated boy bands.

In my opinion as a kid. the Beatles were unattractive, commercialized mop-top monsters who mutated into dirty hippies. The Beach Boys were surf bums with special effects.

I appreciate them now as historically important but still don't much like any of the music. Earworm Central.

That's a tough one. Both groups were great...loved The Beatles and Beach Boys.

Beach Boys vs Beatles is sort of like Ella Fitzgerald vs Sarah Vaughan or Carmen McRae. Ella had the most beautiful voice, she was relaxing and not demanding to listen to. Sarah and Carmen demand more from the listener, their interpretations are more complex. I like all of them depending on my mood. Same with The Beach Boys and The Beatles.

Oh, yes, r68. Thank goodness Blondie et al. were never commercialized! 🤑