Hacks Season 2 Official Thread

Hoo-RAY!

That girl reminds me so much of Rebecca Hall.

[...]

The actor who played Ava's dad is smokin' hot.

Reviews so far are great! 86 and “Universal Acclaim” on Metacritic

Can't wait!

Hannah Einbinder is thoroughly annying, she ruins the show. I will just pass this one and will follow The Staircase instead.

All I remember is Charlene as the beginning of her career (and it probably wasn't but that's the first I remember her.) And I think it's just great, if surprising, that she had this phenomenal career. Jean Smart is a national treasure.

Hooray! Can't wait and I had no idea they were filming it

Jean Smart is just so believable as this character. That speech she gave in the desert expressed so much.

What episode was the speech in the desert? When the helicopter came to get her?

R11 “Primm” Season 1, Episode 2

I love it and I love Lorraine Newman's daughter. Never has coked up been portrayed so well. I love her cynicism. Neoptism has a happy ending here.

Hooray it's today!

Hannah has a face for radio, but she can be funny.

Really showing how dated the Deborah character is - the tacky 80s mansion, reading newspapers etc. Lots of nice touches to show she's really out of step with current times.

There’s so many elements to this show that makes it watchable, and it really just starts with Smart. I love her in this.

It's not too late to cast Kim Cattrall as Smart's estranged younger sister. It looks like season two trailer doesn't mention her at all. Maybe season three will dive deeper into that relationship.

R18, that was Linda Purl.

getting ready to start watching it after I finish watching “The Flight Attendant” latest episode.

Holy FUCK Wayne Newton's face.

R21, And he could barely talk

R22 and that was the best they could make him look, too. I fucking loved the speech she made to her son in law.

I love that the show is a comedy but doesn’t shy away from the weight of the drama. The show would work equally well as a drama on its own.

I couldn't really understand anything Wayne Newton said. I loved the big fat trashy woman telling Deborah "I'm your biggest fan," and Deborah face registering that she was disappointed that this was her fan base. Her expression said it all.

R23 Me too, and I love how much the son-in-law wants her approval. I think that is something Deborah needs in her life right now. Just when she is feeling that no one wants her, this big lug, who is a "celebrity" in his own, barges into her life and really wants her to like him.

They've certainly kicked up the show's budget this season

Yikes! I've only watched E1 but I thought it was awful and not remotely funny. Not one genuine laugh. Mostly just bad meandering writing though I truly can't bear the agent (is he actually one of the writer/producers?) and his chubby assistant. Very disappointing after last season though I'll keep watching.

Jean Smart deserves so much better. And where was the water guy? I hope he's returning.

The agent and his assistant are funny in short bits, but not a whole subplot. Deborah's assistant also doesn't need his own storyline. The show is about Deborah and Ava.

[quote] I truly can't bear the agent (is he actually one of the writer/producers?)

Yes. He's the co-creator and showrunner along with his fiance Lucia Aniello. He's nice to look at, but I agree, I can only take him in doses.

I want the agent to get a nude scene, I'd love to ravish him.

Waitaminute r30, he's STRAIGHT?

A little Ava goes a long way---you need some other plots running. The fat assistant is lame, though. It would be nice if she got pushed out a window (I assume they are on a high floor) or something.

I know, R32, I thought he was family too. He pings to high heavens for me, but apparently, he's engaged to Lucia Aniello, one of the show's co-creators and head writers.

You can co-create a show and be married but he can still be gay...

After watching the aftershow they're now running, it looks like he's now knocked her up as well.

I'd rather see Deborah's assistant's nude scene. That man is hottttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt!

Do the writers read her?

Popcorn purse?

Barbara in HR is my favorite character.

R39 I really kind of hope we get to see the agent going to that fucking Halloween party.

I love this show... "I'm reading him Harry Potter"

R25, I read it as she was annoyed her biggest fan didn't even know her name.

Yes, R42 me too. This really is a fun show.

[quote] that was Linda Purl.

R19, no one knows who that woman is but a few eldergays at Datalounge, and she was barely shown in the first season. Casting Kim Cattrall would be great as she looks like she could be related to Jean Smart, and her comedic chops are on par with Smart's.

Besides, the last I heard, Cattrall is doing the Queer as Folk reboot, and she deserves better than that crap.

The kickboxer's sex on a fucking stick.

R44 Actually Linda has been getting a good amount of press over the last few months talking about her pandemic romance with Patrick Duffy.

Loved the first two episodes. Can’t wait for the next 6! The freak out in the rock store was hysterical and the following scene in the diner devastating.

I love this show!

I would happily rim the agent all night long.

It took me a bit to warm up to Ava in Season 1 but she’s really grown on me. I think Hannah Einbender is doing great work and more than holding her own opposite Jean Smart.

They really need to reduce the storyline involving the agent and his wacky assistant. But I enjoyed his scene with Ming Na who was surprisingly funny.

Jean should throw Delta Burke a bone and offer her a guest role for a couple of episodes. Delta could be her crazy ex-manager, crazy ex-girlfriend, crazy ex-publicist.

Delta “plays” crazy very well.

S2 feels like a letdown thus far. Kind of like they're coasting on the awards they won. Hopefully it picks up once they get on the tour bus. (This coming from someone who loved S1.)

A little Delta went a long way and I would be happy to never see her again.

I disagree. I find it's solid, delivering laughs outside the jokes (the acting is terrific). This show isn't busy trying to show you how clever it is. My only criticism is it did feel slightly overpacked with other characters in episode one and I am not sure about the merit of the lawsuit storyline. Still, I trust they'll deliver funny stuff.

R49, et al. needs to raise their standards.

R50, the agent's a dipshit. He should have called the cops and turned her in for a DUI when she left the restaurant, that would have been great payback.

When does Laurie Metcalf show up?

Just watched first two episodes of Season 2. It’s genius. A much stronger start than last season, which was terrific.

R52 It feels like it is coasting because Deborah Vance is coasting at the moment, she has been freed from her residency and is going around to small clubs trying out something completely new for her. She is coasting along on her fame waiting for the new material to click. That is why the MMA fight was such a big thing, it was Deborah saying, I'm still here, I still rule this town, and I will be back better than ever.

I found the MMA thing corny and cliched (but loved Smart's fire as she played it.)

The 1.69 million episode from Season 1 is the best one and is the one that won her the Emmy.

I really can't believe that everyone here is finding the second season good. I think it's very disappointing.

The writing took a nosedive; it isn't in the same league as S1 so far. But the lawsuit at the end of episode 2, which is sort of a MacGuffin that will surely be dismissed by the end of S2, was a very fun twist. Smart was brilliant in the restaurant.

I don't blame Smart. She and most of the actors (agent's assistant excepted) are great and they deserve better.

Paul W. Downs is so stealth gay and sexy. I think he would.

It's DL r62 Every topic has to get some hate. Thanks for doing your part

Christ R65, lay off the crackpipe. Nobody here thinks he's hot.

I loved these two episodes. The two of them working together while the lawsuit goes on in the background is a great idea.

That said, I was palpably distressed when the agent's plan backfired and the assistant got moved back to his desk. I really had hoped we'd seen the last of her. A line or two from her every three or four episodes would have been plenty. Hopefully, she's stays in the background.

Oh, and who knew Fennec Shand was funny?

Is the beard couple who created the show still married?

2nd episode was better than the first.

I agree with another poster who said the strength of this show is Ava and Deborah's relationship. Ava reading the email to Deborah was very well done.

I have the feeling that most of the people (not all) who are saying the second season is shit are the same people who said Gilded Age was shit (but watched & posted constantly), and hated on Mare of Eastown (but watched & posted constantly). Because THAT'S WHAT THEY DO.

Paul W. Downs is so expanding his own role. But, to me, it works. Adding that HQ gal in the first two episodes was great. As was the cameo of Ming-Na Wen.

Paul being straight must be one of God's cruel, dark jokes, like Seth McFarlane being straight.

Loved Polly Draper as the psychic!

Jean Smart throwing shit around in the store on episode 2 was great

Yeah, they missed an opportunity to have a hippie type crystal store owner flipping out. Maybe it's too on the nose tho.

It's true I'm one of those who constantly posted how bad The Gilded Age was but then, OTOH, I loved Mare of Easttown and also White Lotus. When something's good it's good. Can't wait for second seasons of both. I'm rooting for Hacks at this point but disappointed right now.

R72 I get the feeling they might be prepping for a day when perhaps they can spin the agent and agency off into their own show.

{r25} no she was reacting to the fact that the woman said she was her biggest fan but didn't even know her name. duh

Not gonna happen R77. You’re the only one who thinks he’s hot.

I don't like most comedy programs, but I love this show. It is so funny

Why are people dumping already on the new season after just TWO episodes? I think it picked back up quite nicely.

The agent’s assistant character needs to go. The writers have amped up her zaniness too far and told her to chew as much scenery as she possibly can.

The woman playing the HR role is also currently playing President Nixon’s secretary in Gaslit. Same character on different shows. Typecast much?

It happens.

It's good so far

[quote] The writers have amped up her zaniness too far and told her to chew as much scenery as she possibly can.

That is what makes me think they are considering an agency set spinoff.

Not gonna happen R85.

Let it go.

Paul W. Downs is certainly a talented comedic actor/writer, but I can't see him carrying a spinoff show. He's excellent as a supporting character, nothing more.

[quote] A little Delta went a long way

There's nothing little about Delta.

r82 Martha Kelly the HR manager also played Laurie on Euphoria, and her monotone delivery there was menacing.

Nice ass!

R90 If he is really straight, it is a waste.

That's a nice smooth ass. I would love to give that ass a tongue bath and then slide my 7.5" up into it. My dick has an upward curve so it's a big prostate stimulator and I would have him cumming buckets in no time.

There's no way in hell Paul W. Downs is 100% straight. He's probably bisexual and wanted a wife and kids (Lucia looks pregnant in the aftershow).

He's like Michael Chabon, a flamboyant bisexualist who marries a woman and has kids but probably gets dicked down on the side.

Loved the first two episodes. Can't understand what everyone's upset about. Every season of every show takes a little time to get going.

All hail, Jean Smart.

R25 That's how Trump feels

Kayla was a fan favorite in S1 (especially among younger gays) so of course they gave her more of a spotlight in Season 2. That doesn't mean she's getting spinoff. Christ.

For me, the season 1 amount was perfect. Dial it back in Season 3.

I loved the obscure Diana Ross song they used in episode 1.

I didn't think I'd ever heard it before, but when I looked it up, I realized it was the opening cut on that shitty 1983 "Ross" album (the one with "Pieces of Ice"), which I actually own.

Kaitlin Olson has done stuff to her face. She looks a lil different.

[quote] I loved the big fat trashy woman telling Deborah "I'm your biggest fan," and Deborah face registering that she was disappointed that this was her fan base. Her expression said it all.

I don't think Deborah's expression had anything to do with being disappointed that her "biggest fan" was a big fat thrashy woman. The look was because the stupid woman couldn't even remember Deborah's name and then proceeded to claim she was her, "biggest fan."

The only thing that would make R90's pic gayer is if it was an inflatable unicorn.

R90s pic is from Broad City. His character was revealed to have had a Simon Rex-esque porn past.

Watched the first two episodes and thought they were good. Obviously the whole thing isn't as fresh or novel as season 1, but I really enjoy it. The harassment arc with Jimmy and his assistant (who's tiresome) isn't necessary, but if gives us the always delightful Martha Kelly.

Waaaaay less Kayla, please. Like, one brief appearance an episode, if that. But I would like to see more of Kiki, she of the popcorn purse (tricky plot-wise, I know, since Deborah's out on the road and not in Vegas). Also, I COVET Deborah's car.

I'm interested to see what they do with Marcus and Wilson. I liked them as a couple and CCH plays Marcus in a very real and identifiable way - the ambitious careerist who doesn't entirely understand how they put their job before everything. And there's an underlying element of fear in balancing life differently since they've never done it before. I'm glad he went to Wilson's apartment and stammered through that interaction with the roommate.

Still loving this dark comedy and think it's great that it mixes different generational comedy. I can't think of another show that does this.

Obviously, the DL contemporaries of Debroah Vance here would prefer to watch "The Deborah Vance Show" on CBS along with their other favorite shows, but I admire them for incorporating different generation comedy styles into one show.

Kiki is very funny.

I'm surprised you have time to admire them when you plainly spent so much time being a snide and incorrect cunt.

I think the writers do a good job with Ava. Entitled, snarky, know it all Gen Z - who actually annoys me a lot in the show. Yet, I don't dislike her overall.

Marcus is the only secondary character who I think, at this point, should have an independent arc - i.e., without the other characters in the scene. That was already established in season 1 and it was a nice story line alongside the main story line. DJ too I guess, but she's almost always in the scene with one of the main characters.

I like Jimmy the agent, but he should just be used when interacting with Deborah and/or Ava. Same with Kiki, though roles can always expand.

Two episodes and two nice guest star appearances.

1. The woman who Marty brought to the fight was none other than Carole Davis - the actress who played the one and only Amalita Amalfi - international party girl/escort - in one memorable early episode of Sex and the City.

2. Polly Draper (Ellyn from Thirtysomething) as the new age reader woman in episode 2. She's 66 and looked great.

R103 Not an elder yet, but I would LOVE to see Jean Smart headline another traditional three camera sitcom on CBS. She showed she was a master of the genre with Designing Women.

Instead of rebooting one of the older shows just create a new show with all our favorites playing similar characters. I think it is time for a new outrageous Southern comedy where they are Southern and proud but not in a racist way. And this time there should be more black characters and some gay, bi, and lesbians. Let's see we can over fill the cast so that if they need to miss a few weeks for something it isn't a problem, once Young Sheldon ends we can get Annie Potts, add Jean Smart, then let's throw in Reba and Leslie Jordon. Loretta Devine, would be divine. As would Cassi Davis and Tamala Mann from the Tyler Perry Studios. Who else could we add?

Maybe we can talk Dolly into being a recurring character.

I hope that bring back Perla, the annoying nurse from the plastic surgery episode.

BTW, I was just in Vegas and there’s a giant billboard over the strip (just north of the MGM Grand) with a picture of Jean Smart/Deborah Vance and the words "Last Chance To See Deborah Vance". Not sure if that was from last season or if that’ll figure into this season somehow.

[quote] I would LOVE to see Jean Smart headline another traditional three camera sitcom on CBS.

Network sitcoms are a step down for someone who's career is as hot as Jean Smart's.

R115 They shouldn't be.

Cable and streaming rule now r116. Network shows are constrained by archaic censorship standards.

[quote]That is what makes me think they are considering an agency set spinoff.

The agency stuff is stupid

[Quote] Instead of rebooting one of the older shows just create a new show with all our favorites playing similar characters. I think it is time for a new outrageous Southern comedy where they are Southern and proud but not in a racist way. And this time there should be more black characters and some gay, bi, and lesbians. Let's see we can over fill the cast so that if they need to miss a few weeks for something it isn't a problem, once Young Sheldon ends we can get Annie Potts, add Jean Smart, then let's throw in Reba and Leslie Jordon. Loretta Devine, would be divine. As would Cassi Davis and Tamala Mann from the Tyler Perry Studios. Who else could we add?

R112, telling us he lives in a trailer park without saying he lives in a trailer park.

R119 I might be trash, but I've never lived in a trailer park.

r119 that sounds like a great idea for a sitcom - in the early 90s.

R121 A retro feel is always in style. Get Chuck Lorre to produce it and CBS will run it for 10 years.

Nobody but olds watches network tv anymore.

Holy Shit!

Season 2 HOLDS UP.

I'm shocked there isn't more love and talk of Marcus here. CCH is soon appearing in a new off-Broadway production in which he plays James Baldwin and I'm very eager to see him.

R125 I like the actor and I think he is both good in the role and handsome, but I don't like the character.

Marcus doesn't need his own storyline, same with the agent and the assistant.

[quote] CCH is soon appearing in a new off-Broadway production in which he plays James Baldwin and I'm very eager to see him.

He’s way too tall, buff and sexy to play Baldwin.

I still haven’t forgiven him for that Billy Porter-inspired outfit he wore at the Emmys.

The thing that appeals to me most about this show is that Deborah Vance's history, experience & road smarts count for something in the storyline. She typically has the upper hand when Ava's hubristic & clueless self-assuredness assumes her way is always the best way. The Sex & The City reboot failed hard where that was concerned. It totally presented 3 women who set trends, were on the cutting edge of the current culture, recognized the important of revered culture that came before them & set the pace for a future generation as 3 aged, bumbling women who seemed unaware of the world around them. Portraying them as middle aged, out of touch women struggling at the mercy of millennials & gen z "queers" was just uncomfortable & unrealistic viewing. Hacks completely avoids this. Jean Smart plays a character who seems aware of every direction in which the world has turned & sees bullshit where there's bullshit. Deborah Vance is a very fair character to the characters around her.

"I'm shocked there isn't more love and talk of Marcus here. CCH is soon appearing in a new off-Broadway production in which he plays James Baldwin and I'm very eager to see him."

CCH stated very publicly "his" pronouns last year - and it's not he/him. I love him in Hacks and think he'll be great as Baldwin. But he seems a tinge insufferable (not atomic levels) off screen.

There's not much to talk about yet in regards to Marcus. I think he got plenty of mentions during the season 1 thread.

What we need is more of Jean Smart wearing caftans, and maybe a turban or two.

Just finished the cruise ep and it was cringeworthy on so many levels. I realize that was the writers' goal, but it wasn't entertaining.

Episodes 3 & 4 are great.

Are they up already? New episodes on Thursday, but when exactly?

Episode four features Lauri Metcalfe as (lesbian?) tour manager obsessed with keeping the tour on schedule.

Sorry, Laurie Metcalf.

R135 They're usually put out about a quarter after midnight on Wednesdays.

Laurie Metcalf is as wonderful as always. God I love her.

I really enjoyed the last two episodes. Glad Marcus is going to be on tour - I think they've done well with his side story without letting it take away from the main plot. Ms. Loretta cracks me up.

The writing is even stronger this season. This is shaping up well.

And Paul W. Downs is a total snack.

One thing I've noticed about this show, is when people do stand up it is like they are really doing stand up, on most shows about stand ups, even the ones starring stand ups, the comedy routines tend to be horrible.

Does Paul W. Downs post here?

I mean, otherwise, I just don't get it.

Laurie's delivering dyke realness.

Is Damien a queen in real life or just a good actor?

The Gen Z? writer has a nice rack.

Loved the cruise episode. So good.

Poor Marcus.

I was sad to see Laurie go at the end. She’s so much better in this type of thing as apposed to The Conners.

Maybe she'll be back later in the season. She can do no wrong as far as I'm concerned, she's an incredible actress.

Ι demand a spin-off devoted to Barbara from HR

Loved when Deborah closed the door on Ava when she said you shouldn't use the phrase Master Bedroom anymore because of it's ties to slavery. That should be the meme used to silence all woke assholes

Jesus Christ let the Paul thing go. I watched the interview after episode 4. His eyes are in different time zones.

Both episodes were uneven. I liked Laurie Metcalf as the dyke in charge, but the trip was filled with set pieces that didn't fully add-up. The cruise would have been better if Deborah hadn't sabotaged herself and Ava had too good a time--I don't see her as being able to get in with A-list lesbians, even with Deborah along.

Just like last season, it's not perfect, but I thoroughly enjoy the show. I may be in the minority - I didn't MIND Laurie Metcalf's character - perfectly fine, not a distraction. But, I didn't love the character and am not upset by her firing, and therefore her exit from the show.

She’s basically playing Jackie Conner on a bus.

I did that Ava dumped all her sexuality spectrum talk as soon as she might get laid.

Er…loved.

I am loving the new season. Jean Smart is so effing perfect. Not a wrong note. She is touching, funny, hateful in the same take.

It seems like in the first season, we were marveling at Jean Smart's acting. This season, Jean seems to have disappeared into Deborah Vance and we are enjoying this fully formed character of Deborah

Margaret Cho's been in the entertainment industry for over 3 decades. They only gave her 3 lines in this episode and she still couldn't pull them off effectively. It was the worst performance of the episode

[quote] Is Damien a queen in real life or just a good actor?

The actor who plays Damien is gay and his flames are brighter than the view of the Vegas Strip at night.

I really enjoyed these two episodes just released. This show has really hit its stride and is a joy to watch. Both leading ladies are giving us loveable/hateable characters and the minor players are doing well too.

Marcus’ mom and friend are a breath of fresh air after watching that idiot receptionist character overact and frump around in the first two episodes.

I agree. The friend of Marcus’ mom is a scene stealer!

Loved Deborah’s reaction shot when she first discovers it’s a lesbian cruise 😂.

I also thought it was endearing the way Marcus poured out his heart to Wilson on the dance floor. Glad he will be joining the girls next episode.

Hannah Einbender is really good at playing the heavy emotional scenes such as the reading of the drunk email to Deborah and her freaking out about her dad’s ashes.

Jean is perfection.

I’m listening to the podcast on Audacy and Einbinder’s coming across like she thinks she’s too cool for the room.

[quote] I agree. The friend of Marcus’ mom is a scene stealer!

That's veteran stand-up comedian Luenell. She was also a scene-stealer in Borat, too. I love her in Hacks.

R166 I'm so glad she is getting recognized more, I love Luenell.

Why the change to 8 episodes and what does that mean for a third season? How far can they go with this story line? They could have Deborah get another Vegas residency and shift it back to Vegas, but they've done that. They could expand the stories of the side characters if back in Vegas. Or Deborah could finally get a TV show of some kind and Ava could write for it and Marcus would have new duties as CEO because of it. Or they could just stay out on the road since this season is roaring by.

Was that Jean smart actually singing natural woman?

As much as I enjoy the Vegas setting, I think there's a whole alien and deeply uncomfortable world out there for Deborah to explore: Netflix specials, podcasts, etc.

Give it time r170

I know the premise is about Deborah’s struggle, but it sort of annoyed me how she was killing at the lesbian show, but then fucked it up. Same thing as on Mrs. Maisel..every time she has a great opportunity and sort of success, she fucks it up. Maybe I’m not explaining myself correctly. I know shows need conflict and drama, but I’d like to see obstacles other than a character constantly sabotaging themselves.

I think the show works best when the girls get along. I wish they had teamed up “a Lal” Valerie Cherish and Jane the camerawoman and had an antagonist “a La” Pauline G. That the two women could battle together. Having them at odds makes the show less fun.

this and better call saul are the 2 best things on tv right now!

hacks is funny as fuck and has a lot of HEART! so much fun packed into every show. that secretary! the gay guys family! fun stuff.

r152 I noticed Paul's eyes look special during ep 2. He looks like a malformed child.

The tits on Marcus though

Marcus had such big tits, Deborah was confused and thought she was back on the wicked Lesbian cruise

Who knew Jean Smart could (more than passably) sing? Am I alone in thinking Deborah is not actually going to sue Ava but is letting Ava think she is, just to torment her?

Thankfully, not a peep from Kayla. (One or two peeps from her is about all I can stand.) Agree with someone upthread -- I enjoyed Laurie Metcalf's two-episode, rather one-note arc, but I'm not sorry to see her gone.

Dammit, now I want a puppy. (I hope the show keeps Marcus's mom and Luenell around as his housesitters/dog minders now that he's on the road.)

I didn't think her singing was all that. Or her comedic timing. And I've never seen her twerk.

The cruise episode wasn’t good. She wouldn’t have screwed up that badly on stage or have been that off-key with lesbians. And the lesbian responses weren’t believable.

But the first 3 episodes were great. Love the show.

R180 wasn’t that pulled directly from Joan’s life? She loved the gays but didn’t seem to get along with lesbians.

Marcus‘ tits + a puppy = winning

R169, yes. Totally her. And she did a great job. I bet that was a fun scene to film.

The Cruise episode had a bit of an Absolutely Fabulous sort of feel to it, and with that I mean the end, where you kind of enjoy seeing her fail so hard she gets voted off the lesbian love boat. The bit with the shoe had me ROFL. You'd think a pro like Deborah Vance would know how to handle a crowd and get them back on her side, but instead she digs herself deeper because she doesn't know how to deal with lesbians. LOL.

Do any of really know how, R184? I felt her pain.

I was half thinking she should have been able to handle it but she connected with the lesbian group welcome in the prior scenes and was having fun and felt loved by the masses again - and the character is very vulnerable right now. Her self-confidence has taken a knock. It will be well written if they explore that with a little dialogue or a scene in the next episode, or half-written if they don't. Because it's true, a seasoned pro should have known from experience how to handle going off piste and get back on it, but she totally fucked it up. Getting boated off the ship in the middle of the ocean was stupid but a nice comment on today's vibe. In real life she would surely have left the ship at the next port.

This is one of the very best things on TV right now.

This show is on the way to being a cliché...Smart is amazing. The writing this season is on shaky ground. The Kayla character is too much...and I worship Laurie Metcalfe but they wrote her such a ridiculous part .... she is so much more than a one-dimensional character...I hope it gets better...

Kayla wasn't even in the episode r187

R181 I’m a lesbian and I don’t get along with lesbians either! I get that she couldn’t connect with them but didn’t seem authentic that she’d flip out on stage and lose control of the audience . If it were Joan R, for example, I suspect she would have pivoted to another topic once she realized she was losing the audience.

Given how smart and savvy Debra is, seems much more realistic she would have done the same instead of self destructing.

R189 I think normally she would've but the Deborah of this season isn't cocky, she is vulnerable and seeking validation.

Ugh, the writing this season is atrocious.

R191 Quit watching then. This season is great and these first four episodes are much stronger than the start of Season 1. People just have to find something to complain about apparently. I suppose this is DL, but I’m tired of hearing people pointlessly bitching in this case.

For me Season 1 didn’t really get going until episode 5, with episodes 5, 6, 8 and 10 being the highlights of the season. I thought the second episode of season 2 with the rock store freak out and email reading scene at the restaurant was as good if not better than the highs of season 1.

Insightful commentary from r191

Pertinent to our interests

So this was what Laraine Newman was up to after SNL. She had a baby.

r82 She was also on Baskets and did the exact same deadpan, monotone delivery.

R82 R197 She was also in Marriage Story and did the exact same deadpan, monotone delivery.

Then I guess I'll assume that's just how she speaks.

Weird that the New Yorker piece didn't mention Debbie Reynolds as another inspiration for Deborah Vance.

Harriet Sampson Harris was great in the state fair episode, though it was hard to buy that Deborah would just happen to run into an old friend working at a Lord and Taylor’s in whichever flyover state they were passing through.

It would have been interesting if they had gotten Annie or Delta to play that part.

That was Devon Sawa as the smokin' hot guy that banged Deborah?

The Marcus/drugs/harness/vet stuff was way too wacky and out of character (for the show and the character) And there's no way Vance would have torpedoed her set like she did on the ship. That was too pathetic, too inexperienced. If the character were drunk or delirious, maybe, but there's no way Vance would have handled that situation in the terrible way they wrote it. All in all, just a mess of an episode.

You get a quick flash of Devon Sawa's ass in episode six.

Love the offhand diss of Fox Searchlight by the assistant in episode 5.

What I love about episode 5 was how Deb's former friend and her nephews felt sorry for Deborah having to do a county fair show and her act being interrupted by cows giving birth. Making it look like the friend made the better choice by quitting comedy. And one of the kids, feeling so sorry for her, he gave her the donut hemorrhoid cushion. LOL.

R201 When and where did they film the Lord & Taylor? All L&T's were closed in Feb 2021. I'm guessing they just dressed a former L&T for filming.

I will say Ava talking about being an only child and never getting to ride rides, is the first time I've identified with her. If you bother to have one child you owe it to them to have another or adopt one. Being an only child is often a lonely, lonely existence.

"The Marcus/drugs/harness/vet stuff was way too wacky and out of character."

I could believe it. He's uptight and a workaholic in his professional life, which is basically his whole life. I can believe he can let loose like that when he allows himself to. I never took him as being prudish or rigid when it came to sex and partying. Plus he was depressed about Wilson, hence the drugs as a distraction. As we saw, it's not like he fell down a rabbit hole of living that lifestyle. He snapped back pretty quick.

[quote]Harriet Sampson Harris was great in the state fair episode, though it was hard to buy that Deborah would just happen to run into an old friend working at a Lord and Taylor’s in whichever flyover state they were passing through.

Holy shit, it WAS Harriet Harris. I watched the whole thing thinking it was Ann Dowd. Revoke my Datalounge card!

Harriet Harris is always great in everything

I liked these two episodes. The montage of Deborah getting her act together was a bit easy, but there's season time constraints. They weren't going to keep them out on the road hashing out the material for the entire season.

Looks like there's only 2 more episodes this season so there will be a lot more that they won't be able to hash out

R210 - That's it?? I was hoping for 10 eps.

Anyone know that fabulous song from the end of the most recent episode? Shazam didn't recognize it.

They didn't need the scene with the dead eyed agent and the fat assistant. They're not integral enough to the show to give them screen time.

Eh. I could tolerate them. But I cannot get enough Deborah. The perfume being discontinued was hilarious

R214 they should have called that episode Black Pashmina.

How many more episodes to go? I wait and binge.

Knew Paul and Lucia years and years ago in NY (well before Broad City). The gossip back then was that Paul was gay until he met Lucia. I find it hard to believe he was willing to completely give up dick for her, but who knows, stranger things have been known to happen. He was the nicer one of the two.

Harriet S Harris: "shoot at your grandma's hole!"

R195, thanks for the article. I look forward to finishing it. But I can't believe they called his character craven. He isn't at all! He's a pretty nice guy working hard for his clients' success.

My jaw dropped when I realized he was the same guy as in Broad City.

"They know comedy. But they dress like tableware."

Harriet S. Harris is one of my favorite actresses ever -- her Bebe in Frasier is still in my mind the best comic creation in the history of TV. But she has been terrific in everything she does, including, oddly, Memento, in which she is unrecognizable. Never understood why she didn't more and better parts.

[quote]What I love about episode 5 was how Deb's former friend and her nephews felt sorry for Deborah having to do a county fair show and her act being interrupted by cows giving birth. Making it look like the friend made the better choice by quitting comedy.

I kept thinking about that story I learned here on DL when a famous actress who retired said to Judy Garland, "Are you still in that shitty business, dear?"

R213 I agree. I fast forward through them and it didn't affect a thing. Is she "someone's" daughter in real life too ? That's the only explanation I can think of.

Harriet S Harris: "I better go help that bitch."

This should be the song you're looking for r212

When she had no memory of 10 year old DJ getting a concussion after stealing a bottle of vodka.

I honestly am not someone who is bothered by aspects of fictional TV shows that might not be accurate in real life - like when people complain that Carrie would have never been able to afford her apartment in NYC. I can accept the built universe of a show.

But, just for fun - Deborah went to a state fair and a Nordstrom in close proximity. Where could that happen? It definitely could happen in Minnesota as the state fair is in St. Paul and there are multiple Nordstrom stores (at least two) close by in the Twin Cities metro area. Granted, Hacks may not have specified "state" fair.

If you want fair, go to Pomona.

R227 No she went to a Lord & Taylor, which seems to still exist in this show's world. But, it was a state fair not a county fair. State fairs tend to happen in a state's larger cities/metro areas. For instance, The Michigan State Fair is held in Novi, MI whose L&T was one of the last to close.

My bad, you're right. It was Lord & Taylor.

They were near Springfield, so that likely means Illinois or Missouri, which have two large Springfields.

What's interesting about Deborah is that she lives such a luxurious lifestyle and is quite snobby about it, but she has no problem going to dive bars, shopping malls, shitty tourist shops etc.

[quote]Black Pashmina

Close.

R229 must be Janet Jackson.

I love this show so much, but I'm sad that there are only two more episodes. Boom!

The shorter season is probably due to scheduling around the show creators' pregnancy

Has it been renewed?

I really hope it's renewed. There's multiple directions they could take it now that Deborah's material is coming together. They mentioned Deborah filming a special. They mentioned Ava writing a screenplay. Not that either of those things are necessary to keep going.

While I think people still like the show and it's still great - the buzz isn't the same, obviously. It's not new anymore, there were only eight episodes, and they were released two per week. They've canceled buzzed about shows like Looking after two seasons. But if Crashing and Getting On can get three seasons, Hacks should be able to.

HBO/HBO Max still really cares about Emmy awards. Jean Smart has already won once for this show, it will get at least three seasons.

Agreed. A quality product that is among those restoring the shine to HBO.

Jean Smart and Harriet Sansom Harris was the comedy pairing I didn't know I needed! Honestly, I gay-gasped as soon as I realized it was Harris. (Sorry to hear there are only two more episodes, but surely there will be at least one more season.)

I always get Phoebe Nicholls confused with Harriet Harris.

R241, I gay-gasped at Polly Draper a couple of episodes or so before.

For any fragrance fans out there - Black Pashmina was obviously based on Donna Karan’s Black Cashmere, which was indeed divine and was discontinued a few years back, leading to an uproar in the fragrance community. Full size bottles go for upwards of $350 on eBay these days. Black Cashmere is dark, spicy, resinous and utterly stunning. Deborah has great taste in scents.

I loved Jean Smart in the first series. But that ugly, ridiculously unfunny supposed comedy writer I wanted to punch. If she's back in this, I won't be watching.

Perfume is so 80s, that was another example of how dated Deborah is.

Sure R246, that explains the success of all the new niche fragrance houses like Byredo, Diptyque, Frederic Malle, Boy Smells, Maison Francis Kurkdjian, Le Labo, et al. It must be old ladies like Deborah Vance keeping these companies going.

r247 perfume is definitely a Boomer woman thing. Other women wear it, but the Boomer women from the 80s are the main consumers.

I love Ava. She's all of us in our 20s and that's why people hate her. She plays on drugs and drunk perfectly. That's really hard to do. She makes you cheer for her even when she's being a shit. Her reactions to her mom and her dad's death, also pitch perfect. Painfully so. It's natural to want to look away.

All the bougie white gays I know love fragrances r248, especially the $200 ones that smell like expensive hotels.

The state fair scenes were filmed at Six Flags Magic Mountain, I was there two weeks ago and noticed the pendulum ride and all the booths right away. Interesting that they’re filming in LA.

All that "great" new material the characters came up with in the latest episode wasn't funny. Were we supposed to think it was next level?

Yeah annoys me, sometimes a lot, but I still root for her. That's good writing. Even Ava seems to know she's annoying in her generational way. Like when she makes her woke and PC points, she knows it's eye rolling, but she feels like she needs to say it.

R252, I don't think it's supposed to be "next level" in comedy generally, it's just a big gear shift for Deborah who has a middle America audience. She's never been edgy or "next level," but her new material is still a change for her. There's a LOT of very successful comedians who I don't find funny at all.

I mean to say "Ava annoys me."

R250 true, my bussy smells like Le Labo.

R251 It doesn't surprise me, Jean Smart lives in LA and between the pandemic and being a recent widow, I could see her requesting they film close to home. Much of last season was filmed in LA, as well. I think they basically follow the old Dallas model of filming a few days in Vegas at iconic locations and then filming most of the rest in LA.

After seeing the Carlin doc on HBO, I keep drawing parallels to Deborah not being able to be herself on stage. Her home shopping fraus aren't going to cozy to the bad mom jokes. She's reinventing herself like George

Jean Smart reminds me so much of Kim Cattrall, especially in the recent hookup scene with Devon Sawa. If they do any flashbacks in future seasons, they should use Kim, who still looks 15 or so years younger than Jean.

I mentioned earlier that Cattrall should play her estranged younger sister. She's on the Queer as Folk reboot, and she deserves so much better than that crap.

I loved season 1 but season 2 seems very off. Have they changed writers? The focus has shifted off the Deborah/Ava dynamic and into less interesting, boring characters. The Marcus story is completely dull and pointless. Wealthy, handsome guy can't get a boyfriend (for some inexplicable reason) and has to answer to his sassy Mom. Really? That's the story? Also ridiculous was that he would be hanging out at a club with a bunch of really queenie gays. Like everyone here says, the fat assistant is not funny, not necessary and needs to go. It might have been more interesting if Deborah had managed to get her daughter in that job.

So much of it doesn't make sense. There has been an increase in the "down with the patriarchy" lines which is very ironic as Deborah is going to sue Ava to bankruptcy.The Laurie Medcalf character was a disaster and played far too broadly. Clearly, the writers knew it wasn't working and were smart enough to get rid of her, but it all happens so quickly. And why would KiKi just randomly show up and do a leg of the tour leaving her child at home? So they call all go out drinking together? And the stand up material is some of the least funny part of the show, yet Deborah is all hyped up about it.

It's like they've laid all the groundwork and now they have nowhere to go.

I love Kiki. Laurie Metcalf was very funny, she wasn't supposed to be a regular, just a guest star.

R259 I just realized we haven’t met the treacherous younger sister yet. Genius idea. And I’ll bet Kim would do it.

I co-sign the Kim Cattrall suggestion. She deserves so much better than reboots of “How I Met Your Mother” and “Queer as Folk.” She *deserves* to be back on HBO. Certainly more than that no-talent thoroughbred SJP. And what better part for Cattrall than an aging seductress who ran off with her sister’s husband?

[quote] [R259] I just realized we haven’t met the treacherous younger sister yet.

I believe we did. She was played by Linda Purl in season one.

R263 She will probably never work at HBO again. Unless the new owners really clean house.

R264, we never officially met Deborah’s sister. The only scene I remember was her sister trying to give her that package in the parking lot and Deborah tried to run her over. And even in that scene they barely revealed her face and kept the character mysterious. She had no speaking parts.

It’s not like they haven’t replaced actors for existing characters before on Hacks. In Season One, Brent Sexton played Kayla’s father, and in Season Two he’s played by W. Earl Brown.

Yeah R266, my impression of that scene was that they purposefully kept her face obscured and didn’t give her any dialogue so as to cast a name actress down the road, when needed, without it being obvious.

Such a great show. Deb getting laid was great. Smart has some great legs.

Ava's mom is so exhausting. It's no wonder she's screwed up.

R268 she’s a stunning woman. One of those who will be gorgeous and sexy at any age. When I was a kid, I loved the Brady Bunch, and I remember being transfixed by Mrs Dittmeyer. Even 8-year-old me could recognize a stone cold fox and camp icon.

What is sad is Kim Cattrall would be amazing as the sister, but because of SATC, HBO won’t touch her with a ten foot pole.

R270 I forgot about that movie.

"Hit the road, Bad Seed."

Best line in the scene.

I disagree. If they can make money off her, or anybody, the job is hers. That said, the worse your reputation, the more money you'd have to bring. I like Cattrall but she is so outspoken she has definitely bitten the hands that feed her so she'd really need to bring it to make it worth the hire.

Thank you, r142. This has bothered me for a while. The show likes to tell us that Debora is funny but they've never backed it up with a GREAT stand up set. She might have one or two mildly funny jokes but she never says anything to warrant the big reaction she gets from the crowd. I really felt that at the end of s02e06. It's an entertaining show but it would really be a cherry on top if Debora was hilarious on stage.

I thought they came close in the last episode. the 12-step joke made me laugh like I was there.

Didn’t she seduce Peter in the Brady Bunch movie? Or was that someone else?

r276, No that was Polly Bergen in her final screen performance.

Kim Cattrall shouldn't have a probelm with working with HBO. HBO gave the SATC the budget that it got. It was up to the show's producers (that included SJP) to determine the best and fairest way to spend that money. Kim obviously had a problem with that.

HBO would have a problem working with her.

HBO is very loyal to SJP. They renewed her current show even though it was hated. And they renewed Divorce even though it had zero buzz.

HBO would get an earful from SJP if they hired Kim for anything.

[quote]It might have been more interesting if Deborah had managed to get her daughter in that job.

This is a really good idea.

All the scenes with the gay manager and the fat chick are a waste of time.

I'm not understanding the issues some are having with this season. It's given me everything I'd hoped for and I'm sad it's almost over.

R270 SHE WANTS THE BRADY’S MAIL LARRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I’m loving this season. Although the fat assistant story line is annoying

As far as the annoying fat assistant, during the first season she always on screen because Jimmy was dealing with Deborah or Ava and then interacted with her, or she was answering the phone in the first place. The whole thing with Ava taking the meeting in LA was due to the assistant. She was annoying but there was a reason for her to be there. This season they've had moments between the two characters when Deborah and Ava aren't even involved. I don't think it's necessary - at all - but it's been minimal enough that it really doesn't bother me too much.

Jean Smart is on the PBS 2022 Memorial Concert.

Hacksh

I had no idea Jean Smart’s son killed himself

Jean Smart has never had a son

Disregard my comment at r287

I thought she had an adopted son.

Jean has two sons, her biological son Connor and her adopted son Forrest from China.

It's her husband, I thought, who died.

She's a widow. Her sons are alive.

Interesting that they waited until their first son was 20 years old to adopt.

Count me in as someone who thinks the show has improved vastly this season and that the characters' voices have finally been nailed. I'm enjoying this more than the first season.

Like everyone else, I have quibbles. Ava is treated more like a personal assistant than a writer. I've known several writers for comics and they wouldn't be shlepping luggage or moving furniture, ever. And the whole preposterous notion that Ava would continue to work for someone who's suing her beggars belief. In no world would that happen.

This show will be renewed. You can bank on that. HBO sank A LOT of money into the award show circuit because they feel this is a rare offering that can be both widely popular and a prestige project, so this show is sticking around. I went to a HACKS panel at the Paramount lot some months ago and no expense was spared, so it most definitely has the network's backing.

The show seems to have hit its stride with the more recent episodes. It still has the problem of writing too many characters as take-offs on the usual annoying neighbor/relative/coworker. Some people find these characters funny, most of the time I don't. They have Ava, the fat assistant, and Ava's mother. They need to lose at least one of them. Much as I like Laurie Metcalf, she seemed well on her way to becoming another one of these annoying sidekicks.They seemed to be trying to do something a little different with the assistant in the most recent episode. Making Ava more of a pal to Deborah may work, but they run the risk of losing some of the tension that is intrinsic to the pairing of the two characters.

Regarding why there isn't more love for Marcus. I read an interview a view with it referring to itself as they and them, I've never paid attention to it since.

Why just be gay when you can be considered a special unicorn and be a THEY?????

The lawsuit is supposed to represent how Deborah does things to people around her to fuck with them. It’s almost like, as she’s grown closer to Ava, she has to insert a wedge. She has serious issues forming real relationships.

Those final two episodes felt final. So fucking good. I want more tho

I wonder why so many shows are releasing two episodes per week? Then again this was a short season, only eight episodes instead of 10.

Great ending, great choice of song too.

Yeah, it felt very much like a series finale. I hope not.

Hopefully the show has too much prestige to be finished after only two seasons. Excellent finale with a bittersweet, nuanced ending.

The creators are definitely pitching a third season, based on their comments after the finale.

Maybe season 3 will get that walleyed agent into a plastic surgeon to get those eyes in the same time zone.

I like that Deborah is self producing and Jimmy quit, but Kayla's coming with? Her trust fund money is a good sitcom reason for her to come with, but I wish they would have cut her out.

I LOVE that Deborah lovingly "released" Ava - told her to take advantage of her value while she could; knew that Ava should limit herself at this point.

Two more episodes to go?

I want Paul W. Downs to be my manager.

Manager of my butthole!

Matt Roush:

"This is about as good as a season finale gets."

I hate that fat girl.

She's annoying and not in an even remotely entertaining way.

I felt as if the show got better as it moved to the end of the season.

This did feel like a series finale rather than a season finale. I wonder if they were worried they wouldn't get renewed.

Very enjoyable season, but the show doesn't seem to be that popular/buzzy. Not a lot of online attention from what I can see.

I think it ended in a great place and might be best to leave alone at this point. It was a story well told.

The beginning of the episode seemed like it was all shaping up for it to move to LA and it would make total sense and there's something to do with every character.

But, it seems to have shifted during the episode to a series finale type wrap up. Maybe they could have a season 3, but one of the stars has an offer to do something else?

With so many TV shows these days, being popular/buzzy is a small miracle that at best, only lasts a season or 2.

Unless they film a season with a guaranteed renewal, most TV series now end their seasons as potential series finales. Most of Schitt's Creek seasons ended as a likely series finale.

Hacks wrapped up a lot these season, but they still will get awards season buzz and there's still more stories to tell with these characters

The fat girl needs to go if they're going to do another season. She adds nothing to the show.

Kiki is fabulous, she should be used more.

Hannah Einbinder deserves an Emmy for this season. She really developed the character and showed some acting chops.

It didn't seem like a series finale but more like a reset. I could see Deborah coming on Ava's new sitcom as a guest character and the network wanting her to star in a spinoff, the season would then be about Deborah and Ava creating a sitcom while battling the network and how far they are willing to bend their artistic integrity for commercial success. Then the finale of that season can be about if it gets picked up or not. They can even make it dramatic by pointing out it is for the same network that her late night show would've been on, and that they are taping the pilot in the same studio. Meanwhile the agent and his annoying now partner, would have a side plot about building their agency. I have to say that while I find her annoying, her belief in him in endearing.

They've barely touched on the storyline of Deb and her sister. That could be a season right there

I still wish they had cast Annie Potts as her sister.

R320 That could figure in a Hollywood season, I would suspect her sister lives in Southern California.

r321 Designing Women was a long, long time ago. The rest of the world has moved on.

I would bet that more than half of the Hacks audience has never seen Designing Women and either were in diapers or weren't even born when it was on tv.

And the daughter’s storyline.

R323 Your snark has been noted and ignored.

I don't want them to be their DW characters. I just know they have excellent chemistry. Annie's stuck on that awful Sheldon show. Playing Deb's sister who slept with her husband would be amazing.

r326 they most likely don't want to revisit the past and have endless comparisons to DW. A lot of actors are like that. And DW doesn't mean much to modern audiences.

HBO better give HACKS a Season 3.

If Apple TV can renew THE MORNING SHOW for a Season 3, HACKS deserves a Season 3.

I think the first six episodes of Season 2 were strong. Episode 7 was a bit of a slump for me. Episode 8 was a little better. The last two episodes also felt rushed at times. The editing/pacing felt different/erratic than the first six. Deborah and Ava were a little more irritating than usual. I do like the ending though.

There’s nothing that screams wealth more than an iPhone without a protective case.

I loved how nobody knew how to turn the music off in the LA house.

[quote]Annie's stuck on that awful Sheldon show.

Where she makes a hell of a lot more money than she would on Hacks.

I agree, R311. And they totally missed the exit ramp with her character - she should've been left behind at Latitude.

Or they should at least give her some character development.

"Or we can all pretend we're in a restaurant...?"

Best line of the episode.

"[R323] Your snark has been noted and ignored."

If you noted it, then you didn't ignore it.

The last episode was too rushed - lots of events crammed into 10 minutes or so. It felt like the series finale of Good Times.

They could’ve done the 9th episode as the actual finished show itself. That would’ve been awesome.

[quote]I think it ended in a great place and might be best to leave alone at this point. It was a story well told.

I agree. Or at the very least, they finished Ava's story. I could see a continuation of Deborah's story and do a season about her trying to reconcile with her sister. That might be a brave way to continue the franchise. But I honestly think they wrapped up the Deborah/Ava story about as well as they possibly could.

Some of the gays LOVE ME!

Good for the show's producers to realize that they don't want to continue the show in the direction of Laverne and Shirley Go To Hollywood.

Now that they've established that Deborah and Ava are 2 sides of the same coin, it will be interesting to see how they navigate their parallel ways through show biz without constantly being together.

They need to go back to the archetypes and Deborah needs to buy a casino.

[quote] Hannah Einbinder deserves an Emmy for this season. She really developed the character and showed some acting chops.

I agree 100% with this. And putting her as Supporting is category fraud. She is and has always been the co-lead.

There's still work to do to bring Deborah into the modern age. They had to release her special on DVD? Loved the line from the QVC host that she couldn't remember how to open a DVD case

Einbinder will never win an Emmy as lead, she doesn’t have the acting chops Smart does.

Season 3 should have a time jump. See where they both are 5 years down the line

Trust me, 5 years from now ain't doing any favors in the looks department to any of these characters

That last scene between Deborah and Ava brought me to tears, and I didn't think this show was capable of doing that. Einbinder should get an Emmy just for her pure heartbreak in that scene.

There's nowhere left for that relationship to go that won't be retreading old ground.

But if it's renewed (it will be), expect Ava to be writing and producing Deborah's next comeback vehicle, a sitcom.

Loved that all the music in the season finale was from Debroah's stuck in the 80's Hollywood mansion playlist

It was so smart of Deborah to let Ava go. She knew that Ava had some buzz going, and you have to strike when you're hot. Deep down Deborah knew that Ava would be doing herself no favors by sticking around, she had to go out there and make her own career.

I'd rather they end the show on the second season than keep going and probably make Deborah die of a botched plastic surgery, like Joan Rivers, and the rest of the cast having to deal with the aftermath.

I guess the finale explained what managers are good for.

"He's alright!"

Joan Rivers didn't die from a botched plastic surgery

I'm wondering if a possible endgame for the show is for Deborah to finally get her late-night talk show.

A 70 year-old woman getting a late-night talk show? Dream on.

r353, yep. You are right. Sorry for my mistake at r351.

Deborah and Ava could open their own design firm.

r349 I loved all the little touches to show how dated and stuck in time Deborah is.

Or their own casino where Deborah could perform...

Jean Smart gets an A+ for her standup delivery. The closeups are incredible when she tells stories or jokes and takes lots of pauses as if she is thinking up the joke and listening for validation from the audience while making herself laugh. She's pulling off perfect standup-comic timing while also delivering a multilayered characterization.

I found the last two episodes incredibly moving and even had to wipe away tears a few times. I'd say that's a job well done. It ended so well this season that a part of me wants them to end it here on a high note. It wrapped up everything so well.

Still, I'd love to see these characters for several more seasons.

R348 i was almost in tears too. Seeing how many hoops they had to jump through to get that special and sell it on QVC of all places. That took a lot of faith !

What got me is, Deb realizing it's better for Ava to grow her own wings and fly so to speak. The " they want you now" is what got me. The hand on the cheek and Ava balling <3 They bonded , it was so sweet.

My favorite character from this season is the psychic.

It's a platonic intergenerational foster family love story and it's wonderful.

Watching Hacks and thinking how special and god-like it must have felt for ultra stars like Sinatra, Elvis P etc back in the 50s + 60s.

The shit these stars got away would probably blow our minds

As others have said, I wasn’t expecting to get teary watching the finale. It felt…earned? I know it will get another season, thankfully, but it really was a perfect capper.

Einbender really does deserve the supporting comedy actress Emmy. Yes, she was in it just as much as Jean Smart, but no way will they put her in lead. Her only real competition is Hannah Waddingham from TED LASSO or Alex Borstein from MRS. MAISEL, but they have both won before. The only other person I would love to see win this category is the hilarious Janelle James from ABBOTT ELEMENTARY. She was hilarious.

R338, Glow did that and it was awesome! Hopefully Hacks does at some point.

R363 i like the way you put it 😭

In some scenes I was like damn she loves Ava like a daughter, her real daughter.

I don't mind Kayla. She pops off random shit a consequence free rich kid would say. At least now we know the devil has an uncut dick thanks to her.

Those last two episodes moved at such a breakneck pace, with so much packed into one hour, that I could barely keep up. The move to LA, pitching the special, filming the special, the end of Ava’s tenure with Deb, this all could have been covered over an entire third season. It felt so rushed, and Ava’s time with Deborah on the road felt unnecessarily truncated. Road trips are gold for comedic moments and fish out of water scenarios, it’s a shame we didn’t get to see more of the tour. I can’t understand why this season was only eight episodes considering the success of the first season. Given the limited runtime, it’s infuriating they spent so much time on the agent and his loudmouth, crass assistant. She seems like she belongs in a different (much more lowbrow) show. Get rid of her.

Hacks is HBO Max’s biggest hit, it’s their critical darling, so clearly it will come back. It will be interesting to see how they manage to explain Ava drifting back into Deborah’s orbit. One thing I think the writers should do - bring in an actual comedian, preferably someone of Deborah’s generation. The show is witty and utterly charming, but Deborah’s standup material just isn’t very funny. There are some decent lines, but they’ve yet to demonstrate *why* she’s this icon of comedy. Compare what we’ve heard of her sets, to Joan Rivers for instance. There’s no comparison. It’s the difference between a chuckle here or there, and uproarious laughter. I would like to see them improve on this.

I agree, r368. The show itself is packed with laugh out loud moments, but the standup parts are more “soft chuckle” than belly laughs. See also: Mrs. Maisel.

R368 There's no comparison to Joan Rivers and there can't be. The character (and Maisel) obviously draw veey heavily from Rivers's life but neither is anywhere as close and neither could be. Rivers had a library of one-liners that ranged from cutting to silly always at the ready like an automatic artillery and she had an endlessly quick wit. Many of us thought Kathy Griffin was her heir apparent but taking over Fashion Police proved Griffin is a hilarious storyteller but not at all the type of comic Rivers was. (Betty White actually comes very close in some talk show interviews.)

Despite her doing QVC and being super-wealthy and almost having a talk show, Deborah could also be compared to women like Roseanne, who is more of her era than Joan, or Rita Rudner or Rosie O'Donnell or Ellen or some 80s comedian who also had a sitcom and still does standup but is seen as kind of stale in her style and subject matter. Joan had and did too much work to get stale.

I feel that Deborah’s comedy is more story-telling than a joke with big punch line

R371 I think she was introduced as a punchline-driven comic and right now she is exploring storytelling and hasn't really figured it out yet. I remember during the first season Ava thought Deborah's old-fashioned setup-punchline formula was lame until she had to watch archival video and found herself laughing.

[quote]See also: Mrs. Maisel.

No, thanks.

(That's a commentary on the show, not your comment.)

R373 I put off watching the newest season because I remembered being annoyed throughout the last one. I finally watched it last week and I liked it a lot. It is absolutely delicious to look at, I enjoyed the story sooo much more than the prior season and there were times I actually liked Midge.

She still isn't funny at all, though. It's really weird. On Hacks, Ava isn't very funny and she's always going off on tiring sociopolitical rants, but that's all Midge Maisel does as her comedy act and it is the big weakness of the show. But I didn't mind the actress at all this season.

From the archival material, we've seen that Deborah's been famous since the early/mid 70s. She predates Roseanne, Rosie and Ellen by many years.

You and me both R373.

[quote] One thing I think the writers should do - bring in an actual comedian, preferably someone of Deborah’s generation.

They do have Luenell in the cast. So it's not like they don't know one.

Also, I just found out that the actress who plays Marcus' mother, is Marla Gibbs' daughter.

The show is called "Hacks" for a reason.

My impression is that she's not an icon of comedy in the same way Joan Rivers was. She's more like the female comic version of Wayne Newton. Big fish in the small pond of Vegas, with a smattering of mainstream success in her past. Getting rich resting on her laurels and recycling the old hits for the after-buffet tourist crowd. And that type of Vegas celebrity has now pretty much vanished, with so many truly huge mainstream acts doing Vegas residencies, the entertainment landscape in the city has changed forever. The show isn't about some brilliant, legendary superstar. It's about a middling-level has-been celebrity forced to reinvent herself.

That's why I don't think the stand-up routines needed to be all that hilarious. And if the future seasons focus on, say, a sitcom comeback for Deborah, they can shitcan the stand-up routines altogether. If it's a talk show that involves a daily/nightly monologue, they will probably have to step it up, though.

Is Luenell that Fire Plug woman who hangs out with Marcus' mother at his house and is always eating? I want to know how she wipes her Ass with those bedazzled nailstalons without puncturing her rectum! Maybe she uses a plunger handle and attaches a wet wash cloth and 'cleanses' the area to the best of her ability.

r378 I agree with your assessment of Deborah's level of celebrity. She was never a huge successful stand up comic in the league of Joan Rivers or Roseanne Barr. She was more like an Elayne Boosler or a Rita Rudner. She had a decent level of success decades ago but was never a huge star, and even though she's still around she's been out of the mainstream celebrity landscape for a long time. The general public is like "oh yeah, I remember her from years ago. She's still around? I haven't thought of her in ages" when Deborah Vance's name is mentioned.

Anyone know what having a residency in Vegas entails?

Like how much was Britney making? And how lavish were her living quarters?

r379, She uses those nails for precisely just that purpose.

R380 but if Deborah Vance is some C-list has been who people barely remember, how can she afford palatial mansions in Vegas and Beverly Hills, Rolls-Royces, Learjets, the very best tour bus. She’s living like an A-lister, or at least like Hollywood Royalty. Even Joan admitted to having to hustle until the end to maintain the lifestyle to which she had become accustomed. Deborah Vance is clearly a very rich woman.

She's an old school Vegas staple, selling out thousands of shows. Plus the first season got into all of her side gigs. She opened a pizza store for 100k or something and stock options. She's really successful on QVC. Marcus was once pitching her an appearance at corporate retreat for 65k for a few hours and she told him to get it to 75k and she'd do it. She's all about the hustle. She berated Ava for looking down on the pizza opening. We don't see all of it, but I think we're to assume that Deborah has been doing myriad gigs of all sorts for decades to pad her income. Literally hundreds of gigs per year. Plus she probably invested a lot over the years.

Does it all add up to the wealth she displays. I don't know. But I can accept the built world of the show. Assuming everything I wrote is plausible, I can accept the level of wealth they show her having.

I'm watching Mrs. Kathy's "A Hell of A Story" for the millionth time and it just occured to me that Debra's season 2 tour mirrors it quite closely. Mrs. Kathy financed that tour herself because nobody in hell was ever gonna finance it and she workshopped it overseas, and it was a smash.

If the Kardashians can be Billionaires, so can Deborah.

r383 Joan Rivers was rich AF. She cried poor all the time but she had enough money for 20 lifetimes.

Joan Rivers died with $150 million in the bank.

I liked the finale but I thought Deb buying a Kandinsky at auction (for $800K) only to give it away was absurd. If she collects art at all, she'd never collect that art. And she's much too savvy to overbid for a Modernist work on paper.

She doesn't collect that art; she said she hated it. They explained why she did it, even if it was still questionable that she did it in the first place.

I just realized the art collector guy in season one is the prissy guy with the book review show from Julia.

Did you actually watch the episode R389?

She bought the picture as leverage to use to get the one night at the Palmetto. She quite clearly says that she hates the artist.

R389 must have fallen asleep with his wine glass in his hand halfway through the episode.

The auction was followed by an extended scene of her bargaining with the Palemetto owner. She knew he wanted the painting and she trades it for one night at the casino auditorium to record her special. He's baffled and tells her that he would have given her the space if she had just asked and she didn't have to spend a fortune on a painting he knows she hates. She looked a little stupefied for a moment but then seemed to be resolved to getting what she wants and moving on.

The setup showed a lot of layers of Deborah. First, she wielded her financial power to get what she wanted. At the same time, she wielded her financial power to fuck over a man who she felt had fucked her over, or at least who hurts her and betrays her. He kicked her out of her business 'home,' the casino she had been a resident of for years, and in doing so rejected her and set her off into a crisis mode. He also has slept with her but rejects her romantically and she resents him for that. And she has always thought he was just a typical lecherous old man who makes poor choices to marry young women who prey on his money, but she just found out he is marrying a woman close to Deborah's age, which means that he's not just after a young trophy wife; rather, Deborah just is not good enough for him.

So she is very hurt and as a result, she acts out of vengeance, and she exerts poor judgment in unnecessarily spending a hell of a lot of money (more than Ava has to give her in a lawsuit!) on a painting that means nothing to her just to keep him from getting what he wants unless he goes through her. Rubbing his face in the result doesn't shake out in the way she had hoped. She gets to flaunt her greater wealth, and she does get to bargain with the painting, but instead of feeling backed into a corner, he is baffled by her foolish decision making and feels bad for her.

And in the end, she still accomplishes her greater goal, as she usually seems to do, often by compromising herself. Her journey since we have met her is to finally stop compromising her comedy and to succeed by expressing herself honestly. She is on a mission to tell her own story her own way instead of formulaic jokes, and she is met with rejection and discouragement from the networks, casino managers, audiences, old friends along the way—everyone except Ava, who is the sole person who encourages and supports her on this mission of growing personally and as a comic, and she tries really hard to push Ava away while challenging Ava to stay with her and Ava does stay with her. Her manager ultimately does, too, and she is tempted to abandon him and make a poor relationship choice but she chooses her reliable manager. She, thanks to her support system—Ava, her manager, no one else—have enough faith in her talent that they all forge ahead despite everyone rejecting Deborah's attempt to reinvent herself, and she ultimately "self-publishes" and finds that doing it her way, not the conventional way, works for her and she found out who her real friends are.

The performances are wonderful, and especially Smart, who I am now convinced is a genius, but it's the writing of this series that makes it so moving. So many contradictions and unexpected payoffs. The plot isn't seamless, but emotionally, the writing is perfect. Deborah can't help being who she is and she's not a good mother at all but she's not a horrible person and she is a deeply loving person but has a lot of damage and she tests everyone in her life for loyalty, and also for outside personal validation that she's not just some hack who has made ways to make a lot of money.

She is a standup comic and all of the relationships in her life are business: the person she hired to give her writing a voice, the manager she pays to keep her career afloat, the business manager she pays to keep her generating profits. He even calls himself the CEO of her life. And for her, it's all done to feel valued and validated and to have more power than the people who are in positions to hurt her.

Or to put the prior posts in a nutshell, I think:

Hacks is about two insecure, overcompensating people who belong to different generations and who have different professional, societal and personal baggage coming head to head and finding that their equally strong wills give each one the pushback they need not only to grow as people but to want to grow as people. And the reason the focus has expanded to the sidekick characters is because Deborah and Ava have rubbed off on them. The CEO is now realizing he needs personal success and not just financial success. The manager is growing professionally, branching out on his own after choosing a personal loyalty over an uncaring corporate machine. His assistant is looking to him as a role model. She admires him and is choosing to be loyal to him, and he's showing some growth by tolerating her and choosing finally to mentor her, whereas last year he was a struggling agent himself.

Hacks is all about personal growth, people who have been 'hacks' in life generally and hacking into ways to grow developmentally.

The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, by comparison, is about history and feminism, and Maisel is not really a person but a pawn of the story who represents feminist determination. It's not the actress's fault that she's unlikable. She's unlikable because the characterization is superficial to the same extent the ones in Hacks are deeply layered.

Jean Smart is a brilliant actor, but she also has better material to work with. She's given the luxury of being filmed in close up with a camera that lingers and shows us Deborah's thought processes, her self-doubt and her 'atta girl!' triumphs while she delivers a revelatory monologue. (It's not crucial that the jokes are hilarious because the viewer should be more invested in Deborah's feelings about herself in those moments.) Maisel doesn't give Rachel Brosnahan any such luxuries as an actor. Her jokes don't have deeply personal moments that surprise her as Deborah Vance's do, and she doesn't pause to wait for the audience's affirmations or rejection. She's certain she is the funniest guy on the stage, she has no self-doubt and she just fires off snarky and sarcastic biting jokes like an AR-15 of jokes. She's not vulnerable; she's a bulldozer. Since we're not inside her head during her standup act, the jokes have to work and they just never do, because Midge Maisel is not a portrait of a vulnerable comedian but a surrogate for a feminist movement. Deborah has screwed up her kid but she does think about her and she makes sacrifices for her, whereas Maisel's only thought with respect to her kids is who to dump them on to get them out of the way so she can tour. I don't think she has ever had a human moment with her children onscreen, whereas every moment Deborah has with her adult daughter is anchored in mutual hurt and pathos.

^ The nut that came out of your nutshell have fed three hundred people.

R396 My nuts are packed full. You can always expect a deluge when they open up.

What exactly was the purpose of the guy dying during the filming of the special and the manager making the choice to lie about it? Dramaturgically, I mean? Why was that story beat even there? To show that he was still on Deborah's side after being dismissed from her dressing room?

It just felt very odd that the truth about someone dying during the taping of her big comeback special was never mentioned again.

r398, her manager had her back. He had proven his loyalty once again, and guys like Deborah reward loyalty.

What was important that the good mood didn't change for the sake of the taping. And I guess Deborah got lucky that nobody caused a media fuss about the guy actually dying. Maybe he was a loner, maybe Deborah's enemy didn't find out, maybe ... whatever.

Mingwa's character tells Deborah that Jimmy is too nice to be a good manager. This was meant to show the audience he does have what it takes, can even be underhanded if necessary to protect his client r398.

^ I thought that might be where they were going... the special killed by the reveal the guy did die.

I didn't feel the last two episodes were as good as everything else in the second series. It felt rushed and crammed but with some real genius, too. One of the very best shows on television.

What I thought was interesting (if I remember it correctly) what Jimmy didn't hear her say that. So his inner shark just exists, it wasn't a reaction.

The casino owner had actually proposed to Deborah at one point. Did you miss Marcus saying that "but it was a real diamond"? I hope they don't dumb down the next season.

I agree with R401. The final two episodes were fine, but not as good as the first six. It really did feel crammed and would have worked better over four episodes to equal the 10 of the first season. But, whatever, still enjoyed it,

I think the quick montage when Deborah figured it out, was on point. When it clicks, all comes together almost instantly. That's how it usually happens during the creative process. The team has no fucking clue, goes on wild goose chases, a few good ideas here and there but nothing clicks, and then someone makes an offhand remark and all of a sudden it gets the ball rolling in the right direction and everything clicks into place, and it creates a fast momentum towards the finish line.

At the beginning of season three, Ava realizes she has always been Evan. Deborah is taken aback and they have some tension, but then Deborah comes around as she realizes she loves Evan more than her daughter but never could express the full extent of that maternal love with Ava because it was too direct a hit to her daughter's ego—but there is room for her daughter to have an adoptive brother. She adopts Evan, who then becomes something like Chas Bono, and is cast as a witty judge on a drag competition show where drag queens regularly impersonate the iconic Deborah.

The pacing did feel rushed, but you only have 8 3O minute episodes and they wanted to wrap it all up

It was rushed, but it was basically an epilogue to wrap up the story. I don't mind the fast-forward approach if it is emotionally resonant. Six Feet Under pummelled us emotionally with its series-ending fast forwarding.

I'm fine with the show ending. The second season was a big improvement over the first but it's not the type of show that needs to go on for years and years.

I would have mad respect for the show runners if they do decide to end it when fans demand more instead of screaming "dear God, make it stop!".

I didn't like that little detour of Ava hooking up with the rude lesbian. She was an unpleasant person and it contributed nothing to the overall story. Maybe they planned on making her a bigger character and then abandoned it. Who the hell makes coffee for themselves and then sips it in front of their guest? Fucking animal.

r410, it's the lifeblood of any comedy writer and stand-up comedian: Unpleasant, fucked up real life events.

I actually like HACKS' unsentimental view of lesbians, particularly 20-something lesbians. Yes, that woman was rude and horrible but a very plausible type in LA.

Frankly a person that wants you to leave after a hook up is very realistic. Their "guest" oh my r410, you sound so sweet and innocent. Many guys aren't running a hotel, after they nut they might want you to get the fuck out

As a gay man who had lots of casual sex when I was younger, the "rude lesbian" tenant was both shockingly rude and believably so. I can't believe some of the things guys have said and done both upon meeting and immediately following sex. It used to leave me feeling astonished too often.

A couple of the first guys I ever hooked up with at age 18 were aggressively sexual and also complimentary and sweet and then immediately following ejaculation put on their clothes and told me they were married and rushed out the door. I was a horny lil thing and hooked up with one of them several more times and it was always the same.

In my early 20s, I did threeways with a couple several times and they were both normal and down to Earth, friendly before and after the act, invited/encouraged me back. And then after the last time they never spoke to me again. Had it been one hookup I would have taken it personally and felt horrible about myself, but since I knew they had been attracted to me and wanted me many times, it was just baffling and cold hearted.

One guy put on his clothes and said he was going to get breakfast and I asked if he wanted company and he looked like I was totally crazy and said something like, "No, it was just sex, we're not friends!" and told me to leave so he could go.

I have no problem believing the rude lesbian encounter.

Absolutely r413, I've been on both sides of that equation. However I think that once someone spends the entire night sleeping in your bed the polite thing to do is to offer them coffee, or at least not drink it in front of them like a fucking tool. It's just basic manners.

R415 I would bet that if that made it into the script, it's probably based on someone's real-life experience. The actress who plays Ava says the character is so well-drawn as a queer woman because the writers who write her are queer people and they draw from their own lives.

Well, though, according to the subletter's perspective, she'd already let her sleep half the day away. It wasn't really morning anymore, and she (?) was probably desperate to get Ava out of there.

She also may have come to her senses and realized the property owner she never met knocked on her door and had sex with her, then made herself very comfortable, and thought "this is supposed to be a business arrangement and I'm getting the feeling if I get close to this strange creature I'll be out on my ass when I hurt her feelings."

I think some people missed that Ava overslept for some reason and the tenant let her sleep, because Ava looked tired while sleeping. LOL

Not being rude, but I'd be a little bit pissed if a trick is screwing with my schedule of that day, because he thinks he can stay at my place for as long as he wants.

R419 You just wrote yourself that Ava didn't choose to overstay her welcome; the woman let her stay because she looked tired while sleeping (something Deborah said to her days earlier).

r420, but isn't that the common dilemma? "You're the asshole, for making ME look like the asshole in this situation".

The tenant would've been a cunt either way. "Rudely" waking Ava up in the morning and asking her to leave, or waiting around noon (I guess) and then asking her to leave without a proper sendoff.

[quote]I would have mad respect for the show runners if they do decide to end it when fans demand more instead of screaming "dear God, make it stop!".

People make entertainment for money and employment. If art erupts, it's just a happy coincidence. If they can at third they'll like it and so will their banker.

Series like Game of Thrones and True Blood aside, HBO does have an unusual track record of quality.

The Sopranos went on for years and its quality never suffered much.

Curb Your Enthusiasm started off as an annoying improv experiment and 20 years later, it has become 10 times better than it was for its first five seasons.

It's kind of a stupid rule, but as a rule, it seems like HBO's series with average-looking to homely people do not suffer much in quality, and those with sexy primary cast members and titillating scenes are the low-quality cash cows.

What sort of life will these made-for-streaming series have in the future? Right now, HACKS has 18 eps, compared to the 100 episodes most traditional network shows needed for syndication.

The one thing that bothered me about Deborah and the painting, is that she only asked for the Theater. Earlier, Marcus had told her they didn't have a mailing list because it belonged to the Palmetto. After she knew she had real leverage over him she should've asked for the theater and the mailing list.

R426 She doesn't make savvy business decisions. That's why she has a business manager.

Ava made a joke about that this season—

[quote] People make entertainment for money and employment. If art erupts, it's just a happy coincidence. If they can at third they'll like it and so will their banker.

That is true, that is why I included "I would have mad respect" in my comment at r409. I think it takes a lot of courage to rather go for a high level of trust and respect from the audience to deliver good and strong series (from start to finish) in the future. That can help in terms of ratings, or streams, of early episodes of other projects.

R427 I just figured she had met and planned with Marcus prior to the auction.

Deborah isn't really smart with her money. Remember, she offered that misogynistic stand-up comedian a ton of money to give up stand-up comedy, just to make a point. Of course, it was a good point, but not a sound business decision.

R426, they become part of the streaming service's catalogue. You don't buy the show, you buy the service. Under the coventional over the air model of old, the station or network bought the individual shows.

But it raises the interesting question: how do residuals work when your work is just a brick in HBO or Disney's wall? Lots of actors stayed rich in unemployment on residuals because so many stations bought the show. Now it's it's free to watch if you've paid your subscription to the wonderful world of HBO or what have you... how does the actor keep cashing in?

R431 It may be that the model is just changing. The idea of actors retiring on residuals is less relevant to actors like Jean Smart, who at 70 is taking roles because they are interesting and fun roles to play and a type of role only streaming services seem to be providing. If you're still eagerly working into your 70s because you love the work, then who needs to rest on the steady income of royalties?

Yeah the idea of syndication on TV is outdated in the streaming era r426. Now it is a fight to have shows as part of your streaming library, this show will live forever in HBO's library.

Actors do get residuals from streaming r431. That has been negotiated into the SAG-AFRA contracts, though my understanding is it doesn't tend to be as much as they would like.

R433 That is going to be where the potential of strikes in Hollywood over the next decade or two will come from. Streaming was allowed to pay smaller amounts because they were a new untried industry, often independently owned. Now they are owned by behemoths and have become dominant. They are going to have to give up more money for the creatives.

Jean Smart is an exception, not a rule. And as I understand it, everybody likes to live in as much comfort as possible, even in old age.

R435 She isn't really different. Residuals are what allows older actors, like Smart, to take the roles they want to take instead of what they have to take.

I hated the episode where she gave the comic a million.Totally fantasy and ridiculous. Most have been written a young person who can’t tolerate unpleasant people. Give the money to a charity and not to shut up one asshole!

They have to be wanted, is the point. There aren't that many 70 year olds with thriving careers - whether they want the part or not. Name me five actors over 70 working enough to live?

^ I put that badly, because I can name Glenn Close, Judi Dench, Helen Mirren, until recently Maggie Smith and Meryl. My point was not long standing big stars... but the Jean Smarts of the world... there aren't a ton of them because there aren't a ton of parts for them because who wants old people?

R438 Jane Fonda, Judi Dench, Maggie Smith, Lily Tomlin, Helen Mirren, Ian McKellen, Patrick Stewart, Michael Douglas, Martin Sheen, Morgan Freeman, Steve Martin, Diane Keaton, Susan Sarandon, Jessica Lange to name a few off the top of my head

I would argue almost all those names, except maybe Sheen and Lange, have had long standing, lucrative careers involving big movie salaries at points. In any event, I'm done arguing it... I didn't make the strongest point there.

R439 I think there are a lot of recognizable character actors primarily on TV who have had careers like Jean Smart's without this most recent breakthrough, and they work steadily and we recognize them but mostly don't think of them until we see them. Lots of them on sitcoms and who pop in and out of streaming series. Most just haven't had a big critically acclaimed starring roles like the one Hacks gave Jean Smart. They're more like the role she played in Mare of Easttown—interfering elderly parent with quirks that make the character stand out as a sidekick instead of as a leading character.

Agreed with that.

These sorts of people who work constantly

R444 I got 18/19

Dat is a nice azz

Well, that answer that...

That's great it will come back and HBO would be nuts not to pick it up. I mean, if they'll renew Seabiscuit with no discernible improvements, Hacks should be a no brainer.

HACKS needs a transgressive, paradigm-shifting character like Che Diaz!

Michael Patrick King should show runner Hacks!

With all the awards and crap that Season 1 got, why did they cut two episodes from the original 10 ordered for season 2?

They sort of did, R449. Ava’s coffee drinking subletter.

HBO better fucking let them tell the rest of their story. The reddit on this show only has a few thousand members.

I found the last 10 minutes emotionally painful to watch. It brought back memories of my History Of Film professor telling me I'd gone as far as I could go.

I didn’t realize that the psychic was Polly Draper from Thirty-something.

[quote] I found the last 10 minutes emotionally painful to watch. It brought back memories of my History Of Film professor telling me I'd gone as far as I could go.

Same. Except it brought back memories of a bottom telling me I'd gone as far as I could go.

Is this show funny? I watched season 1 because I think Jean Smart is wonderful. Some situational stuff is great, like Deborah changing the CO2 canister. But for a show that's about comedy much of it falls flat, or is awkward. I know, that's the point. Isn't it?

Anyway I'm starting season 2, so that I can be a conversant HBO viewer.

it's got some funny parts, r457. but it's mostly drama.

I think we are beyond strict genre classifications for the best entertainment now.

I Love Lucy and Laverne & Shirley never got dramatic. Not once.

Old Hollywood melodramas generally had zero comic relief. And that is one aspect of them that made them so hard to believe.

The Sopranos is undoubtedly one of the greatest TV dramas ever and it was as funny as it was dramatic.

The White Lotus and Enlightened by Mike White, All in the Family and countless other great sophisticated comedies are situationally hilarious but also can be disturbing. Even if the setups are comedic, the contexts and characters are unsettling.

Shakespeare's comedies are full of dramatic intrigue. They were made to make people laugh but they had tons of dramatic irony and tension that made the plots high stakes. The characteristic that made them comedies was simply 'all's well that ends well.' If the whole family doesn't die, then it's a happy ending and therefore a comedy.

Scrubs was a comedy about doctors, people who work in a high-stakes, serious profession. We all understood that the show was meant to be funny despite the characters' jobs and even in the face of some life-or-death plots.

Hacks is a dramedy that is about a comedian and a comedy writer. Just because the characters work in comedy doesn't mean the show has to fall neatly within the comedy genre. It is written to be funny but also to be serious for the characters.

I think it is meant to be a platonic romance more than anything, and that is probably why the genre seems confusing to people. It doesn't quite fulfill expected tropes.

Shakespeare's 'romance plays' are not romantic plays. They're also called 'problem plays' because they play out like tragedies but end like comedies, and so they can't be classified as either and someone stuck the confusing and misleading label romance to them. I think Hacks is a romance in the sense that Deborah and Ava are basically soul mates in a familial, non-sexual way, but with the same kind of antagonistic-caring tension romantic couples have, and it's also a romance in the Shakespearean sense in that lots of bad things happen to the people and they are unhappy much of the time, but all's well that ends well.

R459-Smell you.

R460 I smell like dragon's blood and vanilla tobacco today.

Hacks is a fucking brilliant show. HBO must pick it up.

[quote]I Love Lucy and Laverne & Shirley never got dramatic. Not once.

Which is why the prat falls and slapstick of Ricky singing Were Having a Baby, My Baby and Me, brought a NATION TO TEARS! Dec. 8, 1952.

R463 That scene was written to be funny. I just read about this in Lucy & Desi. It was meant to emphasize Ricky's not knowing as a big joke, and Lucy and Desi were having major relationship problems when the scene was filled, and Desi got choked up during the recording and then Lucille unexpectedly began to cry. That was an authentically emotional moment of Desi and Lucille's, not so much of Lucy and Ricky.

[quote] It is written to be funny but also to be serious for the characters

And then there are a bunch of scenes which are neither.

Like the ones with the agent's receptionist. It's like a whole different show.

One that I wish I weren't watching.

r465, So the entire nation knew that? Bla-bla-bla. Don't speak in absolutes.

R459 smells like Cunt Della.

In our house, we love Kayla. All our friends do, too.

I enjoy Kayla, too. Especially now that she isn't just a cartoonish Karen Walker-like incompetent and handsy character that she was in the first season.

Hiring someone like Annie Potts , who has a history with Jean Smart, reminded me that Jean and Harriet Harris played the two female leads in THE MAN WHO CAME TO DINNER on Broadway 20 years ago.

Oh honey, r469 there will never be another Karen.

[quote] In our house, we love Kayla. All our friends do, too.

I've heard this from others. There must be something I'm missing in her performance.

I only like Kayla in very small doses; two lines per episode would be more than enough.

I like her too. She's absolutely absurd, has nothing to do with anything except to provide some insanity. She's ridiculous. I'm surprised they're trying to give her some depth but I guess if you take her away from her desk, you've got to.

It seemed like Hannah had fallen in love with Deborah by the end of the season. Did anyone else read it that way? The way she was watching Deb's QVC segment in the last scene when Jimmy called and was looking at her longingly. There relationship seemed close to romantic at the end but also mother/daughter-like as mentioned above. Very interesting dynamic.

Sorry y'all, I meant *their* not 'there'. Feel free to Oh Dear me if you'd like.

Oh deer

[quote]It seemed like Hannah had fallen in love with Deborah by the end of the season. Did anyone else read it that way?

No.

Yeah, I didn't see it as Hannah falling in love with Deborah. They become friends and Hannah cares about her.

Hannah went from deriding Deborah as a hack to worshipping her.

R479 We talking Hannah or Ava? Hannah likes the ladies, is it established that Ava does too?

I meant Ava, R481. Sorry.

I meant Ava as well!

Devon Sawa (Final Destination) looked like delicious rough trade as Deborah’s one nighter.

I think they've fallen in love with one another, but obviously a platonic familial love. I think that is fair to say and the most accurate way to characterize it.

Everything about the relationship is pretty much a classic romantic comedy, with the two star-crossed lovers having their 'meet cute' and then repelling one another while being inexplicably drawn together, ultimately to find that they relate better to one another and enjoy one another's company than they do to anyone else in their lives.

Deborah is a surrogate mother who isn't as affectionate as her mother but who is more down to earth and in some ways a better role model, and Ava is a surrogate daughter who she respects more than her own and also a reflection of Deborah who Deborah can mold—and to show how much she really loves her, she pushes Ava out of the nest at the end so she will fly after she's had all her comedy, career and life lessons.

It's a story about two unlikely soul mates, which is a love story that isn't romantic but can be as moving and deeply felt as any romantic love story.

The show has stated over and over again that Deborah and Ava are the same type of person, just at different ages, stages and having grown up in different eras

Also my read on Deborah is that she respects what delivers value and some affection grows from there. But first, for her, you gotta deliver the goods.

Deborah is an odd person. On one hand she comes off like "you must prove to me that you are worthy of my approval, only then you'll get it!" and "I have no time for this bullshit, I have my career to think about! My career comes first!", but then gives Ava chance after chance after chance and not dropping her for all the fuck-ups and bad advice.

R488 That's what makes her a brilliant character—full of contradictions, like a real person.

In her email about Deborah, Ava said that Deborah is a terrible mother and that her daughter doesn't love her. She also said Deborah lets her daughter sell stories and bad photos of Deborah to tabloids for profit.

Deborah is not a good mother for the daughter she has. But she is a loving mother who really wants her daughter to be happy and she puts time and thought and effort and money into trying to make her daughter as happy as she can. She and her daughter are just a poor match.

Meanwhile, Deborah is the best possible mother figure for Ava even though (and because) she is so hard on Ava. And that presents its own complexity and pathos. And Deborah and Ava simultaneously reject one another while desperately wanting to impress the other. They know they are compatible and alike and they also believe, on and off, that they or that the other one would be better off if they went their separate ways.

These are contradictions and a type of subtext true to human beings we usually only get in literature, not in entertainment. Mike White pulls off similar complexities in Enlightened and The White Lotus. In Enlightened, Amy (is that her name?) is a totally selfish and not nice person who desperately and very genuinely works to be a good person and doesn't achieve it. She's crazy. She's awful. But there's something admirable in her goal and her efforts. If these characters were subjected to focus groups, people would say they are unbelievably inconsistent and the networks or studios would force the writers to make the characters into flat Friends-type character types who have no authentic humanity.

Ah, the nutshell is back.

[quote] I think they've fallen in love with one another, but obviously a platonic familial love. I think that is fair to say and the most accurate way to characterize it.

Yes, too many people seem to have forgotten that there are types of love other than romantic.

Renewed.

R492: thanks and YAY!

I am very interested in seeing how they continue the story.

My guess is The Deborah Vance Show. We've seen shows before where the principals are separated. It doesn't work. In this format it would be like two mini shows in one. So I bet Deb gets a series and Ava is brought in to write or show runner. I don't think it's an accident Deb has a house yet in L.A.

"Yes, too many people seem to have forgotten that there are types of love other than romantic. "

Duh. But "falling in love" is almost always in reference to romantic love.

Deborah has work to do to achieve a healthy romantic relationship and integrate it into her life. As does Ava.

Does she "have" to r497? The idea that people must have a romantic relationship in their life is eye rolling. Part of Deborah's arc this season was her admitting to herself that she does value her career over those other avenues of life and owning who she is.

That said, from a writing perspective that is an obvious place to go.

Good point, R498. She doesn’t have to.

These writers have made good choices so I trust them to find a path forward.

[quote] But "falling in love" is almost always in reference to romantic love.

I "fell in love" with my bf's ass, well before I did with him. Far from romantic, it was down & dirty lust.

Of course you can fall in love with objects, animals, places, someone's (artistic) body of work, your bf's ass... But that poster's point was that "falling in love" in the context of human interpersonal relations, it almost always denotes romantic love. If you tell me you fell in love with someone and it's not romantic, I'll assume you're either a posh Brit who speaks in an affected manner, or a poet.

Anyway, this is semantics now. I'm excited for the new season!

R501 I fall in love with lots of things, all the time, and I am neither a posh Brit nor a poet. I am a writer/artist, though.

Pertinent to our interests.

I just finished watching season 2. For me, the greatest moment in the entire series was in episode 6 when she's doing her stand-up. When the man at the table makes the obvious choice to save his mother from cancer, Deborah pauses then responds to the audience, "See? I can't relate to that!" It was the funniest joke of the entire series. It seemed earned, and it told you everything you needed to know about Deborah. I think it should be Smart's Emmy submission.

R504 I watched the show weeks ago but I can still easily envision Jean Smart's close-ups while delivering her standup. She is SUCH a great actress. You can see her thinking, formulating her next line throughout her performance, and also listening to and reacting to the audience's reaction, laughing in a self-satisfied way when they laugh and feeling devastated when they don't. It's like her whole self-worth is being expressed moment by moment and it all comes through in her face. It's hard to believe she's reciting memorized dialogue rather than organically coming up with the words herself. It's a stark contrast to Mrs. Maisel.

I just binged season 1, and wow, that was excellent. Jean Smart is amazing.

I can't wait to binge season 2 starting next week.

Just need to pop in and say I just watched the ep last night where Deborah fucks the younger man and wow, Devon Sawa is a smoking hot daddy!

Has HBO cancelled it yet?

That last scene was genuinely touching. Mostly because of Smart.

Renewed for season three

Laurie Metcalf won the Guest Actress Emmy

I love Metcalf but hated her on Hacks. The character was so broad that she didn't resonate as remotely real.

^ Same. It was Jackie Cop Mode from Roseanne but not as funny.

I just binged S2 last night - liked it better than S1. I can understand why it received so much love from The Emmys. Jean Smart can do no wrong!

One change I would have made -

I would have cast Melissa McCarthy over Laurie Metcalf, since Metcalf was only aping McCarthy's performance from 'Bridesmaids'.

Metcalf and Smart together were wonderful on Getting On. Nowhere near as good on Hacks.

Helen Hunt, Christina Hendricks, Christopher Lloyd, Dan Bucatinsky, George Wallace, and Tony Goldwyn joining third season.

[quote]Season 3 picks up the action a year later, when Deborah Vance (Smart) is riding high off the success of her standup special while Ava (Einbinder) pursues new opportunities back in Los Angeles.

Returns in the spring.

I've enjoyed this show. It's not quite the mind-blowing criticial darling everyone seems to make it out to be, it has some weaknesses, but any Ava/Deborah scene is gold. I mean, anytime Jean is on screen, it's gold.

That said, I thought the end of season 2 was a perfect end, and don't know how the new season will work if Ava and Deborah aren't working together or crossing paths often. But I will watch.