Why is Greer Garson completely forgotten now?

Because she was annoying.

Most famous actors end up being remembered for a couple of roles, and like you said, Garson only has one (somwhat) known movie.

Norma Shearer was very successful and is forgotten now too. So is Betty Grable.

Sez who? Where do you people get these notions from? Really! And as long as Shearer and Grable's movies play on TCM and Fox and the like, they are hardly forgotten.

Who?

I don't think it's a coincidence that Greer and Norma are both forgotten, since Greer was her successor at MGM. I haven't see many Norma movies besides The Women and Marie Antoinette, but I quite enjoy Greer's body of work and don't understand the lack of interest in her. I suppose she's considered too mannered.

what kind of name is greer

I wonder if the fact that Greer never had any high-profile movie in her later years also caused her to be forgotten.

Bette and Joan had Baby Jane and Katharine had a whole series of projects and Oscars to match, but all Greer had was a very minor supporting role in Disney's The Happiest Millionaire which was a huge flop.

Forgotten by who relative to who?

r6 Greer was born Eileen Evelyn Greer Garson in London, and Greer was the Irish surname of her maternal grandfather.

I was about to make the point R7 made. It's not so much that Garson has been forgotten, more like Davis, Crawford and Hepburn are better remembered.

I couldn’t use Lucille but she gets to use Greer? Bitch.

Gottle of Greer.

[quote] Why is Greer Garson completely forgotten now?

OP, you must be senile!

Why have you forgotten we did this woman twelve weeks ago.

Pay attention!

It might have helped if Garson had been a notoriously bad mother or a major dyke.

The OP belongs in a convalescent home for the senile amnesiacs.

Ginger Spice stole her act.

Greer had a surprisingly durable career well into the mid-1950s, as a top-billed star. She married a very wealthy Texan oilman, Buddy Fogelson, in 1949 and after that really had no need to work at a career. She finished her M-G-M contract in 1954 and took over successfully for Roz Russell in Auntie Mame on Broadway in 1958, but her life was really focused on her husband. They were both noted philanthropists in Texas and in New Mexico, where they had a ranch.

Garson was rich and probably had no drive to push her career into playing axe murderers like Davis and Crawford or senility like Hepburn. Much to my surprise for many people who see it Random Harvest becomes a favorite. I've loved it ever since I saw it years ago at the Regency on a double bill with The Late George Apley. Though somebody here on DL said the book of Harvest is even better. Maybe the book makes more sense because the movie makes very little but Garson and Coleman together are irresistible and the tragic Susan Peters is wonderful.

Another one who you could say is forgotten would be Irene Dunne but she is one of the greats as all people who love old movies would agree on.

Garson was nominated for the Best Actress Oscar a total of seven times, winning on her third nomination for Mrs. Miniver. The following year she was nominated for Madame Curie, a role that Joan Crawford very desperately wanted but was denied. (But Joanie would go on to win her Oscar the very next year for Mildred Pierce.)

I used to get her mixed up with Deborah Kerr who sort of played similar roles. Now they're both forgotten.

Garson, Brando, and Kerr in "Julius Caesar" (1953).

I was briefly acquainted (through a neighbor) with a Dallas dress designer back in the late 80's - early 90's. My neighbor told me that Greer Garson was one the designer's clients and hung out with GG at her home. She was very old at the time and had somewhat of a suspicious personality, on high alert , even amongst the dress designer whom she enjoyed visiting with.

Davis, Hepburn, Crawford, and Stanwyck all had distinct personas, voices, and/or mannerisms. Anyone can do at least a bad impression of any of them and you'd recognize it. Greer Garson was a great actress like the others, but lacked the individuality of the others.

Forgotten!? The bros and me are always gassing about her at the gym!

I'm admiring Brando's sexy legs at R21. The women are covered up and Brando is the sexpot.

[quote] Brando's sexy legs

We'd see his penis if his skirt were two inches shorter.

We remember Davis, Crawford, and Hepburn as much for their lives and personalities as for their movie roles. Not much stands out in that regard for Garson. She married her Miniver son and the marriage crashed and burned a few years later with accusations of cruelty... but that's nothing compared to the byzantine personal lives of the others.

Greer Garson, for the most part, made some movies and otherwise got on with things. Her private life stayed fairly private and she didn't have any particularly "kooky" characteristics that stood out, unlike Hepburn, et al. So all that we really could remember her for are her movies, and she only made a handful that are much regarded today.

Actually, given all this it's remarkable that Greer Garson is remembered at all.

In my youth (1970-ish) I had an Elmer Fudd type "Daddy" who owned racehorses. He had a private box seat at the Santa Anita Race Track right behind Greer and Buddy. I found the races boring in the extreme. Before we'd hit the track I'd make my Elmer Fudd stop at a magazine rack and purchase thick and expensive European fashion magazines. Armed with these magazines I'd plant my ass in our seats and bury my head in the mags. Before the start of the first race, I would hand Elmer a 5 dollar bill. I never went home with less than $500.00 by the end of the day. Greer and Buddy weren't often there but when they were she was naturally an object of extreme fascination to me. With her flame-red hair and a wide-brimmed hat with a modest veil and gross-grain ribbon to top it off, she was "A STAR." After a few trips to the track, she would nod her head in my direction. We never spoke but I noticed she would smoke one cigarette over the course of the day. Once I was ready with a lighter and she looked at me, then looked at Elmer, raised her eyebrow in an "all-knowing" way, and said. "Thank you."

That’s a great story, R28, thanks!

R1 nails it. A not-too-bright gold-plated Hollywood fraud who believed her own publicity.

I don’t know her

R19 It always made me laugh that Joan was desperate to play Madame Curie but she referred to her as that egghead scientist.

R20 I wouldn't say Deborah Kerr is forgotten at all. The King and I, An Affair to Remember, and From Here to Eternity are still hailed as classics. Black Narcissus and The Innocents are beloved films as well, even if they're not as mainstream of titles as the aforementioned three. To this day, she's the actress with the highest number of Oscar nominated performances as a lead to never win an Oscar. And that beach scene in From Here to Eternity is still considered one of the most iconic love scenes in all of cinema so that alone would keep her remembered.

Maybe it's because 1940s was LONG time ago. Do we still talk about the stage actors or silent movie stars from 1900~1920? Occasionally maybe, names like Valentino, Gilbert or Fairbanks were mentioned once a while, but the stars from that era were largely all forgotten no matter how brilliant they were during their time.

"Bette Davis, Katharine Hepburn, Joan Crawford, and Barbara Stanwyck..." are still fondly remembered but only to old people and film lovers, most people have no interest in them and probably will never bother to watch their movies. In 30~50 years, they will be forgotten too, their names will become footnote about early Hollywood or Oscar history from 100 years ago.

R34 How cynical. It's been 30-50 years since Davis, Crawford, Hepburn, and Stanwyck died. At this point, Joan's been dead for 45 years but look at the number of threads created in her name day by day. She's still a household name for many people because of Mildred Pierce or Mommie Dearest. When that HBO Max show "White Lotus" came out last year, one of the characters brings up Baby Jane as a pop culture reference. I still see people mention Bette Davis vs Joan Crawford and Feud certainly helped introduce them to an entirely new generation (myself included). If these women and their legendary careers haven't been forgotten about in the decades since their deaths, I don't see any danger in them being forgotten another few decades from now.

At this point Joan Crawford only exists for Gen Zs as a trope -- the deranged Hollywood star of olden times, in the same way as Hitler serves as they the only figure in general history apart from George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, and Marin Luther King whom they are capable of naming.

R21 It was interesting that Deborah Kerr was her natural successor and they starred in a movie together. Sadly they don't share any scenes together. Only the opening scene where they are part of a procession and walking together but you only see them in the background side by side.

[quote] When that HBO Max show "White Lotus" came out last year, one of the characters brings up Baby Jane as a pop culture reference.

R35 but for many viewers watching that scene at home, they might have to grab their phone and google "Baby Jane" to find out what that means. You know that, I know that, people on DL all know what that means, but DL is a "niche" site. Go out and ask strangers or maybe your (straight) coworkers and acquaintances, do they know who baby Jane was, or is there something funny about no wire hanger at home?

I guess then Queer Garson is out as a drag name.

[quote] Davis, Hepburn, Crawford, and Stanwyck all had distinct personas, voices, and/or mannerisms...

R23 Hepburn is remembered largely due to the fact she still holds the record for winning the best actress 4 times! Once Frances McDormand overtakes her, she will fade out fast!

Crawford is remembered due to the notoriety of Mommie Dearest, her life has became many culture references, one of them is her notorious feud with Bette Davis, it is the public interest in Crawford that also helped Davis and kept her name alive, for that Davis really should give Crawford a hug in heaven or hell.

I like Stanwyck but I find it odd to put her name along with the other 3, she is mostly forgotten.

Even today if younger people happen across Mrs. Miniver they love it. It is one of the classic films in American film history.

A lot of older actors are remembered because they were in that one big movie that people never forget, like Casablanca or Gilda, which is why you always see those posters hanging up as decor. Bette's poster for Jezebel also gets used a lot. Harlow was sexy and died young, same with Monroe, Orson Welles did those commercials and kids' shows and movies, Cary Grant and Jimmy Stewart had Hitchcock films later in their career which keeps them popular, etc.

It's been almost 25 years since the AFI 100 Years 100 Stars list and I'd say some of those top names are becoming forgotten, like Fonda and Cooper. Henry would be completely forgotten if it weren't for Jane and Peter.

Mommie Dearest ironically helped Joan's legacy tremendously. She wouldn't be as well-known today without it.

R43 I don't think Joan would mind the reputation either (which has mostly been salvaged the last few years anyway between Feud, TCM, and film critics in general who have reanalyzed her work). Barbara Stanwyck said Joan would have been more upset about her sexual relationships with other women being outed than being labeled a child abuser.

[quote] It's been almost 25 years since the AFI 100 Years 100 Stars list and I'd say some of those top names are becoming forgotten, like Fonda and Cooper. Henry would be completely forgotten if it weren't for Jane and Peter.

I only knew about Henry Fonda growing up because of Jane Fonda (the same way I only knew about the Barrymores because of Drew Barrymore). I had no idea who Gary Cooper and when I first heard about him, I thought he was a knockoff Cary Grant or Clark Gable who couldn't even get the CG initials in the right order.

[quote] I like Stanwyck but I find it odd to put her name along with the other 3, she is mostly forgotten.

She's another one I didn't know about growing up. I knew Crawford for Mommie Dearest and Davis for All About Eve and Hepburn in general because of her status as the greatest actress and all those Oscars. But I had never heard of Stanwyck in my life. I was familiar with Double Indemnity though, but not the actress who played in it.

[quote] Hepburn is remembered largely due to the fact she still holds the record for winning the best actress 4 times! Once Frances McDormand overtakes her, she will fade out fast!

R40 It'll be bittersweet for Hepburn, considering she taunted Jane Fonda about never being able to catch up with her, but I'm sure she'll just be glad it wasn't Meryl. I know Hepburn's choice for natural successor was Glenn but poor Glenn doesn't even have one.

[quote] Crawford is remembered due to the notoriety of Mommie Dearest, her life has became many culture references, one of them is her notorious feud with Bette Davis, it is the public interest in Crawford that also helped Davis and kept her name alive, for that Davis really should give Crawford a hug in heaven or hell.

It always made me laugh that even Bette's stinker of a last movie, Wicked Stepmother, couldn't escape her connection with Joan. A picture of Joan is used to represent the protagonist's mother when Bette comes in as her new stepmother.

You people.

Who does Stanwyck, r23? Of the four you mention, Stanwyck doesn't really give an impersonator much to work with.

Pola at least has The Moon Spinners but except for a few older DLers nobody talks about Nita Naldi anymore.

[quote]Even today if younger people happen across Mrs. Miniver they love it. It is one of the classic films in American film history.

Bitch please.

R49 I only know Pola Negri because of The Moon-Spinners

I adore Greer Garson and her wonderful films. Of course, Mrs. Miniver, but also Goodbye Mr. Chips (with Robert Donat), Random Harvest (with Ronald Colman), Pride and Prejudice, Mrs. Parkington, That Forsythe Woman. A veritable goddess of the screen. Beautiful and totally engaging, relatable, lovable. And that wonderful voice!

Dod Pola Negri have a one-minute appearance in 'Sunset Boulevard"?

Ironically before Mommie Dearest, Crawford didn't give impersonators a lot to work with, unlike Davis, Hepburn, Tallulah and Mae West. You'll notice that her many impersonators today use quotes and scenes from the MD movie. They're really doing Faye doing Crawford.

Dod Pola Negri did not have an appearance in Sunset Boulevard nor anywhere else.

R52 considering you left out The Valley of Decision you know nothing about the woman's career.

Mario Cantone does a hilarious Barbara Stanwyck impression.

Because she was at MGM in the 40s and was cast as a star in respectable,well produced middle brow family dramas, historical bio pics, and literary adaptations that were popular with Louis B. Mayer, audiences of the time and Oscar voters? Good films some of them, but none that seem to have a style or cachet that make them timeless. Or even hip like film noir or pre code.

[quote] I wonder if the fact that Greer never had any high-profile movie in her later years also caused her to be forgotten.

Fuck you, R7!

True r58. The Classic Hollywood actresses who have been remembered and revered by later generations tend to be the fierce bitches who did movies where they played fierce bitches. Dietrich, Davis, Crawford, Stanwyck etc.

The Loretta Youngs, Greer Garsons, Norma Shearers and other "ladylike" stars from that era are pretty much forgotten.

R54 Joan herself said this. "Nobody can imitate me. You can always see impersonations of Katharine Hepburn and Marilyn Monroe. But not me. Because I've always drawn on myself only."

R60 Ingrid Bergman never played a fierce bitch but she's still remembered. Same with Olivia de Havilland and to a lesser extent, Joan Fontaine.

Oh, I slapped a bitch once or twice, R62. Ask Joan!

Why wasn't she ever on (old) Dynasty or Falcon Crest?

Greer had to settle for "Love Boat".

Why is Will Geer never spoken of in mixed company anymore?

Ingrid Bergman and Olivia de Haviland were in two of the most famous films of all time that are an indelible part of American culture. That's a big reason why they're still remembered.

But Joan's acting style is easy to imitate, r54.

How about Germaine Greer?

She's certainly no Jane Greer, r69.

R68 not so easy if you add the eyebrows...

She’s not forgotten at all. She gave one or more STDs to millions of men in the 40s and 50s. Her legacy lives on in the DNA of unsuspecting men and women who will begin seeing symptoms soon enough.

Garson was already in her mid-30s by the time she got to M-G-M in 1939, and though it seems absurd to see her playing characters who should be teenagers, such as Elizabeth Bennett in Pride & Prejudice (1940), the young Susie Parkington in Mr. Parkington (1944), and Mary Rafferty in Valleiy of Decision (1945), she does so with such charm that audiences were willing to suspend disbelief.

In Valley of Decision Garson was 40 something. Her co-star Gregory Peck was 20 something. They end up together at the end. It's unseemly. And this from LB Mayer!

Greer thought she was the shit but she wasn't "THE" shit, she was just another pile of shit.

Random Harvest has a kind of immortality in that in Catcher in the Rye Holden goes to see the movie at Radio City(It did indeed play there from December as the Christmas movie to March.) He spends some time describing the show and it is not flattering.

Maybe if Garson had done a topless scene like Kerr she would be better remembered.

This thread will end in greers.

Another very popular movie of her was Blossoms in the Dust which seems to be forgotten today. It tells the true story of someone who I thought would have been a feminist icon today but is as forgotten as the movie Edna Gladney. She was a children's rights activist early in the 20th Century and worked hard to remove the stigma of illegitimate children and unwed mothers. She continued her tireless activism throughout her life.

[quote]Another very popular movie of her was Blossoms in the Dust which seems to be forgotten today. It tells the true story of someone who I thought would have been a feminist icon today but is as forgotten as the movie Edna Gladney. She was a children's rights activist early in the 20th Century and worked hard to remove the stigma of illegitimate children and unwed mothers.

Yes indeed. Here is the clip that most people agree resulted in Greer's second Academy Award nomination for Best Actress:

R18, James Hilton's novel Random Harvest is structurally very different from the movie: it's told in flashback, first a flashback to the period when Charles returned home following his taxi accident in Liverpool, then flashing back even further to when he escaped from the asylum and met Paula; the reader is thus not aware of Mrs. Rainier's true identity until the closing pages. It's an excellent book, but I can see why they changed it for the movie -- how do you keep the actress playing Paula hidden from the viewer as Mrs. Rainier -- and she's very present before the reveal in the book -- without tipping the viewer to the climax?

I hate to break it to you, but most people don't know who Joan Crawford or Bette Davis are. When I went back to college in my 30s in the mid-00s, I would query my fellow students -- a decade to a decade and a half younger than me -- about stars and movies of the past: they didn't know Crawford, Mommie Dearest, Greta Garbo, Doctor Zhivago, and others. Only those who were interested in movies knew of them.

It basically comes down to what you're interested in: since I have less than zero interest in true-crime stories, I had no idea who Michael Peterson is until this new series, The Staircase, started up.

r82 people in their late teens/early twenties don't know much about anything before they were born. That's not really a great sample group.

My husbands grandparents were good friends with Greer, and her husband Buddy Fogelson. They even bought condos in the same building, and a ranch in New Mexico which was the popular thing to do in Dallas with the oil and cattle barons for some reason around that time. My mother in law knew her, and said she was a lovely lady. She also went to school with Joan Crawford's twins, and had cocktails with Doris Duke!

To the posters mentioning Barbara Stanwyck she is helped to be remembered because of The Big Valley which still airs regularly in reruns. I know that is how I was first introduced to her.

And Stanwyck also had The Thorn Birds in 1983 and then The Colbys in 1985-86.

Greer Garson Lives you fuckers!

Greer Garson is ALIVE to r87!!!

[quote]Davis, Hepburn, Crawford, and Stanwyck all had distinct personas, voices, and/or mannerisms. Anyone can do at least a bad impression of any of them and you'd recognize it.

I’ve never seen anyone do any kind of impression of Stanwyck or Garson.

"Nick! Heath! Jarrod! There's a fire in the barn!"

Mario Cantone's Stanwyck impression is very funny

Because she wasn't named in Vogue.

R62 I adore Ingrid Bergman but she was an indomitable bitch in 'The Visit'.

And an evolving nascent bitch in the TV version of 'Hedda Gabler'.

Hedda Gabler? Ingrid Bergman? Um, no. DL fave and Oscar two-timer Glenda Jackson was *the* movie/TV screen's best ever Hedda!

[quote] DL fave

The versatile Ingrid is much more deserving of that title than the one-note ranting Jackson.

I like Greer in the 1955 film Strange Lady in Town. Greer plays a "lady doctor" and cute Nick Adams has a bit role as Billy the Kid. Filmed in Old Tucson. Theme song by Frankie Laine!

R53 That was Anna Q. Nilsson in Sunset Blvd.

I admit I wouldn't want to appear in that cameo role as a half-dead retired star playing cards at Norma Desmond's house but I bet Anna Q. Nilsson was way down Wilder's list.

I've never heard of Anna Q. Nilsson. At least when Maximilian Schell did a similar scene in his movie he was able to get more interesting veteran actresses.

Get some talent and then mouth off.

Anna Q. Nilsson was eleven years older than Gloria.

When I was a young gay in Manhattan and had some older gentlemen friends they told me that Garson had been an even better Auntie Mame on Broadway than Russell.

r98 Possibly but keep in mind that the casting on that movie was not easy. Wilder had to settle for his leads. Clift was hired as Joe Gillis but then dropped out right before filming. Swanson was Wilder’s 5th or 6th choice for Norma after approaching Garbo, Pickford, Negri, Bow, and Shearer.

As far as the waxworks, I don’t see anything wrong with Nilsson. She was extremely famous at her peak. I expect the juxtaposition of her popularity in the 1920s compared to near anonymity by 1950 is precisely what attracted Wilder to casting her.

I found this interesting:

“In 1923, Nilsson was severely burned while filming a scene in which she drove a locomotive through a forest fire for Hearts Aflame; she required a week to recuperate, but that did not impede her career. That year, she made nine movies, including portraying "Cherry Malotte" in the second movie based upon Rex Beach's The Spoilers, a role that would be played in later versions by Betty Compson (1930), Marlene Dietrich (1942), and Anne Baxter (1955).

In 1926, she was named Hollywood's most popular woman. She welcomed royalty when the Swedish Crown Prince Gustav Adolf (later King Gustaf VI Adolf) and his wife Louise Mountbatten visited Hollywood. In 1928, she set a record for fan mail, some 30,000 letters per month, and in that year Joseph P. Kennedy brought her to his newly formed film company RKO Radio Pictures.”

How did they feel being called 'waxworks?'

Because she never learned how to roll with the punches!

"most people don't know who Joan Crawford or Bette Davis are"

You need to get out more often. PRONTO. You don't know what the hell you're talking about.

There's a breed of DataLounger that loves confronting others with how the old movie stars are forgotten, most people never heard of them, we're all eldergays lost in our memories of watching the late show on our grandparents' black-and-white tv.

Well guess what: most people wouldn't be able to find New York City on a map, let alone Finland or Peru, or tell you what years the Civil War was fought. "Most people" is fairly low standard.

Eldergay here. I don't know shit about the majority of silent film stars from the 1920s. That would take an Elder Eldergay. So I totally understand how younger people are clueless about, for example, the 1940s era film stars even though I may have more knowledge of that era (even though it still predates me). That's just how life works, kids. Almost everyone ends up forgotten. And whoever said that most younger people today don't know who the fuck Crawford or Davis are is totally correct. The people who take great offense to this are likely eldergays like myself and who had a great affinity for the old classic films. Your everyday person though, young or old, is not a movie buff to that extent.

Young people today barely know who Madonna is, you think they're going to know movie stars from the 40s?

Well when I was young we knew who the Marx Brothers were and May West and The Honeymooners and they were all a long time from when we were born. And they were not only known but they were cool.

r109 the Classic Hollywood period was MUCH closer in time when you were young. Today, it's nearly 100 years ago.

Also, there were only a handful of tv channels, no internet, and old movies were constantly being rerun back in those days. You had limited options for entertainment.

[quote] we knew who the Marx Brothers were and Mae West were

That's because there was revival of their films in the 1970s. But that revival has passed.

TV showed 1930s-1950s films in the 1970s to 1990s. But they're not shown at all noways unless you go to a specialised source.

[quote]Why is Greer Garson completely forgotten now?

Tell me about it...

That revival has passed because we were a more educated discerning bunch whose love of the new didn't preclude enjoying the great talents who came before.

^ I agree, R113

Mrs. Miniver might be her most iconic film but I liked her best in Random Harvest, Mrs. Parkington, and Desire Me. She's too old for Pride and Prejudice, but I enjoyed her in that role as well.

r113 those old movies are just archaic to most younger people today, and they're not shown as frequently as they were back then. Time moves on. An old black and white movie to a younger person today is just too remote in time and antiquated. These things happen.

[quote] those old movies are just archaic

They are antiques.

And I think I can generalise and say that most men in the first half of their lives think only of the present and the future. While most men in the second half of their lives think about the past, present and future.

When I used to go to the Regency there were many old men even older than I am now who had seen these films when they first came out as boys or young adults.

"An old black and white movie to a younger person today is just too remote in time and antiquated. These things happen."

Of course...when you have an abysmal or non-existent arts educational system in place and every aspect of our culture is dumbed-down and actually hostile to tradition and legacy and geared to the lowest common denominator,. and corporations sacrifice integrity for the bottom line, and the maw of mainstream culture consumes everything in its path and regurgitates it back up again and again and again.. Yes, that's when these things happen...and the culture we get is the culture we deserve.

Because it’s 100 years later, OP? And there were a bazillion old movie stars?

That Helen Twelvetrees was a stitch.

R112 Eleanor Parker lives every time someone watches "The Sound of Music" and sees how beautiful she was in it.

[quote] Of course...when you have an abysmal or non-existent arts educational system in place and every aspect of our culture is dumbed-down and actually hostile to tradition and legacy and geared to the lowest common denominator

How many baby boomers watched silent movies? Not just laurel and hardy, Buster Keaton or Charle Chaplin. What about all the dramatic silent movies? There were hundreds and hundreds of them. Boomers didn’t watch them because they were ridiculously out of fashion. The clothes, the hair, the makeup, the overacting, the pacing.

Same thing with 1930s and 1940s and 50s movies. Clothes, hair, theatrical acting, ancient technology like telegrams, lack of cellphones and computers. People can’t even imagine what it was like to grow up without social media, internet, television, cellphones. The vastness of rural America without a highway system, without air travel, without suburbia. Small American towns still existed when boomers were growing up not anymore. The experience of living in small town America pre-technology is alien to later generations. The illnesses people dealt with. Characters contracting smallpox, diphtheria, malaria, pneumonia, polio. Old slang. Tearjerkers. Laughable uptight morals. Casual racism.

Young people are farther removed from that then boomers were watching Mae West vamp in 1890s costumes.

Films from Hollywood’s Golden Age weren’t really golden. They captured the imagination of the so called Greatest Generation and of the small children watching them on a rainy Saturday afternoon in the 1960s. They are no more interesting to today’s young people than Penny Dreadfuls were to boomers.

"How many baby boomers watched silent movies? Not just laurel and hardy, Buster Keaton or Charle Chaplin. What about all the dramatic silent movies? There were hundreds and hundreds of them. Boomers didn’t watch them because they were ridiculously out of fashion. The clothes, the hair, the makeup, the overacting, the pacing."

What a ridiculous, not to mention, untrue argument. First off, how many silents were in a state of preservation that would allow them to be projected in a pre-digital age? Obviously, the classic and heavy-hitter filmmakers were given top priority. In addition, in the 1970s and well into the advent of the DVD player, you had revival film houses in every major city in the US. New York City alone had at least five as I remember. University campuses played all-night movie marathons of everything from Busby Berkeley to Anna May Wong. I know--I attended several in my college town. To say people didn't watch them because out of outmoded fashion is just plain foolish (you wanna see ridiculous outmoded fashions? Pick any movie from the pathetic 1980s). Who cared about dated fashion when you had emotionally overpowering films like WINGS, GREED, THE BIG PARADE, THE LAST COMMAND, THE LAST LAUGH, THE CABINET OF DR. CALIGARI, SUNRISE, M, THE BATTLESHIP POTEMKIN, Gance's NAPOLEON, THE PASSION OF JOAN OF ARC, THE CROWD, TOL'ABLE DAVID, the entire Chaplin and Keaton oeuvre...and those are just off the top of my head.

And your second paragraph only undermines your argument further: those are PRECISELY the reasons why it's urgent for younger generations to not dismiss our glorious film legacy--so they can learn from history, its manners and mores, and most important of all, the human condition, warts and all. They will learn absolutely nothing about themselves or the world around them with their noses continually buried in gadgetry and wasting their time and lives on idiotic, narcissistic social media.

In my experience, it came down to exposure at a young age to classic films by my parents. My dad (born in the late 20s) loved westerns and war films; my mom (born in the mid 30s) loved the films of Gregory Peck and Ingrid Bergman. So they shared those movies with me, which spurred my interest in classic movies.

I also remember one of the local stations would show Blondie and Abbott & Costello films every Sunday morning and I watched them religiously (appropriately, since we didn't go to church).

Now, in my 50s, when I search for a movie to watch via streaming, I tend to look for pre-21st century films, particularly pre-1970 films I haven't seen, to watch. The few times I'll watch a modern film is if it features actors I like or deals with a topic I'm interested in (gay men and/or historical). My favorite streaming service is ScreenPix (avail on Roku and Amazon Prime) -- they're cheap and they have a fantastic selection of previously hard-to-find classic and contemporary films, including a good selection of classic British films and B pictures, including some good Italian peplum films. Recently, I've watched Stevie (1978), Shout at the Devil (1976), Sword of the Conqueror (1961), and Bank Holiday (1938) on ScreenPix.

r119 old black and white movies just look OLD to younger people. That's really it. They don't want to sit through one. I can imagine if I were a 20 year-old today I wouldn't either.

[quote]And your second paragraph only undermines your argument further: those are PRECISELY the reasons why it's urgent for younger generations to not dismiss our glorious film legacy--so they can learn from history, its manners and mores, and most important of all, the human condition, warts and all.

There is WAY too much for young people to do today. Back in your day you watched old movies because a) the 30s and 40s were much closer in time, today those days are ancient history and b) there weren't many options. Only three tv channels, no internet, no video games, no gyms or gym culture, etc. Back then if you didn't like what was on the three tv channels you could only sit around and read the newspaper for so long before you went out to watch a movie because what else was there to do?

And I'm saying this as a Gen Xer who is also a fan of old movie but I realize our society has changed so much it's unbelievable. I'm only one generation removed from Millennials but I can't believe how different their formative years were from mine, and as a younger Xer my childhood was only a decade or so prior to theirs.

"There is WAY too much for young people to do today."

Of COURSE it is. Doing it the HARD (but more rewarding) way is always more difficult. So is thinking. That's why this tragically narcissistic, infantile generation would rather stream some stupid current abomination on their phones at home so they can order in pizza and eat in their boxer shorts rather then dress up and go to the theater. It's even worse for live theatre. The cretins arrive in their backwards turned baseball caps, wifebeaters, cargo shorts and crocs and proceed to slurp from their sippy cups throughout the show. What's next, diaper changing stations in the aisles?

Being an old movie enthusiast was considered peculiar or niche even back in the 70s, whether it was silent movies or movies from the 30s and 40s. You either have an affinity for things of the past or you don't. It's not about what else there is to do or whether things are "OLD". It's about where your interests lie. There was plenty of other things to do before everyone lived in social media.

[quote]That's why this tragically narcissistic, infantile generation would rather stream some stupid current abomination on their phones at home

And 50 years ago Boomers would rather have listened to the Rolling Stones or Led Zeppelin than Rudy Vallee or Jo Stafford. It's all relative. Time moves on, each generation likes artists of their own generation.

Hell, kids today aren't even listening to Madonna because she's ancient to them. Just like the Andrews Sisters were ancient to Boomers.

[quote]would rather stream some stupid current abomination on their phones at home

You clearly know nothing about modern music. There's some really good stuff out there if you know where to look.

I definitely have an 'affinity for things of the past' but I can't bear watching silent movies because of the film speed and the slow plotting. The title cards are too slow and 'mime-acting' is SO primitive.

[quote]so they can order in pizza and eat in their boxer shorts

Yeah NOBODY did this in the 70s 😂

That's unfortunate that you'll never see City Lights or Sunrise or Pandora's Box, R132.

The thing about silent films is that by the mid-to-late 1920s, filmmakers were creating some of the most visually dazzling films of all time -- Sunrise, The Crowd, The Big Parade, etc. Then the development of sound, which required the camera to be practically still, in a huge box, brought that all to a halt. Some of the early sound films are practically unwatchable due to the lack of camera movement.

In the 1970s young straight people were flocking in droves to revival houses to watch old Katharine Hepburn and Bette Davis movies from the 1930s. Okay. Whatever.

Being an old move buff is something that has primarily been a niche audience of gay men, whether it's in 2022 or it was in 1972.

I'm interested in movie star biographies and I've read in several of them that Bette Davis did a one-woman show of clips from her movies and then she had a Q&A session with the audience. She did this throughout the 70s, all over the US. The audience for these shows were overwhelmingly gay men and Davis privately wondered why there were so many "fairies" in the audience, instead of straight people.

I was born in 1986 and ever since I was at least 10 I became fascinated by old Hollywood. I would spend hours in the library looking up movie stars and classic films. And yes, I was a bit of a loner. I don’t expect every gay man my age or younger having the same fascination their whole life since that age.

However, I’m still surprised how many younger gays (and people in general) aren’t even aware of people from that era or even people who peaked in the 60’s or 70’s. I’m guessing that young people in the 1980’s may not all have seen Citizen Kane but they knew who fucking Orson Welles was.

I saw Davis at a couple of those shows, R132, when I was 14. She didn't wonder about her gay following at all and directly responded to it when it was discussed as a topic in the Q & A, basically said that she took it as a compliment because all of her life she'd known gay people to be among the most knowledgeable and discriminating in the arts. There was even a clip from Dark Victory with her line "Give them champagne and be gay. Be very, very gay", which got a spontaneous round of applause both times. She knew her audience.

R137, that is.

r139 Davis made the "fairies" comments privately, she never would've said such a thing publicly.

I doubt it, R141. Who claims she said that?

It's in various sources r142.

Mmmhmm, "many people say"....

Mmm, sozzled Datalounge eldergays say…

I wouldn't be surprised if she said that privately. A lot of people talked that way and still do.

Revival houses in the 70s used to get a very mixed audience. I remember the crowds at the Regency when they were having their MGM summer festivals. They were people of all different ages and of both sexes. The Carnegie Hall Cinema as well. It wasn't just gay men going to North by Northwest and The Searchers.

Greer's Little Foxes is on YouTube and she plays the role very differently from Bette. Less icy, more sensual and fiery which is how Tallulah played it.

Is that Lois Smith as the young girl in the Lady Doctor scene with Greer Garson?

I downloaded The Little Foxes today to watch along with a TV version of The Awful Truth (co-starring a very miscast Bob Hope), The Incredible Mr. Disraeli (wonderful!) and a few other anthology series she appeared on. She's fun to watch, but I can see why she's not a top favorite among the legends. She can be camp, but it's not always the good kind of camp.

Her Regina isn’t at all bad. She’s bearable in Pride and Prejudice. Also, not bad with Our Joan in When Ladies Meet. Like Norma Shearer she’s very much a product of her own time with qualities that haven’t aged well.

[quote] she’s very much a product of her own time with qualities that haven’t aged well.

In other words, she did what was right for her in her own time.

She didn't bend over backwards and make a camp fool of herself to please the prancing loons who festered in the generations that followed hers.

From where did you download THE INCREDIBLE MR DISRAELI, r149 (I'm fascinated with him!). If you can't say, I'll understand.

R151 = Greer Garson

Being ahead of your time and daring as an actor is much more valuable than "doing what is right for the time," jesus christ. Bette is remembered because she took risks and pushed herself.

Here you go, R152. If you want to get the full impact, watch with Victoria Regina starring Julie Harris. Same director for both, George Schaefer, who also directed Greer in The Little Foxes and later directed several TV specials with Judith Anderson.

Will do, r154! And thank you, you're a mensch!

I realized that I got the title wrong in my original post about The Invincible (not Incredible) Mr. Disraeli. Hope that you haven't seen this so you can enjoy it as I did. It's better than the 1929 George Arliss film, but it's been a long time since I've seen that (about 10 yrs) so my recollection could be iffy.

No, I haven't seen INVINCIBLE, but I love George as "Dizzy" as well. Then again, I love Arliss in EVERYTHING.

R157 And he looks looks so much like Lin Manuel Miranda!

Arliss' H. is far more engaging and suspenseful and musical in its own right than anything from that other quarter.

R154 That primitive tv show looks very cheap.

I remember her nostrils more than anything else. And while not ugly, she wasn’t very photogenic.

Tempus fugit, OP.

She is not!

I always thought it was rather odd for her to show up playing herself in a 1957 episode of "Father Knows Best." Even odder was the plot that involved the youngest daughter ("Kitten") being obsessed with her. I grew up in that era (I'm about 7 years younger than "Kitten"), and trust me -- NO ONE of that age had even heard of Greer Garson at that point in their lives.

[quote] Ingrid Bergman never played a fierce bitch but she's still remembered. Same with Olivia de Havilland and to a lesser extent, Joan Fontaine.

Olivia played a bitch in Hush Hush Sweet Charlotte and Joan played a bitch in Born to be Bad, but neither role was fierce enough for them to be let into the Bitches Immortality Pantheon.

R29 you actually believe that crock of shit r28?

What about Joan Blondell?

J’ADORE The Happiest Millionaire!

The fraus looked great in those long, slim dresses and big hats.

They even made Geraldine Page look sexy! How in the name of God is that possible?

Shes the narrator for The Little Drummer Boy...millions watch it every year

R151, Exactly. In other words, she was a prudish, uptight snob.

The old hag married the actor who played her SON in Mrs. Miniver, and then he grew a mustache to look older.

She narrated The Little Drummer Boy.

The special scared the shit out of my when I was a kid.

Kid loses his parents in a fire. He has a couple of pets; two perverts stalk him; they kidnap his animals, I think?

THEN, one of the animals almost DIES; the kid plays his drum for Jesus and Jesus brings the pet (a lamb, I think) back to life.

JESUS! BRING THE PARENTS BACK!!!!

thank you R164.... gayest TV episode ever

R164, well, she showed up to play, I'll give her that.

And what's with 'Guest Star' Greer Garson; it should be SPECIAL GUEST STAR!

Special guest star…. Gloria Gibson!

Wonder if Greer liked to watch Walter Pidgeon go down on her hubby?

R171 The studio had to age her down and age him up for the public to accept their relationship.

Leonard Maltin said this about Greer, “She has poise but no grace and Walter Pidgeon brought out the worst in her.”. Ouch.

I just looked up Richard Ney and he's Minka Kelly's grandfather.

Greer came across as a cunt. Just a dislikable person. Snooty. The only place you'll see her is on TCM, easy enough to change the channel when one of her movies comes on.

[quote]And whoever said that most younger people today don't know who the fuck Crawford or Davis are is totally correct.

That's not true because of the TV series "Feud", which was promoted on the late night talk show circuit.

R59, R77, R87, R107, R166, R167, R180 = Foul mouths.

Miss Garson would not approve.

Because people die.

"As long as there's one person on earth who remembers you, it isn't over."

You keep telling yourself that, Brendad.