Americans are mad over potential student loan forgiveness: "It's a slap in the face"

Louise Seamster, a sociologist at the University of Iowa, told Yahoo Finance that the group pushing back against cancellation is not a large one and asked them to put themselves in student debtors' shoes.

"As a sociologist, my work involves teaching students to consider how their own experiences are shaped by larger forces," Seamster said in an email to Yahoo Finance. "As such, I would encourage people who have been lucky enough to pay down their debt to reflect on what factors allowed them to pay down their debt: maybe attending school when public education was actually affordable; the support of a partner or family; or graduating into a favorable economy."

She added that critics "might have made career choices that prioritized income, but I hope they think what our society would look like if everyone had made those same choices and who would be educating their children or providing them medical care."

Some studies have shown that women and people of color take on more debt to go to college compared to their white male peers. Rep. Ayanna Pressley (D-MA) has repeatedly argued that student loan forgiveness is "a matter of racial and economic justice" given the disproportionate burden on borrowers of color.

"Canceling student debt is one of the most powerful ways to address racial and economic equity issues," a recent letter from prominent Democrats, including Pressley, asserted to the president. "The student loan system mirrors many of the inequalities that plague American society and widens the racial wealth gap. Black students in particular borrow more to attend college, borrow more often while they are in school, and have a harder time paying their debt off than their white peers."

Seamster added that if Americans still feel like cancellation of debt is unfair, "I invite them to join the movement for free college to make the same public higher education benefits available to all and make student debt itself unnecessary."

Bach said he doubted that forgiving debt would help the economy, and that it was an opportunity for Democrats to gain clout with voters.

"I don't think there is any evidence that this is going to help with the U.S. economy or student debt holders," he said. "This is simply a Hail Mary for President Biden who has just hit a 40% approval rating with the younger population."

The political benefit seems to be one thing both sides agree on: In a recent interview with Yahoo Finance, Pressley stated that "Democrats win when we deliver, and we have to deliver in ways that are impactful, tangible and transformative, like canceling student debt. This is good policy. And it is also good politics."

Rightfully so. The American tax player shouldn’t be expected to subsidize your worthless Art History degree.

I agree, whole heartedly.

As someone who went into debt for a decade, having to pay back my student loans, I say fuck these assholes calling to have their debt wiped out.

If you didn't want the debt, you shouldn't have taken out the loan. PERIOD.

I swear to god, these fucking GenZ's always want something for nothing.

And the sad part is that we're giving it to them.

Hopefully he won’t be able to get it passed.

These snippy cunts and cunt off.

With food, housing, and transportation costs at historically affordable levels, it's time to prioritize forgiving the debt of college graduates. That's where assistance is needed now.

Total bullshit.

Nancy Pelosi said Biden does not have the power to cancel student debt

Fuck you, Pelosi, you fucking cunt.

I actually agree and I think the biggest issue is college tuitions have become increasingly expensive just to be expensive. So why do taxpayers have to pay off your fancy ass degree?

[quote] With food, housing, and transportation costs at historically affordable levels, it's time to prioritize forgiving the debt of college graduates. That's where assistance is needed now.

Thanks for the laugh, R6.

#teamnancy @R8.

Fuck these little cunts looking for a handout of my taxpayer dollars.

Student loans should only be given to those getting STEM degrees.

They should cancel the student debt of people who are willing to work X many years in public service jobs.

What about rentboy debt? Is there a forgivness plan?

LOL, pacifists had to fund our endless wars in Afghanistan and Iraq

People who don't have kids fund our schools

The only people who are "mad" about this are stupid ass rednecks

I'm actually all for helping struggling graduates. One of the issues that's not readily apparent nor discussed is the extent to which Americans are getting financially poorer with each passing year. And with skyrocketing schooling costs, and post-graduate pay not keeping up with inflation, fewer dollars are going into the economy, which is really what the whole student loan amelioration platform is attempting to remedy. This has been a huge topic on the radar for a couple decades now, it didn't just start with Biden. The Fed doesn't care about whether student X will have enough money to buy clothes or food, but they do care about millions of people who won't be putting money into the economy due to payment on aggressive loans which could be a major disruptive force economically speaking. And the student debt crisis is already that severe. Many economists have stated that federal student loans really are becoming almost impossible to pay back in full, even for highly successful graduates. While the student loan fiasco isn't the only financial burden that could be helped federally, it is one of the more direct ways to lift the financial burden off a huge group of people who would likely to become major spenders in later years. With that said I think there needs to be a collective remedy between both the fed and state governments, the academic institutions, and the borrowers themselves as opposed to a solution funded by tax-payer dollars. We also need to do away with designer degrees from ridiculously expensive schools.

[quote] One of the issues that's not readily apparent nor discussed is the extent to which Americans are getting financially poorer with each passing year.

It is quite apparent and will be discussed a LOT between now and November

Ignorant cunts complaining about art history degrees, were you equally outraged about the past 40 years of economic policy? Education being defunded and the burden passed to 18-year-olds, tax giveaways to corporations and the wealthy, protection of inherited wealth, raiding of pensions, destruction of unions, offshoring of jobs, American healthcare turning human beings into ATMs for insurance and pharmaceutical companies?

Because all of those things Boomers oversaw are coming home to roost now. If you didn't do anything then, don't complain now.

America is an economic hell for most of its citizens. Anything not from the ‘trickle down’ school of thought is ‘socialism’.

What a joke. The majority is so worried about what is ‘theirs’ that they fuck over anyone else. Greedy cunts.

[quote]"How can we honestly ask people who did not go to college to subsidize the lives of those who did decide to go to college?" Bach added.

They already are. Student loans come from the government. The government isn't making a profit off the loans at this point (they haven't since the Obama administration) and the taxpayer is already shouldering some of that burden.

Anyone angry at the housing industry for loaning to people who didn't have great credit should ALSO be mad at the government for loaning to kids who were 18 years old and still in high school when they signed the paperwork.

Republicans be all like:

STUDENT LOANS: You took out the loan, you have to pay it off you freeloading bum! Not with my precious tax dollars!!! No more "free stuff!"

TRUMP'S MULTIPLE BANKRUPTCIES: He's a smart businessman!

*Lesson learned: Tax dollars are perfectly suitable for bailing out the wealthy (who avoids taxes) but certainly not for the working shmo (who pays taxes).

I’m not American so maybe am not placed to judge, but I don’t understand why Biden is pursuing this when basically everything else has gone to shit. Surely there are far more pressing problems that need dealt with?

What about mortgages? Car loans to get to work?

More to the topic: I saw this largesse to the debt-laden "haves" when I worked in public education. The "grasshopper" families in the surrounding McMansions got the high school scholarships for their kids to attend private $$$ universities (I was on the faculty scholarship committee) because they "needed the money";

Whereas the thrifty "ant" families living in the tiny Cape Cod houses in the district's town got zip for their State-school seniors, because they were savers with little to no debt.

My arguments that the rich students could likewise go to State universities or even begin at the community college fell on the proverbial deaf ears.

Now here we are, with a Democratic Administration about to simply wipe out debt for no rational reason other than....hoped-for votes.

Were the loans illegally usurious? Were the loans for scam institutions like Trump U? Were the loans acquired under duress? Were the loans acquired despite the student's family's having the wherewithal in savings or capital gains?

This entire boondoggle also ignores completely those who, not wanting debt, went to work or into the military.

Trust me; this is the camel's nose under the tent of "slavery reparations."

R22, one of his first speeches included transgender people and their issues. That’s when I regretted voting for him. With all the shit the country had gone through, with Trump practically refusing to accept he was president and the January insurrection, trannies!? Yeah I’m done.

I think we should subsidize the trades and STEM only. Anyone pursuing social sciences and liberal arts is on their own unless they can earn a scholarship. Let the best and the brightest compete for a free ride in those fields of study.

What they should do instead is find a means to make college education more affordable.

[quote]one of his first speeches included transgender people and their issues. That’s when I regretted voting for him.

Sure, Jan.

That's happening already, R13. In small numbers, but they have already started making it easier to qualify.

"Biden gave a speech on Transgender Day three months after he was elected, which is why I regret voting for him and will vote only Republican from now on. I am very smart and down to only two cups of lead paint chips for breakfast every morning!"

I don’t understand how anyone can be talking about canceling student loans when they are still being issued. Fix the source of the problem first, then deal with the consequences.

A lot of people complain that education is too expensive is the US, and it is. But in the UK and Europe not everyone gets to go. So there is a trade off. A good compromise would be to force the schools to bear a significant percentage of the cost and risk of student loans and to expand community college systems so that they are more easily accessible to a larger population of Americans. Now that online is often an option, this should be easier. Also, maybe find some way to penalize private schools that won’t accept transfers from community colleges. And maybe, just maybe, force employers to justify why a four-year degree is required for some roles. Give potential employees a different option for demonstrating they have knowledge and skills. Like a fucking Coursera certificate. Make HR do some work.

I’m not opposed to *some* debt relief for people who made stupid choices, but do something to reduce the number of people making the stupid choices first.

I have children and they went to community college and served in the military before going on to the kind of “top” schools that their HS classmates would have killed to get into. I don’t understand why my kids and I should now have to subsidize people who didn’t make prudent choices or serve their country.

[quote]I have children and they went to community college and served in the military before going on to the kind of “top” schools that their HS classmates would have killed to get into. I don’t understand why my kids and I should now have to subsidize people who didn’t make prudent choices or serve their country.

I'm glad that Datalounge is here for the under-represented straight Republican woman demographic. Finally, their voices will be heard!

R30s children are Pompeo and DeSantis and Tom Cotton.

Do people not understand that the student loan debt has a wall street interface? Just like home mortgages did?

I have a nagging suspicion that some of the people in my life who would benefit the most from forgiveness will see the slate being wiped clean as an opportunity to start anew... by resuming academic pursuits they will again discard without finishing.

We still owe low six figures and expect to be excluded from forgiveness due to my spouse's profession, income and "elite" education. It doesn't stop us from wanting forgiveness for those who are struggling. But without a plan for limiting future damages, a wave of the magic wand will only help them so much. Forgiveness must go hand-in-hand with sweeping reform.

Not remotely mad here. 68 years old here, went to a state uni for undergrad for almost no cost, got my masters from Purdue on a full scholarship.

NO ONE should be expected to start a career with the burden of a crippling amount of debt. Other than healthcare, food and housing assistance I can think of few better uses for my taxes.

[quote]And with skyrocketing schooling costs, and post-graduate pay not keeping up with inflation, fewer dollars are going into the economy, which is really what the whole student loan amelioration platform is attempting to remedy.

If that's the aim, a lot more dollars would be released into the economy if we forgave mortgage loans, instead.

As much as I would absolutely love for my student debt to be canceled, I don't think it should be done, either. At the end of the day, I'm the one who sat my ass down in that financial aid office, filled out that FAFSA and signed the master promissory note that clearly explained I had to pay all of this bullshit back. There are many things I could've done to help reduce the amount while I was in school such as paying on them while I was attending. Did my dumbass do that? NOPE. I fucked up. I have to deal with it. And so does my credit. -_-

GET OFF MY LAWN

[quote] LOL, pacifists had to fund our endless wars in Afghanistan and Iraq

That was wrong, too.

[quote]People who don't have kids fund our schools

The kids of today are the leaders of the future who will decide the fate of your healthcare, housing, and social security. A robust and high quality education system is needed to ensure they don't fuck that up.

I paid off my student loans. I went to a public university but it was when tuition was considered reasonable. It was still the highest in-state tuition in the country and a stretch for my family. I didn’t get any scholarships although my grades were good enough, but I did see them go to the kids who had worse grades but bigger, much nicer houses (one even had an in-ground swimming pool which was unheard of—small town—especially in that climate). When I graduated, the debt looked enormous to me but I lived in a studio apartment, had no car, ate a lot of broccoli and rice meals, shopped at Goodwill, yadda yadda and paid it off as fast as I could because to have that debt hanging over my head was intolerable.

BUT that’s not possible any more. I’ve read the horror stories about paying off their debt for years and it’s only paying off the interest, not the actual loan. With employers requiring degrees for even the most basic entry level jobs (it shows you can do the work!!), kids are forced into the grind. Meanwhile corporations are scooping up tax breaks and using every loophole to avoid taxes. WHEN MITT ROMNEY COMES OUT AGAINST LOAN FORGIVENESS!!! When a millionaire moron who grew up rich in an influential family is against it, then you know the opposite is true. Be better than a Republican.

"Loan forgiveness" should not be a thing.

FREE UNIVERSITY should be.

Let the Federal government use OUR trillions to educate those qualified to go on to Higher Education. Or even just those wanting to.

Let the Federal government pay for the exorbitantly expensive research done at major universities.

Let the Federal government pay college and university salaries.

Reduce the payments to Big-Time coaches.

FREE UNIVERSITY TUITION would level the educational playing field down to its purported essence. "Legacy" admissions would no longer exist. Wealthy would have no advantage other than maybe room and board.

Boo-hoo.

I paid my student loans off, but I'd rather pay for people to get an education than Medicaid for some stupid meth addicted frau who pushed out another worthless bastard. At least the kids going to college are bettering themselves and society.

Eliminate the caste employment system at most universities. When you have tenured professors doing relatively little work and commanding huge salaries, it's recipe for disaster for those who have to pay the bill, i.e. students. Also, reduce bloated and unnecessary administrative staffs at these same schools.

Also, stop building spa-like gymnasiums and luxury apartment dormitories.

Americans are mad about everything. We're a nation of assholes.

[quote]At least the kids going to college are bettering themselves and society.

Yes. That's typically what one does with a Gender Studies degree.

We must go along with AOC.

[quote]Anyone angry at the housing industry for loaning to people who didn't have great credit should ALSO be mad at the government for loaning to kids who were 18 years old and still in high school when they signed the paperwork.

I agree with you but those kids are/were probably 17.

There's no minimum age requirement for federal loans.

You don't need a cosigner unless it's a private loan, in which case, you also need to be 18.

The only ones who are mad are Republican politicians and their trolls.

,,,,,,

Well, this would be the week to do it. The news would be a blip overshadowed by much larger things.

Republicans would briefly pretend to give a shit about people that didn't go to college, but nobody would really believe them and it would soon all blow over as a national trauma.

[quote]with a Democratic Administration about to simply wipe out debt for no rational reason other than....hoped-for votes.

I'm fine with that. What, no Republican administration has done something to buy votes? Does the name George W. Bush ring a bell?

I agree that forgiveness will only help this cohort of folks and not future students, so we need both some forgiveness and then sweeping reform in terms of college loans and college funding.

I have no problem paying some for my education, but my loans began accruing 6.5% interest while I was in school and unable to pay. When I signed my first form and saw the interest rate, I knew nothing about how interest compounds and thought interest was a flat rate on the amount of the loan (ie on a 10k loan, you pay a total of 10,650) and no one told me otherwise until they actually started putting examples of the numbers in the loan paperwork (didn’t do this until much more recently). Even better, when I was doing an underpaid postdoc and couldn’t even afford rent, my student loans ballooned with interest and I wasn’t allowed a deferment (with zero interest accrual) because I made “too much money!” Educational loans are a HUGE racket and are unique in that you can’t discharge them in bankruptcy—only death. Who set up these RIDICULOUS loan terms that would ensure crippling debt?

Why aren’t educational loans zero interest? Just pay back what you took out. Not sure why we need to punish low SES students who need additional support with insane interest rates and interest that compounds when unable to pay it back while in school.

Some major corporate interests had a hand in writing student loan terms.

DL is 4chan im convinced a bunch of sad lonely pathetics

Does becoming an Eldergay mean you automatically become a small-minded, selfish old prick? Seriously, what's wrong with you people?

On thread after thread, all over DL, you're nothing but a band of selfish, racist, right-wing assholes with nothing but bile for anyone other than yourselves.

Is this what you wanted out of life? Did you old queens really survive bigots, buffets, and the AIDS Crisis to turn into this in your golden years? You've got yours, so fuck everyone else and anyone who might be different!

[quote] with a Democratic Administration about to simply wipe out debt for no rational reason other than....hoped-for votes.

Which he lacks the authority to even do or so said Pelosi. Just more bait and switch

College is cheap in Europe because there are no private universities and very few people go to college and the bar to qualify to go to college is much higher. The US needs more trade schools and agreements between the government and private companies to train apprentices - plumbers, electricians, carpenters, etc. will earn more money than your psychology major working as a barista.

In Europe there are also a very limited number of subjects you can study: no self-indulgent fields of study with no conceivable outlet in the professional world.

R56 I like this model. In the US, you USED to be able to get apprenticeships (paid) in many trades and hands-on jobs like plumbing, etc. Now you have to pay to be trained and the certifications are so specialized in the US that you can’t get your foot in the door without several years of experience. I recently looked at some of the crafts/tradesperson jobs online available in my area and the required training took years plus another few years of unpaid internships before you are seen as a desirable candidate.

The US threw out the model of paid apprenticeships in most trades when people/companies realized they could make a buck off of trainings AND not pay workers in training.

What is good about apprenticeships in Europe is non-academic kids leave school at 15, then continue studying half-time (practical subjects), working half-time to earn their apprenticeship credentials - for 4 years. During this time, they are paid a modest salary. The vast majority live with their parents as housing is so expensive in Europe. Once they've qualified in their trade, they immediately have a decently-paid job.

[quote]The US threw out the model of paid apprenticeships in most trades when people/companies realized they could make a buck off of trainings AND not pay workers in training.

Construction companies in my area have been hiring students while they're in trade school and giving them (paid) on the job training for at least five years now because they're desperate for labor.

I have high unpaid student debt and I understand almost every comment here. But I was stupid and scared, and I understand how that can happen. What about this idea: Students have to work for the government for a year to pay back their loans. Almost everybody would have to do it. Before college, after college, whatever. But it would be in a set up situation, and you'd still live in a dorm and be taken care of. It's just that you would work as a teacher or something else that was needed. Because honestly, that's part of what college is about. Getting away from your family and having a place to live. Socializing with peers and not being judged by your family. Right? And that's okay. We have to recognize that.

In Texas, all the houses in the building boom were built by Mexicans. A builder told me there aren't any carpenters, masons, tile workers, plumbers, etc. who are qualified in the US. It's all Mexicans - legal or illegal.

r52, I was an insurance broker and Sallie Mae refused to let me pay a lower amount because I "made too much money," which was like $37K a year. They had a whole slew of excuses for years, I eventually had the government ombudsman just flat-out tell me that I wasn't going to get anywhere with Navient (formerly Sallie Mae) and they helped me move my loans to another company.

It turns out that companies like Sallie Mae were refusing to put people on repayment plans when the government had told them to, they were telling people to get forbearances or deferments because they made more money that way, so now Biden's administration has recently announced they're doing a program where they will automatically check everyone's loans for unnecessary deferments et al. and issue refunds or even forgiveness.

R60 - You want the taxpayers to foot the bill for you to get away from your family, socialize with peers and not be judged? On what planet are you living?

During the Democratic primary, while Liz Warren was promoting cancelling all student debt thinking that would deliver her the nomination, Beto O'Rourke had a plan to cancel debt through public service. He brought up the fact the VA had 40,000 openings they couldn't fill. And if people were willing to work at the VA - or in other public service jobs which notoriously pay poorly for a couple of years, they could not only cancel their student debt but have practical work experience which most grads don't have on their resumes. Sounded reasonable to me.

R64, yes, but make it easy for these people. When you call to ask about repayment options for your student loans, they should transfer you to someone who could talk to you about openings at the VA. Okay, you got a degree in gender studies, let's find you a match with a position at the VA. Let's then give you some locations where you could work in that position. Then let's talk about housing options near that place of work.

Sometimes people just need someone to help them. It could totally work.

The US spends 700 BILLION DOLLARS a year on the military. Students should not have to go into a lifetime of debt in order to gain a college education. We have misplaced priorities.

People come up with all of these stupid justifications for their anger about student loan forgiveness. They are angry because it won't personally benefit them, plain and simple. If it benefited them. They would support it. Americans behave like petulant 5 yr olds. Student loan debt is just one problem on a long list of problems that the government should solve. The expectation that government should only solve the problems that personally affect you is ridiculous.

[quote] College is cheap in Europe because there are no private universities and very few people go to college and the bar to qualify to go to college is much higher. The US needs more trade schools and agreements between the government and private companies to train apprentices - plumbers, electricians, carpenters, etc. will earn more money than your psychology major working as a barista.

We have community colleges. Which trade programs. Students also have to borrow money to pay for those. You're arguing that the government should pay private companies. Private companies should be able to once again get rich off of students.

[quote] Nancy Pelosi said Biden does not have the power to cancel student debt

Has Pelosi simply given up on the midterms? Or does she honestly believe, with the current rate of inflation, the "tell the story" plan is a winning strategy? Democrats should have been "telling the story" everyday for the past year. Rather than acting like they were afraid to take credit for their accomplishments. Then going out of their way to present everything as BIPARTISAN. Democrats refuse to define themselves. They refuse to take credit for their accomplishments. They act like their afraid to call Republicans out by name; which they should be doing all day everyday. Instead they go on TV and speak like an attorney defending a guilty client. Democrats have made Liz Cheney the hero and superstar of the Jan 6 committee. They don't praise anyone on that committee but one of the 2 Republicans. None of the shit they're doing to attract "independents" has worked. Yet their going to double down on it and just "tell the story."

R63, did you got to college? Grad school? Did you socialize? Maybe not. But I couldn't even date when living with my mother for periods during my 20's. She is much too judgemental. Heck, I would have dated a lot more if we had had cell phones back then, because I wouldn't have had to share my phone with my roommates. That is the reality for me, and I know it has to be the reality for others.

R65 it sounds kind of like the Peace Corps, but hopefully a bit more income and generous loan forgiveness for participating. I would support that. We could have a Civilian Core program for loan holders to do 2 years of service in some needed area in the VA or other government sector. I would’ve gladly done that after graduating if I’d been able to write off my loans after that.

For 1 year, R60? Lol no.

The only path I'd support for government loan forgiveness is if the person worked in a service position in a remote and understaffed area or traditionally underserved region for at least 10 years, during which time a large portion of that person's paycheck is automatically docked to help recoup some of the debt.

After 10 years in that position serving and living in those remote and underserved regions, then the student loan debt can wiped away by the government.

R69, I think they already have that (forgiveness if you work in needy place or job for ten years). That's too long. If it were just for a year or two, people would actually do it. The positions would be filled and the loans would be forgiven. I was so nice and sweet and understanding when I was 22. They would have loved me working with those old VA guys.

As a gay man, I pay for a lot of things that have nothing to do with me through my taxes.

My taxes go for roads in Texas, rural electrification, farm subsidies, let alone the child care deduction and the proposed child care subsidy.

But I benefit from living in a better world.

Forgive it all, I would rather live in a world where people are working for their careers rather than repaying loans.

[quote]What about this idea: Students have to work for the government for a year to pay back their loans. Almost everybody would have to do it. Before college, after college, whatever. But it would be in a set up situation, and you'd still live in a dorm and be taken care of. It's just that you would work as a teacher or something else that was needed.

LOL, what exactly do you think a recent grad, or undergrad, is qualified to do? You obviously have not worked with many, or had to hire and train them. Kids fresh out of college are fragile little green peas who need a lot of hand holding, coddling and training before they even begin to bring ANY return on investment. Outside of low skill service jobs, they really don't offer much. And for just one year of work, they certainly wouldn't add value anywhere near what it costs to educate them.

I think it'd be more prudent to find a way to stop a semester at school costing 50k (or whatever). My partner (ten years older) went to UCLA in the late 80s and he paid about 3k a semester. He never had to worry about much student debt because it was affordable.

As to the debt itself? Forgive interest only.

^Agree with this. What my parents paid for college today's parents could put on their credit cards.

Don't know about other public universities, but University of Texas Austin's tuition and books are free if your family earns less than $100K a year.

[quote] I think it'd be more prudent to find a way to stop a semester at school costing 50k (or whatever).

There are 2 problems:

1. The cost of higher education

2. The current debt being carried by students.

They both need to be addressed. Its not either or.

Again:

The US spends 700 BILLION DOLLARS a year on the military. Students should not have to go into a lifetime of debt in order to gain a college education. We have misplaced priorities.

People come up with all of these stupid justifications for their anger about student loan forgiveness. They are angry because it won't personally benefit them, plain and simple. If it benefited them. They would support it. Americans behave like petulant 5 yr olds. Student loan debt is just one problem on a long list of problems that the government should solve. The expectation that government should only solve the problems that personally affect you is ridiculous.

The requirement to have a college degree to obtain even entry level low skill jobs is also a major problem here. Yes, these people chose to take on the debt, but if you want a job other than doing manual labor or working in the service sector, you really have almost no choice but to go to college now. And increasingly even a college degree isn't enough—now you need a graduate degree too. It's a total scam and part of the reason colleges have gotten away with charging these outrageous tuitions.

It’s good for the economy. People need to spend more money and forgiving crushing debt will help

If you get a degree in STEM, you're gonna get a job. If you get a degree in Gender Studies, you won't.

[quote]It’s good for the economy. People need to spend more money and forgiving crushing debt will help

Forgiving mortgage loans and small business loans and car loans and credit card debt would also help.

R80 don't forget medical debt too!

[quote] Forgiving mortgage loans and small business loans and car loans and credit card debt would also help.

We're talking about federal student loans issued by the US Federal Government. Like the PPP small business loans that the government is forgiving.

Student loan forgiveness does not address the fundamental issues of skyrocketing costs, undergrad and graduate degrees that leave their recipients unemployable in their fields, and the scandalous compensation of a large percentage of college teachers who work as adjuncts and make poverty wages. Unless we can find solutions to these problems, forgiveness of student loan debts will only encourage an already failing and corrupt system. It's called MORAL HAZARD. If the Democrats do this, they will face a backlash of huge proportions and it will be deserved.

If you forgive student debt, how does that affect people going to college now or in the future? Nobody's clarified that.

Totally not upset about it.

[quote] Student loan forgiveness does not address the fundamental issues of skyrocketing costs, undergrad and graduate degrees that leave their recipients unemployable in their fields, and the scandalous compensation of a large percentage of college teachers who work as adjuncts and make poverty wages. Unless we can find solutions to these problems, forgiveness of student loan debts will only encourage an already failing and corrupt system. It's called MORAL HAZARD. If the Democrats do this, they will face a backlash of huge proportions and it will be deserved.

[quote] If you forgive student debt, how does that affect people going to college now or in the future? Nobody's clarified that.

[quote] There are 2 problems: 1. The cost of higher education 2. The current debt being carried by students. They both need to be addressed. Its not either or. Again: The US spends 700 BILLION DOLLARS a year on the military. Students should not have to go into a lifetime of debt in order to gain a college education. We have misplaced priorities. People come up with all of these stupid justifications for their anger about student loan forgiveness. They are angry because it won't personally benefit them, plain and simple. If it benefited them. They would support it. Americans behave like petulant 5 yr olds. Student loan debt is just one problem on a long list of problems that the government should solve. The expectation that government should only solve the problems that personally affect you is ridiculous.

I truly hate the pieces of shit who willingly agreed to pay back their student loan, come what may, but now try to get away with reneging on it and have their expensive education given to them for free. I don’t care how much you owe or what your life situation is. You have no one to blame but yourself.

Wipe the debt! We'll all be dead soon.

When Chasten was whining about Biden not paying off his student debt, I looked up his educational background and how did he acquire so much student debt. He got a bachelor's from U Wisconsin after a couple of years at some obscure Michigan college I'd never heard of. In theatre. Then he got a teaching certificate from C list DePaul U. How much student debt can he have? Though I have since read - on here - he has only actually worked for one school year as he prefers spending his time on Twitter. Chasten's not the best standard-bearer for cancelling student debt.

My nephew dropped out of a very competitive, expensive undergrad program during 2020. He didn't love it, got a couple of Cs and decided it wasn't for him and he didn't want to waste his parents money. He got a job in construction, is now a foreman after only two years and in the past year, while working full time, bought, renovated and flipped a house for a $48,000 profit which was about what one semester of the college he went to cost.

Boomers who paid $1000 or less per semester in the 60s and 70s are angry that the entitled millennials are getting a free giveaway.

Agreed R76.

For the current debt issue? My fix is to eliminate interest. No one loses money. But no one makes a killing either. The idiots who took the loans still have to pay back exactly what they borrowed, but not get fucked with thirty years of interest. Seems fair enough.

The fix of the higher education system seems fairly easy also: Cut all the administrative nonsense that I assume costs a fortune to run. One of those things you "know without knowing". We all know costs rise. But the inflation in higher education is comical at this point. And totally unnecessary. It's just graft now.

Actually, r91 (and r52) Boomers are the ones who financed their undergraduate and advanced degrees, including law and medical school, plus living expenses for however long they were in school for, and then once they started working defaulted, declared Ch 7 and never had any intention of paying any of it back. That's what led student loans to spiral out of control and then legislation was passed so that they could not be discharged in bankruptcy. So Boomers rigged the system, then broke it. A lot of them went to school to avoid the draft and just stayed in school.

I had my student loans forgiven about a month ago after 10 years in public service. It was an amazing feeling and I give credit to Biden for fixing that broken mess of a program and making it work the way it was intended to. I'm not opposed to broader student loan forgiveness for people not in public service, but based on income. or as suggested above, just eliminate the interest on these loans that keeps borrowers in debt forever.

I’m against canceling any amount of student debt, what we need instead is reform.

I do think for now eliminating some interest would be a good start but in moderation. These decisions have consequences that can negatively impact democratic races and the markets and will not just magically cause people to spend more disposable income.

this is classic lying for votes and then when they get re-elected they can't do it. classic.

[quote]If you get a degree in STEM, you're gonna get a job. If you get a degree in Gender Studies, you won't.

What do you mean? Trans Activists aren't in high demand?

Are Joe’s fillers wearing off? Or did he have a stroke? His face looks weird.

[quote]Unless we can find solutions to these problems, forgiveness of student loan debts will only encourage an already failing and corrupt system

We shouldn't solve ANY of the problem until we can solve ALL of the problem!!!! You tell 'em R83!

R60 Why do you think a year's work for the govt is worth anywhere near enough to pay for four years of college?

[quote] Student loans should only be given to those getting STEM degrees

Total bullshit, bro.

[quote]You've got yours, so fuck everyone else and anyone who might be different!

Well, no one gives a fuck about me but me, and no one is [bold]obligated[/bold] to give a fuck about me but me. So, yes. I look out for myself, because at the end of the day, no one else will and it's, honestly, not their job to do so. As long as we aren't directly harming one another with our actions, we don't owe each other anything but common courtesy and, perhaps the occasional 'hi' and 'bye.' I had to go through some objectively fucked up shit to figure that out.

There seem to be two types of people in this world: the ones who say "I had to pull myself up by my bootstraps and so should everyone else" and the kind who believe that as a society, we should cover basic things and take care of each other financially as it's needed.

I'd gladly pay higher taxes if it meant universal health care for all, and I'd gladly pay a little extra for everyone to not be burdened by debt that they shouldn't have accrued specifically for education in the first place. I want us to actually take care of each other as a nation and not leave corporations and corrupt politicians to make all of the rules for everyone and then flout the rules in front of us. I'm sick of the selfishness.

How about colleges and universities work on getting less expensive, delivering more value? All these tenured professorships and ambitious building projects bloating the cost.

Uh it’s the influx of obscenely-paid administrators and deans and VPs of diversity that are driving up costs. Tenured professorships are increasingly a thing of the past…

R105 Sure, that too.

R105 Most of those administrators are required for compliance with the maze of regulations imposed upon them by state and federal overseers.

Or they're in capital, grants, and planned giving, like me. Since states have been slashing their taxpayer funding for public universities, schools are having to dig deeper and deeper into other sources just to keep the lights on. Federal science grants, corporate sponsorships, rich pricks with deep pockets, etc. And it takes a small army of bureaucrats to juggle all this accounting and begging.

If Joe Biden announced a cure for cancer, there would still be people saying "Well, if I had to have chemo and radiation, so should everyone else."

R108 It's a sick country full of morons, assholes, and the morbidly obese.

Fuck 'em all!

R27, a simple google search tells you that it’s true. Sorry your short term memory is f’d up.

Naming butt-ugly transwoman Rachel Levine as the administration's proponent of, er, something or other, was ridiculous.

[quote]I want us to actually take care of each other as a nation

The only people who deserve to be taken care of to that degree are children, the elderly, and the disabled. Everyone else who is grown and able-bodied needs to get their shit together.

So many people died of cancer years ago because various treatments were unknown or unavailable. So, anyone who has cancer now doesn't deserve to live because of those who died from it in the past. It's not fair they should live. People died of cancer, so everyone in perpetuity should have to die of cancer. It's the only right thing to do.

What happens to those taking loans out now and in the next years? They need to fix the cost of Higher Education. In most other rich counties, most Higher Education has a nominal, low fee. It's 2K a year, at the highest, in Switzerland, for example. Usually lower. In Germany, it is FREE with an administrative fee of a few hundred, tops.

Not to mention that college students get LIVING STIPENDS from the government,

The flip side is, that universities select out people who aren't cutting it. So if you complete the correct obligatory education, you will get entry to some kind of university if not the top one, always, but then you will get thrown out if you can't cut it.

Not everyone is cut out for University success.

In USA - people think EVERYONE can and should "go to college" if they have the opportunity. But ALL public universities are overpriced. not to mention the SCANDAL of private university cost.

Do colleges still require two years of classes you have no interest in to pad the final bill? That's what pissed me off the most- paying for two years of classes I wasn't interested in and didn't need for my major. I should have gone to a junior college for those first two years.

R115 the concept of a liberal education is wasted on you. Your point is fine - it means you should have gone to a very technical college in Europe that does not force students to study the humanities.

If your 2 first years were so worthless, despite them not being in your "major" it might mean you went to a shitty school.

[quote]Do colleges still require two years of classes you have no interest in to pad the final bill?

R115, what people are supposed to do is take classes related to their majors even if they're not technically taking classes "within" their major yet.

My university required English courses but the courses were divided by college within the university. If you were an Engineer you took English for Engineers. In addition you'd take more math classes and other classes mentioned as being related to your major. I ended up in a bunch of theater and art classes since my major was technical but still creative. I took creative writing classes as well. None of them were required for my degree within my major but all of them did something to help with my major.

Kids could (as I did) also use those classes to work on my minor or prepare for a double major.

The point is: you just don't take any 'ole class you find.

this is classic lying for votes and then when they get re-elected they can't do it. classic.

Well Joe probably figures he has gotten away with it before without the media ever calling him on it

Gotta love the anti-trans obsessives pretending that Biden is against gays

More rightwing talking point horseshit. Loan forgiveness is widely popular.

Kamala separated herself from Biden's loan forgiveness statement

Vice President Kamala Harris reportedly backed out of appearing in a video with President Biden on student loan forgiveness, not wanting to become the public face of a matter on which the administration was unlikely to satisfy progressives.

In early April, Harris' office began collaborating with Biden's on a video promoting the extension of the student loan pause. Eventually Harris' office decided against doing the video, two White House officials told Politico.

Biden then released his own video announcing the extension of the student loan repayment pause and Harris put out a written statement announcing the move.

Biden released a video on April 6: 'I know folks were hit hard by this pandemic, and though we've come a long way in the last year we're still recovering from the economic crisis it caused. This continued pause will help Americans breathe a little easier,' he said. It is not clear if that was the video the Politico report was referring to.

Americans with federal student loan debt haven't had to pay back loans since March 2020 of the Trump administration due to COVID-19. The pause now runs through at least August 31.

The last time they'd extended the pause in December, both appeared in a video.

Harris as a presidential candidate campaigned on canceling up to $20,000 in student debt, and privately supports the move.

One White House source said Harris' office initially seemed eager to participate in the video but later became hesitant of becoming the public face on student loans, realizing that Biden was not going to cancel tens of thousands of student debt the way the progressive wing of his party had been pushing for.

US high school is insufficient to prepare people for a first-rate university which is why the first couple of years are basically the last couple of years that should have been in high school. Maybe if the US starts the widespread use of the baccaulaureat system, only people who are worth sending to college, go to college.

the government is forgiving the loan. Nothing is subsidized here. The government is not going to continue to the pay the student loan, what a completely absurdist statement. Also, we already bail out the banks, so no one should be crying for them either (banks just service the loans). No one loses anything here.

Also, the economy improves, so the non college people will do better, not worse. Also, this will benefit small business owners so there is that. Purchasing Power goes up and an expanded middle class. It is only a GOOD THING.

Forgiving student loans will free up income that can be spent on mortgages instead and keep the price of real estate healthy and rising.

Not if the boomers in the homes insist on staying put instead of moving to the retirement communities that they belong in, r124. There's a housing shortage, you know.

I had a professor who worked as a lawyer for the fed reserve and other banking institutions which led to a lengthy career in consumer/borrower-protection, which then resulted in many lawsuits against banks and other lenders. She also worked in creating a lot of the protective legislation that exists today which puts limitations on lenders and protects for borrowers from unfair lending practices. She was very open about how horrid the industry was and the ways in which it preys on students' fears, insecurities and desperation, students who are simply looking for a leg up in the world where making a living is hard. And she worked for years challenging the duplicitous lending practices that these institutions used to dupe students into taking on thousands of dollars of debt. She was the one who impressed on me and other students the grifty nature of the student loan industry.

To those claiming students knew what they were getting into, that's true but also both cursory and intellectually dishonest. While the terms of the loan may have been listed out in great detail in a lengthy document given to students before signing, few people, professional lawyers included, have a comprehension level necessary to adequately understand the archaic and mind-numbing language used in those documents. They are purposefully made to be mentally daunting and exhausting to read to get a quick signature. School financial aid counselors and lender reps intentionally invoke a jovial mentality ("just take it so the money's there if you need it, and you'll just pay it back with your fancy job after graduation") that lulls borrowers into a false sense of security to facilitate a signature. It has been proven that lenders are indeed tricking students into signing these documents without a full disclosure to the student before they sign. This was rampant from the mid-90s and on, basically creating generations of workers enslaved to their loans. And it's going to become a major problem in a few decades.

Some on here have asked "why not credit cards or mortgages?" I don't necessarily understand that mechanics of the argument, but what was told to me is that problem with any kind of forgiveness of that type of debt is that there is actual collateral attached to the debt that can later be manipulated and could easily create a secondary market. If the government started paying off mortgages, it would create havoc in the real estate industry and send housing prices plummeting. Upon forgiveness of mortgages, homeowners could uproot themselves, flooding the market with homes and causing prices to plummet. Credit card debt is also distinguishable in the same way, in that it could potentially create another market when it comes to tangible goods. Further, high spending on credit is widely known as imprudent; student loans have generally been accepted as "good" debt up until a few years ago. The thing that makes discharging education a feasible option is that the education and degree the student obtains can't actually be exchanged post-relief, thus creating a secondary market that could muck things up economically. It's the student's solely and it can't be exchanged.

Fuck the gov't subsidizing cancer research!!!

My mom died of cancer 20 years ago, so all these people with cancer these days with the better treatments subsidized by the gov't putting their cancer in remission are assholes getting handouts from my tax dollars!!

They chose to smoke, eat poorly, live near a power plant or waste disposal site, live in proximity to a coal mine, work in a place with carcinogenic materials, breathe while in proximity to carcinogens, get carcinogens all up in their systems... their choice!

My mom died of cancer, so everyone who gets cancer should also die of it.

I don’t think people are necessarily in huge disagreement about this. Most people don’t mind the idea of some loan relief, both in principal and because it would be good for the economy and our society in the long run. And we may be going into a period where some economic stimulus is needed. They arguably overdid it during COVID, and that is contributing to inflation and rate-tightening now, but the cash giveaways may have averted a different, far worse, situation.

What people are horrified about is the casual way the idea of complete cancellation is thrown about. There should be a little bit of pain. It shouldn’t destroy your life. There was someone from a think tank on Bloomberg yesterday and she flat out said, “I’m telling everyone I know to take out as much student loan debt as you can because rates are still relatively low and you may or need to pay it back.”

Eliminating the interest is one way, but interest isn’t some “extra” that people aren’t obligated to pay back. Eliminating it is still a giveaway, it’s just a giveaway in a form that makes more sense than some others.

This has to be done in a way that doesn’t create incentives for people to make the same mistakes in the future.

[quote]What people are horrified about is the casual way the idea of complete cancellation is thrown about. There should be a little bit of pain. It shouldn’t destroy your life.

I don't know what to say to someone who thinks that people with student loans haven't already had more than "a little bit of pain."

I also don't know why Americans are so in love with the idea that debt should cause suffering.

Investment banks always get bailed out, because they do so much for society (thanks for the chaotic boom/bust nightmare that for some reason we are encouraged to entrust our retirement to). But individuals? Fuck em.

[quote]I had my student loans forgiven about a month ago after 10 years in public service. It was an amazing feeling and I give credit to Biden for fixing that broken mess of a program and making it work the way it was intended to.

You're lucky, people who hit their 10-year mark years ago didn't get their loans forgiven until recently when the Biden administration stepped in and fixed the problem. But what was it like for those people for several years, until the problem got fixed? I guess they had "a little pain" like some horrible people on this thread think they deserved, because they had debt.

I think a lot of people (myself included) are worried about being on things like the REPAYE plan and then, after 20 years, discovering they won't honor it, just like what happened to the people who did their 10 years of public service.

Yeah, you couldn't get the public service forgiveness unless you had the foresight to choose the income-driven repayment plan. IIRC something like 16,000 people had actually received that forgiveness before they started to make changes last year.

[quote]Loan forgiveness is widely popular.

Some form of loan forgiveness is widely popular -- but there's a wide variance on what that form should be.

Some 62% of voters support student loan forgiveness.

Those surveyed, however, had different ideas about how much debt should be forgiven — and for whom. Nearly 20% of voters said all student loan debt should be forgiven, while 15% said balances should be wiped clean only for lower-income Americans.

Another 16% said all Americans should have some of their education debt wiped away, while 12% said the same for those with the lowest incomes.

Nearly 30% said that student loan debt shouldn’t be forgiven at all.

That’s the same 30% who consistently voted for Trump in approval polls.

[quote]That’s the same 30% who consistently voted for Trump in approval polls.

The same 30% who hate "free stuff" except for Trump's multiple bankruptcies.

That's fine. Just cut me a check for the $100,000 I paid for college. And cut me a check for child tax credits and everything else I'm taxed on and don't reap any benefits from.

You want to see a 'slap in the face'?? How about I took out a loan for my son 12 years ago, for $28,000. I have been paying my monthly bill religiously since then and as of today my amount still owing is $24,000!! For a $290 a month payment this breaks down to appx $27 in principal and $260 in interest. Usurious, stinking graft in a nutshell. So don't tell me I should just shut up and pay, since I took out the loan.

[quote] To those claiming students knew what they were getting into, that's true but also both cursory and intellectually dishonest.

It’s dishonest to say people don’t know how loans work. To pay off a loan over time, with each payment you must pay all interest for the period plus a portion of the principal. If you fail to make scheduled payments on time, you will be penalized. It’s the failure to comply with these principles that have gotten people into trouble.

Anyone who bought a house and borrowed to do it also knows there are many pages for that that have to be signed and initialed at closing. Despite all the provisions and small print, it also boils down to pay what you agreed to pay and pay it on time.

r117 My major was history and then law school. For two years at the U of I I had to take a health class, a math class, a music class, etc. That was the olden days, so I was wondering if it changed. I had narrow choices that had nothing to do with what I was there for.

[quote]It’s dishonest to say people don’t know how loans work.

I think reality makes it quite clear that a whole lot of people don't know how loans work.

40% of those with student loans never finished their college degrees. They are saddled with huge debt but have the incomes of high school graduates.

So many for-profit colleges exist solely to get money from student loans and give a crappy education—scams, all of them

There are many on Social Security who are having their checks garnish to pay back student loans.

The prices of colleges have gotten out of hand. Even California’s state system costs $38,000 when you include room and board

I paid of $168 K in loans.

I am thrilled that there’s a chance others won’t have to face that craziness. I pro-loan forgiveness totally

[Quote] That's fine. Just cut me a check for the $100,000 I paid for college. And cut me a check for child tax credits and everything else I'm taxed on and don't reap any benefits from.

You reap benefits by having a good economy and not being a victim of crime constantky

[quote] It’s dishonest to say people don’t know how loans work. To pay off a loan over time, with each payment you must pay all interest for the period plus a portion of the principal. If you fail to make scheduled payments on time, you will be penalized. It’s the failure to comply with these principles that have gotten people into trouble. Anyone who bought a house and borrowed to do it also knows there are many pages for that that have to be signed and initialed at closing. Despite all the provisions and small print, it also boils down to pay what you agreed to pay and pay it on time.

Yes because 17 and 18 yr olds have also purchased homes and cars and experienced carrying tens of thousands of dollars in debt. They've worked in the real world and have experienced paying loans off.

[quote] What people are horrified about is the casual way the idea of complete cancellation is thrown about. There should be a little bit of pain. It shouldn’t destroy your life. There was someone from a think tank on Bloomberg yesterday and she flat out said, “I’m telling everyone I know to take out as much student loan debt as you can because rates are still relatively low and you may or need to pay it back.”

As a society, we should be focused on how we can improve the daily lives of average Americans. Our government and our elected officials should be focused on how they can improve the daily lives of average Americans, not how we can inflict "pain" on students for attempting to gain an education. Average Americans, however, spend all of their time, trying to punish their neighbors and prevent them from having more than they have. Americans would rather have less; than see their neighbors be equal to them or have more than them. While the majority of the nation fights over crumbs. The wealthy 1% is pushing all of the wealth to the top. The wealthy 1% controls our politics and our lives. Quality of life in this country continues to decline for average Americans. But thank God student loan borrowers felt "pain." Thank God average Americans didn't unite and fight to improve quality of life for everyone, because that would just be wrong.

[quote] You reap benefits by having a good economy and not being a victim of crime constantky

Then the people who properly paid on their students loans have provided the benefit of a “good” economy to the debtors and the debtors can use that benefit to pay back the full amount of their loan.

[quote] As a society, we should be focused on how we can improve the daily lives of average Americans.

We can do that and require that people pay back every dollar they took. It’s not an either/or situation.

Comparing student loans with home or car loans: with the latter, they set up monthly notes and tell you exactly when it will be payed back in full. For example, a 5 year loan for a car or a 30 year mortgage. Student loan debt can go on infinitely, even after death.

[quote]You reap benefits by having a good economy and not being a victim of crime constantly

Do we get a rebate when the economy is not good or we get mugged?

[quote] We can do that and require that people pay back every dollar they took. It’s not an either/or situation.

As a society, we should be focused on how we can improve the daily lives of average Americans. Our government and our elected officials should be focused on how they can improve the daily lives of average Americans, not how we can inflict "pain" on students for attempting to gain an education. Average Americans, however, spend all of their time, trying to punish their neighbors and prevent them from having more than they have. Americans would rather have less; than see their neighbors be equal to them or have more than them. While the majority of the nation fights over crumbs. The wealthy 1% is pushing all of the wealth to the top. The wealthy 1% controls our politics and our lives. Quality of life in this country continues to decline for average Americans. But thank God student loan borrowers felt "pain." Thank God average Americans didn't unite and fight to improve quality of life for everyone, because that would just be wrong.

Look at the visible plastic surgery in OP’s photo.

I'll say it again. Just remove the interest on these student loans and that will be enough to help people get their loans paid off.

I think they're more angry at you Republicunts in Democratic clothing.

And further to what I said previously, they need to apply all the interest people have already paid to the principal. Some people have been paying on these loans for decades. Applying all that interest to the principal would be a godsend to them. Might even wipe some of the loan balances off the books.

Maybe we could require people to pay additional principal on top of the payment they already owe. That way people can pay back everything they owe including the interest and pay off their loan more quickly. That seems like the fairest approach for everyone.

Students have been strangled by debt—it’s an absolute necessity to get a college degree so college charge what they want and people will still have to come.

It’s a monopoly

The whole concept of interest in a school loan is ridiculous, you end up paying many times more that you should for a necessity

Education should be available to all as well as health care, that will solve this mess. When the corporations and wealthy start getting taxed fairly we all win by investing back into our society.

[quote]When the corporations and wealthy start getting taxed fairly we all win by investing back into our society.

So, never?

[quote] You reap benefits by having a good economy and not being a victim of crime constantky

My 401k would disagree with you as would my hospital bill after a mugging. So fuck off.

[quote]I agree, whole heartedly.

You went to college?

[quote] So don't tell me I should just shut up and pay, [bold]since I took out the loan.[/bold]

That’s EXACTLY what I’m telling you. Since you took out the loan.

I agree with the posters who have advocated for canceling the interest on the federal student loans.

[quote]Not if the boomers in the homes insist on staying put instead of moving to the retirement communities that they belong in,

Wow. I hope you’re lucky enough to reach their age, having spent most of your life in one home, paying for it over the course of 30 years, only to have some snot-nosed kid tell you “it’s time to get out, Pops. Go to a retirement home! I want your house.”

That was truly typed by someone who’s never paid for nor owned anything of value in their lives.

R113/r127 that’s the stupidest argument I’ve heard.

What an idiotic analogy.

Someone getting an incurable disease vs. having to pay off money that THEY borrowed.

JFC.

[quote]I have no problem paying some for my education, but my loans began accruing 6.5% interest while I was in school and unable to pay.

Why were you “unable to pay”? Others have.

[quote] When I signed my first form and saw the interest rate, I knew nothing about how interest compounds and thought interest was a flat rate on the amount of the loan (ie on a 10k loan, you pay a total of 10,650) and no one told me otherwise

So you signed a document not knowing anything about what you were signing? And not bothering to do even a modicum of research about what taking a loan out entails?

[quote] Even better, when I was doing an underpaid postdoc and couldn’t even afford rent,

So you were a career student.

As long as our system rewards billionaires in ways it never rewards ordinary people - bank bailouts, airline handouts, PPP loan forgiveness, etc. - you'll always have people making the sound argument that our government plays favorites with its actual owners.

All of you cheap cunts were nowhere to be found when TARP poured billions into bankers' bad decisions. You didn't say a word when PPP loans were given out to Kanye West and fifty members of Congress, only to be forgiven with the wave of a hand. But here you are now, calling the rest of us deadbeats for wanting out from under student loan debt.

I blame the Boomers. They inherited the world's greatest educational system, with great teachers and rock-bottom tuition. They immediately fucked it over - because they don't like paying for the shit they use - and now our schools from Kindergarten through graduate school are all shit. Boomers got a subsidized education for peanuts, and now we're left to sell our future just to get the same chance. They also repeatedly wrecked the economy with bad investments and shit-bird voting patterns (thanks, Reaganomics!), and they won't ever retire (because they're too selfish and too broke), so there's nothing left for us but a smoking ruin of what was once a great society.

If you're over fifty, you have no fucking right to call the rest of us irresponsible. Look what you did to this place, then look at yourselves, then sit down and shut up.

[quote] For a $290 a month payment this breaks down to appx $27 in principal and $260 in interest. Usurious, stinking graft in a nutshell.

No different structure than a home mortgage. Look at a breakdown of your payment schedule.

DISGRACEFUL: Poor people getting $$$ from the government

CELEBRATED: Rich people getting $$$ from the government

This sums up America's views...where the majority poor pay the most in taxes and the wealthiest avoid paying taxes yet reap the rewards.

A lot is racial as well...

Poor white people will gladly open their wallets and suffer to subsidize the rich (Trump) but blow a gasket at the thought of a poor black or latino child getting a free meal.

True r168. All of finance is a huge burden on the economy. What should be a rather small part of the economy is instead a ridiculously outsize part of it. I won't deny they definitely have a role to play, at times a good role, but overall it's idiotic how big we've decided banking and stock jobbing and all the creative stealing of making money from money should be. That and what we pay for entertainment are probably the silliest aspects of our whole economy and culture.

[quote] Poor white people will gladly open their wallets and suffer to subsidize the rich

Thank god for poor white people

There's also a more fundamental dishonesty at the heart of all this. The Government and society as a whole do appreciate and benefit from having a well educated population in ways that are incalculable. But of course, as a whole, we'd rather just have it and not pay for it. So to the extent possible we throw the burden on the people actually getting educated. They do benefit as well, of course, but it is a much more symbiotic relationship than people want to pretend.

America needs to do something with the education system that you have so many people taking out loans they can not afford.

They should have learned this basic math by 5th grade. Doesn't anyone for one second consider if they can repay these loans?

Or the most basic fucking thing, "WILL MY MAJOR ALLOW ME TO EARN ENOUGH TO PAY MY STUDENT LOAN"?

I NEVER would have taken out a student loan for some stupid major that would lead to a low paying job. And this was back in the late 1980s.

And for God's sake, don't have kids if you haven't paid off your student loan.

At 17, r174, when everyone is thrilled that they got into a good school and that they better go there, no, nobody is thinking about whether they can afford the loans.

I agree that America needs to do something with the education system, but not quite in the way you mean.

I think that's a reasonable compromise, r163, though I would also add a very hard look at the purely fraudulent schools and their reliance on student loans as well. Those loans might need to be cancelled outright or charged to the schools themselves.

When Pete Buttigieg said no to student loan forgiveness CNN and MSNBC were furious. Funny how they don’t have the same energy for Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden.

Rachel Maddow also accused Pete of being responsible for lay offs at blue cross/blue shields meanwhile wasn’t bothered by feminist hero Elizabeth Warren wanting to put everyone at every health care business out of work.

R168 Did you take out loans at 18 and thoroughly understand how interest works and how it compounds over time? I had “entrance counseling” which was a “sign here” situation and nothing was actually explained to me but there was a ton of confusing legalese. Glad you think just barely adults who didn’t fully understand the interest system and have no ownership over anything in life and struggle to get by are fully responsible for not understanding.

Do you not even think 6.5% is absurdly high for education (not frivolous) when we get car and home loans at 1% or less in some cases?

I couldn’t pay interest in school because I was a poor college student. I always worked during college but couldn’t afford basics like insurance or emergencies. When my car died, that was the end of my car. I was that poor, hence why education was so important.

I have a doctorate and managed to scrape up to middle class from poverty.

You sound like a lovely and compassionate human being to know.

[quote]At 17, [R174], when everyone is thrilled that they got into a good school and that they better go there, no, nobody is thinking about whether they can afford the loans.

You sound like someone who did this.

Before anyone even thinks of applying to any college, they should ask the simplest damned question, "will that degree allow me to make a good living"? OR, "what types of jobs can I get with the major I'm choosing", "how much will the job I want pay"?

I knew this much when I was 13 years old. It's common sense.

Then perhaps we as a society should think about having age requirements for college students and IQ tests. If they're this stupid and immature, they shouldn't be allowed to make such important decisions. Maybe we should think of raising the raise of adulthood from 18 to 21.

Nobody does that r179. You are asking people to be born at age 40. That is not going to happen, except in some cases like yours. Yes, I did do that, and everyone I knew did that. Now I went to school in the early 80s and as it turned out student loans weren't all that big a deal as they have become. I did pay them off, but I too went through some periods when I couldn't and got the deferments or whatever the hell they were back then for awhile.

I will also say, your philosophy tends toward corporate serfdom and education only as a means toward corporate serfdom. I would rather not have that, as well.

R179 I don't believe for a second you, or anyone for that matter, could be that financially minded at 13. That's hyperbole. You may have been a bit more studious or familiar with the concepts, but no, you most certainly weren't assessing career paths post college and loan impacts. Anyone who has taken out student loans knows what this is about and the grift being discussed and anyone who doesn't grasp it, even at a basic level, likely doesn't have student loans and is likely coming at this from a "shit I probably shouldn't have put that $2000 gun safe on my credit card" viewpoint. These are not irresponsible people. They are very young, likely under-financed people who are trying to do good for themselves and their community by getting educated.

Also, pay fluctuates. I graduated from law school at one of the worst economic times. Had I graduated two years earlier, I would have likely made several 10s of thousands more than what I started. And for the record, I'm paying on my loans (even during the covid deferments). While I love my current career, there was good five years where I really wished I didn't go to law school.

I am glad that my blue collar parents who both earned bachelor degrees (separately) evenings and weekends while working full time and raising five children had the sense to sit each of us kids down and say they could afford to pay $XX toward a college degree. That would limit it to XX schools, including commuter and state schools, that were within that price range. They explained how financial aid and loans worked, and also made it clear that I would have to work and save money to pay for books and a social life.

Public schools need to teach financial literacy.

[quote]Before anyone even thinks of applying to any college, they should ask the simplest damned question, "will that degree allow me to make a good living"? OR, "what types of jobs can I get with the major I'm choosing", "how much will the job I want pay"?

You and I sound like we're about the same age, so I find it odd that your university didn't provide this information. My shitty state university did. When you chose a major, you were provided with example jobs, potential salaries for those jobs, future degrees you could earn, all sorts of information like that.

When I was 17, I believed them. By the time I was 22 and had some experience, I realized they were giving out inflated figures. The information they had provided was basically advertising; they wanted students, and so they said "get this degree, you'll make $30K your first year out of school" and it was very, very unlikely to be true.

But where else would I have gotten the information? It was 1990, there was no Google. You could try calling up businesses and asking about salaries but good luck with that. I relied on what the university told me and I suspect a LOT of others did the same.

I don't know what you're even thinking of when you're saying every teenager in the U.S. should have known what average salaries were back then. Even now, the information online isn't always accurate. How could anyone know?

Also, the economy changes quickly enough that I would imagine millions of students go into a major with solid prospects and find out 4 years later that suddenly it's not a great degree to have anymore.

"They should cancel the student debt of people who are willing to work X many years in public service jobs"

They already do this. If you become a teacher or join the Peace Corps after college, your debt is forgiven after a certain number of years.

As someone who paid off my student loans after 18 years of struggling to do so, I'm inclined to say that something needs to be done but forgiving these loans is perhaps not the way to do it. If so, I want back the money I paid over the years at 9% interest (that's what it was in the 90's and I wasn't able to lower it once I went through Sallie Mae). I am YEARS behind my peers and was never able to afford a house/condo or even a one bedroom apartment until now. I'm 52 and I just now feel like I'm able to start living because I'm free from all debt. I don't wish this on anyone else, but there is something to be said about taking out money that you know must be paid back and doing so. The day I paid them off was the best day of my life.

Charging for university is idiotic when you want to inventive more citizens to go to improve the economy in the end.

Biden can’t forgive private loans. He has some power to forgive federal loans only

[quote]He has some power to forgive federal loans only

Which account for 92% of college loans, so whatever he does will have a real impact.

Who are the college kids going to overpriced private colleges that some people keep saying is part of the problem?

I went to ALL state schools—$20k debt from undergrad, $40k from masters, $80k from doctorate working ALL the way through and living paycheck to paycheck and going to public universities starting in the 2000s after colleges had already taken huge federal funding cuts.

Doesn’t that seem concerning that college and living expenses were that expensive in a midwestern state in a place with a generally low cost of living?

[Quote] Which account for 92% of college loans, so whatever he does will have a real impact.

Yes, but Biden is not suggesting he’s getting rid of all of them, which add up to a trillion dollars

[Quote] Who are the college kids going to overpriced private colleges that some people keep saying is part of the problem? I went to ALL state schools—$20k debt from undergrad, $40k from masters, $80k from doctorate working ALL the way through and living paycheck to paycheck and going to public universities starting in the 2000s after colleges had already taken huge federal funding cuts.

You went to school a million years ago. Private colleges are all about $70k/year with room and board. State colleges are reaching to $40k/ year with room and board

R190 well the fact that I came out with $140k debt in 2015 from all state schools while working my way through doesn’t put me in a great financial position now either. I’m saying school is expensive even if you attend state schools.

I had less means than many I suppose—no college contributions from family at all and no emergency funds from them either.

R191, and it’s only gotten worse, making a college education only really for the wealthy.

Taking out all that in loans will keep you among the poor for many decades

In Europe, college degrees are supposed to lead to actual jobs. Check out the difference between fields of study at Oxford or the Sorbonne and fields of study at your average US college.

R184, congrats on achieving that, that's really awesome. I long for the day I get there. However, you have to understand that the government doesn't care about individual fairness. This ultimately has nothing to do with helping out American's and being fair to them; the topic is debated because, if something doesn't get fixed, we could end up in another Great Depression. Discharging some student loan debt is one way to help that, and there are others as well. But currently, people are way too saddled with debt, markets and prices are inflated, and political tensions are very raw and high.

Biden and the democrats are trying to cater to each niche group and they're forgetting about the average people.

Stick to the basics. He could forgive these loans tomorrow and at least half of the recipients wouldn't go out and vote for him.

Stop being seen to be handing out money everywhere. The optics are very bad. This isn't going to get the democrats extra votes.

[quote] In Europe, college degrees are supposed to lead to actual jobs. Check out the difference between fields of study at Oxford or the Sorbonne and fields of study at your average US college.

You forget Commissars (aka 𝑍𝑎𝑚𝑝𝑜𝑙𝑖𝑡s) are required for HR department and governments on every level. Race and Gender Grievance degrees are lucrative.

I went to a third-tier law school, and everyone got loans, whether they needed it or not. $10K a semester. The school took 5 and gave us 5. On "check day" half the class would post pics on Facebook from the casino.

[quote] The school took 5 and gave us 5.

I wish I had thought of that. In law school I could just barely afford an occasional Wendy's.

[Quote] In Europe, college degrees are supposed to lead to actual jobs. Check out the difference between fields of study at Oxford or the Sorbonne and fields of study at your average US college.

College is about making you a full human being and shouldn’t be linked solely to making sure the oligarchs get rich from slave labor

R196, shouldn’t you be getting ready for bed? It’s night in Russia

[Quote] I went to a third-tier law school, and everyone got loans, whether they needed it or not. $10K a semester. The school took 5 and gave us 5. On "check day" half the class would post pics on Facebook from the casino.

And thus you spend your days on DL

The universities, colleges and beauty schools scammed these students with outrageous tuitions for useless diplomas. The US government (and taxpayers) acted in good faith. These unethical institutions should refund a large portion of students' tuitions to repay these loans.

Otherwise, you borrowed it, you owe it.

Instead of loan forgiveness, increase subsidies to state universities with a mandate that tuitions be substantially reduced for in-state students. You should be able to get a degree from your home state university system for $10,000 or less in total, not $10,000/year.

I'm talking about tuition and fees, by the way, not total cost. Your room and board is your problem. Work. Live at home. Live in the crummy sort of student digs ("what a dump!" - B. Davis) students used to live in. In very high-cost areas, state governments could consider rent vouchers for full-time students within 5 years of initial enrollment.

Anyway, the point is that the right thing to do is reduce the cost of public universities, not pay off the loans of people who got expensive but useless degrees at private schools.

How about in return for forgiveness of student loans that the person needs to do a certain amount of public service like volunteering at Habitat for Humanity or Doctors without Borders or such? The loan is forgiven and society gets something back.

It was a slap in my face, how quickly debt was replaced, and are you thinking of me when you fucked it?

College is over rated and basically a holding pen for 18 - 22 year olds to keep them from entering the workplace.

Forty-three million Americans have student loan debt — that's one in 8 Americans (12.9%), according to an analysis of May 2021 census data.

[quote]We can do that and require that people pay back every dollar they took. It’s not an either/or situation.

Except, people with student loans aren't paying back every dollar they took.

They're paying back every dollar they took but an absorbent amount of interest. See: R137.

[quote]How about I took out a loan for my son 12 years ago, for $28,000. I have been paying my monthly bill religiously since then and as of today my amount still owing is $24,000!! For a $290 a month payment this breaks down to appx $27 in principal and $260 in interest.

This is not an unusual story. That is the problem that needs to be rectified.

At the least, get rid of interest on educational loans and deduct the amount of interest already paid on loans.

Also I haven't heard a good argument as to why we wouldn't WANT our population to be educated. That argument that you can go to a "state" school doesn't fly when those aren't cheap either. In a perfect world it wouldn't matter if someone went to Harvard or if someone went to Florida State but it does.

This student loan forgiveness must be stopped in its tracks. Every dinero spent on these gringo yuppies is stolen from the mouths of our new rightful citizens.

Nobody has the power or balls to fix the cost of US higher education. Just like nobody has the power or balls to fix US health care. Forgiving debt today is pissing in the wind. FIX THE PUBLIC HIGHER EDUCATION SYSTEMS.

Never understood the concept of targeting poor people. The mortgage deduction is one of the biggest debts we have. Thr concept is homeowners buy things, stabilize communities. Any time the economy is in deep trouble, the key is to get money to working and middle class people.

Rich people hoard, transfer income to assets that aren't taxed.

And yet somehow people think poor people are the drain in the economy and responsible for blowing up the deficit.

There are lots of arguments against student loan forgiveness, but as far as costs, rich people who collect money and don't pay taxes are the biggest burdens on the taxpaper.

[quote]Also I haven't heard a good argument as to why we wouldn't WANT our population to be educated.

Educated to the level that graduating from high school used to mean, yes, but not with college degrees. First of all, 50% of the population has below-average intelligence. Should they all get degrees? Does every job require a degree? We need more jobs suitable for those of average or below average cognitive skills and more jobs that require a realistic training (like an apprenticeship), not more people with degrees in useless subjects from fourth-rate "universities" that only qualify as universities because they offer M.Ed. degrees or the like.

[quote]That argument that you can go to a "state" school doesn't fly when those aren't cheap either. In a perfect world it wouldn't matter if someone went to Harvard or if someone went to Florida State but it does.

It certainly does. Someone who goes to Harvard will get all the financial aid they need AND - irony of ironies - a job that would enable them to pay back student loans without too much difficulty ... if they had any, which they won't. FSU grads can't say the same, although compared to many of the schools that people rack of up debt to attend FSU is practically Ivy League.

[quote]Educated to the level that graduating from high school used to mean, yes, but not with college degrees.

You touched base on this but yes, the problem is also that jobs that didn't require a degree a couple of decades ago or even a decade ago now do. Even jobs that required a college degree have gone from just that to, a Masters, multiple internships and years of experience just for an entry level that no entry level person would normally have.

[quote] First of all, 50% of the population has below-average intelligence. Should they all get degrees?

First of all, there are 334,564,690 Americans and if we say 50% that's still 167,282,345 that do not have below-average intelligence.

Also, it's not your fault, but it's hard to measure just how many people have "below-average intelligence." There is plenty of reason to believe that IQ testing is only indicative of a person's IQ at the time the test is taken which could be at any point in their lives. If a person goes to a terrible school in a state with low education standards, then of course their standardized testing scores are going to be low.

[quote]We need more jobs suitable for those of average or below average cognitive skills and more jobs that require a realistic training (like an apprenticeship), not more people with degrees in useless subjects from fourth-rate "universities" that only qualify as universities because they offer M.Ed. degrees or the like.

I'd add if someone wants to go to a University they should be able to without feeling that the whole thing is cost-prohibitive.

If someone doesn't, then they should be able to get a job that pays well without having a college degree.

I used to work for a major company. A guy I worked for was about to retire. The president of our company came down from his ivory tower to visit him. They both had started together in the mail room. Neither had a college degree. They still were able to obtain high level positions. The only reason they were was because they started some 40/50 years before and stayed with the company.

Neither would have qualified for the mail room position at the time. (It was considered entry level. It required a college degree and at least three years experience.)

Also back when they started, starting in the mail room meant that you were going to eventually be moved out and get another position at the company because it allowed you to know people. Of course, by that point, if you were in the mail room you stayed there.

Finally, people don't stay with companies that long anymore. The only way to progress and be paid more, at that place, was to leave for a higher position outside of the company instead of sticking with them for a shitty 2% or so raise every year. There were quite a few people that left for jobs that paid them 10 to 20 grand more and then returned to be paid even more. Otherwise they got stuck with base salary pay bumps.

Paul Begala told comic and pundit Bill Maher that the student debt forgiveness crusade — being led by Sen. Elizbeth Warren — is designed in a lab with the goal of “pissing off the working class.”

On Friday night’s edition of HBO’s Real Time with Bill Maher, Maher observed that the push to forgive large amounts of student debt is a “loser issue” for President Joe Biden, and Begala agreed in colorful fashion:

PAUL BEGALA: You think? Yeah, well, and this is revealing a big secret. Don’t tell anybody that 𝑤𝑒 𝐷𝑒𝑚𝑜𝑐𝑟𝑎𝑡𝑠 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑎 𝑙𝑎𝑏. 𝑇𝑤𝑜 𝑙𝑎𝑏𝑠, 𝑎𝑐𝑡𝑢𝑎𝑙𝑙𝑦, 𝑠𝑒𝑐𝑟𝑒𝑡 𝑙𝑎𝑏𝑠, 𝑜𝑛𝑒 𝑖𝑛 𝐵𝑒𝑟𝑘𝑒𝑙𝑒𝑦 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑜𝑛𝑒 𝑖𝑛 𝐵𝑟𝑜𝑜𝑘𝑙𝑦𝑛, 𝑤ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑤𝑒 𝑐𝑜𝑚𝑒 𝑢𝑝 𝑤𝑖𝑡ℎ 𝑖𝑑𝑒𝑎𝑠 𝑡𝑜 𝑐𝑜𝑚𝑝𝑙𝑒𝑡𝑒𝑙𝑦 𝑝𝑖𝑠𝑠 𝑜𝑓𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑤𝑜𝑟𝑘𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑐𝑙𝑎𝑠𝑠. 𝐴𝑛𝑑 𝑖𝑡’𝑠 𝑤𝑜𝑟𝑘𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑤𝑜𝑛𝑑𝑒𝑟𝑓𝑢𝑙𝑙𝑦.

BILL MAHER: Labs, you say, actual labs…

PAUL BEGALA: And they all have PhDs right in pissing off the working class. Somehow, in my lifetime, the Democrats have gone from being the party of the factory floor to being the party faculty lounge. I went last week. I spent Wednesday last week in Chicago with the machinists union. Hung out with the machinists all day. Great guys. Not a one of them came up to me and said, Gee, I really hope you take my tax dollars to pay off the debt of somebody went to Stanford.

R214 it was funny. Except for the minor point, as already noted above, that its not the fancy pants Stanfords and Ivy Leagues producing this debt. At least not for undergrads. And the machinist probably has a stupid skank cousin who did borrow 50K for some shitty 2-year tech college diploma.

R51, Can you be more specific re: Policy of GWB?

If you mean his bribes/payoffs to the WTC families and the illegal invasion of Iraq with its attendant "Homeland Security" expense and BS---yes, he won re-election.

But notice who succeeded him.

I believe Democrats stand for nothing if not caring for the general welfare, especially for the historically disenfranchised, marginalized, impoverished, and powerless.

We owe all of our "safety net" to Democrats.

Doesn't mean that I, as a die-hard Democrat, have to agree with President Biden on this one issue. I see the Administration's current "loan forgiveness" ideas as not that well thought-out.

IMO, one major hurdle is that the "forgiveness" will not, cannot, be "Grandfathered" in any equitable manner whatsoever, and so won't be at all.

Too many former borrowers have life and career trajectories different from what might have been.

To the "We Have to Start Somewhere" argument, the obvious reply is "Why?"

America you are crazy! You need an educated public but punish those that choose to further their education by forcing them into debt for the majority of their adult lives, the American nightmare.

[quote]Anyway, the point is that the right thing to do is reduce the cost of public universities, not pay off the loans of people who got expensive but useless degrees at private schools.

This is why I totally hate this whole debate. Most people have so little understanding of this issue, what was proposed, who it's going to impact, and just make up things. No one ever said the government was going to pay off all the loans for people with useless degrees, that is total misinformation which leads to these dumb threads.

Biden ran on 10k relief per borrower, which is a totally reasonable proposition. We do not need sweeping changes to the entire higher ed system to get that done. The idea was to REDUCE the monthly payments for borrowers to give them leverage and put that money back into the economy. Most people have around 30k in total debt; that means the government would reduce monthly payments by around $50-100 dollars, which is measly compared to other aid the government provides.

Most people have not made student loan payments since March 2020 when the pandemic suspension started. We are heading into a recession by next year, so Biden will likely extend it yet again. Those extensions have been a rare bipartisan effort, that alone drives home the fact that a permanent action must be taken soon. Dems will lose support if they don't get something done.

And I will also add that I know many working professionals with student loans in their 30s and 40s (those people that Dems desperately needs votes from), most of them have said they will not vote for Biden/Harris again if this does not pass. Full stop. So when we all sit here in two years and wonder what happened, look no further. Its time to shit or get off the pot.

More than 50% of student debt is owed by people who went to grad school. So many people go to grad school to avoid having to get a job.

[quote] And I will also add that I know many working professionals with student loans in their 30s and 40s (those people that Dems desperately needs votes from), most of them have said they will not vote for Biden/Harris again if this does not pass. Full stop.

Thank you for your honesty in admitting this is nothing more than a partisan third world vote buying project using first world money

R219, So INSTEAD, those "working professionals" will simply allow, or even vote for, the Fascist take-over and NEVER see debt relief?

Never mind their actual rights, which apparently are NOT "settled law" to non-Democratic politicians and judges.

Lefties are NOT broke. They're entitled brats with rich parents. They're as much rightwingers as leftwingers. And once they actually get jobs and have to pay taxes, they'll all be Republicans.

Nope r222 sorry if Biden wants the votes he's got to get at least 10k passed, its not too much to ask. They will leave him in the wind like Hilary and not vote if he doesn't. That simple. Younger dems and minorities are over their votes being taken for granted. And by younger I mean people in their 40s and 30s who are raising their own kids now.

All of us who spent the past decade paying down our debt also must get reimbursed. Otherwise, no. It would be BS to not pay us back as well as the others.

r225 I think a stimulus payment would be appropriate for those who made payments in the last ten years. Those who qualified for the COVID stimulus should get some type of payment based on their total debt paid in those years. Biden only indicated he is going up to 10k. Most people will still be making payments but lower payments.

They could fashion it just like nursing care is paid out today, and as a branch of Social Security.

The federal government would create a monthly “copay” amount paid directly towards loan supplementing your payment that’s revisited annually based on reported taxes- wherein the government weighs a percent of monthly repayment based upon ALL your submitted financials. To avoid fraud, you’d have to visit the Social Security office annually in person to renew it. There would be a default as well as a designated higher amount paid out if you became unemployed, etc, and your part of the loan would be deferred until you start working again.

There has to be 1. Accountability 2. Proof you intend to repay 3. A haircut on grossly overaccrued interest 4. Consequences for not paying 5. Easy to use app/website 6.Government offices to address problems in person 7. Some sort of financial training involved 8. It should be established day 1 with every new loan

[quote]They could fashion it just like nursing care is paid out today,

I admire your planning here but no one is going to go through all of that trouble, especially since, "We're going to set up an agency to do this ... in 5 years!" isn't going to fly.

[quote]most of them have said they will not vote for Biden/Harris again if this does not pass. Full stop.

People here keep overlooking the fact that some sort of student loan forgiveness is supported by the majority of Americans BOTH Republican and Democrat. There's a reason those extensions kept passing. Republicans aren't stupid. They know they're going to have to do something. More than likely the Democrats will want it to apply to the poor and the Republicans will want a few grand back in their pockets from paying for their children. What we'll end up with is somewhere in the middle.

However, it doesn't matter whether Congress is cooperating or not. Biden can not keep dodging campaign promises (his fault or not) because the average American isn't going to parse all that out. He's currently the person who was seated when Row vs Wade overturned (remember when he said he'd open up an exploratory committee to investigate the court makeup), when inflation and gas prices were at an all time high, and who made quite a few campaign promises that didn't actually happen. Sending money off to the Ukraine more than once instead of helping people here. He is a President for a different time in history. If he runs again he will have all of this thrown back into his face.

I believe student loan forgiveness is important. However, I believe President Biden has been smart to not be urged into forgiving "50K with a stroke of his pen." I think it's important to communicate whatever relief may be given as a type of stimulus program, and that the relief be along the lines of waiving the crapton of interest and not just a cash prize to those who do not need it. What really needs to happen is the cost of education needs to come down.

I worked my way through college all four years but, by sheer necessity (due to a long-term employer halting their flexible schedule for school policy) had to: a. change schools to one with accelerated night study, b. finance my last year to the tune of 13K. Decades later, with starts and stops on my repayment largely due to the recession, several thousand extra in interest, working in public service during a time period it no longer counted toward loan forgiveness, I am in my fifties and down to paying my last 3K. Any small amount of relief to take off the extra interest paid would be a blessing, and I don't begrudge others who may get more.

To be competitive internationally, USA needs educated and skilled workers. Government has the ability to support that goal in an effective way.

[quote]The federal government would create a monthly “copay” amount paid directly towards loan supplementing your payment that’s revisited annually based on reported taxes- wherein the government weighs a percent of monthly repayment based upon ALL your submitted financials.

r227 that is very similar to income driven repayment which is already available for federal loans. There is no supplement but payments are based on your prior year taxes, household size, and dependents. You are just adding a supplement based on income reported. Student loan servicers are notoriously bad with processing and reviewing applications, so I don't think its a good idea to add a supplement eligibility determination to their work. I think an across the board stimulus of 5-10k would be better.

IDR saved me for the first few years when I was out of college making shit money, I could make reasonable payments and build credit. However it does extend the amount of years you pay, and interest, of course.

R212 is on the right vibe. College education has become overrated, overwrought, and overvalued. Find a way to create specialty training outside of a college degree that equate into high paying jobs, ESPECIALLY people of color and the marginalized that may not make the cut to get into college. It’s less to do with intellect and more to do with finding a job/occupation people can be passionate about.

A good reason -- not to be mad, per se, but to be wary of this: if this is done, some unwise people will take out brand new student loans with expectation that this will become the norm and these loans will be forgiven again 10 years down the line, or whatever. You know there will be some who do that. Monkey see monkey do.

I couldn't care less. I owe nothing, but erase away. There shouldn't be poor people in a country this rich.

[quote]sorry if Biden wants the votes he's got to get at least 10k passed, its not too much to ask. They will leave him in the wind like Hilary and not vote if he doesn't

Just 13% of Americans have student loan debt. That’s not exactly a huge constituency. And a whole bunch of those who would have their loans forgiven or relieved are Republican and aren’t going to vote for Biden no matter what.

That doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be done, just that it’s not going to benefit Biden much.

r235 those votes absolutely count on election night, and especially now with Biden's lackluster administration. He's going to need all the help he can get if he runs.

[quote]Just 13% of Americans have student loan debt. That’s not exactly a huge constituency.

That's 43 million Americans or 1 in 8 people.

And what group votes Democratic (and to be honest, votes at all): college educated Americans.

I was thankful that anyone beat Trump. That said, Biden is so out of touch, he doesn't even know what a loaf of bread cost.

BRB--going to take out some student loans real quick! I'll live off of them for the next few years. Thanks, Biden!!!

[quote]Anyway, the point is that the right thing to do is reduce the cost of public universities, not pay off the loans of people who got expensive but useless degrees at private schools.

That would require work. The democrats are not going to do that, They are lazy and useless.

You see how they've sat back for 40 years while the republicans chipped away at roe v wade.

Okay R238, smartypants. What does a loaf of bread cost?

Rolling my eyes.

Okay, I guess it was meat, not bread.

Let's make a deal. I will tell you what a loaf of stale bread costs if you let me beat you with it. Sound fair?

Oh, and here is the link.

r238, I hate the Russian posting guideline that states something ambiguous and then something shitty about a Democrat.

Subtle bothsiderism.

It's simple. I voted for Biden, only because I hate Trump. Biden is not going to win another election. He is ineffective as prez..

I voted for Hillary, too. Does that make me bothsideristic.

I would vote for Buttigieg. His last name is unfortunate.

Buttigieg (Maltese: Buttiġieġ [bʊtːɪd͡ʒɪːt͡ʃ]) is a Maltese surname, derived from Sicilian Arabic أبو الدجاج Abu-d-dajāj(i), meaning 'chicken owner, poulterer' (literally 'father of chickens').

R247, You are absurd. Pray tell how,Trump wood have been/would be better.

Maybe you mean like simply allowing Putin to conquer Ukraine? Or maybe more lackadaisical response to Covid-19? More grand larceny of Ivanka and Jared? US withdrawal from NATO? Yet another Fascist this year appointed to the Supreme Court? Etc.

"would"

r247, The success of the American Rescue Plan Act that saved every fucking Red State from having to lay off employees and raise taxes, Finally an Infrastructure Bill passed, and not a stringing along nonsense of Infrastructure Week crap. A big hat tip to all the bridges collapsing. Coalescing NATO and now expanding NATO and being a leader in the Cyber, Military and Humanitarian response to Trump's Friend. And that is THE BEGINNING of why legally elected President Joe Biden is not only an effective president, but a CONSEQUENTIAL president.

Just pay it, geezus - don't be assholes!

Whenever I find myself wondering how on earth anyone can see Biden as an effective president, I'm reminded that he's only popular with the most stubborn, set in their ways, myopic, generation in this country. Then it starts making sense.

R254 He's better than Trump, but that's no high bar.

r253 Im guessing you haven't read any of the 200+ replies in this discussion: it is a proposed DEBT REDUCTION. Most people will still have to make payments, smaller ones, if this ever is approved.

I *had* a friend who was hoping and praying this would happen! It's why she voted for Bernie back in the day. She took out student loans to live off of in order to avoid having to work and then got kicked out of school for not going (she was in her 40s, btw). I say HAD a friend because after she blew through all of her student loan money she came crying to me, asking to "borrow" money. I told her no and she never spoke to me again. If getting her utilities shut off and being evicted from her apartment weren't motivation enough for her to get a fucking job then what would've motivated her to get one in order to pay me back!? Nothing. Anyway, I just know she's giddy as fuck over this debt forgiveness possibly happening! As someone who actually had to work his way through college, this is a massive slap in the face.

r257 Im guess you haven't read the thread either. Your bum ass ex-friend will still be making payments. Are you people just not getting it?

Yes, I did read the thread. From what I read it's just a bunch of speculation about how much will be forgiven and/or what *should* be done. Anyway, the entire thing reminds me of this inequality experiment that was done with monkeys:

*Fairness experiment, not inequality

Fuck em. They will make more money with the degree. People with degrees can/should pay their own debts.

Senator Chris Murphy tweeted this week that it makes no sense to forgive student loans, we have to fix how over-priced these degrees are:

It seems that the majority of loans to be forgiven are from for-profit shit-show "colleges" that commit fraud by preying on less educated, less well off people. They con people into thinking they will get good paying jobs. It is a scam.

Rather than forgiving loans, we should prosecute these for profits and use the fines to pay back loans.

Trump University?

Whaaa no one helped me when I was walking through the snow to school everyday, so no one else should ever get any help!

Whaaaa!

Don't take out loans you can't pay back, R265. Take responsibility for your choices.

[quote]Rather than forgiving loans, we should prosecute these for profits and use the fines to pay back loans.

r263, for most people this is will amount to a debt REDUCTION not total forgiveness. How many times do I have to tell you bitches?

I want a debt reduction on my credit card bills. Let someone else pay off my 85" OLED!

R266 Take responsibility for eating shit.

Oooo girl, somebody took out too much debt! Now she mad about it!