My Fair Lady (1964)

My personal favorite golden age movie musical. Have it on 4K Blu-ray and watch it at least once a year.

just another film about the misogyny of gay men gentrifying the poor, fetishizing minorities, and causing them to become fully dependent upon them then abandoning them when the novelty has worn off... this is exactly why feminists believe they shouldn't adopt or use surrogacy.

My big pussy

R2 but Higgins is not gay and falls in love with Eliza?

I heard that George Sanders was going to play Colonel Pickering but had to drop out last minute. Same for Michael Hordern as Alfred P. Doolittle.

r4 how else could he attract a twink without her? of course, he "missed" his toy, is property, his chattel prize, the future womb of his gay babies.

It’s a perfect film. I know Julie Andrews should have been cast. Yet somehow I don’t know if it would have seen the same magic Hepburn brings to it as Eliza. I guess Andrews would have made it her own.

R4 he (or she) has to be a troll

R8, R4 is currently on the AIDS thread effectively saying those who died deserved it due to promiscuity!!

You bet she could made it her own because she was sensational on stage and at the height of her vocal powers. Hepburn, and I love her, was old for the part and then there’s the now awkward sounding dubbing of a completely different voice. Otherwise a great film and Freddy is a cupcake. Harrison is great as are all the supporting characters. .

r8 you think the subjugation of women is a joke? if she couldn't produce, he probably buried her in the cellar with the other failures and proclaimed himself "Liza!" dropping the E because you can't do proper jazz hands saying Eliza! It just looks wrong., This is whole film is just a tranny training guide.

Rex Harrison was an old fart sexist pig who contributed to the death of Carole Landis and cheated on all his wives. He was also far too old and stuffy for the lovely Audrey Hepburn in My Fair Lady.

Still, I love the movie and watch it whenever it pops up on TCM. The music, sets, fashions, and charm are fun. It's from another era that I enjoy visiting from time to time.

It’s very faithful, but it’s so stilted it comes off as an embalming of the Broadway musical

I agree the dubbing should never have happened. In fact, wouldn’t it be lovely sounds wrong with this operatic voice chiming out.

r9 Nope. You can track my stupidity by the routine mistakes I make with typing and grammical errors, do the block then see who you blocked and unblock trick, or just ask me. I've wasted most of my time today on the new homophobia thread and the hate being a canadian,

I love old-time Hollywood stories and books. I have yet to read a good word about Harrison as a person. Evidently, he was a giant asshole.

I never heard about George Sanders but James Cagney was first choice for Dolittle and Cary Grant and Peter O'Toole were the first and second choice for Higgins. When they fell through Warner and Cukor wanted Harrison to do a screen test. I believe he declined. Rudely.

He didn’t think he could do the part on film because he couldn’t sing and acted his songs in speak sing. For the film they wanted him to prerecord the songs and lip sync to them. Harrison said he couldn’t do this because he performed the song differently each time. Therefore, for the film they allowed him to speak sing as he performed on camera. Then the reverse happened and the songs he performed on camera were extracted from the audio and put onto the soundtrack.

But that’s why he turned it down initially.

Ugh, fucking hate this movie. Audrey Hepburn was completely miscast and Rex Harrison was a grouchy old 300-year-old man. The dynamic between the two of them was downright fucking creepy.

Rehearsal footage, showing Harrison being a dick starting at 4:50

My Fair Laddy

Is it true that Elizabeth Taylor wanted this role? Anyone know?

I think she was in the mix, r22.

In that video at r21, it’s especially good at 7:40 when he demands that the verse’s orchestration for “An Ordinary Man” be removed.

It wasn’t.

Yup, Harrison was an asshole- I met him- he pursued and dated a friend of mine (she about 10 years older than me) . She was Halston’s couture client director- a real class act. He was cordial but I did get a creepy vibe. Nevertheless he was brilliant on stage and in the film.

My friend wrote Barbie Girl! Ha ha.

Fun fact: Stewie Griffin's voice and the British accent were based on Rex Harrison. The more you know!

[quote]I agree the dubbing should never have happened. In fact, wouldn’t it be lovely sounds wrong with this operatic voice chiming out.

Just as with Natalie Wood in "West Side Story," Audrey Hepburn wanted to do her own singing in "My Fair Lady" and pre-recorded all of Eliza's songs, even lip-syncing to her own tracks during filming. Of course, her voice wasn't up to the task, This made the job of dubbing more difficult for Marni Nixon (according to an interview Nixon did), because, in recording the songs, Nixon had to match Hepburn's lip movements. Both Wood's and Hepburn's vocal tracks can be heard on YouTube. Wood sounds slightly better than Hepburn, who can't even stay on pitch.

Audrey was certainly a better choice than horsefaced Julie... and Rex, the creep factor comes to some people, I think, because they had good chemistry together. . . just as he did with Wilfrid. And, Wilfrid with Audrey as well. We get this strange (queer) family dynamic between them all.

For the character, she needed someone that was a more father figure type character but in which the audience wouldn't be attracted to.. he presents stability and tough love more than 50 shades of gray vs her own father that was ready to pimp her out for a handout.

I'm more willing to look at the end as platonic love affair -more akin to not knowing he needed that kind of love in his life. Not so much a romantic partner but in essence, having a child and rushed thru story of watching her mature into a woman -- a possibility that could never naturally occur for him, especially being a bachelor for such a long period. So, through his story, we go through more the tales of a confirmed bachelor that's finally learning to settle down, invested in something outside of himself despite some might argue this is a vanity project but nonetheless, his obsession is less with himself and the bet than it appears. .he becomes emotionally invested, perhaps, for the first time in his life.

Col. Pickering is what brings the softer touch to both characters with his infatuation with Higgins. . . the casual hookup that never quite left and just happened to enter the scene at the same time Eliza did. He's the bridge between the two. Whereas Higgins represents tough love, Pickering is the nurturer.... either one being a better father than she had. . . and various female role models appear in the film, but they're initially hesitant as well. . . from the household to his own mother... albeit, his mother with a catty grin, acts as many a grandmother would in finally having revenge through him experiencing what it's like to be a parent and watching her son grow, with a swift kick to the derriere, into a man.

TL;DR

There was nothing innovative about Bart Sher's ending. He stole it from Ingmar Bergman's stage production of A Doll's House which ended with Nora walking up the aisle of the theater and slamming the door on the audience. It doesn't make sense for Eliza to come back to say 'I washed my face and hands I did' and then immediately exit through the audience. It's nonsense. If you're going to have the courage of your convictions it should just end with Higgins singing I've Grown Accustomed to Her Face, finding himself in the loneliness of his house and playing the recording of Eliza's voice. Then curtain.

Honestly, I don’t care for it at all. Hate that movie.

[quote]should just end with Higgins singing I've Grown Accustomed to Her Face, finding himself in the loneliness of his house and playing the recording of Eliza's voice.

…while masturbating. That’ll shake up this tired old play!

[quote]Audrey was certainly a better choice than horsefaced Julie

No, Matt, she wasn’t. She was a piss-poor choice for a role she wasn’t suited for.

R29, who is Julie?

[quote]who is Julie?

Julie Newmar, Rose. Cat Woman was up for the part of Eliza Doolittle.

I believe Julie Christie was in the mix also.

Oh for chrissakes, they were referring to Julie London!

r34 by aesthetics, she was the perfect fit. . .

this wasn't a stage production, dahling,.

We needed someone that could from pauper to convincing Princess. . . not bargain bin nanny.

I think it's a vastly overrated film. Rex Harrison was just too old. And everything already said about Audrey Hepburn being wrong as Eliza is true. Way over the top. I'm not sure who I would have cast but she would have to be young and able to sing.

But it's Cukor, with his lingering on AH's face, the flowers, etc. and the soft focus? Ugh. All the supporting roles are much better than the stars, probably because Cukor left them alone.

Had they waited a couple of years to make it, I'd have loved to have seen Peter O'Toole as Higgins and Leslie Ann Warren as Eliza.

Sure, r40...sure...

Well, Shaw certainly gave Eliza a spine at the end of the original play, "Pygmalion." I've never read the play, maybe I should. From a google search... At the end of the play, after an enormous battle of wills, Eliza decides to strike out on her own. “If I can't have kindness, I'll have independence,” she declares. Then, according to Shaw's final stage directions, Eliza "sweeps out."

There's more is you keep googling... Shaw worked hard to protect Eliza's integrity in not allowing her to end up with Higgins, which I think, as others have mentioned should be the ending of the musical. Eliza could have left the house, found Freddy on the street and at least taken a walk away from the camera with him.

Jeremy Irons doing Higgins in a concert production with Kiri Te Kanawa

They should have cast Sally Anne Howes and retitled the character Julie Scrumptious

R41

R22 yes, but Richard talked her out of it.

Am I a bet? Am I a FUCKING bet?!

R46, I didn't know that. Do you know why he talked her out of it?

How has no one talked about sexy (ang gay) Jeremy Brett???!

Jeremy Brett was not gay.

Neither was Liberace or Charles Nelson Reilly

I enjoy the film version of Pygmalion more. Wendy Hiller is terrific as Eliza and Leslie Howard is sexy AF as Professor Higgins. I was shocked because I'm one of those who has no idea why Scarlett is so nuts about Ashley, but there it is.

Audrey was fine as Eliza became a lady, but in the early scenes of the film Julie would have been much better. It was a big deal when Oscar-favorite Audrey did not get nominated for this movie. Rex was diplomatic when , during his acceptance speech, he thanked both of his fair ladies.

I thought Wilfrid Hyde-White was perfect casting , but a little of Stanley Holloway goes a long way.

R52 a little Alfred P. Doolittle goes a long way...

[quote] fetishizing minorities,

Which minorities are you talking about R2? Perhaps you are a robot?

R5 You don't have have any links for those two assertions, do you.

Audrey wasn't convincing as a cockney

[quote] embalming

You stole that word, didn't you, R13? Kael?

[quote] I love old-time Hollywood stories and books.

Bully for you, R16

[quote] I have yet to read a good word about Harrison as a person

You need to read English stories and books, especially by theatre practitioners and professionals and avoid second-hand muck-rakers.

[quote] I believe

You believe incorrectly, R37.

I thought Julie Andrews was the singer- and that was why she won the Oscar for Mary Poppins, because the academy was sympathetic that she had really performed for both movies that year.

They were begging me but Gary talked me out if it.

Everyone hated Harrison. You will look in vain for a story of his kindliness or generosity. Still he was quite wonderful in a number of films. I think he called Moss Hart a faggot or worse in front of the cast of MFL and he called Julie a bitch or very probably worse in front of the same cast.

[quote] I think … probably worse …

Undocumented gossip about stars by anonymous bottom-feeders have no value.

[quote] his kindliness or generosity

Harrison was a light comic actor who worked well and within his range. He wasn't a bishop or a philanthropist or a Social Justice Warrior.

[quote]and he called Julie a bitch or very probably worse

He called her a bloody stool and proceeded to hit her in the head with a fondue pot, r62.

What about Gladys Cooper?

'Undocumented gossip' Would legal notarized documentation help? EVERYONE says that Harrison was a shit.

Gladys was only hired when Jack Warner failed to get Peter O'Toole for the star role. There was no one else sufficiently elderly to be Harrison's mother.

They could have gotten Wendy Hiller.

Wendy Hiller was supposed to be in Anastasia with Natalie at the Ahmanson.

Terrible film. Weakest Oscar best picture nominee that year.

Gladys knew Jack Warner from the 1940s.

Jack Warner had Gladys on contract and he wanted Flora Robson too.

I love Dame Gladys. She was quite beautiful when she was young.

She was in silent films too. Fucking ancient in My Fair Lady.

She was 78 when MFL came out. Rex Harrison was 56. She was old enough to be his mother, and she stole every scene she was in.

[quote]Gladys was only hired when Jack Warner failed to get Peter O'Toole for the star role. There was no one else sufficiently elderly to be Harrison's mother.

Not true that she was the only one old enough. When "My Fair Lady" was revived on Broadway in 1981, with Rex Harrison reprising his role as Higgins, his mother was played by Cathleen Nesbitt, who was then in her 90s. She had created the role of Mrs. Higgins in the original production of "My Fair Lady" in 1956 and had also appeared in the 1938 movie of "Pygmalion."

Cathleen Nesbitt was a close friend of George Cukor, but that wasn't enough to get her cast in the movie. She and Gladys Cooper were born a few weeks apart in 1888 and appeared together in "Separate Tables."

For what it's worth, Nesbitt praised Harrison's "sheer professionalism and his loyalty to Shaw's words" in the Broadway production, and said it was "one of the happiest companies I have ever known."

And she got to go up and down the stairs, seated, on The Farmer's Daughter, r75.

Gladys got The Rogues...

[quote] They could have gotten Wendy Hiller.

In that case Wendy must've given birth to Rex when she was aged 4.

Rex and Wendy were lovers in 'Major Barbara' and again in this small TV movie (with gay sub-plot).

Well Angela gave birth to Laurence when she was 3 so why not?

And Eileen gave birth to Laurence when she was minus ten.

Audrey makes me smile all the way through.

How about Betty Bacall as Eliza or Mrs. Higgins or Mrs. Pierce. Maybe Colonel Pickering.

How about Orson Welles as Freddie?

Rex Harrrison was a great actor (esp at 4:40 when he is being chased around by Doolittle's bad breath) but Audrey Hepburn's acting was horrible.

R73 There's no need to use profane language when talking about an Englishwoman.

[quote] Would legal notarized documentation help?

Yes, it would R66. It would help dispel the notion that some Dataloungers are sozzled-up mindless queens regurgitating ancient gossip from sixty years ago.

The ending sucks. It betrays Shaw's satirical point.

Well you've confirmed the notion some Dataloungers are condescending dictatorial twats.

I thought the ending was ambiguous.

Shaw's point was that a well-spoken cabbage-leaf would be accepted in polite society. He didn't prophesy that Eliza would be happy.

If you can't accept the ending of My Fair Lady then you have to throw out the entire score. The ending is in the music of the entire show. Not that anyone today would have a clue.

Mary Poppins was MUCH better!

Isn't it just "Pretty Woman" without the lip synching?

[quote]Isn't it just "Pretty Woman" without the lip synching?

"Pretty Woman" had lip-syncing?

American My Fair Lady:

Eliza- Betty Bacall

Henry Higgins- Vincent Price

Colonel Pickering- Lee Strasberg

Alfred P. Doolittle- George Burns

Freddie- Ronald Reagan

Mrs. Higgins- Estelle Winwood

"I learned two things at RADA - I can't act and it doesn't matter."

Eliza- Julie Andrews

Higgins- Michael Redgrave

Pickering- Ralph Richardson

Alfred- Donald Wolfit

Freddie- Dirk Bogarde

and Dame Edith Evans as Mrs. Higgins

Lerner said, "The first person I thought of was Rex Harrison." He said he asked Kurt Weill, "Does Rex sing?" and Weill replied, "Enough."

Lerner later said, "Rex is one of the few enduring friends I have made in the theatre. He has been unfailingly loyal, sympathetic, and generous - on one occasion flying from Italy to New York in mid-winter to help me out for one night."

[quote] Jeremy Brett.

He was brought all the way from England to La La Land but he was ignored there.

My Unfair Man

I saw My Fair Lady last year for the first time, and it was trash. The costumes were gorgeous, but the screenplay and casting were pathetic. Some old guy verbally and emotionally abuses a woman for 2 hours.

The only one who "sings" in this is Rex Harrison and he talks his way through it. None of the actual talent appears onscreen. The opposite of entertainment

I don't think the film is very good (I love the show); I liked it the first time I saw it, but subsequent viewings make me aware of how bad Audrey Hepburn is in it. It's as if Gigi were playing Eliza Doolittle. She's never that dirty, draggle-tailed guttersnipe Higgins says she is. She never seems like a filthy, uneducated girl from the slums - though Audrey tries. It throws the whole film off.

Vincente Minnelli, who Lerner and Warner both wanted to direct it, ended up ruining his chance by asking for too much money. When he was asked much later what he would have done differently, he said he would have made it more colorful. That made me laugh when I read it because MFL is a very drab looking musical. Cukor was known for not wanted added color (in the lighting) on his sets - he used to say, the set is painted beautifully, we don't need to add any color. Minnelli was a master of color - Cukor almost seems colorblind, with all the drab sets and lighting.

OP=the biggest MARY on the planet.

I like r98's casting ideas.

Wasn't Rex Harrison a real shit in real life?

He was a cunt, R107.

No, R107, you shouldn't waste your time listening to lazy gossip retailed by queens who've never met Rex Harrison.

Points off when both leads in a musical can't sing.

This is how they should have ended, with Eliza telling Professor 'Iggins to piss off!

R106 thank you! I think it would have been a fun movie with those actors.

What do you think of Audrey's Cockney accent? It sounds fine to my American ear, and she has the appropriate braying tone of voice, a bit too well-projected but all the actors are doing that,... my biggest criticism with her performance is her posh, post-lessons accent. Instead of the perfect upper-class queenly English intonation she ought to have, she has her usual faint Belgian accent, the speech of an international sophisticate whose English is better than most native-speakers' and only faintly accented. Which is posh in its own way, but it's NOT what Higgins would be teaching a guttersnipe!

Other than that, I think she does a pretty good job, and puts more feeling and life into her role than the poised Julie Andrews would have.

'the speech of an international sophisticate whose English is better than most native-speakers' and only faintly accented.'

That's the point of the song You Did It. At the ball she is thought to be a high born foreigner who speaks English as a second language beautifully better than a native speaker would. The irony is that she is a native born speaker of English. Cockney is English after all.

Minelli's film most probably would have been not good. His adaptations of hit Broadway musicals are for the most part very poor. Nobody considers Brigadoon, Kismet, Bells are Ringing and On a Clear Day among his better films. In fact they were all flops. Nobody even considers them unappreciated films in retrospect. He's as good as Francis Ford Coppola was making Finian's Rainbow.

My Fair Lady is visually dazzling. To complain about the colors is nuts. I can't even begin to know what you're talking about. It is a very beautifully designed film taking full advantage of Super Panavision 70.

[quote] I enjoy the film version of Pygmalion more. Wendy Hiller is terrific as Eliza and Leslie Howard is sexy AF as Professor Higgins.

I completely agree. I thought I'd love MFL because of the songs and the story but the film was pretty much a bore.

Pygmalion is so much better and Wendy Hiller is transcendent. I wonder if it's on YouTube.

I also love that wedding dress Anna Massey is wearing - 1958 wedding to Jeremy Brett. Reminiscent of Princess Margaret's in 1960 obviously different but similar style.

Couldn't find who designed Massey's gown but it was Norman Hartnell who did Princess Margaret's.

Here is snippet from 2011 DM article on her death - note what it says about husband Jeremy Brett:

Her father, Canadian actor Raymond Massey, walked out when Massey was one, and remained 'the glamorous film star who lived far away'.

Her mother, actress Adrianne Allen, delegated much of the childcare to a nanny.

Massey drafted in her own former nanny to look after her son David when her marriage to Brett - who is said to have left her for a man and went on to play TV's Sherlock Holmes - ended.

'I find acting incredibly difficult - it demands much more of my time than it does for some people. I'm not instinctive. It takes enormous discipline and bravery to get me there.'

But when the nanny died in 1965, Massey was on her way to a nervous breakdown and her hair turned white overnight.

She suffered from severe stage fright and anorexia, but continued to perform, often helped by pills.

Massey underwent psychoanalysis, saying later it was 'an absolute life-saver' and that without it she 'would probably have ended up in some clinic'.

Massey made her stage debut at the age of 18 in The Reluctant Debutante playing the lead.

Her film debut came three years later in Gideon's Day, directed by Ford, and she starred as the murderous cameraman's girlfriend in Michael Powell's Peeping Tom in 1960.

[quote]Minelli's film most probably would have been not good. His adaptations of hit Broadway musicals are for the most part very poor. Nobody considers Brigadoon, Kismet, Bells are Ringing and On a Clear Day among his better films. In fact they were all flops. Nobody even considers them unappreciated films in retrospect. He's as good as Francis Ford Coppola was making Finian's Rainbow.

Well, Cukor was not even usually a director of musicals - he only directed four. MFL and A Star Is Born are considered the good ones. Let's Make Love (with Marilyn Monroe) is pretty bad, and Les Girls, though pretty good, lost money, and only has a few numbers.

The point about hiring Minnelli was that he had directed Gigi, which was a huge success and won 9 Academy Awards, including Best Picture. It also (like MFL) had a score by Lerner and Loewe, and a screenplay by Loewe, and Andre Previn as musical director. Lerner wouldn't have wanted him as director if he didn't think he would have done as good a job as he had on Gigi.

The other point is that he had directed many famous musicals, like Cabin In The Sky, Meet Me In St. Louis, Ziegfeld Follies, The Pirate, The Band Wagon, and An American In Paris (another Best Picture winner). Cabin In The Sky (a hit) was adapted from a Broadway Musical, btw.

Kismet was a Broadway hit partly because it debuted during a newspaper strike - otherwise the critics probably would have murdered it. Minnelli turned the movie down, but was was forced into it because he was offered Lust For Life if he would direct Kismet first. Stanley Donen finished it when Minnelli left for France to direct the Van Gogh biopic.

Bells Are Ringing is very good - even if it wasn't a hit. The other two aren't great - but Minnelli had a good reputation as a director of film musicals - no one really had a better one.

Yes Cabin in the Sky was a hit but it was the only one. Nobody would deny he was a great director of movie musicals but when they were adapted from the stage he had his hands tied behind his back. Bells outside of capturing Judy Holliday's performance I find disappointing. Maybe it's the show itself. The whole subplot with the betting operation and the suspected prostitution is tedious and embarrassing.

[quote] Gigi, …huge success …9 Academy Awards… score by Lerner and Loewe… Andre Previn as musical director

Yes, yes. But that property was owned by MGM.

But Jacob L Warner purchased 'My Fair Lady' for an unprecedented $6.5 million in 1962. A tremendous amount of money.

We should be blaming Jacob L Warner for the film's faults. He was determined that nothing be cut. He was determined that George Cukor NOT film in London. (Ten years George Cukor made the charming 'Love Among the Ruins' on location in London; it made a pleasant freely-photographed film with Kate and Larry).

Jacob L Warner was determined to get down on the shooting stage floor constantly to check his multi-million dollar be not compromised. Because he wanted a prestige money-maker as his last film.

(He also MAY have suggested Jimmy Cagney as Dolittle—and that might have just worked!)

[quote]Yes, yes. But that property was owned by MGM.

So?

Minnelli and Cukor were both MGM directors for years, what's your point?

[quote] But Jacob L Warner purchased 'My Fair Lady' for an unprecedented $6.5 million in 1962. A tremendous amount of money.

No, he didn't. CBS put up the bulk of the money for the stage show to secure the original cast recording rights and therefore owned the film rights. CBS wasn't willing to sell the film rights outright but Jack Warner wanted to do the film so badly that he LICENSED the film rights for that amount for seven years. After that, the rights reverted back to CBS.

It was as unheard of an arrangement then as it would be now. Normally, if you want the film rights, you buy them outright and then they're yours. CBS wouldn't agree to that and Jack Warner wanted to do the film so much he went along with the unprecedented licensing arrangement.

Zorba the Greek was (and still is) much better than MFL.

The golden age was long over in 1964. Warner was mostly making movies with the likes of Troy Donahue by the late 50s.

The film seemed old fashioned to me when I saw it the first time and even more so later. It also seemed stagey in a bad way. Hepburn was too old for the part and was not a good singer but she had a certain charisma and girlish presence that worked pretty well.

Cathleen Nesbitt was a regular on "The Framer's Daughter" and the shooting schedule for MFL would have conflicted with when that sitcom was shooting.

Should be "The Farmer's Daughter"

By the way, Judy Holliday's character in Bells Are Ringing was based on a real person who worked for an answering service - Mary Prinz. A friend of mine's mom knew the woman who ran the service (the Jean Stapleton character in the movie).

One night, after a stage performance of My Fair Lady, an elderly woman was standing alone in the rain outside the stage door and asked for Rex Harrison's autograph.

Rex told her to "sod off", which so enraged the old woman she promptly rolled up her programme and hit him with it.

Fellow actor Stanley Holloway, who witnessed the scene, remarked that it was the first time "the fan has hit the s***!".

Rex and Henry Tudor had a lot in common. They were similarly tyrannical, both got through six wives, and both enjoyed fine dining.

The matrimonial death toll in both cases was impressive. Two of Rex's women - his lover, the actress Carole Landis, and wife number four, the actress Rachel Roberts - killed themselves.

He was often amorously involved with an ex-wife, a current wife and a lover at the same time.

Hardly a surprise, then, that he frequently got their names mixed up when making love to them.

In the case of Landis, goosebumps of horror erupt as you read the accounts of their fling in 1947. She was in her 20s and had already been married several times.

She was said to be great company, free with her favours, if a tad unstable. Rex homed in on her like a shark, although he was married to his second wife, Lilli Palmer, at the time.

The following year, realising the affair was going nowhere, Landis took an overdose. Rex found her when she was still alive but her pulse was very weak.

Instead of immediately calling an ambulance, he spent half an hour thumbing through her address book looking for her private doctor, in the hope of keeping a scandal at bay. By the time he had found it, it was too late.

Conversely, there was his heroic treatment of the bubbly actress Kay Kendall, best known for the film Genevieve, and with whom Harrison began a relationship with her on the set of The Constant Husband.

Kendall had leukaemia - a fact her doctor kept from her but he told Rex about.

Harrison and Lilli Palmer, his wife at the time, calmly agreed to divorce in 1957 (planning to later remarry) so he could marry Kendall who believed she had only anaemia.

Harrison then nursed her, protecting her from the truth to the last. Some people say she knew her fate all along, but they both found pretence the best way of coping. He was genuinely devastated by her death.

Rex was then married to Rachel Roberts from 1962 to 1971. Roberts was devastated by her divorce from Rex, and her alcoholism and depression worsened. She moved to Hollywood in 1975 and tried to forget the relationship. In 1980, Roberts attempted to win Harrison back. The attempt proved futile as Harrison was then married to his sixth and final wife, Mercia Tinker.

On 26 November 1980, Roberts died at her home in Los Angeles at the age of 53. Her death was initially attributed to a heart attack. Her gardener found her body on her kitchen floor, lying amidst shards of glass; she had fallen through a decorative glass divide between two rooms. An autopsy later determined that her death was a result of swallowing lye or another alkali, or another unidentified caustic substance, as well as barbiturates and alcohol, as detailed in her posthumously published journals. The corrosive effect of the alkali was the immediate cause of death. The coroner documented the cause of death as "swallowing a caustic substance" and, later, "acute barbiturate intoxication." Her death was ruled a suicide.

So, a question: why did these women completely lose their minds over this cad?

[quote] Minnelli and Cukor were both MGM directors for years, what's your point?

The point is that Minnelli and Cukor were both MGM directors "for years". But those aren't NOW in 1964. Jacob L Warner had the money NOW in 1964 and he had to choose someone safe to handle his multi-million property right NOW in 1964.

R125 That anecdote is mildly witty but I bet other people polished Holloway's outburst.

Stanley Holloway was an ungracious fellow (if not queer).

[quote] So, a question: why did these women completely lose their minds over this cad?

Dear R129, don't try to psychoanalyse women, they are a different species.

But also bear in mind two things. One; he was a wealthy box office star at the time. And two; much of this fervid gossip in this thread is second-hand,

[quote] He didn’t think he could do the part on film because he couldn’t sing

He sang here.

[quote]Hepburn was too old for the part and was not a good singer

Which may be why her singing wasn't used in the movie.

"Never marry an actress. They never stop acting."

Hear, hear!

It's a great musical and I sing all the parts.

[quote] Hepburn was too old for the part and was not a good singer

Are you talking about Audrey in MFL or Katherine in Coco?

[quote] Rex Harrison was an old fart sexist pig who contributed to the death of Carole Landis and cheated on all his wives

R12 Have you stayed faithful to your husband?

Be honest!

[quote]The golden age was long over in 1964. Warner was mostly making movies with the likes of Troy Donahue by the late 50s.

If Troy Donahue could be a movie star, then I could be a movie star.

If two women who were involved with Harrison committed suicide, it's not necessarily because he drove them to it, either because he was abusive or they loved him too much.

Some people are drawn to unstable partners, either because they love drama, they love feeling needed, or they like mindfucking people with no defenses. In Harrison 's case, I'd bet it's the last.

If 2 of his wives committed suicide...isn't murder more likely?

I've written this before and I'll write it again because there might happen to be one person who didn't read it. But then again maybe not.

When very young I went to see Claudette and Rex in The Kingfisher. Was it at the Barrymore? I brought my MFL movie program with me to have Rex sign it. I stood at the stage door the only person. Suddenly he came out flew by me into his waiting limo and closed the door. The window happened to be open so I quickly stuck the program in front of his face and handed him a pen. Instead of saying fuck off you little cunt! his face broadened into a smile and he started flipping through it. He then without a word signed the cover, handed it back to me and the car took off. Having no idea of his reputation at the time I certainly would have been thunderstruck if he had responded to me in his most Rex manner.

[quote] I quickly stuck the program in front of his face

How rude! You paid for a seat in theatre. You didn't pay for the right to invade an elderly man's private space.

Get Me to the Church on Time!

[quote]The window happened to be open so I quickly stuck the program in front of his face and handed him a pen. Instead of saying fuck off you little cunt! his face broadened into a smile and he started flipping through it. He then without a word signed the cover, handed it back to me and the car took off.

It would have been a cooler story if you had stuck the program in front of his face and handed him a pen, he closed the window and took off with it.

[quote] a cooler story

Yes, Dataloungers prefer rudeness and childish butchery.

I admit I was very rude and deserved to be called a cunt! It just happened so fast and I was determined to get his autograph on that program. My only excuse is that I was young. And basically rude.

^

Fair enough. I occasionally look back and ask myself was I as arrogant and thoughtless as today's millennials.

And I was, but only occasionally.

My ass is fresh n fragrant

[quote] Hepburn gives an iconic performance as Eliza

I think that's a misuse go the word 'iconic'.

I think she was adequate in the role but I say that all the blame must be laid upon Jack Warner (R118).

R127, my mother of all people told me that story of Rex and Kay Kendall. I wonder if his devotion to her was in some part enabled by the fact he knew there was an end date to their romance. These men aren't capable of real love - they just flirt with it in flings. They continue their antics because the women let them get away with it.

Lili Palmer married almost immediately after her divorce from Harrison to some handsome actor. They were married for almost 30 years when she died. He committed suicide 4 years later.

Wasn't Rachel Roberts well known for getting down on all fours and barking like a dog, in public?

I can't opne this Telegram article but I can get this much out of it -

Totally Uncontrollable: the tragic life of Hollywood's forgotten Welsh hellraiser . Jan 2, 2022 — Harrison eventually tired of the antics, which had exposed him to public humiliation – Roberts crawling around on all fours barking like a dog ... says she "shocked even Richard Burton".

^. No, R153, that anecdote is only shared between bitches and sozzled Datalounge queens.

R147

[quote] childish butchery.

childish bitchery

R157 replies and no talk of Wilfrid Hyde-White wow

I personally don’t see the appeal. It’s also Hepburn’s worst career performance, in my opinion.

I'll talk about Wilfrid Hyde-White. It's impossible not to like him in anything, but he doesn't seem at all like a British army Colonel who lived in India. Scott Sunderland, in Pygmalion, was very much that type. It seems like they got away from what the character was supposed to be all about. Hyde-White seems more like a fussy beaurocrat than a military man.

I read Lili Palmer's autobiography years ago. She said that when Kendall was diagnosed with Leukemia, which was totally incurable in those days, everyone pushed Harrison to marry Kendall and take care of her during the time she had left. He was reluctant, to put it politely, and continued to call his ex-wife Palmer and lean on her for emotional support, to the point where she felt horrifically burdened. She cut him off eventually, God knows what he did then, but I'd be very surprised if he didn't make Kendall's life a misery, like he did with all his women.

Kendall was a delight to watch, BTW, one of those rare performers who radiated charm and humor! It's such a pity she only made a few films, and that the only watchable one is "Les Girls".

LOVE Kay Kendall in The Reluctant Debutante, directed by Vincente Minnelli and starring Rex, Sandra Dee, hot young John Saxon and a pre-Mame Angela Lansbury as....what else? a bitch. All DLers should know this film.

Will no one here speak of the ghastly opening credits?

Even as a young gayling brought into Manhattan by my parents to see the film at its reserved seat engagement at the now demolished Criterion Theater on Broadway, I was immediately put off by the those boring and inert photos of floral bouquets during the incredibly heart-stopping overture. What a lazy concept, I thought to myself.

[quote] just another film about the misogyny of gay men gentrifying the poor, fetishizing minorities, and causing them to become fully dependent upon them then abandoning them when the novelty has worn off...

Yes, just another one of those films. They make one every 5 minutes.

[quote] boring and inert photos of floral bouquets

R162 You may not be aware that the first scene occurs in one of the few places that rich people would get into close proximity with the poor. The London opera house is situated next to the Covent Garden Flower Market.

The socialist playwright engineered this juxtaposition to create his socialistic message-play.

I'm on the fence about this movie. Audrey and Rex are outstanding but the movie falls flat in the middle part when it should have soared during the ball sequence. Marni Nixon's voice, which fit Deborah Kerr beautifully in The King and I, is completely out of place on Audrey. But Rex' acting is superb and Audrey Hepburn is at her most delicious especially in the Ascot scene.

Is it just me or does Audrey look like the mum from Mary Poppins in the OP's screencap?

Yeah, I was totally aware of that, even back in 1964. Nevertheless, those flower photos were a cheap and lazy idea for the opening credits., not conveying anything of the class differences at Convent Garden or much of anything else.

^ No.

[quote] the movie falls flat in the middle part

Blame Jacob L Warner. He refused to allow any cuts in his million-dollar purchase.

[quote] those flower photos were a cheap and lazy idea for the opening credits

AJ Lerner's luscious, dreamy overture lasts 3 minutes.

That's funny because I think the opening credits are among the best I've seen. I love the fact that it sets the mood beautifully. The photos are gorgeous. I believe they are by Beaton. And as one photo turn into the next it looks almost like the flowers are blooming. Previn conducts the overture masterfully. Another masterstroke is the credits don't begin until about the soaring 'and oh that towering feeling' of On the Street Where You Live with the Warner Brothers' logo appearing. The problem today is that the negative for the sequence has been lost or it decayed too much so that what you seen now including on the magnificent 4k (where the movie itself is so visually beautiful it looks like stained glass by Tiffany) is a grainy fifth generation copy.

Scorsese's "The Age of Innocence" credits went for the full on blooming flowers. I love both.

I'd never seen that before but it seems a tribute to Minnelli, Cukor and it was so long that I read the book but isn't one of the last lines about not having the flower of life?

"Something he knew he had missed: the flower of life. But he thought of it now as a thing so unattainable and improbable that to have repined would have been like despairing because one had not drawn the first prize in a lottery. There were a hundred million tickets in his lottery, and there was only one prize; the chances had been too decidedly against him."

Vincente Minnelli acted very very gay, however in real life he was obsessed with huge, pointed female breasts. He drew and painted them all the time, there were hundreds of them and they were well done from an artistic standpoint, but strange. Lisa got them after he died and sold them at auction a few years ago. She was very proud of her father's talent. On another note, my partner's family lived in Vincente Minnelli's home in Beverly Hills, i used to sleep in his bedroom when I visited. His parents knew Judy well and they used to socialize and went to the same parties. She usually sang and loved being the center of attention. They said she was always up and the life of the party. They learned about her problems from the press.

[quote]AJ Lerner's luscious, dreamy overture lasts 3 minutes.

That would be Frederick Loewe's lush, dreamy overture.

I'm not finding any paintings of his, r174, with big pointed boobs.

Julie Andrews as Eliza.

Cary Grant as Henry Higgins.

William Frawley as Alfred P. Doolittle

Vivian Vance as Eliza.

Desi Arnez as Higgins

Lucy as Mrs. Pearce

William Frawley as Pickering

Jackie Gleason as Higgins Audrey Meadows as Eliza Art Carney as Pickering

Dawn Wells as Eliza

Jim Backus as Henry Higgins

Alan Hale Jr as Dolittle

Russell Johnson as Pickering

Here:

Natalie Schafer as Mrs Higgins

R181 Of course.

Upon the death of Gladys Cooper, I believe some great British wag (was it Noel Coward?) said" No worries, we still have Cathleen Nesbitt."

IIRC, both ladies show up in those wonderful old Roddy McDowall Malibu home movies from the summer of 1965, though not together.

R183 what do you mean by 'of course' ?

R185, we all know , because we're all thinking the same thing.

R184 jokes on him. Estelle Winwood outlived them all!

*3* GIRLS *3*

Nesbitt and Cooper in Separate Tables (1958).

I forget where I read it but some guy wrote about bagging groceries for Gladys Cooper in Malibu or Trancas Beach or one of those places in the 60s, said she was fit and tanned and wearing shorts, and was very nice.

Trash movie. Julie Andrews always said it was her biggest regret that posterity wouldn't be able to see a recorded performance of her as Eliza.

Audrey Hepburn couldn't act her way out of a paper bag. To this day, this stands as one of the biggest miscastings in Hollywood history.

Why didn't anyone think to film any of the great Broadway shows - I mean, just placing a couple of cameras somewhere in the theater. Nothing filmic, just record it. Anything would have been ok. How short sighted. Likewise, they could have taped whole performances (audio). It's hard to believe more wasn't done in an era when there was the ability to do it.

[quote]To this day, this stands as one of the biggest miscastings in Hollywood history.

And it will continue to stand until Beanie Feldstein is cast in the movie remake.

R191 I believe there were union rules which would have forbidden it. Somehow they got around it, how I don't know, in London where they filmed the stage production of South Pacific. It was unseeable for a long time. People were passing around tapes of Metropolitan opera performances for the longest time and yet it was all done in (open) secrecy because it was illegal. They were called pirates with good reason. It was considered theft. Likewise if those filmed performances started being passed around it would have been theft of all the work done by those involved with the production and unions would not stand for it.

R193. Thanks, that's interesting. I'm surprised, though, that they could not have been filmed/recorded for non-commercial purposes, i. e. just for preservation.

Cary Grant might have made a brilliant Higgins, except for one thing.

Yes, he was Cary Grant, and could play Higgins's thoughtlessness and selfishness to peerless comic effect, and imbued the character with a charm, energy, and charisma that few actors would match, and which put over the end of the musical (not the end of the original play). But... well.... there was his... accent. The odd, "mid-Atlantic", part-Cockney-part-American accent which didn't sound like a teacher of elocution, and didn't sound like anyone else, the accent which Grant didn't seem to be able to shed. The only film I ever saw of his where he didn't have that odd accent were a couple where he played the Cockney he'd been when he was young, he didn't seem able to assume the plummy Oxford of a highly-educated Edwardian professor. Pity about that.

Leslie Howard's accent and voice sound like the perfect Higgins to me. Stern but not ice cold.

Howard was a terrific Higgins! Every bit of the thoughtlessness, rudeness, and obnoxiousness, tempered with a restless intelligence and energy, and good looks and sex appeal! I had only seen Leslie Howard play a weenie in "GWTW" while being too old for the role, so I had no idea he had it in him, but he's the single best Higgins I've ever seen.

R197 when did you see Leslie Howard live?

He died when his plane got shot down by germans! Omg..

R196 Makes sense considering he played him in the film version of Pygmalion

Leslie was able to make a more affable Higgins because he wasn't encumbered by all the songs and production numbers.

Jeremy Brett was hot

Was Leslie Howard gay in real life? Or was he playing a gay Higgins who did love Eliza romantically?

Cary Grant never had a Cockney accent. He was was born and raised in Bristol.

Jeremy Brett was gay

Rex Harrison was a pretentious asshole

Wilfrid Hyde-White was a gentleman

Stanley Holloway was a funny ass

The movie was perfectly cast....

George Bernard Shaw wrote the part of Eliza in Pygmalion for Mrs. Patrick Campbell.

Rex Harrison kisses Audrey Hepburn so many times here.

And Mrs. Patrick Campbell was 49 at the time Shaw wrote Eliza for her. The 18 year old Eliza.

And despite creating the roles didn't she and the original Higgins think Shaw's ending was shit?

Rex Harrison was marvelous in every sense except in the fact that he lacked any sex appeal whatsoever, which killed any possible sexual tension that might have existed between him and Eliza.

R181 That is so ridiculous.

Sexy Rexy lacked sex appeal? It seems a lot of women would disagree with you. The streets were lined with women killing themselves over him.

He wasn't sexy in My Fair Lady.

He was...prickly.

Henry Higgins was almost asexual though. That is the point. He changed for her too.

In his lengthy and fervent introduction to the play, Shaw does indeed seem to think of Prof. Higgins as asexual, talks about how his mother was so fabulous and had made such a lovely home that no other woman could compare. (!!) Frankly, there seems to be more than a bit of Shaw in Higgins, and we still don't know what the hell was going on with Shaw sexually.

But Leslie Howard proved that Higgins could be played as a man with a bit of sex appeal, and one could see why an Eliza might choose to stay with him after all. The same was not true of Harrison, who looked about sixty when he made the film, and who played Higgins with maximum rudeness and arrogance, and zero sex appeal. When Hiller's Eliza comes back to Howard's Higgins she's accepting a difficult but possibly rewarding relationship, when Hepburn's Eliza comes back to Harrison's Higgins she's taking the path of least resistance. And presumably counting the hours until widowhood.

R43 Thank you! I did not know this excited. Going to listen to the full album on Spotify now.

What a cast! Kiri Te Kanawa, Jeremy Irons, Warren Mitchell, Jerry Hadley, and Sir John Gielgud!!!

[quote]Thank you! I did not know this excited.

It seems to excite *you*, OP.

I think Audrey was not fiery enough. Julie Andrews had a lot of fire in Just You Wait, Show Me, and Without You.

Eliza's Julie could really ruin your life and I think Higgins respected that in his weird way.

Audrey's Eliza just seemed too sweet.

Audrey Hepburn showed great class in appearing at the Oscars even though she'd been very publicly snubbed by the nominators. And I can only guess that Rex winning the Oscar was a foregone conclusion if they had Audrey present the Best Actor Oscar that year.

In hindsight, however, it seems unlikely that Julie would win for Mary Poppins, but the sympathy vote (for her losing the role of Eliza) was still very strong when the voting commenced.

Julie Andrews was awesome in Mary Poppins and that film was great. She was the favorite to win that year. Her competition had no chance (and Anne Bancroft and Sophia Loren were recent winners).

A crapfest. No one sang their own vocals except Rex, who didn't sing, he spoke.

Julie Andrews was the favorite to win. Especially with Walt Disney pushing for her, the same way he got James Baskett an honorary Oscar for Song of the South.

My guess is that Debbie Reynolds was probably the runner-up since she had never been awarded at that point. It would be her only nomination.

R221 Wilfrid Hyde-White sang his songs

He was dubbed by Annette Warren, r223.

It was India Adams!!

Only when Wilfrid was in Creole-face, r225.

Two middle-aged confirmed bachelor's dressing Audrey Hepburn in Edith Head gowns. GAY!

[quote]Two middle-aged confirmed bachelor's dressing Audrey Hepburn in Edith Head gowns. GAY!

Turn in your gay card, r227.

Gen ZZZZ, is that you? R102

That's why I signed it like I did R229. They fucked that up.

I did love the Will Truman review of Frankenstein though.

I liked it better when I was younger, I think it's a fairly exhausting movie now. The best actor was the one who played Eliza's father. Harrison just shouts his way through it and Hepburn really isn't convincing as a Cockney flower girl.

My bad, r230.

[quote] Shaw worked hard to protect Eliza's integrity in not allowing her to end up with Higgins, which I think, as others have mentioned should be the ending of the musical. Eliza could have left the house

We demand "boy meets girl boy loses girl boy gets girl back"

[quote] I'd never seen that before but it seems a tribute to Minnelli, Cukor and it was so long that I read the book but isn't one of the last lines about not having the flower of life?

R172 Which book are you talking about?

[quote] "boy meets girl boy loses girl boy gets girl back

And that's why we like this show.

And that's we didn't like others shows taken from George Bernard Shaw, such as this one—

The 1937 version starring Wendy Hiller and Leslie Howard is a brilliant witty and light comedy expertly directed by the fastidious homosexual named Anthony Asquith.

When Asquith came to make George Bernard Shaw's 'The Millionairess' he was obliged to ruthlessly cut Shaw's unwieldy, sententious script.

[quote]The best actor was the one who played Eliza's father.

If you don't mind the fact that "Get Me to the Church on Time" seems to take up half of a very long movie.

r153 I don't remember anything like that at all. - Tony Randall

r209 Harrison HAD sex appeal in this film, it was Hepburn who was, for all intents and purposes, asexual, IMHO.

Gladys Cooper was a real trouper. Always the grande dame from MFL to the bitch on wheels in "Now, Voyager" to playing the mother in "The Rogues" TV series. Would have loved to have seen her on stage. A stunning beauty in her youth as that photo above attests.

The casting was spot on, except for Hepburn. I feel she was in over her head in the part, she just never seemed to be comfortable in the role. Have seen a few clips of Julie Andrews as Eliza on Broadway and she was fine, but I don't know if her style would've worked well in this film. Too forceful a character. Props to Audrey who had that touch of subservience that was needed in the part.

Harrison's 'speak singing' or whatever the technical term is was perfect for the role. Higgins was a no-nonsense character, at least until Eliza showed up, so him speaking and singing as he did was most appropriate.

R235, The Chocolate Soldier (1941) throws out the Shaw plot, instead borrowing the plot of the Ferenc Molnár play The Guardsman.

R237 I agree Alfred Doolittle was tedious but Wilfred Lawson playing the same role in better 1937 version wasn't quite so annoying.

But George Bernard Shaw wanted to make some point about "Middle class morality" which I didn't quite understand. I wonder if Middle class morality is supposed to be similar to Charles Dickens' 'Telescopic Philanthropy' and the current 'Virtue-Signalling'?

Everybody who sees the 4k loves it. Even young video nerds who would most probably prefer watching Sci fi and action films. It's a great film beautifully designed and excellently acted with everyone at their peak Even Robert Harris who restored not only this film but Vertigo, Lawrence, and Spartacus loves it. Your gay cards are hereby invalidated.

Dame Sybil Thorndyke as Mrs. Higgins.

1883-1976

Although she was American, Verna Felton would have been good as Mrs. Higgins.

1890-1966

Of course Dame Judith Anderson could have been Mrs. Higgins. A little young, but Anderson was born 60.

1897-1992.

Ethel Barrymore, if she wasn't dead, would have been a great Mrs. Higgins.

Hepburn would have been better opposite Peter O’Toole or Cary Grant as Higgins. Zero chemistry with Harrison.

R246 Harrison was the only reason to watch the thing. Are people really serious? Cary Grant?

Julie Andrews, Rex Harrison and James Cagney as Dolittle.

Although Hepburn and Cary Grant would have looked beautiful together.

R248 Well they did Charade the previous year, so you'll always have Paris.

Replacing Rex Harrison is crazy when he was the only good thing about the movie. R246 must be a crazy Audrey loon, trying to make the movie work to accommodate her when the only miscasting here is her. Replace her with Julie Andrews and everything works out fine.

R250 Couldn't have said it better myself.

Now, R246, have you seen this?

[quote] … Judith Anderson could have been Mrs. Higgins. A little young, but Anderson was born 60…

Not true, R246, one upon a time Judith was young and almost as pretty as Streisand. There are pictures of her as a flapper in a pageboy bob.

R253 Yes, in 1805

No, 1924.

Cecil trying to diplomatic when analysing Hepburn's 'funny face' in 1963.

[quote] “Her facial features show character rather than prettiness: the bridge of the nose seems almost too narrow to carry its length, which flares into a globular tip with nostrils startlingly like a duck’s bill. Her wide mouth has a cleft under her lower lip, too deep for classical beauty, and the delicate chin appears even smaller by contrast to the exaggerated width of her jaw bones. Seen at the full, the outline of her face is perhaps too square; yet she intuitively tilts her head with a restless and perky asymmetry…It is a rare phenomenon to find a young girl with such inherent ‘star quality’…and it is no rash judgment to say she is one of the most interesting public embodiments of our new feminine ideal.”

[quote]It is a rare phenomenon to find a young girl with such inherent ‘star quality’

A young girl? In 1963 she was 34.

R96 terrible cast

R96 Why is Estelle Winwood "American"?

Mrs. Pat...

Brussels now has its own Scary Audrey statue.

Somebody get that statue a sandwich!

R261 I like it!

The song “ A Hymn to Him” in the second act reportedly came from a conversation that Rex Harrison had with Lerner when Rex said “Alan, wouldn’t it be marvelous if we were homosexuals”. Higgins and Pickering hanging out together in that fabulous house with fussy Mrs Pearce are such a couple of old queens. Mrs Higgins’ line at the end of the Ascot sequence says it all. “You’re a pretty pair of babies playing with your live doll!” Great line.

The opening credits are wonderful and very innovative. Andre Previn’s rendition of one of the best Broadway overtures ever written was inspired and waiting until the soaring part of “On the Street Where You Live” to discretely show the famous WB logo was very clever and subtle. It displayed the iconic logo while maintaining the elegant opening.

I already wrote that quite a while ago when people were trashing the credits R265 and calling them dull and without imagination. If you like the film so much you would have read the entire thread. And if you did read it you should have said something like 'as a previous poster noted.'

I also noted that what you see now is sadly 5th generation from the original negative. The photos were so much more beautiful.

What's innovative about starting the credits late? A lot of movies did that in those days. And there's nothing innovative about a lot of color photos of flowers. Saul Bass, it ain't.

Fuck flowers, give me...baubles.

A lot of movies back then did not start their credits late. What movies are you talking about?

Earl Grant sounds very much like Nat King Cole.

WSS

The fashion for late titles started in the late 50s.

The latest Bond movie starts the titles 23 minutes after the movie starts.

[quote]A lot of movies back then did not start their credits late. What movies are you talking about?

As R273 says, many films of the later 50's (into the 60s) started this way - it was something 20th Century-Fox did quite a bit. One example I can think of is The Long Hot Summer (1958) where there's a scene of a barn is shown catching on fire and burning (Paul Newman's character is supposed to be a "barn burner" in the South) prior to the opening credits. The Opposite Sex (1956) from MGM begins with a sequence before the credits (see below).

^Nice to see those titles with Joan Collins...still with us and still a celebrity. And for me, seeing Jeff Richard's name up there...I had some fun times with him...

WSS was unusual in that the credits came at the end of the film.

R275 You had some fun times with this hunk?

R276 As they did with Citizen Kane. And Act Of Violence (1948).

R277 Yep.

Do tell us more, R275, R279.

Were you dancing or romancing?

Were you sipping cocktails at the Coconut Grove or was it all 'on the downlow"?

[quote] Why is Estelle Winwood "American"?

My Mom loved her "The Producers". She was born in England in 1883! And she lived to 101! All the firsts she must have seen through out her life. She always seemed old, even when she wasn't.

[quote] Why is Estelle Winwood "American"?

Because she abandoned her people and her heritage to loll around in La La Land. Just like Gladys.

R277 You cannot leave us hanging like that. Spill.

R283 NYC. 1970s. His early 50s. Rather down on his luck. Handsome, very manly. Talked a lot about his baseball career. I was young and cute. He liked to just lay there.

What was innovative about the MFL credits?

I always hated them.

Because you have no taste.

Jeff Richards died of AIDS-related complications in 1989.

But I thought he played baseball.

R287 Do you have a link to that?

To see what a beauty he was in his prime, go to 1:12

He didn't really look all that much different when I knew him.

^

Wow, he was gorgeous.