Gay brother of king Louis XIV TV show Versailles

Some scenes.

There was a long history of rivalries among French kings or direct heir to throne and siblings or other male members of blood royal. Let's just say the Bourbon men didn't always get along as family.... This played out right to the end where another Duke of Orleans voted in favor of executing is cousin king Louis XVI of France and Navarre.

Anne of Austria, Queen of France and Navarre and mother to Louis XVI and Phillipe I, Duke of Orleans encouraged and by all accounts gladly welcomed her youngest son's homosexuality or bisexuality as it were. Is effeminacy and busying himself with "other" pursuits meant the Duke of Orleans gave his brother little trouble in terms coups, plots and other intrigues.

From Wiki....

"In order to discourage the type of tempestuous relationship that had developed between Louis XIII and his younger brother Gaston, Anne of Austria and Cardinal Mazarin made it a private policy to prevent Philippe from pursuing ambitions which might prompt rivalry with or defiance of the king. Aside from his appanage, he was given no meaningful financial freedom from the Crown.[21] Later, to his already rich holdings Philippe wanted to add the countship of Blois, with its Château de Chambord, and the governorship of Languedoc, but both would be refused him by his brother.[21]"

[quote] The actors are handsome, but acting is not sensational, Duke has always the mix of surprise and spite on his face. The story is somehow thin.

Watched this when it was first airing, and gave up halfway through because I got so irked with the noticeably poor blocking of shots, the cheesy basic dialogue, the limited acting on display (I call it ‘cosplay style’ acting), and the glaring contradictions in the plot (historical license in fiction or adaptation is fine, but at least be consistent...). And the horrid wigs. All these missteps and shortcuts and pitfalls make the show impossible to enjoy.

Was a piteous waste of gorgeous locations/sets, gowns, and faces.

R2 Poor Philippe. Seems that he was quite a competition to his brother since he was the brave one, warrior etc In the show it was shown that the soldiers who were rebelling had more confidence in him than in the king. So Louis might have been content that he had this "failure" which is his same sex attraction and strong bonding with his male lover.

I don't know if it is historically accurate, but in the show it was shown that, after Chevalier was arrested as part of group of noble men complotting against the king and should have been executed, that the king set him free as an generous act of love toward his brother who was desperate. But maybe it was for self preservation. Perhaps he didn't want his brother turning against him but rather make him grateful and it was better keeping him occupied with Chevalier.

R3 "And the horrid wigs"

You didn't like the Iron Maiden hairstyle? Obviously not a heavy metal fan like myself.

I've tried to give the show a chance multiple times but it really is a snooze fest. Also, any court of Versailles is not going to be a topic for a show on a shoe-string budget. This show looks far too cheap with empty palace rooms, bad clothes, the wigs, and inaccurate clothing for the women. If you can't do upper class 117-8th century France justice, then damnit don't do a Louis XIV show.

R6 I would even turn a blind eye, if the script, directing and acting was good.

It only has handsome actors in main roles, but otherwise...

But I was intrigued by these two, Duke and Chevalier, but their scenes weren't granche neither.

And such hot guys, pity.

And the king is fucking his ten mistresses all over the place, but these two are mainly sulking.

I agree r7. It's all so low energy as well. The time lines make little sense. There was a version of Borgia from the UK or something that was also on a tight budget but the storyline remained interesting as hell up to a certain character's death. This show doesn't even come close. I think the Borgia show is on Netflix not to be confused with the one on Showtime.

He's straight, but I kinda like Alexander Vlahos. He's not classically handsome, but I find him quite attractive nevertheless.

His Big Finish audio drama series The Confessions of Dorian Gray is really good by the way.

Where were you when this show came out? There have been countless topics on this show. Use the search function you fool! No one cares you just discovered this show.

[quote]If you can't do upper class 117-8th century France justice,

Oh Dear!!

Still trying desperately to get my head round the fact that 2015 counts as ‘the past’ and that shows from that time are how ‘old’.

Time is speeding up, swear down...

R13 Obviously you care, since you felt the need to write a comment.

I made it to the end of first season and I think it is enough.

strange....I watched the whole series twice and I really liked it. Glad I am not looking for all the things you people look for and was able to just enjoy it for the entertainment.

I loved it but, like The Tudors which I also loved, I wasn’t looking for a history lesson. Both shows were fun with lots of cute guys and cunty women.

[quote]I had better things to do in pre covid times when it was aired.

List them or it never happened OP.

The actor playing the younger brother should have played Louis. The actor playing Louis had no charisma or acting ability, and the whole show revolved around him.

The actor who played Louis was in the West End COMPANY singing Another Hundred People.

The gay couple reminds me of Page and Plant of Zeppelin.

R20 You don't believe in my evening Ikebana classes?

[quote] And the king is fucking his ten mistresses all over the place, but these two are mainly sulking.

They looked DOWN their noses at us. OP's pic is inaccurate.

The upper classes have never really had to obey "the rules" and the lowest couldn't afford to.

It's the bourgeoisie that struggle and strain for all of that to maintain their "dignity" and social standing in the pecking order.

For some historical context, Louis XIV happen to be with his brother (Philippe) on his last night alive. Upon meeting, the brothers wen't straight into a Real Housewives Reunion style argument. Philippe's son had married his cousin, Louis XIV's daughter, long ago as the King "suggested". Philippe was upset that his son wasn't granted certain war honors. Louis said it was because he flaunted his mistress around at court, disrespecting his wife/the king's daughter. Philippe countered that his son only did that same thing Louis did to his first wife. Louis wasn't having but both men were going back and forth but hilariously stopped arguing because dinner was ready. They sat down to dinner politely going through the grand motions of a private royal feast, simmering with rage.

Philippe left that evening to have another meal but at his son's palace. He had a heart attack and fell into his son's lap. Louis was devastated when he heated the news, noting that he could never speak to his beloved brother again. Also notable that Philippe was one of the few people that could dare argue with Louis. I'm sure it was lonely losing the closest thing he had to a peer or extreme male confidant.

In a twist of fait, Philippe line of decedents end up being the very last Kings of France after Louis' line shits the bed with Louis XVI, regains ground with Louis XVIII, then predictably shits the bed again with Charles X. All three of the kings I mentioned are from the same generation of brothers. Only Louis XVIII learned from his family's mistakes and was able to hold the nation together under the crown.

Philippe's dependent Louis Philippe I is the last king of France. He was only successful thanks to his shrewd sister who snatched the crown from the absolutists idiot, Charles X and his son. But once Louis Philippe's sister died, his primary advisor made a major blunder that lead to the final downfall of monarchies in France.

Convenience of bad weather also lead to feeble Louis XIII fucking the Queen due to a rainstorm after years of childless marriage. A GWTW style accident with horse killed Louis XVI's older bother. A young man much more assertive and possible better suited to rule.

French had some terrible luck from Louis XIII onward.

It's basically the William and Harry story if Harry was a sniveling gay cunt who knows he'll never be his brother instead of a sniveling straight cunt who knows he'll never be his brother.

Not even close r29, because Louis and Philippe were always close in an "us vs the world" type of way. Harry and William never struck me as close. A brother's bond, but clearly not really strong friends. I doubt they'd really consider either of them as their best friend. Louis would have considered Philippe to be one of his best friends, if he would make such a claim.

While Louis was jealousy of his brother's military feats, I doubt Will was ever jealous of Harry's service.

On the flip side, Louis would have cut a bitch if the press dared to attack his brother the way the press attacks Harry. Louis and Philippe also enjoyed each other's company, the King and Prince would continually hangout beyond royal engagements. Harry and William would rarely even go to bars or clubs together and they are only 2 years (?) apart. We know both men liked to party. Harry said, Will (being a typical older brother, so no shade) paid him dust at school. My brother did the same, it's typical. My brother and I are also not close as best friends.

So there is nothing comparable to these two sets of royal brothers. Louis and Philippe were always close. Harry and William never seemed all that close as brothers/friends. They played nice for the cameras but William, Harry, and Charles all seem to do their own thing. Louis only had Philippe once their beloved mother died.

Louis and Phillippe's history is interesting. Louis's mother, Anne of Austria, was 37 when he was born. She's been married to Louis XIII for more than 20 years with nothing but stillbirths to show for their procreative efforts. She finally gave birth to the healthy Louis and then two years later gave birth to Phillippe. I guess the pump had been primed!

Louis VIII was basically deformed, sickly, and the last person you'd want to fuck. Though, the Queen was game to make it work, the King put in nearly no effort which allowed his brother (who did attempt a coup) to gain influence. Anne of Austria actually did what Marie Antoinette did, had fun and looked fabulous since a Queen without kids doesn't really have much else to do. After a couple of years she became almost an after thought to the court till she became pregnant. Then the King died while Louis was young. A coup attempt nearly occurred. I forget the details but Paris was involved. Either way, like Marie, Anne became much more serious once her children were born. But she did fuck up Phillippe by making him act feminine to avoid future conflict with Louis. Makes since since Louis's uncle nearly had them all taken out via a revolt by some nobles.

Anne of Austria would have declared Phillippe trans if she was a parent today. Just get it over with at 3 years of age or something. The bitch was a bit nutty about her second son.

Louis XIII* not Louis VIII

I understand her thinking, odd as her choices were. She wanted to make sure that nothing came between Louis and the throne. You could argue she succeeded, as Louis and Phillippe were always close and the younger brother never tried to usurp the elder. Anne was even lucky enough that her younger son was still fairly intelligent and a good soldier: Had disease or accident taken Louis out, Phillippe would have been a decent king despite his weird upbringing. That's not always true of spares.

Anne's birth history makes me wonder if Louis XIII was really the father of her two sons. Wouldn't be the first time that a Queen called upon a strapping nobleman to sub in for a King who was unable or unwilling to perform his procreative duties.

But I have read that in the past it wasn't so rare to dress boys as girls while they were little.

There was a story that Oscar Wilde mother fucked him up because she was dressing him as a girl, because she wanted a daughter. But the historians said that it wasn't unusual, because lots of boys were dressed in girly dresses. And Wilde's mother did have a daughter, three years younger than him.

Seems that Hemingway mother did the same and it was the beginning of 20th century.

R35 I also think that the Queen sought help elsewhere, because after all these years of failing she gave birth to to boys in couple of years. Seems that some noble man sacrificed himself, like in the case of Catherine the Great of Russia, whose husband didn't want to have sex with her, so she allegedly found a young officer.

It's also fairly well accepted by historians that some of Marie Antoinette's younger children weren't her husband's, either.

Infant and toddler boys wore skirts up until the early 20th century for a very simple reason: Toilet training. It was much easier for them to make it to the potty on time when they had an open garment rather than shorts or trousers, especially given the difficult fastenings of pants back then (no zippers until the early 20th century). Once the little boy had full control of his bladder and bowels, he was 'breeched' and got to start dressing in line with his gender.

Subbing in an unrelated nobleman was really the best thing one could do for those inbred royal gene pools. Sometimes it even happened with the King's tacit permission. The very fun pop-history Sex with the Queen talked about one very gay king (I think it was Portugal) who encouraged his wife to find a nobleman to fuck her. He adored the ensuring son and heir because it got him off the hook without having to go near the Queen's nether parts.

Here are some Duke's second wife impressions of her married life. Seems like this is how gay men struggled in marriage:

Perhaps because his new partner was a robust, rather masculine woman, Monsieur managed to procreate. With Madame Henriette, very feminine and a flirt, it had been harder. Even so, the fact that the second marriage produced three children was rather remarkable. Monsieur clearly found sexual intercourse with women difficult and had to resort to the mediation of higher powers to accomplish his aim. Madame confided much later that Monsieur always brought to bed a rosary hung with holy medals, in order to say his prayers. One night she heard a great rattling of medals under the blanket and asked what he was doing; on his refusal to tell her she got up and shone the nightlight into the bed. Monsieur was clutching his rosary to his private parts. `You do not persuade me at all, Monsieur,' she said, `that you are honouring the Virgin by placing her image on those parts destined to relieve virginity.' Monsieur had the grace to laugh and begged her not to tell anyone; she apparently kept her word for forty years.

There is an air of affectionate complicity about this story; and at the beginning, despite the obvious difficulties, Monsieur and Madame did not get along too badly. There was one more child after Philippe, a girl born in 1676, named Elisabeth-Charlotte. Then the couple retired to separate beds, much to the relief of both parties. `When Monsieur slept in my bed,' Madame wrote to Sophie many years later, `I was always obliged to lie on the very edge, and often fell out in my sleep. Monsieur couldn't bear to be touched, and if I stretched out my foot and accidentally brushed against him in my sleep he would wake me up and berate me for half an hour. Really, I was very glad when he decided to sleep in his own room and let me lie peacefully without fear of falling out or being scolded.'

Monsieur had found his great love in Philippe de Lorraine-Armagnac, chevalier de Lorraine. The chevalier was beautiful, `fait comme on peint les anges', utterly corrupt, and had ruled Monsieur from the late 1660s. At the Palais-Royal Monsieur appeared in public dressed as a woman, in decolletage and earrings, led out to the minuet by the chevalier. The chevalier de Lorraine controlled Monsieur and his favours; the two Philippes would be a couple until death.

Allegedly Duke was not allowed to have marital life with his first wife or he found a good excuse:

Monsieur had even told Madame that he could never love her without the Chevalier’s permission, and the permission was not forthcoming.

Saint-Simon comments that the prince’s lifelong favourite, the Chevalier de Lorraine, ‘led Monsieur around by force all his life’ and ‘was loaded with money and benefices…always remaining publically the master in Monsieur’s house-hold’.

About King’s attitude towards his brother's homosexuality:

Furthermore, there is evidence that Louis used the relationship between the two men to manipulate his brother and maintain his loyalty. In 1672 Madame Sévigné recounted to her daughter that when the Chevalier was permitted to return from an exile in Rome (imposed after he criticized the king), Louis said to Philippe ‘I am giving him back to you, and want you to be obliged to me for your whole life’.

Maybe one day we’ll get a well executed of Versailles in French.. Oh wait..

There are three well told documentaries about this already.

“The Sun King” 🌞

Far far better than that joke of a series…

[quote] But I have read that in the past it wasn't so rare to dress boys as girls while they were little.

It was quite common in many households that children would wear the clothes of their older siblings who grew out of them. Maybe not full on skirts, but shirts, pullovers, trousers, shoes, etc.

R38 I’ve never heard that. Louis Xvi was easily able to get her pregnant once his foreskin issue was fixed. It was too tight and made erections painful. After that, the two finally fucked and had the children. But I’ve never heard the MA thing as anything more than gossip from her enemies.

Interesting story about the King and his brother and brother’s lover Chevalier. Seems that Chevalier was exiled once again, at age of 39 for having seduced the 15 years old illegitimate King’ son and initiating him in the practice of Le vice Italien or The Italian vice. The boy was exiled to Normandy and then sent to war in Flanders where he fell ill and died at the age of 16. King was not as tolerant with his son’s as he was with his brother’s homosexuality.

But seems that Chevalier was irresistible to whole family.

And he was not just a court nelly as described in the shallow tv show. Like his lover he was a warrior, too.

From Saint Simon's journal on the moments after Philippe's death

At the departure from St. Cloud of the King, all the crowd assembled there little by little withdrew, so that Monsieur dying, stretched upon a couch in his cabinet, remained exposed to the scullions and the lower officers of the household, the majority of whom, either by affection or interest, were much afflicted. The chief officers and others who lost posts and pensions filled the air with their cries; whilst all the women who were at Saint Cloud, and who lost their consideration and their amusement, ran here and there, crying, with dishevelled hair, like Bacchantes. The Duchesse de la Ferme, who had basely married her daughter to one of Monsieur’s minions, named La Carte, came into the cabinet; and, whilst gazing on the Prince, who still palpitated there, exclaimed, giving vent to her profound reflections, “Pardi! Here is a daughter well married!” “A very important matter!” cried Chatillon, who himself lost everything by this death. “Is this a moment to consider whether your daughter is well married or not?” Madame, who had never had great affection or great esteem for Monsieur, but who felt her loss and her fall, meanwhile remained in her cabinet, and in the midst of her grief cried out, with all her might, “No convent! Let no one talk of a convent! I will have nothing to do with a convent!” The good Princess had not lost her judgment. She knew that, by her compact of marriage, she had to choose, on becoming a widow, between a convent and the chateau of Montargis. She liked neither alternative; but she had greater fear of the convent than of Montargis; and perhaps thought it would be easier to escape from the latter than the former. She knew she had much to fear from the King, although she did not yet know all, and although he had been properly polite to her, considering the occasion.

Zzzzzzz.

From a letter sent by Liselotte [wife#2] to her aunt:

"I must tell Your Grace that my adversaries have put it into Monsieur’s head to make his master of the horse my son’s governor. But because I, along with all of France, know that this man is one of the most disreputable and debauched characters in the world, I have asked Monsieur to give my son another governor. This I have done because I think that it would not be to my son’s honor if people thought that he is d’Effiat’s mistress, for there is no doubt that there is no greater sodomist in France than he, and that it would be a bad beginning for a young prince to start his life with the worst debauchery imaginable. To this point Monsieur replied that he had to admit that d’Effiat used to be debauched and loved the boys, but that he had corrected himself of this vice many years ago. I said that it was not many years ago that a good-looking young German who was here made his excuses to me for not calling on me as often as he wished because he was bothered so much by d’Effiat whenever he came to the Palais Royal, and that this proves that he has not corrected himself as many years ago as his friends claim. But even supposing that he had not indulged in this vice for a few years, I told Monsieur, I do not believe that my only son should be used to find out whether or not the lord master of the horse can get along without his pages and thus be considered a depraved and dissolute person by those who do not know of d’Effiat’s conversion; this, I said, was bound to ruin his reputation."

I started watching this series & then forgot about it. Something about Netflix creeps me out these days