The ferris wheel scene from the Third Man

This movie captures Vienna so beautifully. Love the last scene.

The stars and crew were all speeding off their heads making this.Carol Reed was dishing them out like sweeties.

Bye-bye Alida.

We hat does this mean, R2?

^What

It was a fast arduous shoot and done predominantly at night.Using Benzedrine (Speed) tablets and their Amphetamine variants was legal and very common in those days.It was used as a pick-me-up stimulant and slimming aid until it became more subscribed and criminalised in recent years.

Thanks!

Surely it was not called a 'ferris' wheel oh dear OP.

What kind of illiterate is OP already?

Already.

It’s called Riesenrad, gurls. Nobody says Ferris Wheel in Vienna.

R2 this movie was shot in Vienna Austria in 1949ish. The city was still occupied and bombed out for the war so filming was arduous at best so the use of stimulants is not surprising.

William Wyler wasn't happy.

Trevor Howard apparently loved wearing his uniform.He was arrested drunk and disorderly in the Russian sector and had to be bailed out by the British military.

Trevor Howard drunk? No? Say it ain’t so.

The last 30 seconds of OP’s clip is one of my top 3 favorite movie quotes of all time.

R16 It's his excuse for theft and murder.

Lime is a criminal.

We know, R17. It's still great dialogue.

War-criminals should not be praised. There's nothing glamorous about selling adulterated penicillin to babies who will die in hospital.

Harry Lime was an interloper who brought misery and death.

Who said there's anything glamorous about selling adulterated penicillin to babies who will die in hospital? Holly Martins is the protagonist and he works with the military police to trap Lime, who is killed in the sewer like the rat he is.

[quote] Who said there's anything glamorous. . . .

Orson Welles. He's playing an American having a big adventure making money.

R19, it's a movie.

Graham Greene saw this misery and corruption first hand.

This is a very SAD movie with a very SAD ending.

Philip Seymour Hoffman's characterisation of 'Freddie Miles' was based on Harry Lime.

Carol Reed's secretary gave short shrift to Mr Welles.

[R25] Fascinating.

War criminals were not being praised, R19. A good line was being praised.

Harry is supposed to be charismatic, which is why Holly is his friend and why it's a shock when we learn he is the Third Man. I need hardly remind you that there have always been charismatic war criminals. It is rarely seen as grounds to forgive what they do, and it isn't here.

[quote] I need hardly remind you that there have always been charismatic war criminals.

Yes, I don't need be reminded that Pol Pot was a sexy man and Adolf Schicklgruber was a laugh a minute!

[quote] Adolf Schicklgruber was a laugh a minute!

Hitler was a funny guy on Red Dwarf. He’d been cured of evil.

Who else thinks Orson Welles used to be hot?

Well, R30, Sylvia Fowler said last May that 'young Orson, especially back in his late 1930s theater days, was so hot. Add in the voice and his personal charisma/genius...hot damn!'

I must watch this film. That scene was extraordinary OP.

Yes, you absolutely must watch the film if you haven't seen it yet, r32. It's literally one of the finest movies ever made (IIR the British film critics ranked it the #1 film of all time several years ago). It would be one of my desert island films for the music alone.

Orson Welles was apparently a pain in the ass to Carol Reed during the filming, always second-guessing Reed. Welles is also reputed to have written that speech himself.

Why did Graham Greene never get the Nobel lit?

[quote] lit

[quote] Why did Graham Greene never get the Nobel lit?

Because we were not one of his faaaaaaaaaaaans!

Greene refused because they were being handing out to second-raters.

What about me?

None of you lazy cows care to comment in the film’s amazing score by a virtually unknown Austrian zither player?

R39, see R33.

Sorry R40, I was too lazy to read through the entire thread. Here is more info on Anton Karas..

I know I’m really in the minority, but the only thing I don’t like about the movie is the music. It feels like it should be used in a comedy, unless the director was going for incongruity.

Does this feel funny to you R45?

Truly a great movie.

If Welles was really a pain in the ass on the set, it was all worth it. He's a brilliant Harry Lime.

I don't like the way he says "the cuckoo clock." His self-satisfaction with this lame witticism presages his ultimate failure.

He pronounces 'cuckoo' as 'kookoo'. He's a bitch.

The cuckoo quote is cute but it is ignorant of the violence of Swiss history. It was just as bad as Italy.

As charismatic as Welles is, Joseph Cotten is the MVP of this film. His suppressed fear and dawning horrified realization in this scene are beautifully acted, and so is his soppy, clueless love for Anna in his scenes with her. I think Welles knew that Cotten would anchor any scene in reality so Welles could chew the scenery at will.

^ MVP is a North American expression to describe the 'Most valuable player' in various sports.

North?

R43: when I hear the music I think of three things:

An old-timey magician on stage

A couple strolling through Greece in a movie

Or musicians who serenade people at restaurants. Comedy was the wrong word choice. Still, the music doesn’t work for me but I do think it’s a great film, regardless.

R52, Anton Karas was actually a musician who serenaded people at restaurants. One of the people he serenaded was director Carol Reed, and the rest is history.

From Wikipedia:

[quote]Reed, desperately searching for a theme tune ... chanced on the tavern in Vienna's Grinzing wine-growing district. Struck by the simple zither melodies, Reed asked a stunned Karas if he would compose the music for the film. Karas protested, saying he had never actually written music. As Karas later told the story, the director insisted and invited Karas to England. The Austrian became homesick and asked to return. Reed told him he could; when he had written the music. Under this pressure, Karas wrote his Harry Lime theme.

R52, one of the things that makes the score work for its fans is its apparently shallow, naive simplicity. The entire film basically pivots around Holly Martins trying and finally failing to impose his cheerful, naive worldview on a dark, murky world where no one is innocent and nothing is un-tainted.

The use of a ferris wheel is another example. It's meant for children, for happy times with families. But there are no children there. Instead, Harry smirks to Holly about the children he's murdered, "The dead are happier dead. They don't miss much here, poor devils."

The entire film touches on this theme of surface hints of happiness/normality, with darkness underneath. The balloon seller, with no children anywhere nearby. The glitzy show Anna performs in, contrasted with the dreary backstage (where it's implied, IMO, that the girls are basically pimped out, or just selling themselves, to survive). Anna's beautiful apartment in the grand Viennese building -- which is half-ruined, subject to constant blackouts, and run by a broken-down landlady who wears a tattered blanket for a dressing gown.

If you look at the score in this light, as superficially cheerful but with an undertone of melancholy and resignation, you'll understand why it's acclaimed.

The little boy yelling "Murderer" when he sees Holly... Brilliant dialogue, lighting, framing, editing. Holly's "I don't understand" works on so many levels. I agree with those who have pointed out the excellence of Cotten's performance -- he and Alida Valli have a kind of anti-chemistry which works perfectly for their sad, one-sided relationship.

Well said, R54. This combination of beauty, resignation, and death is typical for Vienna (and Lisbon).

For those on the West Coast, it’s on at 9pm on TCM.

My aunt (who was 15 years older than my father) told me that the Theme From The Third Man in 1949/1950 was a MASSIVE hit. It was ubiquitous. All over the radio, and if you went out, every band played it. She told me her impression from the time is that the song became bigger than the movie.

There is for sure something almost hypnotic about it. Its jaunty, yet mysterious.

If this movie leaves you wanting more Harry Lime, it's available

I’m curious as to why the name Holly was used.

R59 In that subsequent series, I assume they softened Harry Lime. In the movies, he's evil. Hard to imagine a weekly series about him, you know.

He’s such a good evil. Charm and cunning.

[quote] One of the things that makes the score work for its fans is its apparently shallow, naive simplicity. The entire film basically pivots around Holly Martins trying and finally failing to impose his cheerful, naive worldview on a dark, murky world where no one is innocent and nothing is un-tainted. The use of a ferris wheel is another example. It's meant for children, for happy times with families. But there are no children there. Instead, Harry smirks to Holly about the children he's murdered

[quote] The only thing I don’t like about the movie is the music. It feels like it should be used in a comedy, unless the director was going for incongruity.

Yes, the incongruous childlike motif is unsettling, because of its juxtaposition with the subject matter.

It gives the same chilling sensation as when you hear the music of an ice-cream truck playing far away, in inclement weather, or during term-time, or somewhere not near a beach or park. Where is it? Why is it out and about? Who is selling or buying ice-creams here, in this cold? Aren't all the kids in school? Eerie.

R60, as originally conceived, the character's name was Rollo. I don't know why "Holly" was chosen but I have two suspicions. First, name trouble is a consistent theme in the movie. Dr Winkel has to keep correcting the pronunciation of his name: "VIN-kel." Holly calls Maj. Calloway "Callahan" several times, until Calloway snaps, "I'm English, not Irish!"

And Anna refers to Holly as "Harry" several times. That's an easier mistake to make if the names are similar.

Graham Greene, who wrote the story and screenplay, was not fond of Americans. Throughout his work, he portrays them as boorish, blundering, and often childishly oblivious. "Holly" is a rather childish and vaguely feminized name for a grown man, which suits Greene's writing for this character.

Harry has gone entirely native, so, as evil as he is, he is portrayed as masculine, intelligent, and effectual despite his American origins.

Characters also mention Holly's name. Anna, after finding out he's conspired with the police to catch Harry, spits contemptuously, "Honest, sensible, sober, harmless Holly Martins. Holly -- what a silly name."

The last line in the film, after Maj. Calloway urges Holly to "be sensible," is Holly's response:

"Haven't got a sensible name, Calloway."

Cotton, Villa, Howard, and Welles were all great, but let's discuss Wilfrid Hyde-White as the old queen in the movie.

Into the sewer:

Greene was not interested in the romantic Vienna of the past, but rather in the war-damaged, rundown city of the present: He would talk to anyone he met, constantly searching for a theme on which to build his story. An important source was the British occupation authority. So, for example, a young intelligence officer, Group Captain Charles Beauclerk, mentioned the Sewer Brigade, a special division of the Viennese police force set up in 1934. With their white overalls and heavy rubber boots, these policemen would later play important supporting roles in the final chase scene in The Third Man. During their tour of the sewer system, Montagu saw terrifying musk rats in the torchlight, the size of small dogs. These animals had originally been kept in fur farms and had escaped during the chaos of war. The torchlight attracted the rats, who began following the group's every step: “Needless to say, when at last we emerged into the streets, we ran into the nearest cafe to down a couple of stiff glasses of Schnapps.” Greene was fascinated by this subterranean labyrinth and made it one of the most important locations in his story.

[quote] Sewer Brigade, a special division of the Viennese police force set up in 1934

Why?

Was that a criminal escape route? Why weren't the sewers locked?

[quote] It's literally one of the finest movies ever made

Yes it is but it has two minor faults.

The celluloid film stock was damaged; the final (very poignant) scene is bleached out and looks out of focus.

The use of monochrome film stock was cheaper and more arty but current viewers (including myself) are biased against it.

I found Ernst Deutsch so creepy, and Wilfrid Hyde-White affable. Both characters were perfectly cast.

Yes, Ernst Deutsch is fantastic. It's abundantly clear that Dr Winkel and Baron Kurtz, with his little dog, are a coded gay couple.

[quote] Wilfrid Hyde-White affable. Both characters were perfectly cast

Greene was naughty because he stole that scene from Alfred Hitchcock's 'The 39 Steps'.

Richard Hannay is on the run pursuing a MacGuffin across Scotland.. He tries to hide at a political meeting and is mistaken for the introductory speaker and tries to fool the audience.

Was just looking at the Wikipedia entry for The Third Man and noticed that Brother Theodore had an uncredited role as "Man in Street." Some DLders may remember him for his long run in the 80s doing monolog/standup at the 13th St Repertory Theater in the Village.

Small world.

It seems Brother Theodore was a real character in polyglot NY.

Brother Theodore was very creepy.

[quote] very creepy.

Anyone who was near the horrors of war-torn Vienna would be damaged.

Anna Schmidt was very damaged.

[quote] I know I’m really in the minority, but the only thing I don’t like about the movie is the music

Agree. It takes me out of it. Maybe if it was used less, or not so loud, or if I saw it in an old movie theater, like I used to see Alfred Hitchcock revivals in NYC in the 1980s, it would be ok. But it grates. I guess they had to have background music though. Old movies would often have dramatic music at dramatic moments.

Watching old TV westerns on MeTV one day I realized how much background music there was which I hadn’t noticed as a kid. Like canned laughter, I guess I was just used to it.

Joseph Cotton has A VOICE like Orson Welles had A VOICE. He’s wonderful in Shadow of a Doubt. His voice is homey and reassuring as well as impressive. He is everybody’s favorite, respectable uncle. Until he isn’t

No wonder they worked so well together even sibefore the Mercury Theater days.

How did Welles get newspapers to print the sensationalized War of the Worlds story? Which newspaper started the legend, I wonder.

[quote] I think Welles knew that Cotten would anchor any scene in reality so Welles could chew the scenery at will.

No. The English producer (Alexander Korda) knew that he had to take Cotton and Valli if he wanted Welles. The three of them were under contract to Selznick.

[quote] let's discuss Wilfrid Hyde-White as the old queen in the movie.

He was so skinny.

He ballooned out in the following 15 years.

Do you think Trevor Howard might look like this with some spray-on tan, grooming and filthy skin-paint?

^ Trevor Howard was one of Britain top five stars at the time of The Third Man in 1948.

But for some unknown reason he wasn't invited over to the US. James Mason, Michael Redgrave and Leo Genn all went the US around 1947. But not Trevor.

[quote]Philip Seymour Hoffman's characterisation of 'Freddie Miles' was based on Harry Lime.

R24 What a pile of crap!

[quote] Proof, please

The proof is in the research notes of the late PS Hoffman.

He was determined to make his bit part into a much more interesting and sinister adventurer of a character than the three anodyne characters in the star roles.

It is so much better than ‘Citizen Kane”. I don’t understand why this movie is so highly ranked.

R73 this DLer remembers Brother Theodore's fantastically deranged Letterman shots. A unique, brilliant performer.

"...and David, I don't mind telling you thos woman was unattractive. She made Bella Abzug look.like an airline hostess!"

Does psychopathic have a different meaning in England? This is from the link at R82 about Trevor Howard:

Files held in the Public Records Office reveal he had actually been discharged from the Army for mental instability and having a 'psychopathic personality'.

R87 Adolf Hitler had sent a Blizkrieg to rain bombs down upon England in readiness for invasion..

The Army did not want to waste time on a young man who was a little difficult or romantic. He was shunted off to do farm work producing food as all the regular able-bodied farm labourers were already called up for the army.

Young Trevor could have appeared rather fey to a blustering Sergeant-Major. And war time is NO time for sissies!

Just love this film so much.

Welles wrote the "cukoo-clock" stuff himself.

There's a great audio commentary with Soderbergh and Tony Gilroy on YouTube you guys might enjoy. Well, Soderbergh is great, Gilroy doesn't add much.

^ Could you tell us the highlights of that (almost) two hour long chat?

Soderbergh says he likes decay.

He acknowledges Reed and Greene had a strict discipline and good taste which is unknown today.

Reed and Greene were able to push that discipline onto the three Selznick contract players.

r30-

[quote]Who else thinks Orson Welles used to be hot?

Rita Hayworth?