Most Overrated Cities in the US

Bug Tussle - once the Clampetts moved out, the property values dropped and it has never recovered.

Definitely Miami.

DFW

New Orleans gave me the creeps. Surrounded by swamps and poverty liked I'd never seen in my life and fuck those fancy balconies, who gives a shit?

R3: but "everyone" is moving there.

Austin seemed "over" 20 years ago.

Denver has a moment every 20 years and then people discover it's an expensive place to live without commensurate wage rates and a lot of them leave.

Every city is overrated.

Magazines do a good job of hyping up a place. Madison Wisconsin frequently lands on these ‘move to’ lists. So you have a bunch of lakes and a hipster farmers market that liberal whites go to ‘be seen’ buying honey from some bearded beekeeper hipster.

In Canada, Vancouver. The setting is spectacular, but unless you’re really into snowboarding or the Chinese diaspora, it’s punishingly expensive and sort of a babity snooze. I’m happy to go visit for a couple of days, but just as happy to leave.

Orlando. I have never understood why people pay thousands to visit and go to all those dumb, fake, tacky, overcrowded theme parks. It's hot as blazes for 9 months of the year, full of traffic and homeless people, and there is no culture at all.

I agree that New Orleans has a really heavy vibe. Interesting place to visit but would never want to live there.

R9 Agreed. The humidity in Orlando would kill me esp if I had to share the same air as Donna & Debbie Bucket vacationing from Redneckville, USA

The Denver suburbs are so unspeakably awful, it's easy to see why those Columbine boys snapped.

T U L S A !

I don't want to hear anything negative about Austin, OP, because I'm 95% sure my company is going to relocate me there later this year. Ugh.

The traffic alone is reason enough in Austin to find another employer.

Tulsa is well liked because its mile ahead of Oklahoma City in terms of cultural opporftunities.

Jeez, harsh opinions. I live in a suburb of Denver and it's not that bad. I love it here.

Austin is the most overrated city around. It's horribly hot in the summer, it's plagued with allergens, its traffic is overwhelming, and it's filled with libertarian wanna-be Musks who think that rules and laws are only for the weak.

These places are not supposed to be utopia, they're supposed to be nice places in shitty states.

Denver is a really nice city. It’s safe and clean in comparison to the rest of the country.

Orlando is not an awful place. It's a breeze to get laid, there's every nationality running around (whatever flavor you're looking for) and the downtown area is charming.

I don’t think Tulsa is over-hyped. Is it even mentioned to begin with?

R19 Denver is yawn!

Boise .. Seems like everyone’s flocking there and scaring all the white people

Seattle was pretty swingy when my family moved here 50 years ago. It's fallen by the wayside. Property taxes up the fucking ass, rivaling Amsterdam, London and Paris. However, in the aforementioned cities I see no trash on the streets, no graffiti, I don't have to step over comatose junkies on my way to shopping. We have a city council the prays to Allah seven times a day.

Yonkers

Nashville

Portland, ME is one of my favorite American cities, albeit to visit in summer or fall.

Every city is overrated to someone, but Austin is one I’ll never understand.

[quote] Denver - Please let this one die an early death as well.

What would this even mean? How would a city of 700K people "die an early death"??

OP, you sound addled.

Austin

R6 is right. What attracts people to certain cities; what makes them energized, inspired, and/or comfortable in a specific city varies drastically depending on the person. Every city someone likes or loves, someone dislikes or hates. The biggest cities are often tagged with "overrated" because they get a lot of attention because more goes on in them. But, it's not any sort of formal rating.

Fortunately, we all want different things from where we live.

Though if I had to spend more than a day in Orlando, I would take my life

Las Vegas to visit and/or Henderson to live. It's a cesspool of filth and the worst humans possible. Henderson is boring, hot, flat and overrated. Unless you MUST work in Vegas I don't get living there. Las Vegas isn't a nice, or pretty town. It's gotten where it is on the backs of all the dead dreams of others and copying the style of other landmarks.

I lived in both Madison and Denver and liked both well enough.

But both are very provincial.

Cedar Rapids! Bet you didn’t know it’s a top 10 LGGTQ travel destination! Cedar Rapids ranked 3rd in the list of Top 20 Fastest Metro Areas to Save for Your First Home (2022), according to a study published by RentCafe.

Cedar Rapids is ranked as the second best rental housing market in the US (2021) according to a report from personal finance website WalletHub.

Cedar Rapids was named a Top 10 LGBTQ friendly travel destination in the world! (2021), citing Cedar Rapids as a city known for its diversity and inclusion.

Am I hallucinating, or did r35 say Cedar Rapids?

I prefer Cedar Falls.

Cedar Rapids LGBTQ marketing slogan: “You’ll always find a treasure at one of our 2 gay bars and 3 antique malls”

Cedar Rapids’ National Rankings

Cedar Rapids named a top 10 LGBTQ friendly travel destination in the world This study cited Cedar Rapids as a city known for its diversity and inclusion. (Million Mile Secrets 2021)

Cedar Rapids ranked 13th Best City in the US for First Time Home Buyers (WalletHub 2021)

Cedar Rapids ranked #1 Best Place in America to Raise a Child Cedar Rapids was named the top best place in America to raise a child five years in a row and remains in the top three for 2020. (SmartAsset 2015 - 2020)

Cedar Rapids ranked 14th Best Run City in US Analysts compare cities on financial stability, education, health, safety, economy and infrastructure & pollution. (Wallethub.com 2020)

Cedar Rapids named #11 Top American City to Live in After a Pandemic (Business Insider 2020)

Cedar Rapids named #2 Most Recession Resistant City (Smart Asset 2020)

Cedar Rapids awarded Most Caring City in Iowa Cedar Rapids has the highest share of individuals working in altruistic fields statewide, including social work, healthcare, counseling, firefighting, teaching, and more. (Insurify 2020)

Cedar Rapids named a ‘Mini Megacity’ to Watch This report highlights the most up-and-coming US markets for commercial construction. (Construction Dive 2020)

Cedar Rapids ranked #34 City with the Most Affordable Homes in the US The study found that 96 percent of homes are affordable for the average household living here. (lendedu.com 2020)

Cedar Rapids ranked #2 Best Cities for Road Trippers (Zippia 2020)

Cedar Rapids ranked #2 Best Cities for a Fresh Start (Livability 2020)

Cedar Rapids ranked #18 Safest City in America

r1, that's because, after the Clampets and Bodines moved, everyone left behind moved, from Bug Tussle, to the bright lights of Pixley.

I see the Cedar Rapids Chamber of Commerce has spoken.

This is supposed to be a thread about overrated cities, not an ad for one.

R41 Seriously and who wants to sit around in an Applebee’s and look at a bunch of white people in Cedar Rapids

Cedar Rapids is in fucking IOWA, though.

IOWA - When you want the ridiculousness of the deep South but with snow!

The whole state of Texas

Asheville

Portland OR

International Edition: Amsterdam, Berlin, Barcelona, Tel Aviv,

I’d hate to be friends with op

OP, I live about 15 minutes outside of Portland, Maine and like it a lot. But I should also disclose I spent a considerable amount of time in my life around Connecticut's major cities: New Haven, Hartford, Bridgeport, New London, and Waterbury. They are all a mess and most incredible missed opportunities. I could not get away fast enough and return to my native state.

To me, my experience of a place is tied almost entirely to why I’m there and who I’m seeing. I feel like any city I’ve ever visited is capable of providing a good time or a bad time, depending.

Asheville -- small, boring and not always as gay friendly as they claim.

After all, Congressman Madison Cawthorn was elected there.

I love Asheville and understand that it is a progressive bubble. If you venture too far, get ready for Deliverance.

Asheville is nice for a daytrip or maybe a weekend away from Atlanta (also overrated) but there's less there than meets the eye. Forgettable restaurants and crafts you could find almost anywhere.

Denver used to have a very active men's sauna in the downtown YMCA. Everyone just ignored the many posted signs that said "respect yourself, respect the Y."

R49: I've never met anyone who tried to ram Waterbury, CT down my throat. New Haven and Hartford have been regarded as hellholes (to a degree worse than they deserve) for a long time.

Overrated is fitting for tediuously boosterish places like Columbus, Ohio (makes Cleveland seem like Paris); Indianapolis (makes Columbus seem like Paris), Atlanta (the place that Indy and Columbus wish they were); places having their hipsterish moments: Austin (probably fun in the '80s), Denver (every 20 years the moment comes and goes), and Nashville (home to the Southern Baptist Convention); places where people can only yammer on about "the weather" even though it sucks for much of the year (most of Florida, Arizona, and Texas).

Wow that's a breezy, empty review, R55. Have you got experiences to back up your acid diatribe, or is it all flippancy all the time?

Boston

R56 why do you come to DL?

I'll take that as a "no".

"Boise .. Seems like everyone’s flocking there and scaring all the white people."

I thought it was white people flocking there - for (relative) cost of living and because their old states/cities were getting less white.

I actually liked Nashville. Charming vibe and pretty fun , the botanical gardens are really nice there.

R55, R49 here. I was not at all stating anyone was raving about Connecticut cities, but more using them as a comparison to why I like Portland, Maine. OP had Portland as one of their examples of overrated cities.

R62 Portland Maine was very underwhelming. Ive visited in winter & summer. I thought the restaurants were fantastic but very expensive for what they serve.. Lots of beekeeper bearded types working barista jobs -,typical hipster town. Modern buildings mixed with rundown meth looking houses. The weather is awful awful awful & It’s expensive as hell to live there— & folks are not paid jack shit.

I agree about Austin. It sucks. Traffic is bad and now filled with tech bros. Brand-new apartment buildings on every single corner and outsiders moving in are actually more conservative than longtime Austinites. STAY AWAY!!!!!

R50 gets it.

THREAD CLOSED

My brother built a house on one of the islands in Casco Bay, and I visited Portland ME a lot... I loved the size, culture, restaurants, but also had a certain seediness (c.f. other thread about the Seediest City in America), including a waterfront that was rough, rusty, and functioning. I liked it. I also did visit in the winters. The freezing wind in the ferry out to the island...makes you know you've BEEN someplace.

I've never been to FL, but I know that every well-loved city there is seriously overrated.

R63- I so agree about Portland Maine. Decent place to visit for a daytrip- but to live there? Fuck no. I had my short experience in that area and it felt like the land that time forgot.

The key thing there is the fact that there are so little decent paying jobs- Its a horribly overpriced city for what it is and it's complete lack of opportunity.

If you are a doctor or attorney- You will do just fine. Inheritor of an estate? Go for it.

Maine is a horrible state in every way. No population density, HIGH TAXES, shitty weather, and so many poor and underpaid people.

I would recommend Boston over Portland. Hell- even Portsmouth NH, and you can commute to Boston for work.

R60, Boise has a refugee relocation program, so there are quite a few "furriners" moving in here and there. Why, after Katrina we even had people from that heathen New Orleans all up in here!

I don’t know why anyone would want to live in Maine. It’s so far away from civilization. As a photographer I’ve come across men who want to model and do porn from that area. I tell them to move and then get back to me. They’ve got to do 2-3 hour drives to get to life. No way.

Hootersville!

R15. A Dallasite here, but I agree. Tulsa has a wonderful collection of Art Deco buildings, majestic native trees and a strong cultural vibe.

If forced to relocate to a mid-sized city, it would be near the top of the list.

R56/R59: R58 was simply mocking you but wasn't R55. Funny thing---I'm from Ohio and get back periodically (hence Columbus & Cleveland). I've lived in Hartford, Nashville and Atlanta and not far from Indy. I get to all the places I've named because I travel for work and for pleasure and unlike most people here I've been to all 50 states. I know what it's like to visit "a place that doesn't live up" and I've tolerated tedious boosterism from all kinds of people.

As for Portland, Maine, even I have an anecdote. A grad school classmate of mine--NYC native, seemed temperamentally unsuited to live anywhere but a big city has happily lived in Portland (actually Freeport) since the 90s. We all predicted he wouldn't last but he has. Dynamic enough for him to have a successful business and people he's met drew him into the outdoors and the arts. And there is something about the stillness of places in winter that's worth discovering---snow muffles noise and reflects light and creates shadow that takes the harsh, limited sun of winter into a thing of beauty. There's a sense of place in New England, generally that you don't get in sunbelt sprawlburgs, even the small supposedly wonderful ones like Raleigh-Durham.

[quote] I don’t know why anyone would want to live in Maine. It’s so far away from civilization.

To some, that IS the appeal.

But not Portland, though.

R57

Cannot agree that Boston is overrated. The cute little history tours? Frog pond? The art museum? Proximity to New England and New York -- fuhgetaboutit.

Denver, OTOH, is awful, and it was awful 30 years ago, too. The air is so dry. And it is flat as an Irish arse.

R72- Freeport is nice-

Portland is also nice- Boothbay Harbor looks very much like the Maine of your dreams- but when you are there it doesn't feel "good" that whole state felt odd to me.

Your friend is very lucky and must be talented-

Maine is definitely a state where you have to make your own luck- or be a creator- or rich- or a true professional (the word professional is thrown around alot)

There are NO opportunities there worth shit. In fact I would say that southern Maine may be the most overpriced real estate area in the country if you were to compare it job opportunities that could sustain a mortgage.

Perception is the key and maybe mine is/was off.

I had a home there for a very brief period of time. Loneliest place ever.

And I agree about New England winters- they are beautiful. I am a winter person. I love everything about it!

,.......

I worked in this office once, and the receptionist said there were a bunch of people from Iowa in the lobby. Iowa?

Yeah, IDIOTS OUT WALKING AROUND.

R69 is a pervert

Have to agree with OP on Denver and Portland, OR:

Denver - go for work regularly and in the 10 years doing so, Downtown and Capitol Hill, have declined. Homelessness feels like California these days (SF resident here). Also it's gotten much more expensive with techies moving out (usually from CA). Traffic has also increased, even though they are investing in infrastructure like new highways and public transportation. Always find myself stuck next to a native on flights over and they complain relentlessly about these changes.

Went last October for the first time since the pandemic and you felt like you were on Market St. in SF.

Portalnd - BF relocated there for a bit. Always been weird, but these days kind of a victim of its own success. Weird for the sake of being weird, which gets old after a while. Weather is atrocious, limited things to do (nature is an exception) but feels even more limited in cultural options than Denver (especially given how "progressive" there make themselves out to be - like in SF many of these progressives don't actually like doing things with/around other people), and everyone complains about the Californians moving in and making it expensive.

I've looked at Denver housing recently, just out of curiosity, and they've got million dollar homes all squeezed up close to each other. What idiot would do that?

great thread

Seattle.

Non-stop traffic jam.

Insufferable people.

Not as sophisticated and progressive as it thinks it is.

Asheville - getting tired of the unhoused. some who set up an unofficial recycling center in the parking lot across from my apartment, now I hear cans being crunched and bottles thrown around all day. The mountains are lovely. I plan to move to Black Mountain, live in the mountains far away from the urban filth.

Houston

I agree about Ashevilles being overrated. It has lost its charm. Expensive housing, shitty healthcare (look up HCA buying Mission hospital), and the city seems to be full of self-righteous hipsters, boring hipsters, many of whom lack a sense of humor. No thanks.

Denver is terrible. About 40 years ago, a bunch of typical Colorado wannabees "crowdfunded" an ad in Interview to dispel the image of Denver as a cowtown. What these losers didn't understand then, and current Denverites don't understand now, is Denver IS a cowtown and that's what made it special. Trying to be a real city is something it can't achieve. It can be only derivative.

What does Denver have going for it now that pot is legal basically everywhere?

The people are terrible in Denver too. They really think that they’re ‘city folk’ but they’re really a bunch of white, boring, uncultured hillbillies. The only thing it has going for it is the proximity to the mountains for skiing, and even that sucks now because the resorts are all so overcrowded that you can’t get on a ski lift.

Austin is the worst now. It is way overpriced and you must have a car to live there. The summers are nothing but humidity and mosquitos. I am happy I left.

R88 Denver is horrible. It’s a flat wasteland of ugly houses and ugly architecture/

New York City --mean, angry, pushy assholes who are happy to be treated like a city overflowing with artists and art lovers. Gimme a break.

San Francisco --human feces are found all over SF, each day. I'm serious. Yes, a city that is used like a big toilet for all vagrants, drifters, beggars, etc.

Seattle --preachy dope-heads. The pressure is constant. The rain is constant. The drugs are never-ending. (I can't list Washington DC b/c I think most Americans know how low class, fancy crap it is.)

This thread isn’t long enough to list how much I hate Washington DC. It would literally take up to 600 posts. Overrated x 500

I find Houston a lot more fun and less pretentious than Austin, and the food and art are just as good or better.

Atlanta. Shitty downtown, fake friendly southerners and unbelievable traffic. Was only there for four days and felt I'd seen it all.

R92 Is DC rated highly though? It seems like one of those places that is universally despised by anyone who ever set foot in it ( myself included). Make a thread trashing L.A. or NYC and you will see just as many people defending it as those disliking it. Post about disliking Washington and it seems that 90 percent of people agree.

R95, a lot of non industry people I know love DC especially during the spring and summertime.

DC is underrated because 70% of the people are just here temporarily for work and make no effort to connect with the local people and places.

R97, As a native Washingtonian I find that number inaccurate. There's a sizeable amount of people there in the area only for work, but not 70%. Maybe 15% at best.

I love DC. Highly educated and socially conscious people, plus a really great diverse population and food scene

I'm looking for a new city to move to but every town in my shortlist is mentioned here. I was thinking Atlanta, Nashville, New Orleans, Miami (only for the tech bros, I have a thing for nerds), and New York. I graduated college last year, and I reluctantly took a job in my small hometown in AL. I hated French Quarter, but I could actually picture myself living in Midtown. But I was also in midtown for just one day, so what do I know??? I love DC but IDK, I hear the people there are smart but humorless, and that's a negative for me.

I was going to say avoid the South, but since you're from there, you may not mind it.

Nashville has a lot of transplants. But I found the native Tennesseeans some of the friendliest people.

I don't understand all the DC dislike on DL. It's a liberal city with decent weather. Lots of culture (incl. good food), political excitement, some beautiful buildings.

Las Vegas, yes, it's horrible. However, it does have good food.

People are constantly bitching about how humid DC is in the summer. I don't get how it's any worse than any other city. It's gotta be better than New Orleans.

R104, DC is pretty damn humid in the summer. I was there 2 summers. One was unbearable, the other was a freak summer that wasn't that bad.

But, still, I like DC. Now that I'm older, I think the heat might bother me less.

I think Minneapolis/St Paul are way overrated. The two downtowns are ghost towns, lots of white flight to the suburbs. There is a small town mentality, and an undercurrent of smugness and fake sincerity that always bothers me. I think of it as Omaha with professional sports teams.

Any opinions about Greensboro or Wilmington NC? Charlottesville VA? I know, they're in the South - but real estate is still reasonable there.

NC is really blowing up. I know two people who moved to Raleigh and they love it. Curious if Asheville is worth looking into? Thoughts on Charleston SC?

Lol, r108 I was coming in to post Charleston. It floods horribly and doesn't have the infrastructure to handle the number of people who are moving there who all seem to be coming from Ohio. The natives are pretentious assholes, well the white ones because the Black natives seem only to be used for the service industry and then tucked away. There are some great restaurants but I find downtown boring after about 20 minutes. It's San Francisco/NYC expensive without half the amenities.

I totally agree with Denver. Ugh. Though, I'm not sure that it's actually "rated" that highly currently - seems like more an early augts, early 2010s thing when it was all the rage.

Las Vegas is overrated. Just a giant machine designed to suck all the money out of you. Plus it's blazing hot half the year. And all visitors seem to think they are required to be drunk. You might like Las Vegas if you're into orange traffic cones, though. There are a billion of them and it's the state flower of Nevada. Every street is always under construction.

I'd actually disagree with Vegas, because it's not pretending to be anything that it's not. It leans into it's money-sucking identity with aplomb.

Highly educated in DC equals the biggest fucking nerd know it all of the universe. The people are ugly and dull. They drink too much to overcompensate for the fact that they have absolutely no sense of humor. Ugly women ugly men. Don’t even get me started about the people who work for the government .. Kill yourself now you waste of a human being. The summers are awful. There is no sense of style whatsoever unless you consider a 20 year old dressing like a 60 year old. Yeah it’s beautiful in spring La La La a bunch of cherry trees. Everyone is super impressed with themselves, their degrees, their jobs etc. No one is capable of having a normal conversation unless it revolves around getting ahead. Ask someone with their job title is and it’s some made up bullshit.. policy aide for political progress.. wtf is that you dork?!

Also socially conscious people in DC equals annoying as fuck nerds running around yapping about nothing. No one gives a shit about the rainforest you fat curly haired toad.

But, R113, R114, is it "overrated"? Doesn't DC recognize and lean into that description? No one thinks of DC like NYC, LA, or Miami, even Chicago or NOLA. It's image is a government town with egghead bureaucrats, not some sexy, cool city.

DC is less humid than New Orleans (a total steam bath in summer and damp the rest of the year) or Atlanta (where dampness is unavoidable year round). ATL is vapid in a way that few places its size can match. New Orleans is fun, but it's also basically a very small town with tight social circles. The Triangle area is just a collection of sprawlburgs and also socially very insular. NYC is so different from any of those places and would require a totally different set of survival skills., but it wouldn't be dull.

DC is my favorite US city. It truly is beautiful, especially spring and summer. Pretty nice neighborhoods, albeit expensive. Lots to do and see, and a fairly warm Climate that allows you to be outdoors much of the year. It’s also a very physically active and couscous place, with most men or the men I hang around being avid gym goers of aesthetics bros. A huge international and well-traveled population, and very diverse food scene are huge features. I like the large black professional class too.

I prefer DC folks over r113 and r114. By far. They are my tribe; r113/114 is not.

As a black gay male, I agree with r117 about the large population of black professionals in DC. It’s refreshing, and the only other city I’ve been to that comes close is Atlanta, I wouldn’t want to live in either city though (I lived in Atlanta briefly in 2007 and hated it).

[quote] Charlottesville VA?

Heaven on earth. But it is a very small-feeling small town, not a city.

No mention of literal hellhole Phoenix? Zero culture, full of MAGA boomers, miserable heat half the year, and the highest inflation in the country. I'd take Denver or Portland over Phoenix any day.

But is Phoenix highly rated? Yes, fast growing, but who raves about it?

[quote] couscous place

I get that was a typo but what word were you going for - conscious?

I would love to know the back story behind R113

What are some cities that are correctly rated? I'd say Chicago is one (if you exclude the racist rightwingers who use the city as a dog whistle).

There are a whole lot of places that OP hates.

OP - you hate DC, Portland, Austin, Denver.... all with the heat of a million suns.

What cities do you like?

Why have you moved around so much?

NYC has rats, nasty public transportation, and a lack of inhome washer/dyers, parking, public restrooms, sweet tea, and central a/c. I couldn’t do it

I love the poster who thinks Asheville, NC (population 92k, which is half the size of Jackson Heights, Queens) is too urban and crowded and filthy for him.

Places that are rapidly growing, like Phoenix, always get a lot of favorable press. People will say---so many people are moving there as though it's always a good thing or proof that something worthwhile is there. Go back a coupled decades and Atlanta used to get that fawning treatment, but now enough people have spent time there to know how classically overrated it is.

Some places can be underrated for decades--Chicago (from it's Capone days through the Daley era), Philly (from roughly the 50s until about 2000), and Boston (considered backwater-ish much of the 20th century, although Rt 128 gave the area a high tech image before Silicon Valley). NYC got a comeupance in the 70s and LA seems to have gradually gotten it comeupance more recently, even though its more of a city than it used to be. DC is much more fa real city than it was in the 90s and up until roughly the 70s it was a dull border town.

Yes, R120 is correct. The pastoral scenery surrounding Charlottesville is spectacular. It does get quite warm in the summer.

Most cities in the US aren't really cities. They're spots where highways meet and shopping centers were built around them.

The cities in the US that predate cars have the greatest claim to actually being a city, but even they were totally ripped apart to make way for cars.

Charleston is an overrated tourist trap with the most pretentious people in the South. They would have you believe that they all grew up at Twelve Oaks. The cost of housing is similar to some NE cities, especially on the peninsula (also flood-prone). The restaurant scene was good in the early 2000's but is now turned into the usual corporate or small town goup owning 3-6 restaurants. The Summers are miserable with the heat and humidity. The city is like a Southern Baptist version of NOLA, sanitized for tourists and families.

Charleston always struck me as Slavery Disneyland.

R114 And what the fuck is wrong with curly hair? I live with humidity every day.

R131, but what you consider “real cities” are often not what most Americans want in the place they live.

So what do we think about Detroit? I've heard that they're revitalizing the city, somewhat

I’ve only been to Detroit once. It seemed like a city that used to be great and big that is now hollowed out and emptied. Sad

Portland, Oregon. Overpriced, dirty, and full of human shit and junk-addled bums on every corner.

How about Little Rock?

I dunno, R135, what constitutes a "City" exists outside of my consideration. It an endless sprawl of detached bungalows connected by a street to an interstate a "city"? Shouldn't there be a difference between a city and a suburb?

Maybe not?

But, either way, one of the reasons cities can be expensive to live in is because a lot of people want to live there and that demand drives up prices. Someone wants to live there.

R133, I have never heard that term before and you should never use it again.

R140, maybe, but almost all of the US’s densest cities are losing population, real estate notwithstanding. Even DC is losing population

Underrated: Louisville, KY Boston, MA Minneapolis, MN Kansas City, MO Albuquerque, NM Santa Fe, NM Raleigh, NC Tulsa, OK Pittsburgh, PA Houston, TX Burlington, VT Charlottesville, VA

I love Minneapolis. A pretty clean, scenic, highly educated, pretty city. Most people were super friendly and open. Also a very fit city, with a lot of college students

A fan of Charlottesville here. The development has turned most of downtown into a strip mall and made traffic miserable -but still retains some college town feeling. The best thing about Cville is Albemarle County and the Blue Ridge Mtns. Stunning country areas with historic houses. Never understood why the DC gays don’t vacation there. But it seems like they don’t do weekend places like most other Northeast cities - unless you consider that sad little heterosexual Jersey Shore town of Rehoboth.

I could definitely see retiring in Cville. Though it’s gotten expensive and overdeveloped. Staunton is a interesting up and coming town nearby that’s still cheap.

Nah, Pittsburgh isn't underrated. It's not overrated either. It just exists LOL

I think Houston is underrated too. No one cares about it - it’s in TX. But with zero /negative expectations, it pleasantly surprises. Vibrant gayborhood, great food, good art, diverse population. One of the most underrated major cities in US. Way better than ATL or PHX - or Austin for that matter.

We've had threads about Houston R147

It's the 4th largest city in America, yet other than "NASA is based there" most people could not tell you a single thing about it.

DC folks go To North Carolina on weekends in summer, especially to Outer Banks

My pick for most overrated city:

Orlando, FL. Hot, humid, not pretty, the ultimate tourist trap, horrible traffic, and Florida stupidity.

DC folks also go to Asheville, even Winston-Salem

And many DC folks go to the Delaware beaches-- Rehoboth, Dewey Bethany --and Ocean City MD

Vegas owns this thread.

Two cities I've been to for work seemed like they had potential - Richmond and Kansas City--there were some pretty and fairly interesting areas in both cities, Richmond in particular had some beautiful older housing stock.

That said, I was only there for a few days each time and so living there, or even spending an extended period of time there, is likely very different.

Anyone with a more informed opinion on either place?

DC folks don’t make it to Cville for the scenery because there are good Shenandoah spots for camping, hiking, or staying in a river house near Front Royal, VA which is on the way to Cville but half the distance.

[quote] I think Houston is underrated too. No one cares about it - it’s in TX. But with zero /negative expectations, it pleasantly surprises. Vibrant gayborhood, great food, good art, diverse population. One of the most underrated major cities in US. Way better than ATL or PHX - or Austin for that matter.

Thanks, R147, good to know that about Houston. Thanks for giving your reasons why you like Houston. Those reasons would be my criteria as well.

Well, one of the reasons some cities may be losing population is because they've become so expensive.

Rich people gentrify areas and have the money and the juice to make sure nothing gets built around them.

The housing gets more and more expensive and no one can afford to move there.

A lot of cities (and expensive inner-ring suburbs) become retirement communities.

R143 Boston is underrated?

The Triangle has great healthcare and some very good restaurants, but in general it's aesthetically dull. Think ugly apartment complexes from the 1980's and McMansions. I can't comment on the people, as I've not spent enough time there to form an opinion. The architecture is lackluster and leaves a lot to be desired, though.

Asheville is beautiful, but it's sadly gone downhill the past few years. As mentioned above, HCA buying Mission Hospital was awful for the community. In addition, to the severe lack of housing and no it's not experiencing traffic like LA but for a town its size the vibe is beginning to feel quite crowded. Lots of bitter locals and aggressive homeless population. I live in the area and would suggest one vacation in Asheville and the surrounding region, but reconsider moving here long term.

Virginia Beach/Newport News/Norfolk VA? Would also like to know about Greensboro NC.

I have yet to meet anyone in DC who has gone to Winston-Salem for anything, unless they had family there.

Asheville also is not a huge destination for DCers---we have arty Appalachian towns closer-by. Asheville seems to draw a core group of visitors, part-year residents and retirees from Atlanta. They also are a draw from Florida. Have been there 3x--2 were work related--it's nice enough but no need to return.

I am not sure Phoenix was ever considered overrated. In fact it never rated in my book to start with. I have been here a long while now and it never seemed like anything but rows and rows of half empty strip malls.

DCers are more likely to go to the Rehoboth, Ocean City, or the eastern Shore than the Outer Banks. Some DCers also go to Cape May, although that's more of a Philly outpost. People who go to NC from DC usually have roots there. DC has long drawn people from NC and parts of VA, but it draws from lots of other places, too. The drive, which is dependent on I-95, really sucks and there is a greater pull to places due East or West/NW toward the Shenandoah or even into WV. Charlottesville makes a nice weekend trip, but I can't imagine living there without some connection to UVA.

I know a girl from Virginia Beach. She said it was sorta trashy, she preferred her new home in Atlanta

I don’t think Atlanta is overrated by anyone. I’ve never heard anyone say anything positive about it.

^Now bigger and more expensive than ever. I suppose some people must have positive feelings towards it.

Is Galveston underrated? It always looks so pretty in the pictures I've seen, and the cooling breezes from the Gulf of Mexico must make the temperatures far more bearable than more inland Texas cities.

[quote]I think Houston is underrated too. No one cares about it - it’s in TX. But with zero /negative expectations, it pleasantly surprises. Vibrant gayborhood, great food, good art, diverse population. One of the most underrated major cities in US.

It's been one of the fastest growing cities for decades. How is it underrated? It gets massive deductions, however, for being absolutely hideous. Flat, swampy, shitty infrastructure with ditches filled with standing water everywhere, perhaps the ugliest poverty in the country... Places a few miles from downtown look like rural Mississippi. It's rated right where it should be.

I'm not Black but Black people I know rave about Atlanta. They love being in a city so predominately Black. It must be nice to not be a tiny minority.

New Orleans is like a tropical Baltimore.

R169, Black people say similar things about DC, particularly the entire DMV metro area.

Baltimore

Don't tell anybody, but if you want to get away from big city woes, then IMO America's best kept secret is...

Rome, Georgia. It is Georgia but among cities its size you won't find more culture than in Rome. It's really a lovely place.

R163, depends upon which DCers you hang with. I don’t hang with Lilly White DCers. I hang with a bunch of native DCers and people of color. They go to NC a lot

Yes, black and brown people love DC, ATL, Raleigh, Greensboro, and Charlotte. Snooty white elites who really aren’t fond of POC tend not to.

JFK: Washington DC has the charm of the North and the efficiency of the South.

R176, It seems like it would be the reversed. The efficiency of the north, charm of the south.

Maybe Jack ran into more difficulties than you have, R177.

R177, that was the point of JFK's remark.

The urban heat effect in DC is horrible. It's like being in a swamp because it is a swamp in part. I sweated out six summers there.

[quote] Is Galveston underrated? It always looks so pretty in the pictures I've seen, and the cooling breezes from the Gulf of Mexico must make the temperatures far more bearable than more inland Texas cities.

No. And the temperatures aren't much better than Houston. It has some pretty buildings and history and a couple of nice restaurants. In general its a modest beach town focused on summer holiday-makers.

[quote] JFK: Washington DC has the charm of the North and the efficiency of the South. But then I made that remark almost 65 years ago so things might have changed in the ensuing half century

Fixed

Burlington Vermont. Bring your trust fund. The kind of town where you dress down to look like your parents' "help". Cuisine? Oh, something like chicken-fried chicken livers 'n' waffles with red-eye gravy and some cute named microbrews.

[quote] Atlanta. Shitty downtown, fake friendly southerners and unbelievable traffic. Was only there for four days and felt I'd seen it all.

In other words, you know little to nothing.

No, r184, I think he knows a lot about Georgia's version of Alma-Ata.

Any city is no more than what you make of it. Some cities are a bit harder to figure out than others, but if you work at it you can make any city a good place to live. It just takes work, and sadly too many people today want everything handed to them because they're too lazy to breathe.

But, as overrated cities go, there are no 2 bigger ones than NYC and LA. If you're not loaded or have an especially good job life in either of them is a misery.

How about Philly? Is that underrated or rated? I imagine it's in the same rank as Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and Norfolk. Mid-tier mid-atlantic cities

I am a lifelong New Yorker (4th generation) and I agree with you R186.

I have often thought that if I was in a career where I knew I would never make at least $100K (probably $150K these days) that my quality of life would be infinitely better elsewhere.

There are plenty of cities where someone making a schoolteacher's salary can eventually buy a condo or at least rent a very nice apartment in an upscal complex with pools and tennis courts, etc. In NYC they'd be living in a tiny apartment in the far reaches of an outer borough unless they happened to luck into a rent controlled Manhattan apartment.

R173 Rome, Ga. is lovely. It also has the most beautiful college campus. In fact in 2015 the campus of Berry College was named as the most beautiful campus on earth.

That's just on earth R189

That same year, Princeton's campus was named most beautiful campus in the entire universe

Dallas, Atlanta, & Charlotte.

R27 The giant, fat squirrels I kept seeing in Portland, ME were as scary as fuck.

R165, there's one loon on here that defends Atlanta with all their might, yet never gives examples of what makes it so great. I'm surprised they haven't scratched and hissed in this thread yet.

R193 We know what makes it great. Swinging Richards....Oh wait, they are now all pubic shavers....forget it.

Atlanta is odd in the people who love it there really love it but there are many people, myself included, who don't really get the appeal--the fact that a hot restaurant could be in a strip mall in Buckhead in between a Panera and a Supercuts always seemed to sum it up. I have not spent a whole lot of time there though--some business trips and a wedding-- and I'm open to the notion that I have missed the best parts

Some people love it because they aren’t effete elitists

I LOVED New Orleans. Great food and the people were the best from any city I've been in. A littlre too small town-ish acting but super nice people that aren't in it just for the $$ like NYC.

I would say maybe L.A as overrated but I'm not sire the definition fits because its always had plenty of detractors as well as fans. I hated it though.

Nothing to do with being effete or elitist R196--more about "is it a suburb? a city? Neither?"

Atlanta seems to combine the worst features of both

NYC - It's just not worth it.

I love New Orleans too. It has a strange aura of creepiness, decay, but even so, I find it exciting - and that feeling is a necessary ingredient. The best part is the French Quarter imo - the architecture, music, food, strange little shops, street vendors. It feels the most like Italy to me, though it's been decades since I spent a lot of time in Italy, but even so - so many American cities have a sameness, so commercial and ugly Interstate, traffic-jam, box store shit.

Oh I think San Francisco is cool too. Miami's ok but best if you're rich. Haven't been to Honolulu or Boston - but I'd expect to like them ok.

All the West coast, from Portland to San Diego. Expensive cities, full of pollution, traffic and crime, and I always feel quite distant from where the fun is (East coast, Europe, Latin America, Mediterrean).

Austin is BORING. 6TH Street is for young trashy people.

I like R143 underated list. Keep it that way please.

[quote] Austin - omg for the love of Christ I wish people would stop talking about this place. Outside of downtown it’s ugly as fuck. Drive on Congress St., south past Ben White omg yuck

Every part of Texas is a ghastly redneck filled shithole. Driving around any part of a major metropolitan area in Texas is horrifying. Houston, Dallas= hideous.

Houston is decent

Why anyone on a gay board would ever consider living in fucking Tulsa, OK of all places or any of these southern or Texas shitholes is remarkable to me given the current political state.

Abortion is about to be banned. Gay marriage and rights are next. We are seconds from a full blown civil war. I wouldn’t be caught dead in some supposed liberal bubble town in a red state when you’re surrounded by rednecks ready to end you if they’re legally able.

I mean, Idaho, Iowa, Tennessee for fucks sake? Are you nuts? They’re all five minutes away from Gilead. The only livable places in America currently are the far West Coast, New England, New York, parts of New Jersey and Illinois. Unless Pennsylvania is taken back any time soon they’re also unlivable. As gays our choices are VERY limited. I’m not living in any state that doesn’t have EXPLICIT laws that protect me from crazy straight people, especially considering the current climate. I have zero interest in being murdered by some homophobic redneck who will then get off with a light sentence because of gay hatred and panic.

A lot of you are REALLY delusional about how gays are perceived outside of liberal bubbles, especially Gen Z and even millennials who have experienced little to no adversity. You are not liked, and you’re not protected, and you will be among the first to suffer if something goes seriously wrong in this country. The fact that gays don’t make an effort to protect themselves geographically is always shocking to me. I moved away to go to school in NY at 16 and never looked back.

Wake the fuck up. Oh, and the Republibots and Boris sock puppets can block me and move on. I won’t respond to your bullshit.

R194, Swinging Richards closed in March.

R26, everyone here isn’t like you. 😒

In my job I work with branches and offices throughout the country-

The coolest and happiest from my stupid vantage point-

Tampa San Diego- By far the happiest that I deal with Phoenix Inland Empire CA Pittsburgh (I know)

Assholes- Miserable-Liars

Dallas Baltimore Virginia Philly AUSTIN- I HATE THOSE MOTHERFUCKERS Los Angeles Seattle- Weird people.

[quote] the fact that a hot restaurant could be in a strip mall in Buckhead in between a Panera and a Supercuts always seemed to sum it up.

^Couldn't have said it better myself. What goes for hot spots and class is baffling.

Not everyone is an effete snob. Most aren’t

Another vote for Portland, Maine. Moved here 15 years ago and while Maine can be a glorious place to live, Portland is depressing, overrun with Massholes, immigrants from the Horn of Africa and of course the literal busloads of drug addict homeless that New York and Massachusetts sends here every day. Like most of Maine, the people of Portland let it go on so long that they lost control and not the city’s government is controlled by the local Democrat Socialists, all of whom are pretty affluent but who impose increasingly more draconian policies and rules onto the city.

Portland, Maine has begun to remind people of what Dorchester, Massachusetts used to be. Or like Worcester, Mass. Both of them hazy, torn up, trashy and miserable places to exist.

The very wealthy keep condos here or stay in the enclave of the East End/Munjoy Hill while the rest of the once charming little city rots around us. It’s become two things in Portland: hotels and homeless. That’s it. Barely good enough for short visit vacations anymore.

[quote] The only livable places in America currently are the far West Coast, New England, New Jersey, parts of New York and Illinois.

Fixed that for you R206

NJ is largely suburbia whereas most of NY State outside of metro NYC and some of the Hudson Valley is MAGA-land. Remember that GOP Bovine Elise Stepanik is from upstate NY and appears to be quite popular in her district and not just with the dairy farmers.

Good take on Houston, R147. I agree. I always enjoy going there. Not sure I'd want to deal with the heat, humidity, and bugs and live there, but I've been there enough to know I could make a decent life for myself if I had a great job offer or something. Has downsides - the traffic, the sprawl, but what city doesn't? I sort of feel like I shouldn't complain about traffic. Every vibrant, big city in the US that I like has bad traffic. Houston also very diverse, including people from all over the world.

In response to VA Beach/Norfolk - one of the most strangely depressing areas I’ve been to. I worked there for a year. Despite the military base - seemingly no hot guys. Never found a gay bar or community, A mix of black and white but not much else. Not pretty. Just a generally odd and unattractive place - seems like a place people end up rather than choose to live. Even though it’s not that remote, it’s not easy to get to other major cities like DC. No reason to go there.

"I'm not Black but Black people I know rave about Atlanta. They love being in a city so predominately Black. It must be nice to not be a tiny minority."

This is true, but the city itself, while still very Black, has become less so as a lot of the east side neighborhoods gentrified over the past 20 years. Nevertheless, tons of Black people still in the city and the metro area. ATL was once considered a "Black mecca" among black people (it still is for many, but at one time it was so intense that lots of articles were written about it). It was aspirational and lots of Black people moved there from all over - it was a Black hub, a Black LBGTQ hub, and that coincided with Atlanta moving from being a regional city to a national city. There were jobs to be had, cheaper rents and real estate to get ahead, and, again, lots of Black folks - of every variety. That variety really appealed to people. Not only not being a small minority, but having Black folks of all stripes.

That said, plenty of Black people don't like Atlanta - either via visiting or living there. And hearing Black people rant about their dashed dreams of Atlanta is always entertaining. I still think it's up to the individual to carve a life for themselves wherever they live and people too quickly fall back on "it's the city's fault." Flip side, clearly every place isn't for everybody and Atlanta can be "a lot" even if you appreciate not being a small minority.

Preach R206!

r206 and r217... do you really think it is so easy to uproot one's life and move? People don't always have a choice of where to live. It takes economic security to make such a change, and people have friends/family and other deep connections with their communities that be very difficult to rupture. Instead, I think we need to defend members of our community no matter where they live.

I get why Austin gets so much press, and why it is overrated once you get there. I lived in DFW for several years. I thought I could live anywhere, then I moved to DFW and discovered I was mistaken. It is so flat. The weather should be nice, but it is 105 degrees for most of the time, then drops to 70s for two days and you have the 40s for a month or two- then 2 days of 70s and back up to 105. Everything is shiny and new but that is because it was basically inhabitable before air conditioning. Dallas is dead on the weekends, tumbleweeds. I was invited to bible study almost on a daily basis and people prayed constantly- before every meeting and I do not work or attend anything religious. There was no diversity, a big line separating the two sides- people with color and white people. You had to drive for everything. And then there is the general attitude of "I can do whatever the fuck i want." For example, I learned if I used my blinker to change lanes it signaled the lane over to accelerate as quickly as possible to prevent someone from treading on their private highway- that kind of attitude permeating everything. Add to that the flyers we would get on our cars- that "liberals" were busing in people to vote xyz way- constant anger and conspiracy theories.

So if you are from Texas, stuck in Texas Austin must seem like a haven and it probably is comparatively but no way could I be bothered to go. Oh- and the horrendous fashion- the newscasters, people etc. so so so bad.

San Francisco

Dallas is so underwhelming. I’ve never seen a big city with such a dead downtown. There was like tumbleweed after 6:00 pm

It’s done all over the world every day, R218. I did it myself decades ago as a gayling to escape the real horrors of life as a despised minority in a shithole red state. The circumstances today seem far more dire to me. I’d rather be destitute in a blue state than worrying about incarceration in a red state.

I think Philadelphia is okay and has all kinds of potential. Did someone call it a mid-sized city though? It gets hot and cold (weather), but not too hot or too cold most of the time.

I lived in Norfolk about 30 years ago, and did not like it. But now that Virginia Beach is so big, maybe it's different. Anyway, it just felt like no one was a permanent resident there. It was very temporary. (I think a poster above said this about DC). It's all military or medical students. Everyone can't wait to get out. Also, it is off the beaten path. It's two hours off of I-95, I believe. One hour to Williamsburg and another hour to Norfolk. People who aren't on the East Coast might not understand what a big deal the Amtrak lines and I-95 are here. It's a big deal. Big cities and college campuses all along it.

I also found living on Long Island (not big cities) disagreeable. Most of the people there had chips on their shoulders that they weren't from Manhattan. Like, really weird people. And cut off from the world by all of those crazy bridges.

I would like to see the beautiful campus in Rome, GA and to compare it to Princeton. The pictures are nice.

R212- I had no idea things were getting like that in Portland- Wow.

I do know that the homeless population there was bad, even 15 years ago.

There were a lot of homeless living at Thompsons Point (South Portland) before they started developing it..

[quote] the fact that a hot restaurant could be in a strip mall in Buckhead in between a Panera and a Supercuts always seemed to sum it up.

Houston is like that too. Also Houston: It is very hot and humid but everything in air conditioned. No one's really walking around there in the summer. Houston is growing a lot. It's a more interesting place with a better restaurant scene than it used to be. The state politics suck obviously.

The lack of walking is why Houston Is an unhealthy place to live. And the food and pollution

New Orleans reminds you of Italy, R200? Where, Naples?

EXACTLY R222. Migration from torturous hellholes all around the world is a real thing. Millions are doing it now from Ukraine. It happens all the time. We are a despised minority. Social migration for many gays is an absolute must.

I really wish the US had more dense walkable cities like Europe. Not even entire cities, but more cities with significant areas where this was the case.

No one walks in Houston. And tons of fast food. LA has the same sprawl but you'll see more people walking in LA. Houston's working on its light rail but LA has better public transit infrastructure. It takes longer than driving but LA has had some incentive to manage the car problem for decades so there's more public transit options than people know.

I don't find Madison a bit overrated. Perhaps one of the most pleasant, urbane and beautiful cities I know of.

Ann Arbor. It’s okay, but not great

Oklahoma City

New York City

NYC

F219 - is a perfect description of why Dallas is almost uninhabitable as a gay man. It’s a uniquely horrific city. Houston, Atlanta, Phoenix, Nashville, Denver - some redeeming qualities and you can make a life there. Dallas is a big city that holds absolutely zero appeal - and very gay man I’ve known has disliked it.

Philly has a lot going for it. But it will always be “not-NYC”. Which is what makes it affordable. Everything you need in a city - gayborhood, great food, diversity, culture, lots of colleges, good public transit, walkable But the “personality” - gruffness, absence of ambition, “good enough”, lots of people just getting by - can be a problem. But unlike Dallas, it’s a city you can find a life in - with very liberal, beautiful areas and suburbs - and escape that attitude and most do the negatives. Hard to say if it’s underrated or overrated - as you will find an almost equal number of people who say they hate it as say they love it,

I know of many gay men who like living in Dallas. And bi guys too

No one knows "many" bi guys R237

One or two at most.

I like Philly and root for it. It doesn't have the international reputation of NY. It doesn't really register in the conversation within NY even though it was touted as "the sixth borough" for a while there. Is it fair to call it a more working class city? It had some unpretentious and grit to it I like and interesting American historical features.

R206 stated it all very perfectly.

If you live in Dallas, you're still in the shithole called Texas.

San Francisco is sleeping on the sidewalk underneath a grimy blanket. Waiting to become the abortion capital of the world.

Any tips of nice areas of Philly to buy a small condo in?

When will people shut up about Des Moines? That's all I ever hear about: Des Moines, Des Moines, Des Moines! I don't care how hip Des Moines is.

R244 yuck Des Moines is too fucking white.,Like epic level white.. yuck

Philadelphia has the fourth largest economy of any city in the US and the ninth of any city in the world. Also, it’s growing. I believe their population increased by 5% since the past census, and given it’s basically a city in a rust belt state, that’s pretty impressive. Don’t sleep on Pittsburgh either which has been under steady renovation and has the biggest tech growth industry in the nation. The rest of the state is a fucking Refucklican shithole which the city dwellers need to counter every fucking election. It should NEVER go Republican. It’s far better than Ohio which is a complete dump.

[quote] Philadelphia has the fourth largest economy of any city in the US and the ninth of any city in the world

Do you have a reference for that?

R246 I wish i could past the horrendous Philly accent.

Boise is nice

Rome, Georgia is in Marjorie Taylor Greene's district. Anyone who voted for her, I don't want to be around, ever. Hard pass.

Is there a Palm Springs of the east coast? Like it's a town with mostly gay people, but it's not just a vacation place like Provincetown and Fire Island

I hope not. Palm Springs is horrible

Plus, Palm Springs isn't mostly gay people. An impressive percentage, yes, but there's plenty of straights.

Anyone been to Savannah? Is it worth the trip.

R252 I thought people just hated the Springs because of the heat and maybe the tourism

DL seems to think Wilton Manors in Ft. Lauderdale is the East Coast Palm Springs

Thanks. I will avoid it too

"I've looked at Denver housing recently, just out of curiosity, and they've got million dollar homes all squeezed up close to each other. What idiot would do that?"

I meant who the heck would spend that amount of dough on a house a spit from their neighbors?

They probably weren't million dollar houses when they were built. A million dollar home in the comparable Portland, Oregon is a three bedroom 2 bath on 1/8th an acre with houses next to and behind.

I should say that million dollar home was not built this century.

Do you have the internet and Google R247? I’m not your fucking intern. In the thirty seconds it took you to post that you could have looked it up.

Nashville.

OP- Since we’re taking about overrated -

French cuisine is THE most overrated cuisine in the world 🌎.

I’ll take Italian food over French food any day.

Assume the job stats are for Philly metro. A huge portion of Philly area jobs are in the suburbs - Malvern, King of Prussia, Conshohocken - because Philly is one of the few cities in US with a separate income tax for anyone who works there. Only NYC can get away with that - but Philly is so addicted to it, they can’t stop. So all the companies go to the suburbs to save 3.5%+ - ex, Vanguard. There are a ton of jobs in suburban Philly in pharma, tech, financial services. A shame as it sucks away money and people from Center City and forces people to use cars instead of the well established and extensive Philly public transit system centered on Center City.

R264- King 🤴 Of Prussia and West New York , New Jersey are two funny names for towns - but I like them both.

The houses built on this particular block were done so about 15 years ago, r259. No doubt they were expensive when they first went up, and I would not buy a home like that if I had that kind of money. I have noticed other houses in Denver, maybe CO in general, are often built much too close for my liking.

Palm Springs and Ft Lauderdale are tourist destinations. PS, in particular, is as cyclical as Provincetown. It just happens to be bigger.

Philadelphia is not the fourth largest economy in the US and it certainly isn’t the ninth largest in the world or whatever the confused r246 said. It’s the sixth largest city, seventh largest MSA, and eighth largest CSA in the country. It had the 9th largest US metro GDP in 2017. It has not ascended five spots. Its economy has been…fine, but it is not an over performer (the opposite is true).

[quote] PS, in particular, is as cyclical as Provincetown.

There have to be more gays who own homes and live there year round though

Not to hammer the point.. I know they both are known for vacationers. Palm Springs has population of 48,390 (as much as 1/2 gay?). Provincetown in winter is just 2800 people.

R269: Are you blind? I mentioned that PS was larger.

Roanoke

Vancouver BC is an overhyped dull city with an ugly downtown in a beautiful setting. The people are monied snobby jerks who think that lululemon is peak fashion.

Real estate is becoming unaffordable in Philadelphia now. Gentrification is taking over like a cancer. The value of my house has increased by 75%…but the taxes! I think that my veteran status may help me…have to investigate it.

[quote] Do you have the internet and Google [R247]? I’m not your fucking intern. In the thirty seconds it took you to post that you could have looked it up.

It's long-standing Datalounge Netiquette that if you offer up a statistic, then if challenged [bold]you[/bold] are absolutely the one who had better back the statistic up with evidence.

You may not be r247's fucking intern, but you clearly are a fucking asshole.

Not the OP but just to settle the argument, Philly is not 4th in the US, it’s 9th.

[quote] With a gross domestic product of $388 billion, the city of Philadelphia alone ranks ninth among world cities and fourth in the nation. The city is also the nation's fourth-largest consumer media market, as ranked by the Nielsen Media Research. The city is also home to the Philadelphia Stock Exchange.

I meant GDP, not economy. It’s fourth in the nation and ninth in the world.

Calm down.

That was from R246 above.

Wow - Philly is big. Helpful info R277. Never knew that.

[quote] Do you have the internet and Google [R247]? I’m not your fucking intern. In the thirty seconds it took you to post that you could have looked it up.

Yeah, no. I did use Google FIRST which is why I wondered where we found Philly the 9th biggest GDP in the world. It still doesn't make sense.

[quote] the fourth largest economy of any city in the US and the ninth of any city in the world

Try the ninth largest in the US.

[quote]Definitely Miami.

Agreed. I couldn’t believe how modern and boring the architecture is. It’s mostly just ugly modern office buildings that all look the same and very few old stucco buildings.

[quote] Are you blind? I mentioned that PS was larger.

I was questioning if it's really as cyclical as Ptown given a larger population and a year round one at that.

Asheville, NC is overrated. The healthcare sucks and the place is full of uptight virtue signaling hipsters

Learn how to read.

Atlanta, GA. Ugly downtown.

R284 that’s contradicted in r276.

Philadelphia is cool but should be even better. It has a fantastic location. The weather is not terrible. (Trenton, NJ also has a fantastic location, but really needs some work. It needs some love.) Anyway, for those who don't know, Philadelphia is a real city. It will just never be New York.

I agree that Philadelphia is underrated -- there's a lot to do there, great architecture in parts and a sizeable number of colleges and universities both in the city proper and right outside.

It suffers though because people rarely move there from elsewhere--there's no influx of recent college grads moving there for jobs the way there is in the other big Acela Corridor cities - Boston, NY and Washington

[quote] Learn how to read.

R284 That's a 2013 study based on 2008 data.

South Philly Italian Market grease pole climbing contest

Philly has been drawing more out of towners in the last couple decades. The whole "New Brooklyn" thing, but also elsewhere in the region. In the past people complained about the insularity of the place. Not so much anymore.

This is stupid because it's basic geography and it's right thereon the map, but I always think Philly is further west and north than it is - and thus more isolated - like where Scranton is. But it's right in the middle of it the Eastern corridor. Close to NYC, close to Baltimore and the DMV. So in addition to its own bona fides, it's nicely located.

Be that as it may R291, it is still not at the level that even smaller cities are at when it comes to attracting recent grads

Baltimore is in the same boat--charming city, low cost of living, but tends not to draw many people in from elsewhere

Texarkana

All the people promoting Philly are not mentioning the crime rate there when compared to NYC or Boston. On a scale of 1-100 Bestplaces rates Philly at 50.8; NYC at 28.2; and Boston at 37.3. with 100 being the highest crime rate. I'd rather be in mainline.

How's the crime in Baltimore, that someone mentioned upthread as a good place?

Ummm. Somebody tell him

I don't think anyone is saying Philadelphia is perfect. I think most of us are saying it has incredible potential, especially in a world that is running out of desirable real estate. Philadelphia does have a nearly perfect location.

Baltimore clocks in at 77.8 whew!

Thank you R299. Well, could be worse.

Nashville, Denver, Asheville, Seattle, Austin, NYC - yawn

The crime rate in Philly and anywhere else reflects the whole city, which means it varies a lot. It's like trying to make pearl clutching about one crime in a city of 8 million be a crime wave. I grew-up in a dull middle class suburban neighborhood where not much happened and people felt safe, yet we had a murderer in the neighborhood (a couple years ahead of me in school) and there were people whose houses we couldn't visit because the parents were known to be abusive. The world is not a simple place.

I love Philly's narrow little streets in the older part of the city—they're so cute! Also, their city hall is a gorgeous building (if you ignore all the A/C units hanging out the windows).

DL, what do you think of Toledo, OH?

Cleveland is preferable to Toledo. Cleveland struck me as a smaller, Midwestern version of Philly. Toledo seemed more like Scranton or Reading. Dying City that doesn’t have much hope for gentrification. As opposed to Cleveland which seems to have sparks of renewal.

Overrated bump.

What city is NOT overrated? No place is perfect. You have to weigh the options and what is important to you.

To me, the Bay Area is perfect. The weather alone is enough reason to live there. If money were no object, I’d live in Half Moon Bay.

R307, what's the price of gasoline in Half Moon Bay?

The answer is anywhere your mom lives!

I loved this thread!!! Portland Maine is worse now than it was THEN. NO jobs. Supremely overpriced housing (Thank you Boston remote workers)- Its laughable.

I predict in 5-10 years, Portland will have an abundance of housing- as this economy dies.

(I do like Freeport!)

Cackle cackle r308. ;)

Branson, MO

That’s what makes Philadelphia so nice. It’s perpetually underrated but actually a nice place to live in.