Lies America tells about itself

Best healthcare system in the world

Equality under the law

If you work hard, you can be successful

Democracy- sure Jan

Best economic system in the world

Freedom of speech

EQUALITY

Your body, your choice, then circumcision.

[quote]If you work hard, you can be successful

Wages for working class and most middle class people in this country have not kept pace with increases in cost of living, particularly housing and education. Wage gaps between the highest and lowest paid individuals in a given company have become enormous.

We have become an oligarchy.

[quote] Best healthcare system in the world

I don't know about this one. I think expensive & exorbitant health care costs have been a longstanding gripe amongst Americans. The ACA has helped me, personally, bring down my insurance costs.

Best country in the world.

That they're somehow exceptional to other countries. Honestly, most other western democracies seem to hold to the values the US claims it does better. In the US things like the recent Florida "Don't Say Gay" bill is straight out of Russia's playbook. The attitude to religion is more akin to theocracies in the Middle East sometimes. It's interesting when observing from outside.

Also that they are a "moderate" country. The US, at least from outside, is much more of a "centre-Right" country. Or maybe it's best to say, the centrist position in the US is much more centre-Right to those of us looking in.

No one believes these lies anymore. America is a failed experiment.

“One nation, indivisible.”

Fact is, the first Civil War never really ended. And now the treasonous Confederates are on the brink of finally winning it.

america includes mexico, canada, and central and south america as well. They need to stop calling themselves “americans”

[quote]“liberty and justice for all”

Francis Bellamy, who wrote the Pledge of Allegiance, deliberately left out "equality" because he thought Americans would never treat women and African Americans as equals. So even that phrase derives from a place of cynicism.

[quote] Bellamy considered the slogan of the French Revolution, Liberté, égalité, fraternité ("liberty, equality, fraternity"), but held that "fraternity was too remote of realization, and … [that] equality was a dubious word."[20] Concluding "Liberty and justice were surely basic, were undebatable, and were all that any one Nation could handle. If they were exercised for all. They involved the spirit of equality and fraternity."[20]

Separation of church and state.

If this shit was true, God wouldn't appear on our money or any other government document.

R3 r9 We've become that line from the 90s Everclear song What it's Like : " Where it ends mostly depends on where you start"

It's not perfect. Where else are going to go?

Innocent until proven guilty.

The notion that the U.S. is any less corrupt than Russia or India or any other “turd world” country. We practice corruption on a truly epic scale - but here we call it “campaign finance” and enshrine it as “free speech.”

Bring me your tired, your…oh, skip it…

The worst things about America are healthcare and crazy high taxes and the cost of education. Other than that, it is still better than most other countries. People who bitch about it just suck at life.

Life itself is unfair. The people who ruin it, along with the rich, are the ones that don't try to make things better. The lazy ones that blame everyone else for their problems. You know and we know who you are,

That our rampant capitalist oligarchy leads to both Progress and Innovation.

Momma’s pussy’s open for business

Fascism? That can never happen here

[Quote] I don't know about this one. I think expensive & exorbitant health care costs have been a longstanding gripe amongst Americans. The ACA has helped me, personally, bring down my insurance costs.

If you looks at health outcomes, healthcare access, and cost, the US’ system doesn’t even make the top 20

In God we trust ... while dancing around a golden calf.

We do this to protect our children!

Children are the future.

Capitalism is wonderful but socialism is horrendous.

The truth is only the middle class has to deal with raw capitalism. The rich benefit from socialism, particularly when they lose money

America is exceptional!!

Trickle-Down Economics works!

We have to kill them over there, so we don't have to kill them over here.

"Nowhere else in the world has the freedoms we do!"

“An armed society is a polite society.” Gun fetishists actually believe that.

[Quote] It's not perfect. Where else are going to go?

Europe. Almost anywhere in Western Europe

The rich are the job creators

Guns keep us safe!

Guns, fuck yeah!

No one is above the law.

I find that INFURIATING! The rich and powerful are ALWAYS above the law.

[quote]america includes mexico, canada, and central and south america as well. They need to stop calling themselves “americans”

^ stupid nonsense

Donald Trump is certainly above the law.

Prince Harry thinks the US version of freedom of speech (First Amendment) is "bonkers," so it must be better than the UK's.

R43 & R44, off topic thread derailers

That it's the greatest country in the world (it certainly is not). Or that its citizens are free and equal (WTF?). Except for the richest , the vast majority of people in the USA are locked in a hamster wheel that is quickly devolving further into a dystopian nightmare.

I left the USA at age 23 after winning an audition for a philharmonic orchestra in Asia and never looked back. I've lived and worked in 15 countries, on four continents. I'm semi-retired now; I have four beautiful homes, in three countries. I wouldn't return to the USA for anything.

In all of the countries where I have been fortunate to live, the standard of living and quality of life are hands-down, superior to the USA.

Meritrocracy.

R47 M e r i t o c r a c y

Our best days are ahead of us.

One person, one vote.

It's a free country...

That Ronald Reagan was a great president.

The entire Pledge of Allegiance is a lie and frankly creepy

"It's normal for a western country to have homeless people on every corner! Poverty is the result of poor individual choices and nothing more!"

That Christopher Columbus (NOT Cristobal Colon) "discovered" us, eliminating hundreds/thousands of years of human history in a single word.

You could write an encyclopedia on this topic

Everything they taught us Saturday mornings on Schoolhouse Rock was a lie

New York is the greatest city in the world.

Three is not the magic number? That interjections aren’t generally set apart from a sentence by an exclamation point, or by a comma when it’s not quite as strong? Sacajawea didn’t lead them all across the countryside? I’m heartbroken R58

The check is in the mail.

America is the best place to live. Why would anyone live anywhere else

Lots of Canadians come to the US for healthcare because their system is so bad.

Turns out that was a big lie created by insurance companies.

The rest of the world comes to the US for healthcare because it’s so good here!

The truth is 2 million Americans leave the US for healthcare every year. About 400k foreigners do come to the US but mainly South Americans coming for cosmetic procedures

[Quote] Lots of Canadians come to the US for healthcare because their system is so bad.

I never understood that taking point. Why would you leave a country that offered excellent healthcare for free and fly to the US, pay for hotel, to pay thousands of dollar for the same procedure. Maybe, if you’re really wealthy and want the procedure faster—but the average Canadian isn’t doing that

America, America GOD gave this land to me (and not them, that's why we had to kill them).

The sad thing is that every one of these (mostly) legitimate critiques is that we could solve them and fulfill the United States' promise if the people wanted it. The people do not. They want to believe the lies and pretend that the political parties are equivalent when it is obvious on its face that one of the parties is for facism and the other is for democracy, and it's easy to tell the difference: just look at the names of the parties. And I know this will cue the trolls into trying to point out the corruption of the Democrats, the sins of labor leaders, blah, blah, blah... but at the end of the day, the fact remains that the Republicans are fine with dictators, fascism and state control over our minds, lives and bodies, and Democrats still believe in democracy.

It takes three millenials to work the drive through at Dunkin donuts as people wait at the counter!

Oh cut the bullshit with that tired nonsense, R41.

Or else!

R46, sorry if this is off topic, but does playing in an orchestra in Asia pay well enough to allow you to buy four homes? Or did you just inherit a pile of money?

Poppies will make them sleep, R69.

Justice is blind.

That is the biggest CROCK, especially these days.

R69 No, I didn't come from money or inherit any; in fact, I had zero familial support. I've just worked constantly and had a solid international career as a symphony/opera musician and soloist with orchestras since I was 17. The aforementioned work I had in Japan (which did pay incredibly well) was 25 years ago; I'm 49 now and have done quite a lot since.

I also started collecting art in my late 20s and have sold a number of pieces since their value appreciated.

“The Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave”

Free and fair elections!

[quote]It takes three millenials to work the drive through at Dunkin donuts as people wait at the counter!

You are so fucking dumb. The oldest millennials are now 41 years old and well into mid-level management corporate careers.

All are equal and all life matters. Except the poor abd disabled.

The food might not be better than other countries, but the JUNK FOOD is better than other countries.

Actually no. Aside from the fructose in everything, with notable exceptions, it’s overly chemified and poorly tasting compared to that of other countries.

“God bless America” - why would God be interested in America?

R10 doesn't understand the thread topic. It's about LIES. R10 replies like everyone thinks it's true.

2 dumb asses clicked WW.

Three stooges total.

No image ever captured this better than Margaret Bourke-White's The American Way.

We love all gay people!

That stuff in the poem written on the books held by the Statue of Liberty.

Hate the sin, love the sinner!

You can wear the bridesmaid’s dress again for another event.

Again, for R46 (sorry, OT) -- where are your homes? Are there any countries (not in Asia) in which I can live decently on $2000/month?

For a country that has so many diverse people and different ways of thinking, I think we do ok.

It's not that we're divided, we're just different. Lots of different people. Show me another country with such diverse people and divergent thinking that get along ok.

R86, define "get along okay."

We just had a president whose platform was to divide people

[quote] Show me another country with such diverse people and divergent thinking that get along ok.

Pretty much every other country in the world has diverse people with divergent thinking.

You need to get out more often.

YOU are so fucking dumb, millenials can be as young as 26, born in 1996. But happy to throw in some Gen Z's, too! Enjoy your sugar donut, jammed up your nasty butt.

[quote] We just had a president whose platform was to divide people

Yep, we sure did... and now we have another one whose platform is to divide us even further!

Wow, an entire thread devoted to how much Dems hate America.

So, another lie--change in management results in change in direction our collective ship is headed.

TROLL thread

[quote] Yep, we sure did... and now we have another one whose platform is to divide us even further!

How exactly is Biden dividing us? By claiming that LGBT and other minorities are good people too? Yes, that makes conservatives hate us more.

Trump actually sides with the American Nazis

[quote] Wow, an entire thread devoted to how much Dems hate America.

The Repubs love America mainly because they can suck as much money out of tax payers as they want with impunity and give it to their big business supporters.

Republicans love Russia and other dictatorships.

That’s a lie r96? Maybe in the 80s, but it sure as shit is true now even though they wrap themselves in the flag and whine about freedom while being traitors trying to control everyone they don’t like.

No, r97, it’s a response to the notion that Republicans “love America” because of our low taxes. They might love that aspect, and our freedom to own guns, but that’s about it. They hate freedom, pluralism, and democracy.

That the US government since WWII has backed foreign dictatorships to "save" the people of those countries from Communism.

R23. What developed country will you move to that has lower taxes this. America? The tax rates are one of the few things that make me think of moving back to the US.

R100, where do you live? If the taxes are too high, then move back to America.

The founding principles are corrupted. That we have : Equality under the law. Freedom of speech. Freedom of and from, religion. Actually if we followed the principles to the letter can you imagine the place. Kurt Vonnegut Jr novels comes to mind.

R101. I’ve lived several places in Europe. In general, I prefer living in Europe, but the tax rates are the price you pay for that life. Of all the complaints R23 could have made about the US the tax rates seem the least justified.

Letting everybody run around armed to the teeth with military grade weapons will keep us safer!

Our Electoral College works as a buffer, designed to prevent a deranged populist from coming to power.

r104 It certainly would in Chicago.

The rest of the world would kill to be us!

Everyone is jealous of American riches.

The rest of the world lives in primitive conditions.

We're Number One!

The United States is a Christian nation, founded on Christian beliefs.

Yes, Western Europe has higher taxes than the US but you get what you pay for—healthcare, childcare, college, etc. In the US, you have to pay extra for those necessities and much more for each.

“Fairness under the justice system”

We prosecute things that shouldn’t even be illegal, like marijuana possession and all kinds of trivial behavior. And if you are arrested and charged with a lesser offense, you pretty much have no choice but to plead guilty, unless you’re rich.

That it is a democracy that has policies which are driven by voting. This is a total illusion. Lobbyists drive our policies not voters. This is directly provable through data.

That one is supposed to think for oneself. The war coverage is a perfect example of spoon fed opinion.

“Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness”

That is of course unless you’re doing something that conservatives don’t like.

Like to smoke weed? Like going to gay bath houses? Like getting blown in the back room of gay bookstores? Hell, even cohabitation in some states. Off to jail!

Anyone want a one-way ticket to Iran?

1 million likes for your comment, R14.

And what sucks even more is that those of us who would consider living elsewhere because we see the hypocrisy and where this is all headed, cannot afford to GTFOH.

If I could, I would. Never thought I’d feel this way, EVER.

I love my country, but I no longer want to live amongst a group of brainwashed imbeciles who use Reddit or some other mindless, violence supporting forum in order to form their views.

Grow up, R114. You are part of the problem.

There’s MUCH more to this world than America or Iran.

That class mobility is only a matter of working hard. They don't tell you that >5% escape the class they were born into, decreasing with time, with lower rates of marriage between the classes and college being too expensive for the majority (even upper middle class is sticking to marrying an equal.)

[quote]America is a failed experiment.

R13 I stopped reading at this post. I don't think America has failed but it is failing. I won't give up on this experiment yet.

"Things will get better."

Only for the 1 percent my dears, only for the 1 percent.

So I have been to other countries and some countries are really great, some are not so great. And of course some do certain things better, and some things we do better. That's any country. All countries have their pluses and minuses.

But I have never come across such varied ethnicities, cultural regions, different people as in the US. Other countries have their own identity and the most of the people look similar, especially outside the major metropolitan areas. In the US you can find all sorts of various pockets of dissimilar people.

Yet for all the grumbling, haven't most of us here done better than our parents?

[R120] You really haven’t travelled much. The US only has 14% of its population born overseas. Australia has 30%, Canada has 21%. The US is ranked 17th in OECD countries for percentage born overseas.

How does a country actually tell itself lies, OP?

I often wonder how many of the folks who post in the pro-this-country or anti-that-country threads have ever visited or lived in the country they’re currently disparaging or know citizens of said country to any real degree. People are not solely about the borders of the country they were born in or grew up in. (Disclaimer: I participate in said threads, because all nations, when defined by their government institutions, are pretty sketchy.)

The US is nowhere near perfect, not even going to go there. But to pretend to understand the 300 million plus people who live in the United States, over a vast land mass, the majority of whom know and/or remember the members of their family who fist immigrated to the US, and still embrace many of those customs of their “home countries”, and how they perceive the US, its government, or even their fellow human beings, and make generalizations about how stupid, terrible and inferior they are to other countries, says more about you then whatever you think the US is.

All THAT being said, the US runs a real risk of becoming permanently beholden to a minority of crackpots who are slowly eradicating the systems of government that should prevent them from being able to do so. And that is going to be a real problem for the world at large, not just the US. And that’s not a lie.

Channel (Fill in the Blank) is "On Your Side"

R121. But that’s true of most developed countries. The US doesn’t rank all that Hugh in measures of social mobility.

All that high..

R109. Yes. That is when I was saying. Taxes are part of the lifestyle you are paying for. However if you are a middle class professional, you do net more in the end in the US than in Europe. If you have a professional job, most of your healthcare is covered by your employer. Free universities are nice, but I don’t have children. If I didn’t have the ability to hold a professional job, Europe probably would be a good deal on the whole.

The lie America tells itself is that we are a big happy melting pot of cultures and races.

We're walking on eggshells, people.

R127, You’re liberally glossing over the American health insurance system. Firstly, most of one’s healthcare is not covered by the vast majority of employers’ healthcare plans. It’s just the monthly premium and many, if not most employers, only pay 50% of the cost. And, these plans typically have deductibles of $5,000 or more and total OOP expenses coming in at 8k or even higher. That’s a massive financial burden whether single or married for anyone middle class, let alone those hovering barely above the ridiculously low official US poverty level.

Secondly, having a system of free education for all shouldn’t be viewed as comparable to free coffee refills at a breakfast joint, but instead be embraced as a critical part of people moving upward and forward with their lives and helping to improve society as a whole. It’s not a frivolous perk.

Finally, you do not net more in the US under its education or healthcare infrastructure in the long term compared to most European countries. That is abjectly false.

R227. You are responding to things that are in your head ratter than anything I have posted. My original post was in response to the person who said that one of the bad things about the US is the high rate of taxation. I found this astonishing since tax rates in almost all developed countries are higher I also acknowledged that life is more pleasant in Europe, in part because of those taxes. No one has to inform me that you get something in return for those taxes. I already stated that on my original post

I have worked within the same company in three European countries plus the US. I can tell you that I cleared vastly less, even after healthcare expenditures, in Europe and thus was also the experience of all my fellow expatriates Is is not a sms difference. Usually my net has been close to half of what it was in the Us.

I also made clear that these statements were specific to my circumstances only, given My positon as a middle class professional. You don’t need to tell me about education is not like a coffee refill since I did not and would not make such a stupid statement.

What remains of the middle class is built on the Ponzi scheme that is the housing market.

Oh, except that’s not a lie.

Accurate portrait of life in America.

Working 9-5 and paying the price. Wanting to be left alone in home. IRS always watching?

It's hard to ever really relax in the US hamster wheel.

R128, a study was done that concluded after work with its "diversity" of employees, each group goes home and socializes with people of their own heritage.

Pretty much all the "history" taught in school (public, private, parochial, all).

And more lies by omission.

R29, But that's just it---the "God" is Mammon.

Depending where you live in the US, local income, property and sales taxes can take a big bite. As do Fed SS and Medicare taxes. That is, Fed income tax rate alone far understates the tax burden for most. Of course in Eur with VAT, the tax burden is heavily hidden.

[quote]Lies America tells about itself

"No taxation without representation" -- Legislators make their millions off our taxes.

"Innocent until proven guilty."

Separation of church and state.

(Recently went to Salt Lake City)

That it is fair and just that people who reside and pay taxes in another country must also pay US income taxes for life, if they have American parentage, were born in the US or hold a green card.

That people of color resent white people. Ever notice how all those gay men of color who constantly call out white people ONLY date white men?

R140 If you live full-time in another country, why are you paying US taxes regardless of your parentage or country of birth?

The only path out is renunciation of US citizenship, a very expensive and complicated process. But even this path has been blocked by US embassies everywhere since 2020 due to Covid.

The American Dream.

[quote]Of course in Eur with VAT, the tax burden is heavily hidden. / R136

Hiding in plain sight, maybe. The price marked on something is the price you pay in Europe. If I buy an item marked €1.20 in France or €1.21 in Spain, I see where the 20% or 21% VAT is up front; there's no surprise in taking a €1 item to a cash register and being asked to pay €1.27 in Hungary, or maybe €1.18 or €1.05 depending on the classifications of certain foodstuffs. The price marked is what you pay in Europe; whereas Europeans find it odd that they never know the final price of anything in the U.S. until they are in the process of paying for it.

[quote]That it is fair and just that people who reside and pay taxes in another country must also pay US income taxes for life, if they have American parentage, were born in the US or hold a green card. / R136, R140, R143.

It depends on where you are and how much you make. Many countries have reciprocal agreements with the U.S. on income tax in which tax liabilities for residents (not necessarily citizens) of non-U.S. countries are apportioned between two countries. Tax residency in many countries (U.S. included) is determined by how many days you spend there in a year, example: an American who spends 183 days or more in certain European countries establishes a tax obligation to those countries and reduces his tax obligation to the U.S. The rules vary by country but that's a common measure. Spend all year in such a country and you would owe no U.S. federal income tax below $108,000 or so. Retaining citizenship in the U.S. but living in a reciprocal tax agreement country would mean you paid no tax if you income were $108,000 or less, but you do have to file forms every year in the U.S. so long as you are a citizen.

Renouncing U.S. citizenship is not that difficult. You complete a simple form and deliver it to a U.S. embassy. It costs $2350 to renounce U.S. citizenship. If you have substantial assets there may be additional costs to move them outside the U.S You remain eligible for Social Security and Medicare (for whatever little good that would be) after renunciation. You may be required to pay an exit tax if your tax liability average for the past 5 years exceeds $162,000 annually, or if certain types of assets >$2M — after that settlement you're clear unless you continue to generate U.S. income.

That we welcome all immigrants…

Thread filled with (a) American losers who haven’t done much of their own volition to change their shitty lot in life and (b) foreigners (likely Brits and Euro trash) who are bitter they can’t live here. 🙄

America is far from perfect, but is certainly better than most.

“The notion that the U.S. is any less corrupt than Russia or India or any other “turd world” country.”

R21, I’m going to safely assume you are some white American Bernie bro who probably hasn’t traveled much outside the USA, or are just incredibly delusional and/or being intellectually dishonest. This is objectively false on many levels.

If I had the money and could speak other languages, I’d be happy for a one way ticket to France or Germany

[Quote] America is far from perfect, but is certainly better than most.

Among the western democracies, it is among the worst. It’s better than developing countries.

We, however, do a great PR jobs about how great we apparently are

The lie that there are nations with better looking people. We have the largest concentration of hottie son Earth thanks to the diversity every flavor of hottie can be found in America. But we lie to ourselves and pretend some European or south east asian countries have a monopoly on hotness.

R148, do the words “Citizens United” mean anything to you? What about “dark money”?

Thought not.

Unlimited campaign finance = unlimited corruption.

[quote]America is far from perfect, but is certainly better than most.

Americans have had that flag pole stuck up their collective ass for a half century or more, and they shove it harder and deeper the more that dream fades.

Every fucking thing is a competition to Americans, a competition that they must win. Yet look at U.S. standings in the world and you see they are not Number 1! in any good measure of well-being -- and I include GDP and GDP per Capita, for all the good that does Americans except more Dollar Stores and more Bed, Bath, and Beyond strip malls. Look how far down on the list you have to venture to better a decent country in a measure of the quality of people's lives.

So true, r153. By just about any metric - infant mortality, life expectancy, crime, educational achievement, even social mobility - the U.S. scores abysmally compared to most other “First World” nations.

That black college applicants don't get preferred treatment.

Bitter white loser alert @r155

That Black people are at the root of all the problems that effect white people and society.

The superiority complex many Europeans have online towards the USA tells me a lot about what life would be like for me in Europe. As an American. Thanks, I'll stick to our flawed but still beautiful country.

R158 = Trump voter.

[quote]Among the western democracies, it is among the worst. It’s better than developing countries.

Truth!

[quote]Americans have had that flag pole stuck up their collective ass for a half century or more, and they shove it harder and deeper the more that dream fades.

This is the most damaging lie they tell themselves, because it prevents them from actually improving the country for themselves. It's like they're on a sinking ship that could easily be salvaged, but are too arrogant to do so: "This ship is perfect! All the other people are jealous their ships aren't as good as ours. Ok, maybe our ship is a little flawed but it's still the best! Our ship... glub, glub, glub, glub..."

Frequently on lists of what countries provide, the US doesn't even crack the top 20.

[quote]Europeans find it odd that they never know the final price of anything in the U.S. until they are in the process of paying for it.

So do we Australians. Here you take something to the cash register, you know exactly what you are paying for it. Travelling in the US, you just end up with a whole heap of coins on you that you can't get rid of: "Oh it costs $1.87, I have that in coins, oh now the person at the counter is telling me it's $2.17. There's a line behind me of impatient people oh here's just $5 so I don't hold people up and yet again I'll take a whole heap of coinage away with me." It's so weird.

Exactly R160. Americans like R159 see anyone from Europe or anywhere else as a threat, so jealous of the U.S. that they wish ill upon it and want them to fail.

No. It's Americans who want to fail by insisting everything is just great, no problems at all. Contrary to delusion, Europeans are not dedicated to seeing or enjoying the TV program in which a country fails at its own undoing. They would rather blame foreign-trained doctors or research scientists, or Mexicans, or Reagan's legacy of the Black welfare mother. Americans believe the jealousy myth not because there is any truth to it, but because it suits their narrative. I know no Europeans who wish ill upon the U.S.; it wouldn't benefit them, it wouldn't delight them. They are more puzzled than gleeful about the state of things in the U.S., even those who have a fairly deep institutional/governmental skepticism from which their hone countries are the least immune.

But no, Americans delight in feeling bullied "for their freedoms" or whatever the fuck. The lie makes them feel better about themselves.

[quote] I know no Europeans who wish ill upon the U.S.; it wouldn't benefit them, it wouldn't delight them. They are more puzzled than gleeful about the state of things in the U.S., even those who have a fairly deep institutional/governmental skepticism from which their hone countries are the least immune. But no, Americans delight in feeling bullied "for their freedoms" or whatever the fuck. The lie makes them feel better about themselves.

Very well put!

Individual Europeans and European countries make no claim to exceptionalism, because apart from the UK, they are bordered by other countries with impressive accomplishments. But being so large, bordered only with sparcely populated Canada and third World Latin America, and with such a large population, the deusion of exceptionalism has taken hold in the US. There are some things where America leads the pack, certainly, but others where they are way behind, as noted above. The US needs to lose this hubris, acquire some humility and work on fixing its deficiencies.

r1 no lie though it is the best healthcare if your upper middle class or military.

What a depressing thread. America is the greatest country in the World.

R166, if that were true, THAT would be the most depressing thing about the world.

[quote] What a depressing thread. America is the greatest country in the World.

Bet r166 doesn’t even have a valid passport.

None of us chose to be born where we were born. I’ve always found it ridiculous that I’m expected to pledge undying allegiance to a country I just happened to be born in. The US is fine and there are many nice things about living here. If it were a viable option, I would expatriate in a heartbeat, though. Unless you’re inherently wealthy or have recent roots in a different country, it’s nearly impossible to do so Legally. I’ve checked…and I’m saving up.

R169 It depends. Very different rules in different European countries. A few easy, some impossible, others in the middle. Biggest issue is getting the complete set of legal documents showing lineage, with name and spelling variations often an issue.

R159, I wouldn't vote for Trump at gunpoint.

Good luck with your smear. Massive fail.

[r170] Right. Like I said, unless you have recent roots or are inherently wealthy, it’s next to impossible. My 4xG-Grandparents are my most recent European ancestors and I have birth and other records to corroborate; but they’re too far back, so that route won’t work…for Germany, at least.

WW2.

Grandma used to talk about having no nylon stockings to wear during the war, so the girls would stain their legs with tea and draw a line on the back of their legs.

[quote] I’ve always found it ridiculous that I’m expected to pledge undying allegiance to a country I just happened to be born in.

So true.

That said, despite years of saying the Pledge of Allegiance, I can even remember the whole thing now.

'all' was never intended to apply to females or defeated enemies or exslaves. It applied to English god fearing men.

So many bitter Europeans on this thread. Sorry you secretly envy us Americans so much.

"We're the source of all the world's misery."

Oh wait, that just Far Left Loons who say that

R176 Deluded deplorable fatass , call yourself United Statian, in your case United Shitstain. America is two continents and 34 other countries.

My Government/Senator/Congressman really cares about me. My vote counts!

Universal health care will be the BEST!

R180, yeah, it really sucks when everyone can get healthcare….

That cannabis is a schedule 1 drug like heroin, but alcohol is legal and perfectly fine.

Don't worry fascist cunt at R180: your scheduled frontal lobotomy will go on as planned. Humanity demands it.

R181, think about it. Or talk to anyone with a chronic condition in Canada or the UK. Because everyone has "health care", the wait times are sometimes 3 - 6 months and longer. And you don't have a say in that decision, no matter how urgent the need is.

^You have zero idea how it actually works.

R185, I know a half dozen with severe chronic conditions who struggle against all the red tape to get the care they need. And one who might die because of it.

"Other places are better."

R185, Using your warped logic, first-rate, real-time health care is deserving of the few who can afford it, and the have-nots can go fuck themselves.

What makes the “ half dozen with severe chronic conditions” (people?), who, I assume, can afford private insurance more worthy than the people who can’t? In a universal healthcare system, the affluent and the wealthy don’t always get first and best dibs. Oh, the horror. Being poor is not a crime, nor is it a class of inferior humans.

America is such a shit hole that half the planet wants to live here.

R189, LOL, ikr. The far lefties are crazy.

[Quote] think about it. Or talk to anyone with a chronic condition in Canada or the UK. Because everyone has "health care", the wait times are sometimes 3 - 6 months and longer. And you don't have a say in that decision, no matter how urgent the need is.

Actually, people in Canada and the UK have far better health outcomes than Americans. They realize that having a shorter wait time to see a doc doesn’t really mean much health wise. Emergencies are handled the same everywhere .

And American wait times were getting longer and longer, even before we moved to universal healthcare. Apparently some dermatologists in major cities have 1 year long wait times.

[Quote] America is such a shit hole that half the planet wants to live here.

The poor people from around the world, actually. Europeans and rich people from developing countries don’t settle in the US at significant rates.

Just because a doctor see you tomorrow and schedules a whole bunch of tests doesn’t mean you’re getting more amazing healthcare. In fact, the extra tests often find things that wouldn’t need to be treated but, once something is found, it’s automatically treated. Every treatment has side effects, etc.

In fact, the current recommendation has changed for most women to get mammograms every two years starting at age 50. Before it was annually starting at 40. The change was made because there were too many false positives. Women without real cancer were getting complete mastectomies.

America’s healthcare system is based on testing like crazy and treating everything, even when a person is old and about to die.

R193, I don't care what you say. I would rather have the option to be seen swiftly and be tested like crazy. You give some one off example of why our Healthcare isn't the best. Upper middle class people from Canada envy our health care because they know it's the best.

[Quote] I would rather have the option to be seen swiftly and be tested like crazy. You give some one off example of why our Healthcare isn't the best. Upper middle class people from Canada envy our health care because they know it's the best.

There’s example after example of how we overtest, leading to our system costing twice as much as the average for western countries but having among the worst outcomes.

No one in the western world envies our system because everyone knows it costs too much, many people can’t get afford it, and people aren’t any healthier in the end.

Canadians and Europeans are constantly scratching their heads wondering why healthcare isn’t guaranteed to everyone in the US.

If you a can’t pay for it, you don’t get it. Insurance is most commonly tied to employment (through a quirk of history) and we have to pay premiums, deductibles, copays, coinsurance before we can access it.

We ALL know that’s a fucked system—the worst in the developed world by all measures: Most expensive, least effective, least comprehensive, least accessible. But companies are making huge profits off of us.

[Quote] I don't care what you say. I would rather have the option to be seen swiftly and be tested like crazy.

You had that option when 15-20% of Americans were priced out of insurance and could see a doctor at all. You would rather you get access so others can’t?

Getting more tests doesn’t equate to better healthcare. Testing needs to be smarter.

Instead American doctors learn that the answer to everything is to test. Physical exam skills have dwindled because an MRI works better at finding a problem than a physical exam does.

Doctors also prescribe for everything because they know that patients expect it and will think better of the doctor if they get a prescription.

Can’t sleep? Here’s a pill. Feeling anxious? Here’s a pill? Having sexual problems? Here’s a pill

Complaints of a headache will get an automatic CT scan. It’s fast and easy but drives up healthcare costs.

Plus the doctor doesn’t have to take time to listen to your problems.

R194 how about this?

R165 my military friends have plenty of complaints about the VA. And you shouldn't have to sign up to maybe get blown up to see a decent doctor

Among 11 developed countries, the United States has the highest maternal mortality rate, a relative undersupply of maternity care providers, and is the only country not to guarantee access to provider home visits or paid parental leave in the postpartum period, a recent report from The Commonwealth Fund concluded. Compared with any other wealthy nation, the United States also spends the highest percentage of its gross domestic product on health care.

Maternal deaths have been increasing in the United States since 2000, and although 700 pregnancy-related deaths occur each year, two-thirds of these deaths are considered to be preventable.

In condition after condition from Diabetes to High blood pressure, the US ranks right down there with Eastern European countries.

The American healthcare system sucks a lot of money out of us and, like everything else in the US, the rich get to keep most of it.

[Quote]no lie though it is the best healthcare if your upper middle class or military.

Based on what parameters? Just because people making huge profits keep parroting “this is the best healthcare system” doesn’t make it so. Healthcare has far better outcomes for far less money in the rest of the developed world

We won our independence all on our own

R178 beautiful but which of those countries has America in their name?

When you travel abroad everyone understands an Americano is from the US.

Could you say "soy estados unidos?" Mexico is officially Estados Unidos Mexicanos but no one calls them United States. It is what is. Get over it.

R196, yes. It's a dog eat world. Better get some learning or better yet don't procreate unless you make close to 200K.

"by the people, for the people..." 1863

R205 If you're respectful of Mexican feelings you use "norteamericano."

American exceptionalism is the biggest crock of nonsense.

Just because we are at the height of empire (and decaying), we think we're something extra special.

Look at history. The average empire lasts 150 years. We're past our expiration date.

[quote] Look at history. The average empire lasts 150 years. We're past our expiration date.

Hmmm. And you sound like someone who's delighted by that prospect... Enjoy the Age of China.

This is such a troll thread. There's a lot of social media dedicated to making the USA sound like hell on earth. It's not. Does it have serious issues? Yes, of course. SO DO OTHER COUNTRIES. EVERY GOD DAMN ONE OF THEM.

We don't, in fact, lie to ourselves. Every one of those "lies" are things that are debated and disagreed about. Americans bitch constantly about health coverage, equal rights, social inequality, etc.

What I find interesting about us is that, given our incredible military and economic might, is that we haven't abused our power more. Probably because of our natural resources and only have two neighbors, neither of whom is a threat to us. We had some disputes with the British Empire/Canada, but at this point, we basically had the sense to intertwine the economies of Canada and the U.S. in such a way that we both benefit from getting along--this is something we're busily doing with Mexico as well. If Russia wasn't so fucking paranoid and corrupt, they could have done this with Ukraine and everyone would be a lot more secure.

Oh, and by the way, as for being called "Americans"--we're called that because A)The name is in the name of our country B)We did it first--we were the first independent nation in the Americas and C) it's actually how everybody else began referring to us. Looking for some way in which to be offended by this is SJW pettiness at its finest and most ridiculous, particularly as there's no real alternative.

So, among the lies America tells itself is that we're just as bad as countries that are truly abusive and authoritarian. Americans tend to not know a ton of history or about other places, so there's an idealism and naivete about this. We're just a bunch of perpetual adolescents in that way. Large adolescents.

[quote]So, among the lies America tells itself is that we're just as bad as countries that are truly abusive and authoritarian.

That's ridiculous. When was the last time you heard a group of Americans comparing themselves unflatteringly to North Korea, Turkmenistan, Eritrea, Afghanistan, or China? (Those are the current totalitarian governments by various definitions.) Americans are more likely to compare themselves to more developed and prosperous "first world" nations, and from there we disagree: you seem to argue that Americans undervalue their country and my experience is that when Americans do think about these things they overplay their hand with hollow boosterism, dick measuring contests where the American holds the tape measure, and falling back on "We're Number 1!" arguments for which no facts but "because we are, goddamnit!"

Americans compare themselves to France or the UK, Canada, New Zealand and Australia, Germany, and they have to paint themselves as winners every single time, by whatever stretch of argument or forsaken logic. If they compare themselves to North Korea it's to say "see, this is what we are not" and rightly so, for now.

R188, if they could afford private health care, i.e., if they had other options, they WOULDN'T BE WAITING six months to a year or more. Jeez.

R212, I've heard plenty of negative comparisons of the US to China--take a look at Quora sometime. Americans don't think any one thing--I see way more dragging down the U.S. than boosterism on Reddit. This is a country that argues and argues openly. When was the last time Noam Chomsky compared the United States favorably to any other country? But he is an American and part of the American discourse.

I've seen plenty of Americans compare our health care negatively to Canada's. In fact, it's been years since I've heard anyone say anything that was favorable about the U.S. system compared to Canada's--and that guy worked for the insurance industry. New Zealand is seen as being way more enlightened and civil about the handling of the pandemic.

If anything, there is a segment of Americans who are so certain that their country is deficient that they have little perception of the issues in other admired countries, such as the ones you listed.

The US does have the best medical schools in the world but Rethugs keep their healthcare from being the best in the world as well.

R215 speaks from experience after decades of receiving mental healthcare.

[quote] Hmmm. And you sound like someone who's delighted by that prospect... Enjoy the Age of China.

It doesn't matter if someone "delights" in it or not, the fall of the US is real. When Oligarchs grab all the money, the rest decays,

By the way, upcoming is the second Age of China. except for the last 500 years of European dominance, China led the world.

R208 no mexicano que conozco se preocupa por distinciones tan insignificantes. y hay muchos en mi familia.

Male infants should be strapped spread eagle to a board and then have parts of their genitals hacked away in the first days of their lives, so that doctors/hospitals can bill insurance companies more money. Nice little racket 'innit.

[quote] By the way, upcoming is the second Age of China. except for the last 500 years of European dominance, China led the world.

Whaaa? China was THE supreme world power from the beginning of time until 1521? Honey, take a break from the opium den.

It's worse than Europe.

[quote] Whaaa? China was THE supreme world power from the beginning of time until 1521?

Yup, that's about right.

Europeans were barbarians in comparison

slavery ended after the civil war. . . .

R223. Not in the US. Perhaps you are thinking about the West Indes or Central America.

Apparently americans invented freedom of speech as well as a few other freedoms that have been practiced in countries centuries before America became a thing. The whole "This is america, I have a right to say what I want" really chafs my asshole.

I love americans and everything but the way they go of sometimes about how they are some sort of moral beacon of the world and the greatest and best run country in existence?

No. That would probably be the nordic countries, where they have all those freedoms and actually take care of their people.