Julia on HBO Max

Th Variety review goes into Wokeism. Nothing can be produced today without this kind of criticism:

[quote]Like “Maisel” before it, “Julia” does a remarkable job recreating a specific slice of upper middle class life as anchored by a white woman whose outsized personality comes with similarly notable talent

[quote]More confusing is the show’s characterization of Alice, which is not a knock on Bradford. Far from it, her performance is one of the most nuanced “Julia” has to offer. Unlike every other character, though, Alice is a fabrication; Ruth Lockwood, Child’s Smith College roommate, was the “French Chef” producer who shepherded the show from beginning to end. By making her a Black woman, “Julia” tries to be more inclusive than the reality without fully reckoning with what it would mean for a Black woman to be producing a show made by and catering to well-off white women who might fancy themselves more progressive than they truly are. Putting Alice at the center of this story is a fascinating choice, but one that requires more consideration and depth than “Julia” quite allows.

So they fictionalized Ruth Lockwood as a black woman to give this series the African-American experience? Or something? Also to make it seem like it was a black woman who was responsible for Julia Child's success? Reminds me of the wokesters giving full credit to trans POC for Stonewall to give it some diversity because it was mainly a cis gay white men event.

The actress playing Alice is good but it’s really quite a deceitful trick to play on the audience making them think that a Black woman actually produced a show at WGBH Boston in the early 1960s. Even in Boston that would have been next to impossible.

I know r3 but welcome to the modern entertainment business!

Sarah Lancashire is amazing in anything she's in. I will be watching.

Does anyone know where you can watch this in the U.K.? I'm dying to see what Sarah Lancashire does with the part - she's usually outstanding.

^^Piratebay, bro

R6 If it’s an HBO show it’s likely SkyAtlantic will get the screening rights.

That said Sarah Lancashire is so loved here I wouldn’t be surprised if the BBC got the rights for it.

This show is an absolutely fucking delight. It has the whimsy of 'Maisel' but due to the strength of the scripts and its leads (Lancashire is a marvel in the part) it's not remotely as cloying.

It was a bit disappointing to see them craft an anachronistic character like Alice and then not properly deal with the ramifications of being a young, black woman at a male dominated television station. But the show is so damn great you can pretty much overlook it and take it all at face value.

Wonderful to see David Hyde Pierce, Bebe Neuwirth and James Cromwell in supporting roles.

Comments like r1 is why it's hard to take seriously anyone who throws around terms like "wokeism," because such people don't really know what they mean or what they're criticizing.

It sounds like the show shoehorned a Black character into it without remotely dealing with how realistic that would be... That's a perfectly valid criticism that has nothing to do with being "woke." If anything, introducing the Black character is the show's attempt to be "woke," and you'd like a "wokeness" hater would enjoy a review calling them out for trying and failing. But again, people throwing around the term as a criticism seldom know what they're actually saying.

r10 you might want to change your tampon.

The trouble with putting a fictional character in a major role is that it makes the audience query the veracity of everything else. That’s a distraction.

I love it so far. Sarah Lancashire is amazing, and she and Hyde Pierce are note perfect. I wasn't super familiar with Child's show or the people around her, maybe not knowing all that has increased my joy in watching as I'm not viewing through that eye of comparison.

He seems too slight to be Paul Child.

I was not expecting to like this show so much. It's so charming.

I don't really care about the revisionist history. I get why they did it, even if it's still annoying. I probably should have a bigger issue with it than I do. I just don't. Might help that the actress is so damn good...

There's an excellent documentary, also called "Julia," that came out last year. It's on Amazon and Youtube.

The guy playing her manager at the station, Fran Kranz, is fucking HOT. Hot on the show in Mad Men drag, hot in real life.

I spied Judith Light as Blanche Knopf- fabulous.

For a second I wasn't sure if it was Judith or Holland Taylor! LOL

We melded, R19.

It happens to all characters actors of a certain age.

So Julia dabbled in the lez lez? Bebe is aging into a fine character actress. There’s even a bit of warmth in her performance.

I am really loving this show. Sarah is perfect as Julia.

The one who I'm really gaga for is Bebe Neuwirth's Avis DeVoto. Avis' family published a book of her correspondence with Julia over the years, and it seems quite in line with that.

Was cock on van really that popular?

How do you all feel about Sarah’s interpretation of the Julia “voice”?

This thread is torture. I don't have a VPN and cannot find this airing anywhere in the U.K.

You'd think the BBC or ITV would pick it up, bearing in mind Sarah Lancashire is a national treasure!

[quote]How do you all feel about Sarah’s interpretation of the Julia “voice”?

I'm going to be contrary. She's completely fine, but I don't look at her and see/hear Julia. I see a good performance, but it's not all the way there.

R12, there are so many clearly fictional contrivances, but that is the one that makes you question the show's varsity?

I love the show, but it clearly is as much a fantasy as Mrs. Maisel. It is just a better one.

Sarah shines in this role.

I'm kinda bored and only on episode 2. Does it get better?

It does get better. I hated the first episode but I stuck with it and I’m glad I did. Sarah is growing on me but it took a while. She’s not doing an impersonation of Julia but she really captures her humor and her character.

[quote] She’s not doing an impersonation of Julia but she really captures her humor and her character.

This is what I really love about it.

[quote] How do you all feel about Sarah’s interpretation of the Julia “voice”?

I think it's great. I would find a more spot on imitation distracting.

Melanie Mayron is the director. I used to love her in “30 Something.”

She was the director of episode 3.

She may be the director of other eps, TBA....so far only #3

Melanie Mayron is a big lez. It shows in her directing.

....

Well, I absolutely LOVED the first 2 episodes. What a pleasure to watch a TV series for adults.

But I found with episode 3 a sad lack of focus and an unnecessary need to make buffoons out of some of the characters, e.g. the men at WBGH. And why does Judith Light push so hard and make every character she plays now into some awful cliche?

That said, I'm still watching and episode 4 was an improvement over episode 3,,,,except what was up with those 2 incredibly stupid scenes with the station president played by Robert Joy, who tried to blame and shame Julia for the Boston Globe article about the success of her show and then yelled at Alice for successfully selling the show to the station in San Francisco....it made no sense! Poor actor - I can imagine his questions on set asking the writers for his motivations there.

I continue to love Sarah, Bebe and DHP though and hope the show stays on track.

Was Updike that adorkable when he was young?

Sarah Lancashire is always so good, i'm thrilled for her to get such a big international HBO project and she's nailing it. But I LOVE Bebe's presence in this. She is so charming in an old-school kind of way, a very watchable actress.

The first episode is on their official Youtube if anyone wants to check it out.

Sarah Lancashire is amazing. Check out Happy Valley if you haven't seen it. I was riveted.

R41 and Last Tango in Halifax. She's brilliant.

R15 absolutely. The actress who plays Alice is fantastic. I reconcile the "wokeism" thinking, had they not cast this brilliant actress, we wouldn't have been exposed to her brilliance.

I wish Happy Valley was still on Netflix.

I don’t watch much TV. The last thing I saw Sarah Lancashire in was Coronation Street as the barmaid Raquel. She was brilliant. It was a tragicomic masterclass.

I agree about Bebe and what's really remarkable is she's created a deeply felt character with very little help from the writers. I mean, what do we really know about Ava, other than she's a widow?

[quote] The actress playing Alice is good

Got a fresh freckled face for the nayyyy-bor-hood!

Bebe has fabulous chemistry with everyone.

Thanks for suggesting this OP. I'm sitting here watching episode three and I'm about halfway through an excellent bottle of chardonnay. The two make for a most excellent evening, especially since one of my most memorable patients died this morning. I'm an oncologist and what was easier in my thirties has become harder in my forties. Our lives are all so short, and even in the best of scenarios, we are all but a microdroplet in the ocean of time.

Thank you!

Chardonnay is wonderful.

R8, Hacks is on HBO Max here in the US but on Amazon Prime in the UK. I think that’s where Julia might end up over there once the episodes have all been dropped on HBO Max.

The host of the What I’m Reading show is annoying and unnecessary.

Agreed about Jefferson Mays as Duhamel. He's pushing too hard for the comedy. What seemed like a charming buffoon in E1 has morphed into some kind of inhuman creature by E4.

I’ve been a David Hyde Pierce fan since I saw him on broadway in The Heidi Chronicles way back when and he just never disappoints. So much fun seeing him and Bebe together again.

I saw him on Broadway in La Bete with Joanna Lumley. He was terrific, and it's so cute seeing him and Bebe promoting the show together.

Isn't Jefferson Mays a drag queen?

Never mind, I was confusing a play he appeared in with him personally.

I thought it was an interesting choice in the first episode to have both Paul and Julia smoking cigarettes as they finished their meals (well, actually, I think Julia placed one between her lips but then had a brainstorm and ran to her typewriter) but the habit has been kicked, I see.

Julia smoked like a chimney until the late 60s.

she is dead, r57.

Considering the quantities of cigarettes and butter, Julia lived a very long life. Perhaps it was all that Pinot Noir.

Rave from the Guardian in the UK-it will air over there on Sky Atlantic, after all.

New episode available today with the introduction of James Beard! Will he be a good witch or a bad witch?

Is she better than M?

According to Julia's Wikipedia, she spent the War Years working on shark repellents for the OSS, so that Allied soldiers who ended up in the Pacific Ocean might have a chance not to be bitten by a shark. I love that so much.

Julia goes to a gay bar and meets a Julia drag queen!

Either James Beard had shit for taste or those “delicious” waiters he mentioned to Julia were off that night at that restaurant. Or background casting didn’t read the script.

OK, in this episode the extreme faux pas of having a young black woman as an associate producer at a local television station in 1962 really started to become all too apparent. Alice has started pulling the blame game and it was very awkwardly veering into victimhood via race.

Yes r66 Alice takes me right out of the show. Can nobody just tell a story as it actually happened anymore? The Alice character is so anachronistic and then the scenes with her mother, ugh. We're watching the damn show for Julia Child!

Well, I for one, enjoyed the latest episode. The fact that Alice is portrayed by a talented black actress doesn't bother me at all and I'm sorry for those here who can't get over it. And other than the color of her skin, there's nothing particularly "black" about the characterization - so why not?

Because it's historically inaccurate and Alice never existed IRL.

r69, if you think this is the true story of Julia Child and her life and career, I've got news for you. This series does not pretend to be "history" on any level.

But the Alice character is egregiously anachronistic. Otherwise the story is pretty accurate.

What does it matter, r71? How does it harm the legacy of Julia Child? How does it harm viewers watching the series?

Can you simply not find it refreshing that in this highly theatricalized version of Julia Child's life, there's a smart, educated and ambitious young black woman succeeding as her producer?

R72, you just don’t get it. And I pity you for that.

I detest revising history to fit a narrative that's currently fashionable. Just tell the damn story as it happened.

I tried to log on and the line was busy, is viewership limited? The episode was just released today, so maybe I'll try after midnight or later tomorrow.

[quote] Just tell the damn story as it happened.

That's called a documentary. Perhaps you can seek the Julia doc out and watch it. I understand it was made quite recently.

r76 shoehorning in anachronous characters is a cheat to the project and the audience. It really stands out and takes you right out of the story. I'm sure if Alice were a white woman you would not be so defensive.

I hope Sarah wins an Emmy for this. Should be in the bag if Nicole isn't playing a young mother, or Kate white trash.

[quote]This thread is torture. I don't have a VPN and cannot find this airing anywhere in the U.K. You'd think the BBC or ITV would pick it up, bearing in mind Sarah Lancashire is a national treasure!

You didn't look very hard did you babe? Julia started on Sky Atlantic at the start of the week. Sky Atlantic have a deal with HBO that gives them first refusal on any content.

If you don't want or can't have Sky Atlantic then you can stream it via NOW TV. You 7 days free.

I don't think Sky Atlantic had said it was getting Julia a week ago, R79. Now TV is a good idea, though.

I thought Christian Clemenson was fantastic as James Beard. So much poignancy behind the bon vivant's eyes.

R72, you don't find it odd that a black female in 1962 is an associate producer of a television series? If it was HARPO Productions maybe, otherwise, seems like a woke stretch to me.

[quote]From 1963 to 1968, Anderson worked for NET (National Education Television) in New York as an associate producer, writer and editor before the station became WNET. In 1965, she became a film editor, writer and a producer-director for the Black Journal series, which discussed the racial issues and debates occurring in America at that time. For the first year of the series, Anderson was the only black woman on staff.

HBO put the first hour up on youtube. I watched it the other night. It's ok. It's not great but I sort of enjoyed it. I do love Sarah Lancashire but I'm not getting the raves. Maybe because the real Julia was such a caricature in RL that it just seems a parody. Niles grew on me as the hour progressed.

OK, here’s the thing-in their well intentioned effort to be inclusive this show is telling its audience that the world in 1962 (and Boston in particular) was much further along than it was regarding opportunities for young black women behind the scenes in the entertainment industry. And that’s a lie because it most certainly wasn’t.

Can't stand it when contemporary politics are shoehorned into period pieces.

Sure it's anachronistic. But I'm not focusing on the fact that she's black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black < which seems to be all the further some viewers can see.

I'm seeing a performance I'm enjoying. I've been on the end of something similar to the scene between Avis and Alice where people make assumptions.

I think we clearly understand that this creative choice has diminished your enjoyment of this, but by all means, please make 398,789,467,209 more posts about how it grievously offends your very soul.

Wow, R87. Just…uhhh…wow.

I still want a white Effie in Dreamgirls

And a white family in Raisin in the Sun.

This week's episode was fun....yet sad

Did I miss something? Did they ever explain how Julia knew James Beard?

Also, the woman that Paul was walking with on the SF pier....was that his sister?

1962 was around when African-Americans began to get responsible positions in white organizations. Public TV probably was a more likely employer than a commercial station. Like a lot of outsiders they started at the bottom and stayed there because they weren't "wired", even if they went to Oberlin (desegregated in the 19th century). Right wing trolls with no historical perspective aside there is nothing anachronistic about her or the way she's played. You would need to be able to fit into a white environment to do all that.

Thank you, r93, for some much needed historical reference.

But, nevertheless, I couldn't care less what color Alice is in the series, The actress is totally engaging and I'm eager to see how the character develops throughout the series.

r93 it's not historically accurate. Sorry.

I wondered how she knew Beard, too, R92.

R96: here's a new invention called "Google" you might try it.

Lancashire captures Julia's size, but lacks le Streep's flair for accents. Actually, even Dan Ackroyd conjures up that voice better.

r96, thanks for the link but my point was in asking if the episode explained the past relationship of Child and Beard.

nonsensical. you saw it yourself.

DEAR FAT FUCKING WHORES THAT NEED EVERY SECOND OF EVERY MINUTE OF EVERY HOUR OF ANY SHOW TO BE ABSOLUTE HISTORY AS IT HAPPENED.....

WATCH

THE

FUCKING

DOCUMENTARY

Sorry r101 it's shit storytelling to shoehorn in currently fashionable narratives in an historical piece. Most intelligent, educated people feel this way instead of the woke mob who can't bear to see history as it actually happened because Diversity and Inclusion! It's quite tedious.

Then stop watching you melanin challenged old sea cow.

Judith Light overacts. She always has.

OMFG this has nothing to do with wokeness. you are the DUMBEST FUCKING PERSON WHO EVER LIVED.

It has everything to do with wokeness. "Let's shoehorn some diversity in, no matter how nonsensical it is, because everything has to be diverse!"

done with this thread, and all the fucking racist queens on it.

The willful ignorance that some posters here are displaying regarding the Alice character is amusing if not somewhat alarming. “I don’t care if she’s Black and it’s not technically accurate in a historical sense I’ll just continue enjoying this delightful series, blah blah blah…” Jesus. So I guess you’d be OK with Paul Child’s former OSS boss popping up played by BD Wong?

Bye r107! It's not "racist" to point out historical inaccuracies and putting contemporary attitudes in historical projects.

r107, they ruin everything.

I love that Julia's Secrets to a Happy Marriage were the 3 F's

Feed your man

Flatter your man

Fuck your man

It has some flaws, but I'm enjoying it.

It's a treat to watch a series that is so upbeat and delightful.

I didn't really like the stereotypical portrayal of James Beard as a lonely, old, alcoholic queen, but I only know him from some old cookbooks that I have, so maybe that was accurate? I don't think James Beard would have liked that version of him.

Other than that, Sarah Lancashire is wonderful. Her performance is so affectionate. And I'm loving David Hyde Pierce.

Quit trying to change the minds of strangers in a dialogue they have not invited. It seldom, likely never, works. In either direction.

is is some troll winding you up and succeeding.

I love it! I read nothing about it before I began to watch. I was so shocked to see "Niles & Lilith" and frankly surprised by how much they aged but who hasn't? They are both wonderful in this. This is a perfect portrayal of Julia. Streep over did it and was verging into a SNL skit at times.

What I hope is addressed is if Julia wanted kids and couldn't have them or didn't want any. Streep's Julia would weep every time she saw a kid or when she found out her sister was pregnant. Somehow I don't think Julia really cared that much.

I'm loving this and I'm sad that it's not something that can go on for years, but really how?

R115, it was sort of addressed with that young woman with the baby in the first and second episodes but she seems to have disappeared.

I watched the first episode on Youtube, and really enjoyed it. The cast is terrific, and Sarah Lancashire is a brilliant discovery (for me). Regarding the discussion about creating an African-American character as a TV producer, I have mixed feelings, since Brittany Bradford is excellent, but I also agree that it's an anachronism. Remember, here on DL, some of us lived through that period of history.

One of the things this show purports to be about is women’s roles in 1962. The Alice character is a fundamentally dishonest one because she simply wouldn’t hold any sort of responsibility in a TV station in Boston, be it a public station or otherwise. Daniel Goldfarb, the show’s creator/headwriter, comes from The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel which has been guilty of several anachronisms over its four seasons so far but nothing approaching the whopper that is Alice Naman.

R118: we heard you the first time, you racist troll.

Maisal created a phony image of Lenny Bruce as a suave male model. Julia, which has the same writer who is also the show runner, contains so much fiction I don't know they bothered. Alice didn't have a falling out with her mother because she didn't exist. Julia going to a drag club and meeting a female impersonator of her never happened; if it had. it's doubtful she would have been delighted. given how self conscious she was about her height and appearance. Was her husband left to cool his heels on her trip to San Francisco? Who knows?

The writer, who is show runner for Julia, needs to be called on this bullshit. When whole episodes are fictional, that's a bit much/

R44 I love Sarah Lancashire and she’s great in this. I’m also thrilled she’ll be doing a final series of Happy Valley. For me her portrayal of Raquel in Coronation Street was one of the best mixtures of tragedy and comedy British soap produced!

r119 intelligent people who have a sense of history are accurate about this. Please STFU and let the grown ups talk.

The scene of Julia going to a drag club with James Beard and getting was ridiculous. I can't imagine that ever happening. And James Beard as a drunken old "fairy" was damaging to his reputation.

And they tried to make it seem as though Paul was going to see an old flame (Claire) while Julia was having dinner with James Beard. Turned out it was his sister he was going to see. I guess they needed to manufacture some drama.

Apart from that, I do like the series, but making up scenes like those, detracts from what could have been perfection. I suppose watching the making of an iconic cooking show wasn't enough to hold an audiences interest and some outrageous things had to made up out of nowhere to capture the spirit of that time period.

^^^ and getting drunk.....

I wonder if it really was so difficult to do the show at the beginning. I guess maybe yes, in those days.

I've never enjoyed Mrs. Maisel and, from the very first episode, found it all phony, cliched, predictable, unfunny and annoyingly anachronistic.

Yet I'm mostly charmed by Julia and love it's gentility and ease. I know that Goldfarb was a writer and show runner on Maisel but he's the creator, exec producer and head writer on Julia. I feel like he's making all the right adjustments on his new series.

Who was the original actress who was supposed to do this and then pulled out?

Margo Martindale maybe?

Joan Cusack.

Why did the original actress drop out?

Well, I much prefer Sarah Lancashire to anyone else.

It was supposed to be Joan Cusack as Julia and Tom Hollander as the husband.

well, she's hating it now!

Fuck off, R119.

Was The French Chef sold to TV stations in the South? If so this show would have to address the issue as to whether they would actually agree to take it if one of its producers was a Black woman.

Four words: Willing suspension of disbelief. If the historical (in)accuracies give you such heartburn, stop watching.

Willing suspension of disbelief is supposed to be reserved for firctional productions, not a biopic.

By now you must have realized that ANY biopic on TV is liberally sprinkled with fictional situations. For 100% historical accuracy, they invented documentaries. Take your pick.

The Southern stations would have cared about on camera talent. OTOH, by that time people like Dinah Shore had already brought black talent onto their shows on national network tv. It's funny how right wingers "cancel" easily documented history.

Why couldn’t this be a show about Julia Sugarbaker in the early days as an Interior Design student at SCAD during the start of the ‘60s being sassy and telling people off about their casual racism, sexism and homophobia?

I think it's the best performance of Julia Child I've ever seen! If TV performances could win Oscars, she'd be a shoe in!

R139. I was expecting a show called ‘Julia’ to be just that, a prequel to Designing Women. We could have seen Julia refusing to wear a girdle and her 10 year old sister Suzanne outing effeminate male classmates.

[quote]Julia going to a drag club and meeting a female impersonator of her never happened;

I did wonder how the drag queen knew the exact colors of the smock after seeing it on a B&W TV program.

R134. back in the early 60s they would not know the race of an associate producer. They would just assume she was white.

No one would be flying anywhere since this all could be handled by phone. There were no websites with staff photos or social media for them to know what anyone looked like.

Our annoying racist troll probably doesn't realize that "Julia" also was the name of Diahann Carroll's pioneering sitcom, which arrive just a few years later.

That has nothing to do with this topic r144. And nobody is racist on this thread, just annoyed that contemporary politics are being used in an historical project.

In Bill Maher's new HBO stand up special, he had a great rant about applying contemporary attitudes to historical figures. It was great.

plenty of straights went to SF drag bars in the 70s.

Do posters here really find it unbelievable that James Beard would have regularly attended a San Francisco gay bar in the early 1960s? Or even that he might have dragged his old buddy Julia Child there for a night of fun?

What her actual reaction might have been is perhaps debatable, but I'd like to think she got a little drunk and enjoyed herself, as depicted on the series.

It's the same with Alice Naman. It may be highly unlikely (but not impossible) that WGBH, a struggling local public television station, would have had a lowly associate producer position filled by a college educated and ambitious young Black woman in 1962, but I'd like to think they did. Is it really so outlandish? Where's the harm there? How is that obstructing history any more than a gay bar with Julia Child in attendance?

Or squeezing her ten year old sister Suzanne into a girdle.

French Chef was syndicated in 1964, not the 70s. "It could have happened" is a low bar. This is an episodic streamed series, not a movie and one fictitious episode is one too many. Julia Child was supposed to have been homophobic up until the AIDS crisis 20 years later. Rewriting her personal history in this respect is a serious distortion. You sand off the rough edges of a public figure when you're writing for children, not adults,

In this last episode Paul revealed a touch of the homophobe but wasn’t he a closet case?

[quote] Julia Child was supposed to have been homophobic up until the AIDS crisis 20 years later.

In an earlier episode, it is revealed that Julia has a touch of the lez-lez in her college days. And her reaction to being reminded of it showed that she was not comfortable with it.

I couldn't help but wonder if this would translate into unease at going to a gay bar, to distance herself from herself.

people, my totally rethug exec. cousin in law went to drag shows with his wife in the late 60s early 70s. it was a thing.

female impersonators made it sound better.

The touch of lez lez was made up too.

I forgot who but someone said Julia “killed it” on the San Francisco morning show. Was that expression used in 1962? I only started hearing it the past few years.

[quote]In an earlier episode, it is revealed that Julia has a touch of the lez-lez in her college days.

Julia didn't do the lez-lez, her dyke college roommate just said that she got turned on by Julia.

"Coco Vann" is a wonderful drag name.

But "Coco Vann" never existed. How the fuck did he know what was in color when The French Chef was in black and white?

Let's not even get started on the black lady.

I think this show is dull, and I think the Woman who plays Alison is good, but not very interesting either. I hate how they portrayed James Beard.

My problem isn't that they fictionalized it, it's that it doesn't seem believable a lot of the time. It gets a little too cutsie for me as well. (See Maisel, Mrs.) I always like Lancashire, though following Streep's brilliant performance doesn't do her any favors. She sounds far more like Angela Lansbury than Julia Child. Still, it's easy viewing, minus a few cringe moments.

Duhamel loved Julia and thought she was a great addition to the station. Back to fiction, I thought it was very clear that Julia had been intimate with her Smith friend—we saw how uncomfortable she was when the friend showed up at the reunion.

I for one, didn't need to know how much sex Julia and Paul were having. And I'm not sure how anyone even knew that. There are other ways to show how much they adored one another without grossing everyone out.

Next thing you know, Julia is going to be parading around nude wearing just an apron, stockings and a garter belt.

I’d have totally eaten out Julia’s snatch!

[quote]I for one, didn't need to know how much sex Julia and Paul were having. And I'm not sure how anyone even knew that.

Julia was pretty open about that stuff, at least with her friends.

She even made a comment in My Life in France that when Paul was called back to Washington during the Lavender Scare, she'd have let him demonstrate that he wasn't gay.

She was a bit more gentile than that.

Smith was/is an all women's school and although Smithies were known for being "faster" than their Mt Holyoke sisters ("Smith to bed, Holyoke to wed"), I'm sure there was all kinds of often awkward, misunderstood stuff going on as well as full-on affairs. The plotline does not suggest that Julia did anything more than create the impression of romantic interest and that alone would have been pretty embarrassing then (or now). Julia seems to have had a pretty cloistered upbringing and went there pre-WWII, so I would wonder what was going on with some of her classmates.

[quote]Julia didn't do the lez-lez, her dyke college roommate just said that she got turned on by Julia.

The college friend (I don't think she was a roommate, as Julia didn't even remember her) said they spend the night together under a blanket after skinny dipping.

[quote]"Coco Vann" is a wonderful drag name.

A real drag queen would have made use of the word "Cock"

[quote]I for one, didn't need to know how much sex Julia and Paul were having. And I'm not sure how anyone even knew that.

Julia was known to tell people that the secret to a good marriage was "The Three F's: Flatter him, feed him, and fuck him!"

Jesus Fucking Christ on a crutch! You'd criticize a sunset.

The sunset streaming into my kitchen tonight is a very tacky shade of orange.

What? Does the sky think this is still the '70s and I have avocado appliances?

The lez lez friend is an invention, like the drag queen, the night at the club, the Black producer, Russ Morash not wanting to do the show and DuHamel being jealous of Julia. The showrunner feels constrained by facts. It is true Julia had a cooking show, a husband named Paul, a friend named Avis Devoto, a producer named Russ and an agent at Knopf. Enjoy it but don't confuse it with reality.

It apparently gets darker as the season goes on, Paul introduces an old pal to the equation...Sy Philis, straight from the brothels of Pigalle.

Fictionalizing the facts bothered me at first but the show has become so engaging with wonderful performances from everyone that I no longer give a fuck. I look at it as pure entertainment.

It's entertaining from a fictional point of view. Julia was wonderful and charming, but there's not much more to tell in a series that stretches out for 8 episodes, so characters and scenarios had to be invented. An hour, maybe 2, on Julia's real life would have done the job.

The acting of Sarah Lancashire, David Hyde Pierce and Bebe Neuwirth are what keeps me watching. They are delightful. It's also nice to watch something that doesn't involve anything supernatural, violent or dependent on special effects. It's just upbeat and sweet.

I also love Fiona Glascott’s performance. That brief “happy dance” her character did after getting good news from Mrs. Knopf was wonderful.

Yet there are posters here who would claim that the "happy dance" had simply not been invented as early as1962.

Anything that watches the stench of Meryl Streep’s lame impersonation of Julia, I’m here for it. Both Meryl Streep as Julia Child and Will Smith as Muhammad Ali are two of the worst biopic performances in recent history.

Love the show although Sarah is giving me John Lithgow in drag. And I can’t unsee it.

Those hairstyle are not appropriate for the era! I will write a strongly worded letter to HBO with voluminous proof of this! It is ruining my enjoyment of a show I hate anyway! How dare they!!!! Bastards!!!

R180 I come to DL for such Mincing Prisspots, not you.

Sarah becomes Julia. Julia became Meryl.

"The lez lez friend is an invention, like the drag queen, the night at the club, the Black producer, Russ Morash not wanting to do the show and DuHamel being jealous of Julia. The showrunner feels constrained by facts. It is true Julia had a cooking show, a husband named Paul, a friend named Avis Devoto, a producer named Russ and an agent at Knopf. Enjoy it but don't confuse it with reality."

See also: The Crown, a similar gloss on known facts. I've lost count of how many times in The Crown I've said to myself, "Well, I'm pretty sure THAT conversation never happened." But then it's fictionalized history, not a Ken Burns documentary, so I let it go.

Fran Kranz looks waaay more like John Updike than Bryce Pinkham does, they should have switched parts (although it was a nice "Gentleman's Guide to Love and Murder" Broadway reunion with Jefferson Mays).

I want Fran Kranz to sit on my face.

I'm reading "Dearie," one of a number of Julia biographies, and this show really is loosely based on the story of her life. Emphasis on the word loosely.

Yes, Julia was on the book show with the stuffy professor. But before that, she'd already been on a national show - a show that preceded NBC's "Today" show.

This show depicts Julia having to ask WGBH to carry her show and them giving it a trial run reluctantly but in real life, when Russ went to her house in Cambridge, it was to ask her, not be convinced by her.

The scenes showing Alice cold calling all the various PBS stations simplified the situation - WGBH, as many who have ever watched PBS will know, was one of the stations that's always been involved with producing programs. And that was true for NET (National Education Television) - the predecessor of PBS. Soon enough, stations in Philadelphia, Chicago and Pittsburgh, among others, picked up her show. They would have already had the option to run the show.....those calls were ***GASP*** a fictionalized element.

Fran Kranz is hot and I think based on photos online he's gotten hotter as he's gotten older

r186, Oh my...

I can't wait until the series hits 1969/70 or so and Kranz can let his hair grow out and stop using that greasy kids' stuff in it. And maybe leave open a few shirt buttons, too.

Woof!

Waiting for the episode where he and actor playing John Updike 69

Get in line, R184, I wanted him on my face when I saw him in The Cabin in the Woods!

There is a big f-ing difference between fictionalized, but realistic elements for entertainment purposes and welding an unnecessary 21st Century plot onto an otherwise realistic story. The over-representation is at the expense of annoying more than half of your audience - all of whom are not going away.

This is why the Republicans will win in November and the "progressive" Democrats will have a meltdown in November.

I think her voice is spot on. I close my eyes and hear Julia, gasping for air and all.

I agree, R192. If you listen to Julia on any YouTube clip, you'll hear that Streep's take was exaggerated, almost like Dan Ackroyd's SNL skit.

And yet, it is you who are having the meltdown now, R191.

Oh sweetie, if you think that's a meltdown.....lololololol...just wait.

R195 Run along, the police are raiding your MAGA meth lab.

I have to admit, much as it pains me, I think I prefer Sarah Lancashire's Julia voice to Meryl Streep's take. R193 is right, Meryl's was more like a caricature, whereas Lancashire's is more natural. I like listening to it.

We can share, r190! 😊

You'll have to wait until I'm done with deepthroating Fran's cock and tonguing his hairy hole.

I'm all in for the show (I was lucky enough to meet Julia on two occasions) but I'm confused by the timeline. The SF audience had seen enough of her shows to create a gaggle of fans at the book signing (not to mention the drag queen). So what was the big deal of her seeming to audition for the PBS SF guys?

Yeah, that didn't make sense. Her book publisher said that the cookbook wasn't selling outside of Boston.

It was only AFTER the show that it started selling again.

And the show hadn't premiered in SF when Julia did that book signing.

Fran Kranz is Jaclyn Smith’s SIL…he married her daughter, Spencer.

Yes, I thought the timeline in SF was screwy. too. If you want to complain about something on the show, this would be it.

[quote]If you want to complain about something on the show, this would be it.4

And also, Alice.

see R185 - lots of the timeline has been ignored or twisted around.....

I love this show. I hope Sara gets an Emmy.

[quote] It's also nice to watch something that doesn't involve anything supernatural, violent or dependent on special effects.

If this were a Les Moonves thing, Avis would be gone, Julia Child would have been played by a 26 year old, and Judith would have been murdered and found with a deck of cards in her vagina.....only to learn that the spirit possessing Paul's body did it!

BUT...IT'S NOT...

This thread has made me go back and watch "Last Tango in Halifax." This was where I first saw Sarah Lancashire, and fell madly in love with her.

The show is just as wonderful as the first go 'round. And, Sarah is so amazing to watch!

Back to historical inaccuracies and defenders of it!

DHP's reaction when Julia's father asks him why else, other than money, would he marry Julia. That made me tear up.

AND THEN YOU WANTED TO LICK SOME DRIED UP CLIT?

This show is bland and boring as shit, and it's so reverent of its subject matter that everything about is so quaint and lovely.

The gal playing Alice is like an American version of Marianne Jean-Baptiste. And she plays her role in a similar way to how Baptiste played her role in Secrets and Lies. I half expect Brenda Blethyn to show up and announce she’s Alice’s birth mother.

Did anyone else catch the sly reference to Jacques-Louis David's famous painting The Death of Marat when DHP was in the bathtub with the wash cloth wrapped around his head?

I did R214! And I wondered if it was intentional.

I know Sarah Lancashire from HAPPY VALLEY and LAST TANGO IN HALIFAX, and now this. What an amazing actress…three vastly different performances. Is there anything else she’s been in I should try to find? I love her!

Happy Valley is one of the best things ever, I highly recommend it. Siobahn Finneran (O'Brien from Downton Abbey) plays her sister in it and the two are absolutely fantastic.

r215, the producer Daniel Goldfarb is a FB friend and when someone mentioned the Marat moment he said it was all DHP, that he came up with it spontaneously on set.

Very good episode. Loved the cameo by Isabella Rossellini. Sarah just gets better and better. I’ll be sorry to see it end.

Goldfarb is a crappy playwright. Better off in tv.

I'm very much enjoying it. now, let's talk

is this series suggesting that Julia was a repressed lesbytarian?

how about that editor, Judith?

[quote]The one who I'm really gaga for is Bebe Neuwirth's Avis DeVoto.

she actually comes across as more interesting as she is so understated yet intriguing

R221 I don't think so. I think that thing with her friend Iris was a night where in Julia's eyes they were doing tomboyish things - but clearly Iris saw it differently.

In real life JC and her husband had a number of gay and lesbian friends but were apparently a bit uncomfortable around overt mentions of homosexuality or campiness....however, when Julia's lawyer became ill with AIDS she apparently saw how silly that was and began to be more openly affirming.

Judith clearly wants the Fran Kranz sizemeat inside her.

she actually seemed turned off by him

also, I'd rather have that actor who plays updike, speaking of dikes. . .

Yeah, the actor who played Updike got the whole quiet and shy but horny and wound up thing perfectly......

^The great Bryce Pinkham!

I want Brice Pinkham and Fran Kranz in me quite deeply.

I'll be the filling in a Brice/Fran sandwich.

I hate to break this to you all, but pre-1970 most EVERYONE was uncomfortable with homosexuality, even people in the arts.

Many may have "tolerated" it in their few friends who were gay, but they were not okay with their activities and yearnings being spoken of in their company. Julia was merely a product of her times and her early homophobia was perfectly typical of 99% of Americans.

I think for people to say she was homophobic is looking through the eyes of today.

She did have gay men and lesbians in her life and knew they were gay or lesbian. But it was more of a private matter and not something to be publicly discussed. She and Paul disdained camp.

I've heard similar things from the prisspots here LOL.

But seriously, there's a big difference between "not entirely comfortable with discussing the subject" and "hate these people so much I'm going to hit them with a baseball bat."

Julia Child wasn't a hateful bigot, her views on homosexuality were completely in sync with a person of her generation and of the era in which this show takes place. As r230 said, homosexuality was "private." Nobody was really out. That's just the way it was. Julia Child's views on homosexuality changed as the years went on.

Bebe Neuwirth is delightful

When I started watching the show and saw the Alice character I felt embarrassed. But that was because I thought I knew, mas o menos, the Julia story and I never recalled there being an AA that was so instrumental in Childs’ success 🙄🙄🙄

I even went to google her name and character.

It took until I found this thread that I’m finding out this Alice person is completely made up. WTF.

Damn wokeness, they need to fuck right off.

Just like what they’re doing to the new Vampire Chronicle stories. They’ve changed it up so completely that it’s going to be unrecognizable when it finally does air.

Ugh. Oh, well, I still do enjoy the series and again, it took me reading a comment here to remember that Bebe and David worked together before. 🙄🙄

😬😬

Yikes! Episode 6 "Breads" was very disappointing. It seemed to be all over the place and very contrived in each of its (too) many story lines. I didn't like the earlier episode that was directed by Melanie Mayron either.

And....****SPOILER ALERT***I'm also shocked that they killed off Julia's father so soon. He was such a great (if difficult) character.

That's what I hate about the show r234 -- Julia didn't have a father. Yet the writers included a father character just for drama.

Julia's father actually died in 1962, when that episode took place.

R235 She most certainly did have a father. WTF?

r235, wherever would you get the idea that Julia didn't have a father??

R235 just flew right over R237's head.

i'm becoming disenchanted

I just watched this week's episode, and I agree with R233 and R240. It did feel all over the place, and I'm not sure what we're supposed to take from it. Alice is upset, Russ's baby is already here and he's exhausted and acting a little crazy, Julia is showing some not-so-nice traits (bordering on treating her support system like pawns and getting rather full of herself), Paul is making bread round the clock and thinks everyone has asbestos tiles..... Also, why does Julia have an electric oven, not gas? Did it not occur to anyone that the oven might have something to do with the problem of approximating French bread in America?

I don't know how much of the latter is based on reality, but this show plays fast and loose with the truth, as we know, so I'm treating them like quasi-fictional characters. Is this turning into a workplace soap opera?

I can't imagine living with a person who talks like Julia.

Alice is invisible because it's 1962, she's a woman and their token minority, but no one comes out and says that. Julia's father featured in a prior episode and in the Streep film; however he actually died before the show was on the air, according to wiki. He was your basic tyrannical, know it all Republican business man with no friends---one of my uncles was like that. Julia was probably ambivalent about his death---she was free of this awful relationship but he had given her many things (good education, etc.) that had gotten her this far, but never his approval. His death would have been enough to make an episode on it own and relatable---lots of people have these relationships (Alice, for example). The underlying theme of the episode is that the show is successful and bringing in money which is a mixed blessing for all concerned---if you've watched the prior episodes, that's pretty obvious.

*shrugs* This was likely the most filler-y of the episodes yet, but I liked it. I like the actress who plays Judith so it was nice to see her again.

Bebe is a goddess. The physical comedy with DHP and Bebe in the kitchen was priceless.

I will say that if there is any small scene where I would concede so called wokeness it's one that looks to be coming next week. Julia gets yelled at by some hag at an awards ceremony.

All I thought about during that silly scene with DHP and Bebe was why didn't Avis just take the food to her house. I presume she had a perfectly good kitchen.

I believe the "hag" in next week's episode is actually the character of Betty Friedan.

I really couldn't follow why Judith came all the way to Boston to spend a week with Julia. To edit her recipe for French bread? And then Julia had Paul and Judith figure out how to bake French bread because she was too busy with her TV show but then she seemingly absented herself from her TV show so Ava had to deal with the shopping and preparing. Where was Julia?

And then Russ, her producer......what is that character's arc now? It's become very muddled what his attitude is to Julia and her TV show. And the senior producer played by the lovely Robert Joy is written to be a total idiot.

Judith was intending to work with Julia, but since they had to reshoot the show, Julia had to have Paul and Judith work on the bread. But yes, we know that because they told us - I agree they didn't do a great job of showing it on screen.

I remember her as "Raquel" on Coronation Street. How many disparate characters she plays convincingly is stunning. I agree with R40, pleased she's getting a big, international project.

R248 unfortunately we can't see that clip in the US.

But O M F G

I just searched for other clips and she can SAAAAANNNNGGGGG! Sarah for Mame? Follies?

We are cautioned that the scene between Julia and Betty Friedan never happened. I don't think Julia's recipes forced anyone back in the kitchen. It gave women who liked to cook a new skill set and created consumers of French wine and French food. Women like Ina and the Silver Palate lady who grew up on julia opened their high end delis in the 80s..

The women who felt pressure to put Julia's food on the table were upper middle class, country club wives who could get even by fucking the tennis pro or pool boy.

Thanks, r249. She is indeed a Mame. And possibly a Sally.

Inaccuracies aside, I stayed up far too late watching all available episodes just because the series is so charming. And what an absolute pleasure seeing DHP and Bebe play off each other again like Fred and Ginger. Thanks HBO. All the awards for the main cast. Sarah is a treasure (even if she looks like my mom).

She’d be a fabulous Mame.

With Tracie Bennett as Vera.

Yeah, yeah, I know she’s played Mame already (in Manchester) but she’s a Vera, not a Mame.

If I have to watch I'd rather see it without Tracie Bennett as anyone.

As a costume person I always found it interesting how Sarah Lancashire's weight issues were so well-camouflaged by soft drapey layers and cardigans in LAST TANGO IN HALIFAX, though it became quite challenging in the last season. She also seemed to love to wear her beautiful blonde hair and heavy bangs as a sort of curtain framing her face.

So it's refreshing to see her all wonderfully trussed up like a holiday goose in her 1960s corsets and girdles and her brunette bob as Julia. I think all of the costuming by John Dunn who designed Boardwalk Empire and Dickinson is quite wonderful and authentic.

I’m behind and watched the San Francisco episode last night. I know it’s historical fiction, but, Jaysis, 90% of that episode never came close to happening. Is there a reason the show spends time with the made-up Composite Character and her mother? It’s called “Julia” — stick to her, show. The last scene with Julia and Paul ordering hotel room service was the best one in the episode. And kudos to the actor playing James Beard; he was a treat.

can we get the hot jew pieces of ass into one frame? the ex husband from "mrs maisel" and the director guy in this show? some live action fucking, please?

Seeing DHP in the bathrobe at the hotel right after rewatching the "Porte d'Argent/Relaxation Grotto" episode of Frasier was surreal.

I was reminded that Joan Cusack was originally attached to the show. They dodged a bullet with that one.

R260 as who, Julia? Dear gawd, no.

With Tom Hollander as Paul. Good actor but DHP was the better choice.

Why did Joan Cusack not do it?

Never heard why. One account was that she had to leave the project, possibly due to COVID-related schedule changes. But nothing concrete.

Joan hasn't done much of anything in years and I think this is maybe the second or third project that she left.....something's going on with her, I think.

tertiary syphilis

I actually disagree and think Tom Hollander would have been incredible as Paul. DHP is very good but there's always, inevitably, a little bit of Niles Crane sneaking in. Hollander would have played even better off of Lancashire. More depth.

With Bebe, though, gotta say, there's no Lilith.

A nice piece on DHP.

Sort of irritated that so many press outlets are making 90 percent of their interviews about Frasier and then "oh, I guess you're in this new thing too." (Not complaining about this one per se but it's an overall theme)

The story I heard is that Cusack would only do the show if they shot it where she lives-Chicago. But Goldfarb was intent on it being shot in Boston. It could have been shot in NYC and nobody would know the difference.

glad the DL klan grannies have something else to rage on for a change

r270 the klan granny shit never caught on

r 241 Her oven was electric and her stove was gas. Of all the inaccuracies in this, that was the strangest one to me.

That's odd to you, R272. I'll bet most US houses with gas ranges have electric ovens. Mine does.

I meant cooktops, not ranges.

I meant cockups

r273 I've never been in a house/home that had that configuration. If you have a gas hookup why would you bother with electric anything in a kitchen.

What is the difference between a cooktop and a range?

I am sure there is some obscure distinction that someone on DL will delight in showing their knowledge of.

A range combines a cooktop and an oven in the same appliance, r277.

R276, if the oven is mounted in a different cabinet than the cooktop (for example, the cooktop on an island, and the oven is in the wall) then you'd have to run gas to two different locations.

I think electric ovens have better accuracy. But gas burners are the better ones. Odd, I know. Both my oven and burners are electric.

BTW, starting soon new apartment buildings going up in NYC will not be allowed to have gas hookups anymore for ovens, burners or even in apartment dryers. I think it has something to do with the environment. No more cooking or drying clothes with gas for those living in NYC, actually it might have been all of NYS, I don't remember. They will not be making people who already have gas in their buildings switch out, so far. Good thing Ina Garten already got her $60,000 gas stove/oven for her NYC apartment that she bought a couple of years ago.

Though some of Julia was shot in Boston, apparently most of it was done in Toronto.

Hence all those actors I've never heard of in small roles.

R277 I didn't know what R278 explains until recently, because my parents always had a range (where the burners and oven are in a single appliance.

But when we moved into a new home, we now have a double gas oven on one way (very Brady Bunch) and a gas cooktop on another counter. In this particular case both are gas. My other half really wants to replace it with induction which is a whole other argument for another thread!

some people still cook with wood and dung. stfu.

Will the series address her affair with Jacque Pepin?

R283 I didn't want to break the no spoiler rule, but in the final episode, they show them together in bed. You won't believe where Pepin puts his wooden spoons......

Absolutely none of it was done in Toronto, R280. Where the fuck did you come up with that? A friend of mine was one of the ADs on it, she worked on it in Boston from early June until late September last year.

R280, make IMDb your friend and then look up the filming locations-all of themwere in Massachusetts (Boston, Concord, Framingham, etc). The reason there were some actors who you didn’t recognize is that they used a lot of locals from the Boston/Providence pool, like the guy playing Benny, the main cameraman for The French Chef.

Here’s more detail as to specifically where Julia was shot:

Benny the Cameraman is HOT!

R288, his name’s Michael Malvesti. He’s a local actor who will next be seen as a detective in The Boston Strangler which just finished shooting.

I liked his line in the most recent episode “I thought she was going to make doughnuts.”

this Cake Baking Thread is Tearing Us Apart!!

And we still didn’t get to see what sweet breads actually look like when they’re finally made? I’m too lazy to go on Google.

yes, her early show are barfola. tearing beasts apart!

Enjoying the show, loving what I have found of the real Child thus far....

But this bitch really didn't know how to make spaghetti for children. They'd wrinkle their nose at half the shit she threw in there. A for effort, though!

Can someone translate that?

I want to shove a red hot asbestos poker into julia right now

I want Fran Kranz to shove his rock hard poker into me

i'll fuck him after

yes please

Not that I don't find Kranz somewhat sexy (esp. in the posted pre-JULIA stills)......but is all the lust for him here coming from stuff you've all seen him in before JULIA? I'm not quite getting the heat though JULIA is my first encounter with him.

He was adorable in a highly underrated film comedy about the ins and outs of producing a pilot called The TV Set. Sigourney Weaver is hilarious in it as a network executive with a passion for Xena Warrior Princess.

I just discovered Fran Kranz in Julia and think he’s sex on a stick

A short on Sarah Lancashire's transformation into Julia.

Lovely short, r302, though I wish they'd showed something of her physical transformation with costumes, wig and makeup.

Fran's character on Julia just seems so tightly wired....but he'd come home and give you a good explosive pounding.

or spanking

Wow Betty Friedan was a real cunt!

This never happened. R56's reaction is why this series' depiction of real people is so troubling. Friedan may well have been a bitch but not for that reason. Or she may have been a feminist who got on people's nerves.

Bebe and DHP need to have their own show.

“I Happen to Like New York.” Uggh. I happen to hate that song.

That last scene with Mr. Rogers was very sweet, though.

So will this be in the comedy or drama category at the Emmys? I guess in the comedy category.

Episode was good to middling (DHP and his Nileisms are really beginning to grate one me) but that final scene with Fred Rogers was just so perfectly touching and Rob McClure played him brilliantly. Oh, and I also find Judith Light terribly one note as Mrs. Knopf.

But I actually enjoyed the Friedan scene and found it wholly plausible and pertinent even if it never happened. It was a great reminder of what else was cooking in America in the early 60s.

the snotty french chef needs to go down on the hot black lawyer dude

I am FFing through all of Alice's scenes where it's just her and not her with the main cast. I really don't give a shit.

Oh no, r312, then you must have missed her bedroom scene with her hot black lawyer dude in the nude.

I wept once I realized it was Fred Rogers. Sorry, he's my lifetime to thinking that humanity had or has any redeeming qualities. I admit to having no objectivity there.

I was the one back at R243 that said there was a "hag" yelling at Julia. I thought it would be a "woke" moment as some of our posters have complained about. But it was a decent scene, once viewed within the larger context of the others who were pushing back against Julia or Judith.

I generally like Judith Light but she is playing a dour bitch here and seems to be there for the paycheck.

I like Judith Light but you can always see her ACTING. Bebe is just so fucking fabulous.

Would Friedan have been such a sour cunt first meeting someone? HATED HER.

I know my mother occasionally watched Julia but never made one of her recipes. I asked two friends and their experience was the same. I don't think Julia put anybody back in the kitchen, and I think most people watched her because she was a hoot. I can't imagine any husband forcing his wife to cook one of Julia's recipes If she really hated him, she might do it voluntarily to clog his arteries. The notion that a random person would say "I love her and I've cooked all her recipes," strikes me as far-fetched.

[quote] and you'd like a "wokeness" hater would enjoy a review calling them out for trying and failing

No, R10, they're saying it's an excellent example of wokefulness.

I suspect Friedan was exactly like that. It reminded me of my encounters with women who had just begun to think about whet their lives were like. Even Donna Reed talked a bit like that once her show was over---the compromises she had to make with male executives from the network, sponsor, etc. Reed herself was more of a proto-feminist than her show would have suggested although not quite a closet Friedan. Friedan had never been a truly typical housewife--more political, but the book had liberated her from the social constraints of suburban housewifery which had probably kept her from always speaking her mind. Feminism was a much broader movement in the beginning than it seems today---it, unfortunately, became a movement that only seemed to serve well-off professional women.

I found the Friedan scene perfectly plausible, even if it didn't happen. Friedan would have probably taken every opportunity to articulate her message, even to the point of being rude. But so much of the show is fictionalized to make a point, why not this?

Hate that they're making Paul such a buffoon. He was known to be a rather elegant gentleman.

Couldn't help to reflect on the terrible career collapse that was waiting for Vaughn Meader not too far down the road.

Judith Light ALWAYS overacts IMHO. But I suspect the real Blanche was quite the cunt.

My grandmother was a HS classmate of Friedan’s

She called her “a popular girl, very well connected”. She gave the impression that she played the long political game very well, even from HS. I’m not so sure about the veracity of this exchange (why was she at public television gala anyway?) but she might have had a heated exchange with Childs simply to show off her debating skills.

R314 again here and though I loved the Fred Rogers bit, upon further reflection, that really took some liberties.

If this gala was in mid to late 1963 (pre JFK assassination) he was either in divinity school or in Canada working on the predecessor to his PBS show. PBS itself didn't even exist yet (it would be some time before NET, its predecessor, was organized nationwide).

Looked in Julia's bio and it seems that Friedan's book was published 8 days after Julia's first cookbook. So it's plausible that BF was doing the select talk show circuit. More likely PBS than Mike Douglas.

They took a lot of liberties, but that's what this show has done since the beginning. As much as I like many of the actors, it rarely rings true for me. I do find it watchable, even though I cringe a lot. And I still think Lancashire sounds more like Angela Lansbury than Julia Child. :)

I think if there is a Season 2 (it hasn’t been announced yet) Julia should solve murders along with doing her TV show and writing her next cookbook.

We need a storyline in season 2 that Russ has to visit a tailor, because his enormous schwanz can't fit into traditional suits.

I'd bet on a second season, given the popularity of this one: her international celebrity, the death of Paul, etc. Maybe even a prequel.

Paul didn't die until the 1990s.

It may also depend on Sarah Lancashire's willingness to return to the US for filming.

So, r328? The second season could take us through the rest of her life.

The real excitement in her story from a writer's perspective seems to be the show and the second book.

Paul had a lengthy decline in real life. Not that they're paying much attention to THAT.

r331 the early 60s, when this season takes place, was long before Paul's decline.

Julia Child explains how The French Chef started....

Stanley Tucci was great as Paul in Julie and Julia. Sexy, brainy, kind of dashing and a tad fey.

I'm afraid DHP is getting worse with each episode. I found the scenes with him fluish in the hotel unbearably unfunny and even the brilliant Bebe couldn't save them.

The show shouldn't have been made, says this Eater writer.

What's it to them that the story is told again?

They're after page views, r337.

I won't watch a second season. One season is enough. With each episode, the charm is slowly wearing off.

I'd continue watching but I can agree somewhat, r339. Is it my imagination but is Sarah as Julia slowly becoming a supporting player in her own series?

excuse me but no one has mentioned me in at least 6 posts

Paul is unbearable to watch, I wish he'd have fewer scenes. His sick manbaby scene at the hotel was excruciating.

Any excuse to get DHP and Bebe in a scene works for me.

R336 the Eater article is bad clickbait.

And it's clickbait written by a young "queer" woman of color, who can manage to both complain about the black character and yet complain there aren't enough black faces in the show.

[quote]And we still didn’t get to see what sweet breads actually look like when they’re finally made? I’m too lazy to go on Google.

Watch here from 12 minutes in.

I'm not a vegetarian but I felt quite nauseous watching the scenes. Bebe Neuwirth's revulsion was well acted.

Thanks R346 that made me hungry...I love sweetbreads.

In the biography I read about her, the Maryland Public Television shows with Julia are seen as a bit of a comedown from her earlier shows.

WGBH had a bit of a falling out with her after she did a show somewhere in the 80s, I think, that showed high end restaurant, people dressing up, etc. It didn't do well and the thinking was that Julia had abandoned her loyal viewers for some snobby types.

The biography is quite good.

They don't seem to know what to do with Paul, which is part of the problem. Hyde-Pierce also doesn't seem to be having any fun with the role. Streep and Tucci seemed to enjoy what they were playing together and Paul's career plays a bigger part in the film.

Bebe Neuwirth is great as Avis. It really shows a range of what she can do. I'm sure Blanche Knopf was no walk in park, but Light does seem to be trying to hard--one can do cold, remote, and opinionated in away that's more relatable. Lots of people have family like this, so it can be done. Instead, Light sometimes seems to be part of a different show.

With every episode I'm seeing less of Paul and more of Niles in DHP's performance. That is not what I want to see. It makes me think poorly of an actor I always had high regards for. Bebe is still doing okay but I sit watching waiting for Lilith to show up. I think the show peaked with the James Beard episode.

I watched the behind the scenes video at R302 and was a bit taken aback by seeing Sarah Lancashire.

Don't Mary! me but she really *becomes* Julia.

Maybe it's because she's been on tv for 30 years, from Coronation Street to Clocking Off to Seeing Red to My Fragile Heart to Five Daughters to Last Tango In Halifax to Happy Valley to Kiri. MotherFatherSon was fucking awful (not because of her) and I stopped after one episode and gave The Accident a miss as the Welsh accent is never easy to do.

Can anyone imagine Joan Cusack in the role now?

I've posted this before, but if you haven't seen Happy Valley you should check it out. It is fantastic.

R351, did you see her in that one woman TV play An Ordinary Woman, part of the Talking Heads series. She was heartbreaking as Gwen, a middle aged wife and mother who’s tortured by the fact that she’s actually deeply in love with her fifteen year old son.

Sarah Lancashire was wasted in that Brit TV series about a department store.....not the Jeremy Piven SELFRIDGES but another one and I'm blanking on the title......

I think the DHP problem is that he becomes Niles (especially his voice) in all of his comic scenes, which become schticky sit-commish.

I didn't really "see" Niles but I admit in the last sick bed episode some Niles seeped through.

Niles' blonde hair is long gone.

It'll be interesting to see if it resurfaces in the Frasier reboot. I imagine it will.

Unfortunately, the one about the department store is the one show when Sarah was pretty bad. She's been great in everything else I've seen.

According to DHP and Bebe, they are not participating in the Frasier reboot. Or not at this time. Apparently very little has actually been said about it, so it seems like it's still in development.

Who the hell wants to see Fraiser without Niles, the father, Lilith and the dog Eddie? What...just Fraiser, Daph and Roz?

I need to see it now

use your phone for a discreet selfie of those parts.

I don't know what you all are complaining about, I find the show just as engaging now as it has always been.

[quote]The reason why he gets all the more attention is because he was handsome, athletic, and white, and having a relationship with someone in the Armed Services at the time. He was a fantasy at the time of the kind of men people wished were gay and out.

Very, very, true.

But I'd also argue that timing came into it as well.

Norm's season was, definitely more "Real" and not as geared towards "fun" as the other seasons were.

Dan R. was bitchy and could be downright mean and nasty. I didn't hate him but I wouldn't have wanted to hang out with him when I was a kid.

Pedro could be nice but he was otherwise vacillating between serious or testy all season.

Stephen was a hot ass mess, and not out, of course.

Justin from Hawaii came off as a stuck up, evil, little troll who got the last minute villain edit.

Danny was (in addition to what was written above) also generally affable and spent his time running around naked, being funny with Kelley and Melissa, and occasionally would cry over Paul and their great "love story" before he accidentally would make out with a guy then cry over that. His situation was serious with Don't Ask, Don't Tell at the time but he, himself, actually bothered to have fun. The age, the look and the attitude all came together in just the right way. That season, overall, was about as serious as Hawaii which wasn't serious at all. It was less about "Being real" and more about having fun.

ummmm

R264, are you lost, dearie?

Or r364, are you lost, too?

don't ask, don't tell, fellas

Size 12 feet??? Are you kidding?

And I thought I had big feet at a size 10 😧

Is DL being screwy again? Some of these posts aren't making any sense! (At least, not in this thread )

The article linked at r336 is a perfect example of SJW rhetorical failure: complaining that the thing you are critiquing isn’t something else entirely.

she's a cunt, there is only one more episode

[quote]The article linked at [R336] is a perfect example of SJW rhetorical failure: complaining that the thing you are critiquing isn’t something else entirely.

I can't believe I just read it to the end.

Pointless. Beyond pointless.

Although it did male me think five words. VIOLA DAVIS IS RUSTIE LEE.

In an article in the NYT Mag about Michael R Jackson, the Black writer of the Broadway musical A Strange Loop, he makes clear what his views are of "re-writing history" to fit current thinking into works depicting a different period. He calls his views “anti-wokeism.”

“There’s so much presentism in so many works, particularly the ones that are dealing with historical issues. I’m kind of like, Why is there this weird rewriting of history so that it can flatter you and validate you? Why can’t we just tell stories about these people as they were and whatever their positions and attitudes were? I think that that’s actually a lot more powerful, because then you can understand how other people lived and thought and dreamed and made mistakes or whatever. I keep seeing all of this stuff that’s like, This is just like right now, and I’m like, No it isn’t!"

And this certainly applies to Alice who would absolutely not have been a producer at WGBH Boston in 1962.

I understand what their trying to do with the Alice character, but every time the story shifts to Alice, the show comes to a screeching halt.

I'm watching for Julia's story. I have no interest in Alice's mother or Alice's love life.

I was OK with Alice in the beginning and her support of Julia and making the calls to sell the show. It was fictional, but at least it fit with the unfolding story of Julia's rise to fame and I was willing to suspend disbelieve.

But this is not the Alice show and it seems that Julia has become just a footnote in Alice's fairy tale.

I know it's they're not their. I wish we had an edit button.

I agree r375. The show is supposed to be about Julia Child.

I like Alice. I like seeing her in the studio. I think a scene, maybe two of Alice with her mom would be great in adding a few nuances to her character.

Seeing her on a date really did take me out of the story. Not because of the character, or how real or fictional she may or may not be, and not because she is a woman of color. But it suddenly became the fucking Gilmore Girls for 5 minutes, which was not the show I wanted to watch.

Alice is barely in it. It IS the Julia show.

You obviously haven’t watched every episode, R379.

Curious to see if there’s one moment in the season finale where Alice is the recipient of some form of racial discrimination at work. Like maybe Russ is off one day and cameraman Benny won’t take direction from a black woman? Nah, it won’t happen. Because not once has there been one instant where Alice’s skin color has been an issue regarding her work storylines, only her gender. Which is patently ridiculous.

[quote] Because not once has there been one instant where Alice’s skin color has been an issue regarding her work storylines, only her gender. Which is patently ridiculous.

Especially since Boston is one of the most racist places on Earth, and back in those days? OMG! 😂

You need to learn a little history, R381. Because you’re coming off as an ignorant piece of shit.

r382 do you even know Boston? You can just STFU.

Yeah, R383/asshole, I actually do. And there’s been racial tension and discrimination up there, too. It actually still exists to an extent. Do you actually believe Boston was a fucking Utopia regarding race in the early 1960s? Moron.

[quote] Do you actually believe Boston was a fucking Utopia regarding race in the early 1960s? Moron.

Actually, I said just the opposite in my post @383. Boston has always been racist.

I wish people who complain about the series on Julia would list other cookbook authors they find more worthy.

R380, since racial discrimination is never really mentioned, after all, no one seems to notice that Alice is black. And her date is a highly educated doctor (or was it a lawyer?? I zoned out). Anyway, it's more about women making their mark in a man's world. So, I think Alice is going have to decide if she wants a career or to become a wife. You know, the lecture that Betty Friedan gave to Julia was really leading up to Alice's big decision. So again, it's all about Alice.

[quote]I wish people who complain about the series on Julia would list other cookbook authors they find more worthy.

This has nothing to do with anything. It's supposed to be a show about Julia Child. First they shoehorned in a completely fictional character and then the fictional character is having her own subplot. Fuck this shit and get back to Julia!

don't watch cunt. wtf is it with you trolls that just argue.

you probably are some rethug starting pedo threads too.

FFS r389 you're a nasty piece of work.

you are the racist cunt. fuck off.

r391 it's not racist to complain about a fictional character being shoehorned into a show. Julia Child's story is quite interesting, it didn't need to have fictionalized elements that are wildly inaccurate.

we can see all through your white privilege in your posts, cracker!

I guess the reason Alice character has never bothered me is because, though she's supposedly an associate producer, she's treated like nothing more than an intern. It feels like the WGBH studio they've created on JULIA is a very primitive small low-level local station, not yet taken very seriously by the general public. So an intern....or associate producer position.....or whatever you want to call Alice, seems very accessible to a highly educated, attractive and ambitious young black woman, even in 1962.

Granted, she would have been an exceptional case, but not an impossibility. It's not unlike insisting that Sidney Poitier and Dorothy Dandridge weren't popular Hollywood movie stars in 1962. Those of you who don't want to go there, and I realize you're in the majority here....well, that's your problem and I'd suggest you stop watching the show.

[quote] Curious to see if there’s one moment in the season finale where Alice is the recipient of some form of racial discrimination at work.

The butcher guy wouldn't wait on her, only Avis.

Also, Avis made assumptions about her education level.

No one is calling her "gal" or the N word, but the point is being made that some of these things are done in subtle ways. Which does not make them any less demeaning or uncomfortable.

R394, You can’t compare performers like Poitier and Dandridge attaining success in front of the camera with that of Black men and women trying to acquire some sort of career behind the camera. Two completely different things.

Why is it different, r396?

Educate us.

r395 calling black women "gal" wasn't a thing in the Northeast.

Because, R394, back then (and decades earlier) it was entirely possible for black actors, entertainers, musicians, etc to have successful careers in their chosen field whereas black screenwriters, directors, producers, cinematographers, etc had a substantially more significant struggle to even establish a career. In 1962 (when Julia is set) they were virtually invisible behind the scenes EVERYWHERE. That’s the way it was. That was the reality, unfair as it was. I don’t feel the need to “educate” you any further than that.

R398 Yes, I was well aware of that, which was the very reason I mentioned it. Aren't you the clever one for noticing.

My point was that racism doesn't have to be portrayed with burning crosses, ugly words, etc. for it to be real and clearly depicted for the audience.

So don't say they didn't call her "gal" when you know the damn show is set in Boston.

This is the kind of bullshit that happens with inserting woke stuff where it doesn't belong. This is supposed to be a show about Julia Child and look what it's turned into! If they're going to do a damn period piece, then stay true to the period unless it's deliberately abstract/fantasy like Bridgerton.

Have to block the asshole at R401. Life is short.

Sorry r403 but you were wrong.

Personally *I* don't have a problem with a black character so I'm going to post repeatedly about it to make my point clear.

You're lying of course, R405. In those days, you would have said "some of my best friends are..." when of course they weren't. In 1962, there were still a lot of Protestants who would have put Catholics in the "...". There was a lot of lying then and now.

Julia needs to slap someone

I long ago with the series accepted that it is as realistic a portrayal of JC as MRS. MAISEL is of a female stand-up wannabe in the late 50s/early 60s. Not surprisingly, some of the creatives behind the scenes are involved in both. So I just let myself enjoy it for what it is, flaws and all.

oh what is wrong with me

but I promise I'll figure it out

R404 I wasn't wrong, because I never, ever, ever, ever said or suggested that a person in Boston called anyone "gal." Anyone who got that from what I said misinterpreted my post.

I was making a point that for years, people have watched TV shows or movies that show someone doing something obvious LIKE calling a woman "gal", a man "boy", denying them access (at the store, at the water fountain, etc.)

The thing that happened on this show, based in Boston, was not as obvious. I wasn't suggesting anyone in Boston would have ever used that word. I was saying the show is making a subtle point, not an obvious one.

I have no idea why this comparison was (a) hard to grasp and (b) mistaken as me claiming someone called her gal.

this is very hard to realize. it makes it difficult for all of us

Let’s take this from another angle using another series called Julia:

In the CBS series starring Diahann Carroll, which ran from 1968-1971, there was not one black person either in the production staff or on the crew on that show. The writers, directors, editors, producers, cinematographers, costume designers, etc were all white men. OK, there were a few white women on the writing team but that was it. Because black people were nowhere near to getting the opportunities to do those jobs. Period.

r412, how do you know there were no black people working on Diahann Carroll's Julia?

I remember reading that when Bill Cosby was cast In I Spy (earlier than Julia) he insisted on a black stand-in/stunt man and one was hired.

Make IMDb your friend, R414.

[quote]I remember reading that when Bill Cosby was cast In I Spy (earlier than Julia) he insisted on a black stand-in/stunt man and one was hired.

Was that before or after he drugged the script girl and then raped her while she was passed out?

I think the press reaction/critical reactions have been mixed or muted.....as much as I like this show, I don't see it getting a season 2.

92% critic's score and 93% audience score on Rotten Tomatoes.

I'm enjoying the series, but that first episode I Googled and found out the Black character was fictional. Evidently, they also took exceptional liberties with the editor as well. I'd link the article if I could remember where I read it.

R392, you are not racist, but it is the story of the black producer you object to, not the many other fictional elements involving white people such as Russ, Judith, Duhamel, Hunter, etc.

And even worse, many of these characters use the names of real people for characters that completely distort their namesakes.

r420 there might be some minor tweaking with those people, but they weren't completely fictionalized and shoehorned into a project where they are completely anachronistic, and historically whatever license was taken is still accurate to the actual events. There is always some dramatic license taken with biographical projects, but the Alice character is egregiously inaccurate.

r413, IMDb is my friend and she's telling me she doesn't always reveal the skin colors of associate producers and other off-camera staff.

R421, actually no. Russ Morash and Albert Duhamel bear little relationship to the people they are named after. Their stories are completely fictionalized and not at all accurate to actual events.

But nice try.

[quote]The actress playing Alice is good but it’s really quite a deceitful trick to play on the audience making them think that a Black woman actually produced a show at WGBH Boston in the early 1960s. Even in Boston that would have been next to impossible.

Shhhhh! We can't have the white people knowing how terrible their relatives and ancestors were

r423 again, dramatic license is always taken. It's not egregiously inaccurate. And Duhamel did not like Julia.

r420/423 do you work for HBO? You have no other posts in any other threads, just this one, bending over backwards to defend the weaknesses in the story.

Russ Morash was interviewed in the very recent Julia Child documentary film and what he said in the doc aligns with his portrayal on the show.

"I love the show but....but....but there's a col......a BLACK person in this story!"

r428 stop projecting. Discerning audiences are more critical about accuracy than people who will be spoon fed constant bullshit.

[quote]"I love the show but....but....but there's a col......a BLACK person in this story!"

It is very telling that including a black character is the one thing people obsess over in this thread.

I've no doubt there are other factual inaccuracies in the show that someone around in the early 60s could highlight- how authentic was the drag bar? - but THE BLACK WOMAN is the aspect that generates most displeasure.

The drag bar was also called out for probably not really happening, but it also would not have been inauthentic to the time period. And god knows James Beard was a total flamer who definitely would've gone to a drag bar.

[quote]but THE BLACK WOMAN is the aspect that generates most displeasure.

Because it's the only element to this show that is completely fictionalized, shoehorned in to fit a contemporary agenda and completely inaccurate for the time period. It's insulting to the audience.

If you were doing a WWII story would you have women as combat troops? A black man as a general? Of course not. It would be ridiculous.

R216, Alan Bennett wrote a new series of his Talking Heads monologues a few years ago. Sarah Lancashire performed the role of a woman who becomes sexually attracted to her teenage son. It was disturbing stuff, and brilliantly acted.

R426, no. I have posted to a lot of threads over the last decade and started a fair number of threads.

But I have a feeling you knew that and were just trying to find something to discredit common sense.

R427, I have not seen the documentary, but I have read the two major biographies of Child and they actually describe a Morash's actions as something VERY different than what the show represents. They indicate that he and Duhamel were enthusiastic about Child's show---not antagonistic at all.

[quote][R216], Alan Bennett wrote a new series of his Talking Heads monologues a few years ago. Sarah Lancashire performed the role of a woman who becomes sexually attracted to her teenage son. It was disturbing stuff, and brilliantly acted.

Sorry to be picky but it wasn't a new series. There were 10 remakes of the previous 12 "episodes" (they skipped the two Thora Hurd ones because it was filmed in lockdown and it was too risky to get an actress the right age to do the scenes) and Bennett wrote two new episodes. Lancashire did one and Monica Dolan did the other, which was by far the superior.

The remakes were hit and miss. Jodie Comer didn't work for me in place of Julie Walters as the actress who ends up in a porn film but Kristin Scott Thomas was marvellous as the bitter and malevolent antiques dealer.

I hate making you insecure

The Alice character would have made sense if she was just kept to her duties at the broadcast studio, but she wasn't. Instead, we are introduced to her home life, her mother, a date she went on with a man her mother hooked her up with, her fussing over what to wear. Nothing that has to do with Julia. It's like she's in her own spinoff show.

Same with Russell. We got a look into his home life. At first it made sense because while he was not enthusiastic about Julia, his wife was and that made him see that a cooking show with Julia was viable. But, what was the purpose of his wife getting pregnant and having a baby? It went nowhere and seems to have been dropped.

I guess it's to subtly bring us into the Women's Liberation movement??

R438, this is one of the things they distort. Morash was enthusiastic about Child in part because his wife Marian was herself a cook of note. But because they decided to make Morash an antagonist, they had to make his wife an unskilled cook.

[quote]Because it's the only element to this show that is completely fictionalized, shoehorned in to fit a contemporary agenda and completely inaccurate for the time period. It's insulting to the audience. If you were doing a WWII story would you have women as combat troops? A black man as a general? Of course not. It would be ridiculous.

A woman in combat troops? No, unless it was Laverne Cox. A Black man as a general? Yes, unless it was Laverne Cox.

I smell a hit r440!

My first reaction to Alice in the first episode was that this doesn't ring true, but okay, although totally unlikely it was possible. But to give a fictional character, any fictional character such a huge chunk of the story is what I have a real big problem with. If they did a big secondary plot about Avis or Mavis or whatever I might be a little annoyed but it would be okay, not because she's white but because she was really a big part of Julia's life as was the book editor. I actually find the actress who plays Alice likable and a good actress but I don't GAS about her personal life. It is an intrusion into the series that is supposed to be all about Julia or Julia and Paul.

Speaking of Paul, I thought DHP was a great choice at the beginning. Now I'm seeing way too much Niles. He is not staying in character and is disappointing because I thought he was that good an actor that Niles would be long gone from any new characters he played. The best of show is Bebe. I don't see even a glimpse of Lilith so kudos to her.

Bebe Neuwirth is always fantastic, and very watchable.

The historical inaccuracies bother me in the same way with Ryan Murphy's Hollywood, I halfway expected Murphy to include a pride event in 1940's Hollywood...disrespectful and dismissive of those that fought so hard for change.

Classic Sarah Lancashire scene as barmaid Raquel in Coronation Street. Always trying to better herself and still not quite getting it right.

[quote]If you were doing a WWII story would you have women as combat troops? A black man as a general? Of course not. It would be ridiculous.

I fully expect we'll see both in the not-too-distant future, at least on the stage.

R444, Ryan Murphy’s Hollywood was set in an alternate universe where a 1940s Hollywood is perfectly integrated. Shonda Rhimes’ Bridgerton is also set in an alternate universe where a Regency era England has black and brown people in its aristocracy. Julia isn’t like that. Like Mad Men it attempts to depict the way things really were back then. But inserting a black character into the TV station in a position of authority goes against that. If Mad Men had introduced an art director played by Viola Davis it would have been a glaring anachronism no matter how well Ms. David played her.

Goldfarb’s big mistake was not making Alice the receptionist at WGBH and then have her eventually become a production assistant on The French Chef.

I was disappointed to find it a little less than charming, a little less than engaging. Reading biographical profiles of JC over the years, I always found her interesting: personality, background, and how she came to be a defining character in cooking.

But the series glosses over interesting bits and makes too much of a sort of dumb luck view of her success even as it attempts to celebrate her genuine talents and dedication to lofty goals. It just errs too often at simplification where some some complexity was the necessary ingredient - and in that respect it makes some of the time and effort spent on fictionalization all the odder. Why simplify an interesting complex character in order to devote the saved to to complicating and fabricating peripheral aspects of her story?

I wanted a richer JC, and got a too benign, too put upon hero.

I blame the Mrs. Maisel guy. That show suffers from the same manipulation of fact and history. (And the use of pop tunes.) But I still enjoy it. (Mrs. Maisel not so much.)

I love the sound track

.....

It's really unclear what the story arc will be here, esp. if its renewed---the show, some sort of evolution of the woman, etc. And they may as well write Paul out of show--they have no idea what to do with him.

I don’t think Russ will be in Season 2, he’ll probably be off shooting his documentary even if it’s done in Boston. I also don’t know how they can keep Judith in the storyline.

IRL Russ's wife became an integral part of JC's show and then became a chef of sorts - depending on how far forward they went, Russ could still play a part.

Judith and Julia remained connected until later years and then had a bit of a falling out.

You can't trust this show. Most of the stories and events are fake. Both Morashs are still alive. He was always in favor of the show. The storyline that he didn't is not true. Marian was a chef and friends with Beard. Later they did This Old House and Victory Garden. The Alice character has taken over the show.

"Inspired" by the show you twats.

Go see Naomi, you miserable cunts.

[quote] The Alice character has taken over the show.

Let us say more on this. I'm sure there's some fresh take on this that the other 989,467,378,194,264,253,194,587 comments already posted on this topic simply did not cover.

[quote] The Alice character has taken over the show.

the bitch is so uppity

I think Season 2 would have to be a significant time jump but not so much that all the leads would have to wear old age make-up. Maybe it could be set in 1970/1971 with the US in the middle of the Vietnam war and a Nixon administration.

Jaques and the home episodes. Throw in whatshername her assistant, Sarah...whatever...Moulton.

R456, that was very interesting. I had no idea.

That really changes everything and puts a new spin on the show that's kind of disappointing.

So, the series is just Julia in name only. There is nothing accurate about it, except Sarah Lancashire's performance.

I think the show in the second season could play well off of all the cultural changes of the late 1960s, and how Julia and Paul become more enlightened and liberal. Obviously, it's already doing some of that but if S2 skipped a few years there'd be lots to explore in 1969 (lol!).

[quote] There is nothing accurate about it

This show is not a documentary.This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary.This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary.This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary.This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary.This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary.This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary.This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary.This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary.This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary.This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary.This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary.This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary.This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary.This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary.This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary.This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary.This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary.This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary.This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary.This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary.This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary.This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary.This show is not a documentary. This show is not a documentary.

I'm starting to wonder if Sarah Lancashire is perhaps a bit too good for this. Some plot lines are undermining the central character.

Just because it's not a documentary, it can still be accurate and not a total fabrication. Julia's real story was interesting enough without adding all these uninteresting fictional elements. Why even call it Julia, then? It could have been a series about any old generic female chef who had a TV show instead of such a well known, historic person.

And calm down.

After seeing this series people are going to believe that Julia was a lesbian, hung out in gay bars with drag queens and owed her success to a black female producer. That's it, Julia has lost her own true story to Alice.

I love this show! It's one of my favorite things these days.

And that will just ruin those people's lives, won't it, r467?

[quote]I don’t think Russ will be in Season 2, he’ll probably be off shooting his documentary even if it’s done in Boston.

Russ will become trans in Season 2, and will teach Julia a valuable lesson about her cis white privilege.

The Crown is another series that is dishonest and fake. They should have disclaimers so people are not fooled.

[quote]I think the show in the second season could play well off of all the cultural changes of the late 1960s, and how Julia and Paul become more enlightened and liberal. Obviously, it's already doing some of that but if S2 skipped a few years there'd be lots to explore in 1969 (lol!).

Julia and Paul visit Stonewall on that fateful night, where they are befriended by Marsha P. Johnson and Sylvia Rivera, and become eyewitnesses to history as Marsha and Sylvia singlehandedly start the Stonewall Riots and kick off the LGBTQ+ Rights Movement.

r464 it's not a documentary, but is sure is a clusterfuck of inaccuracy.

At least on The Crown an ethnic minority hasn’t been shoehorned into the narrative.

You'll all be glad to know Alice will be spun off into her own series!

See, she's on her way to LA but her car gets stuck at a diner in Arizona....

THERE'S A NEW BLACK GIRL IN TOWN, AND SHE'S....FEELIN' GOOD! GOT A SMILE, GOT A SONG, FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD!

Ba ba bum boppity bum baaa......

"go ask Alice....I think she'll know...."

I didn't know hot, furry Fran Kranz was also a director! He wrote and directed Mass. Which had some attention in awards season. Good for him.

I REALLY want Fran Kranz on my face.

I wan to slap him, and then make out

Wrong R475, the new spinoff will be called Alice In Chains, produced by M. Night Peele

[quote] I don't see it getting a season 2.

It airs on HBO, not Netflix.

No mention of Ken, the dapper host of the cooking show in San Francisco?

Or the cutie who played Vaughn Meader?

SUCK IT, BITCHES!

We've been renewed for a second season!

It’s getting another season.

YAY! 🍷 🕺🏾

In season 2 the series will center on Alice and Julia being in a lesbian relationship and focus on the two families - black and white. lots more black actors and black storylines.

.....

In Season 2 look for Alice, after being fired at WGBH, go all Angela Davis on Julia’s ass and a bomb goes off during the taping of the Decadent Chocolate Bombe episode. Avis ends up having a leg blown off but Julia emerges unscathed.

You racists are a bit too much.

FF you all.

And you think the south has problems.

Half of you have no clue about what "inspired by" means.

Dumbfucks, too.

r491 the adults are talking. Go play with your toys.

Like I give a fuck about you opinion. Fuck you, cunt.

R464, we are fine with it not being a documentary. We are fine with it playing fast and loose with the reality of the characters. We are fine with it fictionalizing the events of Julia Childs life. We are fine with it misrepresenting the culture of the early 60s.

It is only when it pretends a black person could get a good job in 1960 that we object. Because we all know they all were still sharecroppers at that date.

r494 Alice isn't the only complaint people have, but nice try.

Although Alice is the most egregious example of total fiction.

r494 thinks Alice is a real character.

R494 knows that no one working at the station is a real character.

But wishes they had been honest and made up names for the characters like they did for Alice, instead of misrepresenting real people.

A little dramatic license, r497

When does HBO start a new season? In the fall?

People develop docudramas because there's something compelling about the real story and the real characters. They compress events and time for dramatic effect, and that's okay. That's not the same as imagining events that might have happened and pretending someone had traits they didn't have because it makes a good story.

My guesses for season 2 episode titles:

Cassoulet

Quiche

Fromage

Salad Nicoise

Creme Brulee

Bouillabaise

Escargots

Beignets

R499 I imagine they'd likely have it for late spring/midyear next year. Possibly filmed this fall, COVID permitting.

Thanks R502.

R499, I doubt we’ll see Season 2 before next spring. Sarah Lancashire is still shooting the final season of Happy Valley in the UK.

I can't wait for another Happy Valley! Amazing show. Siobhan Finneran is also coming back for it.

......

[quote] Siobhan Finneran is also coming back for it.

I adore her

,,,,,,,,

But is James Norton coming back for it?

I adore him. WHET his career??

he's gonna have to figure it out

James Norton *drool*

.....

The season was very entertaining with lovely performances from everyone. I stopped analyzing and questioning historic accuracy after episode three and just accepted it as pure entertainment.

I wore earrings and a caftan and felt better about myself

I care that Sara and Bebe come back. The rest I don't care about. I never thought I'd feel that way about DHP.

The season finale was sweet. Yes, Judith Light hammed it up but her big revelation scene was quite moving.

It seemed fairly clear that Fran Kranz won’t be back for Season 2.

Oh no! Does that mean Alice Naman will take over as head producer??

DL heads will explode.

R518, I haven't seen the finale yet, but I'm guessing that Alice must decide if she wants to be the wife of a successful man, or if she wants to blaze her own path and choose a career and become a liberated woman and become the inspiration for the Mary Tyler Moore show.

AWWW, I'M SAD IT'S OVER.

The showrunners lie through their teeth about the issue of racism being explored via Alice in Season 1:

I FF through the Alice scenes.

I'll bet the Alice troll has some black folks in his bloodline.

I'd rather watch Julia Child in a show about Julia Child r523. Paul's cold storyline was also tedious. As others have said, David Hyde Pierce is just doing Niles. Bebe Neuwirth, however, is excellent as always. She is so eminently watchable on screen, she just has that X factor.

Uhhh, R522, there isn’t simply an “Alice troll” here. More than a few of us who post here think the character is a shameless anachronism whose race has hardly ever been addressed throughout Season 1. And it’s extremely deceitful of the creator/showrunners to avoid that.

R525: is that what you're calling sock puppets these days?

r526 your tinfoil hat needs adjusting. Just because people have a different opinion than you do doesn't make it a conspiracy.

R526: You're the one raising conspiracies, Face it, you're a sad white guy who'll still be a sad white guy now that the series is over. And other sad white guys probably also think you're pathetic.

r528 you obviously have no critical thinking skills and happily eat up any shit that gets shoveled your way. Those of us who are interested in quality and accuracy are more discerning. It has nothing to do with race. If Alice were a white woman, we'd still be calling the show out for inserting a totally fictional character and giving her a prominent role when it's all total bullshit in regards to the actual story.

The finale was 1/3rd Julia and 2/3rds Alice. Was the soup eating scene with Alice and her mother really necessary? And Alice pouting because she felt Julia didn't think of her as family. Who cares that Alice got the sads. I really wish we would have gotten some Avis homelife instead. She was real and much more interesting.

ONE CAN TRY TOO HARD.

Hopefully next season the showrunners will remember that this is a show about Julia Child and that's why people are watching, and what people want to see.

LIKE A RACIST TROLL WHO HAS NO IDEA WHAT "INSPIRED BY" MEANS!

r533 you might want to try the medicated douche

Another aimless episode. Pity it was the finale.

I agree, R530. I love Bebe Neuwirth’s Avis. Why was Alice so cold to Paul when he was taking her photo during Julia’s “final” episode? And her mother is creepy as hell.

BEST THING ABOUT THE SERIES：

Getting to see Fran’s chest hairs while preparing eggs Benedict at home

I've loved every episode but the finale was disappointing. It was really pointless to end the show only to come back. It wasn't well handled and didn't feel earned.

It might be because I've been influenced by this thread, but the finale did feel too Alice-heavy.

That soufflé looked yummy. I did find Alice’s coldness towards Paul and, later Julia, very odd and out of character. But I don’t care about Alice or her mother or her love life. Bebe brings so much to the show and she has really been the bright spot for me.

I agree, I can almost forgive the rest for seeing Bebe Newwirth and delightfully bitchy Isabella Rossellini

I said it first way up thread, but the really remarkable thing about Bebe's performance is she's been given next to nothing to work with to create the character of Avis.

6 episodes and we still know next to nothing about her except that she's a widow with time on her hands. I don't think we even know how she met Julia......if they're old friends or new acquaintances since the Childs' move to Cambridge, if she's very wealthy, etc.

And yet. we're all invested in Avis!

[quote]she's been given next to nothing to work with to create the character of Avis.

right ? her last line, "i'm only getting started" is convincing but likewise ironic

she did explain how they met.

but it was to the black girl, so you probably didn't watch.

I'm sorry, I don't see any spectacular about Bebe's performance. She's Lilith in a kitchen instead of a bar.

then you're a cunt

How did Avis and Julia meet? I don't remember any mention of it.

they were pen-pals for a long time

Another bit of fiction, the real Russ didn't make documentaries. Instead he went on to produce This Old House and The Victory Garden. But, I guess Alice will be shown as the one who created those shows in season 2.

The New Yankee Workshop was filmed in his backyard. And he and Julia worked together on other cooking shows for over 30 years.

he's a cutie

The only reason I know that Julia and Avis first became pen pal friends for years before they met because Avis's husband wrote a piece in a magazine about hating stainless steel knives that Julia agreed with and when Julia wrote him a fan letter, Avis answered it and from their the two women became friends is from seeing Julie and Julia. I will never say anything bad about that film again because compared to this HBO Julia series the movie was gospel about Julia. It didn't have any fake characters at least and was based on the real letters Julia wrote to Avis and Paul wrote to his brother. Also how come they have never mentioned Julia's sister Dorothy in this Julia series. It seems Julia was close to her sister.

Will season 2 be called Alice with a guest appearance by Julia.

Out of curiosity, I watched Julie and Julia.

What a difference. Meryl Streep was wonderful, and Stanley Tucci's Paul is a charming, witty and masculine gentleman. I could never see his version of Paul lying in bed whining like man baby with the flu.

I believe Dorothy is the one who called Julia to tell her their father had passed. But I think that’s the only time she was mentioned. Jane Lynch was a hoot as Dorothy in J&J. I love the movie btw. Meryl and Tucci have great chemistry and they made you think Julia and Paul fucked nightly.

Uh huh. This is a “fable,” alright. And describing Alice as a “composite character” doesn’t cut it. Mentioning a black woman “who worked with Julia on the 60s” and Madeline Anderson, a “well known documentarian who worked in public television” doesn’t cut it. The creator and showrunners took a big fat lie and ran with it.

I actually liked the last episode. Not a fan of Meryl's Julia and laughed at the shrunken sets to make her look taller. She was practically using an easy bake oven. Stanley was great as always.

This series was approved and worked on with people from Julia's foundation.

Thanks, r552, but did you glean that info about Avis and her husband and the knives from the film Julie and Julia? Is Avis a character in it? You're all making me want to watch the film again.

Avis is a minor character who doesn’t appear until the last quarter of the film. Deborah Rush plays her and does a very nice job. In J&J Julia’s story ends before her tv career.

I think the problem is that Julia's life didn't have enough conflict so they had to pump some in, Sarah Lancashire saved their ass because she, Bebe Neuwirths and the revolving cast of recipes hold this thing together. Alice is a sweet character but I find myself saying "this never happened" when I watch her. Also, show me the Black lawyer who was invited to join a silk shoe firm in the early 60s and passed it up. If someone did, it would have been to work in the Civil Rights movement.

Yes, R557. It was made clear in the film and yes the Avis character does appear a little past the half way point in the film but she is made good use of and in the time she was in the film I got a much better idea about the friendship. Actually I got a much better idea about everything Julia from the film. Her time in France was much more interesting than her making the TV show. The film also gave a much better picture of Julia's relationship with her father and movie Julia and Paul were so much hotter than their HBO counterparts.

The movie is worth seeing or rewatching . Yes Streep's Julia voice is a little over the top but bearable . I like the Julie parts but after seeing the film a couple of times I know ff'd the Julie parts and mostly watch the Julia parts which I find great even after seeing them several times. If you want to learn more about Julia and not learn about a character who never existed in real life I'd say take another look at the movie.

I wish someone would make a true to life, in great detail movie about Julia from when she met Paul till her death. I mean it would probably run for 3 hours but I think it would be really interesting if they get the right people to play the real life characters.

Oh, lol, be warned, the movie might leave you very hungry as they really make the food look great, in both the Julia and Julie scenes. After the first time I saw the movie I had to make French onion soup from scratch. I just couldn't go another day without having it. I still make it from time to time. It's actually a fairly healthy soup if you don't go to heavy on the cheese and not too difficult to make. Just don't think of making our own beef stock. That would be a pain in the ass. I use Kitchen Basic beef stock which is very good and comes in regular, no salt added and organic. The hardest part is slicing all those onions. I mean I use 6 large onions and they saute down to nothing, but such delicious nothing.

Thanks for all that, r560!

It isn't really dealt with in the show, but Avis's husband Bernard was a very famous writer, critic, teacher etc. Won the Pulitzer. He died in 1955, which might explain her feeling lost in her life, especially if she was consistently overshadowed by his fame (he was also a victim of the Red Scare). There's an entire book devoted to letters between Avis and Julia: Love, Julia. Worth pursuing if you're interested in historical fact.

I was pretty meh on season 1 overall, but I have to admit Paul urging Julia to “let’s say yes to everything for as long as we can” at the end of the season finale did make me tear up.

However Avis saying “I’m just getting started” made zero sense.

It will be a surprise to Paul when Julia says "Oui!" to Isaac and his enormous BBC.

A sort of off-topic reminder, but you can watch the real Julia anytime for free on PlutoTV.

What is a silk-shoe firm, R599? I've heard of white-shoe firms, but I never understood that term, either.

I meant R559.

[quote]White shoes are tacky, no?

Especially after Labor Day.

I meant white shoe, sorry.

[quote] I know Sarah Lancashire from HAPPY VALLEY and LAST TANGO IN HALIFAX, and now this.

She needs to do a Broadway musical. I saw her in the West End production of Betty Blue Eyes.

Does she have a Mame in her?

Maybe not a Mame in her, I can recommend a Vera who'd get there.

Cutie YouTube food blogger is doing a series he's calling Jamie and Julia. He's cooking his way through "Mastering the Art of French Cooking."

He's adorable, and hilariously adorkable.

R571, I definitely think she has a Mame in her. She can sing, she has the requisite warmth along with the comic ability. And she’d nail that second act shit with Patrick and the Upsons.

[quote] He's cooking his way through "Mastering the Art of French Cooking."

Oh, that’s never been done before.

Yea but he's a lot cuter.

I think we can officially call Sarah Lancashire a DL fave now.

The last episode sort of drew everything to a close, wrapped it up nice and neat. I’m sure they didn’t know the show would be picked up for another season.

Of course, American tv can’t leave anything well enough alone and will run this show into the ground.

[quote]How do you all feel about Sarah’s interpretation of the Julia “voice”?

I hear more Hyacinth Bucket than Julia. And Bebe steals every frame.

agree, more bibi, streep did the voice better

Bebe is always wonderful.

Not always.

Why did they cast an Asian to play John Updike?

Because it's 2022. Who gives a fuck if we aren't historically correct. As long as we are inclusive, that's all that matters.

Bryce Pinkham is not Asian.

r585, I'd love to see his pink ham.

Look for Gillian Anderson as British TV cooking star Fanny Craddock in Season 2. It will be revealed that she had been gang raped and impregnated and the child she gave up for adoption was Alice.

[quote] Bryce Pinkham is not Asian.

Then why does he look Asian?

R587 - that is genius casting; I'd love to see Anderson take on such a tricksy character.

Thanks, R589, the more I think about it the better it sounds. She does sort of look like her. Maybe I’ll bring it up to Daniel Goldfarb who will be with Sarah Lancashire and several other actors at a SAG-AFTRA screening next week.

Timothy Busfield *is* Graham Kerr, The Galloping Gourmet. Julia will get him off booze and on Jesus.

Judy Parfitt as Craddock!

I’d give Fran Kranz a blowjob.

[quote] I’d give Fran Kranz a blowjob.

I’d give up lusting after Sexy Joel on Maisel if Fran Kranz would look my way.

Nah, R594, Joel all the way.

No, Luke Kirby!

Ok, they need to fill in some of the writing gaps.

I didn’t realize in the NYC episode that the man who sits down next to her is Mr. Rogers. They could have clued us in a bit more.

R597, I am sorry that you are clueless.

"Hi, I'm Fred Rogers, Right now, I'm in divinity school and my children's show won't debut for seven more years but the magic of Daniel Goldfarb's imagination has placed both me and Betty Friedan in an improbable situation. Why would Betty be at a public TV awards dinner when she had nothing to do with television and the Corporation for Public Broadcasting wasn't founded until 1969?"

Betty as the author of Feminine Mystique could easily have been a guest on public television, just as John Updike had been.