Is Hollywood over?

Yes, I really think it is. The old Hollywood glamour is dead. Mediocre talent at best, getto award shows, slutty women, slovenly men, and SM had ruined the magic and mystique. The narcissist and entitled actors are just infuriating now.

R1- That should be narcissistic.

After Harvey Weinstein, the truth fully came out that Hollywood is filled with not-nice people. I think it finally dawned on people that there is no point in idolizing this industry.

Honestly, I think people in the industry bubble are the only ones who care about it.

Yes. A site used to talk about everything Hollywood is certainly the place to discuss how Hollywood is over.

I think the movie industry is toast. Television couldn’t kill it, but streaming has. Only action movies are a draw in theaters now.

The movie actors aren’t beautiful anymore, either. The trailer park aesthetic is king, with bug-eyed insect actresses and pan-headed actors who look like they eschew soap products.

OP- It's not over because of all the celebrity RIFF RAFF it's because a lot of people for years now can stay at home and watch movies and tv shows from a zillion different streaming choices and then throw in the Covid shutdown of movie theatres- people still aren't returning.

There’s too much going on in the real word. Nobody has time to talk about movie stars and their lives.

Social media has precipitated the downfall. How can we pretend so-and-so is so glamorous and elegant when they’re photographed buying groceries?? Or we read about them being rude to someone?

We used to love the award shows: everybody dressed up and looking fantastic. Everybody acting nice and polite. Now award shows are trash, as experienced this past Sunday. We don’t want to see thuggish, asshole behavior. We tuned in to see nice things and the experience was ruined by some entitled shithead, bringing real life into an award show, which some see as escapist fun.

OP is right, any asshole with a phone is now “famous” the line is blurred between actual talent and trashy wannabe’s. Looking at the kardashian trash.

R6- Well said. I remember how much I use to enjoy celebrity gossip. I spent so much time and money buying up magazines, autobiographies, etc about celebrities, musicians, movies, music. Now there isn't any one of them I care about.

Young people's obsession with reality stars and social media changed everything. There was a time Paris Hilton and Kim Kardashian types couldn't purchase or steal a ticket to the Vanity Fair, Spago or Chasens after parties. They were hugely exclusive. Now they are the only ones that show up because real movie stars don't care to be around those types. Only the younger stars go now. I remember reading I think it was Sigourney Weaver quoted about what they were like and saying that when a Madonna or Julia Roberts would enter the room the word quickly made its way around the room. Nobody now would give two shits to learn the Real Housewives just showed up.

[quote]I think the movie industry is toast. Television couldn’t kill it, but streaming has. Only action movies are a draw in theaters now.

Very true. The interesting entertainment being made is more likely produced and edited from an industrial park in Madrid (Netflix, for example) and whatever film locations are needed, or hotels and meeting places it takes to firm deals between the principals.

Just as COVID pulled back the curtain from the idea that asses must be in office cubicles to conduct work, a parallel dispersal of the entertainment industry has revealed that Hollywood is history; that small independent films happen where they happen; that big budget series and films can be pieced together from many teams in many places without ever having to involve meetings at the Beverley Hills Hotel or readings at a major film studio.

The entertainment industry will retain an important but decreasing anchor in Hollywood but other cities around the world and many off-site facilities in farther flung places will emerge in a bigger, more complicated map, like a factory that sources raw materials from one group of places, assembles them others, does complicated finish work in another set of places, and markets from yet another.

The once bug studio names will be attached only to the annual output of all but guaranteed blockbuster Marvel and DC Comics fare, or Vin Diesel films that make billions internationally.

For all that, entertainment won't suffer, only the pride of what's left of the old Hollywood studios and A-list stars models.

That amazing Faye Dunnaway pic of her poolside with her Oscar at the Sunset Marquis and the trades strewn around her, suggesting the hard work she did to get where she was that morning, all the possibilities of the years ahead for her, and the decadence and glamour of it all feels completely irrelevant now. That doesn't exist anymore.

I remember being a kid, and watching the 1983 Oscars on TV. 53 million people in the US watched that night. This past Sunday, 16 million bothered to tune in, and that was up from last year.

I think many of us here at DL as kids, Hollywood was our escape from being called "faggot" every day at school. As a little kid, I was enthralled by Judy singing about the Rainbow in the Wizard of Oz, and as I grew older, I wanted to know about how that movie was made. I remember being 11 years old and being so enthralled by Gone with the Wind on one of its network TV airings in the early '80. Who WAS this beautiful lady playing Scarlett, and WHERE did they find her? I loved GWTW so much I remember walking into school on air the day after part 1, SO looking forward to part 2. It was all I could talk about all day.

I was even fascinated by Hollywood from the I Love Lucy Hollywood episodes. Was there REALLY a place where you could interact with movie stars on a daily basis? I wanted to have that view from Lucy's LA apartment! (I eventually did have a version of it )

It's now an idea whose time has come, and passed.

Goodnight, Mrs. Calabash... wherever you are.

When I was a child I caught a fleeting glimpse Out of the corner of my eye I turned to look but it was gone I cannot put my finger on it now The child is grown The dream is gone.

This song holds no meaning to the culture at large. But it still has personal meaning to me.

I suspect before I shuffle off this mortal coil, the Walk of Fame will be gone. As will the footprints, and Grauman's Chinese Theater. I never thought they'd dare tear that down, but it's actually in the works. And, CBS Television City is going away. Sucks.

Hollywood is still needed for the films that stream.

No. Everybody still wants to get in, desperately. Only those who fail to get in, ie losers, are saying Hollywood is over.

R16 I'm in. And I'm saying it's over.

[quote]...getto award shows, slutty women, slovenly men, and SM...

One supposes you meant "ghetto".

Your point is true. Call the trashy pick-up: corporate marketing. Dignity, quality, and charm are on the way out.

As an insider r17 who do you think will make the movies for streaming if Hollywood is over?

Exactly! It's ghetto, trashy and full of no talent hacks. People lost interest. Even worse, all the political posturing.

There's no more interesting directors who are challenging the status quo and no more serious actors. As for the glamour and mystique, that was always manufactured. Actors have always been trashy but we're made to dress well and behave in public in previous times. Hollywood has been over for decades way before this Oscar stunt. DL is just out of touch and suffering amnesia.

Hollywood and it's stars were once the escape people burdened with The Depression and World Wars used to turn to. More and more Hollywood has become part of the problem we need to escape from. Not the best business plan

I used to go to the movies about 3 times a week, for a couple of decades. I haven't been in a movie theater since 2006 ("Capote"), and I can't see setting foot in one ever again, unless cell phones somehow magically vanish from the planet. The pictures got small, like Gloria said.

Enough already with the Oscar slap! It's not like Will Smith shot somebody.

^ Don't you have another baby to make?

I think for many people it's been over for several years. Just look at many of the offerings we see coming out of Hollywood now. They seem to have run out of ideas. All this CGI crap is taking over. If they keep it up they won't need real actors anymore eventually.

Hollywood is certainly over for me. The magic it held for me when I was growing up has completely vanished. Whether that's because of Hollywood itself or simply because I matured is up for debate. But I'm definitely over it.

Marvel movies put the final nail in the movie coffin for me.

The movie industry isn't toast but the pull of Hollywood stardom sure is. No one under 30 gives a fuck about Hollywood stars or directors. Celebrities to those people come from the internet, tik tok, YouTube, whatever. There are no real directors that are considered genius that people flock to see (look at what happened with West side Story) save for a few very rare exceptions.

I agree that the Weinstein shit exposed Hollywood for it's real nastiness (not just Harvey but the ton of people who knew or had heard that had said nothing then acted all outraged) and it has never really recovered from it.

This last incident with Will just dug the nail in deeper afaic.

Total lack of originality did it for me. Everything is either a Superhero movie, a biopic or a remake. Why would anyone spend money to see any of that?

Same goes for music, God it sucks

One of the things that always shocks me about this place is to learn just how fragile some of you are. Hollywood is not over. What Will Smith did was ridiculous and beneath him, his family, his peers and the evening and there should be consequences. While it is fun to gossip about it and speculate on the various angles, this is hardly the end of Hollywood or entertainment. Read some books about classic Hollywood, an open-handed slap is tame (a mere love tap) compared to some of the stuff that has gone down in that industry. Let's get some perspective here, people.

R31- Yes. Let's do. HW had been over for many of us long before this disgusting incident. Lack of talent and nepotism played a bigger part in this than it gets credit for. We have been subjected to having the unattractive, spoiled, entitled, talentless spawn of celebrities shoved down our throats in every HW venue that exists. It has been quite revolting and infuriating. So many of us just said fuck it and fuck them.

^ I feel like I was just slapped in the face 😳

Security!

R31 I agree with you that it's ridiculous to say people are going to stop making films, as if there haven't been 1 or 2 huge blockbusters in a pandemic this year. The quality of the movies is very very debatable especially compared to other eras but people still flock.

What is dying is the power the Hollywood system had, with it's star directors and actors. The power of The Name just isn't there anymore. People don't worship Hollywood celebrity like they used to.

R33- Lol! It certainly wasn't my intention to direct my anger at you. The point I am trying to make is that HW , imo, shot themselves in the foot with this. There were actually talented actors who had worked to get acting roles, and certainly deserved them, only to watch those parts get handed to some insipid celebrity spawn with no talent and an entitled attitude who has had everything in life handed to them. You can not force people to like and spend money on anything they are in. ( Which seems to be everything)

I'm guess in a way I'm very hetero ( even though I'm 100% GAY) because I ALWAYS thought the Oscars show was BORING.

R36- They actually were to me too. It was the gowns, the stars dripping in jewels, that attracted me.

It's the collapse of control. First the studio system collapsed, a hundred years ago. Then PR figured out the mea culpa (I'm going to rehab for my sins) but that's getting old and nobody buys it. Now social media has insane control because those in power are frightening by it. I think it's totally emperor has no clothes. The Smith scandal is a genuine scandal, for reasons that are well known to you. At some point though somebody in a fauxtrage scandal will just say Oh, fuck off and the excess will suddenly be acknowledged and a balance will be found. (Not arguing it will be a perfect balance.) Controls are collapsing and right now it is out of control.

The other thing I'd argue is it isn't the action pics are the only thing that makes money but are the only thing that makes enough money. This is the business are art and the Einsteins in the front office are driven by quarterly returns. Are there many production houses that can do both? Lucas Films? Lions Gate, Miramax... they made movies back in the day. Then they get gobbled up by the Disneys and the other conglomerates and it all gets bottom lined.

The Oscars tried to reinvent themselves but it was driven by desperation, pandering and a quick fix strategy, which usually backfires and it did. I don't watch the Oscars now because I barely know the actors, I seldom have seen the films, and it's all so off-brand now I'm indifferent. But that is true of a lot of things. The times are changing here at Downton Abbey. Change is always crazy and excessive. A new normal will be found, probably closer to the centre than is this circus, but it will take awhile.

R37- Check out the show from 1978- NON ghetto and classy still.

R36- Thank you so much, I am very much enjoying this. Miss Davis and her bling glasses! Debbie, RIP:( The yummy Gregory Peck. Distinguished men, sparkling gowns and jewelry. THAT is what we have lost now that one ugly, racist hag was allowed to Ghetto down the Oscars and nepotism watered down the talent.

I think the broader issue is that Hollywood has lost the thread. Life can really suck, and it's getting worse and worse for many of us. We want -- we need -- escapism. We want to lose ourselves in a different world, for just a little while.

We don't want to see ugly people or trashy people, and we sure as fuck don't want to get hackneyed moral lessons from Hollywood, of all places. We're already surrounded by ugly, trashy people and a million lectures and grievances from every direction.

Hollywood can churn out anything they want, but I sure as fuck won't be watching it. I no longer care or pay attention to Hollywood's products. I stream foreign films and older Hollywood movies. Films can still amaze and transport and uplift -- just not the films Hollywood makes.

IMO Hollywood ended in January of 1999, when THE SOPRANOS premiered on TV and a new golden age of television started.

There are TV shows now where the acting, writing, design and production values are as good as anything on the 'Silver Screen' -- and often better.

Streaming options and the glut of Marvel movies are just final nails in the coffin.

[R41] I feel you. In the quest for inclusivity, Hollywood's put the spotlight on some of the most average, homely looking twats I've ever seen on screen. If I wanted to see People of Walmart, I'd go to the store for that. Hollywood is glitz and glamour, not average or ugly obese actors like that chick from Euphoria. I want to escape such things.

If I wanted to see People of Walmart, I'd go to the store for that. 😂

I think what some of you are experiencing, myself included, is aging. You're aging out of what is current pop culture. You don't understand it, so you get angry at it and post clips of the 1978 Oscars (C'mon 🙄) Hollywood is still Hollywood. What has changed is the definition of celebrity. I get it, you don't want rap stars and Instagram influencers and fat people at the Oscars and the Met Gala, but maybe those things just aren't for you any longer and that's okay.

One of the reasons why the Oscars used to be such a big deal is because there were only 3 channels and it was the only time you could see stars all dressed up, unless you bought movie magazines. Now, all you have to do is click on DL and you will find links upon links to gossip sites with pictures of stars all over the place. By the time the Oscars come around, you have already seen the stars in their various looks. You've seen them on all the chat shows. You've heard them on all the Podcasts.

I don't think that someone should go shirtless to the Oscars, but I'm 50. Someone who is half my age, doesn't think it's a big deal.

R45- I respectfully disagree. I think what people are missing is the talent, glamour, and dignity that the awards once held.

R45, it's more than that. Hollywood stars used to be almost otherworldly, a level of glitz and glamour and beauty that was purely aspirational. Who, in real life, ever looked like the images we saw of Ingrid Bergman or Cary Grant? Nobody. Those images were the stuff of dreams.

Who asked for the Oscars, and movies, to show images that look like the denizens of a nightclub in Queens, trashy clothes, punch-ups, and all? The stuff of dreary, depressing ordinary life, or even nightmares -- certainly not dreams.

[quote] What Will Smith did was ridiculous and beneath him

What he did was indeed ridiculous, but clearly it was not beneath him. Had it been, he would not have done it.

Yes. Also, doctors, scientists, and firemen can be sex symbols now due to social media and their lives are more interesting at times.

[quote][R45], it's more than that. Hollywood stars used to be almost otherworldly, a level of glitz and glamour and beauty that was purely aspirational. Who, in real life, ever looked like the images we saw of Ingrid Bergman or Cary Grant? Nobody. Those images were the stuff of dreams.

But it was all a lie and fake with fake on top. You're longing for something that never really existed. It's quaint that you still believe in the myth of Hollywood, but Hollywood was/is a dirty ugly place filled with dark people doing dark things. Always has been and always will be. If you want to Violet Venable your way through life, then more power to you.

R50, we've all read Hollywood Babylon and about a hundred tell-alls. That's why I said "images" and "the stuff of dreams." We're all in on it. It is fake. Hollywood has always been fake. It's always been beautiful on the outside and dirty and corrupt on the inside. This is not a news flash to anyone here.

We like fake. We want fake. Real life is ugly, getting uglier by the minute. We want some beauty and someplace to escape to, even if only in our minds, even if only for a little while.

I think we're being taught now that even aspiring to beauty or transcendence is verboten. Some people are in the gutter, so how dare we look at the stars. We are to know our place, accept our place in the ugly world, and sit down and take our medicine.

R50- No one cared that it was a lie. It was mutually beneficial. We could escape in their movie roles and glamour, that was the point. But I will say a good many of them were decent, patriotic people. Now I have to know every vapid thought in their heads, daily. Every time they go to the toilet. Their whinging and faux virtual signaling. Bisexual today, trans tomorrow. I don't gaf! Idk. It's like a beautiful swan, swimming gracefully in the water, then suddenly the swan lifts it's webbed feet out the water screaming ' look at me! I have webbed feet! ' It ruins the whole facade.

[quote] I think what some of you are experiencing, myself included, is aging. You're aging out of what is current pop culture. You don't understand it, so you get angry at it and post clips of the 1978 Oscars (C'mon 🙄) Hollywood is still Hollywood. What has changed is the definition of celebrity. I get it, you don't want rap stars and Instagram influencers and fat people at the Oscars and the Met Gala, but maybe those things just aren't for you any longer and that's okay. One of the reasons why the Oscars used to be such a big deal is because there were only 3 channels and it was the only time you could see stars all dressed up, unless you bought movie magazines. Now, all you have to do is click on DL and you will find links upon links to gossip sites with pictures of stars all over the place. By the time the Oscars come around, you have already seen the stars in their various looks. You've seen them on all the chat shows. You've heard them on all the Podcasts. I don't think that someone should go shirtless to the Oscars, but I'm 50. Someone who is half my age, doesn't think it's a big deal.

These delusional freaks aged out of pop culture decades ago. Yet they behave like children who just found out there's no Santa Claus. Its like those people who sit around longing for the old south. Hollywood is business. The business sells fairytales. However, it itself is not a fairytale.

Like every other thread. The real issue here for these get of my lawn grandpas is change. They have the same complaints that their parents and grandparents had.

r45 r53 I suppose the both o' yous liked the rap overlay on the Godfather "tribute."

People like r45 and r53 are happy with mediocrity. Its sad. The rest of us get it.

R53, I'm not sure your analogy holds. The stereotypical complaining grandpa will bitch about "these kids today" and whine about how the young folks have no taste.

But young people are not taking over the Oscars. Young people DGAF about the Oscars. They're just not interested and they barely even noticed the Smith debacle.

Will Smith is 53. Chris Rock is 57. These men are old enough to be grandfathers themselves. Nobody under 25 knows, or cares, who they are.

It's not the old farts vs. the youngbloods here. It's old farts all the way down.

R56- It is the lose of decorum that is so depressing. This is in most things now.

[QUOTE] I've never been to the Oscars

Have you ever been to you?

[quote]People like [R45] and [R53] are happy with mediocrity. Its sad. The rest of us get it.

I'm R45 and don't assume that I'm happy with mediocrity. I just understand that I'm a 50 year old man who is aging or who has aged out of some of this stuff. And I'm not calling anyone a Trumper, but you remind me of the "Let's Make America Great Again" crowd. You want to go back to some time, that never really existed. And as R57 said, the loss of decorum is not great, but it's across the board and the world we live in now. Longing for the days of old, serves no purpose and is not healthy.

R56- Not in my family. When my mother turned 53 I was 13 years old. When I was born my grandmother was in her 70's.

R59- What is happening in this country, hell this world isn't healthy. Unforgivable income inequality, global warming, impossibly expensive rents, upcoming food shortages, and corruption in every single office of government. Violence, mental illness. Maybe some people long to go back in time when we weren't living in terrifying, apocalyptic times.

[quote] I'm not sure your analogy holds. The stereotypical complaining grandpa will bitch about "these kids today" and whine about how the young folks have no taste. But young people are not taking over the Oscars. Young people DGAF about the Oscars. They're just not interested and they barely even noticed the Smith debacle. Will Smith is 53. Chris Rock is 57. These men are old enough to be grandfathers themselves. Nobody under 25 knows, or cares, who they are. It's not the old farts vs. the youngbloods here. It's old farts all the way down.

They are elderly people complaining about any sort of change. Just as their parents and grandparents did. Get of my lawn grandpas have an aversion to change. Everything in the past was better. Which is certainly not true. We forget the bad and fixate of this romanticized version of the past. The best thing about the past is that we were all younger.

[quote] [R59]- What is happening in this country, hell this world isn't healthy. Unforgivable income inequality, global warming, impossibly expensive rents, upcoming food shortages, and corruption in every single office of government. Violence, mental illness. Maybe some people long to go back in time when we weren't living in terrifying, apocalyptic times.

Have you ever picked up a history book and read it?

R61, It's always been terrifying, there was always some threat. Everything you listed has always been a thing, whether we knew about it or not. The difference is you were younger back then and there wasn't the 24/7 news cycle.

R45 it has nothing to do with aging considering Gen Z-ers could give 3 shits about Hollywood too. Perhaps for different reasons, but the reason still stands.

I think Hollywood is far from dead but to even entertain the idea that the quality of films coming from it is the same as it was 30/40 years ago is mind numbingly ignorant

[quote]The best thing about the past is that we were all younger.

Oh, right. It couldn't be just that culture was in some ways better then, it's just that we were younger.

In some cases, much younger. I was in my negative 20s and 30s when many of my favorite films were made, in the 1930s and 40s. I also enjoy the music from my negative 20s and 30s.

I was in my negative 300s and 400s when some of my favorite classical composers were working, so I was definitely much younger.

I was recently reading The Meditations of Marcus Aurelius. That's a favorite from my really early youth, when I was MUCH younger, about negative 1900 years old.

Ah, youth! Certainly you're right that I only like this earlier culture because it's from my youth.

[quote] Ah, youth! Certainly you're right that I only like this earlier culture because it's from my youth.

Your parents and grandparents felt the same way that you feel now.

R67, what a pleasure to meet someone who knew my parents and grandparents! Just to confirm we're talking about the same people, what were their names?

The idea that the current crop of trash is the same as (at least certain elements of) the old crowd (you're reading a comment being typed by a guy who can remember being at Twelve Chimneys as a guest of the Lunts and Coward) is absolutely, totally, pure fantasy.

Sure, they got up to, um, assorted things, but they are the same as the Kardashians? Ha, you are completely deluded.

[quote]It couldn't be just that culture was in some ways better then

For you, perhaps... but for a lot of people it wasn't. I'm sure you can respect that, posting here on a gay message board.

[quote][R37]- Check out the show from 1978- NON ghetto and classy still.

Diane Keaton said about '78, that it was so low key. She drove herself to the awards in her VW bug and parked in the car park. And then of course there was her hair and outfit.

@r45, " I get it, you don't want rap stars and Instagram influencers and fat people at the Oscars and the Met Gala, but maybe those things just aren't for you any longer and that's okay. "

No, what I don't want is a Jerry Springer hillbilly-ghetto free for all, but that's what I got and I'm out

[quote]Sure, they got up to, um, assorted things, but they are the same as the Kardashians?

Any many ways it was worse than the Kardashians.

R73 - But were they tirelessly flapping around in public about it to the point where that was all there was about them?

They only reason they weren't R74 was because neither the internet nor social media was around.

R75 - You don't know what you are talking about. That was not them at all. I lived near them- I was just a kid (and they did not like having kids at their house!!!) and my parents knew them because of several mutual friends. They were exceedingly private people. The idea that they would be public about almost anything (other than their work) is just stupid.

Okay, R76. If that is what you need to believe. Then you cling to that.

R77 - So how well did YOU know them???

Whoopi Goldberg had a meltdown on The View this morning over the accusation that a lot of hollywood actors are out of touch with the average person. She went on a huge rant about "how we're just trying to put food on our table for our families" and how she found the elitist tag to be completely offensive.

People really don't get it. Your average person can face workplace harassment and discrimination far worse on a daily basis, and they don't have the luxury of slapping their offenders and walking away without any consequences. Yet we're supposed to feel sorry for a multimillionaire who couldn't take a rather lame joke at his wife's expense? Give me a break.

[quote]Whoopi Goldberg had a meltdown on The View this morning

She's PART of the problem.

In the past Hollywood was seen as one of the very few means to raise your social standing from nobody to big movie (or TV) star.

Thanks to Reality TV and social media, there are several other options to become rich and famous, or infamous. Kim Kardashian got famous for letting a rap star pee on her. Now she and her family have several fashion and make-up lines and are pretty much Reality TV show royalty. A new kind of A-list for Reality TV trash and gossip magazine media and entertainment.

Younger generations got disillusioned with the old, and now, outdated notion of starting at the bottom and working your way to the top through hard and honest work. We now know how sinister and depraved you have to be in order to play the sick games of those who control whoever is allowed to get even close to the top. Now with social media you can be your own boss, your own brand. You can make a lot of money and reach an audience and consumer market through the World Wide Web. No need to get exploited by others, you can be in charge of what you are comfortable with to do in order to make money and raise your social profile.

R62- Please do enlighten us about past global warmings. 🙄 Since it must be clarified for you, I am speaking of recent times.

R23 Capote was really the last movie that really captured my imagination, yeah.

[quote] [R62]- Please do enlighten us about past global warmings. 🙄 Since it must be clarified for you, I am speaking of recent times.

[quote] [[R59]]- What is happening in this country, hell this world isn't healthy. Unforgivable income inequality, global warming, impossibly expensive rents, upcoming food shortages, and corruption in every single office of government. Violence, mental illness. Maybe some people long to go back in time when we weren't living in terrifying, apocalyptic times.

Let me "clarify" this for you: You're speaking about age old problems that continue to persist in more recent times. Global warming which is a now a decades old problem and the rest are age old problems. You want to go back to a fantasy that never existed.

Are we bitching about the quality of film product now vs. then? Or are we bitching about celebrity behavior and decorum?

Because if it's quality, I would say Hollywood has always put out a bunch of crap product. I worked in a movie theater during most of my high school and college years in the early to mid-80s. Trust me. For every "Sophie's Choice" or "On Golden Pond" or "Tootsie" we showed, there were way more movies like "Zapped!", "The Pirate Movie" and "First Blood".

Except R85, for every shitty crap movie there were 3 quality ones....now its the exact opposite...if we're that lucky. That idiotic argument about how there has always been shitty stuff fails to take ratio of shitty vs good in to account.

Wrong, R86. There were always more crap movies than there were "quality" ones. I know. I worked them for about 8 years. It really wasn't that different from now.

This was a great thread until it had to slide into snide grandpa name calling and back and forth. Almost every post was well put. Whoever started it, I hope it made you feel better, otherwise it accomplished absolutely nothing.

R84- Let me clarify this for YOU! This country has NEVER been in such a dangerous time, the very real danger of losing our democracy. I do not gaf what happened before, I have to deal with what is happening NOW. Got it? Good.

R84- Also, you are just full shit about global warming. The polar ice caps are melting. The core temperature of the earth rasing. Previous times did not have nuclear waste buried in every corner of the world, nor did fracking exist.

Rising. @R90

No, the thread was great while a bunch of you were fellating each other over how wonderful a world that never existed used to be.

Hollywood is a money-making business. There have always been more bad movies than good movies. Because the bad ones are cheap to produce and make money, so they can spend more to make the good ones even better.

People going around calling the Oscars ghetto and trashy don't seem to understand that ABC isn't in the business to put on a cotillion. They want desirable eyeballs watching the telecast so they can make money from ads. And those desirable eyeballs (young, urban white people) don't want to see the people or the fashions that you want to see.

And I'm shocked by the number of coma patients we have posting here who apparently think bad shit only starting happening in recent times.

I would respect this thread a whole lot more if you were honest about what you were lamenting or had a modicum of self awareness about what you're really missing.

R92- You are an ignorant, condescending little bitch. No one stated that things have never been bad before. But I can guarantee you that this planet has never been so damaged from us humans. Pollution, overpopulation, fracking, oil and nuclear waste leaking in our oceans. If you honesty do not realize that you are the one not living in reality, not us.

Hollywood has ALWAYS been a magnet for egoistic jerks and power hungry creeps. They just didn’t have social media back then. Even some of the so called tabloids back then we’re on the payroll of the big movie studios. Now a celebrity makes a mistake, it will be put on blast in nanoseconds.

R86.....perhaps there have always been more crap movies than great ones but if you really do not think there were much more great movies vs bad ones previously, you are delussional.

Just to prove a point, I check the 20 highest grossing domestic films on 2021 and compared them to the 20 highest rated on metacritic. Do you know how many were in both categories? Take a guess.

0. Zilch.

Whereas looking for the same thing but for 1991, there was 6. Not a monumental number, could be better, but just imagining a world where 6 of the top 20 grossest films received critical acclaim at this point is absolutely unthinkable at this point.

Yes, but when they were good, they were golden. Still considered classics today.

r92 it's about trashy, shit behavior and a general decline in artistic quality.

Also, nothing has ever come close to the beautifully lit actors when filmed in technicolor, imo.

[quote]People going around calling the Oscars ghetto and trashy don't seem to understand that ABC isn't in the business to put on a cotillion.

They're also not in the business of putting on a Worldstar video. What happened was appalling as was the lack of a response during the show.

R92, why would we give a fuck what you think anymore than anyone else?

SHOCK! MARY!

[quote]They're also not in the business of putting on a Worldstar video.

They're not? Do you know how views a clip on Worldstar gets versus your average everyday ABC TV show? The Oscars numbers went up by half a million post Will's slap. Did you turn the TV off, after Will's display of bad manners?

Once we had stars. Then we had celebrities. Then we had thugs do music and become stars. Some thugs became actors. Then people saw stars as nothing more than a flavor of celebrity. And voila, we get the Smiths.

The rule used to be that Hollywood would release a movie, you’d waste time and money to go see it if interested, and feign worship of the celebrity acting in it. Now everyone wants to be a celebrity and they don’t want to waste energy admiring someone else’s talents. Also no one wants to pay to sit in a velvet covered, flea/bedbug infested theatre and have to deal with cellphones. Theatres are no longer temples. There are too many celebrities, too many movies and no real standouts. Hollywood is o-ver (falls out window).

Being famous has changed. Gen Z watches TikTok, social media influencers, YouTubers, podcasters. Those are the stars. Some of these people are making more money than actors and singers.

James Charles makes $150,000 per sponsored post on Instagram. Jeffree Star is supposedly worth $200 million, those are just the gays, not the female stars or top straight guys.

Marketers, brands, big businesses are going towards social media influencers - they’ll sell any product.

Hollywood stars today don’t want to promote brands. 15 years ago they would do commercials but they don’t do a lot of branding on social media. You don’t see Jennifer Aniston selling brands online, to her it’s probably “beneath” her. But that’s where it’s at today!

And yes Gen Z loves streaming so eventually, TV stars will come before movie stars.

Maria Riva once said something insightful too and this was back in the 80’s.

When people approached her, they treated her like their dear friend. She was on TV, she was in their house.

When people approached Marlene, it was like God. She was on the bigger screen you had to go to.

Today, social media influencers are right on your phone. They post all the time, almost everyday, they’re in your lives everyday on your phone. They’re even closer to you than the TV star.

And that’s why Gen Z loves them.

For me it really started with the nepotism in HW. Of course that has always happened, but this was to the degree of literally watering down any real talent. People resented having these spoiled and entitled, not to mention BORING AF dip ships shoved in our faces.

This is one of the biggest stars out right now. If you don’t know her, it’s because you look at actors and singers.

She has 100+ million followers on TikTok, she’s been around since 2019, she has $12 million.

And she’s only getting bigger.

This is what Gen Z loves. It’s not much and I don’t understand it but this is the future lol.

[quote][R92], why would we give a fuck what you think anymore than anyone else?

You don't have to give a fuck what I think. I'm just an anonymous poster on this message board. What I think isn't any more valid than anyone else's opinion. As I said in an earlier post, I have no issues with people who want to Violet Venable their way through life. Maybe it's easier that way.

No one gave any fucks for the Oscars and people are talking about it because of the fake slap but it will be forgotten again.

Yes, there are still productions here, studios, talent agencies, ect. I was talking more about Hollywood's influence on our culture, and our common interest in movies, television, and the lives of actors and actresses. I think all of that is essentially over. The best parts of it, the glamour, the beauty of your Liz Taylors or Garbos, the fables like Lana Turner being discovered at Schwabs, legendary romances like Gable and Lombard or Newman and Woodward- all those types of things that captured our imaginations will never happen again.

I never thought it would end to the extent that it has.

Chris Rock hosting next year and getting a free for all on Will and Jada is gonna settle all the scores at every level of the Oscars. And they will give out some Oscars too.

R88 Excuse me? Are you saying I shouldn't have started this thread? Why? I was interested to hear what people had to say on the topic. I wasn't realy trying to "accomplish" anything.

Very weird, R88. An odd thing to accuse me of. Why does ANYONE start a thread here on ANY topic.

Go fuck yourself .

R88 if you dont like it, go fucking read another thread.

r112 by that time all Chris needs to do is wave a piece of paper and call it an NDA with a big old smile.

That opening scene if the 1978 Oscars in R39's link is repulsive. Even when 8 was a young kid, Bob Hope seemed an execrable old creep who had stuck around decades too long; his humor had spoiled in the refrigerator and everyone was asked to drink the soured milk as if it were still good.

Debbie Reynolds was a lightweight actress at best, a sort of Marie Osmond who just kept trying to carry on as if all of life orbited around her. I was born in 1962 and she had only a couple years more of prime from what had been a narrow window. By 1978 she was just old sequins and a wig. And those fucking endless sing and dance routines that persisted forever...Why? The problem if the Oscars was never long thank you speeches (wasn't that the point, after all), but the interminable stink of musical routines and geezers like Hope and Reynolds. That sort of glamor I can do without. Nothing wrong with having older presenters, nominees, and winners do long as they are somehow relevant or don't act like figures from the waxworks, awakened for one evening out, unaware that Bill Holden isn't still a leading man.

The poster who cited the TV debut if The Sopranos in 1999 as the death knell if not the death of the Oscars is right. There were smart independent and big studio films produced after that, but the well didn't take long to go dry. What's well scripted, well acted, well produced, and shows real talent today isn't on the big screen and hasn't been for years. Yet the Oscars carries on as if they might revive that stale fart smell of dead Bob Hope and dead Debbie Reynolds and dead song and dance numbers for an audience who miss their Lawrence Welk "glamor" injections.

R113, you completely misunderstood the post. It was a great thread you started and it had a ton of great replies. If there were "sides" both or all made sense. I really enjoyed reading it until it went off the rails thanks to the person who was arguing resistance to change and aging got snotty in the delivery. It lowered the tone. I was not intending to insult you or your thread.

Me too r117.

Sorry, R118?

[quote]I really enjoyed reading it until it went off the rails thanks to the person who was arguing resistance to change and aging

But you are resistant to change. You want the old ways and a lily-white audience with a few "acceptable" minorities, doing old show tunes at the Oscars. ABC pays a lot of money to put on this show and they want a return on their investment. Entertainment has always been about making money, you're just mad that you're no longer the target audience.

Just anecdotal, but the movies I’m watching are made by the streaming services.

“Promising Young Woman” was the only movie I’ve seen in a theatre for years. In the 1990s I was seeing a movie in the theater every weekend.

[quote]Bob Hope seemed an execrable old creep who had stuck around decades too long; his humor had spoiled in the refrigerator and everyone was asked to drink the soured milk as if it were still good.

Lots of people thought that at the time

R120- The tiresome Klan Granny Troll.

A Berliner in 1945: "Gee, things were a lot better 20 years ago." [R120]: "That's only because you were younger then. Things always improve as time passes. You just don't like change."

R120, you are low intelligence. It wasn't the argument, it was the unnecessary attitude that accompanied. But in tribute to it, put on your hairnet and report for your shift.

Relevant video

When was that? ^ It was funny. Back when the Oscars was still capable of fun. They talk so much about so much that's a real downer. The Oscars hasn't been a celebration it's been an annual atonement for years.

Hollywood will always exist in some context, but I think the glamour of the movie star and the old school Oscars are over. Pre-social media, the Oscars were really the only way to see a celebrity and there was a bit of mystery. With social media, they have to constantly feed the machine to stay relevant. If you follow any celebrity, there is always an IG Story buzzing for your attention. It takes away the mystery. I also think that due to the existing political and socio-economic climate celebs and studios are less likely to take risks. Also, there has been too much preaching from celebs juxtaposed with their total hypocrisy, which again is there for all the world to see with social media. People are struggling, the world is in chaos, and people don't want to be preached to by people with golden parachutes. I think there will always be a theatrical experience, but it will continue to diminish. As theatre style TV's continue to grow and become more accessible to the public, it's much nicer to pay even $20 to watch a new release at home than go to a theatre.

Someone was mentioning the iconic Faye Dunaway post Oscar photo. That was before my time, but I grew up and live in LA. I know that photo so well b/c so many people have that as a framed poster on their office walls. I love it, but I think it would be considered "problematic" if it were shot today. While it shows hard work, it also shows a level of decadence that i think would be frowned upon. I am really worried about art, comedy, and cinema. Getting permanently cancelled isn't worth it for most people. Many celebs are starting to admit as much. Some of the best performances come from brutal directors that push actors to the brink to bring out their best. That wouldn't fly today.