SS United States Rotting Away

I'll add this to my outrage list, but it's pretty far down

[quote] SS United States Rotting Away

Much like its namesake.

^ Russian in the house

A true reflection of the country

^ Would you like to talk about your miserable country now?

It was a fucking joke, R3 you stupid cunt.

Goddamn, it's like people here have completely lost any fucking sense of humor.

Miserable assholes.

^ But, it wasn't funny, asshole

USA rotting away. Fify OP

I'm going out for a Big Mac and a Coke... Yum!

... and I'm taking my new Mercedes

Their mistake was stripping the interiors. Now there’s nothing left except a rusting hull.

The ship needs a group sponsor to create a "preservation project" for it, similar to what was done for the USS Missouri.

All of these old ships qualify for historic preservation status, and as such can receive donations for restoration.

But if no one cares about it, then it won't get done.

This is sad. It should be made into a museum like the Midway in San Diego.

Aircraft carriers are amazing feats of engineering and should be preserved, even if they're outclassed by more modern ships. Being able to see the history of naval capability is fascinating to many people.

All warships are amazing, really. It's a shame to just junk them or let them rot and rust.

I've always thought it would be magnificent if it was restored and docked in NYC.

I agree. Without the interior what is there to preserve? That’s the main draw.

Old girl was too big, drank too much fuel, and came along too late. SS United States was a great ship, but era of transatlantic passenger liners was coming to a close. Immediate years post WWII traffic was heavy, but air travel was cutting into passenger numbers. This applied to all liners crossing between Europe and USA. Things got worse when jets replaced propeller planes cutting hours off transatlantic flight times.

There's long been nothing left of the interiors, everything that could be ripped or otherwise taken out was, and sold on long ago. She's just a slowly rusting hulk for most part.

This has been rotting away for decades now. Without an interior there’s not much to see.

I love old ships, but as others have pointed out there's not much left except a rusting hull. Tow her out to sea and sink her. Put the old girl out of her misery.

I'm surprised they just haven't turned this into an artificial (underwater) reef or sunken it as a safe shipwreck site for scuba divers to explore.

I'm with R18--tow it offshore and sink it in 100 feet of water.

She is a nice view to behold when you go to the Philly IKEA. But it think she is lost. I am sure somebody has been raking in a huge salary as president of the SS United States Conservancy doing absolutely nothing.

Cities using these aging dreamboats as a tourist draw generally get a mixed bag. Long Beach succeeded with the Queen Mary, but Mobile, NYC, and Philadelphia have had less success with big boats permanently docked as attractions.

The Queen Mary is just now getting the vital repairs she's needed for decades. As floating nonprofits, they're left to raise money on their own. And frankly, my dears, wealthy donors have more worthy causes these days.

The interior they ripped out was nearly 100% asbestos. All of the walls were made of Marinite, which is nothing but asbestos held together with cement. Somebody planned to gut the inside and make it a modern 1 class cruise ship, as opposed to a 3 class liner. They of course ram out of money.

They of course ram out of money.

TBH the interiors in the SS United States, while comfortable and pleasant, were not on the same sumptuous level as those of the Queen Mary or the big French liners. The United States was designed primarily to be available as a fast troopship, so its interior decoration was planned for quick and easy removal. No giant standing light fixtures like the ones on the Normandie that led to that ship catching fire and capsizing in 1942 while under conversion into a transport

My understanding was the ship was built for speed. Everything in it had to be light. So you have a lot of aluminum furniture instead of the wood in Cunard.

I bet it would look really ugly if it were still around.

Been there done that.

After touring America's new flagship and seeing the utilitarian steel and aluminum interiors a reviewer said:

'The SS United States is a troopship that can be converted into a ocean liner in 24 hours"

It's kind of emblematic of Philadelphia.

Probably better off to haul it out to sea and sink it so it can become a reef for sea life to live on and in.

Leave it as is, just rename it the SS Trump.

make her an artificial reef. what's the big deal?

prison ship? Homeless apartments? giant squat?

Fill her with Philly garbage and tow her down to Mar-a-Lago

[quote]My understanding was the ship was built for speed. Everything in it had to be light. So you have a lot of aluminum furniture instead of the wood in Cunard.

Light for speed, but of equal importance was the need to make her as fireproof as possible.

I saw interesting numbers once that showed the United States was a white elephant from the start. The only thing that kept her going was a contract to haul a large percentage of the US Troops and their families stationed in Germany during the 1950s. When they lost that contract to airplanes the handwriting was on the wall.

Take it out and sink it as a artificial reef.

Consider SS United States yet another example of a US federal government boondoggle.

Developed and built with extensive federal (military) funds and support SS United States would not have existed but for that intervention.

As with so many things post WWII (if not a bit before) USA had to have everything "bigger" and "better" than anything else in world at time. That's why the Metropolitan Opera House at Lincoln Center (another example) was built to be that huge barn of a place.

In any event just as with railroads federal government branches and various agencies largely abandoned great passenger liners in favor of air transport. This made the SS United States one huge redundant and expensive mess. Without military and or cargo/freight to offset considerable costs of each sailing, SS United States was becoming a huge money pit.

In 1960, transatlantic passenger service on jet airliners surpassed passenger service on ships for the first time. The age of the ocean liner was dead almost immediately.

As with railroads federal government interference (via regulations) helped kill off the Big U.

One such regulation...

"January / February 1962 U.S. Government regulations made clear as the ship was under construction that any ship in the U.S.L. fleet could not deviate from their intended line service, no matter how unprofitable the ship became. U.S.L. management protested and pleaded for these changes for months."

This meant even though federal government stopped using Big U for military purposes because she was built for that reason government refused to let S.S. United States to be used for other purposes.

"September 1, 1960 The U.S. Department of Commerce announces the contract to carry military dependents to and from Europe on the S.S. UNITED STATES and S.S. AMERICA are terminated. This was a severe blow for the U.S.L. who were already seeing dwindling numbers of passengers sailing due to airline competition. As a result, all cabins had to be sold commercially as military dependents filled a number of cabins. Like never before the company had to advertise and sell their product with focus on comfort, food and benefits of sea air to the public on order to fill the vacant space."

Making matters worse for S.S. United States was that post WWII European countries such as France, Italy, UK launched their own trans Atlantic liners that were far more luxurious than the SS United States. France's SS France made the S.S. United States look comparatively austere.

"Jan 1962 The S.S. FRANCE enters service. At 66,000 tons she is larger than her American competition with a cruising speed of some 30 knots. With the celebrated French line as operator- known for their service, luxury and their flawless kitchens(galley) the sleek new liner possessed a competitive edge over the Big U. As a result, it was noted that the ship continued to carry fewer passengers as a result."

Both ships of US Line, the S.S. United States and her sister ship the S.S. America began doing cruises in early 1961. But remember these ships were built for fast speed trans Atlantic sailing, not as "cruise ships" Neither had air conditioning IIRC, nor sort of amenities one expects on a cruise ship.

In 1984 mother of all maritime auctions was held with virutally everything in or on S.S. United States going under the hammer. Her current owner racked up huge fees associated with laying up of S.S. United States that he couldn't pay. Her horn, propellers, bell, furnishings, etc... all of it went.

S.S. United States is functionally obsolete, and she has been so for decades. It would cost hundreds of millions to modern SOLAS ocean going vessel standards. It would literally be far cheaper to just build another ocean liner brand new.

“Regrettably, the technical feasibility study concluded that while the ship is remarkably intact and structurally sound, modifying the ship for today’s standards for oceangoing service (SOLAS) would require significant changes to the hull that would pose stability challenges,” according to a statement from Crystal Cruises. “Additionally, the installation of a modern, state-of-the-art diesel electric propulsion plant would have necessitated altering of the existing shaft lines and rebuilding about 25 percent of the hull to reconfigure the ship to a twin shaft-twin rudder arrangement.

“While it was known that the vessel would need to have been essentially rebuilt from the inside out, these specific challenges, among others, collectively posed significant risk to the success of the project.”

More...

Still more.

What old girl looks like today...

This sounds horrible to say, but some of the above comments are why I don't give to specific preservation efforts unless I know the people directly involved. If there is no accountability for where all the $$$ is going, you might as well flush it down the toilet.

I realize a lot of this particular effort is tied up in the docking fees in Philly, but at some point it's the same concept as storing things in a storage unit. If the things you are storing are worth less than what you've paid for storage, it's time to get rid of your stuff.

Why don't they scrap it? Is it toxic with the asbestos?

Look at S.S. France (who only had about thirteen years in trans Atlantic service before being decommissioned), tells what might have been with S.S. United States.

S.S. France became the Norway, and had a second glorious life as a cruise ship.

Have several friends who are "cruise queens", and they have nothing but good things to say about the Normandy.

S.S. France

The Queen Mary in Long Beach is currently closed due to deferred maintenance finally being addressed by the city, who just regained control of the ship last year. Film productions are still allowed to be on board; 'Reno 911' filmed much of their QAnon special on board last year.

"Bi-Tanic" with porn actors in period costumes secretly filmed onboard the Queen Mary.

Joan Crawford for RMS Queen Mary

RMS Queen Mary was a great ship. Built for speed, luxury and to last, but oh how she rolled.

United States of America Rotting Away

Fixed for OP

R46 Normandy?

The ship made 400 trips to Europe. There was homosex on every one of those. Stewards on ships were as gay then as stewards on planes are today.

12,000 episodes of homosex?

R24

It wasn't the stanchions in the Grand Salon of the SS Normandie, but incompetence and negligence that caused the fire. Once that event occurred further incompetence by Rear Admiral Adolphus Andrews who brushed off designer of SS Normandie, (who happened to be in New York for a meeting), with a brusque "this is a navy matter".

More....

[quote] ^ But, it wasn't funny, asshole

R2 i found it funny. I LOLed 😂

Why don't they turn it into a museum like the Intrepid in New York, i wonder.

Breaks my heart a little. I sailed to Europe with my parents on it when I was three years old. It's one of my earliest memories. I remember a playroom with a little slide....a movie theater, which was very exciting....throwing up in the dining room....an SS United States rubber ball given to me by a steward (where is that thing? It was around for years, my mother must have thrown it out along with all my other stuff). Supposedly a Barrymore was on the ship.

R59

Intrepid like Queen Mary went straight from active service to being laid up and repurposed at once. It would cost a major fortune to restore S.S. United States for any purpose, even being laid up as some sort of tourist attraction or hospitality use. Hence reason no one has bothered.

Again you could literally build an entire new modern ship for what it would cost to restore Big U even for non ocean going purposes. This and there are (or were) plenty of ships that could have been saves for such purposes, the France or QEII come to mind...

I remember the SS France coming into Syndey Harbour. She was long and beautiful.

Can you visit the SS United States privately?

All requests for tours must go through SS United States Conservancy group.

The ship is not considered safe to visit and as r64 posted, you must receive special permission. Most of the youtube videos are from people who snuck onboard.

William Francis Gibbs, her builder, watched the US Navy destroy the NORMANDIE when she caught fire in the early days of the war and vowed that his ship would not suffer the same fate, so he made the UNITED STATES as fireproof as possible. She was fast and super safe but she had those awful mid century interiors. Her older running mate, AMERICA, had much more sumptuous interiors, with lots of wood and brass and velvet in a Moderne style. Some ship historians consider her, and not the “Big U”, to be the most beautiful US built liner constructed. But she was a rarity. American shipping companies never could build up their liner fleet to compete with their European counterparts, a combination of many factors.

You can't establish a transatlantic service with just one boat.

You have to have several boats, so passengers have options on the return. Not everyone can stay for two weeks in the destination and take a whole month away.

Americans never had consistency in terms of size and service. Plus, our merchant seaman have always been the highest paid which cut into the profits of a shipping company. Gibbs had plans for super liners since the early 1900s, but something always got in the way-war, the Depression, another war and the ridiculous bureaucracy from the shipping companies and especially the US government.

My understanding is SS Normandie wasn't an accident. The Germans destroyed it as a warning to France not to resist a German invasion. Guess what? France didn't resist a German invasion.

AFA constructing another ship, aren't there enough of these vessels extant polluting the seas? And where would the new vessel(s) be registered? Cruise ships are registered in banana republics, thereby bypassing taxes, and human rights laws.

If the oil lobby didn't have a stranglehold on its fancyboys/girls in Washington, D.C., the US could've had the most modern and efficient HS rail in the world. Instead we have the corpse named Amtrak.

R67

Quite right!

Cunard has got things right, but they would wouldn't they?

Currently three Queens, Elizabeth, Victoria and Mary 2 are in service. With plans for Queen Anne to launch by 2024.

Mind you these are all cruise ships, not strictly for transatlantic service.

This why all noise about restoring and returning SS United States to service is just that. There just isn't enough market for transatlantic crossings year round to make such a venture profitable, and it cannot be done with just one ship.

Year round service is really a misnomer. Anyone who could back in the day avoided crossing Atlantic during winter months when weather often made for notoriously unpredictable weather. If things were clam voyage was fine, but if not you either had to be well seasoned or packed plenty of Dramamine

Brideshead Revisted episode where Charles and Cecilia Ryder along with Julia were going back to England via ship was filmed on Queen Elizabeth 2, though they were all supposed to be on Queen Mary which for obvious reasons at time of filming wasn't going to happen.

What episode did get correctly (and perhaps this was by intent), was how famously bad Queen Mary rolled and pitched during storms.

R69 Your understanding is wrong. The Normandie was burned and sunk by incompetence on a mammoth scale. The US Navy marched on board and dismissed the entire French crew. They then proceeded to disconnect the ships state of the art fire fighting system and sprinklers. They then unballasted the ship leaving her top heavy. The government contractors ignored or violated every fire safety precaution. When the inevitable fire was started by welding sparks in a pile of flammable life preservers there was no water to put it out. The New York City fire dept then completed the destruction by pumping 20,000 tons of water into the ship.. That put our the fire but sunk the Normandie. The Nazi's didn't need to lift a finger the US Navy did it for them.

It makes me so sad that we lost the Normandie. Would that the Nazis had won, but we still had such a lovely ship to sail to Nazi France aboard. Just think of the service!

While we're on the subject, the Stockholm, ship that hit the Andrea Doria which caused her to sink, still is sailing.

Now called M.V. Astoria, the former Stockholm was built in 1948, and at 73 years old she is the oldest ship still sailing deep waters.

Here's the odd twist of rate; ex-Stockholm was sold to Italy of all places and went to Genoa, Italy, same docks Andrea Doria sailed from originally.

Last July an American business group bought the Astoria at auction with plans to turn her into a hotel.

The Queen Mary is a broken down shithole that needs more money in repairs than anyone will spend. Deals have fallen through (Disney, among one), vendors have mismanaged money and declared bankruptcy, and the cities pittance of a contribution is nothing.

I've eaten brunch there several times over the past 20 years, and each time it is more decrepit. It's sad really, but unless there is some billionaire's interest that ship is destined for stripping and sinking- which is still an astronomical cost.

Queen Mary needs approximately $250 million in repairs, and that's a 5 year old study.

QM requires " 289 million worth of renovations and upgrades were needed to keep parts of the ship from flooding." Another $23 million in immediate repairs to prevent it from potentially capsizing.

QM2 is the only ship afloat certified as a real liner, capable of North Atlantic crossings in all weather. All the others are cruise ships.

Just flipping through the channels at 5:40am and here's an episode of Matt Houston on DecadesTV shot onboard the Queen Mary.

R80

Wrong!

Queen Mary 2 is an ocean liner and certified as such. She is the only ocean liner that makes regularly scheduled trips across Atlantic between Southampton and New York City.

QM2 also does cruises, which IIRC she undertakes on "off season" when weather isn't so great to make transatlantic crossings (winter months). QM2 also does a quite famous annual world cruise.

"The ship was officially named Queen Mary 2 by Queen Elizabeth II in 2004 after the first RMS Queen Mary of 1936. Queen Mary had in turn been named after Mary of Teck, consort of King George V. With the retirement of Queen Elizabeth 2 in 2008, Queen Mary 2 is the only transatlantic ocean liner in regular service between Southampton, England, and New York City, United States. The ship is also used for cruising, including an annual world cruise."

Cunard's other two Queens Victoria and Elizabeth are cruise ships only.

As we speak Queen Mary 2 is on her way to New York, having departed Southampton on 20 March.

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R82, that's exactly what I said, QM2 is the only certified passenger liner afloat, capable of crossing the North Atlantic in all weather and conditions. All the others are cruise ships. What's wrong with you?

R82, why did you call me Wrong! and then repeat exactly what I said?

Oh clam down, misread "QM2" for something else.

I was wrong, *YOU* were right. Ok, now are you happy?

Some of you damn people on DL are like a bunch of six year old kids. It's like this place is all you live for.

R87, you admit you have no visual nor reading comprehension and then declare the rest of us six year old kids. Right.

My BF and I toured the Queen Mary many years ago.

The thing that struck us was how claustrophobic it was. Even the first class rooms seemed tiny. And the main room was smaller than we anticipated and looked very dowdy. Granted, the lighting was dim and it hadn't been taken care of, but we left less than impressed.

R73 Historical illiterate.

R77 Knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Philistine.

They could convert it into a decent maritime museum. The one Philadelphia has now sucks.

We stayed on the Queen Mary in Long Beach when I was a kid, and my Father was so alarmed by its condition that he made us all walk with him to each of the fire exits on our deck so we would know where they were in case of emergency. He was convinced that it was a disaster waiting to happen and that was 30+ years ago.

R93 Your father.

[quote]S.S. France became the Norway, and had a second glorious life as a cruise ship.

Toward the end, the [italic]Norway[/italic] was the budget ship in the NCL fleet, favored by college kids looking for a cheap party barge. My partner is an ocean liner buff and loved the history; we cruised in 2002 (just before the boiler accident that sent it to the breakers in India), and even though it was old and busted, it still had traces of its former glamma. It still had assigned seating in the main dining rooms after all the other NCL ships switched to "freestyle." The food was extremely bland, but the alternative (extra-cost) restaurant was great.

[quote]What episode did get correctly (and perhaps this was by intent), was how famously bad Queen Mary rolled and pitched during storms.

My aunt got very seasick on the Queen Mary. She was one of the war brides who sailed on her. My aunt was not the usual English war bride coming to America, she was an American sailing to England. She met my uncle in the States during the war. Lived in England until the 50s then they moved here permanently. Their kids were born there.

Another [italic]France/Norway[/italic] page, including the last video taken on board

People in the conservancy group on Facebook are absolute loons in denial.

Scrap it already. This long and drawn out drama is so tiresome. I know of two people who were banned from a Facebook page on the Big U because they said that it would never be saved because people were trying to for decades and nothing happened. I ended up leaving the group shortly afterwards. Ocean liner stans have their own mean girls and cliques.

Stripping those Motel 6 interiors was the best thing that ever happened to that ship. As mentioned, she lacked grandeur and gravitas. Basically a war machine masquerading as an ocean liner. They should have sold her to the Greeks when they had the chance.

Just popping in for an update.

SS United States was an impressive ship but not so historically significant as to warrant the expense of permanent preservation. You can't save every hull.

I wonder how much money the conservancy has racked up in unpaid berthing fees now.

Now this would have been the ocean liner worthy of being saved. Ça alors !

Yes, I’m still upset over the Normandie R104. I hope the guys at Titanic Honor and Glory recreate the Normandie next as they leave no detail unturned.

This should be transformed into a massive portside gay resort/nightclub and named "CRUISE."

No reason this boat should be maintained. I can see WWI or WWII boats but this is a nothingburger.

There are things that have a historical relevance that I'd like to see restored/maintained/put into a museum, like the Westinghouse Atom Smasher.

The SS United States looked like a troop ship compared to the non pareil SS Normandie.

Wouldn't the S.S. Datalounge be a more appropriate name?

and the ship isn't doing well either.