Texas Governor Opens Child Abuse Investigations On Transgender Minors

Animal control needs to look into the vegan cat situation as well.

If a boy wants to wear a dress, he shouldn't be railroaded by parents into thinking transgender, like "Jazz Jennings.".

According to the NYT - Child Abuse Investigators have been told to make ALL transgender cases, their TOP priority. That transgender cases supersede every and all cases of child abuse in the state on Texas

Good.

I agree with R2, but the state government needs to stay out of it.

If i were a child today my overly fussy parents may have me undergo gender affirmation.

I think that would cause me greatest harm than wearing my mother's makeup now and then.

Thanks Texas!

Judge Any Clark Meachum has already granted an injunction, pending a lawsuit set for trial on July 11.

Upper middle class liberals live in a parallel universe.

The far left keeps getting crazier and crazier.

If y'all ain't from Texas, you need to smarten up.

The left ain't dragging trans kids and their parents into the spotlight.

This is an issue of medial privacy.

Just like reproductive rights.

Dataloungers NEED to highlight THIS story of Texas' foster kids getting human-trafficked sexploited, who under the care and custody of Paxton and Gov Abbott's direct control.

Instead, since only Feb. 22, 2022, these fuckers have opened 9 investigations into parents who have trans kids.

The most clear-cut thread wherein the anti trans dataloungers outline their support for republicans will result in how many eureka moments? I’m hopeful but realistically probably zero? Btw ladies they hate you too, not just the trans kids x.

[Quote] The far left keeps getting crazier and crazier.

The exact words the right said when gays discussed gay marriage at the beginning

[Quote] If a boy wants to wear a dress, he shouldn't be railroaded by parents into thinking transgender, like "Jazz Jennings.".

Parents actually don’t do that. They do everything to pretend the kid isn’t gay or trans. EVERYTHING.

It’s only when the kid says, “Im a girl and I’ll kill myself if you don’t let me be a girl” that parents finally involve doctors

Only 20 minutes ago on Facebook — past 9 p.m. on a Friday night — Paxton has announced his appeal to this afternoon's decision is filed.

And so far, Paxton's post has garnered more than 950 comments....

R11 I don't think the tactic of linking abortion and unnecessary medical procedure on children is working for trans activists.

SCOTUS' decision for Roe v Wade wasn't about abortion.

It was about PRIVACY RIGHTS!

Get these fuckers out of my privates!

In January 1973, the Supreme Court issued a 7–2 decision in McCorvey's favor ruling that the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution provides a "right to privacy" that protects a pregnant woman's right to choose whether to have an abortion.

I don't think you can argue privacy to justify unnecessary medical procedures on children.

How would you like it if privacy rights were used to argue for gay conversion therapy for children?

Why can't you argue it?

Even 14 year old children in Texas can marry other 14 year old children...

With parental consent and judicial approval a person can marry at 14. A person can marry at 16, as long as one party isn't more than three years older than the minor, and 1) their parent consents, or 2) they are emancipated. With parental consent, a person can marry at 17.

We're talking about unnecessary medical procedures. The state has to act as a counterbalance when parents and doctors are mistreating children.

There is no such thing as trans kids.

The state can't even get their fucking "counterbalance" story straight.

AUSTIN — Fighting to keep his job in a heated GOP primary this year, Attorney General Ken Paxton repeatedly insisted that certain medical treatments for transgender youth are abusive and illegal.

But in the relative calm of a court hearing, the state’s lawyers have said something quite different: Gender-affirming care for minors is not abuse in all cases, and the state won’t go after parents just because their trans child is receiving these treatments.

“Despite the frankly breathless media coverage of these important issues, there has been no call to investigate all trans youth or all youth undergoing these gender affirming procedures or therapies. That’s not the case,” Assistant Attorney General Ryan Kercher said in court last week in the first legal test for the state’s policy of investigating certain care for trans minors as abuse.

The conflicting statements are causing confusion among state workers, sowing fear among parents and kids — and raising questions about what the state’s new directive targeting gender-affirming treatments for trans youth means in practice.

Non-medical gender affirming treatments wouldn't be problematic.

But puberty blockers, hormones and therapies would be considered abuse.

*surgical therapies

Parents wouldn't be prosecuted for using different names or pronouns.

Well, today's decision about puberty blockers was heavily heavily dissected with multiple experts physicians being grilled for hours.

And judgement was issued!

And the judgement says the hormone blockers are NOT abuse.

SO FUCK YOU!

Anyone voting that they support these fascist monsters is a fucking monster themselves.

Whatever happened to “love yourself as you are?” I’d like to be a little taller but I’m not going to stretch my legs out. Cock chopping is gruesome and going halfway with tits and a dick is just nasty.

R27 cums at the thought of gay children getting mutilated.

R26 is another tranny child molester.

[quote] The exact words the right said when gays discussed gay marriage at the beginning

Nope. Go dilate your wound, chubs.

R26, puberty blockers damage brain development, bones, genitalia development and fertility. No way can a kid understand all these ramifications.

R26 the England NHS has commissioned a major review of current pediatric transgender care. The interim report was released this week, and it said way more evidence is needed on "blockers" (remember, Lupron was first a cancer drugs, then rebranded as a puberty blocker--this is the "necessary medical intervention" you are championing) before any conclusions can be reached. You should read this.

Why isn't this Milo impersonator going back to the issue of marriage rights — especially in Texas' rural districts — that allows 14 year olds to marry other 14 year olds....?

Dig into that history and point the child-molester fingers at that centuries-old U.S. custom....?

ANY arguments that are not directly about this issue (e.g. "what would Milo think??", "Republicans said the same thing about gays!!", or "Texas is at it again lmao rofl!!") are TOTALLY irrelevant! They are not about the issue at hand, which is 1. Do "trans" kids exist (gender non conforming kids exist, but imo they are rebranding them as trans and that's why some of us are horrified) and 2. Are cancer drugs like Lupron (#1 "puberty blocker") the appropriate way to address mental problems in these kids.

It's not the Republicans fault that the crazy left was not told NO when they installed this insidious ideology. Trans ideology is fundamentally anti homosexual--if you think this is hyperbole, I recommend you just wait and watch. I guarantee you will see what is happening eventually, hopefully not too late for all of our asses!!

To the cheap Milo knockoff: Your tone seems pointed...

Sanity and reason! Finally!

If humans don't transition, then why do men have nipples?

I mean, other than chawing on titties keeps ours dicks hard

But aren't nipples God's great evidence that all men transitioned from female — which comes AFTER the heartbeats.....?

R38 all mammals, male and female, have nipples, so I have to assume your argument is "every mammal is evidence is transition!" To which the obvious counter is "evidence of embryotic development does not imply trans gender."

R38 A male remains a male, no matter how many hormones he stuffs himself with, how much mutilative surgery he undergoes, how much make-up he applies or how long his hair.

Humans - male and female - do NOT transition. They remain forever and always as they were born.

Okay... why do men have nipples?

What's the function of nipples?

And are you saying the male gender can possibly be determined before nipples are installed?

[quote] And are you saying the male gender can possibly be determined before nipples are installed?

Oh, dear! Someone didn't attend biology class.

Texas shouldbe more concerned with this kind of abuse:

Oh, dear....

Are you saying that there has ever been the detection of a Y chromosome earlier than 4 weeks.....?

R44 who cares? What point are you going to office? They're not trying to transition kids in the womb. This is a dumb argument.

[quote]The most clear-cut thread wherein the anti trans dataloungers outline their support for republicans will result in how many eureka moments?

They all know. They don't care. Haven't you figured that out yet?

Perhaps you didn't see the thread about Florida's Don't Say Gay law where a half-dozen old DL coots said "what's so wrong about this?"

The other day one of these anti-trans trolls started a rightwing whine-fest about Stephen Colbert, and I pointed out yet again that the anti-trans trolls ARE the rightwing trolls, and two people tried to tell me that this wasn't true [bold] on a thread started by an anti-transer that was obviously rightwing trollbait. [/bold]

There's a reason these trolls have set up house here.

Oh... So transition does now happen for humans?

Hmmmmm......

[quote]It's not the Republicans fault that the crazy left was not told NO when they installed this insidious ideology.

Real Dataloungers (and not these rightwing KiwiFarms interlopers) need to start paying attention, but they won't.

We're in the midst of a huge wave of anti-LGBT legislation, and if you think that's not going to affect you in a decade when you're in need of a care home that now won't take you because you're gay, or medical care that you can't get anymore because doctors work for clinics owned by churches who can now refuse to see anyone LGBT, you're mistaken.

You think you're only hurting trans kids who you hate anyway because of their smartphones and Millennial Pink and TikToks and all the other culture wars junk, but you're hurting yourself, too.

[quote]that the anti-trans trolls ARE the rightwing trolls

Because it's soooooo progressive to call a man in a dress a woman.

Real Texans have the luxury of space to think and be whatever the fuck they — with limitless, sexy jurisdiction.

Don't mess with our individualism.

Real texans can wear dresses.

And real texas women can wear pants.

And real texans never infringe upon the freedoms of fellow Texans.

Go back to whatever small crawlspace that limits your imagination and stay the fuck out both Texas and our privacy.

R43 Texas is doing the sensible/right thing displaying its concern with ALL forms of child abuse.

R43, don't listen to R51.

Abbott waited too fucking long to respond to the sex-trafficking scandal because Abbott was wasting state resources tied up in a Texas Dept. Family of Protective Services court hearing all morning when a press conference went live this afternoon to admit the abuse.

And Abbott still didn't have a comment ready until after the press conference was over.

Snooze-loser.

Bit Abbot hard on the ass today.

He's probably more pissed off at his staff than Putin is.

The situation as it stands sucks for true liberals who believe in free speech, privacy, but also evidence and are anti-groupthink, which is the current state of the pro trans side (reflected in r36 r46 r48 r50, unable to conceive of non-conservative opposition to "puberty blockers" et al.). I'm horrified by the pro trans sheep all reading from the same liturgy, pretending to believe in science but literally only when it supports them, and never with the appropriate respect that ALL science is, to some extent, "up for debate" (in that in science there must not be sacred cows, eventing just be justifiable and falsifiable).

I also doNOT trust Republicans to get this right! Abbott is a total asshole, there's no way he wouldn't dick this up even if he were genuine in concern for kids, which I don't believe he is.

So where do people like me to? Personally, I'm confident that pesky things like "the facts of sexual dimorphism in humans" will remain stubbornly persistent until reason and rationality reasserts itself and people like the posters mentioned above have completely forgotten they ever supported this lunacy.

Hermaphroditus — in Greek myth — was the son of Hermes and Aphrodite.

The water-nymph Salmacis, seeing him bathing in a pool, fell in love with him and prayed that they might never be separated.

The gods interpreted her request literally and joined the pair into one body.

I cannot believe DL would legitimately be in favor of this crap. I would remind people that this is the same state that has no problem with conversion therapy - ACTUAL CHILD ABUSE.

This is the height of governmental overreach in a state that has already essentially banned abortion completely. If these investigations are seen as legal you can bet gays will be the next on the chopping block.

I'm sure DL will scream and cry when parents of gaylings are being investigated for child abuse but who in Texas is going to listen at that point?

[quote] Non-medical gender affirming treatments wouldn't be problematic.

r23 There are no such things as "non-medical" gender affirming treatments/healthcare. What's non-medical would be plain old therapy which the pro-trans/-lgbtq+ activist loons immediately deem as "conversion therapy").

I'm no expert but that doesn't sound right to me R56. Not everyone who identifies as trans chooses to medically transition. Surely non-medical treatments would simply be a safe way for kids to develop how their wish to express their gender identity through clothing/makeup etc.

[quote]Surely non-medical treatments

R57 What constitutes a "non-medical treatment"?

I'm assuming counseling R58, with the focus on helping a child express their desired gender identity in whatever way they feel comfortable.

R59 Counseling can be considered a "medical treatment", especially if performed by someone with a medical degree, e.g., a psychiatrist.

What you mean is assisting someone who may have difficulties with gender non-conformation. "Non-medical treatment" is a misnomer.

R60. Is it? If medication is not involved, and the client is being treated, that term seems to describe it perfectly.

In that case, a psychiatrist seems unnecessary when a psychologist would do perfectly well.

Regardless of the terminology though, it seems harmless enough. Frankly, medical treatments seem harmless enough as well. I don't understand where all this distrust of doctors has come from (well, I actually do considering the opioid crisis) but assuming that doctors haven't done their due diligence in their recommendations to the children and their parents seems highly cynical.

And investigations for child abuse into the parents seems cruel.

A child can consent to puberty blockers. Jazz Jennings took them at 12 years of age and because of that had to have an experimental surgery using his stomach lining to create a vagina. It's hard to be put back together multiple times. No 12 year old could have ever understood the ramifications. Not brain damage, not a permanently shrunken down penis, not bone loss.

And what a euphemism calling this mengele experiment 'gender affirming care'.

I feel tempted to agree R62 but some 12 year olds are remarkably astute and they (should) have a support network of parents, family and doctors around them to make it clear what the ramifications are. I know 12 year olds are just kids but do we just wait until everyone's 25 before they're allowed to make life altering decisions?

omg

Would you let those astute 12 year olds drive your car? Represent you in court? Do your taxes?

R61

[quote]If medication is not involved, and the client is being treated, that term seems to describe it perfectly.

But it doesn't. Because there's nothing "medical" about the treatment. Only your misinterpretation.

[quote]medical treatments seem harmless enough as well

There is nothing "harmless" about medical professionals recommending medications and treatments that have no basis in science, but rather are prescribed to fulfill whim/fancy and their pockets. There is nothing harmless about parents who approve these "treatments" against all sense and reason, believing it is a "solution".

[quote]but assuming that doctors haven't done their due diligence in their recommendations to the children and their parents seems highly cynical.

What is cynical is the belief that both the doctors and their parents are acting solely in the interests of the children.

[quote]And investigations for child abuse into the parents seems cruel.

Stuffing their children with hormones and subjecting them to medical mutilation in the belief that it will "transform" them, let alone make them happy, is cruel and abusive. It's another form of parental physical abuse, which the State currently steps in to prevent. As it rightly does in this case.

R66. I'm not well-versed in this literature but why exactly do you believe that "medical professionals [are] recommending medications and treatments that have no basis in science". What exactly do you believe is against scientific practice here? Gender-affirming treatments? Gender dysphoria itself?

Your rhetoric sounds quite conspiratorial. How are these professionals profiteering off transitioning children? Why do you think parents or doctors wouldn't act in the best interests of the children?

Do you avoid doctors on principle because you don't believe they have your best interests at heart either?

You're very welcome to look it up yourself and share a study on the long term effects on the use of puberty blockers r67

I probably should R68. My lack of knowledge makes me unable to meaningfully contribute. But I would encourage everyone on DL to do the same rather than repeat the same poorly-supported arguments against trans people.

Especially when this sort of governmental investigation is just ripe for abuse.

How can you what is or isn't well supported when you admit you don't know what you're talking about?

I don't know what is or isn't well supported R70. That's why I was asking. However, I have critical thinking faculties and can recognize a coherent and cohesive argument when I see one though.

Sadly nobody in this thread has provided a decent argument as to why this investigation is something to support, nor why people believe transgender minors are in danger.

If only experts in psychiatric medicine can be expected to spot a good argument in this area you will find this thread has very little productive to say.

Children not being able to consent to puberty blockers is an excellent reason. Unless you think a 12 year is the best judge of whether or not they should have a permanently shrunken penis? You're welcome to share your thoughts.

r71 if the state of Texas will justify medically unnecessary treatment of intersex/dsd conditions and circumcisions, it's not as if they care all that much about bodily intergrity does it?

And we could go a step further with questioning the morality of child beauty pageants, where many young girls are sporting more make up than a drag queen.

the frequent exploitive nature of little leagues where adult fights breakout routinely while sacrificing their children's education and gamble away their futures on the hopes that their seven year old might make it to the nfl one day.

and what about LGBT parents raising children in general and the corruption to all their friends or the public school sstems, should they be exposed to that kind of thing at such a young age? Will Texans have to move to Florida to find some relief from the creeping menace of this dangerous influence?

Divorced and single parents, too!

Where are the public executions to make an example of them?

Women should be covered from head to toe, so they can be free of the toxic male gaze!

R67

[quote] but why exactly do you believe that "medical professionals [are] recommending medications and treatments that have no basis in science

A doctor telling a child and his parents that stuffing him with hormones will "solve" his issues about "identity" has no basis in science.

[quote]What exactly do you believe is against scientific practice here? Gender-affirming treatments? Gender dysphoria itself?

Yes. Yes.

[quote]How are these professionals profiteering off transitioning children?

By offering them physical treatments to "cure" a mental issue. There's a ton of money to be made from the "trans" nonsense, by medical professionals, pharmaceutical companies, communal organizations, to say nothing of the clothing and personal care industry. Such as for "gender-affirming treatments".

[quote] Why do you think parents or doctors wouldn't act in the best interests of the children?

Because both doctors and parents are preying on the ignorance and insecurities of the child, who looks to them for safety and protection. Neither of which are being provided by people encouraging the child to medically alter what can never be altered.

[quote]Do you avoid doctors on principle because you don't believe they have your best interests at heart either?

I'm an adult, with far more experience about life than a child. And for major medical events, people regularly ask for second and even third opinions, because they have enough experience in life to know to gather information to make an informed decision.

Why do you think parents or doctors wouldn't act in the best interests of the children?

^ vaccines. and vaccines. They're making the frogs gay. The chem trails. The fast food industry. Meat! It's all a trans conspiracy! All of it! The medical establishment must be stopped, end their tyranny! Bring back a new GREEN world! Bring on the dark ages and save the environment! For the children, for a better tomorrow for all of us!

In comparison, exactly why is Ridalin — kiddie meth — so unscrutinized?

What bogus explanation of that controlled substance is so easy to shrug off?

R74 R75 R76 reinforces why Texas is sane and rational in its investigations into child abuse by parents attempting to "transition" their children.

Erratum R77 R73, not R74

I am old. And when I was 14 years old, my high school football team was historical.

Freshmen footballers were pissing blood they were so tanked up on steroids.

Testosterone. Exactly the named substance that was so demonized during the Texas court hearing about trans kids.

Everyone looked the other way.

No one -- especially the major metropolitan sports pages -- ever examined why these 14 year olds had the biceps of 35-year-old gym rats.

I can still flip through my yearbook and be amazed at the meat these dudes had on their bods.

R72. I'm reading a paper now (Giordano et al., 2021) that suggests that puberty blockers are reversible but gender affirming treatment using ‘cross-sex hormones’ are not. They note "‘Cross-sex hormones’ are usually not prescribed before the age of 16 when, at least in England and Wales, minors have a statutory right to consent to medical treatment." I don't know if this is the same for the US but I'm not seeing puberty blockers as a problem.

I would also encourage people to read the paper as it systematically breaks down the possible reasons why minors are unable to consent to puberty blockers before refuting each argument.

R73. I have no idea what you're saying. Your post seems a mishmash of different ideas expressed as a stream of consciousness. I would encourage you to try and streamline your thoughts and built a coherent argument.

R74. I cannot understand why you would refute gender-affirming treatments or gender dysphoria unless you provide an explanation as such. The rest of your post seems conspiratorial and similarly unsubstantiated.

r77 The problem with the state intervention like this.. is the questions to the motivations behind it.

I rather doubt it has much to do with concerns for the child...

though I do rather agree with regulation and largely, restriction until 16-21.

But I find that most people discussing it are just trans-hating idiots that revel in their hyperbole and ignorance in the same way other hate groups operate.

That's very troubling R79 but I feel it is less effective to point out the hypocrisy of a crappy state like Texas than it is to argue the basic principles underlying this investigation - i.e., that gender dysphoria is actually a real condition and that gender-affirming treatments have positive outcomes on transgender youth.

[quote]why exactly do you believe that "medical professionals [are] recommending medications and treatments that have no basis in science".

Like all cranks these days, they think they know better than doctors, experts, professionals, and parents.

The bottom line for most arguments is that these people believe they should have the right to determine what other people do with their bodies, and to limit what treatments doctors and medical/mental health professionals can give. They want the government to step in and make their own medical opinions -- and keep in mind they're not just laypersons, but often laypersons who have gotten their medical information from blogs and tweets and such -- law.

That's why there's such overlap between the anti-trans, the anti-abortion, the anti-surrogacy, the anti-sex work, and the anti-gay marriage types. They're all coming from the same basic place.

So true R81. I have said it multiple times and I will say it again; I fear that state intervention like this will eventually be turned on gay youth. Christians already believe that gay men are a product of negligent fathers and an "unhealthy" attachment to mothers (I have literally read a paper from a religious institution arguing these points).

How long before this sort of investigation is conducted against the parents of gay children?

[quote] I cannot understand why you would refute gender-affirming treatments or gender dysphoria unless you provide an explanation as such

R80 Gender-affirming treatments are predicated on the belief that the physical will "cure" the mental. That medically replicating female stereotypes makes one thus. No, it doesn't. It makes one an insulting parody.

[quote]The problem with the state intervention like this.. is the questions to the motivations behind it.

R81 The "motivation" is quite clear. To prevent the medical experimentation on children by people who should know better and don't. It's child abuse. The State is stepping in to stop it. They should be applauded and supported.

[quote]they think they know better than doctors, experts, professionals, and parents.

R83 They know how to engage their brains, step back and look at an issue that is providing a tremendous amount of money and power to its proponents, but nothing else. And unlike you, they were awake in their biology class and well and truly know that all the "gender-affirming treatment" in the world will not change a male into a female. He was, is and will always remain M A L E.

r82 the same would apply to the haters in the crowd that are unable to differentiate their agendas from this specific issue.

Such as the history of "truscum" vs the trans+ or more directly those with dysphoria vs those without. And of course, the people without dysphoria greatly outnumbered those with dysphoria... which offset the research, the practice and ultimately how revising the previous "standard" which regulated the situation.. the addition of the trans plus crowd all but gutted and removed the standard as trans began to go mainstream.

similar issues befell the LGB communities when they also became a fashionable yet rebellious"fad" that displaced many of the longstanding leaders within the community - our organizations, ultimately, given more to the need of funds as centers began to close with wider access to the internet.

the plus was added to many communities misaligning it with the trend of intersectional social justice movements back in the day or as they were called facetiously called then "social justice warriors"

and of course, this thread alone, likely has an infusion of terfs, particularly the sociopolitical and legacy influence of political lesbians - where their anti-trans politics predate the existence of trans. . . and seeks a consolidation of power for a separate agenda to which this latest hysterical panic is just a means to achieving relevancy after having been swept aside at the height of the civil rights movement with the greater rise of feminism and recognition of lgbt rights.

R86 Which has absolutely NOTHING to do with medical professionals and parents medically abusing children. But carry on ranting.

R85, I feel that mischaracterizes gender-affirming treatments. Nonetheless, regardless of what you may feel about them, the statistics suggest that they do work. I am reading Rew and colleagues (2021) who conducted a meta-analysis of youth on reversible puberty blockers and noted a significant increase in positive outcomes including decreased suicidality as well as improved affect and psychological functioning. Do you have any data to suggest that gender-affirming treatments cause negative outcomes on transgender youth or adults?

Furthermore, I think the motivation is not clear. Texas has a terrible track record with this sort of thing, not the least of which includes the abortion law they recently passed. I also take issue with the idea that this is child abuse.

Per your last point, I would agree that people cannot change their biological sex. But people do have a gender identity that differs from their biological sex. Hence gender-affirming treatments. Failing to recognize gender dysphoria would suggest you should step out of biology class and into a psychology class.

r87 Yes, it does. You're unable to rationally discuss the issue because you have a primary agenda and it's not the concern of how the medical establishment nor parents do in the treatment of their children. You show it in your biased language.

All of that matters.

Do you recall focus on the family? Would you say they were unbiased towards LGB in their research and sociopolitical lobbying? Did they truly care about the facts or were they more invested in pushing an agenda?

r87 Likewise, would you like to compare sources for how each of our opinions are informed?

Or since I more convinced of your bias and having an unrelated agenda that only tangentially attaches itself to this one, would you like some Trans organizations which more or less share your views?

It was govt interference which fucked most of this up for trans-medicalists aka truscum in the first place. . . such as making the restroom issue -- a public issue by a sitting president.

really, some of you could better inform yourselves by doing a search of "truscum" and see how the trans community was co-opted.. where the goal posts were moved from attempting to pass and integrate quietly into society vs being trans-identified with the greater push to far reaching identities outside of the medical definition, for what one can only assume as a the next phase of the gender and sexual revolution or simply societal rebellion and social radicalism from kiddies born too late for movements long gone by.

And yes, that again, does maintain relevance to this specific issue...

medical ethics struggles under the weight of society

our values are constantly shifting, if not evolving,

so, the morally right thing to do is not always as black and white

we live in a time of extremes

where we're either for or against with little room for doubt or those that fall somewhere between.

but it's not end sum game, like most controversial issues within our society.

take for instance, Texas's stance on abortion.

"Little is known about the long-term side effects of hormone or puberty blockers in children with gender dysphoria."

"It's also not known whether hormone blockers affect the development of the teenage brain or children's bones. Side effects may also include hot flushes, fatigue and mood alterations."

You know what we call giving drugs we don't know the effects of to children? An experiment. Mengele would blush.

But we do know what puberty blockers does to the brains of sheep.

"Peripubertal GnRHa impaired long-term spatial memory"

"This impairment was not reversed after discontinuing GnRHa-treatment."

"Speed of progression through these spatial tasks was altered after discontinuing GnRHa."

"GnRH irreversibly alters these cognitive functions during critical window of development"

It's up to the functioning adults not to give brain damaging drugs to children who are most likely gay. Children can't consent to puberty blockers that adults can't even tell the effects of without bare-faced lying.

R88 I assume you're the person above looking for more sources, which site is hard given the ideological capture in this area. For a practical example look up the Lisa litterman saga at Brown University, where the university withdraw and censored her legislate research based on the TRA mob (reason eventually embarrassed them enough to reverse course).

Also follow the cass review on the tavistock in the UK. This will have the answers you're looking for. Why do you think Lupron (cancer drugs/ "puberty blocker") is reversals necessarily? You're not supposed to take Lupron for more than six months iirc in it's use as a precocious puberty drug, but it's actually ok to take it long term? Doesn't jive.

I’ve worked in child welfare for 15 years. I’ve worked with hundreds of kids in foster care and I’ve only had a handful of clients who are transgender. A handful. And this is in NY.

How many kids in Texas does this actually impact? The coverage of trans issues is constant but the actual percentage of trans kids has to be extremely small compared to all the kids in the child welfare system in Texas.

Let these families do what they want. Prioritizing them in child abuse investigations? I wonder if Texas is funding the hiring of additional CPS workers and resources for this or just ordering the already over-burdened workers to neglect their caseload and focus on this.

Infuriating we have to hear about this shit constantly when actual issues like the trafficking and abuse of kids in care runs rampant. Guess that isn’t as interesting to deal with and write about because it’s a systematic problem that is incredibly difficult to solve. So instead let’s focus on this small number of parents who let their kids take puberty blockers.

Not directing this at any of you DLers - just so frustrated constantly hearing about this. And suddenly all these celebrities care about protecting trans kids but don’t give a single fuck about all the other kids suffering in the child welfare system.

And as a side note - FWIW - the handful of trans kids I have worked with over the years have been some of the most polite and easy to work with clients I’ve had.

Our twelve year old daughter self identifies as fat even though she’s at a healthy weight for her age and height. Nevertheless, we are going to allow her lap band surgery so her mind matches her body as she wishes. She threatened suicide if we didn’t, so affirming her is really the right thing to do.

For all my issues with the trans movement in its current state, I completely agree with r196.

R96 I think you're on the right track, but how do you account for this:

[Quote]From a baseline of approximately 50 referrals per annum in 2009, there was a steep increase from 2014-15, and at the time of the CQC Inspection of the Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust in October 2020 there were 2,500 children and young people being referred per annum, 4,600 children and young people on the waiting

From the cass interim report list, and a waiting time of over two years to first appointment.30

Abbott held THREE summer legislative sessions and threatened arrest of democrat reps who fled to D.C.

Abbott and Paxton had all that time to get this "much-needed" provision on the table.

And only NOW — since Feb 22 — has this been emergency been prioritized?

If so, identify the complaint/incident.

Point the finger at the criminal-abusive parent -- if even ONE exists.

R96 I don't think anyone is accusing the trans kids of being bad, the argument is whether they're being abused by the adults in their lives under the guise of affirmative care.

Blockers should only be used to treat precocious puberty, not “Mom, I want to be a Disney Princess 24/7.”

[quote] And as a side note - FWIW - the handful of trans kids I have worked with over the years have been some of the most polite and easy to work with clients I’ve had.

There’s no such thing as a trans child.

Stop these evil medical experiments on children.

It is child abuse!

All I know is I have a college friend who is a therapist in New Jersey and most of her clientele are kids between the ages of 12-14 who come in to talk about their anxiety over what their "letters" are, letters being where their place is in the LGBTQIA+. We can't say that things children hear adults talk about in society does not effect them. Remember all the parents upset about the blow job talk because of Clinton and how they weren't happy they were going to have to address this with their kids long before they wanted to?

Pretending that trans discourse out in society and in the media doesn't effect young people is completely dishonest when we know they hear about shootings, presidential blow jobs and everything else going on in the media. Young people know what trans is and it is part of growing up as a human being to at a certain point to become aware of feelings that we don't understand as a part of maturing.

As we all know, no one had to come to us to ask us if we were gay, we figured it out because that is how human beings work. We go through puberty and we question, and we talk with our friends and at some point we might experiment and. . . we figure it out. Now adults are rushing in and asking the questions in some cases beating the kid to the punch. Not every kid questions these things early, some kids start questioning late or not at all. But now too many kids are being pushed into trying to figure out their "letters" at 12 years old when maybe if left alone that question would have even occurred to them for another two or three years if at all.

This cunt has a hard on for chemical and surgical procedures to trans kids . It’s her crusade . I wish we would troll her on Twitter. I think she’s deeply repressed gay .

Try this one . It’s Maureen Maher on Twitter .

Strike two 107/108

Webmaster blocking ?

R106....?

"no one had to come to us to ask us if we were gay, we figured it out"

Are you ignoring that especially since the 1980s, Southern Baptists and their mega-church radio sermons latched onto a twisted, overly sexualized interpretation of Sodom & Gamorrah and never dropped harping on sex-talk with kids since?

That multimedia onslaught wasn't just brewed in the South.

It was all specifically tailored by Texas' First Dallas Baptist Church.

Where, now, that munchkin queen Robert Jeffress (who's an untalented, boring orator, compared to others) sashays on the altar every time Trump comes near Stormy Daniels' Texas home.

Blame Texas' spiritual fundamentalist leaders for engaging in all this sex talk with the kiddies.

[quote] We're talking about unnecessary medical procedures.

You can say that all you want, but whether the procedures are "necessary" is open to interpretation. That's what this is all about. I oppose the tranny-ization of kids but I also oppose this law.

"Trans" kids are the victims of Munchausen syndrome by proxy mothers.

It's sick.

Prosecute these parents.

R112, no it's not open to interpretation.

If the hospitals had been told to stop doing heart surgeries on children they wouldn't have complied. They would have just kept doing it because they know they can prove medical necessity in court.

I will never understand how a monster like Jeanette Jennings is not in jail right now.

Money definitely talks in America.

for all theses Republicans who keep claiming freedom they sure do institute a lot of unnecessary rules and laws and force people to obey them.

My favorite is DeSantis. "We are giving the parents and children the freedom and right not to wear a mask." But God help you if you choose to wear one because he'll yell at you for it and tell you how ridiculous you are.

Is the trans movement going to totally fall apart if they can't "educate" kindergarteners to third graders?

with everything that goes on in this shitty state, THIS is what they investigate? I guess there is no reason to look into why people froze to death last winter as we have boy dressing like girls...oh, the humanity....

There seems to be a lot of daylight between the gay and transgender movements. Not always on the same page.

Transgender softball player furious Gay Softball World Series is in Dallas:

"[North American Gay Amateur Athletic Alliance]'s failure to release even a milquetoast statement shows we [the transgender community] are an afterthought to them,” she wrote. “If the trans community can’t count on them to stand up to bullies in the face of cruelty and intolerance, who can we count on?”

She explained that the “wait and see” approach NAGAAA seems to be employing with the executive order should be abandoned, immediately. When a state government uses its overwhelming power to criminalize gender-affirming care for transgender people, Miller emphasized that patiently waiting on that government to enforce that new standard is not the correct response.

I think that was r62’s point. Making this a priority and comparing it to the horrible abuse that goes on in high numbers is not only unfair it’s dishonest.

Sorry I meant r96.

Yeah, you know a law was enacted in good faith and not at all intended to just harass people when the attorneys desperately defending it in court have to repeatedly openly contradict what the Attorney General insists the law says:

Fighting to keep his job in a heated GOP primary this year, Attorney General Ken Paxton repeatedly insisted that certain medical treatments for transgender youth are abusive and illegal.

But in the relative calm of a court hearing, the state’s lawyers have said something quite different: Gender-affirming care for minors is not abuse in all cases, and the state won’t go after parents just because their trans child is receiving these treatments.

“Despite the frankly breathless media coverage of these important issues, there has been no call to investigate all trans youth or all youth undergoing these gender affirming procedures or therapies. That’s not the case,” Assistant Attorney General Ryan Kercher said in court last week in the first legal test for the state’s policy of investigating certain care for trans minors as abuse.

The conflicting statements are causing confusion among state workers, sowing fear among parents and kids — and raising questions about what the state’s new directive targeting gender-affirming treatments for trans youth means in practice.

While there may be conflicting interpretations, the immediate effects are already on display.

Since Gov. Greg Abbott told state agencies to investigate certain medical care as abuse last month, the state has opened nine investigations based on this directive. The parent of a transgender teenager is suing to block Abbott’s order. And the state’s largest children’s hospital has paused some gender-affirming therapies.

When the Biden administration offered guidance to families with trans children, Paxton sued. He did not parse words in criticizing gender-affirming care, describing it in a tweet as “a new radical form of child abuse.” ...

In February, Paxton issued an opinion that said several methods for treating gender dysphoria in minors, such as puberty blockers and hormone therapies, “can legally constitute child abuse” under the state’s current laws. Gender dysphoria is the feeling of discomfort or distress that can occur in people who identify as a gender that is different from the gender or sex assigned at birth.

Attorney general opinions are nonbinding and no new law was passed to codify his opinion. But Abbott took the guidance and ran with it, sending a strongly worded letter to multiple state agencies directing them to investigate any reports that minors were receiving such treatments.

Abbott warned those required to report child abuse — “including doctors, nurses, and teachers” — could be criminally charged for failing to do so.

A week later, the state of Texas was sued by an unnamed DFPS employee who was put on leave and investigated for having a teenage trans daughter receiving medical care. Paxton’s agency went to court, arguing the public and media had misinterpreted the state’s actions.

Kercher, the assistant attorney general, said Paxton’s opinion intentionally used “couched” language. Gender affirming treatments are not necessarily or per se abusive, he added, but “that these treatments like virtually any other implement, could be used by somebody to harm a child.”

“It’s improper and incorrect” to say the opinion called on every young person undergoing “these kinds of treatments and procedures” to be investigated, he said.

Two days later, however, Paxton seemed to contradict his deputy’s interpretation in a tweet that left no room for such nuance.

“When performed on children, so-called sex-change procedures, puberty blockers, and hormone therapies are ‘abuse’ under Texas law. They’re illegal,” Paxton wrote. “Family courts and family-law government agencies must do their part to stop this.”

They should pay more attention to the pre teen and young teen girls pregnant as a result of rap*e, including incest. The only action they take there is to stop parents obtaining a termination. Forcing a kid to carry a pregnancy to term and deliver is heinous mental and physical child abuse.

Aren't they only investigating like 9 cases? That isn't a lot. Jazz Jennings could be living an entirely different life if CPS had gotten involved.

^My post at R122 should say you know a "policy" was enacted in good faith."

By the way, the asshole behind Abbott's action, Jeffrey Younger, is having his fit despite the fact that his child is NOT allowed to medically transition. The same judge who denied him custody because he's a deadbeat asshole still says no puberty blockers or surgery for the child as a minor without his consent. He still insists his child is being "abused" and that was the impetus behind this law.

So no, this is not just about "unnecessary" medical procedures.

^gah, I keep saying law instead of policy.

"Jeffrey Younger is... a deadbeat asshole..."

He refused to pay for transgender treatment.

That doesn't make him a deadbeat. That makes him a hero.

He refused to pay child support. That makes him a deadbeat. And that's why he lost custody.

But go on, keep defending asshole behavior. That will get people on your side!

He refused to pay the bitch wife anything while she was forcing trans bullshit on the boy.

Don't blame him. The judge should have awarded custody to the father.

Make the wife pay child support.

The courts screw men over.

The judge did award him joint custody. The judge overruled a jury that gave the mother sole custody.

Then the judge got fed up because the father was an asshole who refused to pay support and kept bullying the child about the way the child wanted to dress and wear her hair.

The child was never allowed to have any kind of puberty/hormone blocker or any surgery. The father was bitching about the child wanting to be called a girl because he said it offended him as a Christian. Basically he wanted to do his own home version of conversion therapy. Every other person in the child's life, not just the mom, said the father's behavior was hurting the child.

The fact that anyone still defends him puts a lie to the fraud that this is all about "medical" procedures on children.

Link with procedural history of the case:

[quote]Younger’s family first made headlines in 2019 when a Dallas County judge granted ex-wife Anne Georgulas, a pediatrician from Coppell, joint custody of the twins. Judge Kim Cooks defied a jury’s earlier 11-1 verdict that awarded sole custody to Georgulas, declining to intervene in any parental decision over gender identity. Georgulas admitted during testimony that she may have “over-affirmed” the child’s female identity. Judge Cooks was heavily critical of Younger at the time, stating he “finds comfort in public controversy and attention.” The judge accused Younger of being “motivated by financial gain” after the father raised $139,000 in crowdfunding proceeds. However, Judge Cooks said she set aside the jury’s findings because the state “has no compelling interest to justify such interference” in requiring Younger to “affirm the child and honor the child’s choices.” The case dragged on for two more years until four months ago, when Dallas County District Judge Mary Brown granted most parental rights to Georgulas. She granted supervised visits to Younger and barred the mother from beginning “hormonal suppression therapy, puberty blocks, and/or transgender reassignment surgery” without the father’s consent.

"Every other person in the child's life, not just the mom, said the father's behavior was hurting the child."

The narcissist mother was poisoning the well.

And the bitch was making this poor boy dress up like a girl and be a girl against his will.

There was some twisted shit in that household.

And that mother is no saint.

If someone doesn't believe that "trans kids" exist, why would the non-believer point out that fact?

Unless trans kids are like just "God., whose existence is quite debatable.

But even Satanists don't deny others the privacy to believe whatever they want....

R132 just keeps making shit up because he doesn't know anything about the case. The father admitted the child expressed wanting to be a girl from a very young age. He disagreed with the mother and the child's therapists over what to do about it, and kept bullying the child with homophobic remarks. Just to be a supreme dick, he would forcibly cut his trans child's hair shorter than her twin (not trans) brother's hair.

Oh, and he's a fraud and a grifter too. The judge laid out all his history of lying and financial schemes when granting the mother an annulment. He lied about how many times he'd been married, his education, his career, his military status, and his income. No wonder the wingnuts love him so much, the think he's another Trump.

R112, perhaps you should ask yourself why no other country in the world - except, perhaps for Canada - considers giving children these drugs to be "essential medical care" or that these surgeries are "necessary" on the same scale or at as early an age as in the US. Other countries that were giving adolescents puberty blockers, and at a much, much lower rate and later age, than the US does, are now backing away from this - see Sweden and the UK, for example.

Americans don't seem to comprehend that, even in our trans-crazy era, the US is the only country, perhaps with the exception of their neighbour Canada, that transes children in this almost industrial way.

A boy "expressing" at a very young age that he "wants to be a girl" is just a child being a child, r134. That does not in any way make that boy a girl or mean that once that child gets to an older age he'll still "express" that - if he ever truly did say he wanted to be a girl.

But, yeah, keep bleating on about this one individual because somehow that justifies giving young children irreversible drugs and surgery that will sterilise them and fuck up their body in ways they can't imagine at that age, instead of helping them come to terms with their body and their actual physical gender.

I love everyone has been watching the Olympics and known about sports doping.

But suddenly, the very same hormonal-therapy substance — testosterone — now attributed to trans kids as "puberty blockers," have suddenly aroused orange-alert concern.

R136 you keep lying and obfuscating. Younger's case is telling because this child has not undergone any surgery or hormonal procedure and will not ever as a minor because the father will never consent. This case has nothing to do with "giving young children irreversible drugs and surgery that will sterilise [sic] them and fuck up their body in ways they can't imagine at that age."

Yet this is the case that spurred Abbott to act. Younger is running on a platform of his child being ABUSED. It's not about "unnecessary medical intervention." It's about demanding that boys LOOK AND ACT like boys and girls LOOK AND ACT like girls and nothing else is acceptable.

The mother calls the boy a girl.

Long-term psychological damage is being done to the boy.

Doesn't matter if the father is a dick head or not.

And if the father didn't put his foot down and involve the court, crazy mom would have the boy on tranny drugs.

R137 uh, you realize children are given steroid and hormonal treatment for conditions that have nothing to do with gender identity, right? You realize that doping is dangerous not just because of what is taken but how and usually without proper medical oversight, right?

I have a lot of misgivings about puberty blockers and especially surgical treatment for trans kids, but to think it's just like doping is idiotic.

Nice homophobic rant there, R139. Very persuasive.

Tranny drugs messed up R141's pea brain.

Bet your hair extensions look classy af, though.

R14 No five-year old kid has said that, ever. It's the parents idea.

R140 your testosterone puberty blockers "just like doping is idiotic" argument neither survived yesterday's Texas court hearing, nor did Texas attempt dissuade the argument that testosterone gender-affirming therapy exactly the same as in sports medicine.

Your "idiot" statement failed across the board.

You're not only an "idiot," — which is a voting term — yer a dumbass.

Can someone bring me more nachos please?

What's strange about this 2022 Texas argument on behalf of children is that the FBI long ago already granted that 10 year olds do have degrees of sexual consent....

But that was the FBI who called that.

"Certainly, no 4-year old is capable of consenting, where victims aged 10 or 12 may need to be assessed within the specific circumstances."

I mean, what are police to do when two or more 10 year olds explore their sexuality together....?

Arrest all the kids' parents?

Or just the parents of the trans kids?

There is a good book R71 called Irreversible damage about this very subject and was banned by Amazon for a while but because of pressure, I think it is back. the trans don't want anyone to read this book

R124 Jazz was most likely going to be a gay man. Instead, they sterilized him and now he will never have any sex life at all. Isn't that gay conversion therapy or do all trans want all gay men to be trans? that is what it looks like.

Yup, R148.

But no one talks about their beauty.

It's like seeing the petals of a rose unfold.

It's femininity...perfected.

Amanda Lear is pretty fucking beautiful. Even today she rivals the likes of Raquel Welch

R151 rivals the likes of Raquel Welch? In what way?

Her looks have held up. Amanda's now in her early 80s. Makes red carpet appearances and TV shows and would easily rival the likes of Raquel Welch. Except Amanda is way cooler — friends with Bowie, Dali and appeared on at least 2 Roxy Music album covers.

"Even today she rivals the likes of Raquel Welch"

More like Angie Dickinson.

Amanda had to have surgery this year. Bitch posted this photo from her hospital bed....

R153, no, it's all smoke and mirrors like the link at R156. Look at all the filtering applied. When seen up close the truth is revealed.

When Angela Ponce won Miss Universe all I saw were videos and pictures that looked great. Then I saw this interview. I can see why Angela didn't due too many live interviews in the U.S. Can't even imagine how much more obvious it would be if I actually saw Angela in person. And you s ee why Angela had to wear a high neck blouse in an environment where control over editing is not guaranteed.

Tip to trans women. Don't sit next to women.

Well, this TV 2021 appearance don't have no filters.

Touch this skin, darling.

Touch all of this skin.

You can't handle it. You're nothing but an overgrown orangutang!

It would not even be so bad if all the trannies were just gay men. I am not afraid or wouldn't be afraid of a gay man in a bathroom or other facilities but I don't know when someone is coming through the door if they are a danger to me or not. so as far as I'm concerned they all have to be banned from accessing women's spaces. But I'm completely against gay men playing sports against women.

go piss or take a shit anywhere you want or need to in a public facility.

there is no special accommodation for your shy bladder syndrome.

Compare this video of Angela Ponce on CNN to the one at R157.

Angela looks softer looking, less plastic, the hair more real. The neck looks much better. And being alone in the frame is also imporant. A good camera person/editor can do wonders.

R58, compare the videos of Angela Ponce at R157 and R161. It's all up to the skill of the person behind the camera.

Angela couldn't have worn the outfit that she wore on CNN, R157, to the other show at R161 because the other show didn't do any image touch up.

Angela actually looks younger in the CNN video which was taken 1 year after the other video.

You can also see that Angela looks more comfortable in the CNN video at R157. This makes sense because Angela can see the image that is being projected to the world.

But in the video at R161 Angela looks uncomfortable and stiff. Again, Angelina can see the image being projected in the monitor and can't be that happy about it.

I know a lot of video magic is applied to celebrities in general. But I think it's unfair that a young male might be influenced to transition to female if he is only consuming super touched up videos of trans women.

So many people on this thread are trying to rob kids of their agency and decision-making by saying "they don't know what they're talking about" or "that's just something kids say".

You realize that's the almost the exact same bullshit young gays have to hear right? "It's just a phase" is something LOTS of gays hear when they're kids and early teens because their parents refuse to believe that gays exist.

Why are you trying to rob parents their parental rights?

The only people trying to rob parents of their parental rights are Texas' politicians R166.

Apparently trying to help their kids by consulting with doctors for treatment is now child abuse.

R167, but that isn't child abuse. Only if they give treatments like puberty blockers, hormones and surgeries.

The brains of children aren't developed enough to understand the long-term consequences. Most parents of kids who identify as trans don't allow their children to have such procedures. Only a few parents do.

R168. Even if we assume that kids aren't capable of determining the long-term consequences of these actions, which I don't necessarily agree with, you are still robbing parents of the right to help their kids by stripping away their ability to do what they believe is right for their children in the long-term. This is despite parents have sought out the advice of doctors to come to their conclusions.

How is that not robbing parents of their parental rights?

There are three people involved here: 1.) the children, 2.) the parents, and 3.) the doctors

By supporting this anti-trans nonsense you are essentially saying that 1.) kids shouldn't have a voice in their gender identity because they're kids, 2.) parents don't know what's best for their kids, and 3) doctors are not handing out the right advice.

I disagree with all three of these. Who is anyone on this thread, or anyone in Texas' government, to determine that kids, parents AND DOCTORS are wrong?

R169 I don't agree. There are parents and doctors who wanted gay kids to undergo conversion therapy. With kids being led to believe it could cure them. It was wrong.

I think the trans movement is going to change a lot going forward. The child procedures will ultimately be banned just like they have in other Western countries.

Conversion therapy was never supported by any actual data R170. There's the difference. There's a reason it is mostly peddled by dubious religious organizations now. You'll note, many within Texas as well. The very same people purporting to "save children".

It's methods were behaviorist at best, and unscientific at worst.

Child transitions aren't supported by data either. That's why some Western countries have already banned it. The law is catching up.

[quote]but that isn't child abuse. Only if they give treatments like puberty blockers, hormones and surgeries.

R168, go argue with Jeffrey Younger, who insists his child is being abused despite not being allowed any of those things. Oh, and then go argue with the lawyers defending Abbott in court who told the judge those things aren't abusive even though Abbott said they were.

You're talking about a custody dispute, R173. That's different.

The lawyers in court saying Abbott didn't mean what he said weren't talking about a custody dispute.

Stop dancing around the fact that the homophobes behind this are talking out of both sides of their mouths.

Greg Abbott doesn't give 2 shits about kids. He sure as hell didn't give a fuck when we were freezing without power or water. He's playing up to the right for votes.

Puberty blockers are supported by data R172. They show a significant decrease in gender dysphoria and an increase in the affective and psychological wellbeing of trans youth.

Saying you feel like the opposite sex is just word salad. No one feels like the opposite sex because no one has any idea what the opposite sex feels like any more than what any person feels like.

Abbott supports the Texas abortion law that allows someone who rapes and impregnates a child to sue anyone who helps that child get an abortion after 6 weeks.

But sure, his hysteria about trans children is because he cares so much.

Opposite sex?

Why are the genders "opposed" to one another?

Are the genders at war?

Or are they in love?

Post your links, r177.

Here's mine:

[quote]Close examination of existing studies indicates that use of puberty blockers in transgender young people commonly results in loss of bone mineral density

It's dishonest and irresponsible to state puberty blockers do no harm. We don't have the data to judge that, what little we do have suggests irreversible brain damage. Virtually all the children who go on blockers go on to trans. Because of those blockers and the lack of penile tissue they can't then go under conventional genital surgery, having to resort to wild west experimental surgery like what happened to Jazz. A neovagina that's had to be put back together multiple times.

That child's 'agency' you refer to is the choice to become a medical experiment without their knowledge. To suffer brain damage without their knowledge or capacity to understand. To have the choice between a permanently shrunken penis or a frankengina falling apart at the seems. It's unbelievably cruel. Children can't consent to puberty blockers anymore than they can consent to drive your car and I'm certain you'd scream before letting one of those wise children drive your car, do your taxes or perform open heart surgery on you.

Leave the fucking gay kids alone.

Let's not forget r165 and r182, that the "argument" that children have "agency" is a favourite claim of those who believe that children have "agency" to decide that they "want" to have sex with adults.

[quote] No one feels like the opposite sex because no one has any idea what the opposite sex feels like any more than what any person feels like

I think it’s expressed incorrectly. That’s arrogant of me as I am not trans but I do have a friend that is. I know she feels utterly disconnected from her male body parts and she very much wants to be physically as she fully desires. I have seen her look at pretty girls not with sexual longing, but admiration and even some friendly envy. I have also seen how much happier and even lighter she looks when she is able to dress in the way she feels best. So I do not doubt that trans is real or at least the best solution to whatever the “problem” is that creates the desire.

What I do have issue with is that the most outspoken voices in the trans movement are demanding to be heard and respected for their needs and rights while not affording that same respect to bio women. There is no fucking willingness to at least discuss the issues that some bio have with what some trans women believe is their inherent right.

I am aware that this wasn’t the right thread for my reply but I needed to rant.

Whatever r184, your male friend is still not a woman.

Fair enough. And I don’t think her quality of life should be dependent on everyone accepting her as a woman. All my friend wants is to be treated with the respect everyone (with some exceptions) deserves.

Wow R183. Calling people pedos? As if gays haven't been called that before by the very people supporting this sort of law/investigation.

As for R181. Meta-analysis linked below.

R188, no, R183 is calling that particular line of reason pedophilic. I was thinking the same thing when I read it. People need to drop that argument. It's a bad look.

Fair enough R189. But it doesn't detract from the argument that this sort of investigation seemingly flies in the face of both parental rights and the advice of doctors. It also doesn't help the kids forced to live with gender dysphoria and the associated decline in psychological wellbeing.

It's government overreach by a state that nobody on this board should feel they should be able to trust to have good intentions; either for women, trans people or gays.

A bill is also being put forth in Tennessee:

A Tennessee bill proposes to restrict children’s access to hormone therapy, puberty blockers, and other medical procedures that would allow for an alteration to their gender.

You should have to be an adult. You’re altering the human body and creating long term repercussions. The only ones who don’t support this are the trans mafia, their enablers and the dumb bitch supporters among the uneducated population.

"I started transitioning when I was 16. A child. I had undiagnosed BPD, but no one bothered to screen me. If they did they would have seen that I viewed transition as a way to throw myself away and try again. That I was traumatized by my childhood. That I self harmed. But they didn’t. They said “congrats” and handed me a referral. By the time I realized I was more depressed than ever before, I had already had a mastectomy and two years on testosterone. I was thrust into adulthood broken.

I went through the detransition process, quit T for over 5 years, and here at 27 I sleep 14 hours a day, my hair falls out, and I can’t stop gaining weight. I decided I had had enough and got a full medical work up done.

My lab work revealed I have almost no female hormones. I will never have children. I have PCOS. I have high cholesterol. I have cysts all over my ovaries. My PCP had to submit my results to a specialist because they were so unusually terrible, even for PCOS.

I will be on weekly injections, diabetes medication, and who knows what else for the rest of my life. And at this point I have no idea if I will ever get back to feeling energetic, out of pain, and a little bit normal.

When I signed those papers I was not informed, of any of this. I was a child, allowed to destroy my body permanently, under the assurance that I can always change my mind, and that it’s a beautiful, harmless process. The informed consent model is a lie, because we are just guinea pigs to a medical experiment, my life is permanently afflicted, and I was not informed.

I only wish my experience could mean anything, but all it will ever be is internet harassment and an empty feeling. The medical community can’t listen, and the trans community won’t."

Very painful and troubling. I hope this person gets all the help they need R193.

Assuming it's true of course. Given that that's a Reddit post you can forgive my skepticism.

You're on a thread about children being pumped up with experimental drugs like pharmaceutical pinatas. Why do you think she's lying about her experience r194?

I have read a lot of stories like this. It is not unusual to have all these medical problems after hormones and puberty blockers. It always sterilizes the person and the women usually have to have a hysterectomy

It's disturbing to think that when I was a young tomboy with my bagging cargos, flannel shirts, and interests in "masculine" activities that these lunatics would've insisted I was trans as a kid and probably tried to pressure my mother into getting me "gender-affirming" treatment. I never wanted to be male. And the thought of growing extra body hair makes me seriously ill.

I feel sorry for minors who don't really have a say in their care getting roped into this madness by the adults in their lives who, frankly, should know better.

Why does anyone write these sorts of things R195? Do you genuinely think people on DL are lusting after their sons-in law or that people on r/Antiwork are actually setting walking out on their workplaces?

Stories like that are interesting and valuable, but if you're taking for granted that an anecdotal story like that is true just because it was on the internet then you need to rethink your choices.

The trannies have twisted things around. They say if a person isn't allowed to transition its conversion therapy. But the Tavistock institute in GB said that a lot of parents who suspected that their kid was gay took them to the gender clinics because they would rather change the kid's sex than have a gay kid. Tavistock was starting to be alarmed about all the parents bringing in what Tavistock thought were gay kids. This is one of the reasons GB is starting to rethink things. The % of kids going to gender clinics got bigger and bigger every year. So the transitioning of a gay kid is actually gay conversion therapy.

You can't change a person's sex R199. You can only change a person's body to make them feel closer to their gender identity.

Sex is a biological reality.

I for one would be curious as to who these parents are that think having a trans kid would be "easier" than having a gay kid. Trans people are far more persecuted than gays - just look at DL.

"Homophobia in families is mentioned in all of the transcripts Newsnight has seen."

"We did have a lot of families and parents who would actively tell us 'oh, I'm so glad, at least my child is not gay or lesbian'."

R200 I know sex is immutable and I started to write that very thing. I didn't write it because I thought everyone here knew that. But The parents believe that sex is fluid. You know stupid republicans don't know anything. They're probably religious nuts.

That's very interesting R201. That doctors had concerns about the motivations of parents bringing in their kids for treatment is highly disturbing. I hope that those parents were given gentle explanations that they were the ones who need therapy and help, not the kids.

If doctors are providing medical treatments to children who have not been diagnosed with gender dysphoria then I absolutely agree that should be investigated.

This particular case though? I don't buy that Texas is doing this out of concern for the children and why are parents the ones under fire here? The DOCTORS are the ones breaking ethical and medical practice - if something similar is what is actually happening.

R200, Bullshit. The world bends over backwards to please trans people in ways they never would for gays.

We only got gay marriage 5 years ago. Trans rights are passed quietly and without any debate allowed.

R204. Not sure that's an accurate parallel. Gay marriage is not quite the same as acceptance that trans people exist. Gay sex was decriminalized everywhere in the US in 2003.

But regardless of the law, I don't think public opinion polls agree with you. Data suggests quite a few people now believe that homosexuality is not wrong at all. Transgender acceptance is more divided.

R205

[quote]How would you like it if privacy rights were used to argue for gay conversion therapy for children?

A guy fucking another guy is not the same thing as a doctor giving a kid puberty blockers. Are you fucking stupid?

the big difference between gay rights and trans rights is gay people didn't try to steamroll over women's rights. They didn't ever bother anyone or attack anyone. And they didn't abuse children.

Sweden did an about-face on transitions and said it is experimental treatment and stopped allowing it.

R207 Do you think the people enacting these kind of laws can make that distinction? This is TEXAS.

And I would remind R208 that supporting the same Texas governor who banned abortion makes your point about women's rights extremely hypocritical.

R207 apparently you can't read, I never said I supported Texas. I will say this I am not going to be voting in the mid-terms. I will vote democratic in 2024. If the republicans take it maybe the democrats will change their stupid agenda. They have become out of touch with the people they are supposed to be working for.

R211. Hoping the Republicans take anything in the mid-terms is like the turkey voting for Christmas.

When will gays learn that the Republicans hate us?

R212 I am a straight woman. I am not a progressive I am a liberal democrat. I refuse to live in an echo chamber.

Good for you R213. But it doesn't really matter what you call yourself, Republicans don't like women either. See Texas.

I am not voting for republicans. I am just not voting. I will never actually vote for a republican. I am really sick of progressives. I wish there were more than two parties.

And most of the country is not progressive.

I also wish there were more than two parties R215. You could vote Green?

The green party is worse on this issue than the democrats. The real problem is that a 3rd party cannot win in this country so it is a protest vote at best. The only way to make that viable is to overturn the electoral college. That would take 2/3 of the states I believe to ratify it. The republicans would never vote for that and probably not the democrats either. Both parties would probably go the way of the whigs.

[quote] I wish there were more than two parties.

Have you considered Libertarian? That's how I voted in 2016 because...I for damn sure wasn't voting for either of the blue or red options at the time.

Of course it's a protest vote R218. But it's better than not voting at all. And surely this isn't the single issue determining your vote?

As R219 said, you could vote Libertarian as well.

[quote] The green party is worse on this issue than the democrats

r218 Green parties almost everywhere (not just limited to the West) are insanely far left on too many things unrelated to the green issues and of course, notorious pro-trans cult loons.

I was always under the impression that libertarian was on the right. Isn't Rand Paul a libertarian? If they are anything like him no thanks. I will take a look at all the candidates and I am not firm on not voting. I have voted in every election since I was able to vote in 1968

[quote]And most of the country is not progressive.

"Progressives" aren't "progressive", especially those promoting the reactionary "trans" nonsense.

It's really troubling how many people here are seemingly so blinded by their hatred of trans people that they'd either do nothing, or willingly abet the same people who would see gays, women and every other historically oppressed group stripped of every right we've fought for in the last 200 years.

Trans is not a civil right. Male trannies are about 90% of AGP white middle-class nutbags. The gay trans are a tiny minority in that community. Trannies are a cult. Most of them are narcissists or borderlines or both. Many of them are pedophiles.

A huge amount of young girls are suffering from teenage angst. Girls are notoriously anxiety-ridden over their body issues because there is so much pressure on their looks. By the time a girl starts to develop, they start getting sexually harassed and always getting leered at by men who are adults. They don't know how to handle that. A lot of them are gay and confused. They get on the internet and People start telling them that they are trans and being so young they don't really understand the consequences of their actions.

That's what happened to this young woman r225. A common thread in detransitioning is that there was never informed consent and that drugs were the first option. Children lack the capacity to agree to transition and the many many health hazards that await them. Of course some will call her a liar too, they don't matter.

[quote] Trannies are a cult. Most of them are narcissists or borderlines or both. Many of them are pedophiles.

There needs to be more discussion about the links between p*dos and TRAs. There are many.

[quote]By the time a girl starts to develop, they start getting sexually harassed and always getting leered at by men who are adults. They don't know how to handle that.

Though the sexual harassment and creepy attention from adults are definitely a big part of it, it's also the way the game has changed for women in the past two decades or so. What's expected of women sexually as a matter of course now has changed a lot, thanks to 20 years of on-demand hardcore porn being the primary source of sex ed for guys. The world of sex is fraught enough for young girls, now they're considered 'boring' if they don't want to be choked or have anal sex or threesomes. It's not hard to fathom how a young girl would think opting out of womanhood altogether is somehow less scary, especially with all the affirmation they can receive for doing so.

These arguments are insane. Why are people talking about trans people as pedos? That's ridiculous.

Gays used to be called pedos as well. Many still think that way unfortunately.

The same thing could be said about this stupid sexual harassment argument. People used to say gay men only liked dick because they couldn't get girls.

It’s disgusting that the Democratic Party is all for the transitions )conversion therapy) for gender non conforming obvious gay kids.

R228 There is a lot of talk among the trans community about getting the age of consent laws down to 12. MAPs Minor attracted people (Pedos) a large % of trans work in Tech and are incel types the type that hangs around moms basement at 30 and hangs on 8 chan. They have absolutely nothing in common with gay people.

And years ago the gay community had to throw NAMBLA out because they were infiltrating the gay community.

R225 Trans rights are civil rights.

civ·il rights | ˌsivil ˈrīts | plural noun the rights of citizens to political and social freedom and equality.

Forcing people to call, treat and accept XY males (almost always with intact dick) as (100%) girls/women (essence of gender identity indoctrination) - what they mean/demand with #TransRightsAreHumanRights - is gaslighting leftist fascism (also grooming the underaged), not 'civil rights'

[quote]The same thing could be said about this stupid sexual harassment argument. People used to say gay men only liked dick because they couldn't get girls.

And people always say that black guys commit all the crimes so therefore black guys shouldn't be able to accuse anyone of committing crimes? Because people always accuse them?

Stupid argument. One has nothing to do with the other.

Parents pushing for gender reassignment surgery for children is child abuse.

The right sometimes in very rare instances gets it right. A stopped clock and all that. The democrats used the abortion issue as a wedge issue for years. It was always if you don't vote for us you lose abortion but they could have done a lot to ensure that it didn't get overturned. They preferred to use it to get votes.

R228, I think because this writing by trans professor Allyn Walker represents the views of too much of trans academia:

“I’m Not like That, So Am I Gay?” The Use of Queer-Spectrum Identity Labels Among Minor-Attracted People

Eventually the spotlight is going to shift to detransitioners. It's inevitable. That's how the mainstream media and Democrats will move away from an unpopular position.

Medscape: Doctors Have Failed Them, Say Those With Transgender Regret

TRANSGENDER YOUTHS Seeking a place of acceptance Mom uses GoFundMe in bid to move family after Abbott directive By MARIN WOLF Staff Writer The first time Violet Augustine referred to Isa as a girl, right before her fifth birthday, the mother said she could see the tension melt from her daughter’s body. “She’s much happier, more outgoing, more expressive, just like a normal kid,” Augustine said. “And it kind of breaks my heart … because I didn’t even realize that those first four years of her life she was living with this anxiety for not being affirmed.” Augustine, 37, a Dallas schoolteacher, said she’ll do anything to keep that happy, bubbly and confident version of her daughter around. Even if that means uprooting their lives and moving their family of two to another state. On Feb. 23, she set up a GoFundMe campaign to help her and Isa make a new home in California, following a new directive from Gov. Greg Abbott designating gender-affirming medical care for adolescents as child abuse. She doesn’t know exactly what her plan is, but she said she has to leave now so that her daughter lives in a state with better trans health care options. Augustine said she’s scared that a ban on gender-affirming medical care for adolescents could be detrimental to Isa’s well-being. Isa has made troubling comments to her mom about wanting to mutilate and hurt herself because some of her physical characteristics don’t align with her gender identity. At least three other Texas families are also using the fundraising platform to pay for a move out of state for fear of their children’s safety, GoFundMe officials confirmed. Within days of Abbott’s directive, some families were contacted by Child Protective Services about their transgender child’s medical care, Lambda Legal lawyer Paul Castillo told The Texas Tribune. “When I first read [the directive], I just cried,” Augustine said. “I couldn’t believe that any lawmaker would try to go as far to label a parent as a child abuser. Because, if those people were to come into my home and spend a week with me and my child, or any parent of a trans kid, they would see that we’re doing everything in our power to make sure our children are happy and healthy.” Last week, a Texas judge temporarily blocked the directive in the case of a 16-year-old teenager. But that temporary restraining order, which only applies to the plaintiffs in the case, is on hold as the state appeals to a higher court. Relating to Patrick Star Isa is too young to even consider gender-affirming medical treatments like puberty suppressants or hormone therapy, which can’t be started until a person has begun puberty. Because her mother is an artist, the kindergartner has grown up in a house covered in paintings and prints. Isa decided to add her own drawing with a blue marker on the wall above her bed. Isa said she relates most to Patrick Star, the pink starfish from SpongeBob SquarePants , because both she and Patrick like to make people laugh. She’s developing her unique personality and sense of humor, a process that Augustine said she’s loved watching. Even though Isa is young, conversations about medical treatment are rapidly approaching, Augustine said. She wants to safely access such care when her daughter does start puberty. Gender dysphoria is the feeling of discomfort or distress that can occur in people who identify as a gender that is different from the gender or sex assigned at birth, according to the Mayo Clinic. The discomfort or distress can be physical and emotional, and can cause significant disruptions in daily life for those experiencing it. A trans adolescent should only begin medical gender-affirming interventions after the beginning of puberty, said Dr. Stephen Rosenthal, medical director of the Child & Adolescent Gender Center at the University of California, San Francisco Benioff Children’s Hospitals. That way, they can assess how they feel once their body starts to change.

A description from Texas Tribune about what is happening;

When some of the most powerful Republicans in Texas began targeting the transgender community in 2017, they found the notion — initially — hard to sell.

The conservative grassroots were all for legislation regulating transgender people’s bathroom use, the first hard legislative push by state leadership to limit the rights of that community. But state House leaders didn’t seem to have the stomach for it, and efforts in the Capitol failed.

Enter Jeff Younger.

The North Texas dad was sounding the alarm on social media and his blog about his bitter public custody battle over 7-year-old twins with his estranged wife, a pediatrician. The dispute focused on the social gender transition of one twin, who was assigned male at birth but lived as a girl at the mother’s house.

..........................

His fight became a rallying cry for the hard right. On conservative websites and GOP politicians’ social media, Younger was held up as a victim, a tragic example of allowing the so-called leftist transgender agenda to continue unabated. His child’s birth name became a popular hashtag on Twitter.

........................

Even Gov. Greg Abbott joined in, announcing on Twitter in 2019 that the state would look into the child’s case. Younger’s family became the first in Texas ever investigated by the state for child abuse based on treatment for a transitioning child. His ex-wife reported being threatened and harassed. And LGBTQ advocates denounced what they saw as the exploitation of a young, vulnerable child for political purposes.

But around Younger, the movement grew. The Texas GOP’s anti-trans policy endeavors evolved from angry political rhetoric to a raft of new proposed laws — and, last month, to child welfare investigators showing up at the doors of parents of transgender children on order of the governor.

Younger, who does statistical analysis for banking firms, says his story was the catalyst for a movement that was previously without direction.

“I believe I was the tip of the spear,” the 56-year-old Flower Mound resident said in an interview with The Texas Tribune this week.

And now, as a poster child for the cause, he is within striking distance of an elected seat in the Texas House of Representatives.

..........................

Younger’s custody battle is at the center of his campaign. On a section of his website called “Why I’m Running,” it’s the first sentence: “The State of Texas is trying to transition my son into a girl.”

Good for him. Trans children don't exist. They are gender nonconforing and there is nothing wrong with that. 80 % of dysphoric children grow up to be gay or lesbian. Homophobic parents and doctors know this, which is why they are pushing them to transition. It's gay conversion therapy. They are literally transing the gay away.

Your argument R234 seems to have nothing to do with what I was talking about.

I was drawing parallels between the ridiculous rhetoric anti-trans people here are employing and the same garbage straights used to throw at gays.

R241. Where's the evidence? The article R201 posted was great because it highlighted that this is an issue in some clinics and amongst some parents. But 80% is a big claim and using a couple of clinics with bad directors or clinicians to completely discredit trans as an identity seems overkill.

And, more generally, where's the evidence for detransitioning? What proportion of trans people detransition? Furthermore, what proportion of people who detransition show a significant increase in their quality of life following detransitioning?

Nobody on this thread is actually able to engage critically with the subject matter. They just keep regurgitating the same talking points about transitioning being "abuse" or "conversion therapy".

R242, here's some critical engagement for you: why are the US and Canada the only two countries in the world to transition children at such a high rate? Do you think that countries such as the UK and Sweden, which have examined their child gender services and concluded that transitioning children with gender dysphoria should be done only in very limited cases, if at all, and that children should be given alternative therapy instead, have got it wrong?

Just as a follow up. This meta-analysis suggests less than 1% of people who undergo gender-affirmation surgeries experience regret.

As to R243. I can't comment because I don't know what percentage of children are undergoing gender-affirmation treatment in North America compared to the percentage in the UK. What are the numbers?

I hope you do have figures R243 because I tried to search online and only found this article from 2017. It suggests that the US doesn't collect enough data (at the time of writing) to be even able to tell how many transgender children there are in America.

R244, from what I know of these sorts of studies that claim there is allegedly little post-transition regret, they are based not on all people who were patients at a particular clinic, but those who kept in touch with it, so by default they are individuals who are happy with their treatment. They therefore miss all those who basically cut off contact with the clinic.

Look at the number of patients examined in the studies examined in the article you link to, they are very small, except for the Dutch study by Wiepjes et al, 2018, which looks at over 4000 people. Moreover, the patients there were from 1975 to 2015, which is overwhelmingly from the period before it was so easy to transition and one had to go through lots of psychological assessments and a long procedure to see if transitioning would be right for them. That's very different from today, where in the US at least you can get signed off to transition with almost no assessment. There has been a huge explosion in recent years amongst very young adults transitioning, and it's hard not to see this as a trend of our times due to a whole bunch of different reasons, and not because they were born in the wrong body, which is why we're also seeing so many more detransitioners.

R243, here's an excellent article by a young woman who thought she was trans but has now detransitioned. Yes, it's just one individual but she goes into great detail about the whole mindset that some young people who think they are trans get trapped in. It's highly illuminating.

As for children, what the heck does a child really understand of all these issues? Unless you truly believe that children can be born in the wrong body, you must admit that something else is going on with children who say they want to be the opposite sex - or who an adult has decided that the child wants to be the opposite sex.

[quote]It suggests that the US doesn't collect enough data (at the time of writing) to be even able to tell how many transgender children there are in America.

So, American children are being given life- and body-changing irreversible drugs and surgery, are effectively being sterilised and will never be able to enjoy sexual relations as an adult, are having healthy body parts removed, at an age when they're too young to understand what they're consenting to, and there's no accurate record keeping for these kids? No one knows how many there even are in the US let alone how many come to regret what happened to them?

Yeah sample size for a lot of those studies is small R246 but that's to be expected with a hard to reach population like this. Your point about those who cut off contact with the clinic is fair, but without going through every one of the 72 studies I don't know if we can say that is a significant factor here. Furthermore, such self-selection is common in social surveys like this one.

The Olson-Kennedy et al. (2018) work is very recent and studies adolescents between 14 and 25 years old as recently as 2016. Very low rates of regret.

I understand your critiques but I don't think they undermine the point of these studies which is that there is just no evidence to suggest detransitioning or trans-regret is a widespread phenomenon. Perhaps more recent work will validate your concerns about the suggested easier accessibility to gender-affirming treatment of the last 5 years. But I don't see it.

Of course, cases like in R247 are sad to hear about, but as you point out, they are one person. They don't invalidate the treatment process as a whole or the concept of the trans identity.

R248, it should be emphasised that the people in those studies are adults not children, and children are the issue here.

I posted the blog at r247 not because it's a sad story but because she details very well the phenomenon of rapid onset gender dysphoria, and why many young women in particular are sudden deciding they're trans. It's actually a fascinating read.

[quote]By the time a girl starts to develop, they start getting sexually harassed and always getting leered at by men who are adults.

This right here is what made me want to start dressing like a boy...at 13. This happened to me and it was fucking traumatizing.

However, I didn't go in the direction of wanting to be male because, if anything, that experience made me believe that all males were gross sexual predators and I wanted absolutely nothing to do with them, let alone be one of them. I still present masculine to this day out of comfort for the style choice and thankfully don't feel that way about men anymore, but I'm not going to lie, from roughly age 13ish - 20ish I hated men with a passion. To think I could've been groomed into changing into a male and that many young girls are likely "rebelling" against femininity because of being preyed upon by toxic men makes my blood boil.

It's the exact opposite of what they need. Instead of "affirming their male gender" maybe dig deeper and try to figure out why they want to escape femaleness. I guarantee you'll find "toxic males" as the root cause for the dysfunction in the bulk of these cases.

^ *toxic male behavior

R249. The Amsterdam study (Wiepjes et al, 2018) included adolescents between 12 and 18 (812) and children below the age of 12 (548). The Olson-Kennedy et al, 2018 study used eligible youth aged 13-25 (so a fair few teens).

I just don't see the evidence R249 and R250. Maybe there needs to be some qualitative analysis using focus groups from trans individuals. Perhaps people cross-dress to evade sexual harassment. I've heard stories from WW2 about people dressing girls as boys to try and prevent rape. But, I currently don't see a plausible explanation for why women or men would physically change their bodies to avoid sexual harassment in the modern day.

R250 I think you’re onto something. I’d like to add that after transition some of these girls, attempting to escape toxic maleness, fall right into another pit of toxic maleness -FTM porn. They become the prey and active participants in their own fetishization and sexploitation. It’s disgusting.

R252, I don't have time to read the full study right now, but those children in the Netherlands would not have had hormones or surgery, or only a very few might have had hormones. Most would only have been in puberty blockers and they also have far more rigorous psychological assessments than in the US.

You are correct R254. For the Amsterdam study, the children under 12 were on puberty suppressors. Many of the youth aged between 12-18 were on hormonal therapy or underwent a gonadectomy.

From what I understand, r255, children under 16 are not put on puberty blockers in the Netherlands or given surgery.

Even in the Netherlands, which "pioneered" the use of puberty blockers and transitioning as a way of "treating" dysphoric youth they are starting to take a few steps back, given the huge explosion in the numbers of youth who are identifying as trans or gender dysphoric.

Makes sense R256. Looking at the paper more closely it does say HT was only given to those at least 16 years old. Surgery was given to those who had been on hormones for 1.5 years and were at least 18 years old.

Around 41% of adolescents between ages 12-18 started puberty blockers according to the paper.

Court ruling:

Court refuses to order Arizona to pay for transgender teen’s surgery

A federal appeals court has refused to order Arizona’s Medicaid program to pay for the sex reassignment surgery of a transgender teen who claimed the state’s failure to do so amounted to sex discrimination.

The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruling upheld a lower court that said the 15-year-old had not shown that male chest reconstruction surgery was “medically necessary,” and noting that the Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System does pay for gender dysphoria counseling and hormone therapy.

But the appeals court did not rule on whether the AHCCCS policy violates the civil rights of the teen, identified as John Doe, giving advocates hope that the district court will uphold Doe’s constitutional right to federal health care when the case returns to the lower court.

“There’s a large, significant body of research that demonstrates that transgender youth who received gender-affirming health care … have shown decreased anxiety, depression, suicidal behavior and psychological distress,” said D. Ojeda, a senior national organizer for the National Center for Transgender Equity.

Ojeda called it a “slap in the face” for the court to say the procedure is not medically necessary, saying opponents continue “to harp on science when they’re not even looking at the science.”

But Vernadette Broyles, an attorney for the Child and Parental Rights Campaign, which filed a friend of the court brief in support of AHCCCS, said it is important to consider the effects of gender-affirming treatments on kids who are still developing.

Louisiana lawmaker proposes ban on transgender procedures for minors

Virginia bill to protect public workers’ free speech heads to governor

The bill would ensure that public sector workers do not lose their right to free speech when commenting on current or proposed policies by public institutions during a public hearing. This would apply even if they are speaking against a policy proposal in their workplace. The law is meant to protect the workers’ “freedoms of conscience and expression.”

Questions surrounding the constitutionality of punishing a public worker for speaking against proposed policies during a public hearing erupted last year when a Loudoun County gym teacher was suspended from his job after he criticized a proposed transgender policy that was ultimately adopted.

Stop the trans insanity.

Stop butchering children.

This is sick.

They need to stop experimenting on people. We have been here before. There were the thalidomide babies and let's not forget about many botched lobotomies.

The thing that is weird about the 15-year-old wanting a mastectomy at R258 is that trans activists always say that no one under 18 is getting surgery.

Actually doesn't it sound like the 15-year-old at R258 already had surgery but what they are denying is chest reconstruction?

It's confusing because they always try to avoid using the word "mastectomy".

No, she wanted a mastectomy.

The sanitized, euphemistic language is really annoying. "Top surgery", "bottom surgery" - the latest term I've heard is "bottom growth", which is what FTMs call the engorgement of their clitorises from all the testosterone. Apparently it's really painful for them, but I guess it's part and parcel to their running away from womanhood.

I really can't make up my mind about it.

In some cases I'm sure there are kids who will always prefer to be whatever gender. In some it could be a stage.

No small kid wants to be the opposite sex, they don't even know what it means. They also want to be a princess or a cartoon character or a dinosaur or a unicorn. Kids play-act. They are not tuned in to gender identity.

Cute eggo waffles commercial featuring a 4 year old who wants to be a dinosaur.

R269 she is cute. All kids are cute at that age. they have big imaginations.

I just don't know if that's true R268. I've never experienced it myself but I can imagine feeling that the body I was in, even as a small kid, was wrong.

It seems cruel to pretend it's a phase. Maybe in some cases it is. But maybe in some cases it isn't.

[quote]It also doesn't help the kids forced to live with gender dysphoria and the associated decline in psychological wellbeing.

Psychological wellbeing needs to be addressed by counselling first. It's not right to allow extreme medication and surgeries be first line treatment of psychological, mental or teenage image-related issues when we talk of kids and adolescents. Trans ideologues scapegoat counselling and psychologists almost on par with Scientologists.

I read somewhere about parents who treated their dysphoric kid by eliminating social media influence. I think it was them spending a couple of months in a remote location without internet access, and their kid no longer felt 'trans'. It was an anecdotal account but very interesting.

R271, most of these kids who allegedly insist that they're really the opposite sex don't even know what that means. Also, some of the parents (usually the mother) who claim that their children are insisting that they're the opposite sex are obviously imposing their own meanings or even words onto the child (unless you truly believe that there are three year olds who can even conceive let alone say "I want to cut my penis off", which even then doesn't mean they are really a girl). One interesting observation is that when little kids allegedly say they want to be the opposite sex or are really the opposite sex is that the presence of a sibling seems significant. I've noticed some twins who are kept extremely close where one claims to want to be the opposite sex. One three-year-old boy apparently started wondering why he had a penis when his new baby sister came home and he saw she didn't have one. The parents (mother) decided he was trying to tell them that he trans and really a girl and wanted to get his penis removed.

When I was a very little girl, some decades ago, I wanted to know what it was like when boys peed, so I would stand over the toilet with a used toilet roll as a tube/boy's bits for my wee to run through. I didn't in any way want to be a boy though (even though I was a typical tomboy and uninterested in girly things). If I was six years old today and trying to pee through the used toilet roll, my parents would wonder what's wrong with me, why I'm not like the other girls and more like the boys, maybe I'm trans and so they should take me to the doctor.

[quote]It seems cruel to pretend it's a phase. Maybe in some cases it is. But maybe in some cases it isn't.

I think the answer to that isn't to allow, and even push for, indiscriminate medical intervention on the extreme scale such as puberty blockers, hormones and surgery for children and teenagers.

When you become adult, do as you wish.

Are people trying to transition three year olds R273? Seems a bit ridiculous.

I think 12 years old is a decent age to begin seriously talking about gender identity. Younger in some cases depending on when puberty hits.

I think puberty blockers are pretty important R274. Puberty can be pretty tough even when the changes happening to your body are consistent with your gender identity. I can't imagine how much worse it is when what's happening to your body feels wrong.

The data seems to suggest similarly. Hormones and surgery probably should be restricted to 16-18 year olds.

Puberty blockers have very restricted legit use, R276. They aren't a cure for "your body feels wrong" which can be said by half the teenage girls if not more. Are you going to put them all on puberty blockers and claim they're trans?

R267 In other videos, the wife of the father (who recently came out as non-binary) seems like she’s being dragged along into revealing her trans kids life on YouTube.

It’s not their story to tell.

I'm sure fat kids and teens identify as 'thin' and hate their bodies. I'm sure the stats will tell us they have a higher incidence of depression and suicidal thoughts, and of bullying. Do we send them all to get gastric bypasses and lipo at 8, 10, or 14?

Or do we rather send them to get tests done for diabetes or other underlying physiological conditions, to counselling and nutritionists for help with healthy eating habits and managing depression, and to the gym to get the pounds off?

I wish all the fat shame acceptance would be as strong for loving your self in your body.

You can be a masculine or feminine you in the body you were born in. I don't like how as much as people are non-binary they reinforce stereotypes about gender.

You ought to be allowed to be whatever you are without fitting a stereotype or changing to seem 'normal.'

Yes r275, very young children at the age of 3 r 4 are being socially transitioned. What also often tends to happen is that once a child is a little older the parents (usually a mother with Munchausen's) looks back and claims to be able to identify all these signs when their child was trying to tell them that it was trans from as early as possible.

Trans activists are in fact trying to push the notion, which they claim is backed by science, that a child already knows its "innate" gender identity by the age of 3 or 4.

A father of a trans kid asked a man who cross dresses to stop because it is harming trans kids and the father cited the recent Texas law as an example.

Isn't that restricting someone else's choices?

Parent of transgender child confronts Scott Galloway at SXSW about his cross-dressing

Scott Galloway is hanging up his wigs and putting away his fake eyelashes. The provocative author, podcaster, and NYU professor of marketing said he would stop appearing in drag after he was confronted by the father of a transgender child during the Q&A session following his “Provocative Predictions” keynote speech at the SXSW conference in Austin on March 11.

“I’m wondering, as a father of a transgender child, if you would consider retiring your crass . . . transphobic presentations?” asked attendee Christopher Haines, according to audio from the event obtained by Fast Company.

Haines said that Galloway’s performances put his child at risk, explaining that they rely on stereotypes and provide justification for the bullying of trans and gender nonconforming kids.

“You have a voice and an impact, and I’m telling you, I appreciate your thoughtful and intelligent perspective on everything,” Haines continued. “But when I see that, I think about my child being bullied. And I would ask you, will you please consider how that affects all of our kids. Especially in Texas now where they’re trying to make it illegal to provide healthcare to [our children],” he concluded, referring to Governor Greg Abbott’s recent declaration that providing gender-affirming medical care to transgender youths constitutes child abuse under Texas law.

It all seems very inherently sexist.

Because it is, r283. I'm not allowed to just be a masculine-presenting female (which is, honestly just an unnecessarily complicated way of saying I wear men's clothes because I generally like the style preference. No. I have to confirm my actual gender identity and preferred pronouns to people, now.

What's ironic about this is that I grew up in the 90s, and am old enough to remember when the style for women's wear was baggy cargos, jeans and flannel. They literally sold female clothing with this style. One of my favorite stores growing up was Aeropostale. Hot Topic and Spencer's were two of my other favorites. I remember very clearly my mother buying me baggy clothes from each, and they were all from the GIRLS SECTION. Hardcore Christian conservative family members would be buying me clothes with that style because they knew I liked the style and because it was in the girl's section they didn't see it as "deviant."

They still don't see it as "deviant" to this day because they're just so damn used to seeing me dress this way, they're not even paying attention to the fact that I'm actually shopping in the men's section. I'd be more than happy to shop in the women's section again when designers start making clothes for women in my preferred style. And, FFS, would it kill them to give us some fucking POCKETS and layered fabric? Until then...I'm sticking with my "90s style" a la Aaliyah.

Is it just me or does there seem to be a number of TERFs on what is supposed to be a gay gossip site?

This lawyer gives an analysis of the law.

He and his friend who is also a lawyer with a YouTube channel also covered the Florida law. They had very different views.

I'm glad that someone is trying to refocus this thread on the actual law R286. I find it amusing that Paxton and his lawyers are talking out of both sides of their mouth about this in and out of court.

This is all just because Abbott and Paxton are desperate to keep their job against the next right-wing nutjobs eager to take it. Whilst the Right chase every greater ideological purity you can bet all sorts of rights for the marginalized, including gays and women, will be under threat.

R287, I'm glad you agree that the lawyer at R286 is providing a useful service by focusing on the law. Abbott and Paxton may be idiots but as the lawyer points out there are serious questions about trans medical procedures being performed on minors that need to be asked.

Well, for one, it's a politician's job to be reactionary and sensationalist to invoke a visceral emotional response in their constituents for votes. We see this on both the right and the left with this issue.

It's a lawyer's job to actually focus on facts and evidence. This requires a degree of impartiality that isn't valued in the realm of politics.

Bottom line, just read laws and proposals directly and try to examine them through a more objective lens.

I just got an email from Planned Parenthood begging for money for this. As if a right to an abortion is the same thing as medicalizing or surgically transing children is the same thing.

This is a new and very lucrative revenue stream for PP and they have lost their way. Now it seems young girls especially need to be protected FROM THEM. I never thought I'd say that. Very disheartening.

Leave the kids alone.

Testosterone has a very harsh affect on the female reproductive system and overall body. I shudder to think about what giving a developing young girl testosterone will do to her reproductive system considering over-production of testosterone is the leading cause of Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome which can, in turn, lead to endometrial cancer, Type 2 diabetes, cardiovascular disease over time.

The most common treatment for PCOS is hormonal birth control; which gives female hormones. I don't understand how the medical community can justify even entertaining the idea of approving this mess for minors.

A case study...

R290, let them know what you think.

The lawyer at R286 makes a good point that there is a parallel between Covid regulations and child trans procedures

He said the government has more power in the face of medical uncertainty. The government used its power to ramp up the fight against COVID and to override individual liberty which was legal. He says it sounds right to him that this same line of reason applies to trans child procedures. Especially for sterilization procedures that have a long, ugly history. Also, the government has more authority over children because they are more vulnerable than adults.

For trans procedures, the medical uncertainly includes the lack of data, the fact that dysphoria usually resolves on its own, the high suicide rate post transition and unclear long-term impacts. In these situations, it is his analysis that the power of the state grows to regulate the practice of medicine.

I bet you the Governor of Texas doesn't mind when children shoot guns.

So if you support COVID regulations, you should also support the banning of trans procedures on children.

Will they also sue parents and clerics for circumcising healthy babies - rhetorical question.

R296 circumcision doesn't cause sterilization.

If I remember correctly, the lawyer says that under the 14th Amendment children have a constitutional right to procreate.

R293 exactly. Weird I never hear people defend opiates. They agreed with the government on limiting prescriptions because it caused too much harm -- and that wasn't due to minors being targeted, as with Lupron, but adults taking them.

Anyone interested in the side effects of "puberty blockers" needs to look up the studies of what it did to kids by looking up it's use for precocious puberty. If you look it up for anything trans related, you won't find a bad thing about it, but weird every study in it's use for other conditions makes it clear it's a dangerous drug.

There were some quacks that tried using it to treat autism and they were shut down by the media. What a difference in attitude when it wasn't being used for gender treatments.... that was in 2009, only a few years before it became known as "puberty blockers" that are totally "safe" for kids....

What a difference when it's not attached to gender. Early users have been trying to get the FDA to address the issues for over 20 yrs, to know avail. This drug isn't even recommended for adults for more than a few months. It's used for prostate cancer, IVF, precocious puberty, was pushed to treat autism, and now gender transition.

Some reports include a higher rate of suicides, psychosis, bone loss, interference with brain development (one small study noted a permanent drop in IQ), gut issues, etc.

The issue with interference in puberty is that puberty includes more than growing sex characteristics. It's an important phase of development within the whole body, including brain development. It's foolish to support interrupting a process that can not be restarted. Once missed, that's it. Just like development for young toddlers, where if you miss out on a certain process, like learning language, it could be detrimental for life.

Because autism has very little to do with puberty R299. Maybe that's the difference.

Do puberty blockers sterilize people R297?

R301 I do not know if blockers sterilize children. If it is started at age 11, and a child decides to desist at 16 I would have to think there is some permanent impact on their genitals if not sterility.

The lawyer at R286 said it hasn't been demonstrated that a halted puberty can always be restarted. So if I understand what he is saying, it is that the government is empowered to regulate medicine when uncertainty exists and this is especially true when children are involved. It's why the government had the power to impose COVID regulations. . The lawyer did mention other impacts of the blockers such as the impact on brain development. Again, all of the side effects of blockers make up the "medical uncertainty" situation.

The point about the sterilization is that it seems to be a main focus of the bill. So I'm guessing that the trans child cases they are focusing on have sterilization involved.

The government was empowered to protect Americans from the medical uncertainty of COVID.

The government also likely has the power to protect children from the medical uncertainty of trans medical procedures.

I bet their parents let them get behind the wheel at age 13 too.

Don't forget heteros know best.

Puberty Blockers do cause sterility. Cancer patients are only supposed to be on them for a few months and Lupron is used to castrate child molesters.

R303, a clinic in Texas allowed girls 12 and up to get mastectomies until the Texas bill passed.

The trans cult is fundamentally homophobic, r303.

Which clinic was that r305?

The problem here is that the Texas governor is an assshole and doing this because he's a bigot BUT there needs to be more oversight over treatments for trans identifying children and teens and #stunning and #brave and affirmation only isn't it. And by attacking and canceling everyone who isn't on board with hormones and surgery as the first methode Trans activists are doing themselves a disservice by pushing those voices into the right wing .

Dr. Sidhbh Gallagher, an Irish-born Miami doctor supposedly has performed mastectomies on 13-year olds. The doc makes TikTok videos aimed at minors.

From her website:

Minors and Top Surgery We are happy to offer top surgery to minors with consent of parents and the recommendation of the patient’s mental health professional.

When we evaluate each patient, we keep in mind the risk benefit analysis and understand that it may well be much more detrimental to the patient to wait until the age of 18 for surgery. Each case is evaluated with patient and family.

Haven't people kept saying that minors don't have trans surgeries?

May 2018 Chest Reconstruction and Chest Dysphoria in Transmasculine Minors and Young Adults Comparisons of Nonsurgical and Postsurgical Cohorts Johanna Olson-Kennedy, MD1,2; Jonathan Warus, MD1; Vivian Okonta, MPH1; et al

Results Descriptive Characteristics At the time of survey, the mean (SD) age of postsurgical participants was 19 (2.5) years (range, 14-25 years). The length of time between survey and chest surgery varied from less than 1 year to 5 years (Table 2). The mean (SD) age at chest surgery in this cohort was 17.5 (2.4) years (range, 13-24 years), with 33 (49%) being younger than 18 years. Of the 33 postsurgical participants younger than 18 years at surgery, 16 (48%) were 15 years or younger (Figure). At the time of survey, the mean (SD) age of participants without surgery was 17 (2.5) years (range, 13-23 years), with 39 (57%) being younger than 18 years.

R307 the name of the clinic wasn't given.

Sydney Watson, a conservative I think, said her friend told her there was a clinic in Texas that performs mastectomies on girls 12 and up. Sydney asked Arielle Scarcella to call the clinic and pretend she was a mother who was upset about how the new law would affect her trans kid. Arielle recorded the call. The woman who answered the phone said they had to cancel all surgeries for those under 18 but that they used to do surgery on 12 and up.

I guess they didn't put the age limit on their website but it seems other clinics do advertise they do surgery on minors like the doctor at R309. Maybe because it is Texas they didn't advertise it.

[quote] Dr. Sidhbh Gallagher, an Irish-born Miami doctor supposedly has performed mastectomies on 13-year olds. The doc makes TikTok videos aimed at minors.

The brilliant Exulansic was exposing these medical people on her Youtube channel until they ganged up on her and got her account terminated. She is now on Odyssey. She was able to upload most of her videos it seems. But they aren't in exact order. She had gained subscribers quickly at Youtube and, of course, by kicking her off her vital voice has been effectively silenced. De-platforming reality at its most basic.

Exulansic thought she was trans in college and she says she sought regular talk therapy (whatever it's called) and she realized she was not trans but that it was like a cult/religion and it spurred her to expose it for what she sees it as. I don't know if she is trying to get her Youtube channel back. It has brilliant videos exposing child groomers and the medical horrors trans undergo - especially young people.

This is Sydney Watson's video:

The GHOULS performing trans surgeries on 12 year old girls

I learned that there are healthcare professionals who feel challenged when having to get insurance companies to cover trans medical procedures for minors when the kid does NOT have gender dysphoria. It's hard to keep up with the new trends in child trans procedures.

Exulansic's (excellent) YouTube channel was probably pulled because she made less-than-flattering commentary videos on "I am Jazz" episodes, which was the only way to digest that terrible show. She brilliantly outlined how Jazz is getting bullied and put down by the other family members at every turn.

Look at how any thread that is made about the show, it gets nuked VERY quickly. TLC and the Jennings are clearly wielding their power.

This guy does a lot of "I Am Jazz" videos.

R314, very well could be that. But she has been going after Jazz for quite a while and it doesn't take that long to get a youtube channel thrown off. It wasn't until she started going after the doctors that she got yanked. But you could be right.

Nightmare Neil at R315 is hilarious. He seems odd at first be he always makes a lot of sense. I think he writes out his narration and reads it - good for him for preparing so diligently. So many just talk off the top of their head.

The denial that very young teens and under are being medicalized and surgically transitioned is another lie by the Trans community. Considering that the self-resolution rate for gender questioning youth is so high - upwards of 98% - that doing anything to children is appalling and you have to ask yourself why in the world would this be approved and even welcomed by anyone.

I was hesitant to believe that the Pedos - long ago banned from the gay rights movement - had re-emerged like locusts under the Trans flag. I thought it was just scare tactics or something. But the more I am informed of who is involved (the old NAMBLA and PIE advocates) and what they are advocating for (inter alia, lowering the age of consent and MAP advocacy), I realize it is a very real issue and a danger to children.

[quote]Which clinic was that [R305]?

Probably the one talked about in this video, r307...

Damn. I JUST realized this was posted at r313. Oh well, here it is again, lol.

Trans Euphoria, Detrans Regret.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

R320, that is horrible. People think this isn't happening, but it is. Everyone who facilitated this, especially the deception in hiding this from the mother should be held accountable in some way. Note how they connived to get her away from her mom's custody - to break that parental bond - and then filled her head with this nonsense.

Jesus Christ r320...

[quote]In a statement to DailyMail.com, LA County agreed that they 'aggressively pursued the implementation of inclusive, gender-affirming laws, policies and supportive services for LGBTQ+ youth,' but partially laid the blame for Andrew's death on 'higher rates of suicide' among queer young people.

In other words, "[bold]those[/bold] people kill themselves all of the time, so when we manipulate them at their most vulnerable, it's not our fault if they eventually off themselves." Imagine hiding behind the high suicide rate of at-risk youth while actively exacerbating the many factors that lead to suicide for at-risk youth.

Throw the whole county away.